I understand this movie runs more on emotional juice than rock-solid internal logic, but still, I have questions:
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Hol Up
I understand this movie runs more on emotional juice than rock-solid internal logic, but still, I have questions:
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Ape Out Shirt $21.68 |
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Was Miles' spider supposed to bite Miles G. in its source universe, or rather the Peter Parker native to it?
How is Miles argued to be an anomaly and not a real Spider-Man if he got his own dead-uncle "canon event", and also his universe and the one the spider was "stolen" from aren't unraveling?
If a possible answer to that last question is that the Spot is the manifestation of that unraveling because the process isn't spontaneous and there's actual causality involved, how does Miguel account for the destruction of the Universe in which he replaced a dead Miguel, and why does he connect the unraveling of Munbattan to the disruption of a native canon event rather than to the visit of The Spot?
Is the Society supposed to be aware that Miguel is basically a fake Spider-Man himself by the terms of his own backstory?
In general, why does everybody in the Spider-Society, an organization composed of literal hundreds of people who, on average, are supposed to have genius-level intelligence and that by definition are exactly as qualified as each other, take order from Miguel and accept his theories and explanations at face value, including the concept of "canon events" and the consequences of disrupting them?
Even buying into those theories, how does replacing one's own alternate self disrupt a "canon event"?
Also, is Miles G. as the Prowler supposed to be a criminal, or a dark antihero? The artbook calls him a "vigilante"
>Yes, you can see the both of them in the Spot's monologue before the spider is pulled into Miles' dimension.
>He's still a Spider-Man and the universes aren't collapsing because nobody has interfered in his canon events (ignoring Miguel himself.) Anomalies are only dangerous to the universe if they threaten to interrupt an event, which is why the Society just sends them back to their own dimension. Plus, his existence did result in his universe's Spider-man dying when he should have survived. (This doesn't result in the universe collapsing because presumably, dead Spider-Men don't undergo canon events, being dead.) The way I rationalize it, he's an anomaly that miraculously managed to unknowingly return everything to a stable balance before interrupting anything.
>Maybe? He implies that the Spider-Society has seen many universes collapse after interfering canon events. The Spot just triggered one.
>Probably not. Although being technical, there are a lot of Spider-Men there who were never bitten, so it must not be a canon event.
>It's not face value, you SAW a universe start to collapse after someone interfered with a canon event and a bunch of Spider-Men had to jump in with specialized equipment to save it. The society knows enough about them that they can literally track when and who they're going to happen to. Miguel implies they've watched some universes disappear entirely. Maybe there is an alternate reason for the universe's collapsing, but when it starts every time an event is disrupted, that's pretty strong evidence that the disruption is causing it.
>It's never explained. By Miguel's own theory, it shouldn't have happened, and it'll probably be revealed that there was an alternative cause.
>Miles G is a straight up hero, as shown in the leaked animatic, where he and Aaron fight against Kingpin.
Unfortunately I generally got the impression of tons of red flags suggest that Beyond (and Across in hindsight) will mostly hinge plotwise on Miguel being full of shit to some degree. I'm not sure of how far will they be willing to go, but at the very least I smell he didn't simply "find" an Universe with a Miguel-shaped hole ready for him to slip into the life he desired.
Basically Miguel isn't as smart as he thinks he is, he doesn't have all of the facts, and he'd rather peel his own skin off with a rusty potato peeler than admit that he might be wrong about everything. He's five seconds away from demanding to speak to the manager of the great web of life and destiny.
>He's five seconds away from demanding to speak to the manager of the great web of life and destiny.
I like this analogy.
Honestly, it's probably just bad planning, and the nature of "canon events " isn't properly explained either. It could be said that Miguel going to another world and basically destroying it was a canon event for him, since that was what inevitably made him go back to his own timeline, but none of that seems to matter in the greater scheme of things in the movie for some reason. Most occurrences in the characters' lives seem unimportant except for a family member dying, which i understand is a wink to the usual spiderman story, but other than that, it doesn't make much sense. It's weird that someone accidentally becoming spiderman is an anomaly, considering the amount of universes there are, and if it's such a big and rare situation, then how come that's not Miles' canon event? Also, if the whole thing about him being spiderman is a mistake, wouldn’t that somehow destroyed a world like in Miguel's and Indian spiderman's case? Supposedly, he interrupted the other Miles' canon in doing so, but nothing really happened in neither realitiesq, apart from obviously that Miles turning into a villain or whatever, but if that's the case, why would main Miles let his father die, when we know for a fact that altering a canon event isn't necessarily destructive? They wanted that changing things in other universes was a big thing, but it's very arbitrary and inconsistent, so they would have to try and explain all of that firts.
It's exactly what Hobie said.
>calling yourself a hero makes you a self-mythologizing narcissistic autocrat
Self-mythologizing: the Spider-Society treats the events of their lives as events of significant cosmic importance, and "canon" is a religious term.
Narcissistic: they believe that the events of their lives MUST happen or the universe will end, as if they are the only people who matter, and all those dead uncles, police captains and love interests are just walking plot devices.
Autocrats: they're hellbent on enforcing the canon no matter what, and unwilling to listen to dissenters.
Hobie is the realest person in the movie.
unironically didn't see that from this angle. damn.
Hobie was foreshadowing that the Spider-Society wasn't what Miles thought it was from the goddamn beginning. He's stealthily mentoring Miles from the moment they meet. Even his "make your own watch" comment was foreshadowing.
This probably all hinges on the collective belief that if they frick up a Canon event in their home universe, it dies without them being able to save it even if Miguel is wrong. Makes sense they won't take any risks and follow the orders, considering they delayed one being destroyed in the movie they probably have seen multiple instances of it happening / have had to test it before
Spiderman is a genius
You're telling me all these geniuses didn't think to question it?
Sure, but the whole canon thing still doesn't make sense, and the already stablished rules don't really apply at all times, so the more you think about it, the less you care about what happens in different universes to different spidermen.
It would definetely make sense if the group consisted of a few hundred spidermen, and even that is kind of reaching, but there are thousands of spidermen with plenty of different backstories and circumstances. They also have one machine that somehow knows everything about every spiderman. Despite these two facts. the movie imples:
1. There has never been a point in the whole history of any spiderman in any universe where someone became a spiderman when they weren't supposed to until main Miles, which is weird, since by the time Miles became spiderman a lot of shit should have happened in the multiverse.
2. That if you change facts/interact too much in another universe, it'll collapse. But despite that, main Miles becoming spiderman when he wasn't supposed didn't do anything in his world, nor the world of the Miles who was meant to be spiderman.
3. That the canon events for every spiderman is the death of a family member. Despite this, Miguel from that one universe died, and another one tried to take his place, which means that a canon event isn't necessarily the loss of a family member, and could be something different. This is one of the most problematic aspects of the film, since it really begs the question of what the hell can be considered a canon event specifically, and since this already implies that it could be something more than just the death of a family member, then how is it possible to know what constitutes a canon event. You could argue that it might be something that completely changes the structure of that Peter's world, but by that logic main Miles becoming spiderman against all odds should be the canon event for him. cont.
Cont.
Another thing tied to the canon thing not having any rules is that the movie implies that the death in the family happens to a spiderman, which means that if a Peter in a particular world isn't meant to be spiderman, then he won't necessarily suffer a loss, which would explain the Miguel situation. However, the Miles that was supposed to be spiderman and ended up becoming the Prowler instead also had a death in the family, since his father died, meanwhile main Miles' father is still alive, but, since it's a canon event, his father has to die eventually. You could argue that both fathers had to die since in one timeline he was supposed to be spiderman and that was enough reason for his father to die, and since main Miles became spiderman regardless of whatever was meant to be, his father automatically had to die, but, if this is the case, then why Gwen's dad could survive that fate without making the world collapse, or at all, for that matter.
All of this makes canon events seem not so canon at all, since you can break any rule at any given time, and nothing much will happen. The movie says that it will, but there are details that simply don't add up to that, and it's not on purpose to forshadow anything, since it's never been established that a canon event has ever been avoided (Even though it technically has, but not in the most direct way).
A lot the problems this film had was meta commentary not blending well with the actual world and what they built up at that point.
Mauler describes the problem fairly well here.
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Wait until the next movie
In a way I'm disappointed the movie doesn't even try to be standalone, but that at least made it possible to add a final act that wasn't just the obligatory hectic battle like what we will get for the final movie.
>take order from Miguel and accept his theories and explanations at face value, including the concept of "canon events" and the consequences of disrupting them?
He likely has the most scientifically advanced world out of all of them, making for the best home base. Plus, Miguel did mention there were spider scientists studying how to reduce canon events.
For the last question it seems Miles is going against the Sinister Six in his universe. There's also a discarded animation of Miles and Aaron robbing a hospital(?) and giving some medicine to his mother during her work.
On one hand that makes the contrast between the two Miles less interesting, but I guess it's better for the character if the heroism in him is validated as independent from getting handed the mantle of spider-man.
Just realize that Miles' braids make him look like a goat... You know, the satanistic animal? Baphomet and shit...
>42 Miles was in school when the spider would have bit him
>1610 Miles was slacking off school work and hanging out with Uncy Prowler
That's a cool detail actually, I never noticed that lol
I mean yes that's cute but where do you get the fact that Miles G. would have been in school?
In the Spot's flashback.
0:16-0:34
He is still a good kid at heart. Making him go truly evil wouldn't make sense. It's not in his character
Think about it though. In his world, Jefferson is dead, but Aaron is alive. Without positive influences like Peter and Jefferson, Miles would be influenced by Aaron instead. Even that was foreshadowed all the way in the first movie. Remember when Miles meets his Peter and their spider-senses go off? Miles' is originally purple and green before becoming red and blue like Peter's.
Yes I know that but just because his father died and he started looking up to his uncle doesn't mean he has to go all evil. Even Aaron in the deleted scene was helping Miles get the stuff to his mother. Remember that the original Prowler didn't become a villain for the sake of being evil, life didn't turn out great for him and so he had to go for a life of petty crime. Miles is not a bad person.
He probably didn't jump off the slippery slope. It probably started with Aaron framing it as helping Rio pay the bills after Jefferson died. Like how a lot of career criminals got started. And keep in mind the hellhole that their New York has become, it's the kind of place where being bad is more rewarding than being good. It's basically a lesson on how bright young men with tons of potential can squander their future because they had the misfortune to be born into shitty circumstances.
You could probably be right but we will need to wait and see. I wouldn't mind an evil miles but a vigilante one would also be cool.
PS4 Prowler had also gone straight for a time until Jefferson died and he found out Miles was Spider-Man, and even then only came out of retirement to protect Miles by forcing him to quit being Spider-Man. There's plenty of room to work with Prowler to not make him a flat-out villain that Miles G could look up to as a positive role model and mentor
Aaron is basically a foil to Peter B in the first movie. Aaron is superficially a cool uncle, but he turns out to be a ruthless supervillain under the cool mask. Peter B is superficially a loser, but he turns out to still have what it takes to be a superhero under the flabby, janky hobo mask. Both of them play pivotal roles in Miles' character development, he brings out the best in both of them, and both of them are willing to die for him.
"good kid, m.A.A.d city"
My question is: why do all spider-people retain their "native" art style in other universes except for Spider-Gwen? In the first movie it kinda worked because they didn't go as hard with the smudgy painterly look for the characters themselves in her universe, but in the second movie there's a more obvious visual difference even in low-key shots like these. Yeah I know I'm just nitpicking and it's because her introduction in the first movie wouldn't work otherwise plus they wanted to go nuts with multiverse visuals in the second.
Gwen's universe is just Miles' in terms of Artystyle, but different color shading to match her suit. Same for Peter B. All 3 have the same universe, but different color palette. This is to emphasize that Gwen & Miles are alike, and Miles is Peter B's pupil.
Not really, the difference in art styles isn't as as extreme as say with Hobie's, but in terms of line and texture there are differences equivalent to Miguel's art style for example, but Miguel retains his overshot outline strokes and bold "spiky" shading in both Gwen's and Miles' universes. Gwen adopts the local style in the latter, but displays an intermediate style throughout the Nueva York scenes for example, less extreme in the simplified/blended shading and with less outline strokes but also lacking the ben day dots extras in the shading. And then in the orbital elevator scene (still in Nueva York) she gets the Miles style back in full for some reason; that one may have been just technical convenience.
Again, I get why they did the variable style thing originally and I do think it doesn't really matter, but there's SOMETHING there that doesn't matter.
damn she's UGLY
>marvel slop
PEE. FRICKING YEW.
anyway, when it comes to these perverts and lazy, copy and paste it bull preppers and dry c**ts, feelings and laundered money and pedophilia > logic and legitimacy. don't like it? tough shit. it's tailor made so even a toothless moron can slurp it down. shut your homosexual mouth and lap it up, b***h.
Canon events are fricking stupid and not thought out at all