The time hadn't altered by the time he left 1955, he had only given his younger self the book.
Its was once he returned to 2015 that the history of the timone played out. There's a cutscene of him being erased from History because Lorraine shot him sometime in the 80s.
But wouldn't that imply the events of 1985A had lead to the regular 2015? How could George McFly have flown upside down into the Pizza Hut rehydration dinner scene if he's been dead for 30 years?
Time mechanics don't seem like an instant thing in Back to the Future. Hence Marty and his siblings fading away in the first movie instead of just instantly disappearing once Marty messed things up the first time.
So it just took a while for things to adjust, it took a fair while for Marty to fade away, so imagine how long it would take for things to adjust for the entire world, or at least the town.
>How could he return to his 2015 timeline?
Back to the Future I reveals it takes time for changes in time to fully set it (hence why Marty has that photo of his family slowly disappearing). In Back to the Future II, Biff returns to the future before it has changed, only to be caught up in the changes as they are happening. Doc and Marty also manage to leave before the future entirely changes, and are able to avoid the changes to themselves because they're time travelling.
The only reason Marty 'fades' is because his parents getting together is in danger of not happening.
His siblings already faded at that point. He's in the timeline where his parents don't get together until George punches Biff. Or until the dance happens, but it doesn't really make sense why Marty was still fading then.
What makes no sense is that Marty and his siblings look exactly the same. As if the exact same nuts George Mcfly blasts into Marty’s mom would be the same nut with the same exact sperms wriggling into her egg even though he changed the whole timeline? They should all look completely different with different histories and Marty should have erased from existence.
The Jennifer recast kind of works for this reason. Marty's brain adapts to the changes in history, so when he first sees her upon returning his brain thinks it's seeing the same girl, but then we see the scene play out in the next movie with the way she really looks.
>As soon as young Biff gets the book, the timeline is altered. Old Biff can only return to 2015 in the new timeline.
Not quite. The timeline is still intact when old Biff leaves 1955. Its only after old Biff leaves that Young Biff would later use the book causing a new timeline.
I see. So it's like a running clock in both time periods and Biff hadn't gotten rich yet in 1955 so the future hadn't gone to hell yet either. Sure, why not?
That seems to be what they were going for. Once Old Biff gets back to 2015 he is "erased" as the timeline corrects itself.
Whenever you start thinking too much about timetravel plots they always fall to shit because the whole idea of time travel is paradoxical to begin with.
Not necessarily. Sure, old Biff returned to 60 years in the future, but young Biff didn't start reading the book until later, so the original past wasn't "overwritten" yet
>the moment Marty gets hit by the car instead of George, 1985is altered and Marty should disappear
It's a movie, anon. They wrote their time travel rules with some wiggle room.
Yeah I always had a theory that she secretly actually LIKED Biff, and that he wasn't that bad of guy to begin with. I mean yeah, he was an ass, but he seemed like the type of butthole a girl like that that would've wanted to be with.
Bet you a million dollars that "rape" would've turned into the orgasm of her life and then there would've been another timeline where her and Biff have kids and he's basically Jackie Gleason from The Honeymooners, yelling at Lorraine about how "one of these days!" "Dinner better not be cold today." But again, she likes it.
You give a guy like Biff zero accountability and unlimited money he will become more and more unhinged. In the first one, the difference between douche bag Biff and subdued Biff was George standing up to him.
>How could he return to his 2015 timeline?
Back to the Future I reveals it takes time for changes in time to fully set it (hence why Marty has that photo of his family slowly disappearing). In Back to the Future II, Biff returns to the future before it has changed, only to be caught up in the changes as they are happening. Doc and Marty also manage to leave before the future entirely changes, and are able to avoid the changes to themselves because they're time travelling.
That's not how it works in the other movies though. When Marty returns to 1985 at the end of 1 and 3 the timeline is already changed. The fading in 1 is different because he hasn't left 1965 yet, so the timeline is not yet set in stone. Old Biff should have returned to an entirely different 2015.
Not true. 2015 should have changed around them, so the DeLorean would be wherever Biff brought it when he returned. That could have been a whole subplot of Marty and Doc seeing 2015 change and trying to find/get the DeLorean back.
Exactly, huge plothole that the entire rest of the movie ignores. If they followed their own rules Doc and Marty simply would have been without the DeLorean and had to find/build another one. Similarly, the old Marty on 2015 is not Marty Prime from the original timeline.
>Doc and Marty simply would have been without the DeLorean
Yeah I never understood why old Biff brought back the DeLorean. If anything he could've gone to go get some of that rejuvenation crap that Doc got and then played yesterday's lottery number, today and then dumped the time machine into some pond in Nebraska and lived the rest of his days with a bunch of gold digging 2015 thots.
That doesn't make much sense either because Marty and Doc don't fade out of existence when they change history. Unless it was intended that the changes Biff made resulted in him dieing prior to 2015.
http://bttf.wikidot.com/official-bttf-faq#toc7 >When Doc and Marty are in 1955-A, Doc says they can't return to the future to stop Biff from stealing the DeLorean, because it would be the wrong future. But if that's true, how did Old Biff manage to get back to the same future that he left? Shouldn't he have come back to a different future? >A: As should be clear from the answer to the previous question, we believe Old Biff DID indeed return to a different future — a "2015-A," which would have transformed around Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein (just as Doc explains how 1985-A would change into 1985 and instantly transform around Jennifer and Einstein). This would happen AFTER Old Biff returned with the DeLorean. For this reason, we made sure that Doc had caught Jennifer and exited the McFly Townhouse before Old Biff returned. Thus, by the time Marty and Doc are carrying Jennifer back to the DeLorean, there COULD be other residents in that townhouse — or perhaps the McFlys still live there. It is just as believable that the physicality of the neighborhood did NOT change as it is to believe that it did — so we didn't change it. We decided not to make anything of this idea because this is one of those difficult time travel concepts that general audiences have a real hard time understanding. (Try explaining this stuff to your mother and you'll see what we mean.) A detailed explanation of it would have slowed down the story, and most of the audience doesn't ever think about it. That's why we made certain things ambiguous and left various things open for interpretation in hopes that the possibility of at least one or two explanations would be better than a "definitive" explanation that you could find holes in. Let's face it, time travel is fantasy, so there's no way to "prove" anything. As filmmakers, we try to create a set of rule for our stories and stick by them, and stay consistent within the little "universe" that we've created.
Don't we just see Old Biff returning to Hill Dale and passing out, or something?
I've always interpreted it as him returning to a neighborhood that looks the same, but passing out because he's either being altered or erased himself through his time travel
The time hadn't altered by the time he left 1955, he had only given his younger self the book.
Its was once he returned to 2015 that the history of the timone played out. There's a cutscene of him being erased from History because Lorraine shot him sometime in the 80s.
>cutscene
Deleted Scene i meant. You'll find it on YouTube no doubt.
But wouldn't that imply the events of 1985A had lead to the regular 2015? How could George McFly have flown upside down into the Pizza Hut rehydration dinner scene if he's been dead for 30 years?
Time mechanics don't seem like an instant thing in Back to the Future. Hence Marty and his siblings fading away in the first movie instead of just instantly disappearing once Marty messed things up the first time.
So it just took a while for things to adjust, it took a fair while for Marty to fade away, so imagine how long it would take for things to adjust for the entire world, or at least the town.
The only reason Marty 'fades' is because his parents getting together is in danger of not happening.
His siblings already faded at that point. He's in the timeline where his parents don't get together until George punches Biff. Or until the dance happens, but it doesn't really make sense why Marty was still fading then.
What makes no sense is that Marty and his siblings look exactly the same. As if the exact same nuts George Mcfly blasts into Marty’s mom would be the same nut with the same exact sperms wriggling into her egg even though he changed the whole timeline? They should all look completely different with different histories and Marty should have erased from existence.
The Jennifer recast kind of works for this reason. Marty's brain adapts to the changes in history, so when he first sees her upon returning his brain thinks it's seeing the same girl, but then we see the scene play out in the next movie with the way she really looks.
As soon as young Biff gets the book, the timeline is altered. Old Biff can only return to 2015 in the new timeline. This can't be unexplained.
>As soon as young Biff gets the book, the timeline is altered. Old Biff can only return to 2015 in the new timeline.
Not quite. The timeline is still intact when old Biff leaves 1955. Its only after old Biff leaves that Young Biff would later use the book causing a new timeline.
I see. So it's like a running clock in both time periods and Biff hadn't gotten rich yet in 1955 so the future hadn't gone to hell yet either. Sure, why not?
That seems to be what they were going for. Once Old Biff gets back to 2015 he is "erased" as the timeline corrects itself.
Whenever you start thinking too much about timetravel plots they always fall to shit because the whole idea of time travel is paradoxical to begin with.
Not necessarily. Sure, old Biff returned to 60 years in the future, but young Biff didn't start reading the book until later, so the original past wasn't "overwritten" yet
>the moment Marty gets hit by the car instead of George, 1985is altered and Marty should disappear
It's a movie, anon. They wrote their time travel rules with some wiggle room.
Why did they make him into such a psycho in part 2? I felt that part 1 biff a wasnt so bad.
He tried to rape Lorraine. He was always a psycho.
She parked with boys, drank, and smoked. She was more than asking for it.
She didn't want to have sex with Biff.
Not his problem.
>She parked with boys, drank, and smoked.
Yeah I always had a theory that she secretly actually LIKED Biff, and that he wasn't that bad of guy to begin with. I mean yeah, he was an ass, but he seemed like the type of butthole a girl like that that would've wanted to be with.
Bet you a million dollars that "rape" would've turned into the orgasm of her life and then there would've been another timeline where her and Biff have kids and he's basically Jackie Gleason from The Honeymooners, yelling at Lorraine about how "one of these days!" "Dinner better not be cold today." But again, she likes it.
They needed a villain for the unnecessary sequels.
You give a guy like Biff zero accountability and unlimited money he will become more and more unhinged. In the first one, the difference between douche bag Biff and subdued Biff was George standing up to him.
He didn’t he died behind a dumpster.
The time travel in Back to the Future makes zero sense if you nitpick it because it isn't a real life event. It's a fun little story.
>How could he return to his 2015 timeline?
Back to the Future I reveals it takes time for changes in time to fully set it (hence why Marty has that photo of his family slowly disappearing). In Back to the Future II, Biff returns to the future before it has changed, only to be caught up in the changes as they are happening. Doc and Marty also manage to leave before the future entirely changes, and are able to avoid the changes to themselves because they're time travelling.
That's not how it works in the other movies though. When Marty returns to 1985 at the end of 1 and 3 the timeline is already changed. The fading in 1 is different because he hasn't left 1965 yet, so the timeline is not yet set in stone. Old Biff should have returned to an entirely different 2015.
Not to mention 2015 changing around them instantly as Doc said would happen to Jennifer and Einstein.
>Old Biff should have returned to an entirely different 2015.
True, also there would have been no way for Doc and Marty to recover the DeLorean. It would have been easy for him to build another one though.
Not true. 2015 should have changed around them, so the DeLorean would be wherever Biff brought it when he returned. That could have been a whole subplot of Marty and Doc seeing 2015 change and trying to find/get the DeLorean back.
Because Marty and Doc got the book back already in the past when returned to the future
Exactly, huge plothole that the entire rest of the movie ignores. If they followed their own rules Doc and Marty simply would have been without the DeLorean and had to find/build another one. Similarly, the old Marty on 2015 is not Marty Prime from the original timeline.
>Doc and Marty simply would have been without the DeLorean
Yeah I never understood why old Biff brought back the DeLorean. If anything he could've gone to go get some of that rejuvenation crap that Doc got and then played yesterday's lottery number, today and then dumped the time machine into some pond in Nebraska and lived the rest of his days with a bunch of gold digging 2015 thots.
I watched a deleted scene and the reason is why he's so terrified and in pain back in 2015 is that he vanishes almost immediately after going back.
Well maybe they should have kept that in the movie. Bravo Zemeckis.
That doesn't make much sense either because Marty and Doc don't fade out of existence when they change history. Unless it was intended that the changes Biff made resulted in him dieing prior to 2015.
Question is, if the movie followed it's own logic, is there another DeLorean somewhere in that 2015.
http://bttf.wikidot.com/official-bttf-faq#toc7
>When Doc and Marty are in 1955-A, Doc says they can't return to the future to stop Biff from stealing the DeLorean, because it would be the wrong future. But if that's true, how did Old Biff manage to get back to the same future that he left? Shouldn't he have come back to a different future?
>A: As should be clear from the answer to the previous question, we believe Old Biff DID indeed return to a different future — a "2015-A," which would have transformed around Marty, Doc, Jennifer and Einstein (just as Doc explains how 1985-A would change into 1985 and instantly transform around Jennifer and Einstein). This would happen AFTER Old Biff returned with the DeLorean. For this reason, we made sure that Doc had caught Jennifer and exited the McFly Townhouse before Old Biff returned. Thus, by the time Marty and Doc are carrying Jennifer back to the DeLorean, there COULD be other residents in that townhouse — or perhaps the McFlys still live there. It is just as believable that the physicality of the neighborhood did NOT change as it is to believe that it did — so we didn't change it. We decided not to make anything of this idea because this is one of those difficult time travel concepts that general audiences have a real hard time understanding. (Try explaining this stuff to your mother and you'll see what we mean.) A detailed explanation of it would have slowed down the story, and most of the audience doesn't ever think about it. That's why we made certain things ambiguous and left various things open for interpretation in hopes that the possibility of at least one or two explanations would be better than a "definitive" explanation that you could find holes in. Let's face it, time travel is fantasy, so there's no way to "prove" anything. As filmmakers, we try to create a set of rule for our stories and stick by them, and stay consistent within the little "universe" that we've created.
Don't we just see Old Biff returning to Hill Dale and passing out, or something?
I've always interpreted it as him returning to a neighborhood that looks the same, but passing out because he's either being altered or erased himself through his time travel
There's a deleted scene where he was erased. It was cut because audiences didn't understand it.
>old man writhing in pain with no background music to make it funny
bruh
I think it's understandable enough, and it was cut because it's a real shitty scene.
>an actual film discussion on Cinemaphile
It's just MM.