Peter Griffin and it isn't even close
S1 Peter is a loving kind father who's a bit on the slow side but means well
Current Peter is a pedophile serial killer
Family guy just changed the personalities of everyone on the show which isn't Flanderization.
Is it really Flanderization? Family Guy runs on the "depending on the writer" trope, so there isn't much consistency in these characters. Just whatever goes for a joke.
[...]
[...]
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Yeah I was gonna say "the entire cast of Family Guy" but that isn't really Flanderization if none of the characters' original traits have been exaggerated. Even one-note characters like Quagmire are completely different than how they were at the start. What do we even call this? Family Guy's characters simultaneously became more exaggerated and 2-dimensional while retaining NONE of the original traits that defined the characters. How do you go from "2-dimensional evil genius baby" to "2-dimensional gay baby who happens to own a time machine"?
Is homer really flanderized, if he's a different character now? He went from a grumpy fat oaf to a gluttonous manchild.
You just answered your own question. Flanders went from overly friendly church goer to walking Christian conservative punchline. His character had become exaggerated from what it used to be.
What Flanderization is is taking one aspect of a character and exaggerating it to the point it takes away from the character. Homer going from lovable oaf to crazy butthole is a change in personality.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It doesn't exaggerate any of his aspects. He wasn't a funny fat man from the start. His obesity was played more to him being lazy and rude than him just liking food. He went from that to being a silly fat guy that has no attention-span. Complete personality change, with no exaggeration.
8 months ago
Anonymous
I meant you answered it in that Homer wasn't Flanderized. And then I explained what Flanderizing is and said Homer was just a change in personality. Understand now?
8 months ago
Anonymous
well by that logic he was flanderized since season 2
Is it really Flanderization? Family Guy runs on the "depending on the writer" trope, so there isn't much consistency in these characters. Just whatever goes for a joke.
Is it flanderization if the character doesn't resemble the original version at all?
Family guy just changed the personalities of everyone on the show which isn't Flanderization.
Is it really Flanderization? Family Guy runs on the "depending on the writer" trope, so there isn't much consistency in these characters. Just whatever goes for a joke.
Yeah I was gonna say "the entire cast of Family Guy" but that isn't really Flanderization if none of the characters' original traits have been exaggerated. Even one-note characters like Quagmire are completely different than how they were at the start. What do we even call this? Family Guy's characters simultaneously became more exaggerated and 2-dimensional while retaining NONE of the original traits that defined the characters. How do you go from "2-dimensional evil genius baby" to "2-dimensional gay baby who happens to own a time machine"?
if the old quagmire met the new quagmire, they'd probably hate each other. the old one would hate the new one cause quagmires a fricking boring buzz kill now
I think it's a weird case, they were flanderized into something unrecognizable but they were all building on things that DID exist in their character. Similar to Flanders who's Christianity was a relatively small part of his character they just did it to a more extreme degree. >Peter is an inconsiderate idiot he's now a straight up sociopathic moron >Lois is a bored housewife now she's a bawd who just hates her family >Chris is a hormonal teenage boy, now he's a chronic jerking off coomer >Meg is a mopey girl picked on for her looks whose family embarasses her, now she's a mentally broken abused uggo >Brian is the comically cultured dog, now he's a liberal douche
Ironically I think Stewie went the opposite way developing from a one note supervillain cliche with occasional gay jokes that's a more well-rounded person that can occasionally introduce Super Science into the plot and will occasionally be evil.
The frick are you on about? In the second episode of the first season he is driving while watching T.V., crashes, and blames Meg for it, making everybody hate her. He never apologies nor takes the blame, she just suffers enough that she confess.
The really hating Meg thing was just a joke from chapter two onwards due to the change of voice actors.
He was always selfish and idiotic, and he did get Flanderized, but it's stupid as frick to pretend he was a loving father.
we gonna pretend the time he protected her when she got a makeover and boys wanted to frick her?
Or the time she almost got married and he looked out for her?
Or the time when Chris was a painter in NY and he bonded with him over his drawings
Or the time when he realized how much his son loves him when they went on the Indian trip?
Or we just gonna pretend one single episode is representative of the entire thing?
>Lori is now a completely insecure and useless girl. She can't even do golf stuff right.
>Luna barely has screentime. And when she has, it's always with Sam. Can't say she turned into a full time lesbian, but it's pretty close.
>Luan got flanderized on april fools episodes, but writers decided to flanderize her outside them making her a really annoying schizo with mr coconuts. She really believes the puppet is alive, and also uses it to mask herself insulting people.
>Lynn is the worst case. She can't stop being a bully or a b***h to anyone. Not even its family.
>Lincoln is now a living joke and a butt monkey.
>Lola in some point turned into a complete b***h who would even kill her family just to win a contest. Fortunately they toned her down and is better.
>Lana is a living gross out joke. All her mechanic or plumbering aspects were deleted. You can teplace her with a dog or a farm animal and won't be any difference.
>Lily is now an evil baby for the sake of "comedy".
>Lynn Sr is now a crybaby.
Leni improved a lot, Lucy is almost the same, Lisa is still the same shitty character from the beginning, and Rita is more caring and less strict
It's what happens when you never stop writing stories and keep killing major bad guys. Eventually you write yourself into corners and the only way out is through via killing character motivations from earlier.
Same reason WoW's plot has been crap, ESPECIALLY with Shadowlands. Can't say for DF tho.
>Can't say for DF tho
It's mostly comfy satam-villain kino, when it's not overly serious grimsad black dragon wankery, but they struck an okay balance this time.
>Eventually you write yourself into corners
Top and bottom are not the same author, actually. Super is not written by Toriyama, honestly, for all his faults he was consistent while he was in charge, he just never care much when other people used his characters.
Toriyama went on to say that he considers other stuff as alternate realities, like GT.
Nah I disagree. He wanted power to close the gap between him and Jiren but he was lost in the sauce in that moment. Immediately after Roshi reminds him and Goku chills out before going ultra instinct for real.
In the super hero recap they’re directly talking about Jiren and how he used his power. Ultimately he wasn’t much different shooting ki blasts and auras everywhere but he had a level of control that can’t be reached with traditional dbz training. The gas arc is all about this with Goku thinking about why he’s got so much trouble with using ultra instinct to its fullest because he is adopting another persons usage of it instead of making it his own.
I disagree with the SH recap part. It just rubs me the wrong way that Goku was one of the first people in the series to realize physical training can only get you so far unless you have complete mastery over your Ki and self control, to suddenly see him pretend like he never knew that or even practiced it in certain case I don't even wanna talk about the "Fibber, that ain't trainin!" meditation meme
It’s not ki control though it’s using 100% of your ability at once. Something Goku and vegeta do not ever do and that’s what Vegeta’s meditation was focusing on and why Goku’s first reaction is to say that’s dumb.
They’re using to pushing their limits but Jiren’s power came from always being at his limit. Ssb is a culmination of ki control but the only time we see them at their limits is during intense emotional moments. Vegeta’s point in that part is that need for the in battle push is a weakness they need to overcome as Jiren did.
Both. For more than 15 years he's been written as a parody of himself and even though that parody is a moron man child softie, he still doesn't deserve the shit he gets in the comics.
Not sure if it counts as Flanderization but it's like they read all the hints of where her character arc was going (appreciative of team, helping Ace grow) and just jumped straight past the resolution into everything's great now go team.
that sounds garbage, like the writers didn't want to do all the hard work of making a good character and just skipped to the end result but with no build up
That's not what Flanderization means, though. Flanderization is an exaggeration of characteristics to the point that the original characters becomes a caricature of itself, or a concentrated Joke.
Brian didn't get Flanderized, people complained he was a self insert for Mcfarlane and a Know it all, so he was adjusted to reflect that.
everything looks at traits of his like "leader" or "willingness to kill when he absolutely needs to" and either makes him a one-note, permanently stoic jesus figure or a violent psycho
It is hard to break down. War Dawn has him get shot and repaired, but The Movie is where they establish the Matrix of Leadership and dies in a way that is treated like a great tragedy. He's revered as a great leader that killing before causes a massive time paradox in Beast Wars, but that would likely happen if you kill anyone. Really it feels like Prime was where Optimus Prime became boring.
Yes, that's the entire point, it's taking their character that existed and exaggerating it to the point it's barely recognizable.
Like anon said before, Ed was a dumb kid but was capable of thought and interests then became a total moron obsessed with shit like Gravy and Chickens
Eddy was a schemer but usually as an ends to a means then later episodes would have him miss the forest for the trees where he ditched a plan because it was just a straigt forward business.
Edd was smart but wasn't a full on hypochondriac nerd
Cartman's weird. Like he definitely got hit when he killed Scott's parents and went on to be a weird little evil mastermind, but in the past 10 years or so they've toned him back down to being a douchey kid nobody takes seriously
How are we defining the "worst" flanderization? Most extreme, or the one leading to the greatest drop in quality? For the latter, I put forth the pink one.
Almost all of Archer's characters got Flanderized or strayed into weird territory, but Cheryl was the worst to the point it doesn't make sense for the characters to keep her around.
I would argue the ones that avoided flanderization are ones that were already over the top parodies. Mr Burns was always an old evil billionaire who would kill someone to avoid spending money . Archer was always a bumbling super spy guided by sex and alcohol parodying James Bond. Maybe Tina from Bob's Burgers has been consistent but I don't watch enough of the show to keep know.
Tina isn’t consistent because they’ve almost entirely dropped the zombie and horse fetishes, and without those she’s pretty two dimensional from the start
When the humor is about their personalities, choices, and actions, then it's inevitable because sooner or late you run out of interesting premises and hit the wall where either a character changes or doubles down their worst traits and becomes consumed by it. Neither are fricking funny, so the answer is to caricature it out because the vast majority of comedy TV (not just cartoons) is about absurdity in the face of reality.
Dumb as hell that people think it's a problem when it's a symptom of the actual problem.
Aqua Teen Hunger Force, or a bunch of other non-serialized cartoons from AS.
Since there's no rhyme or reason to anything and because the characters are meant to stay one-note à la Looney Tunes/Hanna Barbera, the quality just never declines, since you're throwing said characters into fresh, innovative but completely random scenarios. It's like free jazz in a way, it opens up creative libertives but you make sure it doesn't end into a brown note mess.
If Meatwad stabs Frylock in the neck because he didn't buy him his favorite Britney Spears DVD or that Shake becomes a suicidal teenage trans hooker because he met James Woods from Videodrome, then it's perfectly fine, because that's the show was always about.
You can't really ever escape Flanderization. After a certain point you've wrung out everything you can do with your 3 dimensional character and either you acknowledge they have nothing left to offer and send them off, or you play up a specific quirk about them to try and keep them involved a bit longer
It's funny, I'm watching classic Simpsons the whole way through for the first time and seeing how different some characters are. Homer has episodes where he puts everything on the line for his family, Lisa actually acts like a little kid and is one of the better Christians, Flanders is honestly kind of based and the whole joke is he's too nice.
Flanders.
I'm pretty sure Flanders had the least terrible one on the show
Peter Griffin and it isn't even close
S1 Peter is a loving kind father who's a bit on the slow side but means well
Current Peter is a pedophile serial killer
Family guy is a good show.
stop the cap
Is it flanderization if the character doesn't resemble the original version at all?
They both like beer
I think
Is homer really flanderized, if he's a different character now? He went from a grumpy fat oaf to a gluttonous manchild.
You just answered your own question. Flanders went from overly friendly church goer to walking Christian conservative punchline. His character had become exaggerated from what it used to be.
Then what is flanderization for if it only applies to flanders?
What Flanderization is is taking one aspect of a character and exaggerating it to the point it takes away from the character. Homer going from lovable oaf to crazy butthole is a change in personality.
It doesn't exaggerate any of his aspects. He wasn't a funny fat man from the start. His obesity was played more to him being lazy and rude than him just liking food. He went from that to being a silly fat guy that has no attention-span. Complete personality change, with no exaggeration.
I meant you answered it in that Homer wasn't Flanderized. And then I explained what Flanderizing is and said Homer was just a change in personality. Understand now?
well by that logic he was flanderized since season 2
Family guy just changed the personalities of everyone on the show which isn't Flanderization.
Is it really Flanderization? Family Guy runs on the "depending on the writer" trope, so there isn't much consistency in these characters. Just whatever goes for a joke.
yes it’s Flanderization because Peter’s stupidity and Lois’ in-universe hotness have gone way up over the years
Yeah I was gonna say "the entire cast of Family Guy" but that isn't really Flanderization if none of the characters' original traits have been exaggerated. Even one-note characters like Quagmire are completely different than how they were at the start. What do we even call this? Family Guy's characters simultaneously became more exaggerated and 2-dimensional while retaining NONE of the original traits that defined the characters. How do you go from "2-dimensional evil genius baby" to "2-dimensional gay baby who happens to own a time machine"?
if the old quagmire met the new quagmire, they'd probably hate each other. the old one would hate the new one cause quagmires a fricking boring buzz kill now
Yep, Quagmire can't be a pervert anymore so now he has to be a buzz kill
I think it's a weird case, they were flanderized into something unrecognizable but they were all building on things that DID exist in their character. Similar to Flanders who's Christianity was a relatively small part of his character they just did it to a more extreme degree.
>Peter is an inconsiderate idiot he's now a straight up sociopathic moron
>Lois is a bored housewife now she's a bawd who just hates her family
>Chris is a hormonal teenage boy, now he's a chronic jerking off coomer
>Meg is a mopey girl picked on for her looks whose family embarasses her, now she's a mentally broken abused uggo
>Brian is the comically cultured dog, now he's a liberal douche
Ironically I think Stewie went the opposite way developing from a one note supervillain cliche with occasional gay jokes that's a more well-rounded person that can occasionally introduce Super Science into the plot and will occasionally be evil.
The frick are you on about? In the second episode of the first season he is driving while watching T.V., crashes, and blames Meg for it, making everybody hate her. He never apologies nor takes the blame, she just suffers enough that she confess.
The really hating Meg thing was just a joke from chapter two onwards due to the change of voice actors.
He was always selfish and idiotic, and he did get Flanderized, but it's stupid as frick to pretend he was a loving father.
we gonna pretend the time he protected her when she got a makeover and boys wanted to frick her?
Or the time she almost got married and he looked out for her?
Or the time when Chris was a painter in NY and he bonded with him over his drawings
Or the time when he realized how much his son loves him when they went on the Indian trip?
Or we just gonna pretend one single episode is representative of the entire thing?
And then the following episodes treat it like nothing happened. That's every episode of Family Guy.
>they don't reference it every episode so it doesn't count
t. zoomer who hasn't watched early Family Guy
>oomer shit
let me guess you're underage
>I'm not underage, Y-You are!
wow nice comeback, took you 12 whole hours to come up with that one huh
Not flanderization. They had to change because they were just the simpsons and the writers knew it, and the show was floundering.
Why does everyone who complains about Family Guy changing have terrible memories about what the first few seasons were actually like?
We don't, but go on ahead and hyperexaggerate because you don't like the fact that the earlier seasons he wasn't a sociopath like that
Jack Sparrow from movie 1 to 3
Loud family had the worst flanderizations.
>Lori is now a completely insecure and useless girl. She can't even do golf stuff right.
>Luna barely has screentime. And when she has, it's always with Sam. Can't say she turned into a full time lesbian, but it's pretty close.
>Luan got flanderized on april fools episodes, but writers decided to flanderize her outside them making her a really annoying schizo with mr coconuts. She really believes the puppet is alive, and also uses it to mask herself insulting people.
>Lynn is the worst case. She can't stop being a bully or a b***h to anyone. Not even its family.
>Lincoln is now a living joke and a butt monkey.
>Lola in some point turned into a complete b***h who would even kill her family just to win a contest. Fortunately they toned her down and is better.
>Lana is a living gross out joke. All her mechanic or plumbering aspects were deleted. You can teplace her with a dog or a farm animal and won't be any difference.
>Lily is now an evil baby for the sake of "comedy".
>Lynn Sr is now a crybaby.
Leni improved a lot, Lucy is almost the same, Lisa is still the same shitty character from the beginning, and Rita is more caring and less strict
[]Goku[]
Apologies for off topic but this pic says it all. The top vs the bottom are genuinely two different ideologies. Wtf happened
Goku has literal brain damage. Maybe it has been getting worse as he ages.
It's what happens when you never stop writing stories and keep killing major bad guys. Eventually you write yourself into corners and the only way out is through via killing character motivations from earlier.
Same reason WoW's plot has been crap, ESPECIALLY with Shadowlands. Can't say for DF tho.
>Can't say for DF tho
It's mostly comfy satam-villain kino, when it's not overly serious grimsad black dragon wankery, but they struck an okay balance this time.
>Eventually you write yourself into corners
Top and bottom are not the same author, actually. Super is not written by Toriyama, honestly, for all his faults he was consistent while he was in charge, he just never care much when other people used his characters.
Toriyama went on to say that he considers other stuff as alternate realities, like GT.
Goku was always a simple character but he used to have layers.
He used to be so interesting
Also I guess Spongebob would be up there for most flanderized
Nah I disagree. He wanted power to close the gap between him and Jiren but he was lost in the sauce in that moment. Immediately after Roshi reminds him and Goku chills out before going ultra instinct for real.
In the super hero recap they’re directly talking about Jiren and how he used his power. Ultimately he wasn’t much different shooting ki blasts and auras everywhere but he had a level of control that can’t be reached with traditional dbz training. The gas arc is all about this with Goku thinking about why he’s got so much trouble with using ultra instinct to its fullest because he is adopting another persons usage of it instead of making it his own.
I disagree with the SH recap part. It just rubs me the wrong way that Goku was one of the first people in the series to realize physical training can only get you so far unless you have complete mastery over your Ki and self control, to suddenly see him pretend like he never knew that or even practiced it in certain case
I don't even wanna talk about the "Fibber, that ain't trainin!" meditation meme
It’s not ki control though it’s using 100% of your ability at once. Something Goku and vegeta do not ever do and that’s what Vegeta’s meditation was focusing on and why Goku’s first reaction is to say that’s dumb.
They’re using to pushing their limits but Jiren’s power came from always being at his limit. Ssb is a culmination of ki control but the only time we see them at their limits is during intense emotional moments. Vegeta’s point in that part is that need for the in battle push is a weakness they need to overcome as Jiren did.
It’s just worded really fricking poorly.
2D from Gorillaz.
really? did they ruin him in the newer ones?
Peter Parker in comics and most adaptations
Pretty much, he especially isn't the same guy after OMD
someone post the pic where Peter reveals he almost let a little girl die if cancer so Doc Ock wouldn't find him in his mind
Is Peter himself Flanderized or do they focus way too much on shitting on him at all times?
Both. For more than 15 years he's been written as a parody of himself and even though that parody is a moron man child softie, he still doesn't deserve the shit he gets in the comics.
Gaz in Enter the Florpus
Not sure if it counts as Flanderization but it's like they read all the hints of where her character arc was going (appreciative of team, helping Ace grow) and just jumped straight past the resolution into everything's great now go team.
that sounds garbage, like the writers didn't want to do all the hard work of making a good character and just skipped to the end result but with no build up
>Then
Smart and level-headed voice of reason
>Now
Know-nothing know-it-all liberal douche that's also the new Meg
That's not what Flanderization means, though. Flanderization is an exaggeration of characteristics to the point that the original characters becomes a caricature of itself, or a concentrated Joke.
Brian didn't get Flanderized, people complained he was a self insert for Mcfarlane and a Know it all, so he was adjusted to reflect that.
Spider-Man in the comics since OMD
everything looks at traits of his like "leader" or "willingness to kill when he absolutely needs to" and either makes him a one-note, permanently stoic jesus figure or a violent psycho
It is hard to break down. War Dawn has him get shot and repaired, but The Movie is where they establish the Matrix of Leadership and dies in a way that is treated like a great tragedy. He's revered as a great leader that killing before causes a massive time paradox in Beast Wars, but that would likely happen if you kill anyone. Really it feels like Prime was where Optimus Prime became boring.
What does Flanderization mean?
Google it moron
thought it was a made up Cinemaphile thing
Ed goes from being a slow and goofy comic book nerd to a literal drooling moron obsessed with gravy and chickens
every single "dumb" character in cartoons does that. Ed, Billy, Cosmo from FOP, Patrick Star...
>Cosmo and Wanda used to be idiots together who loved each other
>Eventually it turned into Cosmo being a brain dead moron, who hates his nagging wife
Yeah that's the one low point of EEnE for me, the main trio got hit with flanderization. But at least the show was still good in the end
>the shy genius
>the extrovert leader
>the moron who wrecks everything
Is it flanderization if the characters already were extreme?
Yes, that's the entire point, it's taking their character that existed and exaggerating it to the point it's barely recognizable.
Like anon said before, Ed was a dumb kid but was capable of thought and interests then became a total moron obsessed with shit like Gravy and Chickens
Eddy was a schemer but usually as an ends to a means then later episodes would have him miss the forest for the trees where he ditched a plan because it was just a straigt forward business.
Edd was smart but wasn't a full on hypochondriac nerd
I'm scared I'm going to suffer from flanderization without even realizing it. How can I not?
It happens to all long-running characters. Your only escape from becoming a parody of yourself is death.
Eric Cartman
Cartman's weird. Like he definitely got hit when he killed Scott's parents and went on to be a weird little evil mastermind, but in the past 10 years or so they've toned him back down to being a douchey kid nobody takes seriously
How? He’s been idolizing Hitler since season 1 and only gotten smarter over time
plus there’s only a few episodes where he’s an evil mastermind
He went from a bratty kid to straight up a psychopath
How are we defining the "worst" flanderization? Most extreme, or the one leading to the greatest drop in quality? For the latter, I put forth the pink one.
most obnoxious
Cartman
Spongebob
Does TT robin count if we extend it to GO.?
No, even in the context of the show those are two different characters
Almost all of Archer's characters got Flanderized or strayed into weird territory, but Cheryl was the worst to the point it doesn't make sense for the characters to keep her around.
Yeah. If feels like one of the writers likes her and forces her into every episode.
Has any decently long-running cartoon ever managed to avoid flanderization? I'm genuinely struggling to think of even one.
I would argue the ones that avoided flanderization are ones that were already over the top parodies. Mr Burns was always an old evil billionaire who would kill someone to avoid spending money . Archer was always a bumbling super spy guided by sex and alcohol parodying James Bond. Maybe Tina from Bob's Burgers has been consistent but I don't watch enough of the show to keep know.
Tina isn’t consistent because they’ve almost entirely dropped the zombie and horse fetishes, and without those she’s pretty two dimensional from the start
Venture bros, I think.
Does American Dad count?
I mean they've been the exact same since Season 4 haven't they?
I think Haley has lost all faux political edge and has just become a loser.
When the humor is about their personalities, choices, and actions, then it's inevitable because sooner or late you run out of interesting premises and hit the wall where either a character changes or doubles down their worst traits and becomes consumed by it. Neither are fricking funny, so the answer is to caricature it out because the vast majority of comedy TV (not just cartoons) is about absurdity in the face of reality.
Dumb as hell that people think it's a problem when it's a symptom of the actual problem.
Aqua Teen Hunger Force, or a bunch of other non-serialized cartoons from AS.
Since there's no rhyme or reason to anything and because the characters are meant to stay one-note à la Looney Tunes/Hanna Barbera, the quality just never declines, since you're throwing said characters into fresh, innovative but completely random scenarios. It's like free jazz in a way, it opens up creative libertives but you make sure it doesn't end into a brown note mess.
If Meatwad stabs Frylock in the neck because he didn't buy him his favorite Britney Spears DVD or that Shake becomes a suicidal teenage trans hooker because he met James Woods from Videodrome, then it's perfectly fine, because that's the show was always about.
eh feels like Shake got a little Flanderized in the later seasons
Ayo
Depending on the character and episode
Seriously underrated answer right here. Khan and Bill specifically are complete annoyances with how flanderrized they get post season 10.
You can't really ever escape Flanderization. After a certain point you've wrung out everything you can do with your 3 dimensional character and either you acknowledge they have nothing left to offer and send them off, or you play up a specific quirk about them to try and keep them involved a bit longer
It's funny, I'm watching classic Simpsons the whole way through for the first time and seeing how different some characters are. Homer has episodes where he puts everything on the line for his family, Lisa actually acts like a little kid and is one of the better Christians, Flanders is honestly kind of based and the whole joke is he's too nice.
?si=mY0RIxyyUHBl2QCS
Maggie goes back and forth between being a normal baby and a smart and/or murderous baby.