I think OP is surprised that animations cels are crisper and some colors are different before being transferred to film and then broadcast over the airwaves and then digitized.
Literally yes, you can think that it's more to it than that, but distortion and effects add a lot to music, and visual art. It's nothing
This is even it's own field of art described as textural art.
This is why zoomers are obsessed with analog technology.
Even they're self aware that digital is too clean, too soulless, it removes a free space for adding extra integrity to your work.
>the pixelart CRT things that started floating a around some years ago
what? people talked about this pretty much at the moment emulators were invented, because pixel perfect looked like ass and people memory of those "old" snes and genesis games was still fresh in their mind.
>what? people talked about this pretty much at the moment emulators were invented, because pixel perfect looked like ass and people memory of those "old" snes and genesis games was still fresh in their mind.
That's just weird autist. It usually still looked fine. Tvs were already getting pretty crisp. It was more something about the refresh rate causing the Genny to make extra colors and fake transparency. But even that was ok compared to paying for games
[...]
Honestly it's rare as hell for companies to hang onto cels in good enough condition for as long as The Simpsons has been a thing, they often give them away, sell them or trash them, or they just get ruined by one thing or another.
They’ll never officially announce “we didn’t bother to keep track of or properly store any of the film reels after the episodes were edited onto video so a lot of the original HD footage is gone forever” but I’ve heard that’s what happened, Fox looked into it at one point and found nowhere near enough to bother pursuing it as a project.
Nickelodeon somehow has the original cels for their shows.
I’m under the impression studios copy cels and give them to people who work on the show and they would sell it.
[...]
Honestly it's rare as hell for companies to hang onto cels in good enough condition for as long as The Simpsons has been a thing, they often give them away, sell them or trash them, or they just get ruined by one thing or another.
I don't think you need the original cels. I think there's a master copy or something that gets created from the original cels. That's what they use to make the DBZ blurays. This is from a 16MM or 32MM copy.
For practical intents and purposes all analog animation was shot on film, which can be scanned into digital HD
The issue comes with whether the episodes were edited on film (meaning a complete copy exists on a reel, easy to archive) or if they were edited on video (standard def, meaning to get an HD copy of the episode you’d have to find all the raw footage and reconstruct the original editing)
Simpsons would be the latter
Honestly it's rare as hell for companies to hang onto cels in good enough condition for as long as The Simpsons has been a thing, they often give them away, sell them or trash them, or they just get ruined by one thing or another.
FILM MASTERS!, god dammit, we been trough this many times!, what you are thinking, are the film materials.
[...]
I don't think you need the original cels. I think there's a master copy or something that gets created from the original cels. That's what they use to make the DBZ blurays. This is from a 16MM or 32MM copy.
They’ll never officially announce “we didn’t bother to keep track of or properly store any of the film reels after the episodes were edited onto video so a lot of the original HD footage is gone forever” but I’ve heard that’s what happened, Fox looked into it at one point and found nowhere near enough to bother pursuing it as a project.
For practical intents and purposes all analog animation was shot on film, which can be scanned into digital HD
The issue comes with whether the episodes were edited on film (meaning a complete copy exists on a reel, easy to archive) or if they were edited on video (standard def, meaning to get an HD copy of the episode you’d have to find all the raw footage and reconstruct the original editing)
Simpsons would be the latter
Cels are very rare as they got washed and reused after a shoot. This is the whole DIPP affair in Roger Rabbit.
But you can't expect normal people to know this.
>they often give them away, sell them or trash them >mfw that story where some guy asked reddit about these things he found tucked in a puzzle box he bought at goodwill and they turned out to be old Disney cels that got cleared out when the animator died and nobody looked in the puzzle box before handing it off >mfw it could just as easily ended up in the trash at several points
They’ll never officially announce “we didn’t bother to keep track of or properly store any of the film reels after the episodes were edited onto video so a lot of the original HD footage is gone forever” but I’ve heard that’s what happened, Fox looked into it at one point and found nowhere near enough to bother pursuing it as a project.
I always see people post cel comparisons like this and I just assume the original cel got lighter due to it sitting out fir who knows how long. I mean, cmon, it's not like the colors would've stayed the same for years
I guess it's just from the way they record them I mean the cels are physical and they're being recorded by a machine, right? I guess the camera or whatever changes it like how a camera can warp an image depending on lenses or whatever. Not like digital art where it pretty much always stays the same.
>Not like digital art where it pretty much always stays the same.
debatable, put several screens next to each other and you notice that unlike printing there's basically no standard in the rgb rendition technologie.
this
one time there was this drawing of a girl in black clothes and a little ribbon. I noticed the ribbon had the same color as skin and wondered if the artist merely didn't wanted to get another color out for this drawing. Everyone called me a moron for pointing this out. Then I took out my phone and looked at the image on there, and noticed that the ribbon, while similar to skin color, was clearly a different color.
It just looked the same on my laptop compared to most peoples phone screens.
To clear things up for anyone confused about how cel animation worked to the best of my understanding. Cels are the physical medium that the artists draw/paint on. These are then put together under a camera which takes a picture that is added to a film reel with each frame of animation needing a new cel. Once this and any other reels are edited into the final product, the finished reel is referred to as a master. Generally, this master is what is kept for the future and cels are gotten rid of in one way or another. From there the master is copied and that copy (or copies) is copied with these being distributed to broadcasters, theaters, home media etc. Generally, between these steps, resolution will be reduced, and colors can shift due to limitations in technology. Ideally animators would account for this when making the cels so it can be a bit tricky to determine what the "correct" colors are.
The colors are different and lighter, that's just a fact. Mastering on tape naturally darkens the colors. When the DCAU switched to all-digital halfway through Batman Beyond it made the entire show brighter and it remained that way through Justice League when enough fans complained about how everything was way too bright now (even though they were using the same colors, just digital instead of ink and paint) so they went with darker colors from season 2 onwards to compensate.
Maybe they're using the cel as a color reference. Colors fade so they might not know what it's suppose to look like.
9 months ago
Anonymous
It happens across the board with every show that was transferred to tape. When they remaster a cartoon that was only ever mastered on film, it looks the same but more detailed.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Is the remaster in your pic from the bluray that came out a few months ago? His skin looks kinda too pink.
It's called color spaces, not only are they different from media to media but also from transfer to transer and from screen to screen. In companies that care about that shit there are entire engineering teams in charge of managing color spaces. Taht comparison you posted doesn't mean anything as to what the "real" color is supposed to be, either could be the original intention, or neither
A show from the 80s and 90s would have to be incredibly popular to make it worth the cost. It's easier to do it with shows made before or after that time if they kept the film masters, but during those two decades where they mastered on tape to save money on mailing film canisters, they would have to pay for the cost of editing and post-production all over again.
myy eyes used o hurt a lot
it got so bd i couldnt keep hem open past 6 pm
one day i woke up and i was crying blood from my right eye
then the pain stop but when i saw everything i drew before that everything in he righ half of the papper was zoomed in
it was split perfectly in he middle, i drew a portrait and he right half was zoomed in
and i couldnt tell, o me boh halves loked exactly the same before
explain how
I think OP is surprised that animations cels are crisper and some colors are different before being transferred to film and then broadcast over the airwaves and then digitized.
so that means soul is actually just old film broadcasted over waves onto old tvs? damn... that's rough
makes sense, the technology of that time was more soulful
Literally yes, you can think that it's more to it than that, but distortion and effects add a lot to music, and visual art. It's nothing
This is even it's own field of art described as textural art.
This is why zoomers are obsessed with analog technology.
Even they're self aware that digital is too clean, too soulless, it removes a free space for adding extra integrity to your work.
it doesn't help that cell paint isn't meant to stay stable over time.
money can be exchanged for goods and services
heh
Turns out that's Lenny as the tree in the back.
Why didn’t The Simpsons get money from the bear?
Maggie gave it to Burns for free
Is it a good ending or a bad ending?
You should know, they draw the colors on the original cels expecting them to look different on tv. It's all calculated and shit
I imagine it's a bit like the pixelart CRT things that started floating a around some years ago
pretty much
>the pixelart CRT things that started floating a around some years ago
what? people talked about this pretty much at the moment emulators were invented, because pixel perfect looked like ass and people memory of those "old" snes and genesis games was still fresh in their mind.
>what? people talked about this pretty much at the moment emulators were invented, because pixel perfect looked like ass and people memory of those "old" snes and genesis games was still fresh in their mind.
That's just weird autist. It usually still looked fine. Tvs were already getting pretty crisp. It was more something about the refresh rate causing the Genny to make extra colors and fake transparency. But even that was ok compared to paying for games
Nickelodeon somehow has the original cels for their shows.
I’m under the impression studios copy cels and give them to people who work on the show and they would sell it.
In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony digital animation, but because, I am enlightened by my cels.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClKRW8KLoya/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Why won't they do a new transfer? It's one of the most popular shows ever.
probably threw all the cels aways lol
I don't think you need the original cels. I think there's a master copy or something that gets created from the original cels. That's what they use to make the DBZ blurays. This is from a 16MM or 32MM copy.
For practical intents and purposes all analog animation was shot on film, which can be scanned into digital HD
The issue comes with whether the episodes were edited on film (meaning a complete copy exists on a reel, easy to archive) or if they were edited on video (standard def, meaning to get an HD copy of the episode you’d have to find all the raw footage and reconstruct the original editing)
Simpsons would be the latter
Honestly it's rare as hell for companies to hang onto cels in good enough condition for as long as The Simpsons has been a thing, they often give them away, sell them or trash them, or they just get ruined by one thing or another.
>cels
>CELS
FILM MASTERS!, god dammit, we been trough this many times!, what you are thinking, are the film materials.
See, this anons get it
Cels are very rare as they got washed and reused after a shoot. This is the whole DIPP affair in Roger Rabbit.
But you can't expect normal people to know this.
>they often give them away, sell them or trash them
>mfw that story where some guy asked reddit about these things he found tucked in a puzzle box he bought at goodwill and they turned out to be old Disney cels that got cleared out when the animator died and nobody looked in the puzzle box before handing it off
>mfw it could just as easily ended up in the trash at several points
They’ll never officially announce “we didn’t bother to keep track of or properly store any of the film reels after the episodes were edited onto video so a lot of the original HD footage is gone forever” but I’ve heard that’s what happened, Fox looked into it at one point and found nowhere near enough to bother pursuing it as a project.
I'd love to see what they have available. I think Looney Tunes has the same issue. They only released a fraction of it on bluray and it looks great.
Well they weren't DRAWN in SDTV crust-o-vision
that's not the original cel, maggie's face is less visible on the current transfer and burns' head is on a different angle
boy i really hope somebody got fired for that blunder
>different frame
Oh, what a shock.
I always see people post cel comparisons like this and I just assume the original cel got lighter due to it sitting out fir who knows how long. I mean, cmon, it's not like the colors would've stayed the same for years
Doesn't explain why some colors look roughly the same(background or the yellow skin) and others have different hues altogether(burns suit)
it does though, it's a really well known fact different pigments ages differently. Look at Van gogh reds. completely faded over time.
I guess it's just from the way they record them I mean the cels are physical and they're being recorded by a machine, right? I guess the camera or whatever changes it like how a camera can warp an image depending on lenses or whatever. Not like digital art where it pretty much always stays the same.
>Not like digital art where it pretty much always stays the same.
debatable, put several screens next to each other and you notice that unlike printing there's basically no standard in the rgb rendition technologie.
this
one time there was this drawing of a girl in black clothes and a little ribbon. I noticed the ribbon had the same color as skin and wondered if the artist merely didn't wanted to get another color out for this drawing. Everyone called me a moron for pointing this out. Then I took out my phone and looked at the image on there, and noticed that the ribbon, while similar to skin color, was clearly a different color.
It just looked the same on my laptop compared to most peoples phone screens.
To clear things up for anyone confused about how cel animation worked to the best of my understanding. Cels are the physical medium that the artists draw/paint on. These are then put together under a camera which takes a picture that is added to a film reel with each frame of animation needing a new cel. Once this and any other reels are edited into the final product, the finished reel is referred to as a master. Generally, this master is what is kept for the future and cels are gotten rid of in one way or another. From there the master is copied and that copy (or copies) is copied with these being distributed to broadcasters, theaters, home media etc. Generally, between these steps, resolution will be reduced, and colors can shift due to limitations in technology. Ideally animators would account for this when making the cels so it can be a bit tricky to determine what the "correct" colors are.
HD remasters of cartoons that were mastered on tape have blindingly bright colors and it's awful.
Examples?
HD Batman is way too bright.
Looks fine on my Oled, poorgay.
The colors are different and lighter, that's just a fact. Mastering on tape naturally darkens the colors. When the DCAU switched to all-digital halfway through Batman Beyond it made the entire show brighter and it remained that way through Justice League when enough fans complained about how everything was way too bright now (even though they were using the same colors, just digital instead of ink and paint) so they went with darker colors from season 2 onwards to compensate.
Maybe the cels are bright like in OP's picture.
They're using film, not cels
Maybe they're using the cel as a color reference. Colors fade so they might not know what it's suppose to look like.
It happens across the board with every show that was transferred to tape. When they remaster a cartoon that was only ever mastered on film, it looks the same but more detailed.
Is the remaster in your pic from the bluray that came out a few months ago? His skin looks kinda too pink.
It's called color spaces, not only are they different from media to media but also from transfer to transer and from screen to screen. In companies that care about that shit there are entire engineering teams in charge of managing color spaces. Taht comparison you posted doesn't mean anything as to what the "real" color is supposed to be, either could be the original intention, or neither
There are too many shows and old shorts that do no have restorations yet.
A show from the 80s and 90s would have to be incredibly popular to make it worth the cost. It's easier to do it with shows made before or after that time if they kept the film masters, but during those two decades where they mastered on tape to save money on mailing film canisters, they would have to pay for the cost of editing and post-production all over again.
myy eyes used o hurt a lot
it got so bd i couldnt keep hem open past 6 pm
one day i woke up and i was crying blood from my right eye
then the pain stop but when i saw everything i drew before that everything in he righ half of the papper was zoomed in
it was split perfectly in he middle, i drew a portrait and he right half was zoomed in
and i couldnt tell, o me boh halves loked exactly the same before