Do you think that the JL and JLU cartoons were an overall negative for comics fandom?
I don't mean if they were good shows, I mean if their existence harmed how people think certain characters should be.
Do you think that the JL and JLU cartoons were an overall negative for comics fandom?
Inb4 that insecure Lanterngay starts b***hing.
Why were these five seconds of Hal Jordan better than five seasons of John Stewart?
Because you're biased
cringe
based
Because you're based
No. These shows are the best characterization for the League, movies, comics and shows should keep them in mind going forward.
Yeah, I think this is probably the one media that took some of the best ideas from different eras in comics.
By the way, can someone tell me why they decided to go for the Nigro Lantern?
Why wouldn't they? It gives more diversity to the cast and you don't really lose anything 'cause it's not like Hal Jordan is this unique brilliant character anyway.
Wasn't Hal dead at the time?
So was Barry but that didn't stop Timm from making Flash into an abomination that was both Wally and Barry.
Do you not fricking remember that Kyle Rayner and Hal Jordan were embroiled in the biggest fricking comic fan shitstorm this side of the X-Men?
What happened?
People decided Emerald Twilight was a PsyOp. If you're not in the know Emerald Twilight is where Hal Jordan, grief-stricken over the destruction of Coast City, his hometown, and goes a little bit crazy. First he sits in a fantasy projection he makes using his ring, right up to the point of talking to a projection of his dead dad... but runs out of power right before the old hardass tells Hal he loved him. Then he decides to go AWOL from the Green Lantern Corps and quickly decides he will have to use the power of the central power battery to actually re-create Coast City. Hal kills a good number of lanterns on the way to Oa, when attacking Oa, beats a conscripted Sinestro guarding the central battery, and absorbs it's entire power declaring himself "Parallax". Every other Green Lantern ring gets depowered and Hal kills all of the Guardians except for one of each: Ganthet and Jordan's ring Ganthet gives to Kyle.
Kyle, in the grand scheme, has frick all to do with Hal's death. But the reaction was that Hal Jordan, the gruff, All American, armed forces vet and clear conservative being ousted by Kyle Rayner, who's character was little more established than "young comic artist" was a political psyop and personal attack against anyone who was politically right-aligned, or thought similar to the way they thought Hal "properly" thought projecting endlessly on Kyle.
Hal Stans spent a literal decade doing the 1990s mail spam, camera bombing, did literal effigy burning of Kyle books, booked convention stalls adjacent from whatever DC employee they felt they could bully about it, and generally were the most annoying shits in the DC fandom demanding Hal be revived, face turned, and put back as the primary Green Lantern. Even kept it going for a bit after Rebirth revived Hal and absolved him for attempted unicide by trying to coerce DC into killing Kyle. Because any amount of Kyle was too much for him.
Look up Hal's Emerald Attack Team or HEAT.
Kek, all this and the fact that younger fans growing up with Kyle actually really like him because it made the artists put more work in than big green boxing gloves, so you had a bit of a generation war I guess.
You're overhyping what really happened. People hated Emerald Twilight because it was just another cheap stunt like Knightfall and Death of Superman, but the editorial didn't reverse it for a decade because they had low opinions of Green Lantern. HEAT didn't want Kyle to die they just wanted Hal and the GLC back because even in the 90s the premise of a space cop force was interesting to readers. The funny part is that HEAT was right; Kyle being solo didn't amount to much, the events constantly teased readers about the GLC, and sales declined. The minute Peter Tomasi brought Hal back and reunited the GLC, sales exploded and Green Lantern became one of DC's best runs of the 2000s.
Knightfall was good though. The gauntlet was great and so was Bane's triumph. The stuff afterwards not so much unless you love edge batman jvp
>Knightfall was good though.
The Vengence of Bane and Batman getting his back broken are the highlights, everything else ehhhh.
>The stuff afterwards not so much unless you love edge batman jvp
All that was Denny O'Neil making a strawman argument about how a Batman who kills is a bad idea.
I'm not going to pretend most of JVP's run was great or anything but the Joker in Hollywood arc was legit GOAT material
The main problem is that it went for way too long, and to add insult to injury, then they wienerteased us with Dickbats just to have Bruce come back after a handful of issues.
Yeah, for the longest time reading it in trade form you got Knightfall parts one and two and then it immediately skipped to KnightsEnd. KnightQuest was eight months when it should have been half that. Dickbats only lasting three months was the exact amount of time it needed, Bruce-as-Batman had been missing for too long.
>HEAT didn't want Kyle to die
I find it hilarious that this is the first thing you chose to dispute. As if you can ever get 3 angry comic nerds together without someone calling for a death. I never knew any HEAT members with anything but contempt for Kyle. Protip if you have to put a Q&A on your group website saying "We are officially indifferent" and "We only share our positive opinions in inoffensive ways" you're not meeting those squad goals.
And for the rest I'm saying they were right or wrong. I'm saying they were fricking obnoxious.
How pathetic. You, not HEAT.
You’re a homosexual, you distort history you know you suit your agenda. Honestly might even be that homosexual Ron Marz himself.
They wanted a black guys. It's that simple, and it wasn't a bad thing. It wouldn't have been Hal anyway since it was Kyle with Hal's origin who showed up in Superman.
It's the same reason they chose Hawkgirl instead of Hawkman - they wanted a more diverse group of characters to work with.
he's a decent foil for wally instead of Hal
>By the way, can someone tell me why they decided to go for the Nigro Lantern?
Sure.
>Excerpts from the Justice League Panel at the 2001 San Diego Comic Con:
>Bruce Timm: He’s the most controversial character so far from what we’ve been gathering on the Internet. When the show’s lineup was first announced, there were a lot of people saying, “Why aren’t they using Hal Jordan? No, it’s got to be Guy Gardner. No, it’s got to be Kyle Rayner.” Obviously, we picked the wrong one, but the reason we did choose John Stewart are various—I think they’re all valid. Right off the bat, I’ll just say it: you know we did need ethnic diversity in the Justice League. We felt that the show is going to be seen worldwide and I think having a member of the Justice League who is not just “Mr. White Bread” is a good thing.
>nigro
Trying too hard. You sound like you're fricking 60
Why is it that these 90's and early 2000's cartoons are the best characterization of any super hero?
Marvel, DC, shit like He-man, all that. It was just fricking years of pure kino.
Anime boom meant there was a period of time where the better western products tried to compensate with better writing and higher production values, since they couldn't compete with Lost Decade Japan in terms of being cheaper toy commercials.
It’s not that they’re the best, it’s that it’s literally all we have because the companies that licensed them off never attempted it again.
Look at any Creeper or Question thread and tell me that's not the case.
No. People take on those characterizations because the show is better than most of the content with those characters.
Make something as good and people will accept those versions.
I don't know why you'd single out these shows when the problem is an issue with cape comics having multiple writers in general.
In a way, yes. While it did well to introduce a ton of people to comic staples, a lot of the shows original inclusions or interpretations cause people to have the wrong impression of characters and just flat out develop shit taste. The biggest culprit is creating an entire generation of BatWonder gays and reducing Wondy into one of Batman’s groupies. And in general all the wanking he got coupled with Tower of Babel being released at around the same time, creating the Batgod/Preptime Batman meme that still persists.
Other smaller ones is thinking Wally is a clown and jokester 24/7, propping up John Stewart Lantern, planting the seeds(pun unintended) of Ivy being completely defined by Harley.
Called it
lanterngays deserve an automatic ban.
>reducing Wondy into one of Batman’s groupies
So, just some throwaway stuff that happens in like 4 episodes suddenly ruins everything.
People who think WW did nothing but that are the same who think the whole Batgod is a Bruce Timm thing when he barely shows up in Unlimited and most of the times does frick all.
That Lanternhomosexual is so fricked in head. I'm starting to think he's a legitimate troll with serious mental issues. The internet is always attracting these overly negative victimizing pieces of shits.
They're throwaway stuff that people make a bigger deal out of.
Mental illness
>They're throwaway stuff that people make a bigger deal out of.
Touch grass. There's more to life than shitposting and crying online.
Why are you in this thread? Did you not read the topic, homosexual? No one here is angry but you.
You need to chill out and take a break from the internet.
That's some top tier projecting you're doing.
Trying to project your projection onto me doesn't mean much.
You might need a few more.
Take your meds.
Why does Wonderwoman expose so much skin? Look at Batman. All that's exposed is half his face.
ironically it is because of feminism.
nah
Would be nice of every other writer was not so focused on making comic JLA into the cartoon JLA.
people don't read comics so no.
I know there's was the 1989 Batman and the Batman Animated Series but I feel like JL and JLU is what really pushed Batman into being super overrated and overused. They really made Batman have the answer for literally everything. Making the other Justice League members look dumb by comparison. Wonder Woman's unrequited romance with him doesn't help either.
And speaking of Wonder Woman this show did little if anything interesting with her character. She's one of the Big 3 and yet she's shoehorned in since she didn't show up in any of the Batman or Superman shows (even though both Flash and Gl showed up in Superman) and half her dialogue is just flirting with Batman.
On an unrelated note do you think Bruce Timm ever regrets creating Harley Quinn?
>JL and JLU is what really pushed Batman into being super overrated and overused. They really made Batman have the answer for literally everything. Making the other Justice League members look dumb by comparison. Wonder Woman's unrequited romance with him doesn't help either.
You haven't watched the show, haven't you? He was nowhere to be seen for most of JLU. And when he did, he'd usually just be at the computer and shit like that.
Idiots on the internet. Just ignore them.
He didn’t.
That what happens when you lose touch of reality. You start seeing things that never happened or wasn’t there.
The Lanterngay is back samegayging.
>Wonder Woman's unrequited romance with him doesn't help either.
They both were attracted to each other but it was a mutual decision not to pursue it because they both acknowledged that it wouldn't work out.
I'd say the problems with JLU's Wonder Woman go deeper than that. Her mythos were the ones Timm and co seemed to genuinely despise, to the point where her first two spotlights were about 1.) Being banished from it forever, and 2.) Learning retroactively that her culture produced a genocidal nutcase.
This wouldn't have been a fatal problem, except the show doesn't give her any kind of life or rapport with anyone outside Batman. What does she do in her downtime? Where does she live? Does she even have a civilian ID?
>What does she do in her downtime? Where does she live? Does she even have a civilian ID?
Do they do any of that with anyone else in the JL show? I mean, Batman and Superman had their own shows but I can't remember them going in that direction withGL or Flash either.
The Christmas episode was all about downtime for everyone (except Batman and WW). And Flash and GL at least had their civilian lives sprinkled around their spotlight episodes (they even brought in Metamorpho as a personal friend of GL's).
In the OG series you see GL going through his old neighborhood in the first of the Manhunter episodes.
Not all that different from getting a couple of Amazon Island episodes then.
The biggest difference would be
which isn't that big of a difference anyway.
Yeah there’s definitely not a lot of downtime given that it’s a kids adventure show with a big ensemble cast (which grows exponentially in the second series), but the big 7 at least got some stuff sprinkled in where your imagination fills in the blanks. Honestly I think Wonder Woman makes out fine, it’s Hawkgirl who suffers from being an alien and having no real roots (Superman doesn’t count he grew up in Smallvillevand J’onnz’s big character thing is his isolation).
The problem is that Bruce Timm is just plain weird about women. The more influence he gets over a story, the more that female characters end up being sidelined as simple eye candy.
>The more influence he gets over a story, the more that female characters end up being sidelined as simple eye candy.
Was Batgrill in the 60s show as bad as Timm's version?
If anything, Batgirl was the one sidelining Batman. Half the fun of the show was seeing him and Robin deduce the villain's schemes in their almost-troll logic, but because Season 3 had a cut budget and thus they couldn't do multi-parters anymore, Batgirl always ended up being the Deus Ex Machina so that they could wrap the episode up in one show.
>Half the fun of the show was seeing him and Robin deduce the villain's schemes in their almost-troll logic,
Please tell me Batman and Robin were trolling
>make the best version of many characters
>some dorks on the internet complain your version is too influential and ruined things
What the frick are you talking about, should they just not try to do cool takes on characters? Do you want your shit to be purposely mediocre? Feige, is that you?
Cartoon only gays where the movie only gays of their time.
try in english next time you embarrassing moron
He said not using an ounce of punctuation.
I'll start using punctuation once this brown moron learns basic english
There was nothing in that sentence that was anything but English. You're a moron.
he writes like a moron, moron should've stayed in school longer
It flanderized a lot of DC heroes so they fit into a team mold. I grew up on the DCAU but the more I read comics the more I came to hated it. A lot of characters and concepts are reduced for plot convenience which kills my suspension of belief.
3 of my favorite characters were portrayed fine. Well, superman had to be weak and strong at the same but overall, the other two were fine.