Did you know Wish was going be 2D, and then they didn't because they claimed traditional 2D has "too many limitations compared to 3D"?
https://www.ign.com/articles/wish-filmmakers-considered-going-full-2d-for-disneys-100th-anniversary-heres-why-they-didnt
>Walt Disney Animation Studios Chief Creative Officer and Wish executive producer/writer Jennifer Lee told IGN in a recent interview that in the early stages of development several years ago, using traditional 2d animation was seriously discussed.
>“What happens in hand-drawn is that you have the incredible hand of the artist, but also limitations in what you could do on screen,” Lee explained. “What happened in CG is you'd have incredible, boundless opportunities, visually, that elevated it — even to the point for some — into realism"
>Lee admitted that even after they committed to using computer animation to make Wish, they did consider using traditional animation to bring the character Star to life. Ultimately, she said 2D had too many limitations in terms of camera movements and characterization.
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
 |
DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
They literally could have used CG backgrounds for their scenes…
Oh wait they got rid of that CAPS system long time ago. Where it combined paint textures with CG
The original CAPS system had nothing like CG backgrounds that had paint textures. It wasn't until Tarzan that Deep Canvas (the paint textures onto CGI backgrounds) technology came into being.
Also, CAPS isn't needed at this point to integrate 2D characters into CG landscapes. Klaus did it perfectly a few years ago.
I think the whole "3D is less limiting" is only partially true at best and that much of the decision has to do with the slate of 2D people they could use mostly being either coming up on age or somewhat novice trainees.
Sure it was the artstyle that doomed it, not the bland story or stupid ugly characters.
>because they claimed traditional 2D has "too many limitations compared to 3D"?
btw those "limitations" are actually that 2d animators have a union
and also that hand-drawn animation requires a massive lead time to "fix" if there are script changes or whatever - a problem that 3D animation generally doesn't have
Puss in Boots TLW and Spiderverse both showed it could be done. Somehow, Wish cost twice as much and looks even worse.
Instead of looking stylized like a watercolor painting or whatever they were going for, it looks like a cheap PS2 cutscene.
Asha is as ugly as the gay in Strange World.
...
talk about Puss in Boots TLW
this is the name i recognize ...
Zac Retz ( Encanto )
Shiyoon Kim ( Raya )
Claire Keane ( Tangled )
Yes, Disney can do amazing 2D anime with this people ... wait.
nobody work at disney anymore is'n it.
hahaha
Can they even still do 2D?
No, they/thems can’t hack it
Everyone with the knowledge is long gone
Disney may have lost the secret arts, but they are not forgotten.
That's cg
No, its just rotoscoped. Same way that Disney did its animation for ages. The only part of it that is CG is the floor texture.
Frieren is doctored CG, anon.
>random asians on an island that has no historical connection to you now depicts your culture better than you
What the frick is wrong with us
This is indie animation and US indie animation does this as well but you’re autistic so you’re hyper focused on Disney and Nickelodeon children content only
Post some
This is Frieren: Beyond Journey's End. This is animated by Madhouse.
Did they burn all books and videos showing how to draw when they left?
They might as well have, because the new generation is too lazy to commit for learning anything
You can learn it if you tried but no one tries because it doesn't get them a job
The problem is that most of the people who could do 2D animation well were out doing 2D animation, not teaching it. The people who ended up as teachers in the field were usually people who didn't make it in the industry. As a result, the talent pool got worse and worse with every generation of animators.
It's even worse nowadays. There's so much emphasis on individual style that a lot of the self-taught "good" animators from this generation can only animate in one style, so they're completely useless for anything other than solo projects.
Part of the problem is that there is a hard break in animation style between generations where training did not survive. Older style animators were autistically focused on learning anatomy, to the point that it was sometimes a detriment to their work because it was all they knew how to draw. But the backlash against that is abstract shapes and noodle people drawn by people who have NEVER studied anatomy, so they couldn't draw normal humans if they tried.
None of the training from the first group is compatible to the people in the second group, and vice versa. The anatomy focused animators have largely died out due to old age, leaving no one left to teach the younger animators their ways.
You basically have to reboot the western animation industry from scratch to re-learn what was lost, and instead of doing that they would rather just copy other simplified styles, whether it be anime or beanmouths.
Anatomy is always useful. Once you can do that you can break the rules with style
The problem now is everyone has learned half lessons from broken rules. So many people struggle with perspective, line weight, and coveying weight, because they wanted to define their own style before actually learning how to draw
Meanwhile, japan might have a more limited range of styles for the most part but the result there is that new animators are constantly learning directly from older ones as they work as junior animators bringing projects to life while the more experienced animators set the direction. So lessons get passed on, techniques both persist and get iterated on with each new animator in each new generation, and as a junior you need to be able to adapt and draw the different specific style of each new project you are on.
Japan has their own problems now
Can't even draw mecha anymore
There's a huge difference between reading a how to book vs apprenticing directly under a master
Glad it wasn't. Would've just been the scapegoat for the film failing.
>with CG you have incredible, boundless opportunities
>don't take advantage of them
Wish is less visually impressive than the first Hotel Transylvania.
>Did you know
you mean that thing that has been repeated in every single thread even before the movie came out?
>boundless oportunities
>proceeds to not use any of them
>too many limitations compared to 3D
This is true though.
Meanwhile, Disney's past direct-to-video animation department (Walt Disney Animation Japan) now works with Makoto Shinkai (and sometimes Studio Ghibli) and their 2D animation looks great.
WHAT DOES THIS FRICKING b***h HAS ABOUT IGER
SHE KEEPS FAILING AND FAILING AND NO ONE IS DOING ANYTHING
They really did everything they could to make sure this movie was gonna be shit, didn't they?
It's like Lee wants to kill the studio.
This shit is so executive meddled that it turned into actual garbage
Can’t even blame the creatives, they had a somewhat competent idea. They wanted this to be traditional 2d. They wanted a romance story with the star guy. They wanted the queen to be the villain so the context of why people act like they do makes sense
Instead Lee, Iger and the execs under them butchered it so hard to make it a “sellable” product instead of a film, even down to the most corporate created songs ever thinking that will make it Frozen. And it became so bad nothing is enjoyable or justifiable in this and it bombed
>They wanted a romance story with the star guy. They wanted the queen to be the villain so the context of why people act like they do makes sense
FYI a few pieces of concept art doesn't mean that's what they definitely wanted. A lot of the concept art stage is just throwing random shit at the wall and see what sticks. The amount of concept art that exists for most projects could fill a few books.
>A lot of the concept art stage is just throwing random shit at the wall and see what sticks.
I guess shit was stickier than good stuff
It had to be a sabotage
The almost tragic thing is that the executives honestly thought that they were making it BETTER, not worse. Inside of the hypercapitalist, committee-oriented, "as you can see on the spreadsheet on page four", "twitter is a viable model of real human behaviour and interests" pocket dimension in which they live, these all seemed like sensible decisions. Wish failed for the same reason that Quantumania failed: not due to any malign conspiracy, but as the result of corporate types so wildly out of touch with the rest of the world that when they mandate a change to make things 'sell better' they do more harm than good.
Wish is worse in this regard, though. Quantumania was merely lame and poorly paced with some part of it that were too goofy for its own good. Wish, laid out on paper, is like a moral fable written by a psychopath. It peels back the curtain on the people with the decisonmaking power and reveals that they not only are out of touch, but the very morals that they think are relatable and inspirational are in fact disgusting. And before you /misc/shits jump on this and meme about brown people or multiculturalism or whatever, thats not what I am talking about. I am talking about the 'frick you, got mine' narrative that emerges from Wish's narrative to choke out everything else. As long as it makes me happy its good, I admit that this will likely have horrible consequences for everyone else but thats not my problem as long as I get what *I* want. Frick you, got mine. Even a cursory reading of Wish with any kind of critical thought sees this as a problem with the story in giant flashing red letters, but for the executives making these changes it was perfectly normal.
>when they mandate a change to make things 'sell better' they do more harm than good.
Why are they like this?
Because they're brain damaged lizard people with cold blood pumping through their heart shaped glands I thought this was stablished
I honestly have no idea what your image is supposed to mean.
You need to up your schizo game
Oh, well in that case I'm fine without it.
Let's not pretend that the writers were any better. They wrote shit, and corpos meddling just sloshed it around.
The writers are DEI hires that can't write their way out of a paper bag, and the executives using Twitter as a barometer for trends does not help the matter.
If the writers got their way, the star would have been a nonbinary shapeshifter, and we would hear endlessly on Twitter from them about how this movie is "important" because it is featuring the first nonbinary romance.
Thats a really dumb thing to get hung up over, anon. A shapeshifter is like the one case where being nonbinary is not just reasonable, but expected. If you actually can change sex as easily as you change clothes, why would it matter to you aside from maybe a personal preference?
This trope goes back literally hundreds of years. Getting mad about it now because twitter says you that you are obligated to pick a side in some culture war bullshit is the dumbest thing you can do.
In fact, you are making the same mistake that the corporate execs are: you are basing your entire reality on twitter shit. Changing your beliefs and actions entirely on speculation of what twitters will say about it, when the reality is that it doesn't matter and never has.
It's not the concept. It's the implementation. You just know that there is going to be a scene where Asha and the star will discuss his pronouns and dumb shit.
A tasteful way to do it is have the star transform into various things to show his powers, and it includes a male and female body, then he settles on a male body as it would be the most "appropriate" in the situation. Just show us that it has no real gender, but don't bring in the woke shit by giving u a 5-minute scene where Asha asks what his pronouns are, and they discuss gender theory like the writer feels like she is finally putting their gender studies degree to good use to lecture the audience with.
> It's not the concept. It's the implementation.
So you are made about the implementation of a thing that... didn't happen? The specifics of a thing that does not exist.
Do you not realize hat you are making up a thing that has only taken place in the space between your ears and then getting mad over what you yourself has imagined? You have trolled yourself, anon.
The concept art showed it transformed into both girl and boy, so yes, the nonbinary part was there. Likely, it was changed because of corporate meddling--specifically, don't do the girl transform part.
They already had a non binary shapfter Camilo from encanto and didn’t make a big deal about it in move
>It's not the concept. It's the implementation.
It was NEVER implemented you brainless monkey, it didnt make it past the concept. Youre making up scenarios to get mad at, thats just godamn stupid.
>The almost tragic thing is that the executives honestly thought that they were making it BETTER, not worse.
Of course, why do you people think ohterwise? "wokism" isn't them thinking it's le bad to make everything bad on purpose, they literally believe what they are doing is actually them being intelligent and creative, and doing what people truly want. It's "how do you do, fellow kids?" but to everyone on Earth instead.
Rich people are 1% smart, 99% clueless and moronic. Why actually know anything when you can pay someone else to know how the world works for you? Except you don't even do that because why pay anyone anything, just think you know what people want and boom, free money !
It being 2D wouldn’t have fixed the problems with the story.
The limits were the talentless 2D animators they have left who lack the classical training or work ethic.
It's just a standard interview excuse. They don't want to say that 3D sells better than 2D.
>What happens in hand-drawn is that you have the incredible hand of the artist, but also limitations in what you could do on screen,” Lee explained. “What happened in CG is you'd have incredible, boundless opportunities, visually, that elevated it — even to the point for some — into realism
?si=ttPnb5WjEoqMQaWU&t=48
moot point
the answer is to realistically depict what doesn't exist
>disney: 2d has too many limitations
>also disney: pays animators to do actual pencil tests of the characters but then realizes they're too cheap to actually go through with making a 2d animated movie
Sauce on this clip?
>Wish pencil test
THIS. Where are the Twinkerbell pencil tests?!
>Free of all limitations of cel and hand-painted animation
>Make the most boring-looking Disney movie since The Good Dinosaur
They have no talent.
>limitations
Baby artist can't think with compositional reasoning and needs everything to make total sense in a 3-dimensional space. This is what happens when you encourage animators to only study 3D if they want a job. 3D is what has real limits. 2D can represent impossible things that a 3D software only wishes it could do. Things that leave a bigger artistic impact. I've worked in 3D and 2D, and the degree to which I had to break the 3D models to achieve a certain look with things like foreshortening, was ridiculous and more cumbersome than just drawing it directly. The only thing 3D is good for is if you need to animate something that would a normal human go insane by hand like individual grains of sand, complex machinery gearwork and the like. The industry made its bed so now sleep in it
> The only thing 3D is good for is if you need to animate something that would a normal human go insane by hand like individual grains of sand, complex machinery gearwork and the like
That, or something that needs to be moving very fast with changing perspectives while remaining on model. As much as people get mad about the use of CG in anime, anime CG mecha with complex or transforming designs are one of the best uses of the tool in the medium because doing it by hand would be incredibly limiting unless you had a nigh-infinite budget.
That said, I feel like a solid chunk of what drives corps like disney to do 3D over 2D is not the movie itself, but the tie-ins. Think of it this way: once your modeling team has rigged your main character in CG, you can reuse that model as many times as you want. While the cost benefit of this vs 2d is arguable in the context of a single film, once you start considering shit like commercials now it starts to make sense. Bringing on a team of artists to do a 4 second hand drawn clip of Elsa posing with the subway logo at the end of an add is expensive. Having a single junior animator do the same thing with an existing 3d model is the work of an afternoon.
I was talking to two of my black coworkers, one of whom is literally what you'd call a black disney princess type, and just got a fricking BBL.
They both aren't seeing Wish but both saw Barbie
Disney is completely fricking missing the mark.
Barbie is an established IP while Wish is new and risky. This is why Disney is so fricked on live action remakes, only pre-existing popular culture sells.
>so fricked
Focused
Disney's live action remakes are pretty fricked with how fast they've burned through all the popular movies.
Wish was many things "new and risky" aren't part of them
Nothing about Wish was risky.
Okay but no.
The opposite is true.
Disney made a boring, cookie cutter storybook movie with shitty fantasy themes and a generic black princess to pander. Which isn't risky.
Making a fricking massive movie with white female lead about a girls toy was actually the risky move.
Not just about a girls toy, but having an extremely weird a skewed vision that talked about the toys as freakish characters in their own world AND the cultural impact of what these toys mean to people at the same time, and how that idolized version of themselves can only exist when removed from real world sexism and blah blah blah... Barbie is The Lego Movie if it had teeth.
>Did you know Wish was going to be 2D, and then they didn't because 2D animators are actually unionized so would that mean actually spending money in the project?
Fixed it for you
They prefer CG because basically any brainlet can do it, rather than the incredible skill needed to be a traditional animator.
They don't want artists, they want cogs. They want every job to be at the level of a low-wage service job, with pay reflecting that.
Update: I sadly didn’t do any progress yesterday on the animatic but today, I know I will hit the 2 minute mark. I can see it be done by next week. Though sometimes I feel like I’m churning out frames and second guessing the art but oh well I guess.
Oh, cool, I was just asking about you in other thread!
:0 rly? What bread?
Archived.
It being 2D will literally not save its dogshit plot and boring characters with overused tropes