>the surgery was gross but trannies are gross so i guess the shoe fits
in the commentary they were like "we originally wanted the whole first ten minutes to be just surgical footage"
A lot of media had done sloppy work with gender in the past. But this episode was purposeful anti-transgender propaganda a decade before the Republicans and Tories made it their number 1 wedge issue.
i used to watch South Park and think "lol so edgy" but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
>before the Republicans and Tories made it their number 1 wedge issue
You mean when trans people crossed a bunch of social boundaries and attempted to use the law as well as the public court to destroy anyone in their way and naturally a resistance to this formed?
>i used to watch South Park and think "lol so edgy" but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
Yes we must outlaw jokes and criticism, lives are at stake. have a nice day.
>but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
If being lightly mocked by the most safe-edgy show on TV for the last 20 years is enough to make you consider suicide, you're already too mentally unstable for your own good and should seek psychiatric help.
It is kinda insane how so much of the trans argument essentially boils down to "do whatever we want or we will kill ourselves, you don't want our blood on your hands, do you?"
>but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
Why would showing the realities of the surgery get people to kill themselves? Like seems like they were just going to show it.
It funny how trannies keep saying they aren’t mentally ill or unstable. Yet they immediately start considering suicide the second someone mocks them. For fricks sake SP has been doing this shit for 26 years and has made fun of almost every group out there.
>"Would you rather have a dead son or an alive daughter?"
It's the chant of the groomer, always insisting that every child who acts the slightest bit out of line with extremely exaggerated gender roles must be severely distraught and on the verge of killing themselves in the most gruesome ways possible if you don't let them destroy their bodies with puberty blockers ASAP
So the basic concept of Trans ideology is that Gender represents how you identify in terms of roles provided to the sexual binary. You essentially argue that your sexual indentity is based on perceptions of what qualifies as masculine and feminine and want to act on the qualities that make you most comfortable.
This is in contrast to your biological sex which is determined by your sex chromosomes, produced gametes, and genitalia. Essentially whether your are male or female as these are biological labels based on observable data.
So if that is the case why exactly do Trans individuals demand that they be referred to by biological identifiers? Why aren't trans individuals simply referred to as Masculine Females and Feminine Males? By arguing that someone should refer to you by a biological identifyer it is essentially arguing that gender and biological sex are one and the same or at the very least connected.
If this is the case how can trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are seperate concepts?
i genuinely think transgenderism has stamped out any discussion like this, so i'm not sure they'll give you a real answer. just like asking >"what does it mean to feel like a woman"
will garner no absolute definitions of anything. it's simply a social contagion
Yeah my question is always >How do you know what a woman feels like if you were born male and how do you know that isn't something men feel
And boy oh boy, did I get attacked and torn to pieces to the point where I'm done engaging with that community entirely.
I've always felt this way and I think it's one of the reasons the T is falling apart right now. They don't make any sense and I don't think even they know.
T also represents identity. LGB is sexuality. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
It blows because I'm a flaming homosexual and I have to deal with these people all the time. The weirdest is when I get called part of the T community but the trans woman (biological male) is straight, which makes him (now her) gay. So you're... LGB... And also straight...
and the answers you get are (unsurprisingly) horribly stereotypical of women. these men really do see womanhood as a costume.
i really do see it as a mental disorder where one's body just will never "fit". a lot of people report having surgeries done and it just never feels like it's enough, it's not any different from compulsive plastic surgery.
am homosexual and cannot stand any of these people
>I'm a flaming homosexual
I am curious and I dont know any gay people. Is there a reason why male gay culture and, consequently, the gay male archetype is so affected/"feminine"? What I mean is that the stereotypical gay man behaves in the stereotypical way an annoying woman does; with exaggerated mannerisms, a sort of valley accent and with constant excitement over minute things. This is not the way a typical woman behaves and nothing in the definition of gay man implies that he should behave this way, its just a male attracted to other males. Even historical homosexuality like the greeks did not have this characterization. So, I just wanted to ask the reason for this stereotype.
because the most flamboyant people are the most prominent when it comes to a counter-culture movement. in turn, you probably have gay men acting more effeminate to align more with their cultural identity. being repressed until adulthood probably builds some emotional immaturity in people, and so you see more childish mannerisms manifest as a culture once those people reach some solace
I'm a straight guy giving my own two cents but I'd reckon part of it has to do with how homosexuality was stigmatised for so long. It's probably the case where men who are already a bit feminine have a higher chance of being attracted to men. But Since it couldn't be out in the open as a "normal" thing, it essentially evolved its own culture. Their own way of speaking, dressing, all things to signify their gayness to other gay men and in their insular groups these things would just build up and form "gay culture". And then when "pride" culture started being more apparent, with gay people slowly being more accepted, the mannerisms they had built up where then shown to the rest of the world, who then associate that with gayness, and then further spreads that understanding of gay culture. Both how straight people see gay people, and how gay people discovering their identity think they themselves should also act since it's their apparent culture.
I'm a flaming gay because all of my best friends are women and we all act the same way around each other and our cultural connection was literally watching Mean Girls once a month in high school.
I legit feel bad for you regular gays. Like you guys did all the legwork in getting recognized for rights and shit, and a bucnh of weirdos come in and coopt your movement and make it all about them to the point where if you disagree with them, you've somehow disqualified yourself from the group. Its like if during the civil rights movement a bunch of weird ass white people claiming to be transracially black entered the civil rights discourse and anyone who disagreed with them would be lumped in with the actual racist
I think it's why the discourse in the community with non-binary people happened. If you take the stance that gender is social than you can't really take the stance that you just feel like the wrong gender in some biological way. I think it was a similar issue between those with and without gender dysphoria.
It's kinda like asking why even need to change your body at all? Under the ideas of societal perception your biological body shouldn't be a major issue unless you assume that genitalia is inherently linked to gender. Which many don't go through that surgery so clearly it isn't. Basically why would they call it gender dysphoria when they aren't comfortable with their sex.
Dysphoria also means being physically mentally and emotionally distraught and uncomfortable with your body, especially genetalia. Cis people just dont understand.
What you don't understand is that even though what you say is true, that STILL doesn't make you a woman. That is a problem and needs therapy, but in modern times that is impossible
Sadly, trans people are condemned, they should never have listened to people like you. They need help but It's over.
Try practicing semen retention for 90 days and see what happens with your dysphoria. I guarantee your thirst for wieners is because you keep emptying yourself constantly.
I had body dysphoria over back acne.
I was so uncomfortable and unhappy in my own body I couldn't post pictures of myself, even my face, though it wa sonly on my back. I also was very insecure and self-conscious and I wouldn't even go into the bathroom by myself with the lights on if I had to take my shirt off. the idea of seeing my back literally traumatized me.
The people who post on these threads and post about gender and genitalia etc and post selfies and talk about transitioning don't strike me as dysphoric in any way shape or form, they come off like trendy hipsters who love talking about themselves and following a new thing with friends and a group to join. they don't seem traumatized or actually mentally 'ill' beyond just having an obsession with something and labeling genders and maybe some autism.
It's kind of horrifying that dysphoria has been twisted in this way by this group because body dysphoria is fricking truly horrifying. It took me 5 years plus support groups, who were all variously traumatized by features of their bodies, to come to terms with my skin.
I can't imagine if it was just a group posting selfies and pics and taking hormones and being told back acne is normal and the way I felt was normal I was just in the wrong skin or something.
>they come off like trendy hipsters who love talking about themselves and following a new thing with friends and a group to join. they don't seem traumatized or actually mentally 'ill' beyond just having an obsession with something and labeling genders and maybe some autism
It's a sampling based off of (what I assume are) trends, unfortunately. In the same way white college girls who label themselves bi on their profiles are not a fair representation of gays, these are not a fair representation of tr ansgenders
fake-bi college girls aren't passing legislation that eliminates female spaces and sex-based protections.
i've never heard a description of transgenderism that wasn't sexist or homophobic
7 months ago
Anonymous
>legislation that eliminates female spaces and sex-based protections
sauce me up fampai
7 months ago
Anonymous
In the US at least, it's actually the executive branch's interpretation title 9, although the lawsuits are still in the very early phases.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Unless I'm missing something, the current arguments just revolves specifically around trannies using the restrooms that match their identified gender. Regardless of how you feel on that, likening it to elimination of female spaces and sex-based protections seems hyperbolic
7 months ago
Anonymous
you are missing plenty. restrooms are the visible issue that everybody starts with but there's also scholarships, sports, hospitals, and prisons. none of those are sex-segregated anymore because if a man stomps his foot hard enough he'll get in. not to mention men claiming "first woman to do X" in political and entertainment industries
No clue man. Im just a dumb autist but id probably understand transes more if the logic was consistent. Like at first it was that they literally have the brain of the opposite sex which seemed kinda off to me but whatever. But now its just if you feel like a girl you are one and the shifty brain science is just never mentioned anymore. I just dont get how you feel like a man or woman you’re just yourself
I've always felt this way and I think it's one of the reasons the T is falling apart right now. They don't make any sense and I don't think even they know.
T also represents identity. LGB is sexuality. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
I imagine it's driven by their "disphoria", its a sensation none of us can relate to or really comprehend. I guess it'd be like if you woke up one day and you were a beetle instead of a person. And everyone started referring to you as "that beetle thing" instead of a human being, while technically its true you physically are a beetle thing i'd feel pretty dehumanising and terrible to essentially have your humanity stripped away in the way people talk about you. So that sensation, but instead you were a beetle from the start despite knowing you were supposed to be a human.
No clue man. Im just a dumb autist but id probably understand transes more if the logic was consistent. Like at first it was that they literally have the brain of the opposite sex which seemed kinda off to me but whatever. But now its just if you feel like a girl you are one and the shifty brain science is just never mentioned anymore. I just dont get how you feel like a man or woman you’re just yourself
I've always felt this way and I think it's one of the reasons the T is falling apart right now. They don't make any sense and I don't think even they know.
T also represents identity. LGB is sexuality. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
One of the problems with a sort of "yes and" inclusivity is you get situations where more and more people are allowed to be apart of an identity even if they really shouldn't be simply because the "moral" thing to do is to be nice and polite and accepting. So originally being trans meant you had dysphoria, but then some people who were just gender nonconforming wanted to use the trans label without dysphoria so they could feel apart of that community. And then, when some trans people speak out against this they are called "truscum". But its pretty evident that despite the LGBT community being a, well, community, they aren't actually all aligned on their opinions for how this stuff should work.
>But its pretty evident that despite the LGBT community being a, well, community, they aren't actually all aligned on their opinions for how this stuff should work.
It's not helpful that T has very powerful gatekeepers that are reminiscent of cult leaders that administer terminology, behaviors, acceptable discourse, etc. and you get immediately banned or silenced if you aren't 100% in line.
Well yeah you do have to keep in mind this isn't a peer reviewing scientific community you are interacting with in these instances, it's literally just a bunch of random people, a lot of them probably underaged as well. They naturally aren't organised, but are still very protective of their identity so will lash out at anything they perceive to potentially be a threat. You can only really start dealing with them if you remember to handle them like individuals who form likeminded clubs instead of one unified group.
You didn't read what I said properly, they aren't all going to have the same opinion because they aren't a single unified group. So inconsistencies in how it works is because different individuals in these groups have different, clashing opinions. Please for the love of god can people on this website stop just making shit up in other people's posts to greentext and then post about so they can get angry at it, this is like the third time today I've seen that happen.
7 months ago
Anonymous
you are right, anon, sorry.
i do think most of these subgroups are founded on the same warped ideological basis. there are some self-aware trannies out there but they are very few and far between. my main issue is that these people operate on such different systems of thinking, i don't really even know how to begin to interact, especially when trannies can get volatile quickly
>trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are separate concepts
The first thing to understand about trans ideology is that there is no universally accepted ideological line among all transgenders beyond the ultimate goal of being accepted as the opposite gender. This creates a pretty big divide between the trans essentialists who claim that sex is in the brain, and so sex necessarily produces a certain gender (the one that matches the brain sex) and the postmodernists who claim that biological sex is nothing but an attempt to make gender objective by medical science. Both groups essentially agree that gender and sex are not separate things, which, curiously, makes them agree with the conservative line that your sex determines your gender. The slight difference is that you either locate sex in the brain, and so you might get males with women's brains making them women and viceversa, and so sex determined gender, or you simply invert the order and say that gender determines sex. Most trans activists do not separate between sex and gender because that separation allows you to conceptualize masculine women and feminine men. Masculine and feminine being gender attributes and men and women being sexual characteristics. So, it is not in the interest of people who claim to be the opposite sex to allow for the possibility that they might just be of the different gender. Since gender, is definitely a weaker thing than biological sex. Gender is just the traditional archetypes culture has used to differentiate men and women in society. Many of these archetypes are grounded on biological differences but the key point is that they are not the biological differences themselves. Like, for example, the lady way to ride a horse, both legs on the same side, is a gender attribute, but it is grounded on a sexual reality; women might break their hymen if they ride with a leg on each side.
Sorry, should have said opposite sex at the beginning to not create more confusion than there alreay is.
What I mean to say is that when trans activists say gender they typically mean what we understand by biological sex and when they say gender presentation, they mean gender.
>trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are separate concepts
The first thing to understand about trans ideology is that there is no universally accepted ideological line among all transgenders beyond the ultimate goal of being accepted as the opposite gender. This creates a pretty big divide between the trans essentialists who claim that sex is in the brain, and so sex necessarily produces a certain gender (the one that matches the brain sex) and the postmodernists who claim that biological sex is nothing but an attempt to make gender objective by medical science. Both groups essentially agree that gender and sex are not separate things, which, curiously, makes them agree with the conservative line that your sex determines your gender. The slight difference is that you either locate sex in the brain, and so you might get males with women's brains making them women and viceversa, and so sex determined gender, or you simply invert the order and say that gender determines sex. Most trans activists do not separate between sex and gender because that separation allows you to conceptualize masculine women and feminine men. Masculine and feminine being gender attributes and men and women being sexual characteristics. So, it is not in the interest of people who claim to be the opposite sex to allow for the possibility that they might just be of the different gender. Since gender, is definitely a weaker thing than biological sex. Gender is just the traditional archetypes culture has used to differentiate men and women in society. Many of these archetypes are grounded on biological differences but the key point is that they are not the biological differences themselves. Like, for example, the lady way to ride a horse, both legs on the same side, is a gender attribute, but it is grounded on a sexual reality; women might break their hymen if they ride with a leg on each side.
It's just a big logic pretzel that pisses everyone off. If they just said they're aware that they're not the opposite sex but wish to live like they are, then we would have a lot less problems. They already have something like that in Asia with ladyboys. But in the West there's a demand that everyone lies and say these people literally are the sex they want to be and all naysayers get their lives destroyed.
Ladyboys dont generate a lifelong stream of revenue in therapy sessions, hormone prescriptions and extremely costly surgeries.
Although. I think the whole ladyboy culture is only possible under the kind of extreme gender role conservatism that exists in asian cultures.
You're operating on a rational level that responds, in part, in good faith to the assertions being offered to you. Essentially saying "if what you say is true, then what are the explanations for these contradictory, dissonant concepts that arise from your premise?" Which is fine! This is a good way to approach things.
The problem is that the other side of this on-going discourse is clinically fricking insane and not operating on rational thought and logical conclusions. Worse still, many are lying or otherwise trying to conceal what amounts to intense psychotic instability or outright deviant perversion that fuels an uncontrollable need to manipulate, abuse, and exploit others. We've become familiar with the sort of psychopaths who do such things to amass wealth and influence, but we're less prone to grasping that a psychopath could be someone seized by a narcissistic delusion that preys on pity and sympathy to gain social power and inflict their insanity on others.
>If this is the case how can trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are seperate concepts?
Because two concepts can be separate but still correlated. Sex and sexual orientations is an example of that : your sexual orientation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your sex... but for most of the human population, it does.
Sex and gender are the same for most people, so the words used are the same. But at the end of the day, when we talk about men and women, or use words like "he" or "she", in most social contexts we are not referring to biological truths but to perception : if I call a woman in the street "madam", it's not because I've seen that her vegana is authentic and know she has XX chromosomes. It's because she looks and acts like a woman.
The only biological identifiers that exist are your chromosomes and birth genitals. Everything else is language and culture. There isn't anything inherently "biological" about a word - we just collectively decided that "female" and "male" relate more to inherent sex and "woman" and "man" are more flexible but the english language could easily have gone the other way, there is zero inherent truth to words.
>Sex and gender are the same for most people, so the words used are the same. But at the end of the day, when we talk about men and women, or use words like "he" or "she", in most social contexts we are not referring to biological truths but to perception : if I call a woman in the street "madam", it's not because I've seen that her vegana is authentic and know she has XX chromosomes. It's because she looks and acts like a woman.
You don't have to verify someone's genitals because the bio-markers are obvious for 99% of the population. So yes, people are mentally verifying your sex before they address you as sir or madam. That's why this all falls apart when someone acts and displays on what you call a woman (which is really a collection sex stereotypes) but no one buys it if the individual is very obviously not the sex they're mascarading as. As much as people have tried to twist themselves trying to remake the words men and women, they will never be separated from sex.
>Because two concepts can be separate but still correlated.
But that's the problem, the two concepts are not in anyway treated as seperate. You can't make the argument that someone's gender is determined by social concepts while then using a biological term to refer to their identity. To use your example of sex and sexual orientation as an example it would be as if someone used the term "man" to refer to anyone who was gay indiscriminately. This would be completely insane because while their is a correlation between men and homosexuals that ignores that not all men are gay and that some gay people are women. You see the issue? That's why we have seperate terms from biological sex to refer to those in homosexual relations.
It's a person who got excluded from online circlejerks and became mindbroken at the presence of trannies. It's like reading ER's manifesto or that post complaining about America's obsession with Black person worship; same rambling, the only difference is the subject of vitriol has changed
>go to library >see gay orgy >”hey guys can you be quiet I’m trying to read” >gets throw out
That’s basically what happened, you can try to twist it but ultimately noting he said was wrong.
7 months ago
Anonymous
A library is a public space that provides a specific utility to the community, while Discord chats and livestreams are notoriously insular.
It would be more similar to going on Cinemaphile and being upset when people discuss politics and dicky instead of cartoons and comics. You got degenerate shit instead of what you were expecting, but at the same time the culture should not change just for (You)
7 months ago
Anonymous
you aren't as smart as you think you are
7 months ago
Anonymous
>go to place to do thing >people are doing totally different thing >try to do thing place is for >get kicked out
Are you really so moronic that I had to spell out the most basic analogy for you?
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's Discord anon, most of those communities devolve into inane chatter centered around a few power users, similar to a loosely-moderated internet forum in the 2000s. That anon was in the right to be upset but was not entitled to a space talk about video games, and assumed this phenomenon happened because of trannies especially
7 months ago
Anonymous
But it wasn’t just space talk, he was talking about Metroid lore in the channel for Metroid lore. If it was the general I could possibly get that but it’s not.
what about tumblrinas? they are who most gets triggered and whine until they get to ban someone from twitter, in fact i think trannies try to imitate and follow what they preach.
>So if that is the case why exactly do Trans individuals demand that they be referred to by biological identifiers?
Most want to be identified by their gender identifier, but make the distinction between gender and biological sex. It's why the terms "transsexual" and "sex reassignment surgery" have been rebranded in the past couple decades
>Why aren't trans individuals simply referred to as Masculine Females and Feminine Males?
Because the biological sex is the one that they don't identify with, the role/body that produces dysphoria. So it makes sense to try and put as much distance from that as possible, especially when those terms make the implication that a trans-identifying male is ultimately still male
Your question falsely assumes that 100% of Trans individuals automatically opt for SRS and believe the only legitimacy of their gender is to properly surgically transition. This is not exactly an unquestionable proposition and has alot of debate and different levels of adherence even in the Trans community itself.
Since the internet became popular a bunch of blue-haired autists started to leech off being a troony and created a "trendy' community, inventing shit like "non-binary" and "you dont need have anything in common with females to be one". any discussion is moot now.
>Across hundreds of such studies, Dr. Eliot's team found extremely poor reliability in sex difference findings -- nearly all specific brain areas that differed in activity between men and women were not repeated across studies. Such poor reproducibility agrees with recent research out of Stanford University demonstrating "false discovery," or the over-publication of false-positive findings in the scientific literature on functional MRI sex difference.
if i said i was a schizo, and someone called bullshit show me them mris boy, i would say no.
aside from that its what the other guy said. if there is a difference in the brain its probably some chemical imbalance, like the kid didnt have enough testosterone or too much estrogen or some thing like that, that leaks over into adulthood. if that is the case, the effects wouldnt be confined to the brain.
I never understood why there's such a massive overlap between being a troony and being autistic when autism is supposed to make you more logical and rational but troony logic is unstable mental gymnastics that vary depending on who you ask
Autism doesn't make you logical.
It makes you monotropic, which means you can only process small pieces of information but said pieces of information get processed with higher intensity than neurotypicas, who process broad swaths of information at low intensity.
Autists can understand their own perspectives very, which may come off as them being logical, but will fail to understand others' perspectives.
A troony autist will understand the internal logic of their own gender identity but fail to understand any critique against it.
Likewise, a non-troony autist won't understand troony logic at all.
they are brainwashed. the feeling might be real for some, but if they are smart they end up femboys or something like that. or just, you know, get overt themselves. your logic is sound. biological sex is all that matters, pretending differently, aside from it just being plain wrong, becomes very fricky very fast.
the whole reason this dogma was generated in the first place is from:
1. troonys not wanting or not being able to properly explain how they feel.
2. ~~*bankers*~~ hijaking the whole ordeal and spreading it to moronic kids.
3. homosexuals who have a fetish for being treated like a girl out numbering homosexuals who hate being alive/want to be pretty.
I imagine it's driven by their "disphoria", its a sensation none of us can relate to or really comprehend. I guess it'd be like if you woke up one day and you were a beetle instead of a person. And everyone started referring to you as "that beetle thing" instead of a human being, while technically its true you physically are a beetle thing i'd feel pretty dehumanising and terrible to essentially have your humanity stripped away in the way people talk about you. So that sensation, but instead you were a beetle from the start despite knowing you were supposed to be a human.
[...]
[...]
One of the problems with a sort of "yes and" inclusivity is you get situations where more and more people are allowed to be apart of an identity even if they really shouldn't be simply because the "moral" thing to do is to be nice and polite and accepting. So originally being trans meant you had dysphoria, but then some people who were just gender nonconforming wanted to use the trans label without dysphoria so they could feel apart of that community. And then, when some trans people speak out against this they are called "truscum". But its pretty evident that despite the LGBT community being a, well, community, they aren't actually all aligned on their opinions for how this stuff should work.
>"that beetle thing"
isnt that just life? like, man or women, our bodies are not us. we dont belong to ourselves and the one who is meant to care for us rejects us.
*activates layla outro*
>So if that is the case why exactly do Trans individuals demand that they be referred to by biological identifiers? Why aren't trans individuals simply referred to as Masculine Females and Feminine Males? By arguing that someone should refer to you by a biological identifyer it is essentially arguing that gender and biological sex are one and the same or at the very least connected.
Because transgender was originally about people with mental illnesses who thought their body should be the opposite gender. It was entirely biological and mental.
What happened was that in the 80s a professor found a lot of success in academia by promoting "gender identity theory," which is all about saying that gender only exists insofar as it is determined societally and collectively, and nothing else matters. Hence, transgender people now have to abandon the biological justification and demand that they are taking on the role, or "presenting as" the opposite societal gender.
>argue in honesty
They largely don't. Some individuals can make cohesive arguments but the zeitgeist of the issue is an incoherent mess that manages to piss off lefty feminists and conservative sexists at the same time because the people peddling the ideology thought 1984 was an instruction manual. There is no argument when words are meaningless and those in charge know this. So the language and standards constantly shifts and now anyone who questions any of it gets labelled a transphobe and equated to a screeching /misc/tard.
I still remember when Chappelle roasted the trannies for being absurd and the community tried to get him cancelled, and when that failed they settled for bullying his trans friend to suicide.
Anyway comics and cartoons, have an unrelated cartoon girl
>yay a new South park thread! >it's just people arguing about trannies again
I'M a troony and even I'm sick of this. Start a thread over in /misc/ if you wanna argue, or /lgbt/ if you want answers about it. I'll be back for the next thread, I guess. This one's already fricked.
Me, or the ones using a south park episode to b***h and moan about dicks and veganas? (I'm just checking up to see if maybe everyone moved on before I go to bed. They have not.)
I want trans people to be happy and healthy.
I love all people equally.
And so far, I have not seen the community benefit from being told they are the opposite of their birth sex. It seems like it's a game.
Have you SEEN the shit going on out there? Like with that 50 year old who insisted on being in a competion with 12 year old swimmers? They aren't even keeping up with the world.
Literally the only good poster
2 SAME NUMBERS!
the surgery was gross but trannies are gross so i guess the shoe fits
>the surgery was gross but trannies are gross so i guess the shoe fits
in the commentary they were like "we originally wanted the whole first ten minutes to be just surgical footage"
A lot of media had done sloppy work with gender in the past. But this episode was purposeful anti-transgender propaganda a decade before the Republicans and Tories made it their number 1 wedge issue.
i used to watch South Park and think "lol so edgy" but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
>before the Republicans and Tories made it their number 1 wedge issue
You mean when trans people crossed a bunch of social boundaries and attempted to use the law as well as the public court to destroy anyone in their way and naturally a resistance to this formed?
>i used to watch South Park and think "lol so edgy" but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
Yes we must outlaw jokes and criticism, lives are at stake. have a nice day.
>but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
If being lightly mocked by the most safe-edgy show on TV for the last 20 years is enough to make you consider suicide, you're already too mentally unstable for your own good and should seek psychiatric help.
It is kinda insane how so much of the trans argument essentially boils down to "do whatever we want or we will kill ourselves, you don't want our blood on your hands, do you?"
Or we will shoot your kids.
Communists are in full on culling mode now that heir dear leader Xi Jinping is doomed huh.
>but now they were absolutely trying to get people to kill themselves in about 1/4 of the episodes.
Why would showing the realities of the surgery get people to kill themselves? Like seems like they were just going to show it.
It funny how trannies keep saying they aren’t mentally ill or unstable. Yet they immediately start considering suicide the second someone mocks them. For fricks sake SP has been doing this shit for 26 years and has made fun of almost every group out there.
>"Would you rather have a dead son or an alive daughter?"
It's the chant of the groomer, always insisting that every child who acts the slightest bit out of line with extremely exaggerated gender roles must be severely distraught and on the verge of killing themselves in the most gruesome ways possible if you don't let them destroy their bodies with puberty blockers ASAP
So I have a legitamate question.
So the basic concept of Trans ideology is that Gender represents how you identify in terms of roles provided to the sexual binary. You essentially argue that your sexual indentity is based on perceptions of what qualifies as masculine and feminine and want to act on the qualities that make you most comfortable.
This is in contrast to your biological sex which is determined by your sex chromosomes, produced gametes, and genitalia. Essentially whether your are male or female as these are biological labels based on observable data.
So if that is the case why exactly do Trans individuals demand that they be referred to by biological identifiers? Why aren't trans individuals simply referred to as Masculine Females and Feminine Males? By arguing that someone should refer to you by a biological identifyer it is essentially arguing that gender and biological sex are one and the same or at the very least connected.
If this is the case how can trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are seperate concepts?
i genuinely think transgenderism has stamped out any discussion like this, so i'm not sure they'll give you a real answer. just like asking
>"what does it mean to feel like a woman"
will garner no absolute definitions of anything. it's simply a social contagion
Yeah my question is always
>How do you know what a woman feels like if you were born male and how do you know that isn't something men feel
And boy oh boy, did I get attacked and torn to pieces to the point where I'm done engaging with that community entirely.
It blows because I'm a flaming homosexual and I have to deal with these people all the time. The weirdest is when I get called part of the T community but the trans woman (biological male) is straight, which makes him (now her) gay. So you're... LGB... And also straight...
and the answers you get are (unsurprisingly) horribly stereotypical of women. these men really do see womanhood as a costume.
i really do see it as a mental disorder where one's body just will never "fit". a lot of people report having surgeries done and it just never feels like it's enough, it's not any different from compulsive plastic surgery.
am homosexual and cannot stand any of these people
>am homosexual and cannot stand any of these people
Same. I left the LGBT Discord I was in because they started complaining about men refusing to accept trans men in gay relationships.
I'm not having sex with a fricking vegana.
>I'm a flaming homosexual
I am curious and I dont know any gay people. Is there a reason why male gay culture and, consequently, the gay male archetype is so affected/"feminine"? What I mean is that the stereotypical gay man behaves in the stereotypical way an annoying woman does; with exaggerated mannerisms, a sort of valley accent and with constant excitement over minute things. This is not the way a typical woman behaves and nothing in the definition of gay man implies that he should behave this way, its just a male attracted to other males. Even historical homosexuality like the greeks did not have this characterization. So, I just wanted to ask the reason for this stereotype.
because the most flamboyant people are the most prominent when it comes to a counter-culture movement. in turn, you probably have gay men acting more effeminate to align more with their cultural identity. being repressed until adulthood probably builds some emotional immaturity in people, and so you see more childish mannerisms manifest as a culture once those people reach some solace
I'm a straight guy giving my own two cents but I'd reckon part of it has to do with how homosexuality was stigmatised for so long. It's probably the case where men who are already a bit feminine have a higher chance of being attracted to men. But Since it couldn't be out in the open as a "normal" thing, it essentially evolved its own culture. Their own way of speaking, dressing, all things to signify their gayness to other gay men and in their insular groups these things would just build up and form "gay culture". And then when "pride" culture started being more apparent, with gay people slowly being more accepted, the mannerisms they had built up where then shown to the rest of the world, who then associate that with gayness, and then further spreads that understanding of gay culture. Both how straight people see gay people, and how gay people discovering their identity think they themselves should also act since it's their apparent culture.
That was me, responding late, sorry.
I'm a flaming gay because all of my best friends are women and we all act the same way around each other and our cultural connection was literally watching Mean Girls once a month in high school.
I legit feel bad for you regular gays. Like you guys did all the legwork in getting recognized for rights and shit, and a bucnh of weirdos come in and coopt your movement and make it all about them to the point where if you disagree with them, you've somehow disqualified yourself from the group. Its like if during the civil rights movement a bunch of weird ass white people claiming to be transracially black entered the civil rights discourse and anyone who disagreed with them would be lumped in with the actual racist
I think it's why the discourse in the community with non-binary people happened. If you take the stance that gender is social than you can't really take the stance that you just feel like the wrong gender in some biological way. I think it was a similar issue between those with and without gender dysphoria.
It's kinda like asking why even need to change your body at all? Under the ideas of societal perception your biological body shouldn't be a major issue unless you assume that genitalia is inherently linked to gender. Which many don't go through that surgery so clearly it isn't. Basically why would they call it gender dysphoria when they aren't comfortable with their sex.
Dysphoria also means being physically mentally and emotionally distraught and uncomfortable with your body, especially genetalia. Cis people just dont understand.
I think maybe you should just go to therapy or something and find out what made you hate your body
Is the picture an offtopic anime beloved by trannies?
That’s mental illness
What you don't understand is that even though what you say is true, that STILL doesn't make you a woman. That is a problem and needs therapy, but in modern times that is impossible
Sadly, trans people are condemned, they should never have listened to people like you. They need help but It's over.
Try practicing semen retention for 90 days and see what happens with your dysphoria. I guarantee your thirst for wieners is because you keep emptying yourself constantly.
Sane people don't understand what it's like to be a delusional, self-destruction psychopath.
I had body dysphoria over back acne.
I was so uncomfortable and unhappy in my own body I couldn't post pictures of myself, even my face, though it wa sonly on my back. I also was very insecure and self-conscious and I wouldn't even go into the bathroom by myself with the lights on if I had to take my shirt off. the idea of seeing my back literally traumatized me.
The people who post on these threads and post about gender and genitalia etc and post selfies and talk about transitioning don't strike me as dysphoric in any way shape or form, they come off like trendy hipsters who love talking about themselves and following a new thing with friends and a group to join. they don't seem traumatized or actually mentally 'ill' beyond just having an obsession with something and labeling genders and maybe some autism.
It's kind of horrifying that dysphoria has been twisted in this way by this group because body dysphoria is fricking truly horrifying. It took me 5 years plus support groups, who were all variously traumatized by features of their bodies, to come to terms with my skin.
I can't imagine if it was just a group posting selfies and pics and taking hormones and being told back acne is normal and the way I felt was normal I was just in the wrong skin or something.
>they come off like trendy hipsters who love talking about themselves and following a new thing with friends and a group to join. they don't seem traumatized or actually mentally 'ill' beyond just having an obsession with something and labeling genders and maybe some autism
It's a sampling based off of (what I assume are) trends, unfortunately. In the same way white college girls who label themselves bi on their profiles are not a fair representation of gays, these are not a fair representation of tr ansgenders
fake-bi college girls aren't passing legislation that eliminates female spaces and sex-based protections.
i've never heard a description of transgenderism that wasn't sexist or homophobic
>legislation that eliminates female spaces and sex-based protections
sauce me up fampai
In the US at least, it's actually the executive branch's interpretation title 9, although the lawsuits are still in the very early phases.
Unless I'm missing something, the current arguments just revolves specifically around trannies using the restrooms that match their identified gender. Regardless of how you feel on that, likening it to elimination of female spaces and sex-based protections seems hyperbolic
you are missing plenty. restrooms are the visible issue that everybody starts with but there's also scholarships, sports, hospitals, and prisons. none of those are sex-segregated anymore because if a man stomps his foot hard enough he'll get in. not to mention men claiming "first woman to do X" in political and entertainment industries
No clue man. Im just a dumb autist but id probably understand transes more if the logic was consistent. Like at first it was that they literally have the brain of the opposite sex which seemed kinda off to me but whatever. But now its just if you feel like a girl you are one and the shifty brain science is just never mentioned anymore. I just dont get how you feel like a man or woman you’re just yourself
I've always felt this way and I think it's one of the reasons the T is falling apart right now. They don't make any sense and I don't think even they know.
T also represents identity. LGB is sexuality. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence.
I imagine it's driven by their "disphoria", its a sensation none of us can relate to or really comprehend. I guess it'd be like if you woke up one day and you were a beetle instead of a person. And everyone started referring to you as "that beetle thing" instead of a human being, while technically its true you physically are a beetle thing i'd feel pretty dehumanising and terrible to essentially have your humanity stripped away in the way people talk about you. So that sensation, but instead you were a beetle from the start despite knowing you were supposed to be a human.
One of the problems with a sort of "yes and" inclusivity is you get situations where more and more people are allowed to be apart of an identity even if they really shouldn't be simply because the "moral" thing to do is to be nice and polite and accepting. So originally being trans meant you had dysphoria, but then some people who were just gender nonconforming wanted to use the trans label without dysphoria so they could feel apart of that community. And then, when some trans people speak out against this they are called "truscum". But its pretty evident that despite the LGBT community being a, well, community, they aren't actually all aligned on their opinions for how this stuff should work.
>But its pretty evident that despite the LGBT community being a, well, community, they aren't actually all aligned on their opinions for how this stuff should work.
It's not helpful that T has very powerful gatekeepers that are reminiscent of cult leaders that administer terminology, behaviors, acceptable discourse, etc. and you get immediately banned or silenced if you aren't 100% in line.
Well yeah you do have to keep in mind this isn't a peer reviewing scientific community you are interacting with in these instances, it's literally just a bunch of random people, a lot of them probably underaged as well. They naturally aren't organised, but are still very protective of their identity so will lash out at anything they perceive to potentially be a threat. You can only really start dealing with them if you remember to handle them like individuals who form likeminded clubs instead of one unified group.
>every member of the community is batshit insane
>"just give them a chance!"
no
You didn't read what I said properly, they aren't all going to have the same opinion because they aren't a single unified group. So inconsistencies in how it works is because different individuals in these groups have different, clashing opinions. Please for the love of god can people on this website stop just making shit up in other people's posts to greentext and then post about so they can get angry at it, this is like the third time today I've seen that happen.
you are right, anon, sorry.
i do think most of these subgroups are founded on the same warped ideological basis. there are some self-aware trannies out there but they are very few and far between. my main issue is that these people operate on such different systems of thinking, i don't really even know how to begin to interact, especially when trannies can get volatile quickly
They are hypocrite people that want to make mental gymnast to defend their fetishes. They will never admit the flaws in their own mindset.
>trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are separate concepts
The first thing to understand about trans ideology is that there is no universally accepted ideological line among all transgenders beyond the ultimate goal of being accepted as the opposite gender. This creates a pretty big divide between the trans essentialists who claim that sex is in the brain, and so sex necessarily produces a certain gender (the one that matches the brain sex) and the postmodernists who claim that biological sex is nothing but an attempt to make gender objective by medical science. Both groups essentially agree that gender and sex are not separate things, which, curiously, makes them agree with the conservative line that your sex determines your gender. The slight difference is that you either locate sex in the brain, and so you might get males with women's brains making them women and viceversa, and so sex determined gender, or you simply invert the order and say that gender determines sex. Most trans activists do not separate between sex and gender because that separation allows you to conceptualize masculine women and feminine men. Masculine and feminine being gender attributes and men and women being sexual characteristics. So, it is not in the interest of people who claim to be the opposite sex to allow for the possibility that they might just be of the different gender. Since gender, is definitely a weaker thing than biological sex. Gender is just the traditional archetypes culture has used to differentiate men and women in society. Many of these archetypes are grounded on biological differences but the key point is that they are not the biological differences themselves. Like, for example, the lady way to ride a horse, both legs on the same side, is a gender attribute, but it is grounded on a sexual reality; women might break their hymen if they ride with a leg on each side.
Sorry, should have said opposite sex at the beginning to not create more confusion than there alreay is.
What I mean to say is that when trans activists say gender they typically mean what we understand by biological sex and when they say gender presentation, they mean gender.
It's just a big logic pretzel that pisses everyone off. If they just said they're aware that they're not the opposite sex but wish to live like they are, then we would have a lot less problems. They already have something like that in Asia with ladyboys. But in the West there's a demand that everyone lies and say these people literally are the sex they want to be and all naysayers get their lives destroyed.
Ladyboys dont generate a lifelong stream of revenue in therapy sessions, hormone prescriptions and extremely costly surgeries.
Although. I think the whole ladyboy culture is only possible under the kind of extreme gender role conservatism that exists in asian cultures.
You're operating on a rational level that responds, in part, in good faith to the assertions being offered to you. Essentially saying "if what you say is true, then what are the explanations for these contradictory, dissonant concepts that arise from your premise?" Which is fine! This is a good way to approach things.
The problem is that the other side of this on-going discourse is clinically fricking insane and not operating on rational thought and logical conclusions. Worse still, many are lying or otherwise trying to conceal what amounts to intense psychotic instability or outright deviant perversion that fuels an uncontrollable need to manipulate, abuse, and exploit others. We've become familiar with the sort of psychopaths who do such things to amass wealth and influence, but we're less prone to grasping that a psychopath could be someone seized by a narcissistic delusion that preys on pity and sympathy to gain social power and inflict their insanity on others.
>If this is the case how can trans individuals argue in honesty that gender and sex are seperate concepts?
Because two concepts can be separate but still correlated. Sex and sexual orientations is an example of that : your sexual orientation doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your sex... but for most of the human population, it does.
Sex and gender are the same for most people, so the words used are the same. But at the end of the day, when we talk about men and women, or use words like "he" or "she", in most social contexts we are not referring to biological truths but to perception : if I call a woman in the street "madam", it's not because I've seen that her vegana is authentic and know she has XX chromosomes. It's because she looks and acts like a woman.
The only biological identifiers that exist are your chromosomes and birth genitals. Everything else is language and culture. There isn't anything inherently "biological" about a word - we just collectively decided that "female" and "male" relate more to inherent sex and "woman" and "man" are more flexible but the english language could easily have gone the other way, there is zero inherent truth to words.
>Sex and gender are the same for most people, so the words used are the same. But at the end of the day, when we talk about men and women, or use words like "he" or "she", in most social contexts we are not referring to biological truths but to perception : if I call a woman in the street "madam", it's not because I've seen that her vegana is authentic and know she has XX chromosomes. It's because she looks and acts like a woman.
You don't have to verify someone's genitals because the bio-markers are obvious for 99% of the population. So yes, people are mentally verifying your sex before they address you as sir or madam. That's why this all falls apart when someone acts and displays on what you call a woman (which is really a collection sex stereotypes) but no one buys it if the individual is very obviously not the sex they're mascarading as. As much as people have tried to twist themselves trying to remake the words men and women, they will never be separated from sex.
>Because two concepts can be separate but still correlated.
But that's the problem, the two concepts are not in anyway treated as seperate. You can't make the argument that someone's gender is determined by social concepts while then using a biological term to refer to their identity. To use your example of sex and sexual orientation as an example it would be as if someone used the term "man" to refer to anyone who was gay indiscriminately. This would be completely insane because while their is a correlation between men and homosexuals that ignores that not all men are gay and that some gay people are women. You see the issue? That's why we have seperate terms from biological sex to refer to those in homosexual relations.
They are insane.
The anon in the pic does sound a bit deranged
Nothing wrong with sounding a bit manic after being endlessly harassed.
that's what happens when trannies worm their way into every facet of culture
He would be if anything he was saying was false.
It's a person who got excluded from online circlejerks and became mindbroken at the presence of trannies. It's like reading ER's manifesto or that post complaining about America's obsession with Black person worship; same rambling, the only difference is the subject of vitriol has changed
>go to library
>see gay orgy
>”hey guys can you be quiet I’m trying to read”
>gets throw out
That’s basically what happened, you can try to twist it but ultimately noting he said was wrong.
A library is a public space that provides a specific utility to the community, while Discord chats and livestreams are notoriously insular.
It would be more similar to going on Cinemaphile and being upset when people discuss politics and dicky instead of cartoons and comics. You got degenerate shit instead of what you were expecting, but at the same time the culture should not change just for (You)
you aren't as smart as you think you are
>go to place to do thing
>people are doing totally different thing
>try to do thing place is for
>get kicked out
Are you really so moronic that I had to spell out the most basic analogy for you?
It's Discord anon, most of those communities devolve into inane chatter centered around a few power users, similar to a loosely-moderated internet forum in the 2000s. That anon was in the right to be upset but was not entitled to a space talk about video games, and assumed this phenomenon happened because of trannies especially
But it wasn’t just space talk, he was talking about Metroid lore in the channel for Metroid lore. If it was the general I could possibly get that but it’s not.
Being surrounded by the deranged all the time can make one a bit deranged themselve.
what about tumblrinas? they are who most gets triggered and whine until they get to ban someone from twitter, in fact i think trannies try to imitate and follow what they preach.
For the most part one and the same
>So if that is the case why exactly do Trans individuals demand that they be referred to by biological identifiers?
Most want to be identified by their gender identifier, but make the distinction between gender and biological sex. It's why the terms "transsexual" and "sex reassignment surgery" have been rebranded in the past couple decades
>Why aren't trans individuals simply referred to as Masculine Females and Feminine Males?
Because the biological sex is the one that they don't identify with, the role/body that produces dysphoria. So it makes sense to try and put as much distance from that as possible, especially when those terms make the implication that a trans-identifying male is ultimately still male
Your question falsely assumes that 100% of Trans individuals automatically opt for SRS and believe the only legitimacy of their gender is to properly surgically transition. This is not exactly an unquestionable proposition and has alot of debate and different levels of adherence even in the Trans community itself.
Since the internet became popular a bunch of blue-haired autists started to leech off being a troony and created a "trendy' community, inventing shit like "non-binary" and "you dont need have anything in common with females to be one". any discussion is moot now.
The question I'd like to see answered is
if brain scans scientifically prove transgenderism is real then why do trannies never post their brain scans
>Across hundreds of such studies, Dr. Eliot's team found extremely poor reliability in sex difference findings -- nearly all specific brain areas that differed in activity between men and women were not repeated across studies. Such poor reproducibility agrees with recent research out of Stanford University demonstrating "false discovery," or the over-publication of false-positive findings in the scientific literature on functional MRI sex difference.
so basically we all have the same brain. There's no such thing as feeling male or female is there.
Does that mean trans people are neuro sexists?
Yep. Men and women aren't different.
Trannies literally think they're the opposite sex if they don't act like perfect stereotypes of their sex, they're inherently sexists.
There is such a thing as male and female, it just isnt entirely present in the brain.
Implying all men like to get stuffed.
if i said i was a schizo, and someone called bullshit show me them mris boy, i would say no.
aside from that its what the other guy said. if there is a difference in the brain its probably some chemical imbalance, like the kid didnt have enough testosterone or too much estrogen or some thing like that, that leaks over into adulthood. if that is the case, the effects wouldnt be confined to the brain.
I never understood why there's such a massive overlap between being a troony and being autistic when autism is supposed to make you more logical and rational but troony logic is unstable mental gymnastics that vary depending on who you ask
Autism doesn't make you logical.
It makes you monotropic, which means you can only process small pieces of information but said pieces of information get processed with higher intensity than neurotypicas, who process broad swaths of information at low intensity.
Autists can understand their own perspectives very, which may come off as them being logical, but will fail to understand others' perspectives.
A troony autist will understand the internal logic of their own gender identity but fail to understand any critique against it.
Likewise, a non-troony autist won't understand troony logic at all.
they are brainwashed. the feeling might be real for some, but if they are smart they end up femboys or something like that. or just, you know, get overt themselves. your logic is sound. biological sex is all that matters, pretending differently, aside from it just being plain wrong, becomes very fricky very fast.
the whole reason this dogma was generated in the first place is from:
1. troonys not wanting or not being able to properly explain how they feel.
2. ~~*bankers*~~ hijaking the whole ordeal and spreading it to moronic kids.
3. homosexuals who have a fetish for being treated like a girl out numbering homosexuals who hate being alive/want to be pretty.
>"that beetle thing"
isnt that just life? like, man or women, our bodies are not us. we dont belong to ourselves and the one who is meant to care for us rejects us.
*activates layla outro*
>So if that is the case why exactly do Trans individuals demand that they be referred to by biological identifiers? Why aren't trans individuals simply referred to as Masculine Females and Feminine Males? By arguing that someone should refer to you by a biological identifyer it is essentially arguing that gender and biological sex are one and the same or at the very least connected.
Because transgender was originally about people with mental illnesses who thought their body should be the opposite gender. It was entirely biological and mental.
What happened was that in the 80s a professor found a lot of success in academia by promoting "gender identity theory," which is all about saying that gender only exists insofar as it is determined societally and collectively, and nothing else matters. Hence, transgender people now have to abandon the biological justification and demand that they are taking on the role, or "presenting as" the opposite societal gender.
>argue in honesty
They largely don't. Some individuals can make cohesive arguments but the zeitgeist of the issue is an incoherent mess that manages to piss off lefty feminists and conservative sexists at the same time because the people peddling the ideology thought 1984 was an instruction manual. There is no argument when words are meaningless and those in charge know this. So the language and standards constantly shifts and now anyone who questions any of it gets labelled a transphobe and equated to a screeching /misc/tard.
I still remember when Chappelle roasted the trannies for being absurd and the community tried to get him cancelled, and when that failed they settled for bullying his trans friend to suicide.
Anyway comics and cartoons, have an unrelated cartoon girl
Yeah, he was gay, super gay.
But he didn't show any desire of being a female at all, or consider himself feminine either.
It was out of character.
I don't understand why so many MtFs dress the same way.
You mean like frumpy librarians at best?
Probably because female clothes were not designed to fit the male frame, so MtFs wardrobe's are limited to the only ones that sort of do.
Nope, it's still 100% accurate
Nah
>yay a new South park thread!
>it's just people arguing about trannies again
I'M a troony and even I'm sick of this. Start a thread over in /misc/ if you wanna argue, or /lgbt/ if you want answers about it. I'll be back for the next thread, I guess. This one's already fricked.
pristine bait, goddamn
Me, or the ones using a south park episode to b***h and moan about dicks and veganas?
(I'm just checking up to see if maybe everyone moved on before I go to bed. They have not.)
>anon thinks we want either side of the propaganda war
I'm not seeing anything besides propaganda war here, so it seems to be in high demand.
There are plenty of trans sympathetic posts here without drinking the kool aid
I want trans people to be happy and healthy.
I love all people equally.
And so far, I have not seen the community benefit from being told they are the opposite of their birth sex. It seems like it's a game.
The benefit is that pharmaceutical corporations get to make money
Have you SEEN the shit going on out there? Like with that 50 year old who insisted on being in a competion with 12 year old swimmers? They aren't even keeping up with the world.
Comics and/or Cartoons?