It's a tribal ritual symbol from when Tár went to the Amazon and studied those native people. The girl who killed herself went there with Tár and they did some ayahuasca ritual together. So the motif represents Tár's connection/bond with the girl. This idea was more fleshed out in the script but ended up on the cutting room floor.
She keeps randomly finding little pieces of paper or like her assistants notebook covered with these little hand-drawn spiral things. It's supposed to be a symbol of her guilt or something, but I felt like it was a bit forced is all.
The director said he's a fan of Monster Hunter. There's some skype interview with him where you can see a Playstation controller in the background of his office.
She looks happy, and seems to enjoy her music. That's what matters.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>She looks happy,
She's probably very far from it, she reimagine herself as some sort of posh, european girl with a classical education while in reality, she's a country bumkin from a working class family. She's put on a brave face her whole life and her only desire was something more than that. It would have taken her years to readjust to the change and the fact that her legacy was forver tarnished. She only smiles to seem professional about it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You guys skipped the part with Bernstein about the meaning of music
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's probably where she started, but got lost on the way due to the alure of a gilded life. You can read one of two ways, that she actually manage to reconnect with her past self and her love for music or it's just another cope she attempts to make the blow to her career easier to swallow >I dont need the aknowledgement of those pompous asses, I do this for the love of music
But she doesnt, right on the rehearsal for the monster hunter concert, she slips straight back into her pretentious "what was the composers intention with this piece of music", still trying to convince the orchestra that she's hot shit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
She's not having a lot of trouble in the Philippines scenes. You would expect her to turn her nose up at every passerby but she just keeps her head down in her work in the middle of the noisy street. I think she is able to quickly adapt and that's the point, you realize you didn't actually know her and she's kind of a hollow entity that can change masks easily.
yeah my parents explained the plot to me when they recommended it and said "and at the end she becomes a loser conducting video games music in china"
3 months ago
Anonymous
be as obtuse and butthurt over video games as you want to but it's like being a popstar for 3 decades playing for full arenas then dropping off the map and playing in bars for 14 drunk people.
How the frick is that rock bottom? Maybe if you're a narcissistic, status obsessed psychopath. Most "conductors" would kill to compose for a $100 million AAA franchise.
3 months ago
Anonymous
She isn't a composer she just conducts.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>t. ching chong bing bong
3 months ago
Anonymous
Conducing video game OSTs for the cosplay scene is very different from making soundtracks yourself.
And you can guarantee that most video game composers would much rather be running their own philharmonic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>t. ching chong bing bong
You are a relic from the 1950s when rich people used "high culture" as a way to reinforce their status to lord among the masses. Now everyone consumes the same culture and there is no difference between high and low. Yes even rich people view Marvel slop or listen to Taylor Swift. However there are still relics, self-important midwits such as yourself and everyone on /film/ who believe that if they view arthouse films or listen to classical music they are a superior kind of person. That is why Todd Field had her involved with Monster Hunter as the ultimate insult, in his world, in the far left woke ivory tower, videogames designed for the masses represent the ultimate embarrassment. Meanwhile, he is in a hell of his own making, his elitism and midwit IQ are enough to separate him from the masses, but not enough to give him the enlightenment to step outside this rigid intellectual isolation he has placed himself in.
[...]
You are a relic from the 1950s when rich people used "high culture" as a way to reinforce their status to lord among the masses. Now everyone consumes the same culture and there is no difference between high and low. Yes even rich people view Marvel slop or listen to Taylor Swift. However there are still relics, self-important midwits such as yourself and everyone on /film/ who believe that if they view arthouse films or listen to classical music they are a superior kind of person. That is why Todd Field had her involved with Monster Hunter as the ultimate insult, in his world, in the far left woke ivory tower, videogames designed for the masses represent the ultimate embarrassment. Meanwhile, he is in a hell of his own making, his elitism and midwit IQ are enough to separate him from the masses, but not enough to give him the enlightenment to step outside this rigid intellectual isolation he has placed himself in.
In the end she played music for passionate fans who enjoy the music emotionally, which I believe was Tar's motivation (there was a flashback or something before she joined high society, don't remember exactly), rather than for snobs. To me it is a hidden positive ending, this is supported by the parts before where she explores beautiful nature and sees people with simpler lives around her being happy
For a while I thought it was a biopic and that the "Tar" was Bela Tarr, who I now know is a man but didn't realize because Bella is such a girly fricking name.
I haven't actually seen much Tar hate on Cinemaphile but if there is any it's for the same reason that it doesn't get discussed much here in the first place: It's a movie for grown-ups that has almost no appeal to an adolescent boy mindset.
I thought it was great and I was the only one in my theater when I saw it.
I wish a director’s cut would surface though, tons of shit got cut from the trailer.
It was actually my favorite of 22. My only real gripe, and man is it a small one, is that the ending...could've been slightly darker I feel. I mean it was totally fine, but I sort of wish it was less of a "reap what you sow" thing and more of a "holy frick that is so horrible" thing. Eh, whatever. Still love the shit out of this movie.
I guess it makes sense.
She got caught in a blow-over MeToo case that would never go anywhere because there wasn't much evidence and spazzed out in public.
She fricked up bad and her career in the big leagues was over, but it wasn't like she was a wanted criminal, and comparatively the world of high end classical music is little known.
So she was able to shuffle down to the c-list circuit and make a living that way. It wasn't like the GSG9 was go throw her in the supermax for being handsy with a student.
Yeah as I said, I think the ending is fine and it works narratively. Zero argument there. Maybe it's just cause I'm fricked up but I wanted something more miserable and dark to round off the tale. It didn't need a an hero or anything, but something further than a comeuppance sorta scenario in my opinion.
I think for the character being consigned to mediocrity was worse than actually burning up completely and fully collapsing into nothing.
Like at least the latter would have let her feel catharsis, she's the type to see it as part of her legacy building. Being the woman who would be remembered for decades for going from the peak of the composer world to bombing over a giant sex scandal and all that. It'd make her notorious. If it all came tumbling down and she'd necked herself over it, it'd be a legend of sorts.
But just ending up as a for-hire mercenary for whatever low budget convention or event needed a composer was a worse end.
It's definitely an adequate finale, but even going the other direction in an extreme way would have been slightly more satisfying to me. Imagine if she, not only bypasses the charges and case somehow...but is rewarded in another country by their philharmonic or whatever. Doubling down in a sense. Sort of like the bad guy gets away with it approach. Not as melodramatic as a death or anything but definitely a darker ending overall.
I watched it for an hour thinking it was some kind of long setup before the twist, like how that british zombie movie did a long sequence before the zombies appear. But no. It's not called Tar because dinosaurs live in tar and come out to attack the world or whatever, but because the mc is named Tar.
I don't watch modern biopics. Most of the art of filmmaking has disappeared. So there's no point watching them anymore.
If i want to know about a topic/person, i'll read a book about them or watch documentaries or something.
Yeah they took the coward's route and made the protagonist female
>She should've been a man in the story. >Yeah they took the coward's route and made the protagonist female
Moron take.
If she was a man, every critic would had disregarded Tar as some egomaniacal, narcissist bastard who got what was comming to him and everyone would had hyperfocused on that entire plotpoint as some scathing criticism of men in power and all that boring fricking shit we've hear a thousand times and seen a hundred renditions of in tv shows and films the last 6 years. By making Tar a woman, even feminist, lesbian women has to contend with her actions and actually try to empathize instead of disregarding her entirely based on her sex. It would have been to easy making Tar a man who was just running around having afairs with secretaries.
Who stole her bound copy of the score for Mahler's 5th? Her French assistant? How did Elliot get it? We know Elliot was desperate to look at her score. How instrumental was he in getting Tár cancelled?
>Some Asians were saying that the asian part of the movie shows the director is looking down on Asians and Asian pop culture >Some Asians were saying it's mocking those who look down on Asians and Asian pop culture >A Japanese movie critic who talked with the director about the asian part of the movie reacted to those opinions and defended the movie, said the director thinks western high culture is dying and the future is Asian
It doesn't need to be a monster hunter cosplay party in Philippine if it was about low iq morons likeing video game soundtracks, though.
It's natural to think there's more to it than meets the eye.
Asian art communities are always heavily segregated from Western ones.
There is definitely some looking down on them. But even beyond that, they're just another world. Musically, theatrically, and in writing.
You don't get a lot of direct cross-chatter.
I think the ending is flawed.
She's not portrayed as a racist but this film has a structure that being a shitty conductor in SEAsia is the worst thing that could happen to her.
I saw some people defending it and saying horrible shit she sees in SEA are just realistic, but it's pretty unrealistic. She would live in a much better way in any mid-tier SEA city if she could get a job like that.
Despite she's trying to take her new job seriously, there's almost no meaningful interactions between her and her new asian cowakers shown in the film because it tries to use those funny cosplayers as a punchline in the ending to give the audience a shock.
I don't agree with those critics saying it's super racist, and it was probably not intended, but I don't think it's masterfully constructed to the point that it can rightfully avoid that kind of criticisms, either.
> shitty conductor in SEAsia is the worst thing that could happen to her.
The ending is her losing her ability to control 'time' when she conducts (She wears metronome headset to synch with the video). During the interview at the intro she said that was the thing she enjoyed the most about conducting. She lost what she ultimate desired in pursuit of frivolous pleasures and it makes for a fitting ending tbh.
SEAsia was just a random place where her scandalous actions were unknown.
>She lost what she ultimate desired in pursuit of frivolous pleasures and it makes for a fitting ending
after getting cancelled, she went back to her old house and she cried watching an old VHS of tv concert for kids that Bernstein giving a speech like ''I'm so happy that we share music with you young normies'' iirc. It implied that was her dream when she was a kid. And ironically, she could do that in SEAsia. I think this is the main reason why some people think the ending is rather a positive outcome for her, actually.
This and ''She lost what she ultimate desired'' aren't contradicted?
> ''I'm so happy that we share music with you young normies'' iirc. It implied that was her dream when she was a kid >This and ''She lost what she ultimate desired'' aren't contradicted?
I don't think so.
My point was, being forced to be a human metronome her ability to change music and give it her flavor was taking away. She is merely there because the audience expects a conductor to an orchestra, but her presence has no impact on the music being performed. She is not a part of the aspect of sharing music, merely onlooker to music being played.
Re-watching the intro, maybe writing 'ultimate desire' was a hyperbole, but the ability to control time was what made the profession so attractive to her. Sure the ending sequence made it look like she getting ready for a fresh start and start a new positive chapter, but the very ending scene shouldnt be considered positive
Thought it was great. The weird reappearing spiral motif felt a little tacked on to me.
What motif ? Didn't see it
It's a tribal ritual symbol from when Tár went to the Amazon and studied those native people. The girl who killed herself went there with Tár and they did some ayahuasca ritual together. So the motif represents Tár's connection/bond with the girl. This idea was more fleshed out in the script but ended up on the cutting room floor.
She keeps randomly finding little pieces of paper or like her assistants notebook covered with these little hand-drawn spiral things. It's supposed to be a symbol of her guilt or something, but I felt like it was a bit forced is all.
I thought this was boring. I gave up like 20 minutes in. And that's not usually an issue for me with any movie.
this was me, i was on an airplane and still turned it off, id rather sleep or be bored
Who says we hate it? In the bedroom is better though.
>In the bedroom
Indeed. This movie is one of the unheralded great movies of the past 25 years.
>we
Strange to compare them tbh. I know they have the same director but there's no other similarities.
I thought it was a true story.
Same, the ending with Monster Hunter feels very weird if it's not based on something real
The director said he's a fan of Monster Hunter. There's some skype interview with him where you can see a Playstation controller in the background of his office.
Nah it just represents the fall from grace. Video game music isnt taken seriously in the philharmonic world
it's still weird because if you've never heard of monster hunter, the movie makes no attempt to explain it's a popular game franchise
The cosplayers in the audience say it all, you don't need to know what game it is to know she's hit rock bottom for a conductor.
fair enough
She looks happy, and seems to enjoy her music. That's what matters.
>She looks happy,
She's probably very far from it, she reimagine herself as some sort of posh, european girl with a classical education while in reality, she's a country bumkin from a working class family. She's put on a brave face her whole life and her only desire was something more than that. It would have taken her years to readjust to the change and the fact that her legacy was forver tarnished. She only smiles to seem professional about it.
You guys skipped the part with Bernstein about the meaning of music
That's probably where she started, but got lost on the way due to the alure of a gilded life. You can read one of two ways, that she actually manage to reconnect with her past self and her love for music or it's just another cope she attempts to make the blow to her career easier to swallow
>I dont need the aknowledgement of those pompous asses, I do this for the love of music
But she doesnt, right on the rehearsal for the monster hunter concert, she slips straight back into her pretentious "what was the composers intention with this piece of music", still trying to convince the orchestra that she's hot shit.
She's not having a lot of trouble in the Philippines scenes. You would expect her to turn her nose up at every passerby but she just keeps her head down in her work in the middle of the noisy street. I think she is able to quickly adapt and that's the point, you realize you didn't actually know her and she's kind of a hollow entity that can change masks easily.
yeah my parents explained the plot to me when they recommended it and said "and at the end she becomes a loser conducting video games music in china"
be as obtuse and butthurt over video games as you want to but it's like being a popstar for 3 decades playing for full arenas then dropping off the map and playing in bars for 14 drunk people.
How the frick is that rock bottom? Maybe if you're a narcissistic, status obsessed psychopath. Most "conductors" would kill to compose for a $100 million AAA franchise.
She isn't a composer she just conducts.
>t. ching chong bing bong
Conducing video game OSTs for the cosplay scene is very different from making soundtracks yourself.
And you can guarantee that most video game composers would much rather be running their own philharmonic.
You are a relic from the 1950s when rich people used "high culture" as a way to reinforce their status to lord among the masses. Now everyone consumes the same culture and there is no difference between high and low. Yes even rich people view Marvel slop or listen to Taylor Swift. However there are still relics, self-important midwits such as yourself and everyone on /film/ who believe that if they view arthouse films or listen to classical music they are a superior kind of person. That is why Todd Field had her involved with Monster Hunter as the ultimate insult, in his world, in the far left woke ivory tower, videogames designed for the masses represent the ultimate embarrassment. Meanwhile, he is in a hell of his own making, his elitism and midwit IQ are enough to separate him from the masses, but not enough to give him the enlightenment to step outside this rigid intellectual isolation he has placed himself in.
coping manchild
In the end she played music for passionate fans who enjoy the music emotionally, which I believe was Tar's motivation (there was a flashback or something before she joined high society, don't remember exactly), rather than for snobs. To me it is a hidden positive ending, this is supported by the parts before where she explores beautiful nature and sees people with simpler lives around her being happy
but i bet it pays better just by sheer amount of opportunities
For a while I thought it was a biopic and that the "Tar" was Bela Tarr, who I now know is a man but didn't realize because Bella is such a girly fricking name.
Of course its not a true story, women have no talant for anything in real life.
>why do you guys hate it
I haven't actually seen much Tar hate on Cinemaphile but if there is any it's for the same reason that it doesn't get discussed much here in the first place: It's a movie for grown-ups that has almost no appeal to an adolescent boy mindset.
>It's a movie for grown-ups
In your dreams. It's McDonalds arthouse aka capeshit for pseuds and midwits.
You are in no position to criticize anyone with that kind of vocabulary
Oh my god shuuuut the frick upppppp.
my ex-wife was an operetta and I've had too much exposure to insane classical music types IRL to enjoy them on film
She's so ott it's like an unfunny satire
Good, but makes it seem like women also get #metoo'd, when they fricking don't.
I think they made her a woman just because the same story with a man as the protagonist would cause him to engender zero sympathy from the audience.
I thought it was great and I was the only one in my theater when I saw it.
I wish a director’s cut would surface though, tons of shit got cut from the trailer.
woman protagonist
won't watch
You have to be a frickin woman to enjoy this shit
I guess that means the HRT is working 🙂
It was actually my favorite of 22. My only real gripe, and man is it a small one, is that the ending...could've been slightly darker I feel. I mean it was totally fine, but I sort of wish it was less of a "reap what you sow" thing and more of a "holy frick that is so horrible" thing. Eh, whatever. Still love the shit out of this movie.
I guess it makes sense.
She got caught in a blow-over MeToo case that would never go anywhere because there wasn't much evidence and spazzed out in public.
She fricked up bad and her career in the big leagues was over, but it wasn't like she was a wanted criminal, and comparatively the world of high end classical music is little known.
So she was able to shuffle down to the c-list circuit and make a living that way. It wasn't like the GSG9 was go throw her in the supermax for being handsy with a student.
Yeah as I said, I think the ending is fine and it works narratively. Zero argument there. Maybe it's just cause I'm fricked up but I wanted something more miserable and dark to round off the tale. It didn't need a an hero or anything, but something further than a comeuppance sorta scenario in my opinion.
I think for the character being consigned to mediocrity was worse than actually burning up completely and fully collapsing into nothing.
Like at least the latter would have let her feel catharsis, she's the type to see it as part of her legacy building. Being the woman who would be remembered for decades for going from the peak of the composer world to bombing over a giant sex scandal and all that. It'd make her notorious. If it all came tumbling down and she'd necked herself over it, it'd be a legend of sorts.
But just ending up as a for-hire mercenary for whatever low budget convention or event needed a composer was a worse end.
It's definitely an adequate finale, but even going the other direction in an extreme way would have been slightly more satisfying to me. Imagine if she, not only bypasses the charges and case somehow...but is rewarded in another country by their philharmonic or whatever. Doubling down in a sense. Sort of like the bad guy gets away with it approach. Not as melodramatic as a death or anything but definitely a darker ending overall.
I watched it for an hour thinking it was some kind of long setup before the twist, like how that british zombie movie did a long sequence before the zombies appear. But no. It's not called Tar because dinosaurs live in tar and come out to attack the world or whatever, but because the mc is named Tar.
for your sake I really hope this post was just a failed joke
in his defense, the trailer did make it look like a psychological thriller with all her mental breakdown scenes prominently featured
A lot of that is just scans of the photos from her apartment.
Are you guys fricking with me?
This film is actually about Monster Hunter?
Should I watch it as an MH fan?
The rehearsal and the final scene are about a concert with Monster Hunter ost.
holy fricking kino
Did they play Proof of a Hero?
>Boring
>Convoluted
>pro-cancel culture
It sucked Dick out or ass
Great movie, but they should've leaned more into the horror aspect with the dead girl
I've got a feeling you won't be criticising this soon 😉
I didn't think it's that great. It's carefully made to avoid being oversimplified and has a very ''current'' theme but that's pretty much it.
I don't watch modern biopics. Most of the art of filmmaking has disappeared. So there's no point watching them anymore.
If i want to know about a topic/person, i'll read a book about them or watch documentaries or something.
It's fictional mate
It's not a Biopic
She should've been a man in the story. That would've been a lot more timely and struck a nerve.
Yeah they took the coward's route and made the protagonist female
You wanted a gay man movie instead?
>She should've been a man in the story.
>Yeah they took the coward's route and made the protagonist female
Moron take.
If she was a man, every critic would had disregarded Tar as some egomaniacal, narcissist bastard who got what was comming to him and everyone would had hyperfocused on that entire plotpoint as some scathing criticism of men in power and all that boring fricking shit we've hear a thousand times and seen a hundred renditions of in tv shows and films the last 6 years. By making Tar a woman, even feminist, lesbian women has to contend with her actions and actually try to empathize instead of disregarding her entirely based on her sex. It would have been to easy making Tar a man who was just running around having afairs with secretaries.
Anon is exactly right.
Who stole her bound copy of the score for Mahler's 5th? Her French assistant? How did Elliot get it? We know Elliot was desperate to look at her score. How instrumental was he in getting Tár cancelled?
I loved the movie, I just wish there were more actual classical music incorporated into the film itself.
>Some Asians were saying that the asian part of the movie shows the director is looking down on Asians and Asian pop culture
>Some Asians were saying it's mocking those who look down on Asians and Asian pop culture
>A Japanese movie critic who talked with the director about the asian part of the movie reacted to those opinions and defended the movie, said the director thinks western high culture is dying and the future is Asian
I think all of these three are partially true
>>Some Asians were saying it's mocking those who look down on Asians and Asian pop culture
well yes only low iq morons like video game soundtracks
It doesn't need to be a monster hunter cosplay party in Philippine if it was about low iq morons likeing video game soundtracks, though.
It's natural to think there's more to it than meets the eye.
Asian art communities are always heavily segregated from Western ones.
There is definitely some looking down on them. But even beyond that, they're just another world. Musically, theatrically, and in writing.
You don't get a lot of direct cross-chatter.
I loved it. I thought it was also cool to see a guy #metooing a woman and the female harasser being punished for it for once.
What was this about? Right after Tar is led off stage by security.
T for TÁR. Something about writing stops in your sheet music
Definitely onik.
>why do you guys hate it?
we don't?
I think the ending is flawed.
She's not portrayed as a racist but this film has a structure that being a shitty conductor in SEAsia is the worst thing that could happen to her.
I saw some people defending it and saying horrible shit she sees in SEA are just realistic, but it's pretty unrealistic. She would live in a much better way in any mid-tier SEA city if she could get a job like that.
Despite she's trying to take her new job seriously, there's almost no meaningful interactions between her and her new asian cowakers shown in the film because it tries to use those funny cosplayers as a punchline in the ending to give the audience a shock.
I don't agree with those critics saying it's super racist, and it was probably not intended, but I don't think it's masterfully constructed to the point that it can rightfully avoid that kind of criticisms, either.
> shitty conductor in SEAsia is the worst thing that could happen to her.
The ending is her losing her ability to control 'time' when she conducts (She wears metronome headset to synch with the video). During the interview at the intro she said that was the thing she enjoyed the most about conducting. She lost what she ultimate desired in pursuit of frivolous pleasures and it makes for a fitting ending tbh.
SEAsia was just a random place where her scandalous actions were unknown.
>She lost what she ultimate desired in pursuit of frivolous pleasures and it makes for a fitting ending
after getting cancelled, she went back to her old house and she cried watching an old VHS of tv concert for kids that Bernstein giving a speech like ''I'm so happy that we share music with you young normies'' iirc. It implied that was her dream when she was a kid. And ironically, she could do that in SEAsia. I think this is the main reason why some people think the ending is rather a positive outcome for her, actually.
This and ''She lost what she ultimate desired'' aren't contradicted?
> ''I'm so happy that we share music with you young normies'' iirc. It implied that was her dream when she was a kid
>This and ''She lost what she ultimate desired'' aren't contradicted?
I don't think so.
My point was, being forced to be a human metronome her ability to change music and give it her flavor was taking away. She is merely there because the audience expects a conductor to an orchestra, but her presence has no impact on the music being performed. She is not a part of the aspect of sharing music, merely onlooker to music being played.
Re-watching the intro, maybe writing 'ultimate desire' was a hyperbole, but the ability to control time was what made the profession so attractive to her. Sure the ending sequence made it look like she getting ready for a fresh start and start a new positive chapter, but the very ending scene shouldnt be considered positive
>muh current year socio problems
The ending made me think of that lesbian porn video with a blond woman being fricked by 5 SEA bawds.
Source? For anthropological reasons
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