Oh look, another thread about some shit nobody but 6 samegayging autistics cares about. If anyone ITT reads comicsbeat OR watches kayfabe maybe consider offing yourself. You’re all homosexuals.
>Oh look, another thread
These CK threads sometimes lead to interesting tangents on comics. If you need your latest hazbin thread don't worry it's not far away.
He's a creep, a racist, a misogynist, a raging antisemite
he knows that himself. he's exploring his prejudices in his work instead of acting on his urges. it's called sublimation. zoomers wanted to cancel him forever but dont realize art doesnt need to be comfortable, it must be true.
>James Harvey
That's a name I haven't heard in years. I thought he was supposed to be the new hot thing but as always with these indie roaches, they're lazy as shit. Never even got around to finishing that one comic he said was coming out soon... back in 2014.
He didn't have projects lined up at either. He had one at Image he was doing with another person and nother that I think he was fishing it around but only released a prologue, it was about plastic surgery. Anyway if you look at his website you'll see he sell published two comics, Luigi Mode and UK in a bad way and they have low page counts.
>Cameron Stewart >In June 2020, Stewart was accused by multiple people of predatory sexual behavior. At the time the events happened, the accusers were much younger fans, friends or aspiring artists in their teens and early twenties, and Stewart was in his mid to late thirties and occasionally in a long term relationship.
>The accusers said that he used his status as a professional artist to get them to trust him, while all along this was a pretext for his real intent of making sexual advances, or grooming. Those making the accusations included Kate Leth and Natasha Negovanlis.[11][12][13][14][15] In response to this, DC dropped Stewart from an unannounced project he was working on.[15][16] W. Maxwell Prince and Martin Morazzo, creators of the Image Comics series Ice Cream Man, canceled Stewart's variant cover to the next issue of the series.[17]
Sean Gordon Murphy story is even more ridiculous: >Dude is married. >Worked with Magdalene Visaggio, the trans autistic creator. >Was supportive of Mags. >Mags somehow saw this as more. >Sean got shit for working with some CGer, realised what had happened and had the cover pulled before print. >Sean's statements around BLM stuff was taken the wrong way and was not strong enough for lefties either, people got mad at him even when he tried to cover himself and clarify while beinh more supportive. >Mags accused him of lovebombing. >Lovebombing is when someone bombards you with affection and attention with the intent to manipulate you. >Mags clarified he did nothing physical. >Dude deleted his Twitter.
God, I hate humans sometimes. Why is this kind of bullshit allowed to go on?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Because of Marxism.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I think that’s giving them too much credit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You will lose the war if you refuse to fight your enemy
1 month ago
Anonymous
Assuming that’s the case, how would you fight an ideology?
1 month ago
Anonymous
McCarthyism
1 month ago
Anonymous
>McCarthyism
Nah, no thanks. Don't want to trade left-wing moronation for right-wing moronation. The people who brought us McCarthyism also brought us the 1954 Comic Senate Hearings & Comics Code. How about no censoring or cancelling or other thought police tactics, period.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Good question. The real answer is no one knows. Attempts to return to the past or resorting to counter ideologies that lost in the past are all doomed to failure.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Cowardice
No one in power is brave enough to tell these people frick off
1 month ago
Anonymous
That’s actually a subtle white pill. All it would take is a few people in power to tell them to frick off: Not all, not most, just a few. That actually gives me some hope.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Because give a person an inch, they'll take a mile. There are a load of tin pot dictators out there acting like tyrants who use their voice to create constant drama. Seriously all these people ever talk about is politics or interpersonal feuds. And on the other side is a bunch of people who would rather fold and take the path of least resistance rather than fight this head on or directly.
Well it doesn’t seem to have impacted Sean’s career too much anyways so that’s good
The comic book industry is so lame that “a handful of tweets” is considered bad press
>The comic book industry is so lame that “a handful of tweets” is considered bad press
Comics are a niche of a niche. It is a smaller world than people think. Convention circuits, companies are only yay big. A bunch of these people are in groups that spread rumours and gossip. There are barely any sites that properly cover comic news and most of them now deal exclusively in Twitter gossip. They came at Scott Snyder once because he was on vacation and didn't respond to their Men in Comics pledge fast enough.
That story was so ridiculous it had no traction with anyone with functioning brain cells.
But I have no idea why anyone would want to work in an industry where you would have to network with these narcissistic sociopaths. If you want to write/draw comics throw up a patreon/kickstarter and save your sanity.
>If you want to write/draw comics throw up a patreon/kickstarter and save your sanity.
The industry is hugely reliant on networking unfortunately so you have to deal with such people. It is hard to get a decent enough following.
Well it doesn’t seem to have impacted Sean’s career too much anyways so that’s good
The comic book industry is so lame that “a handful of tweets” is considered bad press
That story was so ridiculous it had no traction with anyone with functioning brain cells.
But I have no idea why anyone would want to work in an industry where you would have to network with these narcissistic sociopaths. If you want to write/draw comics throw up a patreon/kickstarter and save your sanity.
By all accounts: no. Mags, like I mentioned, is autistic. And it seems like Sean was genuinely being nice. Then Sean was getting shit on because of a few clumsy mistakes meant he was getting labelled as "not politically aligned". It seems like he reached out to Mags and other people like, "please tell them I am not that," which Mags and others took as him "leveraging his position against them" and not "friend desperately wanting help to not dig himself in deeper".
1 month ago
Anonymous
Oh sorry I read your question wrong when I answered:
By all accounts: no. Mags, like I mentioned, is autistic. And it seems like Sean was genuinely being nice. Then Sean was getting shit on because of a few clumsy mistakes meant he was getting labelled as "not politically aligned". It seems like he reached out to Mags and other people like, "please tell them I am not that," which Mags and others took as him "leveraging his position against them" and not "friend desperately wanting help to not dig himself in deeper".
I thought you said did Sean want to bang Mags which is "no".
But did Mags think Sean wanted to bang? Probably yes, that is part of the lovebombing schtick and Mags' autism.
Why are there so many trans people in comics? I thought they were a fraction of the population.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nerd shit = more autistic people = more trans. Perpetually online people, psuedo intellectual types, college educated, left wing people are vastly overrepresented in creative industries at lower levels.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Leftovers from when Marvel invited them from Tumblr.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Because 99% of them aren't actually trannies, it's just IN to pretend you are. Before that, the IN thing was claiming to have a slew of specific mental illnesses. And being offended if someone asked if you were actually diagnosed by doctor.
>Just because you create something that's bad doesn't mean you can't also criticise stuff or review it.
It does though, how can you call yourself an arbiter of quality when you can't make it yourself? It means you can't recognize it.
It's different when you simply don't have a foot in the door so you can't prove yourself or even if you simply don't have an interest in creating, but when you create and what you create is crap, then how can your opinions and views be trusted on anything?
These nonstop threads are because youtube channels garner these autistic rabid fanbases that aggressively shill people like ck or rlm as if they're authority figures but much like how rlm doesnt't review Antonioni or Ozu because clearly that's far above their level since they only consume slop, it's hard to take these ck clowns seriously when what they produce is... crap. Aside from interviews with (better) creators, the channel was pretty worthless, I caught one where they were reviewing Coyote Gospel and it was all going way above their heads and they were trying to frame things as flaws despite them clearly not understanding those things and missing the point.
Cinemaphile is full of people that claim they'd be better than the current crop of writers in comics and while I'm sure 90% of them are actually far worse, they at least don't have the means and connections to prove their worth so in the case of rlm or ck, when you do have the means, resources, connections and platforms and yet what you produce is below even the level of stuff you eviscerate... well, you simply lack credibility. But youtubers are the new rockstars and their goblin fans will always rush to defend their idols failures, it's just a change if the times back in the day everyone could pick up a guitar and dream of making it big, now everyone has internet access so they dream of one day becoming influencer leeches.
Yet no one will take seriously the guy screaming 'IT SUCKS OKAY? THE CASSEROLE SUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!' if he's a nobody and they clearly enjoy the casserole themselves. He will be seen as a self important looney.
What is it with Cinemaphile and food analogies?
Anyway, to use your point, you can tell when food is bad even if you're not a chef but if you're a chef and you cook shitty food then you shouldn't criticize other chefs for cooking shitty food.
it's just a common retort against that argument
Why not? it's an exercise of bettering your craft by analyzing someone else's (better) works. Of course they might not get there or the progress might be minuscule but still.
There have been great critics who haven't done any (good) work in their subject of criticism but have produced great criticism and there have been great artists who have produced poor criticism. So it's silly to make a threshold for accepted artist output to be allowed to produce criticism/analysis. Many better comic creators have expressed enthusiasm for CK videos so they certainly got something out of them.
>Why not?
Because you're a hypocrite if you do. You gotta walk the walk if you want to talk the talk. But let's be honest here, you asking "why not?" says a lot about you when I already answered the question in my first post, but I know attention spans aren't what they used to be. Also, professional critics are leeches, there's nothing wrong with discussing things and analyzing both strengths and flaws but when your brain is unable to see the strengths then you are simply not qualified to critique, again, I already went over this when I said rlm reviews slop and not actual films, but to further reinforce my point, a professional critic is a parasite, "those that cannot create, critique" is true for them because they're all up their asses, drunk on their own farts believing they must offer their opinion to help educate the plebes and their arrogance does not permit the thought that they are simply not qualified to discuss a certain work to slip inside their minds. When you analyze something out of fun or love, you do it earnestly, when you do it for a paycheck you can end up underqualified.
Point is, better your craft before trying to critique another person's work because sometimes you'll critique s fellow hack's crap, but other times you will try to tear down something far above your capabilities as a creator.
> What is it with Cinemaphile and food analogies?
What is it with calling out food analogies?
Food is universally understood so it makes a good comparison. Some people play games, some people ride bicycles, but familiarity with concepts in those hobbies can’t be assumed. Everyone eats and even if they don’t cook, basic concepts are understood well enough to make a point.
>It does though, how can you call yourself an arbiter of quality when you can't make it yourself? It means you can't recognize it.
No, in the same way that people who create great things many times have utter shit taste. Reading and creating aren't the same kind of mental process and most people are better at just one of those things.
By taking your logic to it's logical end, it would mean that only comic book makers could enjoy comics properly, only musicians could enjoy music and so on.
>By taking your logic to it's logical end, it would mean that only comic book makers could enjoy comics properly, only musicians could enjoy music and so on
Not at all. I can't even say you're reaching because you just pulled that one straight out of your ass.
You say you can't properly judge the quality in comics comics if you don't produce quality comics yourself, then how can you judge properly what comic to read and enjoy just as a reader? Only quality comic book artists could do that.
>it's hard to take these ck clowns seriously when what they produce is... crap
Standard NPC line. Wonder how many who say this actually read their comics. Some of Rugg's better work is off the beaten track. Sure they're not Frank Miller or Jack Kirby in their prime—and their writing & concepts could be better, but their work is good enough to give them some insight into the process. They're definitely better than most of the garbage being produced by the big 2 nowadays.
>They're definitely better than most of the garbage being produced by the big 2 nowadays
Actual standard NPC line. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen this line posted on Cinemaphile I could buy both Marvel and DC.
a lot of the "jobber" angst comes from two types; people who legitimately enjoyed a lot of monthly superhero comics with artists and writers like, say, Rick Leonardi, Sal Buscema, Mark Bagley, Dan Hurgens, etc.
The other half is failed artists who'd kill to get work consistently as jobbers but washed out and are now 35+ and drawing worse than 19 year olds.
Is the era of the jobber over? Seems comic sales are so low that 'jobbers' would need to be on food stamps to get by. Explains #ComicsBrokeMe. Ed's right in that to make it you need a more hustler-entrepreneurial mindset and own your own shit. The only way to make it nowadays, and also based on decades of artists getting exploited even in the glory days. But it's another reason they resented Ed, they've been waiting for their moment to take out the long knives.
>Seems comic sales are so low that 'jobbers' would need to be on food stamps to get by.
It's why so many big two artists are just Spanish or Latin American, now-dollar goes further there.Mos of the comics broke me people are American writers and editors
1 month ago
Anonymous
Spanish artists are some of the best so that worked out in the end, the jobbers now are Twitter and dA amateur artists that can barely draw characters and the backgrounds are 3D SketchUp renders.
The only way you're making it in the big 2 is by being a writer that made something people liked and getting a big contract from them to write more books, like Tom King or Donny Cates. Jobber artists have to do porn commissions on the side so they can feed their families. The CG gays and Kayfabe honestly probably do make more than your standard big 2 jobber because they don't have to sell their creations to a publisher.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>because they don't have to sell their creations to a publisher.
And?
1 month ago
Anonymous
And? It's far more lucrative to be independent these days. The big 2 are dying worse than they were in the 90s.
>how can you call yourself an arbiter of quality when you can't make it yourself?
They never called themselves "arbiter of quality" they would shoot the shit with their own opinions. I sometimes think people get too upset with anyone criticising something. It is the Rotten Tomatoes effect where criticism is just a tool to be used for alternative reasons. >but when you create and what you create is crap, then how can your opinions and views be trusted on anything?
Objectively speaking they still have a modicum of success greater than most people and have sold books. But just because your books aren't great doesn't mean you can't discuss things, otherwise no one would be able to say anything. >autistic rabid fanbases
Sure the problem is the meta fan issue. Even the haters are as bad as the fanbases because even they seethe over opinions they disagree with which often means they are taking those opinions too seriously. >it was all going way above their heads
Sure. Comics YT has a low bar though considering most of it is "fans eating slop" or "wiki summary of comic crossover event". So they are far above a lot of stuff. >below even the level of stuff you eviscerate
Eviscerate is a strong word, when have they eviscerated things? An odd jobber comment here and there does not an evisceration make. For me I feel like you completely misunderstood the appeal of CK. It was two guys talking Wizard and discussing the history of comics and their journey into comics which evolved into interviews and an exploration of the medium from working cartoonists. I would wager it was background viewing for most people to find the odd interesting book or two, or to hear people shoot the shit with anecdotes. Instead you've made the mistake of inflating them beyond all recognition as this arbiter of quality whose opinions were much harsher than they were. Ironically you have become the meta fan issue I described, the hater who takes shit too seriously.
>Eviscerate is a strong word
Perhaps, but their writing capabilities were never above average capeshit level which is a level that repulses me. But like I said, when you review something and you miss the point, you're just embarassing yourself so don't be surprised when you're laughed at. >They never called themselves "arbiter of quality"
Anyone that does this for a profit has. Their content generally didn't interest me because it was dollar bin scavenging which I'm not fond of because I'm not fond of this whole collector aspect of the medium, and in general them "shooting the shit" and reviewing only exposed them for being low brow, which I suppose isn't a crime but I feel like you need to understand where you stand instead of getting drunk on delusions of grandeur.
The most I checked out was when they interviewed a creator I liked (which wasn't all that often), at the end if the day, they spent way more time talking to and about old big 2 hacks than trying to help promote an up and coming indie cartoonist. >it was background viewing for most people
And while I personally don't really care for these "background noise for the sake of background noise" activities, I'd say the bigger problem is how every couple of days someone would try to force threads about them on Cinemaphile which not only is it not the place for this type if aggresive marketing, but that's a lot if effort put into something that's just "background noise" to you.
I maintain that if you actually work in this medium, you should use your free time to try and better your craft instead of making and editing videos about how you paid 50 cents for a comic that usually sells for 80 bucks, especially considering the low quality of their comics. Perhaps their "haters" might've been "bad" too, but it's a natural response to fanboys trying to force this cult of personality crap when it comes to youtubers.
>But like I said, when you review something and you miss the point
All reviewers are ultimately just giving their subjective views and can miss the point sometime. It happens. It doesn't instantly invalidate everything they say. People are human. >Anyone that does this for a profit has
Their videos were never monetised with ads. The only ads were their own books themselves or Patron (which gave access to their books/arts). >it was dollar bin scavenging
This feels like another generalisation on your part. There was a variety of content. >for being low brow
Comparable to what? Like I said in my post, compared to most comics YT they are not as bad, there is a lot of lower brow stuff out there. I do not really know of any channels that really analyse comics in a high brow way, I would love to find some. >promote an up and coming indie cartoonist.
They did talk about some more modern people but that was never the focus of the channel. > I'd say the bigger problem is how every couple of days someone would try to force threads
I never saw this happen so perhaps I'll just have to take your word on it. >I maintain that if you actually work in this medium, you should use your free time to try and better your craft
You can do both.
Anon, I just feel like you have a bone to pick? Correct me if I am wrong in that statement. Part of what you hate them for is you misunderstanding the point or wanting them to be something they are not. They were a rather specific type of channel but in that niche they still did appeal to a decent chunk of people. When you say criticisms like "they didn't promote up and comers" that is like criticising a burger joint for not serving stew, it is two different things entirely. The truth is comic books are massively devoid of good influencers or journalistic media and they were something better than most but granted still not amazing or great. I just feel like your comments are too absolute and specific and seem to not understand this.
>All reviewers are ultimately just giving their subjective views
No, most are framing their opinions as objective, it's why they'll often say "this doesn't work" but often it does, the reviewers simply don't see it or don't understand why it works because of their own shortcomings. >compared to most comics YT they are not as bad
Perhaps, but the idea that there are worse youtubers out there does not make them any better >hate
That's a strong word, I simply do not care about them as cartoonists and I didn't fond their youtube content interesting either, but I like seeing interviews with creators I like which they sometimes did. Their fans are insufferable though. >that is like criticising a burger joint for not serving stew
Again with the food analogies... look, if you want to promote yourself as an indie guy and if you talk down the big 2, then you should talk about current (or old) indie stuff, especially now when the industry is in such a rough spot. Instead they mostly cover old big two crap and they'll even try to throw shade at them even though they themselves worked at Marvel. They covered some indie stuff, too, I know, but their boner was still for those C tier indies they labeled "outlaw comics" in a pathetic teenage-y attempt to make them seem cooler.
>in general them "shooting the shit" and reviewing only exposed them for being low brow
What did you expect? Art Spiegelman-level semiotic analysis of comics? >trying to help promote an up and coming indie cartoonist
Why is this their responsibility? When something vibed with their sensibilities (like Bootleg Spider-Man) they covered it, but it wasn't their duty to be champions of indie comic creators. >you should use your free time to try and better your craft
They did. Ed's art improved and Rugg's True Crime displays a more sophisticated approach to the medium than his early Afrodesiac. CK was designed to be a hustle to reinforce their practice.
You're betraying your ignorance here.
>They did
Doesn't show
At the end of the day, what I said still stands so I'll repeat myself, if you are a creator, you should better yourself instead of trying to talk down other works when you yourself produce nothing but uninspired low brow unpolished material. If you don't create, it's different, but if you do work in the medium then you need to walk the walk if you want to talk the talk, it's just common sense.
>most are framing their opinions as objective
This feels again, like you deciding something. CK isn't saying they are objective here. Seriously anon, I have no idea where you get this from. This does feel rather like a projection on your part? >the idea that there are worse youtubers out there does not make them any better
It doesn't make them better but it does place them in the contextual environment of what comics media is. It is like a fricking barren wasteland out there and people are thirsty. >seeing interviews with creators I like which they sometimes did.
And the fact we see so little of this really bums me out. >Their fans are insufferable though.
Do you not get tired of just making generalisations over and over again? >Again with the food analogies
Don't dismiss something because it is a food analogy. It is perfectly reasonable to say that they were offering a specific product and most of your criticisms are of the fact they weren't offering a product which you wanted. This to me feels like you are criticising them for what they aren't rather than for what they are constantly. >Instead they mostly cover old big two crap
And this has been explained to you that the channel started as a Wizard history lesson and their journey in comics as kids to adults so of course it covered that stuff. >They covered some indie stuff, too, I know,
They covered some great creators, manga, knowledge that a bunch of comic readers don't bother with nowadays. (Seriously comics fans now are so bereft of knowledge.)
I just feel like you're not really connecting with any of my points. I am a casual viewer of their show, wouldn't describe myself as a fan. I want better comics media and if anyone has anything to suggest then send some. Most of your points feel like barbed projections. They aren't arbiters of quality or declaring their views as objective. You didn't like their content and that is fair enough but your points just don't really go anywhere.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And the fact we see so little of this really bums me out.
There are plenty of channels that had interviews/podcast with creators and they were even better but Cinemaphile prefers eceleb style content creators. You get what you fricking deserve.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>There are plenty of channels that had interviews/podcast with creators
Such as? >but Cinemaphile prefers >You get what you fricking deserve.
Cinemaphile isn't all one person. And even you must recognise it is fricking hard to find out about such channels and content these days.
1 month ago
Anonymous
https://www.youtube.com/@ComixExperience/videos
?si=y9eitsYrhWrhfc_r
I think most of the videos are delisted or something, they show up on related but not when you click the channel
https://www.youtube.com/@millartime5717/videos
All better, all with actual creators talking about influences, process and whatnot. Yes, even the Millar one despite how hard he tries to ruin them
1 month ago
Anonymous
Thank you anon for coming through with some suggestions. I appreciate it. Will check them out.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>This does feel rather like a projection on your part?
And this does feel like you getting awfully defensive. >This to me feels like you are criticising them for what they aren't rather than for what they are constantly.
I guess the fans sold it as something it's not. I'm not even get into hoe self entered thid >Wizard history lesson and their journey in comics as kids to adults
Sounds, but if you weren't about that, some of the fans would get offended at you "dissing" the "best comic book related youtube channel".
>bereft of knowledge.
Exactly how I would describe them, especially when it comes to manga >I just feel like you're not really connecting with any of my points
I could say the same, you're defending their youtube channel a bit too hard when my problem comes from the fact that they're not very good comic book creators.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And this does feel like you getting awfully defensive.
I'm discussing things in good faith anon. I want to know where people are declaring themselves as objective, because they aren't.I really think the issue here is more the meta problem of how people see reviewers. I feel like people hold reviewers to weird standards now in the culture war battle over them or petty feuds about stuff. Rather than criticism also being a discussion on how we see things. I miss stuff like At the Movies where the reviews were often those kind of discussions. I feel like people have what a review should be as something rather small and specific rather than many different things. >I guess the fans sold it as something it's not.
Maybe, I think most people just dipped in and out of what they liked (you yourself liked the interviews). >some of the fans would get offended at you "dissing" the "best comic book related youtube channel".
Honestly I feel like you spend too much time bothering about fans. Fans of anything can be annoying if you listen to them too much. >Exactly how I would describe them, especially when it comes to manga
Which is why sometimes the stuff that they introduced was a good thing that expanded people's knowledge. >you're defending their youtube channel a bit too hard
I am really not defending them in the way you think I am. I am discussing and criticising some points about them as part of the discussion about comics media as a whole. I even said I was a casual viewer and not a fan. So don't take what I am saying as a stalwart defender. Like I said previously, it is a barren wasteland out there.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Bereft is lacking in.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I know anon. I stated in the post before that comics fans are bereft in knowledge. You stated that they (CK) are bereft in knowledge. And I retorted that they did actually cover a lot of stuff that did expand people's knowledge somewhat.
>No, most are framing their opinions as objective, it's why they'll often say "this doesn't work" but often it does
Honestly anon, are you autistic? I don't mean to be rude but you keep randomly deciding concrete things in a bizare way. I don't think anyone in this thread believes that kayfabe believed themselves to be objective scrutinizers of art. People routinely disagreed with their takes, even fans did.
>in general them "shooting the shit" and reviewing only exposed them for being low brow
What did you expect? Art Spiegelman-level semiotic analysis of comics? >trying to help promote an up and coming indie cartoonist
Why is this their responsibility? When something vibed with their sensibilities (like Bootleg Spider-Man) they covered it, but it wasn't their duty to be champions of indie comic creators. >you should use your free time to try and better your craft
They did. Ed's art improved and Rugg's True Crime displays a more sophisticated approach to the medium than his early Afrodesiac. CK was designed to be a hustle to reinforce their practice.
You're betraying your ignorance here.
No, what it seems is that you're ultimately missing your own point because you can't just own up to how your statements just don't hold up when boiled down to their essence.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Not that guy, you're just clearly missing the point.
this thread and other seething I've come across online is about their criticism of 'jobbers' etc., but I'm digging into their archives now and the best part of the show is the historical aspect. I've seen few channels that take a deep dive into the industry like these guys. More than just creators, they're huge fans, and their enthusiasm for the medium is contagious.
Most people here actually liked their channel, it's Ed specifically everyone had a problem with. You can critique work without coming off like a teenaged edgelord and shoving a bunch of nonsensical anecdotes about your childhood into every episode. I'm actually sad the channel is dead since it enlightened me on a bunch of comics, books, genres etc. that I would have otherwise never bothered with. They definitely had the best thing going and Ed's moronic ass had to ruin it for everyone.
>Ed specifically everyone had a problem with
Even that is overblown. He was a bit annoying at times, but it's not like he was like that every single minute of every video they posted. And even if he was, all this joy at all that's going down is really fricking low. We're losing one of the best archives of comic book interviews out there and a bunch of c**ts here are happy 'cause they didn't like he wore sunglasses inside or talked shit about Dan Jurgens.
I'm not happy at all that the channel is gone. I've watched every single video from the beginning every day and would sit in on their recording sessions. But I knew something like this was going to happen sooner or later because Ed doesn't have a very likable personality and it honestly got worse as the channel got more and more popular.
ah shit its real. Kayfabe bros I don't feel so good
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yeah frick Ed for ruining a good thing.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It's over, isn't it?
1 month ago
Anonymous
so now what? the only good comic book youtube channel is Comics by Perch, he's the one holding the line
1 month ago
Anonymous
There are no good channels that aren’t pure cringe
1 month ago
Anonymous
nah Perch is a good channel
1 month ago
Anonymous
so now what? the only good comic book youtube channel is Comics by Perch, he's the one holding the line
Strange Brain Parts, Earl Grey, For the Love of Comics
1 month ago
Anonymous
A Tom King fan, a literal neckbeard and an indian?
...
1 month ago
Anonymous
>A Tom King fan
He's just Canadian.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>good comic book youtube channel is Comics by Perch
lmao stop
1 month ago
Anonymous
why you think Perch is not good, what's the alternative the comics explained guy?
1 month ago
Anonymous
His market analysis videos where he crunches sales numbers of specific book titles are pretty insightful.
And his interviews with comic pros are pretty fun to listen to. Specially the ones with Sean Gordon Murphy, they have a good chemistry.
1 month ago
Anonymous
exactly, Perch's middle of the road, above it all attitude is annoying PLUS he's boring as hell
1 month ago
Anonymous
There are no good channels that aren’t pure cringe
Living the Line is good, but Carson Grubaugh is kind of boring to listen to. There's also Noah Van Sciver. But if you want any kind of mainstream big 2 reviews like kayfabe was doing there's nothing worth watching. Sad.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Carson and Jim should team up and do the dullest channel imaginable . I’d watch it
1 month ago
Anonymous
I still listen to Carson's channel when it's something I'm interested in. He still has an unbiased opinion on things I like. It's too bad Sean Michael Robinson isn't on there more to balance him out.
1 month ago
Anonymous
There are no good channels that aren’t pure cringe
I don't know about Perch, but I like interviews. >The Comics Cube >Noah Van Sciver >Comic Book Historians >Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center
1 month ago
Anonymous
Perch is a pseudo intellectual cg ass kisser frick that dumb ass Black person
1 month ago
Anonymous
is this most shocking break-up since Morrison and Millar?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Just a professional break up
1 month ago
Anonymous
No way Jim can show his face anywhere near Piskor now if he wants to keep his career
1 month ago
Anonymous
>No way Jim can show his face anywhere near Piskor
Jim's message is carefully worded "professional association" and "working relationship." It definitely leaves open that they can still be personal friends.
Nah they both unfollowed each other on IG. Jim probably wants nothing to do with him anymore because he doesn't want his livelihood affected since he mostly works with YA publishers.
>they both unfollowed each other on IG.
This doesn't mean anything, can just be for public relations.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nah they both unfollowed each other on IG. Jim probably wants nothing to do with him anymore because he doesn't want his livelihood affected since he mostly works with YA publishers.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Comic book industry is weird >I can’t be seen with this guy because he’s a creep and I’ll get bad press
There is literally ZERO press on comics . I don’t blame jim , Ed seems like a pain in the ass
1 month ago
Anonymous
>There is literally ZERO press on comics
You'd think, but the Ed thing got big enough to have a segment on local Pittsburgh news:
?si=Pssg6Q4GLEjGGj2y
1 month ago
Anonymous
Ed should just do the show with his dad now
1 month ago
Anonymous
He can also bring in David Choe and Dave Sim
1 month ago
Anonymous
I hated Choe the first time but he kind of grew on me
I think Ed could still get Johnny Ryan on for that shoot interview
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I hated Choe the first time but he kind of grew on me
Same, he's definitely got mental issues but there's a childlike wonder and endearingness to his openness that's refreshing in this cynical world.
1 month ago
Anonymous
His story about trying to catfish comic book creators was funny
1 month ago
Anonymous
I'm certain Dave Sim only sends videos to the guy running his channel not a guy that streams. But I also was thinking that Piskor starts his own alternative Comicsgate that is more of a perv Groomergate with Sim, Crumb etc
1 month ago
Anonymous
Jim and Ed mentioned years ago they wanted to interview Dave but he would have to go to the coffeshop near his house and use their wi fi to do a skype call.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Ed's move now would be to go full heel and travel around doing the Sim interview, the Crumb interview etc. maybe even move to France near Crumb or frick off to Japan forever.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The Roman Polanski of comics.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Polanski fricked a teen in the ass, Piskor couldn't even get a date.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Sim would set Ed straight about dealing with the female void
1 month ago
Anonymous
This is Ed's way forward. If he truly thinks he's an outlaw, lean in to it and give Sim a platform to go full Sim before he dies.
1 month ago
Anonymous
He can also bring in David Choe and Dave Sim
Maybe he could have rotating guest hosts. That could be cool, it would mean different perspectives every time.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>local Pittsburgh news:
do people in Pittsburgh can even afford to have TVs?
1 month ago
Anonymous
The comic book industry is one of the most pozzed industries there is, so I can see why Jim would feel that way. It's not that he'll get bad press, it's that publishers won't want to work with him just by association. Which I agree is stupid.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Being such a small industry it actually means that networking and building a loyal fanbase is actually much more important than if it was a bigger profile industry, so this kinda thing actually has a much bigger impact.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The guys who worked with Bastien Vives still follow him on insta and they remain friends too. Vives often comments on his friends' posts (mostly when they post art) and you have dozens of no name girls calling him out on his stuff, though.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Its a french thing
1 month ago
Anonymous
Bastien just draws weird shit, and its french.
there's a world of difference.
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
He must be mad as hell, they had a good cozy gimmick and it ended in the most embarrassed way possible.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Oh no! How will he ever thumb through old comics on camera again!?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Good for Jim. I never got super into CK just because Ed's persona is so grating but I've been a fan of Jim's for many years.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Wonder if they'll remain friends or if that's it completely.
1 month ago
Anonymous
If they do it'll never be public. I doubt it, though. Not so much because of what Ed did, but because that would put a strain on their relationship regardless of how bothered Jim was on a personal level. I feel bad for him.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Its all over. do you really think Jim Ruggs wife will allow him to hang out with a pedo
1 month ago
Anonymous
31 Then Ed told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: “ ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Angoulême.”
33 Jim replied, “Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.”
34 “Truly I tell you,” Ed answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”
35 But Jim declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
69 Now Jim was sitting out in the courtyard, and a tattooed girl came to him. “You also were with Ed of Homestead,” she said.
70 But he denied it before them all. “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” he said.
71 Then he went out to the gateway, where another blue haired girl saw him and said to the people there, “This fellow was with Ed of Homestead.”
72 He denied it again, with an oath: “I don’t know the man!”
73 After a little while, those standing there went up to Jim and said, “Surely you are one of them; your accent gives you away.”
74 Then he began to call down curses, and he swore to them, “I don’t know the man!” Immediately a rooster crowed.
75 Then Jim remembered the word Ed had spoken: “Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.” And he went outside and wept bitterly.
Ed you ain't never coming back to gen pop, you developed this too cool for school persona with a blaccent and afro clothes from 1992, then you do that corny lame shit? Shiiiiiieeeeeet, you can hide in the solitary confinement playing Streets of Rage 2 for all we care.
Ed calling other artists jobbers was pretty funny tbh. But the aspect of it that made CK bad was that they'd only talk about books/bring on guests that would boost the profile of CK. Always veterans with decades of experience and never anything current. On one of the lives Ed was expressing his jealousy over the channel matttt (which he refused to mention by name) get millions of views for its "dumbed down" and "basic" videos. It's clear that indie comics and youtube are a zero sum competition for them.
>But the aspect of it that made CK bad was that they'd only talk about books/bring on guests that would boost the profile of CK. Always veterans with decades of experience and never anything current.
That's just their taste because they're oldheads who mostly enjoy pre-Y2K comics. And I agree, most of the comics of the last 20 years suck ass.
>Always veterans with decades of experience and never anything current
That's not entirely true but you also have other channels for that. It isn't like a single channel has to cover the whole spectrum of the comic book world.
You're missing the point. They cover stuff that they think will lend cachet to their own channel, things bigger and more established than they are. But never anything *below* them. Why do they say that "comics are better than ever" and "there's more choice than ever before", yet all they have to talk about are X-Men comics from 1990? Am I supposed to go drop off GI Joe boomer comics from 1982 into my local lending library to promote comics readership? The only time they mention something new is if it's from one their personal friends or from Barry Windsor Smith or Daniel Clowes (the established veteran artists) etc.
>Why do they say that "comics are better than ever" and "there's more choice than ever before"
Because of all the fricking manga that's being translated into English for the first time
>They cover stuff that they think will lend cachet to their own channel, things bigger and more established than they are
First off, I couldn't care less about any "obscure" reasons for them to do what they do. As a viewer, what I get is hour (sometimes hours) long conversations with artists that are usually either ignore or just too awkward/introverted to go into such lengthy conversations with an interviewer. I'm not their friend, or colleague. I'm a comic books fan watching a youtube channel, and they delivered good content.
Secondly, while they do focus on "big" names most of the time, they've also featured lesser known, contemporary comic book artists as well. That seems to be more in Jim's wheelhouse and the couple of interviews I can think of off the top of my head were him solo, but they're still do exist.
And again, it's just one youtube channel. You can't and shouldn't expect a single channel to provide everything you want/need. Browse around, find another channel that complements it with different content and then you can cover all your bases. Otherwise what you end up is channels that spread themselves too thin and just churn out half assed content.
>You're missing the point. They cover stuff that they think will lend cachet to their own channel, things bigger and more established than they are. But never anything *below* them
So what? How else would you grow a youtube channel? Even if you think this is somehow bad, so what?
They've talked about more recent stuff, but they both admit over and over that they stopped reading comics in the late 90s for a long time. Also, their channel started off just reviewing Wizard magazine and when Covid happened it turned into what it became for the next few years, which was just looking at old comics they liked.
I completely agree that they're boring and the only people whoever sing their praises are Jim Shooter cultilsts who like the most meat and potatoes comics and get hard for continuity.
hahaha based James.
Too bad CK never had james on for an interview. Though I don't think they ever mentioned him, they probably didnt want to piss off that homosexual Gary Groth since he banned him from fantraphics
>I'm not giving you clicks
Dave seethes while reading Ezekiel under candlelight as he learns (by carrier pigeon) that you didn't didn't give him his 140th view on the Youtubes.
>139 views? There is a message here from The Lord. >First book of the bible, third chapter, ninth verse? >Genesis 3:9 >But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?” >A question we are all pondering concerning Ed Piskor. I think that'll do it for the weekly update.
Wish James had Sim’s work ethic of putting out a lot of work.
James goes missing for like 4 years and has like two new comics (and UK in a bad way isnt very long)
At least he doesn’t pretend to hate cerebus because Dave is an anti feminist / schizo
Sucks that it’s ending, especially in this fashion. It probably was the best comic channel on YouTube and I wish I had appreciated it more before all this.
Does one of them keep going with the channel? Is it getting deleted? Will it just remain but with no new updates? Has Ed himself said anything about this? So many questions.
I would bet money Ed keeps going with the channel at some point in the future by himself. Probably not daily videos like they've been doing, but every once in a while Ed would film a solo vid of some random comic he had out in between their recording sessions.
No one is celebrating. It was literally my favorite channel on youtube and now it's gone. I still blame Ed for being a fricking smoothbrained moron. What kind of moron do you have to be to actually DM females when you're semi popular?
Oh, absolutely. I'm pissed off at Ed more than anything, it's 100% his doing but these threads the past few days have been driven by people celebrating Ed being "taken down".
They hate him because he was introducing a large audience to good old stuff by instead of fluffing up the milkshake crowd and pretending “this is the real Golden Age!”
>The indie (as in, actual indie) comic community really fricking hates Ed Piskor for whatever reason
Cause he rightfully calls their comics shit, that and he didn't want to support BLM (Burn Loot Murder). Wonder if Jim will make his own channel?
A lot of "white" comic book nerds are mad at ed for stealing "black music" and making a hugely popular book about it (at least in terms of indie books)
Instead of writing books about depression or some shit.
He shits on everyone and calls them jobbers while his own art is /beg tier and his writing is middle school tier. On top of this, he calls himself an indie guy making outlaw comics, but he literally did work for Disney. Even artists he didn't call jobbers are friends with people Ed called jobbers. He has no allies. Conicsgate hates him. The mainstream hates him. Indie nerds hate him. And normies who hear about him now see him as that sex pest comic wigger.
Would the response have been the same if Ed engaged with adult women and didn't try his grooming gimmicks and just ask them out? He thought he was it, stay humble.
>Would the response have been the same if Ed engaged with adult women
If Ed used his "fame" to bang chicks...yes the reaction would have been largely the same.
The girl being 3 months shy of 18 is just an added bonus...a lot of people wanted to ruin Ed's career
Well, if Ed didn't do any of those things, there wouldn't be anything to "respond" to.
He wasn't called out for chatting up a girl, he was called out for the "suck my dick and I'll give you my agent's number" kinda thing.
They've gone down from around 91.2k subs to 90.1. I think what would surprise most people is how scandals don't often lead to things completely tanking. Perpetually online people in bubbles respond to controversy more but the average fan might be oblivious. These losses won't stay consistent. I think in a month he'll respond to things, apologise and then make some videos (probably avoiding being fully on camera). It won't be as good or as popular but that's what will happen. Wonder how many will stop Patron too.
i wont unsubscribe. if he's done something illegal, he should go to jail. otherwise i dont care. if we knew all our favorite creators in person, we probably wouldnt follow anybody. i dont want ed to date my sister, but i want to watch his channel.
He's a typical virtue signaller with a bone to pick worming his way into a situation. He'll also probably turn out to be some kind of sex offender who was overcompensating.
Jim and Ed mentioned years ago they wanted to interview Dave but he would have to go to the coffeshop near his house and use their wi fi to do a skype call.
People are missing Jim was the Sims fanboy who always bought him up not Ed.
>People are missing Jim was the Sims fanboy who always bought him up not Ed.
Makes sense. The better parts of Cerebus are something that feels more in Jim's ballpark.
This guy is a giant piece of shit, he's taken shots at Jim for YEARS. Apart from Ed. Snide put downs, shit talking, little comments. Fat fricking whale. OPEN UP YOUR DMS "NICE GUY" You know it's the same shit as Ed only under the guys of nice guy irony. The cuckiest followers, can't even call them fans bc they just heard tell of him through his Will Menaker reply-guying. Really cute he took the lead on this whole witch hunt, you fat fricking dork.
>under the guys of nice guy irony.
Under the *guise, obv
I've told this story before but years back he was dissing Ed for cultural appropriation to his pale basedfacing white SJW fans, and this dorky looking white dude calls ed "A white dweeb" I screenshot his own dorky looking profile picture back at him and Ramon goes, "Yeah but this guy wouldn't deny being a a white dweeb" shitting on him, throwing him under the bus to his confusion. The whole race dynamic between him and his Chapo fan followers is fricking bleak.
Yeah, just tired of his having it both ways. Spending 6 years sticking the knife in Jim's back to pull it out and say, actually he's cool, I like Jim, to sticking it back in again over and over.
Failed comic artist who has been leading the charge against Ed and Jim since the channel began, trying his hardest to get them cancelled for cultural appropriation. His whole thing is what if X character, but cholo. So cholo Wonder Woman, cholo Batman, etc. Ed's being a wigger just broke his brain, he's supposed to be the "ethnic guy," he's supposed to have Ed and Jim's following, how could they be allowed to get away with this?? And so when this story broke last week, he consumed a steady supply of energy drinks and took point, doing all he could to lead the lynch mob. It's been his finest hour.
Thing is too, when the story broke he had a jolly good time with it. He was like "HAHAH awe shit kayfabers that's ya boyee? Ya'll grew up with him tho? HAHAHA" and then pivoted to, "This is a heinous act of predatory groomation and one that as a society we must treat with the utmost contempt and speak of only in reverent tones." But you can't have it both ways. If it's such a serious, disgusting, wretched thing why would you celebrate it and meme on it and have fun with it? He gave the game away. Him and so many other aggrieved artists dont care about the "victim," they just want to see Ed suffer. It's fun. Which, fine. But you can't remain on the moral high ground. Or any ground for too long you fat frick.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It would be hard to really believe that an adult female would suffer any psychological issues because a random guy from the internet tried to bang her.
1 month ago
Anonymous
And she says the same, actually. But not the aggreived artists whose work they never reviewed or who found Ed smug or whatever. It's thier show now, she's just in the way.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Ed should have her be his new co host . The ultimate heel turn (or whatever the wrestling term would be)
1 month ago
Anonymous
Damn, you must really be gotten to if you wrote all that wall of text.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You'll never be Frank Quitely, Ramon.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Npc reply, Bendis.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I read Bendis' DD run last month and it was pretty alright, should I keep going with Brubaker?
1 month ago
Anonymous
You tell me, Brian.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Heard you talking shit about my boy like I wouldn't find out
1 month ago
Anonymous
Go back to tracing, buddy boy.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Like Ed himself says, if tracing was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Him and sin-kev-itch tbh
1 month ago
Anonymous
I heard Billy the Sink and Frank Miller would get wasted and throw knives at each other instead of working
>I really just cannot have shit that I like in this Earth.
Yeah it seems like that. Just hope he keeps the channel up. There's a bunch of videos I haven't watched and now is a good time to catch up.
Yeah Ed fricked up, but reading all the "I'm ashamed to have read his comics," "I'm unsubscribing," "He should be banished from comics forever," on plebbit & shitter is lame. Motherfrickers, every artist you've loved from The Beatles to your fave YA novelist has a closet full of skeletons. And most of these virtue-signaling morons have done something that will get them cancelled in a heartbeat.
>Yeah Ed fricked up, but reading all the "I'm ashamed to have read his comics," "I'm unsubscribing," "He should be banished from comics forever," on plebbit & shitter is lame.
All those people you describe deserve to end up in the cuckshed
They all sound like homosexuals and no one should ever take anything they say seriously. I honestly think creators should just delete all social media and have nothing to do with fans at this point. Ed screwed up and I think he is an butthole but no one deserves to have their life collapse over this.
This is how a scandal dies, not with an explosion but with a shrug. All the momentum is gone. A few skeevy stories but nothing illegal. Mental takes everywhere. Channel basically dead. This was all bluster and honestly felt like a fricking stitch up. I think so many of the people ITT and online willed for this to be bigger.
>Jim researched how to become a 17 year old art hoe to bait Ed to create a situation from which to escape >spent millions on experimental research >Tom just told him to rip off someone's instagram photos, wait until his art show and post about it then refuse to do any interviews
Not sure but they probably made a lot of money on their patrion compared to how much effort their videos took. I guarantee Jim's booksales without CK wouldn't have been anywhere near as good
They literally did a deal recently with IDW to promote and market the new Batman Year One Artisan Edition. They had other deals and shit like that. The "Kayfabe effect" of old books selling out when they viewed them was real.
>I don't think the channel itself was very profitable.
They didn't get major views, but they made it up in quantity, putting out videos every day (some days more than one). What's sad is that I noticed their view counts increased a good bit in just the last few months (and they were close to 100k subs).
Maybe someone who knows more about YT profits could estimate how much they made.
Both of them seem kind of inept when it came to how Youtube worked. I don't even think the channel was properly monetized for ad revenue. They just decided to stick their ad in the video itself to shill their own stuff. If they sought out someone with some knowledge on how to increase reach they should have had way more subscribers than they did.
>They just decided to stick their ad in the video
Yeah the shilling was ham-handed af and could have been handled a lot better (like a tight short clip). It probably lost them viewers.
Other than that I found the format cozy in a public-access sort of way. >they should have had way more subscribers than they did
I dunno, maybe. I find comics channels in general don't have many views, and ones that follow their format (like Living the Line) make far fewer than even CK.
The only comics channels I see doing well are early adopters like Comic Tropes and ones with a super-slick normie format like matttt (which doesn't even look like a comics channel at first).
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Yeah the shilling was ham-handed af and could have been handled a lot better (like a tight short clip)
I preferred it immensely compared to everyone and their dog shilling Better Help, Nord VPN or Square Space.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Better Help, Nord VPN or Square Space
True, that's the fricking worst.
On CK, their shilling did work, I bought several of their books. And I'm all for artists getting that bag. It could've just been better integrated in their videos, it broke the flow.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You forgot Raycon Earbuds, Raid Shadowlegends and Ridge Wallets
Ed can start putting videos on his own again, he already curated the comments section, as in, deleted all comments that weren't praising him and shadow banned everyone that corrected his goofy "facts".
Not just any white woman, a teeny art girl, I'm still laughing that a teen girl ended his street cred.
I know someone in a previous thread said that Fantagraphics told someone they "had no current plans of working with Ed Piskor" but have they said anything else?
Gary Groth went nuclear over previous allegations with another artist.
I know someone in a previous thread said that Fantagraphics told someone they "had no current plans of working with Ed Piskor" but have they said anything else?
Gary Groth went nuclear over previous allegations with another artist.
This is especially funny because Ed had been sucking up to Fantagraphics so much in their recent videos
I forget which artist it was but he was accused of "grooming" by someone (she was 24 and he was 30 when they met) and claimed comic was about real life stuff. And Fantagraphics pulled the comic in question and apologised.
Since they have no ongoing projects with him (and RR and HHFT are probably their biggest sellers) they're probably being discreet as possible.
Also I find there's less going hard in the paint over histrionic online cancel culture shit anymore. There's the creeping feeling that in about 50 years all this is going to look as moronic as the 50s Red Scare, 1954 comic book hearings, and Salem witch hunts.
[...]
Seems I chose the wrong time to take a break
The story so far: >Ed Piskor was messaging a 17 year old girl a bunch, acknowledged her age, also went and liked a load of her old photos (including where she is 13). >Woman in question (now 21) posted about feeling groomed on her account. >Ed decided to private the Cartoonist Kayfabe channel as well as Instagram and Twitter. >Aggressive campaign of defence on Twitter happened with people assuming he was using an alt-account. >Channel went public again as well as his Instagram (which then posted stuff). >Other woman have come forward with allegations. >One said Ed wanted a blowjob or casual arrangement in exchange for his agent's number. >A third woman said Ed offered to help her in the industry if he could draw her naked. >Jim Rugg is no longer following Ed on Instagram. >Original accuser is now posting more DMs claiming that Ed pursued her. >Pittsburgh Cultural Trust has now postponed an art exhibition for Ed's art. >Fantagraphics said they currently have no upcoming projects with Ed. >Some people on social media have posted vague comments suggesting more allegations to follow. >Local news doxxes Ed and his father rants at a reporter that he did nothing wrong. >Jim Rugg has distanced himself from Ed.
This is probably a silly question, but is there actually a legal definition of grooming? People seem to use it even when the person is at or above the AOC in their state, which means it can’t just be related to legal age. That and it seems to have inconsistent definitions especially when things like jobs and ranks are involved. I guess I want to know what is and isn’t grooming, going by a strict definition.
>This is probably a silly question, but is there actually a legal definition of grooming?
In my country (not US) grooming is literally: >communication with a child (underage person) for the purposes of sex, sexual abuse, etc.
A more general definition is: >taking advantage of someone utilizing a power differential,
which can include: >abuse of position of trust,
which includes teachers, doctors etc.
People online tend to use the general defintion by way of someone utilizing their power over someone to manipulate someone into doing something they want. Typically one party is "vulnerable" such as a child or younger person, people with a disability or mental health disorder being manipulated by someone older, more experienced with more money, influence, power.
In this case the general argument is: >Molly Dwyer is a 17 year old who doesn't really know much. >She liked a post. >Ed began messaging her. >He liked photos, talked about nerdy stuff with her and said stuff like naughty girl. >Then he appeared to want to meet up with her, with people assuming that would be for the purposes of him wanting more.
As far as I am aware the AOC there is 16. BUT there is corruption of a minor which includes: >The offender commits an act that corrupts or tends to corrupt the morals of any minor less than 18 years of age
But I have no idea how this applies and no nothing about it. Ultimately this is more about Ed doing something morally wrong. Similarly he leveraged his industry position with the two other alleged victims, which isn't illegal either.
>In this case the general argument is:
I should mention: >Molly was interested in art and is an artist >Ed positioned himself as someone in the industry with knowledge about art who could help her
I appreciate you taking the time to go into detail, but this still all seems kind of vague and based on a subjective definition of power. Again, this is assuming nothing criminal happened.
>Again, this is assuming nothing criminal happened.
The only potential criminality is corruption of a minor but I don't believe it applies in this case. As there is nothing he attempted to do to corrupt her. >but this still all seems kind of vague and based on a subjective definition of power
A lot of things are subjective but require a kind of test or examination. Molly is an artist and into art and Ed is an established artist in an industry. So already there is a power differential there with an implication that he could assist her journey. Ed is older, Molly is younger and we know how teenagers can be. Ed started talking to her when he was 37 and she was 17. The grooming part of things is that Ed did want to meet up. Now for what reason was Ed trying to meet up with her? Ultimately he never said anything explicit but we tend to assume he wanted a relationship. He didn't outright say that. But he did like photos, complimented her and behaved in a way to suggest that. She feels she was groomed because she was a naive woman talking to someone older and established in an industry she wants to be part of.
So grooming is all based on opinion and not something concrete? That’s disappointing. That means people can just throw the word around without having to back it up with a real definition.
There is a legal definition and a general definition. Like anything it can be used outside its definition and sometimes people online use it in stretched or ridiculous ways.
It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time (like a teacher or relative)
But talking to a woman online because your horny doesn’t seem to be the same thing. It’s rude or it’s a creep move but it doesn’t seem like grooming to me.
>It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time
There are other people beyond children who we might call vulnerable or people in vulnerable positions who can be manipulated. >It’s rude or it’s a creep move but it doesn’t seem like grooming to me.
But their is a 20 year age gap and other things going on.
A few years ago Right Wingers were calling transsexuals “groomers” because they insisted on doing children’s story time at libraries (there has never been an explanation for this).
It really really pissed off pro-LGBT leftoids on Twitter
So now they spam it constantly any time a heterosexual man tries to get laid (if they don’t like the guy).
So grooming is all based on opinion and not something concrete? That’s disappointing. That means people can just throw the word around without having to back it up with a real definition.
It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time (like a teacher or relative)
But talking to a woman online because your horny doesn’t seem to be the same thing. It’s rude or it’s a creep move but it doesn’t seem like grooming to me.
>It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time (like a teacher or relative)
Agreed. That’s kind of where my mind goes when someone says grooming. Unfortunately it’s used for so many different things that it’s ceased to have a coherent definition.
>I would support a solo Ed show
The CK fans on reddit say they wouldn't ... but you know they would, the controversy would even attract more views. lol
Do they really have fans on reddit? The subreddit was almost always empty, most of the hardcore fans of CK were on facebook (the ringside group they have)
I don't know, Ed, I never saw Reddit talking that much about you and the discord was empty as frick. Your audience is as old as you are, you should know.
yeah the average age of the group was in the mid 30s-mid 40s range, pretty much the same than the hosts, or anyone who was there to remember the situation of the comics world when Image became a thing.
>yeah the average age of the group was in the mid 30s-mid 40s range
Makes sense. CK and Tom Scioli's Total Recall Show are unfiltered GenX-core. A refreshing change from all the millennial and zoomer channels on YT (yeah I'm a late GenX-er).
speaking of which. anyone in the cartoonist kayfabe ringside seats facebook group? how are they handling it?
1 month ago
Anonymous
I was writing this in the other thread before it got deleted; basically people were hating on Ed for months already, this was just a nail on the coffin. Thing is, a lot of people on the group are basically failed artists, so they'd kill to be jobbers. Lots of people reveling in shitting on him and calling him a creep.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Failed artists should just stick to conquering Poland and other healthy outlets for their frustrations.
Ed should work with living the line guys
They like Dave sim, Brandon Graham and Carson got really mad about people cancelling Bastien Vives from the French Comic con
Living the Line might have found the perfect business plan for a small comics publisher >find a guy that got “cancelled” >has some level of fan base >publish his books
They couldn’t get Brandon Graham or Dave sim at the peak of their career but now that the terminally online set hates them they can sign them up for cheap
I looked up some of the Vives books they did. In the comments they accuse him of a "men writing women" type of shtick. I also got an earl grey vid with Vives in my reccomendations, in the comments, only one guy called him out on reviewing "problematic people" (funnily the guy had an english name) but earl grey replied that he was innocent until proven guilty. However, it seems there's an actual criminal case against Vives.
Can't wait for tomorrow, when David Choe reveals it has all been him catfishing him all along. Including setting fake IG profiles, and Jim is in on the joke.
He was the one with the balls to handle the Hart D. Fisher interview on his own thuogh. And I think most of the other smaller, "out of the box" shoots were done by Jim alone as well.
honestly i always liked most of their videos,the whole pro wrestling gimmick is just cringe tho like you are old as frick,grow up and move on
not surprised they are rapists i guess
who i watch for 90s comics and wizard magazines kino now?
there are a lot of comic channels even with pros
none of them were as popular as CK.
I couldn't tell you why. They probably don't put out daily episodes.
People can hate Ed but at least he said he thought some comics were lame. Most of these people are ass kissers unless they are ComicGators and they are memes
>I couldn't tell you why
It felt pretty candid and unguarded. Most channels tend to be either overtly positive or negative, depending on what they think their audience wants.
CK just felt like a couple of guys just shooting the shit about random comics that somehow triggered their interest for whatever reason and they were never trying to take part in some external agenda.
I gotta say though, they had been falling into clickbait territory lately and that was pretty fricking annoying. And it really felt it was Ed behind that.
>I gotta say though, they had been falling into clickbait territory lately and that was pretty fricking annoying. And it really felt it was Ed behind that.
Up until this last weekend, I was clicking on their videos less and less because of that. I'd watch the shoot interviews but skip the other videos because of the bullshit clickbait thumbnails with hyper-negative titles.
I have to wonder if both of them were starting to hate it. A few months ago Ed bought a bunch of comics that they were thinking of showing off and they were just corporate stuff from the Big Two, stuff they said they wouldn'tt alk about because it had enough discourse already. However you have to think that the videos that put them out there at first were the Wizard ones. Not the comics talk ones.
The videos lately definitely weren't as good as a couple years ago. They really seemed to be just putting absolute garbage under the microscope for some reason. You can tell when they actually like looking at something, usually artist editions or monographs or some obscure fill in issue. But lately it was like, here's a bunch of Amalgam comics. Who the frick wants to look at those. There's only a few even worth looking at and they already did.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Even as a dumb 10yo, I felt like Amalgam was a stupid move. It was just so desperate. None of the concepts were good. At least some goos artists worked on them I guess.
They were getting tired of doing the Wizard videos, too. They were having fun with them when it was the era they were getting into comics and had nostalgia for (the early 90's) but they were getting pretty worked up at how awful the coverage was getting and the horrible state of the comic book industry in-general being covered in '95-'96.
They said they were going to stopmaking them like 10 times lol but they kept going anyways. I do remember an issue of Wizard, and I have to say that's something else I found to be terribly stupid.
I guess I'll go back to watching channels like Richard Friend's, then,
They were getting tired of doing the Wizard videos, too. They were having fun with them when it was the era they were getting into comics and had nostalgia for (the early 90's) but they were getting pretty worked up at how awful the coverage was getting and the horrible state of the comic book industry in-general being covered in '95-'96.
Yeah, I was pretty much on the same boat. I definitely prefered when they'd just pull out random comics I had never heard of, or started going into lesser known, sometimes hard to find stuff from well known authors.
And I also really enjoyed the "haul" videos, because they really did pull out and give you a quick flip through some weird shit you'd never see in the flesh, specially if you're not in the US like me.
But even if it was just the shoot interviews, or the guest commentary vids, it was already worth it.
I miss the haul videos where they go through dozens of weird shit from the 80s and 90s. The early years really had them being like sort of champions of the indie guys.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Something happened with Ed behind-the-scenes. On their Death of Superman video, he reached out to the Kayfabe "community" to make an Outlaw Comics 'Death of Superman' book that DC wouldn't dare to publish. There was a grassroots effort to put one together online, they sent copies to Jim and Ed assuming they would be featured on CK, and Ed totally blew them off and even talked shit about the project on another channel. It really burned the community Ed had cultivated online before the accusations came out, and kind of put a bad cap on CK featuring grassroots indie books.
1 month ago
Anonymous
They showed off a couple of the bootlegs and made the Death of Power guy a lot of money probably by shilling his version in a few videos. Ed definitely got a big head about the channel though. He kept trying to change things up that just became annoying.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I was in that fan group, I actually mentioned in the other thread. The stuff they did at the beginning like the Image book was kinda cool for a fan project, but you could tell that the guys who kept doing these were like even worse than deviantart tier. I don't know the exat time frame off the top of my head, but I don't know if they did it before or after they showed that book where this dude made an edgy version of the Batman book where Bane breaks his back. I think that was the catalyst for them suggesting the community to make a Death of Superman fan book, so I guess they sort of expected something in those lines and not like... some weirdo's first attempt at drawing. I remember that they wanted to make a Twilight of the Superheroes book and a Moebius zine. Both projects went nowhere.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I posted this in the other thread, but they were super upset they glazed over the group's death of superman book...
This is the art that was in it. Ed was saying something like "Make Simon Bisley's Death of Superman"...this ain't it.
There was some cool art, sure, but a lot of it was just... unambitious besides just being amateur.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's about as good as anything Piskor did. Real talent won't be posting on a fan group about a wrasslin comic book channel, much less prime Simon Bisley which no one could ever match, not even Biz himself.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Real talent won't be posting on a fan group about a wrasslin comic book channel, much less prime Simon Bisley which no one could ever match, not even Biz himself.
More than that, actually talented creators know to not waste time on somebody else's IP and put their talent and effort into their own, original ideas. Not sure what Ed was expecting, honestly. Anybody actually talented enough to do what he's asking for will create and publish their own, original work, not Superman gore porn.
1 month ago
Anonymous
There's been some pretty cool bootlegs out there so it's not completely unheard of, but it is a tall order
1 month ago
Anonymous
Exactly, that kind of content was great, but I love how they also would check out some mainstream stuff but still pick them because of specific reasons and not just because they were popular.
Lately they had been kinda desperate to become more popular and hit those 100k so they started doing random shitty X-Men issues and picking really cringey clickbait titles. And I say "they" but I get the feeling that was mostly Ed. He's the one always trying to talk up the popularity of the channel and stuff like that.
For all the edgy talk of Ed and the goody two shoes vibe from Jim, Jim was always the one that seemed really content in just watching weird, unique stuff regardless of popularity.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It has been implied that Jim owns hentai doujins. He did buy porn comics, maybe I'm mandelaing but I do seem to remember him not showing some.books he bought due to sexual content. Street Angel has a sort of homage shot to Blade of the Immortal too. I think Jim is legit more into manga than Ed, really. Plain Janes has the vibe of Princess Jellyfish.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I know comic westaboos are a thing but I wish I got to see one react to Street Angel
1 month ago
Anonymous
I think it would be easier if you somehow contact one of the dudes making doujins, nsfw or not, about superhero comics
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I do seem to remember him not showing some.books he bought due to sexual content
Oh yeah, one time they were showing their hauls on a big sale, he had bought a bunch of the pornos that Fatagraphics put out, or maybe it was a lot of Penthouse comics. Or both.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Jim's mentioned fantagraphics used to only make money through porn for a while in the 80's
1 month ago
Anonymous
Oh, evreybody knows that. It's even on wikipedia. It was a line called Eros Comix.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Jim is an admitted coomer. His favorite comics are Elektra Assassin and Shi.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Ed went to Japan and came back with an entire suitcase dedicated solely to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "boy love" hentai doujins.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I never understood what the appeal there was
Or did he buy them in the hopes of scoring with Japanese booth babes?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Just because they're a singular, unique oddity. They're not for everyone, but who else can say they own Ninja Turtles gay porn comics from Japan?
1 month ago
Anonymous
His whole personality is to try and impress others with niche things.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>His whole personality is to try and impress others with niche things.
He's a comic book hipster. I get the impression he's trying to be the Tarantino of comics.
1 month ago
Anonymous
He probably intended to jerk off with it
1 month ago
Anonymous
This, I love the turtles to death but I could never own gay porn of them ''for the art'' I would feel disgusted owning characters I love being treated that way.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I'd get some just 'cause I like to have weird shit. And if they're cheap, I'll probably get a couple to give some friends as birthday gifts.
It's just funny and somehow endearing that someone would go out of their way to put out some shit like that.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>cringey clickbait titles
Well it was working. I remember when most of their videos got about 2k views, and towards the end closer to 10k (which is still low by YT baller standards but show an upward trend).
Don't hate the player hate the game.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You can choose what game you wanna play.
They had been doing just fine with their Patreon and how much the channel had pushed their sales.
This shitty drama comes with the territory of trying to become an e-celeb.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>This shitty drama comes with the territory of trying to become an e-celeb.
Nah it comes from comics too. See:
I forget which artist it was but he was accused of "grooming" by someone (she was 24 and he was 30 when they met) and claimed comic was about real life stuff. And Fantagraphics pulled the comic in question and apologised.
Sean Gordon Murphy story is even more ridiculous: >Dude is married. >Worked with Magdalene Visaggio, the trans autistic creator. >Was supportive of Mags. >Mags somehow saw this as more. >Sean got shit for working with some CGer, realised what had happened and had the cover pulled before print. >Sean's statements around BLM stuff was taken the wrong way and was not strong enough for lefties either, people got mad at him even when he tried to cover himself and clarify while beinh more supportive. >Mags accused him of lovebombing. >Lovebombing is when someone bombards you with affection and attention with the intent to manipulate you. >Mags clarified he did nothing physical. >Dude deleted his Twitter.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Well it was working
This is why you deserve the sorry state of the industry.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Don't be a cringy manchild
The blame on that is all on youtube
I wonder if Dave hasn't been fully destroyed because he likes israeli lore so much. Satanists and atheists are an easy target, but he admires the works of the Tribe.
Not fully destroyed? He was cancelled before cancel-culture became a thing, but here's the thing: he was always his own boss. No one could fire him. He own his own work. In many ways, he's untouchable. Yet another lesson he tried to teach us, but we didn't listen.
I do see Ed and Jim remaining friends at the end of this thing, but I don’t see CK continuing with them together, at least not for a long while. It probably is best for if they don’t follow each other on social for a while. This situation just sucks.
There's a story Ed told about watching the Crumb documentary on TV as a kid with his dad in the room and his dad looking at him and saying, "You want to be this frick, don't you"?
They came up with that term to describe comics that were mostly in the black and white boom of the 80s. These comics would often have gore and breasts. Some were good, some were bad. The edginess combined with poor production values (since most publishers of this kind were indiesworking for the direct market) made them sor tof "outlaws". Faust is probably the best example of this.
Honestly who the frick would want to be part of this industry or attempt comics YouTube? Ed was stupid and did something creepy but all their channel was, is shooting the shit. Half the people ITT have weird unrealistic expectations of what it should have been. Another group have such a weird hate boner for the character Ed was as if he wasn't just giving casual opinions but declared himself King of comics. You all read into shit so fricking much it is untrue. Seriously it's all weird parasocial relationships. All dancing on the grave of this channel for shits and giggles. Fans or haters it is all the same, drama obsessed. Some of you are behaving as badly as the twitter weirdos you also criticise.
>Honestly who the frick would want to be part of this industry or attempt comics YouTube?
You got me. "The industry" (what's left of it) is filled with narcissistic politics-obsessed vultures waiting for the slightest infraction to stab their fellow creators in the back. The only other industry I can think of (outside the arts) like this is journalism. Guess that's what happens when fighting over scraps.
As for YouTube that's just part of dealing with fanboys who treat their entertainment like religion. It's tied to their identity. So comic YouTubers just need to learn to deal with the haters.
>Is this just some kiwigay shit?
There is a strong lolcow element, but CK is a channel a lot of old school comic fans loved. Regardless of what one thinks of their own work, they had good taste in the classics, covered stuff regardless of genre (including manga), went into industry history, and had a no-bullshit approach that didn't cater to the current political slap-fights. It filled a niche and it will be missed.
Oh, and if it's not for you your Hazbin Hotel threads are to the left and right.
cartoonist kayfabe is secretly Cinemaphile's favorite comics channel, seeing it fall due to the common tumblr arthoe traps really makes Cinemaphile seethe.
By Cinemaphile, I mean those people populating the comic piracy generals on this board.
There was a recent interview, I forget with who, but they talk about not getting out much in high school and Ed turns to Jim and says "look at this guy, you think he had trouble getting dates?" and I think even holds his face for the gag for a second. I think there's definitely a bit of a self depreciation Ed has, especially given how Jim is almost Brad tier as a fairly athletic farmboy with a wife.
>Jim is almost Brad tier as a fairly athletic
What? He's out of shape and balding. He also has a weird clenched jaw, he's no pretty boy, he's just not hideous like Ed.
Average Cinemaphilebro
huh?
that's what he wants you to think
Oh look, another thread about some shit nobody but 6 samegayging autistics cares about. If anyone ITT reads comicsbeat OR watches kayfabe maybe consider offing yourself. You’re all homosexuals.
I’d welcome an entire catalog of Kayfabe threads.
Say what you want about Ed as a person, but if you're studying art it's an essential resource
>Oh look, another thread
These CK threads sometimes lead to interesting tangents on comics. If you need your latest hazbin thread don't worry it's not far away.
Jeez, now I know why he wears shades.
I'd watch Cartoonist Kayfap - Jim beating off to his secret Street Angel folder
Dave sim is innocent
Brandon Graham is innocent
James Harvey is innocent
Ed piskor is innocent
R Crumb is innocent
Cameron Stewart is innocent
>R Crumb is innocent
What did Crumb do? Apart from his love of giant asses.
He's a creep, a racist, a misogynist, a raging antisemite
>He's a creep, a racist, a misogynist, a raging antisemite
I already like Crumb's work, you don't have to sell it to me!
Historically speaking, he's in great company.
he knows that himself. he's exploring his prejudices in his work instead of acting on his urges. it's called sublimation. zoomers wanted to cancel him forever but dont realize art doesnt need to be comfortable, it must be true.
He loved them too much
>James Harvey
That's a name I haven't heard in years. I thought he was supposed to be the new hot thing but as always with these indie roaches, they're lazy as shit. Never even got around to finishing that one comic he said was coming out soon... back in 2014.
He got cancelled by his ex wife
Probably killed a few years off his career after gayagraphics tossed him under the bus and dc stopped hiring him
He didn't have projects lined up at either. He had one at Image he was doing with another person and nother that I think he was fishing it around but only released a prologue, it was about plastic surgery. Anyway if you look at his website you'll see he sell published two comics, Luigi Mode and UK in a bad way and they have low page counts.
jason latour is innocent
what happened with stewart?
>Cameron Stewart
>In June 2020, Stewart was accused by multiple people of predatory sexual behavior. At the time the events happened, the accusers were much younger fans, friends or aspiring artists in their teens and early twenties, and Stewart was in his mid to late thirties and occasionally in a long term relationship.
>The accusers said that he used his status as a professional artist to get them to trust him, while all along this was a pretext for his real intent of making sexual advances, or grooming. Those making the accusations included Kate Leth and Natasha Negovanlis.[11][12][13][14][15] In response to this, DC dropped Stewart from an unannounced project he was working on.[15][16] W. Maxwell Prince and Martin Morazzo, creators of the Image Comics series Ice Cream Man, canceled Stewart's variant cover to the next issue of the series.[17]
Oh yeah. I should have remembered that. I think a friend knew one of those artists.
Couldn't've happened to a nicer guy.
Why'd you say that
>used his status as a professional artist
Lol
The comic book industry is so lame
Sean Gordon Murphy story is even more ridiculous:
>Dude is married.
>Worked with Magdalene Visaggio, the trans autistic creator.
>Was supportive of Mags.
>Mags somehow saw this as more.
>Sean got shit for working with some CGer, realised what had happened and had the cover pulled before print.
>Sean's statements around BLM stuff was taken the wrong way and was not strong enough for lefties either, people got mad at him even when he tried to cover himself and clarify while beinh more supportive.
>Mags accused him of lovebombing.
>Lovebombing is when someone bombards you with affection and attention with the intent to manipulate you.
>Mags clarified he did nothing physical.
>Dude deleted his Twitter.
God, I hate humans sometimes. Why is this kind of bullshit allowed to go on?
Because of Marxism.
I think that’s giving them too much credit.
You will lose the war if you refuse to fight your enemy
Assuming that’s the case, how would you fight an ideology?
McCarthyism
>McCarthyism
Nah, no thanks. Don't want to trade left-wing moronation for right-wing moronation. The people who brought us McCarthyism also brought us the 1954 Comic Senate Hearings & Comics Code. How about no censoring or cancelling or other thought police tactics, period.
Good question. The real answer is no one knows. Attempts to return to the past or resorting to counter ideologies that lost in the past are all doomed to failure.
Cowardice
No one in power is brave enough to tell these people frick off
That’s actually a subtle white pill. All it would take is a few people in power to tell them to frick off: Not all, not most, just a few. That actually gives me some hope.
Because give a person an inch, they'll take a mile. There are a load of tin pot dictators out there acting like tyrants who use their voice to create constant drama. Seriously all these people ever talk about is politics or interpersonal feuds. And on the other side is a bunch of people who would rather fold and take the path of least resistance rather than fight this head on or directly.
>The comic book industry is so lame that “a handful of tweets” is considered bad press
Comics are a niche of a niche. It is a smaller world than people think. Convention circuits, companies are only yay big. A bunch of these people are in groups that spread rumours and gossip. There are barely any sites that properly cover comic news and most of them now deal exclusively in Twitter gossip. They came at Scott Snyder once because he was on vacation and didn't respond to their Men in Comics pledge fast enough.
>If you want to write/draw comics throw up a patreon/kickstarter and save your sanity.
The industry is hugely reliant on networking unfortunately so you have to deal with such people. It is hard to get a decent enough following.
Well it doesn’t seem to have impacted Sean’s career too much anyways so that’s good
The comic book industry is so lame that “a handful of tweets” is considered bad press
That story was so ridiculous it had no traction with anyone with functioning brain cells.
But I have no idea why anyone would want to work in an industry where you would have to network with these narcissistic sociopaths. If you want to write/draw comics throw up a patreon/kickstarter and save your sanity.
Did mags think Sean wanted to bang her(him) ?
By all accounts: no. Mags, like I mentioned, is autistic. And it seems like Sean was genuinely being nice. Then Sean was getting shit on because of a few clumsy mistakes meant he was getting labelled as "not politically aligned". It seems like he reached out to Mags and other people like, "please tell them I am not that," which Mags and others took as him "leveraging his position against them" and not "friend desperately wanting help to not dig himself in deeper".
Oh sorry I read your question wrong when I answered:
I thought you said did Sean want to bang Mags which is "no".
But did Mags think Sean wanted to bang? Probably yes, that is part of the lovebombing schtick and Mags' autism.
Why are there so many trans people in comics? I thought they were a fraction of the population.
Nerd shit = more autistic people = more trans. Perpetually online people, psuedo intellectual types, college educated, left wing people are vastly overrepresented in creative industries at lower levels.
Leftovers from when Marvel invited them from Tumblr.
Because 99% of them aren't actually trannies, it's just IN to pretend you are. Before that, the IN thing was claiming to have a slew of specific mental illnesses. And being offended if someone asked if you were actually diagnosed by doctor.
I swear this was just:
>I WANT TO DO MY #METOO!
And it was the biggest nothing burger.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I have read in a long time and I am legitimately embarassed from having read it.
I am a 22 year old nubile, hot woman and would like to have passionate SEX with the great Ed Piskor.
>Just because you create something that's bad doesn't mean you can't also criticise stuff or review it.
It does though, how can you call yourself an arbiter of quality when you can't make it yourself? It means you can't recognize it.
It's different when you simply don't have a foot in the door so you can't prove yourself or even if you simply don't have an interest in creating, but when you create and what you create is crap, then how can your opinions and views be trusted on anything?
These nonstop threads are because youtube channels garner these autistic rabid fanbases that aggressively shill people like ck or rlm as if they're authority figures but much like how rlm doesnt't review Antonioni or Ozu because clearly that's far above their level since they only consume slop, it's hard to take these ck clowns seriously when what they produce is... crap. Aside from interviews with (better) creators, the channel was pretty worthless, I caught one where they were reviewing Coyote Gospel and it was all going way above their heads and they were trying to frame things as flaws despite them clearly not understanding those things and missing the point.
Cinemaphile is full of people that claim they'd be better than the current crop of writers in comics and while I'm sure 90% of them are actually far worse, they at least don't have the means and connections to prove their worth so in the case of rlm or ck, when you do have the means, resources, connections and platforms and yet what you produce is below even the level of stuff you eviscerate... well, you simply lack credibility. But youtubers are the new rockstars and their goblin fans will always rush to defend their idols failures, it's just a change if the times back in the day everyone could pick up a guitar and dream of making it big, now everyone has internet access so they dream of one day becoming influencer leeches.
you can tell when food is bad despite not being a chef yourself
Yet no one will take seriously the guy screaming 'IT SUCKS OKAY? THE CASSEROLE SUUUUUUUUUUUCKS!' if he's a nobody and they clearly enjoy the casserole themselves. He will be seen as a self important looney.
What is it with Cinemaphile and food analogies?
Anyway, to use your point, you can tell when food is bad even if you're not a chef but if you're a chef and you cook shitty food then you shouldn't criticize other chefs for cooking shitty food.
it's just a common retort against that argument
Why not? it's an exercise of bettering your craft by analyzing someone else's (better) works. Of course they might not get there or the progress might be minuscule but still.
There have been great critics who haven't done any (good) work in their subject of criticism but have produced great criticism and there have been great artists who have produced poor criticism. So it's silly to make a threshold for accepted artist output to be allowed to produce criticism/analysis. Many better comic creators have expressed enthusiasm for CK videos so they certainly got something out of them.
>Why not?
Because you're a hypocrite if you do. You gotta walk the walk if you want to talk the talk. But let's be honest here, you asking "why not?" says a lot about you when I already answered the question in my first post, but I know attention spans aren't what they used to be. Also, professional critics are leeches, there's nothing wrong with discussing things and analyzing both strengths and flaws but when your brain is unable to see the strengths then you are simply not qualified to critique, again, I already went over this when I said rlm reviews slop and not actual films, but to further reinforce my point, a professional critic is a parasite, "those that cannot create, critique" is true for them because they're all up their asses, drunk on their own farts believing they must offer their opinion to help educate the plebes and their arrogance does not permit the thought that they are simply not qualified to discuss a certain work to slip inside their minds. When you analyze something out of fun or love, you do it earnestly, when you do it for a paycheck you can end up underqualified.
Point is, better your craft before trying to critique another person's work because sometimes you'll critique s fellow hack's crap, but other times you will try to tear down something far above your capabilities as a creator.
I disagree. Good criticism is art. CK and RLM don’t of course reach that but I don’t think anyone shouldn’t try to reach that goal.
>What is it with Cinemaphile and food analogies?
Americans love doing it.
Yuropoors hate us because they can't afford food.
In Norway they sleep on the floor and eat bugs
It happens when the word "taste" is being thrown around.
> What is it with Cinemaphile and food analogies?
What is it with calling out food analogies?
Food is universally understood so it makes a good comparison. Some people play games, some people ride bicycles, but familiarity with concepts in those hobbies can’t be assumed. Everyone eats and even if they don’t cook, basic concepts are understood well enough to make a point.
Nta
It's uncreative and shows that you're a fattie with nothing but food on your mind.
Okay Ed.
Shut up Ed.
Uncreative doesn't mean the argument is wrong.
I don't think that was the point since he continued the analogy.
>It does though, how can you call yourself an arbiter of quality when you can't make it yourself? It means you can't recognize it.
No, in the same way that people who create great things many times have utter shit taste. Reading and creating aren't the same kind of mental process and most people are better at just one of those things.
By taking your logic to it's logical end, it would mean that only comic book makers could enjoy comics properly, only musicians could enjoy music and so on.
>By taking your logic to it's logical end, it would mean that only comic book makers could enjoy comics properly, only musicians could enjoy music and so on
Not at all. I can't even say you're reaching because you just pulled that one straight out of your ass.
You say you can't properly judge the quality in comics comics if you don't produce quality comics yourself, then how can you judge properly what comic to read and enjoy just as a reader? Only quality comic book artists could do that.
Is your brain fried?
No, I sound like that 'cause I'm following your logic.
>it's hard to take these ck clowns seriously when what they produce is... crap
Standard NPC line. Wonder how many who say this actually read their comics. Some of Rugg's better work is off the beaten track. Sure they're not Frank Miller or Jack Kirby in their prime—and their writing & concepts could be better, but their work is good enough to give them some insight into the process. They're definitely better than most of the garbage being produced by the big 2 nowadays.
>They're definitely better than most of the garbage being produced by the big 2 nowadays
Actual standard NPC line. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen this line posted on Cinemaphile I could buy both Marvel and DC.
>Actual standard NPC line
I know you are but what am I
>They're definitely better than most of the garbage being produced by the big 2 nowadays.
not really, just different
a lot of the "jobber" angst comes from two types; people who legitimately enjoyed a lot of monthly superhero comics with artists and writers like, say, Rick Leonardi, Sal Buscema, Mark Bagley, Dan Hurgens, etc.
The other half is failed artists who'd kill to get work consistently as jobbers but washed out and are now 35+ and drawing worse than 19 year olds.
Is the era of the jobber over? Seems comic sales are so low that 'jobbers' would need to be on food stamps to get by. Explains #ComicsBrokeMe. Ed's right in that to make it you need a more hustler-entrepreneurial mindset and own your own shit. The only way to make it nowadays, and also based on decades of artists getting exploited even in the glory days. But it's another reason they resented Ed, they've been waiting for their moment to take out the long knives.
>Seems comic sales are so low that 'jobbers' would need to be on food stamps to get by.
It's why so many big two artists are just Spanish or Latin American, now-dollar goes further there.Mos of the comics broke me people are American writers and editors
Spanish artists are some of the best so that worked out in the end, the jobbers now are Twitter and dA amateur artists that can barely draw characters and the backgrounds are 3D SketchUp renders.
The only way you're making it in the big 2 is by being a writer that made something people liked and getting a big contract from them to write more books, like Tom King or Donny Cates. Jobber artists have to do porn commissions on the side so they can feed their families. The CG gays and Kayfabe honestly probably do make more than your standard big 2 jobber because they don't have to sell their creations to a publisher.
>because they don't have to sell their creations to a publisher.
And?
And? It's far more lucrative to be independent these days. The big 2 are dying worse than they were in the 90s.
One of the dumbest posts I have ever read.
Seething fanboy detected.
I mean that post's logical conclusion is no one can comment on anything anymore.
If that's what you got then you're lacking in brain cells.
>how can you call yourself an arbiter of quality when you can't make it yourself?
They never called themselves "arbiter of quality" they would shoot the shit with their own opinions. I sometimes think people get too upset with anyone criticising something. It is the Rotten Tomatoes effect where criticism is just a tool to be used for alternative reasons.
>but when you create and what you create is crap, then how can your opinions and views be trusted on anything?
Objectively speaking they still have a modicum of success greater than most people and have sold books. But just because your books aren't great doesn't mean you can't discuss things, otherwise no one would be able to say anything.
>autistic rabid fanbases
Sure the problem is the meta fan issue. Even the haters are as bad as the fanbases because even they seethe over opinions they disagree with which often means they are taking those opinions too seriously.
>it was all going way above their heads
Sure. Comics YT has a low bar though considering most of it is "fans eating slop" or "wiki summary of comic crossover event". So they are far above a lot of stuff.
>below even the level of stuff you eviscerate
Eviscerate is a strong word, when have they eviscerated things? An odd jobber comment here and there does not an evisceration make. For me I feel like you completely misunderstood the appeal of CK. It was two guys talking Wizard and discussing the history of comics and their journey into comics which evolved into interviews and an exploration of the medium from working cartoonists. I would wager it was background viewing for most people to find the odd interesting book or two, or to hear people shoot the shit with anecdotes. Instead you've made the mistake of inflating them beyond all recognition as this arbiter of quality whose opinions were much harsher than they were. Ironically you have become the meta fan issue I described, the hater who takes shit too seriously.
>Eviscerate is a strong word
Perhaps, but their writing capabilities were never above average capeshit level which is a level that repulses me. But like I said, when you review something and you miss the point, you're just embarassing yourself so don't be surprised when you're laughed at.
>They never called themselves "arbiter of quality"
Anyone that does this for a profit has. Their content generally didn't interest me because it was dollar bin scavenging which I'm not fond of because I'm not fond of this whole collector aspect of the medium, and in general them "shooting the shit" and reviewing only exposed them for being low brow, which I suppose isn't a crime but I feel like you need to understand where you stand instead of getting drunk on delusions of grandeur.
The most I checked out was when they interviewed a creator I liked (which wasn't all that often), at the end if the day, they spent way more time talking to and about old big 2 hacks than trying to help promote an up and coming indie cartoonist.
>it was background viewing for most people
And while I personally don't really care for these "background noise for the sake of background noise" activities, I'd say the bigger problem is how every couple of days someone would try to force threads about them on Cinemaphile which not only is it not the place for this type if aggresive marketing, but that's a lot if effort put into something that's just "background noise" to you.
I maintain that if you actually work in this medium, you should use your free time to try and better your craft instead of making and editing videos about how you paid 50 cents for a comic that usually sells for 80 bucks, especially considering the low quality of their comics. Perhaps their "haters" might've been "bad" too, but it's a natural response to fanboys trying to force this cult of personality crap when it comes to youtubers.
>But like I said, when you review something and you miss the point
All reviewers are ultimately just giving their subjective views and can miss the point sometime. It happens. It doesn't instantly invalidate everything they say. People are human.
>Anyone that does this for a profit has
Their videos were never monetised with ads. The only ads were their own books themselves or Patron (which gave access to their books/arts).
>it was dollar bin scavenging
This feels like another generalisation on your part. There was a variety of content.
>for being low brow
Comparable to what? Like I said in my post, compared to most comics YT they are not as bad, there is a lot of lower brow stuff out there. I do not really know of any channels that really analyse comics in a high brow way, I would love to find some.
>promote an up and coming indie cartoonist.
They did talk about some more modern people but that was never the focus of the channel.
> I'd say the bigger problem is how every couple of days someone would try to force threads
I never saw this happen so perhaps I'll just have to take your word on it.
>I maintain that if you actually work in this medium, you should use your free time to try and better your craft
You can do both.
Anon, I just feel like you have a bone to pick? Correct me if I am wrong in that statement. Part of what you hate them for is you misunderstanding the point or wanting them to be something they are not. They were a rather specific type of channel but in that niche they still did appeal to a decent chunk of people. When you say criticisms like "they didn't promote up and comers" that is like criticising a burger joint for not serving stew, it is two different things entirely. The truth is comic books are massively devoid of good influencers or journalistic media and they were something better than most but granted still not amazing or great. I just feel like your comments are too absolute and specific and seem to not understand this.
>All reviewers are ultimately just giving their subjective views
No, most are framing their opinions as objective, it's why they'll often say "this doesn't work" but often it does, the reviewers simply don't see it or don't understand why it works because of their own shortcomings.
>compared to most comics YT they are not as bad
Perhaps, but the idea that there are worse youtubers out there does not make them any better
>hate
That's a strong word, I simply do not care about them as cartoonists and I didn't fond their youtube content interesting either, but I like seeing interviews with creators I like which they sometimes did. Their fans are insufferable though.
>that is like criticising a burger joint for not serving stew
Again with the food analogies... look, if you want to promote yourself as an indie guy and if you talk down the big 2, then you should talk about current (or old) indie stuff, especially now when the industry is in such a rough spot. Instead they mostly cover old big two crap and they'll even try to throw shade at them even though they themselves worked at Marvel. They covered some indie stuff, too, I know, but their boner was still for those C tier indies they labeled "outlaw comics" in a pathetic teenage-y attempt to make them seem cooler.
>They did
Doesn't show
At the end of the day, what I said still stands so I'll repeat myself, if you are a creator, you should better yourself instead of trying to talk down other works when you yourself produce nothing but uninspired low brow unpolished material. If you don't create, it's different, but if you do work in the medium then you need to walk the walk if you want to talk the talk, it's just common sense.
>most are framing their opinions as objective
This feels again, like you deciding something. CK isn't saying they are objective here. Seriously anon, I have no idea where you get this from. This does feel rather like a projection on your part?
>the idea that there are worse youtubers out there does not make them any better
It doesn't make them better but it does place them in the contextual environment of what comics media is. It is like a fricking barren wasteland out there and people are thirsty.
>seeing interviews with creators I like which they sometimes did.
And the fact we see so little of this really bums me out.
>Their fans are insufferable though.
Do you not get tired of just making generalisations over and over again?
>Again with the food analogies
Don't dismiss something because it is a food analogy. It is perfectly reasonable to say that they were offering a specific product and most of your criticisms are of the fact they weren't offering a product which you wanted. This to me feels like you are criticising them for what they aren't rather than for what they are constantly.
>Instead they mostly cover old big two crap
And this has been explained to you that the channel started as a Wizard history lesson and their journey in comics as kids to adults so of course it covered that stuff.
>They covered some indie stuff, too, I know,
They covered some great creators, manga, knowledge that a bunch of comic readers don't bother with nowadays. (Seriously comics fans now are so bereft of knowledge.)
I just feel like you're not really connecting with any of my points. I am a casual viewer of their show, wouldn't describe myself as a fan. I want better comics media and if anyone has anything to suggest then send some. Most of your points feel like barbed projections. They aren't arbiters of quality or declaring their views as objective. You didn't like their content and that is fair enough but your points just don't really go anywhere.
>And the fact we see so little of this really bums me out.
There are plenty of channels that had interviews/podcast with creators and they were even better but Cinemaphile prefers eceleb style content creators. You get what you fricking deserve.
>There are plenty of channels that had interviews/podcast with creators
Such as?
>but Cinemaphile prefers
>You get what you fricking deserve.
Cinemaphile isn't all one person. And even you must recognise it is fricking hard to find out about such channels and content these days.
https://www.youtube.com/@ComixExperience/videos
?si=y9eitsYrhWrhfc_r
I think most of the videos are delisted or something, they show up on related but not when you click the channel
https://www.youtube.com/@millartime5717/videos
All better, all with actual creators talking about influences, process and whatnot. Yes, even the Millar one despite how hard he tries to ruin them
Thank you anon for coming through with some suggestions. I appreciate it. Will check them out.
>This does feel rather like a projection on your part?
And this does feel like you getting awfully defensive.
>This to me feels like you are criticising them for what they aren't rather than for what they are constantly.
I guess the fans sold it as something it's not. I'm not even get into hoe self entered thid
>Wizard history lesson and their journey in comics as kids to adults
Sounds, but if you weren't about that, some of the fans would get offended at you "dissing" the "best comic book related youtube channel".
>bereft of knowledge.
Exactly how I would describe them, especially when it comes to manga
>I just feel like you're not really connecting with any of my points
I could say the same, you're defending their youtube channel a bit too hard when my problem comes from the fact that they're not very good comic book creators.
>And this does feel like you getting awfully defensive.
I'm discussing things in good faith anon. I want to know where people are declaring themselves as objective, because they aren't.I really think the issue here is more the meta problem of how people see reviewers. I feel like people hold reviewers to weird standards now in the culture war battle over them or petty feuds about stuff. Rather than criticism also being a discussion on how we see things. I miss stuff like At the Movies where the reviews were often those kind of discussions. I feel like people have what a review should be as something rather small and specific rather than many different things.
>I guess the fans sold it as something it's not.
Maybe, I think most people just dipped in and out of what they liked (you yourself liked the interviews).
>some of the fans would get offended at you "dissing" the "best comic book related youtube channel".
Honestly I feel like you spend too much time bothering about fans. Fans of anything can be annoying if you listen to them too much.
>Exactly how I would describe them, especially when it comes to manga
Which is why sometimes the stuff that they introduced was a good thing that expanded people's knowledge.
>you're defending their youtube channel a bit too hard
I am really not defending them in the way you think I am. I am discussing and criticising some points about them as part of the discussion about comics media as a whole. I even said I was a casual viewer and not a fan. So don't take what I am saying as a stalwart defender. Like I said previously, it is a barren wasteland out there.
Bereft is lacking in.
I know anon. I stated in the post before that comics fans are bereft in knowledge. You stated that they (CK) are bereft in knowledge. And I retorted that they did actually cover a lot of stuff that did expand people's knowledge somewhat.
>No, most are framing their opinions as objective, it's why they'll often say "this doesn't work" but often it does
Honestly anon, are you autistic? I don't mean to be rude but you keep randomly deciding concrete things in a bizare way. I don't think anyone in this thread believes that kayfabe believed themselves to be objective scrutinizers of art. People routinely disagreed with their takes, even fans did.
I have never seen any modern reviewer declare themselves to be objective. I have seen moronic culture warriors declare that though.
>in general them "shooting the shit" and reviewing only exposed them for being low brow
What did you expect? Art Spiegelman-level semiotic analysis of comics?
>trying to help promote an up and coming indie cartoonist
Why is this their responsibility? When something vibed with their sensibilities (like Bootleg Spider-Man) they covered it, but it wasn't their duty to be champions of indie comic creators.
>you should use your free time to try and better your craft
They did. Ed's art improved and Rugg's True Crime displays a more sophisticated approach to the medium than his early Afrodesiac. CK was designed to be a hustle to reinforce their practice.
You're betraying your ignorance here.
You shouldn't be criticizing them until you have a comics youtube channel that gets to 90k and over a thousand vids.
The point
...
Your head
No, what it seems is that you're ultimately missing your own point because you can't just own up to how your statements just don't hold up when boiled down to their essence.
Not that guy, you're just clearly missing the point.
got 'em
GIVE ME MY MARCHING ORDERS, JIMMY!
this thread and other seething I've come across online is about their criticism of 'jobbers' etc., but I'm digging into their archives now and the best part of the show is the historical aspect. I've seen few channels that take a deep dive into the industry like these guys. More than just creators, they're huge fans, and their enthusiasm for the medium is contagious.
Most people here actually liked their channel, it's Ed specifically everyone had a problem with. You can critique work without coming off like a teenaged edgelord and shoving a bunch of nonsensical anecdotes about your childhood into every episode. I'm actually sad the channel is dead since it enlightened me on a bunch of comics, books, genres etc. that I would have otherwise never bothered with. They definitely had the best thing going and Ed's moronic ass had to ruin it for everyone.
I liked the childhood stuff though I didn’t always agree with his hot takes
Peter David is usually a good writer
The way Ed talks you'd think he grew up in the 1950s.
He’s working on the Jazz Family Tree comic
>Ed specifically everyone had a problem with
Even that is overblown. He was a bit annoying at times, but it's not like he was like that every single minute of every video they posted. And even if he was, all this joy at all that's going down is really fricking low. We're losing one of the best archives of comic book interviews out there and a bunch of c**ts here are happy 'cause they didn't like he wore sunglasses inside or talked shit about Dan Jurgens.
I'm not happy at all that the channel is gone. I've watched every single video from the beginning every day and would sit in on their recording sessions. But I knew something like this was going to happen sooner or later because Ed doesn't have a very likable personality and it honestly got worse as the channel got more and more popular.
>I'm not happy at all that the channel is gone.
What do you mean, the channel is still there
HOLY SHIIT
IT'S OFFICIAL
JIM IS A CONFIRMED JOBBER
Doesn’t Jim mention being a teacher ? He probably didn’t want to deal with that and Ed
he teaches(mostly) grownups, he's probably more concerned with the kids book publishers he works with.
https://www.ratemyprofessors.com/professor/2165685
ah shit its real. Kayfabe bros I don't feel so good
Yeah frick Ed for ruining a good thing.
It's over, isn't it?
so now what? the only good comic book youtube channel is Comics by Perch, he's the one holding the line
There are no good channels that aren’t pure cringe
nah Perch is a good channel
Strange Brain Parts, Earl Grey, For the Love of Comics
A Tom King fan, a literal neckbeard and an indian?
...
>A Tom King fan
He's just Canadian.
>good comic book youtube channel is Comics by Perch
lmao stop
why you think Perch is not good, what's the alternative the comics explained guy?
His market analysis videos where he crunches sales numbers of specific book titles are pretty insightful.
And his interviews with comic pros are pretty fun to listen to. Specially the ones with Sean Gordon Murphy, they have a good chemistry.
exactly, Perch's middle of the road, above it all attitude is annoying PLUS he's boring as hell
Living the Line is good, but Carson Grubaugh is kind of boring to listen to. There's also Noah Van Sciver. But if you want any kind of mainstream big 2 reviews like kayfabe was doing there's nothing worth watching. Sad.
Carson and Jim should team up and do the dullest channel imaginable . I’d watch it
I still listen to Carson's channel when it's something I'm interested in. He still has an unbiased opinion on things I like. It's too bad Sean Michael Robinson isn't on there more to balance him out.
I don't know about Perch, but I like interviews.
>The Comics Cube
>Noah Van Sciver
>Comic Book Historians
>Jack Kirby Museum & Research Center
Perch is a pseudo intellectual cg ass kisser frick that dumb ass Black person
is this most shocking break-up since Morrison and Millar?
Just a professional break up
No way Jim can show his face anywhere near Piskor now if he wants to keep his career
>No way Jim can show his face anywhere near Piskor
Jim's message is carefully worded "professional association" and "working relationship." It definitely leaves open that they can still be personal friends.
>they both unfollowed each other on IG.
This doesn't mean anything, can just be for public relations.
Nah they both unfollowed each other on IG. Jim probably wants nothing to do with him anymore because he doesn't want his livelihood affected since he mostly works with YA publishers.
Comic book industry is weird
>I can’t be seen with this guy because he’s a creep and I’ll get bad press
There is literally ZERO press on comics . I don’t blame jim , Ed seems like a pain in the ass
>There is literally ZERO press on comics
You'd think, but the Ed thing got big enough to have a segment on local Pittsburgh news:
?si=Pssg6Q4GLEjGGj2y
Ed should just do the show with his dad now
He can also bring in David Choe and Dave Sim
I hated Choe the first time but he kind of grew on me
I think Ed could still get Johnny Ryan on for that shoot interview
>I hated Choe the first time but he kind of grew on me
Same, he's definitely got mental issues but there's a childlike wonder and endearingness to his openness that's refreshing in this cynical world.
His story about trying to catfish comic book creators was funny
I'm certain Dave Sim only sends videos to the guy running his channel not a guy that streams. But I also was thinking that Piskor starts his own alternative Comicsgate that is more of a perv Groomergate with Sim, Crumb etc
Jim and Ed mentioned years ago they wanted to interview Dave but he would have to go to the coffeshop near his house and use their wi fi to do a skype call.
Ed's move now would be to go full heel and travel around doing the Sim interview, the Crumb interview etc. maybe even move to France near Crumb or frick off to Japan forever.
The Roman Polanski of comics.
Polanski fricked a teen in the ass, Piskor couldn't even get a date.
Sim would set Ed straight about dealing with the female void
This is Ed's way forward. If he truly thinks he's an outlaw, lean in to it and give Sim a platform to go full Sim before he dies.
Maybe he could have rotating guest hosts. That could be cool, it would mean different perspectives every time.
>local Pittsburgh news:
do people in Pittsburgh can even afford to have TVs?
The comic book industry is one of the most pozzed industries there is, so I can see why Jim would feel that way. It's not that he'll get bad press, it's that publishers won't want to work with him just by association. Which I agree is stupid.
Being such a small industry it actually means that networking and building a loyal fanbase is actually much more important than if it was a bigger profile industry, so this kinda thing actually has a much bigger impact.
The guys who worked with Bastien Vives still follow him on insta and they remain friends too. Vives often comments on his friends' posts (mostly when they post art) and you have dozens of no name girls calling him out on his stuff, though.
Its a french thing
Bastien just draws weird shit, and its french.
there's a world of difference.
He must be mad as hell, they had a good cozy gimmick and it ended in the most embarrassed way possible.
Oh no! How will he ever thumb through old comics on camera again!?
Good for Jim. I never got super into CK just because Ed's persona is so grating but I've been a fan of Jim's for many years.
Wonder if they'll remain friends or if that's it completely.
If they do it'll never be public. I doubt it, though. Not so much because of what Ed did, but because that would put a strain on their relationship regardless of how bothered Jim was on a personal level. I feel bad for him.
Its all over. do you really think Jim Ruggs wife will allow him to hang out with a pedo
31 Then Ed told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written: “ ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’
32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Angoulême.”
33 Jim replied, “Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will.”
34 “Truly I tell you,” Ed answered, “this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.”
35 But Jim declared, “Even if I have to die with you, I will never disown you.” And all the other disciples said the same.
69 Now Jim was sitting out in the courtyard, and a tattooed girl came to him. “You also were with Ed of Homestead,” she said.
70 But he denied it before them all. “I don’t know what you’re talking about,” he said.
71 Then he went out to the gateway, where another blue haired girl saw him and said to the people there, “This fellow was with Ed of Homestead.”
72 He denied it again, with an oath: “I don’t know the man!”
73 After a little while, those standing there went up to Jim and said, “Surely you are one of them; your accent gives you away.”
74 Then he began to call down curses, and he swore to them, “I don’t know the man!” Immediately a rooster crowed.
75 Then Jim remembered the word Ed had spoken: “Before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times.” And he went outside and wept bitterly.
-Choe 26
Nice.
Bless you
FUUUUUCKKKK OFF ED YOU PIECE OF SHIT
ET TU BRUTUS?
archive everything
No new videos since the controversy and we still don't know if they continue doing it in any capacity whatsoever.
I mean the channel is dead, not gone.
>NOOOOOOO A WHITE NERD CANT MAKE A HIT COMIC ABOUT BLack PEOPLE MUSICCCCCC
t. White Leftoids on Twitter
Ed you ain't never coming back to gen pop, you developed this too cool for school persona with a blaccent and afro clothes from 1992, then you do that corny lame shit? Shiiiiiieeeeeet, you can hide in the solitary confinement playing Streets of Rage 2 for all we care.
He could try joining the Beastie Boys, I think they have a spot open.
FRICK YOU I WANTED THAT JOHNNY RYAN SHOOT INTERVIEW!!!!
Ed calling other artists jobbers was pretty funny tbh. But the aspect of it that made CK bad was that they'd only talk about books/bring on guests that would boost the profile of CK. Always veterans with decades of experience and never anything current. On one of the lives Ed was expressing his jealousy over the channel matttt (which he refused to mention by name) get millions of views for its "dumbed down" and "basic" videos. It's clear that indie comics and youtube are a zero sum competition for them.
I like that channel, you can't hate on comic book historian channels.
>But the aspect of it that made CK bad was that they'd only talk about books/bring on guests that would boost the profile of CK. Always veterans with decades of experience and never anything current.
That's just their taste because they're oldheads who mostly enjoy pre-Y2K comics. And I agree, most of the comics of the last 20 years suck ass.
>Always veterans with decades of experience and never anything current
That's not entirely true but you also have other channels for that. It isn't like a single channel has to cover the whole spectrum of the comic book world.
You're missing the point. They cover stuff that they think will lend cachet to their own channel, things bigger and more established than they are. But never anything *below* them. Why do they say that "comics are better than ever" and "there's more choice than ever before", yet all they have to talk about are X-Men comics from 1990? Am I supposed to go drop off GI Joe boomer comics from 1982 into my local lending library to promote comics readership? The only time they mention something new is if it's from one their personal friends or from Barry Windsor Smith or Daniel Clowes (the established veteran artists) etc.
>Why do they say that "comics are better than ever" and "there's more choice than ever before"
Because of all the fricking manga that's being translated into English for the first time
>They cover stuff that they think will lend cachet to their own channel, things bigger and more established than they are
First off, I couldn't care less about any "obscure" reasons for them to do what they do. As a viewer, what I get is hour (sometimes hours) long conversations with artists that are usually either ignore or just too awkward/introverted to go into such lengthy conversations with an interviewer. I'm not their friend, or colleague. I'm a comic books fan watching a youtube channel, and they delivered good content.
Secondly, while they do focus on "big" names most of the time, they've also featured lesser known, contemporary comic book artists as well. That seems to be more in Jim's wheelhouse and the couple of interviews I can think of off the top of my head were him solo, but they're still do exist.
And again, it's just one youtube channel. You can't and shouldn't expect a single channel to provide everything you want/need. Browse around, find another channel that complements it with different content and then you can cover all your bases. Otherwise what you end up is channels that spread themselves too thin and just churn out half assed content.
>You're missing the point. They cover stuff that they think will lend cachet to their own channel, things bigger and more established than they are. But never anything *below* them
So what? How else would you grow a youtube channel? Even if you think this is somehow bad, so what?
They've talked about more recent stuff, but they both admit over and over that they stopped reading comics in the late 90s for a long time. Also, their channel started off just reviewing Wizard magazine and when Covid happened it turned into what it became for the next few years, which was just looking at old comics they liked.
It’s one of my and others’ complaints about their coverage but in fairness they cover back issues they own and are familiar with, which is a detriment
You receive a sensible chuckle, sir.
I stole it from that dude who keeps making those comics.
You are all naughty anons
I love how they once said "I'm sure there were good Valiant comics" but never seem to be able to find any
I completely agree that they're boring and the only people whoever sing their praises are Jim Shooter cultilsts who like the most meat and potatoes comics and get hard for continuity.
Reminds me of how The Completionist kept making videos
To this day people are still mass disliking them
>The madman got away with it hehehe
so is he innocent?
Show status : SAVED
James Harvey's comment on this video kek
hahaha based James.
Too bad CK never had james on for an interview. Though I don't think they ever mentioned him, they probably didnt want to piss off that homosexual Gary Groth since he banned him from fantraphics
James art style reminds me of Dave (after he dropped being a Barry Windsor Smith clone).
Screencap it, I'm not giving you clicks.
Do you seriously think Dave Sim is posting on Cinemaphile in the hopes of getting views for his weekly updates? He doesn't even own a computer
Yes.
>I'm not giving you clicks
Dave seethes while reading Ezekiel under candlelight as he learns (by carrier pigeon) that you didn't didn't give him his 140th view on the Youtubes.
>139 views? There is a message here from The Lord.
>First book of the bible, third chapter, ninth verse?
>Genesis 3:9
>But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
>A question we are all pondering concerning Ed Piskor. I think that'll do it for the weekly update.
Let's be honest, if you didn't care you would've just screencapped, but no, you want the clicks.
STEEL CHAIR
Wish James had Sim’s work ethic of putting out a lot of work.
James goes missing for like 4 years and has like two new comics (and UK in a bad way isnt very long)
At least he doesn’t pretend to hate cerebus because Dave is an anti feminist / schizo
I like his art but he can't write for shit.
I liked Luigi Mode and Uk in a bad way. Thought he did a good job writing well defined character and the dialog was snappy and memorable
Not paying for them, James. They're way too expensive for the page count. Masterplasty and Mouth Baby weren't good.
Don’t know what to tell ya
Sucks that it’s ending, especially in this fashion. It probably was the best comic channel on YouTube and I wish I had appreciated it more before all this.
Does one of them keep going with the channel? Is it getting deleted? Will it just remain but with no new updates? Has Ed himself said anything about this? So many questions.
I would bet money Ed keeps going with the channel at some point in the future by himself. Probably not daily videos like they've been doing, but every once in a while Ed would film a solo vid of some random comic he had out in between their recording sessions.
nah he's had enough of the internet
He's a hermit. There's no way he won't restart the channel at some point. I don't think it will be anytime soon, but maybe by the end of the year.
I was always under impression that it was Ed’s channel and he asked Jim to help him out
Yeah it was filmed at Ed's house/studio and Ed runs the day-to-day on the channel and the FB/IG accounts.
but jim had had a solo podcast before
Has Ed himself commented yet?
Bitches aint shit but hoes and tricks
Digits and Ed’s dead
It's over for kayfabe threads
>No more Eastman and Laird Trutles commentary
And some folks are celebrating 'cause Ed shat on Jim Lee a couple of times.
No one is celebrating. It was literally my favorite channel on youtube and now it's gone. I still blame Ed for being a fricking smoothbrained moron. What kind of moron do you have to be to actually DM females when you're semi popular?
Oh, absolutely. I'm pissed off at Ed more than anything, it's 100% his doing but these threads the past few days have been driven by people celebrating Ed being "taken down".
Good thing I’m not a C level youtuber because everything I write on Instagram or Twitter would ruin my life
>No one is celebrating
The indie (as in, actual indie) comic community really fricking hates Ed Piskor for whatever reason
They hate him because he was introducing a large audience to good old stuff by instead of fluffing up the milkshake crowd and pretending “this is the real Golden Age!”
>The indie (as in, actual indie) comic community really fricking hates Ed Piskor for whatever reason
Cause he rightfully calls their comics shit, that and he didn't want to support BLM (Burn Loot Murder). Wonder if Jim will make his own channel?
Jim could team up with Tom on his Total Recall Show he's currently doing.
I'm sure Tom doesn't want to take sides in this and will just keep doing his own thing.
A lot of "white" comic book nerds are mad at ed for stealing "black music" and making a hugely popular book about it (at least in terms of indie books)
Instead of writing books about depression or some shit.
He shits on everyone and calls them jobbers while his own art is /beg tier and his writing is middle school tier. On top of this, he calls himself an indie guy making outlaw comics, but he literally did work for Disney. Even artists he didn't call jobbers are friends with people Ed called jobbers. He has no allies. Conicsgate hates him. The mainstream hates him. Indie nerds hate him. And normies who hear about him now see him as that sex pest comic wigger.
Would the response have been the same if Ed engaged with adult women and didn't try his grooming gimmicks and just ask them out? He thought he was it, stay humble.
>Would the response have been the same if Ed engaged with adult women
If Ed used his "fame" to bang chicks...yes the reaction would have been largely the same.
The girl being 3 months shy of 18 is just an added bonus...a lot of people wanted to ruin Ed's career
If he had to resort to that then he just had to accept his cards and date escorts, probably less embarrassing than an "art hoe".
I... I can fix her
start with the eyebrows
Well, if Ed didn't do any of those things, there wouldn't be anything to "respond" to.
He wasn't called out for chatting up a girl, he was called out for the "suck my dick and I'll give you my agent's number" kinda thing.
Ed can team up with bastien
This dude's literally drawn little boys fricking adult women and men jizzing on little girl's faces
>*gets banned from Angoulême*
frick the French
It is bullshit he drew those books a decade before and it wasn't a problem then.
They've gone down from around 91.2k subs to 90.1. I think what would surprise most people is how scandals don't often lead to things completely tanking. Perpetually online people in bubbles respond to controversy more but the average fan might be oblivious. These losses won't stay consistent. I think in a month he'll respond to things, apologise and then make some videos (probably avoiding being fully on camera). It won't be as good or as popular but that's what will happen. Wonder how many will stop Patron too.
i wont unsubscribe. if he's done something illegal, he should go to jail. otherwise i dont care. if we knew all our favorite creators in person, we probably wouldnt follow anybody. i dont want ed to date my sister, but i want to watch his channel.
This, I couldnt give a frick about all this. Keep doing the video, step over the backlash 99% didnt watch anyway.
>Keep doing the video,
Ed can't carry the whole show by himself
I stopped my Patreon sub, but it's only because I know they aren't going to be putting anything on there for a while if ever again.
Alright, are the videos all backed up now?
What's the capeshit comic equivalent to this?
>Villain wins in the end
Why is this homosexual pretending like he has anything to with this
Does he genuinely think people are waiting for his pronouncements on this issue
He's a typical virtue signaller with a bone to pick worming his way into a situation. He'll also probably turn out to be some kind of sex offender who was overcompensating.
Can someone get on twitter and tell this fat Hispanic to shut the frick up? No way am I going to that hellhole
can we cancel this twerp
People are missing Jim was the Sims fanboy who always bought him up not Ed.
Before this groomer shit happened I rooted for Ed
I'd rather root for a shameless jackass over a pretentious snob any day of the week
>People are missing Jim was the Sims fanboy who always bought him up not Ed.
Makes sense. The better parts of Cerebus are something that feels more in Jim's ballpark.
This guy is a giant piece of shit, he's taken shots at Jim for YEARS. Apart from Ed. Snide put downs, shit talking, little comments. Fat fricking whale. OPEN UP YOUR DMS "NICE GUY" You know it's the same shit as Ed only under the guys of nice guy irony. The cuckiest followers, can't even call them fans bc they just heard tell of him through his Will Menaker reply-guying. Really cute he took the lead on this whole witch hunt, you fat fricking dork.
>under the guys of nice guy irony.
Under the *guise, obv
I've told this story before but years back he was dissing Ed for cultural appropriation to his pale basedfacing white SJW fans, and this dorky looking white dude calls ed "A white dweeb" I screenshot his own dorky looking profile picture back at him and Ramon goes, "Yeah but this guy wouldn't deny being a a white dweeb" shitting on him, throwing him under the bus to his confusion. The whole race dynamic between him and his Chapo fan followers is fricking bleak.
Damn, this honky maaaaad as hell.
Yeah, just tired of his having it both ways. Spending 6 years sticking the knife in Jim's back to pull it out and say, actually he's cool, I like Jim, to sticking it back in again over and over.
Who is this disgusting BLOB and how is he relevant to anything?
Failed comic artist who has been leading the charge against Ed and Jim since the channel began, trying his hardest to get them cancelled for cultural appropriation. His whole thing is what if X character, but cholo. So cholo Wonder Woman, cholo Batman, etc. Ed's being a wigger just broke his brain, he's supposed to be the "ethnic guy," he's supposed to have Ed and Jim's following, how could they be allowed to get away with this?? And so when this story broke last week, he consumed a steady supply of energy drinks and took point, doing all he could to lead the lynch mob. It's been his finest hour.
Thing is too, when the story broke he had a jolly good time with it. He was like "HAHAH awe shit kayfabers that's ya boyee? Ya'll grew up with him tho? HAHAHA" and then pivoted to, "This is a heinous act of predatory groomation and one that as a society we must treat with the utmost contempt and speak of only in reverent tones." But you can't have it both ways. If it's such a serious, disgusting, wretched thing why would you celebrate it and meme on it and have fun with it? He gave the game away. Him and so many other aggrieved artists dont care about the "victim," they just want to see Ed suffer. It's fun. Which, fine. But you can't remain on the moral high ground. Or any ground for too long you fat frick.
It would be hard to really believe that an adult female would suffer any psychological issues because a random guy from the internet tried to bang her.
And she says the same, actually. But not the aggreived artists whose work they never reviewed or who found Ed smug or whatever. It's thier show now, she's just in the way.
Ed should have her be his new co host . The ultimate heel turn (or whatever the wrestling term would be)
Damn, you must really be gotten to if you wrote all that wall of text.
You'll never be Frank Quitely, Ramon.
Npc reply, Bendis.
I read Bendis' DD run last month and it was pretty alright, should I keep going with Brubaker?
You tell me, Brian.
Heard you talking shit about my boy like I wouldn't find out
Go back to tracing, buddy boy.
Like Ed himself says, if tracing was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
Him and sin-kev-itch tbh
I heard Billy the Sink and Frank Miller would get wasted and throw knives at each other instead of working
Bendis DD is garbage.
You fail English? That's unpossible!
Indian moment.
calm down Ed
So who is comix twitter gonna hate now?
Who gives a frick. All those people are literally moronic, why would I care about their imput?
Its over bros. Piskor and Jim Rugg broke up
truly the Pat and Matt of comics youtube
also reminder that they stole the format from them, wrassling lingo included
Didn't Ed say he stole the idea from some guy that reviews old Nintendo Power's or something?
>Piskor and Jim Rugg broke up
no bros before hoes i guess
I wanted them to read more Omega Red comics
there is no them anymore
there will be no more marching orders
Give the marching orders Jimmy.
Give me the restraining orders, Jimmy
Would Ed Piskor make for a good Street Angel villain?
Bros
I think ill read less comics
just cancelled all my amazon orders... it truly is over.......
I really just cannot have shit that I like in this Earth.
The Lord Gives, The Lord Takes Away, I guess.
>I really just cannot have shit that I like in this Earth.
Yeah it seems like that. Just hope he keeps the channel up. There's a bunch of videos I haven't watched and now is a good time to catch up.
>remind them of those marching orders, Sim
>read more bible
Yeah Ed fricked up, but reading all the "I'm ashamed to have read his comics," "I'm unsubscribing," "He should be banished from comics forever," on plebbit & shitter is lame. Motherfrickers, every artist you've loved from The Beatles to your fave YA novelist has a closet full of skeletons. And most of these virtue-signaling morons have done something that will get them cancelled in a heartbeat.
That reminds, I should really get back to reading/watching Kenshin
Kenshin's frickin great anon, have fun
Yeah in the big picture I don't think what Ed did is unforgivable.
He broke an unwritten rule of our society. And that rule is, don't date anybody who is old enough to be your kid.
>Yeah Ed fricked up, but reading all the "I'm ashamed to have read his comics," "I'm unsubscribing," "He should be banished from comics forever," on plebbit & shitter is lame.
All those people you describe deserve to end up in the cuckshed
They all sound like homosexuals and no one should ever take anything they say seriously. I honestly think creators should just delete all social media and have nothing to do with fans at this point. Ed screwed up and I think he is an butthole but no one deserves to have their life collapse over this.
Nobody's gonna save the videos in case he takes them down aren't they?
?si=D9JomDTaGDfyGNeA
Oh sweet thanks
If that's your channel, bless you
get the EVS video where he talked about how Marvel handled his participation in the X Men books
Going to archive anything other than just shoot interviews?
Yes, I'm trying to prioritize on the videos that I like and the ones related to the comic making process.
I'm uploading all of the shoot interviews to internet archive.
You're a prince thank u
Thanks, friend.
I knew it won't last forever but I didn't think it end like this, wild journey but was fun to watch.
Unless Ed pulls an Uno Reverse card on Jim taking them both down
This is how a scandal dies, not with an explosion but with a shrug. All the momentum is gone. A few skeevy stories but nothing illegal. Mental takes everywhere. Channel basically dead. This was all bluster and honestly felt like a fricking stitch up. I think so many of the people ITT and online willed for this to be bigger.
In retrospect, maybe Jim was always looking for a way out.
>Jim researched how to become a 17 year old art hoe to bait Ed to create a situation from which to escape
>spent millions on experimental research
>Tom just told him to rip off someone's instagram photos, wait until his art show and post about it then refuse to do any interviews
Look on the bright side: he'll never have to sit in silence while Ed insults a colleague again
how much money did Cartoonist Kayfabe make again?
Not sure but they probably made a lot of money on their patrion compared to how much effort their videos took. I guarantee Jim's booksales without CK wouldn't have been anywhere near as good
They literally did a deal recently with IDW to promote and market the new Batman Year One Artisan Edition. They had other deals and shit like that. The "Kayfabe effect" of old books selling out when they viewed them was real.
So it was probably a decent amount of money.
Imagine being IDW right now.
I think they have more pressing matters
I don't think the channel itself was very profitable. They made their money from advertising their books and Patreon.
>I don't think the channel itself was very profitable.
They didn't get major views, but they made it up in quantity, putting out videos every day (some days more than one). What's sad is that I noticed their view counts increased a good bit in just the last few months (and they were close to 100k subs).
Maybe someone who knows more about YT profits could estimate how much they made.
Was the channel even monetized? I don't remember getting interrupted by ads while watching Cartoonist Kayfabe
>Was the channel even monetized?
Don't think the new videos were but I noticed text ads while watching older ones.
Both of them seem kind of inept when it came to how Youtube worked. I don't even think the channel was properly monetized for ad revenue. They just decided to stick their ad in the video itself to shill their own stuff. If they sought out someone with some knowledge on how to increase reach they should have had way more subscribers than they did.
>They just decided to stick their ad in the video
Yeah the shilling was ham-handed af and could have been handled a lot better (like a tight short clip). It probably lost them viewers.
Other than that I found the format cozy in a public-access sort of way.
>they should have had way more subscribers than they did
I dunno, maybe. I find comics channels in general don't have many views, and ones that follow their format (like Living the Line) make far fewer than even CK.
The only comics channels I see doing well are early adopters like Comic Tropes and ones with a super-slick normie format like matttt (which doesn't even look like a comics channel at first).
>Yeah the shilling was ham-handed af and could have been handled a lot better (like a tight short clip)
I preferred it immensely compared to everyone and their dog shilling Better Help, Nord VPN or Square Space.
>Better Help, Nord VPN or Square Space
True, that's the fricking worst.
On CK, their shilling did work, I bought several of their books. And I'm all for artists getting that bag. It could've just been better integrated in their videos, it broke the flow.
You forgot Raycon Earbuds, Raid Shadowlegends and Ridge Wallets
As a black man, Ed should have known that a white woman would destroy him.
Ed can start putting videos on his own again, he already curated the comments section, as in, deleted all comments that weren't praising him and shadow banned everyone that corrected his goofy "facts".
Not just any white woman, a teeny art girl, I'm still laughing that a teen girl ended his street cred.
I knew Ed was a sensitive b***h when he turned off dislikes on every video.
Dislikes have been removed from YouTube for like 4 years now dingdong
That just hides the dislike numbers. The kayfabe channel has dislikes disabled fully. You aren't allowed to dislike their videos.
That isn't true. I can dislike their videos on youtube. The option is still there.
How are you able to dislike their videos when the dislikes are disabled fully?
Just click on the thumbs down
Ok now you're just being pedantic. You can click the button but it doesn't register as a dislike because they have dislikes disabled.
It doesn't say disabled by owner for me.
Probably because you need the chrome extension so you can see dislikes.
I'd blast a load in all these chicks if given a chance.
I know someone in a previous thread said that Fantagraphics told someone they "had no current plans of working with Ed Piskor" but have they said anything else?
Gary Groth went nuclear over previous allegations with another artist.
I don't think they had anything going on with him anyway other than selling Red Room and HHFT stuff.
This is especially funny because Ed had been sucking up to Fantagraphics so much in their recent videos
I forget which artist it was but he was accused of "grooming" by someone (she was 24 and he was 30 when they met) and claimed comic was about real life stuff. And Fantagraphics pulled the comic in question and apologised.
It was James Harvey, and the person who accused him of grooming was his wife, lol. They were both mentally ill people making each other miserable.
Since they have no ongoing projects with him (and RR and HHFT are probably their biggest sellers) they're probably being discreet as possible.
Also I find there's less going hard in the paint over histrionic online cancel culture shit anymore. There's the creeping feeling that in about 50 years all this is going to look as moronic as the 50s Red Scare, 1954 comic book hearings, and Salem witch hunts.
They really behaved in a knee jerk way in the past but have riden this one out.
>Oh cool! People are discussing Cartoonist Kayfabe, a channel I enjoy, on Cinemaphile! Let's see what they're talking about!
Where you been?
Seems I chose the wrong time to take a break
You showed up just in time. It's over. Now you can binge watch.
This has been going on for almost a week
Were you sleeping under a rock?
The story so far:
>Ed Piskor was messaging a 17 year old girl a bunch, acknowledged her age, also went and liked a load of her old photos (including where she is 13).
>Woman in question (now 21) posted about feeling groomed on her account.
>Ed decided to private the Cartoonist Kayfabe channel as well as Instagram and Twitter.
>Aggressive campaign of defence on Twitter happened with people assuming he was using an alt-account.
>Channel went public again as well as his Instagram (which then posted stuff).
>Other woman have come forward with allegations.
>One said Ed wanted a blowjob or casual arrangement in exchange for his agent's number.
>A third woman said Ed offered to help her in the industry if he could draw her naked.
>Jim Rugg is no longer following Ed on Instagram.
>Original accuser is now posting more DMs claiming that Ed pursued her.
>Pittsburgh Cultural Trust has now postponed an art exhibition for Ed's art.
>Fantagraphics said they currently have no upcoming projects with Ed.
>Some people on social media have posted vague comments suggesting more allegations to follow.
>Local news doxxes Ed and his father rants at a reporter that he did nothing wrong.
>Jim Rugg has distanced himself from Ed.
Links:
>https://www.comicsbeat.com/multiple-women-accuse-cartoonist-ed-piskor-of-grooming-and-misconduct/
>https://www.pghcitypaper.com/arts-entertainment/ed-piskor-exhibition-postponed-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations-25664597
Thank you. what an butthole
Eddie P.
Eddie P.
Wants girls to suck his P-P
More like Eddie P. Diddy, nahmsayin
If it makes you feel any better, the news broke on my birthday.
#t=80s
Footage of Jim Rugg distancing himself from Ed Piskor has leaked
Would dc (or Fantagraphics) have lost a single sale if they kept Cameron Stewart or James Harvey around ?
I kind of doubt it
Cameron Stewart can suck a fart for refusing to draw Seaguy.
>David Bowie bangs a 14 year old
no one cares
>a comic book creator asks a 17 year old for sex
life ruined
To be fair if David Bowie had banged me at 14 I wouldn't have complained either, but I sure as hell don't want Eddie's P.
This is probably a silly question, but is there actually a legal definition of grooming? People seem to use it even when the person is at or above the AOC in their state, which means it can’t just be related to legal age. That and it seems to have inconsistent definitions especially when things like jobs and ranks are involved. I guess I want to know what is and isn’t grooming, going by a strict definition.
>This is probably a silly question, but is there actually a legal definition of grooming?
In my country (not US) grooming is literally:
>communication with a child (underage person) for the purposes of sex, sexual abuse, etc.
A more general definition is:
>taking advantage of someone utilizing a power differential,
which can include:
>abuse of position of trust,
which includes teachers, doctors etc.
People online tend to use the general defintion by way of someone utilizing their power over someone to manipulate someone into doing something they want. Typically one party is "vulnerable" such as a child or younger person, people with a disability or mental health disorder being manipulated by someone older, more experienced with more money, influence, power.
In this case the general argument is:
>Molly Dwyer is a 17 year old who doesn't really know much.
>She liked a post.
>Ed began messaging her.
>He liked photos, talked about nerdy stuff with her and said stuff like naughty girl.
>Then he appeared to want to meet up with her, with people assuming that would be for the purposes of him wanting more.
As far as I am aware the AOC there is 16. BUT there is corruption of a minor which includes:
>The offender commits an act that corrupts or tends to corrupt the morals of any minor less than 18 years of age
But I have no idea how this applies and no nothing about it. Ultimately this is more about Ed doing something morally wrong. Similarly he leveraged his industry position with the two other alleged victims, which isn't illegal either.
>In this case the general argument is:
I should mention:
>Molly was interested in art and is an artist
>Ed positioned himself as someone in the industry with knowledge about art who could help her
I appreciate you taking the time to go into detail, but this still all seems kind of vague and based on a subjective definition of power. Again, this is assuming nothing criminal happened.
>Again, this is assuming nothing criminal happened.
The only potential criminality is corruption of a minor but I don't believe it applies in this case. As there is nothing he attempted to do to corrupt her.
>but this still all seems kind of vague and based on a subjective definition of power
A lot of things are subjective but require a kind of test or examination. Molly is an artist and into art and Ed is an established artist in an industry. So already there is a power differential there with an implication that he could assist her journey. Ed is older, Molly is younger and we know how teenagers can be. Ed started talking to her when he was 37 and she was 17. The grooming part of things is that Ed did want to meet up. Now for what reason was Ed trying to meet up with her? Ultimately he never said anything explicit but we tend to assume he wanted a relationship. He didn't outright say that. But he did like photos, complimented her and behaved in a way to suggest that. She feels she was groomed because she was a naive woman talking to someone older and established in an industry she wants to be part of.
There is a legal definition and a general definition. Like anything it can be used outside its definition and sometimes people online use it in stretched or ridiculous ways.
>It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time
There are other people beyond children who we might call vulnerable or people in vulnerable positions who can be manipulated.
>It’s rude or it’s a creep move but it doesn’t seem like grooming to me.
But their is a 20 year age gap and other things going on.
Grooming is like fascism, it means something vaguely bad and if I accuse you of it, you're automatically bad and can't defend yourself
Talking to a woman is grooming
A few years ago Right Wingers were calling transsexuals “groomers” because they insisted on doing children’s story time at libraries (there has never been an explanation for this).
It really really pissed off pro-LGBT leftoids on Twitter
So now they spam it constantly any time a heterosexual man tries to get laid (if they don’t like the guy).
So grooming is all based on opinion and not something concrete? That’s disappointing. That means people can just throw the word around without having to back it up with a real definition.
It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time (like a teacher or relative)
But talking to a woman online because your horny doesn’t seem to be the same thing. It’s rude or it’s a creep move but it doesn’t seem like grooming to me.
>It seems like it should apply to some adult who would have constant contact with a child over a period of time (like a teacher or relative)
Agreed. That’s kind of where my mind goes when someone says grooming. Unfortunately it’s used for so many different things that it’s ceased to have a coherent definition.
I would support a solo Ed show
Guess he'd have to be used to flying solo, eh? EH?
Insides Eds Head
>I would support a solo Ed show
The CK fans on reddit say they wouldn't ... but you know they would, the controversy would even attract more views. lol
Do they really have fans on reddit? The subreddit was almost always empty, most of the hardcore fans of CK were on facebook (the ringside group they have)
80% of their fanbase is literally redit.
I don't know, Ed, I never saw Reddit talking that much about you and the discord was empty as frick. Your audience is as old as you are, you should know.
>facebook
Jesus, the King Kayfabers must've been boomers
yeah the average age of the group was in the mid 30s-mid 40s range, pretty much the same than the hosts, or anyone who was there to remember the situation of the comics world when Image became a thing.
>yeah the average age of the group was in the mid 30s-mid 40s range
Makes sense. CK and Tom Scioli's Total Recall Show are unfiltered GenX-core. A refreshing change from all the millennial and zoomer channels on YT (yeah I'm a late GenX-er).
bro where else are we supposed to go?None of my classmates and old friends are on tiktok or x or shit. at least not in a networking capacity
speaking of which. anyone in the cartoonist kayfabe ringside seats facebook group? how are they handling it?
I was writing this in the other thread before it got deleted; basically people were hating on Ed for months already, this was just a nail on the coffin. Thing is, a lot of people on the group are basically failed artists, so they'd kill to be jobbers. Lots of people reveling in shitting on him and calling him a creep.
Failed artists should just stick to conquering Poland and other healthy outlets for their frustrations.
can you post screenshots of the butthurt?
Ed should work with living the line guys
They like Dave sim, Brandon Graham and Carson got really mad about people cancelling Bastien Vives from the French Comic con
thanks for the channel reccomendation, their videos already show more diverse stuff than CK ever had
I like Carson but he’s even more laid back then Jim
Living the line is doing some book with James Harvey too
So they really like cancelled guys
They're writing for him?
No, they publish books
Living the Line might have found the perfect business plan for a small comics publisher
>find a guy that got “cancelled”
>has some level of fan base
>publish his books
They couldn’t get Brandon Graham or Dave sim at the peak of their career but now that the terminally online set hates them they can sign them up for cheap
To be fair Carson did a little more than just sign Dave Sim up
I see. That's never coming out then.
I looked up some of the Vives books they did. In the comments they accuse him of a "men writing women" type of shtick. I also got an earl grey vid with Vives in my reccomendations, in the comments, only one guy called him out on reviewing "problematic people" (funnily the guy had an english name) but earl grey replied that he was innocent until proven guilty. However, it seems there's an actual criminal case against Vives.
Can't wait for tomorrow, when David Choe reveals it has all been him catfishing him all along. Including setting fake IG profiles, and Jim is in on the joke.
Classic Choe move
He really is a little pussy yes man.
He needed the Kayfabe audience to sell his books to, he's not prolific or popular enough to keep buying Mrs. Rugg all those mink coats otherwise
Ed should frick Mrs. Rugg's rugg as revenge.
He couldn't bang some impressionable young art girl, you think he has any chance with a married woman?
He would if he was actually black.
Were you jerking off as you typed that?
Yes.
I like Jim. Do not lump Jim with Ed
it's all so tiresome
He was the one with the balls to handle the Hart D. Fisher interview on his own thuogh. And I think most of the other smaller, "out of the box" shoots were done by Jim alone as well.
>Interrupts Jim
Ugh..I hate.
Here's all the shoot interviews. I don't know why the page title ended up like that, but I don't know how to change it so frick it.
https://archive.org/details/a-badge-of-youth-culture-americas-manga-ambassador-frederik-l.-schodt-shoot-inte
God bless ya
A service has been rendered. Never shall we see such interviews again.
Thank you.
In the meantime, I'll focus on archive all the other non-Shoot Interview videos.
Jim deserves to be spared. He never did anything wrong, he respects the audience. Ed on other hand, he should be crucified
Contemplate this on the tree of woe?
How about fap? I will jerk off my woes
honestly i always liked most of their videos,the whole pro wrestling gimmick is just cringe tho like you are old as frick,grow up and move on
not surprised they are rapists i guess
who i watch for 90s comics and wizard magazines kino now?
I really wonder why no other creators stole the Kayfabe formula to shill their own books.
Probably because it dun work, many tried.
there are a lot of comic channels even with pros
none of them were as popular as CK.
I couldn't tell you why. They probably don't put out daily episodes.
People can hate Ed but at least he said he thought some comics were lame. Most of these people are ass kissers unless they are ComicGators and they are memes
>I couldn't tell you why
It felt pretty candid and unguarded. Most channels tend to be either overtly positive or negative, depending on what they think their audience wants.
CK just felt like a couple of guys just shooting the shit about random comics that somehow triggered their interest for whatever reason and they were never trying to take part in some external agenda.
I gotta say though, they had been falling into clickbait territory lately and that was pretty fricking annoying. And it really felt it was Ed behind that.
>I gotta say though, they had been falling into clickbait territory lately and that was pretty fricking annoying. And it really felt it was Ed behind that.
Up until this last weekend, I was clicking on their videos less and less because of that. I'd watch the shoot interviews but skip the other videos because of the bullshit clickbait thumbnails with hyper-negative titles.
I have to wonder if both of them were starting to hate it. A few months ago Ed bought a bunch of comics that they were thinking of showing off and they were just corporate stuff from the Big Two, stuff they said they wouldn'tt alk about because it had enough discourse already. However you have to think that the videos that put them out there at first were the Wizard ones. Not the comics talk ones.
The videos lately definitely weren't as good as a couple years ago. They really seemed to be just putting absolute garbage under the microscope for some reason. You can tell when they actually like looking at something, usually artist editions or monographs or some obscure fill in issue. But lately it was like, here's a bunch of Amalgam comics. Who the frick wants to look at those. There's only a few even worth looking at and they already did.
Even as a dumb 10yo, I felt like Amalgam was a stupid move. It was just so desperate. None of the concepts were good. At least some goos artists worked on them I guess.
They said they were going to stopmaking them like 10 times lol but they kept going anyways. I do remember an issue of Wizard, and I have to say that's something else I found to be terribly stupid.
I guess I'll go back to watching channels like Richard Friend's, then,
They were getting tired of doing the Wizard videos, too. They were having fun with them when it was the era they were getting into comics and had nostalgia for (the early 90's) but they were getting pretty worked up at how awful the coverage was getting and the horrible state of the comic book industry in-general being covered in '95-'96.
Yeah, I was pretty much on the same boat. I definitely prefered when they'd just pull out random comics I had never heard of, or started going into lesser known, sometimes hard to find stuff from well known authors.
And I also really enjoyed the "haul" videos, because they really did pull out and give you a quick flip through some weird shit you'd never see in the flesh, specially if you're not in the US like me.
But even if it was just the shoot interviews, or the guest commentary vids, it was already worth it.
I miss the haul videos where they go through dozens of weird shit from the 80s and 90s. The early years really had them being like sort of champions of the indie guys.
Something happened with Ed behind-the-scenes. On their Death of Superman video, he reached out to the Kayfabe "community" to make an Outlaw Comics 'Death of Superman' book that DC wouldn't dare to publish. There was a grassroots effort to put one together online, they sent copies to Jim and Ed assuming they would be featured on CK, and Ed totally blew them off and even talked shit about the project on another channel. It really burned the community Ed had cultivated online before the accusations came out, and kind of put a bad cap on CK featuring grassroots indie books.
They showed off a couple of the bootlegs and made the Death of Power guy a lot of money probably by shilling his version in a few videos. Ed definitely got a big head about the channel though. He kept trying to change things up that just became annoying.
I was in that fan group, I actually mentioned in the other thread. The stuff they did at the beginning like the Image book was kinda cool for a fan project, but you could tell that the guys who kept doing these were like even worse than deviantart tier. I don't know the exat time frame off the top of my head, but I don't know if they did it before or after they showed that book where this dude made an edgy version of the Batman book where Bane breaks his back. I think that was the catalyst for them suggesting the community to make a Death of Superman fan book, so I guess they sort of expected something in those lines and not like... some weirdo's first attempt at drawing. I remember that they wanted to make a Twilight of the Superheroes book and a Moebius zine. Both projects went nowhere.
I posted this in the other thread, but they were super upset they glazed over the group's death of superman book...
This is the art that was in it. Ed was saying something like "Make Simon Bisley's Death of Superman"...this ain't it.
There was some cool art, sure, but a lot of it was just... unambitious besides just being amateur.
That's about as good as anything Piskor did. Real talent won't be posting on a fan group about a wrasslin comic book channel, much less prime Simon Bisley which no one could ever match, not even Biz himself.
>Real talent won't be posting on a fan group about a wrasslin comic book channel, much less prime Simon Bisley which no one could ever match, not even Biz himself.
More than that, actually talented creators know to not waste time on somebody else's IP and put their talent and effort into their own, original ideas. Not sure what Ed was expecting, honestly. Anybody actually talented enough to do what he's asking for will create and publish their own, original work, not Superman gore porn.
There's been some pretty cool bootlegs out there so it's not completely unheard of, but it is a tall order
Exactly, that kind of content was great, but I love how they also would check out some mainstream stuff but still pick them because of specific reasons and not just because they were popular.
Lately they had been kinda desperate to become more popular and hit those 100k so they started doing random shitty X-Men issues and picking really cringey clickbait titles. And I say "they" but I get the feeling that was mostly Ed. He's the one always trying to talk up the popularity of the channel and stuff like that.
For all the edgy talk of Ed and the goody two shoes vibe from Jim, Jim was always the one that seemed really content in just watching weird, unique stuff regardless of popularity.
It has been implied that Jim owns hentai doujins. He did buy porn comics, maybe I'm mandelaing but I do seem to remember him not showing some.books he bought due to sexual content. Street Angel has a sort of homage shot to Blade of the Immortal too. I think Jim is legit more into manga than Ed, really. Plain Janes has the vibe of Princess Jellyfish.
I know comic westaboos are a thing but I wish I got to see one react to Street Angel
I think it would be easier if you somehow contact one of the dudes making doujins, nsfw or not, about superhero comics
>I do seem to remember him not showing some.books he bought due to sexual content
Oh yeah, one time they were showing their hauls on a big sale, he had bought a bunch of the pornos that Fatagraphics put out, or maybe it was a lot of Penthouse comics. Or both.
Jim's mentioned fantagraphics used to only make money through porn for a while in the 80's
Oh, evreybody knows that. It's even on wikipedia. It was a line called Eros Comix.
Jim is an admitted coomer. His favorite comics are Elektra Assassin and Shi.
Ed went to Japan and came back with an entire suitcase dedicated solely to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles "boy love" hentai doujins.
I never understood what the appeal there was
Or did he buy them in the hopes of scoring with Japanese booth babes?
Just because they're a singular, unique oddity. They're not for everyone, but who else can say they own Ninja Turtles gay porn comics from Japan?
His whole personality is to try and impress others with niche things.
>His whole personality is to try and impress others with niche things.
He's a comic book hipster. I get the impression he's trying to be the Tarantino of comics.
He probably intended to jerk off with it
This, I love the turtles to death but I could never own gay porn of them ''for the art'' I would feel disgusted owning characters I love being treated that way.
I'd get some just 'cause I like to have weird shit. And if they're cheap, I'll probably get a couple to give some friends as birthday gifts.
It's just funny and somehow endearing that someone would go out of their way to put out some shit like that.
>cringey clickbait titles
Well it was working. I remember when most of their videos got about 2k views, and towards the end closer to 10k (which is still low by YT baller standards but show an upward trend).
Don't hate the player hate the game.
You can choose what game you wanna play.
They had been doing just fine with their Patreon and how much the channel had pushed their sales.
This shitty drama comes with the territory of trying to become an e-celeb.
>This shitty drama comes with the territory of trying to become an e-celeb.
Nah it comes from comics too. See:
>Well it was working
This is why you deserve the sorry state of the industry.
Don't be a cringy manchild
The blame on that is all on youtube
>Don't be a cringy manchild
Take your own advice.
Ironic coming from you, cringy manchild
Ed should come out as a gay and say he was in the closet and only hit on women so no one would know hit was like a gay
Move over CK
Dave should grow a proper beard if he's going to become a raving old testament prophet
>GREAT prostituteDOM
I wonder if Dave hasn't been fully destroyed because he likes israeli lore so much. Satanists and atheists are an easy target, but he admires the works of the Tribe.
Not fully destroyed? He was cancelled before cancel-culture became a thing, but here's the thing: he was always his own boss. No one could fire him. He own his own work. In many ways, he's untouchable. Yet another lesson he tried to teach us, but we didn't listen.
I still want that Johnny Ryan interview , you homosexual
Literally who
I do see Ed and Jim remaining friends at the end of this thing, but I don’t see CK continuing with them together, at least not for a long while. It probably is best for if they don’t follow each other on social for a while. This situation just sucks.
How does this make you feel Ed?
There's a story Ed told about watching the Crumb documentary on TV as a kid with his dad in the room and his dad looking at him and saying, "You want to be this frick, don't you"?
Ed wished he was, too bad no art hoe was impressed by his blaccent and no selfie was sent via electronic mail for him to draw.
God bless Robert Crumb
Ed can't draw hot looking women, they're manish with no curves or cute little girls (Which all this shit make sense now)
What are outlaw comics anyway?
They came up with that term to describe comics that were mostly in the black and white boom of the 80s. These comics would often have gore and breasts. Some were good, some were bad. The edginess combined with poor production values (since most publishers of this kind were indiesworking for the direct market) made them sor tof "outlaws". Faust is probably the best example of this.
Honestly who the frick would want to be part of this industry or attempt comics YouTube? Ed was stupid and did something creepy but all their channel was, is shooting the shit. Half the people ITT have weird unrealistic expectations of what it should have been. Another group have such a weird hate boner for the character Ed was as if he wasn't just giving casual opinions but declared himself King of comics. You all read into shit so fricking much it is untrue. Seriously it's all weird parasocial relationships. All dancing on the grave of this channel for shits and giggles. Fans or haters it is all the same, drama obsessed. Some of you are behaving as badly as the twitter weirdos you also criticise.
Okay Ed. Cope harder.
>Honestly who the frick would want to be part of this industry or attempt comics YouTube?
You got me. "The industry" (what's left of it) is filled with narcissistic politics-obsessed vultures waiting for the slightest infraction to stab their fellow creators in the back. The only other industry I can think of (outside the arts) like this is journalism. Guess that's what happens when fighting over scraps.
As for YouTube that's just part of dealing with fanboys who treat their entertainment like religion. It's tied to their identity. So comic YouTubers just need to learn to deal with the haters.
I don't really care about this C-list autistic nonce and I don't get how he's getting constant generals. Is this just some kiwigay shit?
>Is this just some kiwigay shit?
There is a strong lolcow element, but CK is a channel a lot of old school comic fans loved. Regardless of what one thinks of their own work, they had good taste in the classics, covered stuff regardless of genre (including manga), went into industry history, and had a no-bullshit approach that didn't cater to the current political slap-fights. It filled a niche and it will be missed.
Oh, and if it's not for you your Hazbin Hotel threads are to the left and right.
cartoonist kayfabe is secretly Cinemaphile's favorite comics channel, seeing it fall due to the common tumblr arthoe traps really makes Cinemaphile seethe.
By Cinemaphile, I mean those people populating the comic piracy generals on this board.
Watching a pre-CK video with Ed, Jim and Tom from a better time:
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They'll probably go back to doing this kind of stuff just not filming it.
Tfw
>Did you save it? 'cause it's worth a dollar now
Jim proving he's the MVP. He should've taught Ed how to actually talk to a girl.
There was a recent interview, I forget with who, but they talk about not getting out much in high school and Ed turns to Jim and says "look at this guy, you think he had trouble getting dates?" and I think even holds his face for the gag for a second. I think there's definitely a bit of a self depreciation Ed has, especially given how Jim is almost Brad tier as a fairly athletic farmboy with a wife.
>Jim is almost Brad tier as a fairly athletic
What? He's out of shape and balding. He also has a weird clenched jaw, he's no pretty boy, he's just not hideous like Ed.
Well now I just want to see Jimmy talk about Kirby's 2001 for 3 hours
bros what if this is just an elaborate april fools joke
I hope this sordid affair can just fricking end at this point.
I hate you too