honestly this isn't even an issue having to do with generals not being allowed, because on ye olde Cinemaphile even if something didn't have a threads saying "THIS IS THE OFFICIAL GENERAL" in the title, people still jumped into existing threads to talk about the thing they like
but now idiots don't know how Ctrl + F, nor care because once a thread has more than 10 posts it might as well be worthless to speak in so they gotta start their own
No anon you don't understand, if there's a thread about Fionna's boobies in the catalog, I can't go in there and talk about her feet! That would be preposterous! I have to make another one dedicated to her feet. And then the next guy has to make one dedicated to her left armpit, but because he forgot to include the right one, now someone else has to make a thread for *that*
Yes, the rushing is real. We are 5 episodes in and already Charlie is crying for her dad to come help. We are 6 episodes in and already we get into heaven. We have not even done that much worldbuilding in hell yet. Its all going so fast. Which I guess kinda makes sense since every episode has 2 songs, which just destroy your ability to worldbuild.
>The dude is like five feet tall.
The whole point is that height doesnt really matter. And I am sure Lucifer could make himself taller if he wanted to.
Did you miss the Ugly Duckling metaphor?
Lucifer's dream was to see the wondrous things that his creations (which in this series includes humans, as it seems all the angels contributed) would do and become. He's been cursed to only see the worst of them.
There’s lots of shows where elements are completely surface-level or “random”.
This, however, is a show made by people who, for better or worse, are extremely passionate about it, given there seems to have been like five years of nonstop world building and character development and writing going on behind it. When I glanced at the wiki, it’s full of insanely inconsequential details that randomly got revealed in podcasts over the years. Also they’re musical theater nerds.
The point being, THIS is the kind of work where *everything* is dripping with symbolism and meaning. Whether that *pays off* depends on how the show continues and concludes its story.
The most obvious example is Alastor’s link to Lilith. No connection is made explicit, but they both had been absent for 7 years. This isn't the kind of show that would blow that off as a coincidence just to red-herring the audience.
3 months ago
Anonymous
there's so much fricking information happening in every shot, it's exausting
We haven’t seen enough of Lucifer yet, so I’m just speculating based on literary symbolism here, but consider this:
The Ugly Duckling is a story about a child who is raised as a.. well, a duck, but suffers ridicule and trauma due to not meeting the expectations of what a Duck Should Be, including its appearance (hence the title). Its story only ends happily when it realizes it was unhappy because it was trying to meet the wrong expectations - in the story, literally because it’s a swan, but metaphorically, when it learns to set its *own* expectations for itself, it leans that it is beautiful for the traits it *has*; it is not ugly for the traits it lacks.
Lucifer’s creation, his daughter, is the Princess of Hell and understands demons as “her people”. She’s absolutely never going to succeed in Hell by *Hell’s* standards - violence, fear, use of force; it’s just not what she is. But she’s not a sinner-demon; she’s an angel, at least partly. Lucifer wants to see her (metaphorically) transform into the six-winged angelic bird we see during the song.
>Dude he should be le evil because he ceo of evil Land.
Frick off, this lucifer is way better for the show those Tumblrgay are trying to make
It's fun to see the side of an angel in Lucifer for once and being an actual characther against sins and swearing pushing more the Idea that being the ruler of hell is punishment
It's like sinners being immortal, it's not made to be a gift but to spread even more suffering with no escape
What? I was also scared they'd turn Lucifer into a pussy, but they clearly didn't. He showed no hesitations confronting and looking down on Alestor and was ready to throw down. Just because he has depression and family issues it clearly doesn't make him a pussy in terms of fighting.
He wasn't ready to throw down, he took Alastor's mocking like a b***h and never said a thing back. If he actually wanted to throw down he should've killed Viv's cringy donutsteel. They made him into a pussy who takes shit from gaylastor
>Kill kill kill
Yawn.. holy shit can't believe Cinemaphile show that they're bigger shit writer than Viziepoop, the Queen of the hack c**t writer.
Alastor immediately said he was helping Charlie so Lucifer couldn't just kill him in front of her daughter, it would also show that mere insult who break the king of hell wich would be also pathetic
It's like yelling at a dog who bark at you, god job kneeling that low
What? I was also scared they'd turn Lucifer into a pussy, but they clearly didn't. He showed no hesitations confronting and looking down on Alestor and was ready to throw down. Just because he has depression and family issues it clearly doesn't make him a pussy in terms of fighting.
The part that confused is that Alastor has always played up the “sly and manipulative” aspect yet openly bragged about grooming Charlie in front of her dad and got into a dick measuring contest with him. Just seemed a little out of character.
Alastor is ALLERGIC, FRICKING HATE to not be on top of the world.
He is pissy everytime someone is talking about how he left for 7 years, when Carmilia didn't care that he was back or got super mad when Husk said he got someone above him.
So to have the Big Boss himself just be around him piss him off so much and know he can't do shit against that
Little bit of pushing his buttons to see how he responds. Because why wouldn't you want to mess with the big boss in a way he can't hit you back directly with?
But I suspect the other thing might be to get a sense of angelic energy since Lucifer appears to still have full use of it. The subplot of the dead exterminator seems to be heading their way with Adam declaring he's aiming straight at the Hotel. I don't think Charlie and Vaggie can hide that so Alastor will have to do something about it. There's the little preview of the cannibals appearing to at least encircle Charlie in a good way while singing about going to war, so something is brewing, very unlikely the other overlords would listen to Charlie at all without him.
I suspect Adam will be completely brainwashed during the extermination to specifically attack alaster and the hotel, so they’ll have to undo it and kill Vox once and for all.
he felt very out of character in both of these episodes if I'm frank. I didn't like him actively, with his words just stating that he could rip Husk's soul a part. That felt edgy and childish. Like something I might have had an OC say when I was in highschool, and I was a big JTHM fan so I know what I'm talking about here.
I think he loves her but doesn't know how to be a father and he's kind of a goofy sperg, but he's written very poorly so that doesn't come across properly at all.
Probably the worst version of Lucifer I've seen. I don't know why writing a strong dad seems to be Viv kryptonite. I feel like there's no real purpose for him in Hell. Even his presents amongst other hell people seems to be down played.
Adam is the first human. He's a flawed human being because his wife Eve gave him he fruit of knowledge which let sin into his body. All this happened because Lucifer fricked around and found out. Adam by all accounts should have a hate boner for Lucifer and Lucifer's daughter Charlie but it's not addressed in the show at all. Instead Adam just kills demons to keep Hell from growing too large and has no vendetta with Lucifer or his family.
Not once has Adam said "How's your mother, Charlie?" since that was his first wife.
Lucifer is a joke btw, he was going to be super charismatic or super evil. Instead he's a divorced depressed dad who has thrown in the towel. His home is shit, trying to build things in Hell will be torn down by random hell sinners, rehabilitating souls to send back to Heaven was a passion project he failed, he can't even set foot on Earth to see the fruits of his labor when he gave mankind the fruit of knowledge, he has no day-to-day communication with the Overlords of hell, his powers are a total joke, his songs were bad, he has no wife, his only blood in Hell has no angelic powers so he cucked his own genes. I could go on.
Well at least Satan could show up. Satan is one of God's angels who test man's piety and regularly has a courtroom to explain to God why some random Joe is a sinner. God created Satan to be a gatekeeper and pseudo Judge like the Egyptian Anubis. Satan has no relation with Lucifer. We're 0 with Adam, 0 with Lucifer, so Satan has his work cut out to pick up the slack for these losers.
Yes, but considering she was maimed by Lute entirely on her own authority for the “crime” of NOT murdering a single demon, and that the exterminations are extremely off-the-record, it’s an open question what that consequentially *means*. She WAS permitted to enter Heaven while Lucifer was not, suggesting the rules of banishment are far more political than magically binding.
No, it suggests the banishment of Lucifer is magically binding, and Vaggie chose not to return to Heaven (or had no way to, prior to Charlie, but also clearly didn't want to).
I suppose I should have clarified. I meant that being a “fallen angel” doesn’t seem to be existentially different from a not-fallen angel; it’s a social status. Lucifer’s banishment is magically enforced *by the angels*, as opposed to being a Cosmic Law, which DO seem to exist since they govern what souls go to Heaven.
Lucifer also still has all his body parts intact, so it’s not merely about being maimed.
Keep in mind we will probably have maybe 3 seasons at the absolute most. >Season 1 is 8 episodes >most cartoon season 1s are long and 2 is ordered before 1 is done, but is shorter >season 2 will probably be 6 episodes >season 3 (if it gets made) will be maybe 8 episodes
Many complaints are this first season feels way too rushed. If they haven't started work yet I imagine they're pushing Amazon to allow more episodes, or longer runtimes maybe, not sure how all that works.
This begs the question. If A24 really took this thing seriously, why not give it more than 10 episodes?
I feel like the real reason this was made is that A24 wants to hold on to it's whole "THE indie filmmaker company" title and saw the buzz around the pilot. If indie animation is an up-and-coming market? They wanted in.
I really dont see Husk and Angel Dust as a love couple. Best friends sounds much better, and not every character must fall in love with another character.
But of course, the fandom is just a bunch of oversensitive teenagers in 30 year old bodies who dont know how a real adult works, so Viv and the other writters wont risk themselves to be doxxed because one of the most dumb ships isnt canon.
People think they started a romance? That was the most obvious “what you need is someone who appreciates you OUTSIDE of sex and romance” song I’ve ever heard
They has been ship them sisnce the pilot, but only because Angel said his typical sex comment and throw a kiss to Husk (Husk didnt give a shit), but you know this fandom: minimal interaction between 2 characters = they are sooo in love.
I will say it again, i dont really see them in love, and i think they work better like "two people trying to get free of their jailers (Val and Alastor) and open up emotionally to others".
Sadly, people these days dont know about friendship, only "im good with you, so we must kiss, frick and love eachother because..."
People think they started a romance? That was the most obvious “what you need is someone who appreciates you OUTSIDE of sex and romance” song I’ve ever heard
Shippers can be crazy yo. Angel and Husk are obviously better suited as a mentor/mentee friendship relationship
Reminder that shippers are the biggest plague in the world of stories fans
Never allow a shipper to talk as this is how cancer are born
the handling of relationships in general in hazbin is all over the place. husk/angel feel way more like a sort of familial bond, husk being the sort of "dad" of the group would make way more sense for his character in general, i just can't buy there being anything romantic between him and angel, it purely feels like a friendship.
meanwhile when viv actually does try to force a sort of father/child relationship with alastor/charlie to deter the shippers, it does the complete opposite and purely adds more fuel to the romance, i don't care for shipping at all in this show but ironically the song with alastor & lucifer made me actually understand why people like charlastor so much after that.
vaggie/charlie barely even feel like a couple, it's a shame because i think they have good chemistry potential but they don't really do anything with it, episode 6 felt like it was in part trying to remind people that they're together.
>Husk and Angel
Clearly a friendship, at least to me. Husk is a bit older, sure, so that has an effect on it, but they're friends lol. >Vaggie and Charlie
I don't see what the problem is. They're an established couple, not a new romance, so they act like one.
>Clearly a friendship
that's what i'm saying, but viv's already said multiple times that they're going to be a couple and it's what the show has been trying to set up, even the official twitter has been fuelling it, but i just can't see them as a couple whatsoever.
Well KEK. I have seen the Daily Wire get angry about this. The bullshit has came alive.
There was a guy a few months ago who was emailing Fox News, TPUSA and the Daily Wire about the show, trying to get them angry, because they wanted to watch Tucker Carlson rant about "fat Vivzie". It was an epic troll. Sadly it didn't work. I myself did it with Russian TV networks trying to convince them that this proves that the West is Satanic. It didn't work either. Except:
KEK. Alas it came true. https://youtu.be/OUN4FdH1_VA
I kinda hope to see Putin get angry over this and b***h like with Harry Potter. It would le epic KEK of all time. So if we get nuked. It is my fault, sorry.
From the leaked scene of Alastor meeting Lucifer last week I was afraid that they were gonna turn Lucifer into a weakling pushover or something. Pleasantly surprised to see a character who struggles with depression and has flaws, but who still is not afraid to fight and has his pride. Glad it was implied that Lucifer is at least on the same level of power as Alastor, and wasn't a little pussy Black personhomosexual.
It seems to me Lucifer doesnt want to hurt the sinners and mostly views them as lab rats in a failed experiment more than anything. The whole rivalry with Alastor was more about getting Charlie's attention than him viewing Alastor as a threat himself.
It seems to me Lucifer doesnt want to hurt the sinners and mostly views them as lab rats in a failed experiment more than anything. The whole rivalry with Alastor was more about getting Charlie's attention than him viewing Alastor as a threat himself.
Yeah it wasn't bad for Lucifer. It almost felt like Al knew he couldn't beat Luficer with power so went for emotional damage with Charlie. Lucifer feels powerful but just lost all hope or desire other than his daughter. Which is fine.
I think it's pretty obvious that Lucifer could just delete Alastor if he wanted, with the lyrics of the song being kinda explicit about it - "angelic power"
It's impressive for an overlord of hell to kill a basic b***h angel grunt, so im not sure why would Alastor be able to go toe to toe with one of the angels from the top of the hierarchy
These two had great potential as recurring antagonists goofing around.
Episode 6 was really solid, and that song picking up all the motiffs from other songs was pure musical kino.
I'm now sad that this is only 8 episodes and that it could get a much better pacing if they were doing something like a 12 season episode.
Did you miss the Ugly Duckling metaphor?
Lucifer's dream was to see the wondrous things that his creations (which in this series includes humans, as it seems all the angels contributed) would do and become. He's been cursed to only see the worst of them.
But i think it's for the best that everytime Lucifer appears, he got a new obssesion pushing his Idea of being creative
>Literally your only connection between the two is that both are paternal figures >cringe
Some 8 year-old Taiwanese kid spent hours slaving over a circuit board so you could post this moronation.
Shame on you.
ngl the more i think about this design the more i find it funny. it feels like a direct response to the "she's just makes everyone a skinny white twink" complaint.
If St. Peter is at the gate of heaven, doesn't that mean that God exists in the show? He was hand picked by Jesus to be the first pope, which wouldn't carry much weight in heaven if Jesus was just some guy who thought he was god. There's clearly evidence of a higher power above the angels, but the show will never mention it for some reason.
you're implying this is a 1:1 interpretation of Catholic / Protestant / Orthodox Christianity's version of things. This "Saint Peter" could just be some righteous "Winner" called Peter that the Angles chose as Gatekeeper of Heaven.
>for some reason
You mean besides alienating a lot of potential viewers when it doesn't match up with their own beliefs or lack thereof, or is treated too seriously or not seriously enough? People b***h for fun about angel and demon costumes and sets, but they'll actually turn off if you start talking about God in the wrong way.
Would be funnier if it was the soul of the child that inhabits Freddy. Imagine you’re stuck for eternity to have the shape of the thing your murdered corpse was stuffed into.
do you think Alastor is pissed off by Lucifer because he was hanging out with Lillith, and Lillith was talking shit about Lucifer, which influenced Alastor's opinion on him? and then she used her slave power over Alastor to go babysit Charlie, when if Lillith really wanted Charlie to have a babysitter, her dad should've been the one doing the parenting? So Alastor is stuck at the hotel because Lucifer was absent, so he's mad at having to do this babysitting job in Lucifer's place.
Must suck to be a Lucifer cuck today. What a goddamn washed up loser in Hell. Adam is definitely on the chopping block to join him in Hell so two losers enjoy each other's misery.
The strange spambot is back it seems. What is even the point? Is it just someone that got upset about something or are they some sort of captcha tester thing or some shit?
It was referred to as 'spilling seed' and it was implied that doing it often is a waste, but accidental omission is usually not an issue
It likely was simply phrased that way, but it has more to do with masturbation as a habit, and with the consumption of pornography, rather than just the act of jizzing
Neither. The particular story that lead to the "no spilling seed" rule was Onan and the actual moral of that story was about levirate marriage and how Onan needed to cum inside his dead brother's wife to create an heir in his place.
Remember anons, when a mass quoting homosexual is spamming, Cinemaphile X is you friend
It lets you
1. un-(You) your own posts
2. hide "this post and replies" since perigay and most other Sharty mass-quoters reply to EVERYONE itt including themselves, this will effectively filter out every future post of theirs too
Vaggie's backstory fricked something up for Hell, that being new arrival sinners. Since she was tasked to kill sinners and one of them was a low power level nobody, it means anyone and everyone who arrives in Hell just shows up there. Thought there'd be different circles of Hell with the less nasty sinners going to a safer place of Hell.
Bit a problem you see because we aren't seeing new Hell arrivals every hour or so, we don't know how anyone could even become an Overlord since from the moment they arrive they're fresh meat.
Most shows introduce their cast within the first three episodes. I feel like we keep getting important character after important character introduced and I know there is not enough time to actually give them anything beyond the one episode they appear in.
Prime has pushed some good series. Others not so much I suppose, Rings of Power...
Hopefully someone with influence is actually trying to fix that a bit, maybe give season 2 more episodes to work with.
Season 2 has already been fully written and is being recorded. Everything is set in stone for season 2 most likely, so if it still has 8 episodes I doubt it's gonna change at this stage.
neat, good for them. i completely get why a lot of people might not like this show, but i'd rather have stuff like this than a lot of the slop we get these days. HH is, at the very least, high-effort, original, and the creators are obviously passionate about it.
Yes it's their only animated series at the moment and they funded season 1 and have the rights for it. And based on what Viv said in interviews recently Amazon Prime are funding season 2 if I understood correctly.
If that's the case tho then I actually wouldn't be surprised if S2 gets more or longer episodes cause Amazon simply has more money to throw around.
They got damn lucky with Amazon tbh, they went out of their way to promote the show pretty hard and renewed it before it started. Now their probably well on their way to getting a third season greenlight.
In the interviews I found Viv said that A24 fully funded s1, then when it came to finding where to stream it Amazon was instantly interested in picking it up and they greenlit season 2.
Who knows what the funding is, but a joint fund seems realistic.
Based on other research I've done Amazon is currently interested in expanding their 16+ aged animation slate and they prefer things with existing fanbases so Hazbin was the perfect fit, I'm glad things worked out.
Longer episodes or more epiosdes would be such a blessing for sure.
Helluva Boss is a better show unironically. Viv dropped the ball hard on her dream project. It's also very obvious that Alistor is her personal Merry Sue donut Steel that she more than likely shlicks off too in private.
>Lucifer, Adam, and Lilith are as old as the age of the planet Earth >Lucifer gets instantly mad about Alastor, a soul from the 1930s and gets surprised when he spooks him
Jesus what a fricking cuck. Should've added Velvet in the scene to disrespect this has been fallen Angel frick.
Nah, that's not what you should be focused on. What you should focus on is the wedding he did it at, which was basically a Hebrew tradition where everyone at a wedding would go out of their way to get as shitfaced as possible, often over the course of a 3 day bender.
Lucifer unironically lives in a cuck shed in Hell and is respected by nobody. All the angel DNA in him and his only kid has no angelic features, he wasted his sperm. Funniest shit that's been written.
>no gays in heaven >rapists, pedophiles, and mass murderers don't go to hell >seven rings of hell are themed after the colors of the rainbow >turns saint peter (a middle eastern israelite) into a guy with blond hair and blue eyes
what the FRICK did vivzie mean by this
What's more, homo*phobia* exists in Heaven (and the show's position is obviously that that's bad). And yeah, I think this is indicating homophobia; Lute clearly despites their relationship in a way that Adam notably does not ("Hot as frick, though") despite him being the avatar of frat-bro dickishness otherwise.
I think Adam calling it hot was supposed to suggest that Lute was hung up on the gayness, but it could also serve as a joke that as a dudebro type Adam missed that the problem was an angel canoodling with a demon princess and not their genders.
Remember the politics of the creators of the show. From their point of view, a dude-bro like Adam characteristically fetishize lesbians and absolutely would refer to it as "hot as frick".
You could read it as her hating gay people, but it's equally likely the idea of a demon and angel being in love revolts her. Or it may be both. Probably both.
It could be both, but it's notable that Adam does not care about either of those things in the slightest - Lute's reaction is specific to her, which strongly suggests personal bias.
Episode 5 fell flat completely. Episode 6 was slightly better with some lore elements, but the overall issue is still the pacing. The pacing is so bad in HH that it’s ruining any good aspects of the show. I get Viv didn’t know she was gonna get a second season, but she still didn’t have to shove as much shit in as she did. Viv is of the mindset that style>>>
Vaggie was way after Lucifer's time in heaven and the other angels didnt notice her either. Adam only did because she was one of his top soldiers of a secret force for presumably a long time
Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss traded good concepts and story for ships.
>Charlie and Vaggie, boring as hell. >Angel and Husk, no fricking sense, maybe they think hyper sexualized flamboyant and grumpy old man is funny? >Sir Pentious and Cherry Bomb, arch-nemesis, but suddenly, in 3 hours, Sir Pentious wants to frick her. >Stolas and Blitz, they nerfed Stolas making him useless without the book so they can hang with Blitz and company.
Ooooh, and the daddy issues. EVERYONE HAS DADDY ISSUES!!. Charlie, Stolas, Angel Dust, Blitz, Moxxie!! Vaggie has daddy issues because her dad is God? Alastor is specially assholy with other male characters because he has daddy issues?
Helluva Boss is way worse at it though. Everything good about S1 went down the drain in S2. The amount of retconning done from making Blitzo to be this innocent little angel who did nothing wrong and everything wasn’t his fault, to making Stolas a depressed gay dad who only cares about Blitzo for his body, to the most egregious of all making Blitzo and Stolas somehow childhood friends.
Oh and killing off Chaz too, because he actually would have fit in great with the cast in the long run. But because Adam Neylan is a moron, that’ll never happen
The issue with this show is that it rushes along and doesnt stop to explore/expand on its ideas and worldbuilding. There is almost no buildup to anything and all important moments are conveyed through song to mask how shallow and unearned they are.
>The joy of Heaven isn't worth having if it requires the suffering of others
Jesus of Nazareth literally destroyed this dumb philosophy by himself. Hahahaha.
It failed since the beginning.
Are you trying to assert that Christian theology teaches Jesus's atonement was accomplished by him inflicting pain on other people?
3 months ago
Anonymous
He's very clearly attacking the claim >The joy of Heaven isn't worth having if it requires the suffering of others
by pointing out that Christian theology makes it very clear that the joy of heaven strictly mandates the suffering of Christ.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think the clear difference there is that Christ volunteered, whereas the damned do not.
3 months ago
Anonymous
If the damned suffering doesn’t count, nor would Christ’s.
3 months ago
Anonymous
No, you twit. He's talking about how Jesus shed his blood on the Cross specifically so we DON'T have to have children burning in hell for eternity. He took all that pain onto himself as the sacrificial lamb so God won't be pissed off at us for Original Sin anymore
3 months ago
Anonymous
that argument is only valid if you believe in christianity, that doesn't seem to be real in the show
even that philosophical point sounds like corporal punishment moronation that schools and brainwashing military complexes do. >Oh you were a chill dude your entire life and dealt with horrible homosexuals and conditions your entire existence >kay but it wouldn't be fair to Jimmy the axe murder rapist because we're all equal and consequences don't mean anything so enjoy having him and the other millions of self absorbed psychotics as your neighbors in the afterlife for eternity.
>kay but it wouldn't be fair to Jimmy the axe murder rapist because we're all equal and consequences don't mean anything so enjoy having him and the other millions of self absorbed psychotics as your neighbors in the afterlife for eternity.
The idea becomes more thorny when "Jimmy the axe murder rapist" or one of those faceless "self absorbed psychotics" is your child, or your sibling, or your parent.
Blood doesn't change actions and consequences if I have family members or individuals i care/cared about commit a lopsided amount of selfish things in direct consequence of others they shouldn't be allowed to continue to be a nuisance to more people what a stupid point. as an aside I don't believe in the whole burning in hell forever crap if anything a model of the afterlife should take a page from the greeks on layers be attributed to your overall balance sheet of being a dickhead/goodwill/chadthunderwiener diagram.
I assume it means that for sinners heaven is a lie because it is unattainable. But that only works if you conceptualize heaven and hell and places in the world. Sure, salvation is meaningless if you cant get it, but the point is that the chances at getting it should stop at some point. Otherwise, what prevents angels from being damned themselves by becoming awful in heaven? If heaven is not forever then heaven is also a lie.
It's the conundrum of making your afterlife just be Life Part 2: Electric Boogaloo to begin with. You don't achieve some grand enlightenment about your place in the universe, you just pick up where you left off in life and....exist, I guess? Like, what does one actually DO in heaven on a day to day basis? Are there things to entertain you? If so, why does one need entertainment in literal paradise where one wants for nothing all the time?
This is why I prefer the Buddhists. They at least are up front about the whole "it's a never ending grind you'll do over and over" thing.
I hate Viv's vision of heaven because there are businesses and cafes and shit which means someone up there is a heaven starbucks barista who has to pour me my gold flake titty milk latte. Why beg that kind of question? Idk maybe they have a similar hierarchy to hell and the cherubs do all the menial shit.
it seems to me just a metaphor on people who think they're "too far gone" to get help, like Angel Dust who thinks he sold his soul so there's no more chance for him. Oh you're already dead? Sorry buddy no more chance for redemption, it's over, just accept it forever and don't try to fix yourself cause no more chance.
Or I'm giving it too much thought and credit.
>This is why I prefer the Buddhists. They at least are up front about the whole "it's a never ending grind you'll do over and over" thing.
I'm decently sure that's not what Buddhism is about. The reincorporation cycle is more of a punishment than the end goal, the actual end goal is reaching Nirvana, at which point you achieve some sort of enlightenment/non-existence (not sure which) and stop cycling through reincarnations.
>The reincorporation cycle is more of a punishment than the end goal
No, Sandara is not a punishment it is just the natural way of existence
the poit of buddhism is that the cycle is ultimately unsatisfactory and that there is a way out of if for those that are fed up
while enlightenment is the end point for monks and those aiming for nirvana, most lay people just follow the precepts to get better karma for the current and next lives and to get rebirth in the nicer worlds
>if hell is forever than Heaven must be a lie, If Angels can do whatever but remain in the sky
They are saying that "hell being forever" makes no sense if a denizen of Heaven can sin constantly(like Adam does), and not be punished for it. By the rules that Heaven itself has established in this, Adam should have gotten tossed out.
Adam getting kicked out and sent to hell would be a pretty funny end for him, especially if he turned up again claiming Hell is fricking awesome and how wrong he was.
I was thinking about something like that too. Exterminators apparently love violence. Well in hell you can kill each other every day without really dying, just like Valhalla! Them being sent to hell and going native would be funny
I thought if you died in hell you died for good, even if it was by another sinners hand.
3 months ago
Anonymous
in hell apparently the only way you can die permanently is by an angel >but why do we see Alastor Sue killing demons in his backstory and episode 5???
Shut up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Maybe it's purely a rank thing? Like you can't kill a sinner as a sinner, only if you're an overlord or higher.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'd be willing to believe that they don't *die*, but an Overlord who overthrows another keeps them torn up / locked up and then throws them to the Exorcists when the year is up.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The simplest assumption is the death strips a lot of their power away. So even without further intervention they'd be quite vulnerable to extermination, and just the general violence of hell.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It’s only when it’s done by angelic weaponry. Sinners are immortal and will heal and pull themselves back together if killed by normal means and weapons.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>>but why do we see Alastor Sue killing demons in his backstory and episode 5??? >Shut up.
Who said he killed them? Mimzie said that their voices are still heard in the background. There are fates worse than death, you know
Adam and Lute ending up in hell and having to stay at the hotel would be hilarious. They are such an unusual and interesting pair and their interactions with the rest of the cast would be incredibly funny
And Sera is responsible for the genocide of more people than every historical figure on Earth combined. Her logic is even the same as someone like Hitler. She was only doing it because it was necessary to protect the volk, she didn't want to but there was no other way! Then she covered it up because she knew it was bad.
She needs to be cast down to hell for a few thousand years to think about what's she done
>a character with a black voice actress defends a system than runs on "if we're too easy on them, they'll rise up and oppress us like we did to them" logic
Vivienne.
I think that the big reveal of ep 6 was that >nobody knows how someone gets into heaven, but the system can't be questioned >once someone is in they can do anything they want except aforementioned questioning of the system
I wouldn't be surprised if everyone is so happy and bright in heaven because they think, "of course, we're in heaven, we're happy all the time!" and the same goes for hell.
There's a lack of God in this series so the fact that none of the angels go to Him to get His view on what Adam is doing is a huge plot hole that can only be explained as God not existing in this series setting, only the angels.
>a huge plot hole that can only be explained as God not existing in this series setting, only the angels >God exists in this series setting but has no more communication with angels than he does with humans
I fixed your huge plot hole and I didn't even need to change anything about the show.
It could even be a LOTR-esque situation where God didn't create the universe; instead he created the Angels to make the universe themselves (though the Valar were aware of Eru where the Angels are not aware of YHWH).
But then you have to explain why he doesn't communicate with his angels more as he does actually do a ton of it in the actual bible or why the angels are unable to speak with him. And why is this not enough of an issue to bother him about as he is the one that created the entire morality system.
3 months ago
Anonymous
because he wants his angels to have free will too
3 months ago
Anonymous
Doesn't that go against the show's premise of making Lucifer the good guy with good intentions who rebelled against God to give humanity free will because God wouldn't allow it? The show's premise works better as there being no God at all in this series setting.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thought about this too. My idea - though it's a bit weird characterizing God in this way - is that God's closed off in his sanctum, because he's scared. Of what? Well, God is normally omnipotent - past, present, future he can all see. But when this redemption plan came to fruition... he couldn't see how it'd end up (or maybe something else relating to the whole Lilith/Eve/Roo shit, IDK). And for the creator who should know everything, that's terrifying, a feeling they should never have to experience unless self-inflicted. So, they're shut away in their sanctum trying to figure out what exactly is preventing them from seeing the outcome, and how this whole redemption plan plays into it.
You could even tie it in with the early extermination - moving it up some could be an attempt to "course correct" the flow of fate and get things back to how it should be. Of course, this doesn't help.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Because the angel characters aren't based on the bible, they're caricatures of human beings with harps and feather wings, and human beings don't have a line of communication with God so it wouldn't make sense to give them one in the story.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>But then you have to explain why he doesn't communicate with his angels
why would god communicate with the angels at all ? and why do you think the bible is 100% true canon in the hellaverse ?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Because he actually normally does. He created them but doesn't want to speak with them? They exist in his realm, unlike humans.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Because he actually normally does
the show is pretty clear that he doesn't
>He created them but doesn't want to speak with them?
who said he create them ? and even if he did, why would he want to speak with them ?
>They exist in his realm, unlike humans.
who said that they exist in the same realm as God and who said that the angels are in a separate realm from humans and not just another planet in the same universe ?
How does time of day work in Hell?
Where do new arrival souls go to in Hell? Consider if becoming an Overlord means getting souls under contract, wouldn't Overlords be spawn camping new sinner souls every time it happens?
Why do none of the Overlords talk about Lucifer? There could've been a power dynamic of Lucifer shielding the Overlords from Angel Exterminations in exchange for their obedience. It would explain why Hell isn't a total wild west all the time.
Why is Lucifer such a fricking cuck?
Why is Adam LE BAD guy for saying confirmed 100% dead sinners can't go to Heaven? They boxed themselves into this corner when writing him.
The fact Angels don't know what Adam does with his Right Wing Death Squad is a reach
Vox and Velvet are good and don't deserve to be in Hell.
Hope Alastor dies.
Adam is LE BAD not because 100% dead sinners can't go to heaven.
He's bad because he sees the fact that they DO NOT go to heaven and thus assumes that they CANNOT and SHOULD NOT go to Heaven, but it is *proven* in the show that he has no hard evidence to base that on.
>the fact that they DO NOT go to heaven and thus assumes that they CANNOT and SHOULD NOT go to Heaven
Why do they get sent to hell in the first place? Not a single individual before now has been able to get to heaven from hell up to this point. How is any of hell's citizens going to get to heaven unless it's based on each angel's personal bias that they be allowed to or not? Charlie was the only one making the effort, not any of the angels up in heaven. This makes them look incredibly dumb.
>Why do they get sent to hell in the first place?
Wow good question I wonder if the show will treat that question as an incredibly central plot point in Episode 6 in particular or maybe the whole show wow
Adam is a moron and his arguments should not be taken seriously. What is strange is that there is nobody in heaven, the supposed home of virtuous super geniuses, who have better arguments than him.
They explicitly do not know what the criteria are. Everyone in Heaven assumes "uh I guess it's because we were virtuous" but they don't actually *know* what causes it.
Which is moronic and only there to skirt the valid double argument that 1. Sinners are in hell because they are awful and 2. Sinners are the entire reason why hell is hell, them being awful is what makes hell awful.
Its very cringe Viv is framing this in terms of my people versus your people.
Did....did you miss the entire point of the series is to call unfounded self-righteous thinking like that on it's horse shit? If no one actually knows where the distinct line between heaven and hell lies, makes you wonder why there's a heaven and hell to begin with
>If no one actually knows where the distinct line between heaven and hell lies
And that is moronic because the line seems to be pretty clear. If you are a piece of shit then you end up in hell. That has been established in the show, but then the show, in order to try to make Charlie seem correct, goes on to imply that angels dont know what makes somebody good. Thats moronic and goes against what the show established in the first place.
Angels know what it takes for somebody to be in haven, the point rather, is whether that placement is final or not. The philosophical point the show wants to make is whether redemption is always possible, not that we dont know what good and evil are. But then this point gets subverted because the trial scene was so incerdibly shallow and unsubtle they had to make Charlie seem correct at all points.
It's not an unrealistic argument to say that someone who was only mildly "bad" per say (jerk offs, swears, has selfish thoughts, drinks, has maybe stolen once or twice but felt bad afterwards, ect) got sent to hell and spiraled since there's nothing but bad encouragement down there. When in rome after all, what's being "good" going to get you in hell?
3 months ago
Anonymous
That is a good point, but unless we get more information I seriously doubt doing those things, by themselves, is enough to damn somebody. Also, something that the show has kinda touched on is that there are layers to hell, some presumably worse than the others. Also also, nothing stops the moderate sinners from making a society themselves down there.
Nah, see, that's the core point you're missing. Adam excuses his actions by saying anyone in hell is a sinner and thus deserves it. But there is no actual evidence that that's true. Certainly the worst people are in Hell and the best in Heaven, but where is the line drawn? What about people who are mostly good? Because the fact of the matter is a child ended up in Hell.
Adam would have you believe that that proves the child was evil, else they wouldn't be in Hell, but that's entirely circular logic. That's the point.
The show has not mentioned the existence of a deity; the opening exposition describes the creation of mankind and the world as the doing of the angels themselves. There obviously *is* some cosmic force setting rules that the angels do not control (nor fully understand), but they would simply have deferred to God's authority if they knew him to exist in that way.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Adam would not exist without a deity to reflect. Removing God is bad lore.
Anon, you had to take easier exams on school didn't you?
The Bible is the school exam for life and it clearly states that Hell is forever and so is Heaven.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Removing God is bad lore.
Not mentioning God is good business sense.
I dont care what Adam says. There are two different points here 1. whether everybody in hell deserves to be in hell and 2. Whether angels using the damned for entertainment is justified because they are in hell and so dont matter. The show makes it seem like 1. is correct, everybody in hell is a piece of shit. But there is a child there for some reason. That has not been explained yet but if I were to guess the child is only there to make Vaggie even more sympathetic and Adam/Lute even more black and white buttholes.
2. is uncertain. I would say no, it does not justify massacring them. Especially since the Angels are doing so for petty/evil reasons.
But none of these points touch my original point that hell is awful precisely because the sinners make it awful. They are not chained up being tortured or anything, they are free to do whatever they want. And they choose to make everything bad, hence leading even more credence that they deserve to be in there, because they made it that.
That's the thing, though. The biggest pieces of shit go to Hell, that's not in question. But what if you're only a tiny bit shitty? All the child rapists are in Hell, but not all those in Hell are child rapists. Meanwhile, Adam *behaves* exactly like someone you'd expect to find in Hell, but he went to Heaven. And the show's core plot element on the matter is that they don't know where the dividing line *is*.
At this point, you whining about it just comes across as being mad it doesn't reflect your real-life religious beliefs.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>they don't know where the dividing line *is*.
Right, and this is precisely the dumb part. How do they not know? Do they really have no better argument than the one the explicit and known idiot is making?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>How do they not know?
Souls just appear either in heaven or hell after their death. They don't know how they're judged, they just take it on faith that it is as it should be and that their moral standards are correct. Do you get it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Thats dumb and only there so Charlie can seem to have more of a point when she has a point already.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's there because that's how religion works in real life, you chowderhead.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Its not though, all religions have libraries upon libraries on works on the matter.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The prohibition against homosexuality is the most obviously relevant example. You can write as many essays dissecting Leviticus as you like, but whether the book and its prohibitions are valid is ultimately based purely on revealed knowledge, a.k.a. blind faith. Someone who doesn't know the secrets of the universe any more than anyone else does will dictate on that basis that homosexuality is immoral. Same deal with the angels upholding their own codes despite not knowing why people get into heaven.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The prohibition of homosexuality, whether you agree with it or not, does not solely depend on blind faith but has naturalistic arguments behind it such as the functionality of human sexual reproduction and its goals. Like I said, you do not have to agree with the arguments, but the arguments do not come strictly from faith. In fact, many secular societies have had and still have restrictions on homosexuality, classic examples are the soviet union and current china.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Christian prohibition against homosexuality, as in the example of Leviticus, is not based on naturalistic arguments. Don't wander off topic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I am simply telling you that its perfectly possible to have an argument against homosexuality without reference to faith. Which supports the notion that we can have naturalistic ethical explanations, which supports the notion that we do actually know what lands you in hell. And all of that without needing blind faith.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>we can have naturalistic ethical explanations, which supports the notion that we do actually know what lands you in hell.
No it doesn't. You can't get from naturalistic ethical reasoning to the support for the notion that there is a hell. The existence of an afterlife is not an ethical proposition. Likewise, the existence of apologetics doesn't mean that the religion's claims are not based on faith.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Never mind that any such "naturalistic" argument would require evidence that the existence of homosexuality actually has negative outcomes. People have been gay for all of human existence and at no point has the population not grown normally because some people were gay. And even if there was a population growth problem, gay people can still have kids, so the solution wouldn't need to include stopping people from being gay.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>negative outcomes
Like the aids epidemic or shit like gay pride parades where they dance naked in the streets?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>naturalistic arguments >"aids is the gay disease" >gay pride parades
anon pls your christian nationalism is showing too quickly, gotta keep it under wraps longer than that buddy
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, never mind it, since it's an obvious off-road into whinging about the gays.
3 months ago
Anonymous
True, he just tried to pivot from "naturalistic arguments" into "I hate pride parades" lol
3 months ago
Anonymous
You do realize there can be numerous anons responding to you right?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Cinemaphile is one guy, anon. Where have you been?
3 months ago
Anonymous
I have been here, with all my other split personalities
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You can't get from naturalistic ethical reasoning to the support for the notion that there is a hell
Yes you can, your naturalistic reasoning can ground the criteria of what constitutes good and evil, which itself grounds the criteria of who gets into heaven or hell. This is what is called a layered ethical argument and, agree with them or not, they have been given by pretty much all theologians. Nobody except hard core protestant denominations in christianity want to ground their ethics in "just cos" arguments.
Again, you can think all of this is bullshit. But there are very persuasive arguments given in this vein.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Yes you can, your naturalistic reasoning can ground the criteria of what constitutes good and evil, which itself grounds the criteria of who gets into heaven or hell.
Which does not support the notion that there is a heaven or hell. The existence of an afterlife is not an ethical proposition.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Right, but when I give a criteria for a distinction, I am not commited to the actualization of the distinction. I can say 'If heaven exists then you would go there based on my established criteria'. I am not commited to the existence of heaven, I am simply making a conditional claim with heaven as a possible application of my established criteria. The criteria itself doesnt necessitate heaven for its existence, heaven is simply a possible application of the criteria.
3 months ago
Anonymous
In other words, you have nothing relevant to say.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Its ok to say you didnt understand what I said anon. I can explain it in simpler terms if you want.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You cannot ethically reason your way to the existence of a judge of dead souls or what criteria that judge assigns, because those aren't ethical claims, they're physical claims. To say that such a judge exists and shares your ethical reasoning is assuming facts not in evidence, i.e. you take it on faith. So you cannot through ethical reasoning "know what lands you in hell". I've said this three times now and you're still having trouble with it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>criteria that judge assigns, because those aren't ethical claims
The criteria are ethical claims dumbass. You are not claiming anything physical or even the instantiation of those rules in reality. You can claim that its wrong to kill children even if no children presently exist. Furthermore, the criteria a judge uses and the existence of the judge himself are entirely different matters, entirely different claims. I say that the criteria exists but the judge doesnt need to exist for the criteria to hold. That is not faith in the slightest.
You can absolutely, through ethical reasoning know what lands people in hell. In fact, they have a pretty good approximation in the show given the kinds of people that end in hell in the first place.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>You are not claiming the instantiation of those rules in reality. >You can absolutely, through ethical reasoning know what lands people in hell.
Are you ESL or just dumb? You cannot know what lands people in hell if you cannot know whether there is a hell or by what criteria (ethical, unethical, random chance) people are sent there. Let me rephrase that to make sure you fully grasp the tautology: you cannot know why people go to hell if you don't know why people go to hell.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You absolutely can and I already told you how. Its not my fault you cant read.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>you cannot know why people go to hell if you don't know why people go to hell. >You absolutely can and I already told you how.
Great. Good talk.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>acting as if your dumbass formulation holds any weight
3 months ago
Anonymous
Until you're able to answer it it'll have to stand.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>but has naturalistic arguments
it doesn't given that homosexuality also happen in other species and that sex has more functions than just reproduction in humans
>many secular societies have had and still have restrictions on homosexuality, classic examples are the soviet union and current china.
those are just carry overs of previous religious opinion held by of the russian and chinese societies
it's comes for faith first and them people try to rationalize it after the fact to avoid the implications of part of their religious laws being wrong
3 months ago
Anonymous
>it doesn't given that homosexuality also happen in other species and that sex has more functions than just reproduction in humans
I didnt say the arguments were correct, just that they exist. >those are just carry overs of previous religious opinion held by of the russian and chinese societies
it's comes for faith first and them people try to rationalize it after the fact to avoid the implications of part of their religious laws being wrong
They are not. Those are grounded on the secular collectivistic conception of the state as the ultimate purpose of humanity. And so the common good substitutes individual goods. Your value becomes determined by how much you can contribute to the state. And a big contribution are children, more state subjects. So homosexuality is viewed as immoral because it does not contribute to the expansion of the state.
It does not come from faith. In fact, this was also the "scientific" rationale given by the nazis to persecute homosexuality. And the nazis were very much known for their anticlericanism and secularistic practices.
You can suspect the ultimate cause is leftover religion. But the arguments themselves, agree with them or not, have nothing to do with religion themselves.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Giving the strong Catholic and Orthodox traditions in Germany and Russia respectively they're bad examples to use if you're trying to separate those states from their religious influences. The religious beliefs of high-ranking psychopaths is not the major contributor.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, I can also name a few things that happen in other species. I guess that's why everyone in heaven and hell has a furry design.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Adam either went to heaven specifically because he was the first human or he squeased in on a technicality and people "respect" him purely because of seniority. Like that one co-worker who's been there forever but isn't actually better than anyone else.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The problem is this is an interesting concept yet it only feels like we both start to and stop exploring it in the span of the last few scenes of episode 6. >Heaven themselves demonstrate a failure to properly draw the line on who is deserving of Heaven. >GOTTA MOVE ON WE HAVE A FINAL BATTLE TO GET TO.
Honestly? At that point I'd have made the finale more court proceedings to let them go in to depth on the theme by having Charlie basically sue Heaven for a lack of proper legal standard
3 months ago
Anonymous
it's not even "only a tiny bit shitty" they literally don't know what send one to heaven or hell, for all that we know you could be a complete piece of shit butthole and still get in heaven by a technicality while someone that never really did anything really bad could also end up in hell on a technicality
that's the whole point, the criteria is not known and people are just making assumptions without any hard proof
Could just be a turbo manlet like how nifty is a ultra petite as their demonic form, it probably was more of an accumulated breaking point of seeing something crying and cowering and she;s probably killed thousands in the same position before that, or viv is a fricking moron.
Same reason unbaptized babies wind up in Limbo despite having literally zero chances to actually sin: no one thought of this shit until someone asked after the fact.
It's funny they think physical appearance matters in hell when they're so warped to begin with. A fully grown dude could take the form of a child in hell because he was into children for all it matters.
Yeah I know, and i hate that trope. >do X amount of brutal killings and succesful missions over many years >suddenly, this ONE person you came across COMPLETELY changes your personality, and you do 180 spin on your entire worldview
I hate this. The dumb vox machina show also did that, and it was ever dumber than here.
Verification not required.
Those episodes show that Viv should have cut off A LOT from this. Like maybe focus on ONE story that can have a beginning, middle and end. Like maybe the plot of first season being redemption of Angel Dust. Then you have a goal which is attainable and doesn't raise the stakes too high and you can explore it to it's fullest. You can explore Angel's character and his road to redemption and make it NOT just about being nice, it could be about recognition of your own sins, of trying to correct them and earning forgiveness from those you hurt and your own self, where you do want to atone for what you were and because of that you go on the path to redemption. You can then also expand on character interactions as this goal is nearing completion. And expand on necessary characters for this plot without throwing 10 new ones every episode. Everything being tied to ONE goal and there being actual FOCUS. Then it could end on Angel's redemption and even if you get only ONE season then you have a hopeful note to end on where you see that redemption IS possible and what it means to redeem a sinner.
But no. Viv could not do it because she wants to show all of the ideas that she has. She wants to shove in all of those concepts, characters, ideas. Everything feels like an ending to first draft of an idea Viv had and she cannot for the life of her let go of those ideas. It seems like she is obsessed with showing everything she wants to do without much care for story structure and that's a problem. She needs someone on that team capable of telling her "NO!" to stir her in the right direction so she can become a better writer, but she seems utterly incapable of even recognizing that she needs help.
On the road to improvement the first and hardest step is to recognize you need to move at all. And Viv seems incapable of taking it.
My takes on episode 5 and 6…
Five
-The dad character is all over the place in terms of their personality, I can’t get a solid read on them why they act how they act, are they hiding something?
-I was expecting some large, powerful looking father figure. Instead I get a neurotic looking guy who looks the same age as his daughter and is also shorter than her. Fail on the character design, and again with the spiky teeth.
-The tension between Alastor and the dad is so forced, I never once felt any vibe that Alastor was a father figure.
-As usual, the songs felt so shoehorned it. I feel like they actually distract from the plot. Not every fricking thing needs to be sung.
-It took the dad an hour to get there, but he just leaves in a puff of smoke?
-Alastor’s mouth is always stuck in the same v shaped position, no matter what he says. In the pilot he emoted better, and his mouth changed shape.
-The new character was rather pointless, only served a purpose so Alastor could flex.
-Animation was good, sometimes moves a bit too fast, hard to keep track of things.
-Didn’t really like the episode.
>The tension between Alastor and the dad is so forced, I never once felt any vibe that Alastor was a father figure
You never felt it because Alastor and Charlie did not talk to each other this entire season.
Six
-Better episode, didn’t mind it too much.
-Charlie just has wads of cash to throw around, as does Angel. Kinda makes me wonder how things work over there. Does everyone have a job like Angel? Where does Charlie get money from?
-The swearing was over the top, felt like it was to catch up for the lack of swears in ep 5, its too much.
-Cherry’s voice accent is inconsistent. Its like there is some Britshness that comes and goes.
-Without watching the pilot, you’d wonder why when she first comes in, that Sir Pentious dubs her an arch nemesis.
-I do not understand Sir Pentious’ flip flop of seeing Cherry as an enemey, to suddenly wanting to frick her, can someone explain that to me? That said, I found his approach stupid adorable.
-Angel didn’t need to escalate things with Val, could have just quiet took Niffty away and mostly ignored Vals comments. Instead this scene felt a bit forced to show that Angel could be redeemed, he goes, I feel, out of his way to say “don’t frick with her” and now his ass will be paying for it in the next shoot.
-Niffty is the most consistent character, I like her. I also like Sir Pentious.
-Again songs felt shoehorned, first one was pointless but the second one was kinda okay, liked how all the vocal performances interacted with each other.
-Its implied Vaggie killed thoustands, but one day had a sudden change of heart seeing one kid? Really? I thought there were no minors in hell?
-Also, if Vaggie can get killed and then be “sent” to hell, what about the angel that was beheaded by the arms dealer?
-In this episode, the entire hotel is made pointless because the higher ups in heaven put their foot down. No point in Charlie to try, because heaven just doesn’t want these people.
I feel like I should feel more, regarding these characters, but the series is speed running plot points. Episode 6 was “a month away” from the angels coming back, it was half a year like what, two episodes before? This series needs more episodes to pad it out I feel, needs some more lore and things to slowly simmer to grow a good story. It’s going too fast. I’d rather take a hit on the animation for a 13 episode first season than a rushed 8 episode season.
Also what happened to Vox? He's just gone again after one episode.
Also, the hotel is big, massive. Yet for the entire series, we have only ever seen the lobby. The hotel is so fricking useless and the show is named after it. Might as well have called the show "Heaven vs Hell" or some shit like that, the hotel does nothing to move the series forward. Its not getting new guests. Its just ...there.
This show could have been so much more than what it turned out to be. It's painfully mediocre. Good ideas, bad execution.
That makes no sense, wouldnt have Charlie been able to tell that it wasn't one of her people right then and there? Like she didnt know it was an angel? Also I swear Vaggie had her throat slit...
Why do people keep thinking that Charlie and Lucifer have some sort of angel-sense. Adam only recognized Vaggie because of her physical appearance, not because she smells like an angel or whatever.
Ive thought the previous episodes were funny and vibey but man this ep was actually quite kino. Lucifer has an actually unique personality that makes sense for his backstory and it avoids typical dad/daughter cliches. Alastor verbally fighting with Lucifer so he keeps influence over Charlie, the song itself was a banger. This is probably the season 1 hit.
>lucifer >kino >not cliche
He, Adam, Eve, Lilith are the oldest people in the universe and out of all of them Lucifer has no intimidating or commanding presence. He's pathetic, plain and simple. He's basically a clown doing cheap party tricks and gets instantly annoyed by Alastor who in relative to his life span is a fly on the wall on the list of sinners in Hell.
I really want to know what's going on with Vaggie's characterization. It feels like they don't know what to do with her. It would've been good if despite her feelings on the Exterminators and how she was disowned, she showed some sort of reaction to being back home after so long. Maybe recommend some place for Charlie to go to before she leaves.
Charlie looking totally mind broken at the reveal of Vaggie being an angel made me lol. I know she has a valid reason to be upset that her GF secretly forever murdered a bunch of "her people" but this face is so over the top
It's such dramatic bullshit so she and Vaggie can get a song together next episode. Charlie already knows Vaggie isn't like that anymore. You'd almost think Adam just got done telling her that Vaggie killed her mom.
>pack luggage >a portal opens to heaven >no luggage with them >suddenly luggage is in their hotel room >a portal opens to hell while in court >no luggage with them
Also, when it was revealed to the audience that Vaggie was an ex-angel, the scene in the hotel room, there should have been a musical cue of tension. Its a musical cartoon, but nothing happened to drive home the point of this surprising revelation. It just happens.
The show seems to be going with a mix of classical angelic hierarchies - the Seraphim are the top-tier. As an Archangel, Michael would be the second-*lowest* tier.
I do love Michael though and want to see him kick ass in more things.
I would have rather they left out Peter for precisely that reason; it's one thing to engage with ancient mythological deities, but Jesus and Peter are at *least* semi-historical people (and almost certainly actual-historical, but you get what I mean) and so suggest a specific history on Earth rather than being able to be a broad-strokes take on the mythology.
>Sir Pentious sacrifices himself to save another demon during the extermination >the angels watching in heaven have a holy frick are we the baddies moment and call off the extermination >Adam rages and refuses to stop and gets his ass beat to death by Charlie
Not sure Charlie would fight. Might be enough for the other overlords to do it, if only out of self preservation. But they might hear Adam's unusual targeting of her out of spite or whatever his deal is.
Adam can unitarily decide who is a fallen Angel. If he doesn't tell anyone else, no one in Heaven will ask where a missing angel (vaggie) ended up. Okay.
It isn't questioned because until like 5 minutes ago nobody knew what Adam was doing. Emily is horrified when she finds out, and a lot of the other angels in court seemed put off too.
>Show keeps teasing potential occupants of the Hotel >Mimzy and Cherri: hur hur no way i'd live here!
So far this show only has two people who are living in the hotel to be redeemed. Husk and Niffty are just the staff.
>Lucifer will be a great character >He won't be wasted >He won't be washed up >He won't be a confirmed cuckold >He will slap the other Overlords of Hell around
It's over. Dump your Lucifer crypto coins.
What the frick is this site obsession with cuckoldry and, more importantly, calling everything they don't like cuckoldry? You homosexuals use the word so much but none of you seem to know what it actually means
People think it was the real Lilith who split from Lucifer, but most importantly, the real Lilith is talking to another man so that makes Lucifer a cuck.
Why Adam is off the leash could be explained with nepotism, Adam was the first man who was cursed with the fruit of knowledge. That's why the big boy Angels let him skirt the rules. What can't be explained is why Lucifer still has fans and believers after that miserable display where he lives in a cuck shed, surrounded and adored by no one, and everyone in Heaven knows he's a divorced nobody while Lilith got the big Alastor wiener.
>What the frick is this site obsession with cuckoldry and, more importantly, calling everything they don't like cuckoldry?
To be a cuck us to be the ultimate degradation for a man, hence why it's frequently used as an insult for things/people that are weak/pathetic/self-destructive.
Also, you need to go back to plebbit you dumb Black person.
Yeah and that's why you wienersucking homosexuals fantasize about being cucked so much you project it on everything you see. Maybe you should cut back on all that cuckold porn and go touch some grass for once
>Viv apparently doesn’t want to put in god or Jesus or even mention him outside of very minute references despite the fact they are literally the center of the religion she’s doing a parody of >All because she apparently doesn’t want to create drama >Oh but the literal Saint Peter can be shown swearing and acting like a feminine secretary
What kind of moronic Fujo logic is going on in her brain.
I think the reason Jesus isn't in this show is because they know there's no way they could write, Jesus "Forgive thy neighbor" Son of Christ as doing or saying anything other than, "Alright, let's give them another chance." Without it coming off as forced.
Given that a big plot element is that the rules of entering Heaven are unclear to the angels themselves, Jesus presents a big problem in that he fundamentally changed the way people practice religion in the Abrahamic tradition; that is, there'd be a dividing line between People Who Got To Heaven Under The Old Rules and Post-Jesus Rules. So that's a huge logistical headache to have to deal with. OR you could portray Jesus as basically just being a prophet and a good guy - he didn't actually impact what the rules are, he was just an influential person. But then there's not much point in using him at all since he doesn't add much in that situation.
The show also seems to avoid bringing up the Bible at all now that I think about it. I thought during the court scene Adam was going to pull the book out and cherrypick some lines from it to keep wienerblocking Charlie, but he just pulled shit out of his ass.
See, the issue is that as faulty as "knowing about and believing some events that happened in Jerusalem" is in terms of a standard for whether or not you go to Heaven or hell, Christianity is probably the one religion that CAN'T be called out in terms of the standards for Heaven/Hell being too vague.
Jesus probably does not even exist here. Did everyone miss the entire intro to ep1?
In this version of the christian myth, Adam and Eve did not bear the first sin and were allowed be kept in Heaven. Heaven does not see humans as inherent sinners by default unlike the actual Bible, so there was no need for Jesus. Jesus was made by God to give humanity the posibility to get into heaven after the first sin, but there's no reason to do that here when the first sin did not happen.
This is likely why Heaven is so overprotective of "non sinners" to the point of doing the exterminations, because they're actually fighting with Hell over humanity instead of humanity just being left to do their choices outside of god's will.
NTA but we see cross imagery at several points in the series which raises the question - does this imply the existence of Jesus or is it just because Viv doesn't understand why the cross is so important in Christianity?
>doesn't understand why the cross is so important in Christianity?
Everyone fricking knows. You cultists won't stop b***hing about it every fricking day, if not minute.
The cross is likely there just for "le religious imagery" tho it is of note that the crucifix has existed as a symbol before the crucifixion and it was actually considered a heretic and evil symbol by christian followers for up until 200-300 years following Jesus's death.
>Jesus probably does not even exist here
For whatever reason, his name at the very least does exist in this universe. Characters use “christ” and “jesus christ” as an expletive multiple times. Hell, in Helluva Boss “Christ on a stick” is Blitzo’s fricking catch phrase.
Blitz did mention Christ as a part of his swears though, so at the very least Jesus exists in-universe as the idea. I guess he might just be a fictional religious character
Hmmm, could be. There's also a chance that maybe Jesus was sent more so as a message to all the fricked up bloodshed that was happening in history at the tame. Point is though that this is overall very different from classic christ stuff and we dont really know where its gonna go.
>Some people are randomly "born" into a clean safe society >Others are randomly "born" into a dangerous shithole
The whole show is a metaphor for white privilege.
Yeah I've said that if it weren't for extermination a lot of people would clearly prefer this version of Hell to this version of Heaven. It's ancapistan
Is a shill campaign running on Tumblr or something? People saying the show turned good in just two episodes when they did anything but confirm the show is heading to be a total shitfest.
Reminder that in Shin Megami Tensei Lucifer calls Satan a homosexual for doing God's work for free like a b***h and Satan naturally hates him for trying to frick up God's law and order.
Her "real" face is cute i won't deny it, but i liked better when there was the possibility that those "masks" were actually their real faces, it thought it made the exterminators more interesting and unique
dude this show has way too many chains for the production staff to NOT be into it. the portrayal of power dynamics or rape in this show is so fricking unserious. i don't know what the frick they were trying to achieve by showing val's fricking foot-long tongue but i don't think it was to intimidate.
The show is not only failing up to their initial premise, but now is picking up more reasons to be shit.
People were running massive damage control a few days back saying >B-but this isn't real portrayal of christianity!!!!!
And now you get a ridiculous portrayal of Heaven and St. Peter. I feel like I'm watching a /misc/ show but made in Tumblr.
Why do the angels not know what it takes for humans to get to heaven... when they created them?
Why did the angels let Adam become an angel in charge of exterminating his own offspring when he was the guy who caused this whole situation to begin with? Was it supposed to be some kind of ironic punishment? He clearly doesn't think so and is having a great time with it, so do they somehow not notice that? Are they stupid?
Why was Charlie so surprised by the angels being corrupt and inept when she was literally raised on stories told by Lucifer and Lilith that the angels carried out the exterminations with the express purpose of preventing Hell from rising up against them? Is she stupid?
How do the exterminations even work? Is annihilating a soul from existence even actually possible? Is that what the angelic weapons do? If the angels don't want the souls in Hell rising up against them, why don't they just immediately permakill every single damned soul with angelic weapons from the start?
If Vaggie is an angel, why does she randomly speak Spanish sometimes? Is she a Hispanic angel? Are the exterminator angels former humans like Adam or are they just a different thing altogether like the other species in Hell? If a soul of a dead human can fall then doesn't that obviously mean that it can also be redeemed? Isn't Vaggie's mere existence implicit proof of this, in plain sight?
Why does Charlie even think Heaven is desirable in the first place if she's literally the daughter of the first guy to rebel against it and get kicked out?
Why did Lucifer agree to send Charlie to meet with Heaven if he already knows that they'll never agree to her ideas? Was it just to teach her a lesson? Is he a secret butthole?
If Alastor was like the most feared demon ever and he only disappeared 7 years ago, why has Charlie never even heard of him when she's way older than 7? Did she just never go outside or interact with anyone until then?
>Why was Charlie so surprised by the angels being corrupt and inept when she was literally raised on stories told by Lucifer and Lilith that the angels carried out the exterminations with the express purpose of preventing Hell from rising up against them? Is she stupid?
Her entire character is dragging this show down. She's frustratingly stupid.
>Why did Lucifer agree to send Charlie to meet with Heaven if he already knows that they'll never agree to her ideas? Was it just to teach her a lesson? Is he a secret butthole?
He clearly didn't want to in the episode and only did so after Charlie begged him/guilted him into it. The idea being she is an adult and gets to make her own choices even if it's pointless. >If Alastor was like the most feared demon ever and he only disappeared 7 years ago, why has Charlie never even heard of him when she's way older than 7? Did she just never go outside or interact with anyone until then?
At least on this point Lucifer doesn't seem to know Alastor either so it might be the household was just in it's own little bubble. Although with Vaggie's backstory now revealed it begs the question how she knew about him but that scene was in the pilot and I don't know if that's canon or not anymore.
Do you have ADHD?
All of these answers can be easily answered by just actually watching the show, anon, pay attention next time and stop speedwatching.
>
Why was Charlie so surprised by the angels being corrupt and inept when she was literally raised on stories told by Lucifer and Lilith that the angels carried out the exterminations with the express purpose of preventing Hell from rising up against them?
Because her core character trait, for good and ill, is that she assumes the best of everyone. She takes the Angels completely at their word that the Exterminations happen *only* to prevent Hell from growing powerful enough to rise against them. Because she believes the best in everyone, she assumes that if she can simply resolve the underlying problem by making it so Hell's numbers don't exceed Heaven's, they'll stop the Exterminations.
She's shocked when Adam says he doesn't care and wants to keep doing them simply for his own amusement. But even then, she assumes that the *other* angels are surely more reasonable.
>Why did Lucifer agree to send Charlie to meet with Heaven if he already knows that they'll never agree to her ideas? Was it just to teach her a lesson? Is he a secret butthole?
Did you watch the show? He's desperate for a relationship with his daughter and did it as a favor under pressure.
That being said, Lucifer's blackpilled viewpoint is clearly shown to be wrong.
Yes, Heaven rejects Charlie's ideas, but it's notable that most of the angels there who weren't named Sera, Adam, or Lute seemed willing to give it a shot. Emily was openly enthusiastic. The problem isn't "Heaven won't ever listen".
It's that a handful of angels acting in bad faith won't listen. His views about sinners being unable to change are also wrong, as shown by Angel Dust being a good friend at the club.
Let's rate new songs >hell's great dad
10/10 for the first half, but then the second half RUINED. Wish it kept the beat from that first half for the entire song, and didn't have Mimsy fricking ruin the last part (even more). 5/10 for second half, 3/10 for Mimsy >more than anything
Not on my favorites list, but it was very sweet to listen to and nowhere near the bottom. Solid 8/10 >welcome to heaven
6/10. Average, but not the worst. Not really much to say about it >you didn't know
Solid 10/10, especially the Hell is Forever reprise.
I'm gonna be pissed if Charlie makes a big stink about Vaggie being an ex-exterminator when she's all buddy buddy with an unapologetic murderous cannibal.
She might just ask her why she didn't tell her more about heaven, I guess. Though I'm not sure there are many details that would help with regard to the Hotel, as even with the court no one fricking knew what the rules are.
It's Viv, just look at the controversy of her favorite list videos in her youtube Zoophibia account, and how she hired a artist with a rape kink for the show
It's her FETISH, no matter how much she tries to deny it
Sera is strongly giving off the impression that there's something above her that's >immensely powerful >she can't talk about >they all want to avoid catching the attention of/pissing off
and I hope it's not Roo.
Between her, Lilith, and Alastor, all of the allusions to “something even BIGGER secretly going on” are feeling a little overhyped, and I really hope it pays off and isn’t fumbled too hard.
From what I know, Seraphim are high ranking but there are higher ranked angels aren’t there?
Like dudes like Michael would rank over her, then Jesus and God himself.
The only christianity sect that has a defined hierarchy of angels and saints is american sects and thats because all of their texts are just blatant fanfiction and "Trust me bros".
Im not even the person u were originally talking to, just making a point. Actual christian texts are confusing and contradictory because they come from a bunch of different dudes over the span of 1000 years. Anything that tries to make sense of it is likely just lying to you.
I mean, we still have christian texts from around the same period contradicting whether or not Nimrod is an actual biblical figure.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Anything that tries to make sense of it is likely just lying to you.
Religious texts, lying to me? Say it isn't so.
He draws Sonic characters in a more anthro style like a lot of the better Sonic Furry Artists out there. People just b***h at him for not doing them on-model
>anthro style like a lot of the better Sonic Furry Artists out there.
There is a right and wrong way to apply those traits. Also, better is subjective. You are taking the head and simply placing it on an adult body. Anyone can do that. Real artists can adapt to and shows style and draw it a bit more on model.
He draws Sonic characters in a more anthro style like a lot of the better Sonic Furry Artists out there. People just b***h at him for not doing them on-model
It's like a signature, Aval0nX has a very distinctive lineart style, precise in some parts and lazy in others, he also tends to use very specific settings in the program he uses. Same goes for picture dimensions, resolution, fonts, etc. It's not hard
Speaking personally it's easy to identify certain other people by the settings they use in digital art. I use procreate and an ipad to draw myself and can see the styles that people are using to produce their work. It's not that surprising that someone on Cinemaphile could do this, they are a lot of professional animators here
>nipples
you can make the argument that from that angle you wouldn't see them if they aren't hard/the fur is covering the areola >asscrack
probably an animation error.
Got a nice picture of the three homosexuals who echo chamber hate against hazbin on twitter
How long until they drop the mask and admit they love the show?
She probably didn’t tell him, and even when she dies tell him things, it’s clear he sometimes doesn’t pay attention/doesn’t remember. He didn’t even remember her mentioning the hotel, which was clearly very important to her. So while she was definitely already seeing Vaggie at the time he called her five moths ago, she also possibly didn’t say anything about the relationship.
Roo is the primordial force of evil (preceding Adam, Lilith, the fall of Lucifer and the creation of Hell and demons), who reached Earth/Eden when Eve ate the apple (and maybe Roo is possesing Eve's body), right?
I wonder if there is a primordial force of goodness and God (neutral, creator), or it just God.
It would be funny if they shoehorned God into this show at the last minute showing him to basically be a shut in neet who treats heaven/hell/earth like his neglected project that he's stressing out about in the back of his head while he paints miniatures and seraph and the angel council are completely directionless as a result. and when I meant funny i meant it's probably going to be that
>People saying Lute is hot >Lute looks like a constantly ticked-off 50 year old personally I think Emily is cuter, and only in the "adorable puppy" way
I dislike how from now on a good portion of her fanart is now going to potray her as...just this... instead of the black-skin Angel with interesting mask-face
That's what you think and it's completely valid, i just think that she was more visually interesting with the idea of that "mask" being her actual face
Will Alastor be revealed to be enslaved/enserfed to Lilith in the same way Husk and probably Niffty are to him and how Angel is to Val? Or will it be more like an informal thing?
Definitely heard somebody else say they picked up Friend Like Me vibes from the song, so you’re not alone. I can see it, though I didn’t think of it on my own at first watch.
It doesn't *sound* anything like Friend Like Me, but with Lucifer appearing as a fancy restaurant chef AND doing the slot-machine thing AND this frame of him conjuring piles of wealth?
Yeah, Friend Like Me is a huge inspiration for this song.
It doesn't *sound* anything like Friend Like Me, but with Lucifer appearing as a fancy restaurant chef AND doing the slot-machine thing AND this frame of him conjuring piles of wealth?
Yeah, Friend Like Me is a huge inspiration for this song.
This scene, the restaurant, and all the times he's made copies of himself really sold the genie inspiration for me
their expressions in this pic are what sells it for me.
Shame the whole "on model" discussion is probably going to scare him away and these are probably going to be the only pics we're going to get
kek the only people who think Lucifer is good in this show are biological women fans. What an emasculated little cuck Lucifer turned out to be, even Angel has more self-respect and better image projection than Lucifer crying in his cuck shed.
It was so forced putting this jeaously thing between the two. Besides since Lucifer cares about his daughte he would have known the radio demon was hanging out with Charlie, which would set off all parental bells in his head. I did hear an interesting theory that Alastor got so strong in hell because he made a deal with Lilith and now she's asking for him to pay his end of the bargain by babysitting Charlie with her powers being lent to Alastor on that condition. And for those keeping track that means >Lucifer isn't respected by his population >Lucifer has nothing to say to Overlords of Hell >Lucifer's wife takes his child >Lucifer's wife gives her powers to Alastor >Lucifer's only child is getting dad love from Alastor >Lucifer stays in his cuck shed talking to ugly duckings as a metaphor for souls lost in hell who can only-BAWHAHA HE'S A FRICKING KEK
LMAO
This. Honestly I'm starting to think the theory that both Vox and Alastor draw power based on recognition and fame is right. Alastor always gets VERY salty whenever someone doesn't fall over themselves to suck his dick.
Happened when Carmella just shrugged at him being back too.
The most powerful forced in his universe set out to break his spirit, and they succeeded. I really can’t blame him for having a defeatist attitude when that is his whole life.
It really is a shitty take on him since he's the king of hell and should prefer that sinners remain sinners and not submit to God and the other angels because that would prove him wrong for the damage that he did.
>The face Charlie makes when Alastor puts his hand on her cheek while singing >Making an audible ‘ahh!’ When he says how they’ve got ‘such a great bond’
She doesn’t want to betray Vaggie
But part of her ‘wants it‘ so bad.
He was weirdly protective of the hotel in that convo with the fat chick so maybe Viv is having him genuinely warm up to Charlie instead of just using her idk
3 months ago
Anonymous
I hope there is a little bit of duplicity and hidden motives in his actions. Like you think he's warming up but then he does something that solidifies he's just as big a bastard as everyone thought, then at the end of his arc gets redeemed.
The more I watch it, the more convinced I am that the show is going with either with a more gnostic route and God is really part of the universe or interact with it (the angels being just deluded archons), or a platonic route with God being just the form of Good and not really a being with a will proper
The Serpent in the garden being a well intended messager is directly lifted from Sethian Gnosticism, altho ig that could be by accident in Vivs case. I doubt she's read the gnostic texts.
UHHHH guys? Sir pentious was supposed to not have sex before marriage.... And he had a lot of sex this episode. Like sex with strangers, a lot of strangers. What's that about? Well well well we're back at square one. He won't be the first soul to get redeemed like I thought
now that I know there are kids in hell I demand Vivzie give us pedo representation and many scenes of those kids being sexxed like they are meant to be
>lucifer keks can only say IT DOESN'T COUNT NOT THE REAL LILITH >HE'S A BIG HOT SHOT
Yeah, lucifer in hazbin hotel takes all the shots from angel dust to the mouth in-between his crying. sell sell! dump your Lucifer stock right now!
I’m normally not for cuckposting, but it really is funny how within minutes of Emily being introduced she’s got so much more chemistry with Charlie and they even sing a song together.
>Miss Cinemaphile is forever whether you like it or not! >Petty squabbling about rigging won’t change the results or did you forgot-? >That Lute is best bae and she’s the only queen who slay >When she face the wannabe champs just to climb her way up again
>Vaggie wanted to out of heave ASAP not because she feared Charlie learning the truth about her >But because she feared being cucked by Emily, who out-angels her in every aspect
Doesnt the fact that Lute believes that Angels dont make mistakes completely contradict how she treated Vaggie for not wanting to kill a demon child? Especially since the whole extermination thing is viewed as a game for them. Lute believes heaven and hell are forever and there are no mistakes in who gets placed where and then she inmediately damns one of her own kind, placed in heaven, just for not wanting to slaughter a child. Seems dumb and contrived.
It's almost like Adam and Lute are meant to be hypocrites and terrible people.
But more seriously, Lute seems very much like the "orders are orders and orders are all that matters" type of character, so Vaggie refusing their directive to kill every demon they catch would probably be seen in her eyes as way worse than the act of killing a damned child who she presumably thinks deserves to be there.
It's a little vague, but it's suggested that Adam *created* Lute and the other Exorcists. Angels *can* create life, and he apparently is the one who gave Vaggie her name, which would be odd for her to not have one before that.
>you guys don't even know what brings a soul to heaven?!
This plot point feels a little bit forced, is like Vivzie is trying to bring some type of bug in the matrix as if there's rules people don't know.....how are you even going to make this shit make sense without even having a "God" to explain why things are the way they are
The problem with it is it’s pretty damn clear how to get into heaven: just don’t be an evil fricking butthole in life like literally every Sinner in hell was.
>Except Adam is just as bad as any random sinner so it's not really clear.
Oh yeah sure! being mysoginist and a bit of a jerk is the exact same of being a cannibal serial killer, a junkie mobster, or a pimp rapist
How do you reconcile your idea that EVERY sinner in Hell is "a cannibal serial killer", a "junkie mobster" or a "pimp rapist" with the fact that Hell gets way more people than Heaven does? Surely you don't think the *median* person is one of those three things?
Maybe it’s the shows fault for not having any minor sin or crime committing sinners and everyone being over the top evil.
It’s either bad writing, or heaven has a very lenient entry levels so even buttholes like Adam can get in.
You could argue that killing souls for good, damned or not, is worse than anything a human could do in their life on Earth. If some dickweed stabs you on Earth, at least you keep existing, whether as a demon or an angel. Exorcists, on the other hand, are the end of the line, and it doesn't look like they care how severe your sins were when they mow you down.
Another issue might be that he's literally running a glowBlack person op in secrecy from the rest of the heaven and is enjoying every second of it.
Do exorcists kill hellborn too? Or only sinners? It seems like they just do it on random because that's the only option if he'll doesn't cooperate
3 months ago
Anonymous
At least one went for that hellborn's daughters.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I thought Carmilla was a sinner.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Carmella isn't hellborn. She's a sinner. All the overlords are.
Oh, sorry, I'm moronic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I mean it's a fair point. Pride has both Hellborn and Sinners, and some sinners look pretty similar to the former so idk how the Angels tell the difference reliably.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Carmella isn't hellborn. She's a sinner. All the overlords are.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think they kill everyone in Pride (Vaggie was about to kill one kid of the cannibal hellborn demons). The thing is Hellborn demons can get out of Pride, sinners cant, so they can leave Pride until the Extermiantion is over (but that means their business and homes are without protection of the angels and other demons) or stay and wait the best.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Alright so sinners can't leave that pentagram city and hellborns can explore all of hell if they want to? Hellborns should just move out of that city if exterminations happen only there. That's how it works?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yes. Sinners are banned from leaving Pride. They can presumably visit anywhere in Pride they want, but beyond that Lucifer bans them.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So Lucifer made being outside of pride as a sinner illegal and any hellborn imp has permission to shoot sinners on sight if they're outside of the city? Or is there a magical barrier that prevents them from going outside? Living in a city of any kind must suck, not to mention being bound to a hell city
3 months ago
Anonymous
And why are there cities named after human sins but sinners can only stay in Pride?
3 months ago
Anonymous
I honestly don't know how they enforce that rule, idt it's ever been said.
3 months ago
Anonymous
And why are there cities named after human sins but sinners can only stay in Pride?
I honestly don't know how they enforce that rule, idt it's ever been said.
I think it's a thing where he's embarrassed by them. They're walking proof of how his beliefs are shit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It’s not explained but I assume it’s like a magic barrier that prevents Sinners from passing to other rings, since we’ve seen some of the others in HB and it’s only hellspawn no sinners at all.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So Lucifer made being outside of pride as a sinner illegal and any hellborn imp has permission to shoot sinners on sight if they're outside of the city? Or is there a magical barrier that prevents them from going outside? Living in a city of any kind must suck, not to mention being bound to a hell city
I honestly don't know how they enforce that rule, idt it's ever been said.
This question was answered on viv's patreon, which is that the rule is just a law, and that sinners can enter the other rings. It's more akin to crossing borders illegally.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Then I think everyone would escape the executions to the other sectors than pride and exorcists would have to destroy the entire pentagram city randomly like I said. Even hellborns wouldn't be spared in this randomness. Why do people assume pride is the only place sinners can be?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Assume Sinners are hells equivalent of violent illegal immigrants.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Why do people assume pride is the only place sinners can be?
Canon fact
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Why do people assume pride is the only place sinners can be?
because that little piece of trivia is locked behind a paywall, and leaking patreon content is looked down upon. I ABSOLUTELY HATE when a creator locks the lore of their stuff behind a paywall. Like why?
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's like paying for onlyfans. b***h I can watch the leaks instead of paying
3 months ago
Anonymous
Adam's song "Hell is Forever" is pretty clear that the victims of the Exterminations are all sinners; else Adam would not use the excuse that they all had had their chance in life and wasted it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sinners can go to any part of Pride (which has multiple cities/settlements like Imp City), but they're largely settled in Pentagram City.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sinners can only move in pride (all the circle), the thing is, for what see, the rest of Pride is just desert. I think Pentagram City is super massive (and Pride relative small), with many parts, subcities and neighborhoods (like Imp-city and Stolas Castle). The only place we know located in Pride outside Pentagram City is Andrealphus's castle).
So, the Hellborn demons can move to other circles or stay in safe places and wait. Sinners wait the best (Overlords dont need to worry, they have bunkers, like the V's Tower, but common sinners... they are pretty fricked).
3 months ago
Anonymous
I don't get how that pentagram city sectors work. So in this picture one part of that is pride city and sinners are stuck there right? I guess overlords are sinners too and they have this organization to survive exterminations? If sinners invaded overlord bunkers at exterminations then the overlords are strong enough to not let any common sinners inside I guess.
I agree. If you don't end up in hell then you deserve to be in heaven, simple for me. The question should be how do you end up in hell, not how you end up in heaven.
There would not be an overpopulation problem in Hell for the angels to purge annually unless more than 50% of people go to Hell. The median person isn't "an evil fricking butthole".
If you had any actual experience with people in a real world setting you would know that most people are vapid and selfish, and that human nature is one of inherent selfishness.
But instead you're a sheltered dweeb, telling others to touch grass. You probably live in some backwater small town in the Midwest.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I think your chakras need realigning my dude
3 months ago
Anonymous
The average person looking out for number 1 isn't the same as the average person being a psychotic serial killer
3 months ago
Anonymous
My dude I'm ivy-league educated living in my own house just outside the city on the coast. You're too trapped in your own self-loathing to see anything in others beyond your own hatred.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I dunno, maybe I'm naive and gotten lucky, but usually I find that when I get to know people they're alright. Definitely not always saints, and sure people have self interests, but if you treat people with respect they'll generally reciprocate.
That's not confirmed in the show, but even if it were confirmed, sinners are all in the Pride ring; they're not segregated out by sin. So that doesn't directly prove anything.
Do you NEED to be evil to end up in hell or is the entry barrier just fricking up once? I'm sure there's a ton of evil people in heaven, but all things considered the majority of the population should just be people who just weren't good enough
They are setting him up to be some kind of rockstar. I dont know if that will go anywhere though. But it would be very funny seeing Charlie having to try and redeem this chauvinistic butthole. Perhaps the place to start is how he doesnt seem to treat Lute differently just because shes a woman.
One thing that bugs me is the fact that yeah everyone sins but most people search for redemption while they are alive, they keep pushing this whole "Omg Adam is such an butthole why a guy like this is heaven" joke...but the dude could've easily searched forgiveness after the whole apple shit and went full butthole while being in heaven
>joke...but the dude could've easily searched forgiveness after the whole apple shit and went full butthole while being in heaven
This is the root of the problem. We see that angels CAN be barred from heaven, as happened with the Cherubim who accidentally killed a human in helluva boss, but apart from that it seems like some angels are just above the law/it gets ignored as long as they don't get caught sinning.
If Hell is actually gonna be forever then there needs to be a mechanism by which people in heaven can get reliably tossed out for being lapsed. That's the only fair way to do it.
That's fair, it was pretty rushed. But similarly I see why they wouldn't want to make the angels too large a part of the cast and draw attention from the demons.
That's fair, it was pretty rushed. But similarly I see why they wouldn't want to make the angels too large a part of the cast and draw attention from the demons.
I like the song but yeh we should have gotten an episode of Charlie and Emily hanging out before the court drama
Can I just say it's kind of refreshing that when I google who the actors are in this show, they all have a big list of musical stage work?
Like goddamn Hollywood keeps casting non-singing actors in their musicals. I love Meryl Streep, but goddamn please stop putting her in musicals. Hire these people, they're amazing.
honestly this isn't even an issue having to do with generals not being allowed, because on ye olde Cinemaphile even if something didn't have a threads saying "THIS IS THE OFFICIAL GENERAL" in the title, people still jumped into existing threads to talk about the thing they like
but now idiots don't know how Ctrl + F, nor care because once a thread has more than 10 posts it might as well be worthless to speak in so they gotta start their own
OP here, good idea
No anon you don't understand, if there's a thread about Fionna's boobies in the catalog, I can't go in there and talk about her feet! That would be preposterous! I have to make another one dedicated to her feet. And then the next guy has to make one dedicated to her left armpit, but because he forgot to include the right one, now someone else has to make a thread for *that*
I'm still convinced that Alastor is some take of clone or manifestation of Lucifer based on the pilot 4 years ago.
No, I think Lilith has a type, and that's why she left Lucifer for Alastor.
I'm sorry anon, but it just makes sense to me.
This feels like the point the pacing is unavobadle bad.
Yes, the rushing is real. We are 5 episodes in and already Charlie is crying for her dad to come help. We are 6 episodes in and already we get into heaven. We have not even done that much worldbuilding in hell yet. Its all going so fast. Which I guess kinda makes sense since every episode has 2 songs, which just destroy your ability to worldbuild.
It was okay. Raises more questions than answers.
The turned the Lucifer into a total pussy.
Ruler of hell my ass. The dude is like five feet tall.
>The dude is like five feet tall.
The whole point is that height doesnt really matter. And I am sure Lucifer could make himself taller if he wanted to.
I mean his height is one thing but did they really have add the rubber ducky fetish?
He's a washed up loser who won't even look for his wife.
Did you miss the Ugly Duckling metaphor?
Lucifer's dream was to see the wondrous things that his creations (which in this series includes humans, as it seems all the angels contributed) would do and become. He's been cursed to only see the worst of them.
I'll be honest with you. It went right over my head.
There’s lots of shows where elements are completely surface-level or “random”.
This, however, is a show made by people who, for better or worse, are extremely passionate about it, given there seems to have been like five years of nonstop world building and character development and writing going on behind it. When I glanced at the wiki, it’s full of insanely inconsequential details that randomly got revealed in podcasts over the years. Also they’re musical theater nerds.
The point being, THIS is the kind of work where *everything* is dripping with symbolism and meaning. Whether that *pays off* depends on how the show continues and concludes its story.
The most obvious example is Alastor’s link to Lilith. No connection is made explicit, but they both had been absent for 7 years. This isn't the kind of show that would blow that off as a coincidence just to red-herring the audience.
there's so much fricking information happening in every shot, it's exausting
They could have chosen something else than the ugly duckling
We haven’t seen enough of Lucifer yet, so I’m just speculating based on literary symbolism here, but consider this:
The Ugly Duckling is a story about a child who is raised as a.. well, a duck, but suffers ridicule and trauma due to not meeting the expectations of what a Duck Should Be, including its appearance (hence the title). Its story only ends happily when it realizes it was unhappy because it was trying to meet the wrong expectations - in the story, literally because it’s a swan, but metaphorically, when it learns to set its *own* expectations for itself, it leans that it is beautiful for the traits it *has*; it is not ugly for the traits it lacks.
Lucifer’s creation, his daughter, is the Princess of Hell and understands demons as “her people”. She’s absolutely never going to succeed in Hell by *Hell’s* standards - violence, fear, use of force; it’s just not what she is. But she’s not a sinner-demon; she’s an angel, at least partly. Lucifer wants to see her (metaphorically) transform into the six-winged angelic bird we see during the song.
The whole point is Viv wants to be contrarian by giving "short kings" representation, on a character meant to be gigantic and imposing
I feel represented as a manlet.
>Dude he should be le evil because he ceo of evil Land.
Frick off, this lucifer is way better for the show those Tumblrgay are trying to make
It's fun to see the side of an angel in Lucifer for once and being an actual characther against sins and swearing pushing more the Idea that being the ruler of hell is punishment
It's like sinners being immortal, it's not made to be a gift but to spread even more suffering with no escape
What? I was also scared they'd turn Lucifer into a pussy, but they clearly didn't. He showed no hesitations confronting and looking down on Alestor and was ready to throw down. Just because he has depression and family issues it clearly doesn't make him a pussy in terms of fighting.
He wasn't ready to throw down, he took Alastor's mocking like a b***h and never said a thing back. If he actually wanted to throw down he should've killed Viv's cringy donutsteel. They made him into a pussy who takes shit from gaylastor
>Kill kill kill
Yawn.. holy shit can't believe Cinemaphile show that they're bigger shit writer than Viziepoop, the Queen of the hack c**t writer.
Alastor immediately said he was helping Charlie so Lucifer couldn't just kill him in front of her daughter, it would also show that mere insult who break the king of hell wich would be also pathetic
It's like yelling at a dog who bark at you, god job kneeling that low
The part that confused is that Alastor has always played up the “sly and manipulative” aspect yet openly bragged about grooming Charlie in front of her dad and got into a dick measuring contest with him. Just seemed a little out of character.
Alastor is ALLERGIC, FRICKING HATE to not be on top of the world.
He is pissy everytime someone is talking about how he left for 7 years, when Carmilia didn't care that he was back or got super mad when Husk said he got someone above him.
So to have the Big Boss himself just be around him piss him off so much and know he can't do shit against that
Little bit of pushing his buttons to see how he responds. Because why wouldn't you want to mess with the big boss in a way he can't hit you back directly with?
But I suspect the other thing might be to get a sense of angelic energy since Lucifer appears to still have full use of it. The subplot of the dead exterminator seems to be heading their way with Adam declaring he's aiming straight at the Hotel. I don't think Charlie and Vaggie can hide that so Alastor will have to do something about it. There's the little preview of the cannibals appearing to at least encircle Charlie in a good way while singing about going to war, so something is brewing, very unlikely the other overlords would listen to Charlie at all without him.
I suspect Adam will be completely brainwashed during the extermination to specifically attack alaster and the hotel, so they’ll have to undo it and kill Vox once and for all.
he felt very out of character in both of these episodes if I'm frank. I didn't like him actively, with his words just stating that he could rip Husk's soul a part. That felt edgy and childish. Like something I might have had an OC say when I was in highschool, and I was a big JTHM fan so I know what I'm talking about here.
But he is edgy and childish.
Not in the diegesis. Viv seems to want him to seem cool and mysterious and powerful, and also seems incapable of actually characterizing him that way.
Don't hate on a short king, anon.
You know she wanted him.
Doesn't Weird Al never swear or something? Vivzie wouldn't be able to write a dialogue without any curse words.
I mean he doesn’t in his music, and apparently not in his personal life. I don’t know if he’s got a rule where he’ll never do it for an acting job.
He would have been wackier and use the accordion more
Why did they even have a strained relationship? Seems like he loves the shit out of her yet also ignored her for reasons?
I think he loves her but doesn't know how to be a father and he's kind of a goofy sperg, but he's written very poorly so that doesn't come across properly at all.
Probably the worst version of Lucifer I've seen. I don't know why writing a strong dad seems to be Viv kryptonite. I feel like there's no real purpose for him in Hell. Even his presents amongst other hell people seems to be down played.
Hyperbole. The last Lucifer I saw was in Good Omens and that was worse. There have been many worse devils.
I don't have any input on the new episodes I just want everyone's opinion on this face Charlie is making.
Can someone explain Adam to me? I assumed it was the first human but apparently I'm wrong.
It's the first human.
Someone in another thread said Adam had become a title or something like that.
Pure headcanon from whoever said that
He's the dickmaster
Adam is the first human. He's a flawed human being because his wife Eve gave him he fruit of knowledge which let sin into his body. All this happened because Lucifer fricked around and found out. Adam by all accounts should have a hate boner for Lucifer and Lucifer's daughter Charlie but it's not addressed in the show at all. Instead Adam just kills demons to keep Hell from growing too large and has no vendetta with Lucifer or his family.
Not once has Adam said "How's your mother, Charlie?" since that was his first wife.
Lucifer is a joke btw, he was going to be super charismatic or super evil. Instead he's a divorced depressed dad who has thrown in the towel. His home is shit, trying to build things in Hell will be torn down by random hell sinners, rehabilitating souls to send back to Heaven was a passion project he failed, he can't even set foot on Earth to see the fruits of his labor when he gave mankind the fruit of knowledge, he has no day-to-day communication with the Overlords of hell, his powers are a total joke, his songs were bad, he has no wife, his only blood in Hell has no angelic powers so he cucked his own genes. I could go on.
Well at least Satan could show up. Satan is one of God's angels who test man's piety and regularly has a courtroom to explain to God why some random Joe is a sinner. God created Satan to be a gatekeeper and pseudo Judge like the Egyptian Anubis. Satan has no relation with Lucifer. We're 0 with Adam, 0 with Lucifer, so Satan has his work cut out to pick up the slack for these losers.
You're a bit sad, aren't you?
?
Lucifer lost.
Wait wait wait wait.... so the fanfictiin idea everyone had before this show was in production is true? Vaggie is a fallen angel?
Yes, but considering she was maimed by Lute entirely on her own authority for the “crime” of NOT murdering a single demon, and that the exterminations are extremely off-the-record, it’s an open question what that consequentially *means*. She WAS permitted to enter Heaven while Lucifer was not, suggesting the rules of banishment are far more political than magically binding.
No, it suggests the banishment of Lucifer is magically binding, and Vaggie chose not to return to Heaven (or had no way to, prior to Charlie, but also clearly didn't want to).
I suppose I should have clarified. I meant that being a “fallen angel” doesn’t seem to be existentially different from a not-fallen angel; it’s a social status. Lucifer’s banishment is magically enforced *by the angels*, as opposed to being a Cosmic Law, which DO seem to exist since they govern what souls go to Heaven.
Lucifer also still has all his body parts intact, so it’s not merely about being maimed.
Not only that but it was a love at first sight story with Charlie nursing her back to health
Her backstory makes her even more boring
Keep in mind we will probably have maybe 3 seasons at the absolute most.
>Season 1 is 8 episodes
>most cartoon season 1s are long and 2 is ordered before 1 is done, but is shorter
>season 2 will probably be 6 episodes
>season 3 (if it gets made) will be maybe 8 episodes
Many complaints are this first season feels way too rushed. If they haven't started work yet I imagine they're pushing Amazon to allow more episodes, or longer runtimes maybe, not sure how all that works.
This begs the question. If A24 really took this thing seriously, why not give it more than 10 episodes?
I feel like the real reason this was made is that A24 wants to hold on to it's whole "THE indie filmmaker company" title and saw the buzz around the pilot. If indie animation is an up-and-coming market? They wanted in.
GLITCH is more indie than A24 honestly.
Also animation is still treated like crap, hence why it was rushed
Based on its success I can see it getting 4 seasons in total.
mega?
I really dont see Husk and Angel Dust as a love couple. Best friends sounds much better, and not every character must fall in love with another character.
But of course, the fandom is just a bunch of oversensitive teenagers in 30 year old bodies who dont know how a real adult works, so Viv and the other writters wont risk themselves to be doxxed because one of the most dumb ships isnt canon.
People think they started a romance? That was the most obvious “what you need is someone who appreciates you OUTSIDE of sex and romance” song I’ve ever heard
Shippers can be crazy yo. Angel and Husk are obviously better suited as a mentor/mentee friendship relationship
They has been ship them sisnce the pilot, but only because Angel said his typical sex comment and throw a kiss to Husk (Husk didnt give a shit), but you know this fandom: minimal interaction between 2 characters = they are sooo in love.
I will say it again, i dont really see them in love, and i think they work better like "two people trying to get free of their jailers (Val and Alastor) and open up emotionally to others".
Sadly, people these days dont know about friendship, only "im good with you, so we must kiss, frick and love eachother because..."
I ship Vaggie and Angel Dust, have her cure him of his homosexualry sins and turn him straight.
Reminder that shippers are the biggest plague in the world of stories fans
Never allow a shipper to talk as this is how cancer are born
the handling of relationships in general in hazbin is all over the place. husk/angel feel way more like a sort of familial bond, husk being the sort of "dad" of the group would make way more sense for his character in general, i just can't buy there being anything romantic between him and angel, it purely feels like a friendship.
meanwhile when viv actually does try to force a sort of father/child relationship with alastor/charlie to deter the shippers, it does the complete opposite and purely adds more fuel to the romance, i don't care for shipping at all in this show but ironically the song with alastor & lucifer made me actually understand why people like charlastor so much after that.
vaggie/charlie barely even feel like a couple, it's a shame because i think they have good chemistry potential but they don't really do anything with it, episode 6 felt like it was in part trying to remind people that they're together.
>Husk and Angel
Clearly a friendship, at least to me. Husk is a bit older, sure, so that has an effect on it, but they're friends lol.
>Vaggie and Charlie
I don't see what the problem is. They're an established couple, not a new romance, so they act like one.
>Clearly a friendship
that's what i'm saying, but viv's already said multiple times that they're going to be a couple and it's what the show has been trying to set up, even the official twitter has been fuelling it, but i just can't see them as a couple whatsoever.
Just one word...
god why does a pedophile furgay write funnier and better written stuff than the "industry people".
That is one flat angel
Well KEK. I have seen the Daily Wire get angry about this. The bullshit has came alive.
There was a guy a few months ago who was emailing Fox News, TPUSA and the Daily Wire about the show, trying to get them angry, because they wanted to watch Tucker Carlson rant about "fat Vivzie". It was an epic troll. Sadly it didn't work. I myself did it with Russian TV networks trying to convince them that this proves that the West is Satanic. It didn't work either. Except:
KEK. Alas it came true. https://youtu.be/OUN4FdH1_VA
I kinda hope to see Putin get angry over this and b***h like with Harry Potter. It would le epic KEK of all time. So if we get nuked. It is my fault, sorry.
From the leaked scene of Alastor meeting Lucifer last week I was afraid that they were gonna turn Lucifer into a weakling pushover or something. Pleasantly surprised to see a character who struggles with depression and has flaws, but who still is not afraid to fight and has his pride. Glad it was implied that Lucifer is at least on the same level of power as Alastor, and wasn't a little pussy Black personhomosexual.
It seems to me Lucifer doesnt want to hurt the sinners and mostly views them as lab rats in a failed experiment more than anything. The whole rivalry with Alastor was more about getting Charlie's attention than him viewing Alastor as a threat himself.
Yeah it wasn't bad for Lucifer. It almost felt like Al knew he couldn't beat Luficer with power so went for emotional damage with Charlie. Lucifer feels powerful but just lost all hope or desire other than his daughter. Which is fine.
I think it's pretty obvious that Lucifer could just delete Alastor if he wanted, with the lyrics of the song being kinda explicit about it - "angelic power"
It's impressive for an overlord of hell to kill a basic b***h angel grunt, so im not sure why would Alastor be able to go toe to toe with one of the angels from the top of the hierarchy
I liked 6 a lot.
>lucifer is voiced by a man who hasn't been in anything good and sounds like a fratbro
why
Lute (and Adam)'s hijacking of Emily and Charlie's song was the best part of episode 6. I just love those two.
That's where the song picked up for me. Lute has a great voice and she sounded great with Adam.
These two had great potential as recurring antagonists goofing around.
Episode 6 was really solid, and that song picking up all the motiffs from other songs was pure musical kino.
I'm now sad that this is only 8 episodes and that it could get a much better pacing if they were doing something like a 12 season episode.
Sir Pentious deserves better.
don't worry
he's on limbo
Why ducks?
See
But i think it's for the best that everytime Lucifer appears, he got a new obssesion pushing his Idea of being creative
-working- my way through ep 5
why is lucifer basically a worse blitzo?
Same reason Valentino is a better Sin of Lust than Ozzie.
hate to agree with you
>why is lucifer basically a worse blitzo?
These two characters are nothing alike.
he's all the dad parts of blitz but with more cringe
>Literally your only connection between the two is that both are paternal figures
>cringe
Some 8 year-old Taiwanese kid spent hours slaving over a circuit board so you could post this moronation.
Shame on you.
Want me to give you karma or something?
Yeah, Blitzo at least tries to be in Loona’s life, Lucifer has done jack shit.
They will ship the most incompatible characters ever and twist everything to "prove" they feel something of the other.
poor saint peter must be rolling in his grave
He doesn’t know this shit even exist and Christ is up there with him. Although, it will be hilarious if someone somehow sends this pic to him.
His soul is still stuck in his corpse? How unfortunate.
>Turns a middle eastern brown man into a blonde pale angel
Somebody should clue Viv into the fact that this is the definition of whitewashing.
ngl the more i think about this design the more i find it funny. it feels like a direct response to the "she's just makes everyone a skinny white twink" complaint.
If St. Peter is at the gate of heaven, doesn't that mean that God exists in the show? He was hand picked by Jesus to be the first pope, which wouldn't carry much weight in heaven if Jesus was just some guy who thought he was god. There's clearly evidence of a higher power above the angels, but the show will never mention it for some reason.
they're just trying to build up to it
you're implying this is a 1:1 interpretation of Catholic / Protestant / Orthodox Christianity's version of things. This "Saint Peter" could just be some righteous "Winner" called Peter that the Angles chose as Gatekeeper of Heaven.
>for some reason
You mean besides alienating a lot of potential viewers when it doesn't match up with their own beliefs or lack thereof, or is treated too seriously or not seriously enough? People b***h for fun about angel and demon costumes and sets, but they'll actually turn off if you start talking about God in the wrong way.
Is no one going to talk about how Freddy Fazbear is hanging out in heaven on the right?
Glad to see Henry made it to heaven.
Would be funnier if it was the soul of the child that inhabits Freddy. Imagine you’re stuck for eternity to have the shape of the thing your murdered corpse was stuffed into.
Cute
5 was boring. 6 was good and both songs were bangers.
>songs sung by people who can't sing
frick me
lucifers ending song reminds me of anything in the greatest showman but so so much fricking worse
do you think Alastor is pissed off by Lucifer because he was hanging out with Lillith, and Lillith was talking shit about Lucifer, which influenced Alastor's opinion on him? and then she used her slave power over Alastor to go babysit Charlie, when if Lillith really wanted Charlie to have a babysitter, her dad should've been the one doing the parenting? So Alastor is stuck at the hotel because Lucifer was absent, so he's mad at having to do this babysitting job in Lucifer's place.
lucifer was way more pathetic than i expected him to be
Must suck to be a Lucifer cuck today. What a goddamn washed up loser in Hell. Adam is definitely on the chopping block to join him in Hell so two losers enjoy each other's misery.
Where furry coombait?
The strange spambot is back it seems. What is even the point? Is it just someone that got upset about something or are they some sort of captcha tester thing or some shit?
Funniest part? It's not a bot, he's doing it manually
That's even sadder.
Do you think they'd let you jerk off in the hotel or is that bad for your redemption?
Was masturbation as an action itself a sin or the act of spilling a seed without it having any chance at all of impregnating a woman the problem?
It was referred to as 'spilling seed' and it was implied that doing it often is a waste, but accidental omission is usually not an issue
It likely was simply phrased that way, but it has more to do with masturbation as a habit, and with the consumption of pornography, rather than just the act of jizzing
Guess we'll just have to resort to Angel sucking us off.
Neither. The particular story that lead to the "no spilling seed" rule was Onan and the actual moral of that story was about levirate marriage and how Onan needed to cum inside his dead brother's wife to create an heir in his place.
Remember anons, when a mass quoting homosexual is spamming, Cinemaphile X is you friend
It lets you
1. un-(You) your own posts
2. hide "this post and replies" since perigay and most other Sharty mass-quoters reply to EVERYONE itt including themselves, this will effectively filter out every future post of theirs too
Overall, I’d say the show is at least better than Helluva Boss
Vaggie's backstory fricked something up for Hell, that being new arrival sinners. Since she was tasked to kill sinners and one of them was a low power level nobody, it means anyone and everyone who arrives in Hell just shows up there. Thought there'd be different circles of Hell with the less nasty sinners going to a safer place of Hell.
Bit a problem you see because we aren't seeing new Hell arrivals every hour or so, we don't know how anyone could even become an Overlord since from the moment they arrive they're fresh meat.
Most shows introduce their cast within the first three episodes. I feel like we keep getting important character after important character introduced and I know there is not enough time to actually give them anything beyond the one episode they appear in.
It seems that Hazbin was very successful, who woulda thunk?
https://twitter.com/HazbinHotel/status/1750941754746913009
Prime has pushed some good series. Others not so much I suppose, Rings of Power...
Hopefully someone with influence is actually trying to fix that a bit, maybe give season 2 more episodes to work with.
Season 2 has already been fully written and is being recorded. Everything is set in stone for season 2 most likely, so if it still has 8 episodes I doubt it's gonna change at this stage.
neat, good for them. i completely get why a lot of people might not like this show, but i'd rather have stuff like this than a lot of the slop we get these days. HH is, at the very least, high-effort, original, and the creators are obviously passionate about it.
Noice. Deserved, Hazbin is so much better than the slop we get nowadays.
Honestly I wasn't a doomer on it's chances like a lot of Cinemaphile was but it's surpassed my expectations of how well it would do.
Grats to it's team.
This is A24s first animated series right?
If so they must be over the fricking moon right now lol.
Yes it's their only animated series at the moment and they funded season 1 and have the rights for it. And based on what Viv said in interviews recently Amazon Prime are funding season 2 if I understood correctly.
Wouldn't be surprised if it's a joint fund.
If that's the case tho then I actually wouldn't be surprised if S2 gets more or longer episodes cause Amazon simply has more money to throw around.
They got damn lucky with Amazon tbh, they went out of their way to promote the show pretty hard and renewed it before it started. Now their probably well on their way to getting a third season greenlight.
In the interviews I found Viv said that A24 fully funded s1, then when it came to finding where to stream it Amazon was instantly interested in picking it up and they greenlit season 2.
Who knows what the funding is, but a joint fund seems realistic.
Based on other research I've done Amazon is currently interested in expanding their 16+ aged animation slate and they prefer things with existing fanbases so Hazbin was the perfect fit, I'm glad things worked out.
Longer episodes or more epiosdes would be such a blessing for sure.
Do you think they'll slow the frick down for season 3/4?
It depends what Viv wants to do with the story. Probably. Or we could get slightly longer episodes/more episodes per season.
I fully expect them to blow all their best material early, and for later seasons to devolve into boring gay slice of life drama.
No cuz VivziePop has ADHD and is moronic
Awesome!
Helluva Boss is a better show unironically. Viv dropped the ball hard on her dream project. It's also very obvious that Alistor is her personal Merry Sue donut Steel that she more than likely shlicks off too in private.
>adam swears in angel court
>nobody bats an eye
>charlie swears in angel court
>everyone quirks their eye
It's almost as if that episode is pointing out some kind of double standard between the judgement of angels and demons or something
>Lucifer, Adam, and Lilith are as old as the age of the planet Earth
>Lucifer gets instantly mad about Alastor, a soul from the 1930s and gets surprised when he spooks him
Jesus what a fricking cuck. Should've added Velvet in the scene to disrespect this has been fallen Angel frick.
Not enough trad biblical imagery for little dark age edits
>drinking alcohol in dozens is okay, ignore that.
>drug abuse is bad, unredeemable.
Let's not talk what Jesus turned water into
Why? it was prune juice.
Nah, that's not what you should be focused on. What you should focus on is the wedding he did it at, which was basically a Hebrew tradition where everyone at a wedding would go out of their way to get as shitfaced as possible, often over the course of a 3 day bender.
Or the fact that wine in Jesus's era was commonly laced with primitive psychedelics.
snakeman trying to frick Angles bff and screaming as he gets fricked by two dudes against his will doesn't seem very "gay' to me.
Lucifer unironically lives in a cuck shed in Hell and is respected by nobody. All the angel DNA in him and his only kid has no angelic features, he wasted his sperm. Funniest shit that's been written.
>no gays in heaven
>rapists, pedophiles, and mass murderers don't go to hell
>seven rings of hell are themed after the colors of the rainbow
>turns saint peter (a middle eastern israelite) into a guy with blond hair and blue eyes
what the FRICK did vivzie mean by this
>>no gays in heaven
Vaggie's existence kinda kills this narrative
What's more, homo*phobia* exists in Heaven (and the show's position is obviously that that's bad). And yeah, I think this is indicating homophobia; Lute clearly despites their relationship in a way that Adam notably does not ("Hot as frick, though") despite him being the avatar of frat-bro dickishness otherwise.
Is she being homophobic? Or is she just disgusted because she's sleeping with a demon?
I think Adam calling it hot was supposed to suggest that Lute was hung up on the gayness, but it could also serve as a joke that as a dudebro type Adam missed that the problem was an angel canoodling with a demon princess and not their genders.
Remember the politics of the creators of the show. From their point of view, a dude-bro like Adam characteristically fetishize lesbians and absolutely would refer to it as "hot as frick".
You could read it as her hating gay people, but it's equally likely the idea of a demon and angel being in love revolts her. Or it may be both. Probably both.
It could be both, but it's notable that Adam does not care about either of those things in the slightest - Lute's reaction is specific to her, which strongly suggests personal bias.
Watch it turn out Lute meant the interracial part not the lesbian part.
Why is he a manlet?
Episode 5 fell flat completely. Episode 6 was slightly better with some lore elements, but the overall issue is still the pacing. The pacing is so bad in HH that it’s ruining any good aspects of the show. I get Viv didn’t know she was gonna get a second season, but she still didn’t have to shove as much shit in as she did. Viv is of the mindset that style>>>
Why doesn't Lucifer immediately notice that Vaggie is part of his kind? His angel detection sensors were left back in his cuck shed?
>Charlie ... your partner is a ...
>I can't believe it ...
>She's a ... girl?!
Vaggie was way after Lucifer's time in heaven and the other angels didnt notice her either. Adam only did because she was one of his top soldiers of a secret force for presumably a long time
Good point, thank you.
Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss traded good concepts and story for ships.
>Charlie and Vaggie, boring as hell.
>Angel and Husk, no fricking sense, maybe they think hyper sexualized flamboyant and grumpy old man is funny?
>Sir Pentious and Cherry Bomb, arch-nemesis, but suddenly, in 3 hours, Sir Pentious wants to frick her.
>Stolas and Blitz, they nerfed Stolas making him useless without the book so they can hang with Blitz and company.
Ooooh, and the daddy issues. EVERYONE HAS DADDY ISSUES!!. Charlie, Stolas, Angel Dust, Blitz, Moxxie!! Vaggie has daddy issues because her dad is God? Alastor is specially assholy with other male characters because he has daddy issues?
Helluva Boss is way worse at it though. Everything good about S1 went down the drain in S2. The amount of retconning done from making Blitzo to be this innocent little angel who did nothing wrong and everything wasn’t his fault, to making Stolas a depressed gay dad who only cares about Blitzo for his body, to the most egregious of all making Blitzo and Stolas somehow childhood friends.
Oh and killing off Chaz too, because he actually would have fit in great with the cast in the long run. But because Adam Neylan is a moron, that’ll never happen
The issue with this show is that it rushes along and doesnt stop to explore/expand on its ideas and worldbuilding. There is almost no buildup to anything and all important moments are conveyed through song to mask how shallow and unearned they are.
>If hell is forever, heaven must be a lie
What the frick does that even mean?
Don't you get it, Anon? If not, let me sing it for you.
IF THIS SHOW SUCKS ASS THEN CARTOONS MUST BE A LIE
The joy of Heaven isn't worth having if it requires the suffering of others
A good philosophical point buried underneath a mountain of terrible writing
>The joy of Heaven isn't worth having if it requires the suffering of others
Jesus of Nazareth literally destroyed this dumb philosophy by himself. Hahahaha.
It failed since the beginning.
I do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a sadist.
How did Jesus Christ pay for the sins, Anon?
Are you trying to assert that Christian theology teaches Jesus's atonement was accomplished by him inflicting pain on other people?
He's very clearly attacking the claim
>The joy of Heaven isn't worth having if it requires the suffering of others
by pointing out that Christian theology makes it very clear that the joy of heaven strictly mandates the suffering of Christ.
I think the clear difference there is that Christ volunteered, whereas the damned do not.
If the damned suffering doesn’t count, nor would Christ’s.
No, you twit. He's talking about how Jesus shed his blood on the Cross specifically so we DON'T have to have children burning in hell for eternity. He took all that pain onto himself as the sacrificial lamb so God won't be pissed off at us for Original Sin anymore
that argument is only valid if you believe in christianity, that doesn't seem to be real in the show
even that philosophical point sounds like corporal punishment moronation that schools and brainwashing military complexes do.
>Oh you were a chill dude your entire life and dealt with horrible homosexuals and conditions your entire existence
>kay but it wouldn't be fair to Jimmy the axe murder rapist because we're all equal and consequences don't mean anything so enjoy having him and the other millions of self absorbed psychotics as your neighbors in the afterlife for eternity.
>kay but it wouldn't be fair to Jimmy the axe murder rapist because we're all equal and consequences don't mean anything so enjoy having him and the other millions of self absorbed psychotics as your neighbors in the afterlife for eternity.
The idea becomes more thorny when "Jimmy the axe murder rapist" or one of those faceless "self absorbed psychotics" is your child, or your sibling, or your parent.
Blood doesn't change actions and consequences if I have family members or individuals i care/cared about commit a lopsided amount of selfish things in direct consequence of others they shouldn't be allowed to continue to be a nuisance to more people what a stupid point. as an aside I don't believe in the whole burning in hell forever crap if anything a model of the afterlife should take a page from the greeks on layers be attributed to your overall balance sheet of being a dickhead/goodwill/chadthunderwiener diagram.
I assume it means that for sinners heaven is a lie because it is unattainable. But that only works if you conceptualize heaven and hell and places in the world. Sure, salvation is meaningless if you cant get it, but the point is that the chances at getting it should stop at some point. Otherwise, what prevents angels from being damned themselves by becoming awful in heaven? If heaven is not forever then heaven is also a lie.
It's the conundrum of making your afterlife just be Life Part 2: Electric Boogaloo to begin with. You don't achieve some grand enlightenment about your place in the universe, you just pick up where you left off in life and....exist, I guess? Like, what does one actually DO in heaven on a day to day basis? Are there things to entertain you? If so, why does one need entertainment in literal paradise where one wants for nothing all the time?
This is why I prefer the Buddhists. They at least are up front about the whole "it's a never ending grind you'll do over and over" thing.
I hate Viv's vision of heaven because there are businesses and cafes and shit which means someone up there is a heaven starbucks barista who has to pour me my gold flake titty milk latte. Why beg that kind of question? Idk maybe they have a similar hierarchy to hell and the cherubs do all the menial shit.
do not fall to the temptations of byakauren hijiri brother
Anyways why do people think Lute is hot? she literally looks 50-ish years old
First thing I thought was goth girl
Masked Lute is the ONLY one that exists for me
it seems to me just a metaphor on people who think they're "too far gone" to get help, like Angel Dust who thinks he sold his soul so there's no more chance for him. Oh you're already dead? Sorry buddy no more chance for redemption, it's over, just accept it forever and don't try to fix yourself cause no more chance.
Or I'm giving it too much thought and credit.
>This is why I prefer the Buddhists. They at least are up front about the whole "it's a never ending grind you'll do over and over" thing.
I'm decently sure that's not what Buddhism is about. The reincorporation cycle is more of a punishment than the end goal, the actual end goal is reaching Nirvana, at which point you achieve some sort of enlightenment/non-existence (not sure which) and stop cycling through reincarnations.
>The reincorporation cycle is more of a punishment than the end goal
No, Sandara is not a punishment it is just the natural way of existence
the poit of buddhism is that the cycle is ultimately unsatisfactory and that there is a way out of if for those that are fed up
while enlightenment is the end point for monks and those aiming for nirvana, most lay people just follow the precepts to get better karma for the current and next lives and to get rebirth in the nicer worlds
Anon, you had to take easier exams on school didn't you?
You missed the next part
>if hell is forever than Heaven must be a lie, If Angels can do whatever but remain in the sky
They are saying that "hell being forever" makes no sense if a denizen of Heaven can sin constantly(like Adam does), and not be punished for it. By the rules that Heaven itself has established in this, Adam should have gotten tossed out.
Adam getting kicked out and sent to hell would be a pretty funny end for him, especially if he turned up again claiming Hell is fricking awesome and how wrong he was.
I was thinking about something like that too. Exterminators apparently love violence. Well in hell you can kill each other every day without really dying, just like Valhalla! Them being sent to hell and going native would be funny
I thought if you died in hell you died for good, even if it was by another sinners hand.
in hell apparently the only way you can die permanently is by an angel
>but why do we see Alastor Sue killing demons in his backstory and episode 5???
Shut up.
Maybe it's purely a rank thing? Like you can't kill a sinner as a sinner, only if you're an overlord or higher.
I'd be willing to believe that they don't *die*, but an Overlord who overthrows another keeps them torn up / locked up and then throws them to the Exorcists when the year is up.
The simplest assumption is the death strips a lot of their power away. So even without further intervention they'd be quite vulnerable to extermination, and just the general violence of hell.
It’s only when it’s done by angelic weaponry. Sinners are immortal and will heal and pull themselves back together if killed by normal means and weapons.
>>but why do we see Alastor Sue killing demons in his backstory and episode 5???
>Shut up.
Who said he killed them? Mimzie said that their voices are still heard in the background. There are fates worse than death, you know
Working for his radio station?
>Adam meets a demon who makes him realize he's bisexual
>The demon is named Steve
Adam and Lute ending up in hell and having to stay at the hotel would be hilarious. They are such an unusual and interesting pair and their interactions with the rest of the cast would be incredibly funny
And Sera is responsible for the genocide of more people than every historical figure on Earth combined. Her logic is even the same as someone like Hitler. She was only doing it because it was necessary to protect the volk, she didn't want to but there was no other way! Then she covered it up because she knew it was bad.
She needs to be cast down to hell for a few thousand years to think about what's she done
>a character with a black voice actress defends a system than runs on "if we're too easy on them, they'll rise up and oppress us like we did to them" logic
Vivienne.
I think that the big reveal of ep 6 was that
>nobody knows how someone gets into heaven, but the system can't be questioned
>once someone is in they can do anything they want except aforementioned questioning of the system
I wouldn't be surprised if everyone is so happy and bright in heaven because they think, "of course, we're in heaven, we're happy all the time!" and the same goes for hell.
There's a lack of God in this series so the fact that none of the angels go to Him to get His view on what Adam is doing is a huge plot hole that can only be explained as God not existing in this series setting, only the angels.
>a huge plot hole that can only be explained as God not existing in this series setting, only the angels
>God exists in this series setting but has no more communication with angels than he does with humans
I fixed your huge plot hole and I didn't even need to change anything about the show.
It could even be a LOTR-esque situation where God didn't create the universe; instead he created the Angels to make the universe themselves (though the Valar were aware of Eru where the Angels are not aware of YHWH).
But then you have to explain why he doesn't communicate with his angels more as he does actually do a ton of it in the actual bible or why the angels are unable to speak with him. And why is this not enough of an issue to bother him about as he is the one that created the entire morality system.
because he wants his angels to have free will too
Doesn't that go against the show's premise of making Lucifer the good guy with good intentions who rebelled against God to give humanity free will because God wouldn't allow it? The show's premise works better as there being no God at all in this series setting.
Thought about this too. My idea - though it's a bit weird characterizing God in this way - is that God's closed off in his sanctum, because he's scared. Of what? Well, God is normally omnipotent - past, present, future he can all see. But when this redemption plan came to fruition... he couldn't see how it'd end up (or maybe something else relating to the whole Lilith/Eve/Roo shit, IDK). And for the creator who should know everything, that's terrifying, a feeling they should never have to experience unless self-inflicted. So, they're shut away in their sanctum trying to figure out what exactly is preventing them from seeing the outcome, and how this whole redemption plan plays into it.
You could even tie it in with the early extermination - moving it up some could be an attempt to "course correct" the flow of fate and get things back to how it should be. Of course, this doesn't help.
Because the angel characters aren't based on the bible, they're caricatures of human beings with harps and feather wings, and human beings don't have a line of communication with God so it wouldn't make sense to give them one in the story.
>But then you have to explain why he doesn't communicate with his angels
why would god communicate with the angels at all ? and why do you think the bible is 100% true canon in the hellaverse ?
Because he actually normally does. He created them but doesn't want to speak with them? They exist in his realm, unlike humans.
>Because he actually normally does
the show is pretty clear that he doesn't
>He created them but doesn't want to speak with them?
who said he create them ? and even if he did, why would he want to speak with them ?
>They exist in his realm, unlike humans.
who said that they exist in the same realm as God and who said that the angels are in a separate realm from humans and not just another planet in the same universe ?
How does time of day work in Hell?
Where do new arrival souls go to in Hell? Consider if becoming an Overlord means getting souls under contract, wouldn't Overlords be spawn camping new sinner souls every time it happens?
Why do none of the Overlords talk about Lucifer? There could've been a power dynamic of Lucifer shielding the Overlords from Angel Exterminations in exchange for their obedience. It would explain why Hell isn't a total wild west all the time.
Why is Lucifer such a fricking cuck?
Why is Adam LE BAD guy for saying confirmed 100% dead sinners can't go to Heaven? They boxed themselves into this corner when writing him.
The fact Angels don't know what Adam does with his Right Wing Death Squad is a reach
Vox and Velvet are good and don't deserve to be in Hell.
Hope Alastor dies.
There's a lot of criticisms to make about this show yet none of yours are interesting or valid.
Adam is LE BAD not because 100% dead sinners can't go to heaven.
He's bad because he sees the fact that they DO NOT go to heaven and thus assumes that they CANNOT and SHOULD NOT go to Heaven, but it is *proven* in the show that he has no hard evidence to base that on.
Yeah just caught up with the point you were making. I get adam's circular logic flawed argument, hard to grasp with the pacing being so fast. Thanks.
>the fact that they DO NOT go to heaven and thus assumes that they CANNOT and SHOULD NOT go to Heaven
Why do they get sent to hell in the first place? Not a single individual before now has been able to get to heaven from hell up to this point. How is any of hell's citizens going to get to heaven unless it's based on each angel's personal bias that they be allowed to or not? Charlie was the only one making the effort, not any of the angels up in heaven. This makes them look incredibly dumb.
>Why do they get sent to hell in the first place?
Wow good question I wonder if the show will treat that question as an incredibly central plot point in Episode 6 in particular or maybe the whole show wow
no you all wrong, Adam is bad literally just because he is a man, even worse, the first man
Adam is a moron and his arguments should not be taken seriously. What is strange is that there is nobody in heaven, the supposed home of virtuous super geniuses, who have better arguments than him.
Why is there a child in hell?
He knows what he did.
Cause vivzie is desperate to make Adam look bad.
They explicitly do not know what the criteria are. Everyone in Heaven assumes "uh I guess it's because we were virtuous" but they don't actually *know* what causes it.
Which is moronic and only there to skirt the valid double argument that 1. Sinners are in hell because they are awful and 2. Sinners are the entire reason why hell is hell, them being awful is what makes hell awful.
Its very cringe Viv is framing this in terms of my people versus your people.
Did....did you miss the entire point of the series is to call unfounded self-righteous thinking like that on it's horse shit? If no one actually knows where the distinct line between heaven and hell lies, makes you wonder why there's a heaven and hell to begin with
>If no one actually knows where the distinct line between heaven and hell lies
And that is moronic because the line seems to be pretty clear. If you are a piece of shit then you end up in hell. That has been established in the show, but then the show, in order to try to make Charlie seem correct, goes on to imply that angels dont know what makes somebody good. Thats moronic and goes against what the show established in the first place.
Angels know what it takes for somebody to be in haven, the point rather, is whether that placement is final or not. The philosophical point the show wants to make is whether redemption is always possible, not that we dont know what good and evil are. But then this point gets subverted because the trial scene was so incerdibly shallow and unsubtle they had to make Charlie seem correct at all points.
It's not an unrealistic argument to say that someone who was only mildly "bad" per say (jerk offs, swears, has selfish thoughts, drinks, has maybe stolen once or twice but felt bad afterwards, ect) got sent to hell and spiraled since there's nothing but bad encouragement down there. When in rome after all, what's being "good" going to get you in hell?
That is a good point, but unless we get more information I seriously doubt doing those things, by themselves, is enough to damn somebody. Also, something that the show has kinda touched on is that there are layers to hell, some presumably worse than the others. Also also, nothing stops the moderate sinners from making a society themselves down there.
Nah, see, that's the core point you're missing. Adam excuses his actions by saying anyone in hell is a sinner and thus deserves it. But there is no actual evidence that that's true. Certainly the worst people are in Hell and the best in Heaven, but where is the line drawn? What about people who are mostly good? Because the fact of the matter is a child ended up in Hell.
Adam would have you believe that that proves the child was evil, else they wouldn't be in Hell, but that's entirely circular logic. That's the point.
>Adam, why do you trust your God?
The show has not mentioned the existence of a deity; the opening exposition describes the creation of mankind and the world as the doing of the angels themselves. There obviously *is* some cosmic force setting rules that the angels do not control (nor fully understand), but they would simply have deferred to God's authority if they knew him to exist in that way.
Adam would not exist without a deity to reflect. Removing God is bad lore.
The Bible is the school exam for life and it clearly states that Hell is forever and so is Heaven.
>Removing God is bad lore.
Not mentioning God is good business sense.
I dont care what Adam says. There are two different points here 1. whether everybody in hell deserves to be in hell and 2. Whether angels using the damned for entertainment is justified because they are in hell and so dont matter. The show makes it seem like 1. is correct, everybody in hell is a piece of shit. But there is a child there for some reason. That has not been explained yet but if I were to guess the child is only there to make Vaggie even more sympathetic and Adam/Lute even more black and white buttholes.
2. is uncertain. I would say no, it does not justify massacring them. Especially since the Angels are doing so for petty/evil reasons.
But none of these points touch my original point that hell is awful precisely because the sinners make it awful. They are not chained up being tortured or anything, they are free to do whatever they want. And they choose to make everything bad, hence leading even more credence that they deserve to be in there, because they made it that.
That's the thing, though. The biggest pieces of shit go to Hell, that's not in question. But what if you're only a tiny bit shitty? All the child rapists are in Hell, but not all those in Hell are child rapists. Meanwhile, Adam *behaves* exactly like someone you'd expect to find in Hell, but he went to Heaven. And the show's core plot element on the matter is that they don't know where the dividing line *is*.
At this point, you whining about it just comes across as being mad it doesn't reflect your real-life religious beliefs.
>they don't know where the dividing line *is*.
Right, and this is precisely the dumb part. How do they not know? Do they really have no better argument than the one the explicit and known idiot is making?
>How do they not know?
Souls just appear either in heaven or hell after their death. They don't know how they're judged, they just take it on faith that it is as it should be and that their moral standards are correct. Do you get it?
Thats dumb and only there so Charlie can seem to have more of a point when she has a point already.
It's there because that's how religion works in real life, you chowderhead.
Its not though, all religions have libraries upon libraries on works on the matter.
The prohibition against homosexuality is the most obviously relevant example. You can write as many essays dissecting Leviticus as you like, but whether the book and its prohibitions are valid is ultimately based purely on revealed knowledge, a.k.a. blind faith. Someone who doesn't know the secrets of the universe any more than anyone else does will dictate on that basis that homosexuality is immoral. Same deal with the angels upholding their own codes despite not knowing why people get into heaven.
The prohibition of homosexuality, whether you agree with it or not, does not solely depend on blind faith but has naturalistic arguments behind it such as the functionality of human sexual reproduction and its goals. Like I said, you do not have to agree with the arguments, but the arguments do not come strictly from faith. In fact, many secular societies have had and still have restrictions on homosexuality, classic examples are the soviet union and current china.
The Christian prohibition against homosexuality, as in the example of Leviticus, is not based on naturalistic arguments. Don't wander off topic.
I am simply telling you that its perfectly possible to have an argument against homosexuality without reference to faith. Which supports the notion that we can have naturalistic ethical explanations, which supports the notion that we do actually know what lands you in hell. And all of that without needing blind faith.
>we can have naturalistic ethical explanations, which supports the notion that we do actually know what lands you in hell.
No it doesn't. You can't get from naturalistic ethical reasoning to the support for the notion that there is a hell. The existence of an afterlife is not an ethical proposition. Likewise, the existence of apologetics doesn't mean that the religion's claims are not based on faith.
Never mind that any such "naturalistic" argument would require evidence that the existence of homosexuality actually has negative outcomes. People have been gay for all of human existence and at no point has the population not grown normally because some people were gay. And even if there was a population growth problem, gay people can still have kids, so the solution wouldn't need to include stopping people from being gay.
>negative outcomes
Like the aids epidemic or shit like gay pride parades where they dance naked in the streets?
>naturalistic arguments
>"aids is the gay disease"
>gay pride parades
anon pls your christian nationalism is showing too quickly, gotta keep it under wraps longer than that buddy
Yes, never mind it, since it's an obvious off-road into whinging about the gays.
True, he just tried to pivot from "naturalistic arguments" into "I hate pride parades" lol
You do realize there can be numerous anons responding to you right?
Cinemaphile is one guy, anon. Where have you been?
I have been here, with all my other split personalities
>You can't get from naturalistic ethical reasoning to the support for the notion that there is a hell
Yes you can, your naturalistic reasoning can ground the criteria of what constitutes good and evil, which itself grounds the criteria of who gets into heaven or hell. This is what is called a layered ethical argument and, agree with them or not, they have been given by pretty much all theologians. Nobody except hard core protestant denominations in christianity want to ground their ethics in "just cos" arguments.
Again, you can think all of this is bullshit. But there are very persuasive arguments given in this vein.
>Yes you can, your naturalistic reasoning can ground the criteria of what constitutes good and evil, which itself grounds the criteria of who gets into heaven or hell.
Which does not support the notion that there is a heaven or hell. The existence of an afterlife is not an ethical proposition.
Right, but when I give a criteria for a distinction, I am not commited to the actualization of the distinction. I can say 'If heaven exists then you would go there based on my established criteria'. I am not commited to the existence of heaven, I am simply making a conditional claim with heaven as a possible application of my established criteria. The criteria itself doesnt necessitate heaven for its existence, heaven is simply a possible application of the criteria.
In other words, you have nothing relevant to say.
Its ok to say you didnt understand what I said anon. I can explain it in simpler terms if you want.
You cannot ethically reason your way to the existence of a judge of dead souls or what criteria that judge assigns, because those aren't ethical claims, they're physical claims. To say that such a judge exists and shares your ethical reasoning is assuming facts not in evidence, i.e. you take it on faith. So you cannot through ethical reasoning "know what lands you in hell". I've said this three times now and you're still having trouble with it.
>criteria that judge assigns, because those aren't ethical claims
The criteria are ethical claims dumbass. You are not claiming anything physical or even the instantiation of those rules in reality. You can claim that its wrong to kill children even if no children presently exist. Furthermore, the criteria a judge uses and the existence of the judge himself are entirely different matters, entirely different claims. I say that the criteria exists but the judge doesnt need to exist for the criteria to hold. That is not faith in the slightest.
You can absolutely, through ethical reasoning know what lands people in hell. In fact, they have a pretty good approximation in the show given the kinds of people that end in hell in the first place.
>You are not claiming the instantiation of those rules in reality.
>You can absolutely, through ethical reasoning know what lands people in hell.
Are you ESL or just dumb? You cannot know what lands people in hell if you cannot know whether there is a hell or by what criteria (ethical, unethical, random chance) people are sent there. Let me rephrase that to make sure you fully grasp the tautology: you cannot know why people go to hell if you don't know why people go to hell.
You absolutely can and I already told you how. Its not my fault you cant read.
>you cannot know why people go to hell if you don't know why people go to hell.
>You absolutely can and I already told you how.
Great. Good talk.
>acting as if your dumbass formulation holds any weight
Until you're able to answer it it'll have to stand.
>but has naturalistic arguments
it doesn't given that homosexuality also happen in other species and that sex has more functions than just reproduction in humans
>many secular societies have had and still have restrictions on homosexuality, classic examples are the soviet union and current china.
those are just carry overs of previous religious opinion held by of the russian and chinese societies
it's comes for faith first and them people try to rationalize it after the fact to avoid the implications of part of their religious laws being wrong
>it doesn't given that homosexuality also happen in other species and that sex has more functions than just reproduction in humans
I didnt say the arguments were correct, just that they exist.
>those are just carry overs of previous religious opinion held by of the russian and chinese societies
it's comes for faith first and them people try to rationalize it after the fact to avoid the implications of part of their religious laws being wrong
They are not. Those are grounded on the secular collectivistic conception of the state as the ultimate purpose of humanity. And so the common good substitutes individual goods. Your value becomes determined by how much you can contribute to the state. And a big contribution are children, more state subjects. So homosexuality is viewed as immoral because it does not contribute to the expansion of the state.
It does not come from faith. In fact, this was also the "scientific" rationale given by the nazis to persecute homosexuality. And the nazis were very much known for their anticlericanism and secularistic practices.
You can suspect the ultimate cause is leftover religion. But the arguments themselves, agree with them or not, have nothing to do with religion themselves.
Giving the strong Catholic and Orthodox traditions in Germany and Russia respectively they're bad examples to use if you're trying to separate those states from their religious influences. The religious beliefs of high-ranking psychopaths is not the major contributor.
Yeah, I can also name a few things that happen in other species. I guess that's why everyone in heaven and hell has a furry design.
Adam either went to heaven specifically because he was the first human or he squeased in on a technicality and people "respect" him purely because of seniority. Like that one co-worker who's been there forever but isn't actually better than anyone else.
The problem is this is an interesting concept yet it only feels like we both start to and stop exploring it in the span of the last few scenes of episode 6.
>Heaven themselves demonstrate a failure to properly draw the line on who is deserving of Heaven.
>GOTTA MOVE ON WE HAVE A FINAL BATTLE TO GET TO.
Honestly? At that point I'd have made the finale more court proceedings to let them go in to depth on the theme by having Charlie basically sue Heaven for a lack of proper legal standard
it's not even "only a tiny bit shitty" they literally don't know what send one to heaven or hell, for all that we know you could be a complete piece of shit butthole and still get in heaven by a technicality while someone that never really did anything really bad could also end up in hell on a technicality
that's the whole point, the criteria is not known and people are just making assumptions without any hard proof
He looks like one of the cannibal sinners. Probably some sick little frick.
Yeah that was a huge mistake. It clashes with the setting completely
Could just be a turbo manlet like how nifty is a ultra petite as their demonic form, it probably was more of an accumulated breaking point of seeing something crying and cowering and she;s probably killed thousands in the same position before that, or viv is a fricking moron.
Same reason unbaptized babies wind up in Limbo despite having literally zero chances to actually sin: no one thought of this shit until someone asked after the fact.
Why wouldn't there be?
He is one of the cannibal hellborn demons of Pride. I think they are called Dolls/Dollies/ or something like that.
child psychopath
It's funny they think physical appearance matters in hell when they're so warped to begin with. A fully grown dude could take the form of a child in hell because he was into children for all it matters.
>Vaggie is supposed to be one of the best at killing
>doesn't kill some random kid
???
Is she stupid?
Common trope, the most elite person sees they're going nuts and has regrets.
my guilty pleasure trope
Yeah I know, and i hate that trope.
>do X amount of brutal killings and succesful missions over many years
>suddenly, this ONE person you came across COMPLETELY changes your personality, and you do 180 spin on your entire worldview
I hate this. The dumb vox machina show also did that, and it was ever dumber than here.
Verification not required.
Lucifer and Alastor's interaction actually got a big chuckle out of me.
Those episodes show that Viv should have cut off A LOT from this. Like maybe focus on ONE story that can have a beginning, middle and end. Like maybe the plot of first season being redemption of Angel Dust. Then you have a goal which is attainable and doesn't raise the stakes too high and you can explore it to it's fullest. You can explore Angel's character and his road to redemption and make it NOT just about being nice, it could be about recognition of your own sins, of trying to correct them and earning forgiveness from those you hurt and your own self, where you do want to atone for what you were and because of that you go on the path to redemption. You can then also expand on character interactions as this goal is nearing completion. And expand on necessary characters for this plot without throwing 10 new ones every episode. Everything being tied to ONE goal and there being actual FOCUS. Then it could end on Angel's redemption and even if you get only ONE season then you have a hopeful note to end on where you see that redemption IS possible and what it means to redeem a sinner.
But no. Viv could not do it because she wants to show all of the ideas that she has. She wants to shove in all of those concepts, characters, ideas. Everything feels like an ending to first draft of an idea Viv had and she cannot for the life of her let go of those ideas. It seems like she is obsessed with showing everything she wants to do without much care for story structure and that's a problem. She needs someone on that team capable of telling her "NO!" to stir her in the right direction so she can become a better writer, but she seems utterly incapable of even recognizing that she needs help.
On the road to improvement the first and hardest step is to recognize you need to move at all. And Viv seems incapable of taking it.
Yeah, she really needs a tard wrangler.
it was the only kinda kino episode
My takes on episode 5 and 6…
Five
-The dad character is all over the place in terms of their personality, I can’t get a solid read on them why they act how they act, are they hiding something?
-I was expecting some large, powerful looking father figure. Instead I get a neurotic looking guy who looks the same age as his daughter and is also shorter than her. Fail on the character design, and again with the spiky teeth.
-The tension between Alastor and the dad is so forced, I never once felt any vibe that Alastor was a father figure.
-As usual, the songs felt so shoehorned it. I feel like they actually distract from the plot. Not every fricking thing needs to be sung.
-It took the dad an hour to get there, but he just leaves in a puff of smoke?
-Alastor’s mouth is always stuck in the same v shaped position, no matter what he says. In the pilot he emoted better, and his mouth changed shape.
-The new character was rather pointless, only served a purpose so Alastor could flex.
-Animation was good, sometimes moves a bit too fast, hard to keep track of things.
-Didn’t really like the episode.
CONT
>The tension between Alastor and the dad is so forced, I never once felt any vibe that Alastor was a father figure
You never felt it because Alastor and Charlie did not talk to each other this entire season.
Six
-Better episode, didn’t mind it too much.
-Charlie just has wads of cash to throw around, as does Angel. Kinda makes me wonder how things work over there. Does everyone have a job like Angel? Where does Charlie get money from?
-The swearing was over the top, felt like it was to catch up for the lack of swears in ep 5, its too much.
-Cherry’s voice accent is inconsistent. Its like there is some Britshness that comes and goes.
-Without watching the pilot, you’d wonder why when she first comes in, that Sir Pentious dubs her an arch nemesis.
-I do not understand Sir Pentious’ flip flop of seeing Cherry as an enemey, to suddenly wanting to frick her, can someone explain that to me? That said, I found his approach stupid adorable.
-Angel didn’t need to escalate things with Val, could have just quiet took Niffty away and mostly ignored Vals comments. Instead this scene felt a bit forced to show that Angel could be redeemed, he goes, I feel, out of his way to say “don’t frick with her” and now his ass will be paying for it in the next shoot.
-Niffty is the most consistent character, I like her. I also like Sir Pentious.
-Again songs felt shoehorned, first one was pointless but the second one was kinda okay, liked how all the vocal performances interacted with each other.
-Its implied Vaggie killed thoustands, but one day had a sudden change of heart seeing one kid? Really? I thought there were no minors in hell?
-Also, if Vaggie can get killed and then be “sent” to hell, what about the angel that was beheaded by the arms dealer?
-In this episode, the entire hotel is made pointless because the higher ups in heaven put their foot down. No point in Charlie to try, because heaven just doesn’t want these people.
I feel like I should feel more, regarding these characters, but the series is speed running plot points. Episode 6 was “a month away” from the angels coming back, it was half a year like what, two episodes before? This series needs more episodes to pad it out I feel, needs some more lore and things to slowly simmer to grow a good story. It’s going too fast. I’d rather take a hit on the animation for a 13 episode first season than a rushed 8 episode season.
Also what happened to Vox? He's just gone again after one episode.
Also, the hotel is big, massive. Yet for the entire series, we have only ever seen the lobby. The hotel is so fricking useless and the show is named after it. Might as well have called the show "Heaven vs Hell" or some shit like that, the hotel does nothing to move the series forward. Its not getting new guests. Its just ...there.
This show could have been so much more than what it turned out to be. It's painfully mediocre. Good ideas, bad execution.
END
>if Vaggie can get killed and then be “sent” to hell
she wasn't kill, she was just maimed and "exile" by the other exorcists
That makes no sense, wouldnt have Charlie been able to tell that it wasn't one of her people right then and there? Like she didnt know it was an angel? Also I swear Vaggie had her throat slit...
Why do people keep thinking that Charlie and Lucifer have some sort of angel-sense. Adam only recognized Vaggie because of her physical appearance, not because she smells like an angel or whatever.
Ive thought the previous episodes were funny and vibey but man this ep was actually quite kino. Lucifer has an actually unique personality that makes sense for his backstory and it avoids typical dad/daughter cliches. Alastor verbally fighting with Lucifer so he keeps influence over Charlie, the song itself was a banger. This is probably the season 1 hit.
>lucifer
>kino
>not cliche
He, Adam, Eve, Lilith are the oldest people in the universe and out of all of them Lucifer has no intimidating or commanding presence. He's pathetic, plain and simple. He's basically a clown doing cheap party tricks and gets instantly annoyed by Alastor who in relative to his life span is a fly on the wall on the list of sinners in Hell.
WHERE IS GOD/JESUS
Doesn't exist as the story would fall apart if he didn't take notice of what Adam was doing for years.
>Sir Pentious gets raped
Oh no...
wish i got to frick him too damn
I really want to know what's going on with Vaggie's characterization. It feels like they don't know what to do with her. It would've been good if despite her feelings on the Exterminators and how she was disowned, she showed some sort of reaction to being back home after so long. Maybe recommend some place for Charlie to go to before she leaves.
Charlie looking totally mind broken at the reveal of Vaggie being an angel made me lol. I know she has a valid reason to be upset that her GF secretly forever murdered a bunch of "her people" but this face is so over the top
It's such dramatic bullshit so she and Vaggie can get a song together next episode. Charlie already knows Vaggie isn't like that anymore. You'd almost think Adam just got done telling her that Vaggie killed her mom.
Yeah hahaha. I mean, looks like she found Vaggie killed her mom or something.
>Angel gets raped by Valentino
OH NOOO, THE HORROR!!
>Sir Pentious gets raped by 5 guys
HaHAhaHAHHahHAHhhahahHAHAHAhah!!
>pack luggage
>a portal opens to heaven
>no luggage with them
>suddenly luggage is in their hotel room
>a portal opens to hell while in court
>no luggage with them
Also, when it was revealed to the audience that Vaggie was an ex-angel, the scene in the hotel room, there should have been a musical cue of tension. Its a musical cartoon, but nothing happened to drive home the point of this surprising revelation. It just happens.
Could've chose any of the Angels like Gabriel or Michael, but they choose Peter for some reason.
Huh?
Will the archangel Michael show up in the show? I figured he’d be in charge but for some reason it’s Adam
The show seems to be going with a mix of classical angelic hierarchies - the Seraphim are the top-tier. As an Archangel, Michael would be the second-*lowest* tier.
I do love Michael though and want to see him kick ass in more things.
Makes sense. I fully expect God to be referenced in past events but I don’t know if Vivzie will go all the way and show Him or Jesus.
I would have rather they left out Peter for precisely that reason; it's one thing to engage with ancient mythological deities, but Jesus and Peter are at *least* semi-historical people (and almost certainly actual-historical, but you get what I mean) and so suggest a specific history on Earth rather than being able to be a broad-strokes take on the mythology.
>Sir Pentious sacrifices himself to save another demon during the extermination
>the angels watching in heaven have a holy frick are we the baddies moment and call off the extermination
>Adam rages and refuses to stop and gets his ass beat to death by Charlie
Not sure Charlie would fight. Might be enough for the other overlords to do it, if only out of self preservation. But they might hear Adam's unusual targeting of her out of spite or whatever his deal is.
All the overlords ganging up to rape Adam would be a pretty sick ending ngl
Adam can unitarily decide who is a fallen Angel. If he doesn't tell anyone else, no one in Heaven will ask where a missing angel (vaggie) ended up. Okay.
Also how come this isn't questioned in heaven? Imagine Adam trying to explain he kicked Vaggie out because she didn't kill a child
Sera basically says Adam gets special treatment because he was the first man.
It isn't questioned because until like 5 minutes ago nobody knew what Adam was doing. Emily is horrified when she finds out, and a lot of the other angels in court seemed put off too.
Damn, that child must've been fricked up on so many levels to end up in Hell. Lute was right for punishing Vaggie for not killing that monster.
>Show keeps teasing potential occupants of the Hotel
>Mimzy and Cherri: hur hur no way i'd live here!
So far this show only has two people who are living in the hotel to be redeemed. Husk and Niffty are just the staff.
>Lucifer will be a great character
>He won't be wasted
>He won't be washed up
>He won't be a confirmed cuckold
>He will slap the other Overlords of Hell around
It's over. Dump your Lucifer crypto coins.
w-we still have Satan maybe
I have faith considering Zestial exists and he has a cool design and hasn’t been made into a joke
His lines are a joke, just not intentionally.
What the frick is this site obsession with cuckoldry and, more importantly, calling everything they don't like cuckoldry? You homosexuals use the word so much but none of you seem to know what it actually means
People think it was the real Lilith who split from Lucifer, but most importantly, the real Lilith is talking to another man so that makes Lucifer a cuck.
Welcome to the internet. Every shitposter is actually fricking moronic.
Why Adam is off the leash could be explained with nepotism, Adam was the first man who was cursed with the fruit of knowledge. That's why the big boy Angels let him skirt the rules. What can't be explained is why Lucifer still has fans and believers after that miserable display where he lives in a cuck shed, surrounded and adored by no one, and everyone in Heaven knows he's a divorced nobody while Lilith got the big Alastor wiener.
Sister, you understand Lucifer portrayal is that of a wimp sissy homosexual or you're just pretending to be moronic again?
>wimp sissy homosexual
But enough projecting
I can be if that's your kink, sister.
>What the frick is this site obsession with cuckoldry and, more importantly, calling everything they don't like cuckoldry?
To be a cuck us to be the ultimate degradation for a man, hence why it's frequently used as an insult for things/people that are weak/pathetic/self-destructive.
Also, you need to go back to plebbit you dumb Black person.
Yeah and that's why you wienersucking homosexuals fantasize about being cucked so much you project it on everything you see. Maybe you should cut back on all that cuckold porn and go touch some grass for once
>Viv apparently doesn’t want to put in god or Jesus or even mention him outside of very minute references despite the fact they are literally the center of the religion she’s doing a parody of
>All because she apparently doesn’t want to create drama
>Oh but the literal Saint Peter can be shown swearing and acting like a feminine secretary
What kind of moronic Fujo logic is going on in her brain.
I think the reason Jesus isn't in this show is because they know there's no way they could write, Jesus "Forgive thy neighbor" Son of Christ as doing or saying anything other than, "Alright, let's give them another chance." Without it coming off as forced.
Not exactly. Biblical Jesus had a habit of making people figure out what he was saying, often being deliberately cryptic and speaking in parables.
Given that a big plot element is that the rules of entering Heaven are unclear to the angels themselves, Jesus presents a big problem in that he fundamentally changed the way people practice religion in the Abrahamic tradition; that is, there'd be a dividing line between People Who Got To Heaven Under The Old Rules and Post-Jesus Rules. So that's a huge logistical headache to have to deal with. OR you could portray Jesus as basically just being a prophet and a good guy - he didn't actually impact what the rules are, he was just an influential person. But then there's not much point in using him at all since he doesn't add much in that situation.
The show also seems to avoid bringing up the Bible at all now that I think about it. I thought during the court scene Adam was going to pull the book out and cherrypick some lines from it to keep wienerblocking Charlie, but he just pulled shit out of his ass.
Wouldn't Adam far predate the Bible? Would he even know much about it?
He'd probably read the parts he's in, and that's as far he would go.
Yet they have St. Peter in the show. Again, even some kind of equivalent I was expecting to be brought out even if its not directly called a Bible.
St. Peter at the pearly gates is normal cartoon heaven stuff whereas the Bible is the world's most controversial book series.
Because it's heaven/hell themed, not a show about the bible or christianity.
See, the issue is that as faulty as "knowing about and believing some events that happened in Jerusalem" is in terms of a standard for whether or not you go to Heaven or hell, Christianity is probably the one religion that CAN'T be called out in terms of the standards for Heaven/Hell being too vague.
Jesus probably does not even exist here. Did everyone miss the entire intro to ep1?
In this version of the christian myth, Adam and Eve did not bear the first sin and were allowed be kept in Heaven. Heaven does not see humans as inherent sinners by default unlike the actual Bible, so there was no need for Jesus. Jesus was made by God to give humanity the posibility to get into heaven after the first sin, but there's no reason to do that here when the first sin did not happen.
This is likely why Heaven is so overprotective of "non sinners" to the point of doing the exterminations, because they're actually fighting with Hell over humanity instead of humanity just being left to do their choices outside of god's will.
NTA but we see cross imagery at several points in the series which raises the question - does this imply the existence of Jesus or is it just because Viv doesn't understand why the cross is so important in Christianity?
>doesn't understand why the cross is so important in Christianity?
Everyone fricking knows. You cultists won't stop b***hing about it every fricking day, if not minute.
Hi there VIv, if you know so well then why use it if Jesus doesn't exist in your show - or at the very least the lore?
The cross is likely there just for "le religious imagery" tho it is of note that the crucifix has existed as a symbol before the crucifixion and it was actually considered a heretic and evil symbol by christian followers for up until 200-300 years following Jesus's death.
>Jesus probably does not even exist here
For whatever reason, his name at the very least does exist in this universe. Characters use “christ” and “jesus christ” as an expletive multiple times. Hell, in Helluva Boss “Christ on a stick” is Blitzo’s fricking catch phrase.
Blitz did mention Christ as a part of his swears though, so at the very least Jesus exists in-universe as the idea. I guess he might just be a fictional religious character
Hmmm, could be. There's also a chance that maybe Jesus was sent more so as a message to all the fricked up bloodshed that was happening in history at the tame. Point is though that this is overall very different from classic christ stuff and we dont really know where its gonna go.
Lute should be in Hell for what she did to poor Vaggie
>What could have been:
They're all cookie cutter designs
>Some people are randomly "born" into a clean safe society
>Others are randomly "born" into a dangerous shithole
The whole show is a metaphor for white privilege.
Heaven sounds so boring. Hell sounds like fun. Also, do the people of hell even know that the angles are killing people in hell?
No, they think its the vectors who are doing it
*people of heaven
>do the people of heaven even know that the angels are killing people in hell?
They do not! That's kind of an important plot reveal.
Yeah I've said that if it weren't for extermination a lot of people would clearly prefer this version of Hell to this version of Heaven. It's ancapistan
Is a shill campaign running on Tumblr or something? People saying the show turned good in just two episodes when they did anything but confirm the show is heading to be a total shitfest.
Episode 6 actually was good tho.
It wasnt
It was better then ep 5, but it’s still like a 6/10
There's nothing about the last two episodes that isn't downright terrible.
Reminder that in Shin Megami Tensei Lucifer calls Satan a homosexual for doing God's work for free like a b***h and Satan naturally hates him for trying to frick up God's law and order.
Lute is cute! CUTE!
Her "real" face is cute i won't deny it, but i liked better when there was the possibility that those "masks" were actually their real faces, it thought it made the exterminators more interesting and unique
I wanna get chained up by Alastor like Husk did….
Same, but only if he wears the nun outfit again
dude this show has way too many chains for the production staff to NOT be into it. the portrayal of power dynamics or rape in this show is so fricking unserious. i don't know what the frick they were trying to achieve by showing val's fricking foot-long tongue but i don't think it was to intimidate.
The show is not only failing up to their initial premise, but now is picking up more reasons to be shit.
People were running massive damage control a few days back saying
>B-but this isn't real portrayal of christianity!!!!!
And now you get a ridiculous portrayal of Heaven and St. Peter. I feel like I'm watching a /misc/ show but made in Tumblr.
Why do the angels not know what it takes for humans to get to heaven... when they created them?
Why did the angels let Adam become an angel in charge of exterminating his own offspring when he was the guy who caused this whole situation to begin with? Was it supposed to be some kind of ironic punishment? He clearly doesn't think so and is having a great time with it, so do they somehow not notice that? Are they stupid?
Why was Charlie so surprised by the angels being corrupt and inept when she was literally raised on stories told by Lucifer and Lilith that the angels carried out the exterminations with the express purpose of preventing Hell from rising up against them? Is she stupid?
How do the exterminations even work? Is annihilating a soul from existence even actually possible? Is that what the angelic weapons do? If the angels don't want the souls in Hell rising up against them, why don't they just immediately permakill every single damned soul with angelic weapons from the start?
If Vaggie is an angel, why does she randomly speak Spanish sometimes? Is she a Hispanic angel? Are the exterminator angels former humans like Adam or are they just a different thing altogether like the other species in Hell? If a soul of a dead human can fall then doesn't that obviously mean that it can also be redeemed? Isn't Vaggie's mere existence implicit proof of this, in plain sight?
Why does Charlie even think Heaven is desirable in the first place if she's literally the daughter of the first guy to rebel against it and get kicked out?
Why did Lucifer agree to send Charlie to meet with Heaven if he already knows that they'll never agree to her ideas? Was it just to teach her a lesson? Is he a secret butthole?
If Alastor was like the most feared demon ever and he only disappeared 7 years ago, why has Charlie never even heard of him when she's way older than 7? Did she just never go outside or interact with anyone until then?
>Why was Charlie so surprised by the angels being corrupt and inept when she was literally raised on stories told by Lucifer and Lilith that the angels carried out the exterminations with the express purpose of preventing Hell from rising up against them? Is she stupid?
Her entire character is dragging this show down. She's frustratingly stupid.
>Lucifer actually didn't want to send Charlie to heaven because he knew how stupid she is
She's not stupid, just hopeful.
>Why did Lucifer agree to send Charlie to meet with Heaven if he already knows that they'll never agree to her ideas? Was it just to teach her a lesson? Is he a secret butthole?
He clearly didn't want to in the episode and only did so after Charlie begged him/guilted him into it. The idea being she is an adult and gets to make her own choices even if it's pointless.
>If Alastor was like the most feared demon ever and he only disappeared 7 years ago, why has Charlie never even heard of him when she's way older than 7? Did she just never go outside or interact with anyone until then?
At least on this point Lucifer doesn't seem to know Alastor either so it might be the household was just in it's own little bubble. Although with Vaggie's backstory now revealed it begs the question how she knew about him but that scene was in the pilot and I don't know if that's canon or not anymore.
Do you have ADHD?
All of these answers can be easily answered by just actually watching the show, anon, pay attention next time and stop speedwatching.
>can easily be fanficted
>
Why was Charlie so surprised by the angels being corrupt and inept when she was literally raised on stories told by Lucifer and Lilith that the angels carried out the exterminations with the express purpose of preventing Hell from rising up against them?
Because her core character trait, for good and ill, is that she assumes the best of everyone. She takes the Angels completely at their word that the Exterminations happen *only* to prevent Hell from growing powerful enough to rise against them. Because she believes the best in everyone, she assumes that if she can simply resolve the underlying problem by making it so Hell's numbers don't exceed Heaven's, they'll stop the Exterminations.
She's shocked when Adam says he doesn't care and wants to keep doing them simply for his own amusement. But even then, she assumes that the *other* angels are surely more reasonable.
>Why did Lucifer agree to send Charlie to meet with Heaven if he already knows that they'll never agree to her ideas? Was it just to teach her a lesson? Is he a secret butthole?
Did you watch the show? He's desperate for a relationship with his daughter and did it as a favor under pressure.
That being said, Lucifer's blackpilled viewpoint is clearly shown to be wrong.
Yes, Heaven rejects Charlie's ideas, but it's notable that most of the angels there who weren't named Sera, Adam, or Lute seemed willing to give it a shot. Emily was openly enthusiastic. The problem isn't "Heaven won't ever listen".
It's that a handful of angels acting in bad faith won't listen. His views about sinners being unable to change are also wrong, as shown by Angel Dust being a good friend at the club.
So we all agree, that Alastor is on a leash from Lilith?
Charlie/Emily Yuri with sera and Lucifer watching there daughters bang
Emily abducting Charlie and making her fall in love with her via stockholm syndrome!
Charlie get mind broken because haven say hi to her.
Wonder what Sera thinks of Emily new pet
FUN!
These keep getting more creative
Let's rate new songs
>hell's great dad
10/10 for the first half, but then the second half RUINED. Wish it kept the beat from that first half for the entire song, and didn't have Mimsy fricking ruin the last part (even more). 5/10 for second half, 3/10 for Mimsy
>more than anything
Not on my favorites list, but it was very sweet to listen to and nowhere near the bottom. Solid 8/10
>welcome to heaven
6/10. Average, but not the worst. Not really much to say about it
>you didn't know
Solid 10/10, especially the Hell is Forever reprise.
I'm gonna be pissed if Charlie makes a big stink about Vaggie being an ex-exterminator when she's all buddy buddy with an unapologetic murderous cannibal.
She might just ask her why she didn't tell her more about heaven, I guess. Though I'm not sure there are many details that would help with regard to the Hotel, as even with the court no one fricking knew what the rules are.
>Alastor swearing
should be against his classy code of conduct, you couldnt swear on radio back then.
Yes you could. People just didn’t swear as much in general, and they also had different naughty words that seem much tamer now.
the songs in episode 5 and 6 are a lot better than the ones in the first 4
agree?
2/4 for me. Alastor vs Lucifer was awesome, and so was Charlie vs Heaven. The rest was crap.
Episode 5 felt like it dragged on forever just to get to some kind of point.
The songs in this show are either total misses or good.
The Vox song, Respectless, Welcome to Heaven, and You Didn't Know are all pretty good.
Mega
Mega
Mega
reddit reddit reddit
you can go watch it on kimcartoon or something, moron
IT'S NOT FAIR, SERA
DON'T YOU CARE, SERA?
So someone who works on this show…definitely has a ‘thing’ for chains and anything involving ‘bondage’ in general yes?
And that someone’s name is Vivziepop, yes.
It's Viv, just look at the controversy of her favorite list videos in her youtube Zoophibia account, and how she hired a artist with a rape kink for the show
It's her FETISH, no matter how much she tries to deny it
Sera is strongly giving off the impression that there's something above her that's
>immensely powerful
>she can't talk about
>they all want to avoid catching the attention of/pissing off
and I hope it's not Roo.
It's Roo. They don't want sinners in heaven because that might risk her getting in and ruining everything
BOO Vivzie you prostitute
Abraxas
Between her, Lilith, and Alastor, all of the allusions to “something even BIGGER secretly going on” are feeling a little overhyped, and I really hope it pays off and isn’t fumbled too hard.
>Roo
Who?
Root Of All Evil. Upcoming character revealed via leaks.
It amazing the I hate the concept of Root for be the global scapegoat for why people are evil.
From what I know, Seraphim are high ranking but there are higher ranked angels aren’t there?
Like dudes like Michael would rank over her, then Jesus and God himself.
Seraphim is supposed to be the highest angel ranking in heaven
While Michael is supposed to be an Archangel
You're talking out of your ass, but in fairness, Christian theology is pretty confusing and contradictory.
The only christianity sect that has a defined hierarchy of angels and saints is american sects and thats because all of their texts are just blatant fanfiction and "Trust me bros".
You're still talking out of your ass.
Im not even the person u were originally talking to, just making a point. Actual christian texts are confusing and contradictory because they come from a bunch of different dudes over the span of 1000 years. Anything that tries to make sense of it is likely just lying to you.
I mean, we still have christian texts from around the same period contradicting whether or not Nimrod is an actual biblical figure.
>Anything that tries to make sense of it is likely just lying to you.
Religious texts, lying to me? Say it isn't so.
American Christians are typically puritan descended unless you mean the mormons.
seraphim are at the top of the christian hierarchy
If you're using a hierarchy in which there are Seraphim, the Archangels like Michael are lower than them, sometimes significantly so.
Hierarchies where the Archangels are at the top don't generally include Seraphim.
God,Roo,Micheal,Viv festish list
How can this guy draw this show so well but cant draw Sonic characters worth a damn? I am legit surprised its the same artist.
>random anon: I KNOW THAT BRUSHSTROKE ANYWHERE
kek
At least they don't just recognize a penis.
what is Adam looking at?
>Vaggie's ass
I now headcanon that Adam knows all his angel b***hes from memorizing the exact numerical dimensions of their asses
>wait a second, I know that ass!
>that’s Heaven’s ass!
>anthro style like a lot of the better Sonic Furry Artists out there.
There is a right and wrong way to apply those traits. Also, better is subjective. You are taking the head and simply placing it on an adult body. Anyone can do that. Real artists can adapt to and shows style and draw it a bit more on model.
>Real artists
the frick are you droning on about, I've seen plenty of Sonic porn where they draw Rouge with an Adult Body and simply add her head in.
Real artists draw on model, they can adapt to any style.
Mid artists do AI slop like just slapping the heads on the same generic body over and over.
>Real artists draw on model
>tfw no Hazbin comic on par with the Grojband one
He draws Sonic characters in a more anthro style like a lot of the better Sonic Furry Artists out there. People just b***h at him for not doing them on-model
leave it to Cinemaphile anons to literally geolocate a man just from a single brushstroke
It's like a signature, Aval0nX has a very distinctive lineart style, precise in some parts and lazy in others, he also tends to use very specific settings in the program he uses. Same goes for picture dimensions, resolution, fonts, etc. It's not hard
Speaking personally it's easy to identify certain other people by the settings they use in digital art. I use procreate and an ipad to draw myself and can see the styles that people are using to produce their work. It's not that surprising that someone on Cinemaphile could do this, they are a lot of professional animators here
>2010
oh no way famous people browse Cinemaphile
>2024
another famous person on Cinemaphile...
no way...
Would love to see this guy draw something based on Charlie's brief interaction here
WHy does this furry creature have no asscrack or nipples?
Can't show that in a (non)-Christian cartoon!
le safe horny, chud
>chud
Dont make me threaten you with a good time
I dont wanna be that guy but you do realize canines dont have asses right?
I dont think that demon is a canine anon
You ever made a dog stand up before, they literally dont have an ass like us.
>nipples
you can make the argument that from that angle you wouldn't see them if they aren't hard/the fur is covering the areola
>asscrack
probably an animation error.
I mean I can draw whatever. But you're not gonna' like it ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
you should draw old m&m with my fankid of theirs, mickey
Really weird finger gap on her hand.
pretty sure she's making a spreading motion with her hand
Thats not how you do that.
Loona x Blitzo is Charlie's fujo incest fanfiction. fricking keked
Oh yeah.
>not a real artist
Nah, see, for these characters, you hit the mark quite well. I think the Viv style is somewhat tricky to capture but you did good.
Honestly this and the others HH artis is the first works of yours I have seen in many years, you musta really got better with art.
now draw mammon yelling 'get in de fookin kha!' out of a car's window.
plz.
>AvalonX
Huh... an interesting turn of events.
That said... FINISH "BABYSITTING CREAM" YOU PROCRASTINATING OLD FRICK OR GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO WILL!
I thought SC was redoing the art? Their art looked much better.
Got a nice picture of the three homosexuals who echo chamber hate against hazbin on twitter
How long until they drop the mask and admit they love the show?
How the frick did Charlies dad not know she was into girls?
Well her only other previous relationship was dating the Chad son of Lucifer’s demon buddy, so he probably didn’t know she swung both ways.
She probably didn’t tell him, and even when she dies tell him things, it’s clear he sometimes doesn’t pay attention/doesn’t remember. He didn’t even remember her mentioning the hotel, which was clearly very important to her. So while she was definitely already seeing Vaggie at the time he called her five moths ago, she also possibly didn’t say anything about the relationship.
Will we see a submissive Alastor when Lilith appears?
Where's the anon who revealed that Vivi has a massive hard on against Catholicism when you need him?
Roo is the primordial force of evil (preceding Adam, Lilith, the fall of Lucifer and the creation of Hell and demons), who reached Earth/Eden when Eve ate the apple (and maybe Roo is possesing Eve's body), right?
I wonder if there is a primordial force of goodness and God (neutral, creator), or it just God.
Angels are said to worship good in the intro, so there is that.
>there’s a force of good to parallel Roo
>good character’s name is All That Is Holy
>shortens it to Ho
>Ho
An actual good raunchy joke so Viv would never, lmao.
plot twist: Roo is just an alter ego of Azathoth from the cuthulu mythos
I hate how everyone pronounces Alastor now. They keep saying Alaster instead.
verbalase has been doxxed btw. does anyone wanna send a charlie to his house?
How about you stop giving attention prostitutes attention.
It would be funny if they shoehorned God into this show at the last minute showing him to basically be a shut in neet who treats heaven/hell/earth like his neglected project that he's stressing out about in the back of his head while he paints miniatures and seraph and the angel council are completely directionless as a result. and when I meant funny i meant it's probably going to be that
Lute is CUTE!
>People saying Lute is hot
>Lute looks like a constantly ticked-off 50 year old
personally I think Emily is cuter, and only in the "adorable puppy" way
I dislike how from now on a good portion of her fanart is now going to potray her as...just this... instead of the black-skin Angel with interesting mask-face
She’s attractive and all, but she had more personality with the mask on.
I dont get the people saying the design has more personality with the mask on. She has an unique expression and vibe with her face uncovered.
That's what you think and it's completely valid, i just think that she was more visually interesting with the idea of that "mask" being her actual face
Don’t know why but she reminds me a lot of Sam Manson from Danny Phantom. I think it’s the hairstyle and pointed face.
Will Alastor be revealed to be enslaved/enserfed to Lilith in the same way Husk and probably Niffty are to him and how Angel is to Val? Or will it be more like an informal thing?
to me that scene of him talking with Husk was a clear foreshadowing that his leash is be pulled sooner or later in the show
I want Lute to sing about wieners more
Did anyone get Genie vibes from Lucifer in his first song or just me?
Im pretty sure Charlie can grow a dick
Definitely heard somebody else say they picked up Friend Like Me vibes from the song, so you’re not alone. I can see it, though I didn’t think of it on my own at first watch.
It doesn't *sound* anything like Friend Like Me, but with Lucifer appearing as a fancy restaurant chef AND doing the slot-machine thing AND this frame of him conjuring piles of wealth?
Yeah, Friend Like Me is a huge inspiration for this song.
This scene, the restaurant, and all the times he's made copies of himself really sold the genie inspiration for me
their expressions in this pic are what sells it for me.
Shame the whole "on model" discussion is probably going to scare him away and these are probably going to be the only pics we're going to get
Gotta say I love the reprisal of Hell is Forever by Charlie and Emily.
Reminds me of Jafar singing Prince Ali to mock Aladin, but in this case it’s to nail down on heaven’s hypocrisy
kek the only people who think Lucifer is good in this show are biological women fans. What an emasculated little cuck Lucifer turned out to be, even Angel has more self-respect and better image projection than Lucifer crying in his cuck shed.
He didn't get a single good punch or throw or toss on Alastor, not even in the song as a gag. It's pathetic really.
It was so forced putting this jeaously thing between the two. Besides since Lucifer cares about his daughte he would have known the radio demon was hanging out with Charlie, which would set off all parental bells in his head. I did hear an interesting theory that Alastor got so strong in hell because he made a deal with Lilith and now she's asking for him to pay his end of the bargain by babysitting Charlie with her powers being lent to Alastor on that condition. And for those keeping track that means
>Lucifer isn't respected by his population
>Lucifer has nothing to say to Overlords of Hell
>Lucifer's wife takes his child
>Lucifer's wife gives her powers to Alastor
>Lucifer's only child is getting dad love from Alastor
>Lucifer stays in his cuck shed talking to ugly duckings as a metaphor for souls lost in hell who can only-BAWHAHA HE'S A FRICKING KEK
LMAO
Lucifer managed to get Alastor to say "Frick You" to his face
This. Honestly I'm starting to think the theory that both Vox and Alastor draw power based on recognition and fame is right. Alastor always gets VERY salty whenever someone doesn't fall over themselves to suck his dick.
Happened when Carmella just shrugged at him being back too.
Lily never cheated on him though
That we know of. So far.
She already cucked Adam, it’s not a stretch she’d do it again.
She abandoned him for years because he's a toxic maaaaaaleeeeee. The show can't treat him worse at this point.
We don't know if the Lilith who left Lucifer is the real Lilith
>nooooo Charlie you can't try! Trying is for losers! Just sit in your room and doom all day like meeee! >Nobody will ever change or listen to uuuu
>angel already changing
>one of the two rulers of heaven is on board immediately
Man this guy really is just a moron huh
Why the tools in the background?
Did you not see him working very hard on his duck?
TBF he probably gets a different reception when he talks with heaven.
yeah basically. Although his origin story was with Big G and not emily, so he's probably got a different idea of what would happen
*since god is meant to be unswayable, while the two angel girls in charge now don't really know what they're doing
No hes just a complete fricking schizo
The most powerful forced in his universe set out to break his spirit, and they succeeded. I really can’t blame him for having a defeatist attitude when that is his whole life.
It really is a shitty take on him since he's the king of hell and should prefer that sinners remain sinners and not submit to God and the other angels because that would prove him wrong for the damage that he did.
>The face Charlie makes when Alastor puts his hand on her cheek while singing
>Making an audible ‘ahh!’ When he says how they’ve got ‘such a great bond’
She doesn’t want to betray Vaggie
But part of her ‘wants it‘ so bad.
Well she’s out of luck, because Alastor is Asexual + Aromantic,
Probably the best she could convince him into doing is letting her cuddle him
That will never happen cuz Alastor sees Charlie as a daughter he never had
>actually believing his bullshit lies
midwit filter
https://kimcartoon.li/Cartoon/Hazbin-Hotel/Episode-5?id=111769
8:14
>taking his word at face value
He's using it to tease Satan
He was weirdly protective of the hotel in that convo with the fat chick so maybe Viv is having him genuinely warm up to Charlie instead of just using her idk
I hope there is a little bit of duplicity and hidden motives in his actions. Like you think he's warming up but then he does something that solidifies he's just as big a bastard as everyone thought, then at the end of his arc gets redeemed.
I think Sera is beautiful and under those clothes she has a big fat ass that she likes to make clap when no one sees her.
Perfect holy chocolate, I fear there going to Stella her hard.
Frick no, they cant. Leave my multi-eyed giant mommy alone
>Looks like Stella
Oh so thats why Sera's appearance made me instantly hard
I'm starting to think Alastor's permanent smile/grin is actually part of his demon look and he's physically incapable of stopping
The more I watch it, the more convinced I am that the show is going with either with a more gnostic route and God is really part of the universe or interact with it (the angels being just deluded archons), or a platonic route with God being just the form of Good and not really a being with a will proper
>no G*d
>no Jesus
>no tyrants or racists
Maybe the whole setting was a mistake.
>gnostic
The Serpent in the garden being a well intended messager is directly lifted from Sethian Gnosticism, altho ig that could be by accident in Vivs case. I doubt she's read the gnostic texts.
UHHHH guys? Sir pentious was supposed to not have sex before marriage.... And he had a lot of sex this episode. Like sex with strangers, a lot of strangers. What's that about? Well well well we're back at square one. He won't be the first soul to get redeemed like I thought
Maybe he didnt have sex with them and they just forced him to watch, very closesly, how they all gangbanged each other.
He hypnotized the others to get out of the room, easy as that.
he was raped. he was raped for our sins
His title is not Sir anymore. He's a Saint pentious now because he sacrificed himself selflessly
"Pentious did you lay this egg?"
Sir Pentious has had a lot of sex all along. That is where the eggs come from.
>Implying he didnt hypno stun them and slink away
I wish I had his balls, straight up going to ask his crush to have sex.
"Hey wanna have ssssssex with me at the ssssssex room?"
He has that autistic snake rizz
He had several shots in his system by then, he was running off liquid courage.
I've been everything up to blackout drunk and I still would be too cowardly for that
now that I know there are kids in hell I demand Vivzie give us pedo representation and many scenes of those kids being sexxed like they are meant to be
vivzie herself is the pedo representation, anon
>lucifer keks can only say IT DOESN'T COUNT NOT THE REAL LILITH
>HE'S A BIG HOT SHOT
Yeah, lucifer in hazbin hotel takes all the shots from angel dust to the mouth in-between his crying. sell sell! dump your Lucifer stock right now!
t. not the radio demon
>t. not the radio demon
I smell the fear of irrelevancy.
>Yeah, lucifer in hazbin hotel takes all the shots from angel dust to the mouth
But anon, sucking AD's dick is a brag, not a point of shame
So Val is a pedo right? Did you see how he was looking at Nifty?
Nifty is an adult.
Shes 22 but she does look like a child, Val is very likely a pedo subhuman (like serps)
How come noone says 'homosexual' in hell?
I’m normally not for cuckposting, but it really is funny how within minutes of Emily being introduced she’s got so much more chemistry with Charlie and they even sing a song together.
>BECAUSE IM GOING TO HAVE SEX WITH EVERYONE
I fricking lost it
How long till Best Girl Emily falls bros?
Lute here, some of you hell homosexual sinners are rock hard OKAY by me. Don't come to the Hell embassy on Tuesday.
t. Adam
I want to have nasty baby making intercourse with Emily
>why would you and me have sex?
>uh ... um ... because ... because I'm having sex with everyone!
That was a nice end to a gag.
First time the show ever made me laugh
I’m nominating Emily for miss Cinemaphile
Are you with me anons?
No, because I'm voting Lute
>Miss Cinemaphile is forever whether you like it or not!
>Petty squabbling about rigging won’t change the results or did you forgot-?
>That Lute is best bae and she’s the only queen who slay
>When she face the wannabe champs just to climb her way up again
Love it
>did you forgot
The one time I won't let ESL grammar slide is when it changes the rhyme scheme.
You can just change it to "have you forgot"
Still not proper, but better.
Sure it's supposed to be forgotten, but it sounds fine to me
Man I wish some anon actually puts the effort to make that song in the next miss Cinemaphile. That’d win my vote
Holy shit this show is going insanely fast so much stuff happens in episode 6
I dont even care about Helluva Boss anymore
>Emily and Charlie have more chemistry than whatever Vaggie was doing for 6 episodes
You love to see it
Best ship in an episode
>Vaggie wanted to out of heave ASAP not because she feared Charlie learning the truth about her
>But because she feared being cucked by Emily, who out-angels her in every aspect
It is chemistry but it's not shippy because Emily is just player 2 Charlie.
Doesnt the fact that Lute believes that Angels dont make mistakes completely contradict how she treated Vaggie for not wanting to kill a demon child? Especially since the whole extermination thing is viewed as a game for them. Lute believes heaven and hell are forever and there are no mistakes in who gets placed where and then she inmediately damns one of her own kind, placed in heaven, just for not wanting to slaughter a child. Seems dumb and contrived.
I don't think she literally believes that they're incapable of making mistakes, she thinks their just don't count
It's almost like Adam and Lute are meant to be hypocrites and terrible people.
But more seriously, Lute seems very much like the "orders are orders and orders are all that matters" type of character, so Vaggie refusing their directive to kill every demon they catch would probably be seen in her eyes as way worse than the act of killing a damned child who she presumably thinks deserves to be there.
It's a little vague, but it's suggested that Adam *created* Lute and the other Exorcists. Angels *can* create life, and he apparently is the one who gave Vaggie her name, which would be odd for her to not have one before that.
I wonder if she actually considers Vaggie an angel anymore. She ripped her wings off and left her half blind in the pits of hell.
I think Lute was referring to Angels as a collective, not as every individual angel
>the rules are shades of grey when you don't do as you say
>when you make the wretched suffer just to kill them again
Gotta admit that was pretty dope
>you guys don't even know what brings a soul to heaven?!
This plot point feels a little bit forced, is like Vivzie is trying to bring some type of bug in the matrix as if there's rules people don't know.....how are you even going to make this shit make sense without even having a "God" to explain why things are the way they are
The problem with it is it’s pretty damn clear how to get into heaven: just don’t be an evil fricking butthole in life like literally every Sinner in hell was.
Except Adam is just as bad as any random sinner so it's not really clear.
Lying is also a sin, and Sera is lying to all of heaven about the purges, but that's fine?
>Except Adam is just as bad as any random sinner so it's not really clear.
Oh yeah sure! being mysoginist and a bit of a jerk is the exact same of being a cannibal serial killer, a junkie mobster, or a pimp rapist
How do you reconcile your idea that EVERY sinner in Hell is "a cannibal serial killer", a "junkie mobster" or a "pimp rapist" with the fact that Hell gets way more people than Heaven does? Surely you don't think the *median* person is one of those three things?
Maybe it’s the shows fault for not having any minor sin or crime committing sinners and everyone being over the top evil.
It’s either bad writing, or heaven has a very lenient entry levels so even buttholes like Adam can get in.
You could argue that killing souls for good, damned or not, is worse than anything a human could do in their life on Earth. If some dickweed stabs you on Earth, at least you keep existing, whether as a demon or an angel. Exorcists, on the other hand, are the end of the line, and it doesn't look like they care how severe your sins were when they mow you down.
Another issue might be that he's literally running a glowBlack person op in secrecy from the rest of the heaven and is enjoying every second of it.
Do exorcists kill hellborn too? Or only sinners? It seems like they just do it on random because that's the only option if he'll doesn't cooperate
At least one went for that hellborn's daughters.
I thought Carmilla was a sinner.
Oh, sorry, I'm moronic.
I mean it's a fair point. Pride has both Hellborn and Sinners, and some sinners look pretty similar to the former so idk how the Angels tell the difference reliably.
Carmella isn't hellborn. She's a sinner. All the overlords are.
I think they kill everyone in Pride (Vaggie was about to kill one kid of the cannibal hellborn demons). The thing is Hellborn demons can get out of Pride, sinners cant, so they can leave Pride until the Extermiantion is over (but that means their business and homes are without protection of the angels and other demons) or stay and wait the best.
Alright so sinners can't leave that pentagram city and hellborns can explore all of hell if they want to? Hellborns should just move out of that city if exterminations happen only there. That's how it works?
Yes. Sinners are banned from leaving Pride. They can presumably visit anywhere in Pride they want, but beyond that Lucifer bans them.
So Lucifer made being outside of pride as a sinner illegal and any hellborn imp has permission to shoot sinners on sight if they're outside of the city? Or is there a magical barrier that prevents them from going outside? Living in a city of any kind must suck, not to mention being bound to a hell city
And why are there cities named after human sins but sinners can only stay in Pride?
I honestly don't know how they enforce that rule, idt it's ever been said.
I think it's a thing where he's embarrassed by them. They're walking proof of how his beliefs are shit.
It’s not explained but I assume it’s like a magic barrier that prevents Sinners from passing to other rings, since we’ve seen some of the others in HB and it’s only hellspawn no sinners at all.
This question was answered on viv's patreon, which is that the rule is just a law, and that sinners can enter the other rings. It's more akin to crossing borders illegally.
Then I think everyone would escape the executions to the other sectors than pride and exorcists would have to destroy the entire pentagram city randomly like I said. Even hellborns wouldn't be spared in this randomness. Why do people assume pride is the only place sinners can be?
Assume Sinners are hells equivalent of violent illegal immigrants.
>Why do people assume pride is the only place sinners can be?
Canon fact
>Why do people assume pride is the only place sinners can be?
because that little piece of trivia is locked behind a paywall, and leaking patreon content is looked down upon. I ABSOLUTELY HATE when a creator locks the lore of their stuff behind a paywall. Like why?
That's like paying for onlyfans. b***h I can watch the leaks instead of paying
Adam's song "Hell is Forever" is pretty clear that the victims of the Exterminations are all sinners; else Adam would not use the excuse that they all had had their chance in life and wasted it.
Sinners can go to any part of Pride (which has multiple cities/settlements like Imp City), but they're largely settled in Pentagram City.
Sinners can only move in pride (all the circle), the thing is, for what see, the rest of Pride is just desert. I think Pentagram City is super massive (and Pride relative small), with many parts, subcities and neighborhoods (like Imp-city and Stolas Castle). The only place we know located in Pride outside Pentagram City is Andrealphus's castle).
So, the Hellborn demons can move to other circles or stay in safe places and wait. Sinners wait the best (Overlords dont need to worry, they have bunkers, like the V's Tower, but common sinners... they are pretty fricked).
I don't get how that pentagram city sectors work. So in this picture one part of that is pride city and sinners are stuck there right? I guess overlords are sinners too and they have this organization to survive exterminations? If sinners invaded overlord bunkers at exterminations then the overlords are strong enough to not let any common sinners inside I guess.
I agree. If you don't end up in hell then you deserve to be in heaven, simple for me. The question should be how do you end up in hell, not how you end up in heaven.
There would not be an overpopulation problem in Hell for the angels to purge annually unless more than 50% of people go to Hell. The median person isn't "an evil fricking butthole".
>The median person isn't "an evil fricking butthole".
Lol yes they fricking are. What type of sheltered moron are you?
See, that's the thing; I do not live on Cinemaphile, try getting outside once in a while and talking to people
If you had any actual experience with people in a real world setting you would know that most people are vapid and selfish, and that human nature is one of inherent selfishness.
But instead you're a sheltered dweeb, telling others to touch grass. You probably live in some backwater small town in the Midwest.
I think your chakras need realigning my dude
The average person looking out for number 1 isn't the same as the average person being a psychotic serial killer
My dude I'm ivy-league educated living in my own house just outside the city on the coast. You're too trapped in your own self-loathing to see anything in others beyond your own hatred.
I dunno, maybe I'm naive and gotten lucky, but usually I find that when I get to know people they're alright. Definitely not always saints, and sure people have self interests, but if you treat people with respect they'll generally reciprocate.
I know right, they literally have "rings" for the sins, why in the frick you don't know what you are not supposed to do?
That's not confirmed in the show, but even if it were confirmed, sinners are all in the Pride ring; they're not segregated out by sin. So that doesn't directly prove anything.
Do you NEED to be evil to end up in hell or is the entry barrier just fricking up once? I'm sure there's a ton of evil people in heaven, but all things considered the majority of the population should just be people who just weren't good enough
The notion that children can end up in hell seems to throw a wrench into the notion that only evil people end up in hell
Maybe it was a real dick kid
Adam and Lute having to stay at the Hotel for season 2 would be kino but I fear they will be killed in the finale.
Adam would probably enjoy hell on an unironic level once there.
They are setting him up to be some kind of rockstar. I dont know if that will go anywhere though. But it would be very funny seeing Charlie having to try and redeem this chauvinistic butthole. Perhaps the place to start is how he doesnt seem to treat Lute differently just because shes a woman.
>seraph named Sera
Really, Viv?
Maybe Viv is just a hardcore Calvinist and believes in the elect
One thing that bugs me is the fact that yeah everyone sins but most people search for redemption while they are alive, they keep pushing this whole "Omg Adam is such an butthole why a guy like this is heaven" joke...but the dude could've easily searched forgiveness after the whole apple shit and went full butthole while being in heaven
>joke...but the dude could've easily searched forgiveness after the whole apple shit and went full butthole while being in heaven
This is the root of the problem. We see that angels CAN be barred from heaven, as happened with the Cherubim who accidentally killed a human in helluva boss, but apart from that it seems like some angels are just above the law/it gets ignored as long as they don't get caught sinning.
If Hell is actually gonna be forever then there needs to be a mechanism by which people in heaven can get reliably tossed out for being lapsed. That's the only fair way to do it.
Why are the even episodes always better than the odd ones?
Do you agree with me that we can remove 1 song from each episode?
So is Viv arguing for a Buddhist/Hindu cosmology?
I remember watching the pilot, what happened to make the new show crappier in animation and voice acting and actually crappier overall as well?
This part was kino. Love a reprise.
Those characters need at least an episode beforehand before they start singing. Carmilla and her.
That's fair, it was pretty rushed. But similarly I see why they wouldn't want to make the angels too large a part of the cast and draw attention from the demons.
I like the song but yeh we should have gotten an episode of Charlie and Emily hanging out before the court drama
Funky things happening with the meter there
I like how the flames, as a refelction, were in the eyes of the character thats is supposed to know best and be making the right choices for heaven.
Now you know why most shows just make God be an butthole, having angels be this dumb always looks moronic
I think its less that they are dumb and more that the average angel is ignorant. Sera is their de facto queen and is ruling based on a lie.
Do you think she tops both the other two?
She gives me lesbian vibes, just like every other woman in this show.
>looks like a cute goth girl in the pilot
>acts and sounds like a hag
Why?
I don't recall her even having any lines in the pilot
So - what does this imply? That Husk knows who Alastor is dealing with and/or he knows why he was gone?
my bet is he is related to hell somehow
Kind of expected the Exorcist Angels to be on par with Valkyries.
I wanted a discount God of War story involving hell.
Can I just say it's kind of refreshing that when I google who the actors are in this show, they all have a big list of musical stage work?
Like goddamn Hollywood keeps casting non-singing actors in their musicals. I love Meryl Streep, but goddamn please stop putting her in musicals. Hire these people, they're amazing.