Dude literally made it into the industry based on raw talent and stayed in despite not improving his art for nearly a decade. Then he co created Image comics. I'm thinking based.
Liefeld was undeniably talented, despite his obvious shortcomings. His shit wasn't especially GOOD, but he was knocking out comics at an obscenely fast rate that no one else could keep up with. One man going for Quantity over Quality and succeeding immensely because of it, and somehow not killing himself in the process.
Did he? He was infamous for being a lazy hack and missing deadlines and not finishing shit, his studio went out of business and he was fired from Image. He's done nothing of note since the late 90s. I feel like Hustle is the last thing I could attribute to him.
Imagine just bein an innocent cool kid and people just love whatever you do: your drawings, your ideas... and you get rich from it. He basically kept his purity by never have to face actual adulthood.
Thats totally wrong. When Rob was a teenager his father had a stroke and couldnt work anymore, so Rob had to work twice as hard to try and make it in the comics industry. He was also berated by an editor so much, it made him cry, and for years people in the industry would tease him about it. Also, when he was at his creative peak, he was getting shit on by tons of people in the industry, even guys who he had worshiped as a kid.
I admit I used to mock his art. But the CK guys helped me to appreciate his art for what it is: fun stylistic depictions of adolescent power fantasies. And on the technical merits his art has gotten better, so many just cherry-pick the worst examples.
And now he's the biggest ambassador for crushing the bullshit that led to Piskor's death. A real stand-up guy. He'll go further cancelling cancel culture than that fat frick EVS ever will.
Rob has enough frick you money he can't be taken down so it's cool someone like him has spoken out and defended Ed. It's cool is seems like it has inspired others to come forward and say kind things. I never liked his work but this has mace me become a dan of Rob. Very based.
Jesus Christ phone posting before i had a full cup of coffee. Typing like i had a stroke mid-sentence *made me a fan of Rob
I changed my opinion on Rob when i saw that even in recent years he was actively engaging in fan communities, thankfully they seemed to be made out of more mature people and he was very well received. He has improved on his art, but at the same time, who cares, this is cartooning, a little bit of roughness around the edges is preferable to an extremely cold and clinical modern Jim Lee style anyways.
it setill seems unnecessarily mean, BWS must've been in his 40s and Rob could've been his son. Probably butthurt about Marvel rejecting his ideas and most likely due to Storyteller's cancellation due to poor sales.
Barry Windsor-Smith won three Eisners for a single work in 2022
in 2022, Rob Liefeld was still stiffing donators who really imagined that they'd get something out of a Rob Liefeld Kickstarter, despite all the printed comic books allegedly being in Rob's garage waiting to be mailed
Barry Windsor-Smith won three Eisners for a single work in 2022
in 2022, Rob Liefeld was still stiffing donators who really imagined that they'd get something out of a Rob Liefeld Kickstarter, despite all the printed comic books allegedly being in Rob's garage waiting to be mailed
>that would ruin the industry
that's marvel's fault, not liefeld.
they could have recognized that young hack had them both beat and at least respect his work ethic. instead they published a salty diss track like 90% of TCW's content in the early 90s.
How the frick Gary Groth's reputation did not crash when he published the kirby interview is a mystery to me. >manipulate an old man with memory problems near his deathbed into saying egregious shit
groth deserves to have his jaw dislocated for that one
Image did the same gimmicks that killed the industry just with shittier characters. I'm sorry you hate Groth for actually caring about the industry and art form
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I'm sorry you hate Groth for actually caring about the industry and art form
caring about like his indie cred and pseudointellectual bs.
>He is a young boy almost, I would expect
I wonder if BWS would think any different if he knew Liefeld's dad got cancer when he was 16 or 17 that left him unable to provide for him family . Rob was grinding jobs on top of studying art. he was suddenly thrust into a position where he could make good money to provide for his family Is that a young boy?
Hate his art if you want, this whole statement comes off as him being a dick.
>He is a young boy almost, I would expect
I wonder if BWS would think any different if he knew Liefeld's dad got cancer when he was 16 or 17 that left him unable to provide for him family . Rob was grinding jobs on top of studying art. he was suddenly thrust into a position where he could make good money to provide for his family Is that a young boy?
Hate his art if you want, this whole statement comes off as him being a dick.
Shooter was also an even younger teen when he started working in comics due to sick parent/family money problems
He was 10. Father in a coma for 9 months. Mother sank into depression. Doctors telling the family he'd be a "vegetable" and had no way of surviving.
Liefeld would go there with his mom every day, they'd leave him outside the hospital room , he'd read comics.
Against all odds, his dad recovered, losing an eye. His father would unfortunately have recurring cancer for the rest of his life, starting when Rob was 15. Liefeld has issues of comics he drew when he was in his dad's hospital room. His motivation for making it in comics was to get his family out of the financial hole they were in.
That's what comics means to Liefeld. An escape. an escape from a terrible situation for a 10 year old boy, and an escape from financial destitution.
Maybe that's not deep enough for BWS,but it's a meaning.
Does that meaning come out in his work though, I think is BWS point. Rob can have a super compelling life and be an interesting and nice person but it doesn't automatically make his comics any better or infuse them with meaning. I mean to be fair he's far from the only artist who took a bunch of jobs just to pay the bills.
Does it need to? unironically, it's a midwit thing to try and scope a deeper meaning to things.
BWS might have deep, important thoughts about things but I don't think they showed up in his most prominent solo, non franchise works, Storyteller and Monster.
Of course not, Liefed goal was to make money, he knew what was selling and made all the shit 90s fans wanted, but it was genuine against, say, Benis or Slott who think their work has meaning but isn´t what the fans want either
That's not a midwit thing. Expressing meaning through you art is a pretty basic concept for anyone interested in, well media in general. Why should I care if you are a great cool tragic guy if all your comics suck and read like a particularly immature 13 year old made them? I'm not his fricking friend, the work is what matters. I don't think Liefeld ever made an real effort to make great art but that doesn't invalidate BWS complaints, and personally I don't even think they are good as pure entertainment for kids. Certainly doesn't hold up compared to even his other Image founders stuff.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Again, not saying you have to think the end product is great. I just think it's hypocritical that for BWS's criticism, his actual work isn't really all that great either in terms of writing.
Maybe I'm too young but I will never get the hype for BWS. He's fine enough, but it just feels like people were really impressed by delicate, worked over linework back then. But he still did wonky fricking faces and all his characters have that aloof, smug look to them no matter what. People shit on stve Dillon for being hack who kept doing the same faces the last decade of his career, when BWS' characters all have this same, long face.
P.Craig Russel does something similar to his thing but without the same stock faces BWS does. Other artists like Jeff Jones. And John Buscema's Conan was more appropriate for the character. I would never say he's untalented, but he always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder about comics-and it feels like his art and writing never really progressed to the standard he'd likely hold for himself. Certainly not his writing.
Dude literally made it into the industry based on raw talent and stayed in despite not improving his art for nearly a decade. Then he co created Image comics. I'm thinking based.
>raw talent
let's not get carried away
Liefeld was undeniably talented, despite his obvious shortcomings. His shit wasn't especially GOOD, but he was knocking out comics at an obscenely fast rate that no one else could keep up with. One man going for Quantity over Quality and succeeding immensely because of it, and somehow not killing himself in the process.
That's just it, Rob had the hustle, that's something to at least admire.
Did he? He was infamous for being a lazy hack and missing deadlines and not finishing shit, his studio went out of business and he was fired from Image. He's done nothing of note since the late 90s. I feel like Hustle is the last thing I could attribute to him.
>raw talent
loooool, he made the comic book equivalent of fast food burgers. one case of being at the right time
By being at the right time, with the right people with the right product.
Imagine just bein an innocent cool kid and people just love whatever you do: your drawings, your ideas... and you get rich from it. He basically kept his purity by never have to face actual adulthood.
Thats totally wrong. When Rob was a teenager his father had a stroke and couldnt work anymore, so Rob had to work twice as hard to try and make it in the comics industry. He was also berated by an editor so much, it made him cry, and for years people in the industry would tease him about it. Also, when he was at his creative peak, he was getting shit on by tons of people in the industry, even guys who he had worshiped as a kid.
why'd he run down that kid
I admit I used to mock his art. But the CK guys helped me to appreciate his art for what it is: fun stylistic depictions of adolescent power fantasies. And on the technical merits his art has gotten better, so many just cherry-pick the worst examples.
And now he's the biggest ambassador for crushing the bullshit that led to Piskor's death. A real stand-up guy. He'll go further cancelling cancel culture than that fat frick EVS ever will.
Cancel pigs will come after him hard. We need to protect him.
Rob has enough frick you money he can't be taken down so it's cool someone like him has spoken out and defended Ed. It's cool is seems like it has inspired others to come forward and say kind things. I never liked his work but this has mace me become a dan of Rob. Very based.
Jesus Christ phone posting before i had a full cup of coffee. Typing like i had a stroke mid-sentence *made me a fan of Rob
I changed my opinion on Rob when i saw that even in recent years he was actively engaging in fan communities, thankfully they seemed to be made out of more mature people and he was very well received. He has improved on his art, but at the same time, who cares, this is cartooning, a little bit of roughness around the edges is preferable to an extremely cold and clinical modern Jim Lee style anyways.
yeah i don't think he ever needs to worry about prosecution, that kid is long dead
He's probably the only comics pro that still loves comics.
Rob seems like an okay dude even though I was never a big fan of his comics
he literally the west's equivalent of a manga author
Did he get his shit back, yet, or do israelites still own his ass?
Damn this seems mean af.
It's not too far off. Check every time Liefeld himself does Youngblood. It's always the same story - like, the near EXACT same story.
it setill seems unnecessarily mean, BWS must've been in his 40s and Rob could've been his son. Probably butthurt about Marvel rejecting his ideas and most likely due to Storyteller's cancellation due to poor sales.
It's provocative, but not even slightly mean. Nut up, Rob.
Barry Windsor-Smith won three Eisners for a single work in 2022
in 2022, Rob Liefeld was still stiffing donators who really imagined that they'd get something out of a Rob Liefeld Kickstarter, despite all the printed comic books allegedly being in Rob's garage waiting to be mailed
dude's just lazy, and everybody sees it but you
>Barry Windsor-Smith won three Eisners for a single work in 2022
That took him nearly 3 decades to complete.
and the book actually sucks
>reddit spacing
Erica Henderson won an Eisner moron, they mean shit
Waste of dubs tbh
Barry could stand to draw women better.
I'm pretty sure BWS is gay, so he doesn't understand what makes women attractive.
it is, it's pure salt. fantagraphics was at it's lowest point ever and WS saw himself be completely outcompeted by a dumb kid
They were right though. They recognized it as hack work with bad business that would ruin the industry. And it did.
>that would ruin the industry
that's marvel's fault, not liefeld.
they could have recognized that young hack had them both beat and at least respect his work ethic. instead they published a salty diss track like 90% of TCW's content in the early 90s.
How the frick Gary Groth's reputation did not crash when he published the kirby interview is a mystery to me.
>manipulate an old man with memory problems near his deathbed into saying egregious shit
groth deserves to have his jaw dislocated for that one
Image did the same gimmicks that killed the industry just with shittier characters. I'm sorry you hate Groth for actually caring about the industry and art form
>I'm sorry you hate Groth for actually caring about the industry and art form
caring about like his indie cred and pseudointellectual bs.
Gary Groth contributing so much to this discussion.
Groth sometimes does say those type of lines in his interviews/conversations. He does expand on Lee and Liefeld later in the interview
>Gary Groth and BWS smelling their own farts
Mid-wit commentary disguised as intellectualism.
go back to publishing porn, groth
lmao based. Frick Liefeld and anyone trying to rehabilitate his shitty art.
>He is a young boy almost, I would expect
I wonder if BWS would think any different if he knew Liefeld's dad got cancer when he was 16 or 17 that left him unable to provide for him family . Rob was grinding jobs on top of studying art. he was suddenly thrust into a position where he could make good money to provide for his family Is that a young boy?
Hate his art if you want, this whole statement comes off as him being a dick.
He would just rephrase this
Comics were better before all the rainy Brits came in
holy frick windsor shut your trap
>WAAAAHHH IM A SAD SMOL BEAN WHO CAN DRAW :~~*~~*
Frick you. You'd be shitting on anyone else regardless of that sob story.
Shooter was also an even younger teen when he started working in comics due to sick parent/family money problems
He was 10. Father in a coma for 9 months. Mother sank into depression. Doctors telling the family he'd be a "vegetable" and had no way of surviving.
Liefeld would go there with his mom every day, they'd leave him outside the hospital room , he'd read comics.
Against all odds, his dad recovered, losing an eye. His father would unfortunately have recurring cancer for the rest of his life, starting when Rob was 15. Liefeld has issues of comics he drew when he was in his dad's hospital room. His motivation for making it in comics was to get his family out of the financial hole they were in.
That's what comics means to Liefeld. An escape. an escape from a terrible situation for a 10 year old boy, and an escape from financial destitution.
Maybe that's not deep enough for BWS,but it's a meaning.
Does that meaning come out in his work though, I think is BWS point. Rob can have a super compelling life and be an interesting and nice person but it doesn't automatically make his comics any better or infuse them with meaning. I mean to be fair he's far from the only artist who took a bunch of jobs just to pay the bills.
Does it need to? unironically, it's a midwit thing to try and scope a deeper meaning to things.
BWS might have deep, important thoughts about things but I don't think they showed up in his most prominent solo, non franchise works, Storyteller and Monster.
Of course not, Liefed goal was to make money, he knew what was selling and made all the shit 90s fans wanted, but it was genuine against, say, Benis or Slott who think their work has meaning but isn´t what the fans want either
That's not a midwit thing. Expressing meaning through you art is a pretty basic concept for anyone interested in, well media in general. Why should I care if you are a great cool tragic guy if all your comics suck and read like a particularly immature 13 year old made them? I'm not his fricking friend, the work is what matters. I don't think Liefeld ever made an real effort to make great art but that doesn't invalidate BWS complaints, and personally I don't even think they are good as pure entertainment for kids. Certainly doesn't hold up compared to even his other Image founders stuff.
Again, not saying you have to think the end product is great. I just think it's hypocritical that for BWS's criticism, his actual work isn't really all that great either in terms of writing.
Maybe I'm too young but I will never get the hype for BWS. He's fine enough, but it just feels like people were really impressed by delicate, worked over linework back then. But he still did wonky fricking faces and all his characters have that aloof, smug look to them no matter what. People shit on stve Dillon for being hack who kept doing the same faces the last decade of his career, when BWS' characters all have this same, long face.
P.Craig Russel does something similar to his thing but without the same stock faces BWS does. Other artists like Jeff Jones. And John Buscema's Conan was more appropriate for the character. I would never say he's untalented, but he always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder about comics-and it feels like his art and writing never really progressed to the standard he'd likely hold for himself. Certainly not his writing.
There's nothing based about him. Todd was a little based at first. Liefeld was just a lucky hack.
by being literally too moronic to give up
Can we at least be honest and admit that the vast majority of Liefeld's output, particularly early Image, was shameless plagiarism?