How did he get away with tanking Star Wars?
 It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
How did he get away with tanking Star Wars?
How did he get away with tanking Star Wars?
It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
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It's All Fucked Shirt $22.14 |
It's honestly extremely based that he single handedly destroyed a decades old franchise.
This. Rian Johnson did nothing wrong.
he didn't destroy it though, the movie was top tier
Rian, you've got to stop coming here and doing this. I know your coping at your failure of a career, but this is not healthy, buddy.
He didn't you cuck it's still there.
I'm going to have to look at Star Wars for the next fifty fricking years of my life and now thanks it has the added bonus of sucking even more than it already did.
Nah, they’re still pumping out garbage. If he was truly based he would’ve crashed it with no survivors.
>single handedly
Boyega deserves a little credit too. Don't forget the choreographers, writers, etc. Pretty much everyone that wasn't the special effects, sound team, or (I assume) catering. A lot of people worked hard to tank it
Kek but he did not
See you in 2025 when you will cry about the first part of his trilogy
He got mogged by Taika KWAB
>taiki
there is a reason why all the upcoming sw movies are made by Rians bros
>Taika
Why titty?
Disney will never allow him near Star Wars again.
did they really greenlight three more Loopers
The worst blow to the sequel trilogy was the Luke cliffhanger in TFA. Either JJ should have ended it with dialogue that allowed a timeskip or ended the movie when Rey entered hyperspace.
The worst blow was easily Rian's character casting and setup. There's nothing you can build from Rey and Finn, let alone with actors as bad as he chose.
anyone who assigns blame is damaging the brand. if you damage the brand, you breach your contract with the studio and forfeit all earnings.
this is basically the reason everything is spiraling into shit right now.
>tanking Star Wars
>by earning it billions
Kek.
TLJ hater are really braindamaged, they mumbled about how Rians career was over, now he is like the richiest hollywood director out there by making aghata christy fanfics
They are like always wrong
Rian is one of the hottest talents in Hollywood - everyone wants to work with him, Knives Out was one of the big hits of 2019, he's personally pocketing $100 million + from the Netflix deal, and will be able to make whatever project he wants after Knives Out 3. He won, and there's nothing incels and brainlet Star Wars fans can do about it.
Yeah, he might not make another Star Wars movie, but considering the dire state of the franchise right now, would he really *want* to? He's going to have Kathleen Kennedy and Fabro and Ravioli breathing down his neck and forcing him to insert Ahsoka Tano and CGI Luke Skywalker cameos so moron fans can basedface when they see the thing they recognize
Yeah it depends on him, I would understand if he would abandon these cumgubbling nostalgiatards
Lmao apple, Amazon and Netflix were fighting against each other to get him on board
Stop talking to yourself Rian.
I really don't understand why the fanboys get so excited by seeing Luke young again. All this "OMG they de-aged Luke, they won me back, it's what I was waiting for" crap just reeks of seals trained to clap at things they recognize. So basically Disney can slap a CGI de-aged Luke in any old shit and the fanboys will be happy? Why?
Their level of engagement with Luke Skywalker is that of a video game character, to the point that a CGI homunculus doing videogame shit is their "ideal" version of the character
You're probably right, but it just leaves me scratching my head.
Star Wars fans are stupid and/or emotionally stunted and their only engagement with the franchise is a desire for positive reinforcement and indulgent fanservice
https://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/
>you can't make positive movies, everyone must suffer because drama is the only way to make kino
>I also despise the person who came up with Star Wars, but hear my takes on how this corporately backed Star Wars product is totes le kino
TLJ fangirls in a nutshell.
Because the central character from the story has been absent for decades and then teased and teased
Anon Disney can snap 90 year old Patrick Stewart's neck on screen and it will make a billion dollars
>muh toy sales
Kek. Star Wars fanboys really never grew up.
Yeah even children don't like it there is reason why chinese had to make certain person smaller in poster.
>even children don't like it
Children aren't the ones who still buy toys in this day and age, brainlet. You are.
The Last Jedi heavily underperformed and destroyed the franchise's reputation.
It only "underperformed" insofar as TFA was lightning in a bottle and the once-in-a-lifetime revival of the Star Wars that people actually liked, and TLJ had competition from other films that year as opposed to TFA which was the only game in town during holiday 2015
>Lightning in a bottle
>Hmm, how do we replicate the original block buster success of the New hope from 1977? Oh I know, let's just unashamedly plagiarise it!!
Lightning in a bottle already happened with the og Star Wars.
TFA was essentially just a bottle with a current trapped inside doing everything in its power to copy the original lightning in a bottle and still managing to be below average.
okay, TFA was still a critical and commercial success and is the 2nd highest grossing Star Wars film even adjusting for inflation
you're not intelligent for noticing there was an xwing and a death star in it
No, you are wrong. TFA already killed the potential for any good sequels. Think about it.
>The film ends with Rey gifting the lightsaber to Luke on a completely empty planet.
>Makes no attempt to explain what the hell Luke has been doing for all these years or why tf he has been in hiding rather than helping Leia or Han.
>Removes all of Han's character development by turning him back to a smuggler and destroys his marriage with Leia to keep him as a lonesome scoundrel who hasn't moved on.
>Rey already defeated Kylo in a head-to-head battle so the big bad is already a jobber prone to tantrums.
>Already made Kylo irredeemable by having him kill Han by luring him into a false sense of security.
I think TLJ is a gigantic POS, but realistically JJ is such a israeli hack fraud that he had essentially trapped Rian.
>The only way to explain why Luke was a NEET on a planet in the outer reaches and hadn't sensed any of what had happened during TFA or made attempts to help Leia because he had cut himself off from the force.
1/2/
Eh, maybe. I find it kind of hard to even care at this point, but sometimes a safe bet pays off more than a risky one.
I'm also not quite sure why people ITT are so angry with Luke being featured in the Mandalorian. Wasn't he the highlight of TLJ? What happened?
Luke in Mando/Book of Boba Fett is a CGI cartoon monstrosity that talks like a robot (because it's literally a text-to-speech program) who displays none of Luke's humanity or warmth.
>who displays none of Luke's humanity or warmth
He's got a lot more warmth than the Luke in TLJ though. It's a portrayal that is closer to the OT.
Yeah I love hearing Microsoft Sam read off a bunch of vague platitudes about POWER COMING FROM TRAINING or whatever and then emotionally abusing a little kid and telling him why he's a bad person for loving his father figure
Much better than the heartfelt reunion he had with Leia before they say goodbye for a final time, or when he playfully winks at C3PO, before dabbing on Kylo hard and proving why he will always be the ultimate Jedi Master, but that wasn't EPIC because he didn't kill lots of people with his lightsaber
Could you BE anymore dishonest? Emotionally abusing? This Luke is still leaps and bounds a better person than the psychopath hermit in TLJ
Because he's a perfect encapsulation of the imagined Luke Skywalker you put on a pedestal as a child, frozen in time, he never will grow old, and neither will you, as long as you can live forever in the world of secondhand, childish banalities that Alec Guinness tried to warn us about
>the movie is good because it shits on hopeful larger than life characters
Ok? But I simply don't see how that's the case. I don't see how that makes it good.
Maybe it's interesting to see for some people? I honestly don't know. Superman but le evil. Alright, awesome? Superman's classical archetype remains that of a boyscout.
2/2
>Kylo was already a shitty villain since he had lost to an untrained Rey and already had no chance to redeem himself after killing his own father.
Rian's fault was not understanding that JJ was trying to set up a timeskip:
that way Finn would have enough time to recover and build up his friendship with Poe, Rey would have had enough time to train and the question of why Luke had hidden himself away could just be waved away like it meant nothing and the resistance could have time to actually grow to be the new republic army.
And Kylo would have been allowed to grow into the villain he was supposed to be, what did you think Snoke meant by
>I must complete his training.
So in conclusion, both JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson should never have been allowed to touch this series with a ten foot pole and RLM is sorely to blame for JJ being given the reigns to this franchise.
>JJ was trying to set up a timeskip:
JJ was setting up NOTHING. That's the whole point of hiring JJ Abrams. He'll just throw shit at the wall and do some nostalgia bait. That's it. MYSTERY BOX!
Well, yeah. The problem with TLJ though is that Rian saw right through JJ's shit and decided not to pick up any of the pieces JJ had set up, which made TFA a terrible movie in hindsight.
As much as I dislike Rian Johnson, by inadvertently exposing one of the most hack, assembly line directors in hollywood today, so much so that even my normie friends think he's awful.
I'm just glad I'll never have to see JJ's face attached to franchises I loved from my childhood.
JJ was always overrated. Totally RLM's fault
>made Kylo irredeemable
I'd contest this. If anything that scene made Kylo's redemption obvious. It's too much of a burden for the audience to believe that Han's love for/faith in his son -- in his last moments -- was misplaced. I don't think the trilogy needed to redeem Kylo necessarily, but it felt obvious to me even in 2015.
It's true that TFA was a lazy rehash for the most part, but it worked ok as a set up for potential sequels. And it was received mostly positively, especially by the modern RLM crowd.
Felt like it suffered from the Avatar syndrome for the most part.
Every normie enjoyed it when it came out but a few months later they couldn't remember a good thing about it.
No that was Rogue One
Rogue One was liked pretty much across the board. Hell, even here people thought it was ok and so did Lucas himself.
Rogue One lost 200 million dollars and cemented NuWars as "jingle some keys for the manchildren"
>grossed a billion and change
>lost $200 million
fricking what
>Star Wars can ONLY be good if you deliberately shit on people's expectations, and especially those of the fanboys
>controversy equals kino in and of itself
Never change Cinemaphile
That's a considerable amount of projection
In bizarro world maybe. I wouldn't go for a subversion gimmick unless I knew exactly what I was doing and did my research on who I should use it with beforehand.
Picking Luke of all people basically communicates that there isn't a single infallible Jedi in the galaxy. They're all inherently weak willed losers. The very concept of the Jedi is fraudulent and has been from the start.
>basically communicates that there isn't a single infallible Jedi in the galaxy.
Yes, imagine that: No one is infallible. Not even your childhood hero. If you think making a character a flawed human being is bad writing, that just shows how much consuming capeshit has softened your brain tissue.
But he was flawed from the start, and overcame a lot to become the person he is by the end of RotJ. That's his whole arc in the OT. Why backtrack?
>capeshit
Star Wars is a fairy tale in space anon. I'm sorry you had other expectations.
>and overcame a lot to become the person he is by the end of RotJ.
You don't "overcome" flaws and then never have to battle them again. That simply is not how human beings work. And you don't "become a (different) person" either.
>Why backtrack?
Because it's not backtracking to keep a character consistent with his established flaws.
Inventing new ones out of nowhere would have actually been out of character, not repeating old mistakes.
>You don't "overcome" flaws and then never have to battle them again.
Says who?
>That simply is not how human beings work.
It's a fantasy movie bud. Larger than life characters. The Force isn't real either.
And no, not everyone in real life gives up at every obstacle either.
>Because it's not backtracking to keep a character consistent with his established flaws.
Flaws that he overcame at the end of his character journey in the previous trilogy.
>Inventing new ones out of nowhere would have actually been out of character
Older Luke couldn't handle a lesser obstacle in the face of Kylo Ren "possibly" becoming evil, than his own fricking father in the OT, when he was a young whimsical farmboy.
It's not consistent.
>It's a fantasy movie bud. Larger than life characters. The Force isn't real either.
It's a fantasy that uses a larger than life setting in order to tell real stories about the human condition. You're supposed to apply the lessons learned in Star Wars to your own life. It's not about crafting an escapist manchild fantasy, the Star Wars universe is not your eternal neverland where you can pretend bad things will never happen in life by seeing that Luke Skywalker conquered all challenges he would ever face at the age of 22
Kek. Alright Mahatma, let me put it this fricking way. Luke isn't Vader and I don't care about rehashes about Vader's story inserted into LUKE's character. Luke is supposed to be everything his father failed to be.
And the actual reasoning for WHY he became a useless bum wasn't even well thought out in the first place. Luke is absolutely a failed Jedi as of TLJ. There is no "warmth and hopefulness". He fricked up worse than his younger self would've, and did the absolute bare minimum to redeem himself as the alleged protagonist (or one of) of the story.
Rey is by all means a better Jedi than Luke, which I guess was probably the idea behind the ST, but it's still kind of dumb to retroactively make it that way for the people who liked the OT.
>Luke is SUPPOSED to be perfect with no flaws! He overcame all potential problems in life at 22 when he redeemed Vader!
see:
>>Luke is SUPPOSED to be perfect with no flaws
Yes and no. Is he supposed to be the best Jedi? Yes. Does that mean he's inherently flawless? No. Was Luke too flawed in TLJ? Absolutely. Was he not particularly intelligent or wise? Absolutely.
And look, I get it, "The Wrestler" starring Luke Skywalker was kino in your mind. I don't think it was consistent with the established Luke from the OT. I think Kenobi would be a thousand times better suited, as an actual deeply flawed Jedi who has to overcome a lot of failures.
>I don't think it was consistent with the established Luke from the OT.
It's funny how you guys complain that he's falling back to his old flaws that he alledgedly "overcame completely", but then turn around and say that he's not consistent with those old character flaws.
No one said he had to overcome everything completely. That's unrealistic (as is star wars in general, but I'll throw you a bone regardless).
Luke in TLJ is downright inferior to his younger self, who is more competent in pretty much every way, not the least of which being wiser.
Did Luke have dementia? Did he get cucked? Did Mara Jade turn out to have a penis? We may never truly know, they didn't tell us in the movie.
>Luke in TLJ is downright inferior to his younger self, who is more competent in pretty much every way, not the least of which being wiser.
Being wiser? Really? Explain.
Anyway, let's assume for the sake of the argument that your moronic assertions are correct: Why can't a character become less comptent at something over the years?
not that anon, but what's the point of pissing on Luke's legacy?
The point was to command the audience to like Rey now. That failed. Hilariously
>pissing on Luke's legacy
TLJ didn't do that. It just pissed on your headcanon and hero worship.
>Says who?
Literally anyone with more than 20 years of life experience who isn't a complete emotionally stilted autist.
>It's a fantasy movie bud.
Imagine thinking that bad character writing is a good thing in "fantasy movies".
>Flaws that he overcame
We've been over this already, brainlet.
>Older Luke couldn't handle a lesser obstacle in the face of Kylo Ren "possibly" becoming evil, than his own fricking father in the OT
Actually, he handled Kylo much better. Had he handled him like he handled Vader, he'd have fallen into a wild rage and actually used that lightsaber against him. Because he did actually strike down on Vader for about 30 seconds with clear killing intent.
>Picking Luke of all people basically communicates that there isn't a single infallible Jedi in the galaxy. They're all inherently weak willed losers. The very concept of the Jedi is fraudulent and has been from the start.
At what point in any of the movies has that ever not been true? The very first Jedi we ever meet is a pussy that ran away from the central conflict of the galaxy for decades, that doesn't have the balls to tell Luke the truth about his father.
>At what point in any of the movies has that ever not been true?
In the OT, which is a story about how Luke managed to become what his father should've been.
The PT on the other hand is the reverse. And both work thematically.
But changing a character's established alignment when it's arguably their most notable trait, just so you can pull a bait and switch, is lame and takes people out of the movie.
Would you be praising TLJ if it was revealed that Palpatine had a change of heart and came back as good guy? Please be honest.
>The very first Jedi we ever meet is a pussy that ran away from the central conflict of the galaxy for decades, that doesn't have the balls to tell Luke the truth about his father.
Oh, so you are legally moronic. I’m so sorry. I won’t crush you anymore
Actually, that was Solo.
Rogue One still made money, as unimaginative and fanservicy as it was as a story. Solo was the only one that struggled to break even.
What's so fanservicy about it? That brief scene at the end?
Why is it that anything which subverts expectations in some way always treated as gospel here? Why can't a single straightforward story be told anymore?
>What's so fanservicy about it?
The whole premise of "muh exhaust port is a plothole that needs to be fixed", which is one of those moronic fan nitpicks by literal fanboy manchildren who don't understand what an exhaust port is and what it's good for.
I never even knew that was any kind of nitpick. So it's reasonable to assume a lot of the audience that enjoyed the film didn't know about that bit of information either.
>So it's reasonable to assume a lot of the audience that enjoyed the film didn't know about that bit of information either.
Sure. And now you're going to argue that the major plotpoint of "the exhaust port only existed because a saboteur inserted it as a breaking point" is great and makes total sense, right?
Is it "great"? I don't know. Does it make sense? Sure. That wasn't my sole focus on the film.
Maybe Leia should've said "it's time for the Jedi to end", at the end, so that it would've qualified as kinematography.
>Does it make sense? Sure.
No, it does not. Look up what a fricking exhaust port is, idiot.
It does not make sense that anyone would insert an exhaust port as a form of sabotage. If anything, not inserting one would have been sabotage.
Actually it does.
No, it does not.
Do you also believe that your roadcar has been sabotaged because it has an exhaust port?
Do you think your workplace might have been constructed by terrorists because it has a ventilation system?
It could have been sabotaged though. That in itself isn't nonsensical. What if it's an exhaust port? Who gives a shit?
>It could have been sabotaged though.
The act of including an exhaust port in a vehicle or a large living space with a giant engine or energy core is NEVER sabotage. It's pure necessity.
>I have exactly zero imagination even though I'm discussing a fricking star wars movie of all things
Pro-tip, lightsabers aren't real either.
>lightsabers aren't real either.
>either
Fricking exhaust ports ARE REAL, you fricking moron.
Anon you misunderstood the shitty writing of Rogue One. The exhaust port is NOT the sabotage. Galen Erso "put in an unnoticeable weakness. Any blow to the reactor will create a chain reaction." Which is equally as moronic. Yes, reactors are reactive. Hitting it with a photon torpedo shouldn't need "sabotage" to be catastrophic.
>it's reasonable to assume a lot of the audience that enjoyed the film didn't know about that bit of information either.
It is reasonable, but Rogue One was genuinely marketed under the guise of "fixing a plothole" (it didn't fix anything and created new problems)
I don't think you know what marketed means. No one gives a shit about some nerdy articles.
Not once in any trailer did I notice marketing regarding a specific plot hole.
I don't think you know how media journalism works
Correct.
Internal projections for The Last Jedi were 1.8 billion dollars. It made $600+ million LESS than internal expectations and sold a lot LESS merch than expected as well. The next two movies bombed as well. The Last Jedi was clearly the turning point
>Internal projections for The Last Jedi were 1.8 billion dollars.
And you know that because ... erm ... you're the Disney CEO, right? You know all of Disneys internals!
I know because doomwiener said so
The Last Jedi was pretty good. The third one collapsed completely. JJ can't do endings for shit.
It was impossible to end the franchise in an interesting way with how TLJ ended. It left nothing to do except have Rey defeat Kylo for the third fricking time and have the nu rebels gather a bunch of allies offscreen.
>for ruining Star Wars
You're not even trying at this point.
Tab back doomwiener, Kennedy is still in charge and Rian is making his trilogy btw TLJ is the best SW movie since Empire
I’m with u sis!
It's the only interesting movie in the new trilogy.
I'll bite. Explain how it was good and why it should be appreciated.
It BTFO consoomerists and morons who don't connect with Star Wars spiritually or intellectually, they just use it as brainless escapist fantasy so they can pretend they're the biggest toughest kid on the playground
>who don't connect with Star Wars spiritually or intellectually
I mean, what do you expect from people who grew up on midichlorians?
NOOOOOOOO LUKE OWNS THE MOST MILIDIONCHINOS SO HE IS L-LITERALLY IMMORTAL
RIAN YOU RUINED MY HE-EADCA uhm STAR WARS !!!
How does it do that? It's a very shallow deconstruction of the Star Wars form. Doing the opposite of what is expected isnt a valid form of criticism.
It's like if I made a Harry Potter movie but HOLY HECKIN SHIT THIS TIME NO ONE CAN USE MAGIC!?!?!
Idiot fanboys think that the movie is just "what if you expected something to happen...BUT THEN OPPOSITE WHOAH" because star wars fans are intellectually incurious and emotionally stunted that when something happened in a Star Wars movie that upset them or challenged them, they completely checked out and just started throwing autistic fits instead
every "subversion" in TLJ has a specific function in the film, whether it to be to force the characters to grow, establish a thematic point, or move the plot along. You just think it's LE WRITING BAD xDDD because it hurts your feefees that Luke Skywalker was sad because he was your epic childhood hero. You engage with the character as an action figure, so you expected post-RotJ Luke to be a messianic paragon of martial power and eternal wisdom, when you instead got a human being who is heroic despite his flaws you sperged out
>so you expected post-RotJ Luke to be a messianic paragon of martial power and eternal wisdom
You mean how he was portrayed in all of the expanded universe material prior to Disney? You mean keeping with Luke's primary character trait, the fact that he is resolute in his belief that people have good in them, which is how he redeemed his father?
You mean like that you fricking moron?
Ah yes Luke never wavered ever and never made a mistake ever
>b-b-but he resisted temptation once so that means he conquered temptation as a human concept and would never think about doing bad things ever again!
and the EU is garbage escapism is for nerds who, again, can't engage with Star Wars intellectually or spirtually and just like powerlevel wanking shit, and their ideal Luke Skywalker is le epically badass Space Warrior who can blow up galaxies by farting
this post was made by someone in the 70-80 IQ range
Just give up bro you lost, got slaughtered by the TLJ Chad
nice samegayging
Take your pills lmao Cinemaphile actually likes kino and TLJ is kino youtubelet
What made TLJ kino exactly?
It makes people seethe and some other people are into that.
rian makes pretty visuals so people would've called it kino with any kind of plot twist really
Why do nobody's always think they're big shots. You're nothing your opinion doesn't matter so you're making fool of yourself.
>nobody's
nobodies
> so you're making fool of yourself
making A fool of yourself
The ESL spamming continues.
>Tries to deny samegayging.
>Doesn't even post a screen shot
Never change TLJ troony.
>posts screenshot
>its photoshop
lurk more tasteless manchild
>expanded universe
Let me focus on this cringe passage
>how he was portrayed in all of the expanded universe material prior to Disney
Yes. The same "expanded universe" that came up with "somehow Palpatine returned" by means of "cloning, secrets only the Sith knew". Funny how all these great EU ideas came together to "save the franchise" after TLJ, right?
The story that Rian left made it impossible to keep moving forward with Kylo as the main villain because he had to get redeemed so they thought to might as well bring back Sheev since even prequel haters liked him there.
But somehow they made him boring.
>because he had to get redeemed
Kek. This is the kind of tunnel vision Star Wars fanboys have. WHY do you think he had to be redeemed, genius?
>so they thought to might as well bring back Sheev
And somehow you missed the whole point of the post: The idea of bringing him back is not something that Abrams came up with out of nowhere. He literally copied it from some of the worst pieces of your beloved EU.
This assumption that anyone who criticizes TLJ is an EU fanboy is pretty silly. But what's even siller is that TLJ HAS been done in the EU before.
I genuinely suspect Rian was very, very heavily influenced by the EU.
>This assumption that anyone who criticizes TLJ is an EU fanboy
You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension. The post was literally a reply to someone praising the EU, and quoted that praise.
Why are all TLJ haters illiterate?
That specific post isn't praising the EU, and seeing as there is more than one poster ITT, nothing signifies you were replying to the same person from the post that came before it.
>That specific post isn't praising the EU
It literally is. It's treating the EU as gospel for how Luke should be written. And now shut up, illiterate moron. You're not worth arguing with.
That's a massive stretch and you know it. Literally EU derangement syndrome, inserting EU shit into people's.. assumptions? Lmao
TLJ has been done in the EU btw. With 10 added layers of complexity to boot. It's called Kotor 2.
Learn to read.
Last reply to you, imbecile.
Very, very dishonest reply.
There is only one “guy” here who posts all the pro-TLJ, pro-Corporate Star Wars stuff. He’s in every thread arguing with everyone.
I'm glad I make you angry
but I'm not "pro-corporate", I have no investment in Disney's fiscal success and I hate more Disney star wars than I like at this point. I like TFA and TLJ and a few individual episodes of Mando, I hate Rogue One, never saw Basedlo, hate Rise of Skywalker, hate Boobs of Booba Fatt and Kenobi.
>likes TFA
Opinion discarded
Same. Granted, I formed these opinions after RLM told me what to think, but I am a kinosseur nevertheless.
RLM backpedaled on TFA after the realized their patreon donors demanded that they hate it, they hated TLJ from the jump, and they love Kenobi for whatever reason
He’s on the panel
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/parenting/2019/08/15/disney-seeks-members-2020-moms-panel-dads-can-apply-too/2020376001/
Take your pills TLJ is a good movie back to yt, homosexual
TLJ is trash. You fell for it because you are inferior
Luke's primary character trait throughout the original trilogy was that he was a whiny frickup that had far more faith in the ability of forces beyond himself to fix or break things than in his own abilities. TLJ is far closer to his proper characterization than any of the EU bullshit.
I’m only here to read these TLJ-Chad posts
Good post.
>because star wars fans are intellectually incurious and emotionally stunted that when something happened in a Star Wars movie that upset them or challenged them, they completely checked out and just started throwing autistic fits instead
>wake up to find human shit on the door handle of my car with rian johnson standing next to it
>wtf dude did you shit on my car's door handle?
>What, are you afraid of being INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED?!
People don't criticize TLJ for its merits (or lack thereof) as a piece of cinema, it's entirely autistic in-universe lore nitpicking and hurt feefees over the OT heroes suffering adversity in middle age
You do realize movies are supposed to have a story right? Disregarding anything but episode 7, tlj failed as a sequel
Though I guess you can just throw shit at a wall and idiots like you will defend it for free 🙂
>a bloo bloo Han and Leia got divorced? WRITING BAD
>a bloo bloo the Republic fell and the galaxy expeienced democratic backsliding? WRITING BAD
>Luke didn't become le epic Grandmaster of Le New Jedi Order xD and blow up star destroyers by shooting black holes out of his butthole? WRITING BAD
This isn't real film criticism, this is autistic fanboy hurt feelings
And those are all caused by JJ not Rian
Now reverse everything you just said. How would that be bad writing?
I'm not saying that it is, but you aren't entitled to the story you made up in your head when you were five years old and you don't get to say the films are bad simply because they didn't match your headcanon
and I unironically think TFA and TLJ are a better post-RotJ setting that whatever EU autism you would have preferred lmao
>I'm not saying that it is
Then what's the problem with keeping continuity?
Right. Well that's really mature. I guess Wings of Desire is suddenly a trash film because it didn't make enough people seethe.
>keeping continuity
That's the thing, you're insisting that your headcanon and/or juvenile reading of what the ending of RotJ represented is the literal canon then sperging out when the movies deviated
What did the ending of RotJ represent?
Luke saved his father's soul and the Rebellion won a major victory of the Empire.
anything that presents the ending of RotJ as a permanent, final victory of good over evil are special edition/prequel retcons, therefore not worth taking seriously
Everything is still a retcon that someone else decided upon. It's "canon", I guess. If you care about that, which apparently you do.
Which in itself makes it ironic that you would call other people fanboys.
>dude it was shot well on a technical level and that means the plot was also good
TLJ is shorthand for The Assassination of Luke Skywalker by the coward Rian Johnson
Defend the pacing, story, plot, abandoned hooks, or character arcs. Pick any you want and tell me why it's good
>Prequeltroony has a scat fetish
Many such cases and nobody cares about how you love to think about shit all day
Even if I accept your rationale that these were all great choices for the purposes of this film it’s still dumb to have that much core character development take place off screen. But to be fair that’s more JJ’s fault than Rian. TLJ is just the movie that made it clear Lucasfilm had not properly thought out a cohesive plan and the storytelling was never going to make sense. The poor decisions made by JJ and co were made apparent because there was no sensical way to build on a fictional universe where I-VI exist but so does TFA without spending the majority of the movie being mostly exposition, flashbacks and retcons.
based as frick
you can stop samegayging
I’m honestly convinced it’s Rian in these threads, considering how much of a thinskinned, egotistical soilent he is.
ok bub
>I like trash because it annoys people I don't know and shouldn't care about
Not even a Star Wars fanboy could ever be this pathetic
What are you talking about? The plot is fricking moronic. The film is fricking stupid mate.
>The plot is fricking moronic.
By your standards maybe, Mauler. Too bad you're not a critic, no matter how hard you pretend that you are.
Dude it’s a 5 years old movie just look at old thread and filter the Youtube homosexuals
he fricked up so bigly that Disney is forced to defend him because if they don't they have to admit they fumbled one of the biggest franchises in human history
>bigly
Go back to
or reddit.
>YOUR Snoke Theory Sucks
The audacity of posting something like this when THEY didn't even know what they were going to do with Snoke
Rian understood that Snoke was a nothingburger of a character, so he had him killed off in order to facilitate the development of the actually compelling villain, Kylo Ren, who destroys the old order of Star Wars villains, overthrowing the evil warlock in the space throne so he can forge his own destiny
uhhhh but NO he was supposed to be DARTHY ICKY i speculated about it on reddit!!! WRITING BAD
>so he can forge his own destiny
He just flailed around after those subversive twists though. He had a disjointed arc, accomplished nothing, and the main villain role was given to Sheev "Fortnite" Palpatine
>He had a disjointed arc, accomplished nothing, and the main villain role was given to Sheev "Fortnite"
That was JJ Abrams, not Rian Johnson.
Johnson ended his film with Kylo Ren as the main villain with a newfound resolution, and with Luke going out to inspire new legends, a new spirit of rebellion in the galaxy.
>TLJhater reduced to wojackposting
As expected.
TLJ will never be good and neither will the prequels
Nah both are good
holy mother of manchild delusions, you homosexuals are something else
SW is mainly made for children yes
too bad kids hated the movie then
>gorgeous
he's referring specifically to dexter jettster and his '50s diner in space
Because the movie was a mandated piece they refuse to accept failed, and they can’t destroy Jonson without admitting they failed.
>But HOW the frick did he pocket $100M for ruining Star Wars and got away with it?
>and got away with it?
It's GET away with it you braindead dipshit. What is it with ESL morons constantly spamming TLJ hate?
>What is it with ESL morons constantly spamming TLJ hate?
yeah I've noticed this too
>It's GET away with it
No, it isn't you literal fricking ape. He GOT away with it. In the past. Past, present, future - ever heard of these? Don't you ever "correct" anyone ever again you sub 30 IQ smoothbrain. have a nice day right fricking now.
he's right though, it's get away with it if you want to use it in that particular sentence
makes no sense to use it that way
would you say "how did he get away with it", or "how did he got away with it"
think about practical application and say it in your head
You changed it, moron.
>and get away with it?
Sure bro, totally not moronic ESL speak.
He's not correct. And it's absolutely false to use it in that context.
Actually he's right, it should be "get away with it" in the context of that question.
>frick up
>get corrected
>die on the hill of your frick up
lol, moron.
Keep samegayging, it's not obvious at all.
I'm the guy who originally pointed out your mistake and called you a braindead dipshit, because that's what you are. I'm not these posters though
And I would just like to thank them for backing me up and being able to speak English correctly.
>"how did he got away with it"
>This is correct because got stands for Game of Thrones and that series is in the past!
Preqeul fanboy logic at work!
When a verb is paired with the auxiliary do, you don't conjugate it. "Get away" is right and "got away" is wrong.
I honestly gained respect for him once I learned he liked the prequels
The Last Jedi is the only sequel movie that acknowledges the prequels and tries to reconcile them with the OT.
It certainly had the most potential of the 3 movies but that just makes it more disappointing considering how bad the writing was.
He got to blame JJ and JJ got to blame him
There's plenty of blame to go around. Not the least of which lies with Kathleen Kennedy and the other execs who decided to move forward on a new trilogy in their $4-10 billion franchise without even so much as an outline in place.
They thought they'd be able to make up shit as they went along like Jorge did with the OT.
Why would you hire the guy who directed The Fly episode to do a Star Wars movie?
>Why would you hire the guy who directed The Fly episode to do a Star Wars movie?
Because someone who can direct one of the few outstanding Breaking Bad episodes, one of the few that people actually remember, and the only one that effortlessly summarizes the whole character arc of the main character poignantly in less than an hour, obviously has enough artistic merit and artistic integrity to make a franchise film that actually tells a meaningful story instead of just repeating old tropes. And it paid off: TLJ is the only Star Wars film that people actually still discuss.
>it's discussed and therefore it's good
Boy do I have news for you
He also somehow even managed to make a more baffling plot pausing subplot than the podracing.
Based. The hate for the Fly episode is baffling, hut I guess I should expect it given the intelligence of Breaking Bad fans.
>filtered by Fly
yeah it was EPIC when Mr. White SCIENCED the SHIT out of that car and killed all the Nazis with his machine gun xDDD
An established hero experiencing personal failure later in life is perfectly fine and can be very interesting.
An established hero turning into a snivelling coward is jarring and has to be handled very carefully to not just destroy all suspension of disbelief.
This movie failed at that.
It was something that could have worked with a proper resolution, the real problem for me was killing off Luke while he was in the middle of getting his groove back just so he wouldn't overshadow Rey and Leia in the finale.
The last Jedi was the only halfway good one of the trilogy. If you trimmed out that whole casino section it would actually be fine. Not good, just fine.
Force awakens was literally just REMEMBER STAR WARS?!
Rise of Skywalker was REMEMBER THE DEATH STAR?! REMEMBER THE EMPEROR?!
>tank
Nah, he was the last hope the franchise had to actually become something interesting. Either that or somehow convincing Chris Avellone to direct the movie.
>Either that or somehow convincing Chris Avellone to direct the movie
now that would've been kino
One thing I can agree with Riangays on is that JJ picked up the torch in the worst way, and TroS was inferior to TLJ in that it spends half the runtime retconning shit. They should've went with the Trevorrow script.
trying to "apologize" for the last movie almost always ends up creating an inferior product. I don't like Batman v Superman, but Josstice League is a fricking abomination that is absolutely worse than the 2 hr 50 min version of the Snyder cut they would have released in theaters had he not been fired
Duel of the Fates needed a rewrite and would have run into the same issues with Carrie's passing as Rise of Skywalker did, but it actually *tries* to be a proper sequel to TLJ and come up with some kind of final solution to ensure long-lasting peace in the galaxy instead of JJ just punting the ball and thinking everything is hunky dory because they killed Sheev again and destroyed 1,000 deathstars
At least I have fond memories of the entire theater laughing their asses off when Rey and Kylo start making out.
Trevorrow is a gigantic hack. Disney though he actually was capable after the success of Jurassic World and with Spielberg electing him as his protegé, only to out himself with Book of Henry and ruin his career for good.
Don't forget Disney also tried to give Josh Trank a movie. And now Taika Waititi has one. Whoever's in charge of choosing directors at Star Wars needs to be fired.
The problem with Kennedy's management style is that Disney wants an MCU-esque franchise out of Star Wars, but Kennedy is an old-timer producer who's used to working with a filmmaker-first approach, when the entire reason for Feige's success is that directors have no power and they exist solely to make the product that Feige has already laid out for them.
Kennedy hires directors who try to apply their own style or vison on Star Wars, and when that doesn't gel with the overall corporate vision to set up the next line of spinoff films/TV series that causes them to get fired, sometimes in the MIDDLE OF PRODUCTION, so films get announced that never go anywhere or they have to scramble to reshoot the entire movie. Feige's real talent is finding out early which directors will play ball and which ones won't, and then firing the ones that refuse to tow the line early on so the overall assembly line is never affected. Feige's production style leads to a dearth of creativity in blockbuster cinema, but it makes a lot of money for Disney's shareholders.
Star Wars was never about promising you a false reality where nothing bad will ever happen to you in life, it's about persevering in spite of adversity.
Hell, the entire reason Anakin fell to the darkside is because he was an emotionally stunted manchild who couldn't deal with bad things happening to him in life.
>it's about persevering in spite of adversity
Yeah, Luke did that in the OT already. And then did a much poorer job basically doing the exact same thing in TLJ.
The irony of the whole thing is that, it IS a rehash. You remember this loser kid who eventually improved with age? Well he's a loser again, but guess what, he'll improve again because of some random stranger he met that convinced him to, even though he doesn't give two shits about Han and Leia, his friends/family.
Yeah thank god life is just an upwards trajectory of improvement, you get all of the adversity in your life out of the way in your 20s before you become the ideal, perfect version of yourself in your 30s and then you never suffer hardship ever again
For a Jedi, it ought to be, yes. Or at least Luke who was being billed as the ultimate light at the end of the tunnel. Of course, the ST was about new heroes, so Rey became that. Awesome. But it's ultimately an unnecessary retcon of one character being replaced by virtually the same archetype.
>For a Jedi, it ought to be, yes
Why? Didn't the prequels show that the Jedi are fricking moronic? Even in the OT Yoda and Obiwan are malicious liars who mislead Luke the entire time to turn him into their perfect assassin who will murder Vader without question.
Have you even seen star wars Black person? Or do you just remember how it made you feel warm and fuzzy when you were a toddler?
>Didn't the prequels show that the Jedi are fricking moronic?
So they should just all be morons indefinitely? And no, they weren't moronic. They were flawed, but what happened to Anakin was ultimately his doing too. If you weren't an autist you'd understand.
> Even in the OT Yoda and Obiwan are malicious liars who mislead Luke the entire time to turn him into their perfect assassin who will murder Vader without question
Oh, never mind. TLJ fanboys don't even understand Star Wars.
>So they should just all be morons indefinitely?
No, but the idea that people eventually just stop developing when they become the "perfect" version of themselves is manchild behavior. No one is infallible, and the old generation can learn from the new, Rey helps Luke become himself again just like Luke proved that Yoda and Ben were wrong when they gave up on Vader.
>Oh, never mind. TLJ fanboys don't even understand Star Wars.
I understand it better than you, capeshitter
It's accurate. They flat out didn't tell him that Anakin was Vader because they knew it would complicate things, and they both command Luke that he must kill Vader.
>just like Luke proved that Yoda and Ben were wrong when they gave up on Vader
And that's the issue. It was Luke who convinced them and proved them wrong. That's the fricking issue here.
>I understand it better than you
You fundamentally disagree with Lucas' original idea of wanting to create a hopeful movie for young people with characters who they could look up to.
You "understand" Star Wars, yet have a hateboner for the person who created it.
>You fundamentally disagree with Lucas' original idea of wanting to create a hopeful movie for young people with characters who they could look up to.
And your idea of a "hopeful" movie is a dishonest one that coddles its audience
There's nothing dishonest about the OT. The ST was a retread of passed sins that had been overcome, instead of doing something truly new and different.
It should NOT have featured the Skywalkers whatsoever, and especially not in the way they were. And Luke's arc was inconsistent with the growth he went through as a person.
I demand Rian include a scene where it's revealed that Luke was a spice addict. That would fix some of the issues.
>instead of doing something truly new and different.
Are you saying that you'd have preferred Luke to have either
A) completely new out-of-character flaws to overcome
or B) be a completely static character who's only there for fanservice and contributes nothing?
Sure. To be honest, I wouldn't feature the OT characters at all if it were up to me, but that would've been interesting. Dunno why the "out of character" part is necessary though. He could've faced challenges greater than the ones he did before, and faced them adequately, as in, keeping with the growth he had from the OT.
>be a completely static character who's only there for fanservice and contributes nothing?
Oh, like Mando? Lol. But truth be told, he isn't static in that either. You're just mad that he's consistent with the same Luke he was only a few years prior to the show's continuity.
And again, "fan service" isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Overreliance on fan service is, i.e. RotS. Granted, that film had other flaws in addition to that. Shitting on fans does not a good movie make. I know the Alan Moore quote you'll post next, about the artist's relationship with the audience.
Fact of the matter is, the success of the OT could've been replicated across the board, like the OT itself did. But the ST failed to do so. And TLJ did not rekindle Star Wars' reception.
>RotS
Meant to say TroS.
It's true for RotS too.
>He could've faced challenges greater than the ones he did before, and faced them adequately
That's what happened. Facing and overcoming personal failure (based on the same old weaknesses) is a bigger challenge than facing an outside menace. Of course, you'd need to understand character writing to get why that is.
>he isn't static in that either
Ah, yes, slaughtering robots and repeating Episode 1 Jedi dogma sure is great character development!
>That's what happened
Well yes but actually no. The prospect of your nephew flirting with the dark side isn't a challenge that was greater than the one that had to be faced in the OT. Luke's way of handling the situation was of someone who had no experience being a Jedi at all. And his reaction to said ordeal (fricking off and being a hermit for 30 years) wasn't an adequate way to go about it either.
>Of course, you'd need to understand character writing to get why that is.
Of course, and Rian didn't do that. He had a vague understanding that there was this guy called Luke Starkiller or whatever, who happened to be a Jedi. And he thought, I'll try turning this good character into a morally grey one, that ougtha be compelling and original. And then when people rejected it, Rian realized Luke wasn't your average Joe Schmoe Jedi.
>Ah, yes, slaughtering robots and repeating Episode 1 Jedi dogma sure is great character development!
Anon, he IS a Jedi. Mando is set a few years after RotJ. What the frick were you expecting? And why do you hate heroic characters so much?
>The prospect of your nephew flirting with the dark side
Did you pay literally no attention? Luke's monologue in the third (and only actual) flashback spells it out for you.
>isn't a challenge that was greater
The much greater challenge is what came after. You know, during the actual plotline of the film, not in the flashback that you obsess over withourt understanding it.
>He had a vague understanding that there was this guy called Luke Starkiller or whatever, who happened to be a Jedi.
He actually understood Luke's cahracter arc in the OT much better than you did. Proof for that is that he used the exact same character traits to get to a new conflict, while you think that those character traits are out-of-character.
>he IS a Jedi.
>What the frick were you expecting?
How much of a deluded prequelgay do you have to be to think that the trademark of a jedi is going around slaughtering robots and being overly dogmatic?
What about Obi Wan in episode 4? Or Yoda in episode 5? Aren't they Jedi? Well, I guess they can't be, because they were much more like the TLJ Luke you hate so much rather than the Madalorian CGI abomination that you love.
>What about Obi Wan in episode 4?
You mean the Obi-Wan who took part in the clone wars?
>You mean the Obi-Wan who took part in the clone wars?
Yes. He doesn't go around slaughtering shit, does he?
I have no problem with these choices being made on their own, my issue is they happened mostly off screen. In fact I appreciated Book of Boba Fett for showing what changed him as a character through multiple episodes. If we lived those moments with Luke (not just a short flashback) where he made the choices he did I would respect the sequels a lot more.
We were never going to see every detail of the 35 years that took place in-between trilogies. I think TLJ gives enough breadcrumbs for you to infer what happened; Luke watched the prequels, saw history repeating, almost did a bad thing to prevent another Vader from being created, and in doing so ended up creating him. That caused him to think the Jedi as a whole just needed to go because they have a history of creating their own villains
Here’s the thing. If someone tried to hurt me because they read in my diary that I might do a bad thing, but then they ultimately thought the wiser of it and pulled back - that wouldn’t turn me or ANYONE else for that matter in Adolf Hitler. It’s an insanely weak reason for an ostensibly good person like Ben Solo to become an evil serial killing bloodthirsty dictator. Most people in the galaxy (INCLUDING LUKE HIMSELF) went through FAR worse and didn’t become Chairman Mao.
It’s not compelling, it’s entirely superficial and hollow
>ostensibly good person like Ben Solo
He was actively planning the downfall of Luke's temple with Snoke and then immediately walked out of that room and slaughtered the rest of the students after his confrontation with Luke
>Was he not particularly intelligent or wise? Absolutely.
Says you. His speech on the cliffside was a cathartic refutation of midichlorian powerlevel shit and his miracle at the end of the film was ultimate culmination of everything Yoda ever taught him, and echoed his decision at the end of RotJ on a larger scale.
This is the dumbest thing that I’ve ever read.
not an argument, manbaby
This is embarrassing. Does your Mom know you’re using her dial-up connection for America Online?
Try actually engaging his arguments. Maybe you'll learn something for once.
Nah, if you’re going to have main characters regress to the extent Han and Luke did we need to see those events on screen. Kylo’s turn to the dark side needed to be one of the major events included in the sequel films if it’s going to affect everyone so strongly. Given how many plot threads were abandoned or retconned they could’ve easily spent a large portion of TFA doing just that.
does Darth Vader not function as a character without the prequels? Because George never actually intended to make those movies until the mid-90s.
>Because George never actually intended to make those movies until the mid-90s.
?t=255
>Kylo’s turn to the dark side needed to be one of the major events included in the sequel films if it’s going to affect everyone so strongly
I don't think Kylo himself needed that much explaining. We know more about his problems and motivations by the end of TFA than we ever knew about Vader's turn over the course of the OT. The real problem is everything else. TLJ tries to explain Luke's role but it doesn't do a very good job. Its excuse for Luke's complacency feels awkwardly self-aware and pretty unconvincing to me, and Snoke might as well be The Plot itself. The story just takes him as a given.
>Rey helps Luke
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahagabahahahahajahaha…..no.
>Ahsoka so high
Star Wars babies truly deserve the rope
>They flat out didn't tell him that Anakin was Vader because they knew it would complicate things,
Yes. He wasn't ready. They knew they would've needed to tell him eventually.
>and they both command Luke that he must kill Vader.
Understandably. That was the reasonable position given what they knew. They were wrong, but even Luke was notably surprised by how things turned out. It didn't go how Luke expected it to, either.
>They knew they would've needed to tell him eventually.
Yoda fricking dodges the question even on his deathbed, Luke has to force it out of him, and when confronted Obiwan tries to say that he never lied to Luke because certain point of view, etc. Watch Return of the Jedi sometime, Black person.
"Not ready for the burden were you." It's not like Yoda needed that much prodding, and at this point Luke already knew. Obi-Wan though was poorly handled in general. RotJ is a sloppy movie.
>they both command Luke that he must kill Vader
They say he must face Vader to complete his training. That Luke interprets this as a kill order is part of why he isn't yet a Jedi.
>I can't kill my own father
>...then the Emperor has already won.
Why do the people who claim to have the objective, perfect understanding of Star Wars clearly haven't actually watched the movies?
>taking the zen master's koans literally
There a no zen koan in Star Wars. Maybe you should look up what those are.
Assassination is not the Jedi way, and patricide probably isn't either, but Luke must do both to become a Jedi?
It's paradoxical, but Luke figured it out in the end.
>Assassination is not the Jedi way, and patricide probably isn't either
Says who? Have you even watched the prequels? "The Jedi way", at least as practiced by Yoda and Obi-Wan, isn't this ultimately pacifist stance towards everything.
That's a pretty disingenuous reading of Yoda and Obi-Wan.
I agree with you, which is why Kennedy's management style has been a disaster as a whole for star wars.
Star Wars isn't the MCU. it was the vision of George Lucas and his personal friends who were the next new and exciting generation of screen directors like: Ron Howard and Steven Spielberg.
Kennedy obviously tried replicating this same success with NU-Wars: giving new up and coming directors their shot of making their own version of Star Wars. What she failed to realise was that these directors had none of the talent that George, Spielberg and Howard did, and they weren't friends either, which is why the sequels don't gel well at all and are mediocre films by themselves.
>hese directors had none of the talent that George, Spielberg and Howard did
Holy kek. Imagine pretending that Lucas of all people was a good director.
>LOOK AT ME MOMMY. I SAY COOL Cinemaphile SLURS LIKE "HOLY KEK" AND THEN GIVE MY REDDIT CONTRARIAN TAKE WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING TO ELABORATE LIKE ALL THE OTHER COOL KIDS ON Cinemaphile! AM I COOL YET?
Lucas was never a good director, child.
And stop calling others redditors when you yourself use reddit buzzwords like "contrarian".
Lucas is an amazing director.
>Direct 6 films>
>All fricking amazing
Bow wienersucker.
>All fricking amazing
Prequelgay detected.
Rian likes them too anon, it's ok.
Liking something and thinking it's a directorial masterpiece are two different pairs of shoes, anon.
That's what you prequelgays don't understand: You do not need to pretend that the prequels are good films to enjoy them. Casual audiences got that. It's just you fanboys who did not.
If that were true she wouldn't have fricked up Han Solobso bad. she is a micromanager alongside her little story writers clique
I can fix TLJ and turn it into kino. What you do is, you take Luke and replace him with someone else, whose character arc fits the one Rian wanted to use.
Also, cut the entire Finn and Poe subplots.
I dreamt that he is making 9 more star wars movies and the protagonist was going to be a lesbian
Rian hates LGBT and refuses to use pronouns.
Stop spoiling Episode X
>Lmao apple, Amazon and Netflix were fighting against each other to get him on board
Sure they were Rian. Oh yeah and your super duper trilogy is still in the works lmao.
>TLJ hater being too stupid to quote a post properly
Why am I not surprised?
Good thing that anon made a simple fricking typographical error, lest you be forced to form a proper rebuttal.
If he wasn't such a gay I'd say he's the most based man in Hollywood for destroying Star Wars.
The entire sequel trilogy sucks. Get over it, grow up, move on.
He's lettuce on a shit sandwich. nobody gives a frick about what's on the sandwich, because the entire thing is shit
He didn't. At least not alone. I find the writing of TLJ uniquely grating, but Abrams did far more to sink the sequel trilogy with TFA alone than Johnson did.
The reality of course is that sequels were a terrible idea.
This as, this anon already explained.
JJ already killed the potential for good sequels with his New Hope rip-off.
I just miss comfy, relentlessly hopeful Luke.
Luke being mindfricked into almost killing his nephew with a light saber is forgivable I guess if you find value in subverting hero's, I don't but whatever. What isn't is having the main villain, kylo, have 0 backstory or motivation by the end of the 2nd film in a trilogy. He at least had being snokes b***h to hide behind for a while so it wasn't so noticeable but Rian ended that and replaced it with nothing. Why is he so obsessed with controlling the galaxy? With Rey. With corrupting this sand girl he met a day ago. Who the frick are the knights of ren. What is this martial order. Why is he obsessed with Vader, a man who rejected the dark side. Why does he need the dar ok side, everything he does could be done with the light side. Vader had dialogue with other characters, exhibited tactics, put in place plans. Had a clear goal outside the emperor's plan.
There's actually a lot about Luke's characterization that I enjoy in TLJ. I like the sarcastic edge. It's also by far Hamill's best performance. My problem is that so much of the story hinges on Rey, and Luke's relationship with Rey is woefully underdeveloped. "We are what they grow beyond" is a nice line, but Rey has so little to do with Luke that the actual context shreds it to nothing. It turns what should've been a satisfying return of Yoda into hollow platitudes and fanservice. Rey is a void that everything revolves around; TLJ doesn't put in the work.
A positive is that he made Star Wars manchildren and conservative grifters seethe beyond belief for years on end which is hyper based
The negative is that his movie was also shit and conservative grifters are still larping onto Star Wars
Who can tell if Rian is savior or destroyer. At least he ain't as bad as Dave Filoni
>it's good because it made X people I dislike angry
Remember the good old days when good movies were universally acclaimed? Why not go back to that, instead of essentially using films as tools for some imaginary manchild war you have in your head?
That fictional nostalgic time never happened. You just didn't use the internet. TPM made Star Wars manchildren crap their pants because they couldn't handle silly shit and politics in their kids movies. The manbaby audience who loses their shit has been a thing since the dawn of Star Wars at least with Ewoks back then being a boogeyman for the worst thing since their doodoo in their pants this morning. TLJ is garbage but I respect it for shitting in the face of fans. They deserve nothing less. Best cast scenario Star Wars dies forever but manchildren have latched onto Baby Yoda toys and CG Luke and his AI robot voice like the morons they are.
It did happen with the OT.
>TLJ is garbage but I respect it for shitting in the face of fans
I don't. That's an immature mindset. Moreover, most TLJ fans ITT absolutely despite Lucas so it's not like something monumentally changes.
As for Baby Yoda and CGI Luke, that's better and more competent storytelling than TLJ. (I'm a sucker for plot twists and grey morality btw)
>CG Luke
>Competent
Found the underage Star Wars manbaby who screams and poops their pants like a toddler when he sees a Marvel entrance with a green lightsaber instead of a character
Despite your shallow attempts to shame people for enjoying things, the truth is that you're angry yourself that your auteur didn't receive the same treatment.
This IS a reaction you want to get from normies. It beats the kind of reaction TLJ got. Because if people liked that movie on this level, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, and you wouldn't be seething.
How to spit a redditor
Spot*
The reddit card doesn't fly here because it's already established you enjoyed a Star Wars movie too. Should've thought about that earlier.
TLJ is not a sw movie according to reddit opinion discarded
It's a Star Wars movie through and through. One that tried to beat it's cousins and failed in a pretty comical manner.
Mando is superior to TLJ for being a largely original story about a new set of characters. Or at least that's my take. But it happens to coincide with a lot of other people's takes.
And yes, there is fanservice (god forbid), and yes, there's Luke Swampwalker with a CGI face, and guess what? It's a Luke that is consistent with the one from a few years ago that spared his father's life.
>W-why don't you just enjoy dogshit Marvel commercials in your Star Wars like a good consoomer
You manbabies really deserve the shit that has been flung at you from all sides be it from normalgays, other media, your own fandom or even the products you consume. TLJ is really the natural conclusion to the shitshow that is the Star Wars fandom and you had it coming.
I really hope you enjoy your ad ridden soulless Disney product compared to that other soulless ad ridden Disney product that also deservedly shows contempt for you Lmao. No SW movie holds greater entertainment than you guys seething over getting made fun of again
I get that, but this is the kind of rhetoric you should lead with next time. You simply hate Star Wars and enjoyed the more deconstructive nature of TLJ.
The best thing about the whole angle is that you're genuinely angry when people DO enjoy Star Wars, meaning you're absolutely the broken buck who loves hearing how people hate TLJ.
What kind of argument is this?
The old "TLJ is a great film but bad as a Star Wars movie" claim?
Have you considered what it means for your favourite franchise when you say that every single instance has to be filled with the same old tropes, cannot innovate and needs to be outright shit as anything other than fanservice and lore database?
It's mediocre as a film. Has some decent directing, visuals and cinematography. Music too, but that's a given so I don't count it in.
As a Star Wars movie? It doesn't really work.
>when you say that every single instance has to be filled with the same old tropes
Which I've never said.
If you can't think of new tropes without doing a 180 on some old tortured character for the sake of a plot-twist, you're simply not a good writer. A good writer crafts an innovative story from the ground up, but doesn't disregard what came after.
Your thinking is two dimensional, and you consider practically everything that isn't fan service to be good. It's an understandable reaction, but ultimately that of a midwit.
>It's mediocre as a film.
No. It's literally the best made Star Wars film, and up there in terms of writing with TESB.
>As a Star Wars movie? It doesn't really work.
It worked for critics, casual audiences and lovers of the medium of film.
It didn't work for people like you who are obsessed with wookiepedia and their own headcanons.
>without doing a 180 on some old tortured character
A 180 by doing what? Writing him with the same character traits he always had? Are you contradicting yourself again, anon?
>Your thinking is two dimensional
Says the fanboy who only thinks in the one single dimension of "does it fit my headcanon".
>It's literally the best made Star Wars film
Not specifically no.
>It worked for critics
Critics have never been as irrelevant as they are in 2021+1.
>casual audiences
If anyone hated it, it was casuals, which what part of your own argument hinges on. That in itself motivates you to like it.
> and lovers of the medium of film
Lovers of the medium of film are hardly concerned with modern Star Wars to begin with, but I digress.
>Are you contradicting yourself
No me, Luke was contradicting himself. If Rian pulled a similar schtick with Palpatine, you would see what I mean.
It's inconsistent writing. And yes, I know Luke "redeems" himself (all over again because why not? we're disney and we're original right?). It wasn't a good redemption story.
Luke is simply a loser. And that's ok. That was the message of the movie.
Many people prefer non-losers. I happen to prefer Luke's arc in the OT.
Your made up manbaby narrative about other people hating Star Wars and that's why they hate you doesn't work. Some people can hate you for the simple reason that you are insufferable which is the case of almost every Star Wars fan today. You trying to spin your baby brain on whether I enjoyed TLJ or not despite me saying from the start that it's a dogshit movie is for example another case of a Star Wars manbaby trying to only see what he wants to see instead of the simple fact that I enjoy you seething about a soulless Disney ad while you are sucking the wiener of another soulless Disney ad.
Rian Johnson is a hack and you're subhuman troony
>that emotionally stunted manbaby
Totally unlike the unhinged TLJtards ITT eh?
Star Wars may be the single most pathetic “fandom” on this planet.
If there's any blame to be put on anyone, it should be on KK for not having her people come up with an actual overarching narrative outlined for the ST ahead of time instead of making shit up as they went along. For all the flaws the prequels have, George told he story he wanted to tell.
The sequels have no overreaching vision, the directors literally took turns retconning each other. And this is completely baffling. Unlike the OT, they knew it was going to be a trilogy from the start so there's really no excuse.
Especially when George even wrote an outline and hired a writer to flesh it out for her.
>mfw I kill Star Wars and then get over $450M for my own franchise
Thanks for the tax cuts Trumptards!
At least you're earnest.
every time I submit my vote and start to feel good about my actions, I remember rian johnson can cancel out my vote.
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO WHY IT'S NOT LIKE MUH CHILDHOOD!!!!!
The worst fanbase in history.
Let's put it this way. You happen to enjoy a movie, for whatever silly reason. Then a sequel comes a long, and the protagonist of the movie suddenly has amputated legs. But they never actually explain why that is, or give a giood reason for it. But because it's different and a plot twist, it's good in and of itself? You see? It's true cinema in the vein of El Topo and Andrei Rublev. The character drinks milk from a blue tit, and that's artistically valuable. Because you see, the milk is blue, and in the real world, milk ain't even blue. That's what artistry is.
>the protagonist of the movie suddenly has amputated legs
Not only have you not understood TLJ, you also do not understand writing in general.
Rian didn't understand Luke Skywalker.
>Rian didn't understand Luke Skywalker.
He understood him in a way you never will: As an actual character with flaws that have been present since the OT.
You instead get worked up about him drinking blue milk. Which he never did in TLJ, by the way: The milk in that film is green. The film that showed Luke drink blue milk was actually the original Star Wars, A New Hope. But I don't think you paid attention during that, since you missed all of Lukes character traits AND that he did something as disgusting as drinking milk that came from a bantha's breasts!
>As an actual character with flaws that have been present since the OT.
The flaws he overcame in the OT were for naught, and he developed additional flaws to boot. That's called regressing.
I get that you hate the idea of Jedi and heroic characters anon, but Star Wars is about heroes. It's not a downer story.
Rian wanted to make a movie about Kenobi but didn't have access to that character. It's a shame.
>You instead get worked up about him drinking blue milk
That was a joke. I couldn't give 2 shits about the blue milk.
>you missed all of Lukes character traits
My name isn't Rian, for starters.
>flaws he overcame
No one ever overcomes flaws. Grow up.
>and he developed additional flaws to boot.
Nope. You just didn't understand Luke in the OT.
>Rian wanted to make a movie about Kenobi but didn't have access to that character.
TLJ Luke is nothing like Obi-Wan at any point. You again show that you cannot read character arcs at all.
>That was a joke.
Nice backpaddling.
Next time you make a "joke", at least pretend that you're trying to be funny.
Honestly pretty pathetic that TLJtrannies and Riantrannies still come here after 4 years seething about people who dunk on their shit movie.
Well I only see manchilds seething about a 5 years old movie and TLJ chads slaughtering them
Right, it sure isn't manchildren seething that "You just didn't get my deep movie bro"
TLJ fans and this guy
have SO much more in common than you realize.
The average TLJ fan is the one who automatically assumes plot twists are good storytelling in and of themselves, no matter how they're applied.
You should watch more movies, simple as.
TLJ tards have to create a false dichotomy in their heads that anyone who disliked TLJ must be a Mando soilent,l when in reality most people who dislikes TLJ also dislikes Mandolorian but for different reasons.
Kek. TLJ hating Mandalorian fanboys literally prove you wrong:
>It's a Luke that is consistent with the one from a few years ago that spared his father's life.
Ah, yes, being a non-character with some pointless action scene that's reminiscent of Vader slaughtering people in another fanservice scene is totally consistent with OT Luke!
But TLJ is not deep, people like you are just too dump
Then was left is there for it to be as good as you claim it is? "It's not deep" It fricking should be. Go and tell Rian to make a deep movie, I want to see it. Blue milk or not.
>No one ever overcomes flaws
What? Lol
>Nice backpaddling.
It genuinely was a joke, but your replies are coming off more autistic with each subsequent one, and sarcasm never translated well in print anyway.
At this point you're in absolute denial about everything. "no one overcomes flaws" Top fricking lel.
>What? Lol
Sorry, but that's how human being work. Resisting a temptation doesn't mean you'll never be tempted again. Harsh, I know. But that's life.
>It genuinely was a joke
You're not funny, child.
>muh human beiinngss reeeeee my space opera doesn't have enough realismmmm ;~~* I'm a grown boy nooowww
Luke Skywalker is a Jedi. He's not the average human being. And all the adversity he faced in TLJ, he already did in the OT, and then some.
Luke Skywalker is a fricking loser in TLJ and Rey is a better hero than him.
Which I guess is part of the reason you liked it as a coomer brain.
>Luke Skywalker is a Jedi. He's not the average human being.
Imagine thinking that Jedi are in any way "not the average human being". If the prequels had any point, it was showing that Jedi are no better or wiser than your average Joe, let alone infallible.
>coomer
Ah, more meaningless reddit buzzwords!
The average human being can't do what Luke did, yes.
And him regressing into an inferior state to the one he was during the entire OT, where he was facing bigger challenges while at a younger age, isn't good writing. It's inconsistent and he ultimately didn't even redeem himself. I see very few reasons why anyone would like Luke as a protagonist specifically.
But he's also not an antagonist. So he's just kind of... there.
So you dislike Star Wars. Awesome, I respect that. But you're not of relevance to the specific debate then.
>The average human being can't do what Luke did, yes.
Yes, he can. That's why the OT works. It's supposed to be relatable and a view on the human condition. Not some unattainable bullshit. Luke is meant to literally represent the average viewer, at least in terms of potential.
>You're not funny, child.
It's funny, you're just taking this too seriously because you're emotionally invested like the people you're trying to make fun of.
>chads
Rian has always been a troony hating chad.
That movie was awesome and you're all b***hes
/thread
We get it, TLJtrannies. you hate heroic white males.
As the TLJ Chad I declare this thread a victory for myself and my based intellectual brethern
There is one loser who come in every SW thread on /tv and pretends to be multiple people while defending Corporate SW. He waxes endlessly about TLJ being brilliant and yet he misspells basic words, gets basic facts wrong, and he’s an unemployed emo who still lives with his parents. Ignore him.
I don't think that's the case. I think it's a bit funny if even charming that he's "dunking" on corporate consoomers while defending corporate products. But I have no doubt in my mind that TLJ resonated with some people, because they're just easy to please if you simply trick them into thinking you're not consuming typical star wars.
Powerful
Actually based on an Irvin Kershner quote on what he thinks Star Wars means. So, yes, actually powerful.