it was already outpaced during the one year war. Zeon's gelgoog was roughly on par with it and that's a mass produced machine. High spec ace use machines and prototypes on both sides in the final stages of the war were superior to it.
gelgoogs had already caught up to the rx78 performance and feature-wise
so just watch zeta because they're still used during that
There's two major features the rx78 misses that put it at a disadvantage; a panoramic escape-pod wienerpit and a Movable-Frame
like amusingly zeonic/anaheim couldn't get their zeta project right without the moveable-frame. It's only the fact that the feds had an internal struggle which led to the aueg stealing the mkIIs then giving one to anaheim that finally led to a successful prototype. That and a space magic autism boy taking all their data from the project + the data he remembers off by heart from his autistic homelife
Feds took credit for what Zeonic scientists and engineers did post-war*
89 has Alex rocking the panoramic wienerpit. Not sure if it doubles as an escape pod yet
I think he's making a badly-worded reference to F91 and V Gundam grunts, which had much more sophisticated beam weaponry than anything available to even the most advanced suits during the OYW
it was already outpaced during the one year war. Zeon's gelgoog was roughly on par with it and that's a mass produced machine. High spec ace use machines and prototypes on both sides in the final stages of the war were superior to it.
gelgoogs had already caught up to the rx78 performance and feature-wise
so just watch zeta because they're still used during that
There's two major features the rx78 misses that put it at a disadvantage; a panoramic escape-pod wienerpit and a Movable-Frame
I have difficulty believing the gelgoog is "just as good." The gundam is made out of bullshitium armor that can take bullets all day, whereas the gelgoog is made out of steel, hopes and dreams. You'd have to be a braindead monkey moron to pick a Gelgoog over a Gundam. Hell, you'd have to be moronic to pick a Gelgoog over a Jim, and I'm a Zeongay.
Beams don't give a shit about luna titanium armor. Bazookas are also a threat as long as you're not Amuro. The luna titanium armor on Nemos didn't let them survive direct hits from OYW vintage bazookas.
>Hell, you'd have to be moronic to pick a Gelgoog over a Jim, and I'm a Zeongay.
What sort of nonsense is this? The standard Gelgoog is better than the standard GM. What reason would a supposed zeekgay have to pick a GM over a Gelgoog?
Yeah, but I'm not facing a whole lot of beams in a Gundam, am I? The only beams I would have to worry about are from trainees in Gelgoogs who can't hit the broad side of a barn. Nine times out of ten you're up against kinetic weapons that can't scratch you. Bazookas are dangerous, yes, >The standard Gelgoog is better than the standard GM. What reason would a supposed zeekgay have to pick a GM over a Gelgoog?
I know people like to pick which mobile suit is better in a vacuum; just compare which one shoots the hardest, which one can go the fastest, which one can take the most hits, and pick that one. But this is not the case, the only vacuum that mobile suits fight in is the vacuum of space. They do not fight in the vacuum of context. Look at every conflict the Gelgoog has been involved in, in every book, manga, anime, etc. They never win; Zeon never wins. If the Zeon pilots aren't dead, it's not unlikely that they'll end up in some federation prison camp or in hiding in some god-forsaken colony.
Even if you look at the specks of both weapons, there's not much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Both have a ranged beam weapon that can destroy a mobile suit in one shot, a beam melee weapon that can also defeat most armor, and a shield that can take a few hits before being rendered . But the GM is lighter, albeit only slightly, and still has acceleration comparable to the Gundam and the Gelgoog. >then why do you like Zeon at all?
Not only does one eye look cooler then two (to me,) I also understand the design of the mechs more. I can understand making something out of steel, and giving it a 120mm machine gun. It's like a bigger version of the tanks I used to work on in the army. I cannot comprehend a beam weapon, or whatever "luna titanium alloy" is supposed to be. I also like rooting for the underdog. What makes Zeon cool is when they win in spite of being outclassed.
>But this is not the case, the only vacuum that mobile suits fight in is the vacuum of space. They do not fight in the vacuum of context. Look at every conflict the Gelgoog has been involved in, in every book, manga, anime, etc. They never win; Zeon never wins. If the Zeon pilots aren't dead, it's not unlikely that they'll end up in some federation prison camp or in hiding in some god-forsaken colony.
The OP asked about a comparison of machines from one era to another. The posts you were replying to are talking about the specs, comparing machines from opposing sides. I have no idea why you're interpreting the line of discussion as "what would I personally pick if I was transported to the UC world during the OYW with knowledge of how it plays out"?
Common practice for interwebs neckbeards with little social development to instead provide an answer for a question they would rather have been asked, than the question actually asked.
The Gelgoogs could perform at similar levels to the base Gundam, but were still lacking the particular armor the Gundam had. They also did not feature the magnetic coating upgrades that the Gundam later received via R&D on the G-3 Gundam.
By 0083 there were several suit variants like the GM Custom and Powered that could match the Gundam/Gelgoogs (armor aside). There were also several highly specialized suits like snipers and cannons that could hit much, much harder both at ranged and in melee.
Not entirely sure if the learning computer (AI) the Gundam featured was made standard for later MS, but would assume so.
All official material involving end-point stats has Gelgoog on par with Gundam
GMs were already outpaced by Doms
Gundam material was good only against tanking Zaku MGs and physical blows, bazookas and beams can frick it up easily (see: its shields getting destroyed multiple times, Amuro's death from Dom zooka in novel, Gundam getting messed up by Zeong) and Gelgoogs were going against relative equivalents of beam spray guns of lots of GMs and cannon shot spams from countless Balls
>GMs were already outpaced by Doms
Physically on the ground, maybe, but otherwise the GM overall edges out the Dom in all respects, which is especially relevant against the Rick Doms an average GM would be expected to go up against.
this is the little detail I appreciated about MSG in comparison to its peers that I feel kind of gets lost in the sauce of the "mid season upgrade" at times. It places a nice emphasis on the growth of the protagonist when the suit he starts out in is carrying him but by journey's end he's the one exceeding its capabilities as everything around him has slowly caught up to it.
'googs didn't have magnetic coating, they were less agile by default, and they were still made out of the same steel alloy that Zakus were made out of, so they'd get torn to pieces by machine guns, unlike the Gundam.
It's probably slightly better than a Hizack and would do pretty well against random shitters from the Crossbone Gundam Era where everyone forgot how to make beam weapons.
With magnetic coating update, it'd be like a low-end grunt for most of Zeta era (like Nemo, GM Quel or Hizack tier), considering that MK-II wasn't much of a step-up from it and it got outpaced quickly
Also better acceleration, more verniers for maneurability...
9 months ago
Anonymous
...better sensors, better generator...
9 months ago
Anonymous
>better generator
The Hizack began life with a shoddy reactor as a result of Anaheim's corporate frickery, it was effectively worse than some OYW era reactors despite being advertised as having 1428 kW output. Even a OYW GM or Gelgoog can be equipped with both a beam rifle and beam sabre at the same time but the Hizack wasn't really capable of that until fixed in later versions.
I certainly 'sounds' right that the Mk. II was only a modest improvement over the first Gundam, but the thing had some serious longevity. I know that shitter Jerid beat Kamille in the Mk. II with the Gabthley, but he did have another one helping him, and after that it survives till the very end of the Neo Zeon War. It holds its own against a number of 3rd and 4th generation mass production units with some pretty unremarkable pilots in it.
It does meet basic requirements to be viable in its era, but, without Super Gundam update pack, it's really lacking in non-defensive versatility even competed to Gaza machines
It survived to the end of the First Neo Zeon War because Neo Zeon pilots were legit shitters. The only time in the war it was technically better than its opposition was during the beginning when it was still fighting Gaza Cs and the Africa arc where it was dealing with African insurgents using secondhand OYW-era MS like Desert Zakus, Gelgoogs, and Dwadges, only slightly balanced out by those insurgents being more competent than their Axis counterparts.
It wouldn't have been outdated, it's just no longer cutting edge. It's still one of the better MS of the war except they keep inventing crazy new prototypes to stuff into the OYW so the Gundam is not the special snowflake it once was. It's still a decent performer and a strong opponent for any MP unit.
If OYW Zeon remnant MS could score some wins against Gryps-era MS, I don't doubt Grandpappy Gundam can give an even better account for itself, especially since Amuro was already outfighting the Zeong in it.
Amuro was already a better pilot than Char by that point in the war. It was supposed to be a role reversal where in the beginning, the veteran and more confident Char in an inferior machine was able to confound the less experienced and less confident Amuro in a superior machine. For most of the fight, Char was losing, and would have died if it weren't for Amuro not realizing that the wienerpit wasn't in the torso like all other Zeon MS, but in the head, so it's more than technically capable of tangoing with more advanced machines with a good pilot at the helm.
If Doms and other OYW MS can get a few kills on things like Nemos, the RX-78-2 is more than capable of doing the same.
>Its wienerpit was not retrofitted. >It focused on a combination of armor and mobility in a beam weapon world. >It could barely keep up with Amuro's reflexes by the end of the war even with the Magnetic Coating (whatever that is) >Was matched or surpassed by the Gelgoog in the same generation of mobile suits, but Zeon was crippled by squandering every pilot who could have made full use of it to the point that anyone who piloted died at the hands of the White Devil anyway. >The Learning Computer floated through space because spaces is lousy with the corpses of ships, mobile suits and pilots.
Honestly, I'd watch a Gundam show that is all about a group of salvagers who go through derelicts for profit and try to give any floating corpses they find their last rites.
>"Arvo! The reactor's still live, get outta there before it goes critical!" >"Crap! I gotta get out using this Dom, I hope it still works..." >"It's still intact?! We just bought our meals for the next month once we sell it!"
Woulda been cool. Instead we got a lot of homoerotic undertones (more so than usual, I mean), grimdark brutality that was needless (which, to be fair, was the point of the brutality), and an unsatisfying ending.
All I wanted from IBO was Mobile Gundam Suit: Peace Walker. The homoerotic undertones would've stayed the same and we could've gotten a happier ending. Sort of.
Frick off power level moron.
it doesn't even have a beam rifle that is pretty much a sword and a massive shield
Zeonic cope, stay mad
but feds made the frame and wienerpit anon
🙁
Damn
like amusingly zeonic/anaheim couldn't get their zeta project right without the moveable-frame. It's only the fact that the feds had an internal struggle which led to the aueg stealing the mkIIs then giving one to anaheim that finally led to a successful prototype. That and a space magic autism boy taking all their data from the project + the data he remembers off by heart from his autistic homelife
89 has Alex rocking the panoramic wienerpit. Not sure if it doubles as an escape pod yet
>Not sure if it doubles as an escape pod yet
It does not. Only Core Fighter equipped models had an escape system during the OYW.
Feds took credit for what Zeonic scientists and engineers did post-war*
resources like this are a fiction that will never exist again for people like me.
If anything it speaks volumes of Amuro Ray the White Devil/White Meteor depending on whom you ask
What?
I think he's making a badly-worded reference to F91 and V Gundam grunts, which had much more sophisticated beam weaponry than anything available to even the most advanced suits during the OYW
The bug grunts in Victory were pretty cool. I just wish Zanscare wasn't so obsessed with wheels.
it was already outpaced during the one year war. Zeon's gelgoog was roughly on par with it and that's a mass produced machine. High spec ace use machines and prototypes on both sides in the final stages of the war were superior to it.
These.
It was Amuro's growing newtype abilities that kept it in the game longer than it should have,
I have difficulty believing the gelgoog is "just as good." The gundam is made out of bullshitium armor that can take bullets all day, whereas the gelgoog is made out of steel, hopes and dreams. You'd have to be a braindead monkey moron to pick a Gelgoog over a Gundam. Hell, you'd have to be moronic to pick a Gelgoog over a Jim, and I'm a Zeongay.
Beams don't give a shit about luna titanium armor. Bazookas are also a threat as long as you're not Amuro. The luna titanium armor on Nemos didn't let them survive direct hits from OYW vintage bazookas.
>Hell, you'd have to be moronic to pick a Gelgoog over a Jim, and I'm a Zeongay.
What sort of nonsense is this? The standard Gelgoog is better than the standard GM. What reason would a supposed zeekgay have to pick a GM over a Gelgoog?
Yeah, but I'm not facing a whole lot of beams in a Gundam, am I? The only beams I would have to worry about are from trainees in Gelgoogs who can't hit the broad side of a barn. Nine times out of ten you're up against kinetic weapons that can't scratch you. Bazookas are dangerous, yes,
>The standard Gelgoog is better than the standard GM. What reason would a supposed zeekgay have to pick a GM over a Gelgoog?
I know people like to pick which mobile suit is better in a vacuum; just compare which one shoots the hardest, which one can go the fastest, which one can take the most hits, and pick that one. But this is not the case, the only vacuum that mobile suits fight in is the vacuum of space. They do not fight in the vacuum of context. Look at every conflict the Gelgoog has been involved in, in every book, manga, anime, etc. They never win; Zeon never wins. If the Zeon pilots aren't dead, it's not unlikely that they'll end up in some federation prison camp or in hiding in some god-forsaken colony.
Even if you look at the specks of both weapons, there's not much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. Both have a ranged beam weapon that can destroy a mobile suit in one shot, a beam melee weapon that can also defeat most armor, and a shield that can take a few hits before being rendered . But the GM is lighter, albeit only slightly, and still has acceleration comparable to the Gundam and the Gelgoog.
>then why do you like Zeon at all?
Not only does one eye look cooler then two (to me,) I also understand the design of the mechs more. I can understand making something out of steel, and giving it a 120mm machine gun. It's like a bigger version of the tanks I used to work on in the army. I cannot comprehend a beam weapon, or whatever "luna titanium alloy" is supposed to be. I also like rooting for the underdog. What makes Zeon cool is when they win in spite of being outclassed.
>But this is not the case, the only vacuum that mobile suits fight in is the vacuum of space. They do not fight in the vacuum of context. Look at every conflict the Gelgoog has been involved in, in every book, manga, anime, etc. They never win; Zeon never wins. If the Zeon pilots aren't dead, it's not unlikely that they'll end up in some federation prison camp or in hiding in some god-forsaken colony.
The OP asked about a comparison of machines from one era to another. The posts you were replying to are talking about the specs, comparing machines from opposing sides. I have no idea why you're interpreting the line of discussion as "what would I personally pick if I was transported to the UC world during the OYW with knowledge of how it plays out"?
Common practice for interwebs neckbeards with little social development to instead provide an answer for a question they would rather have been asked, than the question actually asked.
The Gelgoogs could perform at similar levels to the base Gundam, but were still lacking the particular armor the Gundam had. They also did not feature the magnetic coating upgrades that the Gundam later received via R&D on the G-3 Gundam.
By 0083 there were several suit variants like the GM Custom and Powered that could match the Gundam/Gelgoogs (armor aside). There were also several highly specialized suits like snipers and cannons that could hit much, much harder both at ranged and in melee.
Not entirely sure if the learning computer (AI) the Gundam featured was made standard for later MS, but would assume so.
All official material involving end-point stats has Gelgoog on par with Gundam
GMs were already outpaced by Doms
Gundam material was good only against tanking Zaku MGs and physical blows, bazookas and beams can frick it up easily (see: its shields getting destroyed multiple times, Amuro's death from Dom zooka in novel, Gundam getting messed up by Zeong) and Gelgoogs were going against relative equivalents of beam spray guns of lots of GMs and cannon shot spams from countless Balls
>Amuro's death from Dom zooka in novel
The novel Dom has a beam bazooka and beam saber as its normal weapons.
Ooh my bad
>GMs were already outpaced by Doms
Physically on the ground, maybe, but otherwise the GM overall edges out the Dom in all respects, which is especially relevant against the Rick Doms an average GM would be expected to go up against.
this is the little detail I appreciated about MSG in comparison to its peers that I feel kind of gets lost in the sauce of the "mid season upgrade" at times. It places a nice emphasis on the growth of the protagonist when the suit he starts out in is carrying him but by journey's end he's the one exceeding its capabilities as everything around him has slowly caught up to it.
gelgoogs had already caught up to the rx78 performance and feature-wise
so just watch zeta because they're still used during that
There's two major features the rx78 misses that put it at a disadvantage; a panoramic escape-pod wienerpit and a Movable-Frame
'googs didn't have magnetic coating, they were less agile by default, and they were still made out of the same steel alloy that Zakus were made out of, so they'd get torn to pieces by machine guns, unlike the Gundam.
It’s mogged by grunts in its own series
zeon does have suits that rival the rx-78 but then you have the newtype shenanigans
Aerial can destroy it easily.
It's probably slightly better than a Hizack and would do pretty well against random shitters from the Crossbone Gundam Era where everyone forgot how to make beam weapons.
>original rx-78
>posts rx-78-2
>Countless federation lives were lost for the RX-78 delay due to higher ups wanting a color scheme change, thus making the RX-78-2
I love this series
With magnetic coating update, it'd be like a low-end grunt for most of Zeta era (like Nemo, GM Quel or Hizack tier), considering that MK-II wasn't much of a step-up from it and it got outpaced quickly
hizack is barely better than the zaku.
what are you smoking.
>beam weapons
>better armor
>better generator
Maybe if you'd have compared it at least to Act Zaku...
Also
>better sensors
>better thrusters
only thing hizack has over the gundam is the panoramic wienerpit
Also better acceleration, more verniers for maneurability...
...better sensors, better generator...
>better generator
The Hizack began life with a shoddy reactor as a result of Anaheim's corporate frickery, it was effectively worse than some OYW era reactors despite being advertised as having 1428 kW output. Even a OYW GM or Gelgoog can be equipped with both a beam rifle and beam sabre at the same time but the Hizack wasn't really capable of that until fixed in later versions.
https://desuarchive.org/m/thread/21735952/#21745696
I certainly 'sounds' right that the Mk. II was only a modest improvement over the first Gundam, but the thing had some serious longevity. I know that shitter Jerid beat Kamille in the Mk. II with the Gabthley, but he did have another one helping him, and after that it survives till the very end of the Neo Zeon War. It holds its own against a number of 3rd and 4th generation mass production units with some pretty unremarkable pilots in it.
It does meet basic requirements to be viable in its era, but, without Super Gundam update pack, it's really lacking in non-defensive versatility even competed to Gaza machines
It survived to the end of the First Neo Zeon War because Neo Zeon pilots were legit shitters. The only time in the war it was technically better than its opposition was during the beginning when it was still fighting Gaza Cs and the Africa arc where it was dealing with African insurgents using secondhand OYW-era MS like Desert Zakus, Gelgoogs, and Dwadges, only slightly balanced out by those insurgents being more competent than their Axis counterparts.
Hard to say with how much of an OP pilot Amuro was. Spec-wise, it was probably outdated around the time Gelgoogs were being mass produced.
It wouldn't have been outdated, it's just no longer cutting edge. It's still one of the better MS of the war except they keep inventing crazy new prototypes to stuff into the OYW so the Gundam is not the special snowflake it once was. It's still a decent performer and a strong opponent for any MP unit.
...not that well I'd imagine
If OYW Zeon remnant MS could score some wins against Gryps-era MS, I don't doubt Grandpappy Gundam can give an even better account for itself, especially since Amuro was already outfighting the Zeong in it.
lol, what learning computer?
Amuro was already a better pilot than Char by that point in the war. It was supposed to be a role reversal where in the beginning, the veteran and more confident Char in an inferior machine was able to confound the less experienced and less confident Amuro in a superior machine. For most of the fight, Char was losing, and would have died if it weren't for Amuro not realizing that the wienerpit wasn't in the torso like all other Zeon MS, but in the head, so it's more than technically capable of tangoing with more advanced machines with a good pilot at the helm.
If Doms and other OYW MS can get a few kills on things like Nemos, the RX-78-2 is more than capable of doing the same.
It would wreck everything
>Its wienerpit was not retrofitted.
>It focused on a combination of armor and mobility in a beam weapon world.
>It could barely keep up with Amuro's reflexes by the end of the war even with the Magnetic Coating (whatever that is)
>Was matched or surpassed by the Gelgoog in the same generation of mobile suits, but Zeon was crippled by squandering every pilot who could have made full use of it to the point that anyone who piloted died at the hands of the White Devil anyway.
>The Learning Computer floated through space because spaces is lousy with the corpses of ships, mobile suits and pilots.
Honestly, I'd watch a Gundam show that is all about a group of salvagers who go through derelicts for profit and try to give any floating corpses they find their last rites.
>"Arvo! The reactor's still live, get outta there before it goes critical!"
>"Crap! I gotta get out using this Dom, I hope it still works..."
>"It's still intact?! We just bought our meals for the next month once we sell it!"
Wasn't that what everyone thought IBO was going to be?
Woulda been cool. Instead we got a lot of homoerotic undertones (more so than usual, I mean), grimdark brutality that was needless (which, to be fair, was the point of the brutality), and an unsatisfying ending.
All I wanted from IBO was Mobile Gundam Suit: Peace Walker. The homoerotic undertones would've stayed the same and we could've gotten a happier ending. Sort of.