Literally everything. Just concept to execution. Hated the pilot but the show is so bad, that it makes the pilot look better by comparison.
Not a christogay either, the more hell based cartoons the better, Viv just fricking sucks as a creator and I hope she never makes a single cartoon ever again. You all have shit taste.
Helluva could be but Hazbin has stronger writing and Viv had to be tardwrangled to her chargrin. Thankfully not jerking off how coolio anyone is and justifying their scummy behavior with the expectation we cry for them (Blitzo in every single episode)
>release Angel's soul from the contract?
See if this show had some THOUGHT put into it, what if being a resident at the hotel required you to sign a new contract. Because she's the daughter of Lucifer she has authority over all, and this is just how hell system works.
If at any point Val started to make it impossible for AD to abide by his new contract, there would be punishments for Val, which would make the whole poison thing and consent thing matter more.
You could totally still use the same 8 episodes to add that detail into everything but it doesn't. It's written off the top of their head and it's poorly put together.
Viv absolutely just wants AD to be beaten and abused for her own entertainment without any drive to the plot moving forward.
IS that though how it happened? cause we've seen there is no way of getting into heaven. Isn't it likely they sold their souls WHILE in hell in order to stay together?
This show doesn't have clear rules or limitations. I'm just making a suggestion because it would give Charlie some AUTHORITY as the daughter of the TOP GUY.
That's fair, but I still say that charlie has to be given some level of authority over the hell lords. She at any point can say NO and be the leader of hell that she's supposed to be, but she's fairly under developed because of that. Alastor doesn't believe demons can change but then he doesn't make clear why he's really apart of this whole scheme.
Sure Charlie can be stupid and naively happy that Alastor is "helping" but we can tell that it's not really that deep. All of this is surface level "Charlistor" shipping fodder and a plot happens to exist underneath it that we have to piece together ourselves.
Viv's ENTIRE body of work is reliant on fanart and fandom to make these characters more interesting and better than they actually are. Any time someone says "how would you fix it." I don't want to bother any more, because Viv should be able to do that on her own... and if she does, she's insanely shallow.
If I was to FIX this show, I'd rather make my own damn show, even if it never got the same sort of stupid attention Viv's work did, that'd be a blessing because people who love her work are the worst people out there.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>she's insanely shallow.
Well said, and so is her show. Dumb Latina's don't produce any kind of quality artwork or thoughts.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Dumb Latina's
You can drop the racism just to say she's a spoiled child. A toddler who still produces macaroni noodle art and gets it hung up at the MOMA.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You can drop the racism
I'm racist though, and what I'm saying is 100% right.
The show is vapid trash designed by a genetically vapid women.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Viv's ENTIRE body of work is reliant on fanart and fandom to make these characters more interesting and better than they actually are
I feel like this is a bad omen towards a certain model of showmaking thats slowly been pioneered in the last 9-10 years
3 months ago
Anonymous
Viv's characters would make AMAZING NFTs but she knows her audience too well and she works with artists who would out her in a second for that.
They're 100% all vibes, no soul.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Not even that, I mean the whole "Ascended fanon" trope is becoming increasingly popular and we're reaching the point where with a show like Hazbin? It could influence entire character personalities and story plans. Using fan theories as major plot points.
>what if being a resident at the hotel required you to sign a new contract
Charlie's entire morality system is based on choices. They already covered that in why Alastor can't just force new residents to stay in the hotel.
Being able to instantly override a contract would require the entire hierarchy to be rewritten. Especially if someone could just sell their soul, get the contract canceled, then leave the hotel since Charlie wouldn't force someone to change against their will.
if it was my show the most in-character thing i can think of is some kind of 'if i get murdered your ass dies with me' soul-brand clause that wouldn't make sense for the average demon to have, but would for a demon lord with the resources to be safe from the extermination and the power to make such a connection.
i'd imagine every other attempted porn producer would love to get him out of the way, but not at the expense of losing all the talent attached to him that they'd rather recruit.
oo, see that's pretty good. ANY sort of explanation as to why Val can keep getting away with his behavior is important to the story. As it stands, it's just they like that Val is an abusive butthole and that's the vibe.
Same issue with Alestor. He's just a guy who can grow big and eat people.You don't think that there hasn't been someone in hell, like Sir P, who's been working his ass off and respawing over and over again with new ways to try and finally be the one to kill him?
Alestor eats people, what if he eats someone with a bomb inside of him? Does it really not effect him? You can't just say his power level is over 9000 and call it a day.
Angel Dust thinks Charlie can't handle Valentino (which I inferred from him asking Val not to hurt her) so he probably thinks if he tells her about it she'll get hurt trying to do something. What he doesn't know if that Charlie could probably immolate him until he cancels the contract.
Angel Dust thinks Charlie can't handle Valentino (which I inferred from him asking Val not to hurt her) so he probably thinks if he tells her about it she'll get hurt trying to do something. What he doesn't know if that Charlie could probably immolate him until he cancels the contract.
b) she'd have to bust up Val and take his soul in order to compel him to release AD
c) there's no point taking down one Overlord. They are a naturally occurring institution. If there are sinners fricking each other over then there are going to be apex sinners fricking the masses and they also naturally establish an uncomfortable order. Like it or lump it overlords and their 'territories' establish 'safe' zones where denizens can live semi-normally. You could kill them all and reestablish demonic/hellborn hierarchies but Charlie doesn't have the heart to dominate others and Luci doesn't have the motivation to bother with sinners instead leaving them to their own devices.
It will be both. After Nifty kills him, which will be the abrupt end of a musical number, he's going to respawn in Hell. The extermination will still be at the faster pace, so he will have ~4 months to meet Heaven's (still unknown) requirements for redemption.
It will be both. After Nifty kills him, which will be the abrupt end of a musical number, he's going to respawn in Hell. The extermination will still be at the faster pace, so he will have ~4 months to meet Heaven's (still unknown) requirements for redemption.
That’s a funny way of spelling round table.
You know, it’s weird how they talk about the exorcist wearing the masks, but they completely ignore that Adam is literally wearing one himself.
>Yeah. It mogs every single tranime
Does anyone actually believe this?
Anime is meant for children and somehow has higher quality and is less juvenile that this show.
The best part of Hazbin are the songs and even those are mediocre at best and lyrics are bad.
The writing, pacing, characters, plot, basically everything is much worse than you're average generic anime.
>pilot is successful >show gets picked up by A24 >it's announced the entire cast is getting dumped in favor of replacing them with broadway talent >people are upset >show is released >it is widely agreed that the singing voices performed by the professional broadway stars is the best part and they are carrying the show
So now that the dust has settled, was it a good decision after all?
It was an excellent decision to get some real talent for the voice actors. But >it is widely agreed that the singing voices performed by the professional broadway stars is the best part and they are carrying the show
Says who? All I've seen is literately everyone sayin the singing is the main thing holding the show back
I dislike how most of the desing are so humanized, in helluva they go a bit more wild with characters, but in here most main characters are colored humans, even in the last espisode when they go to heaven the seraphins morph from cool desings to normal colored people
I'm trying to watch Helluva Boss in the interim and holy shit this show is such an absolute fricking slog. The songs are terrible, the incidental music never fits, half of the episodes have obvious choppy moments and the plots operate entirely around tangent into tangent after tangent.
I would have liked it more if the show stuck to a firm 11 minute runtime and been like the Evil Con Carne to Hazbin's Grim Adventures. Instead it's actually longer at times than Charlie's show, and scenes DRAG to an almost glacial pace. Moxxie giving pretentious monologues and Stolas drawing out every third syllable gets old insanely fast.
Please tell me Season 2 gets better because I can barely finish Season 1.
I don't hate it, I just dislike how everything goes on way longer than it needs to. I bet she could have truncated all of S1 in half and nothing of value would be lost.
>Season 2 gets better
why would you think Season 2 would be better?
Sure there will be moments that you go "this was neat" but the WHOLE existence of this show is a waste of time and money. The work that goes into producing this show could've been given to a million other projects that don't have "my daughter's birthday present" tax write off written all over them.
I'm just so confused what the show is trying to accomplish right now. >Episode 6 starts with a callback to the previous episodes but is its own contained plot >Episode 7 has this homosexual along with Verosika but they're just kind of there? >Btw Episode 8 is the end of the season even though 7's title is literally FINALE
I'm also so conflicted why they bother to contextualize the other rings of Hell, but only as asides. Lust vs. Wrath just exist, they're interchangeable otherwise.
You weren’t even here for the shitshow when episode 8 got tied up in legal mumbo jumbo for so long they had to skip it and go straight to releasing season 2 without it. Leaving all the viewers to wonder if anything important enough happened in it that would recontextualize any season 2 episodes, with the creators themselves insisting that episode 8 was so non consequential that it didn’t make any difference that they’d skipped it and everything was fine.
I mean I'm watching ep 8 right now and holy shit this sucks. Feels like I'm being held at gunpoint to watch one of her old music videos.
Also weird to have an episode centered around Loona but still keep her as passive and reactive as in the rest of the season.
Queen Bee is a garbage design and episode. You think it's gonna be Loona episode (don't particularly like her either) but it's more gary stu Blitz.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>it's more gary stu Blitz.
I hate how many "daddy's just a goof" episodes both these series have now. I think Blitz deserves the pain he gets. He keeps bullying Moxxie.
That boy's a b***h but shit, there is No redeemable qualities in Blitz that shows he deserves redemption.
Helluva Boss stopped being good years ago. Season 2 has NOTHING redeeming about it.
Hazbin S1 is overall better, but I still have issues with it here and there. The pacing is awful and feels like 3 seasons of material compressed poorly into 6 eps. Also I want the Pilot cast. They were good, but Viv wanted Broadway people for clout and ambition, not technical ability. And now some of the originals are still under Viv's fat thumb if they want to keep their careers.
I honestly don't get the hate for season 2. Sure it gets pretty melodramatic and the pacing is all over the place, but I'm invested enough in the characters at this point that I don't mind.
Only episode I didn't really like was the summer camp one. But by contrast the Fizz/Mammon episode was the toppest of tiers.
Yeah but she wouldn't so why bother respecting her? She's a doormat and sinners are life-long predators. Unless they actually frick with her properly Luci won't get involved either.
Also frankly we don't know her powerlevel. She is technically half seraphim but we have no idea how that has worked out for her.
Where is this implied. She probably has some special bloodline mojo and could kill one or two mooks sure, but someone like Alastor would grind her into dust, and if he couldnt, why would she need his help to begin with?
It's aight. The lore is very inconsistent though, I mean episode 6 was especially dumb. The angels apparently don't know what it takes to get into heaven? If the wretched are condemned to hell, isn't it the opposite for heaven? Where being good in life is rewarded with a good afterlife?
I guess it's a way to make heaven seem corrupt or elitist, otherwise it would make people like Adam seem in the right for wanting sinners to be deservedly punished. And I'm still confused how people "die" in hell, it's like what happens? Are their souls just blotted out from existence?
> And I'm still confused how people "die" in hell, it's like what happens?
True hell isnt getting raped by demons in hot sauce for eternity, that is just ancient greek bs. The real hell is the so called second death aka stop existing
Some people don't want to exist after they die. Finding out there was a hell that they default into is the punishment. The sweet release from existence is the extermination.
>The angels apparently don't know what it takes to get into heaven? If the wretched are condemned to hell, isn't it the opposite for heaven? Where being good in life is rewarded with a good afterlife?
the angels job is to make sure the system is maintained, not to understand or change it >inb4 wh40k
I mean not exactly, my wife and I watch the show and she's a pastor she explains the show is really following a progressive mindset of something Martin Luther used to express in the 1500's.
The show is very much repeating a lot of the commentary that Martin Luther had against the catholic church to the point they might just reveal the real reason people get into heaven is because they donated to churches a lot, thus causing the angels and demons to really throw things out.
I mean the fact the song at the end of the first episode is about how Angels see the world in black and white while Charlie argues that demons are okay to seek redemption even in the afterlife is exactly something Martin Luther used to preach, humans are both sinners and saints and deserve redemption in life and death.
I feel sorry for all you homies who never watched Helluva as it was new and coming out through season 1 back in 2020/1.
The hype from the Hazbin pilot and Hunicast were in full swing and it felt like we were getting lightning in a bottle from all angles.
Now it seems like it's cool to hate it Vivzie's work, but there was a long while where nearly everyone thought it was legitimately amazing.
>but there was a long while where nearly everyone thought it was legitimately amazing
No, you're just a newbie by comparison.
We've known she's an art thief ever since she got attention with her Keisha fan animation.
>Can say "Frick", "c**t" "Goddamn" every other word >Can have Angel dust rub his hands all over his body and talk about wanting to suck a dick, show him about to receive analingus >Can show a rapey moth pimp hump and grope Angel dust >Can show people eating bodies, can show Vaggie's eye get ripped out of her head and be crushed into jelly >Naked furry on a porn set? Nope, can't have an ass crack
This is getting too stupid to even parody, why the FRICK are western cartoon allergic to casual female nudity?
>hell is a horrible place >no hitler
Maybe have people who lucifer directly tortures as his job-like the first circle Hitler is with cassius, brutus, being chewed by him.
>no Nero >no rapists >no true degenerates >no nazi's >no Ghengis Klan or Stalin or Misc Pot >Lucifer, the original fallen one, is a b***h boy >the worse we've seen is a pimp act like a real pimp
I'm so tired of this pussified view of hell. This is clearly an adult animation so it can easily coast into much darker topics and ppl.
>Adam is merc'd >over the course of season 2 he is vindicated >proven to be the good guy >sinners can't be redeemed >God knew this and judged them >Em is stripped of her titles and heavenly powers >cast down to hell >experiences the full scope of the damned >begs for a second chance >God says no >decides to go full sinner >turns out the whole show was Heart of Darkness >Em is used to show how fast one can fall
I hate the creator of Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss but god I feel bad for the characters they have so much potential
I'm gonna be sad if in the future Charlie is known as only that girl from that mediocre series or that girl from the Verbalase meme
I like how people enjoy almost all the music, but the writing is garbage.
It makes Viv seem like an ideas person but she fails all the time at execution. And needs other people to carry her to success.
So I heard Viv said in previous streams or something, that kids don't go to hell because they don't have good judgement like adults do, even if they were the brattiest ones in their lives. Anyone got proof of that or was that changed for the sake of drama for this show? Cause than Camille's kids and the appearance of that boy to back up Vaggie's angel theory contradicts it. Especially when also remembering Hellborn sinners are exempt from extermination and sinners become infertile after death.
So all sinners are infertile and only hellborns can make babies? Damn so that's why they frick so much. I guess characters like Alastor will never have a daughter and he has to settle for Charlie
Carmille's kids are obviously teenagers at the very least and the kid that got saved by Vaggie might be a hellborn from the cannibal colony (if true then that means Vaggie's sacrifice was futile kek)
Because he's probably narcissistic, hides something like being pedo like all the minecraft youtubers or something or he's just autistic and acts weird maybe. You can see him angle his face in a weird way to look better and that's some mental illness indicator already
The mask allows Adam to essentially get baked.
Oh right masks do that. It's like a magic armor that gets you high? Maybe angels need that if they live for eternity
> Oh right masks do that. It's like a magic armor that gets you high? Maybe angels need that if they live for eternity
Think of it more like Adam’s escapism from painful memories and reality. With Vaggie displaying how Adam truly feels under the mask (killing his own children).
Considering ALL of humanity are Adams children Lillith quite literally damned his children to do evil onto each other all the time while Adam only ever gets to see a few of them be good enough to reach Heaven. That he is this nice to Charlie is honestly saint worthy. The exterminations are honestly him having mercy by not making them have to suffer in Hell wich is forever.
I don't get this about episode 6, if Sera is so afraid of Adam mentioning the extermination to everyone else in Heaven, why did she invite someone whose whole and known goal there was to ask very explicitly for that extermination to stop very likely in front of everyone in public courtroom she invited them too.
she was probably banking on being able to say 'lol what is she lying about now? typical devil' and kick her out, but adam blurting it out erased her ability to deny it.
>heaven is full of tate bros >hell is full of shitlibs and homosexuals
WHERE DO THE COOL WAR CRIMINALS GO NIRVANA??
I always hated this thing but seriously someone needs to get that Hispanic b***h to listen to some NSBM or at least some BMSS
So in season 1, it’s established that Vox is the most powerful/influential of the Vees who has the most amount of respect in hell and technology that brainwashes people to his will.
And in this season, Viv wasn’t sure if there was a season 2, and she wanted to make it self-conclusive.
And in season 1, Alastor promises that he will change the status queue against Vox in particular.
Alastor also brings over an army of cannibals for an incoming war in season 1. Which thematically doesn’t fit if his enemy actually is Adam… And was instead Vox…
Musical numbers still make me giggle when you think about 'em. All these people -- unprompted -- just start singing and everyone just sorta goes along with it, some even join in. The characters -- in universe -- without practice or planning, sing in time, in tune, and bounce off each other's verses. It's so impromptu and I love it
>Characters I like most are Adam and Pentious >Both are dying in the finale
Sort of kills my hope for the future when the two best characters are killed in the very first fricking season.
The plotting is kind of weak. They've wasted a lot of time on irrelevant characters and ignoring the core cast on an already fairly short and rushed season.
It kind of goes all over the place, and it feels like we're missing cut content.
Most of the voices are good, other than vegana.
Most of the songs are bangers, though there are a few duds.
Hopefully season 2 will make things a bit more cohesive.
>same old midwittery on religion from over 20 years ago
The more things change, the more they stay the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Dress_Up
>The great Lord almighty, the father of all creation >cant figure out how to keep everyone from suffering
kek dude is a failure, his only glory is the pain his children feel.
>devolves to insulting
"How long, O simple ones, will you love your simple ways? How long will scoffers delight in their scorn and fools hate knowledge?
responding to knowledge of the problem of evil with insults isn't very noble of you Christcuck
Don't you love knowledge?
3 months ago
Anonymous
God literally calls you a fool. Hahahaha.
You are a Satancuck.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>calls me a cuck
isnt that a sin Christian? malicious insults and obscene sexual commentary?
doesn't sound like you handled my response with any grace. Your in sin.
Sounds like your are Satan's b***h tonight.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You openly war against us and get surprised when we righteously slap you and call you a loser and a worshipper of evil. Little viper. You will fear God.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>not even close to how it works
Ever heard of 'tough love'? Who else is famous for being loving, but uncompromising, even a little harsh?
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not even religious, but yours is still a midwit take.
Look at this Christian? a godless (non religious) man has more grace than you in debate.
Doesn't look well for your example as a Christian.
I didn't even insult you first. I insulted God.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I insulted God.
And we would stone your ass for it back then. What part of “we love God” don’t you understand???
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not even religious, but yours is still a midwit take.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the problem is evil is midwit? I don't know of any solutions to the problem. So how would it be midwit?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Well consider this. If that's such a problem, why didn't everyone reach the same conclusion literal millennia ago and stop worshipping God?
You've never even stopped to really think about that have you? Maybe you want to look into that, before you think you have all the answers. Frickin' n00b.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Jesus Christ could literally come down from the heavens to slap him, and he still wouldn’t believe.
Atheist are legit insane, anon. I think it would be easier to convert Muslims.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm not religious, but I'm not some pseud redditor like that homosexual whose argument is so old it's literally a gag on an early Simpsons episode:
3 months ago
Anonymous
Like God said: “There is nothing new under the Sun”
God also coined terms of “life is short”, “the blind leading the blind”, “scapegoat”, “the skin of my teeth”, “an eye for an eye”, and many others.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>God also coined terms of “life is short”
Hippocrates is not God, you idolatrous filth.
3 months ago
Anonymous
For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, and it also appears on Hallmark cards, but Hallmark didn't coin it either.
3 months ago
Anonymous
How old is King Solomon?
3 months ago
Anonymous
The book? It's deuterocanonical so very late BC/very early AD. After Hippocrates, certainly.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Matthew 1:17
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations
So… way way way way before Hippocrates.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>If you count the generations of Noah, lo the Earth is but 5000 years old
You should have said you were YEC right off the bat, I was talking to you as if you were a normal person.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>God also coined terms of “life is short”
Hippocrates is not God, you idolatrous filth.
If only there were some easy way to check that.
I'd call that a pretty good hit-rate considering how easy it is for shit to be misattributed. Go frick yourself pseud Atheist homosexual. Also you might want to look up the meaning of 'straining a gnat and swallowing a camel'.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>letting some moron MI algo tell him what to think
Eye for an eye predates the bible.
3 months ago
Anonymous
"Life is short" is the first three words of Aphorisms, you complete and utter clown.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Everyone is insane except the Seventh Day Adventist Christian Reform Movement (the only true religion). Every single other person in the world is either lying, mind-controlled by Satan, or clinically psychotic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah. It’s always like that. Mudfossil university was literally attacked by every university and scientist community to prove that this world prefers to serve Satan (the lie) over the Truth (God).
Why do you think Christ called himself “the Truth”?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Hahahaha I grew up seventh day and it’s a death cult more obsessed with the end of the world then any other Christian sect I’ve ever learned about.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The majority of people on this planet are simply not intelligent.
Proud Christcuck here
Natural evil, stuff like forest fires and hurricanes and plague, are disorder in the natural world that God allows and utilizes to carry out his plans. Sometimes he allows these things because human beings need to suffer in order to truly understand the value of the good things in their lives, as well as to give them the opportunity to grow and change. Other times he might allow the natural consequences of our actions to play out in order to punish us for our failures. Or he might allow destruction to make space for improved creation.
Human evil is the natural consequence of original sin and free will. God gives us the choice to act in accordance with his covenants and commands, or to act in a way that damages our relationship with him. The latter includes deliberately harming ourselves or others in an unjust manner through violence and theft. God allows this not because he is powerless to stop human suffering, but because it is more valuable to him that we choose to do good by forming a relationship with him by our own hand rather than him controlling our minds completely.
It's easy for us to point at how fricked up the world is and how senseless and extreme human suffering can be, and say "how could a loving God allow any of this?" Ultimately, it's a matter of whether or not you have faith that things will be made right in the end. And I do.
3 months ago
Anonymous
While I used to be a redditor atheist now turned eugenicist racist primitivist, I found good and evil are more human constructs we apply an all powerful force gave us the ability to make in our minds. God is inscrutable even if we had an eternity and more to understand it so trying to apply it creating good and evil seems like applying good and evil to a mass extinction event such as the meteor 65 million years ago.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The problem with the apple of knowledge is that mankind would define their own good and evil, which opposes God’s values.
3 months ago
Anonymous
things aren't made right in the end for most people.
most end up eternally suffering in the worst way possible according to your book.
3 months ago
Anonymous
As a Christian I know that faith and cooperation with God's grace is the one *guaranteed* path to salvation and eternal life in heaven.
But it is God and God alone that decides who he accepts into his kingdom. I can't make the determination of who is saved and who is damned myself, that would be arrogance.
All I can hope for is to live a good life devoted to building his kingdom here, and spread the good news that Christ has risen from the dead and will return to us one day.
You don't have to actually believe in a god to figure out the hypotheticals here. IF there's a God as per the Christian Bible, then you have an immortal soul, and IF you pass the 'test' that means any 'muh suffering' that happens in your mortal life doesn't amount to dick when you have the rest of eternity to not give a frick about it, (though you don't even have to do that since God Himself will wipe away ever tear the second you get there).
Why does God allow evil and suffering? He doesn't. That's why there's none in Heaven. He's just giving your imperfect stragglers a second chance to get your arse to Mars:
Doesn't necessarily mean God actually exists, but if one can't entertain the hypothetical and figure shit like that out, then one is literally moronic.
That's pretty much what I meant by "all will be made right in the end," although you articulated it in a better way than I did, which I appreciate.
Even if your life sucks now and will continue to suck until you first die, you will be resurrected when the time comes, and your misfortune will turn to good fortune when Christ returns. What is 80 years in an eternal life?
3 months ago
Anonymous
me too.
3 months ago
Anonymous
What is with this Anon? What's with the weird dog sock thing? Do you jack off into that?
Why do you keep posting it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
he is not a sock. he is my fren. we watch TV together.
3 months ago
Anonymous
3 months ago
Anonymous
my baby
3 months ago
Anonymous
what's his name anon
based stuffed friend haver
3 months ago
Anonymous
Dirk.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You don't have to actually believe in a god to figure out the hypotheticals here. IF there's a God as per the Christian Bible, then you have an immortal soul, and IF you pass the 'test' that means any 'muh suffering' that happens in your mortal life doesn't amount to dick when you have the rest of eternity to not give a frick about it, (though you don't even have to do that since God Himself will wipe away ever tear the second you get there).
Why does God allow evil and suffering? He doesn't. That's why there's none in Heaven. He's just giving your imperfect stragglers a second chance to get your arse to Mars:
Doesn't necessarily mean God actually exists, but if one can't entertain the hypothetical and figure shit like that out, then one is literally moronic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>He does allow evil and suffering, but it's fine because it evens out to approaching zero in the long run (provided you join his club)
Well, it's better than most apologetics I've heard.
3 months ago
Anonymous
No it started at zero. Man fricked that up.
?t=97
He could have smoked us right off the fricking planet, (and almost did), but you're whining about getting one more chance before He restores perfection - the very universe you're complaining about not existing. The one you otherwise wouldn't be allowed into because you're currently part of the problem?
>muh suffering
Ever taken your dog to the vet?
3 months ago
Anonymous
I take it back, it's about on par with most apologetics.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nope, you're the one with the tired old arguments. You're anti-religious indoctrination by other butthurt reddit-tier pseuds actually prevents you from actually thinking things through - even considering the possibility.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I didn't make any arguments. More importantly, you should know that - you call me anti-religious and no anti-religious argument has been made in that reply chain, right back to Proud Christcuck. So who are you talking to?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>complaining that people misidentified you on an anonymous imageboard.
Do anongays really?
3 months ago
Anonymous
No that's normal, but who is he misidentifying me as? Charitably he misclicked a quote somewhere, else he has some other person dwelling on his mind.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're not wrong, God is beyond a 7 dimensional being who has greater concerns than one human. However, no one actually thinks that suffering is great. It really sucks. Otherwise, there would be no Christians in power to enforce Christian virtues. Like, they say that wars and illnesses are part of his plan yet they want to prohibit abortion, puberty blockers, and euthanasia for causing suffering.
A Christian telling them to ignore their own negative experience about the world in favor of adopting their own negative experience about it in the future makes them unconvinced.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's almost as if their beliefs lack any rigorous internal consistency.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's almost as if their beliefs lack any rigorous internal consistency.
Imagine being so moronic you criticise Christianity for 'lacking internal consistency' for wanting to ban abortion and euthanasia. Don't even get me started on puberty blockers.
Yeah, better to believe 'consistent' shit like men can become women because men and women are the same, except when they're not, so CALL ME MA'AM bigot!
ffs you people look insane even comparted to the most rabid Christian zealot.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>yeah well how 'bout them trannies
Apropos of nothing? If you're that desperate to talk about them I'm sure there are threads and people out there more than happy to oblige.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Human evil is the natural consequence of original sin and free will.
Free will doesn't exist in a scenario with an omnipotent, omniscient deity. He knew how things would go for you before you ever did anything.
If you believe is nigh-omnipotent and nigh-omniscient(rather than completely omnipotent and omniscient), fair enough.
The Bible itself says he designed some people purely to be damned.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I don't really see how God's omniscience is passively deterministic? I think there are broad strokes that are inevitable but that He leaves it to us to figure out the rest, then works with what we give Him. So regardless of how things play out, Christ will come back, but it's still up to us if we want to cooperate with His grace. If we refuse that's on us but it won't change the big picture.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If he knows before we are created that we are damned, then he already knows your choices and clearly intended for us to go to hell. Full omniscience makes for determinism.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>baby's first philosophy
Basic b***h take. have a nice day.
hes taken a weird abrupt shitty turn where he watches alot of tiktok/instigram normalgay media and i had basically told him i dont want to talk about that shit, but this is the end result of ignoring it.
Actually I'm more worried about my son. He just came out of his room, saw me watching Hazbin, sperged out, and went back into his room and shut the door saying something about killing himself. Always has been a bit of a homosexual, (all the MLP posters in his room made me wonder too). Probably my fault for not beating him enough. Going to kick him out of the house and disown him tomorrow anyway.
I really wanted to like episode 6, but the important story beats getting done through song was painful to experience. It's sad the writers felt they had to do it this way. Lute is hot. I'm shipping her with Vaggie. Charlie is shippable with everyone, apparently. Episode 5 was pretty great, after I got over the fact that Lucifer is a sad sack of shit played for laughs.
I'm pretty sure this show is ending on a cliffhanger this season, even if they probably weren't sure if a season 2 was ordered.
I kind of wished she was the black chick one in the fan art. At least something interesting to change up design-wise given Lute is just albino Raven. Christ, her shows do feel not out of place on Toonami back in 2003 and they look like they came from that time period.
I also thought they were automatons of some kind, sinless since they have no flesh to commit sin. Weirdly Steven Universe's Gem Homeworld is what I thought Viv would depict Heaven as due to the contrasting orderly crystalline plane to Hell's chaotic fleshy plane.
Why does the show act like Charlie succeeded in redeeming a single sinner
I mean yay Angel Dust was kinda nice to his friend and stopped taking hard drugs (which charlie somehow knew), the frick about that means he's now heaven worthy? Instead the show just skips over this to make Heaven look like meanies who won't ever give anyone a second change, only to then also reveal they can't even do it!
I don't think they went that far. Charlie was clear she was simply showing off AD to prove he's at least on the path to self improvement. To show redemption could be possible
I don't think they went that far. Charlie was clear she was simply showing off AD to prove he's at least on the path to self improvement. To show redemption could be possible
Did you miss Emily's entire speech about how "she was right, Sera"?
The one and only thing they undoubtedly proved is that the criteria for sorting souls into heaven or hell is an unknown.
Is it wrong that I find Adam to be the best character?
Even though he's like, the only guy they're trying to make 100% unsympathetic alongside Valentino. He and Lute are fun as frick.
Contrarianism, because he's a dudebro antagonist in a show made by lesbians. I wish they'd made him the entertaining and funny kind of butthole, like Blitzo in his better-written moments, but he doesn't get any good lines.
Which is weird because there is just so much fricking nuance you could have with this guy. Hell here's some unique elements for Adam you could play on:
-He is Charlie's mom's ex and Charlie's dad literally stole his first girl from him
-Charlie's dad then proceeded to tempt his second wife into sin, thereby irrevocably fricking creation itself and dooming untold numbers of his descendants to hell
-He's then made the guy in charge of killing said descendants
Like goddamn, he's the perfect tier 1 antagonist for a 1st season. Refusing to give Charlie a chance not just cause he doesn't believe in her idea, but because she's Charlie MORNINGSTAR, daughter of the guy who personally double ruined his life and of the woman who dumped him.
Which is weird because there is just so much fricking nuance you could have with this guy. Hell here's some unique elements for Adam you could play on:
-He is Charlie's mom's ex and Charlie's dad literally stole his first girl from him
-Charlie's dad then proceeded to tempt his second wife into sin, thereby irrevocably fricking creation itself and dooming untold numbers of his descendants to hell
-He's then made the guy in charge of killing said descendants
Like goddamn, he's the perfect tier 1 antagonist for a 1st season. Refusing to give Charlie a chance not just cause he doesn't believe in her idea, but because she's Charlie MORNINGSTAR, daughter of the guy who personally double ruined his life and of the woman who dumped him.
That’s because Vox is the true season 1 villain that puppeting Adam and the exorcist from the masks they’re wearing. So Viv is banking more on making Vox an actual opposing villain over Adam, and shocking the audience with a stupid plot twist. Just like with Lilith (Eve in disguise).
In all seriousness, why would an overlord want to wipe out their own underlings.(for a lack of a better word). Unless they fear being usurped. Or does overpopulation bother them as well. Which to me doesn't make sense
He's an entitled shit that loves the sound of his own voice. He seems annoying as frick to be around, I don't understand what people like about him.
He's unapologetic about who he is and revels in who he is. He's basically a "Pure Evil" bad guy trope https://youtu.be/1-XprjlATEo?si=CLsHn0gxmHJwk6uj
Yeah, he's against our Protagonist Charlie and company, but he's having so much fun in his work that you can't help but enjoy watching him enjoy himself. >Hot as frick though
>He's unapologetic about who he is and revels in who he is.
Didn't he get nervous and look to the seraphim for confirmation about why he was in heaven?
Yes, he doesn't wanna admit *something* because he got a talking to by Sera to keep his mouth shut about Exterminations or never really had to think about *why* he's in Heaven. One could see it as the crack of his 3rd Act Breakdown, the way the protagonists can crack his veneer.
Taking him at face value: he's in Heaven so that makes him a Winner. In fact, he was the *first* one into Heaven >that makes him the best
Yes, we the audience knows he's full of shit but he the character does not care. He's Adam, the original dick, the Dick Master, all other dicks descend from him, and he's in Heaven so he must be worthy of being in Heaven. That's really all he cares about... from what we've seen. People have their theories about the LED masks, but I try to take the story at face value until I'm told otherwise by the writers
> but I try to take the story at face value until I'm told otherwise by the writers
With the stunts they’ve pulled on Adam’s wife, Adam himself is going to have something similar. Like, you think he’s a big goofy hypocrite, but then the twist is unveiled and you see a completely broken man that is devastated with losing Eve and nearly his entire family to sin. So devastated by the losses, he purposely made himself super stupid and incompetentto forget about it. Turning himself into Joe Biden.
In Eve’s case, it’s about being blamed for eating the apple. But she ends up being a massive… puppet controlled by Roo.
>With the stunts they’ve pulled on Adam’s wife
You mean talking about how she's free spirited and fell in love with Lucifer? Went missing 7 years ago? Or Eve eating the apple? Are these stunts shown in the show or is this all "podcast, fan art, schizo" nonsense?
3 months ago
Anonymous
No. Eve. You will need to hold your breathe for this, Eve stolen Lilith’s identity and you see her in episode 6. Her plan is to cause a war between heaven and hell. And she is possessed by Roo, the root of all evil.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Schizo babble, gotcha
I'm just gonna watch and enjoy the ride, you have fun coming up with theories and whatnot
3 months ago
Anonymous
That’s not a theory. That’s a leak.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Even worse because we have no context so it's all just schizo babble until we're shown the grand master plan
3 months ago
Anonymous
Which is… Hazbin Hotel is about last-minute character change twist?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Source on this Roo shit and specifically why Root of All Evil isn't called Rae.
I think what I like of this show over Helluva Boss is that (mostly) it didn't take itself that seriously, even in darker moments. Outside of Valentino abusing Angel, the rest is played in a very campy way. Even creepy evil Alastor moments, while not played for laughs, have a more playful attitude than most of Helluva. There's way too many whiny and crybaby moments on that show, especially in season 2, than in most episodes of Hazbin.
Adam and Eve being in heaven makes no sense because they are the 1st sinners. Their entire gimmick is being kicked the frick out of Heaven and the burden of their frickup being passed to their children.
Goddamn the source material for this shit is literally the most discussed book in history how hard was it to make it make a bit more sense.
Most people don't even realize that Lucifer practically doesn't even exist in the bible. A very small minority have actually read the damn thing, most media just takes from divine comedy which had Adam becoming an Angel and Paradise Lost
It has some amusing characters, some entertaining songs, and it's art style at least isn't complete shit like Amphibia or Owl House. But no, it's not good. The writing is really BAD.
The big twist is that Heaven does NOT know how dead humans get into Heaven was the stray that broke the camels back if you ask me. So much bad writing with a stupid premise and this was the build up? That Heaven doesn't have rules and guidelines to see who deserve to get into Heaven? This is worse than Helluva Boss. At least Helluva Boss is meant to be comedic, Hazbin Hotel is meant to be dramatic.
The only reason to watch Hazbin Hotel is to hear a few nice songs and see some characters like Alastor, Husk, Pentious and the Overlords from Hell. Charlie herself is the WORST of the main characters. Her whole inexplicable Disney Princess but from Hell personality is idiotic. Vaggie is also shit since she only exists to be a one note dyke. The show is a cemented 6/10. Used to be higher but the huge plot twist about Heaven really brought it down. This is trash. And once the novelty wears off you know that people will look badly on retrospect about Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss while we're at it).
>Her whole inexplicable Disney Princess but from Hell personality is idiotic
Funny because it could have been explained by her being raised by her doofus Angel dad who's still fundamentally a good person, but no, actually they barely know each other and it was Lilith that raised her.
Even worse they introduced Emily the angel girl in the recent episode. Emily is Charlie but with a GOOD reason for being so kindly and naive because she was all her life one of the employees of Heaven so of course she's surrounded by good kind civil people. She doesn't see cannibals on the street killing and eaten others like Charlie does for example. Emily being the protagonist would make sense because of her background. Charlie sees the worst of the worst and still insists that somehow
"These are my people! I must save them" which is nonsense.
Look at how many sinners heard that Heaven wants to kill them even faster and how they still will NOT go to Charlie's Hotel. The sinners do NOT care. Charlie's personality is too annoying as she ignores the reality in front of her eyes.
>Heaven doesn't have rules and guidelines to see who deserve to get into Heaven?
They don't have the power to set rules and guidelines for who gets into heaven. That's ostensibly God's job, a.k.a. Sir Not-Appearing-in-this-Film, and just because they preach their own moral code doesn't mean they have any more information about Him than is equally available to everyone else. Much like the situation is in real life.
I'm amazed at how many people, certainly the majority of posters, can't see that this isn't a theology lecture. Heaven and hell are a setting to talk about things that exist in the real world.
Christians and people raised by Christians often have difficulty separating the conceptual use of Western mythology from a specific theological attack against their particular sect and religion. Having a personal religious saviour apparently encourages you to take religion personally.
There's no way Adam is in league with one of the big boys like Luci if he has to knowtow
Some people don't want to exist after they die. Finding out there was a hell that they default into is the punishment. The sweet release from existence is the extermination.
Adam respects heavenly authority like he does in the garden of Eden. He however has literal golden wings, and by biblical lore, he is supposed to be above any of the angels. There are many seraphs, but there is only one golden winged being, Adam. The image of the golden being above all angels.
Well yeah, Christianity is 2000 years old and the popular perception of it has been clouded by like a thousand years of basically-atheistic fanfiction like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy, syncretization, and bowdlerizing.
If Viv wasn't b***hmade she'd have the seven archangels, God, Adam, Eve, etc etc instead of a bunch of OCs.
You can tell any story, but it's frustrating that she chooses both. It's funny to rape Sir P but NOT AD. One character who is signicantly less horrible and doesn't deserve it, but AD Oh he's into that shit and it's "hot".
His design is so ugly, no idea why people find him frickable.
who said it is before marriage? >Emily becomes fallen angel >Charlie gets to teach her all kind of kinky shit.
you really think they is going to wait for marriage?
I remember on I once met this 23 year old Law Student from Florida who was fricking obsessed with show. He was a neoconservative Baptist who regularly shilled for israel in political debates, and was strangely active in a discord server for a roblox game while I knew him.
strange thing was that he was exceptionally good at debatemonkey shit
Dangit, I wanted to post that Lute. Oh well, anyway >You have just broken up with Lute
Would never happen and I would appreciate it if you do not spread lies about our relationship
Here you go 🙂
https://www.amazon.com/Hazbin-Hotel-Season-1/dp/B0CLMPQTJ2?wi=lr6zhkpa_0&ref_=slsr_GMEShp_HZBN_Search_m_t_m_vn_lr6zhkpa_0&pd_rd_w=XHTTe&content-id=amzn1.sym.dc24a671-e771-4dcb-8318-cca51105c2a8:amzn1.sym.dc24a671-e771-4dcb-8318-cca51105c2a8&pf_rd_p=dc24a671-e771-4dcb-8318-cca51105c2a8&pf_rd_r=N7W2DY5A9B7GV04S9XVM&pd_rd_wg=MqMIH&pd_rd_r=3055e28e-4475-4423-bf0c-c40766a60d53&qid=1706526677
Imagine Alastor doing the 'daddy' shit initially purely to annoy Lucifer but then Charlie falling for him as a result and then him getting harassed like this. By someone he can't just attack or tell to frick off no less.
Viv trying to paint this as "fatherly relationship to Charlie" was so dumb.
Lucifer looks like a guy who's pissed and wants to murder his daughter's boyfriend (Alastor).
After he see's Alastor putting his hand on Charlie's shoulder when he first enters the hotel Lucifer is basically overjoyed to find out that his daughter is currently experimenting with lezzing out.
There's no other way to interpret the rest of the Alastor/Lucifer interactions with that context as anything else but the 'female leads father hates the male lead' trope.
If Lute was such a cute without her mask, i can only imagine how Adam looks like a Gaston chad dickmaster.
He reminds me of a douchebag version of PC Principal
>be you, a recently condemned sinner who has woken up in hell in an unfamiliar body (fill in the blank on how you look) >you're hungry but you have no money to buy food >doesn't matter since you can't die of starvation but it still hurts >have to navigate the streets of hell carefully or else you'll end up cannibalized, mutilated, or dead all over again just to painfully regenerate >every day is a nightmare and no matter what you try you can't seem to pull it together to get a steady job or find a place to stay >this is way worse than your living life >finally manage to run errands for a shopkeeper that is way too nice to be in hell and she pays you enough for a night on the town >frick it you won't starve so you deserve to let loose and get drunk for the first time in forever >enter night club where you finally take time to gawk at just how sexy some demons are >unsure if you yourself are sexy in this form >Valentino happens to catch a glance at you standing in the corner with a drink, looking as closed as a clam >He knows fresh meat when he sees it >Has one of his girls call you over to where he's sitting >Wow he looks important, surrounded by so many beautiful and handsome sinners and smoking some sort of fancy red smoke cigar >You approach him and offer a timid, "h-hello..." >He motions for you to come closer and touches your face tenderly >Your heart is pounding >Despite his razor sharp teeth, he's dangerously handsome and he's wearing a gentle expression >He says, "you poor little beauty, you...did you just get here?" >You nod >"It's so scary here, isn't it? You look utterly exhausted...here, sit with me." >You sit next to him and he pulls his coat over you to keep you warm >This is the first time anyone has ever shown any concern for you out of the goodness of their heart >He asks you to tell him all about yourself
>Acts genuinely interested, tells you that hell is no place for a girl with your beauty to be wandering alone and that if you will allow it he'll make sure you're taken care of >Takes you home with him and makes sweet love to you >Actually better than any sex you ever had on Earth >Invites you to stay in his apartment >Ask if this makes you his girlfriend >He says, "of course" >Makes sure you're fed every day and comfortable, but doesn't take you out with him every night >Refuses to elaborate what he does for work but gives you some tips on surviving the streets >One night asks if he can record having sex with you >You agree and find it kinda romantic >He lavishes you with gifts, kisses you all the time and spoils you, gives you unending orgasms every night >The next week asks you to try drugs with him >Insists it's nothing addictive and he knows you aren't someone who could get hooked, it's just a little fun >Get absolutely fricked up with him >This turns into a three day binge for you >Feel ashamed after the fact and apologize to him, he's understandably disappointed >"I really didn't think you were like that" >He starts acting distant but of course he had given you extra doses, even forcing you to take more and more although you don't remember >You swear to not touch any substances again and can't apologize enough
>You love him so much and you are afraid of losing him >You don't want to be alone again in hell >Ask if there's anything you can do >"You could help me with my work." >Well okay. >"But first you have to sign a contract with me. It's a formality for the studio." >Well...okay. >"And understand that I will own your soul." >A little intimidating, but that's fine. >Sign the contract and smile at him, thinking that you are finally rebuilding some progress >A chain appears around your neck and wrapped around his wrist and he slams you to the floor >Tells you that it took long enough to get you to sign yourself off >Informs you that you're going to make him a frickton of money making porn for him >His investors already liked what he recorded of you weeks ago >You are in disbelief, ask him, "I thought you were my boyfriend? I thought...this was a relationship." >"I'm a lot of frickups' boyfriend and I'm in a lot of relationships--business relationships. Did you think all of this was for free?!" >From this day forward you are Valentino's bawd and he makes you do the most degrading sex acts imaginable on camera >The worst part is that you still love him and still crave to see that soft side of him again >Every now and then he grants it to you--just a slice of compassion enough that it keeps you compliant >You become obsessed with him and realize that this is now your forever until one day the executioners strike you down >But that would never happen, right? >Val will protect you so long as you're one of his favorite toys
>Acts genuinely interested, tells you that hell is no place for a girl with your beauty to be wandering alone and that if you will allow it he'll make sure you're taken care of >Takes you home with him and makes sweet love to you >Actually better than any sex you ever had on Earth >Invites you to stay in his apartment >Ask if this makes you his girlfriend >He says, "of course" >Makes sure you're fed every day and comfortable, but doesn't take you out with him every night >Refuses to elaborate what he does for work but gives you some tips on surviving the streets >One night asks if he can record having sex with you >You agree and find it kinda romantic >He lavishes you with gifts, kisses you all the time and spoils you, gives you unending orgasms every night >The next week asks you to try drugs with him >Insists it's nothing addictive and he knows you aren't someone who could get hooked, it's just a little fun >Get absolutely fricked up with him >This turns into a three day binge for you >Feel ashamed after the fact and apologize to him, he's understandably disappointed >"I really didn't think you were like that" >He starts acting distant but of course he had given you extra doses, even forcing you to take more and more although you don't remember >You swear to not touch any substances again and can't apologize enough
>You love him so much and you are afraid of losing him >You don't want to be alone again in hell >Ask if there's anything you can do >"You could help me with my work." >Well okay. >"But first you have to sign a contract with me. It's a formality for the studio." >Well...okay. >"And understand that I will own your soul." >A little intimidating, but that's fine. >Sign the contract and smile at him, thinking that you are finally rebuilding some progress >A chain appears around your neck and wrapped around his wrist and he slams you to the floor >Tells you that it took long enough to get you to sign yourself off >Informs you that you're going to make him a frickton of money making porn for him >His investors already liked what he recorded of you weeks ago >You are in disbelief, ask him, "I thought you were my boyfriend? I thought...this was a relationship." >"I'm a lot of frickups' boyfriend and I'm in a lot of relationships--business relationships. Did you think all of this was for free?!" >From this day forward you are Valentino's bawd and he makes you do the most degrading sex acts imaginable on camera >The worst part is that you still love him and still crave to see that soft side of him again >Every now and then he grants it to you--just a slice of compassion enough that it keeps you compliant >You become obsessed with him and realize that this is now your forever until one day the executioners strike you down >But that would never happen, right? >Val will protect you so long as you're one of his favorite toys
fricked up of you to post my sexual fantasies for all of Cinemaphile to see anon
>There are Hazbin Hotel shills on this board right now >I was never contacted about the job opportunity
FUUUUUUCK. It wanted to be paid to shitpost and act offended by rightful criticism.
i'm convinced he doesn't know what sex even is other than people who like each other does it. also i hope him and cherri end up together because a socially awkward introverted autist and a wild extroverted adhd party girl could be a really fun pairing
See the only reason I disagree is that the egg minions have to come from SOMEWHERE, and even if that somewhere is a lab it implies he knows what a FRICKING EGG IS and where it comes from.
Just slugged through the first six episodes and It gets better but I still everything that happens is so forced but the animation and songs are good. Sad they didn’t keep the pilot cast but it’s not bad. I just don’t get why Adam is in Heaven isn’t he casted out of the garden of Eden forever in the Bible
I love how for this to work heaven has to be moronic (and somehow allow pointless sex). Also God is still ok with it so.... Heaven simply comes off as based
She removed it to symbolize her shedding the mask of the bad exterminators, she could see clearly. And so the audience could see it was her under the mask.
Except she literally comes through the portal with the rest of them, takes it off for no reason and then proceeds to kill a sinner or two and then corners the kid in an alley, it was dumb.
I mean the pacing of the show is god awful, but that scene construction was unusually fricking terrible. Its like they really wanted it out of the way so we can get the funny interaction with Lute and Adam.
She's probably killed thousands of sinners prior to this and only now she's run into a seemingly innocent sinner child (in hell) and Lute immediately sperged out and wasted a valuable soldier
Well now I'm confused because the song in episode 6 made it sound like she's a betrayer. >She should know not to trust angels
No I don't watch the series as I don't have an Amazon account
Yeah this could be the issue, They may not accept Alastor doing a heel-turn like that because that would blow up all their ships. And Vivzie is known to pander to her most autistic and horny fans.
>A...Alastor *sob*...You...You *sob* betrayed us?.... >I...I...*sob*...I thought you actually cared about u- >AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
>Implying it wouldn't be an Itachi-Sasuke forced betrayal and before he dies doing a muh heroic sacrifice in the final episode Alastor wouldn't reveal he actually did care about everyone at the Hotel and so forth.
Anon I'm not a voregay
Vore is like being swallowed whole specifically not just being eaten
Besides because the character is in hell she regenerates I don't really like guro when it's permanent
But that scene did have me wetting my panties thanks for asking
Imagine sitting down for a candle-light three-course dinner with Alastor....
3 months ago
Anonymous
>eating cuts from every variety of sinner and demon available and contemplating which ones taste the best >coating some of them in hot sauce
So romantic!
That's also a good fic you wrote btw.
And thanks, I'll try to get the next chapter out soon I'm having a lot of fun with it
>RP discord
Now I'm tempted too and I haven't dabbled in RP since high school
Sis we are so fricked I don't know why I'm down this bad it is insane
Seriously morons, if you're that desperate for simulated human interaction you might as well use chatGPT. Or actually commission porn. It'll be more fulfilling that LARPing with other autists for sure, especially if their headcanon for the homosexual spider doesn't match yours.
QRD? I never used a chatbot before
Also no girls here want to frick Angel at least pay attention
Seriously morons, if you're that desperate for simulated human interaction you might as well use chatGPT. Or actually commission porn. It'll be more fulfilling that LARPing with other autists for sure, especially if their headcanon for the homosexual spider doesn't match yours.
>simulating human interaction with an AI instead of rping with other humans >forming connection with a bot instead of other literal human beans
Anons don't need to roleplay or whatever, they need to touch grass
>'Cause here’s the thing >To know how it ends >And still begin to sing it again >As if it might turn out this time >I learned that from a friend of mine
?si=iK2eVUhjGOWDSVSM
What you say is right, and that's why I wish they'd sing that song again. Because maybe it might turn out this time
Listen if you want to shit in a cup right now and drink it, there's nothing I can do to stop you. What I can do is point out that eating shit out of a cup is fricking gross, and question what if anything you get out of it.
I could try murder or cannibalism instead, but folks are jaded these days so only the really gross shit makes the same point about LARPing as a gay spider
I mean the pacing of the show is god awful, but that scene construction was unusually fricking terrible. Its like they really wanted it out of the way so we can get the funny interaction with Lute and Adam.
It isn't just him turning me down it's how he's speaking it's ooc
If he turned me down ic he'd be like, "frick no! You think you can wave a smoking hot body in my face and I'll just fold for you? I can have a whole on my dick any time I want."
>it's another "Hazbin TOTALLY has a deeper plot going on bro, it's MORE than just shitty rushed gags!" episode
it's all so tiresome
it's like watching Charlie Brown trying to kick that football from Lucy's hands over and over again
They should show us Charlie's angelic wife every episode from now on. When she's not in an episode the other characters should be asking, "where's Emily?"
>The frick? Why's the strawberry pimp a blueberry today? >Oh? Oh that shit! Yeah, He's probably in a bad mood or something, Thinking about his 'momma' that i heard him crying about into his pillow that one time.
If Vivzie was a better writer I'd cite Wallace from Scott Pilgrim as a way to write a horny gay guy who can also be other things. But this is Vivzie we're talking about, she doesn't have the chops for anything less subtle than THE GAY SPIDER IS BEING ABUSED BY A PIMP
I actually liked the execution on that. It's rare we see a character get abused and it isn't in the far past, they don't get saved, Being pushy only makes things worse, And they just have to cope with it like real people. I don't know if i've seen that before.
The only other problem is that the rest of his screentime is gay sex jokes
A woman victim would obviously get all sorts of shitflinging. Don't know if a woman pimp would be taken seriously enough. Though I think woman abusers can sometimes be worse, partly because they're not taken seriously by the legal system. But that wouldn't really work with the show since, what legal system?
A female pimp that violently rapes you would make people so horny it would spawn 50k images and thousands of twitter bugs condescending to you how "abuse is bad" and getting made into SJW cringe compilations which spawn a new wave of fascism
A woman victim would obviously get all sorts of shitflinging. Don't know if a woman pimp would be taken seriously enough. Though I think woman abusers can sometimes be worse, partly because they're not taken seriously by the legal system. But that wouldn't really work with the show since, what legal system?
Well Valentino ain't exactly a man either. He's a giga flaming homosexual, but there's only a handful of non-flamboyant male characters so this doesn't register in people's heads. However, how common are gay femboy flamer abusers in media?
Killjoy only says the line about "not touching the gaze", but there's no direct indication her and Vaggie being a thing. Vaggie is even introduced to Alastor as hotel staff. Aside from Vaggie looking jelly and buttmad about everything as usual, Charlie could be scissoring Cherri Bomb for all we know, or Katie is just wrong/referring to something else.
Not even a criticism. The actual best way to handle that shit by the way, to not have characters go around announcing their sex life out of context, and works better for the whole audience either way, always has. Good example is the original text of Dorian Gray being over a century old and has implications of the main character being a degenerate doing literally gay shit, but never explicitly - because it doesn't even need to be. Oscar Wilde himself was a homo, so pretty easy to see it from inference in the text if you care to consider that aspect.
Well, frick you too. I hate it.
>cracks open a piping hot yard of coke and sips
why?
Literally everything. Just concept to execution. Hated the pilot but the show is so bad, that it makes the pilot look better by comparison.
Not a christogay either, the more hell based cartoons the better, Viv just fricking sucks as a creator and I hope she never makes a single cartoon ever again. You all have shit taste.
So why can't Charlie just kill Valentino and release Angel's soul from the contract?
She's a good natured moron, a genuine bipedal vegetable.
Its okay. Also the "musical" parts are honestly very bad, not a single song has clicked with so far.
Helluva is better
That is the meanie way and it completly goes against the theme of the show
Frick you, Keith Davids song was sick
Helluva could be but Hazbin has stronger writing and Viv had to be tardwrangled to her chargrin. Thankfully not jerking off how coolio anyone is and justifying their scummy behavior with the expectation we cry for them (Blitzo in every single episode)
>release Angel's soul from the contract?
See if this show had some THOUGHT put into it, what if being a resident at the hotel required you to sign a new contract. Because she's the daughter of Lucifer she has authority over all, and this is just how hell system works.
If at any point Val started to make it impossible for AD to abide by his new contract, there would be punishments for Val, which would make the whole poison thing and consent thing matter more.
You could totally still use the same 8 episodes to add that detail into everything but it doesn't. It's written off the top of their head and it's poorly put together.
Viv absolutely just wants AD to be beaten and abused for her own entertainment without any drive to the plot moving forward.
honestly selling your soul to a demon is how some of them got into hell in the first place. Doing it again means they didn't learn anything.
IS that though how it happened? cause we've seen there is no way of getting into heaven. Isn't it likely they sold their souls WHILE in hell in order to stay together?
This show doesn't have clear rules or limitations. I'm just making a suggestion because it would give Charlie some AUTHORITY as the daughter of the TOP GUY.
also meant selling your soul is taking a short cut and taking short cuts instead of putting in real work to become a good person.
That's fair, but I still say that charlie has to be given some level of authority over the hell lords. She at any point can say NO and be the leader of hell that she's supposed to be, but she's fairly under developed because of that. Alastor doesn't believe demons can change but then he doesn't make clear why he's really apart of this whole scheme.
Sure Charlie can be stupid and naively happy that Alastor is "helping" but we can tell that it's not really that deep. All of this is surface level "Charlistor" shipping fodder and a plot happens to exist underneath it that we have to piece together ourselves.
Viv's ENTIRE body of work is reliant on fanart and fandom to make these characters more interesting and better than they actually are. Any time someone says "how would you fix it." I don't want to bother any more, because Viv should be able to do that on her own... and if she does, she's insanely shallow.
If I was to FIX this show, I'd rather make my own damn show, even if it never got the same sort of stupid attention Viv's work did, that'd be a blessing because people who love her work are the worst people out there.
>she's insanely shallow.
Well said, and so is her show. Dumb Latina's don't produce any kind of quality artwork or thoughts.
>Dumb Latina's
You can drop the racism just to say she's a spoiled child. A toddler who still produces macaroni noodle art and gets it hung up at the MOMA.
>You can drop the racism
I'm racist though, and what I'm saying is 100% right.
The show is vapid trash designed by a genetically vapid women.
>Viv's ENTIRE body of work is reliant on fanart and fandom to make these characters more interesting and better than they actually are
I feel like this is a bad omen towards a certain model of showmaking thats slowly been pioneered in the last 9-10 years
Viv's characters would make AMAZING NFTs but she knows her audience too well and she works with artists who would out her in a second for that.
They're 100% all vibes, no soul.
Not even that, I mean the whole "Ascended fanon" trope is becoming increasingly popular and we're reaching the point where with a show like Hazbin? It could influence entire character personalities and story plans. Using fan theories as major plot points.
>what if being a resident at the hotel required you to sign a new contract
Charlie's entire morality system is based on choices. They already covered that in why Alastor can't just force new residents to stay in the hotel.
Being able to instantly override a contract would require the entire hierarchy to be rewritten. Especially if someone could just sell their soul, get the contract canceled, then leave the hotel since Charlie wouldn't force someone to change against their will.
if it was my show the most in-character thing i can think of is some kind of 'if i get murdered your ass dies with me' soul-brand clause that wouldn't make sense for the average demon to have, but would for a demon lord with the resources to be safe from the extermination and the power to make such a connection.
i'd imagine every other attempted porn producer would love to get him out of the way, but not at the expense of losing all the talent attached to him that they'd rather recruit.
oo, see that's pretty good. ANY sort of explanation as to why Val can keep getting away with his behavior is important to the story. As it stands, it's just they like that Val is an abusive butthole and that's the vibe.
Same issue with Alestor. He's just a guy who can grow big and eat people.You don't think that there hasn't been someone in hell, like Sir P, who's been working his ass off and respawing over and over again with new ways to try and finally be the one to kill him?
Alestor eats people, what if he eats someone with a bomb inside of him? Does it really not effect him? You can't just say his power level is over 9000 and call it a day.
because that would be mean and EVERYONE deserves redemption 🙁
Angel Dust thinks Charlie can't handle Valentino (which I inferred from him asking Val not to hurt her) so he probably thinks if he tells her about it she'll get hurt trying to do something. What he doesn't know if that Charlie could probably immolate him until he cancels the contract.
Three reasons
a)
b) she'd have to bust up Val and take his soul in order to compel him to release AD
c) there's no point taking down one Overlord. They are a naturally occurring institution. If there are sinners fricking each other over then there are going to be apex sinners fricking the masses and they also naturally establish an uncomfortable order. Like it or lump it overlords and their 'territories' establish 'safe' zones where denizens can live semi-normally. You could kill them all and reestablish demonic/hellborn hierarchies but Charlie doesn't have the heart to dominate others and Luci doesn't have the motivation to bother with sinners instead leaving them to their own devices.
Well that's actually pretty reasonable, thank you
Yeah. It mogs every single tranime in existence besides maybe death note or that eclipse scene in berserk 1997.
Japa wish they could create a character as based as Adam
How much are you gonna seethe when Adam gets redeemed and culled (the only 2 options for this character)
It will be both. After Nifty kills him, which will be the abrupt end of a musical number, he's going to respawn in Hell. The extermination will still be at the faster pace, so he will have ~4 months to meet Heaven's (still unknown) requirements for redemption.
Adam is not the one that is killed off. It’s Vox.
do not say this. thank you
Who else given Adam a kind of mask that gets him brainwashed to be stupider and regressed?
God fricking dammit. Viv you useless fujoshit
you are that guy obsessed with mask theory, aren't you?
That’s a funny way of spelling round table.
You know, it’s weird how they talk about the exorcist wearing the masks, but they completely ignore that Adam is literally wearing one himself.
>Yeah. It mogs every single tranime
Does anyone actually believe this?
Anime is meant for children and somehow has higher quality and is less juvenile that this show.
The best part of Hazbin are the songs and even those are mediocre at best and lyrics are bad.
The writing, pacing, characters, plot, basically everything is much worse than you're average generic anime.
frick me, I love it too
>pilot is successful
>show gets picked up by A24
>it's announced the entire cast is getting dumped in favor of replacing them with broadway talent
>people are upset
>show is released
>it is widely agreed that the singing voices performed by the professional broadway stars is the best part and they are carrying the show
So now that the dust has settled, was it a good decision after all?
They should have kept Stamper on as Sir Pentious
No way Stamper was sticking around to do it.
Would he still have self destructed?
Yes
The singing is fricking dogshit. Carrying the show? Only 4 songs out of 12 were even remotely good. Most of the songs have been entirely unnecessary.
Okay. So what is it you like about the show?
It was an excellent decision to get some real talent for the voice actors. But
>it is widely agreed that the singing voices performed by the professional broadway stars is the best part and they are carrying the show
Says who? All I've seen is literately everyone sayin the singing is the main thing holding the show back
I dislike how most of the desing are so humanized, in helluva they go a bit more wild with characters, but in here most main characters are colored humans, even in the last espisode when they go to heaven the seraphins morph from cool desings to normal colored people
The oldest art of Helluva Hotel look dope and mog everything that follows
She's just like a mangaka
I'm trying to watch Helluva Boss in the interim and holy shit this show is such an absolute fricking slog. The songs are terrible, the incidental music never fits, half of the episodes have obvious choppy moments and the plots operate entirely around tangent into tangent after tangent.
I would have liked it more if the show stuck to a firm 11 minute runtime and been like the Evil Con Carne to Hazbin's Grim Adventures. Instead it's actually longer at times than Charlie's show, and scenes DRAG to an almost glacial pace. Moxxie giving pretentious monologues and Stolas drawing out every third syllable gets old insanely fast.
Please tell me Season 2 gets better because I can barely finish Season 1.
HAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH
HAHA
Season 1 is a masterpiece compared to Season 2.
>he hates it before he's even finished season 1
oh you're in for a good time
I don't hate it, I just dislike how everything goes on way longer than it needs to. I bet she could have truncated all of S1 in half and nothing of value would be lost.
Would you believe me if I told you it gets worse?
>Season 2 gets better
why would you think Season 2 would be better?
Sure there will be moments that you go "this was neat" but the WHOLE existence of this show is a waste of time and money. The work that goes into producing this show could've been given to a million other projects that don't have "my daughter's birthday present" tax write off written all over them.
I'm just so confused what the show is trying to accomplish right now.
>Episode 6 starts with a callback to the previous episodes but is its own contained plot
>Episode 7 has this homosexual along with Verosika but they're just kind of there?
>Btw Episode 8 is the end of the season even though 7's title is literally FINALE
I'm also so conflicted why they bother to contextualize the other rings of Hell, but only as asides. Lust vs. Wrath just exist, they're interchangeable otherwise.
You weren’t even here for the shitshow when episode 8 got tied up in legal mumbo jumbo for so long they had to skip it and go straight to releasing season 2 without it. Leaving all the viewers to wonder if anything important enough happened in it that would recontextualize any season 2 episodes, with the creators themselves insisting that episode 8 was so non consequential that it didn’t make any difference that they’d skipped it and everything was fine.
I mean I'm watching ep 8 right now and holy shit this sucks. Feels like I'm being held at gunpoint to watch one of her old music videos.
Also weird to have an episode centered around Loona but still keep her as passive and reactive as in the rest of the season.
Oh boy, I hope you’re ready for her role in season 2, in which she doesn’t even get speaking lines anymore
Queen Bee is a garbage design and episode. You think it's gonna be Loona episode (don't particularly like her either) but it's more gary stu Blitz.
>it's more gary stu Blitz.
I hate how many "daddy's just a goof" episodes both these series have now. I think Blitz deserves the pain he gets. He keeps bullying Moxxie.
That boy's a b***h but shit, there is No redeemable qualities in Blitz that shows he deserves redemption.
Helluva Boss stopped being good years ago. Season 2 has NOTHING redeeming about it.
Hazbin S1 is overall better, but I still have issues with it here and there. The pacing is awful and feels like 3 seasons of material compressed poorly into 6 eps. Also I want the Pilot cast. They were good, but Viv wanted Broadway people for clout and ambition, not technical ability. And now some of the originals are still under Viv's fat thumb if they want to keep their careers.
I honestly don't get the hate for season 2. Sure it gets pretty melodramatic and the pacing is all over the place, but I'm invested enough in the characters at this point that I don't mind.
Only episode I didn't really like was the summer camp one. But by contrast the Fizz/Mammon episode was the toppest of tiers.
I remember 2 episodes were just shit, due to pacing. The rest were ok or superb
>eats human feces
>"Ah yes, superb meal. Delicious."
Are you moronic, Anon?
The writing is shit. The pace is all over the place, the characters are unlikable, and the VAs for certain characters just don't fit.
how do i even get into this? i watched the pilot and it was fun. good clean cringe fun
Step 1. Watch the pilot (complete)
Step 2. Watch the show
Step 3 (optional). Watch Helluva Boss too
...who doesn't love Hazbin Hotel?
Cinemaphile as per normal. All of Cinemaphile is contractually obligated to hate anything and everything
I only love Alastor
Why does everyone treat Charlie like shit?
Couldn't she easily kill every character seen so far except her Dad and Sara?
but that would be so meaaaan! 🙁
Shes basically a goodie goodie disney princess AKA autistic. Or I dunno maybe its her angel genes talking to her
IT'S A NAZI WIZZARD!
Yeah but she wouldn't so why bother respecting her? She's a doormat and sinners are life-long predators. Unless they actually frick with her properly Luci won't get involved either.
Also frankly we don't know her powerlevel. She is technically half seraphim but we have no idea how that has worked out for her.
Where is this implied. She probably has some special bloodline mojo and could kill one or two mooks sure, but someone like Alastor would grind her into dust, and if he couldnt, why would she need his help to begin with?
It's aight. The lore is very inconsistent though, I mean episode 6 was especially dumb. The angels apparently don't know what it takes to get into heaven? If the wretched are condemned to hell, isn't it the opposite for heaven? Where being good in life is rewarded with a good afterlife?
I guess it's a way to make heaven seem corrupt or elitist, otherwise it would make people like Adam seem in the right for wanting sinners to be deservedly punished. And I'm still confused how people "die" in hell, it's like what happens? Are their souls just blotted out from existence?
> And I'm still confused how people "die" in hell, it's like what happens?
True hell isnt getting raped by demons in hot sauce for eternity, that is just ancient greek bs. The real hell is the so called second death aka stop existing
stop existing is so fricked up, what a terrible universe to live in.
Some people don't want to exist after they die. Finding out there was a hell that they default into is the punishment. The sweet release from existence is the extermination.
>The angels apparently don't know what it takes to get into heaven? If the wretched are condemned to hell, isn't it the opposite for heaven? Where being good in life is rewarded with a good afterlife?
the angels job is to make sure the system is maintained, not to understand or change it
>inb4 wh40k
I mean not exactly, my wife and I watch the show and she's a pastor she explains the show is really following a progressive mindset of something Martin Luther used to express in the 1500's.
The show is very much repeating a lot of the commentary that Martin Luther had against the catholic church to the point they might just reveal the real reason people get into heaven is because they donated to churches a lot, thus causing the angels and demons to really throw things out.
I mean the fact the song at the end of the first episode is about how Angels see the world in black and white while Charlie argues that demons are okay to seek redemption even in the afterlife is exactly something Martin Luther used to preach, humans are both sinners and saints and deserve redemption in life and death.
APOLOGISE
I feel sorry for all you homies who never watched Helluva as it was new and coming out through season 1 back in 2020/1.
The hype from the Hazbin pilot and Hunicast were in full swing and it felt like we were getting lightning in a bottle from all angles.
Now it seems like it's cool to hate it Vivzie's work, but there was a long while where nearly everyone thought it was legitimately amazing.
>but there was a long while where nearly everyone thought it was legitimately amazing
No, you're just a newbie by comparison.
We've known she's an art thief ever since she got attention with her Keisha fan animation.
How the frick did this dumb, pure, snake end up in Hell?
Being British.
>but there was a long while where nearly everyone thought it was legitimately amazing.
not on Cinemaphile they didn't
POST CHERRISNAKE
Please 🙂
>2000
We can't let homosexuals around children, they will end up in hell
2024
>Homosexual children
We want to go to hell
>Can say "Frick", "c**t" "Goddamn" every other word
>Can have Angel dust rub his hands all over his body and talk about wanting to suck a dick, show him about to receive analingus
>Can show a rapey moth pimp hump and grope Angel dust
>Can show people eating bodies, can show Vaggie's eye get ripped out of her head and be crushed into jelly
>Naked furry on a porn set? Nope, can't have an ass crack
This is getting too stupid to even parody, why the FRICK are western cartoon allergic to casual female nudity?
>hell is a horrible place
>no hitler
Maybe have people who lucifer directly tortures as his job-like the first circle Hitler is with cassius, brutus, being chewed by him.
>no Nero
>no rapists
>no true degenerates
>no nazi's
>no Ghengis Klan or Stalin or Misc Pot
>Lucifer, the original fallen one, is a b***h boy
>the worse we've seen is a pimp act like a real pimp
I'm so tired of this pussified view of hell. This is clearly an adult animation so it can easily coast into much darker topics and ppl.
Does anyone have a mega for the first four episodes? Trying to dig through archives for old links right now and it's a pain.
Seconding
It's fan-fricking-tastic, and anyone who says otherwise has no taste.
If you like this then you have no taste and almost certainly have a low IQ.
Fizz is on his way to save Hazbin
Nope, now he's been replaced by the superior version
lol probably the closest to a helluva character we will see in hazbin
Mimzy has a mammon tattoo as well Fizz is the biggest cash cow in the shared universe so gotta make it work somehow as well as Mammon
>imp more famous, respected and lucrative than you
I can see them being friendly but that's it Asmodeus/Mammon would never leave Fizzarolli alone with this monster
It's vapid, childish, trash made by a fat liberal beaner who wishes she was a California blond girl.
Imagine being a ancap and being sent to Viv hell.
It would be heaven.
>Adam is merc'd
>over the course of season 2 he is vindicated
>proven to be the good guy
>sinners can't be redeemed
>God knew this and judged them
>Em is stripped of her titles and heavenly powers
>cast down to hell
>experiences the full scope of the damned
>begs for a second chance
>God says no
>decides to go full sinner
>turns out the whole show was Heart of Darkness
>Em is used to show how fast one can fall
Kino
Would you sell your soul to her?
I would sell my soul my body and my mind
I have unironically already watched episode 5 over 15 times. I can't stop watching it, somebody please help me
Whenever I close my eyes I see visions of Alastor oh god
Stop being gay
what if i killed him? imagine him fat and white
>Whenever I close my eyes I see visions of Alastor oh god
Holy shit, same. I always see his smile in front of my inner eye randomly showing up
>Whenever I close my eyes I see visions of Alastor oh god
This is how I am but with Adam
Ok Lute
any good fanfiction of those two fricking?
Lucifer, Fizz, Stolas would've made better villains than what whatever they are now
Some doodles of Blitzo Pyro
Would be a fun thing to happen if they ever. ever. did the fun episodic murder for hire concept they heavily implied.
Alastor has probably seen Charlie nude.
He has magic demon eyes bro
He's seen her intestines if he wanted to
Alastor's eyeballs have been all over Charlie, inside and out.
I hate the creator of Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss but god I feel bad for the characters they have so much potential
I'm gonna be sad if in the future Charlie is known as only that girl from that mediocre series or that girl from the Verbalase meme
I like how people enjoy almost all the music, but the writing is garbage.
It makes Viv seem like an ideas person but she fails all the time at execution. And needs other people to carry her to success.
The entire show should be musical, like Cats
Maybe name a good musical, Cats is pretty trash, when it comes to the actual songs and story of its musical.
Shut up zoomer Cats is goated
So I heard Viv said in previous streams or something, that kids don't go to hell because they don't have good judgement like adults do, even if they were the brattiest ones in their lives. Anyone got proof of that or was that changed for the sake of drama for this show? Cause than Camille's kids and the appearance of that boy to back up Vaggie's angel theory contradicts it. Especially when also remembering Hellborn sinners are exempt from extermination and sinners become infertile after death.
So all sinners are infertile and only hellborns can make babies? Damn so that's why they frick so much. I guess characters like Alastor will never have a daughter and he has to settle for Charlie
Carmille's kids are obviously teenagers at the very least and the kid that got saved by Vaggie might be a hellborn from the cannibal colony (if true then that means Vaggie's sacrifice was futile kek)
The cannibals are hellborn?
According to the past streams, yes. Rosie is the only overlord confirmed to be hellborn.
Love how everything in this show needs to be explained OUTSIDE of the show.
If Adam is the first human, does that mean he's killing his own descendants?
Guess what the mask he wears allows him to do.
What? He's crying and that's the point of the mask is?
why does dream have untrustworthy looking eyes?
Because he's probably narcissistic, hides something like being pedo like all the minecraft youtubers or something or he's just autistic and acts weird maybe. You can see him angle his face in a weird way to look better and that's some mental illness indicator already
Oh right masks do that. It's like a magic armor that gets you high? Maybe angels need that if they live for eternity
> Oh right masks do that. It's like a magic armor that gets you high? Maybe angels need that if they live for eternity
Think of it more like Adam’s escapism from painful memories and reality. With Vaggie displaying how Adam truly feels under the mask (killing his own children).
The mask allows Adam to essentially get baked.
Yeah
what would mean that he and Lilith changed roles
Mythos Lilith is a demon who kills humans
Considering ALL of humanity are Adams children Lillith quite literally damned his children to do evil onto each other all the time while Adam only ever gets to see a few of them be good enough to reach Heaven. That he is this nice to Charlie is honestly saint worthy. The exterminations are honestly him having mercy by not making them have to suffer in Hell wich is forever.
ive watched 3 minutes so far from the first episode, is this Amazon-tier troonslop made for genderfluid tumblr escapees?
Close. It’s for the gay furry crowd.
They seem to be really rampant on Cinemaphile
obsessed
AHHHHH I WANT TO FRICK ADAM SO BAD
We know Lute we know
this show feels like it was written and directed by Mindy Kaling while on heroin and lsd
I don't get this about episode 6, if Sera is so afraid of Adam mentioning the extermination to everyone else in Heaven, why did she invite someone whose whole and known goal there was to ask very explicitly for that extermination to stop very likely in front of everyone in public courtroom she invited them too.
she was probably banking on being able to say 'lol what is she lying about now? typical devil' and kick her out, but adam blurting it out erased her ability to deny it.
>heaven is full of tate bros
>hell is full of shitlibs and homosexuals
WHERE DO THE COOL WAR CRIMINALS GO NIRVANA??
I always hated this thing but seriously someone needs to get that Hispanic b***h to listen to some NSBM or at least some BMSS
Only adam acts like a chud though
So in season 1, it’s established that Vox is the most powerful/influential of the Vees who has the most amount of respect in hell and technology that brainwashes people to his will.
And in this season, Viv wasn’t sure if there was a season 2, and she wanted to make it self-conclusive.
And in season 1, Alastor promises that he will change the status queue against Vox in particular.
Alastor also brings over an army of cannibals for an incoming war in season 1. Which thematically doesn’t fit if his enemy actually is Adam… And was instead Vox…
Do we have any confirmation whether demons and angels shit, canonically?
It would make sense for demons to have to shit but not angels
They are walking bags of shit, anon.
The hotel has toilets.
Niffty a shit
That'll have to be good enough proof.
Musical numbers still make me giggle when you think about 'em. All these people -- unprompted -- just start singing and everyone just sorta goes along with it, some even join in. The characters -- in universe -- without practice or planning, sing in time, in tune, and bounce off each other's verses. It's so impromptu and I love it
Yeah it's like the main characters are like little music boxes always knowing what to sing. I wish I could do that
Its a musical so singing gives you powers
>Characters I like most are Adam and Pentious
>Both are dying in the finale
Sort of kills my hope for the future when the two best characters are killed in the very first fricking season.
>tfw they have the same VA
Though I doubt they both die or at least it won't stick. She loves writing Adam. I'm worried for my snake boi though.
The plotting is kind of weak. They've wasted a lot of time on irrelevant characters and ignoring the core cast on an already fairly short and rushed season.
It kind of goes all over the place, and it feels like we're missing cut content.
Most of the voices are good, other than vegana.
Most of the songs are bangers, though there are a few duds.
Hopefully season 2 will make things a bit more cohesive.
Gay soundtrack should've been a Death Grips AMV with some inkling of a plot.
When you're enough of an oldgay to remember this fricking clown:
http://www.normalbobsmith.com/free/flyers/pfs.html
Though his urban anthropology was interesting:
https://normalbob.com/amazingstrangers/methods-of-a-peeper/
ironically yes I am down with that.
A God who can't (or wont) save everybody is worthless.
>same old midwittery on religion from over 20 years ago
The more things change, the more they stay the same:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Dress_Up
>The great Lord almighty, the father of all creation
>cant figure out how to keep everyone from suffering
kek dude is a failure, his only glory is the pain his children feel.
Like I said, midwit take.
>devolves to insulting
"How long, O simple ones, will you love your simple ways? How long will scoffers delight in their scorn and fools hate knowledge?
responding to knowledge of the problem of evil with insults isn't very noble of you Christcuck
Don't you love knowledge?
God literally calls you a fool. Hahahaha.
You are a Satancuck.
>calls me a cuck
isnt that a sin Christian? malicious insults and obscene sexual commentary?
doesn't sound like you handled my response with any grace. Your in sin.
Sounds like your are Satan's b***h tonight.
You openly war against us and get surprised when we righteously slap you and call you a loser and a worshipper of evil. Little viper. You will fear God.
>not even close to how it works
Ever heard of 'tough love'? Who else is famous for being loving, but uncompromising, even a little harsh?
Look at this Christian? a godless (non religious) man has more grace than you in debate.
Doesn't look well for your example as a Christian.
I didn't even insult you first. I insulted God.
>I insulted God.
And we would stone your ass for it back then. What part of “we love God” don’t you understand???
I'm not even religious, but yours is still a midwit take.
the problem is evil is midwit? I don't know of any solutions to the problem. So how would it be midwit?
Well consider this. If that's such a problem, why didn't everyone reach the same conclusion literal millennia ago and stop worshipping God?
You've never even stopped to really think about that have you? Maybe you want to look into that, before you think you have all the answers. Frickin' n00b.
Jesus Christ could literally come down from the heavens to slap him, and he still wouldn’t believe.
Atheist are legit insane, anon. I think it would be easier to convert Muslims.
I'm not religious, but I'm not some pseud redditor like that homosexual whose argument is so old it's literally a gag on an early Simpsons episode:
Like God said: “There is nothing new under the Sun”
God also coined terms of “life is short”, “the blind leading the blind”, “scapegoat”, “the skin of my teeth”, “an eye for an eye”, and many others.
>God also coined terms of “life is short”
Hippocrates is not God, you idolatrous filth.
For the ungodly said, reasoning with themselves, but not aright, Our life is short and tedious, and in the death of a man there is no remedy: neither was there any man known to have returned from the grave.
Yeah, and it also appears on Hallmark cards, but Hallmark didn't coin it either.
How old is King Solomon?
The book? It's deuterocanonical so very late BC/very early AD. After Hippocrates, certainly.
Matthew 1:17
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations
So… way way way way before Hippocrates.
>If you count the generations of Noah, lo the Earth is but 5000 years old
You should have said you were YEC right off the bat, I was talking to you as if you were a normal person.
If only there were some easy way to check that.
I'd call that a pretty good hit-rate considering how easy it is for shit to be misattributed. Go frick yourself pseud Atheist homosexual. Also you might want to look up the meaning of 'straining a gnat and swallowing a camel'.
>letting some moron MI algo tell him what to think
Eye for an eye predates the bible.
"Life is short" is the first three words of Aphorisms, you complete and utter clown.
Everyone is insane except the Seventh Day Adventist Christian Reform Movement (the only true religion). Every single other person in the world is either lying, mind-controlled by Satan, or clinically psychotic.
Yeah. It’s always like that. Mudfossil university was literally attacked by every university and scientist community to prove that this world prefers to serve Satan (the lie) over the Truth (God).
Why do you think Christ called himself “the Truth”?
Hahahaha I grew up seventh day and it’s a death cult more obsessed with the end of the world then any other Christian sect I’ve ever learned about.
The majority of people on this planet are simply not intelligent.
Proud Christcuck here
Natural evil, stuff like forest fires and hurricanes and plague, are disorder in the natural world that God allows and utilizes to carry out his plans. Sometimes he allows these things because human beings need to suffer in order to truly understand the value of the good things in their lives, as well as to give them the opportunity to grow and change. Other times he might allow the natural consequences of our actions to play out in order to punish us for our failures. Or he might allow destruction to make space for improved creation.
Human evil is the natural consequence of original sin and free will. God gives us the choice to act in accordance with his covenants and commands, or to act in a way that damages our relationship with him. The latter includes deliberately harming ourselves or others in an unjust manner through violence and theft. God allows this not because he is powerless to stop human suffering, but because it is more valuable to him that we choose to do good by forming a relationship with him by our own hand rather than him controlling our minds completely.
It's easy for us to point at how fricked up the world is and how senseless and extreme human suffering can be, and say "how could a loving God allow any of this?" Ultimately, it's a matter of whether or not you have faith that things will be made right in the end. And I do.
While I used to be a redditor atheist now turned eugenicist racist primitivist, I found good and evil are more human constructs we apply an all powerful force gave us the ability to make in our minds. God is inscrutable even if we had an eternity and more to understand it so trying to apply it creating good and evil seems like applying good and evil to a mass extinction event such as the meteor 65 million years ago.
The problem with the apple of knowledge is that mankind would define their own good and evil, which opposes God’s values.
things aren't made right in the end for most people.
most end up eternally suffering in the worst way possible according to your book.
As a Christian I know that faith and cooperation with God's grace is the one *guaranteed* path to salvation and eternal life in heaven.
But it is God and God alone that decides who he accepts into his kingdom. I can't make the determination of who is saved and who is damned myself, that would be arrogance.
All I can hope for is to live a good life devoted to building his kingdom here, and spread the good news that Christ has risen from the dead and will return to us one day.
That's pretty much what I meant by "all will be made right in the end," although you articulated it in a better way than I did, which I appreciate.
Even if your life sucks now and will continue to suck until you first die, you will be resurrected when the time comes, and your misfortune will turn to good fortune when Christ returns. What is 80 years in an eternal life?
me too.
What is with this Anon? What's with the weird dog sock thing? Do you jack off into that?
Why do you keep posting it?
he is not a sock. he is my fren. we watch TV together.
my baby
what's his name anon
based stuffed friend haver
Dirk.
You don't have to actually believe in a god to figure out the hypotheticals here. IF there's a God as per the Christian Bible, then you have an immortal soul, and IF you pass the 'test' that means any 'muh suffering' that happens in your mortal life doesn't amount to dick when you have the rest of eternity to not give a frick about it, (though you don't even have to do that since God Himself will wipe away ever tear the second you get there).
Why does God allow evil and suffering? He doesn't. That's why there's none in Heaven. He's just giving your imperfect stragglers a second chance to get your arse to Mars:
Doesn't necessarily mean God actually exists, but if one can't entertain the hypothetical and figure shit like that out, then one is literally moronic.
>He does allow evil and suffering, but it's fine because it evens out to approaching zero in the long run (provided you join his club)
Well, it's better than most apologetics I've heard.
No it started at zero. Man fricked that up.
?t=97
He could have smoked us right off the fricking planet, (and almost did), but you're whining about getting one more chance before He restores perfection - the very universe you're complaining about not existing. The one you otherwise wouldn't be allowed into because you're currently part of the problem?
>muh suffering
Ever taken your dog to the vet?
I take it back, it's about on par with most apologetics.
Nope, you're the one with the tired old arguments. You're anti-religious indoctrination by other butthurt reddit-tier pseuds actually prevents you from actually thinking things through - even considering the possibility.
I didn't make any arguments. More importantly, you should know that - you call me anti-religious and no anti-religious argument has been made in that reply chain, right back to Proud Christcuck. So who are you talking to?
>complaining that people misidentified you on an anonymous imageboard.
Do anongays really?
No that's normal, but who is he misidentifying me as? Charitably he misclicked a quote somewhere, else he has some other person dwelling on his mind.
You're not wrong, God is beyond a 7 dimensional being who has greater concerns than one human. However, no one actually thinks that suffering is great. It really sucks. Otherwise, there would be no Christians in power to enforce Christian virtues. Like, they say that wars and illnesses are part of his plan yet they want to prohibit abortion, puberty blockers, and euthanasia for causing suffering.
A Christian telling them to ignore their own negative experience about the world in favor of adopting their own negative experience about it in the future makes them unconvinced.
It's almost as if their beliefs lack any rigorous internal consistency.
Imagine being so moronic you criticise Christianity for 'lacking internal consistency' for wanting to ban abortion and euthanasia. Don't even get me started on puberty blockers.
Yeah, better to believe 'consistent' shit like men can become women because men and women are the same, except when they're not, so CALL ME MA'AM bigot!
ffs you people look insane even comparted to the most rabid Christian zealot.
>yeah well how 'bout them trannies
Apropos of nothing? If you're that desperate to talk about them I'm sure there are threads and people out there more than happy to oblige.
>Human evil is the natural consequence of original sin and free will.
Free will doesn't exist in a scenario with an omnipotent, omniscient deity. He knew how things would go for you before you ever did anything.
If you believe is nigh-omnipotent and nigh-omniscient(rather than completely omnipotent and omniscient), fair enough.
The Bible itself says he designed some people purely to be damned.
I don't really see how God's omniscience is passively deterministic? I think there are broad strokes that are inevitable but that He leaves it to us to figure out the rest, then works with what we give Him. So regardless of how things play out, Christ will come back, but it's still up to us if we want to cooperate with His grace. If we refuse that's on us but it won't change the big picture.
If he knows before we are created that we are damned, then he already knows your choices and clearly intended for us to go to hell. Full omniscience makes for determinism.
>baby's first philosophy
Basic b***h take. have a nice day.
Hazbin or Helluva Boss?
helluva 1st season was something else. Then everything started resolving around gay and furry and fanservice gay furries. I have to go with helluva
I JUST FRICKING WALKED IN ON MY 50YEAR OLD DAD WATCHING THIS SHIT ON THE TV IM GOING TO FRICKING KILL MYSELFFF
first time i ever experienced secondhand cringe before
There's no breasts in this program, why would he watch any of it?
Who's his favorite character
Does he like it?
Adam my beloved
I told him to cut that shit off before i shoot the sum b***h tv off the wall.
Only a matter of time before he calls a family meeting and tells you and your mother that he's decided to live as a woman.
connect with your father, you jerk
hes taken a weird abrupt shitty turn where he watches alot of tiktok/instigram normalgay media and i had basically told him i dont want to talk about that shit, but this is the end result of ignoring it.
>be me
>be 50+ Dad
>be literally made this gif
>be haz entire Hazbin folder full of this shit
Deal with it homosexuals.
That's gayer then being a gay.
Don’t troon out
Actually I'm more worried about my son. He just came out of his room, saw me watching Hazbin, sperged out, and went back into his room and shut the door saying something about killing himself. Always has been a bit of a homosexual, (all the MLP posters in his room made me wonder too). Probably my fault for not beating him enough. Going to kick him out of the house and disown him tomorrow anyway.
Does your son also use Cinemaphile?
I don't know, but I did put this on his phone so he'll have something to listen to tomorrow when he leaves:
dad if you don't stop watching those gay cosplayers on tiktok im going to shoot you in your sleep
Grown ass homie
my pops was watching hunter x hunter last time, I think he forgot to close it before I got in. He is 65
He acts like he got into a nasty stash of porn.
I really wanted to like episode 6, but the important story beats getting done through song was painful to experience. It's sad the writers felt they had to do it this way. Lute is hot. I'm shipping her with Vaggie. Charlie is shippable with everyone, apparently. Episode 5 was pretty great, after I got over the fact that Lucifer is a sad sack of shit played for laughs.
I'm pretty sure this show is ending on a cliffhanger this season, even if they probably weren't sure if a season 2 was ordered.
>Lute is hot.
Agreed
>I'm shipping her with Vaggie.
Vile and Blasphemous
I can't blame him
Messy hate-fricking when?
I kind of wished she was the black chick one in the fan art. At least something interesting to change up design-wise given Lute is just albino Raven. Christ, her shows do feel not out of place on Toonami back in 2003 and they look like they came from that time period.
I wished her LED face weren't a mask, she was was more visually interesting and enigmatic with the idea of that being her actual face imo
yeah...
>See Lute finally getting a big bump in popularity
Yeah!
>98% of her new fanarts are all with her new bland human-looking face
...
normalhomosexualry is a mental desease
I also thought they were automatons of some kind, sinless since they have no flesh to commit sin. Weirdly Steven Universe's Gem Homeworld is what I thought Viv would depict Heaven as due to the contrasting orderly crystalline plane to Hell's chaotic fleshy plane.
Why does the show act like Charlie succeeded in redeeming a single sinner
I mean yay Angel Dust was kinda nice to his friend and stopped taking hard drugs (which charlie somehow knew), the frick about that means he's now heaven worthy? Instead the show just skips over this to make Heaven look like meanies who won't ever give anyone a second change, only to then also reveal they can't even do it!
I don't think they went that far. Charlie was clear she was simply showing off AD to prove he's at least on the path to self improvement. To show redemption could be possible
Did you miss Emily's entire speech about how "she was right, Sera"?
The one and only thing they undoubtedly proved is that the criteria for sorting souls into heaven or hell is an unknown.
Is it wrong that I find Adam to be the best character?
Even though he's like, the only guy they're trying to make 100% unsympathetic alongside Valentino. He and Lute are fun as frick.
He's an entitled shit that loves the sound of his own voice. He seems annoying as frick to be around, I don't understand what people like about him.
Contrarianism, because he's a dudebro antagonist in a show made by lesbians. I wish they'd made him the entertaining and funny kind of butthole, like Blitzo in his better-written moments, but he doesn't get any good lines.
Which is weird because there is just so much fricking nuance you could have with this guy. Hell here's some unique elements for Adam you could play on:
-He is Charlie's mom's ex and Charlie's dad literally stole his first girl from him
-Charlie's dad then proceeded to tempt his second wife into sin, thereby irrevocably fricking creation itself and dooming untold numbers of his descendants to hell
-He's then made the guy in charge of killing said descendants
Like goddamn, he's the perfect tier 1 antagonist for a 1st season. Refusing to give Charlie a chance not just cause he doesn't believe in her idea, but because she's Charlie MORNINGSTAR, daughter of the guy who personally double ruined his life and of the woman who dumped him.
That’s because Vox is the true season 1 villain that puppeting Adam and the exorcist from the masks they’re wearing. So Viv is banking more on making Vox an actual opposing villain over Adam, and shocking the audience with a stupid plot twist. Just like with Lilith (Eve in disguise).
The voices in my head told me that as well, anon stop coping that Adam won't die
Why do you have demons in your head?
In all seriousness, why would an overlord want to wipe out their own underlings.(for a lack of a better word). Unless they fear being usurped. Or does overpopulation bother them as well. Which to me doesn't make sense
Vox is a control freak that wants to be on top of everything. So getting to control the exterminations is a huge bonus to him.
> why would an overlord want to wipe out their own underlings
gee I dunno. Ask our overlords why they are trying to murder white people
He's unapologetic about who he is and revels in who he is. He's basically a "Pure Evil" bad guy trope https://youtu.be/1-XprjlATEo?si=CLsHn0gxmHJwk6uj
Yeah, he's against our Protagonist Charlie and company, but he's having so much fun in his work that you can't help but enjoy watching him enjoy himself.
>Hot as frick though
>He's unapologetic about who he is and revels in who he is.
Didn't he get nervous and look to the seraphim for confirmation about why he was in heaven?
Yes, he doesn't wanna admit *something* because he got a talking to by Sera to keep his mouth shut about Exterminations or never really had to think about *why* he's in Heaven. One could see it as the crack of his 3rd Act Breakdown, the way the protagonists can crack his veneer.
Taking him at face value: he's in Heaven so that makes him a Winner. In fact, he was the *first* one into Heaven
>that makes him the best
Yes, we the audience knows he's full of shit but he the character does not care. He's Adam, the original dick, the Dick Master, all other dicks descend from him, and he's in Heaven so he must be worthy of being in Heaven. That's really all he cares about... from what we've seen. People have their theories about the LED masks, but I try to take the story at face value until I'm told otherwise by the writers
> but I try to take the story at face value until I'm told otherwise by the writers
With the stunts they’ve pulled on Adam’s wife, Adam himself is going to have something similar. Like, you think he’s a big goofy hypocrite, but then the twist is unveiled and you see a completely broken man that is devastated with losing Eve and nearly his entire family to sin. So devastated by the losses, he purposely made himself super stupid and incompetentto forget about it. Turning himself into Joe Biden.
In Eve’s case, it’s about being blamed for eating the apple. But she ends up being a massive… puppet controlled by Roo.
>With the stunts they’ve pulled on Adam’s wife
You mean talking about how she's free spirited and fell in love with Lucifer? Went missing 7 years ago? Or Eve eating the apple? Are these stunts shown in the show or is this all "podcast, fan art, schizo" nonsense?
No. Eve. You will need to hold your breathe for this, Eve stolen Lilith’s identity and you see her in episode 6. Her plan is to cause a war between heaven and hell. And she is possessed by Roo, the root of all evil.
Schizo babble, gotcha
I'm just gonna watch and enjoy the ride, you have fun coming up with theories and whatnot
That’s not a theory. That’s a leak.
Even worse because we have no context so it's all just schizo babble until we're shown the grand master plan
Which is… Hazbin Hotel is about last-minute character change twist?
Source on this Roo shit and specifically why Root of All Evil isn't called Rae.
He is a great character, he's basically an entertaining 'jack black' archetype that's a villain instead of an underdog hero.
I hated the idea of blatant heaven villains but now he and the Lute are my favorites. Sera and the Charlie clone still annoy me
prostitute!
I think what I like of this show over Helluva Boss is that (mostly) it didn't take itself that seriously, even in darker moments. Outside of Valentino abusing Angel, the rest is played in a very campy way. Even creepy evil Alastor moments, while not played for laughs, have a more playful attitude than most of Helluva. There's way too many whiny and crybaby moments on that show, especially in season 2, than in most episodes of Hazbin.
I posted this in another thread that immediately died. Any thoughts?
Probably not. However, consider the following:
Adam and Eve being in heaven makes no sense because they are the 1st sinners. Their entire gimmick is being kicked the frick out of Heaven and the burden of their frickup being passed to their children.
Goddamn the source material for this shit is literally the most discussed book in history how hard was it to make it make a bit more sense.
>source material
Pretty sure it's up for debate, since heaven/hell isn't even a thing in Genesis, that's a New Testament concept.
Most people don't even realize that Lucifer practically doesn't even exist in the bible. A very small minority have actually read the damn thing, most media just takes from divine comedy which had Adam becoming an Angel and Paradise Lost
CharChar?
Charmander? Charmeleon? Charizard?
Niffty sure took Valentino for a ride.
Anyone got a drive or something to the latest two episodes? I can't find them on other pirate sites.
It has some amusing characters, some entertaining songs, and it's art style at least isn't complete shit like Amphibia or Owl House. But no, it's not good. The writing is really BAD.
The big twist is that Heaven does NOT know how dead humans get into Heaven was the stray that broke the camels back if you ask me. So much bad writing with a stupid premise and this was the build up? That Heaven doesn't have rules and guidelines to see who deserve to get into Heaven? This is worse than Helluva Boss. At least Helluva Boss is meant to be comedic, Hazbin Hotel is meant to be dramatic.
The only reason to watch Hazbin Hotel is to hear a few nice songs and see some characters like Alastor, Husk, Pentious and the Overlords from Hell. Charlie herself is the WORST of the main characters. Her whole inexplicable Disney Princess but from Hell personality is idiotic. Vaggie is also shit since she only exists to be a one note dyke. The show is a cemented 6/10. Used to be higher but the huge plot twist about Heaven really brought it down. This is trash. And once the novelty wears off you know that people will look badly on retrospect about Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss while we're at it).
>Her whole inexplicable Disney Princess but from Hell personality is idiotic
Funny because it could have been explained by her being raised by her doofus Angel dad who's still fundamentally a good person, but no, actually they barely know each other and it was Lilith that raised her.
Even worse they introduced Emily the angel girl in the recent episode. Emily is Charlie but with a GOOD reason for being so kindly and naive because she was all her life one of the employees of Heaven so of course she's surrounded by good kind civil people. She doesn't see cannibals on the street killing and eaten others like Charlie does for example. Emily being the protagonist would make sense because of her background. Charlie sees the worst of the worst and still insists that somehow
"These are my people! I must save them" which is nonsense.
Look at how many sinners heard that Heaven wants to kill them even faster and how they still will NOT go to Charlie's Hotel. The sinners do NOT care. Charlie's personality is too annoying as she ignores the reality in front of her eyes.
>Heaven doesn't have rules and guidelines to see who deserve to get into Heaven?
They don't have the power to set rules and guidelines for who gets into heaven. That's ostensibly God's job, a.k.a. Sir Not-Appearing-in-this-Film, and just because they preach their own moral code doesn't mean they have any more information about Him than is equally available to everyone else. Much like the situation is in real life.
I didn't like Angel Dust until this episode. Such a good fricking scene.
Had to hate the show once Alastor cross dressed as a Nun. That was wrong even for Hell. To cross dress as a symbol that spits on Hell itself.
I'm amazed at how many people, certainly the majority of posters, can't see that this isn't a theology lecture. Heaven and hell are a setting to talk about things that exist in the real world.
Christians and people raised by Christians often have difficulty separating the conceptual use of Western mythology from a specific theological attack against their particular sect and religion. Having a personal religious saviour apparently encourages you to take religion personally.
Banishing Adam in Hell is like leaving an atomic bomb. He’s literally Lucifer or maybe above tier. They’ll probably force Lucifer to live with him.
There's no way Adam is in league with one of the big boys like Luci if he has to knowtow
to a generic Seraph.
Adam respects heavenly authority like he does in the garden of Eden. He however has literal golden wings, and by biblical lore, he is supposed to be above any of the angels. There are many seraphs, but there is only one golden winged being, Adam. The image of the golden being above all angels.
The amount of shit people claim is "biblical lore" is unbelievable.
Why do you think Jesus Christ made the water kneel to him and his apostle?
The bible has a handy convention for when you want to establish something as lore, it goes book chapter verse.
Well yeah, Christianity is 2000 years old and the popular perception of it has been clouded by like a thousand years of basically-atheistic fanfiction like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy, syncretization, and bowdlerizing.
If Viv wasn't b***hmade she'd have the seven archangels, God, Adam, Eve, etc etc instead of a bunch of OCs.
You can tell any story, but it's frustrating that she chooses both. It's funny to rape Sir P but NOT AD. One character who is signicantly less horrible and doesn't deserve it, but AD Oh he's into that shit and it's "hot".
His design is so ugly, no idea why people find him frickable.
Adam is literally not wielding any weapons and he straight up punches people.
where are michael, raphael, gabriel the like
I need more fanart of vaggie being cucked. It makes me happy inside.
if the theory that they're twins is true, then she'll be enjoying a threesome in the finale.
Vaggie getting double teamed by Emily and chaggie when.
>Vaggie getting fricked 24/7 by Charlie and Emily(after marriage)
Lucky c**t....
who said it is before marriage?
>Emily becomes fallen angel
>Charlie gets to teach her all kind of kinky shit.
you really think they is going to wait for marriage?
>straight into the action
I should've thought of that
He should forget Lilith and Eve and love me.
No! he's mine!
Ok Lute
They are made for each other
Adam being stuck at the Hotel as his own personal Hell-within-Hell would be funny.
I remember on I once met this 23 year old Law Student from Florida who was fricking obsessed with show. He was a neoconservative Baptist who regularly shilled for israel in political debates, and was strangely active in a discord server for a roblox game while I knew him.
strange thing was that he was exceptionally good at debatemonkey shit
> because Adam is based on Viv's ex.
Any source?
>Will never happen because Adam is based
fixed
>heaven is run by two OCs instead of anything like metatron, michael, or gabriel
yikesaroonie!
Michael is gonna pop up I guarantee it and is just gonna be Lucifers angtsy twin brother to fuel incest yaio bait
Why is it a musical? The episodes are barely watchable as it is, then they break into song and holy frick what an atrocity
If someone doesn't fricking post emily and charlie fricking soon I will be very upset.
I thought this woman was a lesbian? How the frick do you put this many man hours in writing gay california slop if you're not LGBTsomething?
I miss their Pilot designs. The golden age of this series and fandom was in 2019/2020/2021. We're long past it now.
Why does vaggie look like a troon? Is it the nose? The choice of clothes?
>Hey Anon.
Unironically the most romantic moment in the whole show kek. Bravo vivz.
I think your right, That's literally the most intimate we've seen two characters be with each other on screen so far lmao
>*Wets panties*
You have just broken up with Lute and she's crying, saying how much she loves you and that she'll kill you if you leave her. How do you escape?
DISAPPEAR INTO THE NIGHT
Thread culture.
>"IM NOT PAYING MY CHILD SUPPORT LUTE, I WILL NEVER PAY"
I don't even like Vergil that much, but he's far to based for this setting.
>broken up with Lute
no
why the frick would I break up with that?
smash my face into hers and dick her down right there. Telling her I love to see her angry.
Dangit, I wanted to post that Lute. Oh well, anyway
>You have just broken up with Lute
Would never happen and I would appreciate it if you do not spread lies about our relationship
Why the hell would I break up with this cutie... I hope she kicks my ass and drags me back screaming and then proceeds to "rape" me.
does anyone have a link to rips
I need to see my new husbando in 1080p
haha no seriously guys who has the link
DOWNLOAD!
UTORRENT!
AND GO TO THE BAY!
Do you want his PC to get full of viruses?
but surely SOMEONE has link
Oh sorry, wrong one https://youtu.be/c_H3MWVx6JU?si=Pn6PUDvfEEHxi5cx
Here you go 🙂
https://www.amazon.com/Hazbin-Hotel-Season-1/dp/B0CLMPQTJ2?wi=lr6zhkpa_0&ref_=slsr_GMEShp_HZBN_Search_m_t_m_vn_lr6zhkpa_0&pd_rd_w=XHTTe&content-id=amzn1.sym.dc24a671-e771-4dcb-8318-cca51105c2a8:amzn1.sym.dc24a671-e771-4dcb-8318-cca51105c2a8&pf_rd_p=dc24a671-e771-4dcb-8318-cca51105c2a8&pf_rd_r=N7W2DY5A9B7GV04S9XVM&pd_rd_wg=MqMIH&pd_rd_r=3055e28e-4475-4423-bf0c-c40766a60d53&qid=1706526677
wwwwwwwwwwww
You WILL support the show by getting an Amazon prime subscription!
You WILL do as the T.V. commands!
Yes Vox
Anything you say Vox
I love you Vox
?si=5KZ3--QO_CkJ6pHq
Dirk seems to love it too.
>Oculus
Do you unironically sit around with that thing strapped to your head while shit-posting and watching shit?
perhaps.
He did it in some prior thread. Mildly curious how comfortable it is, or isn't.
Its actually more comfortable than my Oculus Go from 2018
Oh No No No
Emily!
Now everyone switches to Team Heaven???
Do they die?
Anons please stop taking Hazbin Hotel as a criticism of Christianity
Imagine Alastor doing the 'daddy' shit initially purely to annoy Lucifer but then Charlie falling for him as a result and then him getting harassed like this. By someone he can't just attack or tell to frick off no less.
He's an attention prostitute so he'd love it.
Viv trying to paint this as "fatherly relationship to Charlie" was so dumb.
Lucifer looks like a guy who's pissed and wants to murder his daughter's boyfriend (Alastor).
After he see's Alastor putting his hand on Charlie's shoulder when he first enters the hotel Lucifer is basically overjoyed to find out that his daughter is currently experimenting with lezzing out.
There's no other way to interpret the rest of the Alastor/Lucifer interactions with that context as anything else but the 'female leads father hates the male lead' trope.
She give him sensual ear rubs.
Why is she fat
i wish her helmet was her actual face
If Lute was such a cute without her mask, i can only imagine how Adam looks like a Gaston chad dickmaster.
He reminds me of a douchebag version of PC Principal
I bet he will take off his mask in the next episodes.
Now she's doomed to more potrayed as some albino Raven rip-off going fowards...
She's far to militanta to be confused for a Raven rip-off
Wait? How?
>mpreg
Ehhhh
Lute's "holy spear" is just that powerful.
Human population didn't produce by itself
>be you, a recently condemned sinner who has woken up in hell in an unfamiliar body (fill in the blank on how you look)
>you're hungry but you have no money to buy food
>doesn't matter since you can't die of starvation but it still hurts
>have to navigate the streets of hell carefully or else you'll end up cannibalized, mutilated, or dead all over again just to painfully regenerate
>every day is a nightmare and no matter what you try you can't seem to pull it together to get a steady job or find a place to stay
>this is way worse than your living life
>finally manage to run errands for a shopkeeper that is way too nice to be in hell and she pays you enough for a night on the town
>frick it you won't starve so you deserve to let loose and get drunk for the first time in forever
>enter night club where you finally take time to gawk at just how sexy some demons are
>unsure if you yourself are sexy in this form
>Valentino happens to catch a glance at you standing in the corner with a drink, looking as closed as a clam
>He knows fresh meat when he sees it
>Has one of his girls call you over to where he's sitting
>Wow he looks important, surrounded by so many beautiful and handsome sinners and smoking some sort of fancy red smoke cigar
>You approach him and offer a timid, "h-hello..."
>He motions for you to come closer and touches your face tenderly
>Your heart is pounding
>Despite his razor sharp teeth, he's dangerously handsome and he's wearing a gentle expression
>He says, "you poor little beauty, you...did you just get here?"
>You nod
>"It's so scary here, isn't it? You look utterly exhausted...here, sit with me."
>You sit next to him and he pulls his coat over you to keep you warm
>This is the first time anyone has ever shown any concern for you out of the goodness of their heart
>He asks you to tell him all about yourself
>Acts genuinely interested, tells you that hell is no place for a girl with your beauty to be wandering alone and that if you will allow it he'll make sure you're taken care of
>Takes you home with him and makes sweet love to you
>Actually better than any sex you ever had on Earth
>Invites you to stay in his apartment
>Ask if this makes you his girlfriend
>He says, "of course"
>Makes sure you're fed every day and comfortable, but doesn't take you out with him every night
>Refuses to elaborate what he does for work but gives you some tips on surviving the streets
>One night asks if he can record having sex with you
>You agree and find it kinda romantic
>He lavishes you with gifts, kisses you all the time and spoils you, gives you unending orgasms every night
>The next week asks you to try drugs with him
>Insists it's nothing addictive and he knows you aren't someone who could get hooked, it's just a little fun
>Get absolutely fricked up with him
>This turns into a three day binge for you
>Feel ashamed after the fact and apologize to him, he's understandably disappointed
>"I really didn't think you were like that"
>He starts acting distant but of course he had given you extra doses, even forcing you to take more and more although you don't remember
>You swear to not touch any substances again and can't apologize enough
>You love him so much and you are afraid of losing him
>You don't want to be alone again in hell
>Ask if there's anything you can do
>"You could help me with my work."
>Well okay.
>"But first you have to sign a contract with me. It's a formality for the studio."
>Well...okay.
>"And understand that I will own your soul."
>A little intimidating, but that's fine.
>Sign the contract and smile at him, thinking that you are finally rebuilding some progress
>A chain appears around your neck and wrapped around his wrist and he slams you to the floor
>Tells you that it took long enough to get you to sign yourself off
>Informs you that you're going to make him a frickton of money making porn for him
>His investors already liked what he recorded of you weeks ago
>You are in disbelief, ask him, "I thought you were my boyfriend? I thought...this was a relationship."
>"I'm a lot of frickups' boyfriend and I'm in a lot of relationships--business relationships. Did you think all of this was for free?!"
>From this day forward you are Valentino's bawd and he makes you do the most degrading sex acts imaginable on camera
>The worst part is that you still love him and still crave to see that soft side of him again
>Every now and then he grants it to you--just a slice of compassion enough that it keeps you compliant
>You become obsessed with him and realize that this is now your forever until one day the executioners strike you down
>But that would never happen, right?
>Val will protect you so long as you're one of his favorite toys
fricked up of you to post my sexual fantasies for all of Cinemaphile to see anon
Tfw I wrote it specifically for you anon <3
>Adam's a loser
>Lucifer's a loser
What the frick? So what's Lilith cooking? Has Eve shown up yet?
>>Adam's a loser
Is he?
he seems chill
>There are Hazbin Hotel shills on this board right now
>I was never contacted about the job opportunity
FUUUUUUCK. It wanted to be paid to shitpost and act offended by rightful criticism.
listen anon you have to stop pretending amazon gives a shit if Cinemaphile dislikes it's show
I'm not Jeff bezos btw
I love it
This and one other anime are the only media I'm watching this Spring
IF SNEED IS FOREVER THEN FEED MUST BE A LIE
it clearly isnt heaven because
>there are no crosses
>God or Jesus are nowhere to be seen
>Everyone is dropping f bombs
>basedence
>big gay men
If Jesus is around then hanging crosses seems in poor taste.
They're already alluding to God being the biggest bad
Imagine the seething when he's revealed as a cursing manchild
>They're already alluding to God being the biggest bad
Before or after they talked about His foot fetish?
lord have mercy.
>God or Jesus are nowhere to be seen
Saint Pete is there so its already over
IF REDNECKS CAN DO WHATEVER AND STILL EAT APPLE PIE
Snakebros we stay winning
whenever i see Sir Pentius i see Nishiki as a demon
Why is Pent so small?
i'm convinced he doesn't know what sex even is other than people who like each other does it. also i hope him and cherri end up together because a socially awkward introverted autist and a wild extroverted adhd party girl could be a really fun pairing
See the only reason I disagree is that the egg minions have to come from SOMEWHERE, and even if that somewhere is a lab it implies he knows what a FRICKING EGG IS and where it comes from.
A fish boi scientist.
so since he's a scientist he most likely knows sperm + egg = offspring but that's the extend of it
You think if Sir Pentious dies, will Charlie actually go Super Demoness transformation on CHADam?
filename.
Actually minor fix, I forgot the dashes down the lines of the cross on the top-right.
Even Futurama and the fricking Cuphead show had a better hell and devil, just saying.
How do Charlie and Alastor have sex
They don't, angels/demons don't have genitals
It's true, they just have more faces.
Just slugged through the first six episodes and It gets better but I still everything that happens is so forced but the animation and songs are good. Sad they didn’t keep the pilot cast but it’s not bad. I just don’t get why Adam is in Heaven isn’t he casted out of the garden of Eden forever in the Bible
I love how for this to work heaven has to be moronic (and somehow allow pointless sex). Also God is still ok with it so.... Heaven simply comes off as based
So what's Vaggie's backstory, I know Adam left her in hell but why. Did she betray the angels or did she start having doubt about exterminations?
she let a kid not get exterminated.
Why is her mask off.
Because the screen writer is a fricking idiot.
She removed it to symbolize her shedding the mask of the bad exterminators, she could see clearly. And so the audience could see it was her under the mask.
Except she literally comes through the portal with the rest of them, takes it off for no reason and then proceeds to kill a sinner or two and then corners the kid in an alley, it was dumb.
Yes, it was dumb. Oh well
I mean the pacing of the show is god awful, but that scene construction was unusually fricking terrible. Its like they really wanted it out of the way so we can get the funny interaction with Lute and Adam.
She's probably killed thousands of sinners prior to this and only now she's run into a seemingly innocent sinner child (in hell) and Lute immediately sperged out and wasted a valuable soldier
her angelic spear kills lute in the final episode of season 1
t. watched the full season
Nice try the real leaker already told us Adam and Sir Pentious die
do we have the episodes yet?
Well now I'm confused because the song in episode 6 made it sound like she's a betrayer.
>She should know not to trust angels
No I don't watch the series as I don't have an Amazon account
She didn't tell Charlie about being an angel, that's her betrayal
Never thought about it that way
go to wcofun homie
better yet
open yandex and search watch ___ whatever the frick
free sites still exist but google hides the shit
The autistic wendigo that moved in with me can't possibly be this cute!
>Why anon? Why did you do it?
I needed the money baby
For your love, Charlie
because it was funny
>A...Alastor *sob*...You...You *sob* betrayed us?....
>I...I...*sob*...I thought you actually cared about u-
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Would be unironically kino if he did that, and its revealed that he was actually working for Roo the whole time, and not Rosie/Lilith
The tumblars are already triggered by Alastor flexing on Husk, its over
Yeah this could be the issue, They may not accept Alastor doing a heel-turn like that because that would blow up all their ships. And Vivzie is known to pander to her most autistic and horny fans.
>Implying it wouldn't be an Itachi-Sasuke forced betrayal and before he dies doing a muh heroic sacrifice in the final episode Alastor wouldn't reveal he actually did care about everyone at the Hotel and so forth.
Charlie and her tard bf
>Getting eaten by Alastor
>WHOLE.
That one voregay/Alastorgay probably got an anime nosebleed watching this part.
Al's body is for Charlotte only.
There's an Alastor/voregay?
See here....
Anon I'm not a voregay
Vore is like being swallowed whole specifically not just being eaten
Besides because the character is in hell she regenerates I don't really like guro when it's permanent
But that scene did have me wetting my panties thanks for asking
Imagine sitting down for a candle-light three-course dinner with Alastor....
>eating cuts from every variety of sinner and demon available and contemplating which ones taste the best
>coating some of them in hot sauce
So romantic!
And thanks, I'll try to get the next chapter out soon I'm having a lot of fun with it
That's also a good fic you wrote btw.
I have been hit with intense hyperfixation for this dumb ass show
it's embarrassing, why this show out of all things that will inevitably piss me off?
Been thinking about Vox all night now and can't find any reader insert fanfic that isn't some form of troonery
Oh god damn it.
We can... roleplay..
Roleplaying is basically writing a fanfic together
Maybe anon maybe...how well do you think you could play him?
Please consider a less humiliating means of escapism from your unfulfilling life, like alcohol.
don't say this shit, you don't know how fricking close i am to joining a roleplay discord to satiate my need for the moth to hurt me.
>RP discord
Now I'm tempted too and I haven't dabbled in RP since high school
Sis we are so fricked I don't know why I'm down this bad it is insane
QRD? I never used a chatbot before
Also no girls here want to frick Angel at least pay attention
Seriously morons, if you're that desperate for simulated human interaction you might as well use chatGPT. Or actually commission porn. It'll be more fulfilling that LARPing with other autists for sure, especially if their headcanon for the homosexual spider doesn't match yours.
>chatGPT
I've seen some impressive stuff from there... is it like beta.character or do you have to do the work yourself?
>simulating human interaction with an AI instead of rping with other humans
>forming connection with a bot instead of other literal human beans
Anons don't need to roleplay or whatever, they need to touch grass
If life has brought them to this point, I have to assume they're tried and failed miserably.
>'Cause here’s the thing
>To know how it ends
>And still begin to sing it again
>As if it might turn out this time
>I learned that from a friend of mine
?si=iK2eVUhjGOWDSVSM
What you say is right, and that's why I wish they'd sing that song again. Because maybe it might turn out this time
>acting like performatively disgusted schoolgirls over roleplaying
Khhv think they have a say on human interaction
Listen if you want to shit in a cup right now and drink it, there's nothing I can do to stop you. What I can do is point out that eating shit out of a cup is fricking gross, and question what if anything you get out of it.
>immediately thinks of scat points unprovoked
Coming up with plot points is a valuable skill in narrative building and rping I'll give you that
I could try murder or cannibalism instead, but folks are jaded these days so only the really gross shit makes the same point about LARPing as a gay spider
>unusually
>UNUSUALLY
>for Hazbin
No.
>LARPing as a gay spider
You are so, so innocent.
He would not fricking say that
Maybe you're just not his type, anon
It isn't just him turning me down it's how he's speaking it's ooc
If he turned me down ic he'd be like, "frick no! You think you can wave a smoking hot body in my face and I'll just fold for you? I can have a whole on my dick any time I want."
i'm gonna make your night.
https://beta.character.ai/chat?char=y5lx2mswc2IwtpP029UWEquOne_H9FuFSZG7W-NXogM
Wow he is already horny soon as I got there nice
So were Sera/Adam/Lute just hoping Charlie wasn't going to mention the exterminations at all?
Adam and Lute clearly don't care about the cat being out the bag and Sera is just moronic I guess
Lute clearly has plans of her own, doesn't she? I get a bad feeling about her.
Oh she's bad alright
would you do a sssex with him?
>Alastor turning into the femboy love interest of the lesbian
What the frick.
Alastor isn't a femboy outside of fan-art, But yes, There's really no other way to interpret episode 5 as anything else but Charlastor bait.
Well I haven't seen a single second of the show, proper. I saw the pilot and one musical number and that's it.
Here's the Episode 5 song. This is what CharlastorGODS are celebrating over.
That's the musical number I saw.
if he didn't want to be the femboy love interest he shouldn't have put on the fricking nun dress, he's practically asking for it
Do you guys remember when Vox dressed as a priest?
i fricking love this song i just wish there was a version without mimzy
ok I guess
I'm not sure I'll able to watch this without instantly seeing it as a worse hybrid of Crazy Ex Girlfriend and The Good Place.
>heaven is... le good
wow, very original
>Heaven is... a place on Earth?
Bravo, Belinda Carlisle
How many levels of irony are you on?
Zero, I'm stone cold sincere rn bro.
You are like a little baby. WATCH THIS!
R-E-I-N-C-A-R-N-A-T-I-O-N
>REEE in car nation
Damn, you cyclists are mental.
Adams design is so dumb, what is he even supposed to look like?
An imp, aka a slave.
Well apparently the ecks dee cuhrahzee clown faces are just masks, so for all we know he could still look like an actual human under his.
>But he eats through it-
Doesn't prove SHIT, it's Heaven, it could be magic or some shit
It grew on me, but even then he looks like a reskin of Blitzo and Mammon
>it's another "Hazbin TOTALLY has a deeper plot going on bro, it's MORE than just shitty rushed gags!" episode
it's all so tiresome
it's like watching Charlie Brown trying to kick that football from Lucy's hands over and over again
They should show us Charlie's angelic uncles
They should show us Charlie's angelic wife every episode from now on. When she's not in an episode the other characters should be asking, "where's Emily?"
>The frick? Why's the strawberry pimp a blueberry today?
>Oh? Oh that shit! Yeah, He's probably in a bad mood or something, Thinking about his 'momma' that i heard him crying about into his pillow that one time.
This sounds like a musical piece Adam would sing to Charlie if HH was a tad more subtle
?feature=shared
WHERE ARE EPISODES 7 AND 8
Now that I think about it they had to make angel dust a gay man with male pimp. Any other combination would have people too horny to take it seriously
If Vivzie was a better writer I'd cite Wallace from Scott Pilgrim as a way to write a horny gay guy who can also be other things. But this is Vivzie we're talking about, she doesn't have the chops for anything less subtle than THE GAY SPIDER IS BEING ABUSED BY A PIMP
I actually liked the execution on that. It's rare we see a character get abused and it isn't in the far past, they don't get saved, Being pushy only makes things worse, And they just have to cope with it like real people. I don't know if i've seen that before.
The only other problem is that the rest of his screentime is gay sex jokes
A female pimp that violently rapes you would make people so horny it would spawn 50k images and thousands of twitter bugs condescending to you how "abuse is bad" and getting made into SJW cringe compilations which spawn a new wave of fascism
A woman victim would obviously get all sorts of shitflinging. Don't know if a woman pimp would be taken seriously enough. Though I think woman abusers can sometimes be worse, partly because they're not taken seriously by the legal system. But that wouldn't really work with the show since, what legal system?
Well Valentino ain't exactly a man either. He's a giga flaming homosexual, but there's only a handful of non-flamboyant male characters so this doesn't register in people's heads. However, how common are gay femboy flamer abusers in media?
Were you supposed to have assumed that Charlie and Vaggie were dating this whole time? The whole she's my girlfriend thing came out of nowhere.
Pilot
Where they act like they're just BFFs too.
Nta and I'm don't even like the show that much, but I'm 99% sure at one point they confirm they're dating in the pilot.
Nope. They don't.
Killjoy only says the line about "not touching the gaze", but there's no direct indication her and Vaggie being a thing. Vaggie is even introduced to Alastor as hotel staff. Aside from Vaggie looking jelly and buttmad about everything as usual, Charlie could be scissoring Cherri Bomb for all we know, or Katie is just wrong/referring to something else.
Not even a criticism. The actual best way to handle that shit by the way, to not have characters go around announcing their sex life out of context, and works better for the whole audience either way, always has. Good example is the original text of Dorian Gray being over a century old and has implications of the main character being a degenerate doing literally gay shit, but never explicitly - because it doesn't even need to be. Oscar Wilde himself was a homo, so pretty easy to see it from inference in the text if you care to consider that aspect.