I don’t get how this is Spider-Man’s number 1 enemy. Venom and doctor octopus are far more iconic.
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 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
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I dont get how this is Spider-Mans number 1 enemy. Venom and doctor octopus are far more iconic.
I don’t get how this is Spider-Man’s number 1 enemy. Venom and doctor octopus are far more iconic.
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Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
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He killed Gwen Stacy, Spidey's girlfriend.
And then immediately died, meaning for 20 years he had no bad stories.
Meanwhile his son got to have a lengthy run as Goblin where he was psychologialcally tortured by his loyalty to his abusive father and his friendship with the guy who killed him.
i always had the feeling the goblin felt bad when spidey kind of killed stacey himself breaking her neck because of the whiplash, she probably would have died for the fall nonetheless but i think the writers consciously chose the reaction and lines by goblin immediately after her death
>Doctor Octopus
>More iconic than Green Goblin
0/10 bait.
I’ve seen several characters co-opt the extendable metal limbs thing from Ock.
Goblin hasn’t really influenced anything, he’s not iconic at all. Only thing I could think of is the time that stephen king b-movie used a disposable toy truck with his face on it
>Villain on the first Big storyarc
>Killed Captain Stacy
>Married Peter aunt
>Gang war
>Almost killed Peter
>Almost destroyed the earth
>His film was more memorable than every Goblin appear in others media
Ok, Venom, Rhino and Sandman are unironically better than Goblin because they are more versatile, everytime they try to do something different with Norman I cringe
>Venom
Black person, you can't be serious.
Venom was one of the shittiest Spider-Man villains until he got his hackneyed "redemption" and became the edgy "good guy".
His "Spider-Man but evil: alien goo edition" spot was taken by an even more boring and one-dimensional edgelord.
He's far more propped up by the secondary media than Goblin ever was. Venom is fricking trash.
People love Venom. He's still more popular than anyone in Spider-Ma barring Peter Parker.
>muh popular
Fricking moron, have a nice day.
I agree with you that Venom's writing in the 90s was pretty meh but I still think conceptually he works better as Spidey's darker reflection.
"Dark reflection" is another reason Venom is shit, honestly. "Hero... but evil" is the most basic b***h supervillain writing choice you can make.
At the very least Ock is distinct enough from Spider-Man despite the similarities.
And even then, before Venom there was Scorpion who had the exact same niche, so Venom is doubly uncreative of an idea for a villain.
I may not like Ock because I generally hate the "superhumanly strong hero vs squishy normal human villain" matchups when it comes to physical superhero fights but I would put that above Venom.
>And even then, before Venom there was Scorpion who had the exact same niche
On a surface gimmick-level, I guess. The problem with Scorpion was he seemed bereft of potential to most writers and no one ever really did much with him past his original story. I like Mac but even I can admit there's more going on with Eddie Venom on a conceptual level. The personal connection with Peter provides more storytelling meat
That personal connection is really stupid and puddle-deep, though.
>I'm a shitty journalist
>Peter Parker is better at my job than I am
>HATE PETER PARKER
And honestly a lot of faults with Scorpion are on the writers. Mostly on the "haha, the villain is so stupid" mindset.
You're telling me they could find a writer who can take an absolute shit-tier villain like Kraven and make him one of the greatest Spider-Man villains with just one story, but Scorpion is a lost cause?
Dark reflections are popular for a reason. It's strong thematically and highlights the character strengths, as well as providing some cool dynamics of characters with differing worldviews. Peter used his power to uphold responsibility and help others, Eddie used his power to blame others for his issues and hurt them. Way more to work with here on a personal than Scorpion's hate-boner for Jameson, even if that was a cool idea in its own right.
Is Dock Ok not a dark reflection of Spider-Man
>Smart Scientist
>Both names deal with 8 limbs
Well that's all I've got so far.
Yes, he is. The hateboner for dark reflections is silly because when there's few thematic similarities you end up with a weird gimmick nemesis like Goblin.
>agree with you that Venom's writing in the 90s was pretty meh
Writing in all era you mean.
>First he was psycho killer
>then a edgy anti hero
>then a poor guy who got cancer because of the symbiote
>then he became anti Venom
>then he became Toxin
>then he was back to Venom
>then he somehow became a cosmic god
Don't let me get started on the symbiote's """"lore"""" too.
It's easy to mock Cates but there's a lot more going on with Eddie there than cosmic bullshit. He became a father and matured far past his initial petty hatred of Spidey.
I guess being written by Ewing has its perk.
Venom has a goo look, but he was a second rate villain since he had no other stories than go get revenge.
Even as a Spidey villain he was more like a dirty hobo that just came at Peter with no plan in mind. Sometimes during another villains grand scheme. Venom just appeared out of nowhere and attacked people.
Based. Harry-Goblin and Norman did the whole "knows my identity" schtick way better too
The only time in human history Sandman was even remotely interesting as a character is when he was a hero.
Otherwise it's either
>generic bank robber
or
>"muh daughter" sob story
>"muh daughter" sob story
That reminds me after I read Spider-Man Reign I made this autistic AU of Spidey villain kids.
Rhino is better than all of them and that's just a fact.
Doctor octopus was the first villain to have defeated spider man back during the original amazing spiderman run.
That gives you a lot of credit.
Things change. Goblin, whether it be Osborn Sr, or Jr *WAS* the number one. But he’s fallen off with time. It’s not Goblin who frontlines spider-man’s media in the post spiderman-2 world anon, it’s ock.
Venom lives on drip alone, To normies he is anti Spider-Man. Half the time he is Shadow the Spiderhodg.
Doc and Gobby aren't visually connected to Spider-Man from an outsider's perspective (ock has the arms things spiders & octos all have 8..but it’s probs coincidence and isn’t alluded to symbolically.) and even if you watch the movies or have picked up an odd comic book they were essentially just interchangeable bank robbers outside personal connections with Peter P.
Between Osborn men collectively Vs Otto, they’re both definitely capable of holding up as “arch nemesis" material for Spider-Man, but regardless of what some think of how his character has been handled over the years, Goblin suffers from a failure of identity. The design is goofy, he hasn’t evolved, It’s a skattershot of ideas. Halloweenies, super soldier drug madness, secret military tech of the week. Ock isn’t a clown ginger in green/yellow spandex anymore in the minds of anyone not terminally invested in comics. That the court of public opinion definitively says that OcK arms beat the hoverboard in aesthetically bouncing off with spider swinging fight scenes probably help as well.
>source: my ass
meanwhile, in NWH, Otto got turned good very early on, got bullied by Holland-Man for his name and had several Octopus jokes made about him. Norman went full Goblin mode and ruined Holland-Man's entire life and basically made him shit-scared of Goblins for the rest of his life.
Hoverboard>
tentacles
Because he's based on both Lex Luthor and Joker
Killing Gwen elevated him from being a goof. That's really it. From that point he went from schizo goof to mastermind of all Peter's problems.
He killed Gwen and then he died. Then Hobgoblin came out to replace him and then Green Goblin II came out. Norman was dead for like 20 years.
yeah but modern normies don't know that. Gwen Stacy's death is basically the only impactful thing a villain ever did to spider-man, and was adapted in movies, then they look at who did it and see it's the still-alive comic badguy who is in those movies. those 20 years of nothing happened in books they never read years before they were even born.
Ironic that you complain about normies but don't know that Goblin was already set up as a major villain long before killing Gwen. He was the only villain to discover Peter's identity years before that.
yeah obviously a major one, that’s how and why he killed gwen. But normies didn’t see that he just didn’t exist for decades and so assumed he was always the biggest villain permanently because he did a single plotpoint decades ago that is reused in modern movies. And just knowing an identity isn’t that big a thing, capes always have loads of villains who know who they are
No, it was absolutely a big thing in Silver Age. Most any villain you can name that knows their hero's secret identity either didn't exist or didn't know it then.
Also Norman never even killed Gwen in the movies.
Nah, Dikto considered Ock bigger in his run.
Lee didn't care as much about Goblin but Conway was the one that put Norman as bigger foe than Ock.
After Conway most writer considered Ock and Hobgoblin(and some of them used Harry) as the main foes until the 90s that used first Venom and then Carnage as the main villains with Hobgoblin trainwreck and Ock dying
Less Ock, more Hobgoblin and Venom. Ock has usually taken second place.
>Still alive villain who killed the hero's daughter
Ftfy
Cursed interloper was a great line.
Venom's popular but not really in relation to being a spider-man villain
Ock..has very little.
Norman was the first villain to find out peter's secret and act on that, that's what cemented him, almost a whole decade before killing gwen.
> ock has very little
> master planner storyline
> founder of the sinister six
> superior spiderman run
> one of the first villains to defeat spiderman
> intellectual superior
i mean to be runner up for archenmy? The only other one you missed was the gang war with owl
Lets compare with norman's okay?
>First villain with a secret identity of his own that escaped spider-man
>not caught until the start of the second artist's run
>finds out peter's secret
>connected as both a villain and supporting cast member
>first villain to be used in a spider-man comic outside of ASM
>first villain to show up in a spider-man videogame
>harry on drugs story
>the death of gwen stacy perhaps the single most influential spider-man comic of all time
>after his death harry and hobgoblin had to be made villains
>Harry's stint as the goblin in the 90s being one of if not the best spider-man comic ever made
>Hobgoblin becoming the first spider-man villain since romita to be popular
>once he came back he killed both ben reilly and mayday parker
>got elaborated as the mastermind behind the two year long clone saga
>Overarching villain for a bunch of lat e90s early 00s stories
>Revenge of the green goblin
>Identity crisis
>Death of the family
>the 12 issue Marvel knights book
>main villain of all of USM including being the one that gets to kill spider-man
>After this he went on to be the main villain in thunderbotsl book
>then became the main villain of dark reign an MU event
>then gets to hijack as the end boss for superior
>gets asm 800
>every single alternate spider is introduced with a goblin of some kind.
>First villain with a secret identity of his own that escaped spider-man
>not caught until the start of the second artist's run
>finds out peter's secret
Agree
>first villain to be used in a spider-man comic outside of ASM
Electro appear in Daredevil the month Green Goblin appear on ASM
>first villain to show up in a spider-man videogame
An Atari game that nobody remember , when most people remember the ones were Ock, Venom/Carnage or even kingpin are the villain
>harry on drugs story
That story outside the SM TAS cartoons is forgotten ironically
>the death of gwen stacy perhaps the single most influential spider-man comic of all time
Ironically month afters Ock killed Captain Stacy
>after his death harry and hobgoblin had to be made villains
>Harry's stint as the goblin in the 90s being one of if not the best spider-man comic ever made
For that rule , Kraven should be the archnemesis
>Hobgoblin becoming the first spider-man villain since romita to be popular
Don't get why you are using Hobgoblin with Green Goblin is like using Carnage to say Venom is a better nemesis
>once he came back he killed both ben reilly and mayday parker
>got elaborated as the mastermind behind the two year long clone saga
The mastermind of a bad saga and even the fans of that era didn't like his return
>Overarching villain for a bunch of lat e90s early 00s stories
Being the villain of the worst era for Spiderman (outside the current one) is not good
>main villain of all of USM including being the one that gets to kill spider-man
>After this he went on to be the main villain in thunderbotsl book
>then became the main villain of dark reign an MU event
>Bendis
>gets asm 800
And Ock got 700 and 900(with SS).
And in 500 It got the "Peter Will kill Ock"
I said spider-man comic outside of asm. He was in spectacular spider-man magazine #2. Not general marvel comic.
Doesnt change he was already prominent and got in before ock. The first prominent spider-man game was the ones with carnage not even ock or venom tbh.
It was the story that forced the comics code to start changing and had the us government ask stan to do it. Its a big deal.
No it was years after that. Gwen's death totally overshadowed captain's stacy's death.
Kraven has one thing, but that thing is bigger than 90 percent of every other villain.
Having a longstanding legacy is absolutely a claim. Only 3 spider-man villains have spin offs of any popularity. Venom, goblin and ock.
His return got a trade back when that was rare and it was a popular trade. And again, his return did more shit than all ock managed to do in the 70s, 80s and 90s with no goblin for competition.
I'm not talking BND, where ock was the closest to an overarching villain or early slott. Maybe the reboot, but late 90s early 00s wasn't a singular era, it was 3 distinct ones. And USM is a 100 fold more influential than Superior.
Oh and I forgot the first raimi film, being the influence over the next two, then being positioned as the reason for all the other ones in tasm and then being brought in nwh as the central one. Look goblin is the archnemesis.
He is still popular
So Spidey stole Electro while DD stole Kingpin
Who got the better tradeoff? It really depends tbh since Electro is obviously much more powerful than Fisk is, but Fisk historically has a much bigger presence in Marvel.
Do they also just share Tombstone as a villain?
>So Spidey stole Electro while DD stole Kingpin
No, he was saying Electro was the first Spider-Man villain to appear in another book.
Why is Nick Cage in that electro suit?
Is this the timeline where Jaime Foxx plays Ghost Rider?
I mean he did become a truck.
Because he was the villain in the movie. It's like how the Joker was the signature Batman villain after the Burton movie. I too see Doctor Octopus as the Spidey villain. Hell, I remember a comic where Doc Ock gives Spider-Man CPR because fighting him is the only thing that gives his life meaning. That stuck with me.
Really? No one is calling you moronic for these statements?
I'll Doc Ock take the cake because if I remember correctly he was the one of the first to give a L to Spider-man and he had the big Master Planner arc. Those and the fact he assembled the Sinister Six.
>killed Gwen Stacy
>was the villain of the first movie and a standout in it
>is the closest thing Spider-Man has to the Joker, the most famous capeshit villain of all time
This shit ain’t rocket science.
I agree that both Ock and Venom are better dark reflections of Peter. I'd say most of what makes Peter and Norman unique is the faux-father/son subtext but that doesn't necessarily lead to the best of rivalries. Oh and the Goblin outfit is silly. You're right that many other villain designs are more iconic.
I think it was stan Lee who said that dr ock was spideys intellectual superior while venom was his physical superior.
He also said Doc ock was Spider-Man's archenemy and Green Goblin is Peter's archenemy.
Does venom fit in to this philosophy?
his gaynemy
Unironically, a fairly accurate description of what venom is to Spider-Man.
I think Harry is a better nemesis that Norman.
He was before Norman came back.
90s Norman had some good shit before he got Byrned
Harry as a villain is a great short-term story, the final time around arguably one of the greatest Spider-Man stories, but he works so well because he's a sympathetic villain, the longer it runs and the more evil stuff he does, the harder it would have been to maintain that and keep it working, Arguably all the plans he had running that happened in the mid 90s after his death already push him over that line, the modern retcons of things Harry had been doing are moronic and should be retconned away, as they certainly push him past the point of being sympathetic.
Hobgoblin was never going to work as a long term archenemy replacement for Norman because he was the "nothing personnel, kid" of Spidey villains. He was the big mystery villain of the 80s, but even if the mystery hadn't played out the way it did, it's hard to see how he'd have stayed as The Guy for long after he was unmasked.
Doc Ock was Spidey's #1 villain (and the first to defeat him), Green Goblin one upped him by knowing his identity and killing his girlfriend. Also his son was Pete's best friend and a drug junky, in a time where drugs were not allowed to be put in comics - that story ended up hugely successful and relaxed (and ultimately destroyed) the comics code alliance, having a profound impact on comic books lasting to this very day.
Goblin is Spider-Man Joker, Octopus is Spider-Man Penguin. Octopus is the goofy punchbag arch villain(that sometimes still manage to beat the protagonist) while Goblin is the dangerous arch villain.
That's funny because in the 80s Spectacular Spider-Man there was an arc where Otto was juxtaposed against Owl (a way more obbious Penguin expy) and beat the shit out of him, being framed as the more dangetous/evil/psychotic of the two
Same in the 200s where he out-edged the new edgy villain Fusion, betraying and killing him
>Same in the 200s where he out-edged the new edgy villain Fusion, betraying and killing him
That was fun
>entire issue about Ock being a pathetic minion of Fusion completely under his control as Fusion mocks him
>then Ock reveals he was just faking it and murders his "boss", to be continued in part 2 where Ock is the villain
I honestly don't think Venom has had an iconic story like some of the other Spidey villains/ex-villains. He lives off his design, which honestly puts him in the same tier as Spider-Gwen.
What is Otto's iconic story?
>inb4 ASM 30-33
It's not iconic because of him.
as much as anons might hate it, Superior Spider-Man
>If this is my Destiny
>Gang war
>When Captain Stacy died
>Arachnophobia
>As much as we hate It Ends of Earth and Superior Spiderman
It had more but those are the basic.
Venom's origin is his iconic story. Just like Two-Face or Mr Freeze.
Venom's best showings are in cartoons and vidya, honestly.
99% of dark reflection villains are fricking awful, there's a reason Batman's archnemesis is Joker and not fricking Wrath or . Or why Zod is a shitty villain only popular thanks to (an admittedly good) movie.
Those that are good like Sabretooth or Reverse Flash are not good because "muh clashing worldviews", they're good because they're evil and scummy enough to the point that they're fun to read. Venom was always as boring as watching the paint dry.
That was Vulture.
Clashing worldviews are at the core of character conflicts. Every villain's worldview clashes with the hero's one way or another, but some capitalize on it more. Venom was boring because of Michelinie's mediocre writing, not because there's no obvious potential. He was better in the 90s cartoon in the hands of competent writers.
>in the 90s cartoon
He barely did anything other than beat up Spider-Man a few times before a hacky romance/redemption story with Kafka.
> that was vulture
Peter went on a moody trip about how he failed when he was thrown out of a window by ock.
He later managed to find resolve when he was convinced by Johnny storm that he shouldn’t give up during a group presentation.
It was one of the more significant early story arcs.
If anything Ock is the one with less iconic story of the three.
Every Spider-Man adapatation is seemingly mandated by law to at least reference 'the Night Gwen Stacy Died' and the (TAS versions of) Alien Suit Saga.
Spider-Troon's design sucks ass
He's just "the Joker," so they'll keep pushing him.
me? I'm a Macendalechad
Macendale, now that's a real waste of potential.
You have this highly-trained ex-Marine ex-CIA killing machine in theory, you give him all the cool tech to tangle with superheroes and eventually Kraven's potion so he could be strong enough to frick Demogoblin's shit up in a physical fight and just kill him off like a b***h.
With some good writing a villain like that would be a genuine big deal.
I love Roger Stern's Spider-Man, but he could be a petty frick sometimes.
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but I thought Stern offered to have Macendale kill Kingsley and become the one true Hobgoblin, and the editor at the time was sick of Macendale and wanted him to die instead.
That seems to be accurate, Stern had offered to just write a mini that would reveal to readers who his Hobgoblin had been but without keeping him around or taking away the version of Hobgoblin other writers were using, but one of the editors, Greenberg IIRC just hated Jason and wanted him dead, then Stern really went for it so hard that he's one of the only notable Spidey villains who's stayed dead.
I liked mid 80s competent Hobgoblin that always remained a few steps ahead of Peter. Of all the smart guy villains, none of them were smart where it mattered. They just built gadgets and jet boots.
Are you team Hobchudlin or team Demochadlin?
Jack O'Lantern > goblinshit.
Jack o Lantern was such a knockoff goblin too.
I really wish things just stopped at Hobgoblin. No Harry goblin, no resurrected Norman, or all the other goblin shit they invented in the 00s.
Harry Goblin predates Hobgoblin
Hobgoblin was always literally just diet Green Goblin
Yeah, he was “what if Norman Osborn but not (as) insane?”
Jack O'Lantern first appeared in the last issue of Machine Man's book, nobody would be comparing him to the Goblins if he hadn't been brought into the Spidey books afterwards, but even that happened before Hobgoblin. Jack has a distinctive enough costume in his own right that's even more Halloween themed than the Green Goblin ever was.
did peter just keep calling that dude the headless horseman or what?
I'm team there are way too many fricking goblins
They were even going to be a playable class in that cancelled Spider-Verse MMO IIRC
there are too many everything
Bless you, anon. I'm also a Normanbro though.
I love that Tangled Web story where Spidey's villains are b***hing about him making fun of them all the time, and one guy says Spider-Man doesn't act like that around him - takes off his hat, it's Norman, and he explains why
>iconic
Green Goblin actually antagonizes Spider-Man in compelling ways. His lack of utilization is an affront crime against literature.
While killing Gwen Stacy was a big deal for him and the writer's inability to stop referencing it, I feel like people another contributor.
Mainly, the Spider-Man animated series. Due to them accidentally ordering Hobgoblin toys rather than Green Goblin toys that left them giving Norman an arc over several episode before he even got to put on the mask. Meanwhile Ock and Hobby were treated more like important but still regular supervillains.
hes not. its a recent forced inve tion that he is relevant or somehow spidermans ultimate enemy.
He's been Spider-Mans arch nemesis since the 80s
I agree, that hack Conway really oughta stop coming up with these wild ideas and go back to the classics. Next thing you know we'll be having books about heroes that kill, like that Punisher fella that's starting to get oddly popular.
I like the aspect that Norman is one of the only villains with a fully functioning secret identity, where he's a corporate boss by day and an insane costumed terrorist by night and has to play those two roles without breaking
Maybe he's like Joker?
Frick Venom and frick symbiotes.
If you can use the gobby glob to be super powerful without going nuts, haven't you just recreated the fricking super soldier serum people wanted to fight wars with?
The real answer is that after his original unmasking story, he spent the rest of the silver age being this constant looming threat Peter knew would frick his life over sideways if his memory returned - and it returned regularly enough for that to not just be an empty threat either. All three "Goblin gets his memory back" stories are absolute classics.
Ock had a lot of good stories during this time period too, but he never had that "shit gets real" feel to him that Gobby had. Same with Kingpin.
Kingpin almost drowning JJ and Spidey felt very real to me as a kid
Mainly because that was the first Essential I read
It's probably because I was a Spider-man TAS kid, but Fisk always felt like a better foe to Spider-man than Norman to me.
As a crime-fighter, Pete's game is mostly a beat-em up. Fisk is playing a political strategy game instead. It takes Pete out of his comfort zone and into a field where his powers are useless and he's a real underdog.
I find it bizarre how Fisk was originally a Spider-Man villain in the comics, but is now synonymous with being the archenemy for daredevil.
Daredevil needs someone other than Bullseye (who's basically Joker in a black suit) to be as his main villain
He's already too much of an obvious Batman swipe as it is
The funny thing is Kingpin shares many commonalities with another huge Batman villain, Bane
They're both massively super strong crime lords who know the secret identities of their archnemesis'
Here's where the problem lies: Daredevil doesn't have any good original villains outside of Bullseye.
Also Kingpin/Bane comparison is a huge fricking stretch. Not to mention Kingpin was created first.
Kingpin isn't even a Daredevil original, he's a spider-import.
Hence why I said Bullseye is the only good original DD villain.
The Kingpin part was in response to Bane comparison and the implication that it makes Matt look like a DD ripoff.
Yeah I don't get why he compared him to Bane, he's more like the Penguin but big and strong.
>I find it bizarre how Fisk was originally a Spider-Man villain in the comics, but is now synonymous with being the archenemy for daredevil.
>because of HIS WEIGHT
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Didn't know where to post this stupidity but someone asked for interaction at a Five Guys in the last thread. Beware of really bad writing.
>Beware of really bad writing.
Be fair, it's not like you're Wells or final-arc Spencer or something.
Thanks for the burger fic, anon.
Aight weirdo
He seemed to be better at inventing cool gadgets and devices than Dock Ock.
And really, this thread opinion obviously comes from someone who read comics in the 90s, long after Norman was dead.
He killed Peter's one true love
Venom is the main villain of Spider-Man.
Venom is the main villain of Spider-Man.
Frick off, moron. We are not a symbiote!
He's the Joker to Spidey's Batman
If you aren't stupid, you can see that Norman, Otto and Venom are all personal reflections of Peter, they all work.
“Reflections” my ass, one is just a braindamaged dumbass who had krazy juice explode in his face, one is a fat guy whose tentacles made him go kookoo, and the last one is an alien that has a fetish for people wearing it.
Someone needs to google "shadow archetype".
Peter's "shadow archetype" is getting bukkaked with krazy juice and going evil because he has brain damage? damn...
YOU'RE NOT THE HOBGOBLIN!
Doc Ock is Peter's arch-enemy in the way that Captain Cold is. He's a recurring threat that makes things hard but never too personal. He's there to fight the Spider, not the Man.
Norman, meanwhile, is there for Parker first and foremost. He's Peter's Black Manta/Eobard Thawne. The Goblin is usually the most up front and personal of Peter's arches, whether it be Norman (with him killing Gwen and fricking with Peter for years as cruelly as possible) or Harry (with shit like Child Within/Best of Enemies or the fake parents).
Octavius basically raped Peter by possessing his body, you can't get more personal than that.
It's really funny how everyone insists that Ock didn't rape Peter until it comes time for the fandom to discuss who is the archenemy. If we accept he raped Peter, then we really should not be discussing how "sympathetic" he is in comparison to Osborn either but that stops nobody.
If anyone in charge of comics admits that Otto Octavius raped Peter Parker and Anna Maria Marconi, it'd basically be character suicide for Otto. So now he's stuck in Schrödinger's rapist status and any of his interactions with Peter are really weird since nobody brings that up anymore. From a character standpoint, it just reads like Peter "got over" being raped. It's a really weird character beat for him tbh.
> Anna Maria Marconi
What was the point of making her a midget?
I forgot that he jerked off with Peter's body.
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Spidey offices really like storylines that very heavily imply that a character got raped, but lol who cares
But that ended with Ock willingly surrendering Peter’s body back because he couldn’t handle Norman.
I've never really understood his theme. The goblin part just has nothing to do with his powers or gadgets? Why is the goblin riding around on a fricking jet-powered plank with a scary face on it? Why is he throwing around pumpkin bombs with faces carved into them, as if bombs or Halloween has something to do with goblins? Hobgoblin at least has the Halloween colour palette going on to match the pumpkins, which is part of why I used to think he was the OG and GG was ripping him off when I was a kid.
Still, he's way more iconic than venom will ever be.
so, it doesn't really come through as much nowadays, but you can read early Goblin as being more similar to a witch-like character (the early broomstick glider, the frogs and bats he used as weapons). I know Ditko said Stan wanted him to be some sort of bullshit Egyptian curse thingy, but I wonder if Ditko himself was thinking more in the direction of magicless sorcery with the theming, which later on got dropped when the design didn't much make sense for it, though the name and outfit stayed the same with the gadgets being modified.
The Chameleon will always be the #1 Spidey villain.
More villains should be taken out by Aunt May's Almond Cookies.
since this is the unofficial Spidey thread, I'll post the preview for ASM #49 here
that's all
Much as I hate this run, I want Rabbit to gruesomely kill hundreds while she's a vampire and be completely broken by remorse-PTSD when she is cured.
>Much as I hate this run
Is there some other stuff that's terrible about it? I haven't payed any attention in years. Because NYC being overrun by vamps sounds like an absolutely delicious run.
>Is there some other stuff that's terrible about it?
JRJR's low-effort JRJart strikes again
Though I can hardly blame him for phoning it in on this run these days
Are these Morbs, or more Spider Totem nonsense?
those seem to be just regular Vampires powered by Blade
Because he's not, Mephisto is
Enemy? Mephisto is his ally. Best divorce attorney souls can buy.
All good heroes have three major villain types, a shadow, and antithesis, and a nemesis. Sometimes the nemesis can be one of these other two, but sometimes they're enough one their own.
A shadow is the dark version of the hero, they're everything they are, but inverted. For Spider-man that's Venom.
An antithesis is the reverse of the hero, Everything that the hero is they are not.
For Spider-man that's Doc Ock.
A nemesis has no real defining traits, they're just the one that is constantly at odds with the hero, more than anyone else. They are the one that will always be there to stand in the heroes way at every turn, and for Spider-man, that is Green Goblin.
OK but what's Mephisto?
The Temptress who only appears to guide the hero off the path of good. That's who he is for all heroes he interacts with.
Mephisto's not a Spider-man villain, he's just a general antagonistic force across the marvel universe.
Mephisto is the absolute worst kind of villain type. The one capable of doing much MUCH more damage than any other kind.
This villain type is called "the writer".
Or in this particular instance "the editor".
Him from powerpuff girls is unironically better
I thought Gobby was a guy hiding his identity behind a mask, who got his powers from a lab experiment at Oscorp, struggles with trying to balance both personas at once and has an indomitable will that will never let him give up.
Also, Otto was everything Peter wanted to be, a genius who uses his gift in the service of others, Otto just threw all of that away when he became Doctor Octopus.
Venom is all of Peter's worst traits dialed up to eleven with basically none of his good parts, more power but no responsibility.
>Otto was everything Peter wanted to be
No, that's Osborn, he's straight up what Peter described as his life goal in the original run, a rich sucessful businessman and inventor who changed the world while still working only for himself.
The best stories and storyarc, and had the biggest impact on Peter's life
If Ock had stayed married to Aunt May that would have elevated him to Goblin tier but by that point status quo had set in and no villain could ever have that much impact again