They get sent to Double Hell anon. The sinners and demons who perish in the purges get sent there as well. Lucifer and his cronies have no influence over that dark place.
That sounds like a much more interesting setting than red-tinted gay California hell
The whole idea was put together by anons in an old thread, I'll see if I can find it. Ideas ranged from Cruelty Squad to Ultrakill to Sunless Sea to the Commonwealth of Australia.
Someone also brought up this one european comic where this guy dies and wakes up in the afterlife and is also a vampire, and in the afterlife the most evil people are the most powerful while their victims are reduced to intangible shades, or something like that
What a fricking coward. >I want to make a setting about HELL where all the EVIL BAD PEOPLE GO >B-but not TOO bad, i don't wanna have to depict pedos or racists or dictators or soldiers or anyone who isn't just a modern day californian
It's so obvious that Viv really never wanted this setting to be hell, the world of this setting is too cutesy and friendly to be worthy of that name, she should have just set the whole thing into an alternate furry sci-fi world, because it requires the guts to make a story in which takes place in hell that actually makes you feel like it is, well, HELL, the place in which the all the mentally deranged, phychopaths, pedophiles and much more will go, guts which Viv obviously doesn't, and will never have
i think there was a tweet where she boasted that they were "reclaiming" hell since christians use it to fearmonger against being gay and stuff, Which really puts it in perspective.
the "hell" of hazbin hotel is, in spirit, the idea of hell that one uses as deflection when some christian tells them they're going to hell by saying "yeah im going to hell, thats where all the bad b***hes at! imma party in hell! heaven is boring!"
that kinda shit.
if it were a more culturally consistent version of hell, then there wouldnt be all the memes about "hazbin hotel fans when they go to hell and its actually just eternal torment and theres no gay furries making sex jokes"
9 months ago
Anonymous
homosexuals burn in Hell. Viz will see for herself.
9 months ago
Anonymous
This is exactly Viv's views. She thinks hell is a fun party place with cotton candy and friendly demon lords with moral standards to "reclaim it."
9 months ago
Dood
Well, Hell is other people after all.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Funny, becauase to reclaim something youd have to have owned it to begin with.
9 months ago
Anonymous
After how the Cherub episode treated Heaven, I was worried for Hazbin, when HB S2 became a fricking disaster I had next to no hope and after Adam got revealed and proved the old audition sheet leak was real I lost all hope.
What's going to be a point of Hazbin? Redemption? Heaven sucks ass and Viv is going to go in the edgy teenager direction where Hell is the better place to go.
But I know the direction Viv is going to take Hazbin, she's going to try and make me feel bad for Angel and company with piles and piles of stereotypical melodrama. Why the frick would I feel bad for a Mafia member turned porn star or a cannibalistic serial killer, both of whom are still terrible people, before anyone says anything villain protagonist shows and movies who have unremorseful and total butthole leads usually don't make you feel bad for them.
Viv is such a fricking hack, the backstory of her characters like Blitzo and certainly Angel and Alastor have them be absolutely terrible people who deserve everything bad that happens to them, but she's too goddamn blinded by the fact she's a massive fujo and shit that she wants the audience to feel bad for these characters without them doing anything to earn sympathy.
9 months ago
Anonymous
This is exactly Viv's views. She thinks hell is a fun party place with cotton candy and friendly demon lords with moral standards to "reclaim it."
It's just what happens when people read a single summary of Paradise lost and run with it.
kinda had a stupid idea of instead of using hell as it setting use purgatory.Like your not evil enough for hell nor are you good enough for heaven so charlie set up the happy hotel to get the ones who are close to getting sent to hell a chance of redemption and moving in favor of going up.
9 months ago
Dood
Being redeemed in Hell makes some sense.
Just look at Azrael and Dumah.
What a fricking coward. >I want to make a setting about HELL where all the EVIL BAD PEOPLE GO >B-but not TOO bad, i don't wanna have to depict pedos or racists or dictators or soldiers or anyone who isn't just a modern day californian
Oh boy do I have a comic for you!
9 months ago
Anonymous
Nta but I do love me some early 00's furry edginess. Thanks for the recommendation
9 months ago
Anonymous
Enjoy the ride anon, its actually about to end soon.
9 months ago
Anonymous
Nta but I do love me some early 00's furry edginess. Thanks for the recommendation
Enjoy the ride anon, its actually about to end soon.
JACK is unironically a pretty good webcomic from that time period. It's still a total meme but it blows vivs shit out of the water.
9 months ago
Anonymous
I read it when I was 12 and I was obsessed with this comic, I just liked the more uncompromising depiction of hell that Viv just doesn't have the stones to do.
9 months ago
Anonymous
true fur hell
9 months ago
Anonymous
There are a couple webcomics from that era that were really awesome even if theyre creators were nutbag schizos. Problem is theyre so obscure I cant even find them on TV Tropes
The concept of Hazbin is pretty solid imo and in better hands it would probably make a good show. Anything but red furry California would be an improvement
>The concept of Hazbin is pretty solid imo and in better hands it would probably make a good show.
Alas, so many cartoons are "pretty cool concept that is ruined by the moronic writers"
He only raped an adult so far, so he gets a pass from Viv for now.
Alastor can murder and cannibalize, but he has a special place in Viv's heart as her middle school favorite so he's allowed to do it without consequence for now as well.
That premise sort of makes sense at first.
But it falls apart when you realize Viv wants to call her stupid setting "Hell," even though she does not want to address any controversial subject matter. She can't handle it, she does not have the writing abilities or nuance to accomplish it.
She just made the setting "hell" as a social statement so she can "reclaim it." She's a hack.
I don't know which is more surprising to me: that this b***h is still stirring drama up on a regular basis like a decade later, or that so many people willingly suck up to her.
The fact that being a murderer or rapist is considered a lesser crime than being racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist completely destroyed the world for me. It just makes no fricking sense why opinions are worse than actively and knowingly harming a human being.
My thought was Hell is basically ghostzone (Danny Phantom/YuYu Hakusho) which explains why I got a more Saturday morning cartoon for adults but forgot to have them actually do interesting things and not have a twat for a protagonist. Frick, even Ember is what Verosika essentially is but Ember at least was interesting and had screen time to be a b***h and Danny and Sam dealing with her was interesting which I what I thought Blitzo and Loona should have been doing instead of whining the whole time.
Ember actually got a chance to play music.
That entire music sequence in episode 8 could have been Verosika playing as a favor to Tex, and avoided Kesha fricking the budget.
not just the Overlords but my opinion on the Series itself (even though if asked this question before) are they're going to be Adult Cartoons amongst other mainstream stuff after it eventually becomes a full series that are going to look, sound and feel like (and even have an art style that inspired from) Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss?
There should have been many Overlords that are 600 to many millennia years old Hellborn/Sinners that have managed to beat the odds, made deals to get by and being extremely cutthroat.
And as others have stated previously taking out the genociders, rapists, torturers out of the setting is extremely dumb and ruins the setting of
what Hell is supposed to be.
Probably just leaves them to frick around in their little ring. They aren't allowed in any others, so as long as the hellborn aren't too bothered I don't see why he would care.
He doesn't give a single frick about them because even the most powerful of Overlords would get their shit kicked in by an Ars Goetia, much less him. I hope the series makes it clear that if Charlie really wanted to she could take Alastor out as easily as Dr. Manhattan killed Rorschach.
They look cool, I like them. It ruins them that some of them are trapped in a shitty, clingy soap opera like abusive relationship. Like come on, give me some cool and ruthless leader that doesn't have to go for the ''B-B-B-But...but...I have feelings too. They matter uwuwuwu'' bullshit
I keep hearing people say that Viv is a "fujoshi", which IIRC is a weeb term for MLM shipping female. I gotta wonder though, what marks her out so clearly as a "fujo" instead of just a woman writing a gay couple? what are the tells? what makes someone a fujo?
Viv is a fujo cause she makes almost everyone homosexual. Especially the men. There’s really no other reason than she shoves it down our throats rather than anything else as seen by Stolas.
Overlords should be exclusively human earth-born sinners that went to hell and then gained power and clawed their way up the hell hierarchy until they reached the maximum rank that someone born on earth can ever achieve, everything above overlords are beings that were never human
Do you think the folks on Twitter and Reddit will finally take notice what the frick is going on with Hazbin if August ends without a tweet again or if it's just a useless picture?
It's been so long that any real criticism is immediately shut down by crazed dick riders. That's all that's really left for Viv now, the small loud minority that would still eat her shit up if she called them homosexuals. They'll wait forever if they have to.
you know if the creators of hazbin had any self awareness, hazbin could be a great allegory for liberalism and a deconstruction of the assumptions that underpin egalitarianism, altruism, pacifism, and all that typa shit.
i mean think about it.
a white coded young woman raised in the lap of luxury, despite incredulity from her parents who have had a lifetime to see how bad things really are, takes the weight of the world on her shoulders with blind idealism and a fetishistic obsession with surface level ideas of "niceness".
She puts herself on a mission to prove that if people just "get therapy" and inundate themselves with the same ideal of idle, hedonistic "niceness" she has that they'll eventually become good people who can integrate into a perfect society (heaven) without causing trouble.
In this sense, hell being basically red california works in the shows favour, because it makes it even more obviously analogous to real life blue states where politics is defined by naive "luxury beliefs" like equity, diversity, promiscuity, and harm reduction that stand in stark contrast to the declining standards of living and security that present themselves as poor, more amoral people are increasingly unable to shoulder the moral and economic costs that come from sharing or at least cynically taking advantage of these "luxury beliefs"
I want to summon sinners and enslave them. I want them to be back on Earth, but they are unable to enjoy the simplest pleasures like a cool breeze because they are too busy working in my china-style workshop. I want the female sinners to be sex slaves to whoever buys their contracts while keeping the cutest or hottest for myself. I want to be the sole supplier of unpaid labor for desperate or uncaring business. I want Amazon and its likes to become the second Hell of the Dead.
Angel havin an "oh-noseis overdosies"
unfortunately he can't die from them down here, he's just gotta hang back and wait it out
symtoms include >dizziness >tinnitus >heartburn >stabbing migraine >heart beating out of your chest >it hurts to breathe
and for angel in particular >reliving the day you died >remembering why you're down here >remembering all those times you said "hell is fun, actually"
get better soon angel, the acid bukakke scene is in 12 minutes
So are characters from HB- Stolas for example- ever going to make an appearance in HH, or vice versa? Or would the copyright issues with A24 prevent that?
I agree, she’s the prime example of what Vivzie does to characters when she wants to woobify her pets. If only she were in a better show
Frick I meant Stolas but I wasn't really wrong, all the HB characters got flanderized at a breakneck speed so any of the characters showing up in Hazbin Hotel would be detrimental
I cannot tell demons and overlords and regular people apart. Not to mention ring leaders.
Also you'd think that in a world where some of the residents get perma killed periodically if someone presents an idea to prevent it they'd be at least curious.
I don't understand if imps are a concept why isn't Charlie hiring them to work at the hotel? Heck, if she's the princess off hell I guess she could just order them to do so.
>The most evil people in hell are rewarded with magical power and influence
If that was true, hell would be ruled by the likes of Attila the Hun, Misc Pot or the Rothschilds, not a bunch of gay californian furries.
They get sent to Double Hell anon. The sinners and demons who perish in the purges get sent there as well. Lucifer and his cronies have no influence over that dark place.
So hell is just purgatory then.
The whole idea was put together by anons in an old thread, I'll see if I can find it. Ideas ranged from Cruelty Squad to Ultrakill to Sunless Sea to the Commonwealth of Australia.
Someone also brought up this one european comic where this guy dies and wakes up in the afterlife and is also a vampire, and in the afterlife the most evil people are the most powerful while their victims are reduced to intangible shades, or something like that
Requiem Vampire Knight, I was in some of those threads
>Ultrakill
V1 solos the HB verse
That sounds like a much more interesting setting than red-tinted gay california hell
Pedophiles and dictators have their souls erased upon death so Viv doesn't have to depict sex offenders.
What a fricking coward.
>I want to make a setting about HELL where all the EVIL BAD PEOPLE GO
>B-but not TOO bad, i don't wanna have to depict pedos or racists or dictators or soldiers or anyone who isn't just a modern day californian
It's so obvious that Viv really never wanted this setting to be hell, the world of this setting is too cutesy and friendly to be worthy of that name, she should have just set the whole thing into an alternate furry sci-fi world, because it requires the guts to make a story in which takes place in hell that actually makes you feel like it is, well, HELL, the place in which the all the mentally deranged, phychopaths, pedophiles and much more will go, guts which Viv obviously doesn't, and will never have
>alternate furry sci-fi world
She did that with Zoophobia and it didnt really work well. Funnily enough that comic also featured Hell as a location
>mentally deranged
>psychopaths
So people with weird brain chemistry go to Hell according to you? Sounds ableist but okay
At least the ones that actively hurt/kill other people but they are still intelligent enough to know that is wrong
Shut the frick up.
Bitch.
Technically correct.
Hush.
i think there was a tweet where she boasted that they were "reclaiming" hell since christians use it to fearmonger against being gay and stuff, Which really puts it in perspective.
the "hell" of hazbin hotel is, in spirit, the idea of hell that one uses as deflection when some christian tells them they're going to hell by saying "yeah im going to hell, thats where all the bad b***hes at! imma party in hell! heaven is boring!"
that kinda shit.
if it were a more culturally consistent version of hell, then there wouldnt be all the memes about "hazbin hotel fans when they go to hell and its actually just eternal torment and theres no gay furries making sex jokes"
homosexuals burn in Hell. Viz will see for herself.
This is exactly Viv's views. She thinks hell is a fun party place with cotton candy and friendly demon lords with moral standards to "reclaim it."
Well, Hell is other people after all.
Funny, becauase to reclaim something youd have to have owned it to begin with.
After how the Cherub episode treated Heaven, I was worried for Hazbin, when HB S2 became a fricking disaster I had next to no hope and after Adam got revealed and proved the old audition sheet leak was real I lost all hope.
What's going to be a point of Hazbin? Redemption? Heaven sucks ass and Viv is going to go in the edgy teenager direction where Hell is the better place to go.
But I know the direction Viv is going to take Hazbin, she's going to try and make me feel bad for Angel and company with piles and piles of stereotypical melodrama. Why the frick would I feel bad for a Mafia member turned porn star or a cannibalistic serial killer, both of whom are still terrible people, before anyone says anything villain protagonist shows and movies who have unremorseful and total butthole leads usually don't make you feel bad for them.
Viv is such a fricking hack, the backstory of her characters like Blitzo and certainly Angel and Alastor have them be absolutely terrible people who deserve everything bad that happens to them, but she's too goddamn blinded by the fact she's a massive fujo and shit that she wants the audience to feel bad for these characters without them doing anything to earn sympathy.
It's just what happens when people read a single summary of Paradise lost and run with it.
kinda had a stupid idea of instead of using hell as it setting use purgatory.Like your not evil enough for hell nor are you good enough for heaven so charlie set up the happy hotel to get the ones who are close to getting sent to hell a chance of redemption and moving in favor of going up.
Being redeemed in Hell makes some sense.
Just look at Azrael and Dumah.
Oh boy do I have a comic for you!
Nta but I do love me some early 00's furry edginess. Thanks for the recommendation
Enjoy the ride anon, its actually about to end soon.
JACK is unironically a pretty good webcomic from that time period. It's still a total meme but it blows vivs shit out of the water.
I read it when I was 12 and I was obsessed with this comic, I just liked the more uncompromising depiction of hell that Viv just doesn't have the stones to do.
true fur hell
There are a couple webcomics from that era that were really awesome even if theyre creators were nutbag schizos. Problem is theyre so obscure I cant even find them on TV Tropes
The concept of Hazbin is pretty solid imo and in better hands it would probably make a good show. Anything but red furry California would be an improvement
>The concept of Hazbin is pretty solid imo and in better hands it would probably make a good show.
Alas, so many cartoons are "pretty cool concept that is ruined by the moronic writers"
Valentino is a rapist and a main character
Is he a pedophile? Is he something Viv is personally uncomfortable with?
Most likely yes
Nah he probably only rapes adults.
He only raped an adult so far, so he gets a pass from Viv for now.
Alastor can murder and cannibalize, but he has a special place in Viv's heart as her middle school favorite so he's allowed to do it without consequence for now as well.
But there's still gays and trannies
Viv having a "woman moment" when worldbuilding by not actually thinking these things through
That premise sort of makes sense at first.
But it falls apart when you realize Viv wants to call her stupid setting "Hell," even though she does not want to address any controversial subject matter. She can't handle it, she does not have the writing abilities or nuance to accomplish it.
She just made the setting "hell" as a social statement so she can "reclaim it." She's a hack.
They have potential but Viv will absolutely frick it up.
I don't know which is more surprising to me: that this b***h is still stirring drama up on a regular basis like a decade later, or that so many people willingly suck up to her.
The fact that being a murderer or rapist is considered a lesser crime than being racist/homophobic/transphobic/sexist completely destroyed the world for me. It just makes no fricking sense why opinions are worse than actively and knowingly harming a human being.
Yeah the fact that actually evil people don't go to hell fricks up the world building. So we're in "hell" with social standards.
where does it ever say one sin is worse than another? It doesn't. All sinners get processes the same.
My thought was Hell is basically ghostzone (Danny Phantom/YuYu Hakusho) which explains why I got a more Saturday morning cartoon for adults but forgot to have them actually do interesting things and not have a twat for a protagonist. Frick, even Ember is what Verosika essentially is but Ember at least was interesting and had screen time to be a b***h and Danny and Sam dealing with her was interesting which I what I thought Blitzo and Loona should have been doing instead of whining the whole time.
Ember actually got a chance to play music.
That entire music sequence in episode 8 could have been Verosika playing as a favor to Tex, and avoided Kesha fricking the budget.
You might be a pedophile in hell, but at least you're not RUDE!
That’s just leftist ideology in a nutshell.
What is she overlord of?
My dick
What is her style called?
scene
Ok.
Makes sense
not just the Overlords but my opinion on the Series itself (even though if asked this question before) are they're going to be Adult Cartoons amongst other mainstream stuff after it eventually becomes a full series that are going to look, sound and feel like (and even have an art style that inspired from) Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss?
Which?
Lizard breasts, any day of the week.
The reptile.
Pink b***h
Much less threatening given we now know they are only mid tier I’m the hierarchy of Hell.
She's hot.
Yes she is.
They're an excuse to design random stuff.
I think the concept is idiotic. Hell shouldn't have a tier system, It's a prison. There should just be the devil and his demons.
There should have been many Overlords that are 600 to many millennia years old Hellborn/Sinners that have managed to beat the odds, made deals to get by and being extremely cutthroat.
And as others have stated previously taking out the genociders, rapists, torturers out of the setting is extremely dumb and ruins the setting of
what Hell is supposed to be.
How would you write overlords?
Cool.
How does he treat the overlords?
Probably just leaves them to frick around in their little ring. They aren't allowed in any others, so as long as the hellborn aren't too bothered I don't see why he would care.
He doesn't give a single frick about them because even the most powerful of Overlords would get their shit kicked in by an Ars Goetia, much less him. I hope the series makes it clear that if Charlie really wanted to she could take Alastor out as easily as Dr. Manhattan killed Rorschach.
They look cool, I like them. It ruins them that some of them are trapped in a shitty, clingy soap opera like abusive relationship. Like come on, give me some cool and ruthless leader that doesn't have to go for the ''B-B-B-But...but...I have feelings too. They matter uwuwuwu'' bullshit
Mostly average or below average designs. Mostly hope that they're actually intimidating as the series go on
Every Overlord that exists, exists without my consent.
I, too, goon to wendi.
I keep hearing people say that Viv is a "fujoshi", which IIRC is a weeb term for MLM shipping female. I gotta wonder though, what marks her out so clearly as a "fujo" instead of just a woman writing a gay couple? what are the tells? what makes someone a fujo?
>what makes someone a fujo
All women writing gays are fujoshi, it translates to
>rotten woman
and that is exactly what they are
You made this exact post in the other thread
You aren't slick, moron
so?
i wanted more answers from more people.
Oh.
Viv is a fujo cause she makes almost everyone homosexual. Especially the men. There’s really no other reason than she shoves it down our throats rather than anything else as seen by Stolas.
Overlords should be exclusively human earth-born sinners that went to hell and then gained power and clawed their way up the hell hierarchy until they reached the maximum rank that someone born on earth can ever achieve, everything above overlords are beings that were never human
Loona's got a great ass.
i know, i nut in onaholes to porn of her, and i regret nothing.
She does. But viv is cutting her out of the show for budget reasons.
did I miss an episode of helluva because I have no idea who that is
She is in the hh pilot.
Do you think the folks on Twitter and Reddit will finally take notice what the frick is going on with Hazbin if August ends without a tweet again or if it's just a useless picture?
It's been so long that any real criticism is immediately shut down by crazed dick riders. That's all that's really left for Viv now, the small loud minority that would still eat her shit up if she called them homosexuals. They'll wait forever if they have to.
I give it another 6 months until everything explodes batposter.
Lackadaisy will come out before Hazbin does.
And it'll be 10x better
I hope they got enough cash.
Who is your favorite overlord?
Alastor, he wants to become the king of hell and is gonna make charlie fall in love with him to try to get closer to the king, lucifer.
I like him.
I couldn't think of anything.
you know if the creators of hazbin had any self awareness, hazbin could be a great allegory for liberalism and a deconstruction of the assumptions that underpin egalitarianism, altruism, pacifism, and all that typa shit.
i mean think about it.
a white coded young woman raised in the lap of luxury, despite incredulity from her parents who have had a lifetime to see how bad things really are, takes the weight of the world on her shoulders with blind idealism and a fetishistic obsession with surface level ideas of "niceness".
She puts herself on a mission to prove that if people just "get therapy" and inundate themselves with the same ideal of idle, hedonistic "niceness" she has that they'll eventually become good people who can integrate into a perfect society (heaven) without causing trouble.
In this sense, hell being basically red california works in the shows favour, because it makes it even more obviously analogous to real life blue states where politics is defined by naive "luxury beliefs" like equity, diversity, promiscuity, and harm reduction that stand in stark contrast to the declining standards of living and security that present themselves as poor, more amoral people are increasingly unable to shoulder the moral and economic costs that come from sharing or at least cynically taking advantage of these "luxury beliefs"
I love Alastor! I want to work as his servant & him to abuse his power & take advantage of me!
Shake on it?
Yes!
I want to summon sinners and enslave them. I want them to be back on Earth, but they are unable to enjoy the simplest pleasures like a cool breeze because they are too busy working in my china-style workshop. I want the female sinners to be sex slaves to whoever buys their contracts while keeping the cutest or hottest for myself. I want to be the sole supplier of unpaid labor for desperate or uncaring business. I want Amazon and its likes to become the second Hell of the Dead.
Angel havin an "oh-noseis overdosies"
unfortunately he can't die from them down here, he's just gotta hang back and wait it out
symtoms include
>dizziness
>tinnitus
>heartburn
>stabbing migraine
>heart beating out of your chest
>it hurts to breathe
and for angel in particular
>reliving the day you died
>remembering why you're down here
>remembering all those times you said "hell is fun, actually"
get better soon angel, the acid bukakke scene is in 12 minutes
So are characters from HB- Stolas for example- ever going to make an appearance in HH, or vice versa? Or would the copyright issues with A24 prevent that?
I fricking hope not, Stella's is the worst part of Helluva Boss
I agree, she’s the prime example of what Vivzie does to characters when she wants to woobify her pets. If only she were in a better show
Frick I meant Stolas but I wasn't really wrong, all the HB characters got flanderized at a breakneck speed so any of the characters showing up in Hazbin Hotel would be detrimental
Exactly, Stolas is the epicenter of all this, but really the worst part about Helluva and Hazbin for that matter is Vivzie and her shit writing.
I have 0 idea how this world works.
I cannot tell demons and overlords and regular people apart. Not to mention ring leaders.
Also you'd think that in a world where some of the residents get perma killed periodically if someone presents an idea to prevent it they'd be at least curious.
I don't understand if imps are a concept why isn't Charlie hiring them to work at the hotel? Heck, if she's the princess off hell I guess she could just order them to do so.
Anyway, still no hint of a release date?
>Summer 2023
If you still believe it
But summer is over in a few days. And there's no ad campaign or anything.
Ex-fricking-actly
Ex-fricking-actly. If there’s justice in the animation industry, this show won’t see the light of day
Where do you people get all of this Hazbin lore?
Viv's social media, and livestreams from several years ago. She really added tons of complications.
Back when all this first started there was a LOT of social media content and posts from the team.
Are they dating?
>An EasterEgg, I'LL ADD IT!
>NOONE WILL EVER KNOW!
COWARD
BULLY
CAD
THIEF
Goddamn, Cherri has some serious competition.
boring
>I have powers, cuz Im more evil then overs