Writers and directors fired, to be completely retooled. Marvel television in complete disarray.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/daredevil-marvel-disney-1235614518/
Hollywood Reporter: Disney's DAREDEVIL Scrapped with Several Episodes in the Can
It didn’t take long to see the problem after Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again paused production mid-June during the writers strike. Fewer than half of the series’ 18 episodes had been shot, but it was enough for Marvel executives, including chief Kevin Feige, to review the footage and come away with a clear-eyed assessment: The show wasn’t working.
So, in late September, Marvel quietly let go head writers Chris Ord and Matt Corman and also released the directors for the remainder of the season as part of a significant creative reboot of the series, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. The studio is now on the hunt for new writers and directors for the project
This is good news. The first step in fixing a problem is realizing you have a problem.
now the next step: don't make it EVEN WORSE
>18 episodes
Fricking why, that's a terrible idea
Hopefully this'll mean they bring back more of the actual Netflix cast. Foggy, Karen, Gladiator, and ESPECIALLY Bullseye have all already been set up and well-established, and it was insane for Marvel to just throw them aside.
I think it was actually a pretty good idea, at least in theory.
One of the major problems I think Disney+ shows have had (particularly the Marvel ones) is that they're all miniseries, or at least are 8-10 episodes or less, in an attempt to get some of that 'miniseries prestige'. And most of the time that means they've just ended up making a overly long, horribly drawn out movie (Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Moon Knight, Secret Invasion), because Marvel Studios doesn't know how to make a television production. 18 episodes is much closer to a classic full season of television, and it likely would've forced them to tailor the concept specifically into being either serialised, or being more episodic like the good old days of TV.
But, judging from this report, that obviously hasn't worked in the slightest for improving the quality here. Seems the problem here is more so the fundamental creative decisions.
Don't forget VANESSA
Maybe they can get the original actress back now that her schedule is cleared.
YOU DARE MENTION HER NAME
GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
Apparently Vanessa was being full-on recast, despite D'Onofrio returning as Kingpin. Pants-on-head moronic.
Don't forget no Nelson. Hope they call him up now they have ditched that shit.
Straight up homophobia and gay erasure, everyone knew that Matt was supposed to end up with Foggy at the end but Disney literally got rid of him and replaced him with another thot girlfriend who probably dies at the end.
Foggy was coming back but not as his law partner cause Matt got snapped for 5 years so he moved on. It was karen who was cut completely with a new love interest.
I thought he was going to die to establish Muse as the new villain?
>Muse
Ugh. Mister Fear is the obvious choice.
>Muse
I'm still not sure how that would've worked considering
>Disney
>Apparently Vanessa was being full-on recast, despite D'Onofrio returning as Kingpin. Pants-on-head moronic.
That's because Ayelet Zurer had a scheduling conflict with another show she was starring in, which was ironically cancelled on the same day her recast was announced
I'd feel bad for the recast actress, but the race change thing was unnecessary af. At least they can get the original actress back.
>18 episodes is much closer to a classic full season of television, and it likely would've forced them to tailor the concept specifically into being either serialised, or being more episodic like the good old days of TV.
From the leaks and plot rumors, it seemed like it was going to be structured like Andor where 2-3 batches of episodes were seperated into distinct arcs and storylines, like one had Daredevil deal with the Punisher, while Fisk's mayoral campaign was going to be the overarching narrative of the season.
And since they're about to introduce adamantium in next captain america, they can give it to bullseye.
I think this is good news overall if Marvel is actually straight up canning upcoming projects that they think are shit, shows that they're seriously changing their approach in the future.
At the same time, I am worried that this means Born Again is going to end up becoming another modern eight episode serialized TV show rather than the 18 episode count that was initially promised, I was ambivalently interested to see another modern TV show return to the old 12-16 episode format, especially one set in the MCU so it's going to be disappointing if turns into another extended movie. Also Matt really should do more lawyer stuff, he barely did any legal work in the original Netflix show.
I don't disagree, some engaging courtroom drama would be great. But I doubt they'd allow for the quality of writing that would see that through.
Hot take but Matt's courtroom scene in She-Hulk was pretty good, it demonstrated Matt's proficiency at his job and characterized his position and stance on the wider superhero community of the MCU, even if you did not watch the original Netflix show, you immediately knew what his deal was.
In contrast, I don't think he came out as a very good as a lawyer in the Netflix series, it was Foggy Nelson who carried their firm.
That scene really surprised me because of how fricking incompetent it made She-Hulk look in her own show
I was expecting her to lose only because of a biased judge or something
Are you twelve? The “old” format is 22 episodes. No more no less unless it was a pilot. The writers strike of 2007 ruined TV and began the “split the season in two” method which also eliminated a couple of episode counts on shows contracted after (shows still on contracts from before 2007 had the same episode counts but stil introduced a longer winter break)
HBO was doing 13 episodes since like The Sopranos, which was the best balance for serialized-episodic hybrid TV.
HBO isn’t traditional television, that was always the selling point.
It kind of became the norm though
I didn’t dispute that. I disputed the fact that the TV convention was anything less than 22.
They need good scripts before they start filming
In a just world. They might just decide to go the Multiverse of Madness route and film all the action and tell a Writer and Director to stitch it all together.
>The studio is now on the hunt for new writers and directors for the project
if only the netflix team had started writing s4 when they found out it had been cancelled
As much as the shock cancellation of Netflix Daredevil hurt, I'm just glad they somehow saw the writing on the wall before us and got to more or less wrap it up with Season 3. It's a pretty good ending, even if they were setting up stuff like Bullseye.
Plus, it means that if Born Again ends up sucking, we can just ignore the Disney crap. It'll be like Star Wars, except with horns.
CAN'T WAKE UP
SAVE MEEEEEEEEEEEE
sources say that Corman and Ord crafted a legal procedural that did not resemble the Netflix version, known for its action and violence. Cox didn’t even show up in costume until the fourth episode. Marvel, after greenlighting the concept, found itself needing to rethink the original intention of the show. Marvel plans to keep some scenes and episodes, though other serialized elements will be injected.
Those who work with Marvel on the TV side have complained of a lack of central vision that has, according to sources, begun to afflict the studio’s shows with creative differences and tension. “TV is a writer-driven medium,” says one insider familiar with the Marvel process. “Marvel is a Marvel-driven medium.”
Im highly morbidly interested in that first version since I have a soft spot for well put courtroom stuff but at the same time i highly doubt they got something like cape law and order of my cousin vinny so my hope is were not missing much.
marvel tv in charge of knowing what their characters are actually about before the cgi smoke and mirrors. A Daredevil court show sounds pretty good, what’s the problem?
I'm not surprised but it's insane they wanted to have him suit up in episode 4 after 3 episodes of court drama.
Also, they were making these without showrunners or series bibles? And it took them 9 shows to re-think that?
The sheer arrogance of the producers that the brand alone could excuse shit TV
>suit up in episode 4 after 3 episodes of court drama.
That sounds kino as frick.
You mean boring
How is well written and compelling character drama boring?
You're expecting that from Disney. Your first mistake.
>moving goalposts
Kys
That's the usual set up Disney has done with their shows recently. First 3 or 4 with nothing happening at a glacial pace. Then a few episodes of actual development, then a rushed ending.
>The sheer arrogance of the producers that the brand alone could excuse shit TV
That's been Disney Star Wars since the Beginning and Marvel post End Game. The idea that the brand is enough carry it.
They weren't wrong though
Star Wars barely lasted a Movie before it's decline set in and it's TV shows fared no better post Season 1 Mando. Andor was pretty good but everyone was burned out by then. I'd not be surprised to see season 2 axed sadly.
And Marvel TV has been a dumpster fire since WandaVision
I mean't stuff like Mando S2 and Ahsoka, they weren't good on their own but they were absolutely carried by all the cameos and fanservice. Even Obi-Wan Kenobi had people going "at least Hayden and Darth Vader was in it".
Five Minutes of Hayden doing Saber Shit doesn't save a show that is utterly trash.
Just makes me feel bad for a guy who loves to do Saber work not getting a show where he murder fricks the last of the Jedi.
Ashoka wasn't carried by anything. It's viewing numbers are shit
Even though the company does not have a writers-first approach to TV, directors could feel short-changed as well. “The whole ‘fix it in post’ attitude makes it feel like a director doesn’t matter sometimes,” says one person familiar with the process.
As its shows ramped up during the pandemic, Marvel stepped outside its usual staffing approach and brought in outside execs after years of internally promoting creatives who had been sufficiently trained in the Marvel method.
>This change was felt most severely on Secret Invasion, the Samuel L. Jackson-led thriller that stands as Marvel’s worst-reviewed series. Kyle Bradstreet, a writer and executive producer on USA Network Emmy winner Mr. Robot, had been working on the scripts for Secret Invasion for about a year when he was fired after Marvel decided on a different direction. Enter new writer Brian Tucker, who penned the crime thriller Broken City. Thomas Bezucha, who helmed the thriller Let Him Go, and Ali Selim, who worked on Hulu’s 9/11 drama TheLooming Tower, were on board as directors and to help crack the story.
>have a writer who worked on Mr fricking Robot and won awards for it
>chuck him and his work out and hire a literally-who instead
>end up with the worst show you've done
Holy shit
Frick off mr robot was awful
So they did this before. hire someone, pay them, decide you don't like it, fire them. I guess that's just how they work now. I wonder if they get these people who come in with Great ideas, then once the guy is in there working, they tell him "Good but we need it to be more Marvel". Guy refuses to bend the knee because it'll be shit. They fire him and get someone who will do what they want.
That's the Lucasfilm way
Have a writer who did mr.robot. didn't let him do moon knight.
Qrd on Mr. Robot
Really good show about a hacker who's also autistic, a junkie, extremely fricked up by childhood trauma, and is constantly hallucinating; while also using his hackerman skills to fight against an evil company that controls everything, and a literal troony who wants to reboot the whole ass universe.
Time to step in
He had such good hair.
Skinhead Shooter just feels wrong
Holy shit, at least they're finally realising their model isn't working and doing something about it.
It's obviously never going to match up to what Netflix did but thank god they're aware of that
I SAY SHOOTER YOU SAY SORRY
SHOOTER
For both of them.
How does it get that far? They would have known from the pitch/scripts that he would have suited up later. Needing to review footage after spending money on actors, sets, etc to find out it's not what you want is shocking. Are they greenlighting shit without reviewing anything until it's all shot?
I guess that's how these budgets balloon to comical proportions, all these frick ups
Because it's been a Producers shop for a while now. And they're not gonna recognize a problem till it's too late.
>Needing to review footage after spending money on actors, sets, etc to find out it's not what you want is shocking.
This happens very often. It's the whole reason average network shows produce a pilot first and only after screening it to target audiences do they request additional episodes.
Just to stay on a recent example, The Boys' spinoff Gen V that is airing now was redeveloped twice, including major cast and story changes.
Born Again was already greenlit with a full season written before they axed it. They had to approve the scripts before they shot anything, and saw dailies before the hollywood strikes, so revamping it now makes no sense at all.
You can have a good script and still end up with a subpar show.
This just reminds me of that quote from the She-Hulk showrunner where she said that halfway through no one knew how to write a court-room drama so they just gave up on that angle of the show
They said it was scrapped for not being like the Netflix show enough, and that Daredevil in costume only showed up on episode 4. Maybe it's not so bad that they scrapped it.
>and that Daredevil in costume only showed up on episode 4
for the autistic pedants like me, the thing was that he wouldn't show up in costume in episodes 1 to 3, and would start appearing in costume from episode 4 forward; not that episode 4 was the only episode in which he'd be in costume.
A lot of distributors used the strikes as cover to terminate contracts and cut ties. I don't buy "we watched it and mmm mmm not up to our standards!"
Probably more like Disney saw Filmmaker Magazine's 25 New Faces of Film and went "hey, wanna do this shit for bank and just follow our notes?" Because it worked for Captain Marvel.
Both could be true in this case, Disney used the strikes as an excuse to cut ties with certain writers and executives, at the same time Marvel Studios has said since early this year even before the strikes that they were going to scale back their television productions because of the recent reception and decline of the franchise.
Yeah I sort of think we're not getting whatever that order was of 24 or 26 episodes. Maybe they'll keep a 12 episode format and then a "season finale" movie. Or maybe they do The Continental route and make 3-4 90 minute episodes. That format surprised me but it was oddly satisfying.
Most probable is we'll get a split where both seasons are composed of 9 episodes from the original single 18 episode season.
Why waste all that money paying the pre-production staff as well as shooting footage and have your stock price crash? I really doubt it's as bad as they say it is when they thought Quantumania was an acceptable product to release.
Quantumania was in that weird production time of Black Panther 2, Moon Knight, Werewolf by Night, Hawkeye and She-Hulk that caused the CG teams to unionize from all the micromanaging.
I'm glad they unionized but Disney will just ship out more VFX to indians who don't mind 20 hour work days.
I swear to god 90% of the money these homosexual companies lose is because execs need “muh vision” and scrap everything that was done before
The worst is when they have full series they just hide in the vault forever and take a 100% loss in because they don’t want to promote them and give residuals
>They didn't like the 18 episodes already filmed
>It didn't maintain the essence of the character.
>The suit did not appear until the 4th episode.
I think they only filmed 8 or so it says fewer than half
KWAB
Imagine hiring the writer of Mr. Robot for Secret Invasion and firing him after a year.
>look mom I said it again
Frick of mr robot was awful
Good.
Good. Can it all.
They went back and reviewed it and realized there wasnt enough gay sex between the devout catholic and he didnt have enough pride flags all over telling everyone how much god loves homos.
that and there wasn't enough black and brown people saving the day and telling Matt how bad of a person he is for not being black or brown
>"It should be Writer driven, we've figured out"
Oh, like every other show on TV? Are they moronic? Genuinely curious. That's how all other TV shows work.
One of the things the WGA wanted to go to strike over was their contract not defining the showrunner as a writer, meaning a studio at anytime could pick some random ass exec as the "showrunner" and change things without the input of the creator or the writer's room.
That old comment from whatsherface about "Marvel directs the movies, not the directors" is why they mostly hire nobodies that they can bully around
After reading everything carefully, I am split entirely on course-correction. On one hand, knowing how Marvel handles writing for TV series is baffling, why did they ever think that'd work especially when they actually kind of had a blueprint for certain success (like, just take what Loeb and Quesada did with Marvel TV and iron out all of their problems, that's all), so WGA strike and changes the industry will take regarding writing for TV shows is likely to result in a better product in the end. On the other hand, I am not entirely sure what's the problem with Daredevil specifically is and what the leak actually means by saying
>Cox didn’t even show up in costume until the fourth episode
Just think about it, what does it mean. May I remind you that Cox not only does stunts and fights (with prime example being 11 minute one-take fight in S3) outside of his costume, but if I told you that Cox didn't even show up in a costume until thirteenth episode of season 1, I'd be fricking correct. Does it mean THE costume, or just any costume at all?
Overall, I think they scrambled the show together a bit haphazardly and it's good that they clearly try to put thought into it and WANT to make it work. But on the other hand, I don't want to lose a potentially smarter show because Feige thought I am too stupid to watch procedural drama with Charlie Cox, when guy has a very sexy voice.
I'm pretty sure everyone would say the black costume counts as "in costume".
That's why I am saying there's a room for doubt, there's no clarification whether it implied yellow and orange costume or any costume at all, and even if he doesn't, what does it matter, Charlie Cox can do, did and probably will do action scenes outside of his costume. Maybe the 4 episodes absence of costume is merely a build up for a new costume even. There's nothing informative to glean from that sentence to say definitively.
to be fair i'd watch a show of a lawyer with cheat mode like matt's activated.
No costume at all, first three episodes were reportedly just Matt moping about failing to save Foggy and maybe Karen from a hit ordered by the Kingpin off-screen one year prior.
I know Marvel Studios funded the later seasons of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., but they should know how to handle a TV production by now.
Shan't be watching unless the bring back the Netflix writers.