I can’t believe how many people sided with Cap on this shit man
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I cant believe how many people sided with Cap on this shit man
I can’t believe how many people sided with Cap on this shit man
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you aren't supposed to side with either both characters went full moron for no reason
>both characters went full moron for no reason
>Tony wanted to sign his allegiances away in a best case scenario out of paranoia
>Cap literally just dealt with what happens when government institutions get hijacked by nefarious forces
Also in Avengers these same people would've nuked fully occupied Manhattan and NYC if not for Tony
that guy who went to drop the nuke still needs to answer for what he tried to do
no he doesn't. One of the perks of being linked to a shadowy cabal that secretly rules the world
Why did the MCU take away the shadowy-ness of the government and SHIELD. I dig the “matter of fact”ness in Winter Soldier, but I wonder what the purpose was
yes he does he is a c**t and he just ejected from his plane and landed funny he needs to pay
That could be a good Heroes for Hire TV show episode. After a leak exposes the identity of the bomber pilot, he tries to hire Luke and Danny to protect him from angry mobs and psychos trying to kill him.
I don't think either of them would take money to protect a guy that almost bombed New York.
Maybe Long Island.
That was the kind of thing they struggled with in their comics, though. Sometimes they had to ask themselves if it was okay to bend their principles a little when considering that the lights were about to be shut off.
He was on Agents of Shield (before they stopped caring about even trying to line up with the films) and died there.
good he deserved it
>Tony wanted to sign his allegiances away in a best case scenario out of paranoia
He also blackmailed a kid so he could force him to be a slave child soldier, which almost killed him and got him injured.
and the worst part is the Steve never really went rogue, instead he basically started an insurrection and tried to pressure the goverment to submit, a democratically elected goverment had to follow this little warlord demands
in several ways those frickers went much further than Watchmen heroes but unlike the Watchmen the Avengers had plot armor so the audience must ignore the bad writing and pretend they are in the right
And Tony literally wanted to be the warlord of a mercenary force with mass destruction weapons and billions of tax payer money that didn't had to answer to the law, both sides are war criminals, both sides are terrorists, both sides stole a frickton of money from everybody
never go full moron
I blame mark Millar
Tony Stark is always wrong.
Stark sided with Cap in the end
he wasn't even mad about the accords, he was mad about Cap concealing Bucky's part in his parents' deaths
you see, the parallel between Cap and Stark here is that Cap's position that the Accords are wrong because they represent an unnecessary burden on the individual and the encroaching power of the state to decide good from bad (which Cap has already dealt with in the HYDRA takeover of SHIELD by this point, and dealing with HYDRA etc in the 40s) but Cap himself would never cross that line to become a state actor again (having done that in the 40s) and doesn't require the moral guidance of the Accords to decide how right from wrong
but Stark's position is that the Accords are right because they represent a control over the powers of the superheroes and a moral guide to determine right from wrong (which Stark has already dealt with in the overreach that produced Ultron)
the irony is that Stark needs the Accords - he judges himself correctly as in need of a moral guide - but Cap doesn't, and while Cap could have provided that moral guide, Stark drove him away because Cap made a single error of judgement in failing to reveal what he knew about the Winter Soldier's involvement in the deaths of Howard and Maria Stark
but once he'd had the opportunity to calm down, Stark sided with Cap, because Cap was right - breaking up the Avengers was the problem, and they were stronger together, which was all Stark and Cap really wanted from the start
honestly this is all signposted so heavily you can't really call yourself intelligent if you "can't believe it"
>and the encroaching power of the state to decide good from bad
C'mon now, those frickers are using trillions of tax payer money for their weapons, they are risking millions of lives with their plans, they have acess to the most advanced tech in the world given by the goverment, they absolutely have no argument to be above the state, not while the guy body is full of billion dollars steroids paid by the US goverment.
If you think Steve is in any way reasonable you got some highly questionable political views. He's not like Batman who buy his own shit and works on his own.
Nta but Stark, Rhoades, and probably Romanov are the only ones using taxpayer funds. The last one is doubtful as she probably wouldn't trust being trackable by a CIF paper trail.
Rogers is using his backpay, Barton pays for his own arrows from his SHIELD pay, Vision is using a celestial rock, etc.
Rogers, Barton and Romanoff all get funds from Fury.
Captain America powers and shield are all thanks to tax payer money.
Tax payer money from 80 years ago. They've long been paid for, Steve isn't property to the government for the rest of his life because of that.
I would think that preventing the United States East Coast from being nuked multiple times probably paid back the serum and shield.
>Steve isn't property to the government for the rest of his life because of that
Sure, if he give the shield and uniform back, renounce the name Captain America and find a way to remove the serum.
Steve is unreasonable only if you pretend his entire previous movie didn't exist. SHIELD, the guys who are supposed to be the good guys, the guys who brought the Avengers together in the first place, the guys who were supposed to oversee the protection of the entire planet against threats like that, got infiltrated by literal Nazis to the point where they were one CGI action scene away from dominating the entire world by threat of force. If they can be subverted, anyone can. Steve's position is that they had to be true to their own sense of morality and being able to do the right thing because it is the right thing, not simply doing what other people tell them to do. Tony wanted to just run away and let someone else call the shots, and that completely goes against his entire character development from his own first movie.
Cap was 100% right about the Accords but then the movie became about like should Bucky get the death penalty without trial which is a totally separate can of worms
And Cap was 100% right about that too because Bucky was both being framed and being mentally conditioned by the actual villain. Executing him wouldn't have solved anything, and breaking him out of the conditioning gave the world another hero.
I agree with the exception I think Bucky should have a trial bc they need to get some laws on the books about mind control in the MCU, shit is only getting more comicy
Fair point in a vacuum, but the government had already demonstrated in that very movie that they were more than happy to just keep Bucky locked in a box underground for the rest of his life, instead of allowing actual justice and rehabilitation to take its course. And this was a case where rehabilitation was both possible and preferable, not one of those "give this super villain a fair trial and easily escapable prison" deals. If I were Cap I wouldn't trust them either.
Yeah the Government basically wanted to make an example of Bucky to show how they could take care of super villain threats on their own.
>comicy
Uhh you realize you’re watching a comic book movie?
Cap was right about the accords, by accident. The accords are a bad thing, because the government is swarmed with HYDRA. Hell, in his previous movie he fought government HYDRA infiltration. But he doesn't mention that. He says
>we know better than any representative of the people, always
which isn't the case. Like, at all. The accords are shit, but not because of why Steve says they're shit. Also, he doesn't address Stark's point at all, which is that the accords are happening with or without them, so to protect the team (and Wanda, who risks prison), they should sign the accords and adjust them as possible. If Steve's idea is to go on the run, to avoid signing them, because following them is restrictive, he's wrong again, because being on the run, without a base and resources is far more restrictive.
Furthermore, on the Bucky issue, yeah, obviously Bucky was brainwashed. He shouldn't get executed or even tried. He should get treatment. However, again, Steve's mistake is that he doesn't tell Stark from the beginning. If he tells him pre AoU, when he finds out, calmly, while they're together, away from Bucky, there's no reason to think Stark won't calm down and understand a brainwashed person isn't responsible. It's one thing to explain it to him calmly, a totally different thing to be told by being shown his parents' murder, on camera, after the stress of the team falling apart and to have Steve admit he knew and didn't tell him.
So yes, Steve is right that the accords are a (potentially) bad thing which not even Stark fully disagrees with.
He's utterly wrong on why they're bad, whether they should sign them and how he handled the Bucky situation.
>The accords are a bad thing
The accords affected a grand total of motherfricking *nothing* beyond what the Avengers allowed it affect, which was basically motherfricking *nothing* because even their biggest advocate (Stark) did whatever the frick he wanted independent of government oversight during and after the very same movie that made such a big deal about them, because there was a bare minimum effort to enforce them in the end...which ironically kind of retroactively makes Stark right about the accords, even if isn't necessarily for the wrong reasons ("Look, just SIGN them and we'll adjust to, amend where possible, and outright ignore them as necessary, and there's more than one example on the team, myself included, that makes a case for at least some system of accountability...)
And also, this attitude about Stark's treatment of Wanda makes for an interesting examination of the concept of basic right and wrong and how it can be, and whether not it indeed *should*, be applied to sentient WMDs with a will of their own...given what we know Wanda ends up becoming both by accident and then of her own free will...
>*even if isn't necessarily for the right reasons
I type fast when I have to shit
you are beyond moronic
I know you are, but what am I?
He's correct. If you could have refuted his arguments, you woudn't have resorted to an ad hominem.
homosexual.
>Accords are introduced
>Cap says they could easily be forced to do something illicit if they go along with this
>Cap's friend is framed
>all Avengers that went along with the Accords are now called into action to apprehend an innocent man and hand him over to authorities that clearly just want to kill him or stick him in a hole forever and wipe their hands of the affair
Individual rights are always more important than public "safety" no exceptions.
nah
yeah
mind control is a garbage copout. just like when toothless murdered hickups dad
>remove IP counter
>don’t make twitter screencaps a bannable offense
What’s the point of making changes if you aren’t making good ones?
Keep crying porn addict
???
What frick does porn addiction have anything do with that you terminally online moron?
>removed IP counter
What the frick, for what possible reason
Election year lol
yeah yeah, but how is this going to help?
It helps the people paying Hiro to shill on the board
Causing problems where some people couldn't use captcha
crust the pan 🙂
People who actually stared at the IP counter and used it as some kind of epic trump card were freaks and losers
>heh, you disagreed with me, but you also posted earlier in the thread... INVALIDATED!!!
Why did you need a Twitter screenshot for this? Why can't you just post your own opinion?
These fricking kids are turning Cinemaphile into an even shittier reddit
Anyone who ever sides with corporations should die
Cap was right on the accords and in general but was obviously wrong to not immediately inform Tony that one of the most significant events of his life wasn't actually a terrible accident. Tony's reaction is obviously understandable, the guy who his dad put on a pedestal his whole childhood and who he came to consider his own friend fricking lied to him to protect the guy who he just watched kill both his parents. Tony is fully aware that he was being brainwashed, and he explitly states that he doesn't care. How could he possibly remain level-headed? He just watched his mom get choked to death on camera. The fact that he didn't immediately take off and empty his entire arsenal into Bucky's face to death shows the maximum amount of restraint he was capable of in that moment.
I don't remember what either of them stood for. All I remember is the part at the beginning when a woman shames Stark because her son died in Ultron's attack, "and then the Avengers just left."
If the Avengers hadn't been there your son would still have died because Ultron wanted to destroy the world. I still remember that because of how moronic it was. If they had her blaming him for "saving the world" from Ultron when Stark was the reason Ultron attacked in the first place, that would be something.
ultron was starks fault
Yes I know, that's my point.
Go to Cinemaphile
Ultron was built by Ant Man.
All of Shield's secrets were dumped onto the internet at the end of Winter Solider, Stark is a lazy butthole for not reading them
Cap fricked up because he refused to tell anyone what Bucky did while he was HYDRAs pet. If he had told Tony at least a couple months after he found out, Tony would have been able to grieve and properly understand that Bucky was not in control when he killed his parents. But Steve couldn’t do it and it made Tony’s reaction all the worse. Plus the whole going back in time to marry Peg and do nothing while his best pal was being tortured for decades doesn’t help him at all.
Bucky fricked up in that he pretended he was controlled by hydra even though all they were doing was playing scrabble
Do we suppose Steve told anyone about Stark being a middle aged man, without a functioning armor, alone, in Siberia, or are we to assume he left him to die?
Wasn't Black Panther there?
Steve never saw him, though. As far Steve knows, Stark's alone.
No. Even without the armor, Tony's still loaded with a shit-ton of mobile communication devices. Tony could've easily called Friday to send an aircraft or a backup suit to his immediate location. Assuming Friday didn't do it automatically when Steve disabled the armor.
Because Tony was wrong and then went full revenge mode trying to kill Steve's last remaining friend from his time period
Can everyone just stop talking like Black folk? That would be great.
Anon we've always been Black folk, did you seriously forget Habbo Hotel?
Widow stated what the point of signing was, lower down the pressure so they could get a better handle on the issue. Even before going nuts who the hell could actually stop Wanda or Vision, and if someone tried to manipulate them doesn't she actually have the power to go into people's minds?
>this country seems to be objecting to us saving all those people
>wait, that diplomat is actually a fricking Hydra agent!
Atleast Tony's team didn't spawn a Multiversal murderer.
Are they supporting the Movie SRA or Tony beating on a brainwashing victim? I like to know exactly what I'm dismissing a twittergay for. More satisfying that way.
Tony needed be put in check for shit like Ultron, but saying others need to share the blame is bullshit. The accords were forgotten about by the time IW came out. Rhodey, who even supported them, told Ross to frick off.
I know SI made him a Skrull, but I don't watch the shows and don't care.
It's crazy to see how vastly different opinions on Cinemaphile are now vs. 2007, back when I saved this image. I don't know whether it's a MCU fans vs. comics fans thing, or a generational thing, or just normalgay opinions being normalgay opinions, but it's mindboggling to think people would side with Tony over the accords.
It’s because Cinemaphile and Cinemaphile at large are enormous miserable contrarians. Go to Cinemaphile, it’s littered with anons LARPing as hardcore Christians lol
then go back. nobody forced you to post here and nobody wants you here anyway
Shutup Christgay
im agnostic you upboat starved homosexual
>upboat
Cool, then shutup Maybegay
aaron schwartz was a homosexual and died like the homosexual he was
>baneposting
too recent. a refreshing bar of soap is a better litmus test.
>Shutup Christgay
Christ loves you. As a Christian, I therefore love you too. It doesn't sound like you have the most amount of love in your life. Why do you think that is?
What's a Christian doing on Cinemaphile? You should be worshiping God instead of wasiting your time with a bunch of devils and liking characters that contradict your bible.
I mean Christ was constantly hanging around places full of devils and characters contradicting his teachings
To preach and he didn't stay with them.
33 Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”
Follow your own bible.
The site wasn’t always full of contrarian pissbaby LARPers newbie.
You can't even remember fricking baneposting.
You don’t even remember when Milhouse wasn’t a meme. Sucks my nuts moron.
Well MCU vs Comic Civil War are super different.
Those are totally different stories
the only similarity is that both stories are stupid and everybody get character assassinated for the sake of drama
The only real personality change was Tony, who suddenly was pro-government supervision, and admittedly he had seen a lot of Alien Shit by then.
Are you talking about the comics or the movie? In the movie the plot just throw a ridiculously ammount of shit on Tony so he can freak out and be completely moronic, in the comic they just make him a pussy.
Captain America has no fans. After the MCU and Ironman hard carrying him, he was easily forgotten.
and ironman has become forgotten and spiderman picked the mantle back up like and wore it as he did before the MCU
America has no fans. It can't do anything right anymore
>industry outsourced to third world
>entertainment is propaganda
>military can't win wars
>citizens addicted to porn, drugs and fast food
>mandatory troony and black people worship
Yeah I totally want to cheer for the hero that simps for this failed nation
>Yeah I totally want to cheer for the hero that simps for this failed nation
That hasn't been true since he was selling war bonds. Cap nowadays represents the ideal of what America should be, and constantly goes against the flow because the current reality never lives up to it.
Threads about Cap always attract "AMERICA IS DOOMED" or seething thirdie types, I wouldn't read too much into it.
Wouldn't be a Cinemaphilemblr thread without the obligatory optimism shill
America will stop declining in two weeks
>Cap nowadays represents the ideal of what America should be
Handing everything over to smelly black people who have no qualifications for anything?
Most of the first world is like that too. America being a superpower is the only reason you noticed.
Apples to oranges: The Accords did jackshit besides sending Cap to Wankanda and Ross being upset about Iron Man leaving Earth; The SHRA was complete fascist shit and every new issue of the event kept making Tony & co. into Hitlerx100.
As much as MCU Tony wanted to do the right thing after iron man 1, he still constantly appeased his own guilt, trauma and narcissism. Ultron set forward a chain of events that ultimately cost him his own sacrifice. Had he not been so full of hubris and ego to try and alleviate his weird fears, the Avengers would have been together to defeat Thanos when he eventually showed up. Steve fights for what’s right, period. He sets his trauma aside to get the fricking job done, and uses logic to sit and think through problems. Tony fricked the greatest protection Earth had into the ground. He was wrong the moment he sought to “build a suit of armor around the world”. Hell, the fricking drone satellites that Peter was controlling with Edith was proof that Tony still wasn’t done being a psychopath.
>the fricking drone satellites that Peter was controlling with Edith was proof that Tony still wasn’t done being a psychopath.
I feel like that was something Marvel fought tooth and nail to take out of the movie, but Sony did it anyway to have their big ties to the MCU.
Is it just a coincidence that the two companies had a huge blowout between FFH and NWH, and then in NWH the drones are quickly brushed off and never mentioned again?
Cap is a lame, boring, dry ass character with no emotions.
Man of Steel is the withdrawn autist, not Cap,
Cap is a lame, boring, dry ass character with no emotions.
He's basically just superman except in ww2 and he got his powers later in life.
I find Cap a million times worse because he has zero emotions. He's a psychopath.
Cap is just a good-natured guy who's not easily pissed off.
Snyderman is rendered into a morose automaton by his Father's "suicide through paranoia", and can only be motivated to act by his Mommy or his girlfriend-mommy.
All DCEU/DC movies are shit, but Cap is still fricking ass. I don't give a single frick about DC, Captain American is so shit that you had to drag out a random ass capeshit character to cope because you can't defend your shitty boring solider. morons.
>Angered by bullies/bullying
>attracted to multiple women, not just the first mommy surrogate he stumbles onto
>has a wry, self-depreciating sense of humor
>isn't invincible son, so actually has to show courage
Comparatively Superman is just some gawping autist. He's much less human than even Evil Superman parodies.
After reading more marvel comics Civil War is even dumber bc the Avengers had government liaisons forever, FF are know celebs. I didn’t read any of the Kamala’s Law stuff but that made a lot more sense, focused directly at teen heroes with secret IDs who weren’t on teams or anything.
Mark Millar is fricking dumb
I mean I sided with Iron man in the comics too. Cap was being a dick in every universe.
Tony is a narcissist who forces his guilt on everyone else. He fricked up on numerous occasions essentially creating villains and problems. Then he projects that onto everyone else.
It is also quite telling that essentially Tony is the one who truly got emotional and went rogue at the end despite having the accords backing, he was essentially the out of control one.
I liked Civil War well enough but I wish Peter changed teams like he eventually does in the comics.
Makes more sense for his character and has the meta benefit of completely avoiding the Iron Boy Jr. stuff from Homecoming forward.
But I guess it would stack too many likable characters into Cap's team so the "both sides" perspective could've broken apart.
The issue is he's a glorified cameo in the first place so him switching sides would make him seem wishy washy or like Iron Man was a total moron for bringing this kid into the fight not knowing who he really was, without the time t develop him his turn wouldn't feel any kind of impactful but more like he was a dumb kid who didn't put any thought into joining and was easily flipped because his lack of thought into this conflict which he knows nothing about in the first place.
>My gay porn is more popular than your gay porn
"Teams" didn't really matter past the airport fight anyway. Most of Caps team got arrested and most of Ironman's team left for whatever reason. The final was just Cap and Bucky vs Tony.
Yes, yes, we know - you're heart was broken when it turned out that Stucky was way more interesting and more popular - not much actually more relevant to the disaster that was the MCU, than your fapfic head cannon of a true pure perfect peak human Steve Rogers loving an old, haggard, drunken manlet.
It's okay, anon. Crying will make you feel so much better.
you homie still wanna trust the mcu goverment after they were gonna nuke new york? the frick is wrong with you people?
lol people vote for genocidal morons in real life even when the evidence is monumental
On the subject of telling Tony about what happened to his parents, Cap was in the wrong.
Everything else, I'm on Cap's side.
Why would he tell Tony when he absolutely 100% knew how Tony would react. Bucky was on the run. I imagine Steve’s plan was to get Bucky rehabilitated and safe before telling Tony Jack shit, since Tony would have gone on a fricking rampage trying to find and kill Bucky.
He knew ever since part way through Winter Soldier.
How much time has passed since then and Civil War?
He could have found some way to tell him the unfortunate news. People do that in real life all the time, you don't actually need a narratively dramatic setting and scenario to make the reveal.
It seemed like Tony calmed down pretty well by the end of Civil war anyway, and the man who killed his parents is still out there somewhere. He mellows out a lot in Homecoming and Infinity War.
Now imagine if he was told the whole story without Bucky right there for him to lash out in anger at. Imagine if he didn't have to deal with the betrayal that Steve kept this hidden from him.
Yeah but put yourself in Steve’s shoes. He’s a strategist, and Bucky is his one soft spot besides Peggy. He knows Tony is impulsive and emotional, and he also knows Tony has enough tech at his fingertips to find and possibly murder Bucky out of rage. This is while no one knows if Bucky has rehabilitated himself at all too.
Telling him is still the right thing to do. I'll protect my friend if there's a decent chance he can be saved, and I'll try to reason with him until he realizes the full truth.
Tony has dealt with mind control before, with Loki's staff, and he's even been the victim of mind manipulation in Age of Ultron. He's more likely than almost anyone to understand.
one thing i like about homecoming is how it works to help Tony Stark overcome the dark situations he has been in the last too movies. its nice to see him a bit happier
>Iron Man is a moron
Shocker
Uh, what?
STEVE YOU BROKE MY HEART!