Eating animals is morally indefensible, because we no longer need to eat animals to survive. So we're killing them and forcing them to suffer for no justifiable reason.
Eating animals is morally indefensible, because we no longer need to eat animals to survive.
Correct. I'm vegan. Frick off.
fpwp
Veganism leads to anorexia and brain damage tho, so...
Being anorexic leads to anorexia and brain damage, so yeh.
Ok so can we stop giving money to Israel then so we can afford groceries?
>nooooooo that’s antisemetic!
then frick you
I dont have to justify myself to morons on the internet.
Owned.
>morally indefensible
Morality is subjective. You are as free to believe that it is morally wrong as I am free to believe it isn't.
It is subjective, but morality is only relevant to a lawful society. The reason people hate being confronted with this shit is because they hold values they don't live up to, which causes guilt and shame. Out of sight, out of mind.
>morality is only relevant to a lawful society
What is lawful isn't necessarily moral, what is moral isn't necessarily moral. Your statement is moronic.
>The reason people hate being confronted with this shit is because they hold values they don't live up to, which causes guilt and shame.
I am unashamed of eating animal products as I don't view it as an immoral act.
No, my statement stands. Laws are informed by morality. With your opening sentence you've assumed a moral code that you don't even live by, which makes you look like a fricking homosexual. Congratulations.
I eat the cow because he yummy in my tummy stay mad b***h
Have you seen what they go through in a slaughterhouse?
You are a heartless human being if you're so flippant about animal torture
frick off, they get a bolt to the brain and its lights out. go see what china does to rabbits and dogs and then come back here
Actually due to the pressures of industrial farming many of these animals fail to get stunned, notwithstanding all the terror and stress they endure before they're killed, and the abuse they're subjected to by the workers.
>muh china
Whataboutism.
You could move to india. Where people and animals are equal.
no method could be perfect and thats more humane than skinning them or boiling alive so of course ill “whatabout china”. enjoy the anemia and weakness
>boo hoo you're mean
cool, don't care
Don't care, humans are the dominant species. All other living beings bow to our will.
have you seen what happens to cows in the wild?
>TH-THATS DIFFERENT YOU CAN'T CONSIDER WILD ANIMALS TO WHAT HUMANS DO
I've been on farms and inside slaughterhouses, and I've gone camping and hunting for weeks at a time. I've also seen many nature documentaries on PBS...
Nothing I've seen happen on a farm or in a slaughterhouse compares to what I've seen nature do. Death in the wild is almost never swift and painless: vid related
I've watched a baboon rip a rabbit in half with it's bare hands. It was still alive even though it was split in half.
My grandma use to own chickens that we would collect eggs or kill to eat. They are dumb as frick and have no idea what's going on around them. Their entire species only exists because they are delicious.
>My grandma use to own chickens that we would collect eggs or kill to eat. They are dumb as frick and have no idea what's going on around them. Their entire species only exists because they are delicious.
Same, and they also kept chickens as pest control for their vegetable and herb gardens. I've seen those frickers eat mice
>no reason
they taste good
I rest my case
>YeahI beat that stray dog with a brick because it feels good, that’s all the justification I need
correct
People don't want to live around those who beat animals for fun, or have sex with animals.
Eating them is normal, however.
And the irony is that when people post chinks eating dogs they lose their shit.
>nooooooo not da poor doggo
But they have no problem eating pigs that are more intelligent than dogs, or cows which are beautifully sensitive creatures. Just more fricking hypocritical human standards of morality.
Yet you see a Black person punch an innocent white man to death for no reason and he a good boy who dindu nuffin. Frick off. You value a criminal invader's life over mine, so I'm gonna value my life over an animals. I eat meat, I have 4 pet dogs, and frick malnourished vegans that can't even lift an empty bar.
it's just a clump of motherfricking cells
I eat animals specifically because I know that they suffered to provide me sustenance.
quiet olivia
If you’re an Amerishart, eat more bison. Healthy, environmentally friendly, and they’re kinda buttholes so it’s cool.
Or you could just not eat meat, which is also cool, healthy, and environmentally friendly.
It's not cool or healthy. Enjoy your B12 deficiency
Why would you get a B12 deficiency? You do realize that most of the crap Americans eat is fortified with B12 and vitamin D, right? Not to mention a slew of other nutrients. If someone is eating a whole foods diet, then they would take a vitamin B12 supplement. I would've been dead already. I've been vegan for 16 years.
>Why would you get a B12 deficiency?
Because a human can get proper B12 only from animals/animal products.
>You do realize that most of the crap Americans eat is fortified with B12 and vitamin D, right
Yes, americans often eat heavily processed garbage. That's common knowledge.
>take a vitamin B12 supplement
Enjoy consuming big pharma pills and powders every single day, I choose actual food instead.
There is no such thing as 'proper' b12. You're talking about a nutrient that's synthesized by bacteria. When animals consume said bacteria, it's produced in their guts. If a person ate enough contaminated dirt, they'd get enough b12, or foods contaminated with dirt. We also used to get it from water, but now we sanitize our water. Nothing we do is natural anymore, so appealing to nature is fine, but ironic on your part. You can choose to do what you want, but acting like a vegan diet isn't sustainable for health reasons is absurd, especially if you're a first worlder. And talking about big pharma is a fricking joke in the context of a supplement when most of their money is made keeping obese meat eating homosexuals from dying of heart disease and diabetes.
>uhhhh there's no proper B12, we used to get it by eating dirt
fricking LMAO
Your brain is already melting from the lack of B12. Yes animals are able to consume said bacteria and their produce it in their guts, that's why we eat meat. Cow eats grass, we eat cow. Thanks cow for being so nutrient dense just from eating grass, woah I get dairy from you as well thanks again very cool.
And your water point is even more laughable, yeah bro people used to drink endless gallons of water per day to get their B12 am i rite, it's common knowledge that everyone had access to endless clean water every day am i rite lmao
You sound like a total ass. Do you know how miniscule the RDA for B12 is? You're a 'proper' dumbfrick. We produce it in our guts too, but it's too far down the intestine to be absorbed in any meaningful way. And yes, we did get it from water sources. I'm not implying it was a primary source. My point there was that we were, as ancient humans, consuming things that were contaminated. We foraged and ate meat. We also consumed fermented foods that contained b12, and we've been doing it for thousands of years. I'm not that concerned with the past though. I'm concerned with right now.
every vegan I know drinks monster or rockstar
If you actually cared about the environment, you’d promote and lobby for wild boar, nutria and other invasive species meat. Even more environmentally friendly than veganism.
That's not a viable alternative. An invasive species isn't an inexhaustible source of demand for meat. You might as well say, let's breed invasive species to eat them since they'd be considered invasive otherwise. Technically speaking, all factory farmed animals are invasive species because there's so fricking many of them that if they were to roam wild it would frick up the ecosystem.
Wild boar is already sold by meat by mail companies and several New Orleans chefs attempted to make nutria based dishes take off years ago. The only thing that doesn’t make it viable is public perception. To assume the supply would run out any time soon is extremely ambitious and would be an environmental positive even if it were to occur. Every dead nutria means dozens of square feet of swamp land spared. But that’s not as sexy as promoting avocado toast.
exactly so what do you think would happen if meat consumption was banned. all those farmers are not gonna keep the livestock on their farms when it's at financial loss. so they'll go free and ruin the natural ecosystems where they will eventually have to be killed off anyways. but at that point it will be for nothing. so stop being a morally grandstanding moron
>if you think morality is subjective
then you can make that assertion and I can make the opposite, that it's morally fine to eat meat, and our assertions are on equal footing.
>If you think morality is objective and you're an atheist
then I laugh in your face at your cognitive dissonance.
>If you think morality is objective and you're a theist
then it doesn't matter because my religion says eating meat is fine and mine is correct and yours is wrong
Hope that helps clear it up OP
What if you're a subjective theist?
See the second point
we don't need plants either, just eat mushrooms, honey and spend time in the sun you'll be fine
Animal protein and yummy.
I got some new full grain leather shoes last month and they are fan frickin tastic.
Do you look as gay as you talk? Post a pic of your hands.
I look like frickin Liberace.
Vegans are some of the most delusional two-faced mentally ill people you could encounter.
Fighting till death against the horrible conditions of chickens while at the same time pretending like the horrible conditions of underage underfed preteen little kids who make their shirts and assemble their iphones don't exist at all. Pretending like mass market land draining monoculture vegetable growing is "natural" and "organic", acting like Pedro gives a single frick about veganism and isn't killing and spraying thousands of insects, rodents and birds that get near his mono crops. Or that your precious avocado wasn't the product of mexican cartels extorting hundreds of mexican families.
Applying their arguments only for one side, for example all the frickload of ex vegans who stopped being vegan their """argument""" is that's because "they didn't do it properly", but they don't apply the same "eat properly" argument when talking about meat eaters and will frequently sell studies about obese amerilards eating nothing but pizza, ice cream and soda as standard meat eaters and yell CANCER HEART DISEASE YOU'LL DIE yeah no shit if you're shoving processed shit and sugar on the daily.
In short, champions of never ending confirmation bias mental gymnastics
Vegans don't control farming, clothing production, or any of the shit you're talking about. Would veganic farming end the death of some bugs and occasionally rodents? Probably not until some super high-tech shit came out, but the point is, do what you can and stop giving cop out answers like "oh I'll never be perfect so I might as well keep being a sadistic nihilistic homosexual."
Meat isn't an animal. Meat is a product. You can't be "sadistic" to it, just like you can't be sadistic to a shoe or a soup can. Meat is no more an animal than shit is food. Sure, shit is a part of the digestion process, but it ain't food. Meat is the product from an animal that has undergone slaughter, butchering, packaging, transportation and cooking. There is nothing sadistic about a humane death. Christ, we give our fellow humans humane deaths sometimes. But what, that humane death denies a cow the chance to live, what, 15 years, eating grass all day and shidding and farding? You know what, that doesn't really bother me. Would a good compromise for you be that we only eat animals that have died of old age, or of natural causes like a lightning bolt strikes them? I mean shit at that point I guess there really is no moral problem.
Well guess what, I say death by human is a natural cause because we get hungry and we need food. Meat is food. Yes, plants are food. So is meat. If we didn't need sustenance like some kind of plant person, but could still eat meat for enjoyment, would I choose not to? I might be more easily convinced in that situation. But that's not reality, so whatever.
It's not just that the animal's life is relatively short. We breed them into prisons to be chopped up and commodified like you say. That's disgusting. It's also a massive burden on our planet. You might say it's a pick one or the other scenario. Plant agriculture or Animal Agriculture. In either case, death is involved, but only one is done with intent to kill, and a business built on that does very little to negate the suffering involved. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with eating roadkill or animals that have died of 'natural' causes. If you are hunting animals, and that's your only source of meat, then I would have more respect for you, but not by much unless you were using a spear.
Newsflash, butthole: it's a brutal world. Just because we have a veneer of civilized society doesn't mean it's still not a rotten, brutal world. And it's literally never changing, especially our eating habits. Guess who wins the fight over continuing raising and slaughtering animals for food versus halting that practice? If the answer is the group that eats the flesh and blood of another animal to replenish our proteins and nutrients, and gaining power and strength from eating cooked flesh and muscle, congratulations! You picked the side that has won and will continue to win throughout history.
Wow, be more trite. Everything sucks and I can prove it, yadda, yadda, yadda. Something about nutrients. Your body doesn't distinguish between protein from a plant or from an animal. Animals need protein. Period. A protein is not a magical fairy molecule. It's made of amino acids. And those amino acids exist in virtually all life. What matters to us is how we can get them into our bodies, and because we're pretty smart, we know how to do it without meat, and if we didn't, we wouldn't be able to become interplanetary, which would make us a failure on cosmic scale.
>plant protein is identical to animal protein
moron alert
It is identical. Your conflating amino acids with protein PER SE. It's the amino acid profiles that are different, which is the point of eating a variety of food. You guys must be like 15.
>Your body doesn't distinguish between protein from a plant or from an animal.
fricking LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
No, but you need animo acids present in the food to help break it down and maintain a healthy culture in your stomach. You are being reductive and dismissive in stating "oh protein is protein" when yeah, you could (with more expense, prep time, and sourcing) equal protein total but you're still missing a bunch of other necessary elements food (specifically meat) simultaneously provides, and in a far more efficient, natural manner than eating synthetic shit.
More people are switching over to veganism every year, so I don't know why you think it will never change.
Too bad they don't live long enough to make a difference. Meat is forever. Meat is the natural order. Meat eaters are stronger and far more violent than plant eaters. If you try to block a meat eater from eating meat, they may decide you are meat to eat. Vegans are weak (and weak-minded) hippy idiots and do not matter in the world.
Heart disease is the number one killer and vegans have a much lower risk of contracting CVD.
>Meat is the natural order. Meat eaters are stronger and far more violent than plant eaters.
Gorillas, hippos, rhinos
>If you try to block a meat eater from eating meat, they may decide you are meat to eat. Vegans are weak (and weak-minded) hippy idiots and do not matter in the world.
Yes very scared of all those scary meat eaters at McDonalds and Walmart
An adult gorilla eats around 60 pounds of vegetation per day. 60 pounds of leaves, shoots and stems. Even tree bark.
You try doing that and report back.
He is a braindead vegan, don't bother explaining to him logic and nature of things. He will get emotional and seethe about it
>Heart disease is the number one killer and vegans have a much lower risk of contracting CVD.
"heart disease" and "cardiovascular disease" have an extreme correlation to bad genetics or you just being a specific race.
>Meat is the natural order. Meat eaters are stronger and far more violent than plant eaters.
Sub-Saharan African males are only more violent because they have the highest estrogen levels...
>Yes very scared
Not an argument.
>Do you have any human evidence that supplements don't work?
Yes it's been scientifically proven that natural non-adulterated sources of nutrition are superior to pharmaceutical sources of the same chemicals.
>Yes?
No. You don't know what feral means. Plus you're ok with destroying livestock which also destroys any argument you thought you had for being morally and ethically superior.
>Yes it's been scientifically proven that natural non-adulterated sources of nutrition are superior to pharmaceutical sources of the same chemicals.
Feel free to provide that evidence.
>Plus you're ok with destroying livestock which also destroys any argument you thought you had for being morally and ethically superior.
Not forcibly breeding =/= destroy. I don't get what's so difficult about this.
>Life is for the living.
ironic
> You seem weak
Yeah standing up for your beliefs is very weak. If only I was strong like you to eat burgers. So brave. So strong.
>A cow doesn't mourn your death and never will
Yes you can only help and protect something if they will give something back to me, very brave and noble of you.
It's been proven plants feel pain so you're no better chud
Life is for the living. You seem weak. You also seem fey and womanly. You should eat a steak and stop being such a pussy. A cow doesn't mourn your death and never will. I can only imagine what a cucked pathetic wimp you are in real life to espouse your hippy nonsense.
Yes. Also
Who fricking cares about animals? Like the other poster said, they're just tastier walking plants as far as I'm concerned. A cow from 20,000 years ago is gonna be the same dumb cow on the farm today. Animals are just food to us, unless they got charm like dogs or a cool attitude like cats. Hell, I'd love to have a pet duck myself. But I'll also just as soon eat duck as well because, you know, it's just a duck and I'm a hungry human.
Meat tastes good
Cope, seethe and dilate
Frick nature. Go step outside into your backyard at night. See that? Darkness. Cold. That's nature. 90% of the water on this planet is undrinkable. Either filled with salt or ass eating parasites. If you get sneezed on, you can die. You make plans for your life, then a tree falls on you or you slip on some ice and now you're a potato person. Or shit, maybe your body will just start self destructing for literally no reason because frick you I guess.
Most wild animals spend their entire existence cold, hungry and frightened. The milk I drink comes from cows that get at least 100 days a year outside. That's more than I get. Frick this reality. The problem isn't meat eating. The problem is hiring low IQ subhumans into the meat preparation field. If the whole thing really was all sunshine and rainbows and perfect and every animal free roams and is quickly and humanely slaughtered, well gee, that sure would be swell wouldn't it? Whatever.
Veganism is just not healthy, simple as
Sounds like you have a simple brain.
Nope. I eat meat and healthy fats.
Human beings have one stomach and pointed canines, we're not meant to eat grass. Get over yourself you troony vegan, I bet your anemic.
eating animals is okay this is explained in The Circle of Life in the Lion King
>you die
>you become grass
>cow eats grass
>we're even steven
simple
So this morally indefensible thing is conditional on circumstance. What a strong moral high ground you've got there!
The only morally indefensible thing is the factory farm. Otherwise, domestication is a two-way street and a contract we have with animals. Animals eating other animals is the natural order. Insofar as morality makes any sense in this discussion, it is the background of all moral claims. Things eat other things because things eat things. It is not at all a matter of ought, but how. The ought arguments are for ideologues and moralists alone, who in my view should have no place in the discussion around food, but will impose themselves one way or the other.
>domestication is a two-way street and a contract we have with animals
nothing wrong with domestication
>Animals eating other animals is the natural order
So it rape and infanticide. Weird how thats an issue with society. Almost like we pick and choose and aren't morally consistent.
>BUT WHAT ABOUT...
Why is it only veganism that brings out this moronation. If I said "hey let's stop raping kids" nobody would say "BUT WHAT ABOUT STARVING KIDS??? " It's only veganism where people have to be perfect.
>muh crop deaths
More crops are fed to livestock and those deaths aren't the same. Humans also die in all food production, doesn't that make us all equal morally to a serial killer since we are doing actions which involve human death?
>I choose actual food instead.
What is the mechanical difference between getting B12 from cows milk or B12 from fortified plant milk? You literally buy both from the same part of the grocery store.
>So it rape and infanticide
moronic conflation. Rape and infanticide happen, but not always and necessarily. Necessarily and always, things eat things.
>but not always and necessarily
Not what you said, you said natural order and either way you are wrong. It's why corked and barbed penis exist.
>Necessarily and always, things eat things.
Herbivorous animals don't. Humans don't need to. Either way you're trying to do an appeal to nature fallacy which is just moronic on its own.
Being a vegan means being anti-human. Fact.
The end result of any vegan moral or ethical argument is literally the death of humans. Yes you eating less is "better for the environment", but what is even better for the environment than that? Not having a child.
No matter the life principles of how a human lives, he has to take and use resources in order to strive. The end result is that all humans "harm the environment" by default, no matter are you vegan or not. And eating or not meat is miniscule when compared to having or not having a child.
Soon the vegan agenda of "we can feed the entire world!!" will turn into "don't feed anyone with more than 1 child per family"
Being vegan means being anti-animal, since the same logic that says animal husbandry is wrong also says you should eliminate all the animals.
It's just elementary school-tier sophistry but practiced by adult women because they have the minds of children.
You cannot defend eating animals in the modern age without also defending someone killing stray puppies for fun
It’s ogre meatbros
Meat tastes good. Dumb animals ain't doing anything else productive. What, are they gonna become school bus drivers and factory workers? Oh, they'll literally just stand in a fricking field looking blankly at the world before keeling over after a few decades? And they can't communicate intelligently and have no emotions or feelings, just instinct? Cool. I'll take Bessie over there. Hurry up, I'm hungry!
What does abolishing death and suffering accomplish?
You can't abolish it, you can only minimize it. Ecologically speaking, it'd be better for the planet not to fish our oceans dry and have billions of animals, their guts and feces contaminating our water and being sprayed into the air.
>their guts and feces contaminating our water
how removed from reality are you? what do you think happened in the ocean even before humans existed?
do you think when another animal "spreys guts and feces" of another animal while eating it they make sure to clean and sterilize it all afterwards? man you're moronic lmao
You're the dumbest person in this thread. We breed more animals into existence than would otherwise be here. I'm guessing you're ESL too. Go worship your weird cultural staple meal your nana makes you to make you feel like a special boy. Probably some kind of borscht cooked in placenta extract.
yeah bro fish guts in the ocean is the problem am i rite. not to mention that most of land from the sterilized sprayed mono crops is dead soil exactly because animals aren't eating and pooping on it. in fact people literally make dead soil healthy again by putting a bunch of chickens there and letting them eat and poop there kek
man you're spectacularly out of touch and moronic it's hilarious lmao
Stop being a moron and talking about wild fish shitting and dying where they live. Are you Indian? And the irony is that the majority of monocrops are used to feed farm animals. Do you know how impossible it would be to feed 50 billion chickens, millions of cattle,1 billion pigs, 2 billion sheep and goats, every fricking year, WITHOUT monocrops? Get your head out of your shitcutter, ESL.
>because we no longer need to eat animals to survive
LOL what changed? We evolved 50,000 years in 500 years?
Yeah, it's called technology, which agriculture is an extension of. There is no dietary requirement for meat, it's just a source we had to depend on before we controlled the planet.
A pound of beef has about 78g of protein. Humans on average need between 64 and 80g of protein a day. To match that, you would need to eat a far larger amount of lower-protein food, which would be more expensive and difficult to source (and requires even more manufacturing, shipping, etc to produce more varied sources of protein). And even then a lot of that food wouldn't have the amino acids and nutrients a pound of beef would provide.
No, it's quite cheap to combine rice and beans with vegetables or lentils, etc. Grains are the cheapest foods on the planet, which is why it's very easy to feed them to farm animals. I eat two or three times a day, 2500 calories, well over 50g of protein. And it's 56g of protein for sedentary men, and 46g of protein for sedentary women.
Seitan and TVP are both cheaper and have just as much protein as beef. All while being much better for the environment and is actually self stable.
Most of that plant garbage is not bioavailable, and you have to cook it to be even be able to digest it somewhat. Meanwhile 100% of beef is bioavailable, you can even eat it raw
>Most of that plant garbage is not bioavailable
Wrong.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6358922/pdf/sports-07-00012.pdf
>https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/8/2382/htm
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33905293/
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7312446/
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33599941/
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33599941/
>you have to cook it to be even be able to digest it somewhat.
Wrong. TVP just needs to be re-hydrated in water, or hell you can even it eat crunchy raw. Seitan while not as good, can be eaten raw.
>Wrong.
I said a literal fact. Plants are less bioavailable than meat, fact.
What do you think fiber is? Quite literally reduces bioavailability. And plants are full of fiber. Everything I said is a fact.
You said "most". Which is not true.
Lmao okay guess I can justify cannablism then. What? you think you're better than me because you don't kill and eat humans? Everything has to die for our food!
I never claimed to think it’s morally acceptable to eat human beings. Just that you’re a childish idiot if you think you aren’t still part of the same cycle of life and death as the rest of us just because you choose salad over steak.
are you really too dense to understand that eating a tomato and eating a dog are not the same thing?
>the world is bad and you can change nothing hurr
is just a lazy and moronic cope
Okay so you’re actually moronic. Got it.
I don't even understand what your point is. Are you saying nothing matters because we are all going to die anyway? Or that there is actually no difference between eating a salad and killing a cow to eat it?
Most plants do have fiber though
>Lmao okay guess I can justify cannablism then.
Yes
>Hey meat is extremely easy, available, natural, and better
>Yeah but eat this awful garbage shit instead
>But that's not really easily available
>(Posts a bunch of moronic links nobody is going to click on)
>Yes it is! Except it's not, oh and also it tastes terrible and is unappealing. So go out of your way to eat a lot of this awful shit and pretend it can replace the benefits of meat!
Yes. If you are made of meat and cut off my meat supply, you will become my meat supply. Vegans are such weak pussies they have forgotten the natural order, which is might equals right. And people who eat meat are far more physically powerful and energetic (and aggressive) than tofu gays. Sorry, vegans are deer and meat eaters are lions. Veganism is a group of deer trying to convince the lion to eat 10,000 blades pf grass instead of one of them. Guess what the lion has decided since the beginning of time?
>Hey meat is extremely easy, available, natural, and better
Deforesting massive amounts of rainforest to grow food to feed, raise and shelter livestock for a quarter of the calories to then process and transport them is not "easy, available, natural, and better" compared to just growing plants and processing/eating them directly.
It's also a neutral taste so it tastes as good as you can season it, so saying it tastes bad is wrong.
>Yes. If you are made of meat and cut off my meat supply, you will become my meat supply. Vegans are such weak pussies they have forgotten the natural order, which is might equals right. And people who eat meat are far more physically powerful and energetic (and aggressive) than tofu gays. Sorry, vegans are deer and meat eaters are lions. Veganism is a group of deer trying to convince the lion to eat 10,000 blades pf grass instead of one of them. Guess what the lion has decided since the beginning of time?
You're a b***h who is a slave to his taste buds and abuses the weak and vulnerable. You won't do shit.
>Deforesting massive amounts of rainforest to grow food
Why are you blaming me for what brown people do to their environment? Do you make the same exact arguments against lithium-ion batteries? OMG THINK OF ALL THE MILLIONS OF DEAD CHINESE PEOPLE FROM THE MASSIVE ALKALAI LAKES AND DEFORESTED DEAD ZONES
you're probably using a chinese laptop with chinese batteries that were shipped across the ocean on a chinese diesel powered barge and you want to talk about USA's domesticated livestock... GET FRICKED
Lol, fricking sowed him up there. These gays are all about buh buh muh environment! Until you throw in their face all the awful shit their supposed "good" side does, then radio silence. This queer will probably fence-sit this usse, decrying both practices. So I guess this moron thinks we can all just lay around motionless and get our energy from the sun and water and grass. You know, like the fricking cattle in the field.
not him but why does it matter? On a pure life level millions of cows and chickens and such getting killed in bad conditions on a factory line is worse than some asiatic kid burning his fingers on a soldering iron. They're both not ideal but if you kill one person through carelessness it doesn't mean it's morally the same to kill two. We should all try to untangle ourselves from the hypocrisies that every living person with any kind of morality is inevitably going to be part of.
>not him but why does it matter?
It's in the word: humane. The fact you care more about non-humans than humans means you are inhumane. You would cause human suffering to ease what you allege is animal suffering.
It matters because if you think hunting down wild animals is more humane than domesticating and raising livestock you are both ill informed and dangerously misguided in spreading your ideals.
Nature is inherently violent and I challenge you to prove otherwise, or that domesticated livestock face a worse death than wild animals.
>being a worker in a slaughterhouse is known to cause serious psychological damages
Prove it. You're just making shit up like "you can get all your nutrients from pharmaisraelite pills".
Well I kind of inserted myself into whatever discussion you were having before, I'd certainly place one human's life over one animal's life. I wouldn't say they face a worse moment of death but they certainly face a worse life in factory farming. I don't know why that has to really be an 'alleged' thing, I've seen it it's not pleasant. I'm not making a practical worldly argument here since I have the resources myself to be vegan if I wanted and by not doing it I'm morally compromising myself, that's all I can claim. I don't know what the solution for the whole world would be outside of lab grown meat.
As for the psychological issues thing, just google it, it comes right up.
>they certainly face a worse life in factory farming
living in the wild is 10000000x worse than being fed and kept safe from the wild...
The statement is false period.
>rationalize:
>to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes
Stop trying to manipulate people thinking we can't look up the meanings of words and stuff.
You lack the ability to stop anthropomorphizing animals. Stop it. They aren't us. You seem mental at this point.
Good rebuttal, Q.
Animals are dumb emotionless creatures that live on instinct. It's almost as if they were created for humans to consume easily. Our digestion and physicality respond extremely positively to a meat diet. Because we are the smartest animals on the planet and will do what we want. Who cares? You must be one of those moronic gays that believe in climate change.
>You're a b***h who is a slave to his taste buds and abuses the weak and vulnerable. You won't do shit.
So you have no counter-argument to my extremely simple example of why vegans will never ever win. Meet me on the streets and say that, vegan gay, if your wife's boyfriend lets you out of the house. Or you have the energy to walk down the street. Keep arguing to lions, deer. We're sharpening our knives as you bleat. Pathetic.
Logistics and technology. Vitamins like B12 can easily be obtained from supplements, sources of proteins and other vitamins and nutrients that are no-animal alternatives are easily obtainable from markets
so why do vegans look so grossly ill after significant time eating that way?
>vitamins
>easily obtainable
easily obtainable in a processed raw chemical form sure... that means they are essentially useless in the body. you should read about chemistry and digestion.
Hi moron. Do you have any human evidence that supplements don't work?
Yes? Do you understand how supply and demand works? As supply drops less animals will be bred and eventually we can just put the rest into sanctuaries which already exist. And FYI "MURDER all the livestock" is currently happening so it's funny that you think thats somehow crazy or bad.
i'm not vegetarian but i do have some qualms with factory farm conditions. but because humanity keeps growing and demand will never shrink it's not going to go away.
Ethical vegan anons, why are you not enjoying yourself a few delicious mussels or oysters every once in a while?
If you don't eat meat/fish because they feel pain/emotions/bad for environment, why don't you eat mussels, oysters or scallops?
They are the closest "animal" to a plant, no pain receptors no brain no nothing, they are literally just a functioning nervous system and nothing else. And farming any of them is highly sustainable and safe with practically zero danger of ruining the eco system, in fact farming them is actually highly beneficial for the environment because of their filtering of the water.
Packed in protein, minerals, B12 vitamins, omegas, basically perfect food for a vegan. If morals are the only thing why you are a vegan then there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't eat them.
Honestly, they just gross me out. I don't like eating gross food.
I do. I'm ostrovegan
Every living thing relies on the death of something else in order to continue living. No matter what you choose to subsist on, many many things died in order for it to be possible. Ideally that death would be as humane as we can make it, but to suggest you are of a higher moral caliber because of how you pick and choose which death to consume is naive and pompous.
>there is no distinction between anything, be lazy like me
Making distinctions in pursuit of some kind of greater truth, and making distinctions based on what makes you feel better about yourself are two very different things. One is admirable while the other is moronic.
veganism is a thinly-veiled eating disorder masquerading as a moral and health-based lifestyle choice. its anecdotal obviously but a few people I worked with and knew in my neighborhood that claimed to be vegan either didnt hold strict to their “beliefs” since it was a virtue-signaling facade or went back to meat and dairy because they looked like fricking skeletons.
Consuming enough calories to live isn't an eating disorder. Of the 2% of vegans on the planet, how many of them do you think have an actual eating disorder, putting your biases aside? Ironically, obesity is NOT considered an eating disorder, but 650 million people are obese, and of those 650 million, how many do you think are vegan?
Obesity isn’t automatically indicative of an eating disorder because enjoying good food is natural, and so it’s expected for a bunch of people to overeat when food is wildly abundant for them. Veganism on the other hand does kind of follow a similar pattern as other psychological disorders in that it’s represented by a small percentage of the population, and the number grows whenever the topic gets more public attention. I don’t know if I would personally call it an eating disorder but I can see how someone might classify it like that.
>shifting the goalposts to muh obesity in meat-eater only
you can absolutely eat a balanced diet that includes meat and animal products without being a complete trainwreck in the health department, while a vegan can drink sugar-filled beverages and a ton of junkfoods devoid of animal products.
name 3 vegans who are fat
im not sending a picture of my dumbass midwest aunt and her kids who use toms toothpaste and go to the doctor every other week for another “mystery ailment” but ill let you know they sure love those bullshit Tates cookies!
Morals are subjective.
>we no longer need to eat animals to survive
Not true. Vegetarian diets can (and eventually will) kill you.
You're right that there's no reason for "crueler than necessary" methods of killing or raising. But that boils down to fixing the "corporate farming" system.
Vegetarian can still be ok if you at least eat eggs and dairy. Veganism is just straight up moronic though
All diets eventually kill you. Vegetarians tend to have lower disease risk and all cause mortality risk.
>if I don't pay farmers to forcibly breed and kill animals, then farmers will stop forcibly breeding and killing animals
>I am very intelligent
>if we stop domestication we will become more advanced
>step1) MURDER all the livestock
>step2) ...
>step3) ...
>step4) profit!
>Yuo are le dumbby!
Vegans are brainwashed, any argument they use is an attempt to apply the same brainwashing techniques that worked on them to you.
I'm an omnivore. I have the dentition to grind a very limited amount of plants, and all forms of meat.
I can "morally defend" my actions because the food I eat only exists because I do. I eat domesticated animals, and I only hunt deer, elk, turkey, pheasant and quail. If I don't eat the chickens, cows, and pigs that I have paid farmers to maintain domestication that would be morally indefensible.
How can you defend eating my food's food? What type of morality allows you to believe starving yourself and forcing others like me to suffer the same has any benefits to anything other than your own ego? You look like you have AIDS and you're as emotionally fragile as a 10yo girl. Sort yourself out.
The meatbros are unironically using the “plants feel pain too” argument
I would like to remind everyone that there is no meatbro on the planet who genuinely believes stepping on grass is morally equivalent to curb stomping a puppy
I would put this on just to hear Rooney say some words tbh. I doubt she’s even that hardcore of a vegan, she was happy to smoke on the set of that Mary Magdalene film while her husband was on the cross.
wow nice you are so morally superior :O
Now go eat your basedslop or salad or even kys homosexual, I will still eat yummy meat from those animals and I will be more healthy than you will ever be.
Slaughtered animal flesh? Yes please 😀
Vegans it's pretty fricking simple, if you genuinely believe meat gives us turbocancer and that we will all die prematurely, then the only thing we have to do is to continue eating meat and go extinct while the oh so superior, healthier and of course stronger vegans strive and conquer.
But something tells me you actually don't really believe that at all
I don't abide by pseudo-moralities
If you can walk into a slaughterhouse, look around, and not be shook by it you're psychopathic simple as that. And just by being phased by it at all is a basic moral implication. It's really not that complicated, vegans have it right. I'm just too lazy to be one.
>If you can walk into a slaughterhouse, look around, and not be shook by it you're psychopathic simple as that.
If you can't put a hook through a worm, fish around and gut your catch, and not be shook by it you're childlike woman simple as that.
>Feel free to provide that evidence.
It's call bioavailability. Google it before you die from lack of healthy fats in your brain you dumb fricking plant eater.
I don't care about fish they're little monsters barely more cognizant than insects, cows are cool mammals like me
>It's call bioavailability.
Supplements are bioavailable and the ones that are less tend to be overdosed to compensate for it.
>Google it
Thats what I thought. You're speaking out of your emotional ass with no actual evidence.
>weak bones? just eat this calcium supplement goyim!
>oh you can't absorb calcium without magnesium? it's your lucky day we sell magnesium supplements too!
>oh you need some zinc now? for the low low price of extra money we most certainly sell zinc supplements to get you fixed right up in a jiffy!
I make snake oil. I promise it will cure you of being a homosexual in one dose...
I used to be a pescapescatarian (i only ate fish that only ate other fish), but now I'm on a general see-food diet: if I see food that I want to eat I eat it.
being a worker in a slaughterhouse is known to cause serious psychological damages that fishing does not. Whether you make the equivalence or you don't it's basically right there coded into our brains that that shit is evil.
> it's basically right there coded into our brains that that shit is evil.
Right because a lion feels terrible when he kills it's prey. Humans are predators, they don't give a frick what they kill.
Yeah, if we do murder to other people. I've genocided insects and wouldn't hesitate shooting a deer's brains out if I was hungry and wanted meat. Because animals aren't humans. Human life is sacred; the rest, not so much.
I specifically watched gruesome slaughterhouse footage in my early 20s because I wanted to see if I could still eat meat after I saw how it was made. Turns out I could. I'm not a psychopath; in fact, I'm an honest carnivore. Would I want to work in a slaughterhouse? No. But I saw how they do it in graphic detail and my reaction was, meh. Good. I get meat now. Who fricking cares about Identical Cow #30945673357734668? What, they gonna write me a letter of recommendation? No, but they fed families, contributed to a profitable and vital industry, and kept us all going. Thanks, cow! You, single cow that I ate a delicious steak from, did more for me directly than any elected representative ever has! If anything, it gives animals purpose in man's world. What else would we do with these non-human morons that can't even think or talk?
Yeah so could I, I didn't say seeing it made me stop eating meat. But I'm a human whose brain is very capable of shielding itself from negative thoughts like seeing the process versus eating the burger after. It's a hypocrisy, fundamentally because all of this
>Good. I get meat now. Who fricking cares about Identical Cow #30945673357734668? What, they gonna write me a letter of recommendation? No, but they fed families, contributed to a profitable and vital industry, and kept us all going. Thanks, cow! You, single cow that I ate a delicious steak from, did more for me directly than any elected representative ever has! If anything, it gives animals purpose in man's world. What else would we do with these non-human morons that can't even think or talk?
is pure rationalization - assuming you had negative emotions at some point watching those videos that is. And rationalization implies an acknowledgment of wrong. If you didn't feel anything at any point, then back to square one, you are indeed a psycho.
>rationalization implies an acknowledgment of wrong
no it doesn't you fricking israelite
That statement is only false if you truly didn't feel any negative emotion watching those videos. Which is pretty fricking nuts to be honest. Nobody would blame you for rationalizing otherwise - it's what healthy people are supposed to do.
Weird you think that way, that rationalization= psychopathy, but maybe you're a rapist that justifies it that way or a thief who uses such psychological delusion to rationalize. But in truth the biggest regret that ever crossed my mind was wondering why it was taking so long for my fricking burger. Do not equivocate the extremely removed, dispassionate method of extermination of what is essentially a large meaty bug brain power-wise with a human. That makes you seem psychopathic, in a way. You equivocate human life to a dumb pig for slaughter? Disgusting. I will not follow that line of thought as it equals us no more than animals. When was ths last time a chicken built a skyscraper? Or did nothing more than be chicken #93564377335703 in the world?
God gave humanity dominion over the animals. Animals don't have souls. They exist purely to be eaten and used as tools for humans.
homosexuals need to deal with it.
I do not know why this is so confusing to people. How many thousands of years since it was written
>Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image and likeness. And let them rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the tame animals, over all the earth, and over all the small crawling animals on the earth." - Genesis 1:26
Who the frick do you think this world is for? Cows? Pigs? Wake up. We are the things that don't " fit in" with this perfectly created world. Why? Because it was specifically made for us. Damn, people are stupid.
I only eat smart food. So, just pork and octopus for me.
veganism isn't bad if it's part of your traditional culture like in parts of india but if your culture isn't traditionally vegan and you become vegan because of gay vegan arguments that's bad because you are undermining your own culture and people and the way of your ancestors which will lead to your culture being dissolved and you all becoming gay bugmen basedboys with mental illness
Vegans can eat a dick. I will continue to harvest my own meat and there ain't a damn thing you can do to stop me, pic related. PS: She was delicious.
They're not human, so objective morality doesn't apply to them. We can do with them whatever the frick we want.
reminded me to eat bbq thanks. Loved this movie ate ribs during it.
What if I want to not just survive, but thrive? Serious question here. Forget bodybuilding and athleticism and all that assorted autism for a second. What if I want to be able to lift a moderate, everyday ammount of weight easily, like a heavily packed suitcase, or half a fridge with someone else? Say 35-50kg? What if I want to move a bookcase to vaccuum behind it without needing to unload and then replace all the books? What if I want to walk up a long flight of stairs without getting gassed? What if I want to avoid becoming anemic? What if I want to be able to keep up with my children to play with them? What if I want to be able to maintain the necessary erection to produce those children?
Will I achieve this with lentils and tofu running through my veins? You know what, don’t even bother giving me your plant-based milk fuelled answers. This question was rhetorical. I already have the answer:
Lol. Lmao. Of course I won’t be able to. Get some pork on your fork you gay fricking communists.
not the heckin cutie patootie farmerino animalinos you'll do me a frighten!
>mfw when I didn't fall for the documentary meme
I don't see any problems with eating animals
It's how we arrive at that neat package of meat that's the problem
Personally I don't have a problem knowing that the slab of meat before me involved the killing of an animal
I know that animals suffer horribly from their earliest memories all the way to the point that they get slaughtered but I like the taste of meat so I'm not going to stop eating it
I wish it were economically viable to slaughter animals in a way that they aren't aware of the death around them and feeling incredibly stressed
Factory farming is immoral. If you dont know how to hunt and/fish youre unnatural. A proper lung/heart shot or severring the spinal column is the most painless and humane death an animal can experience.
The alternatives are starving to death, dying of disease/infection/exposure or being eaten alive
>be a vegan
>see a 44 gallon drum of industrial chemicals
>think damn this is better food than animal products
Why are they like this?
Because they are weak.
True, and this is proven by the fact that there was no sign of vegetarianism/veganism prior to the industrial revolution.
It is weird. Their "alternative options" are extremely shaky regarding production and widespread availability, and seems way less sustainable than the eon-long practice of animal hunting, dressing, treating, and consumption of protein-rich animals, who are everywhere and you kill this dumb fricking thing that has no memory or any feelings above instinct. And these morons still think eating 5 lbs of lentil beans can even equal a half pound of beef. Weak homosexuals that will die the first moment anything ever weakens. Most likely the moment red meat stops being available. These morons are just deer that don't know they're deer.
Yep, the huge irony is they are actual cattle or livestock for the elites.
>2008 Olivia Munn mogs all
If the entire population stopped eating animals, they would suffer immeasurably more than they already do. These animals have been bred to reproduce as much as possible, their numbers would balloon so exponentially if we stopped eating them that the food they eat would be exhausted in no time. If we just naively turned these hordes of dairy animals loose and said "Run free!" it would create an ecological and environmental disaster of such massive proportions that it would make industiralized farming look like nothing. There would be mountains of dead rotting carcasses lining ever major highway, without exaggeration. Sheep have been genetically bred to produce so much wool that they will literally be unable to walk if it is not regularly shorn. Dairy cows have udders so massive and unwieldy that they can hardly walk. Chickens have been engineered to have such massive breasts that they can't even move around on their own without getting tired. All of these creatures would be completely helpless in the wild and they would all die, so the only difference is their meat and byproducts would go to waste.
Industrialized farming is not a switch that can be flipped on and off. It must be scaled back, gradually. You vegetarians and vegans insist on swearing off of meat entirely rather than lobbying for actual practical solutions to these problems because at best you're extremely naive and at worst you don't actually care about the well being of animals in any real or applicable sense, rather you don't eat meat because of how it makes you feel about yourself. Which, let's be honest, is the main reason people donate to charity or why anyone does much of anything. You want to *feel* like a good person, and that's good enough, and it's less work than actually being one. Whether or not you're actually having any real positive effect or changing the world around you for the better is not important to you.
Life is intrinsically linked with death. In order for you to live, things around you have to die. That doesn't go away if you eat bean sprouts for your entire life. We know that plant life collects data that could be interpreted as feeling, that they react to and assess damage in a way that is arguably synonymous with experiencing pain. You can not live and have a life while leaving no footprint of any kind. What you're doing by going vegan is you're tackling an incredibly complex philosophical and existential problem with a simplistic, juvenile, childish solution.
It's like trying to stop a war by swearing off of uniforms.
Silence, degenerate vegan.
Go vegan today
I'm having ginger pork tonight. It's gonna be dope.
I've literally never met a non-homosexual vegan. I'm convinced they don't exist. I've genuinely met more sane trannies than I have sane vegans.