>good ol boy from Kansas
>doesn't act like it
He should have the personality and morals of Letterkenny or Hank Hill.
>good ol boy from Kansas. >doesn't act like it
>good ol boy from Kansas
>doesn't act like it
He should have the personality and morals of Letterkenny or Hank Hill.
FRICKING THIS. I've said Superman should be Super Hank Hill for years
Complete with accidental bigotry from his disgust with anything different from his farm
You have daddy issues
Why do you say that?
Cause he probably have it and anyone who says otherwise is definitely lying.
He went to college for journalism and moved to a major American city in his 20s. His politics are pretty consistent with that. This is especially true for the fact that as a farmer's son he wouldn't be especially friendly to corporate interests. You want to talk about weird politics, Batman's are notoriously out of sync with his background.
>He went to college for journalism and moved to a major American city in his 20s.
If they really did want to write Superman as a good heroic and moral person in current year. They shouldn't make him a journalist. Daily Planet in 2022 would have more in common with a propaganda rag like The Mary Sue or Vice news than something that actually cares about truth and not propaganda. And if Superman, a character who believes in truth worked for something like the daily planet, he'd be fired in a week for trying to publish truth.
The Daily Planet runs into the problem of print media being severely crippled today but this isn't a new phenomeon. Back in the 70s they transitioned Clark to being a TV anchorman for a bit but people just didn't like that. But even so, Lois was the type to go above and beyond even way back in the 40s and Clark would have to pull her out of trouble after she jumped pussy first into something Perry told her to stay away from. So the dynamic hasn't really changed much.
>Back in the 70s they transitioned Clark to being a TV anchorman for a bit but people just didn't like that.
It's a known fact that comic book fans only tolerate change when it really isn't a change of all.
Probably because having Clark regularly on national TV might mess with the suspension of disbelief for the secret identity stuff
I've seen one idea that I think would be great for a standalone Clark Kent series. He becomes an investigative journalist, gets sent off to a post in a US-involved war, and uncovers some dirty secrets. The CIA try to eliminate him, but he's Superman. Turn Clark Kent into superpowered Chelsea Manning.
This is in line with the 1938 characterization. Someone who could generally be described as "the man" would doing his normal thing but then this invulnerable maniac would put him in a precarious situation with ironic undertones. Really taking Superman back to that would be great since part of the attraction was that he was completely out of context for the bad guys. Corrupt billionaires and politicians who would otherwise be untouchable are suddenly taken aback when a guy shows up who can turn the tables. A "modern" Superman story in the vein of late 30's Action Comics would have something like a group of cops beating on black protesters while onlookers can only film with their phones and suddenly this guy in a cape lands in front of them and just...physically lifts them up and just no-sells the tasers and pepper spray, while delivering a snarky dad joke like "that doesn't look like serving and protecting to me!"
The way Batman makes the thug in the alley shit himself, Superman does the same thing to corrupt authority. The guys who are confident that they're untouchable, Superman pokes them in the chest and says "now what?" And he kind of enjoys watching the realization set in on their faces that the tables just turned. They were so bold when they were abusing people and now here's this invincible alien they not only can't abuse but can put them in the exact same position they were just subjecting other people to.
>a group of cops beating on black protesters
Damn, are you living in 197X? How can I get there, I wanna frick disco chicks.
No you don't. Bushes for days.
>Superman story in the vein of late 30's Action Comics would have something like a group of cops beating on black protesters while onlookers can only film with their phones and suddenly this guy in a cape lands in front of them and just...physically lifts them up and just no-sells the tasers and pepper spray,
Aaaaaand you lost me. You had me until you pulled out the bullshit race politics "alll cops are bastards' shit.
>The way Batman makes the thug in the alley shit himself, Superman does the same thing to corrupt authority. The guys who are confident that they're untouchable, Superman pokes them in the chest and says "now what?" And he kind of enjoys watching the realization set in on their faces that the tables just turned.
Superman doesn't believe in intimidating anyone. He believes in living by example. Not scaring people into being better but showing them how to be better. The whole point of Pattinson The Batman movie was that scare tactics and intimidating people with power doesn't work and just makes things worse by inspiring people to be worse than you. Or did the whole scene of Riddlers fanboys telling Batman "I'm Vengence too" not get the point across?
You know nothing about Superman.
1930s Superman was rough around the edges.
>Daily Planet in 2022 would have more in common with a propaganda rag like The Mary Sue or Vice news than something that actually cares about truth and not propaganda.
You know there is a real world that exists outside of your dumb culture war bullshit, right? A major newspaper in a city like Metropolis would absolutely still be a real newspaper because that is how it is in the real world.
>he thinks the culture war hasn’t permeated all aspects of life
Sweet summer child…
Bruce's politics make perfect sense in the context of what kind of people his parents were and his personal crusade following their deaths. If anything it's the Foxes whose politics and sensibilities were out of sync with their backgrounds, but Joker War kinda rectified that.
The Foxes?
Lucius Fox. The guy who make Batmans gadgets. Played by Morgan Freeman in the Nolan movies.
>The guy who make Batmans gadgets.
in the movies only. We don't see Fox making Batman gadgets until Batman INC. in the comics
>He went to college for journalism and moved to a major American city in his 20s. His politics are pretty consistent with that
Did you know that you can go to college and work in a major city and still be right-wing?
Hes a journalist dude
>Did you know that you can go to college and work in a major city and still be right-wing?
Only if you're deeper in the closet than a republican politician at a anti-gay hate rally.
Accuse your enemies of your own sins
Yeah but Clark isn't mentally challenged.
Superman should be a jerk
Now that's superman
There's always an explaination in the story for why Superman is behaving this way that doesn't contradict his character. In this one Superman had adopted Jimmy Olsen as his son, only to have a curse placed upon him that 'the one closest to him would die'. So he's acting like a dick to everyone and driving them away to protect them from the curse.
Even with the explanation Superman still thinks it’s funny to pull pranks on his friends.
It was to save her life of course.
>comic ends with Lois pigging out because she knows the fat ray is only temporary
>Superman groans because he has to pay for her dinner on Kent’s pay check
Legitimately a funny issue and not in the “lol isn’t the silver age…LE STUPID”
Modern DC would never let Superman have any negative character traits like that
This is wrong. In the story superman has a super computer that can predict the future. It predicts that he will destroy his own son, but becuase son and sun sounds the same, the computer meant that he would destroy his sun. (Superman built his own solar system, don't ask)
Sigh... There will never be a Lois Lane as beautiful as Margot Kidder in Superman 1
I'm sorry, what was that?
I sincerely hate morons who don't know the difference between the Midwest and Texas
I can see Clark being more like Hank since they moved away from the more nebbish version he had pre-crisis
But then what do you do with Superman?
>give them the same personality
Yikes
Someone pointed out he’d be like Ted Lasso and I’m furious at the accuracy
He's also a man smart enough to be a journalist when that job required actual skills and intelligence, OP. He was never gonna be a hillbilly like you want.
He's literally got two fathers. And bother have very different teaching styles.
His earth father taught him humility, kindness, and an affinity for work. His space dad taught him of superiority through strength and intelligence as well as being a beacon to his fellow man.
I wonder, was Superman raised as a Catholic or Protestant? He's also been taught Krypton's religion. Great Rao! And all that.
It's God-Knows-Where Kansas, definetly protestant
Protestant, Batman is catholic under every single good writer
High Anglican would make more sense.
The Waynes are Scots.
Second time in one day but
>Swears a vow in prayer at his bedside
>Yes, Father, I shall become a Bat
>Overarching Gothic Catholic imagery in persona and in Gotham
>Caped Crusader
>Refers to his war on crime as a "Mission"
>Entrusts the cowl to a Catholic Monastic Order when Bane breaks his back
>Post Crisis Bats is canonically the Keeper of the Grail
>Likes the sounds of church bells
>Parents buried with Catholic headstones
>Pals with John Constanine, Zatara, and Zatanna
>Lots of imagery involving Bats and the crucifix including but not limited to when he's gliding
I thought Batman was an atheist.
>he's smart so he must be an ashiest
Reddit moment
realistically I imagine that any DC superhero's religious beliefs after becoming a superhero would be incoherent to us. They've all seen multiple kinds of magic and divine intervention.
Another example of people having a stereotype of superman in their heads. Alot of people don't think of him that way but yeah superman's been known to be a little mischievous from time to time; especially when it comes to teaching people lessons.
>Why is it that Superman started out as a raging progressive who wrecked slums and went after corrupt politicians but often gets treated like the ultimate establishment tool, but Captain America seems to have gone in the exact opposite direction?
People liked superman, so as times change (even if what he did/does still isn't seen as 'problematic' by today's standards), he's seen as antiquated boomer trash and in people's heads becomes the establishment simply for being liked. Captain America was always propaganda and people know it nowadays.
Captain America goes the other way though, because of the old idea that alot of progressives mention, and alot of hard-love parents like to say 'I'm harsh because I care'. He cares about the ideals that america represents, but his loyalty isn't to the government or the land (as many actual US soldiers I've known have stated to be their own beliefs). Plus, a former tool of propaganda becoming disillusioned and wanting to make the place he cared about so much better is a great story.
In my hypothetical story he's not saying 'trust da gubment'. He's just DOING IT HIMSELF. He's not saying the police will get any better at giving a shit or that gun reform will do anything about it, he's just helping people who deserve it, who in a worse world (our world) would have been left to die.
"Things would be better if there some perfect being who could make everything better" is just some passive wish-fulfillment on your part. It's like an atheist telling a cancer victim they'll pray for God to fix their cancer.
>Super heroes are wish fulfillment
Yes, and?
>but his loyalty isn't to the government or the land (as many actual US soldiers I've known have stated to be their own beliefs).
It's not just beliefs, it's built into their oaths. The oath of office swears allegiance not to "America" or "The President" or even "the people." The oath swears allegiance to The Constitution. There's a good argument that July 4, 1776 isn't America's actual birthday but rather March 4, 1789, when the Constitution became the law of the land. It's when "these United States" became "The United States."
How can he be an atheist when he’s met Spectre and Zauriel?
Probably in the sense that he doesn't worship any god.
Because guilt?
>He's literally got two fathers. And bother have very different teaching styles.
I don't see why he even gives a shit about Jor-El beyond "my birth father? Neat. Hey Dad, did you know my birth father's name was Jor-El?"
Because his father is a super scientist who went against the grain to save his life. He isn't an autist like goku.
You have never met adopted people, have you?
Superman’s parents didn’t abandon him. They died to save his life
>They died to save his life
Plenty of adopted people have that backstory or something similar. Remember Mr Hyunh's daughter on Hey Arnold?
Jor-El uploaded his brain into a computer. So functionally he's still around.
Because he has memories of his life on krypton and has travelled back in time to meet his parents before.
>nooooo krypton is…le bad just like John Byrne said
Meh
>nooooo krypton is…le bad just like John Byrne said
>Meh
Not bad, just irrelevant. I know a Vietnamese woman who was an infant refugee quoted by white people and she has zero connection or interest in her heritage. Her reaction to the National Myth about the 100 children of a dragon and mountain fairy was "oh neat, but anyway..." like it mattered as much as saying what your breakfast was
Did that woman have hundreds of hours of prerecorded messages from her birth parents teaching her about life and morality and both her home country and new one?
Okay but why should Clark care? He's Clark Kent, not Kal-El. He has no connection to that name or the identity his dad's messages assume he has.
He does invoke Rao's name a lot. Which is kind of a weird thing to do for a guy raised from birth as an earthling.
religious syncratism on a very small scale. Also it's his favorite Fist of the North Star character.
>all Clark wants to do is talk about anime but Bruce only watches moeshit, J'onn is nothing but magical girls and Detective Conan, Barry won't move past the Toonami block that aired when he was in high school, Hal is a real robot snob, Arthur keeps pushing this Atlantean knockoff crap, and Diana is goddamn Reigay
What about Wally?
He believes Rao and the Christian god are the same thing. Although Jon Kent did say once that the Kryptonians believed science to be their god.
He’s from Kansas sure, but Clark traveled the world before he became Superman and studied journalism. There’s a lot more there than just “small town morals”.
And that's a good thing!
>Lex Luthor, I’m gonna kick your ass!
>Superboy? That boy ain’t right I’ll tell ya hwhat
my maaaan
The problem is that for most writers at DC people from Kansas are their political enemies so they are uncomfortable with writing Superman as if he was actually from Kansas.
I mean why wouldn’t a straight white male from Kansas who grew up on a farm, went to church on Sunday and is married to a woman and has a kid support their political beliefs, when most of those kinds of people in the real world hate their fricking guts for being democrat gay or trans or all of the above?
>they are uncomfortable with writing Superman as if he was actually from Kansas.
Superman is also an alien, this would strongly influence his perception of the world
Yes. But his morality and his stance on big issues, human life, how to treat others, etc. Comes from his humble white angle saxon protestant human upbringing. Something most writers at DC hate.
He barely thinks of himself as an alien. He thinks of himself as a regular human that just so happens to be an alien god.
Counterpoint: Why would an immigrant journalist that's traveled the world, speaks several languages, that lives in a major metropolitan hub have small town values?
I have travelled the world and speak Spanish travelling the world shows how great America is and why we have to preserve our way of life
Do you also speak Chinese? Superman speaks Chinese.
>Speaks several languages
Just from what I've read, he speaks English, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, and Kryptonian. I've got to assume he's also spoken Spanish at least once.
also, Ancient Greek since he has spoken with Amazons on their island
That’s the Injustice version, he’s canonically more moronic than regular Superman.
>I mean why wouldn’t a straight white male from Kansas who grew up on a farm, went to church on Sunday and is married to a woman and has a kid support their political beliefs, when most of those kinds of people in the real world hate their fricking guts for being democrat gay or trans or all of the above?
Because superman is the best of what we could be. Maybe he doesn't *get* kids these days, being all trans, but he loves everyone regaurdless.
>it's their problem, not mine, that i'm mad because superman wasn't raised by the explicit bigots i'm convinced are 100% of the population of an area with millions of people i don't know and didn't turn him into the same to parrot my extremist garbage 24/7
wow what insight
I was just explaining why nobody at DC and WB can write Superman as a human being these days. Because to them people from Kansas are deplorables who voted for trump, the wall, a muslim ban etc. Not human beings. At this point they should just move Smallville to California.
That Superman sure does have a good head on his shoulders, Truth, Justice and the American way is all you need
>Hank, he's an illegal alien!
Dale stfu you giblit-head.
Superman was always knee deep in politics because he wasn't trying to uphold the status quo but challenge it, which makes total sense for something written in the middle of the Great Depression with another world war looming. If this panel came out today people would yell about how "Superman is getting all political, man!" but...that's literally his origin story.
>Superman was always knee deep in politics because he wasn't trying to uphold the status quo but challenge it, which makes total sense for something written in the middle of the Great Depression with another world war looming.
A character that, without the backing of the government (IE Captain America, or anyone who works for Shield) or some company (IE Booster Gold), takes 'justice' and doing what he thinks is right into his own hands, using violence if necessary, is innately political. Because whatever he does, that's gonna upset someone. Alot of people have this idea of superman as a stereotype without actually knowing that much about the character.
Honestly we need a good, iconic superman who is the change he wants to see in the world, and inspires us. Our world is dark right now, everyone is so nihilistic and hopeless, and it feels like another big war could break out any day now. I really feel like we could use that hope.
Really what I want to see is a 'superman stops a school shooting' comic. Some people might call it insensitive, but I say "what's offensive about writing a story where children who deserved better got the justice they deserved"
Because you're writing a piece of fiction where an all-powerful being swoops in and solves the problem without any issue, which comes across as insensitive and tone-deaf as you yourself pointed out. Take the "Superman demolishes the slums" issue. He destroys the homes of a large amount of people and walks away assuring them that the government will build better housing, completely skipping out on the fact that Superman just intentionally made a bunch of people homeless on the assumption that better housing will be built in the future.
A lot of those old issues of Action Comics come off as a comedy. Your sympathies are supposed to be with the harried citizens of Metropolis as this well-meaning but insane do-gooder performs good deeds in the most intrusive way possible.
It was the 1930s. People had much lower expectations of superman.
>Our world is dark right now, everyone is so nihilistic and hopeless
And a guy in blue underwear is going to suddenly make things better? If you want hope. Real hope. Go to church. Stop trying to make Superman Jesus.
>Honestly we need a good, iconic superman who is the change he wants to see in the world
The thing is when Superman is the change he wants to see in the world. It's usually written as a bad thing. See Injustice and Red Son.
>Really what I want to see is a 'superman stops a school shooting' comic.
I definitely would support that. Frick. Static Shock did that and it's considered by many to be one of the best episodes of the series.
>The thing is when Superman is the change he wants to see in the world. It's usually written as a bad thing. See Injustice and Red Son.
Superman is ALWAYS the change he wants to see in the world. I'm gonna be real with you most of what I know of superheroes is cartoons and movies. My point was we need a good MOVIE superman that actually IS superman. Most versions of him non-comic-nerds know is the man of steel movies or injustice, which characterize him as, at best an emo frickwad that doesn't give a shit about anyone, or an authoritarian psycho at worst.
Based x100.
>Most versions of him non-comic-nerds know is the man of steel movies or injustice, which characterize him as, at best an emo frickwad that doesn't give a shit about anyone, or an authoritarian psycho at worst.
In a world where politicians, celebrities, religious authorities, people with power don't give a shit about ordinary people and always abuse their power either for selfish gain or for 'the greater good'. Someone like Injustice Superman or Homelander resonates more with people than Superman. Because there's nobody in the real world who's had power who hasn't abused it at least a little bit. Even good people with power had under the table dealings to keep that power, or owned slaves. Why wouldn't Superman? Absolute power corrupts blah blah you know the rest.
In a world as fricked as ours that's exactly the world that NEEDS a Superman. YEAH in real life someone with that much power would be a dick, we all know that; we've known that our whole lives, so why not write a story that can strike some hope into people? Something positive. Write stories about a man who, given the means to do whatever he wants, does the right thing?
It's fiction.
>Why wouldn't Superman?
Because he's a good person, simple as that. In real life, the reason evil people have power is because the system is set up in such a way that being a bad person helps you gain power. Superman was BORN with that power, he didn't have to step on everyone below him to gain it, so the chances of him being a good person are the same as anyone else.
>It's fiction.
Doesn't mean it's not boring. Writing a story about a perfect person being perfect is great for founding a religion. Not for telling an ongoing story where you have to give him new challenges every issue.
I don't think it is boring. I think someone holding strong to their values and trying to fix a broken world as best he can is a great story. You can very easily give him new challenges every issue, I just think you're being a pretentious edgelord.
>In real life, the reason evil people have power is because the system is set up in such a way that being a bad person helps you gain power.
And the people who write Superman are part of that system. They don't like superman because he makes them self conscious of their own flaws and issues and what they had to do to get that power. He's virtuous, They're very much not. So the only thing they can do is tear him down and bring him down to their level. Doesn't help that the majority of them are liberals and instantly assume that Superman would hate them and their pro-diversity anti-cop anti-christian pro-sex agenda by virtue of being a straight white (raised)Christian male with super strength who tells people to obey the law and is married with a kid. I've made my peace a long time ago with Superman never getting a good live action movie ever again. Because the people who own superman and write Superman hate what he stands for because Hollywood is full of people who don't believe virtue exists.
Superman is dead and never coming back. Hollywood and the entertainment industry are just raping the corpse to make themselves feel better by comparison, like the nihilists they are.
I don't think superman would hate gay or non-white people anyway tbh. I've said, and so have a couple of other people in this thread, that he realistically would have an "I dont get it, but I don't hate you for it" attitude.
>he realistically would have an "I dont get it, but I don't hate you for it" attitude
You can't have the 'i don't get it but i don't hate you for it' attitude anymore. because it's never enough. You can't just be tolerant. You have to be supportive in every way, and if you're not you're the villain. In the eyes of these people, if Supermans not flying into the capital building and throwing Clarence Thomas into the sun for repealing Roe. Then he's not a hero.
>because it's never enough
Superman isn't the kind of person to bend to peer pressure regardless of the situation. Let them think you're the villain, as long as you know you're doing what's right. He's been seen as not enough in the eyes of the public before. I am 100% pro-gay myself, but I'm not gonna act like this character would necessarily be that way. We can have a variety of characters,
Well you're certainly more mature and understand Superman more than the majority of the people who write for him or make movies for him these days.
It sucks that the entire Superhero movie bubble will burst without one good Superman movie to show for it. That's not just a tragedy. That's a moral indictment of DC and WB.
The writers define the character.
If the writer writing Superman is shit then Superman will be shit. You can't separate a character from their writer.
>We can have a variety of characters,
Literally the best superhero stories come from genuine ideological differences in people who are otherwise allies GL/GA was GOAT
You never read that shit.
I did, I loved it. I didn't read ALL of it, but as far in as I got it was great.
There's a big difference between "I don't get it but you do you," to "I do not care enough about this situation to take a stand, but I will still vote for the politicians that are against it." Being apolitical is okay as long as people aren't being hurt by non-action. Superman isn't the type to throw anyone in the sun anyway, he would never escalate to physical violence unless he was threatened.
This is literally the internal conflict of Superman's character though. "Whats So Funny About Truth Justice and The American Way" is about what he's willing to do and how much is too much. People in universe get mad at Superman all the time for not killing. He often exiles himself when he feels like the world has rejected him. He's constantly torn between person A telling him to mind his own business and someone else telling him he isn't doing enough. And there's really no happy middle and even if there was its a moving target. That conflict is fundamental to the story.
Republican trump supporters don’t get Superman. But liberals in Hollywood really don’t get Superman.
The external conflict mirrors the in-story one. Even in Metropolis there is going to be someone yelling at Superman to throw Clarence Thomas into the sun while standing on the opposite side of the street is someone telling Superman to throw an abortion doctor into the sun. And then there are the main characters like Lois and Perry who act as Clark's window into people with reasonable worldviews who don't want to see ANYONE thrown into the sun but acknowledge that there are problems in the world. Problems that can't be solved by punching them away.
Don't forget the people who just want to see somebody, anybody, thrown into the Sun.
It doesn't even have to be that extreme. If he really wanted to, Superman could make people do shit without threatening violence, he just has to be willing to no-sell other people's violence. He could decide "no, Texas, these abortion clinics stay open." And then just stand in the way when the cops come to shut it down. Someone asking him to do that would be a moral quandary though because just by being Superman he's aware that it can be a slippery slope. This is a guy who gave Batman kryptonite. So he might want to do something but still refrain out of public interest. Because even if making this demand is morally justified when is it time to stop making demands? He's broken laws before but usually when there's an immediate danger. Doing it to influence the political direction of the country makes him uneasy because he doesn't fully trust himself to not become Injustice Superman. The irony is that having the fear that he isn't moral is evidence that he is moral.
>And the people who write Superman are part of that system. They don't like superman because he makes them self conscious of their own flaws and issues and what they had to do to get that power.
Very few people writing Superman are powerful. A few have B-tier fame like Grant Morrison but its not like you're seeing Fortune 500 CEOs and politicians writing comic books.
We did have Mister Rogers so there's that. He walked the walk.
>The thing is when Superman is the change he wants to see in the world. It's usually written as a bad thing. See Injustice and Red Son.
I think it's more that Superman, when written properly, is one of those "I may not understand you but I'll defend you" types. Whereas Injustice and Red Son are "I know what's best for you and I'll make you do it" types.
Like, people clown on it all the time but I'm thinking of that one issue of Grounded where he just spends a day sitting with a suicidal woman and says "If there's even a chance you'll change your mind I'll help you, but if there isn't I won't stop you."
What I took from that is that he wants you to make the right choice and he'll model what he thinks good behavior is, but when he makes the choice for you, THAT is when he goes off the deep end and becomes an evil type.
>Really what I want to see is a 'superman stops a school shooting' comic
Superman: Birthright, Issue 6, Pages 1-4
You've probably seen the third page in the sequence posted here a few times.
Shame that's written by Mark Waid. Who is a horrible human being.
Explain?
>Everyone from a certain place grows up to have the same ideals
You gotta get out of the house more. I live in the deep south and you can find plenty of people who aren't the typical hillbilly, redneck, or 'good ol boy' archetypes.
The south is horribly gerrymandered, too. The representation of the region doesn't correlate with the electorate's political leanings as much as they'd want you to believe.
>The USA is horribly gerrymandered, too. The representation of the region doesn't correlate with the electorate's political leanings as much as they'd want you to believe.
FTFY, partisan
Imagine unironically singling out the red team when the blue team does it too, and both see you as disposable pawn
So you agree its a bad thing then.
>I live in the deep south and you can find plenty of people who aren't the typical hillbilly, redneck, or 'good ol boy' archetypes.
And Letterkenny and KOTH aren't as basic of stereotypes either
Didn't say they were. The point is anyone who grew up in Kansas could turn out to be like Letterkenny, Hank Hill, or someone totally opposite. Because living in Kansas is no guarantee you will grow up to have a certain personality, ideals, or character.
But we know the kind of upbringing Clark hat usually leads to that same kind of personality.
"usually" isn't "always".
Saying he "should" have had a certain personality is just odd, as it suggests there is an obligation to adhere to the "usual" personality, which isn't the case. Some people are outliers regardless of their upbringing.
Writing a character as a "typical" example of their upbringing isn't necessarily bad, but the character isn't obligated to be written in a typical fashion. Protagonists are very often written as atypical examples of their communities intentionally.
Most people in Kansas aren't raised by saints who never think a bad thought about anyone and are pretty much universally depicted as unconditionally kind and supportive.
Why is it that Superman started out as a raging progressive who wrecked slums and went after corrupt politicians but often gets treated like the ultimate establishment tool, but Captain America seems to have gone in the exact opposite direction? It's hard to imagine 40's Cap (much less the red-hating 50's Cap) ever saying anything like pic related
It's not that cut and dry though. Cap's first issue where he's punching out Hitler came out before America entered the war. The idea that America should get involved like that was very controversial at the time. So he was always a "spirit of America over the politics of America" kind of guy.
>spirit of America over the politics of America
At the time of his first appearance 60% of Americans supported neutrality, kind of the opposite of your argument.
Yes, you've already stated that it would insensitive so I'm not exactly sure why you're having an issue understanding that I'm saying that no one would like it because it was insensitive.
>At the time of his first appearance 60% of Americans supported neutrality, kind of the opposite of your argument.
That's exactly my argument. 60% of people supported neutrality and Cap was like "frick that." Someone completely supportive of the present state of America wouldn't do that. He put the spirit of America over the then-current political reality. It'd be like how he would support integration back in the day even when such a thing was wildly unpopular.
It's kind of hard to say that he represents the spirit of America in this context because he's going against public opinion, government position, and geopolitical philosophy of America's founders. It's actually a government agent operating clandestinely against the will of the American public by a government violating its own stated position; that's some straight up Iran-Contra shit. It's easy enough to make a claim about what he would do based on post-hoc historical knowledge, but in reality it was just Simon and Kirby offering their political opinion. Cap, notably, didn't support integration until after it was already a thing in the real world.
the spirit of America IS going against the public opinion you goof ball.
That's why everything's built around "Separation of Powers".
America as a pure democracy is a meme, same as America as a pure oligarchic republic is a meme.
America is a state of perpetual civil conflict
>often gets treated like the ultimate establishment tool
This is really localized to the 1950s, not even the entire silver age, just that one decade, where he came across like a police officer, and then Frank Miller where he was a straight up government stooge. There are also a few sporadic stories where writers poorly interpreted his morality as lawful stupid. Things like letting the Joker run around as the ambassador of Iran because it would be illegal to interfere.
>yo, fricking based-ass , israelite (but yo dem my homies frfr n frick you homosexuals who proliferate that meme, but haha le bignose drawing is p. funny, ok?) old man comic writers
Unless the story is taking place from BEFORE he became a Superhero, this sort of characterization is insulting and idiotic.
Clark's not just a Hick from the Sticks, he's a prize winning reporter that's been making his name in the big city for years, not to mention a Superhuman ambassador of mankind that's been on hundreds of other planets, interacted with millions of cultures.
Him being unworldly despite this because "HE'S FROM KANSAS!" is asinine.
But the values he was raised with inform his actions as an adult. The reason he's a hero is because he was raised to be a virtuous person by virtuous people. As opposed to homelander who was raised in a prison cell by scientists who didn't give a shit about him.
>But the values he was raised with inform his actions as an adult.
That's true but let's think about what values actually are. Is "people have the right to self determine the course of their lives" a value? Or is "The gays are immoral and need to be exterminated a value"?
Because "Kansas Values" could mean either of those depending on who you talk to, and for all the talk about how the people writing Superman hate middle america, they seem to be ascribing the former value set to the region, and the point of contention is that it's not the latter.
>they seem to be ascribing the former value set to the region, and the point of contention is that it's not the latter.
If Superman said "I'm a Christian so I can't support Homosexuality." he'd be cancelled and Clark Kent would have his identity leaked to the public and doxxed. It's not that he'd be a villain or be hurting or mistreating people based on their lifestyles. It's that by comparison to the values of modern blue state america, where his writers live. He already is a villain. It's not just that you let homosexuals live their lives, you have to actively support them and if you don't. Well 'silence is violence'
>If Superman said "I'm a Christian so I can't support Homosexuality." he'd be cancelled
Ah but again, why can't you support homosexuality AND be a christian? Because there are five churches in my immediate vicinity that all have pride flags out front.
If you're defining your value system based on hatred of others that's on you.
>why can't you support homosexuality AND be a christian?
Paul in the new testament was pretty strict about that.
Is Paul's last name Christ?
Jesus is God. And God nuked a whole city in the Bible for it, and the gave the israelites laws that stoned people for it. And Paul was Gods voice on earth.
>Jesus is God. And God nuked a whole city in the Bible for it,
Sodom was nuked for being generally horrible, one example of which was the citizens trying to rape his angels.
Go on fuccboi. Quote Leviticus. I'm begging ya.
>Go on fuccboi. Quote Leviticus. I'm begging ya
See
Leviticus is technically Jesus before Jesus. Kinda the point of the "Word of God made Flesh" thing
Back when his name was Saul, Paul's main contribution to Chrisitanity was working with the Romans to oppress them.
So frick what he's got to say about other historically marginalized people.
>was working with the Romans to oppress them
Tangentially. He was doing it for the Pharisees as he was one.
>So frick what he's got to say about other historically marginalized people.
This just in, Christians are a victim class now. Also good job missing the point of the Road to Damascus
>Ah but again, why can't you support homosexuality AND be a christian?
You can. You'd just be supporting a sinful lifestyle, so would be behaving sinfully.
Obviously clark's parents are basically liberal for their area.
Also, let's not get outta hand her kids: pls remember God as """""""""HE""""""" is popularly conceived is fake af, if you aren't some smoothbrain.
>Obviously clark's parents are basically liberal for their area.
Honestly? I think it's more that Clark and his parents are what conservatives claim to be rather than what they are in practice. "Help your neighbor but mind your business, people need to stand up on their own too feet instead of being babied" types.
If they were liberal they wouldn’t have taken him to church on Sunday
Sure if you want a Superman that looks nothing like Superman. It'll be like Peter Pan. You can tell a Peter Pan story but Disney still has the trademark of their versions. Superman's entire costume will still be off limits. You'd have to make him look like Homelander or something.
>Sure if you want a Superman that looks nothing like Superman. It'll be like Peter Pan. You can tell a Peter Pan story but Disney still has the trademark of their versions. Superman's entire costume will still be off limits.
Cool headcanon man, but that's not how trademark works.
That's exactly how trademark works. Coca-Cola's logo is older than Superman and it isn't going to fall into the public domain.
Coca Cola was never protected by copyright.
Trademarks can only protect protect logo-designs, company names and marketing phrases.
The only way you can trademark a character design is by incorporating them in your company's logo.
>logo-designs
What do you think this is?
It's a logo, and it is trade marked. So that particular design you won't be allowed to use.
But all you have to do to get around it is to make a small alteration to it. You can still keep the blue suit and red cape, and even call him Superman.
I like Todd Mcfarlene but this particular issue was head up his own ass pretentious. You aren't the messiah Todd.
True but its going to be weird as hell. They probably wouldn't to keep the peace but Marvel could soon be able to just...use Superman and Batman. It'll be like how both companies have Zeus. Except one of them won't have the symbol. Not sure that would work. It would seem too much like a knockoff. Like buying "Nike" but the swoosh is wrong.
That's never going to happen. Trademark and copyright are two different things. Copyright expires but trademarks last as long as you keep them active.
Zorro and Sherlock Holmes are a little different. Superman's symbol is very distinct.
Hank hill has the morality of what creepy self righteous white city dorks think people in "the fly over" states have.
Dude wtf is this? You some britbong having a hard time or some shit. You some DC intern in Cali being paid to spam Superman threads while drinking piss and vinegar? Open up, OP. We're here for you to call out your fricking homosexualry before saying kys.
Clark's parents thought it would be just fine to raise a baby they found in a spaceship. They're clearly more open-minded than most of the national population. If you're looking to Clark's heritage to define his personality he's more likely to be a loopy cultist or a spaced out jock-hippie like Joe Rogan.
If the writers were at all emotionally honest then Superman should have serious issues with his son becoming a soft-boi homosexual.
So a good conservative midwesterner what...disowns his gay son? beats the gay out of him? What do you want Clark to actually do?
It always falls back to beatings with you queers, doesn’t it? Try not to project your own personal fetishes so much.
Anyway, I would say he could try to connect with Jon to see if he can figure out a way to help him overcome the obvious emotional/physical abuse that led to him becoming gay. If anyone can do it, it’s Superman.
Man love isn't gonna make Jon any less gay.
So your saying it’s not genetic, but it’s still incurable? I thought sexuality was fluid and on a spectrum.
Tell him it’s ok to have the feelings he does but doesn’t need to make his whole identity being a flaming queen
he could use tecvh at the fortress to fix his mental illness or have Manhunter do it.
the most ironic part is that the son he had with another man is the straight one who embodies his values better than the defective one he had with his wife
Christianity doesn’t say to mistreat gay people. Just that if there are gays in your church or your family to “give them over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh”. In short. If you’re gay? There’s the door. Come back when you realize being gay is a sin.
At least it’s a step up from stoning.
>Conservative evangelicals are so fricked in the head they need to project their own ignorant bigotry on the paragon of truth and Justice who is unrelentingly compassionate and empathetic to those around him especially people who are marginalized and attacked by cruel bigots
This really activates my almonds
Ok groomer
I don't know why you have to bring the Catholic Church into this dude
Statistically equal if not lower to any other institution, the Spotlight cases were all gay pederasts, shuffling them around was literally the secular psychology response of the day etc
It’s not like democrats obsessed with gender and progress are any better at not projecting their own issues with Superman onto the character.
>Jon: "Dad, I'm gay."
>Clark: (*furrows brow*) ...Who's the top?"
Why aren't Superman fans as dedicated as DBZ fans?
When was the last time you saw a Superman fan animation?
>When was the last time you saw a Superman fan animation?
It's been a while.
post comicbooks with those ideals
No. He's a college-educated person from Kansas who moved to NYC and has a successful professional career in a creative industry. Those people IRL are liberal as frick. He'd be like a stereotypical hipster if anything.
Just because he was raised in rural America doesn't automatically mean he's a bigot. He's a simple guy who was raised with values like justice and fairness while also actually respecting people no matter where they came from. Not like the guys who say that they stand for that stuff when just use it as a shield to mask their prejudice, like so many Republicans do.
>Just because he was raised in rural America doesn't automatically mean he's a bigot.
According to the current cultural definition of bigot, it most certainly does. The Kents are the type who certainly would be Q Boomers who thought Trump really won 2020
>He's a simple guy who was raised with values like justice and fairness while also actually respecting people no matter where they came from. Not like the guys who say that they stand for that stuff when just use it as a shield to mask their prejudice, like so many Republicans do
Dial 8 for Seething troony Cope
The fact that he comes from rural America and you think he has to be a outdated redneck like Trumpers is really telling. They were old school right wing, not whatever the frick is in politics now.
>The fact that he comes from rural America and you think he has to be a outdated redneck like Trumpers is really telling
Maybe it has to do with the fact that I actually fricking live in rural America where pretty much everyone voted Trump.
So you live surrounded by rednecks? I can relate, I feel sorry for you.
No that's when the party of small government actually meant that, not freaking out and trying to cancel stufd everytime gay dudes appear in Disney movies.
I enjoy it, I'd hate the opposite
>They were old school right wing
So, basically, Nazi bigots by the double-standards of your side today.
It would be easy enough to tell in the 1950s. What were the Kents' thoughts about Joe McCarthy and the Red Scare? Did that ever come up in the comics?
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/89914/whats-story-behind-superman-comic
Can't find anything on communism but we do have an old political cartoon about fighting against xenophobia. And he did fight against the Klan as opposed to calling them very fine people.
>Trump
>right wing
Besides his personality Trump was basically a 90s Democrat
It’s that bush era was NeoCons (liberal) that makes Trump look far right
No he isnt
>minorities say they want to have representation in comics
>10-20 threads a day about how SJW woke identity politics are ruining comics
>chuds say they want the most popular character in comics to have the personality of an ignorant hayseed just because he’s from Kansas because they think everyone should be just like them
>”YAAAS KWEEEN!!”
This board is a joke
Not everyone is a caricature.