By "Magical girl" I mean something like Sailor Moon, Ladybug, Win Club or pretty cure. The superhero: "magical warrior type" . Not just any girl that uses magic. And I strongly believe the first one Is Mary Marvel predating Sally the witch, who is mistakenly considered the first, by 24 years.
She was:
>Created in 1942 , during World War 2, therefore she predates all anime magical girls.
>Has magic powers that she uses for good
>Has both Civilian And Magical forms
>Transformation sequence (She just says Shazam for a lightning bolt)
>Changes clothes after transforming
>Funny animal companion ( hers is the tiger Tawky Tawny)
>Uses magic to fight for Justice. Literally punched bad guys in the 40s as a young girl.
So yeah, basically america did it first. Way before Sally, sailor moon,Madoka, pretty cute etc.
>stares at that art
and I see Japan once more did it better.
It’s fan art dude. Obviously she didn’t look like that in 1942. This was
Goddess
She is amazing isn’t she? Just wish DC comics stopped wasting her.
They won't. They can't even use Billy right.
So anyway as I was saying I see Japan..
>not appreciating soulful Golden Age art
You have bad taste anon
I hear that OP also the first Kaiju movie is American too
>The Beast from 20,000 Fathoms Not Rated 1953 ‧ Sci-fi/Horror ‧ 1h 20m
>Godzilla Not Rated 1954 ‧ Sci-fi/Horror ‧ 1h 36m
TIL! Make sense. Japan was inspired by America yet again
Ray Bradbury was a it salty about that for a while as well.
People in a/ were seething with rage when I mentioned it. They all frantically used their keyboards and none could find a Japanese magical girl older than Mary Marvel.
Sally the witch might be the first Japanese magical girl. But not the first overall. That’s Mary.
Literally every anime historian in Japan will matter-of-factly talk about how the earliest anime and manga were inspired by American products because they understand it's a historical fact. Weebs are fricking morons.
Could agree more. Aneruca had the idea first and there’s nothing wrong with that. Sally the witch is pure cope.
TIL. I didn’t know he was a weeb
Didn't know Bradbury was but I know Harryhausen was pissed because he considered Suitmation to be inferior to Stop Motion (Which is true IMO. I love Tsuburaya and co and all the work they did but Stop Motion is arguably my favorite effect ever). Gojira has an interesting history and wouldn't have gotten off the ground had it not been for films like Beast and King Kong. I consider it the best rip off ever made. Tonally it's nothing at all like Beast. I attribute it to Honda's direction.
The fact that it came out first is part of my conspiracy theory that 2000 Godzilla was actually based off the beast
While it's true that the first kaiju movie was American (You could even argue that King Kong counted all the way back in 1933) the idea of a big frick huge monster that shows up to slap humanity's collective shit practically predates history.
Religions past and present the world over are riddled with stories of "And so the big fricking demon animal dragon thing rose from the seas/crawled out of the earth/fell from the sky...But then our GOD beat the FRICKING SHIT OUT OF IT YAY OUR GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD"
Nobody can really claim the idea of giant ass monsters just because they were the first to film it and put it in a theatre.
I never said America made up the idea I said the first Kaiju movie which is a genre of scifi movie was American. Also King Kong does not make the cut off in the 1933 movie to classify as a Kaiju. The cut off is 65ft.
The first piloted giant robot was Brazilian.
>jessnevins.com/blog/?p=276
kino
You mean the first Cinemaphile piloted giant robot. (and I'm pretty sure there are others if this doesn't meet height requirements)
Seems like that thing was only 9 feet tall and didn't have a pilot inside it.
>https://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2013/09/the-electric-titan-robot-tank-monster-1916.html
Funnier fact: The first modern Super Hero
Interesting. Who is that anon?
This is the Golden Bat (Ogon Batto) and the oldest references to him date back to 1932
Uh interesting, much earlier than Superman
That's not the Scarlet Pimpernel.
So was The Phantom, at least read around the subject.
The first "magical warrior type" of what you might consider the modern era depends on what you consider the modern era. Olga Mesmer pre-dates Mary Marvel by five years, Fantoma, Claire Voyant/Black Widow etc by two years and Nelvana predates Mary Marvel by a full year, but if you want to go back further there's the Sea Hag (Popeye) and Wilma Deering (Buck Rogers) from 1929, Jane Arden from 1928 and Connie from 1927, which while the last three aren't really magical do represent that step up of female characters from sidekicks to main characters. Since comic books as a format were still developing at the time and the superhero genre didn't really exist until much later in the 1930s it's not hugely surprising that early superheroes were all male, in a male-dominated publishing industry. Totally not gay or anything.
But prior to comic books we have the Penny Dreadful and other forms that definitively fit into the 'pulp' category, even Tijuana bibles to some extent, a menagerie of forms and titles that gave us characters like Allan Quatermain, Sweeney Todd, Sexton Blake and from which ultimately all comic books derive. But if we're going back that far then Ayesha/"She" is a far older magical warrior girl, just in prose rather than illustrated, and most of the really cheap stuff was never archived and may as well simply never have existed; we can never know if there were earlier figures within those print traditions, and we're really stretching the definition of modern era, at which point we have to ask what's the point of defining an era just to say x was first of the x's of that era?
Like I said in the OP I mean girls in the tradition of Sailor Moon. Superhero + Magicalngirl. Not just random girls with magic.
Olga Mesmer Doesn’t count because she is an adult and lacks a transformation sequence. She is not even magucal as she is science based.
Again, I said first magical girl, like sailor moon is, not first girl superhero
Yeah once he started going on about a Haggard novel I knew it was just mucho texto trying to look smart. Cuchulain is closer to a magical girl than Ayesha. I did a little digging and asked a friend who studies comic book history I think you're right, OP-- he can't think of anyone who predates Mary Marvel who hits all the basic mahou shoujo tropes
TIL. Thanks for doing that research anon
You don't get to cherry pick magical girl definitions.
A magical girl in the most basic form is just a normal girl who acquires magical powers that interfere with her day to day life. The magical girl doesn't need to be a super hero or warrior.
And if you want to get into that specifically, the super heroine variety or magical girl goes on magical adventures. With magic. This doesn't occur all that much with Mary, especially early on.
The Marvel family get their powers from a magic wizard, sure. But using those powers to stop crooks with guns and punch out nazis isn't exactly magical. Can you really call her a magical girl when she's just using her powers to do the shit Billy does? Can you even call her a magical girl when her powers are reliant on Billy? The powers are Billy's. Not hers. He just shares them because he's a good kid.
Zatanna is a much better example of a super heroic magical girl than Mary is, and she even still predates Sally The Witch by two years so you still get to gloat on weebs.
With the best will in the world, you sound like you learned critical theory from tvtropes and wikipedia.
What research? He asked his imaginary friend.
Well then you've misunderstood what was being asked in the post you're responding to. See that question? What's the point of defining an era that begins with a particular type just to say "this is the first of that type in this era?"
The problem with that kind of bullshit noise, OP, is this: you're wrong on your own terms, because I can just say nope, the modern era and the magical warrior girl archetype begins with Sailor Moon. Anything before that is archaic like Mary Marvel, the Sea Hag or Ayesha.
But even if you don't want to accept that, Nelvana still has Mary Marvel beat on your own definition by a whole year, you fricking poser.
I think you're missing the point. OP doesn't just mean "girl who has magic", they mean a girl who goes from her civilian identity to a magical/powered one with a transformation. Nelvana isn't that, just a super powered woman.
You are both reaching hard like a/ did by calling Alice a magic cal girl. Again what part of Magical girl, like Sailor moon, you don't understand?
Magical girl warrior is a specific subset. That's already well defined. It's The Mahou shouhou type that anime popularised. tv tropes literally defines the term. It's not something I am imposing.
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalGirlWarrior
Nelvana fails it because she lacks a transformation sequence and she is not a even a young girl. it's Magucal GIRL not WOMAN
Inb4 tv tropes doesn't count because reasons
Yes!!! Exactly that. Thank you
Again Magical warrior like Sailor Moon. Or Pretty cure, none of those you posed count because you think I meant “first super hero” or”first girl with magic”.
I was very clear. I mean a girl with the tropes Sailor moon popularized. Otherwise any young witch would count. And they don’t
That's not the Shadow his radio plays go back to 1930
That's more a pulp hero, isn't he?
He has superpowers though. Batman doesn't even have those and he's a superhero
There's actually a new Golden Bat manga.
https://mangadex.org/title/a055644f-4efa-42c7-b3c0-dfedcdbe4df5/golden-bat-a-mysterious-story-of-the-taisho-era-s-skull
sabrina?
So whats the deal with the shazam family, is it just billy and mary or are there always five other idiots running around with the same exact powers? Is Mary even used in elseworlds where Shazam is the big bad or cartoons that have villains with Mr Mind and Black Adam?
It's a bit complicated, but I think it goes like this
>Originally, it was just Billy as Captain Marvel
>Later, his sister Mary (as Mary Marvel) and Freddy (as Captain Marvel Jr.) join him
>But also 3 kids coincidentally named Billy Batson get to summon the thunder themselves and become the Lieutenant Marvels
>After a reboot or 2, the Lieutenants stop being a thing except for Earth-5
>Now it's just Billy, Mary and Freddy
>Until they decide that the franchise needs a shakeup so Billy takes over the role of the Wizard, and Freddy becomes the main hero as Shazam, Mary stays the same I think
>This gets undone, Mary goes evil, stuff happens and all 3 lose their powers right before Flashpoint
>In Flashpoint, the 3 diverse kids (Darla, Pedro and Eugene) officially first show up, where they have to fuse with Billy, Mary, and Freddy into Captain Thunder
>In New 52, Billy gets a new origin and starts living with his new adopted siblings: Freddy, Mary, Darla, Pedro, and Eugene
>Billy still gets powers and becomes Shazam, but this time he shares them with his foster family, they don't all have the exact same powers (Eugene could talk/listen to technology or something) but this is never elaborated upon, so they might as well all be the exact same magic electric flying brick
>Eventually, they decide once again that the franchise needs a shakeup, so now Billy can't share his powers with his family anymore, and after 1 shitty Teen Titans series, Billy gets stuck in the Rock of Eternity, and Mary becomes the main hero as Shazam
>This doesn't last, so after Lazarus Planet and a crossover with Wonder Woman, Mary once again gets her own pantheon and becomes Mary Marvel, and Billy becomes the main hero again as The Captain, since he can't say Shazam without transforming anymore
>Currently Billy is the Captain, Mary is Mary Marvel, and the rest of the kids are stuck in a powerless supporting role until Billy finds a way to share his powers again
I might've missed some stuff.
For the record, I still think it’s moronic they shoehorned 3 other kids into the Shazam/Marvek family,
Darla is fine I guess because then we would have 2 girls and 2 boys. But the other two kids are just unnecessary and yet again another case of forced diversity.
The fat kid and the Asian kid have literally zero personalities and they are just bloat. I would only Keep Darla really
Got to hand it to Johns giving her the last name Dudley, it's a clever ruse to entrench Darla deeper into the existing mythos.
I don't dislike them as much as others do, since I definitely think there's potential for an extended Shazam Family (if the Bat-Family can be in the double digits, what's wrong with 6 Shazam kids?), but they've done pretty much nothing with them, so yeah, I'm not exactly a Pedro or Eugene fan, but since there's no sign of them leaving any time soon, I hope they can at least find something interesting to do with them. Maybe get them their own pantheons with Hispanic and Asian deities? Is that racist? I dunno.
And it's even more clever to never actually do anything with it! Bravo Johns!
Makes me wonder if he planned for Uncle Dudley to be black in the New 52 but never got around to bringing him back himself.
Have you read the latest issued with them? They lost their powers and they sound super manipulative trying to make billy and Mary give them powers by guilt tripping them. It was unintended but they sound super manipulative.
They have never shown being worthy of the powers imho. They just lucked out being Billy's foster family.
I can understand how they could seem manipulative, but like you said, that's not the intention, they're not trying to be manipulative, they're just kids, they used to have powers and now they don't, I think it's justified for them to be bummed out about it. Even if it may seem like they're trying to guilt trip Billy, they aren't, Waid actually had to go out of his way to say this in an interview, and specify that Billy is feeling guilty all on his own because he's that nice of a kid and likes sharing his powers with his family.
Even then, they're still trying to help Billy, powers or not, so it's not like they're inconsiderate or something, they're just powerless.
>They have never shown being worthy of the powers imho. They just lucked out being Billy's foster family.
Well, I'd argue that's not that different from the original Lieutenant Marvels, their arguable predecessors, who just got lucky by also being called Billy Batson.
I'm fine with the extended family not necessarily being 100% pure since then we just have a bunch of Billy clones, and that just not being straight up evil is good enough, Freddy for example has never been Mr. Perfect, and Mary has gone evil multiple times all on her own anyway.
I dint doubt that was the writers intent…but it doesn’t come that way at all. Like Tony stark said if you are nothing with the suit (powers in this case) them you don’t deserve them.
2.- you are making the mistake of putting all versions if Mary and Freddy in a blender.
I am fine within being fallible. It’s just that they are completely uninteresting as characters. And they are not even particularly morally inspiring either. And the ligue ant Marvek es were supposed to be a joke.
>I dint doubt that was the writers intent…but it doesn’t come that way at all.
Agree to disagree I guess, I didn't get that idea when I read it, they just seemed kinda sad that they have no powers anymore, same as Freddy honestly.
>Like Tony stark said if you are nothing with the suit (powers in this case) them you don’t deserve them.
They're good kids and that's about it, comparing them to someone who's literally pure of heart is kinda unfair to them I think.
Also, I don't think someone has to necessarily be pure of heart to "deserve" powers, if that were the case, heroes like Guy Gardner wouldn't exist, nothing wrong with being a little rough around the edges I think.
>you are making the mistake of putting all versions if Mary and Freddy in a blender.
I guess so, but at the same time, I think Freddy was always meant to have a bit more of an edge than Billy, even in the Pre-DC days, and again, I must bring up the Lieutenants, who weren't chosen or anything, they just happened to have the same name as Billy.
>It’s just that they are completely uninteresting as characters.
I completely agree lol, like I said, Johns didn't do anything with them, but they seem to be here to stay, so I hope someone will do something interesting with them in the long run, there's always untapped potential I think.
>the ligue ant Marvek es were supposed to be a joke.
I think you're saying the Lieutenants were supposed to be a joke, which is true, but they would also help around when needed, it's not like they were useless or anything, and they were still part of the Marvel Family, similar to Uncle Marvel.
That's subjective, some people like big ass hero families, and I don't think 6 is a big number anyway, specially when 3 of them mostly stick as supporting or background characters.
If anything, the current Shazamily is on the smaller side of DC hero families.
Uh nice post even if we disagree in some points you come as reasonable and intelligent. Kudos to you anon. That’s a rarity here in Cinemaphile
The Bat family being massively bloated is not a good thing and shouldn't be used as a justification to bloat other hero families.
>Eventually, they decide once again that the franchise needs a shakeup, so now Billy can't share his powers with his family anymore, and after 1 shitty Teen Titans series, Billy gets stuck in the Rock of Eternity, and Mary becomes the main hero as Shazam
>his doesn't last, so after Lazarus Planet and a crossover with Wonder Woman, Mary once again gets her own pantheon and becomes Mary Marvel
I always find it amusing when big olans like that have to get backtracked due to a complete lack of interest.
>Is Mary even used in elseworlds where Shazam is the big bad
You mean Billy Shazam? Or the Wizard Shazam? If you mean Billy, she usually isn't used because they tend to not care about Billy that much besides being someone who can fight Superman, but I haven't read enough evil Billy Elseworlds to say.
If you mean the Wizard, I also haven't read enough evil Wizard Elseworlds.
>or cartoons that have villains with Mr Mind and Black Adam?
Yeah, Mary showed up in that old Captain Marvel cartoon and in Brave and the Bold too, she's also been in YJ too.
Well, I was talking about Kingdom Come specifically but I knew there were more but don’t remember Mary in any of them.
Were Billy and Mary always foster children or was that a new thing introduced after Flashpoint?
>Well, I was talking about Kingdom Come specifically
Oh, well I don't really consider Billy "evil" in Kingdom Come, specially since he's just being controlled by Luthor and sacrifices himself at the end, but Freddy and Mary do make background cameos as King and Queen Marvel, along with their son, The Whiz.
Also, I've always thought the Whiz could be a good hero name for Darla, since she's usually portrayed as using her godly speed more than anything else.
>I knew there were more but don’t remember Mary in any of them.
There's one I specifically remember where Billy is uncharacteristically bitter and envious of Superman, really ooc stuff.
>Were Billy and Mary always foster children or was that a new thing introduced after Flashpoint?
Originally, Mary was Billy's long lost twin sister, and she also had a relationship with Freddy, but after the New 52, Mary and Billy aren't related anymore, she's portrayed as being older than him, and now they're all foster siblings, so there's no romance involved anymore.
It’s simple really. In the golden age there was only Billy, Mary and Freddy.(not counting non main ones like the lieutenant marvels)
All the others alike Darla are a new 52 politically correct invention
Imagine making the first character like this but you can’t promote her at all because her last name is “Marvel”
I've always thought renaming Billy as "Captain Thunder" is better than Shazam..but Mary Thunder really doesn't work.
I want more cartoons and solos with Mary
Did you read her most recent mini? She was The New Champion of Shazam!™ for 4 whole issues.
I read and it was meeeh. They were trying too hard to have her replace Billy. When in reality Mary is cool enough in her own without taking Billi’s place
I really wish they'd stop trying to replace Billy, specially when they barely do anything with him, this goes both for when they tried it with Freddy and Mary, I wonder if we'll see Darla replace Billy for a while in 2038.
I agree.
I am a huge Mary fan, but even I think trying to have her replace Billy is stupid.
Mary has a huge history and a cool lore on her own . She is a magical girl for God’s sake. Magical girls are a huge deal She really doesn’t need to replace Billy.
No, I heard about her getting a couple issues of Knight Terrors event but haven’t read it yet.
Given that Mary's Fawcett appearances are largely in public domain, I was actually thinking of drawing little comics for Mary, not to make a profit or anything(DC would frick you over hard), but to be able to post them online and maybe get a few extra views than an expy would- but mostly because my niece was really into superheroes for a while and there's not really many long form superheroine comics from Marvel/DC aimed at girls under 12. There's a few(Supergirl- cosmic adventures in the 8th grade, a few Wonder woman comics, Jeff Smith's Captain Marvel series) but a lot of them don't go past 12 issues or are single OGNs.
I may still do it with an expy of Mary instead, but I really like her classic GA stories and they make a good springboard. A lot of girl targeted comics don't get that you can do whimsical, cute, and also have her pounding the hell out of bad guys.
That’s another reason I love Mary she was punching bad guys since the 40s. Mary has a huge potential to be loved by up young girls too. DC comics is really sleeping in her.
Good luck in drawing her anin
Thanks anon. Here’s a Mary design I was working on. I really like how her golden age hair curls, it’s a very iconic look. My idea was that in her Marvel form her hair curls into an M, and when she’s normal her hairbow makes an M shape
That's very cute great job anon! I like it. Keep the good work
This is now a Georgia Sivanna thread.
She lost her powers in her first appearance so…
But I was touched by how she just wanted powers to be pretty enough to be liked
Making a decent story about her is probably quite easy, all the pieces are there.
Yeah it would be cool to see her again, hopefully a dress her self steem issues.
I still have the idea in my head of Georgia using her and her father's mad scientist tech to capture some sort of magical entity, and after a while chasing it down, she finally manages to capture it, and she asks it that she will let it free if it uses magic to make her pretty. Only for the entity to blow up in her face about all the trouble that she has caused for something she could fix herself (in a "THAT'S IT??" sort of way), as mad science stuff is more than enough to do what's essentially plastic surgery. It could be an interesting way to see what Georgia Sivanna really wants, and it could also flesh out the relationship between the Sivanna family.
She showed up in the last Mary Marvel Mini and is gonna be a villain in the new Amazon attack linited series.
They aged her up to an adult because comic book writers are absolutely petrified of writing teenagers nowadays, the cowards.
Does it really matter which came first? Mary Marvel is pretty far removed from modern day mahou shoujo tropes.
It matters because buidling the future is keeping the past alive, We need to remind ourselves that American fantasy doesn't have to boring.
She is not removed at all tho. If you read her Fawcett comics , specially her solo comics you will see she is pretty much just like any other magical girl including Lady bug Winx club.
If anything, she is more a classic magical girl than the aforementioned Ladybug because her stories are waaay more girly.
She is only removed if you take her new 52 version that shoehorned the wokeshit.
I was comparing her to jap magical girl shows like Precure. That's why I specifically said mahou shoujo.
I wasn't talking with respect to cartoons, but all fiction. I don't think it's fair to compare the two since the west tends to relegate animation exclusively towards kids studd.
I sill think the same anon. If you read her classic Fawcett solo run she is pretty much just another magical girl. Heck her “power of Shazam” room was pretty much like that too,
But the new 52 and beyond shit is very removed that I will concede
Tbh with like 1 or 2 exceptions I find western magical girl shows extremely mediocre.
It's probably one of two genres Japan really has a strongarm over. The other is mecha.
Also thrillers, space opera, detective shows, slice of life shows, historical shows etc. I think the only animated genres where the west excels are comedy, episodic action and parody.
Too obvious.
?
>I wasn't talking with respect to cartoons, but all fiction
Oh but Mahou shojo is rarely seen in books or movies.
>Oh but Mahou shojo is rarely seen in books or movies
I'm pretty sure you're wrong but it's alright I can tell you're new to this. Once you get more into this hobby you'll see that OP is making salient points here.
>I'm pretty sure you're wrong but it's alright I can tell you're new to this
New to what? I've read plenty of girl orientated books back in the day and the strong female characters were very rarely what you would could "magical girls".
>Once you get more into this hobby
Which hobby? Comics?
>that OP is making salient points here.
I don't disagree with OP though.
>Which hobby? Comics?
Yeah it's a pretty in-depth hobby, it's something that can confuses novices not use to such analysis.
I think he could have a potential case with "Detective" at least simply because of the sheer consistency of Detective Conan/Case Closed with nearly 30 years of bullshit murder tricks. And while western cartoons can have Mystery and Detective-ing it is rarely the actual focus (IE: A lot of Batman shows focus on the Cape aspects for example). Though i think that is ultimately a argument of what matters to the "genre" the most and how much "Fairplay" is needed in the Mystery which is subjective, i think Detective Conan is usually good at the individual murders and creativity of the "tricks", but the "Myth Arc" and Black Organization "Mystery" is garbage to me and i doubt it can be salvaged and the way it is going i would say something like Mystery Inc had a better "Myth Arc".
Which goes into subjectivity, like i fricking loved Symphogear from the get go even with its NO BUDGET and QUALITY first season but found every single Nanoha show i tried boring even if i seen a ton of acclaim that convinced me to try them, Not everything is for everyone.
magical girl shows in general are mediocre
Everything is " in general" mediocre. That's how media works. My point was that I can find more great stuff in japanese magical shows than in western ones.
Even Japan has a lot of mediocrity. You only hear if the good stuff because that’s the only ones that get imported.
Sasami magucal girls club for example is mediocre as hell
Yes where did I say otherwise? Seriously do you lack reading comprehension?
>You only hear if the good stuff because that’s the only ones that get imported.
We are not in the 90s anymore. Everything gets imported.
This is peak 10/10 design. And yes the story was shit but black Mary is top tier waifu
>the pleated and combat boots emphasizing her legs that makes her look like a femdom goth cheerleader
>the sheer confidence that just oozes out of her when she's wearing it
>the fact that black makes her stand out from Billy's red and Freddy's blue
Great design but really wrapped up in that 2000's "see that cute girl next door? She's REALLY A bawd" thing." I just like cute girls better.
Peak magucal girl heroine
I’m pretty sure Fantomah and Wonder Woman predate Mary Marvel Shazam?
Yes, but Those are not magical girls as in Mahou shoujous as in the tropes sailor Moon popularized. As in henshin heroines
Can you people read the first like of the OP. It's magical girl not random girl with magic. Do you even know what sailor moon is?
Magical girl warrior is a specific subset. That's already well defined. It's The Mahou shouhou type that anime popularised. tv tropes literally defines the term. It's not something I am imposing.
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicalGirlWarrior
>Those are not magical girls as in Mahou shoujous as in the tropes sailor Moon popularized
Neither is Mary Marvel.
You should read some golden age Mary Marvel/Wow comics. That and Wonder woman's GA comics made me realize that a lot of the formula of older superheroine stories aren't too far off from modern shoujo. Sometime in the 50's-60's they got too wrapped into the idea that girls want a different formula that was more melodrama focused with no action and I can see why they lost a lot of the girl's audience. A lot of those 50's/60's romance comics fall into formula and just aren't very engaging to read many of.
Yes, exactly couldn't agree more. That's why I went back to read them. Those old issues are actually pretty good.
There's a reason Mary's comics sold millions of issues in the 40's
Technically Diana Prince “changed” into Wonder Woman although the Seventies live action series really highlighted this by having her twirl around into her costume.
That's just an identity chance. Magical girls don't have powers unless they transform. And Diana has powers all the time .
Besides Diana is not a girl she is a women. And that's assuming she transfoend before Mary which I doubt
If you corrupt Mary Marvel, would she still be evil when she undoes the transformation?
No we can't. That's Isekai not Mahou shoujous
Cna we agree that Alice in Wonderland was the kick off?
And Wizard of Oz series was the fuel?
eh.
What is the
Sapphic bisexual
She is just a tomboy there. Chill
Bump
you're in luck!