Toriyama self inserts as Krillin, no joke. Of course he’d give himself a six foot tall blonde android waifu who can snap a Super Saiyan’s arm like a twig
>she is now stronger than a super saiyan
She is now literally hundreds of times more powerful that Frieza, THE most powerful being in the WHOLE universe just a few years earlier.
So were 16, 17, and 19, as well as Gero himself.
Remember, these are JUST robot parts inside humans. When Frieza upgraded himself with robot parts, he was barely any stronger than before.
It's not a joke, anons being a misleading piece of shit like usual. Trunks gave mai a senzu bean with his mouth because she couldn't properly chew it, Goku sees this and asks what he's doing, Vegeta assumes Goku means he's confused by the kiss, not that he's confused as to why he's giving a senzu bean with his mouth, Vegeta asks if he's ever done that with his wife before because he's married and Goku asks why would he do that or why that has anything to do with what trunks just did. Basically, Vegeta misunderstood gokus confusion. That's all.
Dumb joke in Super. Trunks fed Mai a senzu bean with his mouth, Goku said he'd never done that before (referring to giving a senzu). Vegemite thought he meant kissing and the difference was never clarified.
The art style was ugly and the animation didn't get better. The Majin saga was better because it was beautiful
>Cell saga had bad art
The art/animation is no better or worse than any of the sagas. It all looks like the same Toriyama shit what are you on about
>It all looks like the same Toriyama shit what are you on about
Frick no. Early sagas had a much grittier and organic line art with less robotic animation. It slowly got more standardized and sanitary until it looked like Pokemon by the Perfect Cell sage. The difference could be compared to the animation progression in The Simpsons.
Crybabies wanted their commedy back despite the fact theyll turn around and say Cell saga also had too much filler which was not only the best in the show but also the funniest.
In conclusion. Buu babies.
>be Worf >fight against (insert any blue barrel. literally any) >jobs >"I've never faced such a formidable opponent."
I'm sick of the bad-ass hero is a jobber trope
Of course they don't, but the Cell arc is bad even by Toriyama standards and it really shows how moronic Dragon Ball fans are that defend it.
Looking back now, Android 16 being the trigger to make Gohan go SSJ2 was stupid. These two characters just met and the series tries to make it an emotional scene. This cyborg Gohan just met is the thing that makes him unleash his power, not seeing his friends and father on the verge of death(you know the thing that triggered all his rage power ups in the previous arcs). Plus, what’s this shit about 16 telling Gohan to protect the animals he loves. Gohan was not vegetarian nature hippie. Dude had no problem killing dinosaurs and other animals, he did it with a smile on his face
This, and also the fact the Toriyama regressed him back into being a cry baby afraid of fighting like when was four. >B-B-BUT GOHAN WAS A...LE PACIFIST
No he fricking wasn't, he was a cry baby that just needed to develop some balls, and eventually did once Piccolo sacrificed himself to save him from Nappa. From that point on, Gohan does shit like return to the battlefield to fight Vegeta (after Goku told him to go home), willingly goes to Namek to find the Dragon Balls, fights the Ginyu Force, helps fight Freeza, fights Garlic Jr. (inb4 filler), and by the Trunks arc he's kicking his tutor's ass and leaving his studies to help fight mecha Freeza. He's so far removed from being a pussy/pacifist by that point.
16 was the catalyst because he was able to convince Gohan that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do for those you care about. Basically he was saying, look, I know you don't like fighting but if you don't fight everything and everyone you love is going to die. That's the trigger, not 16 getting killed. Learn to see beyond surface level.
>16 was the catalyst because he was able to convince Gohan that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do for those you care about. Basically he was saying, look, I know you don't like fighting but if you don't fight everything and everyone you love is going to die.
No it fricking isn't, it's just bad fricking writing. See above.
What? If you think I was trying to make a pun, I actually wasn't. But whatever, the fact Gohan, along with Vegeta is written stupidly in the cell saga.
Vegeta letting Cell power up was in character. He’s a bloodlusted saiyan and SSJ heightens those instincts. If Someone kind like Goku wanted Frieza to power up so he could fully test his new powers, then Vegeta would definitely do the same
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Vegeta letting Cell power up was in character
Sure, if he's a literal tard for a character who didn't learn what happened the last time he let that happen (letting 16 17 and 18 out just to beat his ass). Got it.
I mean Gohan fighting against enemies and Gohan unleashing his full unrestrained power are different pair of shoes
No it isn't. In those examples I mentioned he had full on saiyan-anger moments (like Krillin getting stabbed by Freeza) that he acted on. Gohan had become a competent, willing warrior by the Trunks and then Toriyama just rests when he trains in the Time Chamber because he can't into characterization.
watched DB and DBZ for the first time last year
>Namek saga >D
Explain
3 months ago
Anonymous
Namek is the worst part by far and Frieza is the worst villain
3 months ago
Anonymous
And why? I can see being bored by the actual fight with Freeza, but leading up to it, it's honestly great, especially early on when it's a three way fight to get the dragon balls and each side tries to screw the other over.
Looking back now, Android 16 being the trigger to make Gohan go SSJ2 was stupid. These two characters just met and the series tries to make it an emotional scene. This cyborg Gohan just met is the thing that makes him unleash his power, not seeing his friends and father on the verge of death(you know the thing that triggered all his rage power ups in the previous arcs). Plus, what’s this shit about 16 telling Gohan to protect the animals he loves. Gohan was not vegetarian nature hippie. Dude had no problem killing dinosaurs and other animals, he did it with a smile on his face
16 was the catalyst because he was able to convince Gohan that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do for those you care about. Basically he was saying, look, I know you don't like fighting but if you don't fight everything and everyone you love is going to die. That's the trigger, not 16 getting killed. Learn to see beyond surface level.
You didn't pay attention. Gohan straight up tells Cell he knows he can power up if he sees his friends getting hurt and he still doesn't want to do it because he hates fighting so Cell decided to put it to the test.
16 was just the first to go. If literally anybody died it would have had the same effect.
>and he still doesn't want to do it because he hates fighting
Speaking of not paying attention, see
Of course they don't, but the Cell arc is bad even by Toriyama standards and it really shows how moronic Dragon Ball fans are that defend it.
[...]
This, and also the fact the Toriyama regressed him back into being a cry baby afraid of fighting like when was four. >B-B-BUT GOHAN WAS A...LE PACIFIST
No he fricking wasn't, he was a cry baby that just needed to develop some balls, and eventually did once Piccolo sacrificed himself to save him from Nappa. From that point on, Gohan does shit like return to the battlefield to fight Vegeta (after Goku told him to go home), willingly goes to Namek to find the Dragon Balls, fights the Ginyu Force, helps fight Freeza, fights Garlic Jr. (inb4 filler), and by the Trunks arc he's kicking his tutor's ass and leaving his studies to help fight mecha Freeza. He's so far removed from being a pussy/pacifist by that point.
[...] >16 was the catalyst because he was able to convince Gohan that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do for those you care about. Basically he was saying, look, I know you don't like fighting but if you don't fight everything and everyone you love is going to die.
No it fricking isn't, it's just bad fricking writing. See above.
Gohan was perfectly fine with fighting. Toriyama just hit the reset button because he's a hack.
>Gohan was perfectly fine with fighting
No. No he wasn't. And I still have no idea what you're referring to when you're saying he killed a dinosaur and other animals because the dinosaur he fought he just ended up eating a piece of its tail after it tried to eat him.
>No. No he wasn't
Yes. Yes he was. >comes back to face Vegeta after Goku told him to go home; proceeds to take an ass kicking from him >goes to Namek, puts himself in danger multiple times like fighting Dodoria to save Dende, stares down Vegeta (who if he hadn't falsely believed he had all the dragon balls could've easily killed him) to hide a dragon ball, fights Guldo, gets beat to near death from Recoome, fights Ginyu (after briefly being terrified to fight him in Goku's body), and eventually helps face Freeza despite being massively overpowered by him >filler, but easily fights Garlic Jr. and only hesitates when fighting a mist-controlled Piccolo (understandable since that's a friend). Kills two of Garlic's men >immediately abandons his studies to fight Mecha Freeza and King Cold despite the odds being against him and his friends >trains and comes to help fight the androids briefly
Now where in the frick is this supposed to indicate he "hates" fighting? >no idea what you're referring to when you're saying he killed a dinosaur and other animals because the dinosaur he fought he just ended up eating a piece of its tail after it tried to eat him.
I didn't post that, but it's meant to show he's got the guts to face down something much larger than him. Earlier he would've pissed his pants and cried for his mom.
I hate washing the dishes. That doesn't mean I wont do them.
It was a tournament. He wasn't in it for the fun of fighting and even then he still fought. He just didn't go apeshit because it meant someone had to get fricked up for it to happen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I hate washing the dishes. That doesn't mean I wont do them.
So point to anywhere between the fight with Vegeta and the Androids that Gohan explicitly says to someone or to himself >I hate fighting!
Pro tip: You can't, because his actions spoke for themselves. Gohan had adjusted to being a warrior long before Cell was an idea in Toriyama's head. >He wasn't in it for the fun of fighting and even then he still fought
Neither was Piccolo, or Krillin, or Tien, or Trunks. They fought because it was the right thing to do, and that already came to Gohan naturally by the end of the Saiyan arc. Even Goku in all his dumbassery still battled because he wanted to protect Earth. >He just didn't go apeshit because it meant someone had to get fricked up for it to happen.
He was already going apeshit like when Krillin was stabbed by Freeza, and did so because he couldn't seeing a friend dead or injured.
It's obvious you haven't watched or read all of Dragon Ball, and even if you did you didn't pay attention.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>He has to openly outloud state what he's thinking or else when he says it later it's not true!
Weren't you just b***hing about the poor writing? I can't think of worse writing than just flat out spelling out somone's thoughts when it's already obvious to everyone that its true. One picked fight with Vegeta over trolling him because he thought his dad died after being bullied by Vegeta for two sagas isn't proof he's totally down to fight whenever.
And if you were paying attention I said at the start of this reply chain none of the sagas have good writing but good lord shizophrenic Gohan is not an example of it. Every event you referenced he nutted up and fought because he felt he had to for one reason or another.
When he fights cell he doesn't say he doesn't want to fight because he's scared or because fighting is wrong. He does fight but doesn't want to unleash his true power. That's it. He's not being a pacifist. He just doesn't want to lose control and kill Cell along with whatever else it may do to which of course Cell finds hilarious that Gohan thinks he can kill him and then proceeded to put it to the test by making the CellJrs.
Now quit strawmanning. We both watched and read DBZ. You're convinced it's horrible though and Toriyama is moronic and I never even disagreed. I agree to disagree about the Gohan arc though.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Weren't you just b***hing about the poor writing? I can't think of worse writing than just flat out spelling out somone's thoughts when it's already obvious to everyone that its true.
Alright, then point to examples where tries to excuse himself for fighting for some reason or another (that isn't explicitly saying "I hate fighting"). You can't. >Every event you referenced he nutted up and fought because he felt he had to for one reason or another.
Yeah, that's what's called character growth you illiterate. Moreover, oh shit, person does thing for reason? Wow what a concept, are you saying he's supposed to be some automaton who should be doing things for no reason at all?
If he were a real coward he would've found a way to get out of putting himself in danger with excuses. But he didn't, he knew that in order to put things right--bringing friends back to life, protecting his planet--he has to do the hard shit and fight people who could very likely kill him with ease. That's the profile of a courageous warrior, not a cry baby who "hates fighting", which is what he used to be when Raditz showed up at the beginning. >He does fight but doesn't want to unleash his true power. That's it. He's not being a pacifist. He just doesn't want to lose control and kill Cell along with whatever else it may do
That's another asspull excuse for Toriyama to make Gohan seem more multifaceted in that moment when Gohan didn't need to be. Like how the frick is he supposed to know what SS2 will do besides be a big power up?
But at least you admit he's not a pacifist, which is the typical excuse real morons like to use when describing Gohan's poorly written character. >I agree to disagree about the Gohan arc though.
Concession accepted
Nobody watched DBZ for the writing. Most fans deep down know the writing is inconsistent and nonsensical. It’s given a pass because of nostalgia and the kick ass fights
All kids' media - and media in general - is moronic if you actually scrutinize it. DBZ is no different. Disney movies based on fairy tales don't make any sense either. But they made sense to us when we were kids.
I unironically believe Dragon Ball does have good writing. It's not very deep, but that's likely the reason why the writing stays so solid. Plenty of other shonen try to have some kind of commentary and end up tripping over themselves or going full moron. Naruto thinking Obito is cool for example, or Itachi being looked at as some hero, or Attack on Titan's ending, or Jujutsu Kaisen trying to force this bullshit about teaching Sukuna about love. There is no moments like this in Dragon Ball, just tiny things people nitpick like the Androids being strong, ignoring Gero likely would have analyzed the battle between Super Saiyan Goku/Trunks vs Frieza and King Cold.
I’ll stand by this, SSJ2 did not need to be its own thing. It should’ve just been the peak of the first super saiyan form, the final ascension. They don’t even look that different. Constantly creating new forms is what cheapened the transformation. In the next arc, SSJ2 is kind of useless. It just gets smacked around by Buu
>here are the villains >wait not them >ok theyre on the loose and irrelevant but we got a new guy >oh he’s strong i wanna fight him when he’s stronger >ok he’s too strong we’re fricked
Was I supposed to see Vegeta going apeshit after trunks’ death as a noble moment for him? It’s this butthole’s fault in the first place since he let Cell become perfect and refused to listen to his son. Shit, he doesn’t even learn his lesson in the Buu saga and is the reason fat Buu comes back
Cell effectively wins. Time travel kind of ruins everything. Once you step into bad guys having it, they should just win. DBZ at least has the multiverse, so you can't just undo things. Cell gets a time machine to become more powerful, and does so. Then holds a "tournament" to prove his power. And it ends up being Gohan vs Cell. It's anti-climatic. Future boy, androids wipe out humanity and Cell basically just loses cause plot armor to the heroes.
Was Gohan always meant to become the most powerfull one? Because it works, cannonically, but supposedly it was going to end with Namek Saga.
Gohan knocking Garlic Jr. into a hole was in the cartoon but not in the manga. Did this happen before or after he knocked Radditz out?
Gohan's hair stand's up straight when he's fighting Furiza alone at the end of the Namek saga. Did this happen in the manga.
He finally took the throne in the cell saga, but I'd like to know if this was just a happy accident that it happened to work out canonically.
Because it was supposed to end with Goku becoming the legendary Super Saiyan, no?
only the cell games (and maybe semi-perfect Cell) were bad. The androids and imperfect Cell were great. Felt like a horror show, with more and more unexpected and threatening villains appearing with the stakes constantly being raised. Loved that shit. As much of an asspull as it might seem to some, I also like the time travel shit with Trunks too. History of Trunks was absolute kino. Talk about bleak.
Trivializes the Super Saiyan transformation by making it something that any Saiyan can achieve rather than a rare legendary event as previously established.
Trivializes the threat that was Frieza by introducing androids that are several times stronger than him, which were created by a human scientist in just a few years without any alien or supernatural resources.
Has a time travel plot that is obviously beyond Toriyama's writing skill and clearly wasn't planned, resulting in retcons and extra timelines being introduced suddenly to avoid paradoxes.
Vegeta and Bulma getting together was absolutely senseless. All justifications for this pairing came later as revisionism.
>Vegeta and Bulma getting together was absolutely senseless.
Their pairing makes perfect sense. They're both impulsive hotheads of breeding age. It's not surprising at all that they'd have a fling. The only part that doesn't make sense is them getting married and staying married. That part is bullshit.
Namek Saga had a lot of emotional plot points still, despite the ridiculous power creep. I've never seen a cartoon character bury another cartoon character with his hands on screen. Halfway across the universe. Former nemesises. One a lowly commoner and the other a Prince. There was a so much emotional stuff there. Cell Saga had better fight martial arts animation. Goku vs Cell looked really good. But I never felt emotionally invested in it.
Putting Gohan up front kept it fresh, but it was already showing its wear and tear.
I rewatched DB last week, it's so good. And I'm on Namek on DBZ, the pace is fine as of now. Currently on episode 48 and I appreciate Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta went by much quicker than I remember.
>take a teenage girl
>put robotic parts in her
>she is now stronger than a super saiyan
Toriyama self inserts as Krillin, no joke. Of course he’d give himself a six foot tall blonde android waifu who can snap a Super Saiyan’s arm like a twig
>self inserts as Krillin
>is a constant joke character that’s played for laughs
Damn, Toriyama
strongest human
18 is Vegeta's height and he is definitely not 6' tall.
vegeta is 164cm, krillin is just that short
Gero injected nanotech into her. The nanobots made her super strong.
>she is now stronger than a super saiyan
She is now literally hundreds of times more powerful that Frieza, THE most powerful being in the WHOLE universe just a few years earlier.
So were 16, 17, and 19, as well as Gero himself.
Remember, these are JUST robot parts inside humans. When Frieza upgraded himself with robot parts, he was barely any stronger than before.
>She falls in love with a 30+ year old midget.
She's perfect.
Sexy android stpeach
Bejita bros...not like thi-AAAAAAAAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEE
Literally the worst version of him. Gets strong, gets beat, mopes about it x4. That the final flash gets no-sold by a Cell Jr. adds insult to injury.
Goku never kissed is wife btw
Where does this joke come from?
It's not a joke, anons being a misleading piece of shit like usual. Trunks gave mai a senzu bean with his mouth because she couldn't properly chew it, Goku sees this and asks what he's doing, Vegeta assumes Goku means he's confused by the kiss, not that he's confused as to why he's giving a senzu bean with his mouth, Vegeta asks if he's ever done that with his wife before because he's married and Goku asks why would he do that or why that has anything to do with what trunks just did. Basically, Vegeta misunderstood gokus confusion. That's all.
Well there's no way Chichi managed to get Goku's penis inside her without getting a kiss.
he didn't and that isn't implied in the japanese version.
It’s not a joke
Dumb joke in Super. Trunks fed Mai a senzu bean with his mouth, Goku said he'd never done that before (referring to giving a senzu). Vegemite thought he meant kissing and the difference was never clarified.
>Cell saga had bad art
The art/animation is no better or worse than any of the sagas. It all looks like the same Toriyama shit what are you on about
>It all looks like the same Toriyama shit what are you on about
Frick no. Early sagas had a much grittier and organic line art with less robotic animation. It slowly got more standardized and sanitary until it looked like Pokemon by the Perfect Cell sage. The difference could be compared to the animation progression in The Simpsons.
Yeah he only kissed bulma
How did he nut inside chi chi? Multiple times even
Crybabies wanted their commedy back despite the fact theyll turn around and say Cell saga also had too much filler which was not only the best in the show but also the funniest.
In conclusion. Buu babies.
>be jobbeta
>fight against (insert anybody that matters)
>jobs
>cries
>dies
>be Worf
>fight against (insert any blue barrel. literally any)
>jobs
>"I've never faced such a formidable opponent."
I'm sick of the bad-ass hero is a jobber trope
The art style was ugly and the animation didn't get better. The Majin saga was better because it was beautiful
>gets power up
>lets big bad get stronger for a "worthwhile fight"
>gets ass kicked
>WAAAAAAAAAAAH MUH ASCENSION MUH PRIDE
>repeat
And let's not even get into the other bullshit that's poorly written. Cell arc is the biggest midwit filter, in that if you like you're a moron.
>pretending any of the sagas have great writing
You don't actually like DBZ
Of course they don't, but the Cell arc is bad even by Toriyama standards and it really shows how moronic Dragon Ball fans are that defend it.
This, and also the fact the Toriyama regressed him back into being a cry baby afraid of fighting like when was four.
>B-B-BUT GOHAN WAS A...LE PACIFIST
No he fricking wasn't, he was a cry baby that just needed to develop some balls, and eventually did once Piccolo sacrificed himself to save him from Nappa. From that point on, Gohan does shit like return to the battlefield to fight Vegeta (after Goku told him to go home), willingly goes to Namek to find the Dragon Balls, fights the Ginyu Force, helps fight Freeza, fights Garlic Jr. (inb4 filler), and by the Trunks arc he's kicking his tutor's ass and leaving his studies to help fight mecha Freeza. He's so far removed from being a pussy/pacifist by that point.
>16 was the catalyst because he was able to convince Gohan that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do for those you care about. Basically he was saying, look, I know you don't like fighting but if you don't fight everything and everyone you love is going to die.
No it fricking isn't, it's just bad fricking writing. See above.
>He just had to grow some balls
Okay so you're one of THOSE people.
What? If you think I was trying to make a pun, I actually wasn't. But whatever, the fact Gohan, along with Vegeta is written stupidly in the cell saga.
Vegeta letting Cell power up was in character. He’s a bloodlusted saiyan and SSJ heightens those instincts. If Someone kind like Goku wanted Frieza to power up so he could fully test his new powers, then Vegeta would definitely do the same
>Vegeta letting Cell power up was in character
Sure, if he's a literal tard for a character who didn't learn what happened the last time he let that happen (letting 16 17 and 18 out just to beat his ass). Got it.
No it isn't. In those examples I mentioned he had full on saiyan-anger moments (like Krillin getting stabbed by Freeza) that he acted on. Gohan had become a competent, willing warrior by the Trunks and then Toriyama just rests when he trains in the Time Chamber because he can't into characterization.
>Namek saga
>D
Explain
Namek is the worst part by far and Frieza is the worst villain
And why? I can see being bored by the actual fight with Freeza, but leading up to it, it's honestly great, especially early on when it's a three way fight to get the dragon balls and each side tries to screw the other over.
I mean Gohan fighting against enemies and Gohan unleashing his full unrestrained power are different pair of shoes
The Imperfect Cell/Android saga was absolute kino. Goes to shit the moment Cell kills two of the androids and goes into his second form
Looking back now, Android 16 being the trigger to make Gohan go SSJ2 was stupid. These two characters just met and the series tries to make it an emotional scene. This cyborg Gohan just met is the thing that makes him unleash his power, not seeing his friends and father on the verge of death(you know the thing that triggered all his rage power ups in the previous arcs). Plus, what’s this shit about 16 telling Gohan to protect the animals he loves. Gohan was not vegetarian nature hippie. Dude had no problem killing dinosaurs and other animals, he did it with a smile on his face
16 was the catalyst because he was able to convince Gohan that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do for those you care about. Basically he was saying, look, I know you don't like fighting but if you don't fight everything and everyone you love is going to die. That's the trigger, not 16 getting killed. Learn to see beyond surface level.
You didn't pay attention. Gohan straight up tells Cell he knows he can power up if he sees his friends getting hurt and he still doesn't want to do it because he hates fighting so Cell decided to put it to the test.
16 was just the first to go. If literally anybody died it would have had the same effect.
>and he still doesn't want to do it because he hates fighting
Speaking of not paying attention, see
Gohan was perfectly fine with fighting. Toriyama just hit the reset button because he's a hack.
>Gohan was perfectly fine with fighting
No. No he wasn't. And I still have no idea what you're referring to when you're saying he killed a dinosaur and other animals because the dinosaur he fought he just ended up eating a piece of its tail after it tried to eat him.
>No. No he wasn't
Yes. Yes he was.
>comes back to face Vegeta after Goku told him to go home; proceeds to take an ass kicking from him
>goes to Namek, puts himself in danger multiple times like fighting Dodoria to save Dende, stares down Vegeta (who if he hadn't falsely believed he had all the dragon balls could've easily killed him) to hide a dragon ball, fights Guldo, gets beat to near death from Recoome, fights Ginyu (after briefly being terrified to fight him in Goku's body), and eventually helps face Freeza despite being massively overpowered by him
>filler, but easily fights Garlic Jr. and only hesitates when fighting a mist-controlled Piccolo (understandable since that's a friend). Kills two of Garlic's men
>immediately abandons his studies to fight Mecha Freeza and King Cold despite the odds being against him and his friends
>trains and comes to help fight the androids briefly
Now where in the frick is this supposed to indicate he "hates" fighting?
>no idea what you're referring to when you're saying he killed a dinosaur and other animals because the dinosaur he fought he just ended up eating a piece of its tail after it tried to eat him.
I didn't post that, but it's meant to show he's got the guts to face down something much larger than him. Earlier he would've pissed his pants and cried for his mom.
I hate washing the dishes. That doesn't mean I wont do them.
It was a tournament. He wasn't in it for the fun of fighting and even then he still fought. He just didn't go apeshit because it meant someone had to get fricked up for it to happen.
>I hate washing the dishes. That doesn't mean I wont do them.
So point to anywhere between the fight with Vegeta and the Androids that Gohan explicitly says to someone or to himself
>I hate fighting!
Pro tip: You can't, because his actions spoke for themselves. Gohan had adjusted to being a warrior long before Cell was an idea in Toriyama's head.
>He wasn't in it for the fun of fighting and even then he still fought
Neither was Piccolo, or Krillin, or Tien, or Trunks. They fought because it was the right thing to do, and that already came to Gohan naturally by the end of the Saiyan arc. Even Goku in all his dumbassery still battled because he wanted to protect Earth.
>He just didn't go apeshit because it meant someone had to get fricked up for it to happen.
He was already going apeshit like when Krillin was stabbed by Freeza, and did so because he couldn't seeing a friend dead or injured.
It's obvious you haven't watched or read all of Dragon Ball, and even if you did you didn't pay attention.
>He has to openly outloud state what he's thinking or else when he says it later it's not true!
Weren't you just b***hing about the poor writing? I can't think of worse writing than just flat out spelling out somone's thoughts when it's already obvious to everyone that its true. One picked fight with Vegeta over trolling him because he thought his dad died after being bullied by Vegeta for two sagas isn't proof he's totally down to fight whenever.
And if you were paying attention I said at the start of this reply chain none of the sagas have good writing but good lord shizophrenic Gohan is not an example of it. Every event you referenced he nutted up and fought because he felt he had to for one reason or another.
When he fights cell he doesn't say he doesn't want to fight because he's scared or because fighting is wrong. He does fight but doesn't want to unleash his true power. That's it. He's not being a pacifist. He just doesn't want to lose control and kill Cell along with whatever else it may do to which of course Cell finds hilarious that Gohan thinks he can kill him and then proceeded to put it to the test by making the CellJrs.
Now quit strawmanning. We both watched and read DBZ. You're convinced it's horrible though and Toriyama is moronic and I never even disagreed. I agree to disagree about the Gohan arc though.
>Weren't you just b***hing about the poor writing? I can't think of worse writing than just flat out spelling out somone's thoughts when it's already obvious to everyone that its true.
Alright, then point to examples where tries to excuse himself for fighting for some reason or another (that isn't explicitly saying "I hate fighting"). You can't.
>Every event you referenced he nutted up and fought because he felt he had to for one reason or another.
Yeah, that's what's called character growth you illiterate. Moreover, oh shit, person does thing for reason? Wow what a concept, are you saying he's supposed to be some automaton who should be doing things for no reason at all?
If he were a real coward he would've found a way to get out of putting himself in danger with excuses. But he didn't, he knew that in order to put things right--bringing friends back to life, protecting his planet--he has to do the hard shit and fight people who could very likely kill him with ease. That's the profile of a courageous warrior, not a cry baby who "hates fighting", which is what he used to be when Raditz showed up at the beginning.
>He does fight but doesn't want to unleash his true power. That's it. He's not being a pacifist. He just doesn't want to lose control and kill Cell along with whatever else it may do
That's another asspull excuse for Toriyama to make Gohan seem more multifaceted in that moment when Gohan didn't need to be. Like how the frick is he supposed to know what SS2 will do besides be a big power up?
But at least you admit he's not a pacifist, which is the typical excuse real morons like to use when describing Gohan's poorly written character.
>I agree to disagree about the Gohan arc though.
Concession accepted
Nobody watched DBZ for the writing. Most fans deep down know the writing is inconsistent and nonsensical. It’s given a pass because of nostalgia and the kick ass fights
All kids' media - and media in general - is moronic if you actually scrutinize it. DBZ is no different. Disney movies based on fairy tales don't make any sense either. But they made sense to us when we were kids.
I unironically believe Dragon Ball does have good writing. It's not very deep, but that's likely the reason why the writing stays so solid. Plenty of other shonen try to have some kind of commentary and end up tripping over themselves or going full moron. Naruto thinking Obito is cool for example, or Itachi being looked at as some hero, or Attack on Titan's ending, or Jujutsu Kaisen trying to force this bullshit about teaching Sukuna about love. There is no moments like this in Dragon Ball, just tiny things people nitpick like the Androids being strong, ignoring Gero likely would have analyzed the battle between Super Saiyan Goku/Trunks vs Frieza and King Cold.
have a nice day
watched DB and DBZ for the first time last year
>red ribbon and baba that low
Are you fricking serious?
>Red Ribbon and Baba bottom tier
Opinion disregarded.
>ginyu saga that low
pathetic
Namek and Saiyans are filler, Cell is actual DBZ, Buu is an instant skip, Super is equal to Cell.
no one with a brain thinks that
Your taste is absolute shit, and you should have a nice day.
https://tiermaker.com/create/dragon-ball-arcs---sagas-db-dbz-dbgt-dbs-1094484
Frieza/namek just had way too much filler/went on way too long for me to put it into S tier
No one is impressed by you pretending to like the worst parts of the pedo prequel
>Tien B tier
Best tournament in Dragonball. Piccolo Jr. felt like all the bad parts of Z.
>Baba that low despite Goku getting to meet Gohan again is an actual tearjerker and really really well done
>saga
>saga
>saga
>saga
>saga
have a nice day.
I’ll stand by this, SSJ2 did not need to be its own thing. It should’ve just been the peak of the first super saiyan form, the final ascension. They don’t even look that different. Constantly creating new forms is what cheapened the transformation. In the next arc, SSJ2 is kind of useless. It just gets smacked around by Buu
>Cell Saga bad
Only morons say this, it's great.
>here are the villains
>wait not them
>ok theyre on the loose and irrelevant but we got a new guy
>oh he’s strong i wanna fight him when he’s stronger
>ok he’s too strong we’re fricked
Was I supposed to see Vegeta going apeshit after trunks’ death as a noble moment for him? It’s this butthole’s fault in the first place since he let Cell become perfect and refused to listen to his son. Shit, he doesn’t even learn his lesson in the Buu saga and is the reason fat Buu comes back
Cell effectively wins. Time travel kind of ruins everything. Once you step into bad guys having it, they should just win. DBZ at least has the multiverse, so you can't just undo things. Cell gets a time machine to become more powerful, and does so. Then holds a "tournament" to prove his power. And it ends up being Gohan vs Cell. It's anti-climatic. Future boy, androids wipe out humanity and Cell basically just loses cause plot armor to the heroes.
Was Gohan always meant to become the most powerfull one? Because it works, cannonically, but supposedly it was going to end with Namek Saga.
Gohan knocking Garlic Jr. into a hole was in the cartoon but not in the manga. Did this happen before or after he knocked Radditz out?
Gohan's hair stand's up straight when he's fighting Furiza alone at the end of the Namek saga. Did this happen in the manga.
He finally took the throne in the cell saga, but I'd like to know if this was just a happy accident that it happened to work out canonically.
Because it was supposed to end with Goku becoming the legendary Super Saiyan, no?
Name one time Vegeta isn't kino
All of Super.
only the cell games (and maybe semi-perfect Cell) were bad. The androids and imperfect Cell were great. Felt like a horror show, with more and more unexpected and threatening villains appearing with the stakes constantly being raised. Loved that shit. As much of an asspull as it might seem to some, I also like the time travel shit with Trunks too. History of Trunks was absolute kino. Talk about bleak.
>Felt like a horror show
the intro to cell with all the clothes on the floor in the empty city was peak atmospheric bone chilling kino unironically
Agreed.
Trivializes the Super Saiyan transformation by making it something that any Saiyan can achieve rather than a rare legendary event as previously established.
Trivializes the threat that was Frieza by introducing androids that are several times stronger than him, which were created by a human scientist in just a few years without any alien or supernatural resources.
Has a time travel plot that is obviously beyond Toriyama's writing skill and clearly wasn't planned, resulting in retcons and extra timelines being introduced suddenly to avoid paradoxes.
Vegeta and Bulma getting together was absolutely senseless. All justifications for this pairing came later as revisionism.
>Vegeta and Bulma getting together was absolutely senseless.
Their pairing makes perfect sense. They're both impulsive hotheads of breeding age. It's not surprising at all that they'd have a fling. The only part that doesn't make sense is them getting married and staying married. That part is bullshit.
Namek Saga had a lot of emotional plot points still, despite the ridiculous power creep. I've never seen a cartoon character bury another cartoon character with his hands on screen. Halfway across the universe. Former nemesises. One a lowly commoner and the other a Prince. There was a so much emotional stuff there. Cell Saga had better fight martial arts animation. Goku vs Cell looked really good. But I never felt emotionally invested in it.
Putting Gohan up front kept it fresh, but it was already showing its wear and tear.
Super Vegeta is the peak of art.
as a once hardcore DBZ fan,
DB is kino, DBZ is shit. So boring. So terribly paced.
>So boring. So terribly paced.
Yeah that's everything after Pilaf and before Piccolo
I rewatched DB last week, it's so good. And I'm on Namek on DBZ, the pace is fine as of now. Currently on episode 48 and I appreciate Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta went by much quicker than I remember.