Aside from Data he is probably the most complex character on the show and is given more back story than anyone else.
Apart from the early pain stick episode nearly every single Worf-centered episode after is an absolute banger.
The only time I found Alexander "annoying" was the "Higher the fewer." episode and that episode wasn't very good anyway.
The character was meant to be a bit of a twerp. I actually enjoyed the dynamic of Worf trying to handle a little brat and when they would have understandings as father and son were beautiful moments.
This is ridiculous, all of the complexity comes from the Klingon background, not Worf. He's just used a vessel to explain more about Klingon culture, not about himself.
Klingons are the most boring race in TNG imo so Worf eps are the fricking worst for me
Are you crazy?
Worf thinking his father was coward, and then the truth, and then bearing the burden of that anyway for the sake of the Klingon Empire.
Worf reconnecting with his old love, having a child, losing her, and eventually being open to the idea of a relationship with Deanna.
Worf being an orphan removed from Klingon culture and surrounding his life with the "idea" of Klingon culture only to be faced with that fact that other Klingons don't actually act anything like how he has perceived Klingons to be.
Nearly falling in love with a Klingon-Romulan lady even though he is racist to Romulans and realizing fault in his old hatred and that they can live together so he lies to his captain about the prison camp to protect the haven those people have created.
Riker "Your outmanned, your outgunned, what have you got?"
Worf "Guile."
Worf recommending old computers for the Romulans to use to Riker as a plan and Riker agreeing with Worf's plans and Worf pausing and saying "Thank you" for someone finally agreeing with one of his plans.
I could go on and on there are so many moments that have nothing to do with "Klingon background" and are purely from Worf himself.
Sums up all of that 'character development' anon. He is the least developed crew member, which is saying something. Even Ro had more nuance, and that's saying something
>This is ridiculous, all of the complexity comes from the Klingon background, not Worf.
>Kill him! It is our way, brother! >...I know. But it is not MY way.
You get BTFO at every turn, it's amazing.
Also even if it was a "use Enterprise crew as standins to serve a bottle story" episode, Worf being recruited as the easily-manipulable goosestepper in the Drumhead, and then expressing his distress at the end at how easily he was fooled was a kino moment.
Worf's complexity comes from being raised as an outsider Klingon who developed an idolized vision of his own culture. When the average Klingon is a Black person who is honorable in name/ceremony only.
this is flat out bullshit. Worfs entire deal is that he is a complete weeaboo shit for his own culture, and then he finds out no Klingon actually acts like that, but instead of becoming depressed and lost he doubles down even harder on MUH HONOR out of pure spite. Thats the most compelling part of TNG
And even then he sees his Jesus figure right in the eye, recognizes him as a fraud, and STILL chooses faith. Worf is great and he is very complex if you actually look at him.
Like in the S1 ep with the Klingon terrorists.
When they let the kid go, Tasha is like "I thought we had a situation there"
And Worfs simple "Oh?" says more than a picture.
I liked Worf because his interactions gave a lot of insight to the chain and command and ship protocol. Favorite episode in this context would be Conundrum where everyone gets alzheimers.
Some anon posted an interesting opinion on here once that really adds a lot more depth to any Worf/Klingon episode. It basically goes that since Worf was raised by human parents for most of his life, what he knows about Klingon culture is secondhand. He's reading and learning about Klingon IDEALS not the day-to-day lived experience of being Klingon. He's essentially a Klingaboo. We all know the disgust and scornful amusement that the Japanese have for neckbeards who watch nothing but anime and then travel to Japan in a kimono with a katana.
People throw a lot of criticism at some eps of TNG and DS9 for having Klingons talk a lot of shit about honour but then being weaselly and conniving enough to rival Ferengi (who they also talk a lot of shit about). Like that episode where its found that Worf's dad wasn't actually a trator but instead it was the patriarch of the Duras house but it's all suppressed while Worf rants about honour. This theory made it all make sense to me, they're just paying lipservice to cultural ideals. Of course Chancellor Gowron is always going on about honour and strength but is a backstabbing rat. He's a politician! He wouldn't be successful without being a rat and also appealing to the Klingon equivalent of american flyover states. They're fricking bemused and faintly embarassed by this autist rambling about honour and truth while they're just playing the same political games as everyone else. Of course they can't do anything to frick over one of the most economically powerful house in the mpire they have their own standing and also keeping the whole system running to consider.
Anyway, apologies if this post was kinda rambling. Original "worfaboo" poster explained it a lot more eloquently and it gave me another layer of enjoyment to TNG and DS9.
Is it not obvious to everyone that Worf is the quintessential MUH HERITAGE character?
Maybe that is why some people don't like him, because they're the same kind of gays.
Well because traditionally Star Trek was extremely planet of the hats-y. You meet one guy from an alien race in an episode, thats basically how the entire race acts. I mean hell, Vulcan is basically a planet full of Spock until Enterprise shook up some stuff right? Worf was the token alien like Spock and Trek audiences have been conditioned to view one individual as representative of the race.
Lol, while I was typing out my long autistic post while this anon
Are you crazy?
Worf thinking his father was coward, and then the truth, and then bearing the burden of that anyway for the sake of the Klingon Empire.
Worf reconnecting with his old love, having a child, losing her, and eventually being open to the idea of a relationship with Deanna.
Worf being an orphan removed from Klingon culture and surrounding his life with the "idea" of Klingon culture only to be faced with that fact that other Klingons don't actually act anything like how he has perceived Klingons to be.
Nearly falling in love with a Klingon-Romulan lady even though he is racist to Romulans and realizing fault in his old hatred and that they can live together so he lies to his captain about the prison camp to protect the haven those people have created.
Riker "Your outmanned, your outgunned, what have you got?"
Worf "Guile."
Worf recommending old computers for the Romulans to use to Riker as a plan and Riker agreeing with Worf's plans and Worf pausing and saying "Thank you" for someone finally agreeing with one of his plans.
I could go on and on there are so many moments that have nothing to do with "Klingon background" and are purely from Worf himself.
I also read that post and it completely changed my mind on Worf. Data and Worf are two sides of the autism coin in my mind.
Worf is the rigid thinking and black and white world view which dislikes people and their messiness. Data is the incomprehension of human behaviour and desire to know more about it so they can become more human. And then Barclay is the hypochondriac autistic who retreats to his fantasy world to cope and model interactions with others.
Its super simple and a very basic story premise, and its a bit deeper than what you've said, and it SHOCKS me that everyone still acts this way about Worf.
The point is that Worf is the ideal Klingon, and that's why they hate him.
Worf was raised away from the corrupting Klingon Empire, and based his understanding of Klingon culture on the pure Klingon philosophies that they're supposed to adhere to.
Worf is a mirror that shames everyone else from the Klingon empire who looks at him. He is the best of them and he wasn't even raised by them. The ideals they pay mere lip service to, he lives by 100%.
I feel like it's a little more nuanced. Since Worf was not exposed to Klingon culture from an early age and instead just aspired to the ideals and tenets of Klingon philosophy, and privately trained with their weapons, he's more of a purist when compared to most ordinary Klingons, especially high-ranking ones who tend to be very corrupt. That's why a lot of Klingons respect his judgement.
DS9 Worf already wasn't great but Dax was just awful they never knew what to do with that character and Klingon fanboy wife wasn't a good place to land on
Funnily enough, one of the best Worf/Klingon scenes in the entire show is Ezri Dax talking about how she isn't a blinded Klingaboo like Jazia was
I still like how every time Dax was talking shit about fighting with a bat'leth, she always lost miserably in a one-on-one duel. Even if it was a different actor, she always stuck out during a Klingon episode because I couldn't take her seriously as a fellow warrior.
Worf gets a lot better in the later seasons. Its weird seeing these comments about how boring he is and tbh it feels like people simply repeating rlm's comments on the guy. His whole samurai culture aspect is interesting and good stuff.
Worf really comes into his own in ds9 though. TNG does a lot to make other characters come across as being smarter at worf's expense, same with showcasing how strong someone is, by having worf job to them, that shit slows down later seasons of tng and completely stops in ds9
Worf has two purposes >to job and get his ass kicked so the audience knows how strong an alien is
or >to be stupidly aggressive to show how reasoned and restrained the rest of the crew is
Name one episode of tng where he grew as a character.
When he killed another klingon it was Picard that grew.
His cute kid was ignored as every other plot point.
They don't get it. They're DS9 gays and >muh serial zoomers who think these characters grow when TNG was intentionally written to have very limited character growth. Many characters don't change much at all beyond the superficial like getting married or promoted.
Worf had a purpose in the ensemble dynamic and that doesn't change throughout TNG.
>The OP was about TNG.
Incorrect. Show me where it says "TNG only" in the OP. The character exists across both series, not only was it at no point stated that only the TNG iteration could be discussed, but even if it had, I am under no obligation to restrict myself to such arbitrariness.
I have disregarded the rest of your post, as it is clear you are now simply engaging in some tribal kneejerk war to "win" an anonymous e-fight. Your opinions on the complexity and usage of Worf's character have been found lacking, and adequately dissected by numerous posters in this thread, ergo this is no further need to engage in any petty bickering because you disliked the revelation of your own ignorance.
>this is a DS9 thread because it didn't say it wasn't a DS9 thread
OP wanted to know when Worf "gets interesting" and posted a TNG image. I gave a substantive reply for why that doesn't really happen in the context of the show he posted. If you want to post about DS9 that's your business but don't start acting like anons who limit it to the scope of OP are wrong.
>They don't get it. They're DS9 gays and >muh serial zoomers
Imagine, just imagine, posting like this and thinking you'll ever have an intelligent adult opinion. We're discussing Star Trek anon, not your inane buzzwords and tribalism and namecalling.
Basically you do a fantastic job of undermining your own "opinions" (if they can be called such) by acting like an ignorant child.
10 months ago
Anonymous
TNG was not setup for character growth. Picard murdered thousands and had Borg parts in his brain and was back to "normal" in a 3-episode span. What we think of "character growth" is more the writers and the actors themselves establishing those characters over time. But it's not the same as what people think of as growth arcs from serialized shows.
>various coping noises
cope
10 months ago
Anonymous
>cope
He's right, you moron kek
10 months ago
Anonymous
>He's right, you moron kek
No you're not. And this is the part where you desperately save face.
TNG really had two Worfs. When he's the main character of the episode, he's an honor-driven and proud, yet wise warrior. When he's a supporting character, he's the guy who thinks every other nebula or strange reading is a romulan trap to be dealt with by firing photon torpedos
>When he's a supporting character, he's the guy who thinks every other nebula or strange reading is a romulan trap to be dealt with by firing photon torpedos
It's a function of him being a near universal jobber as a supporting character. He exists allow the other characters to perform in a certain way that the story requires. This of course barring the Klingon shit that Ronald D Moore was supposed to be doing, but that's more a general Klingon thing. That's almost in an of itself not even a Worf thing because he's a stranger to it in many ways.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>this is the part where you desperately save face >anonymous board >wasn't me you were originally talking to
Sorry to disappoint schizo, but you're moronic
10 months ago
Anonymous
>attempts to save face with post thus proving the point
10 months ago
Anonymous
lol This is just sad, man. Sorry you've got nothing deeper going on than schizophrenic technicalities.
Is my face saved yet though? I was trying so hard to save it
10 months ago
Anonymous
>TNG was not setup for character growth.
Truth. That's why Babylon 5 stole my affection. But character GROWTH is not trombones, poker, or prune juice. I get the whole syndication episodic formula, and a lot of TNG is comfy, but in All Good Things, young Data is shown not understanding metaphor, seven years later he's not questioning the crew on every metaphor, that's the best they could do? These characters are stagnant and only gained new hobbies and food preferences (ooooh chocolate! proto-plebbit!)
10 months ago
Anonymous
>But character GROWTH is not trombones, poker, or prune juice.
Yeah, that's why I was saying that it might technically satisfy OP's requirement for "interesting" but it's not really growth or what most people mean when they ask these kinds of questions in a modern context. If someone is annoyed with Worf's actual character role and complexity by S3 it doesn't get much better for the rest of TNG beyond the superficial and that goes for pretty much all the characters and it's on purpose. We get to meet everybody's mom or dad at some point. Neat, but they are who they are.
how exactly is data alive again?
>how exactly is data alive again?
I gathered from the people who enjoyed Picard S3 that it really didn't matter why so turn your brain off because the Enterprise D is also back and it does the Death Star trench run.
10 months ago
Anonymous
having the Ent-D back is stupid too
we're supposed to be in a time where the main shipyard was destroyed and they didn't have enough ships to save the romulans but geordi can can restore the enterprise D just to be a museum?
10 months ago
Anonymous
Just stealing the drive section from another ship is probably the most direct and simple solution I've heard, actually. It's everything else that's moronic... like he essentially restored it in his spare time under everyone's nose like it's a Trans Am and not the most complicated machine ever built by man.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Just stealing the drive section from another ship is probably the most direct and simple solution I've heard, actually. It's everything else that's moronic... like he essentially restored it in his spare time under everyone's nose like it's a Trans Am and not the most complicated machine ever built by man.
It's decades after the Romulan thing happened.
Geordi's a high level officer who formerly commanded the most important shipyards in the Federation and now the ship museum where all kinds of incredibly historic ships are present, I'm not seeing what's far fetched about him being able to obtain a retired Galaxy-class drive section that was missing a saucer. And it's a ship that was active at the same time as the D so it was something like 40 years old
10 months ago
Anonymous
Oh, my point wasn't that he couldn't make it happen. It's the idea that it's kept a secret from the rest of the crew, because they're all surprised. The reveal at the end of Star Trek IV was just a mothballed ship that got a change of lettering. It's shown as being a mess at the beginning of Star Trek V.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Most of them have no reason to know about it? Worf is the only person other than Geordi who actually stayed in Starfleet the entire 30 years since TNG and he moved to Starfleet Intelligence something like 10-15 years ago after he got the E-E blown up under his command.
Like I assume they'd know the saucer section was refloated, the background stuff in season 2 mentioned that. But the restoration and bolting a spare drive section onto it wouldn't be widely known since it wasn't even close to finished.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Guess i'm just drawing the usual naval analogy and most sailors are big into tradition and autism over their ships, but then again Starfleet just renames ships and fricks with uniforms every 5 years so maybe none of that applies
Not really given any attention, I think in the first season they mentioned even with the Data backup he was never viable as a individual and ended up failing.
Thats cold
10 months ago
Anonymous
The uniform shit it partly budgetary reasons, and partly aesthetic purposes. It makes much more sense for the movie uniforms and a few variations thereof to be the standard, but I fricking love the colored sweaters in OS.
10 months ago
Anonymous
My headcanon is that the "official" uniform is some kind of colored turtleneck and a jacket or vest that goes over it. You see this as a recurring theme going back to The Cage. The only version that doesn't use some variation of this is TMP and the first few seasons of TNG.
10 months ago
Anonymous
It's stupid, but it's a little annoying how the uniforms aren't standardized as much as they should be. Having them be a bit more practical and having the changes made between series make sense would've made it a bit more visually appealing to me.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Didn't realize Tuvok was such a fatass. Those baggy VOY uniforms hide a multitude of sins.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Didn't realize Tuvok was such a fatass. Those baggy VOY uniforms hide a multitude of sins.
10 months ago
Anonymous
The fact that he LS swapped it was a bit of a surprise.
I will name a dozen episodes that show his growth. You will counter by saying he stayed the same after that.
I will then point out any other character that has not shown growth and also stayed the same after.
Ultimately since the show is episodic no one has actual growth since the status quo is maintained from episode to episode so people who missed an episode that aired on tv aren't lost.
Name 3.
He stays the same.
He is a warrior.
That is all.
He even behaved like a 1 dimensional moron to his son.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Ethics - After Worf is ashamed by his son seeing him in a weakened state he lets his son watch him do his physical therapy and then lets his son help him walk and says "We will work together."
Also when Worf thinks he won't survive he calls Counselor Troi "Deanna" and asks her to be the godmother of his son.
The Outcast - Worf doesn't understand a species that has no gender and is bothered by it. When Riker goes to rescue his lover it is Worf who wants to accompany Riker on his secret mission saying "A warrior does not let a friend go into battle alone."
Family - When Worf is ashamed by being an exile of the Empire his parents say it may be because they are human but they will love him no matter what. Worf accepts their love and holds their hands staring lovingly back at them.
Birthright part 1 - Worf is upset to find out his father survived and let himself be captured prisoner. He wants to deny this and pretend his father is still dead. When confronted with Troi saying he is affraid to face this fact he has a conversation with Data about fathers and finds it in himself that he must deal with whatever has actually happened to his father.
Firstborn - When Worf meets his son from the future his son explains to Worf he never became the warrior he wanted him to be and became a man of peace instead. Worf says "What you have just told me is that my son has chosen his own path and nothing could make me more proud."
The list goes on. Shall I continue? This is bringing back so many wonderful Worf memories.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>>The list goes on. Shall I continue?
Try listing some shit that actually matters after the episodes themselves.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Worf makes love with Kalar and has a son multiple episodes later.
Worf eventually has his honor restored with the Klingon empire.
Multiple episodes building a relationship with Deanna. Picard living another lifetime was mentioned less than this. Only in one other episode.
At the end of the day the show is episodic so there is barely any continuity for any character. Your argument for Worf having little to no growth is the same reason for any of the characters because shows that had continuing story lines weren't even a thing in television at the time aside from Soap Operas.
I will name a dozen episodes that show his growth. You will counter by saying he stayed the same after that.
I will then point out any other character that has not shown growth and also stayed the same after.
Ultimately since the show is episodic no one has actual growth since the status quo is maintained from episode to episode so people who missed an episode that aired on tv aren't lost.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Worf makes love with Kalar and has a son multiple episodes later.
Zero character growth
>Worf eventually has his honor restored with the Klingon empire.
You'd have a toe hold to argue if you would have stopped with discomendation but unfortunately you argued against your point by showing how the whole thing goes full circle reset button and he doesn't grow after all
>Multiple episodes building a relationship with Deanna.
Cringe and doesn't change him at all. Not even a "guess human females werent too fragile after all" to which we see him nailing more bridge bunnies. Nada.
>Your argument for Worf having little to no growth is the same reason for any of the characters because shows that had continuing story lines weren't even a thing in television at the time aside from Soap Operas.
Thank you. Glad we agree.
10 months ago
Anonymous
So we do agree that none of the characters really show any growth due to its episodic nature. What point were you trying to make in this thread then?
10 months ago
Anonymous
That Worf doesn't "get interesting" because he doesn't really change.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Either name 2 other characters we learn more about than Worf or tell me what the point of the thread was to highlight a single character who has no growth when none of them do.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>having a child, forming new relationships, meeting new family members, learning about their past.
Still saying you have learned nothing about the character and they are just a warrior that gets beat up.
I have a feeling you are one of those people who only watch the show for the military lingo and to argue about ship classes. Do you happen to have autism?
10 months ago
Anonymous
>Still saying you have learned nothing about the character and they are just a warrior that gets beat up.
Learning something about the character isn't really the point. The writers add details to the lore all the time. If OP wants to find that stuff interesting then he should just keep watching. But the characters never really grow or change much at all on TNG and that's by design. It's that way on purpose for various reasons ranging from making it easier for various writers to write to allowing the episodes to be shown in any order for re-runs. It's based around the whole approach to writing episodic television.
Either name 2 other characters we learn more about than Worf or tell me what the point of the thread was to highlight a single character who has no growth when none of them do.
>Either name 2 other characters we learn more about than Worf
Again, it's not about "learning more about". It's about the characters growing/changing. You can find out he likes prune juice or what his favorite color is and it's not going to actually change things much. Actual growth/change isn't going to happen with Worf because it would disrupt his narrative purpose in the TNG ensemble dynamic and make the TNG writer's jobs harder than it already was given Gene's constraints.
FWIW, they did start to experiment with some characters during the last season and that is widely regarded as one of the worst seasons. For instance, Troi going for her Command merit badge or whatever is legitimate character growth. It's also cringe and probably responsible for the ship crashing into the fricking dirt in Generations. And her and Worf's relationship is arguably the least popular thing they did on the show. If you wanted to argue an example of growth I'd give you that one i'd be willing to concede it because it comes up in the finale, but it's so fricking awful I dunno if i'd claim it honestly.
10 months ago
Anonymous
I don't even know what we are discussing anymore. No characters on the show can actually grow so that they don't lose any audience who missed an episode.
Of the main cast Data, Worf, and Picard are the three characters we learn more about (ok not growth but still developed) than any other character.
10 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, pretty much. Data is literally a character who collects trinkets in place of "growth" and they all but have the character say "I collect these to remind me that I can't change". Worf has far less and is more a context for other characters or the Klingon lore itself to play off of. That's not a criticism, it's just the way it had to be. If you got back to S1 it's amazing how far he actually came since it wasn't even clear what his job was.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>This is bringing back so many wonderful Worf memories.
Yep. You make we want to go binge TNG while I continue to lament that we don't have DS9 in HD.
It gets worse, in Picard S1 Data dies but gives his android body to Picard whose organic body dies but the new android body is aged so it matches Picard's biological age and will die at the same time.
Soong loaded the backup data of Data, B4 and Lore that they had together into a single fleshbot body like Picard has, but it had been kept offline because any time they tried to bring it online Lore was dominant
When they're forced to unshackle Lore he absorbs all the data of the other two thinking it will make him the lone being to survive, but it ends up creating a new composite being that is mostly Data because all his good memories and experiences take priority
So technically, he's not really the original Data and says as much himself and he respects that the original died peacefully.
He's not schizo, the three personalities fully merge into one. Like there's basically a mind palace battle that Data loses against Lore, but instead of it creating Lore who can remember Data things, it creates Data with Lore quirks.
10 months ago
Anonymous
What about B4?
10 months ago
Anonymous
Not really given any attention, I think in the first season they mentioned even with the Data backup he was never viable as a individual and ended up failing.
Dang,you are correct but I wish you where not.
The show would be crap if he beat the shit out of every villian that showed up on the bridge.
Hello midwit that got everything he knows about Star Trek from RedLetterMedia's Rich Evans.
That oversimplification of Worf's character is something that only exists in the earlier seasons of TNG. He (and his usage within the episodes) grows throughout TNG and exponentially throughout DS9.
>deflection
I'm sorry anon, but if you're going to try to defend your ignorant, low-information midwit opinion, you're going to fail no matter how to try to contextualize it. You're better off just retreating and not saying dumb things about shows you haven't watched thoroughly.
I did not say that at all. I simply remarked that he is perfectly echoing the low-information opinion of a semi-famous low-information opinion holder, which he is, and which is something that occurs frequently here on Cinemaphile, and if you try to pretend it doesn't, you are being intentionally disingenuous.
and I simply pointed out that you're doing the opposite. You've clearly absorbed plenty of Rich Evans in order to know the opinions he holds and you have a weird hangup where you accuse people of blindly following him when things are unrelated.
It almost feels like... get ready... you're projecting that everyone else must also either worship or neglect Rich Evans' opinions on principle. But you're not actually that much of a schizo that you think anyone who discusses one of the biggest franchises of all time must have also learned everything they know from your favorite youtube channel? ...Right?
>buttblasted DS9 gay
The OP was about TNG. He gets his own episodes, especially after S2 because Michael Pilar was doing all the characters that way. That doesn't mean that Worf doesn't job less or act moronicly aggressive less. His purpose, narratively, remains the same and he doesn't get "fixed" until they needed to meme him to prop up shitty DS9 that didn't have nearly the ratings that TNG had. Cry more.
He's also clownshoes and Troi's double-dong dildo throught the later part of TNG but I spared you that dishonor. Don't make me regret that decision.
Either you have never watched the show, only seen clips on youtube, only watched Season 1, or are a sociopath/autist who is incapable of understanding the messages and concepts of the show.
His characterization and purpose is what it is. You don't get to change it just because you relate to him being an insufferable Klingaboo.
>The OP was about TNG.
Incorrect. Show me where it says "TNG only" in the OP. The character exists across both series, not only was it at no point stated that only the TNG iteration could be discussed, but even if it had, I am under no obligation to restrict myself to such arbitrariness.
I have disregarded the rest of your post, as it is clear you are now simply engaging in some tribal kneejerk war to "win" an anonymous e-fight. Your opinions on the complexity and usage of Worf's character have been found lacking, and adequately dissected by numerous posters in this thread, ergo this is no further need to engage in any petty bickering because you disliked the revelation of your own ignorance.
Either you have never watched the show, only seen clips on youtube, only watched Season 1, or are a sociopath/autist who is incapable of understanding the messages and concepts of the show.
I really like that scene where Worf gets dressed down by Data as acting captain. As "uncomfortable" as it is, it ends up not only being the correct action on Data's part, I think it goes a long way towards bolstering Worf's respect for him and his station. That strict hand is exactly what he needed.
Just watched the episode where he kills Gowran, then hold Gowans's eyes open and howls. I think the only other time that was done was early in TNG? I love the Klingon episodes.
TNG really had two Worfs. When he's the main character of the episode, he's an honor-driven and proud, yet wise warrior. When he's a supporting character, he's the guy who thinks every other nebula or strange reading is a romulan trap to be dealt with by firing photon torpedos
Of the several main cast members Worf is nearly tied or exceeds Data and Picard for having more episodes about his character than anyone else on the show.
No, he refused to challenge Gowron because he (wrongly) felt that loyalty outweighed duty. He was blinded by his disdain for politics and since he did not seek power he didn't want to seize it. Worf, however, having realized Gowron was a danger and having been given tacit blessing to "resolve" the matter was in a position to make the challenge. The challenge thus made, it was on Worf to fight it. Worf also did not seek political power, only wanting to straighten the shit out, so installed Martok. Your moronic headcanon will not alter these facts, so you can suck some ridges.
Worf developed over TNG but they completely erased it in DS9 and turned him into a grunting Klingon-weeb, including giving him a LARPer wife. It sucked.
He's the only one who isnt a moron, he would have fit in better with Kirk. Like the episode where Troi gets space raped and Worf is the only one who suggests she abort it.
>Like the episode where Troi gets space raped and Worf is the only one who suggests she abort it.
He was just thinking about her holes and folds, not wanting her beef to get played out with child birth because he knew he was gonna swoop in later on after Riker got fat and depressed enough.
Worf has many fun adventures >murders some trusting friends of his >murders his brother >gets his baby mama killed >wants to commit suicide after getting hit by a barrel >abandons his son >betrays his own people >hates the leader of his own people >verbally abuses his adoptive parents >assaults nearly every crew member at one point or another >always wants to open fire on unknown vessels >jobs instantly to anyone who can sorta fight
I never saw him steal anything or stomp the head of a guy he suckerpunched so no. He is just violent and pretty old fashioned. Viking-Samurai or some shit like that
He was basically saving himself for the crew's safety's sake in TNG, and only stuck his dick in Klingon pussy. He decided to gape Troi and the troony tho.
I mean, she's not really a troony per se , but it always kinda rubbed me the wrong way how Dax has the memories of multiple dudes in her that influence her personality, and how it was in a dude before her. Also how Sisko always calls her old man.
I always looked at Worf in TNG as the voice of reason or Starfleet regulation. That everyone ignored in favor of doing the "moral/right" thing.
I don't know how intentional it was but I got the impression that Worf as a character was to inform the audience that you can't "book learn" your way through life or just blindly go by rules, regulations and traditions. No matter if it was Worf's perception of the regulations or Klingon honor/culture, he approached it all initially from a classroom perspective. This is what he read, this is what he learned from study. TNG, His service on the Enterprise, him actually meeting and interacting with Klingons gradually taught him the reality of things or gave him life experience.
There's a chance he could never walk again. Maybe we should just let him kill himself in front of his own kid
No.
His best fren has to kill him.
It is the only honorable way.
Honorable demands that your only friend cries,in front of your child,as he kills you.
If you saw how Alexander turns out, maybe it would have been for the best.
Not only did they bring back Worf episodes for DS9 but they also brought back fricking Alexander episodes.
imagine being crippled by and empty barrel
that barrel had NO HONOR
I disagree
Aside from Data he is probably the most complex character on the show and is given more back story than anyone else.
Apart from the early pain stick episode nearly every single Worf-centered episode after is an absolute banger.
Alexander episodes are not bangers sir, that character almost ruined the good Worf episodes by proxy
The only time I found Alexander "annoying" was the "Higher the fewer." episode and that episode wasn't very good anyway.
The character was meant to be a bit of a twerp. I actually enjoyed the dynamic of Worf trying to handle a little brat and when they would have understandings as father and son were beautiful moments.
bump
This is ridiculous, all of the complexity comes from the Klingon background, not Worf. He's just used a vessel to explain more about Klingon culture, not about himself.
Klingons are the most boring race in TNG imo so Worf eps are the fricking worst for me
Are you crazy?
Worf thinking his father was coward, and then the truth, and then bearing the burden of that anyway for the sake of the Klingon Empire.
Worf reconnecting with his old love, having a child, losing her, and eventually being open to the idea of a relationship with Deanna.
Worf being an orphan removed from Klingon culture and surrounding his life with the "idea" of Klingon culture only to be faced with that fact that other Klingons don't actually act anything like how he has perceived Klingons to be.
Nearly falling in love with a Klingon-Romulan lady even though he is racist to Romulans and realizing fault in his old hatred and that they can live together so he lies to his captain about the prison camp to protect the haven those people have created.
Riker "Your outmanned, your outgunned, what have you got?"
Worf "Guile."
Worf recommending old computers for the Romulans to use to Riker as a plan and Riker agreeing with Worf's plans and Worf pausing and saying "Thank you" for someone finally agreeing with one of his plans.
I could go on and on there are so many moments that have nothing to do with "Klingon background" and are purely from Worf himself.
>Muh honor
Sums up all of that 'character development' anon. He is the least developed crew member, which is saying something. Even Ro had more nuance, and that's saying something
You're a disingenuous homosexual if you think Geordi LaForge had more character development than Worf.
"guile" was a top kino moment
Kino post.
Worf haters are literally low IQ brainlets.
Glory to you and your post.
Frick off. Explaining why Worf's parents are two fat slavic humans is complex on its own
Not that dude...
Maybe they say too much war and they wanted to adopt a war baby?
Life ain't simple,some people take chances and win.
>slavic
>humans
>This is ridiculous, all of the complexity comes from the Klingon background, not Worf.
>Kill him! It is our way, brother!
>...I know. But it is not MY way.
You get BTFO at every turn, it's amazing.
Also even if it was a "use Enterprise crew as standins to serve a bottle story" episode, Worf being recruited as the easily-manipulable goosestepper in the Drumhead, and then expressing his distress at the end at how easily he was fooled was a kino moment.
Worf's complexity comes from being raised as an outsider Klingon who developed an idolized vision of his own culture. When the average Klingon is a Black person who is honorable in name/ceremony only.
this is flat out bullshit. Worfs entire deal is that he is a complete weeaboo shit for his own culture, and then he finds out no Klingon actually acts like that, but instead of becoming depressed and lost he doubles down even harder on MUH HONOR out of pure spite. Thats the most compelling part of TNG
That's also why he became so insistent on Kahless ruling over the Empire, since he saw him as a true Klingon unlike any modern one.
And even then he sees his Jesus figure right in the eye, recognizes him as a fraud, and STILL chooses faith. Worf is great and he is very complex if you actually look at him.
Like in the S1 ep with the Klingon terrorists.
When they let the kid go, Tasha is like "I thought we had a situation there"
And Worfs simple "Oh?" says more than a picture.
>every single Worf-centered episode after is an absolute banger.
Check out THIS guy that fingers to the Worf & Lwaxana in a mud tub episode!
He's better over on DS9
Honestly no, for Worf-focused episodes it's always honor, dark sets and fighting.
For all other episodes, Worf is just comedic relief or there for fighting, that's it.
People who say Troy are the worst character are wrong, even she has SOME depth
>even she has SOME depth
Like what?
the ones between her legs?
They also use him to get flung into walls by protagonists to show the audience
>oh wow, this baddie is really tough!
Frick off, racist
I liked Worf because his interactions gave a lot of insight to the chain and command and ship protocol. Favorite episode in this context would be Conundrum where everyone gets alzheimers.
I like his logic of "I have a cool sash and no one else does, therefore..."
AHHHH HELP ME GEORDI
OH N-
>ahhh, barrel, how could you do this to me?
>how could you give your buddy Worf the ol' spicy back?
BONK
No, he's the character who gets beat up by the villi an of the week to show how strong he is.
Some anon posted an interesting opinion on here once that really adds a lot more depth to any Worf/Klingon episode. It basically goes that since Worf was raised by human parents for most of his life, what he knows about Klingon culture is secondhand. He's reading and learning about Klingon IDEALS not the day-to-day lived experience of being Klingon. He's essentially a Klingaboo. We all know the disgust and scornful amusement that the Japanese have for neckbeards who watch nothing but anime and then travel to Japan in a kimono with a katana.
People throw a lot of criticism at some eps of TNG and DS9 for having Klingons talk a lot of shit about honour but then being weaselly and conniving enough to rival Ferengi (who they also talk a lot of shit about). Like that episode where its found that Worf's dad wasn't actually a trator but instead it was the patriarch of the Duras house but it's all suppressed while Worf rants about honour. This theory made it all make sense to me, they're just paying lipservice to cultural ideals. Of course Chancellor Gowron is always going on about honour and strength but is a backstabbing rat. He's a politician! He wouldn't be successful without being a rat and also appealing to the Klingon equivalent of american flyover states. They're fricking bemused and faintly embarassed by this autist rambling about honour and truth while they're just playing the same political games as everyone else. Of course they can't do anything to frick over one of the most economically powerful house in the mpire they have their own standing and also keeping the whole system running to consider.
Anyway, apologies if this post was kinda rambling. Original "worfaboo" poster explained it a lot more eloquently and it gave me another layer of enjoyment to TNG and DS9.
Is it not obvious to everyone that Worf is the quintessential MUH HERITAGE character?
Maybe that is why some people don't like him, because they're the same kind of gays.
Well because traditionally Star Trek was extremely planet of the hats-y. You meet one guy from an alien race in an episode, thats basically how the entire race acts. I mean hell, Vulcan is basically a planet full of Spock until Enterprise shook up some stuff right? Worf was the token alien like Spock and Trek audiences have been conditioned to view one individual as representative of the race.
Spock has the same sort of thing going on as Worf. He's half human and acts super Vulcan to compensate.
Lol, while I was typing out my long autistic post while this anon
basically summarised it in a sentence.
I also read that post and it completely changed my mind on Worf. Data and Worf are two sides of the autism coin in my mind.
Worf is the rigid thinking and black and white world view which dislikes people and their messiness. Data is the incomprehension of human behaviour and desire to know more about it so they can become more human. And then Barclay is the hypochondriac autistic who retreats to his fantasy world to cope and model interactions with others.
Its super simple and a very basic story premise, and its a bit deeper than what you've said, and it SHOCKS me that everyone still acts this way about Worf.
The point is that Worf is the ideal Klingon, and that's why they hate him.
Worf was raised away from the corrupting Klingon Empire, and based his understanding of Klingon culture on the pure Klingon philosophies that they're supposed to adhere to.
Worf is a mirror that shames everyone else from the Klingon empire who looks at him. He is the best of them and he wasn't even raised by them. The ideals they pay mere lip service to, he lives by 100%.
>He's essentially a Klingaboo.
I thought that was the actual intent of the writers IIRC, as in, that's not even theory.
And speaking of Klingaboo, NOBODY does it more cringe than Dax.
I feel like it's a little more nuanced. Since Worf was not exposed to Klingon culture from an early age and instead just aspired to the ideals and tenets of Klingon philosophy, and privately trained with their weapons, he's more of a purist when compared to most ordinary Klingons, especially high-ranking ones who tend to be very corrupt. That's why a lot of Klingons respect his judgement.
DS9 Worf already wasn't great but Dax was just awful they never knew what to do with that character and Klingon fanboy wife wasn't a good place to land on
Funnily enough, one of the best Worf/Klingon scenes in the entire show is Ezri Dax talking about how she isn't a blinded Klingaboo like Jazia was
I still like how every time Dax was talking shit about fighting with a bat'leth, she always lost miserably in a one-on-one duel. Even if it was a different actor, she always stuck out during a Klingon episode because I couldn't take her seriously as a fellow warrior.
LOOK UPON THE FACE OF DEATH AND KNOW IT
frick you worf is amazing
Worf gets a lot better in the later seasons. Its weird seeing these comments about how boring he is and tbh it feels like people simply repeating rlm's comments on the guy. His whole samurai culture aspect is interesting and good stuff.
Worf really comes into his own in ds9 though. TNG does a lot to make other characters come across as being smarter at worf's expense, same with showcasing how strong someone is, by having worf job to them, that shit slows down later seasons of tng and completely stops in ds9
>that shit slows down later seasons of tng and completely stops in ds9
Worf has two purposes
>to job and get his ass kicked so the audience knows how strong an alien is
or
>to be stupidly aggressive to show how reasoned and restrained the rest of the crew is
Dang,you are correct but I wish you where not.
The show would be crap if he beat the shit out of every villian that showed up on the bridge.
>samegayging
You aren't correct, though.
Name one episode of tng where he grew as a character.
When he killed another klingon it was Picard that grew.
His cute kid was ignored as every other plot point.
They don't get it. They're DS9 gays and >muh serial zoomers who think these characters grow when TNG was intentionally written to have very limited character growth. Many characters don't change much at all beyond the superficial like getting married or promoted.
Worf had a purpose in the ensemble dynamic and that doesn't change throughout TNG.
>this is a DS9 thread because it didn't say it wasn't a DS9 thread
OP wanted to know when Worf "gets interesting" and posted a TNG image. I gave a substantive reply for why that doesn't really happen in the context of the show he posted. If you want to post about DS9 that's your business but don't start acting like anons who limit it to the scope of OP are wrong.
>They don't get it. They're DS9 gays and >muh serial zoomers
Imagine, just imagine, posting like this and thinking you'll ever have an intelligent adult opinion. We're discussing Star Trek anon, not your inane buzzwords and tribalism and namecalling.
Basically you do a fantastic job of undermining your own "opinions" (if they can be called such) by acting like an ignorant child.
TNG was not setup for character growth. Picard murdered thousands and had Borg parts in his brain and was back to "normal" in a 3-episode span. What we think of "character growth" is more the writers and the actors themselves establishing those characters over time. But it's not the same as what people think of as growth arcs from serialized shows.
>various coping noises
cope
>cope
He's right, you moron kek
>He's right, you moron kek
No you're not. And this is the part where you desperately save face.
>When he's a supporting character, he's the guy who thinks every other nebula or strange reading is a romulan trap to be dealt with by firing photon torpedos
It's a function of him being a near universal jobber as a supporting character. He exists allow the other characters to perform in a certain way that the story requires. This of course barring the Klingon shit that Ronald D Moore was supposed to be doing, but that's more a general Klingon thing. That's almost in an of itself not even a Worf thing because he's a stranger to it in many ways.
>this is the part where you desperately save face
>anonymous board
>wasn't me you were originally talking to
Sorry to disappoint schizo, but you're moronic
>attempts to save face with post thus proving the point
lol This is just sad, man. Sorry you've got nothing deeper going on than schizophrenic technicalities.
Is my face saved yet though? I was trying so hard to save it
>TNG was not setup for character growth.
Truth. That's why Babylon 5 stole my affection. But character GROWTH is not trombones, poker, or prune juice. I get the whole syndication episodic formula, and a lot of TNG is comfy, but in All Good Things, young Data is shown not understanding metaphor, seven years later he's not questioning the crew on every metaphor, that's the best they could do? These characters are stagnant and only gained new hobbies and food preferences (ooooh chocolate! proto-plebbit!)
>But character GROWTH is not trombones, poker, or prune juice.
Yeah, that's why I was saying that it might technically satisfy OP's requirement for "interesting" but it's not really growth or what most people mean when they ask these kinds of questions in a modern context. If someone is annoyed with Worf's actual character role and complexity by S3 it doesn't get much better for the rest of TNG beyond the superficial and that goes for pretty much all the characters and it's on purpose. We get to meet everybody's mom or dad at some point. Neat, but they are who they are.
>how exactly is data alive again?
I gathered from the people who enjoyed Picard S3 that it really didn't matter why so turn your brain off because the Enterprise D is also back and it does the Death Star trench run.
having the Ent-D back is stupid too
we're supposed to be in a time where the main shipyard was destroyed and they didn't have enough ships to save the romulans but geordi can can restore the enterprise D just to be a museum?
Just stealing the drive section from another ship is probably the most direct and simple solution I've heard, actually. It's everything else that's moronic... like he essentially restored it in his spare time under everyone's nose like it's a Trans Am and not the most complicated machine ever built by man.
It's decades after the Romulan thing happened.
Geordi's a high level officer who formerly commanded the most important shipyards in the Federation and now the ship museum where all kinds of incredibly historic ships are present, I'm not seeing what's far fetched about him being able to obtain a retired Galaxy-class drive section that was missing a saucer. And it's a ship that was active at the same time as the D so it was something like 40 years old
Oh, my point wasn't that he couldn't make it happen. It's the idea that it's kept a secret from the rest of the crew, because they're all surprised. The reveal at the end of Star Trek IV was just a mothballed ship that got a change of lettering. It's shown as being a mess at the beginning of Star Trek V.
Most of them have no reason to know about it? Worf is the only person other than Geordi who actually stayed in Starfleet the entire 30 years since TNG and he moved to Starfleet Intelligence something like 10-15 years ago after he got the E-E blown up under his command.
Like I assume they'd know the saucer section was refloated, the background stuff in season 2 mentioned that. But the restoration and bolting a spare drive section onto it wouldn't be widely known since it wasn't even close to finished.
Guess i'm just drawing the usual naval analogy and most sailors are big into tradition and autism over their ships, but then again Starfleet just renames ships and fricks with uniforms every 5 years so maybe none of that applies
Thats cold
The uniform shit it partly budgetary reasons, and partly aesthetic purposes. It makes much more sense for the movie uniforms and a few variations thereof to be the standard, but I fricking love the colored sweaters in OS.
My headcanon is that the "official" uniform is some kind of colored turtleneck and a jacket or vest that goes over it. You see this as a recurring theme going back to The Cage. The only version that doesn't use some variation of this is TMP and the first few seasons of TNG.
It's stupid, but it's a little annoying how the uniforms aren't standardized as much as they should be. Having them be a bit more practical and having the changes made between series make sense would've made it a bit more visually appealing to me.
Didn't realize Tuvok was such a fatass. Those baggy VOY uniforms hide a multitude of sins.
>Didn't realize Tuvok was such a fatass. Those baggy VOY uniforms hide a multitude of sins.
The fact that he LS swapped it was a bit of a surprise.
>Imagine, just imagine
I will name a dozen episodes that show his growth. You will counter by saying he stayed the same after that.
I will then point out any other character that has not shown growth and also stayed the same after.
Ultimately since the show is episodic no one has actual growth since the status quo is maintained from episode to episode so people who missed an episode that aired on tv aren't lost.
Name 3.
He stays the same.
He is a warrior.
That is all.
He even behaved like a 1 dimensional moron to his son.
Ethics - After Worf is ashamed by his son seeing him in a weakened state he lets his son watch him do his physical therapy and then lets his son help him walk and says "We will work together."
Also when Worf thinks he won't survive he calls Counselor Troi "Deanna" and asks her to be the godmother of his son.
The Outcast - Worf doesn't understand a species that has no gender and is bothered by it. When Riker goes to rescue his lover it is Worf who wants to accompany Riker on his secret mission saying "A warrior does not let a friend go into battle alone."
Family - When Worf is ashamed by being an exile of the Empire his parents say it may be because they are human but they will love him no matter what. Worf accepts their love and holds their hands staring lovingly back at them.
Birthright part 1 - Worf is upset to find out his father survived and let himself be captured prisoner. He wants to deny this and pretend his father is still dead. When confronted with Troi saying he is affraid to face this fact he has a conversation with Data about fathers and finds it in himself that he must deal with whatever has actually happened to his father.
Firstborn - When Worf meets his son from the future his son explains to Worf he never became the warrior he wanted him to be and became a man of peace instead. Worf says "What you have just told me is that my son has chosen his own path and nothing could make me more proud."
The list goes on. Shall I continue? This is bringing back so many wonderful Worf memories.
>>The list goes on. Shall I continue?
Try listing some shit that actually matters after the episodes themselves.
Worf makes love with Kalar and has a son multiple episodes later.
Worf eventually has his honor restored with the Klingon empire.
Multiple episodes building a relationship with Deanna. Picard living another lifetime was mentioned less than this. Only in one other episode.
At the end of the day the show is episodic so there is barely any continuity for any character. Your argument for Worf having little to no growth is the same reason for any of the characters because shows that had continuing story lines weren't even a thing in television at the time aside from Soap Operas.
>Worf makes love with Kalar and has a son multiple episodes later.
Zero character growth
>Worf eventually has his honor restored with the Klingon empire.
You'd have a toe hold to argue if you would have stopped with discomendation but unfortunately you argued against your point by showing how the whole thing goes full circle reset button and he doesn't grow after all
>Multiple episodes building a relationship with Deanna.
Cringe and doesn't change him at all. Not even a "guess human females werent too fragile after all" to which we see him nailing more bridge bunnies. Nada.
>Your argument for Worf having little to no growth is the same reason for any of the characters because shows that had continuing story lines weren't even a thing in television at the time aside from Soap Operas.
Thank you. Glad we agree.
So we do agree that none of the characters really show any growth due to its episodic nature. What point were you trying to make in this thread then?
That Worf doesn't "get interesting" because he doesn't really change.
Either name 2 other characters we learn more about than Worf or tell me what the point of the thread was to highlight a single character who has no growth when none of them do.
>having a child, forming new relationships, meeting new family members, learning about their past.
Still saying you have learned nothing about the character and they are just a warrior that gets beat up.
I have a feeling you are one of those people who only watch the show for the military lingo and to argue about ship classes. Do you happen to have autism?
>Still saying you have learned nothing about the character and they are just a warrior that gets beat up.
Learning something about the character isn't really the point. The writers add details to the lore all the time. If OP wants to find that stuff interesting then he should just keep watching. But the characters never really grow or change much at all on TNG and that's by design. It's that way on purpose for various reasons ranging from making it easier for various writers to write to allowing the episodes to be shown in any order for re-runs. It's based around the whole approach to writing episodic television.
>Either name 2 other characters we learn more about than Worf
Again, it's not about "learning more about". It's about the characters growing/changing. You can find out he likes prune juice or what his favorite color is and it's not going to actually change things much. Actual growth/change isn't going to happen with Worf because it would disrupt his narrative purpose in the TNG ensemble dynamic and make the TNG writer's jobs harder than it already was given Gene's constraints.
FWIW, they did start to experiment with some characters during the last season and that is widely regarded as one of the worst seasons. For instance, Troi going for her Command merit badge or whatever is legitimate character growth. It's also cringe and probably responsible for the ship crashing into the fricking dirt in Generations. And her and Worf's relationship is arguably the least popular thing they did on the show. If you wanted to argue an example of growth I'd give you that one i'd be willing to concede it because it comes up in the finale, but it's so fricking awful I dunno if i'd claim it honestly.
I don't even know what we are discussing anymore. No characters on the show can actually grow so that they don't lose any audience who missed an episode.
Of the main cast Data, Worf, and Picard are the three characters we learn more about (ok not growth but still developed) than any other character.
Yeah, pretty much. Data is literally a character who collects trinkets in place of "growth" and they all but have the character say "I collect these to remind me that I can't change". Worf has far less and is more a context for other characters or the Klingon lore itself to play off of. That's not a criticism, it's just the way it had to be. If you got back to S1 it's amazing how far he actually came since it wasn't even clear what his job was.
>This is bringing back so many wonderful Worf memories.
Yep. You make we want to go binge TNG while I continue to lament that we don't have DS9 in HD.
why is data old? makes no sense
I thought Data died when he saved picard in one of the movies.
Always back up your Data
It gets worse, in Picard S1 Data dies but gives his android body to Picard whose organic body dies but the new android body is aged so it matches Picard's biological age and will die at the same time.
>electronics and rubber never age in appearance
how exactly is data alive again?
Soong loaded the backup data of Data, B4 and Lore that they had together into a single fleshbot body like Picard has, but it had been kept offline because any time they tried to bring it online Lore was dominant
When they're forced to unshackle Lore he absorbs all the data of the other two thinking it will make him the lone being to survive, but it ends up creating a new composite being that is mostly Data because all his good memories and experiences take priority
So technically, he's not really the original Data and says as much himself and he respects that the original died peacefully.
>Data is a literal schizo now
Well, they let the chronically-malfunctioning robot serve for that many years. Might as well go with it.
He's not schizo, the three personalities fully merge into one. Like there's basically a mind palace battle that Data loses against Lore, but instead of it creating Lore who can remember Data things, it creates Data with Lore quirks.
What about B4?
Not really given any attention, I think in the first season they mentioned even with the Data backup he was never viable as a individual and ended up failing.
Hello midwit that got everything he knows about Star Trek from RedLetterMedia's Rich Evans.
That oversimplification of Worf's character is something that only exists in the earlier seasons of TNG. He (and his usage within the episodes) grows throughout TNG and exponentially throughout DS9.
I have never seen red letter media,you youtube gay.
>deflection
I'm sorry anon, but if you're going to try to defend your ignorant, low-information midwit opinion, you're going to fail no matter how to try to contextualize it. You're better off just retreating and not saying dumb things about shows you haven't watched thoroughly.
Its funny how you guys pretend agreeing with RLM is worse than blindly disagreeing with them
I did not say that at all. I simply remarked that he is perfectly echoing the low-information opinion of a semi-famous low-information opinion holder, which he is, and which is something that occurs frequently here on Cinemaphile, and if you try to pretend it doesn't, you are being intentionally disingenuous.
and I simply pointed out that you're doing the opposite. You've clearly absorbed plenty of Rich Evans in order to know the opinions he holds and you have a weird hangup where you accuse people of blindly following him when things are unrelated.
It almost feels like... get ready... you're projecting that everyone else must also either worship or neglect Rich Evans' opinions on principle. But you're not actually that much of a schizo that you think anyone who discusses one of the biggest franchises of all time must have also learned everything they know from your favorite youtube channel? ...Right?
>buttblasted DS9 gay
The OP was about TNG. He gets his own episodes, especially after S2 because Michael Pilar was doing all the characters that way. That doesn't mean that Worf doesn't job less or act moronicly aggressive less. His purpose, narratively, remains the same and he doesn't get "fixed" until they needed to meme him to prop up shitty DS9 that didn't have nearly the ratings that TNG had. Cry more.
He's also clownshoes and Troi's double-dong dildo throught the later part of TNG but I spared you that dishonor. Don't make me regret that decision.
His characterization and purpose is what it is. You don't get to change it just because you relate to him being an insufferable Klingaboo.
>The OP was about TNG.
Incorrect. Show me where it says "TNG only" in the OP. The character exists across both series, not only was it at no point stated that only the TNG iteration could be discussed, but even if it had, I am under no obligation to restrict myself to such arbitrariness.
I have disregarded the rest of your post, as it is clear you are now simply engaging in some tribal kneejerk war to "win" an anonymous e-fight. Your opinions on the complexity and usage of Worf's character have been found lacking, and adequately dissected by numerous posters in this thread, ergo this is no further need to engage in any petty bickering because you disliked the revelation of your own ignorance.
Either you have never watched the show, only seen clips on youtube, only watched Season 1, or are a sociopath/autist who is incapable of understanding the messages and concepts of the show.
a good worf episode is "Rightful Heir"
I really like that scene where Worf gets dressed down by Data as acting captain. As "uncomfortable" as it is, it ends up not only being the correct action on Data's part, I think it goes a long way towards bolstering Worf's respect for him and his station. That strict hand is exactly what he needed.
Here is a (you)
This is a picture of gummi bears with the starfleet insignia on there chest.
?t=116
If this isn't fricking awesome to you then Star Trek isn't for you.
Just watched the episode where he kills Gowran, then hold Gowans's eyes open and howls. I think the only other time that was done was early in TNG? I love the Klingon episodes.
He's just like me fr fr
TNG really had two Worfs. When he's the main character of the episode, he's an honor-driven and proud, yet wise warrior. When he's a supporting character, he's the guy who thinks every other nebula or strange reading is a romulan trap to be dealt with by firing photon torpedos
I didn't like him watching TNG at first. But when I rewatch episodes I've come around. Having seen DS9 has something to do with it I'm sure
Of the several main cast members Worf is nearly tied or exceeds Data and Picard for having more episodes about his character than anyone else on the show.
I don't know that DS9 episode where he joins a RETVRN tradcath cult that wants to blow up Risa is pretty funny.
He was inflamed with lust for Julian and lashed out in confusion
This is a travesty. Somewhere, a humble bus seat went unupholstered for this.
i can never forgive worf for installing the coward martok as chancellor. decades of honor thrown away for nothing
What is wrong with Martok? He seemed like a level headed, fair, and decent dude.
he refused to fight for himself. he is literally a coward.
No, he refused to challenge Gowron because he (wrongly) felt that loyalty outweighed duty. He was blinded by his disdain for politics and since he did not seek power he didn't want to seize it. Worf, however, having realized Gowron was a danger and having been given tacit blessing to "resolve" the matter was in a position to make the challenge. The challenge thus made, it was on Worf to fight it. Worf also did not seek political power, only wanting to straighten the shit out, so installed Martok. Your moronic headcanon will not alter these facts, so you can suck some ridges.
>REDDIT LE BAD
Ironically enough the ol GO BACK larp is even gayer than actually being a redditor kek
Sorry you're moronic anon
Please, go back.
Worf developed over TNG but they completely erased it in DS9 and turned him into a grunting Klingon-weeb, including giving him a LARPer wife. It sucked.
DS9 S04E01
If he actually didn't have any personality.. you would never post this. Ever. (that's just simple psychology101).
Qapla'!
He's the only one who isnt a moron, he would have fit in better with Kirk. Like the episode where Troi gets space raped and Worf is the only one who suggests she abort it.
>Like the episode where Troi gets space raped and Worf is the only one who suggests she abort it.
He was just thinking about her holes and folds, not wanting her beef to get played out with child birth because he knew he was gonna swoop in later on after Riker got fat and depressed enough.
Sucks for Riker to have to tap that after Worf was done with her.
Warfs relationship with his son ruins his entire time on the show.
Worf has his good moments.
>Q is turned human
>Q: awww mon capitan, what do i have to do to prove to you i'm mortal?
>Worf: DIE.
Worf has many fun adventures
>murders some trusting friends of his
>murders his brother
>gets his baby mama killed
>wants to commit suicide after getting hit by a barrel
>abandons his son
>betrays his own people
>hates the leader of his own people
>verbally abuses his adoptive parents
>assaults nearly every crew member at one point or another
>always wants to open fire on unknown vessels
>jobs instantly to anyone who can sorta fight
Was worf actually a Klingon or just black?
I never saw him steal anything or stomp the head of a guy he suckerpunched so no. He is just violent and pretty old fashioned. Viking-Samurai or some shit like that
Klingons are an analogy for blacks. Just like Ferengi are israelites.
>worf has a kid
>that means worf had SEX
how the frick
He was basically saving himself for the crew's safety's sake in TNG, and only stuck his dick in Klingon pussy. He decided to gape Troi and the troony tho.
troony ?
I mean, she's not really a troony per se , but it always kinda rubbed me the wrong way how Dax has the memories of multiple dudes in her that influence her personality, and how it was in a dude before her. Also how Sisko always calls her old man.
Even the goddamn robot had sex. It gets lonely in space.
He only gets more interesting when they move him to DS9. Though he kind of becomes a horrible father.
I always looked at Worf in TNG as the voice of reason or Starfleet regulation. That everyone ignored in favor of doing the "moral/right" thing.
I don't know how intentional it was but I got the impression that Worf as a character was to inform the audience that you can't "book learn" your way through life or just blindly go by rules, regulations and traditions. No matter if it was Worf's perception of the regulations or Klingon honor/culture, he approached it all initially from a classroom perspective. This is what he read, this is what he learned from study. TNG, His service on the Enterprise, him actually meeting and interacting with Klingons gradually taught him the reality of things or gave him life experience.