I hate the idea of Peter working with the Defenders against Fisk because this canonically is how easily Peter can beat Kingpin.
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I hate the idea of Peter working with the Defenders against Fisk because this canonically is how easily Peter can beat Kingpin.
>muh power levels
You're boring AND annoying, OP.
Kingpin isn't the kind of villain you can normally just walk up to and fight, no matter how powerful you are.
Except Back in Black was the best non-Ultimate Spidey story of the 21st century.
Also yes, power levels absolutely should matter.
>the best non-Ultimate Spidey story of the 21st century.
lol no
Not even top five
Seeing as you two are on the subject of PLs. Why isn't Peter mostly bulletproof. He fights and trade blows with people who hit harder than bullets and punch and kick clear through skyscraper walls? A bullet at best should very lightly bruse him or just sting.
doylist reason: it gives a clear delineation in power between him and a true bruiser like the thing
spider-man is forced to dodge and weave, the thing can just sit there and take it
watsonian reason: even with super-toughness he is still made of flesh and bone
so while he is good at taking a lot of energy spread out over a wide area like a punch from a superpowered villain, he is only slightly better at taking bullets compared to a placebo
bullets are much, much faster than even a punch from a thing and concentrated into a smaller surface area
its just a different sort of impact altogether to even super-strength punches, which have a lot of energy behind them but still have to distribute their energy over a wide area and with less velocity
Thanks for the answer. I honestly didn't expect that, considering how some anons can be.
>bullets are much, much faster than even a punch from a thing and concentrated into a smaller surface area
pretty much
think about the difference between a punch and a stab wound from the same arm; the force is concentrated into the point/blade of the knife and that's why it breaks the skin, even before you get to the kind of energy involved in a bullet strike
yeah but a) Spidey no longer has the organic webbing so he can't "imma cum down your throat until you die brah" any more, Fisk is smart enough to crush the mechanical webshooters with his pure brawn and b) he only did that in rage because Aunt May was dying, and he was only able to get that close because Fisk was already in prison and not surrounded by his costume goon squad
there's an escalation of power levels to consider, not just relative power levels, and ultimately with Spidey in particular you've got two things working against your desire for him not to work with anybody, which are 1) he's the go-to guy that everybody works with after they're introduced, because his books have always sold, so he's worked with literally everyone from the Transformers to John Belushi, and 2) it's much more satisfying if the Defenders and Spidey accidentally cause escalation, get their asses kicked and have a 'final' battle before everything goes back to business as usual
>e's worked with literally everyone from the Transformers to John Belushi
On that note, the Blues Brothers exist in the marvel universe and they are actual FBI agents.
Maybe they're MIB in disguise. Did actual John Belushi appear at some point?
>Did actual John Belushi appear at some point?
Yes, it was a saturday night live crossover comic with Spider-man.
>Maybe they're MIB in disguise.
They are identified as FBI agents and actually appear in several comics, including strolling up to Avengers HQ or meeting with Jameson in the Daily Bugle. Seems to have been a running joke in Marvel at the time.
Note in case you haven't seen the movie: in the movie (and its sequel), it is a running joke that they get confused with agents.
- Are you the police?
- No ma'am. We're musicians.
So someone at Marvel was fans of the movie and actually used them as FBI agents in the comics.
Gotcha! I love the original movie, but don't remember the joke. Either because it's been a while or because I only watched it dubbed.
Cause if he didn't restrict 99.99% of his power he might kill someone! If he doesn't keep his body spongy his skin might deflect a bullet and strike an innocent bystander! That's why he lets every villain beat him to near death and ruin his life, cause he might kill them!
>Back in Black
You can punch a spider, send it flying across the room, and it can live. Puncture it with a needle and it'll always die.
His muscles are strong enough to resist significant blunt force but piercing or cutting damage is too focused on a single area. In theory he could flex the muscles that are about to be shot really hard to reduce the damage but avoiding them altogether is always a better plan.
Because he's just like Wonder Woman, he went from a quite bit above peak human to strong enough to lift hundreds of tons in several feats over the years.
Technically his muscles should be dense enough to at the very least bounce pistol bullets but dodging everything is a huge part of his style so...
Pete crushed a metal pipe like paper in AF#15. He always had super strength.
Because a punch has all the force distributed across the whole fist while a bullet has all the force focused into a tight small point thereby magnifying the damage it does by as much as the size difference of the area of impact. It's why a knife can stab you clean through your body, even though it only has as much force behind it as a normal human punch which you could withstand.
This is basic fricking physics they teach at school and has been known to humans since antiquity. Let me guess, you are american, right?
but to stay on topic, there was a time where Spidey was taught to use his super reflexes and strength to focus on bullets and literally catch them mid-air. He managed to do it with one bullet, but not the second one, and he got a bullet wound out of it.
You're fricking moronic. Spider-man has eaten punches from the likes of Hulk and Thor. That's far more PSI than any bullet.
>Kingpin isn't the kind of villain you can normally just walk up to and fight
Why do people act like the guy is Lex Luthor but fat when he's constantly jobbing as often as the Penguin.
Kingpin is smart enough to have, not only hired goons, but actual C and D-List super villains guarding him.
And occassionally a B-Lister or two.
Peter can get through all of that solo, but if even one of them gets lucky he could get captured or killed
Working with a team of other heroes means they can storm the castle with an actual plan, they can watch each other's backs, teamwork and all that. And if they get overwhelmed one of them can escape and come back with reinforcement
Fighting Kingpin with a team is never about just ganging up to curbstomp the Fatman 5 on 1. It's just getting to him from behind layers of defenses before he can escape
A wall isn't the kind of thing you can just walk up to and crawl no matter how powerful you are. A web isn't something you can shoot no matter how powerful you are.
>Kingpin isn't the kind of villain you can normally just walk up to and fight, no matter how powerful you are
So are you saying if Thor ever felt like it, he couldn't just crash through the roof and crush Kingpin's head with Mjolnir?
What the frick is Kingpin going to do if Tony Stark just flies through the window of his office and tosses him out said window?
What protection does Kingpin have against Doctor Doom doing a precision orbital strike with some fancy Latverian laser because Kingpin made some off kilter remark about his mask a month prior at some high society diplomatic function and Doom can't let shit go?
There's a reason we rarely see Fisk outside of street level. It's because it wouldn't be hard to fricking annihilate him where he stands for anyone in a bigger league.
Fisk relies heavily on the fact that people like Spider-Man and Daredevil have no issue just entering his office from the damn window when they want to deal with him, but they won't because they need to prove he actually did something first. He knows they won't hurt him just because they can.
All the armed guards and super henchmen and crazy traps exist more for Frank Castle than they do anyone else, because Fisk knows that crazy frick can and WILL murder him if given an inch to do so.
YOU'RE boring and annoying. King Pin is a chump and seeing Peter effortlessly dispatch of him is cathartic.
>Kingpin isn't the kind of villain you can normally just walk up to and fight, no matter how powerful you are.
Why not? He's just a fricking crime boss.
Except Fisk has superhuman strength of his own and has overpowered Spiderman many times
>Except Fisk has superhuman strength of his own and has overpowered Spiderman many times
Spidey holds back as much as possible so as to not accidentally hurt someone. For example, once he fought Wolverine and in the end of the fight he threw a full powered punch to beat him down. But it was actually Wolvie's spy girlfriend sneaking up on him, not Wolverine himself. So she got hit in the head with Spidey going full strength and she died on the spot.
If Pete just went nuts against everyone he fights, he'd be popping heads off left and right.
As for Kingpin, Spidey literally b***h slapped him to near death and then Fisk had to crawl back to his bunk. In front of an audience.
They always point out how scary it is when he's not in a mood for quipping, and they still have no idea.
So peter loses on purpose.
Is he stupid?
no, he just doesn't want to accidentally become a killer. That one time when he killed Wolverine's spy girlfriend, it was chewing him up for months. See:
This happened several times, Spidey wanted to just cave in Kingpins face but Daredevil held him back cause he wanted to take him down legally so he can answer for his crimes. And also because killing him would just mean a new gang war and lots of blood on the streets. He even covered for him once for that reason, wearing a fat suit.
Wasn't it Superior where early on Otto casually punched somebody's jaw off and realized just how much Peter was holding back all those years?
I wouldn't give anything in Superior any weight, Slott constantly just wrote whatever nonsense came to mind in order to make his concept work and pump it full of wank, consistency be damned. That's also a moment with Gargan, who gets a constant dice roll over whether the writer actually acknowledges that he's supposed to be monstrously strong, suit or not, or just be treated like a goober of a goon.
doesn't matter how much weight you give it since it is canon. And Spidey holding back has been stated several times over the decades.
When he is not holding back he is decapitating people, swinging entire trains around, beats Titania unconscious (the same Titania who just beat She-hulk in a 1v1 solo fight), has the entire X-men not being able to lay a hand on him, or beats goddamn Firelord in a fistfight.
>since it is canon
Any garbage writer can suddenly write that Peter has been eating a steady diet of poo for the past 60 years and the next writer can just retcon it to being a bowl of piss if he wanted. Being canon sure doesn't matter to Marvel, so it sure as hell is worthwhile to judge on how internally consistent it is and how it sets up its changes before giving it weight.
>When he is not holding back he is decapitating people, swinging entire trains around
Yeah, but Scorpion could take 'im
Scorpion is stronger than the X-Men
Yeah, but no writer retconned it yet, so it is canon. Cry more.
Actually, I just did. Sorry not sorry. Manuscript has gone off to the publisher, and when it releases after Spidey goes public in 2058, you'll die mad knowing that there's a more internally consistent depiction of both Pete's growing and unrestrained/adrenaline-fueled power relative to his rogue gallery, which simultaneously shows that Gargan was replaced with a LMD for a few years.
Tick tock canon worshippers. ""Enjoy"" your Slott and Wells until then.
The hill some anons choose to die on when they're losing a non-arguement.
Parker was boosted by the Other at the time. Normally Kingpin can give him a decent physical fight.
>guy who is upper physical base human limit can give a good physical fight vs someone who can lift several tons.
Does this look like "base human limit" to you? Almost everyone who is billed as "peak human" is ridiculously super strong in capeshit.
Even the writing is pointing out this is BS. Why NOT just have kingpin be a mutant?
Makes it more special when he puts on the Rhino suit.
>BRING ME MY HORN! THE CITY MUST PAY!
Looks like OP doesn't know.
>Approximately 2% of my body mass is fat. Allow me to show you what 350 pounds of muscle is capable of!
I hate the idea of Heroes for Hire calling themselves the Defenders.
Peter vs Kingpin conflict would be tactical rather than physical, it would be Kingpin manipulating the police, the media, the mafia etc to create hell in Peter's life which is something Peter would need help for. The actual physical beatdown would only come after all of that is settled, even the fight in the OP happened only because they were in prison and Kingpin couldn't use his pawns and connections.
But he did use his connections, that's how he nearly got MJ killed.
But here's the thing, he won't hide, not just because he's too fat to find something to hide behind, but also because he can't resist showing off and trying to flex on the good guys.
And he can't match Spider-Man in a matter of smarts. And he can have half of Spidey's rogues gallery in his pocket, but if shit gets serious, they can't stop him. We're talking about a guy who got cornered and ended up punching out a herald of Galactus.
Kingpin really doesn't want to give him the Matt Murdock special.
Oh hey it's the last real Spider-Man story. One More Day was more like the last nail in coffin so this is it.
ALLOW ME TO SHOW WHAT 350 POUNDS OF FAT CAN DO!
All because of his WEIGHT