I'm still confused about the key. Why was Adam given a key? That's such a serious advantage if it didn't go down the drain, which iirc wasn't the intention of Jigsaw but Amanda(?) carelessly throwing it in the tub.
>Feel free to clear this up.
They made it up in Saw 3. It didn't happen. You might as well be asking why things that are said to have happened to Rambo in his past in sequels aren't referenced in First Blood. Amanda didn't throw they key in the tub, Jigsaw put the key in the tub specifically so he could tell Adam he's as good as dead because he's a serial killer. He put a guy drenched in accelerant with no shoes in a room full of broken glass and gave him a tiny candle to try and find a code on 4 walls full of numbers while he watched. He made Amanda gut a guy alive and pull his insides out for a key. He wants to watch people struggle to live before he kills them, that's it. Nothing more.
Nothing you posted has much to do with what I'm talking about. Jigsaw's intention was for Adam to essentially have freedom of movement in the bathroom.
>Jigsaw's intention was for Adam to essentially have freedom of movement in the bathroom
Jigsaw's intention was for the key to be flushed down the drain so he could tell Adam "the key to your freedom is in that tub, game over" and leave him there to die.
9 months ago
Anonymous
The key going down the drain only happened because Adam woke up and thrashed around and pulled the plug for the drain. The point is why was he given a key? What is Adam's goal? He's not given clear instructions, only Gordon was. And Adam ends up survive past 6, so really he should have won the game right? But then Jigsaw I guess got a little pissed when Adam tried to shoot him with an empty gun, so he loses?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>The key going down the drain only happened because Adam woke up and thrashed around and pulled the plug for the drain.
Pulled the plug to the drain that was tied right to his foot and specifically had the drain cover removed so a key could pass through. >The point is why was he given a key?
I've told you twice already. The point is to taunt him. >What is Adam's goal?
His "goal" is to die, because he's a loose end. >Adam ends up survive past 6, so really he should have won the game right?
Jigsaw doesn't give a shit he's a serial killer.
Stop thinking about it in sequels.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>it's just to taunt him
For what? lmao none of this makes any sense. It's not some sort of law that all things floating in a tub have to go down the drain, and it's not like Adam was incapable of grabbing onto the glow-in-the-fricking-dark keychain at any point. The existence of the key makes no sense and if Adam were to have gotten it the entire game would have been flipped on it's side. We don't have to think about the sequels when considering this.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>For what?
Because he's a serial killer. >none of this makes any sense
No shit, serial killers are mentally unhinged. >It's not some sort of law that all things floating in a tub have to go down the drain
Yeah it's called gravity. >it's not like Adam was incapable of grabbing onto the glow-in-the-fricking-dark keychain
The glow in the dark keychain that was positioned right next to the drain plug tied to his foot specifically so Adam could watch it go down immediately as he woke up. >The existence of the key makes no sense and if Adam were to have gotten it the entire game would have been flipped on it's side
Idk how you can be this obtuse. The "games" don't have rules. Jigsaw doesn't give a frick. Adam was going to die. He isn't the Jigsaw from the sequels.
9 months ago
Anonymous
The "he's a crazy serial killer and doesn't give a frick" line doesn't work when the writers want us to think he's some sort of genius with a code. Anyway I don't think you're understanding anything I'm trying to say. >Why did he give Adam a key? It would change the entire dynamic of the ga- >DUUUUUUUDE, HE'S A CRAZY KILLER
9 months ago
Anonymous
>the writers want us to think he's some sort of genius with a code
The writers don't want you to think that you moron. The sequels do. >I don't think you're understanding anything I'm trying to say
I'm addressing what you're saying directly. >Why did he give Adam a key?
He didn't give Adam a key. He flushed his key down the drain of a tub. >It would change the entire dynamic of the ga-
It would if he had, but he didn't, because he flushed the key down the drain of a tub.
Idk what the frick is so hard for you to understand. He kills Adam. You keep saying shit like "We don't have to think about the sequels" and follow it up nothing but sequel shit.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Leigh Whannell wrote Saw 1, 2 and 3 you frick
9 months ago
Anonymous
Darren Lynn Bousman wrote "The Desperate" and Leigh Whannell was hired to adapt it into a Saw sequel.
9 months ago
Anonymous
What does that have to do with Saw II still being written by an original Saw writer, and further writing Jigsaw's character into the way you're saying the sequels are trying to do?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>What does that have to do with Saw II still being written by an original Saw writer
Saw 2 was not "written by an original writer" it was written by Darren Lynn Bousman, and adapted into a sequel by an original writer.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Whannell polished the script, with input from Wan,[6] in order to bring it into the Saw universe,[3] but kept the characters, traps and deaths from The Desperate script.[4] Bousman said, "But you could read the script for The Desperate and watch Saw II, and you would not be able to draw a comparison".
Heavily changed into a Saw film with Leigh Whannell making writing contributions. Your original post makes it seem as if you're blaming how we're supposed to characterize Jigsaw on unoriginal writers working on the sequels, when Leigh was involved right up to Saw III where they made up the fact the key wasn't supposed to go down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>dude they George Lucased their original movie because they were told to mash it up with another script to it's the deep lore now
9 months ago
Anonymous
Like I said before, take the sequels out of the equation. Adam was supposed to have a key. Why? For what purpose?
9 months ago
Anonymous
Adam was not supposed to have a key.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Then why is there a key with a light floating around the tub anon?
9 months ago
Anonymous
So he can watch it get immediately flushed down the drain when he wakes up from nearly drowning.
9 months ago
Anonymous
He never watched it go down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
He watched it do down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
How did he watch it go down the drain when he woke up on the opposite side of the tub facing up?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>How could he see his own legs and feet if his head was so far away from them
9 months ago
Anonymous
Legitimately don't know if you're moronic or trolling. Nice work either way I guess.
9 months ago
Anonymous
The key is at his feet. He looks at it and the camera cuts to it going down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
This is him looking directly down the drain at the key. He also immediately says "Dang it, that key went down the drain!" after he gets out of the tub, but that's in the extended uncut unreleased unrestricted jiggysaw edition that only I have seen.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>cuts immediately to it going down the drain
9 months ago
Anonymous
For a guy who is chained up and just saw a key go down the drain he's not too concerned about it, nor does he ever attempt to retrieve it.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>he's not too concerned about it
why would he be? it's pitch black, all he saw was a glowie thing go down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Did he see it? Did he know what it was? If he unshackled himself as intended, how would Gordon ever win this moronic game?
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Did he see it?
Yeah >Did he know what it was?
Not until Jigsaw told him >If he unshackled himself as intended, how would Gordon ever win this moronic game?
It wasn't intended. Only person that wins is Jigsaw. Zep is dead, Tapp is dead, Adam and Gordon are going to die.
9 months ago
Anonymous
If it wasn't intended explain to me the purpose of the key.
9 months ago
Anonymous
The purpose of the key is to go down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Why?
9 months ago
Anonymous
So that it can't be reached.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Why?
9 months ago
Anonymous
It can't be reached because you can't reach down a tub drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
You also wouldn't be able to reach a key that isn't down a drain if you didn't intentionally put one down the drain.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>would that it were so but alas
who gives a frick othello
9 months ago
Anonymous
Look, I'm just having fun trying to make sense of dumb plot holes. I hope you're having fun trying to make it seem like it makes perfect sense.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I don't have to try to make sense of something that already does.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I've given this a lot of thought in the context of a viewer in 2004 watching the first movie only which was written as a standalone film
I think Jigsaw put the obviously intended to be seen (glowing keylight) key in the tub expecting either scenarios as very possible. He knew it could go down the drain, or Adam might pin it to the tub while the water drains or block the drain and notice it. The game could play out with Adam chained or not. It was a wierd dice roll. The film could have been shot in 2 versions. Imagine Saw with Adam unchained
thats what I figured anyway
9 months ago
Anonymous
Gordon survives.
9 months ago
Anonymous
It was the original movie they had to compromise on since they literally didn’t have the budget to do what they wanted
9 months ago
Anonymous
They literally just took the script that was very already similar to Saw. Then rewrote major parts of it to incorporate and elaborate on Jigsaw instead of some random killer like the original script would have. Saw 2 isn’t just a different story with saw slapped on it.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>somehow Jigsaw isn't a serial killer
9 months ago
Anonymous
Dr Gordon said he technically never killed anyone in the first movie.
9 months ago
Anonymous
He killed multiple cops.
9 months ago
Anonymous
They committed suicide
9 months ago
Anonymous
The gun killed the Asian cop. Jigsaw's hand was nowhere near the trigger.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Killing via booby trap is still considered manslaughter.
9 months ago
Anonymous
He cut Danny Glover’s throat
9 months ago
Anonymous
it was self defense
9 months ago
Anonymous
>it wasn't written by the original writer >he just wrote the script >but it wasn't written by him
9 months ago
Anonymous
It's like how this post was written by me, but you adapted it to your liking.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>He didn't give Adam a key.
Then where did the key come from?
9 months ago
Anonymous
It was tied to a glow in the dark keychain, sitting next to the drain of a tub (without a drain cover) covered by a drain plug, tied to the foot of an unconscious man submerged in water in a pitch black room being held against his will with no prior knowledge of the fact.
9 months ago
Anonymous
If you're still trying to tell me the key was nothing but a taunt, it still isn't very taunting considering Adam had no knowledge of the key and the way Jigsaw talks about it suggests he thinks it's still in the tub and Adam just didn't see it in the confusion. He said the key to that chain is in the bathtub, he didn't say "the key to that chain went down the frickin drain ahahahahaha idiot"
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Adam had no knowledge of the key
He has a flashback to the key getting flushed when Jigsaw mentions it. >he didn't say "the key to that chain went down the frickin drain ahahahahaha idiot"
Did you even watch the movie? He might as well have.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>He has a flashback
That's an audience montage since we're shown scenes of Jigsaw in the hospital. Unless Adam was in the corner sneakily taking pictures or something.
9 months ago
Anonymous
NTA but the key thing always bothered me. Why bother telling him about the key at all? Adam never saw it so he never knew he lost it. Didn't the sequels retcon it, saying Amanda was the one who set up the main trap in 1? I can't remember the details of the sequels. Either way, the key doesn't make sense. >goes down the drain before the guy who it was supposed to benefit is even aware of its existence
>Jigsaw's intention was for Adam to essentially have freedom of movement in the bathroom.
Then why was he in such a hurry to leave after he tased Adam? Surely Jigsaw would realize something is wrong
Saw 2 wasn't written as a sequel and Saw 3 was written as a sequel to 2. Saw is a standalone movie and was written as such. Again, you might as well be asking why Rambo is a totally different character in every sequel to First Blood. He's a different character because somebody put their OC donut steel in his place.
9 months ago
Anonymous
>Saw 2 wasn't written as a sequel
The original version wasn't. It was heavily edited to become Saw 2. Any "Jigsaw lore" and shit tying it into the first Saw was added later.
>I'm still confused about the key. Why was Adam given a key? That's such a serious advantage if it didn't go down the drain, which iirc wasn't the intention of Jigsaw but Amanda(?) carelessly throwing it in the tub. Amanda didn't tie it well to Adam's leg, her end goal was for her to become John's apprentice, but she was too unstable. John wanted to let Adam go on behalf of Dr. Gordon, but crazy Amanda killed adam
promises he'll come back for you
Jiggy's wacko apprentice instead >hard to understand the love for this guy
He got his revenge for Adam, he was bitter, his wife divorced him. John psyoped him
Highly recommend this behind the scenes documentary for the first saw movie for any fans
Super interesting to see two Australian nobodies make a hugely profitable film and franchise on a barebones budget. Through a mixture of luck and grift and hard work
Also cool details. They literally only had one or two takes for almost every shot in the film. So it’s impressively good acting from Cary Elwes and Leigh Whannell, Leigh isn’t even a legit actor like Cary and I thought his performance was pretty good. Accent was good too
>Do as Jiggy instructs >cut your foot off as punishment >die from blood loss
What's the point of your trap if the person just dies from injuries immediately afterwards? Jiggy spent all that time at engineering school he doesn't know about blood loss?
From what I recall the original point of the game is that Adam would be able to unlock himself and walk around the room while Gordon remained locked up
The point being that the game is just for Adam to stay alive, while Gordon is supposed to kill him,. Adam being free to walk around gives him a better chance
if the series stopped at Saw 2 and Jigsaw died in a max security hospice 2 weeks later it would probably be just as fondly remembered. I recall being very entertained when it was new
The first one is a legitimately good flick. Sequels are just pure sleazekino fun. You watch them for the traps and to root for based Jiggy and Hoffman.
In Saw 3 Jigsaw tells Amanda there’s a letter in an envelope with her name on it, she reads it but we don’t get to see what it says, Amanda then freaks out even more and kills Lynn against Johns wishes
We later find out that Hoffman actually switched out this letter with one of his own. Blackmailing Amanda. Telling her to kill Lynn or he would reveal to John she was involved in that drug addict raid in the clinic that led to his wife’s miscarriage.
We never found out what the original letter said but in the link. Theres the original one. Actually hand written by Tobin Bell. Always wondered what it said. But now I’m struggling to read it
>My dear Amanda - >the enclosed is for you… to ease the waves in the sea you must navigate >talk with Anthony McDonald at the Branch. He will take care of all
>Do not look back, only ahead >you have arrived at the door - WALK THROUGH. >don’t look back. You are strong and well >I know you think you have nothing to teach. We teach what we need to learn…. That is enough
>may I ALWAYS breathe life to your soul… as you have done to mine
>with love and hope. I believe in you >John
Damn that’s super nice. I like how Jigsaw is low-key a nice guy who wants people to be good and better. He really saw the best in Amanda. If she’d read this she would’ve calmed down
Sounds like he was leaving her all his estate with that Anthony McDonald at the Branch stuff but considering he was a known felon I’m not sure how that would work logistically. Maybe he had secret funds and properties under different names he transferred to before he was revealed publicly in Saw 2. He did plan being revealed in Saw 2 after all
>considering he was a known felon I’m not sure how that would work logistically
laws vary from state to state, but generally the only assets you forfeit are those gained through illicit activities and anything that has to be liquidated to settle the outstanding affairs of your estate. So if, for example, John left her a house that he purchased before he became a killer, that would be legal (unless it came out that she was his apprentice and was complicit in several murders).
Whenever I hear people say Saw movies are all shit torture porn or that only the first is good and the rest suck. It’s just them falling victim to the same snobbery you hear from people and critics about horror movies in general.
Saw 1 was good. Saw 2 was great. Saw 3 was a heavily flawed but appropriate end to the trilogy
The rest aren’t amazing but they definitely have interesting plots even as it becomes more reliant on the spectacle of gore. Also considering how much they clearly made up on the fly it fits together ridiculously well almost all the time.
My only real critique is that I wish we’d seen more main characters win their games just because it would be more interesting to think they have a chance. Like that life insurance guy. Or Jeff. Or have Donnie Wahlberg survive after all that shit he went through when he was a prisoner with a broken leg for like 8 months
Instead literally only Gordon managed to win his game. Hoffman at a stretch but he literally escaped a death trap he wasn’t meant to. Same with strahm ironically
Was anyone else confused first time around because the actors for Hoffman and strahm look so similar? Maybe that was the point since they were like opposites
It’s weird to me that Hoffman made games to seemingly just kill people sometimes. Then sometimes made them winnable like the black woman and the fat man. Or Detective Rigg, or strahm even. If he’d gotten in that coffin he’d have lived right?
I’ll add I enjoy the soap opera esque elements of Saw stories as it becomes increasingly consulted and brings more and more flashbacks to explain things and shove in more jigsaw scenes
He becomes more and more impossibly genius and insanely predictive as we see more flashbacks.
I think he’s said to have had degrees in engineering, architecture and psychology. Plus he has a lot of knowledge about eastern cultures so he probably travelled a lot when he was younger.
Also pretty cool how unlike most horror franchises they never took the easy way out. Just rebooted the story with a younger actor playing Jigsaw and now his cancer is cured. No, they really committed to this shit. And all the apprentices are very different. Amanda is a true believer in John but flawed and makes unwinnable traps because she’s afraid another survivor will replace her as his number 1. Hoffman was a straight up psycho who realised he enjoyed killing and was blackmailed by jigsaw into working for him after jigsaw figured out he killed his sisters murderer and framed it as a jigsaw killing
I wasn’t a huge fan of spiral but it was cool seeing how johns influence is that widespread it inspired a copy cat with totally different motives
Killing Jigsaw was the stupidest move ever and the fact that a solid 15% of the successive movies are all flashbacks with Tobin kind of indicates they realized how much they fricked up.
It's like killing Jason Voorhees off - obviously you're going to have to bring him back for the inevitable sequels, only now you have to shoehorn him coming back.
I’m rooting for an AI jigsaw to take over a futuristic building after they attempt to replicate his brain patterns to study crime or something
Also anyone else laugh at this soul patch Jigsaw had in the first movie that they had to keep replicating if they flashed back to around it? Guessing Tobin Bell just happened to have it and they had no idea they’d make a bunch of sequels so they didn’t care if this character who only appeared for like 2 minutes had funny facial hair
The original script for Saw 3 was that after the surgeon alleviated the pressure on his brain from the tumour. Jigsaw would actually come to his senses and try to stop the game. With his cancerous brain tumour being the cause of his insanity. But by then it would be too late. Jeff would kill him. Which killed his wife. Amanda died etc
Nobody would be around to know he changed his mind. Pretty comically tragic ending if they went that way
Why did Cary insist that he had to say the n word in the movie? It wasn't anywhere in the script.
I think it's a shame they didn't pay him his fricking money they owed him despite making over a hundred million dollars off a million dollar budget
My fave scene from the movie
I'm still confused about the key. Why was Adam given a key? That's such a serious advantage if it didn't go down the drain, which iirc wasn't the intention of Jigsaw but Amanda(?) carelessly throwing it in the tub.
Amanda didn't throw the key in the tub.
as far as I can remember she threw it onto his chest and Jigsaw told her to tie it around his ankle. Feel free to clear this up.
>Feel free to clear this up.
They made it up in Saw 3. It didn't happen. You might as well be asking why things that are said to have happened to Rambo in his past in sequels aren't referenced in First Blood. Amanda didn't throw they key in the tub, Jigsaw put the key in the tub specifically so he could tell Adam he's as good as dead because he's a serial killer. He put a guy drenched in accelerant with no shoes in a room full of broken glass and gave him a tiny candle to try and find a code on 4 walls full of numbers while he watched. He made Amanda gut a guy alive and pull his insides out for a key. He wants to watch people struggle to live before he kills them, that's it. Nothing more.
Nothing you posted has much to do with what I'm talking about. Jigsaw's intention was for Adam to essentially have freedom of movement in the bathroom.
>Jigsaw's intention was for Adam to essentially have freedom of movement in the bathroom
Jigsaw's intention was for the key to be flushed down the drain so he could tell Adam "the key to your freedom is in that tub, game over" and leave him there to die.
The key going down the drain only happened because Adam woke up and thrashed around and pulled the plug for the drain. The point is why was he given a key? What is Adam's goal? He's not given clear instructions, only Gordon was. And Adam ends up survive past 6, so really he should have won the game right? But then Jigsaw I guess got a little pissed when Adam tried to shoot him with an empty gun, so he loses?
>The key going down the drain only happened because Adam woke up and thrashed around and pulled the plug for the drain.
Pulled the plug to the drain that was tied right to his foot and specifically had the drain cover removed so a key could pass through.
>The point is why was he given a key?
I've told you twice already. The point is to taunt him.
>What is Adam's goal?
His "goal" is to die, because he's a loose end.
>Adam ends up survive past 6, so really he should have won the game right?
Jigsaw doesn't give a shit he's a serial killer.
Stop thinking about it in sequels.
>it's just to taunt him
For what? lmao none of this makes any sense. It's not some sort of law that all things floating in a tub have to go down the drain, and it's not like Adam was incapable of grabbing onto the glow-in-the-fricking-dark keychain at any point. The existence of the key makes no sense and if Adam were to have gotten it the entire game would have been flipped on it's side. We don't have to think about the sequels when considering this.
>For what?
Because he's a serial killer.
>none of this makes any sense
No shit, serial killers are mentally unhinged.
>It's not some sort of law that all things floating in a tub have to go down the drain
Yeah it's called gravity.
>it's not like Adam was incapable of grabbing onto the glow-in-the-fricking-dark keychain
The glow in the dark keychain that was positioned right next to the drain plug tied to his foot specifically so Adam could watch it go down immediately as he woke up.
>The existence of the key makes no sense and if Adam were to have gotten it the entire game would have been flipped on it's side
Idk how you can be this obtuse. The "games" don't have rules. Jigsaw doesn't give a frick. Adam was going to die. He isn't the Jigsaw from the sequels.
The "he's a crazy serial killer and doesn't give a frick" line doesn't work when the writers want us to think he's some sort of genius with a code. Anyway I don't think you're understanding anything I'm trying to say.
>Why did he give Adam a key? It would change the entire dynamic of the ga-
>DUUUUUUUDE, HE'S A CRAZY KILLER
>the writers want us to think he's some sort of genius with a code
The writers don't want you to think that you moron. The sequels do.
>I don't think you're understanding anything I'm trying to say
I'm addressing what you're saying directly.
>Why did he give Adam a key?
He didn't give Adam a key. He flushed his key down the drain of a tub.
>It would change the entire dynamic of the ga-
It would if he had, but he didn't, because he flushed the key down the drain of a tub.
Idk what the frick is so hard for you to understand. He kills Adam. You keep saying shit like "We don't have to think about the sequels" and follow it up nothing but sequel shit.
Leigh Whannell wrote Saw 1, 2 and 3 you frick
Darren Lynn Bousman wrote "The Desperate" and Leigh Whannell was hired to adapt it into a Saw sequel.
What does that have to do with Saw II still being written by an original Saw writer, and further writing Jigsaw's character into the way you're saying the sequels are trying to do?
>What does that have to do with Saw II still being written by an original Saw writer
Saw 2 was not "written by an original writer" it was written by Darren Lynn Bousman, and adapted into a sequel by an original writer.
>Whannell polished the script, with input from Wan,[6] in order to bring it into the Saw universe,[3] but kept the characters, traps and deaths from The Desperate script.[4] Bousman said, "But you could read the script for The Desperate and watch Saw II, and you would not be able to draw a comparison".
Heavily changed into a Saw film with Leigh Whannell making writing contributions. Your original post makes it seem as if you're blaming how we're supposed to characterize Jigsaw on unoriginal writers working on the sequels, when Leigh was involved right up to Saw III where they made up the fact the key wasn't supposed to go down the drain.
>dude they George Lucased their original movie because they were told to mash it up with another script to it's the deep lore now
Like I said before, take the sequels out of the equation. Adam was supposed to have a key. Why? For what purpose?
Adam was not supposed to have a key.
Then why is there a key with a light floating around the tub anon?
So he can watch it get immediately flushed down the drain when he wakes up from nearly drowning.
He never watched it go down the drain.
He watched it do down the drain.
How did he watch it go down the drain when he woke up on the opposite side of the tub facing up?
>How could he see his own legs and feet if his head was so far away from them
Legitimately don't know if you're moronic or trolling. Nice work either way I guess.
The key is at his feet. He looks at it and the camera cuts to it going down the drain.
This is him looking directly down the drain at the key. He also immediately says "Dang it, that key went down the drain!" after he gets out of the tub, but that's in the extended uncut unreleased unrestricted jiggysaw edition that only I have seen.
>cuts immediately to it going down the drain
For a guy who is chained up and just saw a key go down the drain he's not too concerned about it, nor does he ever attempt to retrieve it.
>he's not too concerned about it
why would he be? it's pitch black, all he saw was a glowie thing go down the drain.
Did he see it? Did he know what it was? If he unshackled himself as intended, how would Gordon ever win this moronic game?
>Did he see it?
Yeah
>Did he know what it was?
Not until Jigsaw told him
>If he unshackled himself as intended, how would Gordon ever win this moronic game?
It wasn't intended. Only person that wins is Jigsaw. Zep is dead, Tapp is dead, Adam and Gordon are going to die.
If it wasn't intended explain to me the purpose of the key.
The purpose of the key is to go down the drain.
Why?
So that it can't be reached.
Why?
It can't be reached because you can't reach down a tub drain.
You also wouldn't be able to reach a key that isn't down a drain if you didn't intentionally put one down the drain.
>would that it were so but alas
who gives a frick othello
Look, I'm just having fun trying to make sense of dumb plot holes. I hope you're having fun trying to make it seem like it makes perfect sense.
I don't have to try to make sense of something that already does.
I've given this a lot of thought in the context of a viewer in 2004 watching the first movie only which was written as a standalone film
I think Jigsaw put the obviously intended to be seen (glowing keylight) key in the tub expecting either scenarios as very possible. He knew it could go down the drain, or Adam might pin it to the tub while the water drains or block the drain and notice it. The game could play out with Adam chained or not. It was a wierd dice roll. The film could have been shot in 2 versions. Imagine Saw with Adam unchained
thats what I figured anyway
Gordon survives.
It was the original movie they had to compromise on since they literally didn’t have the budget to do what they wanted
They literally just took the script that was very already similar to Saw. Then rewrote major parts of it to incorporate and elaborate on Jigsaw instead of some random killer like the original script would have. Saw 2 isn’t just a different story with saw slapped on it.
>somehow Jigsaw isn't a serial killer
Dr Gordon said he technically never killed anyone in the first movie.
He killed multiple cops.
They committed suicide
The gun killed the Asian cop. Jigsaw's hand was nowhere near the trigger.
Killing via booby trap is still considered manslaughter.
He cut Danny Glover’s throat
it was self defense
>it wasn't written by the original writer
>he just wrote the script
>but it wasn't written by him
It's like how this post was written by me, but you adapted it to your liking.
>He didn't give Adam a key.
Then where did the key come from?
It was tied to a glow in the dark keychain, sitting next to the drain of a tub (without a drain cover) covered by a drain plug, tied to the foot of an unconscious man submerged in water in a pitch black room being held against his will with no prior knowledge of the fact.
If you're still trying to tell me the key was nothing but a taunt, it still isn't very taunting considering Adam had no knowledge of the key and the way Jigsaw talks about it suggests he thinks it's still in the tub and Adam just didn't see it in the confusion. He said the key to that chain is in the bathtub, he didn't say "the key to that chain went down the frickin drain ahahahahaha idiot"
>Adam had no knowledge of the key
He has a flashback to the key getting flushed when Jigsaw mentions it.
>he didn't say "the key to that chain went down the frickin drain ahahahahaha idiot"
Did you even watch the movie? He might as well have.
>He has a flashback
That's an audience montage since we're shown scenes of Jigsaw in the hospital. Unless Adam was in the corner sneakily taking pictures or something.
NTA but the key thing always bothered me. Why bother telling him about the key at all? Adam never saw it so he never knew he lost it. Didn't the sequels retcon it, saying Amanda was the one who set up the main trap in 1? I can't remember the details of the sequels. Either way, the key doesn't make sense.
>goes down the drain before the guy who it was supposed to benefit is even aware of its existence
moron
Why didn't Adam just chop his leg off as well?
>Jigsaw's intention was for Adam to essentially have freedom of movement in the bathroom.
Then why was he in such a hurry to leave after he tased Adam? Surely Jigsaw would realize something is wrong
Adam broke his saw in a fit of rage.
>They made it up in Saw 3. It didn't happen
Anyone arguing about "Saw lore" or whatever is going to take the sequels into account, especially 2 and 3.
Saw 2 wasn't written as a sequel and Saw 3 was written as a sequel to 2. Saw is a standalone movie and was written as such. Again, you might as well be asking why Rambo is a totally different character in every sequel to First Blood. He's a different character because somebody put their OC donut steel in his place.
>Saw 2 wasn't written as a sequel
The original version wasn't. It was heavily edited to become Saw 2. Any "Jigsaw lore" and shit tying it into the first Saw was added later.
No because that would be illegal and jigsaw makes a point of being morally and legally in the clear
>I'm still confused about the key. Why was Adam given a key? That's such a serious advantage if it didn't go down the drain, which iirc wasn't the intention of Jigsaw but Amanda(?) carelessly throwing it in the tub.
Amanda didn't tie it well to Adam's leg, her end goal was for her to become John's apprentice, but she was too unstable. John wanted to let Adam go on behalf of Dr. Gordon, but crazy Amanda killed adam
>Gordon promises he'll come back for you
>becomes Jiggy's wacko apprentice instead
hard to understand the love for this guy
promises he'll come back for you
Jiggy's wacko apprentice instead
>hard to understand the love for this guy
He got his revenge for Adam, he was bitter, his wife divorced him. John psyoped him
First saw movie is actually a good and original movie. Its reputation got destroyed by the sequels and the gore.
>Its reputation
Who cares what some homosexuals think? I've watched up to 5 and they were all fun flicks.
Highly recommend this behind the scenes documentary for the first saw movie for any fans
Super interesting to see two Australian nobodies make a hugely profitable film and franchise on a barebones budget. Through a mixture of luck and grift and hard work
Also cool details. They literally only had one or two takes for almost every shot in the film. So it’s impressively good acting from Cary Elwes and Leigh Whannell, Leigh isn’t even a legit actor like Cary and I thought his performance was pretty good. Accent was good too
>the key to that chain was in the bathtub
Am I the only one who thought this was meant to be jigsaw telling Adam his way to get out?
>key went down plug hole
>except this bathroom is clearly not connected to the mains
Adam could just saw the bathtub pipe and find the key?
>Do as Jiggy instructs
>cut your foot off as punishment
>die from blood loss
What's the point of your trap if the person just dies from injuries immediately afterwards? Jiggy spent all that time at engineering school he doesn't know about blood loss?
From what I recall the original point of the game is that Adam would be able to unlock himself and walk around the room while Gordon remained locked up
The point being that the game is just for Adam to stay alive, while Gordon is supposed to kill him,. Adam being free to walk around gives him a better chance
>two hacksaws in the bag
just in case gordon's got dull halfway through his foot, assuming Adam gives him the saws lmao
Maybe the real key is the friends we made along the way.
question is why didnt Adam break the bathtub and drainpipe and pull the key out
Why was the first movie good and the rest unwatchable?
Because you have shit taste.
if the series stopped at Saw 2 and Jigsaw died in a max security hospice 2 weeks later it would probably be just as fondly remembered. I recall being very entertained when it was new
The first one is a legitimately good flick. Sequels are just pure sleazekino fun. You watch them for the traps and to root for based Jiggy and Hoffman.
This is the most generic homosexual opinion ever. Only people who haven’t even seen the movies keep repeating it
Saw 2 is better than saw 1
What if Adam wasn't meant to get out of the tub at all???
>the key to that chain is your butthole
Why didn't he just watch a lock picking tutorial on youtube? Then he could use the broken parts of the saw to pick the lock and escape
>This is the Lockpicking Lawyer and today I'm going to be showing you why John Kramer is technically innocent of the crimes he's accused of
Just found this on Twitter
https://twitter.com/sawspace/status/1576618202905604098
In Saw 3 Jigsaw tells Amanda there’s a letter in an envelope with her name on it, she reads it but we don’t get to see what it says, Amanda then freaks out even more and kills Lynn against Johns wishes
We later find out that Hoffman actually switched out this letter with one of his own. Blackmailing Amanda. Telling her to kill Lynn or he would reveal to John she was involved in that drug addict raid in the clinic that led to his wife’s miscarriage.
We never found out what the original letter said but in the link. Theres the original one. Actually hand written by Tobin Bell. Always wondered what it said. But now I’m struggling to read it
Can anyone translate this cursive?
Here’s the replaced one we actually see in the movies
Here’s what I can read
>My dear Amanda -
>the enclosed is for you… to ease the waves in the sea you must navigate
>talk with Anthony McDonald at the Branch. He will take care of all
>Do not look back, only ahead
>you have arrived at the door - WALK THROUGH.
>don’t look back. You are strong and well
>I know you think you have nothing to teach. We teach what we need to learn…. That is enough
>may I ALWAYS breathe life to your soul… as you have done to mine
>with love and hope. I believe in you
>John
Damn that’s super nice. I like how Jigsaw is low-key a nice guy who wants people to be good and better. He really saw the best in Amanda. If she’d read this she would’ve calmed down
Sounds like he was leaving her all his estate with that Anthony McDonald at the Branch stuff but considering he was a known felon I’m not sure how that would work logistically. Maybe he had secret funds and properties under different names he transferred to before he was revealed publicly in Saw 2. He did plan being revealed in Saw 2 after all
>considering he was a known felon I’m not sure how that would work logistically
laws vary from state to state, but generally the only assets you forfeit are those gained through illicit activities and anything that has to be liquidated to settle the outstanding affairs of your estate. So if, for example, John left her a house that he purchased before he became a killer, that would be legal (unless it came out that she was his apprentice and was complicit in several murders).
what illicit activites?
The only thing I like about Saw is the mid 2000s aesthetics.
Whenever I hear people say Saw movies are all shit torture porn or that only the first is good and the rest suck. It’s just them falling victim to the same snobbery you hear from people and critics about horror movies in general.
Saw 1 was good. Saw 2 was great. Saw 3 was a heavily flawed but appropriate end to the trilogy
The rest aren’t amazing but they definitely have interesting plots even as it becomes more reliant on the spectacle of gore. Also considering how much they clearly made up on the fly it fits together ridiculously well almost all the time.
My only real critique is that I wish we’d seen more main characters win their games just because it would be more interesting to think they have a chance. Like that life insurance guy. Or Jeff. Or have Donnie Wahlberg survive after all that shit he went through when he was a prisoner with a broken leg for like 8 months
Instead literally only Gordon managed to win his game. Hoffman at a stretch but he literally escaped a death trap he wasn’t meant to. Same with strahm ironically
Was anyone else confused first time around because the actors for Hoffman and strahm look so similar? Maybe that was the point since they were like opposites
It’s weird to me that Hoffman made games to seemingly just kill people sometimes. Then sometimes made them winnable like the black woman and the fat man. Or Detective Rigg, or strahm even. If he’d gotten in that coffin he’d have lived right?
>am I the only one who thought Strahm and Hoffman were the same guy
I am ashamed to admit this filtered me
I’ll add I enjoy the soap opera esque elements of Saw stories as it becomes increasingly consulted and brings more and more flashbacks to explain things and shove in more jigsaw scenes
He becomes more and more impossibly genius and insanely predictive as we see more flashbacks.
I think he’s said to have had degrees in engineering, architecture and psychology. Plus he has a lot of knowledge about eastern cultures so he probably travelled a lot when he was younger.
Also pretty cool how unlike most horror franchises they never took the easy way out. Just rebooted the story with a younger actor playing Jigsaw and now his cancer is cured. No, they really committed to this shit. And all the apprentices are very different. Amanda is a true believer in John but flawed and makes unwinnable traps because she’s afraid another survivor will replace her as his number 1. Hoffman was a straight up psycho who realised he enjoyed killing and was blackmailed by jigsaw into working for him after jigsaw figured out he killed his sisters murderer and framed it as a jigsaw killing
I wasn’t a huge fan of spiral but it was cool seeing how johns influence is that widespread it inspired a copy cat with totally different motives
Killing Jigsaw was the stupidest move ever and the fact that a solid 15% of the successive movies are all flashbacks with Tobin kind of indicates they realized how much they fricked up.
It's like killing Jason Voorhees off - obviously you're going to have to bring him back for the inevitable sequels, only now you have to shoehorn him coming back.
What was the alternative though?
He was established as being almost dead from incurable cancer in the first movie. This progresses in the second
Was he just meant to be dying of cancer for 8 movies? Or magically get cured?
I never want them to stop making Saw movies. Never ever
It's really hard to hate on them. 1 is just a good movie, the rest become increasing ridiculous that it's le FUN
I’m rooting for an AI jigsaw to take over a futuristic building after they attempt to replicate his brain patterns to study crime or something
Also anyone else laugh at this soul patch Jigsaw had in the first movie that they had to keep replicating if they flashed back to around it? Guessing Tobin Bell just happened to have it and they had no idea they’d make a bunch of sequels so they didn’t care if this character who only appeared for like 2 minutes had funny facial hair
Saw X is going to be straight up, full on, pure unadulterated kino
The original script for Saw 3 was that after the surgeon alleviated the pressure on his brain from the tumour. Jigsaw would actually come to his senses and try to stop the game. With his cancerous brain tumour being the cause of his insanity. But by then it would be too late. Jeff would kill him. Which killed his wife. Amanda died etc
Nobody would be around to know he changed his mind. Pretty comically tragic ending if they went that way
despite its flaws Saw 3's shotgun collar surgery scenes are unalloyed kino
Has anyone else here read the original script for IV?