How can the industry improve comic sales?
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How can the industry improve comic sales?
How can the industry improve comic sales?
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Diversify genres.
This. We need more diversity. Too many White straight characters.
Thats not what they meant, dumbfrick.
Sounds like you need to be ethnically enriched.
Already done. Since forever, actually. Nobody wants to read them though.
This, there are 100 books a month that aren’t cape shit. These homosexuals who say this shit just don’t buy them.
I buy Usagi Yojimbo, only thing I do at this point, but I do wish it was still in black and white
It's the types of things that are made that make the difference. When a non cape book actually does action, or has a fun plot or is the least bit interesting it does incredibly well. Like
said, they get instantly famous and make media everywhere else. The problem is that 90% of the indy stuff out there is unreadable bullshit by some arthouse frick that wants to write unintelligible nonsense and call it his artistic vision.
Also I'm sure the work Indy being attached to it attracts those kinds of buttholes in the first place. Typically anything "Indy" media is the exact same shit. Indy movies are black and white scenes of fricking pure indecipherable crap. Indy music is the same shit, screeching noise no one would ever confuse for music at all if they were not trying too hard to look informed and different to everyone else.
You have no idea what the frick you're taking about dude
What a worthless fricking post.
Yes I agree your post was fricking worthless
Spend a few minutes browsing Silver Sprocket's website. They were an indie music label that branched into indie comics a few years ago. You'll witness some of the most abhorrent, ugly, self-fellating emotional diarrhea you've ever seen. With a nice coat of liberal political paint. This is the kind of stuff getting published by "the little guy." The most indie of indie comics. Anytime someone tells me to read indie comics, or that indies will "save" us, this is the shit that I see in my mind's eye. People's weird fetishes, political interests, and spergy diary entries in visual format. All we have is this, capes, and the garbage that's just like capeshit except not published by the big publishers. Like 2% of all comics that get made in any given year are worth even an ounce of attention. For some reason all the fricking artists in our entire country are either mentally ill, aping the cape standard, or betting entirely on manga.
Yep. I know one will think that it'll never work because the big 2 had already tried that. But do it again, but with better writing and art.
Only 2 companies publish superheroes.
If anything, the problem is that there's too much "sci-fi/fantasy/horror... WITH A TWIST" and "biographic indie hipster shit". There are also AT LEAST as many licensed comics as superheroes, but you homosexuals don't complain about that.
Comic Cake
Cinemaphile - Comics & Cartoons ?
https://desuarchive.org/co/search/image/cu0Mczf1Bp2NnMO_s2nOjQ/
Needs more diversity.
When will she be in the Spiderman game?
SpiderSun is such a cool name, too bad is wasted in this thing
Still mad about this shit. The electrostatic control she has should allow her to circumvent any paralysis that isn't psychosomatic.
I'm actually all for representation, but at least have it make sense. They legitimately could have done wheelchair spider-woman if they'd gone with the right powerset or condition.
how is she moving her legs in the first one? that's not just gravity
She's white? Disgusting. She also is probably christian, and neurotypical.
Why can't she be a ethnically ambiguous buddist autist?
Don't worry, white women are considered oppressed and is part of the diversity lineup.
she's ginger, she'll become black soon enough
Missed opportunity by not giving her a web wheelchair
They could have made a parody were web is magic
>NEW SPIDERMAN
It's a spiderverse comic don't these characters get like 4 pages and that's all folks?
she's clearly trans-disabled. she's not actually disabled, she just identifies as a disabled person.
Like Daredevil?
>Paraplegic spiderman.
>Legs flail about uncontrollably while swinging.
>While crawling on walls and ceilings they just dangle.
I hate Spider-Verse and I hate how in the movies they literally put comicbooks in your face.
>Ah add the cap, so everyone could understand there is a Black person in that SM outfit
these people are so fricking delusional holy frick
I still think it’s pretty funny how they made her so much prettier in the actual comic.
We don't. It literally deserves to die.
Best and most correct post. The only cure for cancer is death.
Make comics fun, cheap, and accessible, like they were when people actually bought them.
This. You need to go in with a fricking tour guide if you're a complete newbie and "want to read some Catwoman comics".
Make I Hate Fairyland a Show and don't kill Gert a second time.
Half the problem is floppies. In an era of $5 issues, decompressed storytelling making everything feel like they're written for trades, and constant cycles of cancelation and relaunches, they're a horrible format for the average reader to keep up with. Every comic book could be someone's first, but if you pick up an issue of Spider-Man or something these days it never feels like you're getting a full story, or even a full chapter of something.
Not to mention most readers still don't have easy, consistent access to these things. Comic book shops are pretty much the only places that carry most books, and those are rare outside of major cities these days. Even when you can find comics in something like a super market, they're usually grab bags of backstock, so you're getting some random old book from the middle of a story arc. Even bookstores like Barnes & Noble and Books A Million, which used to have a shelf or two in their magazine sections for floppies, just don't bother anymore (and were usually months behind when they did).
Why not just order them online from DCBS?
>writers refuse to write for the format
>this means the format is to blame
Nope.
Yep, the format is simply a non-starter these days. Here's the solution I see for the industry:
1. Quality.
2. Ditching floppies in favor of (cheap) trades, digests, and graphic novels, and specifically getting these books on Walmart shelves.
3. Improved digitial experience. Marvel Unlimited is a good start but DC needs to catch up.
Manga hava a logical structure, there is Vol1 with chapters 1-5 and Vol2 chapters 6-11,etc.
American comics are a mesh and you barely know if a issue of Marvel-DC have a chapter 2 or is another crossover with the chapter 5 of other character
>6 results
>all different filenames
>last few were July and November...
Calm down.
It can’t
>this fricking thread again
cry harder chud
I thought Guy was into Ice, what's he doing with Fire? Also isn't it a little stereotypical making the Brazilian a Transvestite?
This legitimately looks like someone was trying to do one of those basedjak edits.
reminds me of picrel
If you look really close you'll realize they all have the same basic face. Like the artist can only draw three facial structures and they are all here.
This isn't as much of a problem as the faces being ugly.
Fix this shit
>how
i don't know
lol WHY?
Think he’s trying to bank on the Machete Order, except that actually makes sense while his shit doesn’t.
This looks like a joke because 3 explains stands.
Between this guy and Cosmonaut Variety Hour I've seen some really shitty opinions on JoJo.
why are western readers so moronic
Stop generalizing.
The japanese think that part 8 was excellent and they really like part 5 compared to 6 and 7
Remember hamon beat
>Remember hamon beat
No. Should I?
Chronological order is the only thing that makes sense, though I guess you could read Steel Ball Run on separately because even though they share common/similar characters it's not necessary for the narrative.
Even then, there are some things in Steel Ball Run that only make sense if you've read the previous parts, like Dio pulling the World out of his ass near the end.
This
After being introduced to the series by watching the anime
You can just start where you left off by reading the manga
look up Fate
>Damn I really liked Fate Stay Night UBW how can I see more?
Here's the FSN VN it includes that route and two others.
>Damn I really liked Fate Zero how can I read more?
Read it's novel
>Damn I really liked Fate Stay Night's Heaven's Feel how can I read more?
Here's the FSN VN it includes that route and two others
>Damn I really liked Fate/Apo how can I see more
Check out the novel
Are you maybe moronic?
wheres the starting point you idiot
the original Fate Stay Night Visual Novel
if you want to watch the anime maybe its a little more tricky but nowhere as tricky as getting into capes
The Original Fate Stay Night Deen anime isn't a great adaptation and is pretty dated as far as anime goes but lots of people started with that and were just fine. Some will suggest you skip is and start with Ufotable Fate
You can just skip UBW Deen
Ufotable Fate has UBW, Zero, and Heaven's Feel
They animated Zero first but its a prequel so its better to start with UBW if you didn't as much watch Deen Fate but either way you should watch Heaven's Feel last
You have the Spin-Offs and it really doesn't matter what order you watch Apocrypha, Extra, Lord El-Melloi II’s Case Files, or even Today’s Menu for The Emiya Family since they're not really related at all
The Grand Order anime you just follow release order
Ufo’s UBW presents itself as a sequel to Fate Zero, so it’s best to start with that.
>Read it's novel
Don't unless you know Japanese. Translation's infamous
>Check out the novel
Translators never finished it
Frick you bb
F/SN has been fully translated for 15 fricking years.
>F/SN
Yes
>zero
Bad "translation"
>Apocrypha
Never finished
>F/SN
This VN is the only thing you're required to read to "get into Fate", every single other title, regardless of medium, is optional.
>zero
So watch the anime.
>Apocrypha
Same as above.
Follow the reply chain and see what parts were green texted of the post with bb
fate didn't start off as a manga
Just start with Fate Stay Night. You know, the actual visual novel.
Frick no, just watch the show like a normal person.
>Normal person
>Fate
Why are you bringing up a visual novel when we're talking about manga?
It says a lot that you see the exact same non-examples brought up again and again every time to try and counter this point.
pick your poison
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/wiki/watch_order
>anime/wiki/watch_order
why is there a watch order when you can just start at episode 1
Because the anime there are mostly adaptations, so the guide exist for stuff like works that had an anime serie in the 1997, 2016 and 2017 and a series of three film, so that you know which series cover the same stuff, which cover different things and which are original.
>r/anime
It doesn't matter how many non-examples you bring up if they are not examples of what's being discussed.
>Does not know the difference between Anime and manga
Because most anime are made in seasons, and they usually are not named sequentially. So for example Demon Slayers Manga start at chapter 1 and ends at chapter 206, no possible mistakes, but the anime adaptation is
>Demon Slayer Season 1
>Demon Slayer Mugen Train Arc Movie
>Demon Slayer Entertainment District Arc Season
Wow what an impenetrable mystery if only there were some way to tell what order these should be watched in!
>read the VN
>read the Zero prequel and the HA sequel
>now do whatever you want, you aren't going to be clueless on Prisma because you haven't watched Apocrypha yet, everything is stand alone
That was easy
Literally just read creator fricking owned
You don't need to be into capeshit to be into comics
the problem is that they aren't getting the same level of marketing as capeshit
Almost no one knows about those. With manga, any new series is put on the front cover of the magazine and at the top of the table of contents. New manga is easier to find than new non capeshit books.
Nobody reads comics anyway so these companies don’t have the dough to market this shit properly.
>don’t have the dough to market this shit properly.
>hey guys you like our hit marvel movie/tvshow/cartoon?
>go check out read comics dot com or our twitter page to see the latest comics
wow that's so hard
They already do that, dude. The problem is nobody wants to read the fricking things.
>hey guys you like our hit marvel movie/tvshow/cartoon?
The thing is, movies do actually cause a bump in sales. A bunch of volume 1 TPBs and recommended "best of" comics sell. The problem is there is no where to go after. You buy volume 1 of something, maybe a few more volumes. Writers/artists change and the book is back to a new number 1. Or you read a best of recommended list and it consists of the same few evergreen books e.g. for Batman it will be Year One/TDKR.
The problem is there is no comics pipeline, it is a dead end.
Also the big problem you have with lots of big characters where you watch the Spiderman Movie, you buy the current Spiderman Tpb and other than having Spiderman in it it's completely different. Spiderman is a different person, it has different supporting characters, different enemies etc.
You don't have this problem with stuff like Invincible. People that watched the serie and bought the tbp found exactly what they expected.
> it's completely different
The comics paradox. People complain when things are same but also complain when things are too different. We have the multiplication effect where you can't have a city need saving you need a multiverse or a fricking oververse, everything constantly gets bigger but that in turn leads to burn out. Every new writer comes in with the gimmick of wanting to smash something to pieces while also wanting to harken back to something they liked when they were younger. And at the core they can't fundementally write good characters and related that back to a good plot. The best Spider-Man comics I've read lately were stuff like Spider-Man Blue (Peter reminisicing about his romance with Gwen) or Life Story (with what if Peter aged in real time).
>Buy creator owned
>Nobody knows any creators outside of Todd McFarlane
Like it or not, buying "creator owned" doesn't mean shit unless the creator is known. And in Comics, that means doing good capeshit.
Kirkman?
BKV?
You could try reading a comic book
just read the most popular ones
yes i will read manga, thanks
goyslop
ironic
name one actual good manga, it's all overrated goyslop
you don't know what the word means
i don't know your tastes but that's the good thing.
there's stories for everyone in manga, not stories made for everyone
name the ones you like then
>you don't know what the word means
I do
Just read creator owned
>How can the industry improve comic sales?
Step 1: License manga
Step 2: Translate, mirror, and colorize it
Step 3: Break it up into floppies with western variant covers
Step 4: Call it comics
Remove Step 3. Nobody wants floppies.
This is the single worst take I've seen in this thread. Manga is already selling. Why make it cost more while simultaneously making it worse?
>Why make it cost more while simultaneously making it worse?
To prove the comics model is godawful so maybe frickers wake up.
They were already doing that a long time ago, then the Japanese found out that they can totally localize their own series without a Dark Horse or Tokyopop middleman fricking things up.
By people buying books other than big two capeshit.
Such as?
Give more attention to comics that AREN'T capeshit. No sane homie is gonna read up on five hundred issues of Batman to understand the complexities and nuance of Batman Vs. Condiment Man. Also, do what anime does and adapt comics into movies/animated TV shows. I would've never checked out the Scott Pilgrim comics if it wasn't for the movie and now the Netflix show.
>do what anime does and adapt comics into movies/animated TV shows
We’ve had those already, dude. Have you been living under a rock?
They gotta ramp it up.
No. Superhero movies are over, dude. The public doesn’t want them anymore unless it’s Batman and Spider-Man.
I'm not talking about superhero movies, anon. They're done for. I'm talking about animating works that AREN'T superhero comics. Chew, Saga, Blankets, Black Hole, etc, etc. There's a whole world outside of superhero comics and most normies don't even know that. I didn't know that Hilda was based off a comic and now I have a collection of Hilda because of the Netflix adapatation.
Most people won’t care about the comics, dude. They’ll just watch the shows and that’s it.
>Blankets
Nobody wants to see that insufferable shit.
Every comic store and editorial on my country started to sell manga just like 6 years ago.
horror and thriller comics that aren't bizarro arthouse shit. they would sell extremely well at least comparatively.
More genre stories that aren't bizarro arthouse shit in general. The indie scene is a fricking mess.
Cringe thread?
> trans woman in gotham of all places
> somehow still alive and not Batman's Murder Case of The Week #7782945798
She lives with Batwoman, that's like living above a donut shop next to a police station but safer.
It's like having your donut shop inside police HQ.
Is it using its dilatior for self defence?
Kinky
>this singular panel craters any credibility America Chavez had as a character
>Kate Bishop meanwhile gets away scot-free even though she's the one actually saying it
being a Chavez Chad is to know only suffering
shes the worst character since the new ms marvel
Imagine getting the dialogue and having to draw that
I said before that this is sonichu tier dialogue, you could just swap the dialogue from one of his comics and no one would know the difference
I remember when Cinemaphile got a letter published in this comic. Gabbie Rivera man. That comic was so fricking fun to shitpost about.
Why the frick is this panel so wordy you could easily get the point across more effectively in half the space and what the frick is a brides best Archer that's not a thing
>Reign
last name Wuz'kangs'ns
>das rite miss mass murderer who dissolves people alive in giant plants to make snuff porn, we's queers gats ta stick to'gayther
Promote diversity and acceptance on Manga and Warhammer community. Force ESG policies on Toei and Game Workshop. Harass fans and creators who complaint.
Comics still sell in Europe.
Unironically an American problem. For both American comicbooks themselves, but also American stores and the distribution and backend of the comicbooks industry.
Not really though, except for well known characters created 50 years (or more) ago.
What about multiple animated series for kids and teenagers set in the same Comics base cartoon universe on public TV channels you don't need to pay a subscription to of good quality in order to get new customers ?
We saw your thread mr mehico. You got replies go discuss it there.
Improve product, serve customers, fire everyone who refuse to do those things.
If the mindset and mission statement within these companies could be changed to create value for customers, then many of the solutions that get pitched in these threads will be adopted organically. Compensation needs to be handled the same way as actual publishing. Creators need to be held responsible for their sales, and editors need to be held responsible for the creators they hire.
If meritocracy cannot be restored, then all of the other suggestions regarding distribution, pricing, and form factor will not matter. Because if companies do not have the rationality and objectivity to assess their performance correctly, then good policies will not be made permanent, bad policies will find their way back in, and negative incentives will undo any gains.
>If meritocracy cannot be restored, then all of the other suggestions regarding distribution, pricing, and form factor will not matter.
This man speaks the truth.
I never read comics or manga, but my brother stopped reading comic books almost a decade ago because they went woke. For the gaslighters who pretend to not know what “woke” is, literal characters called “snowflake” and “safe space.” He thought it was an April Fool’s Joke or something until he learned it wasn’t, so he just stopped reading comic books altogether.
That comic never even came out. While I don’t agree on the overall point of wokeness killing comics you and your brother sound autistic.
It’s the principle of the matter.
One comic book offer in a huge industry makes heroes called Snowflake and safe space which was only meant to be a limited series and was so unimportant it got canceled because of pandemic means you have to quit the entire industry because of principles? What's your principle any being Progressive or not straight white man a perfect and everyone should be like them has to be considered evil ?
That’s only one example he gave of why he quit reading them. The point is he didn’t like the direction the industry was going so he just stopped. Although boycotts. See Bud Light as an example. The American comic book industry Bud Lighted themselves.
I'm pretty sure the kids were just not interested in seeing Toy Story's Buzz Lightyear at that point because it was a film yesterday made like 15 years earlier especially when the successful film franchise of the minions had a new movie coming out at the exactly the same time . Case in point I went and saw the minions with my special needs group which by the way had a lot more marketing instead of Buzz Lightyear and I did not care whatsoever about the kiss scene in the trailer.
Not him but the anon said Bud Light, meaning the boycotts for the swill, not Buzz Lightyear the movie.
So, like I said, you’re an autistic frick. Only morons drink beer of any kind.
What’s with the all Redditors on Cinemaphile recently who have no reading comprehension?!?! I have never had this problem on Cinemaphile before in all my years of posting on Cinemaphile. I’ve never drank a Bud Light in my life, but boycotts work. If someone doesn’t like something such as the way the comic book industry is going, then stop buying the product. The customer is always right. All I did was answer OP’s question of why comic book are not selling. They went woke, so they went broke. All there is to it. Gaslighters such as yourself can deny reality and continue to push the woke agenda and continue to lose money. In fact, keep it up! You have a long way to go to catch up with the record-breaking winner. Disney’s the current record holder of losing a billion so far. Nobody cares anymore. Next time, OP asks why nobody buys comic books, I won’t bother to answer. Good-bye and have a nice day!
>y-you’re Reddit
Lol sure homosexual you totally fit in now. Drinking beer and talking about 5 year old comics that never came out is s Reddit as it gets.
Not him, but none of that is what he said at all. Furthermore, you completely missed the main idea and the point he made while arguing over semantics and pedantic details. That's Reddit behavior. Before you post here, please understand what was said and why rather than starting off-topic and irrelevant bickering for the attention. It's very cringe.
Anon, he's trolling, don't reply to him
>, literal characters called “snowflake” and “safe space.”
The comic was canceled because of covid-19 and possibly people making fun of it and it was never going to be anything more than a limited series of characters.Not to mention we never got any real idea how they would act why are people still making such a big deal about them?
You can tell the original tweeter has never bought a comic, based entirely on them not understanding why the racks would always pan out this way.
>How can the industry improve comic sales?
Make a product that people actually want to buy.
This is just for cape shit, but stop doing cross story series that require a reading order list. This shit is miserable. Just have self contained stories that don't require a list or call backs to older books (*as seen in big dick super heros #274 (1974)). I think I read one of the newish tean titans 2016? And they finished the story they were doing in a separate series book. Frick off. Other issue is comics price and release time. When the japs will pump out shit weekly like someone has a gun to their head; and then the bundled books are dirt cheap compared to western.
I've been enjoying Kaya, that books pretty fun.
This. If it wasn't for that one guy storytiming all the X books in the right order every week I wouldn't be able to follow it. I also would have dropped over half of them if I actually had to pay for them.
The Krakoa/X-Men line had a good formula at launch. You had 6 books, one of them is the flagship focusing on the core story, and the others were ancillary focusing on smaller stories. Marvel almost immediately fricked this up with X of Swords where they began a million side books like X-Corp, X-Factor, F4 x X-Men, ect., all running at once and all running for only a handful of issues. And the trend only got worse after Hickman left when he dropped both Inferno and Trail of Magneto. Suddenly every book was a micro story and we went from 6 mainline books to 12.
It made the X-men impossible to follow at the height of its interest. It also didn't help how most issues felt like they were just spinning their wheels until the next event where they would actually tell the story they wanted to.
>Company Wide crossover book ruins a comic book series
Yeah, this has been going on since the 80s.
>a fascist ethnostate is a good formula
thanks liberal capitalist. you saved the day.
moron, he was talking about the publishing schedule not the story content
>content wasn't factored in to whether something was a good plan
hm... i sense a recurring theme in this story...
>Two series that are one.
Kek, why not just make it one weekly series then, dumbasses? And notice how it doesn't even alternate evenly, there's an instance of two Powers and two Houses in a row. Geez.
I remember on Netflix they had a sort of cartoon version of the original mutant vaccine story ark with colossus being revive one about the those animated comics stories together put them on a YouTube channel for people to see for free and pay for some commercials time for people to see them so they can get interested in the medium?
>How can the industry improve comic sales?
Write something fans might want to read and share instead of embarrassing cringe designed to be hated?
No more floppies, they need to do longer chapters
Ancient tweet is ancient.
Enjoy your (you)s homosexual.
Lower prices and increase awesomeness.
They deserve to be saved.
No they don’t.
Recently went in to my local comic book shop, and noticed.... all western comics were gone, even graphic novels.
Its only manga, tabletop gaming, cards, and memorabilia.
I mean, western comics have been dead to me for about 20 years now, but its still something amusing to see.
Aren't most western comics generally too expensive to be be sold in local stores?
They are WAY overpriced for sure. But I'm not sure how that looks from the business perspective over what the consumer pays.
Owner wasn't in that day otherwise I would have asked him about throwing in the towel on comics, and how it was doing for the business. Which I'd imagine its doing great for him since they did have more foot traffic in the store then I'd seen in years.
It's combination of issues. The major one is direct distribution which kept comics out of places other than comic book shops. The floppy model is just not sustainable in this day and age even if you use really high quality paper and ink because it's 18 pages with ads in them.
It's wild how people try to twist themselves into knots about how comics are hurting because muh wokeness or "they're too hard" and completely ignore the direct model every time
Manga in Latam is read exclusively through piracy. If the comics were good people would read them, even if illegally
I think to some extent quality for comics has gone down but this is a result of 00's fanboys realizing working in comics sucks ass and it'd be better to do anything else. A lot of the writers during the 00's for better or worse were fanboys. They loved the characters they loved the stories a lot of modern writers don't seem to care for the history they just want to write a story regardless of who they use. I think people blame wokeness on too much. However, I will say an industry that leeches the same 50+ heroes over and over again, was doomed from the start. They had their chance to move on from these characters and make a living world that changes and grows with the times but they just decided to reboot everything every time.
That along with the floppies model makes it unsustainable. The people who like these characters are dying and the characters have such convoluted stories it's hard to engage with.
Lot of the creators from the 80's were also fanboys, and the stories from the 70's-80's are seen as classics. It's less that they're fans and more that editorial doesn't let them actually do anything substantial to a character unless its a new character without an established brand.
What I mean is that up until the 00's fanboys were running things. You still have a few of them but you have a lot of writers who just can't break into any other writing industry so they do this to pad their resume. As a result, you end up with some fairly unenthusiastic writing about characters they don't care about.
This is the main problem happening in comics. This is why there is so much forcing rainbow diversity that has nothing to do with the story at all, this is why there is hardly any actual heroing going on and no supervillains appearing at all, and why shit like Spider-Man is dealing with losing his girlfriend to some other guy. Or superman is dealing with his kid being gay, or Green Lantern is dealing with being jobless, or Flash dealing with PTSD....
it's all writers who do not want to be where they are, and are hoping to step up to film script writing. If they add in some LGBT stuff and post about it on twitter, maybe someone in film will see that and hire them. Maybe if they make some award winning tear jerker story about Kyle Rayner not dealing with stress well and freaking out, someone will notice that and pick them for some film gig.
Also comics is a dead end job now for writers who want desperately to work in tv and film script writing. Or they failed there and fell into comics. either way they do not like where they are or like what they do and want to graduate up really badly. So they are embarrassed about having to write about a superhero, or actively hate it and make their comic the most over dramatic piece of shit possible to hope to attract attention to land a nicer gig.
>They had their chance to move on from these characters and make a living world that changes and grows with the times but they just decided to reboot everything every time.
moron. These characters are bigger than the comics. They’re brands. Movies, tv, games and merch.
almost like the industry's was invaded by political activists hell bent of destroying/subverting American culture, in this case comic books.
Stop being lame.
It's that simple.
Too many comics these days are written by lame homosexuals, whether that be lame as frick over-the-hill Gen Xers trying to be hip and "with it" or lame as frick young millennials and older zoomers who think being gay is a replacement for a personality.
More comics need to be made by people who are mildly unhinged or who have a perspective that's just completely out there compared to the typical comic creators.
A good example being Simon Hanselmann, who grew up in the Aussie slums raised by a meth addict with a rotating door of drug addicted lovers and ended up a complete (but also self-aware) weirdo as a result.
More comics need to be made by farmers, military vets, pastors/preachers, mechanics, economists, physicists, just generally people from outside of the typical artist/writer niche that comics currently draw heavily from, especially since many artist and writer types these days are trust fund types with very little talent or actual passion.
surely we need more homosexuals and Black folks on our comics.
75% Warhammer? Where! I still see some shit on those shelves!
I mean, Wargaming/Warhammer is western material, right? So is it a really an L for us?
Demand goverment subsidies.
I don't know, I just want more good comics.
Frick floppies.
Ever notice how when western comics actually do something other than capes, it gets crazy popular and makes movies and shows almost instantly?
Like Scott Pilgrim, Walking Dead, V for Vendetta, Persepolis, TMNT, Sin City, Judge Dredd, or every single thing Vertigo ever made? Even fricking Ghost World made a movie and won awards. Even the old newspaper sunday comics inspired a lot of movies and tv tie-ins.
When this actually works over and over and over again, why do the major labels still cling to the 1960s depiction of Ultra Guy in a cape and mask, who lives in New York, fights the same 5 villains every single month, is a member of the Ultra League with the other capes...day in day out forever and ever?
>Ever notice how when western comics actually do something other than capes, it gets crazy popular and makes movies and shows almost instantly?
>Like Scott Pilgrim, Walking Dead, V for Vendetta, Persepolis, TMNT, Sin City, Judge Dredd, or every single thing Vertigo ever made?
You’re either a moronic casual who doesn’t understand most of the comics released monthly are not from the big 2 or you genuinely think these are the only non-big 2 comics ever made. Let alone the fact that only two or three vertigo series were adapted and most of them sucked throughout the years and were cancelled for poor sales. Or that almost none of those were instantly adapted at all.
have a nice day homosexual
>blah blah blah read Wolvering! blah blah Batman, why not just read Batman, you're a casual if you won't read the 15 different Batman titles every month!! Waaah Waaah
Congratulations, you are the exact type of fat basement dwelling neckbeard clinging to capeshit this entire thread exists to complain about. Frick off with this fellatiing to Marvel and DC you fricking permavirgin.
>thread about saving comics is focused on b***hing about the only people who buy them
How does it feel to be in the same boat as trannies and homosexuals destroying the industry?
Would anything of value be lost at this point?
Oh no we won't have a Spider-Man who spends more time pining about his ex wife and almost never punches a villain might end. Or Bat books that spend whole issues focusing on some minority b***h in Gotham having a hard time paying rent, and no Bat or villain action happening at all the whole issue. Or a Penguin monthly ongoing that is more about whining about his childhood than just any other subject that could come up in a mafia villain book.
burn it all down at this point, frick em
>I don’t buy them so they shouldn’t exist despite the fact that they could very well go on existing and selling better if the companies just stopped ignoring their key demographic to employ homosexuals male feminists and trannies.
have a nice day
so your logic is that they are perfectly fine right now and nothing is wrong because..they just are shut up?
>could very well go on existing and selling better if
Here’s the key part of that
>the companies just stopped ignoring their key demographic to employ homosexuals male feminists and trannies.
It’s pretty obvious you either cannot read or are here for (You)s, there is no way to read what I wrote and imagine I think it’s fine as is.
They aren’t. And just a quick inb4 some homosexual mentions the CCA which has NOTHING to do with it.
>They aren’t. And just a quick inb4 some homosexual mentions the CCA which has NOTHING to do with it.
fine 85%
Not even.
comics are in the state they're in specifically because companies think it's okay to have shit writing and because companies know bottom feeding normies have no standards. when movies are made, the extreme FEW people who MIGHT start reading comics have no frame of reference or expectations, and companies are exploiting that more and more for clickbait than laziness
>comics are in the state they're in specifically because companies think it's okay to have shit writing and because companies know bottom feeding normies have no standards.
no one gives a shit about writing according to the manga readers ITT
you just need a basic ongoing story, good art and sexy appealing characters
>have a nice day homosexual
No, I don't think I will 🙂
There are tons of western comics that aren't superhero books. Nobody reads them
Survivor Bias. There are ton of non-capeshit that immediately falls flat on its face. Look at how hyped Grim was last year as a supernatural book for it only to be completely forgotten about.
The frick is Grim?
A Boom! title from last year that was being hyped as the next big thing but is struggling now. Written by Stephanie Phillips and drawn by Flaviano. It received four reprints. It's about Grim Reapers doing things.
Only really successful indie title from the last 3 years I can think of is Stray Dogs which is currently being made into a movie.
marvel and dc are probably the only ones that shit out capeshit because it is their entire fricking brand.
I guess they could launch a new brand, call it whatever and launch other types of comics so they can have more material for movies and such.
There is also probably a shitload of no capeshit comics that just straight up fail.
Or another option, you fricking have a nice day you fat fricking homosexual
I dunno, I just keep thinking about Dark Horse b***hing about how most of their money is manga despite being barely any of their output, and they hate that fact (that and the fricking fumbled publishing Attack on Titan after it was basically given to them on a silver platter).
add Image Comics (Spawn, Savage Dragon, Witchblade, Bone, Invincible, Saga, Jupiter's Legacy, Kick-Ass, Radiant Black)
needs more POCs and LGTB+3.0ΔζλΣΨΦ, and hire more female and female(male) fanfic self-insert writters
The industry doesn't deserve to be saved.
You really can't
The market hasn't adapted in over 30 years and its a wonder its managed to survive at all
Consumers won't make buying comics part of their weekly spending in the same way the japanese do, so it's never gonna be profitable
The infrastructure to seek the right talent isn't there as writers and editors haven't worked in a truly competitive market in decades, so no one has a real idea on what readers want and few people who are actually GOOD want to work in comics
And with current politics, anything bold won't get made so who would want to even read
Everyone else in every other industry in every other medium updates what they do and how they do it for the changing times. Why can't comics? Looks like most comic companies still want to pretend it's 2002 for as long as humanly possible.
Music companies learned they cannot force people to buy CDs and gave in to mp3s, then started services like Spotify. They also learned people were more interested in buying singles than albums so they changed
Game Devs figured out people will but through digital download and maintain online marketplaces
Fricking McDonalds figured out people actually like quality coffee
Companies learned people actually like app shopping
Meanwhile comic companies demand that you keep on using the exact same specialty stores that have been around since the 80s, buy the same 20 page floppies that have been around since the 1800s, and read the same characters that have been around since the 60s, in the same monthly format. Evolve or die.
they've marginally tried with comic apps but the truth is its little to late
comic companies don't respect their customers and instead have tried to bleed out obsessive fanboys and scalpers since the 90s
this works on those idiots but general audiences can only take so much of that shit so they moved to other sources of entertainment
Comics have gone in the same direction as other geek media types of things.Everyone is in the hands of collector geeks who only want to make content for fellow collector geeks. Frick the general public.
Record companies tried really really fricking hard to force everyone to stick to pretending it was still 1993 for the longest time before they finally gave in and learned people are just plain not going to get back into buying CDs. I think they finally gave in and updated with the times around 2010, I'm sure some old fricks in charge had to either die off or retire before doing that though.
They've tried online apps before, like Comixology, and they quickly found they were servicing completely different audiences. The audience that was going to a LCS every week to maintain their collection or follow a story was different than the ones reading it online. It also didn't help that Comixology was a pretty bad service that made it hard to follow series and made it hard to read comics. Marvel and DC tried making their own apps and both of them were pretty miserable to read on anything other than an iPad. Even when DC tried to break out of comic book stores with The New 52 inciative it didn't work.
The reality is that weekly comic book audience is deeply resistant to change. They like picking up floppies every week and they want to keep it that way. So companies figured out they might as well turn into an idea workshop where they can test new ideas.
the weekly comic book audience is a bunch of old heads
they won't live forever. when they die, comics will die
maybe that'll be good so we can get that great reset but if companies want to stay alive they need to transition
Weekly runs into the issue of affordability. People will drop $5 on a monthly book, but weekly that gets pricey for some people.
Unironically start from scratch.
>full continuity reboot
>5-10 comics at most for flagship characters or ensembles
>each issue is a standalone story
>Make annual crossover event the only multi-part stories
Reboots are what caused this fricking mess. The inability to let old characters die and new characters grow is why were are at this point.
Nobody cares about the new characters, they only want the originals. People only want Bruce Wayne Batman. Not DickBats or that one black guy whose name escapes me.
so why is manga outselling?
It's cheaper and aimed at children.
Who are comic books aimed at?
nothing says mature content like man in spandex saying FRICK
Do you have the /misc/ version?
Nah only tumblr version from that bortposting thread from a couple of days ago, also if we were to compare the hobby boards in a scale from lgbt to pol we would would had Cinemaphile then Cinemaphile and then Cinemaphile
DickBats was pretty popular. Replacement characters can work (temporarily) with a concerted effort of quality stories and good marketing.
why do we need reboots and not just actually good stories, not connected to any mess of poorly improvised branding
>Crisis
>Zero Hour
>Infinite Crisis
>Flashpoint/New 52
>Convergence
>Rebirth
>Death Metal
>Infinite Frontier
Heheh. Yeah. Another reboot will surely fix everything.
Skip floppies and go right to trades, at least then you get a complete story arc and it doesn't feel like throwing your money in a pit and setting it on fire.
honestly you might be onto something. i'd love to actually be able to read a story arc, it'd be easier to read like that
You can't. It's systemic rot that goes all the way through. Too many terrible people have grown their roots into the industry like weeds and can't be removed. You have to go nuclear and bankrupt the big publishers to get rid of them.
Bad practices in both upper and lower levels of management. Logistical shittery. Terrible habits from artists and writers and terrible expectations from the few remaining fans.
I don't know how many times it needs to be said. Guys like Tony Valente getting his own anime in japan, a foreign fricking market once considered to be completely inaccessible, only underlines my point. Manga. Will. Win.
And I don't say that to be inflammatory. I don't even like modern manga. But they will take over and they will become the new standard across the board because the big publishers spent too many decades refusing to pull their heads outta their asses while a competitor spent that time fine tuning an entire entertainment pipeline that spans from light novels to comics to tv series to full theatrical releases.
Isn't that how it works though? The old dogs refuse to change, refuse to update, keep their old ways until it drives them out of business. While other competitors build up, update for the newer audience and do well.
Yeah, it is. It's the natural order. The successful competitor wins. But for some reason any time you try to speak rationally about it on Cinemaphile, you tend to get angry replies from people with sunk cost delusions. But it is inevitable
Well yeah, a large percentage of the population is made up of the same types who refuse to change, refuse to update, and want everything to be the exact same as it was 30 years ago when they were younger. it's why they also never wants characters to change either, the same characters in the same books ongoing for decades. They get defensive and angry when they see something threatening their comfort zone.
That's just it though, migrating to a more successful format/style/medium doesn't mean all the capeshit just goes away. There will always still be capes made in the old fashioned way. Just like with all hobbies. There are people who still use film cameras, people who still use dip ink pens, people who still use rotary phones. Capes would have continued to exist, simply in smaller numbers, while the rest of the industry comfortably adapted to a new manga inspired movement. Instead the industry clung to its old ways, and, in a desperate attempt to stay afloat, ended up ruining capes beyond repair. This isn't a case of "change for the sake of change" like we're seeing in other areas, it's a case of "adapt or die to someone better"
I just want a Shonen Spider-Manga that actually has Spider-Man as the MC.
that's the current Miles book anon according to the writer
The writer is a fat black homosexual who only has his job because he’s gay and black. One of the fat homosexuals who ruined she-hulk.
>One of the fat homosexuals who ruined she-hulk.
and many other shows
I meant a REAL manga.
how's that Doc Ock in a little girl's body manga going?
>how's that Doc Ock in a little girl's body manga going?
NTA, but I've been reading it and it's extremely bland.
Don't care about about any of the characters, originals or Marvel ones, if they all died I wouldn't give a frick.
The only entertaining character is the spirit of Doc Ock, and it's not enough to salvage the manga.
Even the fake Spider Man manga was better than this shit.
Why is it so difficult for these guys to just make a Shonen Spider-Manga with Spidey himself as the MC? None of this weird shit. It should be a no-brainer.
I believe Marvel/DC got them on a contractual leash: they can only make non-serious, comedic stories (like Deadpool or this Doc Ock manga) or make their own spinoff character (like Spider Sakura, which I didn't like).
They also probably want to avoid the "Japanese SpiderMan" situation from the past, with tons of rape, drugs are realistic violence.
>the artstyle carries manga and anime
>that's why so many manga and jap artists are treated like celebrities online
I don't agree.
Oh Great! is a genius artist and a shittiest writer, should've stuck to doing only the drawings, or just porn.
The original author of OnePunchMan, ONE, is a case of a really good writer and a barely decent artist.
>OnePunchMan
you know damn well the anime and manga by murata is what made it popular
Yes, but the webcomic is still the superior version, while the manga has turned into uninspired slop.
No one likes a pretentious nerd. Get your head out of your ass.
>I believe Marvel/DC got them on a contractual leash: they can only make non-serious, comedic stories (like Deadpool or this Doc Ock manga) or make their own spinoff character
Then they’re dumbasses. A Spider-Manga with the actual Spider-Man as the lead could potentially sell like hotcakes. Is this a pride thing?
>Is this a pride thing?
Probably, they might want to avoid the japs showing the world that they can make better superhero stories than Marvel/DC, using their own characters.
>japs showing the world that they can make better superhero stories than Marvel/DC, using their own characters.
i doubt that
have you seen my hero?
they literally couldn't even do the most basic capeshit right
I hate MHA and I'd still take it over modern Marvel/DC.
Same. MHA may be dogshit, but it's a breeze to read and the chicks are hot.
Sorry anon, but I agree with
Marvel/DC capeshit has gone to shit, it's difficult to even conceive worse than that.
They did way back in the 70's
It gets... weird.
isn't this one where Spider-man goes on about the Tiger Force inside all humans or something?
I think? I just remember it getting all dark and weird.
force comic book stores to let their customer have gay sweaty sex in their stores
The solution is to reboot Superman for the 9001st time!
Burn it. Burn it all.
>wtf why do they keep building sentinels?
Bruh, the context of the panel is that she's an obnoxious heckler trying to get a reaction out of the Thing
You're NOT supposed to agree with her
I still don't wanna read that shit in a comic book. I don't need to be reminded about people like this for some sort of social commentary. They could help sales by not writing this kind of modern day twitter dialogue, so people can't post panels out of context and sully the reputation of comics online
" Respectively"
FMD
Words have meanings, and respectively is not the same as "Respectfully" which is the only similar looking word that makes sense.
Do they not have editors?
More girlbosses,subverting expectations, and absolutely, positively, nothing young white heterosexual people might enjoy.
Manga art is more appealing to look at
said no one at all ever in history
I said it
Oh boy, you're delusional if you really think people don't have a larger appreciation for manga art in 2023
Western comics may well not even exist for those under the age of 30.
Not kids anymore, not at those prices, you need a job to get into comics not pocket money.
What's the gender and age range of the target audience?
Males in their thirties+
Usually wealthy white women in their 30s, but it's actually bought by white men reaching their 40s.
White Males typically approaching 40 because comics became pretty stagnant in the 00s, so only people who bought them when they were kids in the early 90s extreme days are still into them.
What the writers want are LGBT and minority teens so they can make claims of being amazing saviors and allies on twitter really badly. Editors also want that because they switched over to using social media as the main form of market research around 2015ish. So they see LGBT stuff gaining loads of traction on twitter, they demand more of that because they think that is what all teens are into and love. Social media also misrepresents numbers pretty badly and causes Editors to assume that this is a massively majority population they have not successfully tapped into yet.
That ignoring the decades of subvertion, indocttination and extremazation in art/philosophy "schools" and the huge nepotism linked to it
Isn't manga mostly published in collected magazines? Stuff like Shonen Jump rather than individual floppies? That seems like a way more feasible way for new manga to get off the ground and gain readership than stand alone issues.
>Go buy usual manga magazine to read next chapter of your favorite story
>Flip through the rest of the stories as well because you have the magazine, might as well see what else is in there or check out the new manga starting in this copy
>It's something actually good
>Publishers learn that people like it through feedback or merch sales or whatever
>Compile the issues into volumes which sell
>Enter publishing deal with gaijin so it can sell abroad
>High likelihood of it getting a fotm anime pumped out by enslaved Korean animators to further promote it
But with western comics you're just confronted by a massive wall of floppies you've never heard of and that you would have to buy individually to see if they're any good. Maybe you've seen advertisements or previews for them in an issue of another comic from the same publisher, but you have to make the conscious choice to pick up an issue of whatever the latest Image comic is or something from some indie publisher, and for all you know it might be pure dog shit or not something you want to spend a few dollars on every month to get more of. It's easier to just stick with what you know; it's not like most new titles from the Big 2 really take off and get popular compared to the staying power of their real icons, after all.
this would have worked 20 years ago maybe but general audiences won't buy physical media
Anthologies don’t work over here because of identity politics. Nobody is paying for Chud/Woke comics just to get their Woke/Chud comic.
This is a gross over-simplification but that’s essentially the problem. Over in Japan publishers focus on their demographic. Over here they try to double and triple dip on demographics that have zero overlap.
>Over in Japan publishers focus on their demographic.
Why don't the big 2 do this?
Hard to focus on demographics other than sweaty manchildren because those are the demographics that still go to local comic shops, which drives away other groups.
DC would legitimately benefit from opening up their own physical stores, and Marvel would benefit from Disney stores selling physical comics, because then both companies would be free to actually market to other demographics instead of everything be forced to homogenization to appeal to sweaty manchildren.
Look at DC appealing to old men. Why do you homosexuals keep gaslighting people? I'm talking to all the homosexuals ITT that I'm too lazy to quote
you're right
they appeal to no one
Yeah and it keeps failing because only sweaty manchildren buy comics anymore.
Because the same people buy comics regardless of quality to then moan about them. Why are you denying this happens? The whole industry has been built on this for so long.
We're all agreed that this appeals to no-one, but who was it intended to appeal to? It's like a "Looney Tunes" comic, only it's written and illustrated by somebody with a learning difficulty.
It wasn't made to "appeal". It was written by a woman who fricked and/or blackmailed her way into the industry.
"Say, you better greenlight my comic. Are you a sexist racist nazi? #Metoo"
So many stunning and brave damsels who got in by intimidating men via cancellation thanks to #Metoo. The worst part is this shit ain't going anywhere.
>Marvel would benefit from Disney stores selling physical comics
They don't do this already? What the frick.
They unironically have focused on their demographic here. The same dwindling population of comic book users. All their talk of branching out or diversifying for "seeking new audiences" is bollocks when they have the same few bags of tricks. If people actually stopped buying the main characters at DC and Marvel then things might change. But the demographic of "will buy Batman no matter whatever the quality" wins out.
It helps a lot that the manga comes in black and white newsprint. They can save a lot on paper and make for a cheaper book. Comic companies have been staking their prices on splash pages, glossy foil covers and other stupid high quality art gimmicks for thirty years now and are not about to downgrade.
Start over with professionals who care about the art, not hacks who care about social control, inserting themselves into famous characters, and their self-interest.
To do that, you first need the art and writing gigs to not be gig jobs that are only gained through social media. It attracted the types who build up everything through social media clout first, and their actual job a very distant second.
it would help animation too for the exact same reason.
It's fricking depressing to know that almost all the issues coming out of these industries would be resolved if the art and writing jobs were firmly based on resume and portfolio, and now twitter clout or being famous enough to draw director attention to yourself on twitter, or tumblr back in 2013 days.
This. I feel like I could have been a wonderful writer and animator, but with absolutely no connections in the industry, I had no idea how to even get started in the industry, if it was even possible, so I just gave up on it. I don’t even write or doodle at all anymore.
Draw boobs, draw lewds, draw e-girls.
>draw e-girls
Anon, it's never gonna happen.
Welp, then you Cinemaphilemic bros better accept your fate that manga won.
How do you fix an industry whose appeal is entirely different from manga?
Capeshit is too dominant of a force in the industry and too reliant on spinoff and crossover culture
It makes it impossible to condense it into a easy to follow format
One solution is for capeshit to die for a while and to leave room for non capeshit to grow
Also they need to work like a tv production where you have an entire season done before the first episode airs so you can post a new chapter weekly
It'll keep readers tuning in often
That is the exact problem with cape movies now, they adopted the exact same spinoff and crossover culture. Now to get into the next MCU movie you now need a pretty detailed knowledge of at least two separate Disney+ series, along with a more obscure movie from a few years ago. Or else you are not going to know what in the hell is happening in this movie now. Then every single movie is some small part in a bigger overlapping story, so now you have to watch movies that you might have never given a shit about just to know what is happening in this movie now.
But also the big 2 are not going anywhere despite how many times they fail and frick up. Due to being incredibly lucrative IP farms for two major studios. Batman and Spider-Man will forever be profitable in some form so Disney and WB are never ever going to let them go anywhere.
>One solution is for capeshit to die for a while and to leave room for non capeshit to grow
Do you kickstarter homosexuals really think this would happen? Jesus fricking Christ you’re deluded
i said it's ONE solution
another one is the big 2 to just market non cape shit that isn't based on some other massive property better
i'm just talking out of my ass here, but i assume that most people get introduced to comics through tv shows or movies
anime is used to promote the thing it's adapting from
look at how invincible comics got a boost in popularity because the animated show
>another one is the big 2 to just market non cape shit that isn't based on some other massive property better
They’d sell even worse than their cape shit
at first but if its good (lol) it could eventually eclipse sales of capeship
this would be a risk and obviously not everything will make it, but that's the kind of battleground entertainment is supposed to be to get stories that people will like
manga is very much that kind of environment
shit gets canceled left and right, most people get paid like shit. not everyone ends up being a Masashi Kishimoto. hell most people would be lucky to be a Seishi Kishimoto (the naruto creator's less successful twin brother)
But this is good for readers, a place where there's a consistent stream of new stories being made
It doesn't even need to be good
a lot of popular manga and anime is fricking garbage yet does extremely well
shit like the bayformer movies were hugely successful despite being god awful
this whole "it needs to be good" or "it wont sell" is just cope keeping people from trying
It just needs to be ENTERTAINING. Just solid enough to work.
sure, popularity isn't really an indicator of quality but the most important take away is that there's something for everyone
with western media they try to change something already popular to fit every demographic. its why you have all the constant race, gender, and sexuality swaps all the time
Capeshit doesn't need to die, there just needs to be other genres with actual decent art and storytelling to make a mark. Right now, capeshit is the only thing within comics that are considered "quality" by the masses.
why are comics 90% capeshit?
American comics used to be produced in a large number of different genres but people stopped reading them and capeshit is the only thing that survived. Non-capeshit comics most likely got replaced by television, capeshit comics were able to compete with TV because TV can't do capeshit special effects on a TV budget.
Since everyone is talking about dead and dying formats with IPs, the other side of western comics was the newspaper comics section. Which was also a huge IP farm for movies and cartoons for decades. They had nowhere to go once newspapers stopped being remotely important to society at large.
But when they were successful they were fricking huge. Garfield and Peanuts still get animated series to this day. Loads of series got to a level of popularity and went on to make animated series. But now there is just no real format for comedy comics in the US. No one wants to bother with a book, and no decent place to show them off and get attention.
I remember shipping Jeremy from Zits and Luanne from Luanne before shipping became a thing.
Following the social media pages of your favorite comic strips is a good way to keep up with them. I see Foxtrot in my instagram feed every day and Instagram's swipe panels feature on posts is fantasatic for the 3 or 4 panel format
I always waited for my parents to hand me the funny pages every time we got the weekly newspaper that had them. To some people like me, newspaper comics were their only exposure to comics because capes weren't readily available. They're extremely underrated in terms of cultural impact. I had maybe 2 "regular" comic books in my entire life that I collected by chance. And I still ended up more partial to manga than comics when I got older because it was somehow more similar to newspaper comic strips. I'm glad that people no longer get their news from one source these days, but it does suck that it sacrifices comic strips in the process. There's no alternative for social media feeds. Short form animation seems to have replaced it. Unless you count comics like pebblethrow
They are definitely underrated now, but I don't think that was true before the 1990s or so. They followed the same format of gaining popularity until a tv show, holiday specials or live action adaptation was inevitable. I almost want to say they started losing mainstream popularity around the time cape comics started gaining it in the mid 90s or so when cape movies and tv tie-ins became more and more frequent. slightly before the downfall of the newspaper industry.
I just know most people have never stepped foot in a comic book store. But most people over the age of 25 have seen a page of newspaper strips at least once in their life. It's still comics, as simple as the strip format is. If they had never existed, most Americans might never have read any kind of comic at all. You're right about all that though, the 2000's was the start of the 24/hr news cycle so newspapers started tanking. And capes definitely had a huge uptick like with the spiderman movie, I remember my old 2000's Yamaha keyboard came with Hero by Chad Kroeger as a song preset just because of that.
>and no decent place to show them off and get attention
That shit was just replaced by social media.
To boil it down to the roots, the modern entertainment battle is the battle for attention. Why watch a movie when you can play vidya? Why play vidya when you can listen to a podcast or youtube video for free? Everything is diluted because there is more content than ever. Newspapers and TV shows had large cultural relevance when they had the numbers to back it up.
>That shit was just replaced by social media.
this
buzzfeed has their own Garfield now with that chicken nugget dog
The only ones who can still live in a similar format are like stonetoss, simple, with a point and a particular writing style, obviusly the cartoons for kids can't do that so they can only exist as animated series or movies, and that's if they are picked by a studio or betflix has decides to give a frick about animation for a year vefore cancelling 90% of it
Does the Fantagraphics stuff sell? They have plenty of manga, comics and indie comics there in their catalogue.
To certain niche audiences. The Peanuts and Disney reprints sell the most. 90% of their output is weirdo shit.
'Time is a flat circle.' Everything we've ever done or will do, we're gonna do over and over and over again.
I have seen this thread a thousand times before and will see it a thousand times again. Every comment the same. Every argument the same. Every suggestion, every generalisation. People here mostly don't like the medium anyway and just want to talk about the same culture war narratives. Or bait an east vs west thread. No one will back anything up with evidence or actual industry knowledge. The people saying everything is shit never want to try anything new anyway and then don't realise they are as much of an issue. People act like everything is ruined, again, every few months, because on the Internet it is far easier to criticise than ever put yourself out there with what you like. (To talk about what you enjoy is the equivalent of being instantly sieged.) There is no analysis about comicbooks anymore on this board. This hobby has steadily become solitary as the Internet drives away any actual individual thought. Stuff is either cool, never to be elaborated on or just ripped into pieces depending on whatever bland perception on the state of things you have.
See you next time.
You don't think people keep making the same comments and suggestions about the same industry is because they see the industry is dying and not doing a single thing to make a change at all?
No shit we keep coming to the same conclusions when it's nonstop
>Hey this company is really doing badly, what could fix it?
>How about doing this?
then a year later, the company is still dying, has not changed a thing and
>Hey this company is really doing badly, what could fix it?
>How about doing this?
Two years later the company is doing even worse than before, still having changed nothing at all
>Hey this company is really really doing badly for the last several years now, what could fix it?
>How about doing this?
see why we are going in circles? We keep seeing things get worse and worse and worse, we know something needs to change, we talk about the changes they really should be doing, yet nothing is done at all and things continue to get worse..
>and worse and worse and worse
And then you question yourself why are they still alive, were is the inflection point if there is even one?, and then you start realizing the connections and see bigger patterns
NTA you were replying to. Which part of the industry is dying? Are we just talking about capeshit here?
Shops closing? It is no where near the 90s crash when well over half the shops closed. Shops live and die based upon their owners decisions. A couple shops close like OP and everyone acts like it is huge numbers. Place it in context of general economic downturn when coffee shops close in my town all the time. The good shops diversified ages ago.
Capeshit? Half the people in the thread just have nostalgia for their childhood comics which were meh or say capeshit is bad. Even in the past a writer could come along and write a shit arc. But constantly complaining everything is ruined.
Culture war narratives because of nu-writers. See above. The old Spider-man stories aren't erased because of stupid shit like Paul. Don't support them. But people endlessly consume Spider-Man to complain about shit like Paul rather than reading older stuff or moving on or waiting for a more favourable creator to come along.
The medium won't die. I consider manga to be comics like franco-belgian or British. The only thing that is dying is everyone ITT clinging on to things while complaining about them. Move on and find comics you actually enjoy. (Whenever I say this people just say all comics are shit anyway.) The problem is you're clinging onto the old in the same way parts of the industry are, while everything else is moving on. Comics won't die but the current industry form will change. I have seen the big two try sometimes to *fix* things with peoples suggestions. More manga like books, anthologies, other genres, reboots. And it never really worked. When they actually do suggested changes it ends up being a flash in the pan. The truth is most of the big two books were always kinda iffy but had more cultural relevance for shit loads of reasons. (Comics journal would complain about capeshit in the same way most of you do now even back in the day.)
>Shops closing?
Who the frick uses shops anymore?
That probably means you'd spend too much time online. It's not always the same people making the same posts but it is your reading the same thing each time.
Your attempt at looking above it all just shows what a loser you are
Great b8 m8.
>implying there isn't a spam and repetition of thread topics.
You're either naive or a newbie.
>Your attempt at looking above it all just shows what a loser you are
And that is exactly what you're doing. You accused him of being meta while you yourself are just trying to be meta about him being meta. And now I am being meta about you being meta about him being meta. Isn't this all redundant.
I discovered recently that an LCS I used to frequent closed down. The owner moved into a smaller space to focus exclusively on tabletop and gaming stuff.
Given that whenever I wanted to order a comic he gave me the stink eye, made accessing the comics difficult since you had to squeeze between all the stacks of board games, and he would regularly get into arguments about character backstories instead of ringing up the stuff he was trying to sell, I think the problem was sjws.
>t. sjw
You can't. Just let it die.
This stuff doesn't exist in a bubble.
Everything is too expensive. A comic book is a luxury item. If I have to choose between that and a day's worth of groceries that's not a hard choice to make.
>manga still selling well
ok so make it cheap like manga
>nooooooo my colors nooooo my shiny paper
Like watching Lennie pet his dead dog after killing it, then getting pissed it died
I Hate Fairyland without the obnoxious shading in the coloring would be nice.
Most coloring is obnoxious in comics if your dopamine receptors aren't fried like a child raised on fingerfamily and cocomelon videos
Is that a complement?
Is being overstimulated a good thing? I don't know, it's a staple of being american though
Most of the time overstimulation in comic coloring makes the comics look obnoxious and ruins the drawings.
Yeah but try even suggesting that comics stop using color
Comicgays seethe because they can't live without it
Colorists seethe because they'd be out of a job
Print companies seethe because they make bank on expensive glossy color printing
Industry seethes because they have to restructure their operation which takes actual effort
Cinemaphile seethes and starts spamming horse scat porn because manga is bad don't copy manga no no no stop manga bad
Don’t say that. You’ll summon him.
>Comicgays seethe because they can't live without it
Not that anon. I think that's a false conventional wisdom pushed primarily by retailers themselves. The comics crash of the 90s is part of the industry's institutional memory. Rather than blaming it on speculation, overproduction, and overbuying, they blamed it on black and white comics. They continued this narrative as a way to raise the barrier of entry to comics publishing, thus reducing the amount of work they'd have to do on ordering.
Older fans may have a strong preference for color, but manga has pretty much proven that b/w is perfectly fine for new readers. In fact, they may be accustomed to it. I'm not saying they are going to manga because it's b/w, simply that it's not the detriment everyone thinks it is.
B/W doesn't have to be a sweeping change. It's notable that One Op Joker is currently one of DC's better selling trades, and I think we'll glean a lot of useful information from how well their manga-sized trade line do whenever that launches.
Are you this overwhelmed by the coloring choices of most modern anime?
Honestly yes, I don't like how most modern anime uses plastic color palletes for skin tones.
Yeah actually modern anime is an eyesore in that department
>ok so make it cheap like manga
How. By being black and white? Using cheaper paper? Ok, now what?
Actually publish stuff more people want to read. The dominance of superheroes lead to an indie scene that despises escapism and put out artsy work for niche audiences. American comics can barely make any action, adventure, or romcom series that last more then one volume and are actually pleasant to read.
We have plenty of non-hero shit already, moron. People just don't want to buy them.
>put out artsy work for niche audiences
Some of the biggest indie success stories were practically cape shit anyway, like TMNT. When people say all indie shit is arty farty they are just generalising all that shit.
>You need to go in with a fricking tour guide
Biggest problem comics have is how difficult it is to find anything.
How do people find out about new books? Catalogues - who reads them? Comics Youtube is a circlejerk. Shelf space is mostly reserved for the same crap. So many owners aren't great at recommendations. You Google recommendations and you get the same few fricking lists. Nothing is marketed or advertised. Social media is trash for this too. There aren't any mainstream media organisations talking about comics. And even places like Cinemaphile or god forbid, Reddit, never really talk about anything. To find anything you have to actually go on a deep dive and look at creators, social media, beyond the first few pages of results. And this is too much fricking effort. The problems for comics is they are so archaic that some people still rely on their shop owner to steer them in a good direction. What other modern business reliant on decent customer services in stores? Barely any.
>Reddit, never really talk about anything
r/graphicnovels seems to
>r/graphicnovels
There are lists. There are people mentioning new releases. There are people making jokes. It still lacks a certain amount of depth. Problem is it ends up still talking about a small number of books.
This, people aren't getting into non-superhero comics because they're horrifically badly advertised/marketed and unless you're already actively looking into the genre then you're basically not going to even remotely know what's out there.
Learn how to depict fight scenes
can't beat manga
Have DC and Marvel cancel exactly all titles permanently.
OK HOLD UP.
You wanna know why comics are dying?
Because they're incestuous. It's the same 2 dozen characters over and over and over and over again, stretched out to infinity. Anime has all sorts of storylines and characters. It's not inbred. Also the diversity SJW stuff, but mostly being inbred.
Manga have higher quality writing. It doesn't rely on gimmicks like nostalgia to sell.
Bullshit.
Manga stories are horribly written. If anything manga shows that the issue with comics is that comics aren't artist first. Artist first comics in the 90s were horribly written but sold very well. The comics crash was more the fault of speculators for the indies/DC. Marvel only almost went bankrupt because of poor business decisions, like buying loads of trading card companies, and not because of sales.
>Manga stories are horribly written.
Explain to me how Berserk is bad.
this
the artstyle carries manga and anime
that's why so many manga and jap artists are treated like celebrities online
There are plenty of nip writers that are treated as celebrities as well. No one likes FKM for his art.
Anon, the manga you see topping the charts are either nostalgia manga or the most popular anime of the season.
I don't think there's a single nostalgia manga that tops the bestsellers list in America.
Stuff like Tokyo Ghoul sells more on a yearly basis in America than tentpole nostalgia franchises like Fist of the North Star or Naruto.
Tg is 00 nostalgia though
Tokyo Ghoul started in 2011.
That's be like calling Made in Abyss 00s nostalgia.
You are right sorry.
Actually walk into a manga shop in Japan and look at what doesn't merit translation and tell me that.
Manga works on murderous schedules because it ages like milk. If the average book doesn't hook a gimmick the month of, chances are it will never be read. For good reason.
>manga ages like milk
i dunno. i just started reading gunsmith cats and it seems fine so far. only on page 56 though
>gunsmith cats
I wish it was actually good. The art is top notch.
>it ages like milk
>meanwhile every shot has manga from 70s and 80s that are still read and enjoyed even now
Lol. Such a shitty cope.
> 20 Page self contained issues with new chapter released weekly
vs
> 10 page monthly issues that progress at a snails pace and require you to buy ten other issues to know what happened beforehand and what happens afterwards.
Factor in that the art typically looks like shit in Western comics and that Manga also has random stuff and pervy stuff as options and you can see why they're more appealing. If Western comics could keep up with Manga story output and keep things mostly self contained in their issues and their sales would go up.
If you could also regularly see things that were off the wall like Archie vs Punisher or The Flintstones reboot and they also had Frank Cho esque Jones thrown in you'd have the kind of fun that Manga offers.
>> 10 page monthly issues that progress at a snails pace and require you to buy ten other issues to know what happened beforehand and what happens afterwards.
In my country Marvel and DC comics are actually sold by combining 3-4 US issues together. Like you buy our X-Men and you have the current issue of three X-Men series. I was honestly surprised when I discovered that in the US they were all sold separately
You just need to promote the cool comic book that inspired the popular adaptation in book stores.
Like come on, people. Scott Pilgrim did it, heck, even Percy Jackson did it and his two movies sucked!
Honestly that ship has left the port. Japan's manga industry is a legitimate industry. It is supported both culturally and arguably economically (but tbf mangaka and assistants are paid shit). There's even a timeline for the growth of popularity for stories via the LN->Manga->Anime pipeline. Think back to how many comic book tv shows there are, and you'd realize that there's less than a 100. Meanwhile 100 anime shows can be released per SEASON. This isn't even a quality issue because there are more shit manga than shit comics, it's a lifecycle issue.
>but tbf mangaka and assistants are paid shit
They're gonna have a tougher time with that new invoice law.
It's almost as if not having lunatics and cowards running your industry is a good thing.
>not having lunatics and cowards running your industry is a good thing.
>does he know.jpg
Based editor-san keeping his pimp hand strong and his creative's leash tight.
Damn, seems you guys would hate the doujinshi market for being free of editor-mandated bullshit.
The only doujin I care about are the porn doujin.
Namely the e-girl/shota porn.
>Grorious nipponese manga is better because it gives you one creator's vision
>But also it's better because editors steamroll their creatives into writing whatever garbage they want
You sound like you'd really enjoy Marvel comics
>Marvel
>editors
>implying
That's not a "lunatic". That's an Editor who knows how to keep the "creatives" in line. Also
>Woman complaining
Of course.
I dunno man, being forced to redraw a shitload of pages within such a bullshit deadline, along with having key story ideas shot down constantly no matter what, really reeks of lunatic behavior to me.
>There's even a timeline for the growth of popularity for stories via the LN->Manga->Anime pipeline
That's the WN->LN->Manga->Anime->OVA->Drama CD->Video game->Theatrical Film->Stage play->Live action series pipeline. Feel free to swap WN->LN-> for VN-> and there might be a TCG or gacha game or pachinko or novelization in there somewhere too.
Just report them as automated spam bots because that's what they are
Be entertaining.
The people making comics forget that they're supposed to be ENTERTAINING.
they haven't had to be entertaining in over 30 years
they can get by on selling off a brand
For me it's the writers and artists who are paid so little they have to beg for money on social media yet they viciously attack anyone who claims the industry isn't doing well.
Because games make more bank these days.
Daily reminder that the f/a/ggots on this board pushing East v. West shit are hated literally everywhere, especially on Cinemaphile. They are such wiener gobbling drama prostitutes and shit stirrers that even the DBSpics can't stand them.
Now that everyone knows who they are and their methods, they're getting less and less effective and it's really starting to piss them off. They're scheming and seething in their discord groups about gathering new screen caps and graphs to spam here, buta all diminishing returns and it's getting their axe wounds in a twist. I'm sure they'll figure out something new to spam in the future, but until that happens, I'm just gonna enjoy their seething and coping.
They are only hated by delusional homosexuals like you who can't accept the current comic industry's shit state and will see any form of criticisms as an attack.
You only hate it because people is pointing out how healthy the manga industry is for not having a stupid culture war like the amerifarts comics industry and you just can't accept it.
Did I ever say the modern industry was a good? Hell no, it's breaking down and dying a death. However, I also see the good works that can still come.out or the good stuff from the past, and don't think any discussion of that should be undermined by you parading around like a bunch of smug pricks to people who didn't antagonize you. You all just come in here from your little troony servers on Discord to stir shit because you're lives have no meaning beyond Internet drama.
>YoU'rE dElUsIoNaL
I know who you people are and I know what you are. You literally cannot gaslight me.
Stop selling floppies. Get into the internet age and support it.
It's the fact that manga has a start and end and characters don't get passed around like some sort of zomibe STD
That’s not it.
Well first they need to stop pretending America is a rich country and that kids just have $5 to spen on each pull, with that in mind what are the poor asian countries doing oh right webnovels and webtoons gee I guess this internet thing is gonna stick huh maybe leave prints for trades and collectors
>How can the industry improve comic sales?
I only buy old comics that no one cares about for $2 an issue at junk shops and antique stores, so it's really not my problem.
It can't. Now stop making this thread.
Either stick to old comics or leave Cinemaphile. No one wants you here.
Seriously?
>Publishers out comics out to sellers for free and are paid only on what sells.
On spec- same as some used car dealers do.
If it doesn't sell then you can bet there will be massive focus on " what do the customers want".
Cost cutting would become vital, only established good sellers would be worth the full colour glossy treatment.
By putting the product out "on spec" lots more shops are likely to carry the product on shelves.
When I walk into a comic shop and see a manga, it's clearly labelled volume 1 and I can pick up the book, not a single advert in sight throughout the 100-200 pages, and I get to have a quick read to see if I really would enjoy it or not.
When I walk into a comic shop and see a comic, it's issue number is usually hidden and it's probably arc 4 of a 9 chapter story which you'd never know because it doesn't say, and I can pick up the comic book and not get a good look at it because the back is obscured with a thin cardboard lining and it's tucked into a plastic sleeve. There's adverts every 4-5 pages out of the 20 or so that contains the entire "book" and the only possible way I can discern if this is a product I would want to purchase is "how good does the cover art look", and guess what, that cover art will always look a thousand times better than what's inside.
This is ontop of comics ALWAYS being capeshit because Marvel and DC are too chickenshit to make romcoms or highschool schlock or sports stuff like manga typically does.
One things I noticed about manga is that they have a lot of fresh writers all the time. There is new manga created by newcomers every week. Some of it dies in obscurity, some of it actually succeedes. Anyway, you have a lot of different people working on different things. I can pick Shonen Jump for my daily dose of shonen slope but every shonen is different in its own way, even so slightly.
Now with comics, it's seem that the industry is carried on the backs of few whale writers. Bendis works for Marvel, he works for DC. Same as any big name writer. Hickman writes his X-men like he wrote his FF. OK, I'm bored of same old faces. What's that? Indies? Huh, Black Monday Murd- aaargh!
What I'm saying, the comic book industry is like a dozen or so whales circle jerking themselves. There are should be more big time hits by newcomers.
It's only a small problem. It wouldn't make comics successful. I mean, some of them are really good writers. But you know what I'm talking about. More new talent with their unique visions.
The most low budget technique that 'could' work for the comics industry is release compilation magazines of brand new stories from new writers/artists. Exactly like what Shonen Jump, 2000AD and Heavy Metal (when it was still around) did. From that they can better gauge what stories work and what to spring into a bigger individual ip. It's seriously not even that hard to do but North American comics are so fricking chickenshit they'd rather jizz out more bama to the same 5 morons who keep buying it.
Invent time travel to save the comic book industry in the 1950s
east vs west is not a Cinemaphile topic. keep ruining the board though, newhomosexuals.
No one likes manga, they just buy it because it has more of a resell value
NO ONE speculates on manga, you literal homosexual.
>How can the industry improve comic sales?
More of a brick and mortar thing than an industry thing and maybe I'm an outlier but having used goods at used prices and stocking titles that aren't capeshit would go a long way towards fixing things. The last time I went to my local comic store the owner was unaware of the existence of Heavy Metal, 2000 AD and EC comics and the 40% of the shop that was devoted to comics as opposed to 40k, D&D and funko pops was basically nothing but floppies, trades of floppies and endless volumes of TWD. Ten-plus years and about four owners ago ago this same LCS was owned by a cool old guy who got most of his stock in big lots online and from estate sales or what have you and I went there often and eventually dropped hundreds of dollars on his stuff because it was interesting and you never knew what you were gonna get. I picked up about two banker's boxes worth of Heavy Metal, some Rosas duck comics, Tintin and Asterix books, Spawn, old RPG rulebooks, a couple volumes of Sin CIty that I was missing and all kinds of bits and bobs of the sequential art world and adjacency.
There's a well-stocked and successful LCS a ways away from me and while I always stop in when I'm in the area I rarely buy anything because everything they have that isn't a floppy is new and to me not really worth the price.
Proper speculation, as in treating books as investments? Correct, not common and especially not with manga. However, high-quality, small-run editions of translated niche titles from Japan play by the rules as any other sort of high-quality, small-run niche titles and people often have a very good idea of what to expect as far as value is concerned. The Spice and Wolf anniversary collection (2016) was ~$175 when it released and is selling for ~$600+ on ebay and the value of a numbered and signed special editions of the same (I forget the price on release but I want to say ~$300) are listed for ~$15k.
You are beyond full of shit.
>You are beyond full of shit.
What part? If you don't believe me then go look at buygay threads on Cinemaphile, /jp/, /m/ and Cinemaphile. There's always someone b***hing that something that they could have bought for $15 a decade ago is now selling for $80 on ebay or scalpers using bots to gobble up limited runs of things or that some translated doorstop of continental philosophy was $140 when it released and sells for $600 now.
Something I find fascinating is how nobody stopped to think that a constantly reimagined/reused gallery of characters would accumulate reputational baggage over generations. What an odd and counterproductive business practice hoarding IPs is.
So many shills shitting up the thread. That's how you know were at the end.
>superhero slop
Everyone days "oh no one is buying comics anymore," but consider the secondary takeaway that Warhammer paraphernalia and manga are too fricking expensive. Remember that people are by and large broke today and often don't have the spare funding lying around to afford hobbies. Of course they'd want to take advantage of deep sales (e.g. a store closing out) to buy things they couldn't or wouldn't normally.
I just pirate everything.