So I don't understand.
They robbed an armored truck for what? I never understood what they stole. A bond? What are they gonna do with that? What the frick is it even worth? How do you fence this? Seems very easy to track and probably has little to no profit from it.
Please explain.
 |
 DMT Has Friends For Me Shirt $21.68 |
|
dude
they're BEARER BONDS
do I have to say more?
untraceable bonds. it's the perfect crime
Everything in the banking system is traceable.
Not with bonds. And not back in the 80s.
those things have serial numbers and tracking numbers. you'd probably be fine in the 80s or 90s but they could still follow you around once the evidence gets discovered after a few days
>those things have serial numbers and tracking numbers. you'd probably be fine in the 80s or 90s but they could still follow you around once the evidence gets discovered after a few days
That's not how it works. LEGALLY, the owner of bearer bonds is whoever is holding them or possessing them at the time of cashing them in. Once it leaves your possession, it's no longer yours, and cannot be proven in court that it was yours. That's why they are so valuable. Completely anonymous and legal protection.
Yes its a very dumb idea by today's standards, and that's why the USA stopped making them. But they will honor any old bearer bonds still in existence or floating around.
Thats what made the bonds so valuable to begin with and why people invested money into the US government and buying them. The USA was a young country back when they made the bonds, and needed a way to give an incentive for people to buy the bonds. They wanted people to invest in the US government to help the country grow.
>hey this such and such serial number from a few of the bearer bonds stolen from a violent armored truck heist showed up somewhere
>go and check cameras and question employees
literally classic police work
You don't seem the get it. The owner of the bond is whoever holds them. There is NO system to track ownership of the bond. Whoever holds it is the owner.
These bearer bonds were originally created back in the old days before telephones were even invented. But the USA stopped allowing new bearer bonds to be made in the 1980s.
you dont seem to understand what a serial number is
That's a treasury bond moron.
post a pic of a bearer bond then and we will see if there is a serial number
Even if there was, it wouldn't be logged necessarily.
the armored truck company probably wouldnt but whoever contracted out the company would if they were smart. why do you think serial numbers even exist
Yeah, this whole conversation is kinda fricking stupid. The movie is about criminals--no one gives a shit about the bond being legally traceable.
If someone stole the bonds and there is a serial number that is unique, then they have to be careful about not creating a trail leading back to the crew. All it takes is someone in the banking system verifying the serial for the original owner.
Hes not going to call the cops. Hes going to call his own crew to investigate.
Shit,the original owner could flip the bond and put his thumb print on it in a corner, and ask around when his bond gets turned in if there were any markings on the back.
He gets the call back, he gets a counter crew, they pull footage, roll tape, and go hunting.
But that's why the fence exists in the first place, he's got to know enough places that the mark wont be aware of linking up with to get the bond converted quietly.
>All it takes is someone in the banking system verifying the serial for the original owner.
That's not how bearer bonds work. You've been told this 20 times in the thread already. There is no original owner. No one (including the government) tracks the owner of the bonds. That's why they were so desirable back in the day.
you dumb af frfr
>you dont seem to understand what a serial number is
1. Thats not even the right bond you idiot.
2. It's like we're talking to a person who can't grasp the idea of non-traceable currency. The serial number on Bearer bonds DOESN'T matter for ownership tracking. There is no system for tracking ownership.
If I have a bearer bond and I give it TO YOU, then YOU are the new owner of the bond in the eyes of the government. There is no legal way to dispute it. The USA doesn't track owners of old bearer bonds like they do with newer bonds. If the bearer bond privately changes hands 50 more times, then the USA had no way of knowing who those new 50 people are. All that matters when it comes to bearer bonds is who is the owner when it comes to CASHING them in at a bank. That's it.
Yes its an exploitable system. That's why the USA stopped making new bearer bonds.
why didnt you post a picture of an actual bearer bond? you wrote all that but didnt find a picture to prove your point? you sussin ngl
>he doesn't know about supernotes
All US currency is serialized as well, doesn't stop large scale basically undetectable counterfeiting.
Yeah moron, the guys who robbed it are going to cash it next door where the police man on the case could notice a none existent and logged serial number and bring them in.
What the frick is a bearer bond?
what the frick is google?
bond = a fancy certificate worth money
bearer = the one holding it owns it and there’s literally nothing you could do to prove otherwise
>sir someone stole $10mil of these particular bearer bonds
>sir also someone appeared with $10mil of those exact same bearer bonds
>I don't see a problem, give the man his money
but anon theyre
b e a r e r b o n d s
Clearly you just need to cash them in fast before word can get round about the theft
Yeah, I'm sure they'll give 10mil cash in hand to a random person with no ID check or anything on file for the transaction.
world is big with trillions of dollars floating around in it. selling 10mil spread across a few banks in out of the country is easy
The whole point is that they're anonymous and no way to trace who owns them outside physical control midwit anon.
The robbers themselves don't need to use the bonds, they can sell them to a fence that will sell them to others and they in turn will decide when to use those. The robbers might keep some of the bonds but they obviously won't use them right after a robbery, they could do so in years and not even send the actual people that committed the robbery.
basically the exact same thing as cash except not issued by the FED
Tell me again why the privately owned FED has a monopoly on currency issuing/printing? Seems like a conflict of interest to me, to have a supposedly public institution serving the big banks instead of the people
How do you propose money printing could serve the people?
Have it printed by a fully state owned entity so the banker fricks don't get to wallow in taxpayer money whenever they feel like raising the interest rates
bearer bonds are unregistered securities.
you buy a bearer bond for say $1000. your name isn't registered to the bond. whoever has the bond is the owner of the bond. it allows for anonymity. corpos issued them to raise cash. great for money laundering, tax evasion and so on. they aren't so popular anymore because the wealthy have better ways to launder money and evade taxes without the security concerns bearer bonds carry.
they're still legal
>still legal
I'm pretty sure they put a stop to it in the US in the 90s or something. Like they stopped issuing bearer bonds even before when Heat was made, and you stopped being able to redeem them sometime after that.
kek
glad to hear IRL heistkino still exists honestly
>glad to hear IRL heistkino still exists honestly
the one in canada at least was non violent. the one in cali i think was violent (threat of force was used) and i think they left the guards at a truck stop or something. armored car found later, emptied. it's actually hilarious the news was saying it was 100-200million of israeliteelry but all of the israeliteelry convention vendors underreported by a LOT, like 10% of the actual value but are still claiming it was 100-200 million and not ~15 million total like they said when they contracted the armored car. and then they complain about their livelihoods getting ruined kek. maybe you shouldnt have been an butthole and under reported the value. i remember hearing the armored truck company was like "it's not our problem you said it was 15 million when it was really 150 million"
They stopped making new Bearer Bonds in the 80s
>and you stopped being able to redeem them sometime after that.
You can still redeem them. Its just that they are rare now. Most Bearer Bond owners have already cashed them in. But if you find an old Bearer Bond in your Grandmother's house, then you can still cash it in.
oh okay. well odds are I'll probably never lay my hands on a bearer bond in my life honestly
thanks for the explanation
Bearer Bonds are certificates that are worth a certain amount of money. They are untraceable and anonymous. The owner is whoever is holding (or bearing) the bond at the time of cashing them in. Hence the name "Bearer" bond.
These bonds were made back in the very early days of the United States as a country. When people would travel across the country to different cities by horse or train. Back when things weren't super connected like they are now. You took your bearer bond with you, and cashed them in a different bank in another part of the United States. No questions asked. Untraceable. Since they are backed by the United States, the bank must honor them.
The United States stopped making new Bearer Bonds in the mid to 1900s as the USA shifted to less anonymous money and wanted to know where people got their money for tax purposes. They will still honor them if you have the bonds, but won't make new ones. So if you have an old bearer bond, it's quite valuable. It's completely untraceable and anonymous.
How soon till they use the same excuse to stop printing cash? Hell, there are zoomers in this very thread who can't wrap their head around the idea that money and transactions can and should be untraceable.
The baseball player?
>dude THEY'RE ANOTHER AMERIMUTT FAKE CURRENCY
the israelites really did a number on you guys
Still doesn't make sense.
If they ever tried to liquidate the bond at a bank, the teller would immediately notice that it's a bond with the same value and from the same issuer as the one that was stolen in an extremely violent robbery that was probably widely publicized.
Even if there's nothing illegal per se about selling the bond, the bank would still report whoever was trying to do so on the suspicion that they were involved in the murder of those security guards.
>Still doesn't make sense.
>If they ever tried to liquidate the bond at a bank, the teller would immediately notice that it's a bond with the same value and from the same issuer as the one that was stolen in an extremely violent robbery
No they wouldnt because the serial numbers do not correspond to owners. There is no chain of ownership with Bearer Bonds. Think back to 1800s when these bearer bonds were made. You rob someone's bearer bonds from their house. Then travel to a different state and cash them. The bank doesn't check and aren't legally required to check either.
You keep thinking in 2020 terms where people have the internet and bunch of other crap to check things. Those didn't exist when bearer bonds were used. No internet. No "database". There's nothing to "check". No video cameras. None of that crap existed back when Bearer Bonds were at their peak.
you really believe if you take a bearer bond to any bank they are obligated to give you a shit ton of cash right then and there no questions asked?
That's exactly how it used to work, that's what we keep telling you.
You don't believe it but it's true.
in the 1800s maybe, but not for the period that heat is portraying
>in the 1800s maybe, but not for the period that heat is portraying
Bearer bonds were made up until the 1980s. You can still redeem them today if you have one.
It's like trying to explain to my zoomer nephew what people did before smartphones existed. I told him we phones called landlines that were attached to your hous, and we had phonebooths in public places.
He looked at me like I was crazy and said, "A phone that was attached to your house??? That's stupid! No one would do that. Stop lying. "
Yes. That's literally how Bearer Bonds worked. You can watch Documentaries and research it if you really care to learn about it yourself. Do you think a US bank in the year 1822 is going to do all the nonsense you mentioned?
Bearer bonds are almost like cash. It's why people stored them in vaults or in armored safes. Transported only with armed guards.
Jesus fricking christ zoomer, SHUT THE FRICK UP!!!
>you really believe if you take a bearer bond to any bank they are obligated to give you a shit ton of cash right then and there no questions asked?
Yes anon. That's how they used to work. That was how the government got you to buy Bearer Bonds for hundreds of years. But they stopped doing like in the 80s because they wanted to track where the money came from.
What the frick do you think a bearer bond is
>What the frick do you think a bearer bond is
Nobody who went to public school has any fricking idea what any kind of bond is. They learn how to balance a checkbook and that's it for their financial education.
Livestock don't need to know how to run a farm.
You're a grown man who lives with his mom. Relax.
I'm totally calm, and every word I typed is simply the unvarnished truth.
Don't you know word is bond? Shit's important.
They were hired by the guy who owned the bonds. The idea was he’d claim back on the insurance from the theft... pay the crew, but actually keep the bonds since they’d just hand them back
No. They came up with the idea to sell them back to him once they learn the original owner is somewhat in the criminal world. Their fence tells De Niro "He's a player"
They were planning on selling it to the creeper in Caldera
Underrated as frick
Money Agagagagagagagagaga
Henry Hill explained a scheme involving bearer bonds in the book Goodfellas was based off of, if you had financial connections in Europe, you could somehow deposit bonds there and use them as collateral against loans in the US. So it was essentially $1.3 million in loan collateral forever.
Bearer bonds. Everybody was stealing them in the movies from the 80s and 90s. Die Hard did the same thing.
Can someone explain how the frick this guy got on the job? These guys are supposed to be extreme professionals. The best of the best. You could tell this guy was shady as frick the second he came on the screen. Who the frick vouched for him, and why didn't DeNiro shut it down immediately?
he was slick
why the frick they needed him to begin with?
they could have done the job without him the same way.
what was the point?
There's no answer and it's why Heat is actually trash.
Thief is so much better and it NEVER gets discussed on Cinemaphile
based
caan and jim belushi's best role. plus the babe was an actually great actress
yeah man thief was aesthetically perfect up their with the american friend
thief is cool but sorta just an extended 70s crime drama episode
the villain is a bit silly
heats a lot better put together, and you could turn it on at any time and be right in it
>the villain is a bit silly
lol the villain seemed legit to me
>villain is a bit silly
lmao the intimidation scene alone mogs anything in heat (except maybe the diner scene when Tom Sizemore gives *the stare*)
>thief is cool but sorta just an extended 70s crime drama episode
thief was a revolutionary film, fricko. it invented the modern action film even though it wasn't an action film
wrong Heat and clearly and obviously superior to Thief
I dont see it
I love james caan and the visuals are lush
heats just got too many great stretches and scenes
wow, panic room stole the "camera flys into the keyhole" shot from THAT movie? Pity that I fricking hate Caan's guts, he looks like the picture next to "boomer" in a dictionary
He HAD to get it on.
he looks like a guy whose got to get it on
He has that "cool guy" look.
It’s all explained in heat 2. Please read my book
Books based I know for a fact dude. Chris leaves his wife to do criminal shit for an Asian crime syndicate in south America. Great read. Hope they don't make it into a bad movie.
the one flaw in the story of this kino. they could have made him a little less obvious and maybe just a hot head where they had no idea he was capable of fricking shit up
I like the character because of how ridiculous he is. I like Mann's films but every now and again his old israelite boomer tendencies come out and stand out too much.
The biggest flaw is everything that happens after the heist.
Which is like a whole hour where nothing interesting happens and De Niros character suddenly decides to be a dumb fricknut.
some guy in prison vouched for him
The guy who vouched for him:
%27sGoodHD
that movie absolutely fell apart in the last act.
I like how de niros are went from "I need this guy on my team even though he probably fricks up" to " I need to kill this guy and frick up everything in the process".
Because DeNiro had to get it on too, he just didn't have the time to pick and choose
Because Michael Mann cannot resist depicting whitey as inherently evil and Christ adjacent in look and purpose.
Michael Mann literally named one of his kids Canaan.
IYKYK
>Can someone explain how the frick this guy got on the job?
honestly the story would have worked better if it was one of the core crew who fricked up and there was more of a dilemma with what to do with him
>These guys are supposed to be extreme professionals
Armed robbers are the lowest tier criminals, dumb as shit. Heavy sentences, high chance of death, low reward.
The only sensible bank robbers are in Hell or High Water or Place Beyond the Pines (before full moron), targeting small isolated places with zero security.
>hell or high water
>hit up a bank right next to the diner immediately after you were eating at because frick it
>only reason why you weren't immediately identified by detectives is because all of the witnesses hated the bank
The brother was the hothead yolo-type, culminating in the final heist
>don't case the joint, end up walking in during it's busiest period all week.
To be fair, the brother did seem like he was really good at poker. He could've probably just made all the money that way.
They sold them back to the owner. And then he tried to kill them. Did you watch the movie?
How did this thread get 15 replies in the last 13 minutes but I never noticed it?
ya snooze ya lose, nerd
I truly hope you get run over by a bus tomorrow and it doesn't kill you for hours.
There are no buses where I live, homosexual.
"Whoever physically holds the paper on which the bond is issued is the presumptive owner of the instrument. This is useful for investors who wish to remain anonymous.
Recovery of the value of a bearer bond in the event of its loss, theft, or destruction is usually impossible. Some relief is possible in the case of United States public debt.[1] Furthermore, while all bond types state maturity dates and interest rates, bearer bond coupons for interest payments are physically attached to the security and must be submitted to an authorized agent in order to receive payment.[2]
Issuance of new bearer bonds has been effectively outlawed in the United States since the 1980s due to their use in illegal activities, but bearer bonds issued before this date can be redeemed if the issuer still exists."
Has there ever been any truly successful bank heist done by professionals with a 20 step plan and they got away with it? Surely there has.
there's even a series about this one but I have no idea if it's good
nvm now I see it and they managed to (apparently) get everyone over the years though who the frick knows the truth when it comes to brazilian police
Yeah, it was the 2008 Recession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antwerp_diamond_heist
Do you know how much money disappeared the day before 9/11?
Yes, but bank robberies are intentionally kept out of the press. I remember a guy who got away with 15-20 robberies (that he admitted) by waiting for the armored car to drop off weekend deposits at like 8:30 before the bank opened and then just breaking out the front window and walking in and taking all the money while it was still in bags. That's probably the most brilliant one I know of.
>bank robberies are intentionally kept out of the press
Where did you hear that? Not only aren't bank robberies kept out of the press, but the police encourage press coverage and give bank robbers nicknames since public awareness leads to tips and makes them easier to catch.
I think the main guys behind the great train robbery got away with it.
That's a genius plan.
If you're referencing the Crimean gold heist in the 1850s (first train robbery) they got caught and the trial transcripts still exist. M. Chrichton wrote a book and directed the movie with Sean Connery and Donald Sutherland.
Supplying arms to ukraine
Wasn't there this israeliteel robbery in Sweden where they escaped by boat?
Pretty recent I think.
burrowing burglars
Sure newbie
>The Federal Reserve
>9/11
>Iraq "War"
>2008 bailout
>COVID "relief" stimulus bills
>Ukraine "War" effort
>The entire "state" of Best Ally
"relief" stimulus bills
>>The entire "state" of Best Ally
Idgi, can someone redpill me on these two?
Businesses were failing from the pandemic, government issues free money to keep the economy from crashing
Commence widespread fraud from any moron( (genius) who applied for it
Israel gets 6 gorillion in aid every year to basically be a "allied" (lol. lmao.) outpost in the middle east
bank heist in germany. they held the customers and employee hostage and demanded a few millions in cash to buy some time knowing the police cant get money that fast. the robbers wanted to break the safe-deposit boxes. the bank somehow heard about the millions they wanted and sent a bus full with cash within a few hours. they escaped later with a tunnel they digged months earlier. they set a fire in the tunnel etc to destroy evidence.
police later found some polish snacks but they don't know if it was real or a decoy
The most successful robbers don't require 20 step plans like in the movies. The bank robbery in 'The Place Beyond the Pines' was based on the methods used by a guy who successfully robbed banks for 30 years before turning himself in.
You should read about these guys:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Panthers
no one that knows what they are doing is going to knock off a bank. cash is way too traceable so then the best way to do it is buy drugs with it to "clean" the cash then you have another set of problems. israeliteelry is always the primary option for "professionals" because of its difficulty to track and ability for gold and such to be melted down. these day israeliteels do have serial numbers though so it's a little harder finding a fence able to deal with it
art laundering is for those who know what they are doing, though i tihnk the FBI has stopped that basically. Wealth went to fiat bc its infinitely more secure than gold deposits. Stealing will get you no where unless youre collecting a tax, laundering and tax evasion are the patrician crimes
What's it like being a thief? Not being able to do anything on your own? Only being able to steal from others? I would literally kill myself if I was that pathetic.
>Not being able to do anything on your own
You steal on your own? What do you mean?
You know what I mean. You really are a pathetic frick. You haven't had an authentic thought in your whole pathetic life.
Sounds like you got robbed. I don't know what you mean. If your profession in life is armed robbery and you devise strategic plans to rob people and entities, you are doing things on your own.
You should take your grudge with federal tax system, not the people who don't follow it.
I'm a thief. Not a pro bank robber like those guys but I do steal. It feels good making you wagecucks seethe and making money without doing any actual work. Tick tock wagie, it's work time, you gotta make it in time or your boss Mr. Grossberg is gonna replace with another soulless slave. Just go! So I can break in to your place
kane from the game kane & lynch is a lot like the guy who started killing the armored car guards
>taking guys who aren't solid out on a job
NOT
MY
CALL
>"hey can i get another refill"
>leaves
what did they mean by this
to this day I still don't get it
the screenwriter wanted to show his unprofessionalism, he left his fingerprints on the cup
why do morons still physically rob shit. beyond a crackhead why would anyone think they can get away with robbing a bank or something big? even ifpull it off you or one of your friends will frick up and rat at some point in the future. literally 100 other ways to steal exist
what are the other 1000 ways to steal bro? asking for a friend....
there have been two huge gold heists this year in north america. the one in cali is upwards of 100-200 million because it was an armored truck for a israeliteelry convention and everyone undervalued their items for cheaper transit. the other was more recent and from the toronto airport. looked like a fake armored car getting into the secure area and loading up the gold. the only thing the canadian cops have from what i heard was they waited at a cafe with their armored truck and disguises for about 15 minutes before. both were probably inside jobs, probably armored car drivers or something with inside knowledge
those numbers are super highly inflated for headlines and they will get caught. good luck pawning a $10 million dollar diamond to anyone besides a saudi prince. all they have to do is make one little mistake trying to make contact or any of the middlemen making the sale and the whole operation gets arrested when someone flips
did you even watch better call saul? israeliteelry and gold are easy to offload
Almost all bank robbers are caught after multiple, multiple robberies. Anyone could get away with it a few times easy. And no, there aren't 100's of ways for the average person who is desperate enough to rob a bank to steal cash.
My dad robbed Nintendo's bank when he worked there.
bearer bonds, to sell the bonds back to the owner, who will also collect on the insurance.
Bearer bonds in the past were similar to what bitcoins are today without the volatility
why not just steal cash why do movies make it bearer bonds
>cash can be traced
when was the last time you gave a cashier a 20 and they ran the serial number
>why not just steal cash why do movies make it bearer bonds
Because the US government is the one who issues the bond and they don't give Bearer Bonds out anymore. The stopped doing it decades ago.
It's not that. It's when the money starts getting deposited back into the bank, they can slowly hone in on where it was spent.
o that makes sense
Come to think of it, it'd probably be possible to George Floyd your way through life by making somewhat convincing fake bills (convincing enough to trick the 'jeets or teenagers working as cashiers) and only ever using them to pay for minor stuff at separate locations.
I think I can shed some light on why bearer bonds were such a popular plot device in old heist movies. In short, Hollywood was based back then and tried to actually teach viewers something about how ~~*the mafia*~~ works.
Bearer bonds were issued by the US government so that ~~*the mafia*~~ could launder money.
Wikipedia says that from '09-12, the italian financial police seized $134.5 billion in fake US bearer bonds kek
Probably one of the reasons they were outlawed. Even the people using them must have gotten tired of being duped by fake ones.
>steal anonymous bonds
>instead of keeping them, accept a low pay from someone else
and these should be criminals=
what i never got was why they called this movie "Heat". what a random title.
Did you fall asleep? Deniro explains the movie title like 2 or 3 times
Yeah they should have called it "Cool" because all the characters are cool criminal guys. They're Cool calm and collected even then the Heat is on them from the cops
>I never understood what they stole. A bond?
They were finna to diversify it
It's a free country, brother.