how would you fix the industry. i want comics to start to look like this again, striking poses flashy colors and stupid stories, when did it change to everybody soapboxing?
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i think it has to do with the difference in inking look at mutant genesis
That's a coloring problem Anon.
Yeah. It IS a problem.
Looks like a "real is brown" era video game. Yuck.
it's called color-grading you shitbrained normie zoomer. we get it, your gay poppy kids films need to look like cotton candy and crayons to get your ticket
The left is superior and yes all comics should pop like that again
Nobody in the history of the human race has ever even remotely been superior for being a huge bootlicking pussy
Isn't the left one better tho?
it was dumb but they knew it was dumb, when did writers become so damn serious about everything?
dat ass doe
in order for this to happen you'd have to start selling comics to 11yo boys again instead of 55yo men. 11yo boys still buy the hell out of manga because it's closer to what early 90s comics were
but good luck prying comics out if the hands of retirement aged menchildren
But 55 year old men that read comics have the same taste as 11 year old kids they literally are the same type of customer
As a 40 yr old that still buys floppies, I must agree.
>hire good writers and plan ahead
>give up time travel, and retroactively adding backstories to people
>no power level wank, or you end up with a michael bay situation where every catastrophy has to be bigger than the last
>commit to characters living and dying in the world, make their personalities stand out, their actions and deaths count
>give up on trying to appeal to anyone other than the core demographic, young boys and manchildren are the bread and butter
>stop trying to crosspromote events at the cost individual books integrity
>dial the time back a few decades and completely ignore modern day politics/social commentary
what i could come up with at the top of my head
to characters living and dying in the world, make their personalities stand out, their actions and deaths count
No. That kills these comics and goes against appealing to the core demographic. They shouldn’t be long running narratives, individual arcs should be damn near stand alone.
Capes are episodic pulp adventures not long form manga-like narratives and they’ve been hurt by making them more long form.
Most of what you said would be good for OGNs and digital series
>Capes are episodic pulp adventures not long form manga-like narratives and they’ve been hurt by making them more long form.
This is a terrible idea. The lore and long stories are a huge part of what people like about comics.
>The lore and long stories are a huge part of what people like about comics.
No, they like continuity not the long running narratives. story arcs should be 3-4 issues long and mostly not alter continuity. All major changes like deaths and age-ups are controversial and drive fans away.
I didn't mean a religious adherence to a long running narratives, i just want buildup and time to tell other stories. The big bad of the week format is just not very exciting, it's hard to care about the endless list of Donut Steel Enemy Boss'.
If they took the time to tell stories that made people care about the setting, characters, and invest themselves in the long narrative instead of just telling the same "an ancient evil awakens, at a carnival, it's egyptians, from mars!" generic threat that the super people have to punch or defeat with the power of friendship, maybe people would actually still buy books. Who the hell wants a stack of books about the avengers beating up nobodies, and making sacrifices that'll be reset and forgotten next week?
I guess the TL;DR is that the short form stories are just recycled shit we've seen a thousand times at this point, i want something with more effort put into it.
>The big bad of the week format is just not very exciting
How would you know? Comics haven’t had this format in 25 years and your zoomer ass definitely hasn’t read a comic older than yourself
That's a sorry excuse for an argument, and i grew up on comics from the 60s for your information.
I'd disregard your opinion, but you don't seem to have one.
>when did it change to everybody soapboxing?
DC stole Watchmen and in order to keep the rights forever they began flooding the comic market with Watchmen which fooled multiple generations of nerds that it was the greatest commercial and cultural achievement the medium has ever produced and thus every cape comic also need to be Watchmen. Forever.
Not a bad theory actually
>every cape comic also need to be Watchmen
I wish. Then we'd have a shitload of great comics instead of almost none.
Anon, Marvel has been putting out a lot of nostalgia comics. And a good number of them are good. There's a lot of Spider-Man comics that take place in the past and there's even that Joe Fixit and Spider-Man comic.
>nostalgia
>take place in the past
no. frick off
Your loss.
These comics are literally the great writers of past eras doing stories they've wanted to do for decades.
I'm not personally looking for a throwback book (that's more of that retroactive backstory stuff I don't like)
I'd rather the old way be the standard, you know it when you see it, and this nostalgia stuff ain't it
That joe fixit comic was dogshit. So was that new fantastic four PAD wrote.
>striking poses flashy colors
Well, that's still being done to this day... Now the quality of the story is a separate issue
Take a moment to imagine how pozzed and creatively bankrupt comics will be in the 2030s
Thinking about it reminded me of how much people wanted Dungeon Keeper 3, and then all they got was a pay2win mobile game.
We're living in the worst timeline boys.
I didn't even grow up with the 90s stuff and I like it better. Was it really Watchmen and Crisis that ruined everything?
Couldn't say, i never paid attention to either until more recently. I was a marvelgay growing up reading 90s comics, and tbh i'm biased.
The only thing i can say for sure is that comics always kinda sucked, but they were made for comic fans. Now it feels like they're made for people that don't read comics for a variety of reasons(new customer base, politics, etc).
>Was it really Watchmen and Crisis that ruined everything?
No. Watchmen got writers' noggins jogging and Crisis cleaned up the DC universe. Both opportunities were squandered by the industry itself.
>Crisis cleaned up the DC universe
>Was it really Watchmen and Crisis that ruined everything?
Thanos:The Infinity Gauntlet was there too.
Forgot about Infinity Gauntlet
Frick Adam Warlock
>t. Silver surfer
No. Stunts ruined the industry, and "The Next Watchmen/DKR!" and "The Next Big Crossover!" are two such stunts. Other stunts include
>_______DIES!
>The All New _______!
>#1
>The "Special Episode" ("Hi kids, it's your friend ______. I'm here to talk to you today about ectopic pregnancies and white supremacy")
The mainstream industry don't produce a consistent product anymore, and because of this, they can't sustain business on "business as usual," so they branch swing between publicity stunts.
>The Next Watchmen/DKR!
They say that, but the comics they write that for never live up to it.
>She's MJ but not that MJ
Why?
Real solution:
Sells comicbooks and TPBs in Target, Walmart and Bestbuy. Also in newsstands. Also every floppie should be 1 dollar with ADS.
also drop direct market forever.
>Sells comicbooks and TPBs in Target, Walmart and Bestbuy. Also in newsstands
both marvel and dc tried this a couple of years ago, it was s huge flop
>kids don't want to read the ongoing Twitter adventures of troonyman or Xirwoman
Based tbqh
Perkele! Listen stupid finnish c**t, this idea is non-viable in America and with floppies. That almost killed the industry in the 70's when people actually buy these things.
The problem is want to keep catering to the direct market and keep chasing the audience outside of them. They need to drop one or keep sinking.
People like you live in an alternate reality. This is constantly refuted.
Newstands and grocers and big box stores don’t want the comics because they can’t return them to the publisher for credit. Floppies don’t have ads because advertisers don’t think the cost of running an ad is worth it due to the low circulation.
The publishers would love to do both of those things, nothing you said is intelligent or forward thinking.
DC sells trades at Target. There's TMNT too.
The problem with Walmart selling comics was more comic shops freaking out and b***hing to Diamond about Walmart getting new stories (which was like one new story in an anthology book) and DC b***hed out so you just got a bunch of multipacks no one wanted.
I would get comics in grocery stores
>But they don't want it!
Then make them want it. Sell the comics at a loss for a while if you have to just to hook new readers. Publish a few series that have very short, one or two issue stories. They don't all have to be that way, but have a couple of series where you can truly jump into any issue and get a full, satisfying story. Then in the back of every comic there should be an ad telling people that they can subscribe and get comics in the mail. Subscriptions are huge right now, push them.
>1990 Marvel
Literally the start of the quality rot OP
Nah 2000-2010 was fine for both companies outside of events.
You’ll ignore that last part to REE about events though.
The 2000s were great for DC because they walked retconned the shit they pulled in the 90s.
lol, no. If I walked by a magazine rack and saw pic related sitting there I'd immediately have to pick that shit up.
>If I walked by a magazine rack
What year is it? Comics aren’t on magazine racks no can’t be. See:
My grocery store has a rack of magazines, and there's no reason comics shouldn't be there.
That's modern troony shit, there's no comparison.
/thread
Comics are only dying because they refuse to make a product the public wants to purchase, which could be easily fixed by producing a product they would buy.
I know the drooling masses are naturally charactergays, but they need to be a hit within a title, instead of having a spamfest of multiple titles for a character, which makes a huge mess. Sell titles, not characters directly.
>return to flat coloring
>print on cheaper paper
>put an end to arcs
>tell a complete story in 24 pages
>put them in impulse buy sections of stores
>keep the price under $2
>keep the price under $2
>put them in impulse buy sections of stores
How do they achieve this?
See:
before replying
Let stores return them. That was easy.
This cuts too deep into revenue. I accept your concession.
>if you don’t like Tom Taylor, Tom king, Simon spurrier, ram v, Leah Williams, Tini Howard, chip Zdarsky, mark Russell, Josie Campbell and a bunch of other bait-writing shit smears you’ll never be happy
have a nice day
>This cuts too deep into revenue.
For a while. But the idea is that you'd gain new readers and get more money from them in the future. But the product has to be accessible to them first, and that requires thinking outside the box. Not your approach of "I can't think of how to increase readership, so it's impossible"
>For a while. But the idea is that you'd gain new readers and get more money from them in the future
Anon you do not risk death just to hope you gain enough new readers in 6 months to pay off 2 fiscal quarters of losses and enough revenue to not continue losing money.
>outside the box
Is a cute phrase to use when your idea is literally “lose a bunch of money doing the thing you decided was untenable when sales dropped”.
I suggest YOU try thinking outside the box you autistic frick.
I promise you the Walt Disney Company will not die from taking a loss on comics for a bit.
This company should do the same thing that drove their subsidiary to bankruptcy
If selling to non-LCS was viable, anon, Disney wouldn’t even own marvel. Do you understand that?
Tell that to rooster teeth, DC is next btw, Batman might become a marvel character in the near future
Warner Brothers is in way worse shape than Disney. Disney could absolutely lose a bit of money on comics for a period of time to bring in new readers. It would be pocket change for them.
Convince advertisers that more eyes will on their product. Cut them a deal in their favor. Also why can't the publishers start accepting the returns? That's on them.
I don’t believe you’re more than one anon.
But I’ll reiterate it would cut into revenue too deeply to allow for full returnability on the quantities that would be getting ordered. Within 6 months they’d be below operating costs.
>Convince advertisers that more eyes will on their product.
What a moronic thing to say, they demand sales figures. There’s no convincing going on, there’s a price point and a decision to meet it or not.
>Cut them a deal in their favor
And you’ll be paying money to print an ad which isn’t even providing enough revenue to pay for the printing costs
You know absolutely nothing about business or publishing.
I don't think you know much either. Deals like that have been made in the past, but it isn't likely in today's world, I'll give you that. Does Marvel want to increase their sales? I mean of course they do, but are they struggling and freaking out about building up a loyal fanbase? If so then they could take a dip now to ensnare young readers now for the coming decades.
>pic related to showing we are two anons even if you think we're both moronic.
>just, like, lose money mannn you’ll make it back doing the thing that was losing you money
Think outside the box anon
Why are you so committed to the idea that it's literally impossible to grow readership? Readership used to be a lot higher, and there's no reason it couldn't be high again.
Why are you incapable of providing a plan that hasn’t literally already failed?
The publishers didn’t stop selling to these places because they wanted to. The retailers stopped buying from them.
How do you not understand this?
I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say.
It’s very simple. If those retailers wanted to sell the comics there the publishers would be selling there.
Your proposal is to lose money with no plan to ever recoup it.
So your plan is for the industry should slowly die, and no one should ever try to fix it.
I mean it’s currently at a sustainable level. The way to grow revenue is to try and branch into the paper back and digital spheres while allowing the ongoings to be for straight white men so the sales grow back to their natural level.
Currently the ongoing market is underperforming for the big 2nbecause the comics are written for gays, women and non-white people who don’t spend money on the ongoing market. The cos for gays women and non-whites should be digital only and sometimes paperbacks.
Floppies could be doing much better if they were written for the people that shop at the LCS. 18-50 year old white men.
Meanwhile you have no new ideas, only ones that already failed.
>…big 2 because the comics are written for gays, women and non-white people who don’t spend money on the ongoing market. The comics for gays women and non-whites should be digital only and sometimes paperbacks.
Fixed a couple typos
So we have actual ideas while yours boil down to "frick gays, women, and brown people"
>we have ideas
No your idea is one that already failed which is the entire reason marvel is owned by Disney.
I also told you clearly, those groups don’t buy at LCS they buy/read digitally and paperbacks. So to claim I just said frick them is incredibly disingenuous. I actually said the opposite. I said target them more effectively
Provide a single NEW idea anon. You haven’t provided one.
>"frick gays, women, and brown people"
i mean, why can't we try this? we've tried it your way for the last 15 years at least, haven't we?
We had almost 20 years of pozzed woke shit and it didn't work, time to try something different
Which current Marvel or DC ongoings do you think have this problem?
X-Men is the worst offender I'm not telling the x-gays to stop being gays but they need to dial back some of the homosexualry
See:
all of those examples are from the last 18 months.
>Currently the ongoing market is underperforming for the big 2nbecause the comics are written for gays, women and non-white people who don’t spend money on the ongoing market.
This isn't even true, and now I know you're driven by ideology rather than looking at what's actually going on. Woke stuff is not that prevalent in big two comics except for small miniseries that no one buys anyway.
I do think you'd find that if comics were sold in more places that people actually go, people would buy them. Comic specialty shops appeal to people who are already comic fans. It's not easy to grow that way.
>does the same exact thing
>thinks altering the HTML will prove this isn’t just one person
Reposted for posterity.
>I also told you clearly, those groups don’t buy at LCS they buy/read digitally and paperbacks. So to claim I just said frick them is incredibly disingenuous. I actually said the opposite. I said target them more effectively
You're acting like comic books are by and large designed for those people and it isn't true. I think that you probably don't regularly read comics anymore, but you watch a lot of outraged YouTubers and that's your primary source of information about what's going on in the industry. There is woke stuff, I do think it's fair to say it's a problem, but that's not anywhere near the primary issue that comics face. And like I said, the extremely bad stuff is mostly relegated to d-list books that the publishers don't expect to do well. They're coming out with that young adult graphic novel about Dreamer the troony superhero, written by the person who played "her" on TV, and the writer wanted to do a Dreamer ongoing, but DC made "her" write a graphic novel instead because the new an ongoing would be such a disaster.
>I’ll just imagine who you are so that it conveniently discredits you rather than addressing your points
I accept your concession
>You're acting like comic books are by and large designed for those people and it isn't true
The entire Krakoa era, Williams power girl, Zdarsky Batman, Howard catwoman, ram detective, marvel voices, dc pride anthologies, the latest sentry comic, making Alan Scott gay on his 80th anniversary and sheridans recent mini, Taylor’s nightwing being chock full of gay face effeminate art, making Jon kent gay and having Taylor celebrate it every issue with his pink haired boyfriend, making tim drake gay and having him celebrated constantly for it.
To say they don’t make comics for those demographics is just absurd.
They aren’t made for work audiences. They’re made for centrist lib 40 year olds. Woke shit was just a failed attempt to get new audiences without understanding what new audiences want. Chainsaw Man is cool because he has a chainsaw for a head. Krakoa is lame because idf losers feeling high and mighty about their ethnostate.
>The entire Krakoa era
There were some shit tier spinoffs that were like that, but by and large it wasn't.
>Williams power girl
No one buys it
>Zdarsky Batman
Untrue except for the crossover with Catwoman
>Howard catwoman
Haven't read it (most people haven't) but based on Gotham War I'd guess that's true
>ram detective
What's wrong with that one?
>marvel voices, dc pride anthologies
No one buys those and they give you fair warning.
>the latest sentry comic
Didn't read it, but isn't it just a person in a wheelchair? That's not woke.
>making Alan Scott gay on his 80th anniversary and sheridans recent mini
Changing the character does really suck. I will agree with that one.
>Taylor’s nightwing being chock full of gay face effeminate art
Come on now, that book is fine. Maybe a little too cutesy in the dialogue but it's not bad.
>making Jon kent gay and having Taylor celebrate it every issue with his pink haired boyfriend
That sucks
>making tim drake gay and having him celebrated constantly for it.
That sucks.
But I want to point out the overwhelming majority of Marvel and DC comics are nothing like that. You picked the most egregious examples and they're still a tiny minority.
>No one buys it
Stopped reading here because you basically just admitted you aren’t concerned about the topic at hand.
Everything listed is for effeminate men, women, transsexuals, queers, non-whites or ACAB types. That was the express point.
Some of the small handful of comics you mentioned are written for those people. There's still Green Lantern, Moon Knight, World's Finest, Incredible Hulk, and plenty of other good to great comics that are nothing like what you just mentioned.
You couldn’t even name as many as anon did and you’re acting like theirs was even close to an exhaustive list.
The vast majority of ongoings right now are not overtly woke. They just aren't. You could throw out the Hawkgirl miniseries or the Fire and Ice miniseries, and those were truly awful, and it sucks if you're a fan of those characters, but those were miniseries that crashed and burned because people didn't want them. The comics that actually sell are nothing like that.
>Some of the small handful of comics you mentioned
No, all of them are. Add in
Starer’s Fire and Ice, spirit world, hawkgirl, SS dream team, speed force, city boy and that’s just DC
All miniseries that didn't sell. Why am I supposed to act like this is some huge deal? I can't enjoy Batman/Superman and Green Lantern because the same company also publishes some miniseries that I probably wouldn't have bought even if they were good?
>still didn’t name 15 non-woke ongoings from each of the big 2
You stupid fricking moron. There are multiple anons ragging on you. That's how dumb you are.
>I do think you'd find that if comics were sold in more places that people actually go, people would buy them.
You mean like book stores and free streaming sites built on revenue, which anon said?
Or were you too busy being a c**t about “ideologies”
>It's not easy to grow that way.
Says the dude claiming they can find growth but losing money for some undetermined amount of time with no guarantee of growth, especially after both companies tried selling to Walmart and target and LOST money (see:
)
I think they should have them in racks for impulse buys. Everyone knows Spider-Man and Batman so that would be easy. Then you give them a website link and tell them to subscribe so they never miss an issue. The comic in the rack is like a free trial to Netflix. That's how you get hooked.
Yeah, but you also have to write comics that are fun, and not “characters talking in a room for the whole issue.”
How does this generate revenue at all?
How do commercials generate revenue? They only cost money. It’s advertising the ip moron.
This is not analogous at all. One is an ad the other is a free product.
How is someone supposed to get in to comics if they are never exposed to comics? This is advertising. It tells you the product exists by putting it directly in your hands.
So just make every issue sold to grocery stores free? That would bankrupt them in 2 months tops.
Who said anything about free? Price them as you would a magazine?
You did:
>The vast majority of ongoings right now are not overtly woke
Overtly is holding a lot of weight. You can’t even name more than 15 from each company. That would constitute the vast majority
>The comics that actually sell are nothing like that.
Only Batman sells and that’s absolutely NOT written for traditional Batman fans the only reason it sells is shop owners are moronic.
You’re flailing and it’s pathetic.
You're responding to two different people, but I said it's like a free trial, not that comics should literally be free. I just meant that's how you get people hooked. You lose money up front to attract customers and make more money in the long run.
>You're responding to two different people
Learn how to use the site I’m aware of that moron. I never claimed you were the second anon there.
>but I said it's like a free trial, not that comics should literally be free
I must be taking crazy pills or you just said free is not “like” free.
If that wasn’t you then you never said “it’s like a free” trial. Are you schizophrenic?
It's like a free trial. But it's not a free trial. Like how Star Wars is like Dune but it's not Dune.
Address the fact that you’re claiming that you didn’t say that yet then also claiming you did say that.
You keep on saying “You’re talking to two people” yet then speaking as if you’re only one.
I never said "Give comics away in stores for free." I said "It's like a free trial."
You also said you didn’t say that at all and that it was a different anon. But then replied as if it weren’t a different anon.
Did I moron.
where the frick are the magazine racks?
>Floppies could be doing much better if they were written for the people that shop at the LCS. 18-50 year old white men.
Lmao. More like 35-65 year old white men. Keep pandering to LCS is betting on a bad horse. Even if I can kill all the woke writers with a button, that would not change the tide. You need to embrace digital and accept that comics need to be cheap disposable goods. Just like manga, and manhwa and those "m" books with pictures.
I go to my LCS weekly, it’s mostly 20-40 year olds.
You trying to get rid of more buyers?
Frick speculators and frick you, homosexual
Speculators would be the only ones buying.
moms picking up a Spider-Man comic on a whim at a grocery store is way more healthy for the industry than a handful of 50 year old collectors. If you want to collect something, collect original art.
It clearly isn’t more sustainable considering they don’t stop selling to grocery stores on a whim. They did it because the sales weren’t tenable.
Answer me honestly, are you under the impression the publishers started only selling thriugh diamond to LCS because they WANTED to?
Yes cuz they wanted to exploit it, since super markets and grocery stores were returning shit and marvel/dc had to pay back, but selling to those other morons mean they wouldn't be able to return anything and marvel/DC will get all the profits
i dont even understand what you’re trying to say.
It’s very simple. If those retailers wanted to sell the comics there the publishers would be selling there. Your proposal is to lose money with no plan to ever recoup it.
>Comic publishers stopped selling to grocery stores because grocery stores still used the old distribution methods, and those allowed for full returns.
>Publishers made more money shipping comics to comic shops (partial or no-refunds) and wanted to milk it for all it was worth.
>Instead of investing in and building up alternatives that were as accessible as the newsstands and grocery stores were, publishers went all-in with comic shops and the comic shop's biggest customer base (speculators and collectors).
>All the distributors collapsed except for Diamond, forcing a monopoly that no distributor or distribution system could penetrate for decades.
>The industry collapses because of overprinting and the Speculator/Collector bubble bursting. Because Marvel and DC are the biggest names and held the most readers almost by default, smaller companies struggled to expand their reach or went under.
It didn't matter if they wanted to or not. They had their chance to invest in other ways to put comics in front of people, and they chased what was most profitable and convenient to them. The sales weren't tenable because they invested so much in the Direct Market that it was all-or-nothing. And look at what it got them.
The irony is that a huge reason those back issues were able to acumulate so much worth was because of the refund system. It was hard to find intact copies of a comic because you had to tear off the cover to get a full return. If not for that return policy, you wouldn't have comic shops or comic book conventions.
>Instead of investing in and building up alternatives that were as accessible as the newsstands and grocery stores were, publishers went all-in with comic shops and the comic shop's biggest customer base (speculators and collectors).
What were these alternatives.
Just bullet list them, don’t sperg out.
Back then
>Pop Culture stores (Hot Topic, Suncoast, etc...)
>Drug and Liquor Stores around college campuses
>Electronic and Video Game stores
>Movie Theaters
>Bus Stops
>Mall Kiosks
>Free books at as many public library book drives as financially feasible
Those are off the top of my head. There are others, but I can't think of
And now, hundreds of millions of people have a smartphone or a laptop or a tablet in arm's reach and have more accessibility than a newsstand ever did.
>>Pop Culture stores (Hot Topic, Suncoast, etc...)
They don’t sell periodicals
>>Drug and Liquor Stores around college campuses
Liguria stores don’t sell periodicals. Drug stores represent the same problem as newstands and grocery stores, they’d want returnability, which we’ve established isn’t feasible
and Video Game stores
They did this for years
Theaters
They don’t sell periodicals
>>Bus Stops
They only have newspaper boxes, so it’s impossible
>>Mall Kiosks
I guess that might have worked if, of course, those retailers didn’t demand returnability.
>>Free books at as many public library book drives as financially feasible
They do this with overstock but I don’t see how that drives sales on an ongoing basis. Good tax write-off though
>>Pop Culture stores (Hot Topic, Suncoast, etc...)
>They don’t sell periodicals
But they can or did sell anime videos and magazines and gimmick toys. It would not have been a stretch to see comic companies sell comics there as well.
>>Drug and Liquor Stores around college campuses
>Liguria stores don’t sell periodicals. Drug stores represent the same problem as newstands and grocery stores, they’d want returnability, which we’ve established isn’t feasible
But they sell magazines and toys. They can sell comics too.
Theaters
>They don’t sell periodicals
Do giveaways during the first few days of a comic book movie being shown in their theaters. Make sure there are ads for stores that sell the comics in the book. Treat it as a loss leader.
The only reason why returns wouldn't be feasible for comic publishers and shops is because comic shops were stupid enough to take on all of the risk of carrying new monthlies and publishers were greedy enough to take them for a ride. And while that method granted them a sales boost from exclusivity, lack of accessibility killed that temporary boost in sales decades ago. And now all that's left are gimmicks and a broken system that any business with sense wouldn't invest in. And by the looks of Scholastic and Viz, don't even have to try and can still make huge profits.
All you are doing is preaching for the status quo to stay in place. And if it was working, Dog Man and Demon Slayer wouldn't be running laps around comics that would have been discontinued decades ago for their sales numbers.
The system does not work.
And like I wrote before, comic shops managed to frick themselves over because, by doing limited to no-returns with the publishers, they got rid of one of the biggest reasons why comics pre 1980's were able to be valued at what they are. Scarcity.
It's pretty hard to sell issue #1 of any comic for a huge price when you can find it at the same place you bought it. And in huge quantities and no risk of it being returned or thrown out to stock new product that will sell.
Fricking over comic shops by making them the front end for new comic distribution was one of the worst decisions that the industry made, followed by comic shops agreeing to not do full refunds (and crippling the collector's market in the process) and give themselves leverage at the beginning of the Direct Market.
>The only reason why returns wouldn't be feasible for comic publishers and shops is because comic shops were stupid enough to take on all of the risk of carrying new monthlies and publishers were greedy enough to take them for a ride.
You keep saying this yet it has never been true.
The LCS only continues to exist because other retailers represent a loss.
https://www.cbr.com/dc-multi-distributor-model-return-policy-change/
DC made waves about the choice because comic book publishers doing full returns, even temporary, was just something publishers didn't do. For the majority of comic publishers, any and every sale that publishers made to comic shops were always profitable because comic publishers had "no refund" policies with the shops and didn't have to give refunds or take on any risk.
They report losses from retailers that aren't comic shops because they have to do partial or full refunds to put their monthly books on those shelves. Because other retailers aren't stupid enough to take on all the risk and only get new monthlies as the reward.
Just stop.
>DC made waves about the choice because comic book publishers doing full returns, even temporary, was just something publishers didn't do
I’ve spent an entire thread telling YOU this. Why are you acting like this is new information for me?
Because either you don't know how the Direct Market works and why comic publishers make the profits that they do with comic shops and nowhere else (comic shops can't get full or partial refunds for unsold comics from publishers), or you want comic shops to keep on carrying all of the risk so that they can be the de facto front end for getting new monthlies out. And you're willing to ignore or downplay just how broken the Direct Market is and has been for decades just to keep your LCS.
You haven't told me a damn thing.
One of the problems is that there’s no such thing as cheap paper anymore, especially since the companies can’t negotiate with printers for the smaller per unit cost they used to get when they were ordering millions of copies a month, advertising was still going strong, and there were cranky old israelites running things
I would just shut the entire Industry down instead of trying to please people who will never be satisfied.
End all ongoing. Let every character retire. Make new stories, in isolated universes, where the artist is the creative lead, and the books are sold in a bundle for cheap at the checout lane in grocery stores.
>when did it change to everybody soapboxing?
>says op on his soapbox
Not even comparable. OP is posting a discussion question on the internet. Not using a corporate owned comic to soapbox. You thought you were doing something with this?
I just wanted to coom about X-men..
>Lee era X-Men
It literally can’t get anymore soulless than this.
Must be why fans set record sales of his run that haven't been broken 30+ years later lol
>caring about the speculator market
Lmao
>the speculator market is why X-Men '97 is the most popular cartoon in the world at the moment
Holy mother of cope lol
I'm not even talking about X-Men 97 you stupid troon.
I know, you're just seething about one of the greatest runs in comic history because you're drunk on sperm again.
It was so good that Bob Harras fired the guy who actually made X-Men popular in the first place and then gave head to Jim right after lol
See? You really are seething hard lmao
Jim Lee is a man who failed upward anon. He's not going to have sex with you.
You've had too much sperm again, time to go sleep it off lmfao
X-Men having the same uniforms looks cool as frick I wish they did that all the time
Flat colors look so much better than rendered shit. I don’t want to see rendered shit anymore unless it’s actually experimental like Sienkiewicz
Didn't the revival mini by Claremont of this formation did well? I know it was good.
This era of comics was pure kino, by the way.
Stop Floppies.
Frick Comic Stores.
Frick Grocery Stores.
Write for trades.
Publish on website first.
If trade is a hit, publish it, if not, move on.
Add all of your back content to your website
Get a good fricking app to read your shit
Hire compotent artists and writers
Tell stories, not preach politics
Woooooow, so hard.
I'm asking for guidance, why would you get strong with me?
I don't completely disagree, but frick comic stores isn't going to help. Mist comic store owners are just small business Americans who genuinely love comics and want to get them in people's hands. Fricking over the primary distribution channel will absolutely collapse ongoing revenue for the publishers as well as intangible support from the community maintained by retailers.
I agree that they shouldn't be catered too. I don't even think it's possible for a store to survive on sales of comics alone. No experience, but I've heard their best margins are on merch. Anyway, publishers shouldn't be cowed by retailers against greater digital distribution. Retailers should sell tablets.
They could selling trades, there is no need for the floppy market.
>Write for trades.
The already do, that's why modern stories have such shit pacing
I think the current Fantastic Four run would be perfect for grocery stores. Or something like it. Most issues tell a complete story in one issue. It's very satisfying if you were to pick it off the shelf. Not everyone likes this series, the tone is pretty goofy, but I think a series that's mostly self-contained stories would be a good choice to get in front of people and say hey, check this out. They should release a monthly Spider-Man book like that.
In my opinion, be a ruthless Jim Shooter-lite individual. This might sound moronic but what I'll do is put out an eight page comic story challenge as an entry to the industry. The way how I'll use this challenge is have the comic book writers make a well-written complete story in eight pages as a way to see who I want to recruit or not. Shit story in eight pages, writer will be rejected, great story in eight pages, writer will be hired. Also, you need to have experience with comics/ a fan.
They sell this comic at my Walmart. It's $7 and magazine size instead of comic size but it's been in print for almost a decade after a name change due to a lawsuit.
You know what I think the difference between Shudder and most Marvel/DC comics is? Shudder must give the audience what they want is all I can figure.
Wild I’ve never even heard of it.
I used to get them at Books-a-Million but it was a pain in the ass going there so I got my shop to order them for me. I love them. Got every issue of this and the Vampiress Carmilla book they do.
Why does ladderbro love the taste of cum so much
>now he's crying about his bully in this thread too
>Leegay drinks cum
Sounds about right.
>he's still seething like a woman
You've just got to laugh lol
I feel like I wasn’t responding to two anons now because he never listed the 15 titles from each company…
Fire all the sjws. Tell guards to shoot them if they are close to the building.
Moore, Gaiman, Morrison. THis is your home. Feel free to come and write wonderful stories with our characters. Do whatever you want with them. Oh, and could you solve the OMD mess, please?
Real continuity. Characters will grow old and die. And they won't appear in more than 2 series.
No more decompressed narrative.
No more Ultimate universe.
90s characters: kill them off. Frick Cable, Deadpool and all that shit.
European and Latin American stories.
Spanish translations of books. It's the second language of the US!
Republish pre-1990 material and let 90s books rot in the cellar.
Punisher out of 616 universe.
Give Moon Knight a decent writer, for Jack's sake.
Don't charge more than 2 $ per issue.
Frick crossovers and events.
Less splash pages. We are telling a story, you know.
No Conservative messages in comics.
Aunt may dies forever.
Iron man: he fell into a puddle and got rust. Killed off or a B-list again.
Writers and artists keep the copyright every time they create a new character.
Characters can smoke or take drugs if necessary or cool.
Put the ads at the end of the story. No more interruptions.
Moore is done with comics. Morrison and Gaiman are doing something else.
>No more Ultimate universe.
That's the best thing Marvel has going right now.
Did you guys know that Jim Lee is so insanely popular with fans 30+ years after leaving X-men that he can charge $20k for a commission any day if the week?
>11 by 17 inches, full figure one character with limited backgrounds for $20,000, if more than one character or extra backgrounds or recreation of other covers not drawn by Jim will be $25,000 to $35,000
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/jim-lees-x-men-commission-of-rogue-gambit-gets-tongues-wagging/
People would literally line up around the block if he started drawing X-men again.
I'm sorry but facts are facts.
>from selling one million issues worth of comics to just 20K
KWAB
>People would literally line up around the block if he started drawing X-men again.
And they would leave quickly because, just like in the 90s, he would not deliver on time and jump ship in less than a year.
It really is that easy folks.
Ladderbro we know it's you.
Fire all the women and trannies. Ignore Twitter. Make the books cheaper.
COMICS CANNOT BE SAVED. IT'S TOO FRICKING LATE!
For DECADES the comics industry saw the looming problem of luring in new readers which was wildly unsuccessful. GONE are the days of old where comics came in and out of fashion from the 30's to the 90's. Today, not only is there more competition for everyone's money, digital has hurt the industry. THEN you had the 2015-on era where "creatives" are literally telling cash-paying fans to frick off if they don't like their politics, with the full blessing of companies who don't fire them for this bullshit. Comics are DONE, over, finished. Once the Old Guard of Wednesday Warriors are gone, that's it. Barely anything can crack 100k in sales anymore.
If the companies like Marvel, DC, IDW, etc gave any sense of a FRICK, they would have shut down their loud mouth idealogues from runing their fricking mouths off and chasing away the bulk of the remaining paying customers. It doesn't help that the remaining "creatives" turn out garbage tier art and stories these days.
Maybe we'll get lucky and Putin will nuke our shithole cities and set everything right.
Jokes on you, the racially indeterminate pansexual socialist youths on twitter are the future, and they will surely buy propaganda bellowing their favorite talking points!
You're just insecure because a black womynx Captain America is coming for your privilege!
I almost called it back when milesgays were defending the idea of peter sharing his entire existence with literally every other character. Man I was so close.
>socialists
wrong. liberals are not leftists. those same dipshits on twitter will claim that marxism is a bunch of dead white guys, and ignore all the nonwhite marxists and female marxists in history
It’s true, the divide between libs and leftists is ever widening as the libs who actually want things to change realize that the incremental bullshit of the establishment only serves to quell the masses just below the tipping point where they start hunting down the wealthy. That’s what there identity politics are, an illusion of real change.
>Uh it’s not Columbus Day anymore, it’s Native American heritage day
>Okay, so are houses going to get cheaper?
>… anyways, I gotta send some weapons to Israel, gotta go.
>holidays
yup. friendly reminder kwanzaa is bullshit made up by the FBI
I blame decompression
Its simple
Remove wokeness and adapt the Manga System
>royalts for autors
>black and white for lower costs and prices
>colored only in special editions
>weekly releases
>more fanservice
and white for lower costs and prices
This is such a stupid idea. You want to save comics by making them worse.
There was always soapboxing, in fact the medium was very effective at presenting and exploring complex societal issues.The difference is the current "writers" aren't capable of telling good stories or most importantly nuance, and the current readership is largely young casualised morons who want their identity politics story and a power fantasy without the struggle. They want to be right with no serious opposition (who are presented as oafish and never a serious threat that can be easily steamrolled) and re-affirmed they and their opinions are correct and valid.
We're also going to see more of a decline in beauty as not only is the medium a reflection of current society (look outside - most people are intentionally ugly now and take no pride in health/appearance/fashion and are empowered by society to feel that way) but Disney has decided to pander to the sexually puritanical and lazy hambeasts/diverse shapeless mutts who want to see themselves reflected in their stories, instead of its former readership (read - males) who wanted an attractive and fit self insert and attractive fit women.
Tl:dr society has collapsed, and rather than provide escapism and fantasy comics now have to reflect said collapsed society much closer
So, Kingdom of Conscience.. Damn..
people doesn't see that comics real rival is paperback novels, the question is not how do we make normies or weebs read comics but how do we make the same people who reads detective novels, romance and sci fi and cheap paperbacks pick up the same mysteries, romances and sci fi but with pictures.
I do believe pocket sized graphic novels are the future of the industry, the paperback novel already killed the pulp magazine and old pulp heros found sucess in paperback novels, the same could have already happened with comics if the industry wasn't so tangled with the direct market.
>but how do we make the same people who reads detective novels, romance and sci fi and cheap paperbacks pick up the same mysteries, romances and sci fi but with pictures.
Art that doesn't suck.
Most comic art kinda sucks ass, no one wants to read a romance between people who are drawn like gremlins.
>cool fights
>cute girls
>Consistent and faithful animated adaptations
Invincible is the direction to move in. No one is going to pick up a comic after an MCU movie, the story being told is too different. You need to get the people who are going to read ahead because they can't wait for season 2 to be animated, like anime does
This, very direct animated adaptation is the best marketing for comics.
I don't even care about the big two circling the drain, it's frustrating how squandered the indie scene is in the US to me.
I want action, well drawn action. No 80's licenseshit, no autobios, no hacky dynamite shit, something cool and new.
>But Euro comics-
Are cool, but take forever to come out and most go nowhere since many are just vehicles for the artist's drawings.
>well drawn action
That costs money and takes time
Not really, I don't need hyper detail. Shit like the speedlines manga does is a time saving measure. Learn from that. I like Old City Blues
And no, don't recommend the Luther Strode guy, I think his work is like Baki without the soul.
>I think his work is like Baki without the soul.
That's because Luther Strode doesn't have any of the insane shit Baki has like fighting a giant imaginary preying mantis or the main character's dad watching menacingly while he fricks his girlfriend and critiquing his form or a dude countering 3 dudes jumping him by pissing on them.
Frankly, outside of some of the character design and the covers, Luther Strode seems more in the vein of something like John Wick than Baki, though I'm pretty sure it predates John Wick.
Tradd Moore is solid. He took some influence from Itagaki, but ultimately he keeps doing different stuff.
I can tell he's technically skilled and works hard on his art, but there's a lifelessness in it all to me. He has that syndrome it feels like a lot of design oriented American artists fall into where they'll do a technically amazing piece but it feels more like a design to impress than to be a character based piece where you can connect to the character as more than a drawing.
That's how I feel about J.H. Williams III and any extremely meticulous manga artist like Keiichi Koike. And that has its place.
I'm wondering where all the action webcomics that the people who grew up reading action manga should be making
same. Lord knows I wanted to make art but I never could cut it at the art.
>I'm wondering where all the action webcomics that the people who grew up reading action manga should be making
Oh wait you mean Kill 6 Billion Demons...
How would I fix the industry?
>Take a huge loss and invest in a new distribution system that incorporates a hybrid of digital comics, floppies, and graphic novels/TPB's.
>Monthly books can go fully digital and be given away for free or for a small subscription fee on the publisher's website or any of their affiliates sites.
>Since the value of a floppy comic is in its rarity rather than it's content, do limited prints runs of them a month after the latest issue drops but with added pages to boost their value and justify a price hike.
>If the print runs sell enough or sell out, turn them into TPB's with the option of making them canon.
>Graphic Novels and successful TPB's are kept physical for as long as possible by keeping them in stores (comic shops and bookstores and whatever retail store will take them).
>Push out the old hands or anyone who isn't willing to take a pay cut or become salaried workers, whether full time or part time. Keep them on Graphic Novels or putting in bonus art and script notes in the TPB's and Graphic novels and floppies. Put new blood on digital monthlies with the option to move them into Graphic Novels and TPB's if their monthlies get enough viewership or enough ad revenue.
There's more but that's the basis of what I would do.
>Monthly books can go fully digital and be given away for free or for a small subscription fee on the publisher's website or any of their affiliates sites.
I like this. I’d do a super low subscription fee, like a $1.99, for access to all the monthly issues.
And if the run goes well enough, then you can pay for the collected TPB with bonus art and script. And if you're a collector, then you can pay for a limited run floppy with a unique piece of art (cover and/or inside)
Put all the publishers out of business. Then foreign comics without propaganda could come in and take over the market 100%.
paperback format & sell them outside comicbook stores
@143689063
>and i grew up on comics from the 60s for your information
I don’t believe you.
>I don’t read any comics, I make up shit to b***h about them: the thread
The format of comics is just dated. Not just floppies, but the size as well. It's like trying to sell beta in the 90's. The format lost. We're still working off a format designed around stinging together newspaper strips. It's, unfortunately, irrelevant to people who grew up reading manga.
DC is trying to do these smaller size reprints, but just shrinking the pages isn't enough, you should format the pages to the size. 9 panels with lots of words will be shitty to read at this size.You need to rethink the page outputs for creators and the price accordingly. You'd get a lot more mileage breaking up your average western comic page into 1.5-2 or even 3 pages. Less bloat per page and you can space out the labor.
Marvel and DC will likely never change at this point, but if you're an indie comics guy why are you copying a format like this? You're better off copying manga. Not just because manga is popular, but because people in general like reading books at this size.
Indie comics should use bigger panels just because 95% of people would be reading it on their phone.
You have more of this RIGHT NOW
This mini has been pretty boring though. I say this having bought each issue.
sexo
>fire everybody
>bring back Jim Shooter to rebuild everything
>make comics cheap again by using rough paper and simple print colors
>like 99 cents a floppy cheap
>make team contracts for "mini" series style runs [6-12 issues]
>writer and penciller/inker don't change during story archs
I don't know how successful it would be but that's what I want and believe in.
This thread proves that Cinemaphile always has the worst ideas.