>Gonzo as the visible narrator with Rizzo as comedic backup support >Muppet characters in their fitting roles >fricking God Tier soundtrack >Sir fricking Michael Caine as Scrooge and playing it straight, which honestly works well with the silliness of the muppets >tells the story the best they can in 90 minutes including some important parts >this mother fricking thing is awesome.
I honestly loved they made brand new Muppets for the 3 ghosts of Christmas, each one fitting the tone of the story.
/thread.
The only thing going against it is the cut song between Scrooge and Belle titled "Love We Lost" that was meant to circle back at the end and would've made the final song "Love We Found" more impactful.
I don't think that even goes against it, and I think the movie is better without the song. Sure it's a good song, but it interrupts what is otherwise the most heart breaking moment of the movie, and focusing strictly on Scrooge's reaction and the silence that follows works much better.
In my opinion the ideal lies in between. Leave the song in, but maaaybe cut it at the bridge, or cut to some other shit happening during the bridge, and abbreviate or take the scene somewhere else for the last verse. it's not just long, it's repetitive and it's in a key that hurts your brain to let it drone on and on. Paul Williams did TOO GOOD a job on making it a heartbreaker.
Thanks. I might give it a watch then. Any chance you know where I can find it?
that's the trickety wicket, live action shows do not get well kept. I tend to use whatever putlocker-y site is functional recently. Like right now I'm watching almost unwatchably shitty VHS rips of Salute Your Shorts on putlockernew vc
you just gotta have your browser shields and shit well intact, and very carefully allow only the necessary scripts. On the right site, with the right server, you can settle into something comfortable. or on others, you have to like, view source and watch the video from there.
Something really neat about this movie is that it actually has some of the most period-accurate costume design ever put to film. They even used correct fashion trends for the various times shown throughout, subtle things like preferred fabric patterns, shawls, and styles of hat.
it was said best before
Sir Michael Caine works because he treats the muppets as fellow actors
Tim Curry works because he treats himself as a fellow muppet
past was pretty frickin weird looking but no weirder than Digit I guess.
apparently they first shot her in a vat of baby oil, but it kept getting dirty so they switched to water.
Wait really?
I remember watching a documentary about the production of Prisoner of Azkaban that they wanted to use puppets suspended in water for the death eaters and they ultimately made the switch to CG because filming puppets under water was too difficult. Are you telling me they were just lazy buttholes? Because the ghost of christmas past looks so incredible in Muppet's Christmas carol I was certain it was a digital effect.
i also thought it was a totally digital effect. henson had been experimenting in puppetable CGI (so it looks less fake because a person is moving it in real time) and it was unclear enough to be hard to tell exactly what it was.
but I think filming underwater is ALSO really hard. "the muppets did it" is not really an excuse for something being easy.
but I also didn't know this movie came out in '92, i'm pretty sure I didn't see it til '95 or so, when cg like that was more plausible.
>they were just lazy buttholes?
Yeah, kinda. Lol.
I never liked the Potter films because the CGI was hideous. Wish they used puppets for the whole series.
There was a general sense of class and respect about the whole thing. You can tell they wanted to do Jim proud, but also wanted to pay respect to Dickens as well.
It's why it works. In fact, a lot of scenes are "too serious" for the Muppets, which again is why it works. The ending where he's singing is basically him accepting his place as a Muppet character.
indeed, and as some have pointed out, he's kind of awkward.. and I think that was totally deliberate. He could have done it 'right' if he wanted, but he instead danced like a crotchety old miser who has just now been reminded what joy is, and his body isn't used to it yet
Carol also retains something older Muppet movies did that new ones tend to fail to do, and that's have some real sentimental moments. Stuff like "When the Love is Gone" and "Bless Us All" hit hard just like "I'm Going to go Back There Someday."
I can't think of any Muppet movies past Carol that have that.
that's what I mean, its a new version they did for it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
okay well it played before the credits too.
If you think that one's good, check out these >Great Santa Claus Switch >Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas >Christmas Eve on Sesame Street >The Christmas Toy >The Bells of Fraggle Rock >Muppet Family Christmas
also great. MFC was the last time the whole family of franchises got to coexist, it felt like that Doctor Who finale when they had like every character come back one last time.
Michael Caine is acting like he’s in a movie, not a muppet movie. He knew it would be a Christmas classic so he took it seriously, and it kicks ass because of it. I’m glad my wife showed me this.
If you think that one's good, check out these >Great Santa Claus Switch >Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas >Christmas Eve on Sesame Street >The Christmas Toy >The Bells of Fraggle Rock >Muppet Family Christmas
I don't understand what moral they were going for with Emmet Otter. "The Gift of the Magi except the people involved sell off each other's prized possessions instead of their own." Ok???
Remember when even Muppets films could have real sentimentality and feelings of love? And now everything in modern movies is undercut with a joke and any sense of love or soul is removed. Nothing is taken seriously or if it is, it is done in the wrong way. And most films don't even entertain human realities like love but avoid them. Muppets feel more human than modern media.
That's because Jim Henson was the one that kept saying that Muppets can be for adults too. When he died, that went right out the window. Puppets are kid shit like every other form of non live action media.
fair enough. I don't think I can bring myself to watch it but maybe some kids will like it and it'll get them to watch the old one
I just looked it up and it sounds like all kinds of modern garbage is behind the scenes, just as I assumed.
>I just looked it up and it sounds like all kinds of modern garbage is behind the scenes, just as I assumed.
Please elaborate!
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'd rather not, let's just enjoy our chrimbus.
I heard the new Dark Crystal stuff was pretty alright too but I didn't see it. In fact I don't think I've seen the original in at least like 25 years. It's really weird that DC came back.
it was good! and yeah that was out of fricking nowhere. But it looked good, had a good story, great characterizations for the skeksis (particularly fleshing out their leader, who died at the beginning of the movie, so this gave them a chance to do new things with him)
yeah they threw a little ridiculous out of place forced gay in there, but only in the background. and frick, we don't know how gelflings reproduce. I can easily let that slide.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Neat. I'll give it a watch. Actually I've been wanting to rewatch the movie too. Make a christmas break of it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
i watched the movie after the series ended and it was kinda neat because yknow, that's the chronological order. I see all those guys I recognize, and I hear how their voices varied (Mark Hamill clearly recorded the episodes out of order, because midway through the series he starts sounding a LOT more like the movie guy. or was it a lot less, I forget which makes more sense)
I heard the new Dark Crystal stuff was pretty alright too but I didn't see it. In fact I don't think I've seen the original in at least like 25 years. It's really weird that DC came back.
I'm aware of Muppets and used to watch it too, but for some reason I remember none of it.
Recently I came across clips of the Salesman trying to sell Ernie things and found them funny as shit.
What's some essential muppets I should watch then that's actually a good watch for adults too?
>What's some essential muppets I should watch then that's actually a good watch for adults too?
The first 4 movies (The Muppets Movie, Great Muppet Caper, Muppets Take Manhattan, Muppet Christmas Carol) are pure Muppet goodness. You MIGHT like Muppet Treasure Island if you enjoyed all the movies. Do not go beyond that since everything starting with Muppets In Space is trash.
Muppet Show is dated as hell but does have some goodies in it (Statler & Waldorf are always golden). And while not core Muppets, Fraggle Rock is pure kino too.
Thank you anon, good to know that. I was surprised at how enjoyable Muppets actually was when I came across the clips lately. I think at some point I just assumed it was basic hand puppets for a very young audience with nothing worthwhile in there but guess I was wrong.
it's so weird imagining people who didn't grow up with them
Shiver My Tembers, Sailing for Adventure, and Professional Pirate are some of the best Muppet songs.
yeah they did a lot right, they just didn't really have the heart and soul. just the music and a bit of okay comedy.
I won't accept this diminishing of Treasure Island.
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that is the best part of the movie
It's alright but it's not even the best Muppet's Christmas special. >Emmet Otter Jug Band Christmas >Muppet Family Christmas (watch YT upload, official releases don't include some songs) >The Christmas Toy >John Denver special (might count as lost media) >Muppet Christmas Carol >X-Mas Eve On Sesame Street
my mom just watched the john denver christmas special yesterday, so it must be around.
Kids got bored in test screenings during it, so Katzenberg cut it. We almost lost Part of Your World in Little Mermaid for the same reasons.
in fairness it put me to sleep as a kid too, but it's important. being bored was just part of childhood back then.
okay then it's weird imagining people who stopped watching them at any point
henson has been a fixture in my entire life. I should watch The Storyteller again, that shit holds up. I'd spend cash money on a higher quality rerelease honestly, it deserves it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>that shit holds up
even for adults?
5 months ago
Anonymous
I would say exclusively for adults. it's a bit dry for kids. at least kids the way kids have been since I was a kid, when this show was pretty new.
Last year at Galaxycon Steve Whitmire did a live commentary screening of this and it was fricking amazing.
so nice seeing him bounce back at least somewhat. disney muppets officially died for me when they fired him.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Thanks. I might give it a watch then. Any chance you know where I can find it?
5 months ago
Anonymous
>disney muppets officially died for me when they fired him. >
Thanks. I might give it a watch then. Any chance you know where I can find it?
>The ending is pure chaos
kek
KEK
I just laughed my ass off.
What on earth. By chaos I thought you simply meant all the noise and chaos of the children. Not that. Bloody hell lmao
Nah they just did shit like that when the tape was about to cut and sometimes if you where lucky, it made it to air. Sesame Street has some of the best bloopers too
>modern critics like "why does all modern stuff have this loose, conversational, improvised tone? it's so dumb, frick joss whedon"
meanwhile a gaggle of old 70s beardo hippies with their arms in the air...
>Recently I came across clips of the Salesman trying to sell Ernie things and found them funny as shit.
yeah because sesame street wrapped the educational content in surprisingly adult situations, preparing kids for their future life. the skits show a man selling something shady or trying to scam Ernie in a way a kid can understand without referencing things like drugs or fake goods.
I don't think you can go wrong with most of em. Even off camera Elmo is fricking funny. Maybe not Zoe. I don't think she brought anything to the table so its no wonder she got replaced by the fairy
particularly early ernie where he was kind of a sitcom buddy archetype, a little bit dim but still sly and happy to play jokes.
the henson edge is sorely missed. after him, kermit stopped losing his temper or shooting down others' craziness.
It's alright but it's not even the best Muppet's Christmas special. >Emmet Otter Jug Band Christmas >Muppet Family Christmas (watch YT upload, official releases don't include some songs) >The Christmas Toy >John Denver special (might count as lost media) >Muppet Christmas Carol >X-Mas Eve On Sesame Street
Executives wanted the film 90 minutes and not a minute longer and was forced to cut something.
And rewatching the movie, it's a pretty airtight film. They needed to remove about 5-7 minutes of footage but every scene was essential in building context and leading to the next one. And sure you had the Gonzo and Rizzo parts that are just gags but the pure comic relief gag moments laste around 30 seconds, a minute at most, not counting the actual narrations from Gonzo.
It's bullshit but considering the hard spot they were put I'm not sure what they could've done, cut or reedited.
How do people miss the fact that Scrooge is still a selfish butthole at the end of the movie? He didn't get better, he just realized no one would miss him when he's gone and decided to "repent" so he could feel good about himself.
scrooge's main issue isn't that he's selfish. hell, he hates himself. he's super hard on himself for his past, he barely enjoys the slightest luxuries, keeps his house dark, eats cheap food.
The job of a rich guy is to BE selfish, spend money on himself, keep the wheels of capitalism running. we wouldn't need poorhouses if he'd just buy more stuff to make himself happy. He shits on Christmas and wants people to work during it instead of going home and enjoying rich meals and presents for each other, which generates more wealth.
>The job of a rich guy is to BE selfish, spend money on himself, keep the wheels of capitalism running. we wouldn't need poorhouses if he'd just buy more stuff to make himself happy
This is the first time I've heard this moral specifically applied to the movie
well I'm speaking more broadly of Dickens's story
people didn't hate the rich, they hated misers who hoard wealth for no reason except to hold onto the money, causing stagnation. Like, he didn't even have any servants. There were people starving on the streets who could have been living or at least working in his house, cooking his meals, getting to eat the leftovers..
that's why the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Money's supposed to buy happiness, not be treated like a beloved possession itself.
I was always under the impression that the moral of the story had a decidedly Christian bent to it, which was basically that everyone has an obligation to help the needy, rich people especially. Hence the part (which most adaptations cut out) of Marley's ghost seeing a beggar woman on the streets and lamenting being unable to help her.
that too. but a major part of the christmas spirit isn't that you begrudgingly give, but that it's FUN to give. it warms the heart to help others. Doing what pleases yourself shouldn't be in direct conflict with pleasing others, because we're all together. Whatever helps any of us helps all of us.
Honestly a lot of things lost that same edge as time went on, what became acceptable for kids just differed.
eeeyup. i hope those people look at the generations they've raised and feel really rotten about it.
If I recall a lot of literature at the time was full of parables to get the rich to not be such enormous buttholes (there were very few legal constraints on what they could do to people). Dickens did his part. Not that it helped, because we're right back where we started, but it was a good effort.
Making Christmas about charity is a bold decision given the actual nature of the event. But if there was ever a time that message would get through, it's Christmas.
5 months ago
Anonymous
sickens me that you buy into that rhetoric, and you're soon going to see the true colors of the people you've put into power to fight off those rich buttholes >the actual nature of the event
the event that literally has everybody coming to give attention and gifts to the most important baby ever? that feels pretty charitable to me.
>if the lord ever sees fit to grace us with another jim henson someday.
We lost something magical with him. I really don't know how to describe it but movies just used to be so much more... just more. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic to a stupid point. On some level I think I am. But movies and TV shows used to feel so much more wondrous. It's too early to tell and I could be way off base, I hope I am honestly, but I just can't see kids looking up with bright eyed imagination and awe with so much of what's made today. Most stuff, even things that were big BIG lose their devotion almost as soon as it happened. I mean you don't even have to go back THAT far to when I was young but look at how people who grew up on Harry Potter still remember it. I wasn't ever a fan but the love and passion is there. But who's still talking about Iron Man 1. Who's still nostalgic for the first Avengers? I want someone to be. Please tell me you are. Please.
People are just different. there's a much more complex and less stupid version of the 'strong men make good times' etc thing, where... yknow, those old times made those old dudes. And more varied times made more varied dudes. it's way more streamlined now, the tall grass is cut more consistently, and those of us who fully grok the kind of entertainment we grew up on, and actually stand a chance of at least making more-of-the-same, don't have the work ethic because we're lazy creatives. >who's still talking about iron man 1
i mean i am, but only that one. the rest up to a certain point was fine, but not as special as that initial perfection. That thing blew me away.
How do people miss the fact that Scrooge is still a selfish butthole at the end of the movie? He didn't get better, he just realized no one would miss him when he's gone and decided to "repent" so he could feel good about himself.
All actions we do at some level has a bit of selfishness. Even when we do good deeds we often do it because we get that small hit of seratonin thinking about how we left a posotive impact. But the end goal should ideally be maximizing happiness for everyone. Want to know what Scrooge also was at the beginning of the story? Miserable. He was a sour selfish miser and yet despite being awful notice how that sort of behaviuor never actually got him any joy. Isolating himself, hoarding his wealth, abusing his workers you'd think was all for some selfish end goal for immidiate satisfication but it wasn't. He justr did it because he thought that's just who he is and how things are.
Scrooge changed because he realized that being a better person made him happy and made others happy. An intrinsincly selfish motivation. But so what? In the end, isn't that just what everyone wants?
Yeah but his employee’s son doesn’t have to die now, so that’s progress. Dickens wasn’t out to convert his readers into saints, he just wanted people to care enough so that less children would die in poverty.
it is hilarious how he's the only one who gets a bit of his name in it
I fricking loved Sam the Eagle as Scrooge's headmaster though. The line is playing in your head now, admit it
Why do millennials pretend they grew up with the muppets?
are you actually using the term properly? that's rare as shit. anyway, they don't. they don't talk about media at all.
I was genuinely impressed by how good the costume work was. They had entirely different costumes to account for differences in fashion between the respective periods on flashbacks and damn near everything is period accurate. What the actual frick.
Because it's genuine. It's a perfect example of how to have fun WITH something not fun AT something. It's bright silly and goofy but it's also dark, scary and emotional. It's peppered with genuine moments of humanity and love.
Damn straight. I feel too much of the recent Muppets stuff is operating on auto pilot, more concerned with crossing out a list of expected Muppets tropes rather than being the Muppets if that makes sense
i mean recent muppets is a complete garbage fire, any critiques would be better pointed at 90s muppet stuff, what it did right, what it did wrong.. where it got off track and how to prevent that if the lord ever sees fit to grace us with another jim henson someday.
>if the lord ever sees fit to grace us with another jim henson someday.
We lost something magical with him. I really don't know how to describe it but movies just used to be so much more... just more. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic to a stupid point. On some level I think I am. But movies and TV shows used to feel so much more wondrous. It's too early to tell and I could be way off base, I hope I am honestly, but I just can't see kids looking up with bright eyed imagination and awe with so much of what's made today. Most stuff, even things that were big BIG lose their devotion almost as soon as it happened. I mean you don't even have to go back THAT far to when I was young but look at how people who grew up on Harry Potter still remember it. I wasn't ever a fan but the love and passion is there. But who's still talking about Iron Man 1. Who's still nostalgic for the first Avengers? I want someone to be. Please tell me you are. Please.
well
>Gonzo as the visible narrator with Rizzo as comedic backup support
>Muppet characters in their fitting roles
>fricking God Tier soundtrack
>Sir fricking Michael Caine as Scrooge and playing it straight, which honestly works well with the silliness of the muppets
>tells the story the best they can in 90 minutes including some important parts
>this mother fricking thing is awesome.
I honestly loved they made brand new Muppets for the 3 ghosts of Christmas, each one fitting the tone of the story.
All of these, plus the beautifully grim set designs.
Thes quads speak greater truths than any quads ever posted.
/thread.
The only thing going against it is the cut song between Scrooge and Belle titled "Love We Lost" that was meant to circle back at the end and would've made the final song "Love We Found" more impactful.
It's so weird the song was added back in for VHS releases then cut again for DVD and Streaming then put back in for Streaming.
I don't think that even goes against it, and I think the movie is better without the song. Sure it's a good song, but it interrupts what is otherwise the most heart breaking moment of the movie, and focusing strictly on Scrooge's reaction and the silence that follows works much better.
In my opinion the ideal lies in between. Leave the song in, but maaaybe cut it at the bridge, or cut to some other shit happening during the bridge, and abbreviate or take the scene somewhere else for the last verse. it's not just long, it's repetitive and it's in a key that hurts your brain to let it drone on and on. Paul Williams did TOO GOOD a job on making it a heartbreaker.
that's the trickety wicket, live action shows do not get well kept. I tend to use whatever putlocker-y site is functional recently. Like right now I'm watching almost unwatchably shitty VHS rips of Salute Your Shorts on putlockernew vc
you just gotta have your browser shields and shit well intact, and very carefully allow only the necessary scripts. On the right site, with the right server, you can settle into something comfortable. or on others, you have to like, view source and watch the video from there.
thanks, I'll look out for it on those. It is a problem indeed
Something really neat about this movie is that it actually has some of the most period-accurate costume design ever put to film. They even used correct fashion trends for the various times shown throughout, subtle things like preferred fabric patterns, shawls, and styles of hat.
Quads of correctness
Checked and utterly unassailable. Any other opinion is just straight up wrong.
Ultimate holiday quads of truth, also it’s flat out my favorite adaptation
I like how his approach is opposite to Tim Curry in Treasure Island but both works well
tim curry took the muppets' silly nature as a challenge, and rose to it.
it was said best before
Sir Michael Caine works because he treats the muppets as fellow actors
Tim Curry works because he treats himself as a fellow muppet
makes sense too, tim is clearly not in the 'human' role in treasure island, Jim is.
Honestly, if you told me past and present were existing repurposed muppets, I'd believe it. They felt very "natural".
past was pretty frickin weird looking but no weirder than Digit I guess.
apparently they first shot her in a vat of baby oil, but it kept getting dirty so they switched to water.
Wait really?
I remember watching a documentary about the production of Prisoner of Azkaban that they wanted to use puppets suspended in water for the death eaters and they ultimately made the switch to CG because filming puppets under water was too difficult. Are you telling me they were just lazy buttholes? Because the ghost of christmas past looks so incredible in Muppet's Christmas carol I was certain it was a digital effect.
i also thought it was a totally digital effect. henson had been experimenting in puppetable CGI (so it looks less fake because a person is moving it in real time) and it was unclear enough to be hard to tell exactly what it was.
but I think filming underwater is ALSO really hard. "the muppets did it" is not really an excuse for something being easy.
but I also didn't know this movie came out in '92, i'm pretty sure I didn't see it til '95 or so, when cg like that was more plausible.
>they were just lazy buttholes?
Yeah, kinda. Lol.
I never liked the Potter films because the CGI was hideous. Wish they used puppets for the whole series.
Checked
Also the ghost of Christmas past was shot underwater iirc. She's so ethereal and ghostly without being too fricking spooky.
because they wanted to make Jim proud
and for literally exactly one movie and almost nothing beyond that, they did.
There was a general sense of class and respect about the whole thing. You can tell they wanted to do Jim proud, but also wanted to pay respect to Dickens as well.
I won't accept this diminishing of Treasure Island.
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That doesn't really hold a candle to "Scrooge".
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Personally I like this version
what's that meme where michael caine is like "i'm playing this as serious as a funeral"
It's why it works. In fact, a lot of scenes are "too serious" for the Muppets, which again is why it works. The ending where he's singing is basically him accepting his place as a Muppet character.
indeed, and as some have pointed out, he's kind of awkward.. and I think that was totally deliberate. He could have done it 'right' if he wanted, but he instead danced like a crotchety old miser who has just now been reminded what joy is, and his body isn't used to it yet
Carol also retains something older Muppet movies did that new ones tend to fail to do, and that's have some real sentimental moments. Stuff like "When the Love is Gone" and "Bless Us All" hit hard just like "I'm Going to go Back There Someday."
I can't think of any Muppet movies past Carol that have that.
I can't believe that the version you get today removes When Love Is Gone.
Disney+ actually has it complete with that restored, but you have to access it from the special features menu when you watch it.
Still waiting for this and Home Alone 2 to get 4K blu rays.
you just reminded me of the one good part of Muppets in Space
the remix version of the song during the credits?
uh no.. the part where gonzo sings it..
that's what I mean, its a new version they did for it.
okay well it played before the credits too.
also great. MFC was the last time the whole family of franchises got to coexist, it felt like that Doctor Who finale when they had like every character come back one last time.
Michael Caine is acting like he’s in a movie, not a muppet movie. He knew it would be a Christmas classic so he took it seriously, and it kicks ass because of it. I’m glad my wife showed me this.
If you think that one's good, check out these
>Great Santa Claus Switch
>Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas
>Christmas Eve on Sesame Street
>The Christmas Toy
>The Bells of Fraggle Rock
>Muppet Family Christmas
I don't understand what moral they were going for with Emmet Otter. "The Gift of the Magi except the people involved sell off each other's prized possessions instead of their own." Ok???
I don't think it was a moral, just a folksy tale of how dumb people do dumb things and suffer for it, but you can still have a nice christmas.
Remember when even Muppets films could have real sentimentality and feelings of love? And now everything in modern movies is undercut with a joke and any sense of love or soul is removed. Nothing is taken seriously or if it is, it is done in the wrong way. And most films don't even entertain human realities like love but avoid them. Muppets feel more human than modern media.
That's because Jim Henson was the one that kept saying that Muppets can be for adults too. When he died, that went right out the window. Puppets are kid shit like every other form of non live action media.
New Fraggles are still good
seriously
knowing what happened to steve
with jerry nelson dead
with kathryn mullen not playing mokey
and with all the other problems I assume it has
The team still tries and succeed.
I wish new series had few more eps though, but the final song is really good.
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fair enough. I don't think I can bring myself to watch it but maybe some kids will like it and it'll get them to watch the old one
I just looked it up and it sounds like all kinds of modern garbage is behind the scenes, just as I assumed.
>I just looked it up and it sounds like all kinds of modern garbage is behind the scenes, just as I assumed.
Please elaborate!
I'd rather not, let's just enjoy our chrimbus.
it was good! and yeah that was out of fricking nowhere. But it looked good, had a good story, great characterizations for the skeksis (particularly fleshing out their leader, who died at the beginning of the movie, so this gave them a chance to do new things with him)
yeah they threw a little ridiculous out of place forced gay in there, but only in the background. and frick, we don't know how gelflings reproduce. I can easily let that slide.
Neat. I'll give it a watch. Actually I've been wanting to rewatch the movie too. Make a christmas break of it.
i watched the movie after the series ended and it was kinda neat because yknow, that's the chronological order. I see all those guys I recognize, and I hear how their voices varied (Mark Hamill clearly recorded the episodes out of order, because midway through the series he starts sounding a LOT more like the movie guy. or was it a lot less, I forget which makes more sense)
I heard the new Dark Crystal stuff was pretty alright too but I didn't see it. In fact I don't think I've seen the original in at least like 25 years. It's really weird that DC came back.
I'm aware of Muppets and used to watch it too, but for some reason I remember none of it.
Recently I came across clips of the Salesman trying to sell Ernie things and found them funny as shit.
What's some essential muppets I should watch then that's actually a good watch for adults too?
>What's some essential muppets I should watch then that's actually a good watch for adults too?
The first 4 movies (The Muppets Movie, Great Muppet Caper, Muppets Take Manhattan, Muppet Christmas Carol) are pure Muppet goodness. You MIGHT like Muppet Treasure Island if you enjoyed all the movies. Do not go beyond that since everything starting with Muppets In Space is trash.
Muppet Show is dated as hell but does have some goodies in it (Statler & Waldorf are always golden). And while not core Muppets, Fraggle Rock is pure kino too.
I love how dated the Muppet Show is, so you'll have old timey music hall stars one episode, then modern rock the next.
Yeah I love it too but it's an acquired taste.
that was jim's way
everything's great, everybody's welcome. nobody's gonna be told you're too mature or you're too immature. as it should be.
Thank you anon, good to know that. I was surprised at how enjoyable Muppets actually was when I came across the clips lately. I think at some point I just assumed it was basic hand puppets for a very young audience with nothing worthwhile in there but guess I was wrong.
it's so weird imagining people who didn't grow up with them
yeah they did a lot right, they just didn't really have the heart and soul. just the music and a bit of okay comedy.
that is the best part of the movie
my mom just watched the john denver christmas special yesterday, so it must be around.
in fairness it put me to sleep as a kid too, but it's important. being bored was just part of childhood back then.
>it's so weird imagining people who didn't grow up with them
oh I did, my memory of them just isn't very good
okay then it's weird imagining people who stopped watching them at any point
henson has been a fixture in my entire life. I should watch The Storyteller again, that shit holds up. I'd spend cash money on a higher quality rerelease honestly, it deserves it.
>that shit holds up
even for adults?
I would say exclusively for adults. it's a bit dry for kids. at least kids the way kids have been since I was a kid, when this show was pretty new.
so nice seeing him bounce back at least somewhat. disney muppets officially died for me when they fired him.
Thanks. I might give it a watch then. Any chance you know where I can find it?
>disney muppets officially died for me when they fired him.
>
True...
There's a Grover/customer bit at a bakery that is almost kaufmanesque in its comedy.
?feature=shared
Watch this one. The ending is pure chaos
>The ending is pure chaos
kek
KEK
I just laughed my ass off.
What on earth. By chaos I thought you simply meant all the noise and chaos of the children. Not that. Bloody hell lmao
I kinda wonder if Frank Oz was getting legit tired of the whole sketch
Nah they just did shit like that when the tape was about to cut and sometimes if you where lucky, it made it to air. Sesame Street has some of the best bloopers too
for me it's all about Telephone Rock
it's... VAGUELY educational, but only if you don't know what a phone is. and the song just kicks ass.
>modern critics like "why does all modern stuff have this loose, conversational, improvised tone? it's so dumb, frick joss whedon"
meanwhile a gaggle of old 70s beardo hippies with their arms in the air...
>Recently I came across clips of the Salesman trying to sell Ernie things and found them funny as shit.
yeah because sesame street wrapped the educational content in surprisingly adult situations, preparing kids for their future life. the skits show a man selling something shady or trying to scam Ernie in a way a kid can understand without referencing things like drugs or fake goods.
All the skits I've seen of Ernie keeping Bert up at night with inane conversation have been consistently fun.
I'm beginning to think Ernie may be the best Sesame Street character
He very well could be. Ernie was the primary character that Henson himself played during his tenure on Sesame Street.
I don't think you can go wrong with most of em. Even off camera Elmo is fricking funny. Maybe not Zoe. I don't think she brought anything to the table so its no wonder she got replaced by the fairy
particularly early ernie where he was kind of a sitcom buddy archetype, a little bit dim but still sly and happy to play jokes.
the henson edge is sorely missed. after him, kermit stopped losing his temper or shooting down others' craziness.
Honestly a lot of things lost that same edge as time went on, what became acceptable for kids just differed.
This fricking bit has been stuck in my head all year: https://youtu.be/gkT5J2C8IVs?feature=shared
kek the muppets really covered a lot didn't they
Muppet Treasure Island was awesome too
The small percentage of the movie where Tim Curry appears is awesome, but you can't put that on Muppet Treasure Island.
Shiver My Tembers, Sailing for Adventure, and Professional Pirate are some of the best Muppet songs.
It's alright but it's not even the best Muppet's Christmas special.
>Emmet Otter Jug Band Christmas
>Muppet Family Christmas (watch YT upload, official releases don't include some songs)
>The Christmas Toy
>John Denver special (might count as lost media)
>Muppet Christmas Carol
>X-Mas Eve On Sesame Street
They got rid of Love is Gone. It was great song and gear moment for Scrooge. Why would they remove it?
Executives wanted the film 90 minutes and not a minute longer and was forced to cut something.
And rewatching the movie, it's a pretty airtight film. They needed to remove about 5-7 minutes of footage but every scene was essential in building context and leading to the next one. And sure you had the Gonzo and Rizzo parts that are just gags but the pure comic relief gag moments laste around 30 seconds, a minute at most, not counting the actual narrations from Gonzo.
It's bullshit but considering the hard spot they were put I'm not sure what they could've done, cut or reedited.
Kids got bored in test screenings during it, so Katzenberg cut it. We almost lost Part of Your World in Little Mermaid for the same reasons.
Michael Caine sure as shit didn't half ass this.
Paul Williams wroye all the songs.
Rainbow Connection motherfrickers
Scrooge did nothing wrong. ~~*They*~~ just wanted his hard earned money
we have come full fricking circle
scrooge's main issue isn't that he's selfish. hell, he hates himself. he's super hard on himself for his past, he barely enjoys the slightest luxuries, keeps his house dark, eats cheap food.
The job of a rich guy is to BE selfish, spend money on himself, keep the wheels of capitalism running. we wouldn't need poorhouses if he'd just buy more stuff to make himself happy. He shits on Christmas and wants people to work during it instead of going home and enjoying rich meals and presents for each other, which generates more wealth.
>The job of a rich guy is to BE selfish, spend money on himself, keep the wheels of capitalism running. we wouldn't need poorhouses if he'd just buy more stuff to make himself happy
This is the first time I've heard this moral specifically applied to the movie
well I'm speaking more broadly of Dickens's story
people didn't hate the rich, they hated misers who hoard wealth for no reason except to hold onto the money, causing stagnation. Like, he didn't even have any servants. There were people starving on the streets who could have been living or at least working in his house, cooking his meals, getting to eat the leftovers..
that's why the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. Money's supposed to buy happiness, not be treated like a beloved possession itself.
I was always under the impression that the moral of the story had a decidedly Christian bent to it, which was basically that everyone has an obligation to help the needy, rich people especially. Hence the part (which most adaptations cut out) of Marley's ghost seeing a beggar woman on the streets and lamenting being unable to help her.
that too. but a major part of the christmas spirit isn't that you begrudgingly give, but that it's FUN to give. it warms the heart to help others. Doing what pleases yourself shouldn't be in direct conflict with pleasing others, because we're all together. Whatever helps any of us helps all of us.
eeeyup. i hope those people look at the generations they've raised and feel really rotten about it.
If I recall a lot of literature at the time was full of parables to get the rich to not be such enormous buttholes (there were very few legal constraints on what they could do to people). Dickens did his part. Not that it helped, because we're right back where we started, but it was a good effort.
Making Christmas about charity is a bold decision given the actual nature of the event. But if there was ever a time that message would get through, it's Christmas.
sickens me that you buy into that rhetoric, and you're soon going to see the true colors of the people you've put into power to fight off those rich buttholes
>the actual nature of the event
the event that literally has everybody coming to give attention and gifts to the most important baby ever? that feels pretty charitable to me.
People are just different. there's a much more complex and less stupid version of the 'strong men make good times' etc thing, where... yknow, those old times made those old dudes. And more varied times made more varied dudes. it's way more streamlined now, the tall grass is cut more consistently, and those of us who fully grok the kind of entertainment we grew up on, and actually stand a chance of at least making more-of-the-same, don't have the work ethic because we're lazy creatives.
>who's still talking about iron man 1
i mean i am, but only that one. the rest up to a certain point was fine, but not as special as that initial perfection. That thing blew me away.
How do people miss the fact that Scrooge is still a selfish butthole at the end of the movie? He didn't get better, he just realized no one would miss him when he's gone and decided to "repent" so he could feel good about himself.
All actions we do at some level has a bit of selfishness. Even when we do good deeds we often do it because we get that small hit of seratonin thinking about how we left a posotive impact. But the end goal should ideally be maximizing happiness for everyone. Want to know what Scrooge also was at the beginning of the story? Miserable. He was a sour selfish miser and yet despite being awful notice how that sort of behaviuor never actually got him any joy. Isolating himself, hoarding his wealth, abusing his workers you'd think was all for some selfish end goal for immidiate satisfication but it wasn't. He justr did it because he thought that's just who he is and how things are.
Scrooge changed because he realized that being a better person made him happy and made others happy. An intrinsincly selfish motivation. But so what? In the end, isn't that just what everyone wants?
All good deeds are fueled by some intrinsic benefit even ones that seem completely altruistic.
Yeah but his employee’s son doesn’t have to die now, so that’s progress. Dickens wasn’t out to convert his readers into saints, he just wanted people to care enough so that less children would die in poverty.
If him being a nice, selfish butthole means helping the poor and making sure a child doesn't die young, isn't that good enough?
I love that this story is so timeless, a new version is made every year.
I love that there's enough versions of this story that someone could do this
Personally I’d like to see people try to revive some other forgotten christmas classic once in a while instead, like maybe The Blue Bird.
The album has the cut songs too.
>Scrooge goes out on a walk
>The entire town sings about how much of a piece of shit he is
No wonder he's so angry and hateful, I would be too.
Easy. It was done at a time when people had imaginations. Not like today's brain damaged woke-infected generation. I feel so sorry for you.
IF THEY GAVE A PRIZE FOR BEING GAY
THE WINNER WOULD BE HIM!
A homosexual called OP! There goes mister shipper there goes mister shill. No bigger homosexual since Liberace‘s wet dreams.
i didn't give you permission to screencap my posts
I can't believe there wasn't a better way to control the drum rolling. just move the damn milk cans.
>RUN RUN, GET THE DRUM IT'S WORTH ABOUT TEN BUCKS
>I can't! My feet are stapled!
because it has gonzo and rizzo
funny you say that, because it initially wasn’t so good at first glance: https://toughpigs.com/profound-weirdness-muppet-christmas-carol/
(remember, this was back in 1992)
error
Cain wanted to pay respect to the original story by playing it as seriously as he could, ignoring the fact he was surrounded by puppets.
Is there a mega for the complete version they put out last year?
Pure unadulterated SOUL
Last year at Galaxycon Steve Whitmire did a live commentary screening of this and it was fricking amazing.
Fuzzy wigs fozzy wigs. I like to think that’s why they made this movie.
it is hilarious how he's the only one who gets a bit of his name in it
I fricking loved Sam the Eagle as Scrooge's headmaster though. The line is playing in your head now, admit it
are you actually using the term properly? that's rare as shit. anyway, they don't. they don't talk about media at all.
>anyway, they don't. they don't talk about media at all.
Dude, they're obsessed with it. What the frick are you smoking?
i guess you aren't using it properly after all
Why do millennials pretend they grew up with the muppets?
Why do you pretend not to be gobbling wiener?
I've been watching them since I could lift my head in 1990. I remember Muppet Hour and Muppet Time on Nickolodeon.
Muppet babies cartoon from the 90’s was a big hit believe it or not.
believe it or not it's from the 80s. we just watched it in reruns in the 90s.
1996 born here, muppet treasure island was a favorite of mine growing up
1996 born here, I have never seen any movie except the one in the OP
I was genuinely impressed by how good the costume work was. They had entirely different costumes to account for differences in fashion between the respective periods on flashbacks and damn near everything is period accurate. What the actual frick.
I like the running gag of Janis's complicated relationship with nudity coming out at the tail end of a big overlapping discussion
Because it's genuine. It's a perfect example of how to have fun WITH something not fun AT something. It's bright silly and goofy but it's also dark, scary and emotional. It's peppered with genuine moments of humanity and love.
Damn straight. I feel too much of the recent Muppets stuff is operating on auto pilot, more concerned with crossing out a list of expected Muppets tropes rather than being the Muppets if that makes sense
i mean recent muppets is a complete garbage fire, any critiques would be better pointed at 90s muppet stuff, what it did right, what it did wrong.. where it got off track and how to prevent that if the lord ever sees fit to grace us with another jim henson someday.
>if the lord ever sees fit to grace us with another jim henson someday.
We lost something magical with him. I really don't know how to describe it but movies just used to be so much more... just more. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic to a stupid point. On some level I think I am. But movies and TV shows used to feel so much more wondrous. It's too early to tell and I could be way off base, I hope I am honestly, but I just can't see kids looking up with bright eyed imagination and awe with so much of what's made today. Most stuff, even things that were big BIG lose their devotion almost as soon as it happened. I mean you don't even have to go back THAT far to when I was young but look at how people who grew up on Harry Potter still remember it. I wasn't ever a fan but the love and passion is there. But who's still talking about Iron Man 1. Who's still nostalgic for the first Avengers? I want someone to be. Please tell me you are. Please.