Part of the problem is they don’t pay creators enough already, shit DC wants new editors with 5-10 years experience for 40K a year. Comics cannot be cheaper.
>get rid of color
And whats 4.99 would still cost 3.99 >sell in grocery stores
They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth” >print anthologies
Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue >go digital
Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
Nothing you say escapes the reality that, like all things, costs go up and price points follow.
What costs went up exactly? I think that's the problem here were is the money going? To executives and shareholders and marketing or to the people making the comics?
The cost of living, which means creators need more, which means every single part of the production line went up.
Please answer these genuinely: are you in America? Are you over the age of fifteen? If yes to both, are you sincerely autistic?
You can’t possibly need to ask the question “What costs went up exactly” if you’re not a fricking 12 year old or moronic and a complete and total dependent on your parents.
Nta, but it sounds like the solution is to move operations to areas with a lower cost of living, and utilize modern, electronic communication to it's fullest extent. There's no need to use conventional offices for the vast majority of white collar work these days, let alone having these offices in some of the most expensive parts of the country.
>Nta, but it sounds like the solution is to move operations to areas with a lower cost of living, and utilize modern, electronic communication to it's fullest extent
You’d be moving out of the country which then increases shipping capability and costs.
You sound like a third worlder looking to leach production now. They already outsource much of the art to foreigners for this reason.
As seen from DC’s recent job postings they aren’t even paying up to the cost of living in the Burbank area so that’s a non-issue
>third worlder looking to leach production
I'm an American, dude. It's just that I live in a rural area. Speaking of that, just moving out there and decentralizing would help a lot with costs. >inb4 shipping expenses
Fricktons of stuff gets produced out where I'm at and shipped elsewhere all the time, and it's working just fine.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Rural areas don’t get much corporate migration because you lack the infrastructure. Housing costs aren’t anywhere near the same as operational ones.
40k ain't bad for sitting on your ass all day.
Likely the same hick in this reply so it makes sense this would be your takeaway
3 months ago
Anonymous
>lack the infrastructure
Bruh, I live in close proximity to both an expressway and a commercially navigable river, what do you mean by "lack of infrastructure"?
3 months ago
Anonymous
What's your problem, wienersucker? Considering what editors do, why do they deserve more money for sitting on their ass and then give some awful suggestions to the script or artists?
3 months ago
Anonymous
They “deserve” more money because the cost of living went up. Same reason moronic burger flippers deserve a bump and even more moronic gas station attendants do.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Nta, but you never answered my question as to what the hell you mean by "lack of infrastructure".
3 months ago
Anonymous
He's a commiefornitard afraid that even more people will leave his state and leave him to be torn apart by the savages. The fact that he's trying to push "muh flyover country" when the scamdemic proved that so long as you have an internet connection you can be parked out in bumfrickistan and as long as your work is done and at the same high quality, you can draw it up in a Jamaica shack parked next to avocado trees and sea breezes. Everybody fricking wins in that scenario except for the executive who's left worrying about his rising mortgage rates, which is why they seethe so much over work-at-home.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's around the average except you don't even need to leave the house. You could even get a second job and be really well off.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>It's around the average except you don't even need to leave the house
The job listings are on-site in Burbank.
You clean the washroom yet cletus? How about shoveling the shit from the horse stalls next?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Why? You need to be in an office to review shit online?
3 months ago
Anonymous
40k ain't bad for sitting on your ass all day.
>third worlder looking to leach production
I'm an American, dude. It's just that I live in a rural area. Speaking of that, just moving out there and decentralizing would help a lot with costs. >inb4 shipping expenses
Fricktons of stuff gets produced out where I'm at and shipped elsewhere all the time, and it's working just fine.
I bet you call people city slickers if they’re wearing pants with no stains on them huh?
3 months ago
Anonymous
I bet you think that literally everyone outside of urban areas are either farmers or miners.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I bet you think you're a genius for writing people in their underwear punching each other. But you're not. You're a moron.
All the more reason to question if all the peope involved in the production of one comic are necessary. There is usually a writer and an illustrator that's 2 people more people involved will mean more money spent.
Maybe if you take your pills and take a deep breath before throwing a fit next time you will be able to follow simple reasoning
What costs went up exactly? I think that's the problem here were is the money going? To executives and shareholders and marketing or to the people making the comics?
>it’s executives and stocks!!
Jfc go back to your fricking Coyote v Acme threads you 12 year old samegayging communist. Nothing you’re saying is germane to the topic at hand.
Oh this should be good. Give me a few paragraphs on the subject kid. What do “stock dividends” have to do with comic prices. Most of the companies aren’t even publicly traded. The big 2 are subsidiaries of companies so big the the budgets of entire comics divisions are a mere line item holders don’t even notice.
Comics used to sell in the millions so companies could negotiate a much lower unit cost with printers. That’s one benefit of having an industry run by cranky old israelites and wops. The milkshake types aren’t negotiating shit.
THESE ARE COMIC COMPANIES! THERE ARE NO "SHAREHOLDERS AND MARKETERS" AND THE "EXECUTIVES" ARE DISNEY/WB PEOPLE WHOSE SALARIES AREN'T FROM THE COMIC DIVISION!
Sure if you factor in being propped up by licensing money and corporate parents. But if you’re talking about comics as a viable business, that’s over with.
I’m not factoring those in because they aren’t propped up. If you’ve ever worked in a corporation you’d understand how interdepartmental money budgets work. Warner owns HB (space ghost) Warner owns Thundercats, dynamite licensing money went to Warner not DC.
>small industry that isn't obsessed with growth
LMAO both the Big 2 are glorified R&D divisions of humongous conglomerates obsessed with squeezing every drop of money out of the characters. It's only a matter of years before Marvel outsources and licenses all comic production old and new, if not close shop entirely.
there are very very pure black and white printers in the comic industry, everything is already setup for color and the cost of ink isn't much different, once everything is going it effectively costs the same for black and white as it does color, the only major factor being 1 less artist on the production side.
>40K a year
I live in Pooristan, they should hire me as a writer and I'll do a better job and I pay more in taxes too but that's good money for Pooristan.
And yet you don't constantly hear the mangaka b***hing about being underpaid but you constantly see the people working in american comics crying about it (and even in this very thread people are saying working in comics is basically slave labor considering the shit pay).
Because Japanese are "profession" i.e. they hold it in until they kill themselves. Wages in Japan are shit as well. It's more or less the same: People who make money make a ton, people who don't can never retired.
So... americans are lazy, talentless and full of themselves? that's the reason? Ok.
3 months ago
Anonymous
More on the lines that the Americans who weren't "lazy, talentless, and full of themselves" got jobs elsewhere. Video Games in particular comes to mind.
3 months ago
Anonymous
ah yes, videogames, the other industry that pays like fricking shit, where a software developer could make 4-5x at entry level compared to games but they suck so much at their job gaming is all they could get work with, or in cases like blizzard, it was people's dreams to work there so they pay them like shit and exploit them till they frick off entirely and then pick the next person who is starry eyed and wants to work at their dream company. real fricking good comparison.
Cost of living is absurd in America compared to Japan, 30 percent higher. They also don’t have 100L people flowing through the border monthlydriving down wages.
the japanese for the most part, if I remember right, own their intellectual property, a mangaka dies, they don't send what they were working on off to another person with few exceptions, they arent mindlessly working on someone else's work, every book sale they get a cut, every merch sale they get a cut, every deal they make they get a cut. there are some adaptations, there are some people who piggyback of other works on contract, but the vast majority are working on their own ip, and while they do slave away at it, they are paid for the work on a per page basis.
They don't own them but you don't usually see continuations because that's simply not the japanese way, americans always drive things into the ground, not just comics but tv shows or movie franchises too.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The standard is a shared copyright unless the work was specifically contracted out.
Basically neither party has total control unless there is a buyout of the rights.
Also false. The "manga is outselling American comics in America" nonsense comes from people counting only trades and ignoring floppy sales. Both are a niche in America.
It's hard to count floppy sales when no one releases them anymore.
People use Bookscan because they're literally the only actual numbers we get, with floppies your best bet was estimates, and even those stopped being released 2 years ago.
This is a bullshit mindset. Comics are in trouble and need to be fixed, and throwing up your hands and saying there's no way to fix it is why nobody reads comics.
comics dont sell
hires cheaper workers
comics sell less
hires cheaper workers,
comics sell less
hires activists who will live 8 people to a studio apartment with bedbugs so long as they can get the 'message' out
comics sell even less and crippled their image in the process
gg, comics are effectively dead and the only way to go forward is exploiting old work.
How come Todd and the Image people can get away with selling comics for $2.99-$3.99 with better quality packaging (cardstock covers, slick pages) but Marvel and DC have to sell at a $4.99 price point with terrible quality packaging (covers feel like tissue paper, pages are essentially newsprint)?
Because Image Comics runs a tight ship. If you get a comic published by Image, you don't see a penny if the comic doesn't make its money back. Image will eat a loss without sending you a bill but that also means you made no money.
That doesn’t really answer my question tho. Independent publishers who don’t have the backing of multi-billion dollar companies are able to sell a better quality product for 33% less than the biggest publishers in the industry who do have that backing. I don’t understand it.
>They don't have corporate bloat
That point went completely over my head in your last post, sorry Anon I’m diagnosed-moronic please bear with me. But yeah that makes sense. I remember when comics made the jump from 2.99 to 3.99 and someone at Marvel was basically like “we tested out $3.99 books to see if people would buy them, they did, so we’re making all our books that price now ‘cause we can”
3 months ago
Anonymous
Name the last image comic that was 2.99. I’ll wait
3 months ago
Anonymous
Spawn and all Spawn adjacent books are $2.99. Saga was $2.99 before the last hiatus.
The creators cover the costs and when the sales aren't great they just stop doing it, it's why you have a lot of abandoned stuff at 6 issues or a lot of announced shit that never came out.
Manga is read by a demographic that:
A.) Traditionally read this stuff online to begin with
B.) Don't mind paying $3-5 a month for weekly uploads of content they'd have to pay $10 or more every few months for a couple of chapters
>They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth”
This is true so long as you pretend that Archie doesn't exist.
Part of the reason Archie works in grocery stores is that it's perceived as "safe" by grandmas and the like. Anything you sell in that environment is also going to have to have the same veneer of kid-friendliness, even if it's all bullshit inside. There are titles that could make it, like Disney or other comics based on kids' shows like Adventure Time and so forth. But Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, and Image (especially Image) aren't going to pass the Mom Test.
Is this an American only thing?
I remember seeing racks full of Marvel, DC, the Walking Dead and other titles in a Walmart when I was working in tacoland.
Part of the reason Archie works in grocery stores is that it's perceived as "safe" by grandmas and the like. Anything you sell in that environment is also going to have to have the same veneer of kid-friendliness, even if it's all bullshit inside. There are titles that could make it, like Disney or other comics based on kids' shows like Adventure Time and so forth. But Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, and Image (especially Image) aren't going to pass the Mom Test.
Wal Mart employee here.
I don't think we've ever sold a copy of Archie. We keep stocking it because "that's how things have always been done" and no one's willing to make the first effort to change it. Also, Archie refunds ALL costs including shipping and handling and postage if you send back the unsold copies. So even though we probably haven't sold a copy in years, we've lost $0.00 on it.
Most of the time we don't have unsold video games. Unlike comics, there is MASSIVE demand for games. They FLY off shelves.
As for movies, they just kind of sit forever until somebody buys them. IF anything gets tossed then I don't know about it because that's not my department. I'd guess that the same people that throw out damaged clothes and expired food would handle that, but I've never bothered asking what's done with unsold media after a certain amount of time or if there even is a policy for that.
>>go digital >Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
going digital is an accessibility fix, not a cost one
make it a netflix model, get everything for one cost, its better to have someone read hundreds of comics than never get a single sale from them as long as the bandwidth cost is covered.
Glad someone got this out of the way at the start. I'm sick and fricking tired of sjw apologists coming into "LE COMICS ARE LE DOOMED" threads and posting their "brilliant ideas" that don't actually work in reality.
>They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth”
Ignoring the moronation of the comparison on multiple levels, this is and has always been a cope and lie from the industry. Stores will sell them, I bought a multi-pack of DC issues last week for a laugh in a walmart check out, but said grab bag random backstock issues are all they carry in the US.
In other countries stores carry them without complaint in better format than "Here's 3-4 random issues in a package".
>Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue
So go back to newsprint like people have been suggesting for decades?
comics could easily be cheaper if they actually sold.
>get rid of color
that takes out 1 artist (they usually have pencils, inker, and colorist) so it would make them cheaper, it would also allow them to be produced faster as well
>sell in grocery stores
this would have worked back with the begining and mid mcu hitting mainstream, but now, they want weekly turnover, but a gasstation, they could have a comic rack, take up very little space, and a few issues could sit for a long time, if they dont sell, refund whatever whole sale cost is (beyond material to print) and have them fire sale issues. if that still doesnt sell, refund everything and have them ship out the comics potentially with an Amazon deal, and just 1 or more into packages from amazon that are large enough to fit, its a shot gun approach, but odds are some people will get into them.
>Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue
it does if the comics actually fricking sold, see jump
>Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
you give out a shit service in a shit way with shit storys that no one gives a frick about. when iron man was popular, he was dead in the comics, replaced by ironheart. thor? jane forster...
digital isn't a failure for sales, the comics themselves are not what the audience wants, and they hire people to make stories who want to do their damndest to subvert popular heros.
>Nothing you say escapes the reality that, like all things, costs go up and price points follow.
cost goes up because sales go down and the people who still buy get gouged. if your story was worth reading, digital would remove cost to print, but how long ago was the last comic to be worth it? if I remember right didnt a hulk go on for almost a year before mask of agenda got pushed in it? who would get into a comic now that they know even if its good now, it may not be before the story ends?
Tankobons are an objectively superior format to comic floppies, in terms of cost-effectiveness, content, storability, how they look on shelves, literally everything.
Why are you trying to 'sell' digital comics instead of focusing on the Netflix/Hulu model of selling bulk access to a catalog?
Or going full ad-supported?
Trying to sell individual issues is moronic. It will never work in an American context where people expect a pay-once-get-everything type model.
>6 bucks a pop now ,then there's what I'm getting for the money, 32 pages of some shithead nu-writer's agenda?
This is the problem. Considering the price of everything else I wouldn't mind paying $10 for my favorite comic, but I don't have any favorite comics anymore because they're all made by latinx troonys with pink hair and mental health issues preaching the woke gospel for ESGbux.
a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Comics should take note of how manga handles things and make breezier pages. This would make it far easier to read. So many dialogue heavy pages could just be 2-3 pages(or more even)
>a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Manga has more art and less text. Because manga artists understand that it's a visual medium. While American artists feel the need to write as much dialogue as possible. It's basically cheap padding that slows the story down.
Even art wise a lot of manga will go with pages of talking heads or minimal art. Extravagant pages are kept for big moments. American pages feel very stuffed.
[...]
Americans talking about manga are moronic. The only shit you get in America is second hand releases of already successful manga.
Most manga, especially non-shonen, sell less than most comics and most of the manga you homosexuals read is for free online.
I can randomly browse raw scans of other genres and still arrive at the same thesis.
>American pages feel very stuffed.
You're full of shit. American comics have the problem where fricking nothing happens in any given issue, so that they can stall and stall to keep people buying issues.
>. American comics have the problem where fricking nothing happens in any given issue, so that they can stall and stall to keep people buying issues.
That's a writing problem. Nothing will happen but it still feels like overstuffed dialogue and clumsy pages.
Not really. Despite the hype of “different genres” they are painfully repetitive
They only caught on in America as the general literacy rate has dropped.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>general literacy rate has dropped.
Considering that most american comic readers were reading the exact same repetitive capeshit before manga became popular I doubt literacy has anything to do with it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>They only caught on in America as the general literacy rate has dropped.
Then may I ask why manga seems have such a large following in other countries like France?
3 months ago
Anonymous
France already has a pretty good comic industry, so adding manga into the mix was just adding another option into book stores and such
3 months ago
Anonymous
We could say that the rate dropped in france too. But that would be too easy.
Manga is mich more flashy. Kinda like Jack Kirby or Steranko were in the past. Thats why Joe Madureira or J. Scott Campbell became superstars.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Dont forget that the west only get the good stuff but the average Manga is not very good or give you enough for your money.
3 months ago
Anonymous
there was a point I was reading every single thing that hit the internet in raw format... you are fricking moronic.
what we get thats translated is the shit that hits the widest audience. do you think we are getting the niche shit about farming or fishing? they exist because they sell enough coppies to exist.
golgo 13, one of the longer running one, with 209 volumes, being ongoing since the late 60's never made it to the west, but it was selling enough for long enough that it kept going.
do you think we are getting the manga about a mountain god snake woman who interacts with children? fricking great manga but its so niche that how many people in the manga niche would read it in large enough volume to license it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>America is illiterate
That explains why they buy manga. Nothing boobs and nudity.
3 months ago
Anonymous
There you go. Superheroes need to show boobs and say "frick".
I say axe all DC/Marvel titles as they serve no purpose. People don't read them and just watch the movies.
Then create new titles all about boobs and nudity. DC now means D-Cups.
3 months ago
DoctorGreen
>America's general literacy rate has dropped
>America is illiterate
That explains why they buy manga. Nothing boobs and nudity.
that's not the "owned" you guys think it is.
If America has become illiterate so have their comics.
3 months ago
Anonymous
But Americans do buy manga. That's not about being "owned". It's stating a fact. Sex sells.
3 months ago
DoctorGreen
yes, they do.
but
>America is illiterate
That explains why they buy manga. Nothing boobs and nudity.
is illiterate >That explains why they buy manga
it's merely a non-sequitur
gringos are pushed away from their comics because comic writers are moronic
comics may have no sex appeal to you because comic writers were moronic enough to include preaching goblinos in their comics
sex appeal mirrors the intelligence, anon
3 months ago
Anonymous
>sex appeal mirrors the intelligence, anon
do you want to spend your time reading a story about several ugly fricks or if all else was equal, would you rather read the story where the main characters were at least nice to look at?
3 months ago
Anonymous
If literacy rates were the problem, we would see a general decline in all books sold. We have not. Book sales have been growing since 2012, with a dip in 2021-2022, when covid restrictions led to outsized growth across all home media.
Global manga sales minus Japan are also in line with global literacy rates, which have gone up.
All that aside, one of the scary things about US literacy rates is that our stats would be much worse without the proliferation of social media. Kids were forced to learn to read to interact online. Make of that what you will.
3 months ago
DoctorGreen
>All that aside, one of the scary things about US literacy rates is that our stats would be much worse without the proliferation of social media. Kids were forced to learn to read to interact online. Make of that what you will.
interesting
3 months ago
Anonymous
You're an idiot. You don't even know how to read statistics.
3 months ago
Anonymous
the younger generations are absolutely fricked if what's going on in schools is to be believed by people who tell us.
general education kids behaving worse and learning at worse rates than special ed/morons.
3 months ago
Anonymous
pre social media, I learned to read because of nintendo power and videogames, always constantly ahead of the rest of the class in reading comprehension but failed miserably at writing because our grammar is fricking moronic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's the thing, if we want kids to read, we need to regularly and proactively give them something they would want to read. PS are generally very slow to embrace things that would fit kids' interests. Lately, the only time anyone cares about reading material seems to be when teachers are personally pushing an agenda.
Social media, manga, Harry Potter, and even text-heavy video games have done more to incentivize reading than our schools, I'd reckon. Back in my day when the local school was still pretty good, they actually had comics reading time. Boxes full of comics, either donated by Marvel or retailers, get plopped on the floor, and it worked. Fun times were had. I don't know if they do that anymore.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Not really
Always funny seeing amerilards cope like this. Your tears are delicious.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Tears or not, he's not wrong.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>hype of “different genres” >They only caught on in America as the general literacy rate has dropped
>a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Manga has more art and less text. Because manga artists understand that it's a visual medium. While American artists feel the need to write as much dialogue as possible. It's basically cheap padding that slows the story down.
Americans talking about manga are moronic. The only shit you get in America is second hand releases of already successful manga.
Most manga, especially non-shonen, sell less than most comics and most of the manga you homosexuals read is for free online.
last time I looked at numbers, anything below top 20 was sub 10k if not sub 5k, there isnt a manga in japan that sells that bad outside of doujinshi that is made in an ongoing series.
>a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Do they? Do capeshit comics still follow the 9 grid format with never ending speech bubbles?I haven't read them in a long as while so that's why I am asking.
>Do capeshit comics still follow the 9 grid format with never ending speech bubbles
This was never the norm you fricking casual. People like moore using it was for specific effect. King does it because he wants to be like moore. Jfc have a nice day
Part of the problem is they don’t pay creators enough already, shit DC wants new editors with 5-10 years experience for 40K a year. Comics cannot be cheaper.
>get rid of color
And whats 4.99 would still cost 3.99 >sell in grocery stores
They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth” >print anthologies
Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue >go digital
Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
Nothing you say escapes the reality that, like all things, costs go up and price points follow.
On the digital side it’s because they don’t want to drive down the perceived value of an individual issue because they recoup much more per unit on floppies than they do on digital.
This big problem is they lost all advertising which used to be the real revenue driver and for some reason streaming/digital options for all media were sold as advertising-free which kneecapped them all.
>Digital releases are priced to match physical ones so that the physical side of the market doesn't crash immediately.
Sounds like a dogshit excuse tbh....
It is a shit reason, but that is why.
The comic market relies on whales that collect physical copies of series in bulk.
Even if it would be for the better long-term, they don't want to pay the short term price of killing that revenue stream.
Comics should be released in collected format just like regular books are. If someone decided to read Dickens or Dumas' stories in the original newspaper release way you'd call him an idiot because we all recognise that it's better to read them collected in one book. Comics need to make the same jump that books did two hundred years ago and let their stories sell or flop based on if they're good from beginning to end, instead of having stories go on just because people keep buying issues hoping a mystery or plot point will finally be resolved.
In that way they should be slightly more expensive than books, with the profits having to be split between artists and writers. Better art and binding equals a higher price, but you'll be more likely to pay that price because you know you'll get a finished story and not get cucked and not get an ending because they tried to string the readers along for too many issues and it got cancelled.
Way too much overhead tied up into individual releases. Even most French BD only release at about 70-80 pages at a time, which is 3 issues of an ongoing.
What you don’t seem to understand is that ongoings subsidize collections cost wise. They wouldn’t release them if they didn’t represent an ROI.
Anon, most comics don't even sell 10k TPBs in a month.
That’s a weirdly specific and moronic statement ignoring almost everything I said. Most manga don’t sell a single paperback ever, let alone 10K monthly. The entire point I made was the only manga seen in the west are guaranteed successes.
>Most manga don’t sell a single paperback ever, let alone 10K monthly.
Anon, even random no-name stuff like Groundless have sold over 500k volumes, and that's an ex-webmanga.
Nta but they literally were talking about manga in totality. That’s why singular examples (particularly action ones that were guaranteed sales successes) don’t really function as a gotcha
3 months ago
Anonymous
>particularly action ones that were guaranteed sales successes
homie it's a no-name manga published on some dude's website for the first half of its life before being officially published.
Tons of action series flop anyways.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>some dude's website for the first half of its life before being officially published
You don’t understand why that’s a guaranteed sales success?
3 months ago
Anonymous
If you think that's a guaranteed success then you might be a genuine moron who doesn't know the meaning of the words "guaranteed" or "success."
The amount of failed action webcomics out there could fill half the libraries in America.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Tons of action series flop anyways.
That was literally my point.
>some dude's website for the first half of its life before being officially published
You don’t understand why that’s a guaranteed sales success?
They’re either moronic or underaged. They never answered my question before.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That was literally my point.
see
Kek, no, friend. The awful selling manga does 20k per volumes. The really popular comics do 10k per volume in the first month.
Since you seem to be moronic.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, I'm the moron because you're buttmad that manga sells far far far better than comics do. Cry more, maybe your tears will warp reality.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>doesn’t even know how to use the site.
Anon was agreeing with you moron
3 months ago
Anonymous
Didn't pay attention to the first half of his post.
Comictards should be HAPPY manga is outselling capeshit comics.
Would you rather deal with shitty stories having high sales or bad stories getting what they deserve.
More units sold = lesser cost to make = more profit
You can sell floppies for 2.99 AND make a profit...If you sell 1m units a month. Unfortunately, the best selling floppy in a given month is 50k. A number that's also inflated thanks to variant covers.
Funny thing, Comic Books used to have ads in them, you know like magazines. Like what Shonen Jump does. Why don't Disney and/or Warner supplement their floppies with ads?
>the best selling floppy in a given month is 50k
90-100 actually most months but otherwise I appreciate you being less moronic than everyone else ITT after the first reply.
>Why don't Disney and/or Warner supplement their floppies with ads?
It’s the opposite, that’s why. Advertisers pulled out years ago because the reach wasn’t worth the cost. Same reason you see the same six low budget oxyclean tier ads on higher digit cable channels.
I don't count #1 inflation. And even by those numbers, that's bad.
To put things in perspective, King Spawn #1 written by Todd McFarlane did 500k. Yes it had variant covers but that's how much a #1 by a Superstar should sell. Similarly Spawn #300 did 262k. In contrast Spider-Woman #1 did 122k...before dying like every other worthless book. When I say 50k, I'm talking what can be expected with the current crop of talent.
If the industry were healthier, 100k a month for a non-number one would be fine from the big two and image. They wouldn't have raised the price cause again, more books printed = cheaper to make.
Kek and you have the gall to shit on the other ones for having massive drops.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Hate on Todd all you want. Unlike the aforementioned Spider-woman, all of his new series (King Spawn, The Scorched, Gunslinger Spawn) are still going. Still making him a LOT of money.
That's in addition to Spawn reaching #350.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Glad comics are dying and manga is destroying them if you people still simp for fricking Todd like this. Embarrassing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Is there anyone else in comics right now as good as Todd? Anyone?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Hundreds, probably even thousands.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Hundreds, probably even thousands
3 months ago
Anonymous
Todd can’t write for shit but he doesn’t gouge his readers like Marvel and DC do so
Glad comics are dying and manga is destroying them if you people still simp for fricking Todd like this. Embarrassing.
>best selling floppy in a given month is 50k
Goddamn, wasn't that USM numbers at Pete's lowest?
Didn't Batman and Spider-man used to reliably hit 400k+?
Even back in the 80's comics like Green Lantern only sold like 10 k. It's on the info towards the back of the books in the letters pages. Comics in America have never been as big as manga is in Japan.
Yeah but by that same metric, more comic runs and ongoings were happening and they typically came out faster and with a better profit margin than they do today.
I think the problem is that comics are trying to be seen as serious media now. They want to signal that they are not just silly things for kids to read.
I don't mind having some comics like that but it would be nice to have also cheap pulp fiction style comics even if they have ads and look crude
>Serious comics
That’s the problem, they want people to take awful stories seriously where nothing makes sense. The writing is actually moronic and outdated.
It's genuinely too late for the industry.
All the stuff that people suggest either doesn't work or should have been done 20 years ago.
Nothing left to do now but watch the shrinkage and see who ends up surviving in the end.
Hopefully the big 2 will be among the casualties.
40+ years of the comics industry pulling every cash grab scheme they could think of, coupled with the availability of other mediums, has made the price of comics irrelevant.
Goods and services HAVE to capture the emerging generations in order to stay relevant. Kids don't give a shit about comics. When's the last time comics even tried to market to kids? 20 years ago? >beg parent to take you to specialty store (only place that sells comics) >beg parent to shell out $X for pieces of paper they know you're going to wreck >have no fricking clue what's going on in the story because you didn't buy the whole run plus the spin-off companion issues
or >sit on ass at home >free on-demand access of literally thousands of hours of cartoons
not a difficult choice for kids
>Kids read manga not comics >Manga has all sorts of adult scenarios >Manga generally avoids politics >American comics are aimed at adults >But clearly written for kids >Lack any adult scenarios >Shove in politics because.. reasons
I pirate anyway but I’ll be nice when this industry dies and something new takes its place
Cover cost is a limited way of looking at the pricing problem. We should also be looking at the publisher-distributor/retail breakdown of the price.
In the direct market back when Diamond ruled it, it was 38%-17%-45%, publisher-distro-retail. I do not know what it's like at Lunar and Penguin, but I assume that system has been carried over. In my estimation, the better breakdown for a healthier market is 50-10-40 or 50-5-45. Especially at the mid-to-lower end publishers, they need a better margin to actually survive, much less have the flexibility to lower cover price. Diamond was essentially an order aggregation and reshipping service, and 15%~17% for that from the entire fricken industry was highway robbery. Retailers also enjoy a higher discount than other comparable retail sectors because of non-returnability. In a way, the DM is something they imposed, and they need to be willing to give some points up if they want the industry to be attractive to more publishers. Caring only about 2 or 3 major publishers is what got the industry to the place it's in.
Everyone has to give something - publishers need to lower price, distributors and retailers need to give up points - in order for the industry to improve. Which is probably why it's not going to happen as long as the major players remain the same.
$3 physical and $2 digital and $10 a month to get access to all new issues digitally the day they would normally hit stores. Maybe $15 a month to get access to previous issues as well. Companies have to eat and people will have choices depending on their budget and how many comics they want each month. Maybe a digital pull list with a discount.
Put it into an anthology. The weakness of the Western comic book release format is that everything is so compartmentalized and yet expected to be interconnected, and you need to buy every issue of every run individually which is confusing to the consumer. Putting Justice League and Batman and Superman and Action Comics all together in the same publication where they all reference each other makes the most sense, DC Comics' move a while back to publish cheap omnibuses in Walmart's checkout corners was the most logical move I've seen them make in a while. Just do that but digital.
Most shops get by by expanding what they sell. Board games, figures, manga, and so on. The big thing comic shops do to get by is sell back issues. That is a market that is still doing pretty well. Sales for current ongoing comics for shops are down across the board.
Manga seems to have a better grasp on the art aspect than American comics, which is the most important part. Design/appeal, paneling, and action wise, the average manga usually does it well. My only real problem with manga art is that they crunch so often, they have to use photobashing and tracing and thus ruin the nice foreground art.
I wish American comics did better in this regard. Part of the problem too is that the industry's horseshit has piled up to meet them face to face because they ran all the talent out of the business.
I think they should push mail subscriptions. I'm not really sure why they don't. Both Marvel and DC have official means to subscribe to comics and get them in the mail, at a 40% discount in a lot of cases, and nobody knows about it. Why don't they give little advertisements in the box when you buy a new Spider-Man game, or play commercials on Disney and Warner Bros owned TV networks and streaming services?
I think if more people knew about it they'd be willing check out comics in that way, when they'd be reluctant to go to a comic shop and set up a pull list.
No, most people do not ever start reading comics, but everyone knows these characters and I think they'd be interested in trying out a subscription if they knew about it.
If they don't keep the characters in print, they could lose various legal rights (Trademark, Copyright, contracts where the creator gets the rights back if something goes out of print). While I don't rule out there is some old guard who want to make comics, more than likely its to cover their asses.
The recent Alan Scott book comes to mind. Use him or lose the trademark, quality be damned.
cool, they sell them online and in bookstores. Have for 30+ years. DKR was in bookstores and Grant Morrison was rich off Arkham asylum in 89. Oh guess what, the sales aren't there either anymore.
anon, everytime a tpb is collected, it's at a bookstore. That isn't the issue. People don't want them.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That is a tremendous failure of marketing, and I hope that someday someone actually takes initiative and does what needs to be done to bring the people who are already fans of these characters to the comics for the first time.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's not marketing, it's quality.
3 months ago
Anonymous
This. The writing is really, really bad.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's probably both. Anime and manga are everywhere.
3 months ago
Anonymous
This. The writing is really, really bad.
It's not true. You can find some examples of particularly terrible titles, but both companies are publishing perfectly good books right now, and to pretend like it's all garbage is actually the kind of toxic negativity that comic writers are always whining about.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah except those books aren't selling. We wouldn't even be having this topic if the books were selling.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I know they're not selling, but it's not a quality issue. Incredible Hulk or Green Lantern right now are both excellent.
3 months ago
Anonymous
They’re all trash and a complete waste of time. Who the frick cares what happens when the next writer comes in and destroys all of it?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I haven't read it but it's trash >And even if it's not trash, someone will eventually write a bad book so why enjoy anything now?
I'm starting to understand why comic writers hate their fans so much.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>t. Shill
3 months ago
Anonymous
If this were how things worked then I could write anal absorption vore featuring Gilgamesh and destroy the whole idea of heroes in fiction.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>but both companies are publishing perfectly good books right now
This is where you’ll name 5 or 6 dogshit comics and act like the only reason people don’t like them is culture war brain rot
3 months ago
Anonymous
Except this is the state of Trades when it comes to DC and Marvel. This doesn't effect Image and Vertigo stuff but good luck finding a straightforward numbered collection of trades.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>That is a tremendous failure of marketing
It's odd to me that we are generally loathe to give marketing people credit for the success of a book, yet we're quick to give them the blame for failures. This is not quite dishonest, but also not completely forthcoming, is it?
You have to look at this from the perspective of a non-comics reader. Comic trades have poor marketing because the books themselves are unmarketable. Quality arguments aside, the art of most comics is not readily appealing, especially when collections are of classic works whose aesthetics have fallen out of style. The price points of comics and trades are not competitive, and the reasons don't matter to consumers. The size of trades is not convenient, since there are limits to how much comics can be shrunk before the lettering becomes illegible.
Marketing and the age of the characters themselves are the least of comic's problems, because Superman Vs Meshi sells okay, One Op Joker sells okay, and I expect Spiderman Octopus Girl to do better than all of those once it is published.
The product is the problem.
3 months ago
Anonymous
there is a point where marketing makes you aware of something's existence
and there is a point where marketing makes you loathe its existence.
I AM the target demo for selling comics, but I have never seen a comic advertised once outside of some creators making their own and using their own platform to market it themselves.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I AM the target demo for selling comics, but I have never seen a comic advertised once
That's a function of publishers relying on their captured audience, and the (lack of) success of comics as a whole. Comics doesn't do well enough to warrant mass advertising.
People don't seem to realize this, but manga doesn't advertise either outside of their own ecosystem. Not by itself. What those publishers do is to treat digital distro as advertising, the same way the magazine bricks are in Japan, dumping them on the market for next to nothing. The rest of the advertising is done by news sites, fans, and booksellers who are evangelical and self-motivated, because covering/promoting manga directly benefits them.
Comic readers used to be evangelical. They're not anymore except for a handful, and those guys tend to be accused of being far-right by the mainstream (and failing) comics journalism who want to control the narrative on everything. Toxic is an overused word, but it's very apropos for describing current state of comics. No sane outsider would look at whats going on in comics and think "hey, this seems like a nice hobby to get into." No amount of advertising can fix that.
Comics should cost whatever people are willing to pay for them.
For me the thing keeping me from buying more comics isn't the price tag, it's the fact that 99.95% of comics published in the abominable year 2024 are ones I don't want even for free.
>This overwhelming negativity is unwarranted
I assure you it's absolutely warranted sir and/or madam. >Marvel, DC, and Image are all putting out several good to great books right now.
Your idea of what's good is irrelevant in this discussion. In my opinion there's maybe two readable books total being published in all of America. And I do remember a time when that number was 20.
This overwhelming negativity is unwarranted. Marvel, DC, and Image are all putting out several good to great books right now.
didnt the hulk a few years ago have a good run for about a year, and then it went off the deep end into social justice shit, even if the runs are currently good, would I EVER trust them enough to get invested now?
Depends on the character. Pretty sure they could stop publishing Batman and Superman and still own them lock, stock, and barrel but they have to publish some form of Wonder Woman comic in order to retain rights to her, that’s why there was that Busiek WW mini they published between pre and post Crisis.
Actually y’know what Superman might be that way too, I know the reason we got Snyder directing Man of Steel was because if WB didn’t get the cameras rolling on a Superman movie before a certain date they’d owe the Siegel estate a frick ton of money. Not sure if that would apply to comics too.
You cannot expect to compete with tv, music, video games, manga etc at the prices comics cost currently. Go "free" or die. Besides, if comics are just IP farms for their media conglomerate overlords they should want as many eyeballs on the IP as possible for mixed media promotion
The price needs to come down. Disney and WB don't really care about comics, but they see them as good supplements to their overall Marvel and DC franchises. The issue is that while the price does need to come down, and things need to be tried to bring in new readers, that would lower profits in the short term at least, and then they'd draw the eye of their corporate overlords. I think right now Disney and WB don't really care about the comics as long as they're in the black and not the red.
Free. The government has an obligation to keep it's citizens alive and in good health. That includes good and shelter. Let people get what they need to live and everything else is optional .
I personally hold out hope that sooner or later, either Marvel or DC will hire someone who isn't satisfied with just treading water, but will actually focus on getting comics in front of people and gaining new fans.
Anime and Manga has taken over. None of my friends or randos I talk to in my age group care about capeshit. All of them are into reality shows, drama, normie shit, or anime.
A 12 cent comic in 1964 should only cost $1.25 in 2024 when adjusting for inflation. We are essentially paying 4 times more now for comic than our parents and grandparents were paying when they were our age and that's all thanks to hyper monopolization which over past 50 years has led to most major businesses in most industries in America being owned and operated by small number of large corporations, which has resulted in price gouging of consumer base to drive up capital market price of their share value and increasing their stock bonuses. In other words, the prices are never going to come down. Until government breaks up these big corporations you're going have to learn to enjoy paying $15 for cheeseburger, $10 for coke, $5 for comic book. Shit is fricked.
Basically all of this is wrong. Comics are expensive because they don't have any new readers, and they have to raise prices for the hopelessly addicted collectors.
I'd rather wait for trades of good stories and shell out 20 bucks for higher quality paper than pay 6 fricking dollars for something that may end up being a dumpster fire and I also can't put it on a book shelf where it looks nice and also I need to see advertisements in my thing I paid 6 dollars for.
Significantly less than $4.99 for 19 pages. Most of it is drama shit and maybe just a single page or even one panel of a superhero in a costume actually punching a bad guy.
It is fricking weird to see something made in the late 80s be 30+ pages of hero vs villain stuff. And for a dollar.
If that Disney exec who claims "make good media" is an "alt-right nazi buzzword" is any indication, that's nevee going to happen anytime soon. They truly believe they are making gold.
Make comics good.
Simple as.
We keep having this stupid discussion. It all boils down to this.
Nobody is going to buy shit they're not going to read.
's pic related)
Also worth pointing out that the terrible writing of a lot of big shounen manga is partially related to rushing out 16-some pages a week. So maybe regular weekly releases are part of the key to building and maintaining readership.
I'm not reading an action comic for the fricking writing, when I watch Robocop I'm not watching it because I think the dialogue is super compelling and thought-provoking, I'm watching it because I enjoy seeing Robocop shoot thugs in the streets, blow the shit out of dudes armed with giant sniper autocannons, shoot corrupt corporate buttholes out of windows, and that one dude get liquefied by the car after getting covered in toxic waste.
Not really, it's full of cheesy corny one-liners and extremely stupid dialogue, (for frick's sake, the climax of the movie has Robocop's main directive of not harming an employee of the company be overridden by the older guy screaming "YOU'RE FIRED!")
But that's fine because Robocop isn't trying to be a serious examination of corporate corruption and its sleazy culture, it's a satirical one, and that includes dialogue that fits in a satirical setting.
That's why the writing is great. It knows what it's doing and is doing it right.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's not what I'd consider "great," I'd consider that "fine."
Writing that just accomplishes what it sets out to do is what you'd expect from a story, anything below that is just a failure in writing.
Robocop is a good movie, but fricking hell is there an annoying, pretentious habit that people have where they treat it like high fricking art, like it's the only movie they've ever seen with a satirical tone that isn't explicitly a comedy.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You backed yourself into a corner.
3 months ago
Anonymous
It sounds more to me like you automatically equate action=dumb when that's not necessarily the case. There are other action movies with good writing, it's not like Robocop is the only one. There's nothing wrong with liking dumb movies, or dumb manga, but Robocop is a bad example for when you're trying to make a a point about how you like dumb stuff, that's the only point I was trying to make. Pick something genuinely stupid like Batman & Robin. Or even something like the Matrix is a good parallel to JJK. The Matrix isn't entirely stupid, but it's clearly leaning hard on "look how cool everything is" to distract you from a lot of the nonsensical ideas, similar to Jujustu Kaisen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I dunno, there are people out there who'll try to say that The Matrix is extremely deep and layered, and would probably say it's better-written than Robocop.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I dunno, there are people out there who'll try to say that The Matrix is extremely deep and layered, and would probably say it's better-written than Robocop.
I think Independence day is a movie that's liked for the action, but no one would defend its' writing.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sure, but that's a super low bar, since the action in that movie isn't that great either.
There's always going to be people who elevate the writing in a movie they like, doesn't mean the movie is actually well-written.
The Matrix is a pretty good example, it's the quintessential "style over substance" movie of the late 90s/early 2000s (especially now that the last 15 years of the Wachowskis' careers have exposed them as hacks with shit like Jupiter Ascending and Cloud Atlas and whatever that last Matrix movie was), right alongside stuff like Equilibrium and Blade.
A good modern example would be something like The Raid, where the writing is whatever, but the action is fricking phenomenal.
But yea, I think a lot of people who read comics kind of focus on the wrong thing, people don't watch stuff like John Wick for the writing, they watch it for the action, and if the action is good, then as far as they're concerned the movie is good.
In the same way, most people who are reading action shonen #297345 aren't reading it for the writing, they're reading it for the powerlevel wank and to see action scenes of people beating the shit out of/murdering each other.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The Matrix isn't stupid at all, it just leans hard on the rule of cool.
3 months ago
Anonymous
because these people cant possibly imagine sending a message in any way that isn't direct in your face insult to your intelligence and put anything that understands sublty on a pedestal so long as they agree with the message, but shit on anything they don't.
>extremely stupid dialogue, (for frick's sake, the climax of the movie has Robocop's main directive of not harming an employee of the company be overridden by the older guy screaming "YOU'RE FIRED!")
Explain how that's stupid instead of clever.
Actually don't bother, you should just have a nice day.
>I'm watching it because I enjoy seeing Robocop shoot thugs in the streets, blow the shit out of dudes armed with giant sniper autocannons, shoot corrupt corporate buttholes out of windows, and that one dude get liquefied by the car after getting covered in toxic waste.
I liked the movie because the writing was good. Not because he just "blew shit up."
And it's still more entertaining than your gay shit.
>terribly written
Comic fans dares to splutter this shit out of his windpipe given the current state of the industry.
([...]'s pic related)
Also worth pointing out that the terrible writing of a lot of big shounen manga is partially related to rushing out 16-some pages a week. So maybe regular weekly releases are part of the key to building and maintaining readership.
>maybe regular weekly releases are part of the key..
What the frick is wrong with you people?
Why don't you ever look at the core principle of the matter.
JJK does well because it's ENTERTAINING.
People discuss it because it's FUN like
I'm not reading an action comic for the fricking writing, when I watch Robocop I'm not watching it because I think the dialogue is super compelling and thought-provoking, I'm watching it because I enjoy seeing Robocop shoot thugs in the streets, blow the shit out of dudes armed with giant sniper autocannons, shoot corrupt corporate buttholes out of windows, and that one dude get liquefied by the car after getting covered in toxic waste.
says.
Not because Gege is a fricking economist but because he knows how to keep the reader captivated for a good 159 chapters now. Get this through your fricking head. People don't read Naruto because it's fricking easy to access, for frick's sake it's from an island how many miles away they ENJOY IT BECAUSE IT'S FRICKING FUN
FRICKING FUN
FRICKING FUN
NOT BECAUSE OF THE FRICKING ECONOMY.
Make something unique, make something people can discuss, something that can grab the entertainment sphere and you have SALES.
>500 pages >$3 >every week
How the frick does Japan do it?
Because they care about they produce and their writers/artists are put on a strong leash so they don't act like morons on twitter.
I have to admit that I'm continually impressed by Naruto's lasting appeal. Thought it would fade away after its' run was over, but it keeps getting new fans.
Then why do monthly manga, which can be more fun and frequently have better art and writing than weekly manga rarely hit the same level of mass popularity as the weeklies?
But they do, they just don't sell as many volumes because being monthly means fewer chapter releases, which means fewer volumes to sell.
Stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist, Berserk, Vagabond, Hunter X Hunter, Sailor Moon, and Blue Exorcist were/are all published on a monthly (or even more sparingly in the case of HxH, Berserk, and Vagabond) schedule and they're among some of the most popular properties of all time.
If people really REALLY like what you're making they'll gladly wait a month for it.
First of all, they need to print them on lower quality paper. I have no idea why they print floppies on paper that is better quality than one they use in trades. Maybe offer a cheaper lower quality version in supermarkets and the direct market gets the nice glossy paper? I know that's what Archie does, the stuff they stock at Walmart have cheap as shit paper but also are a much more affordable price for what they are
Yes, and it already is. Not thanks to any business decisions by anyone in comics, but because Disney and WB are going to derisk from these mega mergers because they're hurting the brands.
I don't get why they don't just bundle all the releases into one magazine each month. Would be easier for everyone. Could release new issues online for free then require a payment after a month or 2. I should be able to pull up a marvel or DC website and be able to read all the new issues that released for free.
The magazine system works great for Japan, and does here in the indie/fanfiction circuit.
I actually forgot that's how jump does it. I just think they need to bundle all their monthly issues together. Could even do a subscription to get the magazine sent to your house monthly. Personally I think they really need to get their new releases free online for a limited time. We'd probably see alot of new people jumping into comics just because it's convenient. If you want to read an older issue just pay the subscription online and get unlimited access to the backlog.
Straight up, the Hitotsubashi Group is more horizontally integrated and nepotistic than Marvel and DC's conjunctions ever could be, and they still manage to pull in a massive international revenue with less money spent per head at all levels.
That's entirely because they understand that they're selling a product, where DC and Marvel think they're a job program for israelite frickups. An online comic service with easy delivery would only allow a lot of people to get crap, instead of increasing supply. All the current issues in creative industries are due to strangled supply and supply myopia.
You know why that is? It's because Hitotsubashi - by extension Shogakukan, Shueisha, and Viz - is a completely private family company. They can take unilateral action. They do not answer to shareholders, their focus is not diluted by people with competing interests, and long term goals are not subverted by short term greed or a suicidal allegiance to "maximizing shareholder value."
Corporate absolutism and privatization only work if your corporate absolutists have a long term plan for the business. Private equity groups take companies private, but they're just as responsible for stupid business decisions and instability as any of the publically traded companies are. They're privately able to move as efficiently into neoliberal suicide.
The only way for us to get back to a place where moderately successful ventures are feasible are for large conglomerates to share the market (by breaking themselves up) or the power (by being regulated into common carriers, or into not being able to snuff out competitors).
I don't get why they don't just bundle all the releases into one magazine each month. Would be easier for everyone. Could release new issues online for free then require a payment after a month or 2. I should be able to pull up a marvel or DC website and be able to read all the new issues that released for free.
I actually forgot that's how jump does it. I just think they need to bundle all their monthly issues together. Could even do a subscription to get the magazine sent to your house monthly. Personally I think they really need to get their new releases free online for a limited time. We'd probably see alot of new people jumping into comics just because it's convenient. If you want to read an older issue just pay the subscription online and get unlimited access to the backlog.
>I don't get why they don't just bundle all the releases into one magazine each month. >We'd probably see alot of new people jumping into comics just because it's convenient.
Both DC and Marvel pubblish over 50 magazines monthly, each. This means your "convenient" magazine would be over 1000 pages and cost around $200 per issue.
I looked up the cost of manga and shonen jump in Japan for shits and giggles.
It's about 4-5 bucks for the 200 page books and 2 bucks for the shonen jump issues.
Prices over here are so much worse, it's amazing.
Literally everyone reads manga in Japan, from toddlers to 90-year-old grannies. They have perfect distribution, this shit is available in every single store everywhere in the country as well as online. And both the publishers and the writers are autistically obsessed with trying to find out what the crowd wants and appeal to them instead of shitting out whatever they please and demanding it's praised.
Less cultural stigma about reading comics, a culture based on public transport, there's a better production model and companies actually trying to appeal to readers. There's a reason manga publishers have those monthly character popularity polls. Imagine if that happened in here.
>There's a reason manga publishers have those monthly character popularity polls. Imagine if that happened in here.
Really. Just once I'd like to see the Mid Two put up an online feedback form or popularity poll. I think the biggest problem with both companies is that they're so utterly uninterested in what the audience enjoys.
If they did the results would be completely cooked. >Well folks, going by the survey results, our audiences are incredibly invested in romance stories involving Blacks. In order to reflect market demands, every popular white female will be paired with a Black.
Q1) E (Anon is my friend)
Q2) C (The internet provides)
Q3) 1 (it should be 0)
Q4) Read manga (all the hours)
Q5
a) 3
b) 3
c) 1
d) 3
e) 3
f) 3
g) 3
h) 2
i) 3
Q6) Humour type
Q7) B, free on Cinemaphile
Q8) I don't eat breakfast
Q9) Archival records and Guinness World records.
Q10 ) D
Q11) British comedy panel shows
I have answered your survey, now cater to me, specifically, comic creators!
People are willing to read it because people in Japan take public transit a lot and want cheap entertainment to pass the time. In Burgerland everyone drives their own car so there's no demand for that and if it were the current culture would just have them look at tiktok phone shit anyway.
Your average manga artist gets paid far less than the average western comic artist and alsois expected to produce 1.5× to even double the amount of pages per month
Yeah because that's what's called "having a fricking job"
Modern writers coast off the rockstar primadonna contract standards set back when the industry was basically raped to death by the dumbfricks who demanded that standard, where they don't have to put out work at anything resembling an acceptable rate in return for what is an unreasonable amount of cash and benefits for the tiny amount of work they actually do.
Mangaka maybe deserve better, but at the very least they aren't able to shit out one 15 page issue with ads every month, when they actually make deadlines and get a fat stack of cash and benefits for it.
The entire industry is basically engineered to cater to the worthless homosexuals who couldn't handle "making deadlines" or "actually working for their pay" under Jim Shooter in the late 80s and that is basically a core component of what killed it.
The answer to this question is and will always be 'cheap enough to be affordable on a kid's budget.' When I was a wee lad bouncing on my father's knee $20 would get you one of those black and white Essentials books which were like 400-500 pages of silver and bronze age classic Marvel. Yeah it was printed on phone book paper, no it wasn't in color, but I didn't really care because that was a good value even as an unemployed teen. It was even priced competitively with manga which was and is very cheap.
Digital comic books are only a sales failure because they held off releasing them until after they were released in comic shops. That trying to double dip the market.
The correct answer is to give up doing colour and physical printing.
That could push the price down and break the comics out of the dingy shops because they aren’t selling well anywhere. So you better just cut the expense.
>Digital comic books are only a sales failure because they held off releasing them until after they were released in comic shops.
Not only were digital releases delayed, they were priced the same as the floppies at the insistence of a group of retailers led by Brian Hibbs. Who incidentally probably also influenced the pencil-down decision during the pandemic shutdown. Both horrendous decisions that were as detrimental to the industry as the decision to embrace diversity writers (which Hibbs also championed.)
This select group of comic shops are the crabbiest bunch of crabs in a bucket who have ever crabbed.
I'm really confused by the people saying they should publish comics without color. Do you really think the way to make comics more popular is to make them shittier?
They're basing it off the Manga model, which uses toilet paper quality sheets, rare color spreads, and tosses in the low selling stuff with mega hits.
Monthly and weekly issues are made to be disposable, while the trade equivalents are made to be shelved and saved.
No more than 2 dollars. 2.50 absolute tops. They're meant to be bought on a whim and when they release too many books at once it becomes impossible to keep up. A comic book should be someone deciding how badly they really want candy and a soda.
Anyone suggesting that price affects sales is moronic. NO ONE would take modern American comics if they were giving them away for free.
Wizard Magazine even tested this in the 90s post-crash era. They set up a stand/booth/table (in like a rec center or something similar) where you could take 1 comic or 1 pancake, but not both. They had dozens of people of all ages, both males and females, come up to their stand/booth/table. They gave away 0 comics.
>Wizard Magazine even tested this in the 90s post-crash era. They set up a stand/booth/table (in like a rec center or something similar) where you could take 1 comic or 1 pancake, but not both. They had dozens of people of all ages, both males and females, come up to their stand/booth/table. They gave away 0 comics.
>At this point the differences in paper prices aren't enough to affect the cost of production by any significant degree.
^This.
What actually makes a difference is print run/circulation, color, and printer location.
After a certain point, the cost of offset print grows at 25% the rate of increase in print run. Printers run hundreds, even thousands of books during calibration alone. It's not that big a cost.
Color is 4 times the work of b/w printing, and the paper requires additional chemical treatments.
Printing in Asia costs less than half of printing in North America, and that's including surface freight. The only reason comics aren't all printed in Asia is because it's treated as a periodical. No one is competent enough to complete a book 1 month in advance to allow for the shipping.
Color prepress is not a factor. Color POD is not a factor. But on offset printing at scale? Still a huge factor. You're printing 4 screens on top of the black.
People these days get the wrong idea because most indies/self publishers, the kind who are crowdsourcing their stuff, are doing it through POD based on inkjet/laserjet tech. That stuff is way more expensive overall per copy, but the margins are different because they're selling it to you at 20 bucks a pop, and they aren't splitting the cover price with retailers.
In the "commercial" comics space, we're selling them to distributors at 38% of cover. Every little bit matters.
a comic should not cost more than 10k to produce per issue. from here you sell print issues, a month or so later you put them on a free for all subscription service. then you go on to produce voiceover for the comic, I say this alot, go look at the mission hill crap gets in your eye, as long as you have a good story, there you go you don't need animation, this could be an upcharge for the comic service, if the reader for the comics is able to move a jpeg around, zoom in, and do whatever other cuts it needs to without rendering, you also save quite a bit on bandwidth because audio alone can be compressed to hell and still be good enough and the comic pages are potentially already in a cache.
every time an arc concludes you have separate pay tiers for an overall rundown, see comistorian Batman White Knight 1 hour video as a blueprint on how to do this.
from here you have the data to know whats most popular, animate it if not go live action.
because the big comic people are warner brothers and disney, treating this endeavor as a loss leader where the ideas and story's you make here can get repurposed into movies or other projects to recoup.
potentially license out the platform for indie companies who can't, and pay out kind of like youtube premium does.
the people who buy comics now, just want physical copies, normal people who have a passing interest will use this service either with the voice over or overview and then when they really get interested in something go into the raw comic side.
>a comic should not cost more than 10k to produce per issue
That’s just insanity. This is you not realizing Japan is a cheaper country to live in than America.
>print on cheaper pulp paper instead of that glossy shit that costs an arm and a leg >get ads back in comics to eat some of the cost >try and push in markets that aren't fricking superheroes to try and get some interest or better yet partner up with vidya/famous movies to create comics for their extended universes instead of just stagnating and ip farming
>try and push in markets that aren't fricking superheroes to try and get some interest
This is a big one. Kid's graphic novels do very well but there's not as much interest when they get older in whatever Image or IDW are putting out. Having well marketed entertaining genre stories that don't end in one book would be a big help.
>but there's not as much interest when they get older in whatever Image or IDW are putting out.
Doesn't help that most of IDW's relevant catalogue is licensed comics based on properties from the 80s.
It's a cope because the art looks better and it's on time, meanwhile none of the top artists in comics can do more than 80 pages a year so you lot have to prop up some mediocre shitters as "great" because they can shit out 6 issues in a year (still not a lot). You also known damn well that not all mangaka have assistants but that fact makes you cry and shit your pants in anger so you ignore it, just like you ignored the previous anon's point that all creative decisions in writing and art are done by one guy to cope that that some of them have assistants to do grunt work.
Keep coping anon. Might as well namegay as Mr COPEacetic
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm speaking facts while you're coping as to why the comic book industry is dying and manga is eating your lunch.
3 months ago
Anonymous
You’re coping because you’re seething. Continue to do both.
3 months ago
Anonymous
manga is all traced and 3d assets for a weekly pipeline. they are generic as frick and full of tropes and copy and paste everything. there are only a handful of actual artists in the entire manga industry. there were more in the past, but even then they traced all the time. prince of tennis assistant interview discussed tracing all the sports magazines and pulling out when needed, retracing and adding face/logos as required. toner packs for schools, temples, vehicles, etc were bought by everyone. thats why everything looked the same all the time for backgrounds.
manga doesnt look better. you are literally too low IQ to tell you are getting just as shit a product as american comics. and the best artists dont work in comics and do it basically part time. thats why its so few pages a year. a single commission can net them thousands of dollars compared to wasting month on a single comic. working in video game or movie industry will pay them 10x as much for half the work of doing comics for a year. they arent slow. they are getting paid more doing other stuff that has higher priority and do the comic on teh side.
Your tears are delicious.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>y-y-youre crying! >I-I’m not coping! Y-you are
Remember to buy a rope that can support your weight when reality becomes too much of a burden to bare anon
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, you're the one crying. Remember who's winning and who's losing.
manga is all traced and 3d assets for a weekly pipeline. they are generic as frick and full of tropes and copy and paste everything. there are only a handful of actual artists in the entire manga industry. there were more in the past, but even then they traced all the time. prince of tennis assistant interview discussed tracing all the sports magazines and pulling out when needed, retracing and adding face/logos as required. toner packs for schools, temples, vehicles, etc were bought by everyone. thats why everything looked the same all the time for backgrounds.
manga doesnt look better. you are literally too low IQ to tell you are getting just as shit a product as american comics. and the best artists dont work in comics and do it basically part time. thats why its so few pages a year. a single commission can net them thousands of dollars compared to wasting month on a single comic. working in video game or movie industry will pay them 10x as much for half the work of doing comics for a year. they arent slow. they are getting paid more doing other stuff that has higher priority and do the comic on teh side.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>can't even write in english properly >judges others for being low IQ
There are tens of fallacies in your arguments but you like to abuse generalization the most.
>and the best artists dont work in comics and do it basically part time.
Lol, lmao even. Firstly there are more monthly magazines than weekly ones and secondly the greatest manga artists shit on all nips that do commissions or video games art(since most japanese vidya artists are themselves inspired by mangaka). I know that you are angry but please control your emotions. It will help you write a cohesive argument.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Fukin saved thanks for the tip.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>"manga doesnt look better" >just explained why it looks better
You are so moronic, holy shit. Instead of whining you should DO WHAT THEY DO. moron.
You literally have a living example of how to do things the right way but you're too stubborn and proud to copy their homework. So you flunk the class yet again.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's rich. Western artists accusing japanese artists of tracing and using 3d assets. How shameless.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Using models acquired through licensed software to save time on sketch work is bad. >Stealing copyrighted images off Google to trace is good.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I remember when a dude on a forum use Greg Land's art to show that comic art was better than manga art.
American comics will always be dogshit when compared to manga.
>for “office” duties
brining someone coffee is a useless job just like those guys that write "experience in programming" when all they did were some office duties for companies x and y. You will never be a real programmer or artist.
>reality is coping >NAH BRAH, THESE DECADES LONG ESTABLISHED MANGAKA WHO OWN STUDIOS MEAN THE NEW GUYS DON’T EXISY
Not everything is dragonball all you mongoloid. You think the Chainsaw Man mangaka had a studio when he did fire punch? Do you think he even has one now when Chainsaw Man is a huge success and has an entire anime adaptation?
Frank Miller drew and wrote his daredevil run. This shit isn’t impossible
>Do you think he even has one now when Chainsaw Man is a huge success and has an entire anime adaptation?
We know he does. Holy massive hit of copium Batman.
>Frank Miller drew and wrote his daredevil run. This shit isn’t impossible
Not the entire thing and he had an inker and letterer and two editors.
A better example, if you weren’t a casual, would be John Byrne.
It's not the price it's the priority, people don't have any problems paying hundreds per month for streaming channels, paying for 5-10 streamers at a time on twitch (+ ponctual donations), or just have 5 deliveroo meals per week. But somehow 5 dollars per month for comics is "impossible because of their student's debt"
The creation of a DC onmiverse is likely a in-universe explanation for what may become of DC comics following its eventual shutdown. Since everything is canon, even multiverses, this means that future creator don't need to write in continuity. They can just make their own. If they ever go for "publisher-distributor" model, it means that continuity won't matter, just stories.
The reason why colour needs to be removed isn't to save money, it's to make the art better.
By not having colour, manga has developed a plethora of techniques that utilize black and white. Motion lines, making the background black to show a character is thinking, that a scenario is abstract, that a moment is shcoking, a music stops moment, etc.
A panel with no background and just plain white show a cool relief moment where the intensity drops.
Lines around a figure can communicate something offscreen charging towards him. dense vertical lines can communicate immense pressure on the character. wavy lines communicate confusion.
Lines can communicate the speed of an action, the intensity of it, the mood of it, the direction of it.
Because the west always had colour, they never developed these techniques and so their comics appear stiff and lifeless
Part of the problem is they don’t pay creators enough already, shit DC wants new editors with 5-10 years experience for 40K a year. Comics cannot be cheaper.
>get rid of color
And whats 4.99 would still cost 3.99
>sell in grocery stores
They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth”
>print anthologies
Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue
>go digital
Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
Nothing you say escapes the reality that, like all things, costs go up and price points follow.
What costs went up exactly? I think that's the problem here were is the money going? To executives and shareholders and marketing or to the people making the comics?
The cost of living, which means creators need more, which means every single part of the production line went up.
Please answer these genuinely: are you in America? Are you over the age of fifteen? If yes to both, are you sincerely autistic?
You can’t possibly need to ask the question “What costs went up exactly” if you’re not a fricking 12 year old or moronic and a complete and total dependent on your parents.
Nta, but it sounds like the solution is to move operations to areas with a lower cost of living, and utilize modern, electronic communication to it's fullest extent. There's no need to use conventional offices for the vast majority of white collar work these days, let alone having these offices in some of the most expensive parts of the country.
>Nta, but it sounds like the solution is to move operations to areas with a lower cost of living, and utilize modern, electronic communication to it's fullest extent
You’d be moving out of the country which then increases shipping capability and costs.
You sound like a third worlder looking to leach production now. They already outsource much of the art to foreigners for this reason.
As seen from DC’s recent job postings they aren’t even paying up to the cost of living in the Burbank area so that’s a non-issue
>third worlder looking to leach production
I'm an American, dude. It's just that I live in a rural area. Speaking of that, just moving out there and decentralizing would help a lot with costs.
>inb4 shipping expenses
Fricktons of stuff gets produced out where I'm at and shipped elsewhere all the time, and it's working just fine.
Rural areas don’t get much corporate migration because you lack the infrastructure. Housing costs aren’t anywhere near the same as operational ones.
Likely the same hick in this reply so it makes sense this would be your takeaway
>lack the infrastructure
Bruh, I live in close proximity to both an expressway and a commercially navigable river, what do you mean by "lack of infrastructure"?
What's your problem, wienersucker? Considering what editors do, why do they deserve more money for sitting on their ass and then give some awful suggestions to the script or artists?
They “deserve” more money because the cost of living went up. Same reason moronic burger flippers deserve a bump and even more moronic gas station attendants do.
Nta, but you never answered my question as to what the hell you mean by "lack of infrastructure".
He's a commiefornitard afraid that even more people will leave his state and leave him to be torn apart by the savages. The fact that he's trying to push "muh flyover country" when the scamdemic proved that so long as you have an internet connection you can be parked out in bumfrickistan and as long as your work is done and at the same high quality, you can draw it up in a Jamaica shack parked next to avocado trees and sea breezes. Everybody fricking wins in that scenario except for the executive who's left worrying about his rising mortgage rates, which is why they seethe so much over work-at-home.
It's around the average except you don't even need to leave the house. You could even get a second job and be really well off.
>It's around the average except you don't even need to leave the house
The job listings are on-site in Burbank.
You clean the washroom yet cletus? How about shoveling the shit from the horse stalls next?
Why? You need to be in an office to review shit online?
I bet you call people city slickers if they’re wearing pants with no stains on them huh?
I bet you think that literally everyone outside of urban areas are either farmers or miners.
I bet you think you're a genius for writing people in their underwear punching each other. But you're not. You're a moron.
All the more reason to question if all the peope involved in the production of one comic are necessary. There is usually a writer and an illustrator that's 2 people more people involved will mean more money spent.
Maybe if you take your pills and take a deep breath before throwing a fit next time you will be able to follow simple reasoning
>What costs went up exactly?
Stock dividends.
>it’s executives and stocks!!
Jfc go back to your fricking Coyote v Acme threads you 12 year old samegayging communist. Nothing you’re saying is germane to the topic at hand.
Oh this should be good. Give me a few paragraphs on the subject kid. What do “stock dividends” have to do with comic prices. Most of the companies aren’t even publicly traded. The big 2 are subsidiaries of companies so big the the budgets of entire comics divisions are a mere line item holders don’t even notice.
You fricking moron. Warner Bros doesn't pay a dividend, and Disney currently yields a minuscule 0.33%
Comics used to sell in the millions so companies could negotiate a much lower unit cost with printers. That’s one benefit of having an industry run by cranky old israelites and wops. The milkshake types aren’t negotiating shit.
>executives and shareholders and marketing
THESE ARE COMIC COMPANIES! THERE ARE NO "SHAREHOLDERS AND MARKETERS" AND THE "EXECUTIVES" ARE DISNEY/WB PEOPLE WHOSE SALARIES AREN'T FROM THE COMIC DIVISION!
HOW CAN YOU BE THIS IGNORANT?!
everything from paper to transportation.
Fpbp
Do I wish they were cheaper? Yes. I also wish a gallon of milk hadnt gone up almost 70 percent in price since 2019.
sounds like it's completely unsustainable
It’s pretty stable and sustainable, losers like you just don’t like the idea that there’s a small industry that isn’t obsessed with growth.
Sure if you factor in being propped up by licensing money and corporate parents. But if you’re talking about comics as a viable business, that’s over with.
I’m not factoring those in because they aren’t propped up. If you’ve ever worked in a corporation you’d understand how interdepartmental money budgets work. Warner owns HB (space ghost) Warner owns Thundercats, dynamite licensing money went to Warner not DC.
And that only applies to dc and marvel.
>small industry that isn't obsessed with growth
LMAO both the Big 2 are glorified R&D divisions of humongous conglomerates obsessed with squeezing every drop of money out of the characters. It's only a matter of years before Marvel outsources and licenses all comic production old and new, if not close shop entirely.
40k ain't bad for sitting on your ass all day.
Really glad someone listed all this before the usual suspects made their suggestions again.
The worst part is the morons came in and said all the moronic shit anyway. This is genuinely a case of the thread being ended in a single reply.
>And whats 4.99 would still cost 3.99
any source on this ?
there are very very pure black and white printers in the comic industry, everything is already setup for color and the cost of ink isn't much different, once everything is going it effectively costs the same for black and white as it does color, the only major factor being 1 less artist on the production side.
>40K a year
I live in Pooristan, they should hire me as a writer and I'll do a better job and I pay more in taxes too but that's good money for Pooristan.
>And whats 4.99 would still cost 3.99
that's brillant, fool
do you even trade?
Manga found a way to do all that, and is currently eating your lunch
>200 pages for 9 bucks
yeah, problem is most of that is possible because of unpaid slaves
And yet you don't constantly hear the mangaka b***hing about being underpaid but you constantly see the people working in american comics crying about it (and even in this very thread people are saying working in comics is basically slave labor considering the shit pay).
Because Japanese are "profession" i.e. they hold it in until they kill themselves. Wages in Japan are shit as well. It's more or less the same: People who make money make a ton, people who don't can never retired.
So... americans are lazy, talentless and full of themselves? that's the reason? Ok.
More on the lines that the Americans who weren't "lazy, talentless, and full of themselves" got jobs elsewhere. Video Games in particular comes to mind.
ah yes, videogames, the other industry that pays like fricking shit, where a software developer could make 4-5x at entry level compared to games but they suck so much at their job gaming is all they could get work with, or in cases like blizzard, it was people's dreams to work there so they pay them like shit and exploit them till they frick off entirely and then pick the next person who is starry eyed and wants to work at their dream company. real fricking good comparison.
God i wish those trannie writers in DC/Marvel would do the same and basically suicided themselves from overworking...
I want everyone who works for DC gone. All of them.
And finally...let Marvel buy DC. Let the Mouse have it all
Cost of living is absurd in America compared to Japan, 30 percent higher. They also don’t have 100L people flowing through the border monthlydriving down wages.
The frick is a hundred liter person?
100K is what I meant. That’s called a typo anon. First time using the internet?
I honestly thought it was intentional and some sort of diss I didn't know, like an esoteric fat joke.
the japanese for the most part, if I remember right, own their intellectual property, a mangaka dies, they don't send what they were working on off to another person with few exceptions, they arent mindlessly working on someone else's work, every book sale they get a cut, every merch sale they get a cut, every deal they make they get a cut. there are some adaptations, there are some people who piggyback of other works on contract, but the vast majority are working on their own ip, and while they do slave away at it, they are paid for the work on a per page basis.
They don't own them but you don't usually see continuations because that's simply not the japanese way, americans always drive things into the ground, not just comics but tv shows or movie franchises too.
The standard is a shared copyright unless the work was specifically contracted out.
Basically neither party has total control unless there is a buyout of the rights.
Also false. The "manga is outselling American comics in America" nonsense comes from people counting only trades and ignoring floppy sales. Both are a niche in America.
It's hard to count floppy sales when no one releases them anymore.
People use Bookscan because they're literally the only actual numbers we get, with floppies your best bet was estimates, and even those stopped being released 2 years ago.
This is a bullshit mindset. Comics are in trouble and need to be fixed, and throwing up your hands and saying there's no way to fix it is why nobody reads comics.
You’re just seething because anon said one of the things you came ITT to say. You didn’t even state a single proposition.
comics dont sell
hires cheaper workers
comics sell less
hires cheaper workers,
comics sell less
hires activists who will live 8 people to a studio apartment with bedbugs so long as they can get the 'message' out
comics sell even less and crippled their image in the process
gg, comics are effectively dead and the only way to go forward is exploiting old work.
How come Todd and the Image people can get away with selling comics for $2.99-$3.99 with better quality packaging (cardstock covers, slick pages) but Marvel and DC have to sell at a $4.99 price point with terrible quality packaging (covers feel like tissue paper, pages are essentially newsprint)?
Because Image Comics runs a tight ship. If you get a comic published by Image, you don't see a penny if the comic doesn't make its money back. Image will eat a loss without sending you a bill but that also means you made no money.
Sink or Swim, the ultimate in meritocracy.
That doesn’t really answer my question tho. Independent publishers who don’t have the backing of multi-billion dollar companies are able to sell a better quality product for 33% less than the biggest publishers in the industry who do have that backing. I don’t understand it.
I did answer your question.
>Because Image Comics runs a tight ship.
They don't have corporate bloat. I can't make it any simpler.
>They don't have corporate bloat
That point went completely over my head in your last post, sorry Anon I’m diagnosed-moronic please bear with me. But yeah that makes sense. I remember when comics made the jump from 2.99 to 3.99 and someone at Marvel was basically like “we tested out $3.99 books to see if people would buy them, they did, so we’re making all our books that price now ‘cause we can”
Name the last image comic that was 2.99. I’ll wait
Spawn and all Spawn adjacent books are $2.99. Saga was $2.99 before the last hiatus.
The creators cover the costs and when the sales aren't great they just stop doing it, it's why you have a lot of abandoned stuff at 6 issues or a lot of announced shit that never came out.
Name the most recent image comic that cost 2.99
Sucks that digital comics don't sell but I think the only only prolly who buy them do so to rip and upload them
*only people prolly
>go digital
>Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
meanwhile
Manga is read by a demographic that:
A.) Traditionally read this stuff online to begin with
B.) Don't mind paying $3-5 a month for weekly uploads of content they'd have to pay $10 or more every few months for a couple of chapters
>They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth”
This is true so long as you pretend that Archie doesn't exist.
Part of the reason Archie works in grocery stores is that it's perceived as "safe" by grandmas and the like. Anything you sell in that environment is also going to have to have the same veneer of kid-friendliness, even if it's all bullshit inside. There are titles that could make it, like Disney or other comics based on kids' shows like Adventure Time and so forth. But Marvel, DC, Dark Horse, and Image (especially Image) aren't going to pass the Mom Test.
Is this an American only thing?
I remember seeing racks full of Marvel, DC, the Walking Dead and other titles in a Walmart when I was working in tacoland.
I don't know if it's American only, but it's definitely an American thing. We thrive on moral panics.
Wal Mart employee here.
I don't think we've ever sold a copy of Archie. We keep stocking it because "that's how things have always been done" and no one's willing to make the first effort to change it. Also, Archie refunds ALL costs including shipping and handling and postage if you send back the unsold copies. So even though we probably haven't sold a copy in years, we've lost $0.00 on it.
Hey question, what do you do with unsold stock of vidya/movies? Ship em back? or leak em to flea markets?
Most of the time we don't have unsold video games. Unlike comics, there is MASSIVE demand for games. They FLY off shelves.
As for movies, they just kind of sit forever until somebody buys them. IF anything gets tossed then I don't know about it because that's not my department. I'd guess that the same people that throw out damaged clothes and expired food would handle that, but I've never bothered asking what's done with unsold media after a certain amount of time or if there even is a policy for that.
ever see the big bin of games and movies all sold as 1-5$ each no matter what? when something goes unsold long enough that's where it goes.
>>go digital
>Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
going digital is an accessibility fix, not a cost one
make it a netflix model, get everything for one cost, its better to have someone read hundreds of comics than never get a single sale from them as long as the bandwidth cost is covered.
Because commie fricks ruined prices by glovalization and RAISE DAH WAGES
Glad someone got this out of the way at the start. I'm sick and fricking tired of sjw apologists coming into "LE COMICS ARE LE DOOMED" threads and posting their "brilliant ideas" that don't actually work in reality.
>They don’t want them, anybody who says this is moronic. It’s like saying “just build space stations if we’re out of resources on earth”
Ignoring the moronation of the comparison on multiple levels, this is and has always been a cope and lie from the industry. Stores will sell them, I bought a multi-pack of DC issues last week for a laugh in a walmart check out, but said grab bag random backstock issues are all they carry in the US.
In other countries stores carry them without complaint in better format than "Here's 3-4 random issues in a package".
>Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue
So go back to newsprint like people have been suggesting for decades?
comics could easily be cheaper if they actually sold.
>get rid of color
that takes out 1 artist (they usually have pencils, inker, and colorist) so it would make them cheaper, it would also allow them to be produced faster as well
>sell in grocery stores
this would have worked back with the begining and mid mcu hitting mainstream, but now, they want weekly turnover, but a gasstation, they could have a comic rack, take up very little space, and a few issues could sit for a long time, if they dont sell, refund whatever whole sale cost is (beyond material to print) and have them fire sale issues. if that still doesnt sell, refund everything and have them ship out the comics potentially with an Amazon deal, and just 1 or more into packages from amazon that are large enough to fit, its a shot gun approach, but odds are some people will get into them.
>Doesn’t save money on overhead page rates still remain the same and you get less revenue
it does if the comics actually fricking sold, see jump
>Has proven to be a sales failure which generates less revenue than the “niche” comic shops
you give out a shit service in a shit way with shit storys that no one gives a frick about. when iron man was popular, he was dead in the comics, replaced by ironheart. thor? jane forster...
digital isn't a failure for sales, the comics themselves are not what the audience wants, and they hire people to make stories who want to do their damndest to subvert popular heros.
>Nothing you say escapes the reality that, like all things, costs go up and price points follow.
cost goes up because sales go down and the people who still buy get gouged. if your story was worth reading, digital would remove cost to print, but how long ago was the last comic to be worth it? if I remember right didnt a hulk go on for almost a year before mask of agenda got pushed in it? who would get into a comic now that they know even if its good now, it may not be before the story ends?
Just print comics on cheaper paper like manga.
Tankobons are an objectively superior format to comic floppies, in terms of cost-effectiveness, content, storability, how they look on shelves, literally everything.
FPBP thread went to suit after this, as expected.
Screencapped so I can dunk on future hope shills
Why are you trying to 'sell' digital comics instead of focusing on the Netflix/Hulu model of selling bulk access to a catalog?
Or going full ad-supported?
Trying to sell individual issues is moronic. It will never work in an American context where people expect a pay-once-get-everything type model.
>nothing will work, even things that work perfectly well in other countries
Okay then. Let's end the whole medium.
if they had something worth buying, sure. $2.00
was perfectly reasonable for any given release..
shit is 6 bucks a pop now ,then there's what I'm getting for the money, 32 pages of some shithead nu-writer's agenda? frick that noise
>muh agenda
>posts a literal antifascist propaganda character
Imagine being made this dumb by 2D breasts.
nice self portrait
>6 bucks a pop now ,then there's what I'm getting for the money, 32 pages of some shithead nu-writer's agenda?
This is the problem. Considering the price of everything else I wouldn't mind paying $10 for my favorite comic, but I don't have any favorite comics anymore because they're all made by latinx troonys with pink hair and mental health issues preaching the woke gospel for ESGbux.
When the average manga that is basically 5 issues in one costs at least 10 without tax, 3 at most
a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Comics should take note of how manga handles things and make breezier pages. This would make it far easier to read. So many dialogue heavy pages could just be 2-3 pages(or more even)
>a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Manga has more art and less text. Because manga artists understand that it's a visual medium. While American artists feel the need to write as much dialogue as possible. It's basically cheap padding that slows the story down.
Even art wise a lot of manga will go with pages of talking heads or minimal art. Extravagant pages are kept for big moments. American pages feel very stuffed.
I can randomly browse raw scans of other genres and still arrive at the same thesis.
>American pages feel very stuffed.
You're full of shit. American comics have the problem where fricking nothing happens in any given issue, so that they can stall and stall to keep people buying issues.
They’re also written by idiots. These people can’t write. I refuse to buy comics because I would be supporting those who don’t deserve a job.
>. American comics have the problem where fricking nothing happens in any given issue, so that they can stall and stall to keep people buying issues.
That's a writing problem. Nothing will happen but it still feels like overstuffed dialogue and clumsy pages.
>Manga has more art and less text.
it has less of both.
It has more quality.
Not really. Despite the hype of “different genres” they are painfully repetitive
They only caught on in America as the general literacy rate has dropped.
>general literacy rate has dropped.
Considering that most american comic readers were reading the exact same repetitive capeshit before manga became popular I doubt literacy has anything to do with it.
>They only caught on in America as the general literacy rate has dropped.
Then may I ask why manga seems have such a large following in other countries like France?
France already has a pretty good comic industry, so adding manga into the mix was just adding another option into book stores and such
We could say that the rate dropped in france too. But that would be too easy.
Manga is mich more flashy. Kinda like Jack Kirby or Steranko were in the past. Thats why Joe Madureira or J. Scott Campbell became superstars.
Dont forget that the west only get the good stuff but the average Manga is not very good or give you enough for your money.
there was a point I was reading every single thing that hit the internet in raw format... you are fricking moronic.
what we get thats translated is the shit that hits the widest audience. do you think we are getting the niche shit about farming or fishing? they exist because they sell enough coppies to exist.
golgo 13, one of the longer running one, with 209 volumes, being ongoing since the late 60's never made it to the west, but it was selling enough for long enough that it kept going.
do you think we are getting the manga about a mountain god snake woman who interacts with children? fricking great manga but its so niche that how many people in the manga niche would read it in large enough volume to license it?
>America is illiterate
That explains why they buy manga. Nothing boobs and nudity.
There you go. Superheroes need to show boobs and say "frick".
I say axe all DC/Marvel titles as they serve no purpose. People don't read them and just watch the movies.
Then create new titles all about boobs and nudity. DC now means D-Cups.
>America's general literacy rate has dropped
that's not the "owned" you guys think it is.
If America has become illiterate so have their comics.
But Americans do buy manga. That's not about being "owned". It's stating a fact. Sex sells.
yes, they do.
but
is illiterate
>That explains why they buy manga
it's merely a non-sequitur
gringos are pushed away from their comics because comic writers are moronic
comics may have no sex appeal to you because comic writers were moronic enough to include preaching goblinos in their comics
sex appeal mirrors the intelligence, anon
>sex appeal mirrors the intelligence, anon
do you want to spend your time reading a story about several ugly fricks or if all else was equal, would you rather read the story where the main characters were at least nice to look at?
If literacy rates were the problem, we would see a general decline in all books sold. We have not. Book sales have been growing since 2012, with a dip in 2021-2022, when covid restrictions led to outsized growth across all home media.
Global manga sales minus Japan are also in line with global literacy rates, which have gone up.
All that aside, one of the scary things about US literacy rates is that our stats would be much worse without the proliferation of social media. Kids were forced to learn to read to interact online. Make of that what you will.
>All that aside, one of the scary things about US literacy rates is that our stats would be much worse without the proliferation of social media. Kids were forced to learn to read to interact online. Make of that what you will.
interesting
You're an idiot. You don't even know how to read statistics.
the younger generations are absolutely fricked if what's going on in schools is to be believed by people who tell us.
general education kids behaving worse and learning at worse rates than special ed/morons.
pre social media, I learned to read because of nintendo power and videogames, always constantly ahead of the rest of the class in reading comprehension but failed miserably at writing because our grammar is fricking moronic.
That's the thing, if we want kids to read, we need to regularly and proactively give them something they would want to read. PS are generally very slow to embrace things that would fit kids' interests. Lately, the only time anyone cares about reading material seems to be when teachers are personally pushing an agenda.
Social media, manga, Harry Potter, and even text-heavy video games have done more to incentivize reading than our schools, I'd reckon. Back in my day when the local school was still pretty good, they actually had comics reading time. Boxes full of comics, either donated by Marvel or retailers, get plopped on the floor, and it worked. Fun times were had. I don't know if they do that anymore.
>Not really
Always funny seeing amerilards cope like this. Your tears are delicious.
Tears or not, he's not wrong.
>hype of “different genres”
>They only caught on in America as the general literacy rate has dropped
Americans talking about manga are moronic. The only shit you get in America is second hand releases of already successful manga.
Most manga, especially non-shonen, sell less than most comics and most of the manga you homosexuals read is for free online.
Anon, most comics don't even sell 10k TPBs in a month.
Kek, no, friend. The awful selling manga does 20k per volumes. The really popular comics do 10k per volume in the first month.
20k is going to be in the top 5% of manga.
Most aren't getting anywhere near that.
last time I looked at numbers, anything below top 20 was sub 10k if not sub 5k, there isnt a manga in japan that sells that bad outside of doujinshi that is made in an ongoing series.
>a lot of manga also has less content and dialog per pages(this isn't a bad thing though)
Do they? Do capeshit comics still follow the 9 grid format with never ending speech bubbles?I haven't read them in a long as while so that's why I am asking.
>Do capeshit comics still follow the 9 grid format with never ending speech bubbles
This was never the norm you fricking casual. People like moore using it was for specific effect. King does it because he wants to be like moore. Jfc have a nice day
So they don't? Ok. You could have said that in 2 words.
They never did.
they wanna bring costs down?
color ink costs money, save it for the special evens
See:
Manufacture and distribution cost like $0.1/comic. Why do you think digital copies are just as expensive as physical copies?
On the digital side it’s because they don’t want to drive down the perceived value of an individual issue because they recoup much more per unit on floppies than they do on digital.
This big problem is they lost all advertising which used to be the real revenue driver and for some reason streaming/digital options for all media were sold as advertising-free which kneecapped them all.
Digital releases are priced to match physical ones so that the physical side of the market doesn't crash immediately.
>Digital releases are priced to match physical ones so that the physical side of the market doesn't crash immediately.
Sounds like a dogshit excuse tbh....
It is a shit reason, but that is why.
The comic market relies on whales that collect physical copies of series in bulk.
Even if it would be for the better long-term, they don't want to pay the short term price of killing that revenue stream.
>The comic market relies on whales
A lot of markets are switching over to this angle. Gaming is quickly driving out more moderate consumers.
Comics should be released in collected format just like regular books are. If someone decided to read Dickens or Dumas' stories in the original newspaper release way you'd call him an idiot because we all recognise that it's better to read them collected in one book. Comics need to make the same jump that books did two hundred years ago and let their stories sell or flop based on if they're good from beginning to end, instead of having stories go on just because people keep buying issues hoping a mystery or plot point will finally be resolved.
In that way they should be slightly more expensive than books, with the profits having to be split between artists and writers. Better art and binding equals a higher price, but you'll be more likely to pay that price because you know you'll get a finished story and not get cucked and not get an ending because they tried to string the readers along for too many issues and it got cancelled.
Way too much overhead tied up into individual releases. Even most French BD only release at about 70-80 pages at a time, which is 3 issues of an ongoing.
What you don’t seem to understand is that ongoings subsidize collections cost wise. They wouldn’t release them if they didn’t represent an ROI.
That’s a weirdly specific and moronic statement ignoring almost everything I said. Most manga don’t sell a single paperback ever, let alone 10K monthly. The entire point I made was the only manga seen in the west are guaranteed successes.
>Most manga don’t sell a single paperback ever, let alone 10K monthly.
Anon, even random no-name stuff like Groundless have sold over 500k volumes, and that's an ex-webmanga.
>another singular example
>That doesn't count because...uhh....it's not literally every manga ever
Nta but they literally were talking about manga in totality. That’s why singular examples (particularly action ones that were guaranteed sales successes) don’t really function as a gotcha
>particularly action ones that were guaranteed sales successes
homie it's a no-name manga published on some dude's website for the first half of its life before being officially published.
Tons of action series flop anyways.
>some dude's website for the first half of its life before being officially published
You don’t understand why that’s a guaranteed sales success?
If you think that's a guaranteed success then you might be a genuine moron who doesn't know the meaning of the words "guaranteed" or "success."
The amount of failed action webcomics out there could fill half the libraries in America.
>Tons of action series flop anyways.
That was literally my point.
They’re either moronic or underaged. They never answered my question before.
>That was literally my point.
see
Since you seem to be moronic.
Yes, I'm the moron because you're buttmad that manga sells far far far better than comics do. Cry more, maybe your tears will warp reality.
>doesn’t even know how to use the site.
Anon was agreeing with you moron
Didn't pay attention to the first half of his post.
500k copies is still very significant.
There are shitloads of obscure manga in Japan that make basically no money.
They don't sell enough GNs for them to ever make the jump. They would need new GNs to sell 50-100K all the time instead of most selling below 5K.
they are around 7 / 8 dollars you cant even get a fast food meal for that cheap.
Not even they’re mostly 4/5 dollars. Some 3 some 6.
Comictards should be HAPPY manga is outselling capeshit comics.
Would you rather deal with shitty stories having high sales or bad stories getting what they deserve.
It's a math problem
More units sold = lesser cost to make = more profit
You can sell floppies for 2.99 AND make a profit...If you sell 1m units a month. Unfortunately, the best selling floppy in a given month is 50k. A number that's also inflated thanks to variant covers.
Funny thing, Comic Books used to have ads in them, you know like magazines. Like what Shonen Jump does. Why don't Disney and/or Warner supplement their floppies with ads?
>the best selling floppy in a given month is 50k
90-100 actually most months but otherwise I appreciate you being less moronic than everyone else ITT after the first reply.
>Why don't Disney and/or Warner supplement their floppies with ads?
It’s the opposite, that’s why. Advertisers pulled out years ago because the reach wasn’t worth the cost. Same reason you see the same six low budget oxyclean tier ads on higher digit cable channels.
I don't count #1 inflation. And even by those numbers, that's bad.
To put things in perspective, King Spawn #1 written by Todd McFarlane did 500k. Yes it had variant covers but that's how much a #1 by a Superstar should sell. Similarly Spawn #300 did 262k. In contrast Spider-Woman #1 did 122k...before dying like every other worthless book. When I say 50k, I'm talking what can be expected with the current crop of talent.
If the industry were healthier, 100k a month for a non-number one would be fine from the big two and image. They wouldn't have raised the price cause again, more books printed = cheaper to make.
>King Spawn #1 written by Todd McFarlane did 500k
What about #2?
75k
We don't have numbers for later issues anymore after the Diamond break up. Picsreel is the last mostly accurate numbers we got.
Kek and you have the gall to shit on the other ones for having massive drops.
Hate on Todd all you want. Unlike the aforementioned Spider-woman, all of his new series (King Spawn, The Scorched, Gunslinger Spawn) are still going. Still making him a LOT of money.
That's in addition to Spawn reaching #350.
Glad comics are dying and manga is destroying them if you people still simp for fricking Todd like this. Embarrassing.
Is there anyone else in comics right now as good as Todd? Anyone?
Hundreds, probably even thousands.
>Hundreds, probably even thousands
Todd can’t write for shit but he doesn’t gouge his readers like Marvel and DC do so
can eat a dick.
Keep eating that slop, lil buddy.
>t. Peter David
Another slopper. Typical bot reply though.
NOTHING sells 90-100k anymore. NOTHING.
>best selling floppy in a given month is 50k
Goddamn, wasn't that USM numbers at Pete's lowest?
Didn't Batman and Spider-man used to reliably hit 400k+?
Even back in the 80's comics like Green Lantern only sold like 10 k. It's on the info towards the back of the books in the letters pages. Comics in America have never been as big as manga is in Japan.
> Green Lantern only sold like 10k.
Yeah but by that same metric, more comic runs and ongoings were happening and they typically came out faster and with a better profit margin than they do today.
I think the problem is that comics are trying to be seen as serious media now. They want to signal that they are not just silly things for kids to read.
I don't mind having some comics like that but it would be nice to have also cheap pulp fiction style comics even if they have ads and look crude
>Serious comics
That’s the problem, they want people to take awful stories seriously where nothing makes sense. The writing is actually moronic and outdated.
It's genuinely too late for the industry.
All the stuff that people suggest either doesn't work or should have been done 20 years ago.
Nothing left to do now but watch the shrinkage and see who ends up surviving in the end.
Hopefully the big 2 will be among the casualties.
40+ years of the comics industry pulling every cash grab scheme they could think of, coupled with the availability of other mediums, has made the price of comics irrelevant.
Goods and services HAVE to capture the emerging generations in order to stay relevant. Kids don't give a shit about comics. When's the last time comics even tried to market to kids? 20 years ago?
>beg parent to take you to specialty store (only place that sells comics)
>beg parent to shell out $X for pieces of paper they know you're going to wreck
>have no fricking clue what's going on in the story because you didn't buy the whole run plus the spin-off companion issues
or
>sit on ass at home
>free on-demand access of literally thousands of hours of cartoons
not a difficult choice for kids
>Kids read manga not comics
>Manga has all sorts of adult scenarios
>Manga generally avoids politics
>American comics are aimed at adults
>But clearly written for kids
>Lack any adult scenarios
>Shove in politics because.. reasons
I pirate anyway but I’ll be nice when this industry dies and something new takes its place
Cover cost is a limited way of looking at the pricing problem. We should also be looking at the publisher-distributor/retail breakdown of the price.
In the direct market back when Diamond ruled it, it was 38%-17%-45%, publisher-distro-retail. I do not know what it's like at Lunar and Penguin, but I assume that system has been carried over. In my estimation, the better breakdown for a healthier market is 50-10-40 or 50-5-45. Especially at the mid-to-lower end publishers, they need a better margin to actually survive, much less have the flexibility to lower cover price. Diamond was essentially an order aggregation and reshipping service, and 15%~17% for that from the entire fricken industry was highway robbery. Retailers also enjoy a higher discount than other comparable retail sectors because of non-returnability. In a way, the DM is something they imposed, and they need to be willing to give some points up if they want the industry to be attractive to more publishers. Caring only about 2 or 3 major publishers is what got the industry to the place it's in.
Everyone has to give something - publishers need to lower price, distributors and retailers need to give up points - in order for the industry to improve. Which is probably why it's not going to happen as long as the major players remain the same.
$3 physical and $2 digital and $10 a month to get access to all new issues digitally the day they would normally hit stores. Maybe $15 a month to get access to previous issues as well. Companies have to eat and people will have choices depending on their budget and how many comics they want each month. Maybe a digital pull list with a discount.
Put it into an anthology. The weakness of the Western comic book release format is that everything is so compartmentalized and yet expected to be interconnected, and you need to buy every issue of every run individually which is confusing to the consumer. Putting Justice League and Batman and Superman and Action Comics all together in the same publication where they all reference each other makes the most sense, DC Comics' move a while back to publish cheap omnibuses in Walmart's checkout corners was the most logical move I've seen them make in a while. Just do that but digital.
You did it, you solved it. I can't stand jumping around
>oh goodie, a discount!
>2 FCUKING BUCKS OFF
prices are still bloated.
>$10 bucks is a pain in the ballZ
No. $3 no more ni less and allow me to pay monthly.
How do comic shops stay afloat now, isnt the profit margin on selling comics so small?
Most shops get by by expanding what they sell. Board games, figures, manga, and so on. The big thing comic shops do to get by is sell back issues. That is a market that is still doing pretty well. Sales for current ongoing comics for shops are down across the board.
Manga seems to have a better grasp on the art aspect than American comics, which is the most important part. Design/appeal, paneling, and action wise, the average manga usually does it well. My only real problem with manga art is that they crunch so often, they have to use photobashing and tracing and thus ruin the nice foreground art.
I wish American comics did better in this regard. Part of the problem too is that the industry's horseshit has piled up to meet them face to face because they ran all the talent out of the business.
According to inflation, just over two bucks, realistically three dollars for normal issues and 5 for giant sized.
No more than $2. Get rid of glossy paper to help with that.
I think they should push mail subscriptions. I'm not really sure why they don't. Both Marvel and DC have official means to subscribe to comics and get them in the mail, at a 40% discount in a lot of cases, and nobody knows about it. Why don't they give little advertisements in the box when you buy a new Spider-Man game, or play commercials on Disney and Warner Bros owned TV networks and streaming services?
I think if more people knew about it they'd be willing check out comics in that way, when they'd be reluctant to go to a comic shop and set up a pull list.
People do check out comics, they just drop them once they realize how shit they are.
No, most people do not ever start reading comics, but everyone knows these characters and I think they'd be interested in trying out a subscription if they knew about it.
Marvel and DC or rather Disney and Warner make more money on T-shirts than they do on Comics. That's why you don't see ads.
It baffles me they still print this useless shit.
If they don't keep the characters in print, they could lose various legal rights (Trademark, Copyright, contracts where the creator gets the rights back if something goes out of print). While I don't rule out there is some old guard who want to make comics, more than likely its to cover their asses.
The recent Alan Scott book comes to mind. Use him or lose the trademark, quality be damned.
They could make more money on comics if they sold them to people other than in specialty shops that are only for existing fans.
cool, they sell them online and in bookstores. Have for 30+ years. DKR was in bookstores and Grant Morrison was rich off Arkham asylum in 89. Oh guess what, the sales aren't there either anymore.
DC has several graphic novels that sell well but that's obviously not what I'm referring to.
anon, everytime a tpb is collected, it's at a bookstore. That isn't the issue. People don't want them.
That is a tremendous failure of marketing, and I hope that someday someone actually takes initiative and does what needs to be done to bring the people who are already fans of these characters to the comics for the first time.
It's not marketing, it's quality.
This. The writing is really, really bad.
It's probably both. Anime and manga are everywhere.
It's not true. You can find some examples of particularly terrible titles, but both companies are publishing perfectly good books right now, and to pretend like it's all garbage is actually the kind of toxic negativity that comic writers are always whining about.
Yeah except those books aren't selling. We wouldn't even be having this topic if the books were selling.
I know they're not selling, but it's not a quality issue. Incredible Hulk or Green Lantern right now are both excellent.
They’re all trash and a complete waste of time. Who the frick cares what happens when the next writer comes in and destroys all of it?
>I haven't read it but it's trash
>And even if it's not trash, someone will eventually write a bad book so why enjoy anything now?
I'm starting to understand why comic writers hate their fans so much.
>t. Shill
If this were how things worked then I could write anal absorption vore featuring Gilgamesh and destroy the whole idea of heroes in fiction.
>but both companies are publishing perfectly good books right now
This is where you’ll name 5 or 6 dogshit comics and act like the only reason people don’t like them is culture war brain rot
Except this is the state of Trades when it comes to DC and Marvel. This doesn't effect Image and Vertigo stuff but good luck finding a straightforward numbered collection of trades.
>That is a tremendous failure of marketing
It's odd to me that we are generally loathe to give marketing people credit for the success of a book, yet we're quick to give them the blame for failures. This is not quite dishonest, but also not completely forthcoming, is it?
You have to look at this from the perspective of a non-comics reader. Comic trades have poor marketing because the books themselves are unmarketable. Quality arguments aside, the art of most comics is not readily appealing, especially when collections are of classic works whose aesthetics have fallen out of style. The price points of comics and trades are not competitive, and the reasons don't matter to consumers. The size of trades is not convenient, since there are limits to how much comics can be shrunk before the lettering becomes illegible.
Marketing and the age of the characters themselves are the least of comic's problems, because Superman Vs Meshi sells okay, One Op Joker sells okay, and I expect Spiderman Octopus Girl to do better than all of those once it is published.
The product is the problem.
there is a point where marketing makes you aware of something's existence
and there is a point where marketing makes you loathe its existence.
I AM the target demo for selling comics, but I have never seen a comic advertised once outside of some creators making their own and using their own platform to market it themselves.
>I AM the target demo for selling comics, but I have never seen a comic advertised once
That's a function of publishers relying on their captured audience, and the (lack of) success of comics as a whole. Comics doesn't do well enough to warrant mass advertising.
People don't seem to realize this, but manga doesn't advertise either outside of their own ecosystem. Not by itself. What those publishers do is to treat digital distro as advertising, the same way the magazine bricks are in Japan, dumping them on the market for next to nothing. The rest of the advertising is done by news sites, fans, and booksellers who are evangelical and self-motivated, because covering/promoting manga directly benefits them.
Comic readers used to be evangelical. They're not anymore except for a handful, and those guys tend to be accused of being far-right by the mainstream (and failing) comics journalism who want to control the narrative on everything. Toxic is an overused word, but it's very apropos for describing current state of comics. No sane outsider would look at whats going on in comics and think "hey, this seems like a nice hobby to get into." No amount of advertising can fix that.
Comics should cost whatever people are willing to pay for them.
For me the thing keeping me from buying more comics isn't the price tag, it's the fact that 99.95% of comics published in the abominable year 2024 are ones I don't want even for free.
This overwhelming negativity is unwarranted. Marvel, DC, and Image are all putting out several good to great books right now.
>This overwhelming negativity is unwarranted
I assure you it's absolutely warranted sir and/or madam.
>Marvel, DC, and Image are all putting out several good to great books right now.
Your idea of what's good is irrelevant in this discussion. In my opinion there's maybe two readable books total being published in all of America. And I do remember a time when that number was 20.
didnt the hulk a few years ago have a good run for about a year, and then it went off the deep end into social justice shit, even if the runs are currently good, would I EVER trust them enough to get invested now?
So what happens to the characters if DC stopped making comics?
Depends on the character. Pretty sure they could stop publishing Batman and Superman and still own them lock, stock, and barrel but they have to publish some form of Wonder Woman comic in order to retain rights to her, that’s why there was that Busiek WW mini they published between pre and post Crisis.
Actually y’know what Superman might be that way too, I know the reason we got Snyder directing Man of Steel was because if WB didn’t get the cameras rolling on a Superman movie before a certain date they’d owe the Siegel estate a frick ton of money. Not sure if that would apply to comics too.
Freemium digital
You cannot expect to compete with tv, music, video games, manga etc at the prices comics cost currently. Go "free" or die. Besides, if comics are just IP farms for their media conglomerate overlords they should want as many eyeballs on the IP as possible for mixed media promotion
The price needs to come down. Disney and WB don't really care about comics, but they see them as good supplements to their overall Marvel and DC franchises. The issue is that while the price does need to come down, and things need to be tried to bring in new readers, that would lower profits in the short term at least, and then they'd draw the eye of their corporate overlords. I think right now Disney and WB don't really care about the comics as long as they're in the black and not the red.
That’s actually really smart. Have a free subscription tier that’s a couple months behind with ads and a paid tier that’s day-and-date with no ads.
Free. The government has an obligation to keep it's citizens alive and in good health. That includes good and shelter. Let people get what they need to live and everything else is optional .
I personally hold out hope that sooner or later, either Marvel or DC will hire someone who isn't satisfied with just treading water, but will actually focus on getting comics in front of people and gaining new fans.
Anime and Manga has taken over. None of my friends or randos I talk to in my age group care about capeshit. All of them are into reality shows, drama, normie shit, or anime.
A 12 cent comic in 1964 should only cost $1.25 in 2024 when adjusting for inflation. We are essentially paying 4 times more now for comic than our parents and grandparents were paying when they were our age and that's all thanks to hyper monopolization which over past 50 years has led to most major businesses in most industries in America being owned and operated by small number of large corporations, which has resulted in price gouging of consumer base to drive up capital market price of their share value and increasing their stock bonuses. In other words, the prices are never going to come down. Until government breaks up these big corporations you're going have to learn to enjoy paying $15 for cheeseburger, $10 for coke, $5 for comic book. Shit is fricked.
Basically all of this is wrong. Comics are expensive because they don't have any new readers, and they have to raise prices for the hopelessly addicted collectors.
I'd rather wait for trades of good stories and shell out 20 bucks for higher quality paper than pay 6 fricking dollars for something that may end up being a dumpster fire and I also can't put it on a book shelf where it looks nice and also I need to see advertisements in my thing I paid 6 dollars for.
Significantly less than $4.99 for 19 pages. Most of it is drama shit and maybe just a single page or even one panel of a superhero in a costume actually punching a bad guy.
It is fricking weird to see something made in the late 80s be 30+ pages of hero vs villain stuff. And for a dollar.
I don't see why they should cost anything more than $3.99.
Even that is already a big ask.
Make comics good.
Simple as.
We keep having this stupid discussion. It all boils down to this.
Nobody is going to buy shit they're not going to read.
If that Disney exec who claims "make good media" is an "alt-right nazi buzzword" is any indication, that's nevee going to happen anytime soon. They truly believe they are making gold.
>Make comics good.
The most popular manga get away with being terribly written and still sell millions, if not billions.
(
's pic related)
Also worth pointing out that the terrible writing of a lot of big shounen manga is partially related to rushing out 16-some pages a week. So maybe regular weekly releases are part of the key to building and maintaining readership.
I'm not reading an action comic for the fricking writing, when I watch Robocop I'm not watching it because I think the dialogue is super compelling and thought-provoking, I'm watching it because I enjoy seeing Robocop shoot thugs in the streets, blow the shit out of dudes armed with giant sniper autocannons, shoot corrupt corporate buttholes out of windows, and that one dude get liquefied by the car after getting covered in toxic waste.
Robocop (the first one at least) has great writing though.
Not really, it's full of cheesy corny one-liners and extremely stupid dialogue, (for frick's sake, the climax of the movie has Robocop's main directive of not harming an employee of the company be overridden by the older guy screaming "YOU'RE FIRED!")
But that's fine because Robocop isn't trying to be a serious examination of corporate corruption and its sleazy culture, it's a satirical one, and that includes dialogue that fits in a satirical setting.
That's why the writing is great. It knows what it's doing and is doing it right.
That's not what I'd consider "great," I'd consider that "fine."
Writing that just accomplishes what it sets out to do is what you'd expect from a story, anything below that is just a failure in writing.
Robocop is a good movie, but fricking hell is there an annoying, pretentious habit that people have where they treat it like high fricking art, like it's the only movie they've ever seen with a satirical tone that isn't explicitly a comedy.
You backed yourself into a corner.
It sounds more to me like you automatically equate action=dumb when that's not necessarily the case. There are other action movies with good writing, it's not like Robocop is the only one. There's nothing wrong with liking dumb movies, or dumb manga, but Robocop is a bad example for when you're trying to make a a point about how you like dumb stuff, that's the only point I was trying to make. Pick something genuinely stupid like Batman & Robin. Or even something like the Matrix is a good parallel to JJK. The Matrix isn't entirely stupid, but it's clearly leaning hard on "look how cool everything is" to distract you from a lot of the nonsensical ideas, similar to Jujustu Kaisen.
I dunno, there are people out there who'll try to say that The Matrix is extremely deep and layered, and would probably say it's better-written than Robocop.
I think Independence day is a movie that's liked for the action, but no one would defend its' writing.
Sure, but that's a super low bar, since the action in that movie isn't that great either.
There's always going to be people who elevate the writing in a movie they like, doesn't mean the movie is actually well-written.
The Matrix is a pretty good example, it's the quintessential "style over substance" movie of the late 90s/early 2000s (especially now that the last 15 years of the Wachowskis' careers have exposed them as hacks with shit like Jupiter Ascending and Cloud Atlas and whatever that last Matrix movie was), right alongside stuff like Equilibrium and Blade.
A good modern example would be something like The Raid, where the writing is whatever, but the action is fricking phenomenal.
But yea, I think a lot of people who read comics kind of focus on the wrong thing, people don't watch stuff like John Wick for the writing, they watch it for the action, and if the action is good, then as far as they're concerned the movie is good.
In the same way, most people who are reading action shonen #297345 aren't reading it for the writing, they're reading it for the powerlevel wank and to see action scenes of people beating the shit out of/murdering each other.
The Matrix isn't stupid at all, it just leans hard on the rule of cool.
because these people cant possibly imagine sending a message in any way that isn't direct in your face insult to your intelligence and put anything that understands sublty on a pedestal so long as they agree with the message, but shit on anything they don't.
>extremely stupid dialogue, (for frick's sake, the climax of the movie has Robocop's main directive of not harming an employee of the company be overridden by the older guy screaming "YOU'RE FIRED!")
Explain how that's stupid instead of clever.
Actually don't bother, you should just have a nice day.
>I'm watching it because I enjoy seeing Robocop shoot thugs in the streets, blow the shit out of dudes armed with giant sniper autocannons, shoot corrupt corporate buttholes out of windows, and that one dude get liquefied by the car after getting covered in toxic waste.
I liked the movie because the writing was good. Not because he just "blew shit up."
And it's still more entertaining than your gay shit.
>terribly written
Comic fans dares to splutter this shit out of his windpipe given the current state of the industry.
>maybe regular weekly releases are part of the key..
What the frick is wrong with you people?
Why don't you ever look at the core principle of the matter.
JJK does well because it's ENTERTAINING.
People discuss it because it's FUN like
says.
Not because Gege is a fricking economist but because he knows how to keep the reader captivated for a good 159 chapters now. Get this through your fricking head. People don't read Naruto because it's fricking easy to access, for frick's sake it's from an island how many miles away they ENJOY IT BECAUSE IT'S FRICKING FUN
FRICKING FUN
FRICKING FUN
NOT BECAUSE OF THE FRICKING ECONOMY.
Make something unique, make something people can discuss, something that can grab the entertainment sphere and you have SALES.
Because they care about they produce and their writers/artists are put on a strong leash so they don't act like morons on twitter.
>slavery
frick you
I have to admit that I'm continually impressed by Naruto's lasting appeal. Thought it would fade away after its' run was over, but it keeps getting new fans.
Then why do monthly manga, which can be more fun and frequently have better art and writing than weekly manga rarely hit the same level of mass popularity as the weeklies?
But they do, they just don't sell as many volumes because being monthly means fewer chapter releases, which means fewer volumes to sell.
Stuff like Fullmetal Alchemist, Berserk, Vagabond, Hunter X Hunter, Sailor Moon, and Blue Exorcist were/are all published on a monthly (or even more sparingly in the case of HxH, Berserk, and Vagabond) schedule and they're among some of the most popular properties of all time.
If people really REALLY like what you're making they'll gladly wait a month for it.
First of all, they need to print them on lower quality paper. I have no idea why they print floppies on paper that is better quality than one they use in trades. Maybe offer a cheaper lower quality version in supermarkets and the direct market gets the nice glossy paper? I know that's what Archie does, the stuff they stock at Walmart have cheap as shit paper but also are a much more affordable price for what they are
Can the market actually collapse? And will it?
Yes, and it already is. Not thanks to any business decisions by anyone in comics, but because Disney and WB are going to derisk from these mega mergers because they're hurting the brands.
The magazine system works great for Japan, and does here in the indie/fanfiction circuit.
I actually forgot that's how jump does it. I just think they need to bundle all their monthly issues together. Could even do a subscription to get the magazine sent to your house monthly. Personally I think they really need to get their new releases free online for a limited time. We'd probably see alot of new people jumping into comics just because it's convenient. If you want to read an older issue just pay the subscription online and get unlimited access to the backlog.
Straight up, the Hitotsubashi Group is more horizontally integrated and nepotistic than Marvel and DC's conjunctions ever could be, and they still manage to pull in a massive international revenue with less money spent per head at all levels.
That's entirely because they understand that they're selling a product, where DC and Marvel think they're a job program for israelite frickups. An online comic service with easy delivery would only allow a lot of people to get crap, instead of increasing supply. All the current issues in creative industries are due to strangled supply and supply myopia.
You know why that is? It's because Hitotsubashi - by extension Shogakukan, Shueisha, and Viz - is a completely private family company. They can take unilateral action. They do not answer to shareholders, their focus is not diluted by people with competing interests, and long term goals are not subverted by short term greed or a suicidal allegiance to "maximizing shareholder value."
Corporate absolutism and privatization only work if your corporate absolutists have a long term plan for the business. Private equity groups take companies private, but they're just as responsible for stupid business decisions and instability as any of the publically traded companies are. They're privately able to move as efficiently into neoliberal suicide.
The only way for us to get back to a place where moderately successful ventures are feasible are for large conglomerates to share the market (by breaking themselves up) or the power (by being regulated into common carriers, or into not being able to snuff out competitors).
I don't get why they don't just bundle all the releases into one magazine each month. Would be easier for everyone. Could release new issues online for free then require a payment after a month or 2. I should be able to pull up a marvel or DC website and be able to read all the new issues that released for free.
>I don't get why they don't just bundle all the releases into one magazine each month.
>We'd probably see alot of new people jumping into comics just because it's convenient.
Both DC and Marvel pubblish over 50 magazines monthly, each. This means your "convenient" magazine would be over 1000 pages and cost around $200 per issue.
I looked up the cost of manga and shonen jump in Japan for shits and giggles.
It's about 4-5 bucks for the 200 page books and 2 bucks for the shonen jump issues.
Prices over here are so much worse, it's amazing.
The same as a loaf of bread.
Comics are designed to be disposable entertainment and should be priced as such.
>500 pages
>$3
>every week
How the frick does Japan do it?
slavery
also high and cheap print runs
>slavery
Shut up, still butthurt G -1 got nomitated under 15M usd instead of your Chinkajeet Sloopa Poopa?
Literally everyone reads manga in Japan, from toddlers to 90-year-old grannies. They have perfect distribution, this shit is available in every single store everywhere in the country as well as online. And both the publishers and the writers are autistically obsessed with trying to find out what the crowd wants and appeal to them instead of shitting out whatever they please and demanding it's praised.
Less cultural stigma about reading comics, a culture based on public transport, there's a better production model and companies actually trying to appeal to readers. There's a reason manga publishers have those monthly character popularity polls. Imagine if that happened in here.
>There's a reason manga publishers have those monthly character popularity polls. Imagine if that happened in here.
Really. Just once I'd like to see the Mid Two put up an online feedback form or popularity poll. I think the biggest problem with both companies is that they're so utterly uninterested in what the audience enjoys.
>Just once I'd like to see the Mid Two put up an online feedback form or popularity poll.
Hey, back in the day. And there was always the letters page.
A modern survey like that would be a shitshow. They wouldn't show the results.
If they did the results would be completely cooked.
>Well folks, going by the survey results, our audiences are incredibly invested in romance stories involving Blacks. In order to reflect market demands, every popular white female will be paired with a Black.
Ah, when The Golden Age of Fandom was still 13.
>let's rap
>groovy
>dig
This is a parody right
Q1) E (Anon is my friend)
Q2) C (The internet provides)
Q3) 1 (it should be 0)
Q4) Read manga (all the hours)
Q5
a) 3
b) 3
c) 1
d) 3
e) 3
f) 3
g) 3
h) 2
i) 3
Q6) Humour type
Q7) B, free on Cinemaphile
Q8) I don't eat breakfast
Q9) Archival records and Guinness World records.
Q10 ) D
Q11) British comedy panel shows
I have answered your survey, now cater to me, specifically, comic creators!
Post your addy anon so I can send your your portable color tv
>How interested are you in reading about:
>Black People
Is it just me or is that really really vague?
Not really? I think it's impressively to the point.
I dunno, are black people a genre now?
Is pollution a genre? It's asking about themes, you moron.
How the frick is "black people" a theme?
Also, they mix in actual genres like romance and sports.
>How the frick is "black people" a theme?
Today, obviously is. Back in the 70s, lots of historic firsts and black characters being added into books.
...by being something you can write comics about?
When the Denny O'Neil Long Hair Generation starting getting books. Such fun.
Yes.
>Shonnen Jump
>Not all the others
They use a cheaper quality paper for the inner pages
People are willing to read it because people in Japan take public transit a lot and want cheap entertainment to pass the time. In Burgerland everyone drives their own car so there's no demand for that and if it were the current culture would just have them look at tiktok phone shit anyway.
Your average manga artist gets paid far less than the average western comic artist and alsois expected to produce 1.5× to even double the amount of pages per month
Yeah because that's what's called "having a fricking job"
Modern writers coast off the rockstar primadonna contract standards set back when the industry was basically raped to death by the dumbfricks who demanded that standard, where they don't have to put out work at anything resembling an acceptable rate in return for what is an unreasonable amount of cash and benefits for the tiny amount of work they actually do.
Mangaka maybe deserve better, but at the very least they aren't able to shit out one 15 page issue with ads every month, when they actually make deadlines and get a fat stack of cash and benefits for it.
The entire industry is basically engineered to cater to the worthless homosexuals who couldn't handle "making deadlines" or "actually working for their pay" under Jim Shooter in the late 80s and that is basically a core component of what killed it.
>under Jim Shooter in the late 80s
That was after Shooter left. And NOBODY was making millions before 1990, dude.
>American comic writers get paid more to produce less
This is not the flex you think it is.
So americans are lazily, entitled and talentless. Let the american comic book industry die then.
If the 40s, a comic was a dime, a Coke was a nickle and so was a candy bar. Kids could choose to buy one or the other.
So, a comic today should cost whatever that costs now.
So like $2
Think a soda and a candy bar now is something like -- $3.50 in Biden Bucks at the grocery store.
The answer to this question is and will always be 'cheap enough to be affordable on a kid's budget.' When I was a wee lad bouncing on my father's knee $20 would get you one of those black and white Essentials books which were like 400-500 pages of silver and bronze age classic Marvel. Yeah it was printed on phone book paper, no it wasn't in color, but I didn't really care because that was a good value even as an unemployed teen. It was even priced competitively with manga which was and is very cheap.
Digital comic books are only a sales failure because they held off releasing them until after they were released in comic shops. That trying to double dip the market.
The correct answer is to give up doing colour and physical printing.
That could push the price down and break the comics out of the dingy shops because they aren’t selling well anywhere. So you better just cut the expense.
>give up physical printing.
So literally end comics? That's what that means.
>Digital comic books are only a sales failure because they held off releasing them until after they were released in comic shops.
Not only were digital releases delayed, they were priced the same as the floppies at the insistence of a group of retailers led by Brian Hibbs. Who incidentally probably also influenced the pencil-down decision during the pandemic shutdown. Both horrendous decisions that were as detrimental to the industry as the decision to embrace diversity writers (which Hibbs also championed.)
This select group of comic shops are the crabbiest bunch of crabs in a bucket who have ever crabbed.
At least some amount of money
I'm really confused by the people saying they should publish comics without color. Do you really think the way to make comics more popular is to make them shittier?
They're basing it off the Manga model, which uses toilet paper quality sheets, rare color spreads, and tosses in the low selling stuff with mega hits.
Monthly and weekly issues are made to be disposable, while the trade equivalents are made to be shelved and saved.
I base it off most color in comics looks like hell, and I would rather have well defined black and white apposed to color.
i should get paid to read the shit on the shelves
Circling back to the op, a $(1970) is officially 8 x $(2024) -- but really more like $10 or so.
The average kid back then was buying 8 to 10 comics a week (.15 to .20 era), but for the same money today he could buy perhaps 2 modern comics.
No more than 2 dollars. 2.50 absolute tops. They're meant to be bought on a whim and when they release too many books at once it becomes impossible to keep up. A comic book should be someone deciding how badly they really want candy and a soda.
Anyone suggesting that price affects sales is moronic. NO ONE would take modern American comics if they were giving them away for free.
Wizard Magazine even tested this in the 90s post-crash era. They set up a stand/booth/table (in like a rec center or something similar) where you could take 1 comic or 1 pancake, but not both. They had dozens of people of all ages, both males and females, come up to their stand/booth/table. They gave away 0 comics.
That would be awesome if I could trade comics for pancakes, I could get rid of some of this shit and eat well while doing it
>Wizard Magazine even tested this in the 90s post-crash era. They set up a stand/booth/table (in like a rec center or something similar) where you could take 1 comic or 1 pancake, but not both. They had dozens of people of all ages, both males and females, come up to their stand/booth/table. They gave away 0 comics.
That's amazing.
if modern comics were 200-500 pages long and 3-5$ I would roll dice every now and then when something new starts
And yet every time they do anthologies they fail.
It's time to accept that your cliches aren't the solution. If anything they'd only make it worse.
>if modern comics were 200-500 pages long and 3-5$
Anon that’s not a tenable price point
At least 20 dollars maximum
>people keep bringing up paper stock
At this point the differences in paper prices aren't enough to affect the cost of production by any significant degree.
>At this point the differences in paper prices aren't enough to affect the cost of production by any significant degree.
^This.
What actually makes a difference is print run/circulation, color, and printer location.
After a certain point, the cost of offset print grows at 25% the rate of increase in print run. Printers run hundreds, even thousands of books during calibration alone. It's not that big a cost.
Color is 4 times the work of b/w printing, and the paper requires additional chemical treatments.
Printing in Asia costs less than half of printing in North America, and that's including surface freight. The only reason comics aren't all printed in Asia is because it's treated as a periodical. No one is competent enough to complete a book 1 month in advance to allow for the shipping.
I don't think even color is that much of a factor anymore.
Color prepress is not a factor. Color POD is not a factor. But on offset printing at scale? Still a huge factor. You're printing 4 screens on top of the black.
People these days get the wrong idea because most indies/self publishers, the kind who are crowdsourcing their stuff, are doing it through POD based on inkjet/laserjet tech. That stuff is way more expensive overall per copy, but the margins are different because they're selling it to you at 20 bucks a pop, and they aren't splitting the cover price with retailers.
In the "commercial" comics space, we're selling them to distributors at 38% of cover. Every little bit matters.
a comic should not cost more than 10k to produce per issue. from here you sell print issues, a month or so later you put them on a free for all subscription service. then you go on to produce voiceover for the comic, I say this alot, go look at the mission hill crap gets in your eye, as long as you have a good story, there you go you don't need animation, this could be an upcharge for the comic service, if the reader for the comics is able to move a jpeg around, zoom in, and do whatever other cuts it needs to without rendering, you also save quite a bit on bandwidth because audio alone can be compressed to hell and still be good enough and the comic pages are potentially already in a cache.
every time an arc concludes you have separate pay tiers for an overall rundown, see comistorian Batman White Knight 1 hour video as a blueprint on how to do this.
from here you have the data to know whats most popular, animate it if not go live action.
because the big comic people are warner brothers and disney, treating this endeavor as a loss leader where the ideas and story's you make here can get repurposed into movies or other projects to recoup.
potentially license out the platform for indie companies who can't, and pay out kind of like youtube premium does.
the people who buy comics now, just want physical copies, normal people who have a passing interest will use this service either with the voice over or overview and then when they really get interested in something go into the raw comic side.
>a comic should not cost more than 10k to produce per issue
That’s just insanity. This is you not realizing Japan is a cheaper country to live in than America.
>Japan is a cheaper country to live in than America
I don't think that's true for Tokyo. Which like 1/3 of the country lives in.
>print on cheaper pulp paper instead of that glossy shit that costs an arm and a leg
>get ads back in comics to eat some of the cost
>try and push in markets that aren't fricking superheroes to try and get some interest or better yet partner up with vidya/famous movies to create comics for their extended universes instead of just stagnating and ip farming
>try and push in markets that aren't fricking superheroes to try and get some interest
This is a big one. Kid's graphic novels do very well but there's not as much interest when they get older in whatever Image or IDW are putting out. Having well marketed entertaining genre stories that don't end in one book would be a big help.
>but there's not as much interest when they get older in whatever Image or IDW are putting out.
Doesn't help that most of IDW's relevant catalogue is licensed comics based on properties from the 80s.
Why is Manga affordable/decent in sales in Japan?
Just a different culture that’s more amenable to the medium?
All the reasons above that apparently aren’t good enough to lower prices like anthology magazines. Black and white stories etc all apply to manga.
Biggest difference I guess is most Manga is also done by one dude, drawing and writing it. Weekly, not monthly.
>Biggest difference I guess is most Manga is also done by one dude, drawing and writing it
Successful manga are not drawn by one person.
Here comes the coping...
It would be coping to ignore the fact that top mangaka all have multiple assistants. Both for art and for “office” duties
It's a cope because the art looks better and it's on time, meanwhile none of the top artists in comics can do more than 80 pages a year so you lot have to prop up some mediocre shitters as "great" because they can shit out 6 issues in a year (still not a lot). You also known damn well that not all mangaka have assistants but that fact makes you cry and shit your pants in anger so you ignore it, just like you ignored the previous anon's point that all creative decisions in writing and art are done by one guy to cope that that some of them have assistants to do grunt work.
Keep coping anon. Might as well namegay as Mr COPEacetic
I'm speaking facts while you're coping as to why the comic book industry is dying and manga is eating your lunch.
You’re coping because you’re seething. Continue to do both.
Your tears are delicious.
>y-y-youre crying!
>I-I’m not coping! Y-you are
Remember to buy a rope that can support your weight when reality becomes too much of a burden to bare anon
Yes, you're the one crying. Remember who's winning and who's losing.
manga is all traced and 3d assets for a weekly pipeline. they are generic as frick and full of tropes and copy and paste everything. there are only a handful of actual artists in the entire manga industry. there were more in the past, but even then they traced all the time. prince of tennis assistant interview discussed tracing all the sports magazines and pulling out when needed, retracing and adding face/logos as required. toner packs for schools, temples, vehicles, etc were bought by everyone. thats why everything looked the same all the time for backgrounds.
manga doesnt look better. you are literally too low IQ to tell you are getting just as shit a product as american comics. and the best artists dont work in comics and do it basically part time. thats why its so few pages a year. a single commission can net them thousands of dollars compared to wasting month on a single comic. working in video game or movie industry will pay them 10x as much for half the work of doing comics for a year. they arent slow. they are getting paid more doing other stuff that has higher priority and do the comic on teh side.
>can't even write in english properly
>judges others for being low IQ
There are tens of fallacies in your arguments but you like to abuse generalization the most.
>and the best artists dont work in comics and do it basically part time.
Lol, lmao even. Firstly there are more monthly magazines than weekly ones and secondly the greatest manga artists shit on all nips that do commissions or video games art(since most japanese vidya artists are themselves inspired by mangaka). I know that you are angry but please control your emotions. It will help you write a cohesive argument.
Fukin saved thanks for the tip.
>"manga doesnt look better"
>just explained why it looks better
You are so moronic, holy shit. Instead of whining you should DO WHAT THEY DO. moron.
You literally have a living example of how to do things the right way but you're too stubborn and proud to copy their homework. So you flunk the class yet again.
That's rich. Western artists accusing japanese artists of tracing and using 3d assets. How shameless.
>Using models acquired through licensed software to save time on sketch work is bad.
>Stealing copyrighted images off Google to trace is good.
I remember when a dude on a forum use Greg Land's art to show that comic art was better than manga art.
American comics will always be dogshit when compared to manga.
>for “office” duties
brining someone coffee is a useless job just like those guys that write "experience in programming" when all they did were some office duties for companies x and y. You will never be a real programmer or artist.
Yes they are. Look up all the highly popular *new* manga from the last 10 years that started off from people with no prior major series.
They’re just dudes in apartments who are dedicated to the craft and spend a lot of time drawing. Hence why so many have heart attacks young.
The guys with studios who can delegate work are like the top tier manga creators. Even then most prefer to still do the drawing themselves
assistants are paid by the mangaka though.
Here comes the coping
>reality is coping
>NAH BRAH, THESE DECADES LONG ESTABLISHED MANGAKA WHO OWN STUDIOS MEAN THE NEW GUYS DON’T EXISY
Not everything is dragonball all you mongoloid. You think the Chainsaw Man mangaka had a studio when he did fire punch? Do you think he even has one now when Chainsaw Man is a huge success and has an entire anime adaptation?
Frank Miller drew and wrote his daredevil run. This shit isn’t impossible
>Do you think he even has one now when Chainsaw Man is a huge success and has an entire anime adaptation?
We know he does. Holy massive hit of copium Batman.
>Frank Miller drew and wrote his daredevil run. This shit isn’t impossible
Not the entire thing and he had an inker and letterer and two editors.
A better example, if you weren’t a casual, would be John Byrne.
It's not the price it's the priority, people don't have any problems paying hundreds per month for streaming channels, paying for 5-10 streamers at a time on twitch (+ ponctual donations), or just have 5 deliveroo meals per week. But somehow 5 dollars per month for comics is "impossible because of their student's debt"
The creation of a DC onmiverse is likely a in-universe explanation for what may become of DC comics following its eventual shutdown. Since everything is canon, even multiverses, this means that future creator don't need to write in continuity. They can just make their own. If they ever go for "publisher-distributor" model, it means that continuity won't matter, just stories.
So DC is aware it’s ending?
The reason why colour needs to be removed isn't to save money, it's to make the art better.
By not having colour, manga has developed a plethora of techniques that utilize black and white. Motion lines, making the background black to show a character is thinking, that a scenario is abstract, that a moment is shcoking, a music stops moment, etc.
A panel with no background and just plain white show a cool relief moment where the intensity drops.
Lines around a figure can communicate something offscreen charging towards him. dense vertical lines can communicate immense pressure on the character. wavy lines communicate confusion.
Lines can communicate the speed of an action, the intensity of it, the mood of it, the direction of it.
Because the west always had colour, they never developed these techniques and so their comics appear stiff and lifeless