Do you think Monkey Wrench would lose some of its charm if Zeurel simplified the designs so he could keep the animation quality?
Do you think Monkey Wrench would lose some of its charm if Zeurel simplified the designs so he could keep the animation quality?
Simplified designs should be for when the characters are seen from far away
She needs breasts.
No. She's perfect. Flat is justice.
Reptiles lay eggs and don't nurse. No mammaries.
Okay, but I still like breasts.
Is that why you have them, lardass?
C'mon anon, we're talking anthros here.
I think we can allow for a few leeways regardless of whether or not they're sensible
Thinking like that is why nobody cares for this series.
If every non-human is going to just be humans with minor differences then there's no reason for them to exist and the entire cast should just be human.
b-but muh anime girls all have the same faces! I need to coom!
She already walks on two legs and talks, we're kind of past the point of her not being a completely accurate depiction of a lizard. Personally I don't beat off to Zoobooks but you do you.
Right, so Tom and Jerry may as well just be two generic anime girls because real cats don't scream like middle aged men.
the difference is tom and jerry is actually good
monkey wrench is not
Furries are the ones who would want boobs slapped onto everything though.
If you like up lizard girls you'll find a good number of them with breasts. Even scalies want those chest bumps.
I don't care as long as the design's attractive in its own right. Hers isn't, so adding boobs would make a world of a difference.
>t. furry
Human-like breasts are actually that much more ridiculous, yes. It's like saying because all fantasy races are bipeds its fine to give them a peawiener tail because birds are bipeds. Human breasts are a human specific sexually selected trait that only really makes sense in context to humans and conveys no non-cosmetic benefits.
>Human-like breasts are actually that much more ridiculous, yes.
As long as it adds to the appeal, I'll take the 'ridiculous' route.
Of all the massive and obvious differences between her and an actual lizard, that's where you draw the line? That's where you lose your sense of immersion and can't buy into it? Weird but then again I am arguing about making another change to increase her appeal for a show that is struggling to be relevant or even remembered.
>Weird
Not really. A lot of changes arguably would happen via convergent evolution. Human breasts and faces though are things that are extremely specific to humans and practically require them to be directly related to us for it to develop. Bipedalism is shared in birds/dinosaurs for example, and while mammals all have breasts, only humans have the kind of breasts that permanently on display as big fat globes.
>and while mammals all have breasts, only humans have the kind of breasts that permanently on display as big fat globes.
Aren't Elephants kinda close enough, at least?
Agreed.
Mammals are good busty or flat anyways
You have enough breasts to work with, hombre.
How does that Skeleton have breasts?
A least half of those are more appealing than her to the point where even if one or two weren't drawn with any, it wouldn't matter regardless
Well, aside from the fact they're still stuck in that show, really
Nah she needs to be thiccer.
poorly animation with good writing = good shows
high quality animation with bad writing = bad shows
character designs wont change anything at this point. monkey wrench is just boring
>poorly animation with good writing = good shows
>high quality animation with bad writing = bad shows
Usually this is true, as exemplified by the actually good as shows, but the other way around can rarely work as well. For examples a lot of the 2d disney movies are worth seeing in spite of them having pretty mediocre writing.
>high quality animation with bad writing = bad shows
The only reason why so many mediocre ToonDisney shows are remembered is because of the good animation. TaleSpin and Chip n' Dale would be extremely boring and generic if it had PPG-tier animation.
Give one example of both
Neither talespin nor chip n' dale had good animation. They imitated the Golden Age, but it's not the sort of thing people would look at much with the sound off. It lacked the sort of creativity and visual effectiveness we can see today from various Indies. They are remembered for nostalgia and it is classist to pretend like it was about quality, I couldn't even afford ToonDisney as a kid
>animation isn’t important in animation
moron moment
>high quality animation with bad writing = bad shows
?
Literally most of the better known and the current fotm shounen all have terrible writing and yet they make tons of money.
What matters is having good choreographed fights, the plot being easy to follow and somewhat engaging, having good animation is a huge plus since a lot of people just drop shows if they have wonky animation.
Popular Shonen have good character writing and at least know emotion pretty well. The worldbuilding is really dumb but people get super invested in who's potentially going to have sex with who in those shows, along with other character melodrama.
>Popular Shonen have good character writing
I see you don't get it.
The characters have solid emotional consistency. You know when they're sad, mad, horny or whatever, and you know why. It's not necessarily complex and a lot of times the main character is some kind of chosen one, but the viewers empathize and want to see the little ninja boy pass his ninja exams, or whatever.
And when you look at Monkey Wrench, it's obviously trying to be "dumb fun", which is what Shonen is. And the problem is, I don't know what Shrike or Beebs are feeling most of the time. Don't know with the villains, either. Orochimaru is mad he got exiled, he wants to kill all leaf ninjas - got it. It's dumb but it tracks. Whereas Shrike wants to kill his paying customer at first glance because the guy was a little annoying and I don't get that. In the next episode, the villain betrays them because... why? I don't know why, there doesn't seem to be any pathos to it.
You get why the popular Shonen characters do what they do. It's not high art but that's the essence of good character writing, and the popular ones have good character writing. You can't use logical reasons like "money" to facilitate every conflict, you need pathos, too.
>I don't know what Shrike or Beebs are feeling most of the time
That sounds like a you (autism) problem. Shrike is a lazy cheapskate, he loves money, and is willing to take shortcuts to get it. Beebs is the straight man who takes his job more seriously and keeps Shrike in check. This is very easy to grasp.
> Shrike wants to kill his paying customer at first glance because the guy was a little annoying
Because there's a larger bounty for turning the customer in
>In the next episode, the villain betrays them because... why?
For money, not every villain (especially a one-off villain) needs an in-depth back story, most Shonen villains don't even have this.
You're conflating "clarity" with shallowness. So whenever Naruto or Black Star scream in your face that "I'm gunna be the best Ninja evar, buhleeve it!" for the 387th time, you think this is quality character writing. If a character expresses their traits in any other way, apparently this is a lack of clarity, because your smooth brain can't into nuance (despite this not even being a very nuanced show to begin with). I'm gonna guess you think the only character trait of Edward Elric is that he hates that he's short. God forbid you watch something like Samurai Champloo, and cry that you don't understand why Mugen is helping this girl that he totally hates.
I understand that Shrike and Beebs are trying to fit really basic, cookie-cutter character archetypes.
It's a two-man act. Beebes is supposed to be the straight man and Shrike's the foil but they FAIL AT IT because Beebs has no personality to assert or thwart, and all the attention goes on Shrike who seems not to want to do the show. There's not much chemistry between these characters and there's no pathos. Why are the working together, why are they even in this line of work, who even owns the ship?
>The bounty
He's wanted ALIVE. BY HIS MOTHER. If they can get the bounty by killing him that makes no sense either - there's no reason to want to kill the bird guy, emotional or otherwise, but Shrike says he wants to to establish he's the "firebrand" archetype or whatever. There's no pathos and barely any logos either.
And the villain in the second episode GOT EVERYTHING SHE WANTED. She even completes her plan and kills all the little guys. Why betray the duo? They didn't stop her or try to. Was it just to skip out on paying? If so, what's the deal there? Does she not have any money? Did she not have to put a down payment for the job? Why risk a fight and risk getting her ass kicked and arrested? There's no pathos for her to fight and the logos is, at best, "I wanted to save money", which is not super compelling and can only work as an anti-climax joke. The show is just a series of anti-climax jokes, though, it doesn't need to keep going back to that.
That’s why subversion is garbage. Everyone and there mothers thinks subversion means ridicule of the established and anti-climax. That’s why these episodes feel cucked: no proper climax finish but shit jokes instead. I’m very disappointed that Zeruel is going this way with his cartoon
Imagine a hot girl is sucking you off and then she stops to tell you you’re on a fricking prank show. Bitter disappointment and blue balls, and this show thinks that’s funny.
I hope these writers strike forever
Also, if you happen to actually be Zurel defending your own show, here's where you're mixed up:
You're looking at Naruto and you think his reason is the one he keeps yelling like it's his catchphrase. "I'm gonna be king ninja".
That's not Naruto's motive. Naruto's motive is that he's a moronic, obnoxious, insecure little frick and it's given him a complex. He wants to be the top ninja to prove to himself and everybody he's not the moron everyone treats him as, and THAT'S why people watch his show and read his manga. That's the part that's good character writing.
Shrike and Beebs don't have that. They don't have some underlying emotional reason for doing anything, they just take jobs and the jobs happen all around them or to them.
No, the designs are striking and unique enough that some simplification wouldn't hurt, but the greebling does add a lot of personality
Considering I have seen absolutely no monkey wrench, simplifing shit so he can get more out in front of me seems like a no brainer.
No, it'll just never change because you can't save bad writing. Its literally written as a generic kids cartoon that you see on Nick that gets dropped after 1 or 2 seasons.
Animationgays can't into good shows.
There's charm? Where? All I see is garbage that shouldn't have left the idea stage.
>gay dinosaur with robot arm
where's the appeal
I think she's meant to be a Hork-Bajir.
I wanna see that cougar bounty hunter with a fat ass again.
>trying to appeal to everyone while appealing to no one
many such cases.
Why are indie projects either shit set in hell or shit set in space
>the first two episodes have all this set up
>only to get cucked in the end by people smarter than them
What is with indie animation and this kind of cuckoldry? Do they think it would be too cheesy if the heroes succeed their mission at first?
>E1 cucked by Legend of Pipi
>E2 cucked by Lackaidasy
That’s not what I meant. Legend of Pipi sucked too, that shit made me angry.
I know what it is, these indie animators have been conditioned to believe subversion alone is good writing. That’s why Monkey Wrench feels so cucked and why I can’t stand Legend of Pipi
>autistic cat
>wants to save princess
>confuses dragon for princess
>nice and sweet happy ending
>EXCEPT HE LETS ALL THOSE OTHER PRINCESSES DIE
I get wanting to frick a dragon, but that’s just a villainous think to do leaving other people to die. Frick, what is their fricking problem with conventional morality?
>get you animation be blurred out because the gay bra porn artist you hire chose to make porn of one of the characters he made in your project on the same day your animation debuts
That actually happened, ESL anon? Which character?
>dark humor fans when something actually has dark humor
Maybe something like bluey is more your speed.
>episode 1 introduces a bunch of characters
>almost none of them are in episode 2
misstep
there, I fixed it. Now Zeurel can make the episodes 10 times faster then he was before
cute feet
I watched some of it and didn't hate what I saw but it is too cartoonish to be treated as scifi and not edgy enough to be a cartoon. It would have been much better if the bodysuit anthro chick with the skull mask was the main character instead of this horrible mumbling Jar Jar Binks thing.
They need to work on making the main characters actually interesting first.
I can't put my finger on why these cartoons feel so dull to me. The animation is objectively fantastic and the story and characters seem pretty interesting.
I think it has something to do with the audio? Like the background music doesn't really match tonally with the cartoon and the voice acting feels off somehow.
I think it needs some sort of longer plot to pull people in too. The episodic story worked well for episode 1 I think, but by episode 2 we need some overarching plot or motivations for the main characters other than "finish jobs".
Right looks closer to a classic Zeurel design.
Her colors are so butt ugly
Monkey Wrench would still be boring as shit either way. I could barely make it through episode 2 for some reason. Either I was low on sleep at the time, or it just dragged that much. Zeurel should try making shorter episodes tbh
>”I was bored while watching it”
>posts this weebbait garbage to go with it
I don’t even need to say anything, you’re already making a fool out of yourself
It was ok
That’s generous