I actively do not understand why DC movies want to rush into everything. Justice league happened with little build up while most of the solo films did really well outside some ones that were moronic.
Then you look at The Flash movie, and they want to jump right into Flash Point. Fricking why? No set up for anything about The Flash, who he really is or anything. Just jumping right into a massive event.
If you look at The Flash TV show, it was slow, but the peak of it made The Flesh into a massive superhero name for a lot of people, just like The Arrow. And they did that with lots of build up and knowing what they were doing up until the end of Season 2.
The Flash movie should have been The Flash fighting The Reverse Flash to set up everything with him, defeating The Reverse Flash with The Flash learning how to barely time travel for the first time.
Flash Point's point of moving on is something that should only exist at the end of a trilogy. First movie should have been about learning The Flash. Second is having something major happen that causes him to start Flash Point and the third movie is him moving on from it, fixing his mistakes.
I believe Walter Hamada actively saw what went wrong and was like "We need to repeat our mistakes and make some more!"
>I actively do not understand why DC movies want to rush into everything.
They want to make Marvel money.
which I understand. What I don't understand is how they failed to learn from BvS and Justice League that this wasn't the way to go about it.
My guess is its just FOMO. They want that MCU money, but they're scared of losing out before the bubble bursts. So they try to rush and brute force their way in.
considering people are sick of marvel films, that bubble has burst, the ship has sailed and the dead horse is already beaten so hard even it's skeleton is dust.
if warner were smart (which clearly they aren't) they should've just stayed away from making super hero films.
And sit on the valuable Batman and Superman IPs? No way.
People aren't sick of comic movies, they're sick of Marvel films specifically. Or to be even more specific, they're sick of the Marvel formula. Everybody has seen the same old hero flick where a big baddie lays out an elaborate plan, an unlikely hero arises, hilarity and quipping ensue, and through sheer determination the hero defies the odds and saves the day. The characters aren't relatable in the slightest and start to blend together and fail to take on any distinguishing qualities. The villains have stopped being interesting and the payoffs to the plots of the films aren't satisfying. The films barely respect the source material at all and try to make the stories contemporary which just ends up missing the mark entirely.
If WB would stop forcing hack directors down our throats and hire people who actually like and respect comics as a medium instead of trying to reinvent the wheel we would get more good films. Aquaman and Wonder Woman certainly weren't perfect but they were what they needed to be for those characters. It doesn't help that current continuities for comics are total dogshit. New 52 all but ruined DC.
>People aren't sick of comic movies, they're sick of Marvel films specifically. Or to be even more specific, they're sick of the Marvel formula.
You have been saying this for 10 years.
Make sure not to ask them what the "Marvel formula" is, anon. They don't know either.
The Marvel formula is when Marvel makes a movie that sells gangbusters and someone cherrypicks some of the complaints to say Marvel fatigue is setting in, kek.
No no, it's when a sci-fi action film has a three-act structure and ends with a big final setpiece.
It's when people leave a theater moderately satisfied instead of angry, bored, or disgusted.
The projects that have missed are the ones that have tried to be “experimental.” MoM, Eternals, Quantumania. They tried to be epics and failed to really stick the landings.
Like Shang Chi is the marvel formula. It’s just a pretty basic movie that has just enough humor and action to keep normalgays entertained. Thor’s problem was Taika spent a bunch time having sex and partying while filming.
Kek so it's actually the opposite then, people like the formula and the movies that don't follow it are the ones that bomb.
Way to completely miss the point. People *are* sick of the Marvel formula, but that doesn't mean they aren't still going to watch the new films. They're going to keep watching them in hopes that some will deviate, which is why Eternals was well received by audiences. It didn't perform well relative to other Marvel films at the box office because it was released during a time where Covid was still a major factor at play that kept a lot of people from wanting to be in cramped spaces with one another. It was still the 6th highest grossing film of 2021.
The films don't fall short of expectations because of their adherence to the formula or lack thereof. Ant Man was never going to do well because nobody gives a shit about Ant Man. The second film in that trilogy wasn't very good and turned a lot of people off of the character entirely despite following the Marvel formula to a tee. Doesn't help that they went with the Lang Ant Man who isn't even half as interesting as Hank Pym.
>Eternals was secretly good actually
Delusional, opinion thoroughly invalidated.
it was different, that's the difference
Step 1: Try not to have a child molester as the star.
Step 2: Make a film that doesn't shit all over the known subject of the film other than them quipping too much.
There is no step 3.
If you would read, the Marvel formula was literally described in that reply.
>same old hero flick
>big baddie lays out plan
>unlikely hero arises
>hilarity and quipping ensue
>through sheer determination the hero defies the odds and saves the day
Incredibly vague, and there are somehow still Marvel movies that don't follow this "formula".
Doesn't help that the anon didn't even seem that concerned about switching genres or "re-inventing the wheel", so I guess his goal was to just... do all the shit he listed, but without the quips? Which is just describing Zack Snyder's strategy.
No, I've been saying it since Wakanda Forever.
>Everybody has seen the same old hero flick where a big baddie lays out an elaborate plan, an unlikely hero arises, hilarity and quipping ensue, and through sheer determination the hero defies the odds and saves the day.
Do you have *any idea* how many decades of non-marvel movies you just described? Hell, thats every James Bond.
Marvel invented quips and storytelling
It's the paradox of producers. In order to have enough money to make a big budget superhero movie, you have to be rich, but that level of wealth comes with a level of moronation and ego that makes you think you're immune to failure and can't possibly be wrong.
>executive sees Marvel
>they realize they have a brand that's just as much of a heavy hitter in DC
>try to speedrun movies to get to the point Marvel is at, already a phase behind by the time you start because Avengers
>spend all your time playing catchup and trying to blitz the Justice League while blowing your load on comic stories like Death of Superman literally TWO FILMS IN
>disregard that MCU generally expanded into everything in its media, including its shows, while also releasing movies at least twice a year to keep up momentum
>this is on top of the movies being shit because of the overwhelming need for control from higher ups gimping them, bad direction, trying too hard to course correct when people point this out (which it's already way too late for considering they're so fricking behind as it is), etc.
Funnily enough, they had a really good Batman run at the time in the Nolan series which might've been able to get pivoted into something bigger had they been quicker on the uptake and not wasted multiple years bleeding out talent and making trash while the MCU was consistently pumping out moneymakers and further widening the gap
Here is what should have happened:
Movie 1: Introduces The Flash, Iris West as the love interest, The Reverse Flash as his rival.
Movie 2: The Rouges gallery is introduced. Iris West and The Flesh are more intimate. The film ends with the Rouges not being defeated, but with Iris West dying and The Flash being so full of grief feeling like he is cursed, going back to save his mother.
Movie 3: The Flash enters the new world he created, seeing The Rouges have complete control of everything since he removed the existence of The Flash with his powers. Reverse Flash exists again to taunt him. The Flash learns his mistake, tries to correct things before shit gets fricked where he has to go back and let his mother die so he can move on. Ultimately making him a better hero.
It's so dumb they never learned their lesson by now.
>The Flesh
porn parody I didn't know I wanted. Thanks anon.
Mobile posting please understand I didn't drink my late night coffee
>but with Iris West dying and The Flash being so full of grief feeling like he is cursed, going back to save his mother.
This is like Lois dying, and Superman reversing time to save his parents in response.
I understand that like Aquaman, Flash has maybe 3 decent plot beats, but do the movies really have to adhere to them?
Flash movie 1 should be something lower stakes then introduce a tease for Reverse at the end, not blow their load on Reverse as the first movie's main villain. You would also avoid the classic capeshit movie trope of having the first big bad just be the main character's powers but evil.
Nah, Flash is pure comic book insanity, and that shit needs frontloaded
The perfect first Flash movie features Wally as MC, and is based on a melding of The Life Story of the Flash with The Return of Barry Allen. You get everything, immediately, and we can move on at faster than lightspeed from there
>You get everything, immediately, and we can move on at faster than lightspeed from there
Sorry mister DC exec but this ain't it
>avoid the classic capeshit movie trope of having the first big bad just be the main character's powers but evil.
Meh, for every cape movie that does this another tries a different angle
>Burton Batman didn't (Joker), Nolan Batman did (Ra's)
>Donner Superman didn't (Lex) Snyderman did (Zod)
>Lee Hulk didn't (Brian Banner) MCU Hulk did (Abomination)
>Ant-Man,
>Doctor Strange
>Aquaman,
>Black Panther,
>Iron Man
>Captain America
>Morbius (when he morbed all over that guy)
Wonder Woman did a nice bait & switch on it with Ares. Shazam/Black Adam didn't do this, despite it being one of the few things the fans wanted. Flash could have done it with Thawne, but decided to just shit the bed instead.
It's actually a much more common Marvel trope in film than DC, more to do with DC not respecting their product than an actual commitment to storytelling.
Lame, doing Reverse Flash for Barry's first movie doesn't work because it would be better to see Barry build up that Flash legacy first.
Gotta meet that "character's first movie villain is the character but evil" quota.
Do Turtle instead
This but don't do Turtle god like the one from this arc. Maybe something like have him appear early, gets defeated, Flash does Flash things and Barry personal life things, then have Turtle get out of prison somehow for the finale and become a city-wide or like half a city-wide threat for the finale. No need to go all out stakes-wise for a first outing, just focus on making the movie enjoyable.
Turtle is kinda subtle and would fall flat for most audiences
It's honestly this. It's also why they really want a cinematic universe to work no matter what. They could make great movies without connecting it, but they don't want to do that. They saw like unknowns like Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Guardians, etc. making a gorillion dollars and they want that.
>unknowns
It's funny how Marvel managed to do so much with characters that weren't comics A-listers, yet DC/WB can't for the life of them make anything worthwhile with its comics A-listers no matter how hard they try. Fricking Aquaman and Shazam BTFO'd most of the trinity's movies.
DC has z-listers who could BTFO their entire catalogue if done right
Stalker should be a no-brainer for Gunn
There's a lot of them that would work as decent one-off movies but WB wants that big money and they want it consistently, so they go with the safest most popular heroes that have the most stories rather than trying to build up a surprise hit out of nowhere.
>so they go with the safest most popular heroes that have the most stories rather than trying to build up a surprise hit out of nowhere.
a lot of non-Batman and non-Superman "DC a listers" don't really have stories tbh and are cornier than b/c/d/z listers
They do have stories and there's plenty you could adapt with them regardless of how corny they are. Hollywood's writers are the problem. Look at Alita, in the comic there is an entire movie's worth of an arc that ends with the body-stealing worm guy getting defeated, all before they introduce what's-his-name that tries to ascend to Zalem on one of its giant wires, yet the movie speeds past that and ends on the fricking roller derby with Alita dramatically pointing her weapon towards Zalem. They have zero patience, they just make adaptations that are a montage of things you know so fans across all facets of the franchise have something to clap at when they recognize familiar thing. It's abysmal storytelling.
>The Flash movie should have been The Flash fighting The Reverse Flash
My Evil Clone stories can go suck a dick, and Reverse Flash is a trite, one-dimensional, dull character like all the rest of them.
this, even if i think Reverse Flash is one of the better evil clones
should've gone with Captain Cold instead
this is a stupid argument because they still went with an evil version of flash
They just don't understand because they're 60 year olds who aren't into superheroes at all they just know those movies make a lot of money right now (or did). Thats all it is.
So why not do something other than capeshit?
Comics have other genres too like horror or fantasy or western or whatever
At that point why not go back to adapting books?
Tales from the Crypt was adapted and it was....ok I guess.
Books are more of a TV thing theses days as they've realized due to the length of books they work better for TV, and Game of Thrones helped with that for sure. Hence why all the TV book adaptations these days are fantasy (The Witcher, Wheel of Time, LOTR, The Grisha trilogy) they're all trying to be the next Game of Thrones. Though there was that Young Adult novel adaptation fad in the early - mid 2010s as everyone tried to chase that Hunger Games money. Though it seems like for now TV is chasing book adaptations while Movies are shifting to Vidya adaptations
>shifting to vidya
Mario 2023 and the Uncharted flop? Am I missing anything else?
Sonic is the one that started it off, made people realize vidya movies could be viable and not always flops. Mario and Last of Us (even though thats a TV show) made people realize it can be successful. Then all the movie producers were like, "Hm, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to comic book adaptations now, but look at all these rich new IPs we can adapt from vidya games"
So now the following are in production:
https://www.ign.com/articles/upcoming-video-game-movies-and-tv-shows
>Sonic is the one that started it off, made people realize vidya movies could be viable and not always flops.
kek, Sonic is viewed as Alvin and the Chipmunks kiddie fare
yes, I'm sure Mario by the studio of Secret Life of Pets and Sing is viewed much differently
Alvin and the Chipmunks made a shitload of money, and shifted the movie landscape to the point where we can still feel the effects of it to this day.
>shifted the movie landscape to the point where we can still feel the effects of it to this day.
Effects like the Sonic movie being the same thing with bland guy traveling with cgi animal kid.
Love how Sonicgays just straight up ignore Mortal Kombat not because they can't recognize its merit, but because they weren't alive back then.
It's also because Annihilation sucked.
Sure, but that's its own fault and not the first movie's.
we are talking about the present and future of adaptations
>we're talking about movies that fit my specific criteria, not vidya movies in generall
Oh my bad, carry on then.
>Love how Sonicgays just straight up ignore Mortal Kombat not because they can't recognize its merit, but because they weren't alive back then.
Because he's talking about the recent push for vidya adaptation? Why else mention Mario and TLOU?
TLOU isn't vidya related
Because thats not the hot thing right now
The problem is that Feige's Marvel Universe is what's hot right now, not Superheroes broadly as a genre. Spider-Man got tied into the MCU to his benefit, the last Spider-Man before that did worse than The Batman. Morbin and Kraven are sure-fire bombs. No one gives a frick about the disjointed DC stories, their two most successful efforts were built exactly like MCU films.
Joker is alone in his unique trendy popularity, he can even keep garbage like the original Suicide Squad from cratering.
Agreed. And the MCU has beaten a lot of capeshit tropes into the ground, rendering DC (the most archetypical characters of them all) feeling antiquated.
Morbius could've been an interesting sci-fi vampire story but they turned him into a generic vigilante
I think thats why DC tried to go the dark route with their movies in order to differentiate themselves from Marvel which is usually very light in tone, to the point sometimes of not being serious at all and making a joke out of everything. So DC tried to go all dark and serious and gritty which is a good idea except they went too far down that route and made it overly dark and overly serious and overly gritty. I think thats also why they started with team up movies first and solo movies second, to differentiate themselves from Marvel who do solo movies first, team up movies second. I think they thought for Marvel the solo movies feed into the team up movies and so for DC the team up movies would feed into the solo movies
>I think thats why DC tried to go the dark route with their movies in order to differentiate themselves from Marvel which is usually very light in tone, to the point sometimes of not being serious at all and making a joke out of everything.
the irony being that Marvel used to be the edgier "world outside your window" brand. Despite how toothless the MCU has gotten, the fundamentals and foundations of the characters being human in the comics has still spilled over (to an extent).
Ironically, Marvel became toothless because of the MCU (and Bendis, but I digress) while DC just kinda stayed risqué from the Dark Ages. They've become pretty toothless too in recent years, but their media doesn't reflect that.
Yeah Marvel comics have learned that the hard way. Just because people watch Marvel movies doesn't mean they'll consume other Marvel products. Hell, even the MCU learned that with their TV shows.
It’s weird that they had to learn this lesson. Book sales may experience a bit of a spike when an adaptation comes out, but movie adaptations don’t seem to create lifelong readers, why would comics be any different?
I’m not a anime guy, but frick if it didn’t turn my kid into a big time reader and collector. Why? Because he could not wait for next season of any of the shows he liked- and just started reading the mangas instead. One media leads to the other in a fantastic feedback loop. American comics are not set up like that and were they, comic b***hes would be weeping about synergy.
Horror is always hot. DC has plenty.
WB does fantasy well. Why not do a magic character?
Because no one has that sort of imagination in Honey Boo Boo Land anymore.
>1) Superheroes are a hot thing
>2) The superhero genre is the only genre of comics normies know besides newspaper funnies
Nobody knows that movies like V For Vendetta or The Losers or Road to Perdition or Ghost World are based on comic books, even when they're from big-name imprints like DC. Even now, it's a niche medium.
>>2) The superhero genre is the only genre of comics normies know besides newspaper funnies
only because it's the only thing that's ever adapted?
when was the last time non-capeshit characters from the Big 2 are given a chance by studios, let alone comic readers?
>only because it's the only thing that's ever adapted?
But it's not! That's what I'm saying. Even when other genres get adapted, no one assiociates them with "comics", because superheroes have dominated the medium. That's how it's been for decades, not just since the MCU popped up.
This, I doubt audiences knew Constantine was a comic book character and I doubt comics fans knew the movie was based on the comics since it barely resembled them.
Yeah, and that reminds me, it also didn't help that a lot of those early 2000s comic book films didn't really give a frick about accuracy.
>But it's not! That's what I'm saying. Even when other genres get adapted, no one assiociates them with "comics", because superheroes have dominated the medium. That's how it's been for decades, not just since the MCU popped up.
Vertigo properties are different. I'm talking actual genre properties from the big 2 themselves.
>I'm talking actual genre properties from the big 2 themselves
Like what? Jonah Hex? There's kinda slip picking if you're specifying DC and Marvel. You're either banking on silver-age romantic dramas and neutered sci-fi horror, or irrelevant 80s gimmick characters marketed to kids in cereal boxes.
>Like what? Jonah Hex? There's kinda slip picking if you're specifying DC and Marvel. You're either banking on silver-age romantic dramas and neutered sci-fi horror, or irrelevant 80s gimmick characters marketed to kids in cereal boxes
Jonah Hex
Swamp Thing
I, Vampire
With Marvel
Strikeforce Morituri
A proper Shang-Chi adaptation
Any of their horror titles
Etc etc
There's plenty to work with, especially characters who had their own decent selling titles in the 70s and 80s
>and neutered sci-fi horror
A little tweaking and that's great blockbuster premises
I think the problem is that most of these genres are past their hayday; westerns, martial arts movies, vampire flicks. Plus, I feel like Swamp Thing would be bound to be tied to capeshit somehow. I'm not saying it COULDN'T work, just that it probably wouldn't have much sticking power.
I'd just like to know why you said Vertigo imprint stuff doesn't count. I mean, Preacher, Sandman, V For Vendetta, Y: The Last Man. All things that are decently popular are non-superhero related, decently popular and super beloved. I could easily see a Transmetropolitan movie or a The Invisibles show. It's pretty much a goldmine.
You will most likely never see anything like the MCU ever again, and by that I mean a decade+ build-up of characters to a big climax where they all meet up.
Investors are morons. They see Marvel make lots of money and they want that. They want it NOW. Not years from now, RIGHT NOW.
Avengers had everyone team up, and it made lots of money, so do that. I don't care if we've only done 2 movies, DO IT NOW! What the frick why didn't it make Marvel money? You're fired!
Now we have to rush all these other movies so we can make Marvel money. Marvel brought back the old actors so let's do that. What the frick why didn't it make Marvel money? You're fired!
Avengers and the MCU caught fire because Robert Downey Jr. was the charismatic core of it.
Eventually it grew larger than Downey, but he propelled it through the first couple of phases.
I can't think of an actor more due an enormous payout.
Neither Cavill nor Affleck possess the sheer charisma to replicate that feat. I didn't even know RDjr had it but here we are.
And as a whole, the MCU is substantially better-cast.
That was definitely the issue with DC
>Movie 1: Superman origin
>Movie 2: Crossover movie with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman with cameos from other characters.
>Movie 3: Villain crossover movie with zero established villains
>Movie 4: Wonder Woman origin movie after she's introduced
>Movie 5: Justice League big crossover movie
>Movie 6: Aquaman origin movie after he's introduced
The problem was that Cavill, who's not a stellar actor, was made to play an autistic withdrawn Superman, Affleck (generally the most boring actor in any ensemble) was made into Worst Batman, Wonder Woman was a completely untalented stick, Flash was made into hyper-neurotic homosexual Peter Parker, Aquaman was an unrecognizable dudebro (and STILL the most popular) and Cyborg was le Token Black why is he even in this?
Skwad was just complete rubbish that sold because it was advertised as a Joker movie.
I don't think Cavill is a stellar actor but he could literally have just not acted and been his every day obsessed with warhammer dudebro self and it still would've been more charismatic and likable and closer to Superman than Snyder's sad sociopath.
I understand that Cavill is your boyfriend, but he's been not very great in several non-Superman roles, he's just attractive looking. I guess if Megan Fox played Warhammer she'd be idolized on Cinemaphile.
NTA but Cavill's best role is in Mission Impossible, imo. He kinda sucks in everything else.
I don't think you grasp just how offensive I found Snyderman. Forget Cavill, you could pull a random guy out of a high school theater club and tell them to act like Superman and they'd still probably get closer than Snyderman.
>Flash was made into hyper-neurotic homosexual Peter Parker
I don't understand how I didn't get that until now, all that weird PS2 CGI shit was literally to get the Into The Spiderverse audience because the suits saw it had all that "weird" animation style so they thought they could their own on the cheap kek.
Miller's flash is just Sheldon Cooper doing a Strange New World Spock impersonation.
cinematic universes are overrated. Man of Steel should've been a solo trilogy exploring Superman in the way TDK trilogy by Nolan did for Batman.
I doubt that would have worked out well considering MoS does little interesting with the Superman mythos outside of shitting all over it.
And it sucks because they are taking these iconic stories like Doomsday that required years of buildup for Superman as a character so you can actually care what happens to him, and they make the worst most rushed possible version of him. Just embarrassing.
This. Mixing together "Death of Superman" and "The Dark Knight Returns" in their second fricking movie was one of the dumbest things they could've done. And they clearly STILL haven't learned their lesson with making a Flash origin movie based off fricking Flashpoint.
>This. Mixing together "Death of Superman" and "The Dark Knight Returns" in their second fricking movie was one of the dumbest things they could've done. And they clearly STILL haven't learned their lesson with making a Flash origin movie based off fricking Flashpoint.
And what they should've used then?
Any plot that's not a huge late-game character-focused story.
>"Death of Superman" was a huge game-changer that was made to excite people about the defeat of a fifty-year old comics characters.
>"The Dark Knight Returns" is meant to be a grim, dystopian look at a grizzled, cynical Batman at the tail-end of his career.
>"Flashpoint" was a giant multiversal event that literally existed to kick off a total brand reboot.
All of these stories are love letters/deconstructions of long-standing cornerstones of the DC mythos. I would say it's like trying to adapt "All-Star Superman" as a Clark Kent origin story, but looking back, the trailers for "Man of Steel" kinda paid homage to that book, so I really feel like Zack Snyder just didn't care.
>>"Death of Superman" was a huge game-changer that was made to excite people about the defeat of a fifty-year old comics characters.
That's some hilarious revisionist history. Death of Superman was a cynical stunt made so that they could prolong Clark and Lois's courtship and eventual marriage to coincide with a TV show for the sake of synergy.
>Death of Superman was a cynical stunt made so that they could prolong Clark and Lois's courtship and eventual marriage to coincide with a TV show for the sake of synergy
Hey, it can be both. I never said the thing was well written. Just that people ate it up.
I think the problem is movie writers google "(comic character) best stories," look at the first one or two names, skim it or have an intern skim it, then work off that with some notes for easter eggs that Geoff Johns throws them. They could have made a movie off of just about any 4-issue arc in the regular comic runs but they just keep going with the huge game-changing event titles. They simply don't have the patience to establish a status quo of any sort so the stories they take that were made to shake the status quo have no meaning.
>movie writers google "(comic character) best stories," look at the first one or two names, skim it or have an intern skim it, etc.
Yeah, that too.
Its a mix of mostly three factors
>executives wanting to make Avengers/event money without the build up that the concept requires nor the willingness to accept you wont get historically high profits every movie
>"creatives" fundamentally not understanding that the point of a shared universe is to join incoherent stories, not tell a single one with different titles. And that many of the most popular DC concepts feed from continuity.
>fans, including most people here wanting that exact thing anyways
Because they wanted their own MCU except the MCU took years and lots of movies to build itself up and they were way ahead so of course you have to rush things if you want to catch up
If they took the time to plan it out better it wouldn't be such a mess but they wanted to cash in on the cinematic universe hypetrain
I'm sure the constant rotation of leadership each with their own different grand plan as to what direction the DCEU should go in, in terms of content and tone really didn't help. Its made a massively inconsistent universe where its confusing as to what's canon and what is.
>muh solo films
It was inventive when Marvel first did it, but let's be fricking honest: most of these superheroes do not need solo movies at all to make the big event films work.
Consider: did Antman really need a movie (let alone fricking three)? Did anyone even watch (or remember) the Incredible Hulk? Captain Marvel's and Doctor Strange's solo films were so generic they might as well not existed. And don't even get me started with the new hero films of phase 4. Not to mention GotG became massive despite featuring previously unknown characters to the MCU.
If Man of Steel, BvS, and Justice League were better written (aka not have been made by Zack Snyder), this concern of "building it up" wouldn't exist.
>Did anyone even watch (or remember) the Incredible Hulk?
I do. Lou Ferigno was a security guard and People thought it was a Thor reference when he got mad at a thunder storm. Plus at the time Blonksy on super soldier serum was widely considered a preview as to how they were going to choreograph Cap.
>at the time Blonksy on super soldier serum was widely considered a preview as to how they were going to choreograph Cap
I mean, they literally say in-universe that Blonsky's drug was a bootleg attempt at recreating the Super Soldier Serum, so there's that.
I'm probably the only person on Cinemaphile whose favorite Marvel solo character's films are Iron Man 3 and Ant-Man. SM NWH was great too but I didn't necessarily watch it for current Spidey.
>did Antman really need a movie (let alone fricking three)?
Yes
>Did anyone even watch (or remember) the Incredible Hulk?
Yes
>Doctor Strange's solo films were so generic they might as well not existed.
NO
Strange's solo films were so generic they might as well not existed.
>NO
this one is true though. First one felt sterile and corporate. Needed more of Ditko's vision.
Money
>character's/team's first arc in a comic that spans at least 4 issues: the character/team doing typical hero stuff which leads them to discovering a crime ring or something and taking out one of its commanders (not wven the actual leader)
>character's/team's first DC movie: character/team spends 10 to 20 minutes in a short montage of how relatable they probably are and/or how they don't gwt along with one another and then has to SAVE THE MULTIVERSE
I'm just gonna say it.
We should've gotten Batgirl instead of this.
They saw the billion dollar payday that was Avengers and said, literally, 'ayyo gibs me dat'
Your pitch sucks ass just like every other "Better version of the DCEU" pitch.
>Legion of super heroes movie never ever
I want one so bad bros.
Legion of Superheroes is too many characters all at once. It'd be Eternals all over again.
They really should scrap the shared universe wcrao and go back to solo projects, especially edgy stuff instead of copying marvels tone as well, Joker, The Batman, all successful
>especially edgy stuff
FRICK OFF, ZACK!
What's worse is they've forever sullied all these great concepts and storylines. I can no longer pretend I like anything about DC, comics or otherwise.
They wanted to clean up this exact mistake by booting the old movies and restarting from scratch. Flashpoint was just the quickest excuse to get rid of the mess they made.
>tfw ywn get to see a funny goofy superman movie with mr. mxyzptlk doing heehee hoo haha shenanigans because multiverses and extra dimensional concepts are annoying and overplayed now
It's so unfair...
They want to make as much money as possible, while spending as little as possible. You can use this answer for pretty much any and every question when it comes to "why did x company do this?".
Warner Brotthers ordered the rushing of their JLA/DC Cinematic Universe because they fricked up BIG TIME by expecting that they'd always have Harry Potter money flowing in.
Seriously, it's been widely reported that Warner Brothers got drunk as frick off the HUGE money the Harry Potter films brought in to the point that they reworked the ENTIRE COMPANY around the idea that they'd have an infinite supply of Potter films bringing in huge fricking bucks and as such, greenlit a TON of flops and vanity projects that cost an insane amount budget-wise, because even if they flopped, the Harry Potter films would easily cover the losses and still make them HUGE profits.
It wasn't until the Harry Potter gravy train FINALLY ended, that Warner realized how utterly fricked they were. They had a TON of expensive flops/vanity projects in the works when they released the last Potter film and those flops DECIMATED the company; worse, they realized that ALL profit projections/budgets for films greenlit had been perverted by the Potter profits, to the point that they had to rework how they budgeted money to reflect they didn't have those Potter billions coming in like they always thought they would.
So the order was given to warp speed put into production the DC Cinematic Universe, to have the DC films become the new source of billions to keep the Potter era afloat, because Warner executives refused to fricking cut the fat and tell people to frick off, so they could readjust to their new financial reality. Which backfired on them and then some.
Didn't Miller also contribute to killing Harry Potter? Fantastic Beasts was the first movie I remember seeing him in.
What does he have on them?
Actually that's not what happened.
Warner signed Ezra to a multi-picture deal to play Flash BUT his deal for the Potter films only covered the first film. Meaning Ezra could have told Warner to frick off if he wanted to and they'd have to recast him in the FB films.
The Fantastic Beast films only exist because Snyder fricked up the DCCU with Man of Steel and Warner wanted to hedge their bets and begged JK Rowling to sell them the rights to her beastiary book (Fantastic Beasts) and agree to work with/give Warner permission to basically create a prequel film series around the beastiary book. As the Snyder derailed the DC movieverse, the Fantastic Beast films became more and more important purely to keep Rowlings happy in hopes she would greenlight MORE Potter stuff down the line. And recasting Ezra, who was a major character in the series, would have pissed people off. So even though people hated him as Flash, DC couldn't do anything and worse had to pander to Ezra via giving him a spin-off series, to keep him making those FB films.
Besides this, Ezra was big up and coming actor on the indie film scene prior to getting the Flash/FB role. In particular, We Need To Talk About Kevin and Perks of Being A Wallflower got him big time praise from critics, especially WNTTAK.
>We Need To Talk About Kevin
He was great in that because he was playing a weirdo psychopath killer, I don't know why it gave producers the idea he could play a hero. Even if you know nothing about him he just has a weird face makes you feel wary about him.
Feel free to call me a nostalgia bawd, I won't argue, but I feel like SC sounds just sorta shove everything aside, make a (well cast!!!) Teen Titans film, and then if that plays well maybe start building off the universe there. Personally speaking I like when DC branches off of itself, like when other heroes were brought in for the show, or pretty much anything Batman: Brave and the Bold did. It's fascinating getting more and more windows into a universe while starting with the comfortable norm. I guess it doesn't offer much in terms of staying power, idunno. I'm not a writer for good reason.
>I actively do not understand why DC movies want to rush into everything
Because Warner Bros wants money NOW NOW, NOW!!!! Here's what they should have done instead of Man of Steel, which only happened because the Nolan films were a hit and wanted that tone and style for Superman even though it doesn't fit the character.
>Superman
>Batman
>Wonder Woman
>The Flash
>Aquaman
>Green Lantern
>Martian Manhunter
>The Justice League
Then, plant seeds for future crisis events and follow up with sequels or more solos for Green Arrow, Shazam, etc. Maybe down the line, have a Young Justice tv show or something.
According to some leaks there was a Grant Morrison and Ezra Miller script that had the origins of Flash and then a time travel to met another universe, but then everything collapsed or not I don't remember too much shit happened