Stopping someone else from dying? That would bring a semblance of meaning to Dr. Manhattan's life, and his entire character and MO are about having a meaningless 3deep5u existence
Why didn't he just put the whole world in a bottle?
Stopping someone else from dying? That would bring a semblance of meaning to Dr. Manhattan's life, and his entire character and MO are about having a meaningless 3deep5u existence
The absolute seething radiating from that picture is so silly. That is not remotely what Alan meant with the story, it feels like someone who got mad when he said you're not supposed to want to be a schizo like Rosarch made it
>smoothbrain who thinks that the story is endorsing Ozymandias' actions.
I am stupid, and haven't read comic, but how else could the story be interpreted?
>what makes you ask such a question?
I have seen the film adaptation, wasn't the only meaningful change removal of octopus thing? And fine, there definitely will be small details and side stories, but the core is still the same.
One guy loses, the other wins. One is killed, the other is "pardoned". You can't pretend it is not the case.
>Read it and come back.
I go and do that, waste my time and return with the same question, since, you know smooth brain.
Not him, the visuals in the comic and a very large and important b-story in the comic ‘The Black Freighter’is patterned throughout the book to communicate to the reader Ozymandias’ full story and how his plan is utterly nonsensical, will not work at all and is driven by emotion turned insanity
This is lost in the movie because they had to cut out the Black Freighter plot for time (they included it in a dvd release but by then it was too late)
3 months ago
Anonymous
I mean his name is Ozymandius. Moore could have named him "Inthewrong Pointlessactions" and it wouldn't have been any less subtle.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Don't they choose their aliases themselves?
3 months ago
Anonymous
In-universe, yes (he did at least, there were various situations with superhero names). In reality, Moore chose them.
3 months ago
Anonymous
So to defend the idea of your narrative you employ the simplest first layer association, but fail to realize that the same association is most likely available to the character in the story?
3 months ago
Anonymous
It’s not. Veidt explains why he chose to name himself after Ramses, because he considered himself as world-changing as a pharaoh after he got high on drugs and heard oharaohs speaking to him in Egypt.
Without apparently realising the irony of using the poem about a pharaoh who achieved nothing permanent, because that is his biggest insecurity and the thing he wants most not to happen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Even in that the movie loses symbolism.
For example, Veidt going on his long backstory speech how he was inspired by historical dictators like Alexander and Hitler while going on a marijuana trip in Alexandria and hearing the ancient pharaohs telling him to be like them.
Then on Mars Laurie destroys the delicate and complex glass tower by throwing a bottle of Veidt’s Nostalgia at it, causing it to all come tumbling down.
Quite literally, Veidt’s misplaced commercialised sanitised Nostalgia for a time of Pharaohs is gonna bring the whole thing crashing down.
And then in the movie Laurie just punches it with her girlboss superstrength.
Ozymandias sure as frick isn't pardoned. He's going to live the rest of his life in his base in the middle of fricking nowhere, starving to death in the cold eventually. He burned all his bridges for his horrible plan. The fact that they're unwilling to cause even more death and misery by revealing the damn plan doesn't make them endorse it. Everyone says that it's a monstrous thing to do. Ozymandias simply manuevred them into a position where they can't stop it anymore.
3 months ago
Anonymous
He's not going to live his life in Antartica. He's already planning to return to the US to help bring about the new liberal order his terror attack is going to bring about.
And ironically, it's only the Watchmen '19 series where Adrian gets any sort of real comeupence as far as him being rejected by his commie liberal friends even before they find out that he blew up NYC and not allowed to rebuild the country into his left wing anti-white dictatorship dream world and ended up having to beg Manhattan to build him a gilded cage "prison" on a moon in space so he can avoid dealing with his bastard daughter created by a psycho asiatic fangirl who literally stole his sperm to impregnate herself.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Anon you are delusional if you think Ozymandias' attack is going to bring a liberal world order or that he's intending that at all.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Not him but yeah....the end of the book defintiely paints it as a neoliberal wet dream of a globalist culture. Like the left wing anti-white thing, I don't know if anon is just going schizo or if that's a show thing, but otherwise yeah Ozy is literally described as his public face being inoffensive not TOO progressive liberal who says all the right things. His ultimate plan is to destroy the cold war and unite everyone with him secretly guiding all significant cultural and economic factors from the shadows. He's literally the modern western ruling class sans the neo-con angle purely because that angle is outmoded by his terrorist squid.
Ozymandias is explicitly the villain of the story. You shouldn't even need to read the book or see the movie to understand this since every meme about Ozy is about him being a successful supervillain.
The film is utterly moronic, removing the octopus fricks over the entire story and Oymandias' plot. Blaming it all on Dr Manhattan points all of the world's weapons on the US, because an American just went rogue. The doomsday clock went from five to midnight into nuclear Armageddon just like that. If an Alien did it, all of the weapons point outwards because space Aliens by nature would have nothing to do with our politics. Snyder is a fricking idiot, almost as dumb as the guy that made
There seems to be a lot of this lately. Some people are clearly just stirring up shit, but a worrying number seem to have zero reading comprehension and actually believe this.
The absolute seething radiating from that picture is so silly. That is not remotely what Alan meant with the story, it feels like someone who got mad when he said you're not supposed to want to be a schizo like Rosarch made it
This somewhat made me feel better, I thought I was the most moronic person on the internet
I guess it is if you're a complete smoothbrain who thinks that the story is endorsing Ozymandias' actions.
>bro!!!! Those enforcers for a genocidal government that keeps people in squalor and misery and has an average life expectancy of 30 even in the best areas are totally the good guys!!!
Lol, lmao
Rorschach isn't a fascist. don't know where you got that Alan Moore wants you to hate him. He's not the villain of the story, he's on a protagonistic role. None of the superheroes are moral paragons, obviously, but if you think Moore wanted you to despise Rorschach you are delusional.
Moore didn't want you to think Rorscach was the bad guy just recognize his flaws, that's sort of why he gets so pissy. He put in a lot of work to make a layered and compelling character you got stuck on the "He has a cool costume and punches people that are probably buttholes" and to make matters worse now morons think "oh so you that means he thinks the mass murderer named "Hubristic Folly" is the good guy.
>I don't care what the author intended, I prefer my interpretation
That's fair, authors often don't convey their ideas as well as they might want to. Rorshach does come across as the most heroic spirit. >I am also going to blame the author for making the immoral claims that my interpretation says are being made by the story, even though I also already know what the author really meant
That's just dishonest, and also kind of twisted. How can you justify saying that Ozymandias is obviously wrong in the story, but at the same time make the claim that Moore is saying Ozymandias is right?
It's less the politics have aged poorly and more that Alan Moore might be a good writer, but he's so far deep in his kool-aid that he doesn't even comprehend other people don't share his views. He doesn't even comprehend that another human can exist that agrees with Rorschach so he just assumes they didn't get the story.
I just realized. From now on, there will always be a moron who will post this picture in every Watchmen discussion and then ruining the entire thread because people will fall for it.
So Ozymandias managed to also build the same machine that made Manhattan, and only used it on Manhattan.
Why did he never think to try to make himeslf into the same kind of creature? Seems like intelligence and knowing how to construct a body was the main hurdle, and the smartest man on Earth could not figure out what a mediocre 1950s scientist could?
It’s never explained, but I assume pure chance and personality is a big part of it. Manhattan’s consciousness survived by unexplainable miracle and it was part of his personality to piece himself back together, because he was a watchmaker’s son and that was his instinct. A surviving consciousness scattered into the ether may just not care about reforming anymore, it’s electric dust in the wind
Geoff Johns’ Doomsday Clock
Veidt creates Bubastishattan and uses her to fight Manhattan
It’s not spoken about much because it’s somehow one of the least moronic things in Doomsday Clock
3 months ago
Anonymous
This is so moronic, it looped back around to being magnificent.
Now I gotta go read Doomsday clock, holy kino
3 months ago
Anonymous
I wouldn’t recommend it, Doomsday Clock is legit incoherent. It starts drops half its plots halfway introduces then forgets cringe oc characters that were probably supposed to be important and just forgets what its own story was, it’s not even fun it’s bizarrely bad.
The cat being able to reconstruct itself is moronic. It worked with Jon because he had an obsession with taking apart clocks and putting them back together again, so he’d eventually figure out how to materialize his body and reconstruct it.
A cat doesn’t have the mental capacity to even think to do that.
It’s never explained, but I assume pure chance and personality is a big part of it. Manhattan’s consciousness survived by unexplainable miracle and it was part of his personality to piece himself back together, because he was a watchmaker’s son and that was his instinct. A surviving consciousness scattered into the ether may just not care about reforming anymore, it’s electric dust in the wind
>It’s never explained
It actually is. People tried a bunch of times to recreate what happened with Dr. Manhattan. Every single time, the person just disintegrated. No one in-universe has the faintest idea why it gave Manhattan superpowers, and eventually they stopped trying.
Best case he'd spend months in a hellish limbo trying to reassemble himself and from what he can see feel an immense disconnect from humanity that'd drive him away in a few decades. At worst he'd just jib himself
And ultimately that power doesn't factor into his plan.
He probably wouldn’t even be able to see or sense without eyes or nerves, it’d probably be something close to ego death. He struggles to think or retain his sense of self, he just experiences things like a drug trip or a stray particle. At that point it’s hard to hold on to your desire of being a glowy naked superhero
What happened to Manhattan was a miracle of probability, if Ozy could have used it on himself he would have but it only would have killed him, like Bubastis
Like, you do realize that he can't DO anything? Like, his actions are as predetermined as the hand at the end of your arm.
You're looking at time linearly, whereas he is cognizant of every moment in his existence simultaneously, and as such does not see them as different "times." He couldn't stop a bullet if he didn't stop a bullet.
Next time you fall out of bed, I want you to try missing the floor.
It’s true he can’t deviate from the timeline, but it’s interesting that his decisions are still informed by emotion. Like he stays on Mars because hearing Laurie cheated makes him sad, and comes back because he finds meaning in life. He knew he would do both of these actions beforehand but he still chose to do those actions not because of fate but because of the emotion others instilled in him. He doesn’t just see it beforehand and choose to fall in line, he acts emotionally.
So why didn’t he choose to save that woman, really? Maybe he was just desensitised to the violence after killing so many, or maybe he truly had stopped caring for human life at that point, or maybe he was still trying to play human by refusing to use his powers to stop the gun.
>his actions
There you go, those are his actions, the only difference between him and a human is that he knows of them before hand but they still reflect who he is and how he operates like they would do with a normal human being. Like Blake said, he could have stopped him, but he didn’t, because he would never have
He could have turned every nuclear weapon into puppies too, but he didn't.
He could have put the bomp in the bomp bomp bomp
No, Frankie Lymon beat him to it.
Why didn't he just put the whole world in a bottle?
He could have turned himself into a pickle.
>I'll call myself pickle, rorschach
Stopping someone else from dying? That would bring a semblance of meaning to Dr. Manhattan's life, and his entire character and MO are about having a meaningless 3deep5u existence
He could also put on underwear or give himself a bigger penis
>give himself a bigger penis
How do you know he did not
Have you read the comic, anon?
The politics of Watchmen aged poorly.
The absolute seething radiating from that picture is so silly. That is not remotely what Alan meant with the story, it feels like someone who got mad when he said you're not supposed to want to be a schizo like Rosarch made it
This somewhat made me feel better, I thought I was the most moronic person on the internet
I guess it is if you're a complete smoothbrain who thinks that the story is endorsing Ozymandias' actions.
>smoothbrain who thinks that the story is endorsing Ozymandias' actions.
I am stupid, and haven't read comic, but how else could the story be interpreted?
If you haven't read it, what makes you ask such a question? Read it and come back.
>what makes you ask such a question?
I have seen the film adaptation, wasn't the only meaningful change removal of octopus thing? And fine, there definitely will be small details and side stories, but the core is still the same.
One guy loses, the other wins. One is killed, the other is "pardoned". You can't pretend it is not the case.
>Read it and come back.
I go and do that, waste my time and return with the same question, since, you know smooth brain.
Not him, the visuals in the comic and a very large and important b-story in the comic ‘The Black Freighter’is patterned throughout the book to communicate to the reader Ozymandias’ full story and how his plan is utterly nonsensical, will not work at all and is driven by emotion turned insanity
This is lost in the movie because they had to cut out the Black Freighter plot for time (they included it in a dvd release but by then it was too late)
I mean his name is Ozymandius. Moore could have named him "Inthewrong Pointlessactions" and it wouldn't have been any less subtle.
Don't they choose their aliases themselves?
In-universe, yes (he did at least, there were various situations with superhero names). In reality, Moore chose them.
So to defend the idea of your narrative you employ the simplest first layer association, but fail to realize that the same association is most likely available to the character in the story?
It’s not. Veidt explains why he chose to name himself after Ramses, because he considered himself as world-changing as a pharaoh after he got high on drugs and heard oharaohs speaking to him in Egypt.
Without apparently realising the irony of using the poem about a pharaoh who achieved nothing permanent, because that is his biggest insecurity and the thing he wants most not to happen.
Even in that the movie loses symbolism.
For example, Veidt going on his long backstory speech how he was inspired by historical dictators like Alexander and Hitler while going on a marijuana trip in Alexandria and hearing the ancient pharaohs telling him to be like them.
Then on Mars Laurie destroys the delicate and complex glass tower by throwing a bottle of Veidt’s Nostalgia at it, causing it to all come tumbling down.
Quite literally, Veidt’s misplaced commercialised sanitised Nostalgia for a time of Pharaohs is gonna bring the whole thing crashing down.
And then in the movie Laurie just punches it with her girlboss superstrength.
Ozymandias sure as frick isn't pardoned. He's going to live the rest of his life in his base in the middle of fricking nowhere, starving to death in the cold eventually. He burned all his bridges for his horrible plan. The fact that they're unwilling to cause even more death and misery by revealing the damn plan doesn't make them endorse it. Everyone says that it's a monstrous thing to do. Ozymandias simply manuevred them into a position where they can't stop it anymore.
He's not going to live his life in Antartica. He's already planning to return to the US to help bring about the new liberal order his terror attack is going to bring about.
And ironically, it's only the Watchmen '19 series where Adrian gets any sort of real comeupence as far as him being rejected by his commie liberal friends even before they find out that he blew up NYC and not allowed to rebuild the country into his left wing anti-white dictatorship dream world and ended up having to beg Manhattan to build him a gilded cage "prison" on a moon in space so he can avoid dealing with his bastard daughter created by a psycho asiatic fangirl who literally stole his sperm to impregnate herself.
Anon you are delusional if you think Ozymandias' attack is going to bring a liberal world order or that he's intending that at all.
Not him but yeah....the end of the book defintiely paints it as a neoliberal wet dream of a globalist culture. Like the left wing anti-white thing, I don't know if anon is just going schizo or if that's a show thing, but otherwise yeah Ozy is literally described as his public face being inoffensive not TOO progressive liberal who says all the right things. His ultimate plan is to destroy the cold war and unite everyone with him secretly guiding all significant cultural and economic factors from the shadows. He's literally the modern western ruling class sans the neo-con angle purely because that angle is outmoded by his terrorist squid.
Ozymandias is explicitly the villain of the story. You shouldn't even need to read the book or see the movie to understand this since every meme about Ozy is about him being a successful supervillain.
The film is utterly moronic, removing the octopus fricks over the entire story and Oymandias' plot. Blaming it all on Dr Manhattan points all of the world's weapons on the US, because an American just went rogue. The doomsday clock went from five to midnight into nuclear Armageddon just like that. If an Alien did it, all of the weapons point outwards because space Aliens by nature would have nothing to do with our politics. Snyder is a fricking idiot, almost as dumb as the guy that made
There seems to be a lot of this lately. Some people are clearly just stirring up shit, but a worrying number seem to have zero reading comprehension and actually believe this.
Real brave of him not to endorse genocide.
>bro!!!! Those enforcers for a genocidal government that keeps people in squalor and misery and has an average life expectancy of 30 even in the best areas are totally the good guys!!!
Lol, lmao
Rorschach isn't a fascist. don't know where you got that Alan Moore wants you to hate him. He's not the villain of the story, he's on a protagonistic role. None of the superheroes are moral paragons, obviously, but if you think Moore wanted you to despise Rorschach you are delusional.
Literally every other faction is worse.
They are objectively the good guys.
Not really, Exodite and Craftworld Eldar are a thing. Tau as well.
>muh sterilizing
Literally unsourced speculation from an Imperial.
Moore didn't want you to think Rorscach was the bad guy just recognize his flaws, that's sort of why he gets so pissy. He put in a lot of work to make a layered and compelling character you got stuck on the "He has a cool costume and punches people that are probably buttholes" and to make matters worse now morons think "oh so you that means he thinks the mass murderer named "Hubristic Folly" is the good guy.
It's a dumb fricking comic. It doesn't have any real depth or sophistication, the genre and medium are incapable of it. Get real.
Death of the Author is moronic.
since Author was never alive
>literary anaylsis is composed solely of arguing what the author meant
>Literary analysis is built on a lie that allows critics to invent whatever bullshit interpretation thus giving them permanent job security
>I don't care what the author intended, I prefer my interpretation
That's fair, authors often don't convey their ideas as well as they might want to. Rorshach does come across as the most heroic spirit.
>I am also going to blame the author for making the immoral claims that my interpretation says are being made by the story, even though I also already know what the author really meant
That's just dishonest, and also kind of twisted. How can you justify saying that Ozymandias is obviously wrong in the story, but at the same time make the claim that Moore is saying Ozymandias is right?
You can have a subjective opinion of the objective reality of those factions.
It's less the politics have aged poorly and more that Alan Moore might be a good writer, but he's so far deep in his kool-aid that he doesn't even comprehend other people don't share his views. He doesn't even comprehend that another human can exist that agrees with Rorschach so he just assumes they didn't get the story.
To be fair, all discourse on the subject seems to prove his assumption completely right.
very indirectly anti-Semitic tweet
I just realized. From now on, there will always be a moron who will post this picture in every Watchmen discussion and then ruining the entire thread because people will fall for it.
He could have given people cancer then turn into a car
So Ozymandias managed to also build the same machine that made Manhattan, and only used it on Manhattan.
Why did he never think to try to make himeslf into the same kind of creature? Seems like intelligence and knowing how to construct a body was the main hurdle, and the smartest man on Earth could not figure out what a mediocre 1950s scientist could?
It’s never explained, but I assume pure chance and personality is a big part of it. Manhattan’s consciousness survived by unexplainable miracle and it was part of his personality to piece himself back together, because he was a watchmaker’s son and that was his instinct. A surviving consciousness scattered into the ether may just not care about reforming anymore, it’s electric dust in the wind
Then Batman did it and succeeded
I still want to see a joke comic about Bubastis turning herself into a god-cat after Veidt obliterated her in the subtrinsic field extractor
>he doesn’t know
First watchmen thread I've been in this was brought up, what the shit is this from
Geoff Johns’ Doomsday Clock
Veidt creates Bubastishattan and uses her to fight Manhattan
It’s not spoken about much because it’s somehow one of the least moronic things in Doomsday Clock
This is so moronic, it looped back around to being magnificent.
Now I gotta go read Doomsday clock, holy kino
I wouldn’t recommend it, Doomsday Clock is legit incoherent. It starts drops half its plots halfway introduces then forgets cringe oc characters that were probably supposed to be important and just forgets what its own story was, it’s not even fun it’s bizarrely bad.
>Joker just randomly inserted into the background
The cat being able to reconstruct itself is moronic. It worked with Jon because he had an obsession with taking apart clocks and putting them back together again, so he’d eventually figure out how to materialize his body and reconstruct it.
A cat doesn’t have the mental capacity to even think to do that.
It was a really smart cat who loves reconstructing clocks and stealing Veidt’s lasagna
>It’s never explained
It actually is. People tried a bunch of times to recreate what happened with Dr. Manhattan. Every single time, the person just disintegrated. No one in-universe has the faintest idea why it gave Manhattan superpowers, and eventually they stopped trying.
That was never said, anywhere, in any chapter or side. I have no idea where you’re getting that from.
Best case he'd spend months in a hellish limbo trying to reassemble himself and from what he can see feel an immense disconnect from humanity that'd drive him away in a few decades. At worst he'd just jib himself
And ultimately that power doesn't factor into his plan.
He probably wouldn’t even be able to see or sense without eyes or nerves, it’d probably be something close to ego death. He struggles to think or retain his sense of self, he just experiences things like a drug trip or a stray particle. At that point it’s hard to hold on to your desire of being a glowy naked superhero
What happened to Manhattan was a miracle of probability, if Ozy could have used it on himself he would have but it only would have killed him, like Bubastis
Like, you do realize that he can't DO anything? Like, his actions are as predetermined as the hand at the end of your arm.
You're looking at time linearly, whereas he is cognizant of every moment in his existence simultaneously, and as such does not see them as different "times." He couldn't stop a bullet if he didn't stop a bullet.
Next time you fall out of bed, I want you to try missing the floor.
It’s true he can’t deviate from the timeline, but it’s interesting that his decisions are still informed by emotion. Like he stays on Mars because hearing Laurie cheated makes him sad, and comes back because he finds meaning in life. He knew he would do both of these actions beforehand but he still chose to do those actions not because of fate but because of the emotion others instilled in him. He doesn’t just see it beforehand and choose to fall in line, he acts emotionally.
So why didn’t he choose to save that woman, really? Maybe he was just desensitised to the violence after killing so many, or maybe he truly had stopped caring for human life at that point, or maybe he was still trying to play human by refusing to use his powers to stop the gun.
>his actions
There you go, those are his actions, the only difference between him and a human is that he knows of them before hand but they still reflect who he is and how he operates like they would do with a normal human being. Like Blake said, he could have stopped him, but he didn’t, because he would never have
What if he didnt want to. Because if he stopped it, he knew the future would be worse than if he didnt?
He could have put the seat down.