I'm not sure it's trying to say a specific message. It's a character study about a guy who's so isolated from humanity, despite being constantly surrounded by people, that he gives lectures on how to push people and attachment from your life and goes and flies around the country firing people he's never met. He's put his guard up so he can avoid being hurt and ironically the one time he decides to drop that guard he finds the person he drops it for has insulated their actual life from him.
I guess if there's a message it could be if you close yourself off from everyone don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life.
>I guess if there's a message it could be if you close yourself off from everyone don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life.
His sister loved him and Vera Farmiga only ultimately rejected him because she was already married and their road warrior relationship was nothing more than her woman moment. I don't remember there being any indication she was going to end things before he showed up at her house and even then it seemed like she was open to fricking around if they were both in the same city later on. It was just him who decided he wanted more and couldn't do it anymore.
>His sister loved him
Yeah, she loves him because he's family but their relationship is clearly strained because he's chosen to live a life in which close relationships are involved as little as possible. It's been a long time since I've seen it but I'm not sure if he was even planning on attending his sister's wedding until Vera convinces him to go, though I might be misremembering that. >Vera Farmiga only ultimately rejected him because she was already married
She tells him point blank that he's an escape. She's using him because she just wants sex with a handsome man and she was under the impression he has absolutely no desire for a relationship. >I don't remember there being any indication she was going to end things before he showed up at her house
He didn't even know she had a husband and family. He assumed she was just like him, a person with no relationships but Anna had inspired him to take a chance and give her the option to have someone in her life and form a deep connection with but she already had her own life, one she'd kept secret from him and one which she values because she's pissed at him for showing up at her doorstop and jeopardising it.
But that's not really like she didn't want him to be part of her life. She had no room for him in her real life and lied about this by omission the whole time. It was fair enough for her to assume he wouldn't ever want anything serious but as this was presented as a shock twist ending you wouldn't expect the woman who isn't wearing a wedding ring and gets herself picked up from the hotel bar and attends your sister's wedding as your guest to be married with kids back home and that's the real reason she couldn't commit. There's a difference between that and just being a loner who experiences character growth.
>But that's not really like she didn't want him to be part of her life.
It's exactly like that. >that's the real reason she couldn't commit
If she weren't in a relationship she wouldn't commit to him. Who would when he's made it his life's purpose to remove commitment, obligation or closeness? Would you want that in a partner? His life choices have made him suitable as a fling at best and without any kind of change that will remain the case.
>It's exactly like that.
Re-read the next sentence to see why that's not true. >If she weren't in a relationship she wouldn't commit to him.
You can't just claim to know that when the entirety of their relationship was under false pretenses. >Who would when he's made it his life's purpose to remove commitment, obligation or closeness?
Kind of like what he thought she was? >Would you want that in a partner?
Would I want someone who led me to believe she was like me and led the same lifestyle and would understand things that would make normal relationships impossible? It seems like he did. >His life choices have made him suitable as a fling at best and without any kind of change that will remain the case.
And yet she's the one cheating on her husband who has no idea. Alternate ending with George mailing him their sextapes when??
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Re-read the next sentence to see why that's not true.
I don't need to. Her life is the part she keeps insulated and away from him. He is an escape and she tells him that. A vacation away from the kind of life he's specifically chosen to avoid. >You can't just claim to know that when the entirety of their relationship was under false pretenses.
The fact she has a family is enough to know that. >Kind of like what he thought she was?
Exactly, he falsely assumes she's like him and also that like him she's starting to yearn for that closeness, but she's not yearning, she has it. >Would I want someone who led me to believe she was like me and led the same lifestyle and would understand things that would make normal relationships impossible? It seems like he did.
His move is made under the impression she wants something more, like he clearly does despite all he says. He's inspired to chase her and give her that opportunity in part because of his desire and part because of Anna's cajoling that she deserves it, not realising she already has it. >And yet she's the one cheating on her husband who has no idea.
I don't know what point you're trying to make here regarding his choices and how he has rendered himself unsuitable as a partner.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>he falsely assumes she's like him
I know the answer in the current year but in 2009 were you really supposed to ask women who weren't wearing a ring if they're secretly married? >I don't know what point you're trying to make here
Oh I get it now, you're a woman. Post breasts.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>I know the answer in the current year but in 2009 were you really supposed to ask women who weren't wearing a ring if they're secretly married?
She's deceptive but at the same time had he asked her anything about her life he might have known she was hiding something. He doesn't realise because he doesn't actually know anything about her. >Oh I get it now, you're a woman. Post breasts.
No I'm not. What point were you trying to make in relation to the choices he's made that rendered him unsuitable as a partner and won't change if he doesn't? Stating that she's a c**t that's using him is a non sequitur.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The part of him that made him an unsuitable partner changed. It's something that happens both in movies and real life. The reason she couldn't, not wouldn't but literally could not reciprocate was because she was lying about herself the entire time. She didn't simply fail to have the same character growth that he experienced by the end of the story. She didn't even decide by the end she just didn't like him that much. She was always someone else. That is not him ending up with nothing because she didn't want him to be a part of her life, because the her in that sentence never existed.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The part of him that made him an unsuitable partner changed. It's something that happens both in movies and real life. The reason she couldn't, not wouldn't but literally could not reciprocate was because she was lying about herself the entire time.
So we've literally gone full circle to you know arguing my original point to me?
I'm not sure it's trying to say a specific message. It's a character study about a guy who's so isolated from humanity, despite being constantly surrounded by people, that he gives lectures on how to push people and attachment from your life and goes and flies around the country firing people he's never met. He's put his guard up so he can avoid being hurt and ironically the one time he decides to drop that guard he finds the person he drops it for has insulated their actual life from him.
I guess if there's a message it could be if you close yourself off from everyone don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life.
>He's put his guard up so he can avoid being hurt and ironically the one time he decides to drop that guard he finds the person he drops it for has insulated their actual life from him. >That is not him ending up with nothing because she didn't want him to be a part of her life, because the her in that sentence never existed.
And he didn't realise it because he wasn't aiming to form a connection. The trajectory he took still sees him end up with nothing more than a trinket which serves as a reminder to the relationships he's avoided. Him giving Anna a recommendation and transferring the miles to his sister and her new husband are steps the show he might commit to trying to form connections, even after his last attempt fell through, but the path he chose is why he ended up where he did.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I'm arguing your original point back to you because you still don't seem to understand it yourself. >don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life
The "their life" here wasn't real. There was no "their life" to be a part of because the noncommittal career woman who also travels 360+ days of the year didn't exist. Maybe in 2024 she would want to bring a bull into her marriage but in 2009 that was probably more rare. >And he didn't realise it because he wasn't aiming to form a connection.
Not at first but that's why the movie ran for an additional 90 minutes or so. Was he really supposed to think that the woman who also has a wallet full of frequent flier cards like him is just praying a picture of her kids doesn't slip out by accident? If he was instead playing a spook and interrogated her maybe she'd slip up eventually but why is he supposed to think to have to do this? Why was talking about their common interests and experiences his mistake?
3 months ago
Anonymous
>The "their life" here wasn't real.
Her life is the thing she keeps hidden from him. She keeps it hidden from him because of the kind of person he is and he doesn't ask or care because he's the kind of person he is. If he weren't who he is they never would have hooked up in the first place, she likes him because he's non-committal and that works for her purposes. >Not at first but that's why the movie ran for an additional 90 minutes or so.
Yeah, and that's the irony. Once he's finally ready to let his guard down it's for a woman he realises he knew nothing about because she'd kept her life separate from him and he permitted it because he didn't want to know. >Why was talking about their common interests and experiences his mistake?
They bond over their work schedules and his minor celebrity as the speaker who doesn't keep any close personal attachments.
When you actually try and find out more about a person the facade crumbles or they become evasive. She didn't need to because he didn't care about anything other than superficialities and when he finally realised he did he took a shot but she already had that in her life, he wasn't needed or desired for that from her.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>he doesn't ask or care because he's the kind of person he is >she'd kept her life separate from him and he permitted it because he didn't want to know
Acting like it's reasonable to assume she might be withholding something like being married and he should have probed harder on that, or believing some other guy who didn't have his character faults would have thought to do so is positively deranged. Any man who hooked up with her on the road and made the mistake of developing feelings later on was going to meet the same fate. >and when he finally realised he did he took a shot
So he did change. Maybe he thought she did or could have too. >but she already had that in her life,
If she got married or even just started seriously dating some other guy _after_ she met him this might matter and have something to say about him as a person but >he wasn't needed or desired for that from her.
is a pretty disingenuous way of explaining why he ends up alone. Of course he's not needed in the life she never let on about. In the movie that says cucking is bad her husband must not know what's going on. If she's never slipped up with him she's not going to get tricked by someone else.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>Acting like it's reasonable to assume she might be withholding something like being married and he should have probed harder on that, or believing some other guy who didn't have his character faults would have thought to do so is positively deranged.
I don't think it's reasonable but it explains why he didn't know anything about her. I'm not saying he should've probed harder, I'm saying he just didn't care to. >Any man who hooked up with her on the road and made the mistake of developing feelings later on was going to meet the same fate.
Yes, hooking up with people on the road isn't a good way to form meaningful connections but it's the only option you have if you've chosen to devote your life to having no close connections and flying across the country to constantly avoid people. >So he did change. Maybe he thought she did or could have too.
I never said he didn't change, it's just that by the time he realised what he wanted he was locked into wanting it with someone who had a life and didn't want him part of it. >If she got married or even just started seriously dating some other guy _after_ she met him this might matter and have something to say about him as a person but
All it says is he's disposable to her and he's like that because of how he's chosen to live his life. >is a pretty disingenuous way of explaining why he ends up alone.
Not really, he's ended up alone due to a lifetime of choices. >Of course he's not needed in the life she never let on about.
And the life he never cared to know about. You don't build that life with someone that avoids commitment and relationships. >In the movie that says cucking is bad her husband must not know what's going on.
He clearly doesn't because she's pissed at him for showing up on her doorstop and almost giving it away.
3 months ago
Anonymous
>by the time he realised what he wanted he was locked into wanting it with someone who had a life and didn't want him part of it.
No he was locked into wanting it with someone who had a life just like his who he thought he could make it work with because of their shared experiences. >but-
No, the point is if she wasn't married, which to him she wasn't and should never have been expected to be, it was a completely reasonable thing to assume a more serious relationship between the two of them at least had a chance. Nothing about who he was before meeting her is why he missed the one reason they could never be together. She being herself is why he "missed" it.
[...]
My toxic trait is losing sleep when people are wrong on the Internet.
[...]
Not what I was saying at all. If you're the kind of guy who avoids connections then a deceptive woman is probably all you're limited to. Or post-wall women in bars.
Does her husband travel for work? He's clearly limited himself to deceptive women too. What did he do wrong to deserve her?
Was this really Vera? Could be since she's shown herself off nude enough and she has a great body but this just looks a bit better than her other nude scenes.
Reitman Take corporate logic and applies it to logic end point.
It’s the same logic in fight club, as you will recall, when a car has a defect that reliably kills people when it is triggered. If the cost of the recall is more than the cost of all suspected lawsuits, the recall is not done. The lost lifes does not enter into the discussion
What the movie is trying to say is you live in a simulacrum reality/morality created by the forces of corporate life, that once created, are now beyond the controls of even the executive actors of the corporations thenselfs. There is no sense to any of it
Not what I was saying at all. If you're the kind of guy who avoids connections then a deceptive woman is probably all you're limited to. Or post-wall women in bars.
Firing people isn’t nice
Hes a neet but at the same time he has a high paying job that makes him travel a lot
find a job that makes you happy. even if that job is being hired to fire people
I'm not sure it's trying to say a specific message. It's a character study about a guy who's so isolated from humanity, despite being constantly surrounded by people, that he gives lectures on how to push people and attachment from your life and goes and flies around the country firing people he's never met. He's put his guard up so he can avoid being hurt and ironically the one time he decides to drop that guard he finds the person he drops it for has insulated their actual life from him.
I guess if there's a message it could be if you close yourself off from everyone don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life.
Is this a ChatGPT thing? Because if not pretty good
>someone writes a coherent idea in proper sentences
>Is this a chatgpt thing?
Sad.
>I guess if there's a message it could be if you close yourself off from everyone don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life.
His sister loved him and Vera Farmiga only ultimately rejected him because she was already married and their road warrior relationship was nothing more than her woman moment. I don't remember there being any indication she was going to end things before he showed up at her house and even then it seemed like she was open to fricking around if they were both in the same city later on. It was just him who decided he wanted more and couldn't do it anymore.
>His sister loved him
Yeah, she loves him because he's family but their relationship is clearly strained because he's chosen to live a life in which close relationships are involved as little as possible. It's been a long time since I've seen it but I'm not sure if he was even planning on attending his sister's wedding until Vera convinces him to go, though I might be misremembering that.
>Vera Farmiga only ultimately rejected him because she was already married
She tells him point blank that he's an escape. She's using him because she just wants sex with a handsome man and she was under the impression he has absolutely no desire for a relationship.
>I don't remember there being any indication she was going to end things before he showed up at her house
He didn't even know she had a husband and family. He assumed she was just like him, a person with no relationships but Anna had inspired him to take a chance and give her the option to have someone in her life and form a deep connection with but she already had her own life, one she'd kept secret from him and one which she values because she's pissed at him for showing up at her doorstop and jeopardising it.
But that's not really like she didn't want him to be part of her life. She had no room for him in her real life and lied about this by omission the whole time. It was fair enough for her to assume he wouldn't ever want anything serious but as this was presented as a shock twist ending you wouldn't expect the woman who isn't wearing a wedding ring and gets herself picked up from the hotel bar and attends your sister's wedding as your guest to be married with kids back home and that's the real reason she couldn't commit. There's a difference between that and just being a loner who experiences character growth.
>But that's not really like she didn't want him to be part of her life.
It's exactly like that.
>that's the real reason she couldn't commit
If she weren't in a relationship she wouldn't commit to him. Who would when he's made it his life's purpose to remove commitment, obligation or closeness? Would you want that in a partner? His life choices have made him suitable as a fling at best and without any kind of change that will remain the case.
>It's exactly like that.
Re-read the next sentence to see why that's not true.
>If she weren't in a relationship she wouldn't commit to him.
You can't just claim to know that when the entirety of their relationship was under false pretenses.
>Who would when he's made it his life's purpose to remove commitment, obligation or closeness?
Kind of like what he thought she was?
>Would you want that in a partner?
Would I want someone who led me to believe she was like me and led the same lifestyle and would understand things that would make normal relationships impossible? It seems like he did.
>His life choices have made him suitable as a fling at best and without any kind of change that will remain the case.
And yet she's the one cheating on her husband who has no idea. Alternate ending with George mailing him their sextapes when??
>Re-read the next sentence to see why that's not true.
I don't need to. Her life is the part she keeps insulated and away from him. He is an escape and she tells him that. A vacation away from the kind of life he's specifically chosen to avoid.
>You can't just claim to know that when the entirety of their relationship was under false pretenses.
The fact she has a family is enough to know that.
>Kind of like what he thought she was?
Exactly, he falsely assumes she's like him and also that like him she's starting to yearn for that closeness, but she's not yearning, she has it.
>Would I want someone who led me to believe she was like me and led the same lifestyle and would understand things that would make normal relationships impossible? It seems like he did.
His move is made under the impression she wants something more, like he clearly does despite all he says. He's inspired to chase her and give her that opportunity in part because of his desire and part because of Anna's cajoling that she deserves it, not realising she already has it.
>And yet she's the one cheating on her husband who has no idea.
I don't know what point you're trying to make here regarding his choices and how he has rendered himself unsuitable as a partner.
>he falsely assumes she's like him
I know the answer in the current year but in 2009 were you really supposed to ask women who weren't wearing a ring if they're secretly married?
>I don't know what point you're trying to make here
Oh I get it now, you're a woman. Post breasts.
>I know the answer in the current year but in 2009 were you really supposed to ask women who weren't wearing a ring if they're secretly married?
She's deceptive but at the same time had he asked her anything about her life he might have known she was hiding something. He doesn't realise because he doesn't actually know anything about her.
>Oh I get it now, you're a woman. Post breasts.
No I'm not. What point were you trying to make in relation to the choices he's made that rendered him unsuitable as a partner and won't change if he doesn't? Stating that she's a c**t that's using him is a non sequitur.
The part of him that made him an unsuitable partner changed. It's something that happens both in movies and real life. The reason she couldn't, not wouldn't but literally could not reciprocate was because she was lying about herself the entire time. She didn't simply fail to have the same character growth that he experienced by the end of the story. She didn't even decide by the end she just didn't like him that much. She was always someone else. That is not him ending up with nothing because she didn't want him to be a part of her life, because the her in that sentence never existed.
>The part of him that made him an unsuitable partner changed. It's something that happens both in movies and real life. The reason she couldn't, not wouldn't but literally could not reciprocate was because she was lying about herself the entire time.
So we've literally gone full circle to you know arguing my original point to me?
>He's put his guard up so he can avoid being hurt and ironically the one time he decides to drop that guard he finds the person he drops it for has insulated their actual life from him.
>That is not him ending up with nothing because she didn't want him to be a part of her life, because the her in that sentence never existed.
And he didn't realise it because he wasn't aiming to form a connection. The trajectory he took still sees him end up with nothing more than a trinket which serves as a reminder to the relationships he's avoided. Him giving Anna a recommendation and transferring the miles to his sister and her new husband are steps the show he might commit to trying to form connections, even after his last attempt fell through, but the path he chose is why he ended up where he did.
I'm arguing your original point back to you because you still don't seem to understand it yourself.
>don't be surprised if you end up with nothing and people don't want you to be a part of their life
The "their life" here wasn't real. There was no "their life" to be a part of because the noncommittal career woman who also travels 360+ days of the year didn't exist. Maybe in 2024 she would want to bring a bull into her marriage but in 2009 that was probably more rare.
>And he didn't realise it because he wasn't aiming to form a connection.
Not at first but that's why the movie ran for an additional 90 minutes or so. Was he really supposed to think that the woman who also has a wallet full of frequent flier cards like him is just praying a picture of her kids doesn't slip out by accident? If he was instead playing a spook and interrogated her maybe she'd slip up eventually but why is he supposed to think to have to do this? Why was talking about their common interests and experiences his mistake?
>The "their life" here wasn't real.
Her life is the thing she keeps hidden from him. She keeps it hidden from him because of the kind of person he is and he doesn't ask or care because he's the kind of person he is. If he weren't who he is they never would have hooked up in the first place, she likes him because he's non-committal and that works for her purposes.
>Not at first but that's why the movie ran for an additional 90 minutes or so.
Yeah, and that's the irony. Once he's finally ready to let his guard down it's for a woman he realises he knew nothing about because she'd kept her life separate from him and he permitted it because he didn't want to know.
>Why was talking about their common interests and experiences his mistake?
They bond over their work schedules and his minor celebrity as the speaker who doesn't keep any close personal attachments.
When you actually try and find out more about a person the facade crumbles or they become evasive. She didn't need to because he didn't care about anything other than superficialities and when he finally realised he did he took a shot but she already had that in her life, he wasn't needed or desired for that from her.
>he doesn't ask or care because he's the kind of person he is
>she'd kept her life separate from him and he permitted it because he didn't want to know
Acting like it's reasonable to assume she might be withholding something like being married and he should have probed harder on that, or believing some other guy who didn't have his character faults would have thought to do so is positively deranged. Any man who hooked up with her on the road and made the mistake of developing feelings later on was going to meet the same fate.
>and when he finally realised he did he took a shot
So he did change. Maybe he thought she did or could have too.
>but she already had that in her life,
If she got married or even just started seriously dating some other guy _after_ she met him this might matter and have something to say about him as a person but
>he wasn't needed or desired for that from her.
is a pretty disingenuous way of explaining why he ends up alone. Of course he's not needed in the life she never let on about. In the movie that says cucking is bad her husband must not know what's going on. If she's never slipped up with him she's not going to get tricked by someone else.
>Acting like it's reasonable to assume she might be withholding something like being married and he should have probed harder on that, or believing some other guy who didn't have his character faults would have thought to do so is positively deranged.
I don't think it's reasonable but it explains why he didn't know anything about her. I'm not saying he should've probed harder, I'm saying he just didn't care to.
>Any man who hooked up with her on the road and made the mistake of developing feelings later on was going to meet the same fate.
Yes, hooking up with people on the road isn't a good way to form meaningful connections but it's the only option you have if you've chosen to devote your life to having no close connections and flying across the country to constantly avoid people.
>So he did change. Maybe he thought she did or could have too.
I never said he didn't change, it's just that by the time he realised what he wanted he was locked into wanting it with someone who had a life and didn't want him part of it.
>If she got married or even just started seriously dating some other guy _after_ she met him this might matter and have something to say about him as a person but
All it says is he's disposable to her and he's like that because of how he's chosen to live his life.
>is a pretty disingenuous way of explaining why he ends up alone.
Not really, he's ended up alone due to a lifetime of choices.
>Of course he's not needed in the life she never let on about.
And the life he never cared to know about. You don't build that life with someone that avoids commitment and relationships.
>In the movie that says cucking is bad her husband must not know what's going on.
He clearly doesn't because she's pissed at him for showing up on her doorstop and almost giving it away.
>by the time he realised what he wanted he was locked into wanting it with someone who had a life and didn't want him part of it.
No he was locked into wanting it with someone who had a life just like his who he thought he could make it work with because of their shared experiences.
>but-
No, the point is if she wasn't married, which to him she wasn't and should never have been expected to be, it was a completely reasonable thing to assume a more serious relationship between the two of them at least had a chance. Nothing about who he was before meeting her is why he missed the one reason they could never be together. She being herself is why he "missed" it.
My toxic trait is losing sleep when people are wrong on the Internet.
Does her husband travel for work? He's clearly limited himself to deceptive women too. What did he do wrong to deserve her?
life can be heavy, or it can be light.
what's in your backpack?
What are some other good comedy-dramas like this?
Sideways
I love all of these already. I need more.
I love Tuesdays with Stories but Joe List can not act
The Graduate, Jerry Maguire, Adaptation, The Station Agent, Punch Drunk Love
As Good As It Gets
Something's Gotta Give
Alexander Payne does great dramedies: Sideways, The Descendants, Election, Nebraska. Haven't seen Holdovers yet but general consensus is positive.
dont trust women. ever. you are alone. be OK with it.
women have high standards in their 20s that they regret later in life
I guess it's up in the air as to what it's trying to say
I'm not so sure there was a message more of an adventure through someone's depressing life.
Was this really Vera? Could be since she's shown herself off nude enough and she has a great body but this just looks a bit better than her other nude scenes.
Body double, Vera was pregnant during filming.
Lucky dude.
Reitman Take corporate logic and applies it to logic end point.
It’s the same logic in fight club, as you will recall, when a car has a defect that reliably kills people when it is triggered. If the cost of the recall is more than the cost of all suspected lawsuits, the recall is not done. The lost lifes does not enter into the discussion
What the movie is trying to say is you live in a simulacrum reality/morality created by the forces of corporate life, that once created, are now beyond the controls of even the executive actors of the corporations thenselfs. There is no sense to any of it
Not what I was saying at all. If you're the kind of guy who avoids connections then a deceptive woman is probably all you're limited to. Or post-wall women in bars.