How does a pre-modern agricultural society function in a setting where the weather is random and winters can last for multiple years, or even decades?
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by preparing for winter all year(s)
by making your motto 'winter is coming'
Reminds me of Dumbledore.
That was supposed to have been the main point. This time not only did they not do that, but the squandered every resource they had, and destroyed everything. All fields burnt, peasants murdered, silos and storage destroyed, resources used up, castles destroyed, etc. And now a years long brutal winter is upon them.
it's ok it only lasts a little bit and then the main problem is dany and her t̶h̶r̶e̶e̶ two dragons, we know this now
it's basically just Nightfall by Asimov but butchered by the fat man. He is a sci-fi writer after all.
There are no fridges, and if the climate is warm, how do you store meat, or most vegetables?
Where I'm from we used to slaughter an animal (if it wasn't winter), and instantly share it with the village, just so it wouldn't go bad. And they'd do the same.
Yeah if winter lasted too long there would be mass starvation.
Why would they need a fridge in freezing winter, dumb frick?
>There are no fridges, and if the climate is warm, how do you store meat, or most vegetables?
Are you fricking moronic or something? You do know there was food preservation for thousands of years before the refrigerator was invented.
For the record, Winterfell has greenhouses.
Ned had the greenhouses built for Cat, so they’re very new. The older things they had were the hot springs which are channeled through the interior castle walls
I wish he had at least some throw away line or two about some extra storage or methods they'd used otherwise it really doesn't make any sense or is possible
ADWD is basically just book 6 of WoT before everything starts to go to shit. Anyone that's read even the barest of fantasy can tell that this shit needs at least another 3 or 4 books to get close to wrapping it up. There's a 0% chance we get Winds but even if we did it would be nowhere NEAR a complete series. There is just no way to wrap this up satisfactorily in 2 books, even if each of them were 1200 fricking pages.
They're both going to be more than 1200. Iirc WoW will be 1600 pages.
How does a family name last for 7000+ years uninterrupted, even for shitty minor houses? Medieval stasis is so moronic. Daily reminder that the books are finished but he's embarassed and doesn't want to live to see the backlash.
>How does a family name last for 7000+ years uninterrupted
Passing an honored family name down is like priority #1 for most of them
>Daily reminder that the books are finished but he's embarassed and doesn't want to live to see the backlash.
I think he's going to change a lot to stand out from the show. I bet Tyrion will be revealed to be a targ.
>I bet Tyrion will be revealed to be a targ.
That would be moronic, the whole point of his character is how he simultaneously mirrors and stands out from the other Lannisters, especially Tywin.
Mad king raped Joanna lannister and tyrion has hair so blonde it's almost white.
He's going to ride a dragon and it's going to be subversive.
Midges can't even ride ponies.
It would be more fitting for Jaime and Cersei to be secret targaryen bastards as they are sibling frickers and would make a nice parallel between Jaime and his half-brother as both would've committed in patricide and another parallel being that while Jaime killed the king Tyrion killed the Kings hand
Either Tyrion is a Targ bastard, or Jaime and Cersei are Targ bastards. Tyrion has hair that is at times described as platinum blond, and he’s got one green eye and one black eye which might actually be dark purple. Evidence on the other side is the incest and Cersei’s madness.
Plus, perhaps most important of all, it would mean that Jaime and Tyrion, best friends and brothers, either both killed each others fathers or their own fathers. Now try to tell me that doesn’t sound like something George would write, even if he never intended on coming out and saying it or it having any relevance to the story.
Kind of like how George had TWO DIFFERENT characters get propositioned by prostitutes that neither party realized were actually half siblings.
who was the other character who got propositioned by their half sibling. i know gendry is one.
>Daily reminder that the books are finished but he's embarassed
not sure if this is the most pathetic cope, but it’s definitely top 5.
you suspend disbelief because it's fiction, that's all
>Passing an honored family name down is like priority #1 for most of them
7000 years is too long for even the language to be of any similarity. George just has no sense of scale, it's the same problem with the wall being 700 feet tall. The numbers are absurd.
Just in general, george has little care for what actually makes sense. The idea that the lannisters can trace any lineage thousands of years into the past is ridiculous. The scale of structures like the wall is absurd. The kind of armor and weapons that people wear is totally unrealistic, "boiled leather" armor is not a thing, and everyone uses swords and nobody uses spears. There's no consistent technological level, it's just all over the place.
Lord of the rings despite being "high" fantasy vs asoiaf's "low" fantasy is far more realistic, with nations like rohan being appropriately old (~500 years), and having realistic and consistent weapons and armor (lots of chainmail and spears). Armor is also given proper value, where gimli nearly dies chipping his axe on an orc's iron collar, and anduril is notably special for cleaving through orc armor.
Spears are NOT kino.
Not true. Plenty of good movies use spears. It's really the bottom of the barrel schlock that needs to stick to only swords to appease the mouthbreathers.
>having realistic and consistent weapons and armor
not super realistic, all of the important characters are decked out in silver and gold armor covered in gemstones by Return of the King
>all of the important characters are decked out in silver and gold armor covered in gemstones by Return of the King
So more or less exactly what rich kings actually wore.
But ASOIAF isn't set in the late middle ages
It's set whenever it wants to be set.
>with nations like rohan being appropriately old (~500 years),
Isildur died in TA 2
Denethor II was born in TA 2984
gondor was special because it was founded by numenoreans
there's a proper amount of history that occurs for those thousands of years, and it was on a very long decline, changed capital city, etc.
I'm sorry, but "this kingdom is special so it doesn't count" invalidates that whole point, since you can just as well apply it to ASOIAF
Note that I'm not saying ASOIAF has good world building, just took exception to that single point
asoiaf doesn't count because there's no justification for it. They create societies that last thousands of years, yet nothing happens during this time.
The difference between early gondor and late gondor is like the difference between early and late rome. Whereas there seems to be no social, technological, political progression in asoiaf at all.
The Unsullied and the Dornish are famous for favoring spears over swords, and plenty of other characters (e.g. Loras) favor lances
it's silly that anyone would be famous for favoring spears over swords, the sword is a sidearm in war.
Plus the whole idea of the unsullied being eunuchs is also ridiculous, as if soldiers with weak muscles and osteoporosis would be useful
"Elite Slave Army" is a nonsense concept.
But those existed IRL. Like Mamelukes and Janissaries.
Janissaries were running the show within a few generations.
>I'll create an elite palace guard, just like Rome and China had!
>sir you might wanna read those historical accounts a bit further
>naaaaaw it'll be fine
Tbf it worked out with the Varangians, a converted slave caste in theory should work to keep away native tribal Turkish clan influence (see the rivalry they had with the sipahi) buuuuuuuuuuut
Varangian’s weren’t slaves, they were well compensated mercenaries with no stake in the local politics. Same reason The Julio-Claudians had a battalion of German mercenaries as their personal bodyguards to protect them from the praetorians, who were Italians with a lot to gain from playing kingmaker. The Germans saved Claudius when the praetorians went apeshit and were curb stomping then denizens of the palace after they killed Caligula. Later dynasties did away with them and relied solely on the praetorians for protection, attempting to control them with ever increasing bonuses and bribes.
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Varangians were kino
Mamluks as well. Might be because arabs forgot to cut their dicks off. This is the brilliance of of George's writing, he thought of everything.
Not really. Medieval arabs had literal elite slave armies composed of slaves from the caucasus captured as boys and raised to be warriors, the mamluks.
GRRM takes inspiration from actual historical events, but misunderstands them and butchers them into a parody
>reads about steppe nomads
>kinda forgets about everything unrelated to horses, makes them naked horse riders armed with knives
>reads about slave soldier classes of certain muslim nations
>kinda forgets about the concept of puberty, comes up with eunuch soldiers
>reads about hadrian's wall and great wall of china
>kinda forgets about common sense and dimensions, decides the wall should be a 700 feet tall monstrosity
>reads about french feudalism
>kinda forgets about kings constantly trying to increase the crownlands whenever possible, comes up with a society where enfeoffing lords to everything outside your castle seat and the surrounding areas is basically a tradition
>what are viceroys
>GRRM takes inspiration from actual historical events, but makes them into kino
So?
The worst part is that nobility is also done poorly. Knights are either sons of great lords, or highly proficient poorgays overcoming their house losing everything in the past, with the odd bum still holding on to their knighthood. No professional landed knights with very modest holdings compared to their lords. Also everyone just fields several hundred to a few thousand men by themselves. Retainers are just childhood friends, family members or ambitious social climbers. Fatman doesn't even understand feudalism.
>No professional landed knights with very modest holdings compared to their lords.
The Mountain? I don't blame it's semi-canon either way.
I don't think that's a genuine criticism there's small landed knights mentioned throughout the story. Cleganes, Davos, others I can't recall and are just named in passing like some bit in either 3 or 4 talking about an ancient knight in a tiny keep
a lot of the knight retainers at court could likely hold small keeps somewhere and it's just not mentioned as they're unimportant tracts of land
It's also strange how each family is limited to one castle, and castles are very few compared to size.
So, the North has like 8 castles, and it is supposed to be 50% the size of Brazil?
I won't argue with the rest of it but there's nothing wrong with having a fantastical landmark especially when it's keeping the fantastical at bay.
What are mamlukes? What are janissaries?
>What are janissaries?
They fight the sultan's enemies for free
It's not, but an army of castrati most certainly is. Eunuchs wouldn't have the muscularity to fight actual men in a pre-modern war. It's like adult men vs pre-teen boys.
just snibbedi snab :-DDD them after they reach fighting age
They're castrated as boys iirc. And even if you wait until they're grown, they're still going to be weak homosexuals with like 5% of the androgen production of a normal man. Male hormones are important for physically strenuous activities, who knew? Also, unlike kids, a group of grown men with military training seems unlikely to lie down and get castrated without much resistance.
Technically you could give them vasectomies since the eunuch thing is so they have no families to be loyal to
Vasectomies are pretty modern, the Unsullied were just castrated.
Yeah that's the technical part, i was just talking hypothetically, obviously vasectomies are too advanced
One of the selling points of the Unsullied is that they don't rape, snipping them wouldn't help with that
>elite slave army of eunuchs
ftfy
>The idea that the lannisters can trace any lineage thousands of years into the past is ridiculous
You know people can trace their heritage back to Charlemagne, right?
funny how to snowBlack folk charlemange may as well be a prehistorical figure, as you had no writing system or any semblance of civilization a few centuries before him
A few centuries before Charlemagne was the Roman empire, you dolt.
not the snowBlack folk who moved in right after
doubt, outside of some loose connection like the x% of Asia is related to Genghis Khan thing, but even if that is the case you are talking about 1200ish years not 7000. It would be like the Windsors (or Saxe Coburg Gotha) tracing their lineage back before the Sumerians. It's absurd.
That's a little over 1,000 years. 7,000 years goes beyond the Bronze Age Collapse to god knows what, prior to written language. At best it can be a reveal that yes it's all a larp and history in their world is maybe documented properly a few hundred years prior to the conquest but we'll never know because fatman doesn't write
>At best it can be a reveal that yes it's all a larp and history in their world is maybe documented properly a few hundred years prior to the conquest but we'll never know because fatman doesn't write
This was already revealed at the end of affc by the renegade maester, Marwyn? Or something.
Oh yeah? Can people trace their lineage directly back to the first king in Mesopotamia? Because that's just about the same, in fact it's even farther.
this is where george's failure to understand scale and just the basic but usually unspoken principles of storytelling and more specifically fantasy. if EVERY lord can trace their lineage back it's stupid - if you've got ONE family or even better, ONE guy, it's a lot cooler and a lot more impactful.
Did Charlemagne live 7,000 years ago, moron?
Charlemagne didn't live 7000 years ago you fat moron and none of them still have his name or could understand his language let alone dress in his exact clothes
>There's no consistent technological level, it's just all over the place.
Reminder that WW2 soldiers literally hung out with pre Stone Age savages in Papua New Guinea
What did they do together?
Allied troops appeared and used the land to build airstrips and then left. Cargo cults followed trying to coax back the big metal birds with tasty spam
The Coptic language is basically ancient Egyptian, but written in a different script, because Christians considered hieroglyphic script as being a “religious” script, and banned it.
This is one of the reasons it was possible to translate the hieroglyphic script.
As for lineages being able to be traced back thousands of years.
Rudy Giuliani.
Does that last name sound like a prominent historical name?
Also, there are israeli families that can trace their family lineage back to at least the time of Christ, and maybe further.
Around the time of Herod, there were official genealogical records kept tracing family lineages back to the Exodus. (Around 2000 years earlier).
There are currently known descendants of Confucius, because genealogical records were kept of the main family branches.
>christians banned it
Why do you just spout lies? Hieroglyphics were already on their way out by the time Christians came on the scene in any meaningful way. They were closely related to the Egyptian state religion, which began to decay once the Romans took over and abolished the office of pharaoh. Without that central figure to hold things together, the religion faded away along with most of its related practices. Hieroglyphics were already essentially dead by the time Christians came to power in the late fourth century. Stop brainlessly repeating propaganda
“The last known hieroglyphic inscription is a graffito by a priest at Philae temple dated to AD 394.”
400 years after Christ.
More than 150 years after Constantine.
Obviously a completely dying script.
And this is just the last known inscription.
You might want to check your dates on Constantine there chief, and indeed Jesus, and also what 400 means
>Rudy Giuliani.
>Does that last name sound like a prominent historical name?
What do you mean, Julius Caesar? It's probably just Amerilard wewuzzing not anything real, especially since Caesar had no male children survive into adulthood.
On another note, the Japanese royal family is ~2500 years old, but they cheated by not keeping a single line but a few interrelated branches up until the Meiji Restoration.
The Georgian royal family the Bagrationi has records going back to an Armenian official at the Parthian court in 3rd century.
>"boiled leather" armor is not a thing
Not defending Grimy, but cuir boillee certainly is real. You saturate leather in molten beeswax and when it cools and dries it's tougher than shit, and doesn't mildew.
>"boiled leather" armor is not a thing,
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiled_leather
yes and your own source states that it's pretty useless and mostly used for ceremonial purposes
He's in panic mode because GoT's ending was actually his book ending and after seeing the reception he's too scared to release.
he surely has the dany going insane ending in the book, but it will make much more sense with young griff being around and stealing all her thunder.
the individual finish lines of the show characters were ok. it was just the way they arrived at those that was embarrassing and stupid
>the individual finish lines of the show characters were ok. it was just the way they arrived at those that was embarrassing and stupid
this. It felt like davids just wanted to be done with it
Well they were meant to be heading to Star Wars thats why they reduced the episodes. But then it backfired as the shittiness of it all got them kicked off lel.
>young griff
Considering this was a very obvious retcon late into the series does that mean Martin knew his original plans for the ending were shit?
yeah it's kind of a shame as it's not bad and adds stuff with the Blackfyres being talked about. It also makes Varys make sense when he's clearly after something more than Daenerys and Viserys
it's just obvious that Griff is an addition as Daenery's storyline especially with Illyrio doesn't make sense with Griff being around
It's not. Illyrio clearly loves Aegon as a sin and I'm sure he doesn't want to risk him at first. It's easier to send Dany away either to get killed or to invade Westeros to make way for his real card Aegon. If she survives, she makes a good target wife; if she didn't, well it sucks.
*as a son, damn it.
Dany was just a meek little girl. He wanted Drogo to invade with Viserys, then Aegon could swoop in and be the hero cleaning up the mess.
the whole Dothraki plan is harebrained whatever Illyrio and Varys' ultimate plan is.
He's not an addition since a "mummer's dragon" is shown to Dany in the House of Undying in the 2nd book.
It's not a retcon. Old griff is mentioned several times from book 2. He had already planned him and I doubt he was gonna show up without aegon.
timelines and ancestries before the arrival of the andals are made up by maesters sniffing their own farts and noblemen trying to make themselves more important than they are.
They literally say it in universe that the timelines and genealogies are made up further in the past.
Gurrrm has no sense of scale. He wanted to make it sound ancient so he said 7000 years without really fathoming what that really meant. He wrote the extent of Westeros and distances characters had to travel to make the kingdom seem huge and impressive and then had no idea how long it should take them. He wanted a tall, imposing wall and said 600 feet without knowing how high that really is.
>tl;dr
>GRRM is an American
>AI slop
eugh
So he's just a fricking idiot. Got it.
exaggerated scale is a hallmark of the series
>It's shit on purpose and morons like that therefore nobody can criticize this
I understand now
To compare, the most famous walls that kept out Slavs and Arabs out for a 1000 years Theodosius Wall is 59 feet tall at its highest towers.
Is that why American news reporters say this is 3 football fields long or weighs as much as 10 elephants?
this. he's a fat frick whose never spent any time outside. he can't write nature for shit. Tolkien could because he spent time out
I got the first book recently and I really feel like every scene with sexual encounters highlights how this man is writing up a fantasy of his over a real breathing world that he spectates
It's funny that HBO were the ones to adapt the show with their focus on "sexy scenes" because the sex scenes by and large in ASOIAF are not at all sexy
A good portion of them involve Tyrion
What, Fat Pink Mast didn’t get you going?
I largely like GRRM's writing but his sex scenes are awful. They at the very least are not completely useless smut they're usually used to show character interactions and progress the plot but they're just vile
The better question is how is the family so small? Like 10 people. There would be hundreds of aunts,uncles, cousins etc.
Right?
How has the House of Stark not gone extinct already? I know there was wildling baby thing, but besides that nothing.
Maintaining unbroken male lineage is very hard.in monogamous societies.
Plantagenets went extinct, and Habsburg went extinct
The Karstarks are related.
You actually don't want 300 uncles, cousins and friends of friends making up claims to the throne. You wanna keep the main line separated from the rest.
Well, that didn't a really happen in Europe.
After the Capet took over, their claim on the throne wasn't disputed until 300 years later by the English when one branch went extinct.
Believe it not 80% of nobles weren't cartoonishly scheming but were more than happy just be granted an appanage and live in comfort, while their brothers struggled with all bullshit
>"Not more than any other Northern House"
And they were related like 500 years ago.
500 years is nothing, Starks are over 8000 years old at least
we don't know that it's unbroken
the Lannisters aren't directly descended from Lann the clever paternally as an Andal married into the family and took the name, and that's who they're descended from. In general the Lannisters circumvent this as the Lannisters themselves are a large family with multiple branches and then there's cadet branches.
The fatman could try categorizing them as different houses.
Like call the post-wildling baby stark "Ancient Starks", but nope can't do that because whole line is trivia
the "post-wildling baby" thing if it actually was true was something the Starks themselves either forgot or was purposefully buried. The same with any other interruption from direct paternal descent would be either forgotten or purposefully ignored to form a sense of continuity.
Is it realistic? Probably not but it's not really that astonishing, some Romans family thought they were directly descended from gods and goddesses and may have taken their lineage at face value
That's where the general idea of finding a living heir comes into play.
Whatever system is in charge almost always adheres to some form of might makes right.
starks force younger sons to go to the wall
>Medieval stasis is so moronic
even more moronic when this includes a caste entirely dedicated to learning and knowledge with no direct medieval equivalent.
Monks?
to an extent in terms of literacy and preservation of texts but the church overall was more an impediment to scientific progress.
>the church overall was more an impediment to scientific progress.
Not really. The Catholic Church in particular was extremely progressive in terms of science back in the day. They still are to some extent. It wasn't really until the Protestant revolution that religious fundamentalism started thwarting scientific progress. Most of the great scientists and thinkers in the pre-modern era were deeply religious men.
bump
>Church preserved ancient literature and literacy with monasteries
>Church was the reason Universities developed
>Church used its funds to patron the Renaissance in Italy
>Church provided the incentive to design masterwork Cathedrals
Sciences benefited from the Catholic Church existing.
right and they also nearly burned galileo for heliocentrism. the point is maesters are secular.
Ah yes, house arrest in his extravagent manor for being a prick to the Pope in his scientific papers is the same as burning at the stake...
>renounce heliocentrism or burn
real scientific
>Pope Urban VIII had been a patron to Galileo and had given him permission to publish on the Copernican theory as long as he treated it as a hypothesis, but after the publication in 1632, the patronage broke due to Galileo placing Urban's arguments for God's omnipotence, which Galileo had been required to include, in the mouth of a simpleton character named "Simplicio" in the book; this caused great offense to the Pope.
Maybe don't bite the hand that feeds you. His findings were also not 100% accurate to our current understanding of Heliocentricism so he shouldn't have claimed his theory was a scientific law.
He literally presented the Pope as a basedjak and was surprised that something then happened.
galileo sounds like an butthole tbqh
>Galileo placing Urban's arguments for God's omnipotence, which Galileo had been required to include, in the mouth of a simpleton character named "Simplicio" in the book
Galileo was the first redditor?
Based
>His findings were also not 100% accurate to our current understanding of Heliocentricism
He never accounted for soral parallax which is why scientists had rejected heliocentrism since the Greeks. He never proved heliocentrism at all but you can't have the conflict thesis without that narrative so redditor new atheists have got to cling to it.
>soral
er, solar
Galileo wasn’t a fight between science and religion, it was a fight between science and scientific orthodoxy.
It wasn't even that, you gotta remember that Galileo lived during the period where the schism between catholics and protestants was causing massive civil unrest and literal wars. So no fricking shit the catholic church was wary of anything that could cause further division.
It wasn't even divisive they were just being c**ts with Italian politics. No one had ever complained about Copernicus prior.
It wasn't even that, he just insulted the pope in his works and the church had to step in because they can't have that
Religion and Academia being mortal enemies is a relatively modern invention, to be honest. In fact, people viewing the Old Testament as a history and science textbook is almost a uniquely American problem. And usually when "religion" becomes a problem, it's usually the result of political shenanigans. The rulers begin to realize that science or philosophy is presenting a challenge to their hold on power and the use religion as a pretext for snuffing out the problem.
pretense*
all fun and games until the religious worldview is challenged or contradicted
Better to be Catholic
Not enough people understand this, scientific and religious knowledge went hand-in-hand for most of history up until quite recently, most of the best scientists throughout the ages were religious. The protestant "reformation" and the eventual secularization of science have truly been devastating for the Christianity's image.
This is such a dumb misconception, no one had a problem with heliocentrism, the problem was that Galileo wouldn't stop insisting that Heliocentrism being true means Christianity isn't.
Not really the morons in Pisslam said science was dumb because Allah can change the laws of reality
Yea and moron atheist's in modern America can say "trust the science" and "men can give birth" in the same breath. The world is filled with idiots both religious and non-religious alike, always has been and always will be, that doesn't reflect poorly on religion itself.
With enough budget and a top of the line surgical suite, I could make a babboon man give birth to a human baby.
Fund my research.
>Christians destroyed the ancient literature in the first place
>Christians restricted literacy from the wider public for a long time
>Christians killed off the educated class in northern Europe
I'm sick of you revisionist homosexuals lying through your teeth.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The only revisionist here is you. All this bullshit comes from centuries old CATHOLICS BAD Anglo propaganda which was taken over by new atheists. Allow this atheist historian to explain:
https://historyforatheists.com/the-great-myths/
Yeah ok, now read this historian you lying homosexual
She's not a historian you lying homosexual, it took all of four seconds for me to google that.
Oh look O'Neill actually wrote a review about her lack of qualifications and blatant polemics.
https://historyforatheists.com/2017/11/review-catherine-nixey-the-darkening-age/
You've never even read that book you fricking moron you just pulled it out of your fat hole, without Christianity the entire world would look like Somalia
>female 'historian'
Frick off
hi plebbit
Monks don't function like Maesters. There wasn't a court monk appointed to every noble household and Maesters are irreligious and serve houses of various religions.
Scribes were a thing
Part of me whats to say that the whole 7000 years thing was a tribute to the old Assyrian kings who claim to trace their lineage back 10,000 years but then again GRRM might just be moronic.
They didn’t let israelites into their countries to displace them.
Ask israelites.
>several nations in the past have come ridiculously close to undergoing an industrial revolution and were only prevented from doing so from the nation collapsing due to things like internal/external enemies or climate change right when they were on the cusp of it
>despite being a unified and stable kingdom with no major collapse for thousands of years that has already reached a 1350 Europe level of technology including steel and mechanical inventions like the block and tackle and crossbow, Westeros remains stuck in a 850 era feudal age social system and has never ever undergone an industrial revolution because...THEY JUST HAVEN'T OKAY?
If he wasn't such a smug autistic moron fat hack could've gotten a pass but trying to portray Westeros as "mature" and "realistic" really opened him up to getting dabbed on.
The books haven't gotten that far yet. Have patience.
S'magic! Frick you!
>the weather is random
Huh?
>In 650 BC, the Babylonians predicted the weather from cloud patterns as well as astrology. In about 350 BC, Aristotle described weather patterns in Meteorologica.[3] Later, Theophrastus compiled a book on weather forecasting, called the Book of Signs.[4] Chinese weather prediction lore extends at least as far back as 300 BC,[5] which was also around the same time ancient Indian astronomers developed weather-prediction methods.[6]
The weather in Game of Thrones is different because magic
>the seasons* and their durations are random
It's not random, there are just multiple cycles. You could Fourier transform the time-season data and predict with high accuracy the seasons.
>it's not unknowable bro you could just [POST INDUSTRIAL MATH DEVELOPMENT] to find out on thr medieval stasis universe
Are you moronic
in the show, they say Maesters are able to tell how severe the winter is going to be. so I assume even with the magic, there's some forecasting
With a comprehensive tax policy.
Bro summer lasts for decades too, they grow and harvest and go fricking mad during that time. Probably 90% of what they’re growing is feed for livestock.
Still can’t believe we never ever got winter in the show even though it was supposed to be coming the whole time. We got 4 snowflakes.
You cant have agrarian civilization when you can't plan for seasons that are of undetermined length. Realistically, they would collapse and starve constantly and never become more than starving nomads killing each other for rabbits. Wouldn't the soil deplete faster as well if farmed constantly for 10 year stretches during summer? Nothing about that world makes sense, it stupid, but somehow it's now the entire focus of his (ghost)writing, releasing endless shit lore compendiums.
Dude I really don’t know how many people are in Westeros? It’s not like Nigeria or some shit with 800 million “people” burning down 50 acres of forest to kill an elephant for its tusks, King’s Landing is populous but KL probably has more people than the entire rest of Westeros.
I kind of feel for GRRM. He stole a series from Tad Williams and then decided he'd make it all grimdark and edgy, to prove to the ghost of Tolkien that heroic fantasy was for chuds and suckers
But the problem is he can't come up with a satisfying ending without Jon Snow killing the bad guy and taking the throne, which proves Tolkien right. He's stuck
it's like that bible story about 7 fat cows and 7 thin cows
>low fantasy setting
>as the series goes on, more and more magic shit happens to the point it's now commonplace
Many such cases
that was by design.
There are decades where nothing happens and there are years where decades happen. Books tend to be about the latter.
Yeah "Magic was forgotten and is now returning" is a very stereotypical fantasy trope.
Did somebody say "Magic was ubiquitous and is now disappearing"?
/kino/
patrician taste
I hate this trope not because it’s bad, but like every fantasy story seems to use it. the reversal is more interesting at this point.
just depressing and boring when the idea is, “everything’s fading then it’ll become 20th/21st century earth”
I don't love the series because of the trope, I love it because of the world Abercrombie creates from it
Shit piss frick grunt frick shit piss mud spit piss grunt prick bastard fruits c**t knife b***h prostitute frick shit piss
Without joking I do not understand why everyone likes this series but in the same breath will decry Sanderson. The prose isn't any deeper and the characters are all utterly unlikable or underdeveloped save Glockta.
joe can be pretty funny.
I like the battle sequences and there's usually just one good POV character to get attached to and root for.
>t. read only the Orso chapters in the second trilogy
I read the first book of this and it was okay but wasn't really inspired to try the rest. Does it pick up?
I thought the third one was probably the best one and the first 3 were pretty solid while 4 and 5 can be hit or miss depending on how much you like the characters/lore. things get pretty chaotic in 2 and 3.
yeah first three are good while 2 and 3 are chaotic it's relatively organized still and a natural sequence from the first book. 4 and 5 fall apart where too many main characters have been killed off and the story starts meandering too much and introducing new plot lines
I find ASOIAF a comfy series I think GRRM is a decent author and I like how the fat frick focuses on stuff like food. Just makes the writing comfy
Book starts with the fae killing a squad of rangers.
It starts with a bunch of zombies killing them, actually. It's still a complete 180 when a few books later there are shadow assassin monsters and a woman gets resurrected
The satellite passing by the planet is triggering all the old tech
Woah. What if the Others are Terminator style robots. The milk glass reflection shit is all just how medieval dudes would perceive a metallic robot, and their voices like an icy lake cracking is like a static robotic droning noise they make. And dragons are the drones they used to erradicate israel in 2032
its because the Targaryans lost the throne
the lord of light is the real god and comes from old valyria
The three eyed raven is really the villain
Why let Jojen reed die feet from safety? Because he would have seen though the falsehood of the raven who wants a new host
the night king was created by the children who made a deal with death to fight off the first men who were also dickheads
notice how the raven is a human host?
its death. the opposite of the lord of light
“ "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.
It’s gonna be so fricking funny when he dies without releasing the last books and everyone is just left hanging and seething.
i made my peace with it years ago. I treat them now as an excerpt from a story and not unifinished story
I would agree, but seeing how many have held so strongly onto delusion, I’m sure a bunch will say his wife has the full unreleased books, or there’s enough notes for an editor, or something else. They’ll keep finding a way to cope.
12 years ago I was upset with the prospect of this happening.
I dont think anyone gives a frick anymore, especially with how the show ended
His estate will absolutely hire someone like Neil Gaiman to complete the series using the notes GRRM undoubtedly has. There's too much money involved for them not to.
His estate is his barren wife, who might actually die before him, and then it goes to his sisters who would probably honor his wishes as well. Then it goes to the nephews and it's a different story. If he dies and then the wife shortly after, the rights go to HER family, they probably don't give a shit about this fricks legacy and want to cash out while it's relevant. Then you get the sanderson/gaiman slop you seem to want. I'll bet the wife dies first, so I'll try seducing a niece and get myself in the estate, littlefinger wins in my version, clearly.
I gave up on him years ago. When he dies, some heir will raid his notes and after we finally manage to clean the food stains off we can all have a laff at how he had no fricking clue how to finish his story.
Chaucer fans absolutely seething
yeah, i'm pretty over it at this point. I was once really into the books and enjoyed the lore but the show's descent into absolute shit and his refusal to release anything for over a decade now has me totally apathetic.
What's funny is how many ancient texts are lost, and all we're left to work with is people talking about them and trying to piece them together. This series will be similar, future historians will think that there were more books, look how much people talk about them, but will be puzzled about where to find them
lol future historians won't give a shit about these shitty books
how many george sand novels have you read?
most people accept that now i think
some of the theories are more interesting regardless
iirc grrm said he didn't want anyone else to write it after he dies. maybe they'll release notes or something
It's ok, Disney will pick up where George left off.
he didnt write a single book
its all the illuminati
they are releasing winds of winter for their 2024-2025 winter plague
I think it gets released December 2024
It's a white people thing, you unironically would not understand
I have a theory that Humans in ASOIAF are not humans like us, that is, homosexual sapiens. That would explaind why their languages are stable, why their societies remain the same for millenia and why they can have ' magical' powers.
I lean more so on the "history" is just completely fabricated for some reason. It'd explain everything. Basically andal invasion happened a lot more recently unifying language and there was more permanent hegemonies between kingdoms than implied. And all the houses claiming to be thousands upon tens of thousands of years old is just lies. And magic was a lot more prevalent. Why the maesters would make up all this history I don't know. But they have a total and complete corner on the flow of information so it's reasonable to think.
Tax policy?
Why did George not invest any thought into the economy of his setting? What are the annual revenues of the Iron Throne and its major vassals? How is Littlefinger generating wealth out of thin air? How can the severity of important plot points such as the Iron Bank debt or Tyrion's mercenary debt be assessed if the value of the setting's currency is ambiguous at best?
Is "I am not a numbers guy" an acceptable excuse for the person who came up with "What was Aragorn's tax policy?"
Same reason there are no proper noble titles only Lord's and "Great Lords".
Gurm is a lazy hack.
>How is Littlefinger generating wealth out of thin air?
pretty sure this one was explained as LF offering high interest loans to the crown which no one could call him out on since he was master of coin
It was part of his get rich off and powerful of chaos scheme. Lannister, Littlefinger, and Bravos all have a stake.
He was charging fees on lannister usury. He was a hedge-fund knight.
The whole point of Dorn and the Summer Isles was that they weren't effected by endless winter, only the North and the Ironborn really get the brunt of the perpetual snow.
Dorne is a barren desert, what are they eating? cum?
We can't have them completely ripping off Dune anon
He who controls the cum controls the universe!
I want to read your theories on this point: assuming it's story is real, who made the seastone chair?
Scary fish people.
They probably stole it during a raid.
he said he only has a hundred pages of manuscript left to write as of a few weeks ago so we might get it by new years
How did we go from people sucking him off to this?
Is it just an angry response to him basically dropping the book series or was he always a hack?
hot take: he is disappointed that fan theories have basically predicted everything
all his epic twists and buildups that he would blow your mind with have been already been talked over to great detail by book autists and loregay channels, with people coming up with huge hypothetical plotlines even out of the most irrelevant scrap of information over the years
this could have been averted if he was a faster writer, but now it's too late
bonus points if he hasn't actually fully decided on how the story (or certain plotlines) is meant to resolve, meaning that loregays may be influencing him in a distracting way
>hot take: he is disappointed that fan theories have basically predicted everything
Is that really a hot take? I'd be surprised if that wasn't one of the most popular explanations for his hiatus. GRRM probably realized by the third or the fourth book that he added way too many content to his universe throughout the years and it'll be a Herculean effort to tie the loose ends in a meaningful way. Probably the thought alone made him feel jaded. Then the TV show came and everything blew up. He became a sort of a celeb, the popularity of his books skyrocketed and his bank account got fatter than the man himself.
I can't tell if there were any problems with his work ethic before the fame but these circumstances surely didn't incentivize him to untangle his own shit. Even if he genuinely wanted to finish the series in a proper way the phenomenon you mentioned must have decimated his desire (and maybe also his options) to do so. Imagine dedicating decades from your life to the creation of something, only to realize to that you won't able to go out with a bang and there's practically nothing you can do to change that.
>I can't tell if there were any problems with his work ethic before the fame
Didn't HBO have to force him to release Dance alongside season 1 to try and get something out there?
But he hasn't decided, he says he's a 'gardener' type writer basically making stuff up that feels natural. And yeah, basically going from a fairly niche series to world famous and still not getting it done means that your plans are basically trashed and you can't be natural because everyone has been talking non stop in your ear (occasionally saying things you wish you thought of)
BIG NEWS. NEW ASOIAF BOOK TO BE RELEASED FOR THE HOLIDAYS.
Its the 😀
That really gets me
Always food in the Summer isles.
If you actually bother to pay attention to the world, you would be able to see that the planet is some sort of global playground for the powers-that-be. Everything is too convenient. Myths across the globe sound suspiciously alike. Even Bran is a slave to the narrative and can’t actually change anything. Humans are implied to have been bred into strange shapes in the primeval past, like the Lannisters or the Targaryens. Genetics everywhere is fricked. Neanderthals are still around, to the north and to the south.
Do the Lovecraft references not make this obvious?
Also, the magic is basically a living thing, in that it doesn’t always respond, or respond the way you want it to.
Is it some eldritch pedophilic blood obsessed AI from the stars or something? Nature doesn’t entertain or care about the suffering of children.
Winter killing everyone is the best ending of Game of Thrones
KIIIIINOOOOOOOO
alternatively…
They eat each others asses for sustenance
Bros how do I stop caring?
If you have read germs other works, the answer is more clearer, asoiaf is set in the 1000 worlds, where humans were a space faring civilization and warred with 2 alien species which resulted in destruction of all 3 and reversion of human civilization on planets to the stone age, humans mainly warred by bioengineering and the aliens by hive worship, further
1.the dragons come when the comet appears, in tuf voyaging, aliens are affected when a defunct human bio spaceship comes in line of sight
2. the symbol of the ecological corps responsible for this bio engineering is the theta, this is shown in the first episode of the show
3. proto-valyrians were sheep herders, dragon riders are a separate species with spliced dna, some targ miscarriage are scaled abominations
Shut up Preston.
ok preston but why havent you played elden ring yet?
it's the most like Ice and Fire
Why do you endorse child male genital mutilation Preston?
because I am a leftoid, current year, numale homosexual.
Keep making videos that nobody watches about slop shows and streaming with that tard Carmine
You’re the kind of guy who wonders about how Noah fit all the animals in the arc, aren’t you?
Jews weren’t in charge of the Ark so it was packed with plenty of room for important animals and not just mosquitoes and hatians
What do deciduous trees do in Westeros? Do they just retain their leaves for as long as summer lasts whether it be five or ten years? Presumably animals that hibernate can survive for over three hundred days when there's a long winter? Off their stored reserves of fat? Do birds and insects migrate?
If there was constant summer for years crops would be fricked by drought and forests burned by wildfires.
>summer = desert and forest fires and famine
Meanwhile summer in Africa.
>giant island populated by multiple different groups of different origins
>they all speak the exact same language
meanwhile in small RL England dialects change every 200 meter
The world is a giant eldritch/alien simulation anon
The myths and legends of the world far too are eerily similar anon
The narrative/psychosphere of the world is enforced anon
Even Bran is a slave to the narrative anon
This is fantasy horror anon
Stop watching loreshit on youtube
>It's not SUPPOSED to make sense
A mummers farce
>Car Starks
So, they’re Starks but they drive? idgi
>Society based entirely around medieval feudalism
>Only ranks are "ser", lord, and king
I mean, it isn't as bad as it sounds.
Unlike garbage games like Crusader Kings, the hierarchy wasn't all that defined.
For example, the title of duke didn't exist in England until the late 15th century.
Even "baron" wasn't a real title before the 16th century, it was just a word that meant your liege was king and not another vassal (tenant-in-chief).
So, in 13th-century England noble hierarchy was:
>king
>earl
>lord
>knight
Technically any earl or lord would could be called "baron" if they held their land directly from the king.
Earl itself was pretty similar to how Martin depicts the wardens.
Any man who held enfeoffed land was a lord.
I can't believe I'm defending Martin.
I want people to think me leal.
why does anybody care about his books? we already know the ending, and it's shit
it doesn't. George's worldbuilding is terrible at a technical level.
They do a lot of pickling
Pickling Rickard?
Not fricking well. Honestly it makes no sense whatsoever for there to be sizable civilizations outside of Sothoryos and the Summer Isles. Yes, I understand that GRRM tried to make those places inhospitable by filling them with dinosaurs and magic butterflies and black people, but it would be easier to solve those problems than to have 99% of all people die every few years because it's impossible to grow food for the next decade. I don't see how civilization could realistically flourish in such an environment in ancient times with no technology.
This is why the ASOIAF is a post-apocalypse story theory makes sense to me. I can see a world where technologically advanced societies conquered the climate problem and then fell to ruin, leaving disparate factions in inhospitable environments leaving bits of magic behind or whatever. But I cannot imagine a scenario when prehistoric cave people wandered out into these environments and stayed there after the first decade long winter.
>This is why the ASOIAF is a post-apocalypse story theory makes sense to me. I can see a world where technologically advanced societies conquered the climate problem and then fell to ruin, leaving disparate factions in inhospitable environments leaving bits of magic behind or whatever
It's a "stole 'Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn' from Tad Williams" story
>This is why the ASOIAF is a post-apocalypse story theory makes sense to me. I can see a world where technologically advanced societies conquered the climate problem and then fell to ruin, leaving disparate factions in inhospitable environments leaving bits of magic behind or whatever. But I cannot imagine a scenario when prehistoric cave people wandered out into these environments and stayed there after the first decade long winter.
there's a couple of lines about the Maesters thinking seasons worked differently in the past, I think. There's that whole fan theory about a Maester conspiracy to kill off magic and if that's true and one of their goals is to just return their planet to a normal seasonal change then that'd be neat
it doesn't really make sense but the worldbuilding and history of the setting seems to largely ignore the years long winters. Like ANY large scale war like we see with the War of the Five Kings or the Dance of Dragons would be a complete death sentence to whole regions of the kingdom if they lost their food supply before winter came
>There's that whole fan theory about a Maester conspiracy to kill off magic
To be fair, that's not just a fan theory. Actual Characters in the books make the same speculation. Well, mostly. They don't go so far as to say that the Maester goal is to rid the world of magic, but Marwyn the Mage, the single most based character in all of ASOIAF, is of the belief that the Maesters killed the dragons.
Yeah, I think the idea is that the Others brought the seasonal frickups. The weather patterns at least marginally appear to correlate with magical happenings throughout all the major civilizations. And the myths of the various cultures all seem to refer to the same events if you squint hard enough.
And credit to the fat man, that's a decent piece of worldbuilding. I like the idea that this catastrophe is chronicled in myth in every culture from Westeros to Yi Ti, and everyone has their own spin on it. That actually feels very authentic and happens in the real world as well, what with all these stories about giants and a great flood found in myths from wildly disconnected cultures from ancient Judeans to Native Americans. I like reading all that shit, even if it's nonsense. Makes the world feel a bit more magical.
>what with all these stories about giants and a great flood found in myths from wildly disconnected cultures from ancient Judeans to Native Americans
I like the theory that the red headed giants in Native American legend are just a mythologized account of the arrival of Vikings in North America. We know Leif Erikson landed in North America long before Columbus and the various colonists. I like the idea that a few tribes encountered these people, got rekt and the survivors told everyone else what happened, and eventually these tall frightening men became the red headed giants of myth.
I know that idea pisses off conspiracy theorists, but it just seems plausible and I kind of find it more interesting than the idea of actual giants.
I don’t know why it would piss them off, most conspiracy theories around the subject revolve around Michigan copper being the source of Bronze Age copper
Frequent hunting and drying meat for preservation.
The videogame: Dawn of Man illustrates the idea.
You are now aware of the Medieval Warming Period. Cyclical climate change over millennia is feature of every world.
How do we break the lie of manmade climate change?
By extra-political means
I fear that the automotive industry and their electrical tomfoolery may be too difficult to outmaneuver politically and/or financially.
Just wait for their batteries to combust
Shed light on what “climate change” actually is: israelites dumping poison into the ocean to manufacture dilators and planned obsolescence bullshit that shouldn’t exist.
Yes, I hate planned obsolescence with all my heart; it is plain deception and people tolerate it.
Who cares they ruined it with lame woke shit which is antithetical
Realismgays get the rope too
did he fug that turkish prostitute?
Oh my sweet summer child
How is the timeline in ASOIAF again currently? Something like 2 years from the start, it's been winter for maybe 6 months? I know ADOS (yes I know it won't release) implies it's still winter so will the winter be 3 years or some shit?
I ask because it seems like everyone is under prepared for it and so will probably die
Winter has just started by the end of book 5. IICR, Jaime sees snow from his window and some houses manage to get the white ravens indicating winter is here.
>get the white ravens indicating winter is here
What do they do for the rest of the time?
Lots of raven training. Dunno how they learn all those different castles without actually flying there which would function as a false alert of Winter
So was Valyria 300 years ago?
It's 400 years ago, the Targaryens twiddled their thumbs for 100 years on Dragonstone while letting their dragons grow. Which is kind of dumb but whatever
I think it's a bit weird how recent a civilization like the Valyrians were in the worldbuilding especially since they were thousands of years old and seemed to still be at their peak. It doesn't really make sense they didn't conquer Westeros just because or Westerosi weren't completely terrified of the ever looming threat across the sea for thousands of years
Westeros was ooga booga to them
>targs decide to raze dorne
>the dornish can apparently just hide in le caves?
>and they are not experiencing famine even though their entire country is under siege and they have few fertile territories which are being torched by dragons??
>aegon gets le mysterious letter... and decides to just give up???
10/10 writing
i think he wanted to go for the "dragons are not invincible" angle but he just ended up butchering it (like everything he tries)
Yea idk wtf he was thinking with having Dorne canonically resist the Dragons, they're so utterly OP that it doesn't make any sense for mere humans to ever beat them
He was trying to indicate guerrilla warfare, but that’s a lot less plausible in the Middle Ages when you can just go kill every single man woman and child you see without the international media and the UN Human Rights Commission breathing down your neck.
He's a pseud
The GRRM "what is aragorn's tax policy" line is still the funniest thing ever to me because George clearly knows NOTHING about taxes or the running of a society.
He is great at writing dialogue and drama but that quote he made is so fricking ironic.
very carefully
it just does
the kingdom of stark relies on staggered multi party migrational feudal class system where the peasants travel to and from the kingdom working fields for another lord and at the onset of winter return home to get paid, while the employer kingdom repatriates some of the grain and livestock in order to pay back the origin kingdom plus fees
This got retconned into being climate patterns with normal seasons still occurring within them.
So Westeros will be going from a temperate climate to a subarctic climate for some number of years that could last up to a decade.
>Beating the moron at his own game
You fricking, magnificent, beautiful bastard did it. I salute you.
Westeros should look like something from the Road.
I like how that whole plot thread of the decade long winter was dropped from the show and never brought up again because of how moronic it was