Don't mind me, just being way too right about everything for Disney to ever try making a movie out of.
Don't mind me, just being way too right about everything for Disney to ever try making a movie out of.
Don't mind me, just being way too right about everything for Disney to ever try making a movie out of.
starwarsgays will always be the biggest cuckolds in consoomer history besides gameofthronesgays
Kreia was too hard to understand for video games players so imagine tv/movie watcher trying to wrap their head around her.
Yeah, OP is a perfect example. This moron probably thinks Kreia's entire insane ideology just boiling down to becoming a generic sith lord was some concession to a rushed development and not the thing that makes KOTOR II actually good, lol.
just feed on the young spider person just create a monster nurture void just do the right things for the wrong reasons (dead person) i liked it
Me too. I really like Kreia as an antagonist who makes a strong but ultimately erroneous argument about the force. Reminds me of Mankar Camorran trying to argue that Mundus is a plane of oblivion tbh
It is. It's Lorkhan's.
She wasn’t, and that was the point. Your character had the liberty to tell her to frick off at every opportunity and she’d still ultimately call you the greatest she ever trained for thinking for yourself and overcoming her
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II is not just a bad video game, but it is a bad adaptation of the Star Wars lore
only redditors who jack off to New Vegas hype of this outdated slop game that wasn't even as good as the first Knights of the Old Republic
>muh grey morality, my moral ambiguity
fence-sitting spineless centrist horse shit, be a man
>be a man
>posts nature's trannies on an anonymous mongolese clam scraping forum
lmao. But the game is shit tho
Naw, KotoR 2 is better than the first one. More in depth classes, better companions, the ability to train new jedi, influencing companion alignment, more impactful decisions, and cooler set pieces. KotoR 1 does have the better story though.
>Naw, KotoR 2 is better than the first one.
God no. KotoR 2 is an absolute mess. It's incomplete, buggy, disjointed, and just all over the place. Maybe if they had more time and a bigger budget it would have been better but they didn't. It felt half finished at best.
the restored content mod fixes a lot of the problems
They both suck pretty much. They were everything wrong with crpgs. The constant pausing, the queued action economy. The dead, lifeless, Souless world's.
The only reason anyone talks about them is because Kotor 2 is part of Obsidians legacy and didn't care to be a good video game, but a milestone for discussion about star wars.
You can play without ever pausing, not that this is a valid criticism anyway. No idea what the frick "the queued action economy" is supposed to mean
>The dead, lifeless, Souless world's.
The worlds were generally quite well crafted, e.g. Manaan there's a ton of shit to do, people to talk to, dynamically changing quests and situations, and the atmosphere is pretty good. In fact that's probably one of the main strengths of those games is the unique feeling and 'soul' of each distinct world
Oh god, an autistic c(uck)rpg fan. Please frick off and stop posting
I wouldn't call myself a crpg fan, I was compelled to point out your superficial criticisms though
Hilarious. This isn't Cinemaphile Black person, this is Cinemaphile. We're discussing a video game character, not the mechanics.
Take your gay ass back to Cinemaphile. We're discussing Cinemaphile
If you think the point of moral quandary with the beggar is that you should fence sit and never pick a side, you're a moron who's just angry that Kreia asked you to rationalize your actions and act with conviction instead of just doing things because you think it's expected of your "side".
Apathy is death
The ending is very sloppy and was cut short or something along those lines. Someone else can post relevant details. It was on par with 1, with significant QoL changes. You can't top the twist of 1 as far as writing goes. Light side in both was EZ mode, specifically the stun droid/human power.
Frick you homosexual. KOTOR II is pure kino and better than any of the movies. Morality is for children (like you) and I just got done fricking your mother. Her screams will forever be etched in my mental wank bank and as I came I yelled “HEIL HITLER” as I choked her unconscious.
>redditors who jack off to New Vegas
Popular is... Le Bad !!!!
It's funny the contrarian hate new vegas gets. I admit the endless posting about it was getting out of hand but they're twice as insufferable.
>only redditors who jack off to New Vegas hype of this outdated slop game that wasn't even as good as the first Knights of the Old Republic
6 gorillion percent correct
Based post
>dude the force is a cycle
Frick off
>dude the force is a cycle
That part is correct though.
I like both games
>muh grey morality, my moral ambiguity
>fence-sitting spineless centrist horse shit, be a man
You fundamentally don't understand the game. It's LITERALLY the opposite of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcaAVUF1uU
>LucasArts will never be based again
It hurts bros
Tarantula for his faults, is the boundary marker for the beginning of the competency crisis in film & television-- both GOT & nuWars have holistically illiterate / 'post literate' writing and direction, and the fricking GARBAGE dialogue and it's exposition puppetry in those franchises are standard bearers of it.
Kennedy axing LucasArts immediately and shunting Battlefront and all Star Wars game IP licensing to fricking EA had to be painful for George-- he was always stating in interviews that he wanted to keep his people work going.
And what was she right about? Because she would frequently contradict herself, with Nar Shadaar being a good example. No matter your reaction with a beggar, helping ignoring or telling them to frick off, she'll b***h at you. "Apathy is death" and "empathy is death" is another. The only thing I can actually think of her being right about is the jedi council were dickheads, but that's nothing mind blowing.
>"Apathy is death"
>it's been two decades and people still think Kreia was the one who said this
I swear people are willfully moronic
Yeah, The tomb and those camouflage lizards are sith spirits.
>he doesn't know it was kreia projecting those visions into the exile in order to break their psyche, which is a reason why she refuses to walk around on korriban
fricking filtered
It was Ludo Kressh having a laugh
The whole thing with the beggar is that she's showing you that no matter what you do, there will be consequences. She isn't saying all options are wrong, she's saying you shoudn't act without first considering the situation and how it will affect the bigger picture. She just wants you to think about what you're doing.
Remeber, Kreia's whole thing is self-determination and freedom. Freedom from the force and freedom from the blind dogma of the Jedi and the Sith. "I'm a light side guy so I help the beggar" isn't good enough for her, she wants you to really examine what you're doing. If you can help by harming then you should do so, even if it goes against the Jedi teachings. That's what she's saying.
And the whole thing is undermined right at the end of the beggar sequence where if you tell her "I do it because it's my choice" and not "I'll think about what you said" you lose influence. Kreia just wants somebody who thinks the same way as her, not somebody who has chooses what she doesn't.
>There's no rep hit regardless of what you do unless you tell her to frick off
Wrong, she just gets pissier if you tell her to frick off instead of explaining your choice. You have to agree woth her in order to not take the influence hit.
>provably wrong
Than prove it. She knows those personal moments because they are well known and documented moments like the bridge charge. The part where Bastilla joins Malak is wrong on purpose to trigger the exile, the gang bang scene is her making you choose her over the other companions, and the end fight with "future" you is what kreia wants you to think you'll turn into. The entire game is about the PC being manipulated by Kreia, and it explicitly spells it out at the enclave on dantooine. Sion even tells the player to watch out for Kreia's bullshit in the fight you have to do before the cave. The game is telling you she lies and is trying to warp the PC, right before she lies to you and tries to warp your perspective.
Kreia had valid points in regards to the Jedi, sith and the force. That doesn't mean you should believe or take everything she says at face value. She is just as prideful and arrogant as the Jedi masters she despises so much. She has a serious case of delusions of grandeur and extremely prideful. This is why she gets mad when you don't follow her teachings. She also tells you at the end of the game that all she wanted was that her teachings mattered.
Yep. Everything you said was right. It doesn't have much to do with what I said, but you're right. She wants the exile to think about their actions, but if you actually defend your choice, either light or dark side, she gets mad about it. She doesn't want an apprentice with agency, she wants a tool to kill the force. She's written well and her contradiction's aren't bad writing. They are character flaws, and one of them is that she is a sith lord pretending to be a grey jedi and her teaching reflect that.
None of her criticsms of the Jedi are remotely accurate. She relies on the same misapprehensions as every mainstream critic of the Jedi; She tries to attack their spirituality, which is actually unassailable, instead of their governance which is full of problems.
>which is actually unassailable
She believes the Force itself to be evil. She's not saying that God doesn't exist, she is saying that his morality is backwards and he deserves to die for it
Right, and she's completely incorrect. The Force is a benevolent entity that unites all things. This is patently the case. Her idea of the Force being evil relies on misapprehensions about what the Force is.
That guys interpretation of kreia is wrong. And you're wrong for believing the force is benevolent.
The universe is held captive by a sentient force of nature that blindly hands out world destroying powers in a lottery game at birth.
The Jedi do nothing and cannot act because the fear reprisal from the force. This is truth across the entire franchise.
And the Sith abuse the powers of the force thereby making the jedi incompetent.
Except that's not remotely the case. The Force is nothing more than the consummate spiritual energy of life in the universe, and its priority is proliferation. In the name of proliferation, it inherently seeks harmony. It is a natural byproduct of the universe's function that individuals are born more or less attuned to this subconscious energy field that unites all beings- and those who choose to heed it do so because they see that the unified life energy of the entire galaxy is worth tending for the betterment of all people. Fear, even fear of failure, is something the Jedi explicitly attempt to extirpate themselves of.
The Dark Side is proof of the Force's benevolence. It is because it is NOT evil, arbitrary, or tyrannical that all people are given the free choice to dutifully serve its interests or else use their connection to it to flip the table and force it to serve their interests instead. The Force allows you to enslave it at any time, and the Jedi are merely those who insist you must refuse the temptation to do so, and that the righteous thing to do is instead heed its floes and protect it from those who would do otherwise.
Kreia is a moronic Sith who is coping about being a Sith. Her ideology is functionally an obsession with personal power, and even her desire to kill the Force is merely due to the belief that she will obtain "True Freedom" by doing so, i.e. the stated goal of Sith philosophy.
You really eat that star war shit up huh.
I'm not trying to be smug or dismissive or mean spirited. But I'm not reading any of that shit. Go frick yourself nerd.
I'd respect star wars if they SOLIDIFIED the force at least by the 3rd movie. But they didn't. It's completely made up horse shit that means nothing and it changes every 3 years. So why bother memorizing this shit. It's fake spiritualism for nerds.
I haven't really memorized anything, anon. I just enjoy arguing about nerdshit, frick off if you don't lol.
Lmao you wrote an essay and now you're trying to act nonchalant as if you weren't foaming at the mouth. You're such a pussy. If you want to be a star wars obsessed freak then just be that, don't flip flop to win to change your argument strategy.
Ironic, you change your thoughts on star wars the same way star wars changes everything about the force
>Ironic, you change your thoughts on star wars the same way star wars changes everything about the force
lol rekt
anon he stated he hasn't memorized shit and admitted he loves to debate nerdy stuff
where is the contradiction?
Then what's this
If that isn't memorization then what is.
My understanding of how the Force works after watching Star Wars? I didn't need to memorize anything to understand what I was watching.
Classic argument of the midwit. Thinking that nobody can understand anything without sitting there and studying it for hours. You're so much dumber than you think lmao
None of that shit is said anywhere in the movies. You are pulling shit out of your ass and trying to pretend it's deep lore.
It's the first explanation of the force given by Obi-Wan in the first movie.
>The Force is an energy field that flows through all living things
>It's also their literal spirit in energy form and it always want to procreate and that's why it's gonna try and make you frick your sister, Luke.
>It's a good friend.
Fricking teenage carrie fisher is objectively morally correct
Kreia isn't in the movies either so I think when people are discussing her it's fair to bring in EU shit.
But really arguments over the Force are inherently moronic. Kreia wasn't right because you can't be right about the Force when it's something written a hundred different ways by a hundred different authors. There is no reasonable way to reconcile Lucas' view with Avellones, and Denning's, and Stover's, and Zahn's, etc. God I hate that I read so many of these books as a kid. Even if you restrict it to Lucas' shit, it's obvious to all but the most delusional copers that Lucas' vision of nearly every part of the setting changed massively over time. If we go totally hardline ANH-only, it's just vaguely defined new age 70s pop-buddhism go with the flow nonsense, which doesn't support much of what Kreia says.
All you can really do is discuss whether it was a cool or interesting portrayal. If we take Kreia to be an Avellone mouthpiece intended to be right, I don't find her particularly interesting or deep. She doesn't need to be of course, she's a RPG companion NPC, but people insist otherwise for some reason.
>Except that's not remotely the case.
It is the case. What the Jedi think is the "will of the Force" is actually the Whills, microbiological organisms that live inside people, drive them around like cars, and feed on the Force energy their cells create. This is directly stated by George Lucas. They tell the Jedi to be pacifistic and spread peace so that they can propagate themselves.
The Will of the Force that the Jedi follow is a lie, something created by a galactic parasite to help facilitate it's own reproduction. This is also why Dark Siders become corrupted and whither away, because they're being poisoned by the Whills in their own bodies. And this is also why "the Force" opposes the Dark Side, because the Dark Side is the manifestation of human will and ego, in conflict with the will of the Whills.
And of course this explains the Exile's condition, because the massive Force whiplash they went through on Malachor V killed all the Whills in their system, making them an anomalous black hole in the "will of the Force" that the Jedi instinctively reject.
Kreia was right about everything.
I hate this shit so fricking much. Why couldn't lucas just keep the buddhist larp going?
>something George said and never incorporated in a movie or EU
He already contradicted himself on every possible topic at least a dozen times. But sure, keep lying to yourself, b***h.
It is what it is, and in fact that's about his last word on it since he was planning to delve into the topic in his own sequels by having Luke connect with the microbiological world.
>Midichlorians are objectively symbiotic, not parasitic.
>You have no evidence that midichlorians drive people around like cars-
Black person you don't even know that the Midichlorians and Whills are two different organisms, don't speak to me again.
>"Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in.... We're vessels for them. And the conduit is the midi-chlorians. The midi-cholorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force."
>It is what it is
Yeah, one of George's 6 million revisionist fever dreams. Just like RotJ being about Vietnam and shiet.
Whills don't exist in any media, you moronic homosexual.
It's the end point of his fever dreams, in other words the most canon of them all. It's also obviously true, so why oppose it other than the fact that you seethe the idea?
This is hands down the dumbest argument I've heard for retconning.
That's the nature of retconning though. You can understand it's stupid, but that doesn't change what is.
Dude, you're fricking moronic.
Midichlorians are objectively symbiotic, not parasitic. They grant obvious benefits to people in exchabge for their presence, and a magical field of empathy that unites all people is a tool that can produce impossible forms of coexistence otherwise. You have no evidence that midichlorians drive people around like cars- The Dark Side's existence is proof that you are free to do otherwise, and the brain/tissue damage you put your body through as a result of using force lightning is also your choice.
>muh Whills
41% yourself already
NOW THAT is what KotOR 2 should have been, instead of this pretentious centrist crap that it was.
Sex with darkrey.
>t. dimwit
Everything he said except Kreia was right, was good stuff. We needed a dark jedi who did the coof. That's what KotOR 2 should have been.
>Everything he said except Kreia was right, was good stuff.
No, he's a dimwit because he thinks Kotor 2 was about "muh centrism, muh grey". The sliding scale goes dimwits = "it's centrism! le moral ambiguity!" -> midwits = "It's all a trick! She's a Sith trying to manipulate you!"
It's not that she's a sith trying to manipulate you, it's that she's a sith who is deluding herself.
The force gave us Anakin, the personification of the force. A baby killing genocidal maniac.
Anakin had free will. Even the chosen one was allowed to reject his mantle.
The force is very lame if be like that.
What, for allowing people to have free will and trusting in the inherent goodness of humanity? Yeah, it's why Jedi are important. The Force won't stop us from destroying ourselves any more than we can stop ourselves in the first place.
The force is so weak and unimportant it doesn't matter if you're made from it or not. It's supposed to be some kind of universal binding, guiding force but they may as well not even bothered.
Nope, no interesting struggle of Anakin's humanity vs. the force where he loses his humanity because dark side was put into him and then reclaimed himself against God's will. He was always just a moronic dick that was tricked into the dark side and then he gets redeemed so easily despite being a genocidal maniac baby killer. Yawn.
The Force is the writers, and the will of the Force is us, the audience. We demand exciting things always happen, and the Force acts to throw their universe into turmoil for our amusement.
neck ur sepoku
bro if u are any level of income over 55k i would litterly fitre you in person
ALMOST SIR
deee forceee is a fukin forceee and people adapt to interprit it
deee forrce does not make people sensative
but it does fukin help those that are
ANNNNND
if u frick up it will eat you and probably far more than just you
its why sith are so fricking strong and jedi are so fricking surpressed
jedi cant be eaten
sith are walking black holes and 1 of those bad bois could clapp entire orders of jedi
phyisically....... or faaaaar more likely flutterbywise
Nah, singular Jedi defeat Sith plenty. It's just that the Dark Side is easier, so there's a higher likelihood of the average Sith being stronger than the average Jedi. But a strong Jedi is much stronger than a strong Sith. Palpatine wasn't so dangerous for his lightsabering or force skills; It was his politics and resources, things outside the usual Sith framework of battle and spiritualism, that made him so dangerous.
sith are stronger but there are only ever 3 siith
because its so fricking dangerous
1 master 1 student and the one that devours
jedi can beat sith acolytes ect
the 3rd sith can be the master or the student or a 3rd party
and the 3rd sith can create entire orders of ""sitthh"" ect but threre are only ever 2-3 its a universal law just like the force
jedi is an ideology sith is an embodiment
bullshit. it's more like the force is a conveyer belt spitting out force sensitives to wield it's power so it can assert itself throughout the galaxy. The force is more akin to a devil that gives you power, but that's the conceit. It's not your power. You're a slave to it. That's what the sith and jedi don't realize, both of them drink from the same well. By using the force, you proliferate the force's influence over the galaxy.
Kreia has been on both sides and sees that the force controls both sides to some unseeable end and this pisses her off to no end.
>Kreia has been on both sides and sees that the force controls both sides to some unseeable end and this pisses her off to no end.
What bugs me is how DOES she know that? I mean the real answer is the plot must move forward to the movies but how does she know it's not just choice?
she was a master and the sudent became the one that devours she thought she was the devourer and she realised there was a 3rd sith the entire time and it made here frickingg pissed for obvious reasons
here student deafeating here reveald that there was another sith
and the hidden sith shattered here ideas of reality
she was a small fish eating algee and it became clear when she was defeated she followed forbidden and ancient teachings to craft here food and one day here "still food" defied death and defeated here she was food and she realised
somebody was doing what she did to here but over thousands of years not hundreds
its why she does not murderfrick here apprentice when she next sees him because she sees in the MC what she saw in here apprentice cranked to 11
multi generational excellence so she wants to understand what the person that is hunting here eats and why
What do you mean how? She was Botha Jedi councilor and a sith master. She's trained 2 of the greatest with Lords of her generation before she got ousted by her apprentice.
She's the most based star wars character because she put her money where her mouth is and seen it all and did it all.
Her final conclusion after experiencing both sides of the coin was to find some way for everyone, including non force sensitive people, to divorce themselves from the force's influence completely and utterly for all time.
That still doesn't explain the point of claiming the force is achually in control. Those were her choices.
Because regardless of whether a Jedi or sith tries to practice self determination, their still reliant and subservient to the force. Without they are nothing. Therefore, all their actions are based on subsisting or coexisting with the force.
Yes but that still doesn't imply the force is directly in control. It's a tool.
No, moron. The Sith dominate the Force, while the Jedi look for harmony within it. Stop shitting out your moronic troony headcanon already.
Frick finally someone who actually made a reasonable point about this stupid shit.
kinda jedi take what the river gives sith sit in the river and attempt to direct it
sith dont dominate it at all in reality thats the sith goall however by any means necessary they want to dominate it but mostly it overcomes them and twists them
you can be a good sith but it has never existed and you can dominate the force as a jedi ((dominate)) but they are incapable of wanting to for obvious reasons
I barely did a thing. It's been spelled out through entire EU. And it's coherent with the movie lore, even though the movies never bothered to go into details.
If you'd like George's saying on that - the "balance" Anakin was meant to restore was erasing the Sith (Palpatine and himself), who were basically cancer on he Force.
The Sith are nothing without he force, and every siths action is based on accumulating more power. How could they be in control of their destiny if they're so predictably 2 dimensional
and humans are nothing without their limbs, what's your point, that tool using ape wouldn't be able to beat a bear empty handed?
My limbs don't compel me to punch. It's my mind that does that.
The force compels others to disconnect themselves from others, or to dominate. That's why there is no self determination unless you cut yourself off from the force. This is what kreia was talking about. Jedi and sith are like crack addicts unable to make a decision without accounting for the force.
kierra disconnected like MC because she realised they were food
food means a predator exists and they are prey
the jedi are taoists that seek to work in harmony with the "world" aka the force
the sith are individualists that seek power to be free and to self actualize whatever they want to be
them using the force as a tool to achieve their ends towards happiness is as natural as you using a rock to defend yourself in the wild
kreia's grief with the force was because it was seen as the great architect trying to use people as pawns / tools to make some master plan
she rejected that because surprise surprise she is a sith in denial
to cut yourself off from the force would be to be a radical luddite where you reject all tools because civilization and technology can control you
her philosophy is a moronic reactionary response to these influences instead of realizing that you don't have to let them control you if you are aware enough of how they do it
>but their actions are tied to the force
and you are tied to food for energy and air for breath, do you become ascetic because you Can become a glutton? no you learn how to avoid impulses that lead you to ruin
>but in universe
in universe trying to go against the force is as pointless as trying to go against god if the script is written by the god aka in bible
it just doesn't make any sense to even try, there is no way to break free from that because they are literally everything around you, to fight that is to be a rebel piece on the board that is destined to be some kind of warning example or to do something that is outside the normal behavior of pieces that will lead to a desirable outcome for the force
the in universe force is so OP that kreia is a moron to try to go against it
>What bugs me is how DOES she know that? I mean the real answer is the plot must move forward to the movies but how does she know it's not just choice?
Because destiny incontrovertibly exists in Star Wars. Jolee talks about it extensively in Kotor 1.
>The guy whose "great heroic destiny" was to get sucked into an engine
I always liked Jolee's stories. Entertaining on the surface, but with meaning if you look deeper.
You know, I think the problem with Avellone's writing is that it lacks that surface level. He has all these deep concepts that he wants to convey but it's all vague and flowery with very little of substance to ground it. It lacks foundation.
I think she looks to repeating moments throughout history and found patterns in them, e.g. the cyclical jedi sith wars and how force was the main thing in the middle of it every time. Maybe kind of like how gravity pulls objects together, the force produces these outbursts of conflict, death, war over and over again. Without the force you have none of that, so she seems to think that the Force's 'will' can be somewhat understood by the repetition that it constantly produces
Not the guy you're replying to. Your interpretation of the force is so much fricking cooler and would make for an amazing series.
>The force is more akin to a devil that gives you power, but that's the conceit. It's not your power. You're a slave to it. That's what the sith and jedi don't realize, both of them drink from the same well. By using the force, you proliferate the force's influence over the galaxy.
This evil power invites it's users to abuse others. Therefore the only correct way to use it is to not use it at all or to stop those who would use it.
>This evil power invites it's users to abuse others. Therefore the only correct way to use it is to not use it at all or to stop those who would use it.
In essence Kreia is a Satanic figure in the straight Paradise Lost sense, as in she recognizes the power God (the Force) has over her and covets it. This is why she plays at being a manipulator, because she sees the way the Force influences people and subtly guides their destiny to be the most powerful thing in the universe. So in seeking freedom from the Force, she emulates it, but in her own limitation and inability has to still use it, in the same way Satan understands that all of his plans and moves to foil God's design are actually futile because they're all accounted for and were predetermined to bring about God's ultimate will anyway. But he can't stop, because it's his own nature, and the role he was made to play.
It's a tragedy, in other words.
i interpreted her as a individualist that wants to be free from all external influences but ran into a brick wall with the force until she went on a path to find a way to break its power over her, she's still a sith in denial in the sense that she wants the power to do as she pleases
you're right though she is satanic because satan is literally a demonization of individualism painted from the perspective that "perfect order" = good
>i interpreted her as a individualist that wants to be free from all external influences
A little of column A a little of column B.
The example of Hanharr shows that her thinking is really torn between two ideas. On the one hand, she encourages forming a bond with him that allows you to make use of his psychotic state to empower yourself and to use him as a tool for your own ends. This shows her desire to mimic the true power of the Force, that is to influence and manipulate, and from the Sith perspective to force others to be dependent on you. This is the real power of the Banite Sith for example.
However, if instead you choose not to bond with Hanharr and tie yourself to him, she views that as "true strength". Because really that's what she wants, not to be subject to this co-dependence, where you bind yourself to people and ideas just to gain a reward. This is similar to the Jedi concept of "letting go", but in this case she brings it to it's ultimate conclusion by extending the concept to everything, including the Force itself. But this, she can't achieve, because she's dependent.
this is the dumbest headcanon shit I've ever read (excluding Disney slop)
I should clarify that I only believe this holds true on KOTOR and not OT.
gay demiurge shit isn't a good fit for star wars in my opinion
The force basically is the demiurge. Since every conflict is caused or manipulated by said "force".
Therefore a characters who's sole motivation is to free people from the influence of this all encompassing force is cool
Their inability to understand the Exile proves her point. They are completely unable to comprehend the Exile existing without feeling the force like they do. They only see an anomaly that threatens their existence.
Yeah lol. It's easy to write a caricature that says whatever you want them to say, isn't it? The problem is if you look at the actual principles of the Jedi order, their priority is wisdom and understanding. They believe they can find the will of the force through meditation and observation- Jedi would -study- the Exile, not get mindbroken by the concept. Like I said, it's a moronic criticism that doesn't remotely address what jedi spiritualism is actually like or what jedi values actually are.
>what jedi spiritualism is actually like or what jedi values actually are.
Which is nothing. Every movie changed the core concept of Jedi, the force and how everything works.
There hasn't been a franchise more inconsistent with its core mechanic than star wars.
The people who think they're scholars of star wars are the dumbest tools in any fandom.
It's pretty consistently been a unifying energy field that wants harmony in the galaxy. That's been apparent from the first movie, and it's consistent throughout all films. Your obsession with minute distinctions regarding how is ignoring the fact that the "why" has always been the same.
It hasn't. And you're a moronic wiener sucking Black person. Go frick yourself c**t.
You'll burn in hell like the rest of them
Mad cuz bad, seethe harder.
>The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together
>No matter your reaction with a beggar, helping ignoring or telling them to frick off, she'll b***h at you
She wants you to think about why you do things. She doesn't actually care. There's no rep hit regardless of what you do unless you tell her to frick off.
Provably wrong, because the other visions in the tomb are from moments personal to the Exile that Kreia would have no way of knowing about. It's also the only time in the entire game that "Kreia" calls Atton and Bao-Dur by name.
And both decisions are bounded by the force and the light/dark cycle. See wants you pissed at the unending universal cycle.
>And both decisions are bounded by the force and the light/dark cycle
No, they aren't and thats the flaw in her argument. She thinks you're doing stuff because of the light/dark side dichotomy, but if you argue that "no, it's just a good thing to do and doing good things makes me feel good about myself" she gets mad about it and tries to blame other people's actions on the PC. You're right in what her goal is, but her argument is flawed because she has a goal behind it. Sometimes people do things just because doing the thing makes them feel good, not because a doctrine says that's what you should do. I mentioned it before, but if you play the game trying to be a neutral as possible like she is claiming she wants you to do, you're influence with her will end up in the dumpster.
bro kiara exp[lotes basic emotion for impactfull ends ur entrie stuff is kiara explotable our lady realised exploted
so speaks ere understandin a vastly cutroat brutal interpritation of expirience but aquesses at evvvvery step because ere realisatioon is see food
LEARN ENGLISH OR SHUT THE FRICK UP moron
i make english dont ever at me again <3 u ty
eat shit and die
you can lick the sweat from my ball sack after your wife has thrown out the matress she pissed on (ex ofc)
>wife
kek. what a normie homosexual b***h you are.
i love normie b***h homosexuals you wouldnt get it
wut?
bro kreia exploits basic emotions to her own ends, your entire path is kreia exploiting our lady realized she's exploited
she speaks her understanding cutthroat brutal interpretation of experience but aquesses at every step because her realizations are see through
or something
id rather have a femboy sith apprentice
Damn, good job anon. Too bad he's not right, but good job at translating that.
words are just a method of communication in the end, try to understand what they're trying to communicate and you can piece together something cohesive from their words usually
lmao an oldgay in a writers room im shoook
content over context (i stiill want viscerally appealing metaphors kek)
very close realisations are see food
6your amalgamation is warrented see food eat it
no more kiara apprentice transcended death
>if you argue that "no, it's just a good thing to do and doing good things makes me feel good about myself"
You don't make that argument. First, you can say that you want to help him just to help him. She responds that giving him a few credits may just make him a target for others, it may not help him at all. Or, that he himself could just go on to hurt somebody. The point she's making here is that you don't actually know the consequences of your actions, you just did something for really no reason at all. You can then say you'll think about that, to which she's pleased, or that you won't and will just keep doing whatever, to which she's not.
You don't actually argue that you did it because it made you feel good. She might criticize the shallowness of that motive, but if it was true for you she wouldn't mind. This is why she deems Dark Side Exile (who killed the masters out of revenge) a failure, since when she asks if you were satisfied by it, the answer is no, meaning that like Scion you're pursuing a hollow gratification.
Really the point she's making is just to use consideration when doing things, it's not that complicated.
>Toss the beggar a coin
>DON'T TOSS THE BEGGAR A COIN
>OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>hmmm what if that good thing you did was actually bad, ever thought about that?
>but doing bad things, that's no good either
>I am le grey (a whiny c**t)
The deepest video game character of all time.
>hmmm what if that good thing you did was actually bad, ever thought about that?
Do you have any idea how many libshits need to learn this lesson?
That would require them to actually do good things first.
Galactic conflicts have erupted before in the star wars galaxy without force users, So I don't think removing the force will stop people from killing each other.
kys op this game is pretty good but the last jedi is kino
I don't know why people had issues with her and I got tons of influence points with her. Literally don't be aq twirly mustache evil psycho or LARP as Jesus and she'll usually be cool with you. It was the devs telling you to be yourself. She can still like you as any alignment if you don't try to minmax.
Because most people are npcs and don't have any actual convictions, their morality is entirely secondhand and conditioned into them by others. When asked to explain why they believe what they do and why they make the choices that they do they sperg out and feel attacked because they've never actually thought about anything in their entire lives
It's actually easier to get her to like you if you do minmax though, it's when you flip-flop and follow her advice that you lose influence. Well that and being an overly violent pyscho. She's old ok? She doesn't want to get in a lot of fights.
Why wouldn't I minmax? It gives me bonuses.
>Sees you talking to a cute blind girl once
>Refuses to ever speak to you again
Is she the most realistic depiction of a woman in any video game?
I didn't have that, but I followed a guide that recommended speaking to Visas late. At the end, I wasn't sure who I was 'romancing', if anyone
What was their problem?
>vrook
general dichkead
>mutton chops
coward and a pussy, doormat for vrook
>Chad
Actually a pretty cool guy, but listens to baldy from the first game too much like the other dude
Like Kreia, they see in you the potential for the force to die. Unlike Kreia, they don't actually want that to happen. So they try to kill you.
Vrook was worse than most of the sith you encounter, a genuinely awful man
Why did he have to be the one they brought back from the firat game? The Yoda rip-off was cool, why not him?
They each represented a failing of the order at the time.
Stubborn pride
Mistaking passivity for wisdom
Turning away from the truth because they didn’t like the answers
They were so heavily stuck in the rigid doctrine & beliefs of the Jedi Order that they refused to be flexible or see anything that doesn't 110% align with their religion as anything but THE DARK SIDE.
Same with the Jedi Order from Anakin Skywalker's time. Their sense of superiority was their downfall.
Modern Obsidian's only gimmick is to take an established world and then make a subversive sequel that is mostly about shittalking everything in that established world in a r/iamverysmart fourth wall breaking way. The more time passes the less I respect this approach.
>Modern Obsidian's only gimmick
pic related disproves your point
>Modern
This game is almost 20 years old. Obsidian also only did it with this game and kind of New Vegas. Basically, you're full of shit.
It works for star wars because it's a vapid universe hiding behind new wave religion.
The force is literally a god, and the Jedi and sith are fanatics that spread dogma and make the universe their problem over their schism.
>turns to the dark side because she's a seething femcel
kek
>no option to pound her in front of the sith holocrons to set her back to the light side
shit game, chris.
I could've fixed her if only the game allowed me to
Jolee > Kreia
pure pazaak
Test
I think the dislike of kreia simply boils down to her being a senior woman soliciting unwanted advice around every corner, and contradicting your choices simply to remind you.
She's literally just an annoying senior mother chirping in your ear constantly. It's annoying as shit.
If they had made her an old man then this would have been fine. not joking, don't make a single change to her dialogue, literally just get an older man with a scruffy voice to do her lines and it would have been better.
I think because older women have absolutely dogshit advice and have nothing to offer men. That's why hearing her in a position of seniority acting as a wise sage who's done it all is Ludacris.
Her advice and story ARE interesting, her delivery and character just pisses you off naturally
>I think the dislike of kreia simply boils down to her being a senior woman soliciting unwanted advice around every corner, and contradicting your choices simply to remind you.
>She's literally just an annoying senior mother chirping in your ear constantly. It's annoying as shit.
She subconsciously reminds me of teachers I had as a kid, telling me off for things I didn't really understand.
Kreia was pretty as a well written le enlightened centrist. Hind sight 20:20 clearly a former sith.
Not a centrist. She is just a regular sith lord.
>"But I'm le different from all other Sith Lords! I know the TRUE meaning of freedom and strength! "
T. Every generic sith lord ever, shortly before activating their doomsday device
Doesn't Avellone pretty much write the same story every time?
No, you'l just misunderstand him. He uses old women as mentors as a common motif among his games. An old lady with a bitter sad past is repeated. Doesn't mean the stories are all the same.
I mean hear ideology boils down to dominating your enemies by proving their ideologies are incorrect. Its why She spergs out if you kill your former masters.
Its not enough to be right, you need to be right AND convert people without the force to believe it.
fine ill be the devils advocate, freia was a living proof that her cutthroat muh kratocracy doesn't work in action, she blamed the dark side but all she could do after her frick up was try to groom some dumbass PC to do her bidding, her philosophy is ripped from some nietzschean esque armchair philosophy and she lived in her own fantasy land of "works on paper and sounds cool"
pyrrhonism is nothing new and she took a page out of that book in terms of her contrarian in every direction approach, she would argue you until you would follow what she wanted you to do like a puppy and then just stop making arguments even when there were more to be made because there is literally an argument to be made about any decision
she is a discount machiavellian schemer who was luckily written by someone who actually read philosophy books to make her sound cohesive, in reality though she basically puts on a show of having some deep knowledge while in reality she just knows how to spit out the seeds of nietzsche fruit and debate with pyrrhonism on why you should follow the trail of those seed to whatever the frick she wants you to do
her philosophy is wack and her only redeeming quality is that she uses pipe smoking intelligentcia homosexuals own tendency to huff their own farts with rationality against them in a beautiful way
Your criticism boils down to
>She's using intro to philosophy
>But the player, if he understands the philosophy, can't use logic to counter argue with her
>And she doesn't go far enough into the philosophy
>Therefore she's surface level midwit and I'm smart
I bet you think Caesar is wrong simply because he cites Hegal when "UMM ACTUALLY HE'S CITING FITCHE ERGO HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND"
My final word. You didn't understand the character enough to make this criticism when you're this much of a midwit.
ill dumb it down so you can digest it better, pyrrhonism can be used to argue literally anything, the PC doesn't get the option given to debate her back that she is literally just running circles until the PC lands on the option that she wants them to and then she stops arguing to make it seem like the PC "finally got it", the fact that you thought she is some brilliant genius says that you don't understand pyrrhonism either or the fact that literally everything can be debated if you try hard enough, her using the tendency to get into those kinds of debates with people is her only selling point and it's not even proper philosophy it's just a machiavellian tactic of manipulation
her character is not some paragon of wisdom who has deep understanding of anything apart from manipulation and the fact that you espouse her as something grand and assume that "you just don't get it man" is the only reason someone could criticize her
congratulations on being manipulated into seeing a large shadow by a scripted character
You're such a delusional moron.
The reason why the PC isn't given a choice to endlessly argue philosophy is because it's a video game and the PC shouldn't be arguing philosophy.
>Why can't I choose to argue with her for hours in a back and forth, what can I do with my expensive education?
I never said she's brilliant. I only replied to you once you moronic troony.
Kreia isn't some genius but her methodology of questioning the PC and leaving the conversation on a "food for thought" is vastly better then your fricking moronic idea of letting the player get himself into a ramble on philosophy and do circular logic.
And you didn't need to explain pyrrhonism. Jesus Christ you really huff your own shit thinking you're the smartest in the thread. I know you're probably as dumb as the Cinemaphiletard here. I can only wonder how obnoxiously smelly you are irl.
>bro it's just a game
already stated a reply for you right here buddy
you're so fricking predictable that you should read your posts first line back to yourself in front of a mirror
I respect the coomers who think there should be a rape option in dialogue than your autistic complaint.
Yeah, sorry they tried to add intro to philosophy in a video game for kids, and you got a hard on because you studied the material and want to flaunt your regurgitated knowledge. It's still just a video game and only you care. Sorry.
already summarized my point here
you can rant about coomer options on your own time and be sad that your "too right for tv" character was mid
I never said she's too right. Are you moronic? You're arguing with multiple anons. If you cant wrap your head around that then you don't belong here
lol this dude never played the game.
I like Peragus.
it has a great atmostphere
It's grown on me tbhq
I also like Telos, but I always did
It's good because the vanilla game lets you get Jedi levels from the beginning, & you can sometimes get some good loot. It's just that boring as hell "murder mystery" that's a massive slog, though I always fast forward through those parts with rapid clicking.
Taris with "Start as a Jedi" mod > Peragus > Taris
Peragus is great, it's almost like a survival horror level which was a very interesting opening to a Star Wars RPG
normies just moan about the early game because no lightsaber and little force powers
>bro it's the nature of the medium, the options are going to be limited
they could have included the option it wouldn't have taken much to add some "huff space dust to understand basic philosophy" that unlocks an option to call her out on her bullshit but they didn't, why?
because the players seeing through her facade would have made her a dull character, the fact that you bought it hook line and sinker tells that you're gullible and easily manipulated
Just because a character begins a conversation and leaves it open ended so you can think on it and come to your own conclusions, doesn't mean it's bad writing. To think you deserve to win every argument in a video game because you know the irl answers and counter argument because you read the source of the argument just makes you an autistic dumbass.
>but muh plot train
already told you she would have been a dull character without the plot armor of limited options, fill in the blanks story telling is pretty common even the souls series did it with open to interpretation stuff, i'm just saying that her philosophy is mid and she's a manipulator
she's not "way too right about everything", she's literally just presenting herself as the wise crone while in reality she's just using basic philosophy and manipulation
you can't write a philosophical character well because everything can be unraveled and if the metric you judge the character is how right they are then they will always fall to pyrrhonism
in conclusion, kreia wasn't "way too right about everything" and i have ranted a good while on why that is
thank you for coming to my teded talk
>she's literally just presenting herself as the wise crone while in reality she's just using basic philosophy and manipulation
And that's a good thing. Using basic philosophy doesn't mean a character is a simpleton you fricking midwit poser.
>you can't write a philosophical character well because everything can be unraveled
Writing an infallible character is horrid writing, hence why you're a midwit. Imagine their every argument and logic was perfect. Having a Mary Sue who can't be debated is shit writing. Please, tell me any character with infallible philosophy.
>And if the metric you judge the character is how right they are then they will always fall to pyrrhonism
You still have me confused with someone else, again, I'm not someone who ever judged kreia based on how right she is.
Ironically however, you are judging her on how her mindset is open to debate. Which is a flawed logic to use. Imagine nobody is allowed to hold beliefs simply because their logic can be debated.
Anyway, kreia isn't using pyrrhonism. You just learned this word and now you think you see it everywhere.
I think you're a solipsistic tool who needs to get a reality check.
>mary sue's are boring
they are, but that means she isn't "right about everything"
>tell me any character with infallible philosophy
no such thing as infallible philosophy, the whole point of why pyrrhonism was made was to prove that and they did such a good job that even the ancient greeks stopped debating them
>kreia isn't using pyrrhonism
pretty sure you don't know what the frick that means if you think that
>you have me confused with someone else
then stop yapping your gums when you're not even arguing the point that i'm arguing, i didn't come here to debate how to write a good character, i came to play devils advocate on why kreia isn't "too right about everything"
the fact that you didn't get the memo and kept debating me shows how fricking stupid you are
>i never said it
no you didn't OP did and OP is the one who i played devils advocate to
glad you could join us tard
anon i could recite the short version of godfathers philosophical and psychological themes on the spot and make a longer post, how fricking high are you right now to think you need to memorize that write a skinny post like that?
Your criticism of kreia is moronic and I'm not arguing about kreia being perfect. I'm saying media is a great character, regardless if her philosophy can be attacked.
Here you are, trying to flex your community college philosophy homework. I've never heard a more dumbass complaint of a video game. But saying the game should have allowed the PC to cite earth philosophy is moronic gay shit. You're a midwit, someone who thinks they belong with geniuses but you use cheap references to criticize children's video games. Therefore you're a pseud
>you can't criticize a moronic statement by dissecting my favorite character from a video game by showing she's not infallible
i can and i did
>i'm not arguing that she's perfect
OP did
>you shouldn't have an option to call her out
like i said would have made her a dull character but could have proven her philosophy was flawed
>you're flexing
if you think citing entry level greek philosophy from the holy trinity of stoicism, hedonism and pyrrhonism to prove a point is flexing you're mentally moronic
>you're dumb
keep talking and let the people reading your piss pants raging make their own conclusions on that
>let me put words in your mouth and cling to the one example you used to prove her philosophy is not too right as a strawman
you're pretty stupid to try to go for that but you do you
>you think you're a genius
i have done nothing that would merit that kind of praise in this debate, there hasn't been any need to go into deep dive and being well read doesn't make you smart
>stop attacking my favorite game of childhood
just playing devils advocate to prove OP wrong, settle down piss pants
>you're a pseud
that's just like, your opinion man
if you say so
You're moronic and still haven't answered my question.
Name a character who espoused perfect flawless philosophy in their actions. Name 1, and tell me they're well written and compelling.
anon there is no such thing as a perfect flawless philosophy in general you fricking moron, even pyrrhonism has a flaw and that is that it says that nothing is certain and saying that as something written in stone creates a paradox
>Name a character who espoused perfect flawless philosophy in their actions. Name 1, and tell me they're well written and compelling
LORD MALAK WAS MOST DISPLEASED TO LEARN YOU ESCAPED THE DESTRUCTION OF /qa/ ALIVE.
the force is energy and it's everywhere TM
that should have been enough of an explanation on it
>all those kreiagays literally seething and squirting blood trough their necroveganas whenever someone with a 3-digit IQ tells them why their golden calf is actually made of shit instead of gold
EVERY
SINGLE
FRICKING
TIME
It's been like this since 2004. 20 fricking years. Midwits love their babby's first deconstruction too much to see how misbegotten it actually is. They've been getting BTFO for 2 decades now, but always keep coming back. Basically Cinemaphile's equivalent of Snyderbros.
Literally what is wrong with babies first intro to philosophy.
It's a video game for kids. How else would you break it down. moron
star wars is SERIOUS anon.
>Literally what is wrong with babies first intro to philosophy.
Nothing, moron. Unless you cling to it for fricking 20 years, claiming it's the best shit ever, despite already being lectured numerous times on its undeniable flaws.
>claiming it's the best shit ever, despite already being lectured numerous times on its undeniable flaws.
Claiming it's good isn't saying the argument is perfect.
it's a good intro to philosophy for beginners, especially in a video game format, and that isn't saying that it's flawless and infallible you pseud.
You're a stupid c**t if you can't show me a character that espouses flawless philosophy where there's no room to question or debate.
Your criticism of Kreia is homosexual.
The frick are you even taking about, moron? How did you manage to """understand""" all of this from my single post here?
But go ahead. Project some more shit you could fight against in the internet. I bet you have lots of experience in this manner.
Holy shit you're autistic.
>:27:31
>:28:39
You don't need to humiliate yourself twice, troony.
This website isn't two people arguing you fricking autist. The classic fall back of the moron when he realizes everyone knows it
I prefer the unedited version, samegayging troony.
My sides. So mad YOU edited it. I've been wrongly called a samegay before but this is some new autism.
>he doesn't know how to unedit a picture on Cinemaphile
kek. keep sucking my dick, samegay
lol I can't tell if you're just baiting now. But I laughed.
Ok I win then, thanks for your concession.
Actually a valid point, I think KOTOR II is a great introduction to Nietszche even if the philosophical conclusions fail in-universe due to a benevolent, omnipresent God actually existing in it: something that would make Nietzsche happy, btw
the guy having the autistic meltdown in here is top entertainment, Kreia got to him good
i bet you they'll rip some of her monologues for the acolyte
>game that still gets weekly threads 20 years after release isn't even good
hurr durr
Still one of the biggest pleb filters of gaming and this thread proves it.
Kreia was an insane c**t that thinks morality matters lol, only thing that matters I power, she was too weak and therefore wrong
Kinda funny how everything you said is the complete opposite
>Kreia was an insane c**t that thinks morality matters
She's quite literally a moral relativist that considers the consequences of even the slightest act of charity.
>she was too weak and therefore wrong
She was a Jedi councilor and then a sith lord who created the greatest with warriors of all time. How the frick was she weak homie
Still one of the biggest midwit magnets of gaming and this thread proves it.
>kotr 2 is bad
stupid take, despite the characters having flaws in their thinking it was still a entertaining game
talk smack as mutc as you like from a corperate prespective kotor and kotor2 did more for starwars than any game since
imo
but seriously any metrick other than revenue generated in a vaccum
because those games generated revenue and created avacume
i judge good art by my own view of it, if i enjoyed it then to me it was good
50 shades of grey "sold well" and it's still a misguided book that did more harm to bdsm than any book before or after by painting a moronic toddler take on what bdsm is
do some people still think it's a good book? yes they do
>she uses everything to gain power to be free to self actualize
therefore she's a sith, just because you use the jedi code for your own benefit doesn't mean you follow the teachings of taoism/jedi code, a jedi wouldn't want to be free they would accept their role in the great canvas and try to co-exist instead of coerce the world around them to bend to their will
the jedi are a canvas that let the world paint on them and try to follow the will of the "world" the best they can to avoid bringing ruin to themselves by pointless opposition
the sith are a painter that want the freedom to express whatever their emotions and desires push forward to the surface onto others to self actualize a "magnum opus"
the grey jedi on the other hand are an interesting bunch, i think they're supposed to be zen buddhist kind of but they do lean a little bit into the in universe stuff to deviate from that enough to not really be that either
but freia is most definitely a sith
>headcanon
yes it is, that's how i interpret the sith code
we are art theres no need to judge it
i do wonder why i like people often and im reminded constantly
ez
here's a protip from eastern philosophy
the "feminine" is passive aka jedi
the "masculine" is active aka sith
yin and yang, the jedi are the feminine force passively reacting and the sith are the masculine force actively putting things into motion
in conclusion, the jedi are a bunch of "pussies"
eastern culture was dominated by subbs
ill wait for your rebuttle ...
your welcome
jade emperor
basado
camp invaded im to weak anikin fr op
domination is implied not an ideal smae person aquasence is a warrior spirit in te face of overwelmin defeat (t recent wars) penned by ghandir the ultra nuke saaar
were alll dominated aparently
AI lol yay bois
tfw no cute femboy padawan
Completely false of course. Jedi are rational, structured, associated with reinforcing social structures- White is the masculine color in chinkthink, yang is the feminine associated with disorder, selfishness, emotionality, and chaos.
The masculine urge is to produce order and organize. The feminine urge is to disrupt, consume, and destroy.
Sith are typified by the insecurity of the power hungry, for to seek power is to claim that you view yourself as weak and insufficient in the first place. Jedi don't seek power, but seek to wield it well: beginning from the assumption of strength is the masculine position.
thera..ends in my drank quabbles bein overly simplified
kinda lit tho actual tate
"just be you if your him"
>feminity is inherently evil if misguided
based and correct
But the Empire (aka Sith) is obviously the "LE ORDER" monopole. And the Jedi openly preach passivity.
It's more accurate to say that the Jedi represnt the epitome of what a hippy thinks Christianity does or should stand for, since that's what Lucas is.
stop bein meta you cuck meta stein slobberers made it via pur e liuck or devince it dont matter de least we can frickin do i s live in it
if you wonna talk meta ill start frickin all of em up
Palpatine was so dangerous because he was a feminine male given absolute power over civilization, twisting it to chaotic and destructive ends. The Empire's order existed ultimately to build death machines and sow death on a scale unachieveable otherwise.
The government is a democracy though, therefore feminine by nature. And you never addressed the fact that the Jedi outright preach passivity.
Democracy isn't inherently feminine, it's just inherently vulnerable to being corrupted by feminine influence.
The Jedi don't outright preach passivity, they are warriors who are very active in the galaxy. They advocate for peace, unity, logic and objectivity. There's a huge difference between thinking about things before you do them and never doing them at all.
>The Jedi don't outright preach passivity,
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Yup. Examine the context. Luke is asking how to tell right from wrong- If you're trying to understand a situation, you should be detached and observant. Do you understand the difference between saying "When you are passive is when you are most observant" and preaching for passivity as a solution to problems?
>a Jedi should use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack
This is a full life philosophy, you even see Luke take it to the nth degree in Jedi when he throws down his lightsaber and refuses to attack the Emperor.
Yeah, using strength to defend others and not to be a parasitic leech is not passivity. He threw down his lightsaber to redeem his father.
>He threw down his lightsaber to redeem his father.
Post-factio rationale. He didn't know what was going to happen when he threw down the saber, even if he hoped.
The fact is, the Jedi do not use strength to actually actively change the galaxy. They don't see a problem and go to solve it, they need permission to be sent to solve it.
Luke knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. He wanted to redeem his father.
Jedi actively seek and hunt down Sith. They actively involve themselves in disputes and mediate them. They cultivate practical abilities to be of use to society.
>wanted
Key term.
>Jedi actively seek and hunt down Sith.
They knew Dooku was a Sith for three years and still acted like it was some big no-no to try and assassinate him. Also the Council blew off Qui-Gon in TPM.
>involve themselves
They're ordered to be involved by the Senate.
>practical abilities
Name me five Jedi engineers.
Key to what? Key to demonstrating how a person with sufficient insight can obtain their desired outcome?
Yeah, I dunno where the hell you got that idea, but last I checked they did in fact actively hunt down and try to kill Dooku.
Yes, the primary contention of the Prequel movies is that the Jedi have lost their way by allowing the senate to dictate their involvement in world affairs. This is explicitly stated to be a deviation from the intended role of the order.
Anakin and Luke create and repair their own electronics constantly. Why do you need me to name you five engineers when you could just look up any source on the subject and see that Jedi do indeed tell their members to cultivate practical skills not directly related to being a Jedi?
There's some direct quotes from Lucas talking about the Jedi's moral authority to use force to solve issues with Kasdan because he, like you, don't get it. Not gonna look it up for you though.
They're space Samurai and sometimes people need bisecting.
The samurai were mainly mercenary simps for their lord though. Like, Maul was more a samurai than any Jedi.
>Key to what?
That is to say, he was betting on an outcome he had no control over rather than risking his own emotional stability by attacking the Emperor.
>I dunno where the hell you got that idea
It's like Quinlan Vos' entire character conflict.
>This is explicitly stated to be a deviation from the intended role of the order.
In that case, when are they actually fulfilling that role?
>Why do you need me to name you five engineers when you could just look up any source on the subject and see that Jedi do indeed tell their members to cultivate practical skills not directly related to being a Jedi?
It's a running idea, but Anakin/Luke are outliers. For example Revan and the Exile were also so inclined. However such skills usually swing towards being diplomats, not technicians or inventors.
>It's like Quinlan Vos' entire character conflict
Fanfiction doesn't count.
First off this is clearly an EU thread. Secondly that was his arc in the cut Dark Disciple episodes of TCW.
No the Samurai were controlled by their land being taxed to hell and back so they live on a tax assessed stipend.
The Jedi are controlled by being funded and beholden to the Republic. Which is why it takes them far too long to deal with the Republic itself being corrupted.
>Just doin muh job
>Just following orders
In George's really old drafts the Sith were Jedi that wanted to assert de facto control over their long since nominal fiefs, while Jedi remained loyal to the idea of playing arbiters.
>In George's really old drafts the Sith were Jedi that wanted to assert de facto control over their long since nominal fiefs, while Jedi remained loyal to the idea of playing arbiters.
Now that'd be kino. What the frick happened to Lucas where he used to have vaguely good ideas and just tossed them all out after Empire?
Yeah, he was confident enough in his desired outcome to risk everything on it. Ultimately it was the same risk as a swordfight- He bet that he knew his opponents better than they knew him. Defeating an enemy without fighting is the acme of skill, etc.
Nah, Quinlan Vos' entire character conflict is that he comes perilously close to the dark side opening up a covert spy network and trying to assassinate Count Dooku.
Well, I would imagine during the thousand years of peace and prosperity that the Republic enjoyed under the Jedi Order before Palpatine came along and began subverting the system. The senate was less demanding of the Order and the Order was more independent of the Senate.
Well again, I dunno what to tell you. It's stated explicitly that Jedi are encouraged to cultivate other talents. If your criticism is that you don't feel this is demonstrated clearly enough, I disagree, since multiple protagonists are shown to be proficient at a variety of talents unrelated to being a Jedi, and sources otherwise say this is deliberate.
Furthermore, Jedi are a monastic order of warriors who enforce the will of the government and demand peace. By no means hippies, an anti-war, anti-warrior political movement. If christians all got automatic rifles and started demanding a position at the top of government where they could settle disputes and destroy corruption, hippies would shit themselves. In fact, that sounds weirdly like the foreign policy that hippies actually opposed.
>passivity
>*cuts your best friend's arm off in a bar fight*
Who was in the wrong and how would Kreia react to this?
To follow up your gay painting metaphor with a gay painting example that illustrates the issue Kriea sees:
>“I used it in this context to see---he’s looking at that little girl—which again is, a mother and a child. The closer he looks at the child, the less he sees, of course, with this style of painting. But the more he looks at it, there’s nothing there. He fears that the more you look at him (Cameron), the less you see. There isn’t anything there. That’s him.”
very bretty atleast we can see it even fi we dont know
>through heavens eyes
heaven is gay and kreias only downfall was fighting a "god" in a universe where one exists and is overpowered as frick and literally the definition of determinism
in our universe i believe we made god to symbolize our ideal of "perfect order" to model civilization after, if there is a perfect just and wise being to guide us then we will act accordingly
it's a cattle ranching technique for the masses and if the sith got one thing right then falling for that just for the comfort it brings is foolishness
then again siths still act in the will of the force like a fire the clears out over crown forests and creates fertile soil for new growth
all in all rather silly to partake in a rigged game one way or another, be the observer no point in participating if you are forced to act on a script anyway
a movie about her could be amazing but they'd royally ruin it.
i would ruin it and you would call me dem
its a wonderful idea to draw upon and it needs a remake and mods
venni viddi
mini meddi
>reinstall kotor 2
>remember peragus and telos exist
>uninstall kotor 2
There's a skip peragus mod
I liked 2 more than 1 because of the expanded equipment upgrade system. The first one had a more coherent story, but I always just played jedi Jesus in both. In 2, I mostly just told Kreia to frick off with her bullshit, I'mma save lives and be the best person I can be. Never did get around to doing a dark side run, it never really felt worth it.
AI won btw
>old grumpy b***h that has a crush on you seethes when you romance a woman that is nicer to you
Just hop on Revan's dick already, you clearly like him more than me anyway.
>too right about everything
She's obviously evil from the beginning, is this another one of those contrarian /misc/tard things?
You were right until your /misc/ boogeyman.
KOTOR II is philosophy 101 garbage for troony pseuds that actually hate star wars and lucas' vision (many of you will even admit to this). Basically the proto-TLJ. Avellone is a liar and a hack and i'm glad based karpyshyn retconned his fanfiction
thoughts on mr sion?
Proto-vader whose fight was easier than nihlus. Cool level though.
Excellent demonstration of the insecurity that ultimately serves as the fatal core of all Sith. An obsession with power belies their weak spirits, such that even if they were immortal and indestructible, they are merely too weak-willed and emotionally stagnated to ever truly feel safe. That inescapable weakness that is central to Sith philosophy is exactly why even if a Sith got everything they ever wanted, they would still be feverishly histrionic and insecure. No amount of safety is enough for their feeble hearts. No amount of power under their command can solve the problem of their girlish constitutions.
>seeking power makes you weak
withered j*di hands typed this post
the frick? no sith has ever had a weak spirit. nor jedi. how did you even come up with that idea?
Sion just simped for a girl. it was his personal character.
You're an idiot. Sion's issue was that nothing would ever satisfy him. He became a slave to the Force trying to find fulfillment, but no amount of killing Jedi would ever bring him even a moment of release and happiness. Same thing happens with the Exile if you go the revenge route, you literally cannot say that killing the masters sated you even slightly.
Why the frick is he scottish?
he was a human male. he couldve been from anywhere. its a kino accent though. we need more scottish villans
deluded aderant dat was so talented transcention of deat was a speed bump and master murder was an obby liked im
young dumb and full of cum
old broke and survived the yoke
>Cinemaphile tourists
not even once
I hate Josh Sawyer physically, I dislike that kind of man. He has the Chaplin Disease; that particular combination of arrogance and timidity sets my teeth on edge. Like all people with timid personalities his arrogance is unlimited. Anybody who speaks quietly and shrivels up in company is unbelievably arrogant. He acts shy, but he loves himself; a very tense situation. It's people like Avellone and Lucas who have to carry on and pretend to be modest. To me, Sawyer is the most embarrassing thing in the world - a man who presents himself at his worst to get laughs, in order to free himself from his hang-ups. Every thing he does in video games is therapeutic.
which crpg would orson welles hate the least?
Temple of Elemental Evil
Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar
I agree. Pentiment was the purest expression of his meekness and arrogance simultaneously conducted to date.
>Pentiment
Kinda wanna hear more about this, I missed that one. Was it that bad?
So, it pays a great attention to detail in aesthetic and I appreciate that. However, Josh Sawyer could not help but inject it with his own sploodge.
There is a character who regurgitates an extremely modern, out-of-place feminist critique of classic literature to you. If you agree with her you sound reasoned and intelligent, but if you disagree your argument is closeminded and poorly worded.
The game is an extremely frustrating mystery because you as the player can put two and two together and want to investigate something, but your character cannot investigate that until an arbitrary development takes place that suddenly opens it up, and because this is a game where you cannot possibly explore all options, you have no way of knowing for certain when the opportunity to follow up on something you've had the idea to investigate will actually open up.
The dialogue system is the very definition of an illusion of depth- An awful number scoring system of persuasion where for most encounters you must agree with everything a person says, and if you disagree with them even once, no matter how minor, it will be sufficient penalty to prevent them from aiding you. Not only is it unintuitive, it's also weighted in an absurd fashion- You can help somebody cover up and infidelity and find their lost child, only for them to refuse to aid you because you said something neutral about politics at the dinner table rather than actively agreeing with their stated position. Mind you, the other people at the table disagree, so you have no method of knowing whose favor you're supposed to be currying ahead of time.
As a result, instead of being a game that rewards exploration and choosing different outcomes, it's a game that rewards you for being a spineless, ass-licking sociopath whose opinions are completely amorphous and shift with whomever you speak to.
If I had to summarize my issues with Pentiment to a single word, it would be "contempt."
Oh, and just as a follow-up that I feel is illustrative of the point. There's a couple of monks in the game who are gay. Your character, despite potentially being extremely pious, is physically incapable of reporting their sin to the friar.
When fans asked why this wasn't an option, other fans called them homophobes and told them to shut up. Josh Sawyer considered this the mark of a good fanbase.
Or I dunno Josh, maybe as a libertarian pagan I wanna roleplay as a genuine bible-thumping orthodox fun-hating Hegel-tier theologian in your goddamn roleplaying story game, did you ever think about that? Maybe I WANNA see the horrors inflicted upon two innocent people by my prejudice? moron?
But of course not. Because Josh Sawyer has contempt for people who aren't him, and the further we get from 90s liberalism, the worse a developer he becomes.
Interesting, thanks for the run down. I wonder how much money they had for it considering. It came across as a 5 hour game or so, but you're right on the aesthetic detail. It's just a shame it wasn't more consistent with portraying politics. I'm reminded of Kingdom Come Deliverance's amazing verisimilitude.
sawyer's a babby reindeer
KOTOR 2 is a 120 hour long straw man that beats up a completely mistaken idea of George's force.
I like the Boba Fett joke at the end though.
>mistaken idea of George's force.
It recognized what George's Force was over a decade before he just came out and said it.
The force is clearly sentient in some way and definitely prefers war to peace. Just look at what happened with the republic.
this but unironically
based
Yep
Truth. Pre-Mouse Star Wars was so fun. Such a shame Yidsney had to buy it and fricking destroy it.
>Kreia be like
https://vocaroo.com/1lZCEqD5h4IQ