He was unironically right why is Cinemaphile reeeing over him?
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He was unironically right why is?
He was unironically right why is Cinemaphile reeeing over him?
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Because the sequel will prove him wrong and make every spidey part of the cult look like giant a-holes.
Gwen was literally about to let someone die. Spectacular is okay with it. Be ready for total character assassination across the board.
>Because the sequel will prove him wrong and make every spidey part of the cult look like giant a-holes.
It's the opposite
the whole point of this is to show how even rational and benevolent people can be suckered into cults if the leader and the message are the right one for them.
It's not like they're getting brought in by some 70s preacher who is located out of Brazil. They're getting recruited by alternate versions of themselves.
And, if they're anything like Miles or Gwen, they feel a bit isolated and disconnected from everyone else who doesn't know they're a super hero, and are still grappling with their losses.
The point of the spider-cult is it's a sort of clever inversion of the (mostly) shared experiences among spider-people which helps them cope with the negative experiences with the promise of positive ones down the road.
Universe 42 doesn't even have a spider-man. That, alone, should be proof enough that Miguel is just gaslighting himself into thinking that his adopted universe disintegrated because of "The Canon" and not something else unrelated to Spider-man
None of that shit you typed matters because it's fricking SPIDER-MAN
Yeah obviously Peter has always had his "vulnerable" moments where he considered the bleaker option to something but he ALWAYS chose the right option even if it was harder
Having literally every other Spider-Person just be cool with it is fricking moronic and goes against Spider-Man's whole modus operandi as a hero
They should've just had it so that there were factions of Spider-People that were okay and not okay and you can justify it as "Well they came from so and so dimension where this and that happened so it makes sense that they're like that"
But no literally every single one is just cool with letting people, even the ones that were there to help Miles that never showed any inkling of feeling this way in the first movie. It's just horrible shitty writing that got a pass just because fanservice and pretty pictures
tl:dr none of what you said can't apply to Spider-Man and they still did it in the most moronic, non-sensical way and it makes the movie worse no matter how the visuals and fanservice are
Frick you, frick this movie, yes I'm mad
>but he ALWAYS chose the right option even if it was harder
That's factually untrue
He often did but not always. It's his failings balanced with his moral triumphs that make him relatable.
Raimi's second Spiderman movie is most memorable specifically because Peter quits being spider-man to focus on his personal life, at the expense of the safety and lives of other people in the city. He gets his shit together and chooses to be spider-man again but that's only after things get out of hand and he can't ignore his calling.
You act like this movie is saying all other spider-people except for Miles are evil but it's literally not that. First off, it's not even all others. Second, They've been brainwashed by one of their own, their own shared experiences and desire to protect others being twisted into a death cult that justifies the losses they've suffered as being a stepping stone to creating stronger heroes. It's good people acting on a corrupted morality, not a lack of one.
And Miles isn't being heroic here, he's trying to save his father out of selfishness. He only gets mad about the idea of Canon events after he finds out that his father is going to die after being made Captain. He doesn't really object to the idea that a family member has to die because he's already suffered through that experience, the first movie even makes a point of how the other spider-men/women understand what he's going through after his uncle dies
>Second, They've been brainwashed by one of their own, their own shared experiences and desire to protect others being twisted into a death cult that justifies the losses
You know what writers who aren't shit would've done? Have them all work together to look for a way of saving everyone instead of just going "it has to be this way". They have an infinite pool of scientific genius with access to fricking time travel and literal wizards.
Miles being an outlier in this scenario shits on every Spider-man in the multiverse
>Miles being an outlier in this scenario shits on every Spider-man in the multiverse
No, because it's very clear that Miles is just afraid of losing his dad in the near term. THAT is what is making him try to escape, not an ideological stance but the panic of losing a loved one in the near term
For what it's worth, it's not just Miles. Pavitr is already a part of the society and likely knows the Canon but when push comes to shove, he overtly states he wants to try to save both his girlfriend and the Captain.
The point is that most spider-men are trying to handle their own dimension's issues, and when you're faced with those situations on your own, the outcome will be the same every time (or so Miguel and the "Canon" algorithm imply).
It's only with outside interference that you can change things (it's not even clear that Miles can protect his dad and others at the same time).
Moreover, remember that most of these spider-men are usually in their home dimensions handling the crime that occurs. The idea that they'd drop everything to stop this event that has already happened to most of them (and most would argue was a big part of their personal development) is a bit close minded, no? You're pretending like these spider-men don't have other crimes and villains to stop back on their home turfs, like they just hang around spider-society all day and watch new Uncle Bens get killed
If anything, it more seems that most of Spider-society has already gone through these major events and are buying a doctrine that helps them deal with it in retrospect. Miles isn't an outlier because of morality, he's an outlier because he hasn't had all the worst shit happen to him yet
>Spider-Man would only try to save people if they're his close relatives
How fricking moronic are you to be defending such moronic writing decisions
> Miles is just afraid of losing his dad in the near term.
Spider-man would care that an innocent life would end from a preventable event. He would go out of his way to save them that's what makes him Spider-man. Fight the odds to save the little guy.
even family guy got spider-man right
>"everybody gets one"
>Spider-man would care that an innocent life would end from a preventable event. He would go out of his way to save them that's what makes him Spider-man. Fight the odds to save the little guy.
Yes but Spider-man also chooses to put the greater good over their personal wants.
Or, to put it another way, do you think everyone would stop fighting crime in their home dimensions just to go pick up the slack on a spider-man in another dimension and save their Uncle-Ben figure?
I think Miguel and Peter B both offer different angles of this. Peter B sees all the good that comes from Spider-man's presence in a dimension as being the direct result of the painful canon events (and I'd sort of agree with that, for Uncle Ben's death at least).
Miguel takes it from the angle of his Canon Event theory where he thinks that diverging from this path will cause everything to collapse (probably just cope on his part but he probably believes it a little).
The point I'm trying to make here is that most spider-men probably see these deaths as part of who they are and of why they fight crime as hard as they do. It's become mythologized as part of who they are as people.
>If that’s the case then why are they in a giant cult all about helping one another?
They only help each other out if it's due to someone crossing over from another dimension. That's 99% of what they do, they have such a huge backlog of people to transport using the Go Home Machine that they pass by cages and cages of entities from other dimensions
>No Way Home had its issues, but at least it showed Spideys how they should be: Find a solution to the problem, even when it hurts or it means helping someone you hate.
That's probably why none of them showed up, even though I'm sure Garfield or Maguire would have if they were asked and paid.
There's a good chance they'd have told Miguel to frick off
>Yes but Spider-man also chooses to put the greater good over their personal wants.
>Hey Peter if you don't rape Aunt may the universe will blow up.
Now do you think Peter will either
1- Try and figure out why the frick will the universe implode if one event doesn't take place, and look for a way to avoid both terrible events
2-Just go with it and ask no questions to why this contrivance exists
>2-Just go with it and ask no questions
Why do you think there were no questions? If there were no questions then why did Miguel have a fricking Power Point presentation ready to go?
>Why do you think there were no questions?
Because Miguel and Peter(s) would just let Miles help them try and solve both problems if they did question the dumbassery of the universe exploding because a cop lived.
He'll try to figure it out and try to solve the issue and, if he runs out of time, he'll just do it.
But that's not this situation.
The critical thing here is less the Canon Event but more Peter B's argument
>Without Uncle Ben, most of us wouldn't be here
The point is that (and Earth 42 proves this) without someone taking up the mantle of spider-man, things get much much worse for a given world since there isn't someone driven to fight crime like they would.
That's something most spider-man stories keep consistent: the death of an Uncle-Ben figure is what drives them to fight crime and save other people. They're a bit like Batman in that way. Without that pivotal event, they just wouldn't pick up the responsibility of fighting crime and saving others, at least not to the degree of determination that they do.
>You keep pulling this cope as if there's no better way to make this point than to write several versions of Peter Parker out of character.
I contest whether this is out of character because it seems perfectly in character, at least based on the old and some newer spiderman comics I've read.
Peter tries to do what's right but that compass is not always clear. I use the Civil War example but the entire point of the Venom Symbiote suit arc he went through was that it was amplifying his existing emotions, not inventing new feelings. And as fricked as OMD is, it's still a canon part of who peter is and has been ever since and he chose to sacrifice his marriage and future daughter to Mephistopheles instead of "figuring out a solution"
Do not give me this idea that Spider-man should have some Batman+Preptime invincibility to bad decision making or letting his emotions get the better of him, especially when the person trying to persuade him is an alternate-universe version of himself.
>But that's not this situation.
It’s the exact same situation. From what we’ve seen, no one questions any of this and no one thinks “Let’s research a solution.”
The entire context would’ve changed if they emphasized how the Spiders are actively trying to find out the issue, but Miles’ event is too soon for them to save his universe because they’re trying to figure it out so they’re uncertain the route to go.
Instead all we see is “Let them die and bandage the wound”.
What I don’t get too is that India’s world is still intact. Will it be gone next movie? If not this is all for nothing.
>What I don’t get too is that India’s world is still intact. Will it be gone next movie? If not this is all for nothing.
There's so many plot holes and inconsistencies it's not even funny
> The point is that most spider-men are trying to handle their own dimension's issues, and when you're faced with those situations on your own, the outcome will be the same every time (or so Miguel and the "Canon" algorithm imply).
If that’s the case then why are they in a giant cult all about helping one another? Yet all these Spiders, many of them scientists, never actually tried to look for solutions besides “trust me bro”?
No Way Home had its issues, but at least it showed Spideys how they should be: Find a solution to the problem, even when it hurts or it means helping someone you hate.
>No Way Home had its issues, but at least it showed Spideys how they should be: Find a solution to the problem, even when it hurts or it means helping someone you hate.
This, i dont like NWH as it feels more like an event more then a film
but it does the whole multiverse aspect so much better, and actually feels like a spiderman movie (kinda)
Everyone acted in character and made reasonable decisions
Across doesnt even feel like spiderman, no spiderman except for those in Miles small group, act like spiderman
It kinda makes me sad
>It's his failings balanced with his moral triumphs that make him relatable.
Except he was never faced with a situation where he'd let someone die instead of finding another way. If someone dies, it was always because of their hubris
>Raimi's second Spiderman movie is most memorable specifically because Peter quits being spider-man to focus on his personal life, at the expense of the safety and lives of other people in the city. He gets his shit together and chooses to be spider-man again but that's only after things get out of hand and he can't ignore his calling.
Fair enough but even so it's a much more personal move on his part rather than some literally universe-shattering decision though. Even at his lowest, Peter would never just let someone's father just die just because some butthole told him he had to for le greater good bullshit because he's met FRICKING VILLAINS with the same mindset
>You act like this movie is saying all other spider-people except for Miles are evil but it's literally not that
Yes it was they only side with Miles AFTER he says it's insane that they would even allow it to happen instead of figuring out another way so it makes it seem like he was the only Spider-Person to think of it which is fricking stupid
>They've been brainwashed by one of their own, their own shared experiences and desire to protect others being twisted into a death cult that justifies the losses they've suffered as being a stepping stone to creating stronger heroes.
Again this doesn't work because it's one thing to give in to insecurities, it's another when said insecurities lead to you apparently being okay with murder which Spider-Man would never do even at his worst
Miles's upset that the other Spider-People are literally telling him "It has to happen just let your dad die" instead of thinking of something else like Spider-Man always does. It's just bad writing that has to make Spider-Man not act like Spider-Man for it to work
You keep pulling this cope as if there's no better way to make this point than to write several versions of Peter Parker out of character.
Even at his lowest, doing shit like babbling about how he's "THE SPIDER", he doesn't stoop to this shit.
This sounds like such a stupid fricking idea for a Spider-Man movie. I'm happy it's not real.
They character assassinated him so bad it was almost comical.
>All his snark is gone and he’s just super serious and a sick.
>His proof to Miles that he can’t save someone and the universe wasn’t that he tried to save someone too. It was that he took over a dead person’s life and got billions killed for it instead of trying to do anything remotely heroic.
>The guy who was the result of a genetic mistake (albeit designed by a villain) and in the comics stood up for the misfortunes tells someone else they don’t belong anywhere and they’re shit because they’re different
>He and a whole army of Spider-Men got beaten by Miles
They couldn’t have shit on him harder if he tried
I mean I know the film shits on him with the meta UR NOT SPIDERMAN YOUNG BLACK MAN stuff, but so far the film did nothing to prove him wrong about disrupting canon events being bad.
It's like we're supposed to hate him for not being the protagonist without his concern being addressed
But they'll all be wrong by virtue of Miles having to be right.
Miles’ entire universe, Earth-42 and Peter B are all things that prove Miguel wrong.
Based on him, Miles even being bitten was an event that went against canon as his Peter wasn’t supposed to die and would have stopped the particle collider. So everything of the first movie goes against the canon. And despite going against the canon for over a year, nothing has happened.
Similarly, that spider was supposed to bite someone there who would become Spider-Man yet because it was pulled away, that event never happened yet, while being crime infested, it didn’t collapse.
Finally you have Peter B whose positive changes in life are attributed to having been pulled into 1610. But since that event was never supposed to happen due to 1610 Peter stopping it, it stands to reason that Peter B’s improved trajectory also goes against the canon.
However, none of these realities collapsed despite such massive deviations kinda disproving Miguel. If anything, it shows what could have happened had Fisk succeeded in the first movie since Miguel tried to live as an outsider in another universe while Fisk was trying to pull outsiders into 1610
>All his snark is gone
He literally bantered with everyone.
is this guy really Miguel o'Hara? Was he always a vampire? Are we sure he isn't Morlun?
>Was he always a vampire? Are we sure he isn't Morlun?
W-What? He's had fangs since his inception, wtf are you on? Do you homosexuals even read comics?
he has fangs because thats like a spider bite thing that secretes venom or some shit like that. Or maybe he's actually a vampire and he's out hunting spider totems
Talking isn’t banter anon. He’s even referred to in-movie as a Spider that doesn’t joke.
>>All his snark is gone and he’s just super serious and a sick.
Didn't he witness the destruction of his universe? That could be a reason for why he's serious.
>his universe
You mean the universe where he took over a dead man’s life and killed billions? Boy, what a fricking hero.
They were, Trillions actually.
Also did all of the Villains in the collider fight die or what? They don't show up anywhere and they've been good filler for Miles.
Miguel did seem more cheerful in ITSV's Post credit. I think there's something about his backstory we don't know.
Why does Miles canon even matter when the dead Spider-Man already went through his?
Because it’s designed to make Peter look as bad as possible. Hence why miles can
ONLY exist in world where peter dies young
What I took from that is that Miles is a mistake though? Because original Peter had to die for his existence. And this entire mistake stemmed from the spider, it wasn't like Miles asked to be bitten.
The writer of miles ended the ten year story he had with peter for miles, whatever implication the movie makes is irrelevant. That’s the purpose of the character, an “improvement” rather than someone who was drawn into the story. Hence why I hate him and his creator
>What I took from that is that Miles is a mistake though? Because original Peter had to die for his existence.
So Miles was meant to be a Spider-man but not the main Miles cause there was already one. It was supposed to be Prowler Miles?
and he turned evil and to the Prowler because he never got bitten to become Spider-man
>Because it’s designed to make Peter look as bad as possible.
Honestly this, the character assassination they do to Peter is honestly disgusting
>Poor miserable wreck in the first film
>Coping over MJ divorce, acts like a dorky loser
>needs to be hyped up by a fricking 15 year old to get his life straight and go to MJ
Second film
>Works with 2099 spiderman
>probably has killed who knows how many captains and uncle bens
>is less of a pathetic wreck, more of an embarrassing dad
>still cant respect him because he was somewhat helping 2099
>brings his daughter into a dangerous thousand person chase through the sky instead of not endangering her so he is also just a bad father
Peter B is just so fricking sad, guarantee he will die in the next film
>guarantee he will die in the next film
I mean, is this even a question?
Death flags are everywhere
he's not dying until mayday gets older
They're not killing Peter B in the sequel, that'd be redundant
They already did it first film
Sorry bud, Mentor characters always always die
Peter B barely had anything to do in this film anyways, theres not anything else for him to do except die, pass the torch and say
"Miles.. Miles Morales... from Into the Spiderverse and Spiderman 1 and 2 for ps4 and ps5"
"You.. ARE spiderman"
"bleh"
moron
Kek, sorry you cant handle the truth
when they mirror Peters A death beat for beat in Beyond the spiderverse with Peter B, I want 15 bucks sent directly to my paypal account
They also already told miles owning being Spider-Man in the first one. Face it the story of miles canon NEEDS pete to die, it’s the only logical conclusion to the story, anything else is a literal b***h cop out
>acts like a dorky loser
Because he was in a state of arrested development where he didn't have the courage to move forward to the next phase of his life.
I don't get why it's so difficult for people to think that Peter will have new issues as his life goes on. He'll have setbacks and rough periods and need help from his friends to get back up some times
>probably has killed who knows how many captains and uncle bens
This is literally not what they're doing. The whole implication is that those things happen on their own (without outside intervention or fore-knowledge of their occurrence).
The main thing spider-society people do is take accidental dimension travelers back to their home dimensions
>more of an embarrassing dad
That's fine, I'd think
>still cant respect him because he was somewhat helping 2099
Remember, his main task for the Spider Society is just grabbing interdimensional invaders, not killing innocent people
>The main thing spider-society people do is take accidental dimension travelers back to their home dimensions
>Remember, his main task for the Spider Society is just grabbing interdimensional invaders, not killing innocent people
The implication is theyre standing aside and letting death happen or stopping people from saving theyre own uncle bens and captains, which is just as bad as murder
And if we're talking implications, how do you think they fix the canon when an Uncle Ben or Captain lives? Just pop them out of there?
Im telling you, Gwen has personally slaughtered Uncle Bens a few times
>said he'd let uncle Ben die
>said he only had kids because Miles inspired him
So fricking sad they let white guilt kill one of the best comics characters ever
>said he'd let uncle Ben die
No, he said he agreed that Uncle Ben's death was what inspired him to be Spider-Man. That's consistent.
>"The... the version of Spidey from da movies who admitted that his wife wanted kids but he was too scared wasn't like da version frum da comics!!!"
Who cares, Black person?
No, Miles asked him if he would save Ben if he could and Peter didn't say hell yes I fricking would where do I sign up
He agreed with Miguel, that is.
Miles asked him about his uncle, but it's not like he could just go back and fix it. He's looking at things for what they are.
>a Spider-Man misses Miles with the webs
>hits another Spider, and that Spider is now out for the count
It's an analogy, dumbass.
its a shitty analogy, if one of them got miles, its done deal, out of how many spider-man. they could just help the one that got webbed out of it
>they could just help the one that got webbed out of it
Yeah, but that gives the escapee time to... ESCAPE.
do you not understand just how many spider-man was there
all of them would just look away? or i guess your under the impression that all the spider-man were moronic, which i guess is fair, they all acted moronic
No, I'm saying that they probably wouldn't web him unless they were sure they had a clear shot. And even then, if they all web him at once, their webs would become tangled.
Here's a better metaphor. The police are trying to catch a perp driving along the highway. There's a dozen cars pursuing, and the cops are trying to close the perp off with a tire strip. If the perp manages to swerve around the strip, all the cop cars might run into it.
or you know they actually showed him being held down. sooooo. clear shot.
>clear shot
>ten people holding him at once
No. No it's not.
spider-man been known to web people up close. i feel like im talking to a moron
oh no
he can't breathe
ASAB
Ha. Was going through some damaged comics from an old shop I was sorting in my garage. The one where MJ tells Peter the news was one of them I looked through.
>character where the joke is that he's a way worse has-been version of the same character
>arc is that he comes to terms with his problems and learns to connect with people again through mentoring
>"muh character assassination"
Did we watch the same movie? Why are you like this?
Worse. Peter B cheats on MJ with Miles' alternate widowed mom. You know the b***h is going to jump him.
>guarantee he will die in the next film
Hobey will die and they'll paint a mural of him. Dude's a saint and was the only one who could come close to taking down Spot.
Why even bother dressing up like Superman if you're going to wear a big hoodie over the costume
miles straight up asks him if he's really spider-man. that was them dropping a hint that it's not really miguel
it is -A- Miguel
just like Prowler Miles is -A- Miles
This might not be /our/ Miguel or one we like.
Frick you. That is my copium and I am gonna huff it.
Worst of all, there was literally zero reason to tell Miles his dad will die, none, just send him home and let him deal with the consequences, if it's fated then the dad dies anyway
Yeah, I get they need to make him an antagonist, but they could have ether made him charismatic enough to conceivably get other Spiders to do whatever her wants, or made him enough of a threat where he's serious opposition for Miles.
Instead he just seems tired and reckless and isn't even on Miles' level anyway. He's just 'bad' in every way. Bad attitude, bad planning, bad at fighting etc.
They assassinated the character of every Spider-man that was part of that moronic cult. It's such a stupid fricking idea that I believe it was only made as a strawman to make Miles look better.
This. Character assassination of every Spider-Man and woman to make their forced token look better
Right according to what, a broken premise for a movie?
>NOOOOOO if you save your dad the universe will die
Awful nihilistic godless cosmology that uplifts tragedy as "an important part of your life" instead of good. If Christians were allowed to work in Los Angeles animation this movie would have never been made, at least in this form, as I made a much better draft of it.
lol there so many christians in los angeles, chris pratt is getting work left and right
troll harder
Is a Multiverse of Chris Pratts involved
uhhh aren't Christians all about how suffering and sacrifice are good things and part of "God's plan"
Maybe that's what you would say after hearing Christianity through a telephone game of weakening Protestants
In this movie Uncle Ben dying isn't even bad because it's necessary to the Multiverse, there's nothing to learn from him, nothing to fix, it's a comforting vision for non-believers where they don't need to improve themselves even across an entire Multiverse, all their decisions are fine and none of their alternates are doing better
>muh protestants
Catholic priests rape boys and the Pope covers for them.
You're just changing the topic from how bad this movie entertains young boys
I think two and a half hours is enough time to say he's wrong in the first movie
Why say something when you can show it?
>as I made a much better draft of it.
>it's guy
You should post it. The one thing that may unite how this board feels about this movie, is a funny shitty guy draft.
Reeing about what precisely?, I only see posts simping abouth gwen, peni, miles mother or the female versions of spiderman.
I wish it was all simping for spider-waifus like you think it is right now.
>I only see what I want to see, those threads where Cinemaphile b***hes about the plot don't exist.
>NOOOOOO don't criticize the massive corporate movie that's getting a lot of praise
Can't wait to topple this status quo for animation
Honestly biggest change I'd make in the film would be to cut down the size of the headquarters to maybe 50 or so spidermen.
A bit easier to believe they were indoctrinated into Miguel's way of thinking than knowing that thousands (?) of spider people all being on his side. As is, it almost makes the concept of being a spiderman a bit too antagonistic.
Also would make more sense that there isn't a single other Miles Morales.
The movie would be better if it didn't try to combine the Spot and Spider-verse thing since it didn't deliver a conclusion to those plots until we get it next year. Keep the jokey Spot in the movie but the focus is on the anomaly happening between the spider-verse. Have the conflict of them figuring out what's causing it. The factions happen because they can't all unite under why it's happening and the solution to it causing infighting. Spot is revealed at the end to be it as he is starting to grow stronger. 3rd movie is trying to stop Spot from growing stronger with different factions doing their own things to prevent it. A pre-fight with Spot forces the several spider-man characters to be split up and sent to different worlds and they are trying to get together to defeat Spot at the final event where he tries to kill Miles dad. I think this would fix a lot of the issue where the 2nd movie feels more like setup for the 3rd movie instead of events happening logically in a sequence of events.
Or make most of them in dark about cannon. Indian spiderman don't know about this. Let it reveal when miles was captured. Some we can make half of spiderman support and other oppose. And let chaos happen.
Actually this is a good idea
Honestly as much as I already like the Spider-man chase that we got, that would’ve been cool
>I already like the Spider-man chase
the one where the spider-man forgot to web miles up, especially when he was in the choke hold?
You know what kind of chance you have when you're surrounded by 1,000 people with pistols?
A pretty decent one. One of them misses you, and bam, that's one out of commission that you don't have to deal with. See what I mean? Sometimes, strength isn't in numbers.
>pistol
they use web shooters anon
>cut down the size of the headquarters to maybe 50 or so spidermen
Yeah. They tried to make a giant splash a d a big budget look, but it just cheapens the Spider people you do have. They wanted "OMG I know that reference", but it really takes the air out of the characters. They could have just as well had their references jumping through different worlds insgead of crowding everyone in a hub world.
They even had that Spider-woman OC from the overcrowded recent Spider-verse comics.
Between this, Doctor Strange 2, and thr Flash movie at DC; this overdose of multiverse shit is gonna burn out both casuals and fans real fast.
The multiverse is always a shit concept in fiction. Going to be great if people become burned out by it.
He exists in a franchise where interdimensional gods reshape the multiverse weekly. If fate is fricking you over change fate, it really ain't that complicated, epically seeing as the MCU is canon to the movie as well.
I actually saw some people on twitter coping by saying that the mcu isn’t canon
>Twitter
Who gives a shit. If Venom is canon to the movie then the MCU is canon too.
Didn’t they also have a live action donald glover as prowler just to tease for the mcu?
They literally reference that version of Peter in the movie. So the buffs the infinite gauntlet got in the What If series would also carry over. They basically just need an infinity gauntlet set and they'd be able to do damage on a multiversal scale.
Daily reminder that all Uncle Bens and Capitan Staceys had it coming.
You can't be spiderman without a dead relative or mentor
Heroism is ENTIRELY locked behind being traumatized to ever being able to justify killing someone OR someone unintentionally dying to dedicate you to an endless cause anon. Never consider yourself, only consider the health of the brand
exactly, heroism can never come from the heart
If uncle ben hadn't died, then peter would have never learned about responsability
>If uncle ben hadn't died, then peter would have never learned about responsability
and they immediately contradict this premise of theirs at the end with Earth-42 Miles
>spider totems
the canon event premise made me think of police captain totems and that's a fricking dumb premise
What about the balls? Can I be a hero powered by lust?
Why? I thought uncle Ben is a good mentor.
why didn't he go stop The Spot himself, if he knew the original source of the multiverse anomalies
why do the other Spideys keep following him, even after he destroyed a universe LARPing as daddy despite knowing the dangers
why do Canon Events have to be singular moments, wouldn't killing/etc. ____ later on satisfy the requirements
>shows uncle bens death as a canon event
>gwen thinks her dad quitting the force changes canon
How the frick is any of this logical? Why can someone quitting their job not jeopardize an entire world but pushing someone out of the way of a rock does?
The writers are obviously ideologically biased and have obviously wrote themselves into a ditch because of it. They want their cake and they want to eat is as well.
The plot revolves around a very specific event that rarely ever happens in spidey media which they had to retcon every spidey into having as well as make every spidey act out of character just to make this plot work, trying to make sense of this plot in any way after thinking about it for more than a minute is impossible
I think those specific events are varied from spider person to spider person (Miguel even said some stories range from good, bad, and very bad).
Considering the movie suggests Miles and Gwen are the same with them both losing Peter and their "dads", it makes sense while other spider people will go through something different as their canon event. I imagine this spider canon is mostly out of paranoia and bias towards Miles being an anomaly and Miguel has been holding that position for a year so you can guarantee the pressure has gotten to him.
>The plot revolves around a very specific event that rarely ever happens in spidey media which they had to retcon every spidey into having
No, I don't think they're even going to do that.
They showed all the ones that have happened but I wager the sequel is going to show that the algorithm was ignoring so many counter-evidence that it created an overly stringent idea of what must happen.
I think it's obvious the entire idea of the 'Canon' is going to be shown to be bunk and not real. It's just Miguel coping for how his adopt-a-dimension blew up
If that’s the case, then they’ll be taking an even bigger shit on his character.
Because the writers were too focused on patting themselves on the back for being clever without actually looking at how stupid and even incorrect their concept was.
I don’t get why it couldn’t have just been a movie about Miles chasing Spot across all sorts of multiverses. Then if you NEED a part 2, end it with him making a multiverse Sinister 6 or even a rogue army.
You should see reillyfans. They're unironically chimping out over his depiction
>2099 b***hes that 2 spider-men can't exist in the same universe at the same time
>the edgy clone is fine though
lol
lmao
>2099 b***hes that 2 spider-men can't exist in the same universe at the same time
That didn't happen, otherwise the home base of Nueva York would present a problem.
>non-stop shit on for the past 6 or so years in the comics
>straight up told he is not allowed to exist as a hero because Miles needs a pass
>see ATSV as a reprieve from the non-stop shit to give Ben some love
>he's completely mischaracterised to the point where he is literally the opposite of his actual purpose because lol 90s was edgy
>his mere existence pokes holes in the already flimsy plot due to him being a clone
>shitload of missed potential surrounding him being a clone
>then to top it all of he jobs to Gwen so he can be swiftly removed from the movie
>only redeeming feature is how good his costume looks, and even then the model for his head sticks out like a sore thumb due to the shading clashes (plus his emo hair is moronic)
There's nothing for a Ben fan to be happy about here
If it makes you feel any better, with how culture is shifting and how tired people are of both the multiverse and comic book films, miles and the spiderverse as a whole will probably go away in a few years, at least for a while and probably receive the same amount of hatred as ben and the clone saga have for a decade or two
I severely doubt it. Literally the only hope is that a last jedi situation happens where after people sit and think about the story some more they realise how moronic it all was.
The difference between this and Clone Saga is also that the Clone Saga went for two years and people disliked it by the end whereas this has been going on for nearly 10 years and people still lap it up
There was no point in explaining to Miles how canon events work except wanting to see him regret his actions and hating that he might be the source of the anomalies. Just send him home with no way of leaving, and bench Gwen for her numerous frick ups. Powered up Spot kills his dad because Miles can't 1v1 him at that point and Miles might not survive. Either way you can focus on the anomalies and the problem presented by Miles is solved.
Miles fricking sucks. These guys need to learn how to promote their new mary sues without shitting all over everyone else.
>new
>Miles debuted 12 years ago
Obtuse nerd.
>debuted 12 years ago
>nothing of note has happened with him in that time
>he still has no character-defining or even generally good stories
We all know comics just exist to inspire side media
Do you really think anyone cares about fricking Krakoa for the X-Men or Pete's constant cucking? Frick no, the comics are just the idea pools better writers and creatives use.
just waiting for the mega
YOU WILL NEVER BE SPIDER-MAN MILES
I loved this scene
why did he kept getting so close to his face?
Creepy vampire shit
I disagree with a bunch of the film, but Miles feeling betrayed by Pete and Gwen was well done. The dismissal in his eyes when he says "bye gwen" here is great.
Shame it's predicated on making Peter and Gwen into cold-hearted psychopaths
Being misled into thinking their reality will collapse on itself unless they let a specific moment happen is not being a cold-blooded psycopath. Does everyone here assume Kirk and Spock are psychopaths too for having to let a certain woman in the past die so the future butterfly effects correctly?
Anyways, who has the mega?
So why did they specifically choose to ruin Miguel? Is it because he's actual cool minority spider-man and doesn't need a push?
No Anon,
All other spidermen are bad or stupid
Miles is the spiderman
>All other spidermen are bad or stupid
>getting brought into a cult because you feel isolated and are traumatized makes you bad or stupid
You realize that normal, rational, every-day people get suckered into all manner of odd religions and spiritual groups every day because those groups tend to offer answers that people don't find in other parts of their lives?
Also, it's not even all other spider-men.
If MCU is Earth-199999, then the number of spider-men we see in this movie is not even one tenth of that
I hate multiverse stories for this exact reason
They always end up being stories about how each and every multiverse version of a character has the same canon and theres a secret society (who are always evil in some way) maintaining that canon
which makes stuff like Uncle Bens death kinda non issues now, because they no longer matter
not only is it something forced by a secret society, but if it doesn't happen / is prevented that universe is completely fricked and collapses
so now horrible incidents are really just good things because its META
also, as always
main character is X version of a well known character
X version meets alternative and very likely more popular versions of the chracter
X version beats alternative versions / alterative versions are jokes
X version is therefore the superior and best version of character
I hate this trope, why cant characters just stand on their own two feet instead of showing it to the "h8rs" by making a story where their favorite versions of a character are pathetic losers who get beaten up or made fun of
You're taking Miguel at his word but Earth 42 (even Miles' original Earth) disprove his point.
It's clear Miguel's "Canon" idea is going to prove to be bullshit that he concocted to help himself deal with the loss of the dimension he lived in with his daughter.
The real point of the "Canon" idea is that Miguel accidentally convinced tons of spider-people (not all of them) that the tragedies they suffered weren't just random or self-inflicted but actually part of a larger cosmic plan. Lots of spider-people went along with this because it's clearly a comforting way of thinking about the deaths they've suffered not being in vain.
It's an interesting plot-line because Miguel is inadvertently corrupting the original meaning that spider-people find in deaths like Uncle Ben's or Gwen Stacy's or Captain Stacy's by trying to make it an easier event to deal with when the whole point is it's not easy to deal with and it haunts spider-man for the rest of their lives and gives them the will to go on. He's actually corrupted their purpose and soul in an attempt to force sense onto the senseless, force reason onto the random.
>There's a whole MULTIVERSE out there with INFINITE possibilities
>But also these arbitrary details have to somehow be exactly the same between all of them because reasons
It's so dumb
>taking an insane cultist moron at his word despite blatant contradictions in his theories
>will inevitably be shocked when next year's children's movie tells them that the insane cultist moron is wrong
Oh, I get it! You're stupid.
That's the point you fricker, it's too predictable and it's hard to even consider the position of the antagonist as correct.
>too predictable
>dozens of people itt b***hing that "the writers fricked up, because the canon makes no sense"
Oh, of course, I believe you.
This smells just like Simon and Grace from Infinity train. Going "oh, oopsie!" Doesn't actually make up for forming a death cult which ruins Spider-Man's origin story, especially since kids haven't heard him say it yet.
It's a type of story which basically rebels against responsibility for sin, no matter how grave
>It's a type of story which basically rebels against responsibility for sin
You're saying this like you already know how the third movie ends.
>forming a death cult which ruins Spider-Man's origin story
Which Spider-Man? Miles? Peter? Either way, yeah, that's the point. It's reducing heroism down to trauma. I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be bad.
>it's hard to hear with that corporate wiener in your mouth
Tremendous projection.
>cult cope
It's basically a tweaked version of the whole "Spider-Totem" thing. Seems like a cult to me. What would you call it?
Shitty writing the same as the spider totem shit. You know the second worst part of the original spiderverse behind a bunch of OP vampires effortlessly killing fan favorite spidermen for shock value. Maybe don't make the major conflict for half your movie and it's unneeded sequel be stupidly contrived and involve a spiderman death cult.
>the protagonist explicitly taking the piss out of a concept you didn't like is bad writing
Are you my ex-wife? You seem incredibly unsatisfied with everything you get.
>whitey
Anon...
Just when people give me shit. I can see why she divorced you.
The ex-wife thing was a joke, but good to know you have no counter-argument.
why was he gonna eat the vulture?
We needed the REAL spider-man to stop morales
He's clearly going to be shown as wrong because his whole existence is to be the angry fanboy whining about canon and what makes a real Spider-man and that type of guy is never going to be right in these movies.
Is there any way to actually think anyone but Gwen and Miles are spiderman after this scene
>Every other spiderman is part of the death illuminati cult, including your favorites like Spectacular Spiderman and such
>They actively let uncle bens and captains die infinitely through out the universe
>Even when 2099 is going to be proven wrong in the next film, this basically makes all your favorite spidermen murderers and they will now dedicate themselves to saving uncle bens and captains which is just as bad
Cool, Spiderman is now a cult of villains and buttholes, thanks multiverse
Its so out of character for any spiderman aside from 2099 to be doing this and acting this evil
>aside from 2099
What fricking comic did you read? Because Miguel wouldn’t do any of the crap he did in the movie.
I havent really read any comics tbh
All my knowledge comes from the Spiderman media and games ive played, which is a lot
https://twitter.com/ceyhundvd/status/1665045107790303234?s=20
This is really all I know about 2099, from what I can tell he's always been an butthole
Does he even qualify as a hero?
Not that anon but you're a good chunk of why Cinemaphile is shit
>I don’t read comics but here’s my opinion on a comic character based on not-comics
Disregarded.
Really hope so. But even then this makes all the other Spiders look both stupid and shit.
>2099 wouldnt do that
>shows proof of 2099 doing that exact thing
>disregarded
sorry I havent read your 2099 comics but in terms of the media he's in, he's presented like an butthole.
All the tv shows, games, and now movies he's in, he's an butthole
Please, present some evidence he is NOT an butthole
Some shitty adaptation of the character isn’t the source material.
That’s like having Deadpool’s mouth closed then going “It’s in character because I watched X-Men Origins.”
You’re a casual acting like you have an opinion because you played a shitty version that isn’t the source material.
Well then you have multiple shitty adaptations of 2099
Because like I said, in all the spiderman TV shows, games, movies, he's a complete dick
and again, please, youre more then welcome to show some source that he isnt an butthole
>That's the point.
its a shitty, completely out of character, point
>its a shitty, completely out of character, point
Of course it's out of character and it isn't shitty. It wasn't even a factor until someone came along (Miles) that actually desired to change that before it happens, let alone know when it was coming. It's a series of events unfolding accelerated by the extremities of what one character experiences, making the surrounding group cult-like in the process as a response. Not inherently.
You expect me to believe, for as long as the Spider Society has happening which is implied to have been for a long time
NO one has been like Miles, there hasnt been ONE case like him
in an infinite universe
of infinite possibilities (but really only one possible canon for each of them)
And even then, with a case like Miles, A Spiderman would never go along with it just to be in the good books of an authority figure like 2099
its out of character for Spiderman, and makes all the other Spidermen out to be villains, not misguided, straight up bad guys
and again, Spiderman, especially not thousands and thousands of spidermen, would do this
The way the story sells it, he's the first one that's had to deal with someone other than them breaching dimensional holes where Spidey is the focal point. I think you're expected to believe if anyone else was in Miles's shoes, being completely new and uninitiated, they would do the same thing
>for as long as the Spider Society has happening which is implied to have been for a long time
It can't have been for a long time. Miles has only been Spider-Man for about a year. We don't know when Spider-42 crossed over to Miles' universe but it can't have been more than a couple years before that, and since Miguel identifies that as the "original" anomaly that caused all the others then it means that the Society can't have existed for longer than that.
Remember that the timelines of different universes don't match up even though they seem to be progressing at the same speed. In the first movie, Peter B. Parker had been Spider-Man for 22 years; Miles' Peter was Spider-Man for 10 years; Gwen had been Spider-Woman for 2 years.
It's not time travel, it's that some universes are just "ahead" of others and some are "behind" on the timeline.
>for as long as the Spider Society has happening which is implied to have been for a long time
It's not been that long.
It was formed some time after Miguel lost his second dimension, which itself only happened after Into the Spiderverse, which is about 16 months before Across the Spider-verse.
So < 16 months.
Moreover, it's important to note that Miles is distinct in that he's the second spider-man in his world. Peter Parker Prime would have been older and already suffered through the loss of his family member and the loss of his Police Captain friend. Miles' only benefit here is starting his tenure as spider-man earlier, it's the same reason Pavrit and Gwen have yet to experience the loss of their Captain figure yet either
Heroism for Spider-man never can because he does all the normal shit people would do if they got super powers.
Because he's a normal dude, he's not a perfectly moral or rational person.
The whole point of the Uncle Ben death is that it creates a direct link in his mind between the pain of loss and the inaction/apathy towards criminals
>Spider-Man would only try to save people if they're his close relatives
Where did I say this? You're making shit up
>Miles' only benefit here is starting his tenure as spider-man earlier
I meant later
Read the comic instead of basing your opinion on some outside source, it’s not my job to hold your hand.
In the comic, Miguel was hard headed, brash, and had an aggressive streak, but he valued life to a strong degree, especially when it’s an innocent person. He proved time and time again that he was willing to die before letting an innocent person get hurt. He even almost died to save corporate soldiers that just attempted to kill him in cold blood. Brash yes, soulless no.
I don’t care what shit video game you played, Miguel from the actual source material wouldn’t take over a dead man’s universe and get everyone killed, then shrug at a random person dying senselessly because muh canon. You’re citing an opinion based on ignorance then being proud of it.
>He even almost died to save corporate soldiers that just attempted to kill him in cold blood. Brash yes, soulless no.
Okay, so what would he do if he could save five people, but doing so would doom one person (not directly through his actions, he just wouldn't be there to save them when they needed it), and he CANNOT find s a way to save both?
You telling me Miguel would let five people die so that he can instead save one?
He would try to find a way to do both, the society existed for a year, they're all geniuses, they had the time to look for a solution, Miles has more resolve with just two days
>He would try to find a way to do both
HE CAN'T. That is NOT an option this time around. There isn't time, they're too far apart, the physics doesn't work out, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.
Five lives. One life. Miguel has to choose and then has to live with the consequences.
>they're all geniuses
A large number of them are also teenagers or college-age kids and can be fricking stupid like anyone else their age.
Look at MCU Peter as a great example. Spider-Man Homecoming literally wouldn't have happened as a plot if Peter had just said in plain English to Stark, "there's some guys with crazy alien tech, please tell me what you intend to do about them or I will have to do something myself."
>they had the time to look for a solution
Yeah and I think we saw that solution, didn't we? There's a giant spider UFO and a bunch of devices deployed in Mumbhattan to contain the dimensional breach that occurred from the canon being defiled. But as Miguel states in plain English, sometimes it doesn't work, for all that they've tried.
>HE CAN'T. That is NOT an option this time around
Miles can
>There isn't time, they're too far apart
A year is plenty time
>A year is plenty time
The result of that year seems to be the Spider UFO and the various devices deployed to Mumbhattan. Or are you just casually ignoring those because they don't fit your narrative?
>The result of that year seems to be the Spider UFO and the various devices deployed to Mumbhattan.
That do nothing to help the captain Stacy alt versions to survive
How many people do you think died when that dimensional hole was ripped open in Mumbhattan? It looked like it was the size of several city blocks.
Surely it's better to prevent the holes from forming in the first place and preclude the need to contain them.
>Spot-caused hole
Spot had already left. You sure he was the one that caused it? If he’s the cause and not the violation of canon then how was the Spider UFO and the team that’s sent in to deal with canon defilement already primed to go in, and why did their tech, primed to deal with canon defilement, appear to work fine on the hole?
No, what you’re suggesting doesn’t add up, not based on the information in the movie so far. Maybe the next movie will add new information, but at the moment, based on the information we have, we don’t have a strong reason to doubt Miguel.
yeah, prevent it by stopping spot, you know, the one who caused the hole in the first place.
Spot is gonna be the one to save Earth-1610 by deciding he doesn't want to be le bad guy anymore and creating a literal plot hole so the "canon event" never happens.
>Yeah and I think we saw that solution, didn't we? There's a giant spider UFO and a bunch of devices deployed in Mumbhattan to contain the dimensional breach that occurred from the canon being defiled.
That’s a bandaid. We have no idea if they’ve actually tried to find a solution to actual problem because the movie decided that’s not important. But Miles magically will solve it.
>Miles has more resolve with just two days
Not resolve, just panic
Consider that most of the spider-people we see are on the older side. Miguel didn't even want to bring Gwen back originally but only did so at Jess' behest, mainly because she was sort of at odds with her dad at the time.
Even Pavitr at least makes the attempt to save both the bus full of people and the captain, he literally says "I can save both" so it's not like he was willing to let the captain die just because he knew about the Canon.
>they're all geniuses
You'd be surprised that geniuses can make moral failings too when they're goaded into a situation where it's comforting not to.
I’ll tell you what he wouldn’t do: Take over a dead man’s world, ditch all of his responsibilities, then get that world killed too.
He would also actively look for a solution, not shrug his fricking shoulders. In fact, a huge amount of Spideys would do that, except in Spiderverse where they all are just ok with random deaths without looking for alternatives.
>movie Miguel is an evil Miguel that sold out to the mega corps and created his own multiversal mega coroporation of Spider-people
Eh... I'll take it.
it would also explain why his design changed so much from post credits to now. you could write it off as an artistic choice but they could easily make something more out of it
I could see him doing it if it was like, pre-issue 5 Miguel. Like right at the very start of his comic.
No, he wouldn’t. He was a bit selfish and scared, but he wouldn’t let people die.
His fight with Venture’s a good example.
>Fighting his enemy
>Bunch of Thorites run in and help against his wishes
>Miguel is ready to give up and turn himself in
>Venture needlessly kills a Thorite
>Miguel musters the courage to keep fighting and laments on the failure later in his journal
He had a rough start but he definitely cared.
>The solution is to let innocent people die and it’s ok because it happened to them.
Thanks for proving the stupidity of this.
>Thanks for proving the stupidity of this.
It's not stupid if you see it as something happening to yourself. You're helping yourself become a better person, even if it's an alternate universe version of yourself.
That's why Miguel makes such a big point about how sacrifice is part of being a spider-man. The point is that they're saying that if Miles is going to have the mask, he needs to suffer as they have so he can be as heroic and self-sacrificial.
I agree.
I think it's mostly to give something immediate for Miles to care about because, realistically, he'd probably go along with the cult if the only major loss he had to suffer was one he already suffered and not something that was in a few days to his dad
True
>Miles, you NEED to frick your universe's MJ. The world will collapse if you don't
>The point is that they're saying that if Miles is going to have the mask, he needs to suffer as they have so he can be as heroic and self-sacrificial.
That’s fricking psychotic. You do not need someone to die to do the right thing. Peter’s personality didn’t hinge entirely on a death, he learned a hard lesson and grew from it which doesn’t mean you need a dead uncle or dead friend. That’s ridiculous.
>That’s fricking psychotic. You do not need someone to die to do the right thing. Peter’s personality didn’t hinge entirely on a death, he learned a hard lesson and grew from it which doesn’t mean you need a dead uncle or dead friend. That’s ridiculous.
I agree, and the movie agrees with you.
Gwen literally assembles a team who have realized how insane that is
Again, and I'm trying to emphasize this: people who join cults are not insane from the get-go in real life. They are slowly and progressively brainwashed and usually come in because they're lonely, and/or vulnerable, and/or dealing with their own baggage. The people who joined Spider-Society aren't evil or dumb. They probably only got in to deal with the interdimensional intruders (because who even wants a second Vulture or Rhino running around?) and the Canon idea was brought up later as a theory for why this specific thing happened to Miguel's world, which was later accepted as truth.
Nobody would join up if the opening pitch was "Lol let these people die for the cause"
Sanest people in the thread
They should not have to realize it, it's been the default characterization for every Spider-Man for half a century
no, spider-man starts off moronic, then gets smarter
No they pretty much learn that central lesson with Ben's death, not to mention in the movie veteran Spider-Men need to learn it whereas the rookie Miles simply knows it (like every Spider-Man should)
they kinda all has selective memory loss and forgot the lesson, which needs to be learned again
>whereas the rookie Miles simply knows it
He doesn't, he's panicking and trying to get people to help him save his dad.
He's not making an argument that they're all wrong, he's just getting scared.
His main statement to Miguel is "You can't ask me to not save my dad"
Or, to put it another way, if Miguel had said "Some random cop in your world will die, this needs to happen", Miles would not have tried to break out of Spider-society to save him. He'd probably take it slower and be more open if the rationalization was right
Notice that he doesn't start freaking out until Miguel brings up the death of a friendly police captain that Miles instantly realizes is going to be his dad. Miles doesn't get upset that the death of a family member is mandated
Again, being brought into a cult does not require you to be dumb or evil going in. It's about desensitizing you to certain things slowly.
It's why Miguel had to bring Peter B in at all, because he knew that unloading the Canon shit out from the gate was going to be a hard sell without some friendly faces around to soften the blow and make an ethos appeal.
I do not think it's wrong to take an established character and show how they could be misguided and have their existing principles and experiences twisted into something worse. I would not say that the Spider Society people are evil. I think that, over time, when operating on this multi-versal scale, the significance of a single life could be reduced to a stepping stone.
I think, to some degree, this may even prove a point about how important it is for Spider-man to be a local super hero, your Friendly NEIGHBORHOOD spider-man. Because at the scale of entire dimensions and the multi-verse, people become numbers. Your power becomes so great that your responsibility overrides your humanity and your empathy.
This makes me think about something small which was all the crimes that Miles had to stop on his way to deliver the cake for his dad's party. They were all pretty ground-level things compared to Miguel's multi-versal task force saving the entire world. I feel like that's deliberate to show how that disconnect from your community can allow you to start treating people like numbers or variables instead of as, well, people.
>NOOOOO, SPIDERMAN HAS TO NEVER MAKE A MORAL MISTAKE, HE CAN'T EVER BE IN THE WRONG!!!
If Spider-man never made moral missteps or mistakes, he'd be Captain America
>Cool, Spiderman is now a cult of villains and buttholes, thanks multiverse
People become misguided when they've suffered greatly and someone comes to manipulate that suffering (even inadvertently)
IT is literally not surprising to me that if a guy came up who experienced the exact same loss as you and told you that it's an important part of not just you but led to you becoming a better person and saving others, then you'd at least take their words to heart.
It's funny to me that people are getting mad about Spider-men/women getting into this cult because his defining characteristic is how normal and banal he is compared to most other super heroes. He had to deal with being a normal guy with normal personal and financial issues and normal temptation to be selfish or lazy. He's not a paragon of morality that never slips up and does the wrong thing, he's a paragon of humanity who slips and does frick up but eventually gets back on track.
The Spider Society is one such frick up, and by the end, I assure you that every spider-man in it is going to realize they were screwing up and reject the Canon idea
Peter makes moral missteps, but the key word is misstep, in fact its a keypart of his character
But cmon, a death cult? Really
Youre telling me EVERY possible version of spiderman, from every version, is standing by on 2099's call unwillingly going along with this multiverse wide slaughter
There is no excuse you can tell me that justifys this level of character assassination, no level of grief can possibly excuse "Yeah im in a cult now lol, gotta let every version of me infinitely suffer my pain and if they dont or try to stop it we will all beat the shit out of them and kick them back home to watch their love ones die/suffer with the knowledge they cant do shit about it"
Thats not spiderman
>Youre telling me EVERY possible version of spiderman, from every version, is standing by on 2099's call unwillingly going along with this multiverse wide slaughter
Kind of getting hyperbolic here, Dude. It's not a "slaughter", it's "letting things play out as they would have if we the interdimensional interlopers weren't there, because the known consequence for interference is the universe ripping itself apart, killing everyone in it."
I can absolutely see Spider-Man doing the calculus and figuring that one life for billions is an unfair but necessary trade. "Great responsibility", natch.
>"letting things play out as they would have
This is meaningless in a MULTIVERSE where every version of events will take place. Every action creates a splinter timeline where it did and didn't happen. There are infinite universes where captain Stacey is alive with spider-man running around.
there's a multiverse where spider-man saved captain Stacy, and then his universe just start collapsing confusing peter
Yeah Spider-Man has always been a pragmatic hero, he'd do the math on who to kill on who to save
???
We’re not talking about him actively killing anyone. We’re talking about a Dark Knight-like situation, where there’s two sets of people who need saving and NO WAY to save both.
The very movie in your pic has Wanda ultimately realize that there’s no way to save both Vision and the universe and so kill Vision, at his own request, because he’d already come to that conclusion. It’s a bad example.
That's a sacrifice by Vision, not a trade by Wanda.
And again: the very scene you posted has Vision say that he may need to be sacrificed, and that’s when Cap says that they don’t trade lives. And look at what that stance ultimately cost them: half of all life in the universe.
They tried to save him, they failed, then they tried to save half of all life, they succeeded. According to you they should've just went "welp nothing can be done let's go get shawarma"
> then they tried to save half of all life
But not by going back and changing what happened. In fact for multiple reasons (the fact that it would doom an alternate timeline, notably) they specifically rule out changing past canon events, even after learning that changing the past won’t change their relative present.
Returning to Spider-Man, we know universes (plural) have been wiped out by changing key events. And we see plainly that the Society has worked hard to prevent that from happening again, by both identifying key events and allowing them to happen; and by having a team to respond to the fallout of what happens when they’re prevented anyway.
But asking for a solution…maybe there’s one. Or maybe it’s like expecting Galactus to stop eating planets: not only is it not a reasonable expection, but in fact things get WORSE if Galactus stops for too long or is killed.
Asking for them to try and reach a solution isn't too much to ask. Especially since one will clearly exist by the sequel.
>Or maybe it’s like expecting Galactus to stop eating planets: not only is it not a reasonable expectation
Yeah let's ignore that whole thing where they did find a solution for a long time which was having him devour uninhabited planets.
> Asking for them to try and reach a solution
AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE AHIP AND DEVICES DEPLOYED IN MUMBHATTAN WERE?
You can’t keep pretending that those don’t exist. The Society is PLAINLY working on trying to deal with breaches caused by violating canon. But we also know, because it’s plainly stated, that it DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK.
The Society has been around for not more than a few years at most. If they don’t have a reliable way of dealing with breaches, then the solution that makes the most sense until they DO is to avoid causing the breaches in the first place, isn’t it?
That's putting out a fire, not finding a solution.
Finding a solution would be finding what moronic shit is causing the universe to break and stopping that. Fighting the disease instead of the symptoms
> Finding a solution would be finding what moronic shit is causing the universe to break and stopping that. Fighting the disease instead of the symptoms
And you, being an expert in inter dimensional physics, know that the solution should have only taken, what, six months tops? No way that this could take many, many years? Maybe decades? No way that it might not be possible at all?
You can’t possibly make that call. You also can’t possibly state that the Society isn’t working on it, because it’s never said nor implied that they’re not, only that they don’t have a solution right now, when it’s important to Miles.
They never said they even tried so your headcanon doesn't excuse the movie being moronic
And they never said they didn’t, so your headcanon is at least as moronic. The difference is that I’m not hyperbolically calling the Society a death cult or ignoring stuff that’s plainly in the movie.
They also never said they didn't kill innocent people using knives so going by your logic this is proof they all definitely killed innocent people using knives
NTA but you can't prove a negative.
Also Spider-Society is a death cult in that they believe that their existence as spider-people hinges on the death of certain people close to them.
Which isn't necessarily even incorrect, but it does mean that they're willing to not prevent these deaths because they see them as necessary to giving each world a spider-man that would protect it.
>But wouldn't they just try to protect more worlds and stop those deaths anyways?
I'd think that too but Miguel, Jess and Gwen combined had trouble getting fricking Renaissance Vulture under control. It felt like they were sort of stretched thin given how many frick cages they had full of dimensional visitors. Considering how busy Spider-man normally is in their own world, plus dealing with interdimensional visitors ever since ITSV, I don't think they'd literally have any time to go save 2-3 specific people in other dimensions just to make more work for themselves when they're literally too busy trying to stop crime on their home turf.
Like, the Raimi films make me think about just how over-worked spider-man is in general
Something that bothers me about this movie is how it demands that Spider-Man’s existence is based on death. That completely nullifies the “Everyone can be Spider-Man” angle and demands that someone can be a hero only when they lose something.
Spider-Man is about growth, not death. Yes Ben died, yes he’s had others die, but what defines Spider-Man is the development of someone to match the responsibilities thrust upon them. Peter learned how strong his responsibilities were by Ben’s death but that doesn’t mean he needed a death to do it, that’s stupid. He was a young man forced to grow into a hero, which is why many of his enemies represent the reverse. Spider-Girl (Mayday) and 2099 didn’t have a specific personal death to make them what they were, they rose to the occasion under separate circumstances.
To turn it into a Totem tier “Someone must die” thing is both morbid and a mischaracterization of Pete’s origin.
Pic related. Daredevil but relevant.
>"What the villain is saying SURELY MUST be wrong, r-right, bros?"
It's like you people have never watched a kids movie before.
It's moronic if he's wrong or if he's right or if he's anything in between
What's moronic, the outcome of the plot?
Why is it moronic if he's wrong about the "death" thing?
Because it was preventable and only Miles thought to try to find a solution, especially since the solution is implied to be something as moronic "just quit your job lol"
every spider-man went along with the death cult for no reason then, and none of them tried to figure it out besides miles
That has nothing to do with what I said but sure.
The point is that you seriously think Miguel might be right when the movie itself is telling you he isn't.
Seems like every Spider-Man in the organization has been through the death of a loved one, and they would have zero reason not to trust other versions of themselves who share that trauma, especially with the whole "Spidey-Sense" connection thing, and he fact that literally EVERYONE else can vouch for it. Meanwhile, Miles snuck in without them knowing, and he was a version who hadn't gone through that shit. And even then, people like Pavitr are obviously being kept in the dark too.
There's multiple layers of manipulation.
>they would have zero reason not to trust other versions of themselves
Except when those other versions tell them to stand by when people are dying. Miles also went through the loss of his uncle and he knew what to do, so should everyone else.
>kept in the dark
>only recruited if they're broken enough or dumb enough to support the cause
>made to trust other versions of themselves
>if they rebel, the organization just fricking arrested them
See how that works?
>believing the villain of the movie
Sad.
This.
This version of Miles is an "anomaly" in many ways. But chief among those, IMO, is Aaron's death would not have created the same foundation of Guilt and Grief that is at the core of so many of the other Spiderfolks in this story. Not because Miles didn't love Aaron, and not even because Aaron was the Prowler. But because Aaron's final words were an apology for failing Miles, and his building up who Miles is and who he is becoming. "You're the best of all of us Miles, you're on your way". Which was never going to illicit the same foundation of Guilt/Grief at the core of so many other spiders. Least of all Peter with Ben's "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility".
Miguel's organization seems to be a bit of an Echo Chamber tbh. One that preys on most "Spideys" foundation of Grief & Guilt that spurs them on as Spiderman; but ultimately destroys their personal lives far too often. With the accidental destruction of what is implied as at least several realities only serving to reinforce that echo. Surrounding "Spidey" with thousands of versions of themselves might amplify the best of them; but its likely also to amplify the worst of them as well. And that worst is making poor decisions based off that innate core of Guilt & Grief. "With great power comes great responsibility. With GREATER power comes GREATER responsibility"
And yet despite all that he's seemingly the only one that learned the lesson "don't stand by and let people die if you can help it"
No he's not.
He's just younger than most of the others and the major event is related to his dad and it's coming up soon.
Miles isn't being a morally better person here, he's just trying to save his dad, his motivation is almost entirely selfish. If he was being told some random police captain he hasn't met yet is going to die, or if his dad wasn't about to make Captain, then he'd probably not react to the Canon reveal with so much panic or aggression.
That's part of the Spider-cult shit too, there's a sanitization of these deaths because they're made into little milestones on a larger timeline instead of the immediate thing that's going to happen to you in three days.
Miles is not making a political or philosophical statement with his rejection of the Canon compared to everyone else, he's having an immediate emotional response to his loved one being in danger.
Hobie Brown is the one who is making a philosophical argument
Writers know how Spider-Man would act, but they make Miles the only one who does so, shit writing
Because he's in a unique position, not only is his canon event tied to an anomaly like himself, he's currently going through a coming of age arc where he's still dealing with shit with dad. That's what motivates him to defy fate.
In contrast, most of the other Spider-People have seemingly already gone through their canon events so they're looking at the situation more pragmatically, they're more willing to be responsible and take the stakes of the universe and possibly the multiverse collapsing seriously.
Nah they'd help him save his dad, not try to stop him from doing so
I mean a bunch of them do at the end
yeah, Pani learned its wrong to let people die thanks to miles
>That completely nullifies the “Everyone can be Spider-Man” angle and demands that someone can be a hero only when they lose something.
It's more of the Ratatouille "Anyone COULD be Spider-man"
But I also think they're going to prove Miguel wrong. The main reason Spider-Society exists is because it's people who have already had these things happen to them. It's a bit of a selection bias where Miguel's algorithm is already looking for people who have had these things happen to them. So I wager they'll go out and find a whole set of spider-men who have never had any of these events occur and were basically ignored outright by the Spider Society as a result.
>To turn it into a Totem tier “Someone must die” thing is both morbid and a mischaracterization of Pete’s origin.
I agree, I think this is a critical part of the film's messaging and meant to show how far everyone has fallen in this weird spiderman circle jerk. The therapy scene also plays into this idea as well where the Spider-men are all just talking about those things that they all went through. Even ITSV highlights this with how holy and sanitized its Uncle Ben scene is and how all the spider-people try to help Miles feel better after his uncle dies.
That shared experience can be empowering but it can also morph into something gaudy, in the right circumstances.
I think this is why both Miles and Gwen go back home after they're booted back. Miles realizes that he values the experiences he got from his family just as much as the ones he's gotten being spider-man, and Gwen reconciles with her father which helps her realize that the spider-society isn't her only family. Even Peter comes to his sense once he puts Mayday to sleep and has MJ come to him for a bit.
The messaging here for me is that Cults try to replace your family by tethering you by your trauma, but your real family will help ground you in reality again
>It's more of the Ratatouille "Anyone COULD be Spider-man"
I personally think that SHOULD have been the message, but ITSV definitely leaned hard on "anyone can be Spider-Man"
?t=97
Frick, go the timestamp wrong
?t=90
>Also Spider-Society is a death cult in that they believe that their existence as spider-people hinges on the death of certain people close to them. Which isn't necessarily even incorrect, but it does mean that they're willing to not prevent these deaths because they see them as necessary to giving each world a spider-man that would protect it.
Important to remember that canon events aren't exclusively about deaths, the Spider-Society believes their existences are predicated on certain points in their lives, both good and bad.
its so dumb to have the captain thing as a moment though; Literally no adaptation aside from Garfield's spiderman had that moment.
It doesn't have to be a captain, just the second death of an ally or loved one. Like Gwen didn't have an Uncle Ben, her first tragedy equivalent was Peter dying.
you didn't watch the movie, it has to be a police captain. they talked about it with india spider-mans captain
Then why is Gwen's dad saved by quitting his position as captain
they retcon it so everyone has it, even spectacular spider-man. its funny how awful the writing is
Or George just died at some point after the events of the show.
yeah, and spectacular spider-man got cucked by paul at some point after the show too
>the Spider-Society believes their existences are predicated on certain points in their lives, both good and bad.
And they (and the writers) are wrong, because many of the different versions of Spider-Man don't go through those beats
And that's going to be a major plot beat of the next movie where they meet some spider-men who have come into being without an uncle-ben death or having an MJ at all.
The point is that Miguel's idea of the canon was self-fulfilling because he only sought out people who already met its criteria rather.
And all of them will look like morons for allowing so many people to die
except they will know that Miles is the best spider-man, give him an award and a giant statue to remember him by
If this is the case then it will make literally everyone look even worse.
And?
And BTSV will be the worst Spider-Man movie ever written second only to ATSV
Sure, anon. Totally believe you.
i can totally see it being one big let down, but i'll combine both movies as the worst spider-man movie
and no one will care cause it'll make Miles look good
> the Spider-Society believes their existences are predicated on certain points in their lives, both good and bad.
The fact that people can write this out and still think that the Spider-man concept has not been run into the fricking ground is baffling.
Member when you would make up a new superhero and come up with story lines based on their lives and adventures
There are a lot of Spider-Man stories you can tell. The problem is most writers are either lazy or, in this case, are obsessed with sounding clever.
>NTA but you can't prove a negative.
Oh for frick sake, YES YOU CAN, because any positive statement can be inverted to be expressed as its negative, and any negative statement can be inverted to be expressed as a positive, therefore proving the positive version of the statement also proves the negative version of the statement. This means that every time a positive is proven, a negative is also proven.
"X is true" can also be expressed as "X is not false." If you prove X, you've proven a negative.
"You can't prove a negative" is the last recourse of people who have run out of any actual logical argument or evidence and are trying to just end an argument with a semblance of victory.
Might I refer you to earlier in this reply chain where I already told you I don't expect them to have the solution, you fricking idiot
>You also can’t possibly state that the Society isn’t working on it, because it’s never said nor implied that they’re not
It's also never stated or implied they are, and if they were, wouldn't it be useful to tell Miles that when they're explaining what canon events are?
>Miles these are canon events and altering them can destroy the universe
>we are working hard to stop that from happening because Spider-Man doesn't trade lives
All it would take.
That's not trading a life. That's Vision killing himself to save others. That's moronic writing to equate the two and you shouldn't entertain the equivalence.
I’m not the one who called it trading a life, Captain America is. In the scene that you posted a pic of. It’s not my fault you haven’t seen Infinity War.
>That's moronic writing to equate the two
>NO WAY
>Just give up on finding a way to save the innocent after never trying anything else
Why would you pick the Dark Knight as an example, neither the criminals nor the civilians choose to blow up the other, and Batman saves the day. That's what heros do
Don't have pretensions of this lasting as a classic story like fantastic four, the fans hardly even discuss the story, that's not why they like it
>You’re presuming that it CAN be done
Heroes don't give up and assume it can't, they don't believe in nihilism
> neither the criminals nor the civilians choose to blow up the order
Wrong scene. I was referring to Rachel and Harvey being tied up next to bombs. Didn’t work out for anyone, remember?
But he still tried hmm
And he failed. Rachel dies, Harvey is saved but goes horribly insane and ends up dying anyway, and Joker gets away with his real prize.
Sometimes you can’t win. Sometimes the best thing you can do is damage control.
But he tried.
Spider-Man did not try, and even if he did and failed, he wouldn't give up
And how would multiple universes have been destroyed already if the Society had not also already tried?
They stopped trying
But he tried
>But cmon, a death cult? Really
Do you think they see it as a death cult? When Miguel is telling them "yeah, this is what happened when I tried to go against the Canon", do you think that someone like Peter or any other spider-man, whose heroism is putting the greater good above his personal wants, would want a dimension to get erased?
That's part of what's interesting about how the "Canon" idea is sold. They re-frame all the major events in all of their lives as stepping stones to where they're at now. And I wager most of them would agree that without their Uncle Ben death, most of them wouldn't have become a super hero and kept fricking around with their powers in dumb or selfish ways.
>"Yeah im in a cult now lol, gotta let every version of me infinitely suffer my pain and if they dont or try to stop it we will all beat the shit out of them and kick them back home to watch their love ones die/suffer with the knowledge they cant do shit about it"
Given that they've been tricked into thinking it's one of the major reasons that spider-man exists in the first place, I can totally believe it.
That's what makes the Spider-Society interesting as a plot device: it takes one aspect of spiderman's desire to do good and bear their greater responsibility to a logical extreme that plays the calculus of 2-3 people dying for the salvation of untold thousands of others per spiderman.
Peter B makes this point pretty explicitly when he states taht without Uncle Ben dying, most of them wouldn't have taken up the mantle of spider-man, would never have been pushed to become a crime-fighter. He also points out that without that suffering, Spider-men/women would never accomplish all the good they do. And to some degree, he's right. We see Earth 42 that never had a spider-man and it's basically fully controlled by Crime Syndicates and Mega Corps.
>Youre telling me EVERY possible version of spiderman, from every version, is standing by on 2099's call
No. According to the idea of an infinite amount of alt-universes, there's an infinite amount of Spider-People who either don't know about this shit or refused to take part in it. They only take in people they think they can trust. Miles wasn't even supposed to be there.
>there's an infinite amount of Spider-People who either don't know about this shit or refused to take part in it
Spider-Pig and Spider-Man Noir likely being two of them, for example.
Exactly. Throw in the fact that some of them are lost kids like Gwen, and quite a few are fundamentally broken people like Peter B and Miguel, and it's kinda clear why some of them took the position.
>missteps
OMD called
There’s a huge difference between an honest mistake any “Nah it’s fine let people die without finding a solution to the issue in a group of scientists, and just mindlessly follow a leader and question nothing”.
>by the end, I assure you that every spider-man in it is going to realize they were screwing up and reject the Canon idea
I don't even get why anyone would label that as bad writing. It's obvious that there's vital information missing on purpose as to why the collapses happen, not the disruptions to canon. In 2099's case, it was taking his alternate's place. He's just pinning it on Miles out of projection and fear and everyone goes along with it for the same reason. That's extremely good writing. It seems to me people are just miffed that they made their favorite spidey an anti-hero.
>Thats not spiderman
That's the point.
>That's the point.
>let's make every Spider-man shit to prop up Miles
Thanks for proving why the movie is shit.
Even Gwen is a psycho, she went to hang out with Miles in his dimension and met his parents KNOWING his dad has to die and did fricking nothing until way way way later
yeah, and i guess she was okay with her own dad dying too
Bros I’m sorry, I wished on a monkey’s paw for spectacular spidey to get a line.
"Miles is the best and I love what Tom Holland has done with Spider-Man."
"fr" - TAS Spiderman
Because he's advocating for something no Superhero would advocate for. And a plot that drives him to do it is one that had no business being in this genre when Hickman was puking it all over the Avengers, it has no place here.
My biggest criticism is that this movie likes to promote child endangerment for no reason. Was it really necessary to make Spider Woman pregnant, have her fight and not address the implications that she's risking the safety of her baby doing so? Why the frick is Peter B bringing a 1-year old Mayday to fights and LYING to MJ that he isn't?
We have seen peter seeing trolley situation and finding a new way to solve the problem many times. No version of Peter will accept letting a person die.
Nuh uh they totally would. Only Super Awesome Special Miles wants to actually find a solution.
>Gwen: Do we really know if you're right?
>Miguel: Do you want to find out?
He's 100% wrong, which will make everyone look like idiots. It's a pretty standard plot.
frick this movie for even making this a plot device to make Miles look better than everyone (except punk i guess)
Youd think with all those spider-mans and their magnum size iqs theyd be able to stop this dumb dimension garbage.
>why is Cinemaphile reeeing over him?
>"Miguel"
gee, I wonder what it could possibly be...
This whole spider society is really stupid but I wonder how they will react to the knowledge they were wrong in the next film
Theyve been letting who knows how many people die, and stopping who knows how many people from saving them
even if Miles is the first and only case, every version of spiderman you know and love was almost a murderer who stopped a young spiderman from saving their dad from death
I unironically don't want the resolution to be "they didn't fully understand how the multiverse works haha". Would be more interesting if Miles goes full Paradise Lost on the multiverse and embraces being damned but I don't think the writers are ballsy enough to do it.
>previews come out
>Cinemaphile catches wind about the death cult in the movie
>people who saw it confirm it, camrip clips confirm it, whole camrip links get posted
>anons shit on the moronic writing for 3 days straight including the first two days of release when people saw it in theaters
>tons of threads and hundreds of IPs of unanimous hate for the character assassination of every Spider-Man
>suddenly tons of posts filled with generic empty praise almost copy paste in a style that no one on Cinemaphile ever uses start popping up
>damage control about the movie's inane plot and various technical flaws that are basically "turn your brain off"
>even saw one of them call someone "sir"
What did Sony Pictures Animation Inc mean by this
>get more context for what happens in movie
>it makes more sense
strange, I know
We had the whole context for 3 days straight, not one of them said "I thought it'd be bad but the movie explained it", they posted as if the previous 3 days of posts never existed
>some people don't go see movies the day they come out
>because of this, they usually avoid threads spoiling the film
A novel concept, but one you'll find very understandable, I'm sure.
>regular Cinemaphile posters all somehow missed 3+ days of blatant threads that had the death cult in the OP
Do not redeem
>that spacing
>le sir
And you think this is... robots?
Do you really think someone would see a spoiler thread, and just go "WELL SHIIIIEEEET, I CAME THIS FAR! MIGHT AS WELL!"
No, they'd just avoid the board until they see the movie.
The real question is why the Spidey that fights big pharma is the bad guy.
Miguel is wrong.
>Spider-Man would just sit down and accept that some people are fated to die
God you shills are fricking moronic. When can we get a Cinemaphile split
>Spider-man has never made a bad decision
For what it's worth, Peter B doesn't try to stop Miles from saving his dad, that's Miguel (who has his own reasons for hating Miles).
I wager that if it were up to Peter B, he'd just let Miles go home and try to save his dad, even if he fails
>For what it's worth, Peter B doesn't try to stop Miles from saving his dad
He literally does, he catches Miles and tries to repeatedly dissuade him from saving his dad, did you miss the whole "hold the baby scene"
He wasn’t trying to stop Miles from saving his dad, he was trying to help Miles understand that just because tragedies happen doesn’t mean that good things don’t happen too. Ultimately Peter B doesn’t do a single thing to hinder Miles in any real way.
He caught Miles, instead of giving him a way out so he can go save his dad, he tried to convince him Miguel was right
Did he have a way out?
yeah,
>"we're gonna figure this one out buddy, I won't let your dad die if we can save him. Miguel could be wrong about this, lets look into it more"
He tries to dissuade him but he doesn't try to cage him, he gets in Miguel's face about that. That's what I mean, the approaches to handling Miles are different, particularly among the people who know him vs the people who don't.
We know Miguel is probably more just spiteful at Miles for letting him find out about the multi-verse to begin with, whereas Peter B and Gwen probably wanted to interfere with Miles path through the "Canon" as much as possible and let him handle it on his own.
Miles himself doesn't even seem to care about anyone else's Canon events, only his own since he found out his dad is going to die in a few days.
But back to Peter B, the whole point is that he's trying to impart knowledge to Miles but failing to see that he's been convinced that the way things were for him are how they MUST be for future generations. That's why he's ruminating on Mayday so much when he gets back to his home dimension and wondering if he's cut out to be a parent, because he knows he just fricked up and pushed Miles away.
Spider-man has always been a character that punishes himself for the sake of others. He takes on the burden of responsibility to stop crime and holds himself to a higher standard than he holds others. But there's also an awareness that so much of that decision is driven by the loss he has experienced as a result of not doing the right thing before.
So Spider-Society takes that to the next level and extrapolates both that burden and the awareness of what pushes spider-men in all stories to do the right thing and asks if you'd be willing to take on that loss knowing it would make you stronger and more able to save more people.
It's not meant to be a benign attitude, it's very clearly a lapse in judgement on the part of the people in Spider Society, and Miguel especially. But that's typical. People in Cults aren't dumb or malicious by nature. They're brainwashed.
You're missing the point. Why haven't all of the Spider-Men banded together to stop canon events from mattering in the first place. This isn't JUST about them stopping Miles from saving his dad, it's also about them not even trying to find a solution for it beyond just letting the people die
> Why haven't all of the Spider-Men banded together to stop canon events from mattering in the first place.
Why hasn’t Reed Richards cured cancer?
Why doesn’t Galactus just eat normal food instead of planets?
You’re presuming that it CAN be done, or that it’s easy enough to do that it can be done inside of a year or so.
Anon you are being moronic, Miles did the right thing and said frick you to destiny, but only Miles and no one else, the writers KNOW what Spider-Man would do, but only Miles gets to do it
The writers also know that other Spider-Men have tried exactly what Miles is trying now and some universes paid the price for it. And I know it too. Because it’s stated IN PLAIN ENGLISH IN THE MOVIE. You’re acting like Miguel and the Society as a whole is working on a supposition rather than something they’ve actually observed several times, when the movie states outright that they HAVE observed it several times. Not just Miguel’s universe that he interloped into.
Christ I hate arguing with people who don’t have an eidetic memory for media.
Literally the only scenario in which what you're arguing would be correct is if the following happens in the next movie
>Gwen's dad dies
>Miles' dad dies
>all the plot holes and inconsistencies in this movie are supposed to be like that, everything Miguel claimed is proven to be correct without exception
>the Spider-Verse fictional universe is deterministic and everything every Spider-Man goes through is pointless because fate happens either way
>the metaphysical context of the universe is directly opposed to writing a good Spider-Man story
There is literally no way out of this that doesn't make out everyone including the writers to be massive morons, it's genuinely impressive how they fricked up such a simple setup
Maybe you’re right. I’m not interested in the next movie, I’m interested in the current one and the information that the Society is basing itself off of, which is plainly stated to having observed several destroyed universes caused by violating canon.
>There is literally no way out of this that doesn't make out everyone including the writers to be massive morons
Spider-punk absorbs Spot's powers to become the ultimate anti-status quo singularity, he attains full control of the multiverse rewriting the current Spider-Man comics in real time so that Paul never existed.
>Why hasn’t Reed Richards cured cancer?
>Why doesn’t Galactus just eat normal food instead of planets?
False equivalencies and you know it.
>You’re presuming that it CAN be done, or that it’s easy enough to do that it can be done inside of a year or so.
I'm not presuming shit. I'm expecting them to at least state that they are trying to fix it. I don't think anyone would have as much of an issue with it if Peter B or Miguel or anyone sat Miles down and told him that they'd been working tirelessly to remove canon events as a universal rule but they just aren't there yet. It would at least show that they're trying and not that they've just given up and allowed countless uncle Ben's and police captains to die because fate willed it
>Why haven't all of the Spider-Men banded together to stop canon events from mattering in the first place
Because that's not the only reason they'd be against them.
That's Miguel's reason.
Peter B's (and likely a good number of other Spider-men) do it because they think those events made them better people (which isn't entirely false, Uncle Ben's death was clearly meant to force an otherwise selfish Peter to become racked with guilt and fight crime as a result.
If you prevent Uncle Ben's death in one universe, you take away their Spider-man and then who's going to stop crime in that world?
The Canon Events are one aspect of this but I'd argue the more important one is Peter B's reason, which we get evidence for in Earth 42 which is a considerably worse shit-hole specifically because they never had a Spider-man
That's even worse reasoning
>Spider-Man would let someone die just to teach someone a lesson about responsibility
Yeah real great character work there
Let me put it to you this way
Peter is offered two paths of reality. One where Uncle Ben doesn't get killed by the thief that Peter let go vs the world he currently lives in. In the world with Uncle Ben alive, Peter never becomes spider-man and he keeps using his powers for personal gain and selfish ends.
Which do you think Peter would choose, with him knowing that this major event is what pushed him to become a super-hero? There's no "Solution" here, just the question of whether Peter will develop this way or not
There are surely other ways to put him on the path of good though without sacrificing a man's life. If you wanted to be morally questionable you could give him a scare. Let the burglar break in but stop him before he does any real damage so Peter realises that his actions have consequences.
At the end of the day, Spider-Man would rather save Ben's life, stopping another Spider-Man from being formed, then protect two separate Earths over allowing Ben to die
>At the end of the day, Spider-Man would rather save Ben's life, stopping another Spider-Man from being formed, then protect two separate Earths over allowing Ben to die
That wasn't my argument.
My question here is if Peter had to choose between HIMSELF becoming spider-man vs uncle ben living, a binary decision in-universe, then which do you think he would choose?
Peter can choose to have the thief go down a different street and never pass by Uncle Ben.
That's all
My point here is that Peter is aware of the role that Uncle Ben's death has played in his life. So sitting here and saying "Peter would choose to not become a crime-fighter in return for a life with Uncle Ben" is at least a little ambiguous
He would still choose to save Uncle Ben
>Dude, hold my baby. That'll make you change your mind about letting your dad die
He absolutely does.
Because he's trying to teach Miles the way he did in the first movie, he's trying to convey that Mayday only happened because of Miles, along with all the other things that happened in his life.
He's not doing a good job but it's clear that he sees Mayday as the culmination of all his experiences and decisions, both the good and bad. She's a physical manifestation of the Canon for him and that's what Peter B is trying to show to Miles, that things will get better even if his dad dies. Because for Peter B, and most of the other spider-men, most of these events are things that have already happened. They've already gone through and grown from these experiences, so they're seeing the benefits of them in hindsight
I strongly disagree. I think he'd know that Uncle Ben wouldn't want that, Uncle Ben wouldn't want him to forsake all the other lives he saved as Spider-Man for the sake of himself, that would violate the very principal of With Great Power comes Great Responsibility.
That's my point with the Spider Society. It's an extreme version of the guiding philosophy that all Spider-men live by, and that's why it's realistic for me to see at least a good number of spider-people get brainwashed by it. It's an ideology that was born out of their existing experiences and maxims that became accepted because it happened to most of them already.
Also the idea that Spider-man would go around trying to save the Uncle Bens of every dimension is insane because my man doesn't even go around his own planet Earth trying to save every person. My man ain't in the favelas in BRazil
You said Peter didn't try to stop Miles. He did. Don't get on your soapbox to write shit no one cares for.
Sorry, I meant he didn't try to restrain Miles. He just tried to convince him otherwise
>Let’s research a solution.
They do have a solution, which is letting the Canon events happen.
And, again, if you're most spider-people who have already gone through this shit, then that doesn't phase you that much because it's something in your past.
I'll put it another way: If normal spider-man in 616 won't use his powers to go around the world and save people in Boston, LA, Detroit, let alone other countries, why would you expect a multi-verse of spider-men make the individual events of each other's lives their priority?
>What I don’t get too is that India’s world is still intact. Will it be gone next movie? If not this is all for nothing.
They're blaming the hole Spot left in Mumbattan on Miles preventing the Canon event, so they're clearly misinterpreting the facts.
Another major detail that I think is important to note about the sort of corrupted narrative that the Spider Society has sold to everyone is it's meant to almost be a sort of opiate for the shared guilt they feel for the deaths of their friends.
The Canon lets them see these particular milestones (both good and bad) as crucial to not only their personal development but also the stability of the world. When people lose loved ones, it's not uncommon for your spiritual leader to offer a platitude about it being part of a Grand Plan.
For Miguel, in particular, he doesn't want Miles or anyone to disprove his theory because it means he will have to confront the fact that his universe crumbled for reasons likely unrelated to his presence altogether. It means his loss wasn't indicative of a cosmic law, it was just some idiot playing around with a particle collider somewhere.
I wager the rest of Spider Society don't want to let go of the Canon because it's probably given a lot of them some peace of mind when thinking back on their own origin stories. But it's also made them more complicit
>Spider-Man finds out that if certain people are saved the universe ends for some reason
>Instead of finding out why and putting a stop to it he just lets those people die
>He then also actively stops other people from trying to do what he won't
>This is fine though because it's meta/morally grey/he's only following orders
>This is fine though because it's meta/morally grey/he's only following orders
>This is fine though
>This is fine
Why is the children's movie mind-breaking so many people?
Why did Spider-Man being white mindbreak so many writers that it forced them to write this shitty script is the better question
Because they had to write it to be where Miles is THE spiderman, he's no longer just trying to be spiderman, he IS spiderman
every other spider person in this film, they arent spiderman, they arent even good guys
so to make Miles seem better, not only can he outrun and beat every spiderman up to when 2099 catches him, only to then outwit them, he is also morally superior to every other spider in this film
>The movie presents this as being the wrong decision
>But it also presents SPIDER-MAN as being the one to cling to it while doing nothing to fix it
>There is no issue with this
What is it about basic reading comprehension that's mind-breaking so many shills?
>"But it also presents SPIDER-MAN as being the one to cling to it"
>he seriously hoped that, in a multiverse of infinite versions of the character, every single one would be [Peter Benjamin Parker of Earth-616, first appearance Amazing Fantasy #15 (1962)]
This is why we can't have anything different.
>I-it's an alternate universe!
I see where at this stage of cope. Let me ask you this then. Why make a movie about Spider-Man if none of the characters called Spider-Man will act like Spider-Man?
>cope
>"The premise is the premise! OH NO!"
>Why make a movie about Spider-Man if none of the characters called Spider-Man will act like Spider-Man?
One does. Miles.
>One does. Miles.
And the veil has been lifted
>infinite universes
>not every Spider-Man is a saint
>minds broken by this concept
You gotta be 18 to post here, fellas.
>make a Spider-Man multiverse movie "for the fans"
>include only OOC psychopath Spider-Men so Miles could look good next to them
>movie
>has antagonists
Incredible.
>Spider-Man movie where every Spider-Man is the antagonist except Miles
>a good thing
Ok Bendis, time to go take care of your wife's children
>the premise is that movie is shit
>call the movie shit
>"NOOOOO THAT'S OKAY BECAUSE THAT'S THE PREMISE"
Why would I like a film where my beloved characters act like totally out of character buttholes just to prop up the new guy whos exactly like the old one but be...
NO
NOOOOOO
>Why would I like a film where my beloved characters act like totally out of character buttholes just to prop up the new guy whos exactly like the old one but be...
>why are my characters acting differently than they did 40 in-universe years ago?
But... they aren't beloved characters... They're new versions of previous characters.
The two other characters from the last movie saw the error of their ways and set out to save Miles.
What's the issue?
>beloved established Spider-Men need to see the error of their ways as illuminated by Miles instead of knowing this shit by default since they had their uncle Ben moments
Shill cope reaching critical levels
>instead of knowing this shit by default since they had their uncle Ben moments
>Gwen is a kid who got caught up in the glamour of the whole thing.
>Peter B. and Gwen both experienced great losses and notice the ever-present pattern of the Spideys in the cul- I mean, club.
Not that hard.
>how better miles is than every single spider-man
Every single Spider-Man that got suckered into the death cult, yes. It's a big multiverse, man.
Didn't watch the show, homie. Don't care. Sucks to be you, lol.
>Spider-Men not doing the thing Spider-Man would've done is good writing
Last (You) shillboy
>Spider-verse movie involving Spider-Men where every Spider-Man is the same goody-two shoes as Silver Age Peter Parker à la Ditko is good writing
NGMI
>Didn't watch the show, homie. Don't care. Sucks to be you, lol.
>Didn't watch the show, homie. Don't care. Sucks to be you, lol.
>Didn't watch the show, homie. Don't care. Sucks to be you, lol.
>Didn't watch the show, homie. Don't care. Sucks to be you, lol.
>Didn't watch the show, homie. Don't care. Sucks to be you, lol.
Holy Shill Posting
>not a Spectacularbro
>shill
Aight.
If you wanted a Spider-verse story when every Spidey is together, just go watch the other 99% of them.
One example comes to mind
>Let them die, Miles. Let them all die. After a while, it begins to feel good.
Perfectly in character.
>frick responsibility miles, its all deterministic anyways
peter to a T
>This is why we can't have anything different.
>Movie that is nothing but meta commentary on the spider-mythos instead an anthology of different heroes dealing with different threats
Congratulations on figuring out why the Spider-verse movies suck
>meta commentary on the spider-mythos instead an anthology of different heroes dealing with different threats
That's the premise of a show, anon. Do you REEEAAALLY want a Spider-Verse streaming show? REALLLLLLY?!
>i feel like im talking to a moron
>"oh no, I have webbed up all of the other Spider-Men instead of Miles, and he's getting away!"
Something tells me that would have pissed you off too.
This movie is basically 3 episodes of a streaming show, like releasing the first half of Arcane in theaters (except Arcane looks better and actually ends its first 3 episodes in a sensible place where a sequel would make sense rather than in the middle of a scene)
so now you understand just how awful this movie is written just to show how better miles is than every single spider-man
The main problem is that there's so many fricking spider men in the spider society and not one of them decided to tell Miguel "hey it's pretty fricked up to tell a teenager that he should just his dad die, what if there is a way to save him?". If at least some spideys helped Miles escape it would've been more believable.
I don't think the writers did it out of some cynical intent, I legit believe they wanted a cool chase scene first and then had a weak justification for it afterwards.
1) They already drank Miguel's kool-aid about there being no other option
2) Miguel simply told most of them to chase "the spider-man entering sector 4" without an explanation
And you think this is a good faithful way to write Spider-Men
The only spider-man my heart's breaking over that's still conditioned in Miguel's stupid cult is Spectacular. He can keep the cowboy and the talking car.
You're looking at it from the wrong angle.
Spider Society does not neccesarily have every spider-man. Given that they bring in both Peter B and Peni Parker to let Miles down easy, Noir and Ham would have been in the room too if they were a part of it. So it's safe to assume that Spider Society is ONLY the spider-men who agreed to Miguel's proposition.
Dude there are many versions spiderman we love there.
>Spidey from cartoon I never watched
>Spidey from vidya I never played
No loss.
You don't deserve to be in this thread.
>"MAAAAA! THE MEAN MAN DIDN'T WATCH THE SAME CARTOON I DID! MOMMY! HE'S ATTACKING ME!"
Die.
I just realized that moronic they/them spider-cripple was in the chase for miles
It's okay if you want to post this video, I know you watched it
This isnt plotholes dumbass its the entire plot and theme of the movie
You're doing a whole lot of projecting of your depraved mind, and owning up to intentionally derailing. Just shut up
I'm not the one who brought up Christianity and started whining about how the movie is "nihilistic" and "godless" as if a movie being "godless" is somehow a bad thing.
It's also not projecting to say that Catholic Priests rape children, it's an actual literal fact.
>Atheist manchild rambles garbage
Shut up or I'm going to go back to messaging the animation industry so they can encourage you to do so
You live in God's world, if you don't like that stay in the world inside your head, kids should be raised with good morals instead of superhero death cults
>Shut up or I'm going to go back to messaging the animation industry so they can encourage you to do so
lmao the christcuck thinks he has influence or power. You're not Chris Pratt, fricktard, nobody cares about what you think.
>You live in God's world, if you don't like that stay in the world inside your head, kids should be raised with good morals instead of superhero death cults
Yes, they should be raised (and molested) by 2000 year old death cults instead.
this is the Starwars sequels all over again
this is just Last Jedi
>movie gives miles some character
>everyone calls him a Gary stu
So first he was boring because there's no point to him and now he's a Gary stu because he shows care for his family?
There's still no point to him, what he did in the movie is what any of them would've done, he only appears unique in the movie because this core trait of every Spider-Man was stripped out of all of the others
I hope you shills are getting paid overtime for this because the emotional damage for being publicly embarrassed like this deserves extra compensation
they do it for free
Why does it need shills now in a 70 poster thread? It's just people you disagree with, you dumb cuck.
I refuse to believe anyone is this moronic for free
Oh, so you're getting paid?
no one would pay for shilling of this level, its awful
I'm sorry I'm a moronic centrist, a cowardly fence sitter as you will. I simply think both sides are overreacting.
There are problems, some quite major but I don't think they absolutely break the movie. The bigger problem to me is there isn't a fricking ending and we have to wait for the third film to see if it makes or breaks this apparent two-parter. There should've been some sense of resolution so that at the very least this film can stand on it's own. Gwen reconciling with her dad was more of a side plot, it didn't feel that emotionally impactful.
This tbh, if you have to write paragraphs justifying plot inconsistencies and OOC writing then the film didn't do a good job explaining itself.
At the same time YMMV on how much the problems actually ruin the entire film. This shit is only 9-11 if you're an uber autist, there's so many other things to consider like themes, cinematography, scene composition, sound design, color theory, etc... that goes into making a movie which needs to be taken into consideration when critiquing or praising it.
unfortunately, narrative is pretty important in narrative media.
>At the same time YMMV on how much the problems actually ruin the entire film
The film assassinates the character of every Spider-Man that ever existed so Bendis' abortion could look good in comparison, no amount of themes and cinematography etc can salvage that in a Spider-Man movie. If we took Spider-Man 2 and added a scene where he executes a blindfolded innocent civilian with a gun in an alley somewhere in the middle, it stops being the best Spider-Man movie and becomes the worst one, but even that would just be a random scene easily cut and ignored, here the core premise and more than half the movie's runtime are tied to the moronation, and it'll continue into the next one.
Dude was a dick.
Would bang
>"You can't save everyone, me."
>"But you can save for a PS5."
>and remember to financially support BLM
>swiping shot
>'crime in progress'
The way I see it, a big chunk of this that's causing issue's is that we just don't have enough info on how this shit works.
At the moment, we don't really know much besides what Miguel told us. Many Spidermen go through "Canon" things that happen to most (if not all) of them, and if it doesn't go a certain way, reality gets pissy and kills itself.
The thing is, we don't know WHY it's happening like this.
Is reality being a b***h and saying Spiderman has to suffer? Maybe?
Is reality getting fricked up because outside actors (homies from alt universes) are doing shit they aren't supposed to be, being where they aren't meant to be? Maybe?
Is reality getting messed with by something or someone else, and the "Canon" pathway just a continent thing that works most of the time? Maybe?
Is it all of these things? Maybe?
All this is to say that we have no goddamn clue. I have some ideas and theories, but that's it, it's nothing concreate like getting a total explanation would be, even If people thought the explanation would be stupid.
A theory I have is that multiverses are dying because of the colliders and Spot.
Back on the train when Miguel was seething and raping Miles, he said some things that interested me. While a part of it could totally be just pissed at Miles, I think could know more about what's going on than what he told.
>Miguel: If you hadn't been bit, your Peter Parker would have lived! Instead he died, saving YOU!
>Migel: He would have stopped the collider before it ever went off, Spot wouldn't exist, and NONE OF THIS, WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.
I think that while other universes had colliders, the experiments that Miles universe were conducting and trying to pull were possibly fricking with multiple realities. Because the collider ultimately went off, and Peter Parker (the template for Spiderman we could call it) was submerged in the stream, taking the brunt of it, it's fricking with and influencing other realities with Spidermen.
That's a possibility I guess.
It's actually very simple, there are only two possible outcomes
>Miguel is right, the movie and its writing is moronic
>Miguel is wrong, the Spider-Man and their writing is moronic
Look man, I spent a while writing a gay ass blog about my theory about shit that wasn't even really explained, and maybe won't even be explained even after 10 months.
Could you please explain why both would be moronic?
isn't it even dumber since spider men like Ben Reilly didn't have Uncle Bens or George stacy's in thier mythos at all and are STILL going along the death cult?
Like how the frick can half these spidermen do it? also, was Gwen gonna kill her own dad or some shit? like goddamn she's actually nuts in this movie.
Well Ben kind of does from his perspective even if the memories are technically fake. Either way though Ben might as well not be a clone considering it's never fricking mentioned even though it seems like a pretty big deal to bring up
>Be Ben
>Just cloned
>think you're free from uncle and captain shit
>meet your new neighbor named Uncle.
>He comes from a small town called Ben
>His daughter is called Stacy and is always playing at being a cop.
>the neighbors call her Captain Stacy as joke
>horrified realization
>Movie is about multiverses and how anything is possible
>People crying that the movie Miguel is slightly different from the comics Miguel
its almost like multiversal variants of people are going to have different personalities and arent the same copy and paste person like the movie is trying to say...
Don't bother. They're like children.
I assume someone pointed it out, but Miles is literally doing the exact same thing that Kingpin did and for the exact same reason in the last movie.
and Miles does the same thing as Peter in the last movie, including a few copy and paste scenes where Miles is in place of his universes Peter, before that Peter died.
Anon, Kingpin was trying to destroy the universe to insert himself into the lives of another version of his family, the exact same thing Miguel tried.
Miles is trying to a villain from fricking up the multiverse so no one has to be killed.
Those are two very different things, anon.
>Anon, Kingpin was trying to destroy the universe to insert himself into the lives of another version of his family, the exact same thing Miguel tried.
I swear if Miguel isn’t secretly some supervillain pretending to be him this is the most amazing character assassination in recent. And that’s even looking at MCU’s Abomination.
I really think you're in for disappointment if you think this Miguel was ever supposed to be a 100% faithful re-creation of Spider-Man 2099.
>100% faithful
How about ANYTHING like the fricking character and not making him so fricking shit? What a damage control tactic.
>Bel relieved that Morlun isn’t the villain
>Get Spider Totem bullshit anyways but now Spider Gods are replaced with dead uncles and police captains
Wonderful, thanks Lord and Miller
>Twitter memes
>Twitter filename
Go back there
Reading through this thread and twitter ones it’s insane how many people did not pay attention to the movie at all, I mean I don’t blame them when Gwen’s tight ass is on the screen half the time but come on.
>bring back fan favourites
>shit on all of them
>many of them will never be in a movie or possibly anything ever again
>but simply having them there is enough for mouth breathers to clap because they saw the thing
>bring back fan favourites
>shit on all of them
>many of them will never be in a movie or possibly anything ever again
The authentic spiderverse experience!
I feel so bad for Ben fans
I guess this is the main movie thread
Noticed during the sequence when The Spot and Miles fused together to see their future there's a shot of The Spot floating above a bunch of dead Spidermen.
So much for your useful society Miguel kek
To be fair the spidies in the society deserve to die, so there's no issue.
Spectacular "Sorry Miles, sometimes you gotta look the other wa-AIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE SPOT-SAMA WAIT NO PLEASE! MILES DONT LOOK THE OTHER WAY HELP ME!"
>death cult becomes suicide cult
shouldn't have drank the kool-aid
>Spot kills all the Spiders who ever told a joke.
>Miguel, Prowler, and Miles are the last ones standing
He's gonna job to kicking himself in the ass again.
What if it turns out Spot was just somehow fricking with Miles and he was never going to succeed at killing his dad in the first place?
Anyone else notice how unquotable the movie is? Half of the dialogue is people talking over one another, mumbling long Le quirky lines, and conversation derailment. Unlike Raimiman there’s no lines that are actually memorable or unique.
No Marvel movie has been quoteable for almost 11 years
Why the frick is the Canon event centered around Miles' Dad dying anyway? It's beyond dumb. He got bit by a spider from another universe, his very existence should be the anomaly that causes bad glitch collapse. The Peter Parker version of his reality is gone, the chain of canon around that Spider-Man should be over. Mile's existence is every bit as bizarre and foreign and Renaissance man without any repercussions yet they gloss over it and expect you not to think. Stupid movie. At least it looked nice.
It's almost like... Miguel is wrong about the glitch thing.
Okay, but then why did they go out of their way to prove Miguel right when in the India-verse a Spiderman from an outside Universe (Miles) saves the police captain outside of the canon chain of causality and then everything glitches out and other spideys have to do damage control? The entire concept is paradoxical and dumb. If Miguel is wrong then his and Chai Tea Coffee Coffee land dumb thing to get so pedantic about when countless Tea Bags say "Chai tea" right on them, butthole had no reason to bug out. If he's right, then Mile's universe should be beyond fricked with all of the different Spidermen interfering? And then that HORRIBLE ending, the entire theater moaned out loud in anger. Pissed me off. =I spent $28 and four hours of my time to be disappointed.
>then why did they go out of their way to prove Miguel right when in the India-verse a Spiderman from an outside Universe (Miles) saves the police captain outside of the canon chain of causality and then everything glitches out and other spideys have to do damage control?
For a red herring, dummy.
If the 3rd film drops the ball and says that Miguel was actually right, and Miles somehow finds some way around it, I'll concede. But there's practically no way the movie would say that. Miguel literally suceeded in doing what Kingpin almost did in the last film. He's not supposed to be the good guy here.
>If he's right, then Mile's universe should be beyond fricked with all of the different Spidermen interfering?
The point of Miguel's theory is that, while some events are fluid, certain things have to remain a constant. And anyway, the Spiders weren't supposed to be in Miles' universe. That's why they were glitching out.
>And then that HORRIBLE ending
What was wrong with it? The concept of that universe with no Spider-Man was foreshadowed for the whole film.
>dumb thing to get so pedantic about when countless Tea Bags say "Chai tea" right on them, butthole
Yeah. In America. Miles literally makes that joke about "ATM machines" earlier. It's the same thing.
By horrible ending I meant the film ending during its second act and being a two-parter. That was bullshit. Infinity War had a cliffhanger ending but it had an ending, it didn't just cut-off mid film.
It's almost like every Spiderman is a fricking moron for believing Miguel until Miles came along.
It's almost like all of this is fricking moronic
God the spider society was shit. We couldn't just have had a movie about Miles fighting Spot across the multiverse. No, we gotta have a shitty forced conflict that will just make every other version of spiderman look moronic in the sequel when it turns out Miguel was a moron. Also now we get a movie with no resolution and a terrible cliff hanger instead.
>not even black bros are safe.
I thought the cuckening was only for whities. Why did they cucked Miles so hard by repeating over and over again how Gwen was taking the Big Anarcho wiener every single day?
No they are cucking peter with two bulls.
I love stories where characters take reigns over the narratives and decide their own fate fighting the narrative conventions written for them.
I'm sorry shillkun but making every other spiderman, including more than half of the ones from the first movie, on screen moronic is shitty writing.
>every other spiderman
What the frick did I JUST SAY?!
>including more than half of the ones from the first movie
Peter B is weird, I'll give you that, but Gwen getting goaded into this cult is fitting.
Yeah sure, if you're a homosexual.
>What the frick did I JUST SAY?!
I don't know it's hard to hear with that corporate wiener in your mouth. Your cult cope is such a sad excuse for shitty writing.
>variants
Wow we're really getting into Rick and Morty level of nothing matters shit.
For fricking Spider-man.
Watched the movie today. Why is Cinemaphile calling spider society a death cult? It's a just a bunch of spider man dealing with the trolley problem
Does Cinemaphile also get mad that PS4 Peter didn't give the meds to May?
yeah, they're mad that peter just saved the city without even trying to save both aunt may and the people of the city. he just straight up didn't care for aunt may
Hey I think none of you actually have media literacy or like, the ability to comprehend moving images. Is this what your brain on the 4chinz looks like?
>Some whitey stands on the way of new generation doing their own thang
He's probably a cuck too.
Because they the edgier, inverted Peter Parker into a hard ass obsessed with the "greater good" that borders on being a villain. Because the writers for ATSV are untalented hacks who couldn't think of any other conflict for their movie, or any other character to be the main antagonist, despite the fact that THE SPOT WAS RIGHT FRICKING THERE. GOD FRICKING DAMMIT CAN'T THESE HOLLYWOOD FRICKS DO ANYTHING RIGHT?
*Because they turned the edgier, inverted Peter Parker
I'm reeing at both movies because you have carte blanche to do any spiderman story and it's either peter or miles.
For frick's sake Noir was right there, and you had Nick Cage voicing him, and you had a cute robot spiderman too and you trash them as background characters because no one can be as speshul as Peter or Miles.
Give me a fricking Noir movie, please.
>have all of these interesting characters to choose from
>spend all of the focus on Miles, Gwen, and OCs (some of which share their name with existing characters)
>interesting ones are background characters and the ones with any focus are completely out of character
What a fricking waste
Gankes gonna be prowler miles foil and cuck miles with gwen watch
2099 talks up and down about not ruining canon but can someone tell me how this didnt ruin Gwens canon? Its basically him getting in the way of a story he didnt like and putting them both in time out
also Gwens dad is 100% right with what he was doing
He was about to straight up murder Vulture a second ago with his weird vampire shit and you expect me to believe canon matters
its all BS
The way I see Gwen’s event was put on hold because by removing her, the Police Officer has no spiderman to seek.
The movie was pretty inconsistent though. I think that’s the point as Miguel doesn’t properly understand it and notes that with Luck they can fix through even canon diversions. He is just afraid to risk causing a irreparable diversion which will kill a reality.
Against his favor there is the Indian Spiderman; proof they can diverge from a canon event.
But to his favor, there is the reality he blew up AND a spider biting Miles causing a universe without Spiderman and causality killing off 1610B’s Peter.
You can diverge to an extent. Unfortunately there is no way to tell when you can do that
I think the movie was great and I only hated the cliffhanger ending. It did wonders for me to like Spider-Gwen and Miles. I liked Miguel having an antagonistic role because he was traumatized and the revelation of Miles being bitten by Spider 42 screwing 2 universes in one go was chilling.
>hate the cliffhanger
>wanting the blow the entire load in a 2 hr movie
The problem is that we have to wait a year for part 2 instead of 6 months. It should've been a high-budget animated series split into 10 episodes.
Probably
>I only hated the cliffhanger ending
Ew.
>Felt they could wrap all up in 30 minutes
EW!
>It should've been a high-budget animated series split into 10 episodes
FRICKING EW! None of you ever write any story ever.
Why are the character designs so widely different between the two films? Why is the peter in gwens origin a Peter B lookalike but in Across its some Twink?
Laziness because it was a two second thing in ITSV
They didn't future-proof the movies and expected Into to be a single film. They'll have to remake it.
also, holy shit what happened to her dad?!
If you ignore the hair color and mustache, he actually looks pretty much the same.
Not sure why they chose to change the Peter Parker from her flashback, but the new one is more accurate to the young Peter from Earth-65.
also the fact that he shrunk by like 2 feet both length-wise and height-wise.
Gwen had to get her hormones from somewhere.
lots of designs got changed in the 5 years between ITSV and now
>before Miguel hit the roids
His suit was so perfect..
God those things on his arm look so fricking stupid
No they don't, you're just showing your age.
Yes they do. The arm blades in the original design are sleek enough to fit rule of cool, the new ones are way too fricking big and look moronic. Everything about the new costume is a downgrade
nta but the big blades in the new design are giving me Guyver vibes for some reason.
Nah, again, you're showing your age. It looks great adding a strong silhouette and hard angles that are similar to japanese mecha. Complaining about them while ignoring the web cape on the left is just silly.
The web cape was a great allusion to web pits and it had a functional purpose. These dumb arm appendages look stupid and are impractical. You are showing your age you dumb little zoomie
Shut up. What do you know?
Clunky and overdesigned just like the majority of the characters in the sequel, what was even the point?
hes way too built. spider man is supposed to be slim but muscular.
They got rid of the skull because of the Chinese, didn’t they?
>No Uncle Ben
>No Captain Stacy
Checkmate Michael
Sorry sweetie guess you forgot the one and only mention of Uncle Ben in the MCU in a blink and you miss it easter egg
Also obviously Tony is suppose to be MCU spideys captain / Uncle Ben which is as moronic as it sounds, frick MCU spiderman
That was obviously something they picked up at goodwill or salvation army, otherwise they would have cared more about it blowing up
Did you honestly expect the MCU to value or respect that?
SO, what are the thoughts on the film
on one hand I find it very heartwarming, I really like the personal journeys of Gwen and Miles through this, also Spot and most the characters they introduce into the gang (Punk and Indian Spiderman example) are cool, especially Punk who I was surprised I liked as much as I did
on the other hand pretty much everything having to do with the spider society is just so UGGGGGGH
First off, all the spiderpeople are so OOC with this its insane and completely takes me out of it
Either they are way too villainous to the point its annoying (2099) or treated like complete jokes (scarlet spider) without the redeeming qualities other joke spiders had in ITSV like Noir
Its weird how harshly they are treating the multiverse of fan favorite spidermen when they have this theme going on with Spot of people harmed by the negative reception they get, least thats what I got from Spot
id give it like an 8/10
No thoughts until we see how badly they frick up the third one. Already been on this ride with Pirates and Matrix.
But also frick this movie for ignoring best spider-man
This
My dislike was the cliffhanger. Felt they could wrap all up in 30 minutes but I suppose they will have to explore World 42 and the Sinister Six
>Miles imposter story
>Prowler Miles / Earth 42
>Spot
>Miguel's character arc
>Miles/Gwen betrayal and romance resolution
Wrapping up all that in 30 minutes would have been a shitshow. I'd rather wait 8 months for a proper part 2.
7/10
The spider society stuff is really bad IMO, but all the stuff with the spot was great. I wish we had more time with him.
I liked Mumbaihattan, I didn't like Spiderman India.
9.5/10, with 0.5 point down because of the abrupt ending (although the credit sequence does a good job connecting it to the next movie) and the cringy "Spider-Men pointing at Spider-Men" gag. Rewatched ITSV on Sunday to refresh my memory of it and ATSV is clearly a step up in every way. The characters are better, the relationships are more nuanced and developed, the antagonists are better, and the audio-visual direction is just pitch-perfect. I didn't have a problem with the Spider Society stuff because letting a desperate teenager endanger billions of people over one person would be fricking bonkers if you're an in a position of responsibility.
Same
>theme going on with Spot of people harmed by the negative reception they get, least thats what I got from Spot
Yeah what are they doing with Spot? I mean obviously they need a bigger bad guy then 2099 and his cult so they can get "redeemed" and 2099 can go
"Buh Buh Im a GOOD guy?!?!" only for Gwen to be like "Nuh Uh" because there are zero redeeming qualities to 2099
And they fight Uber Spot
But aside from Spot being the final boss to wrap up the eventual 2099 redemption arc, whats the point of him? How does he tie into the themes?
I dont know if this will sound crackpot but with the tone of his voice here and the way he pronouces the "We" is it at all possible that its some kind of Symbiote?
Anything's possible but it seems a bit much to throw in a symbiote for an additional villain after building up The Spot so much
Why is he always such a dick / antagonist in every piece of media he is in
Why is he suppose to be a good guy
I always assumed he was the anti spiderman like a foil or something, a dark reflection of everything spiderman shouldn’t be or something
this entire trilogy is just about putting miles on a pedestal above all other spider-man. the end goal is just Black worship like all modern american media.
The first movie wasn't. It managed to be about Miles while also establishing that he had big shoes to fill and would have to grow and learn to become half the Spider-Man his Peter was.
They did my boy Miggy wrong in favor of the niggy
>He was unironically right why is Cinemaphile reeeing over him?
No, he caused a incursion and that's forbidden, everyone knows it.
I fricking knew it, I knew something was up when Pavitr looked overdesigned as frick.
This board has convinced themselves that the main conflict of the movie doesn't actually exist because then they can complain about all the spiders believing it does, even though we literally see it happen twice on screen.
Legitimately this board thinks that Miles is going to save his dad and then nothing will happen and then everyone will clap no need for a third act, and have spent the last three days working themselves up over their own fanfiction being badly written.
Miguel IS right. Saving Miles' dad WILL cause the multiverse to begin to collapse, and the climax will be all the Spiders taking advantage of Spot's powers in some way to fix everything, with God Spot's recent existence being the explanation for why none of them could've done this before.
>nothing will happen and then everyone will clap no need for a third act
Fighting Dark Spot is the third act, anon.
But ATSV didn't end suddenly either. Miles got trapped in Earth-42, and his friends are gonna have to rescue him next year.
It really kind of did. They just needlessly dragged this movie to be 2+ hours long with all the dumb bullshit involving the parents or Gwen fricking around, the movie could have cut 40 minutes easily and have more than enough time to have the final battle with Spot