I like The Dark Knight as anyone else, but there is still a sub-plot that still grand my gears: what the FRICK was the point of the fake death of Gordon? Felt like as a cheap way to make his surprise rescue of the Bat
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What was the point of lying to the citizens of Gotham about Harvey Dent?
Dent was supposed to represent that change can be made by the book, through legal channels. That Batman would not be needed if the good people of Gotham would stand up for themselves and clean out the corruption. Batman is not a good role model to follow because the average citizen is not a millionaire ninja. But unfortunately the guy who did things “the right way” got half his face burned off and went fricking crazy when his waifu got merced by a clown. You following? So Batman covers it up because the idea of Harvey Dent should still hold true, even if in his particular case he completely failed.
The citizens stood up for themselves at the end by not nuking eachother. Then the ending retcons that perception by implying that people need a villain to not act like lunatics.
If anything, they could've not been buttholes and told the truth about Dent and used him as example of what not to do, since the citizens are so moronic they can't think beyond what the television tells them to do. Then you don't need The Dark Knight at all, and Bruce can keep ignoring his own personal problems and be a millionaire ninja.
Stop trying to think, stop speaking.
I'm not speaking, I'm typing.
I agree with the other guy that tying things up with dent being right was a reason but another reason why batman wanted to do it was that he wanted out. the second movie is his fault, it's an escalation of what he started in the first movie. You bring a freak hero, a freak villain will show up. Doesn't matter how moronic that sounds, he still feels responsible and wanted to tie things up cleanly and disappear. dent showing up was perfect.
So an entire society (lul) of freaks are going to show up to counter the freak hero that represents the citizens?
Oh wait, that's literally TDKR, except with much worse editing.
Nolan is a genius after all.
Are you really only capable of thinking linearly you homosexual? The movie has many lines that culminates to the climax. There's the joker who's an escalation of the batman, there's also bruce's personal shit which he still things that he can be with rachel, and then there's the morality dilema with thew whole vigilantism le bad thing. the society going crazy is just joker's autism and the people beat him on that front. The movie is more about the batman's and bruce's internal dilemma but you're too braindead to even recognize that.
Why are you talking to a braindead homosexual? Go talk with your friends, anon.
That's dumb as hell. As if the "good people of Gotham" would give a shit about breaking a couple eggs. They had insano gas sprayed around the city at one point. At that point I'd be like, okay just pull a judge Dredd and execute criminals on the spot.
>executing criminals
No fricking shit, but then there wouldn't be a DeEp AnD bRoOdInG hErO
comics are for (man)children and morons
If Harvey Dent was revealed as a lunatic mass murderer who was kidnapping and murdering suspects, literally every conviction he ever made in his entire life could potentially be thrown out and the entire RICO case against the mob would collapse.
His last days rampage can easily be explained by all the traumas he had (Rachel death, third degree burns in the brain, Joker admitting he brainwashed him).
As Batman said, the true Dent died the night Rachel died. No reasons to reject the good lifelong work of a good man just because he went schizo in last two days for reasons outside him
Dent was already a ticking time bomb before Rachel died. Remember when he kidnapped that dude after the assassination attempt on the mayor and staged a mock execution to get information out of him?
That alone would have ended Dent's career and basically freed everyone he locked up as DA.
And i agree that scene ruins the entire concept of Dent as the "perfect white knight manipulated into becoming a bad guy by an unpredictable new element (joker) and by the mistakes himself and his Friends made".
That scene should had been cut really.
the movie is too deep for you, stick to the mcu kiddo
>Point blatant internal contradictions within a movie i still love anyway
>"LMAO td4y, go watch Marvelshit"
have a nice day, waste of oxygen.
But it's more psychologically realistic that he was already frustrated despite his white knight exterior, hence the name Twoface.
And if that scene didn't exist you'd be complaining that his transformation came out of nowhere instead.
So blame the Joker? He was killing everyone anyway.
This right here. It would have been so easy and the public would have believed it.
He killed him from the other side of the city after getting arrested?
If they're gonna flagrantly break the law like that they might as well just kill Joker. Part of the point was that Batman and Gordon wanted to reinspire faith in Law an Order, and even if nobody found out it would make them hypocrites. Of course it all gets thrown out the window anyways when Batman fricking carpet bombs Talia like he's the Punisher.
>If they're gonna flagrantly break the law like that they might as well just kill Joker.
They're breaking the law by having Batman take the fall for the crimes.
>If Harvey Dent was revealed as a lunatic mass murderer who was kidnapping and murdering suspects, literally every conviction he ever made in his entire life could potentially be thrown out
Wrong.
take the batman into custody.i am the batman
He didn't want the Jokah going after his family
Why he would? In his previous homicides, Joker went straight for his targets, not they relatives. He only tried to harm Rachel, but only to force Harvey to shows uo
This too. Joker said he would go after families to get Harvey to come out, but the idea of him going after Gordon's family for saving the mayor doesn't make sense. Wouldn't he just keep going for the Mayor?
Joker doesn't follow a straight line, which is the point: he escalates and responds the same way Batman does. Joker first offered to 'kill the Batman', pointing out to the mob that whatever they did, Batman would be the problem. He was right and Batman got their accountant back from HK. Now it wasn't as simple as 'kill the Batman' because if Joker did just that, the RICO case could still proceed. It now needed all players in the case to die: the judge, the existing commissioner, Dent and his cooperative star witness. Joker has goons take out the first two but personally involves himself with getting Dent. He encounters Batman for the first time and witnesses that Batman will leave a whole room defenceless to save one person; Rachel. Suspecting Dent is Batman, Joker knows if this is revealed then Dent is discredited and his co-conspirators exposed, including Gordon. Knowing Batman doesn't appear in daylight, he reveals his intent to kill the mayor(an irrelevant but highly-visible target) to put pressure on Dent/Batman, whilst also making a threat to Rachel through Shif's name-tag. It works and an outraged public demands Batman publicly unmasks, though not before Shif has seen both Batman and Dent together after Dent kidnaps him(off-screen he will demand his phone call in custody and use it to tell Joker). Dent takes the fall but Joker has already realised his initial suspicion was wrong and Batman is someone else; someone more morally questionable and like himself, but conflicted and not prepared to actually sacrifice someone willingly. Believing Gordon is dead, Joker can only leverage Dent, Rachel and Batman. Joker no longer cares about the mob at this point, but needs to lure them with their money, so he needs the accountant from GCPD and he needs to do it before a corrupt cop working for Maroni offs him(which is likely now Gordon is 'dead'). Going after Dent is a decoy so Rachel can be kidnapped and not noticed missing for hours.
cont: Joker expects that even if he kills Dent during the pursuit, Batman will catch him and he hopes Bats will go OTT. Joker has realised Batman's one-rule, but also that it has cracks that can be further damaged: Batman won't kill, but strategically will let some die who he could save. Now Joker knew Dent wasn't Batman: whoever was would knowingly risk Dent to save Rachel, but not to save himself. But although Batman is his biggest risk(and opportunity, as he is trying to create new psycho-villains), Joker's enemy at this point is the mob and that might even have been his idea from the start as they were his first targets when he robbed their bank. What Joker has not factored in is the topic of this thread: Gordon's alive. It means that Gordon's family can't be used against Gordon(cos he's 'dead') but also that Gordon can't be used against Batman, Dent, Rachel or the mob. The whole point of Joker visiting the mob at their meeting wasn't to get them to agree to 'kill the Batman', but to humiliate them and feel them out, and tempt them with a bad deal they would have to be desperate to take. With Gordon gone and Dent and Batman discredited, the only leverage Joker has on the mob is their money; he wants the accountant from GCPD. If he manages to kill Dent or Bats in the chase, either of them would get him inside. So he plans for that but it works better than expected; Gordon being alive guarantees that the accountant is safe, and Gordon will leave with Batman when they go rescue Dent and Rachel. Dent knows he was handed over to Joker's crew by a Maroni cop, and Joker later tells him another Maroni cop got Rachel too. If Dent had died in the earlier chase, Rachel could still be used to lure them out of GCPD, but as he hadn't then it was also arranged for him to be taken. The twist comes when Joker gives up the addresses, but they are switched: Batman believes he's going for Rachel. No matter which he chose though, whoever he most wanted to save would die
very very much of the movie falls apart conceptually if you analyze it
same with most movies. Do not be a homosexual and just enjoy a film bro.
>I am very intelligent!
You really, really aren't
I think it was insinuating that The Joker had people inside the police department
>police think he’s dead —> Joker thinks he’s dead
>much beloved and heroic public servant is severely maimed and his fiance is murdered and he suffers a violently psychotic episode as a result
>keep it a secret to preserve his reputation and save Gotham city from the corruption and crime that has been tormenting it for decades
>YA HANDS LOOK PLENTY DIRTY TA ME COMMISSIONER!!!!!
Why the hell is Gordon supposed to feel ashamed for keeping Harvey's end-of-life insanity a secret. The dude's brain had third-degree burns for fricks sake. Deliberately dragging him through the muck because of it would be the shameful thing.
he literally says it seconds after this scene ya idiot
>"I couldn't risk my family's safety."
Yeah just frick everybody else's families
not my problem
you midwits are reading too much into it. i literally quoted the movie as to why the character faked his death. waste of time, jesus christ.
>you midwits are reading too much into it.
You're not reading enough into it. As proven, it was poor writing that doesn't make any sense.
this isn't 9th grade AP English, ya fricking nerd. it's a fricking Christopher Nolan movie.
Even a capeshit movie should make sense and not have it's characters making moronic decisions. You're the reason why the MCU is so well loved. Fricking homosexual.
>MCU
there it is. you're literally defending capeshit, you zero self-awareness moron
L O L
>you're literally defending capeshit
Show me where I did that, moron.
You're the one who saying "herr derr it's a Nolan movie, just ignore the stupidity!". Kys zoomie
>characters can’t do dumb shit
moron.
Gordon is supposed to be smart. And wouldn't the Mayors family be put into protective custody? So why wasn't Gordon's family as well? The entire sequence makes zero sense. Even the fellow cops would have told Gordon what a dumb idea it was.
He’s supposed to be obviously overmatched so Batman is necessary. No point in putting a dead man’s family in protective custody.
>No point in putting a dead man’s family in protective custody.
But why fake his death if the family COULD be put into protective custody? You know, like the Mayor's family most likely was... And wouldn't it make more sense for the Mayor to fake his death because if he's still alive the Joker will try again, right?
And the movie establishes that the Joker has people everywhere, so what are the odds of this "Gordon isn't dead" scheme lasting very long?
>the guy who can smuggle an aquarium worth of gas onto a ferry with no one noticing and flip whatever officers he needs to would be stumped by protective custody agents
mhmm
>>the guy who can smuggle an aquarium worth of gas onto a ferry with no one noticing and flip whatever officers he needs to would be stumped by protective custody agents
So shouldn't the Mayor have faked his own death as well if his family (which was 100% likely in protective custody) wasn't safe in that protective custody?
And if Joker is this kind of "can do anything" villain wouldn't he get the info that Gordon isn't dead rather quickly?
You’d have to ask the mayor anon.
>And if Joker is this kind of "can do anything" villain wouldn't he get the info that Gordon isn't dead rather quickly?
No.
>You’d have to ask the mayor anon.
I don't have to. I know that the entire sequence doesn't make any sense based on what I laid out. This is how it should have gone down with any sense of logic
>Gordon: "Mr. Mayor I'm worried about my family. Please put them with your family and keep them all together in protective custody until this is all over"
>Mayor: "Ok"
That's it. Faking deaths is fricking dumb.
>No.
Ok moron. So Joker can do anything, has a bunch of crooked cops in his pocket, can get gasoline into hospitals and ferry's but the news that Gordon is secretly alive wouldn't get to him?
Humans don’t always act logically. And not every person has the same sense of logic. The mayor and Gordon may have different concerns and perceptions of safety.
>So Joker can do anything
Your words. Not mine.
>Humans don’t always act logically.
? Gordon is supposed to be a smart character. And it's one thing to make an illogical decision in the moment. But they must have gotten Gordon in the ambulance, taken him to the hospital, and then at some point in all this he said "I should fake my own death". That's not in the moment, too much time has passed. And someone around him would have pointed out how it makes no sense and that Gordon's family would be safe in protective custody with the Mayor's family.
>The mayor and Gordon may have different concerns and perceptions of safety.
You're moronic. So Gordon would say to the Mayor "I appreciate the offer to put my family with your Mr. Mayor but I think I will fake my own death instead". The Mayor would have thought he was insane and NOT have given him the commissioner job.
>Your words. Not mine.
The movie made this pretty clear. Not much he couldn't do when he put his mind/resources to it.
Smart people don’t always act logically. You don’t seem to have a great grasp of human nature. I would recommend some psychology books. Influence by Cialdini and The Power of Habit by Duhigg are good starting points.
>The Mayor would have thought he was insane and NOT have given him the commissioner job.
Not necessarily.
>The movie made this pretty clear. Not much he couldn't do when he put his mind/resources to it.
Not at all. There were quite a few obvious limits on the Joker’s knowledge.
>Smart people don’t always act logically.
I agree. But in this case too much time had passed and Gordon's cooler head would have prevailed. It's shit writing and makes Gordon look like a baffoon. And there's no way the Mayor would offer him the commissioner job after Gordon pretty much saying "I don't trust the cops to protect my family so I will fake my death". The Mayor probably would have put him on psychiatric leave.
>Not necessarily.
Ok moron. "Yes Mr. Mayor you heard right, I want to fake my own death because my family isn't safe under the same protective custody your family has".
>There were quite a few obvious limits on the Joker’s knowledge.
Sure, but it never stopped him from getting what he wanted.
>But in this case too much time had passed and Gordon's cooler head would have prevailed. It's shit writing and makes Gordon look like a baffoon. And there's no way the Mayor would offer him the commissioner job after Gordon pretty much saying "I don't trust the cops to protect my family so I will fake my death". The Mayor probably would have put him on psychiatric leave.
Not really. If you think smart people act logically, even with sufficient time to think, you should really study psychology more.
>"Yes Mr. Mayor you heard right, I want to fake my own death because my family isn't safe under the same protective custody your family has".
How do you know he spoke to the mayor? The characters not thinking like you is not a plot hole.
>Sure, but it never stopped him from getting what he wanted.
Untrue.
>Not really. If you think smart people act logically, even with sufficient time to think, you should really study psychology more.
Whatever bro. You sound just as insane and Nolan and it makes you and Gordon look like morons. You are just a fanboy that will defend anything.
>How do you know he spoke to the mayor? The characters not thinking like you is not a plot hole.
The Mayor would think Gordon was nuts and he certainly wouldn't have given him the commissioner job.
>Untrue.
Be specific.
>Whatever bro. You sound just as insane and Nolan and it makes you and Gordon look like morons. You are just a fanboy that will defend anything.
I hate Nolan and capeshit, which is why I defend the one time both of them actually got it right.
>The Mayor would think Gordon was nuts and he certainly wouldn't have given him the commissioner job.
You mean you would think that if you were the mayor. This is not the same thing.
>Be specific.
The film ends with him getting arrested. Did you even watch it?
>I hate Nolan and capeshit, which is why I defend the one time both of them actually got it right.
But they didn't. This entire fake death sequence is moronic and your only answer is "smart characters are illogical" but there are zero consequences to this illogical shit (like Gordon not being given the commissioner job).
>You mean you would think that if you were the mayor. This is not the same thing.
The Mayor was a logical guy. If one of his lieutenants faked his death for dumb reasons he would raise an eyebrow over it as least.
>The film ends with him getting arrested. Did you even watch it?
Joker was arrested? He was left hanging. We didn't see him in handcuffs.,
Anon, characters don’t always do what you believe to be logical or what you would do in their circumstances. I won’t rephrase this sentence for you again.
>Joker was arrested? He was left hanging. We didn't see him in handcuffs.,
Why do you need to see handcuffs? Was the swat team approaching him not enough? Or did you miss the swat team? If you’re his bad at paying attention / context clues that would explain your opinions.
>Anon, characters don’t always do what you believe to be logical or what you would do in their circumstances.
But there would be pushback from other characters. The mayor or a police captain above Gordon could have said "You're not doing that Lieutenant".
>Why do you need to see handcuffs?
Because Joker is tough to catch, that's been established.
>Or did you miss the swat team?
We didn't see it, so it's not 100%. That's how movies work. Oh, but I thought the Joker had insiders all over the place, so logically wouldn't a few of those SWAT members be on Joker's side?
Also how does Joker even have so many henchmen? It's absurd. It's one thing that unhinged criminals will work for him for money, but how does he have so many cops in his gang? It's like he's the head of a vast conspiracy but most people who would be trusted in a position of power like that wouldn't work with a fricking psycho clown. Yes I know dirty cops are a thing IRL but Joker isn't just a mob boss, but a psycopathic terrorist who kills his own henchmen. Are they doing it for ideological reasons? But Joker's ideology is disjointed and nihilistic. It just strains credulity.
>how does he have so many cops in his gang?
Wasn't it like 2 cops?
Joker recruited the escaped schizos from Begins to be in his own gang, the dirty cops worked for the Mob before Joker took over that operation, which is how the Mob found out about the marked bills
Oh, well that actually makes sense.
+1
Not the anon you are replying to but I was wondering the same thing so thanks for answering.
>But there would be pushback from other characters. The mayor or a police captain above Gordon could have said "You're not doing that Lieutenant".
Not necessarily.
>Because Joker is tough to catch, that's been established.
But we never see him again, so it’s implied he was caught with no issues. This is confirmed in later media.
>We didn't see it, so it's not 100%. That's how movies work
It’s actually the opposite of how movies work. Not everything is spoon fed to you. If you need to see handcuffs to know the joker was arrested, this movie may have been too smart for you. And given that it’s capeshit and Nolan that’s embarrassing.
>Not necessarily.
Ok moron. I'm done with you. So nobody above Gordon (who is just a lieutenant at this point) Would say "that's not happening" to him?
>But we never see him again,
The movie ended a few minutes later.
>This is confirmed in later media.
Heath Ledger was dead, so there was no other way to go. But in TDK it was left open ended (though I will admit leaning toward him being caught)
>It’s actually the opposite of how movies work. Not everything is spoon fed to you.
In this case we have a character this has escaped from custody already, has moles and allies everywhere and the Batman had to leave before he was arrested. Typical "villain got away" plot.
>The mayor or a police captain above Gordon could have said "You're not doing that Lieutenant".
But he didn't tell anyone he was doing it?
The Joker used his karate to disable them and make his escape
I think Gordon knew (and the movie made it pretty clear) that Joker knew all this stuff because he had people on the police force that would theoretically know where Gordon's family was hidden. Isn't Batman the only one who knows he faked his death?
>Humans don’t always act logically. And not every person has the same sense of logic. The mayor and Gordon may have different concerns and perceptions of safety.
It just come off as an unbelievable twist for the sake of shocking the audience because in real life the police and the mayor wouldn't go to the trouble of faking a death when finding a safehouse accomplishes the same result with less trouble. It makes the Gotham city government look silly, like how they failed to put police outside the hospitals and Joker just strolls in and out without anyone batting an eye. I know it's capeshit but even for capeshit it feels campy.
In real life Gordon would have shot the Joker and said he feared for his life. It doesn’t have to follow the same rules. The logic doesn’t line up with our world but that doesn’t mean it’s bad.
Well, tastes differ but I think it's kind of silly that the movie has a gritty and dark tone but is actually kind of ridiculous when you examine the character's behaviors. And it's not just that the characters don't follow the same logic as they should irl, it's that they act legitimately dumb. Joker's most baffling feats like setting up all those bombs on the boat, infiltrating the police department despite his huge facial scars, or doing fricking surgery on the mental patient to bomb the police department are accomplished offscreen with no explanation, leading the viewer to assume he's some sort of 4-digit IQ supergenius. In reality though everyone but batman is just a midwit, and even batman doesn't defeat Joker by outsmarting him but just punching a bunch of dogs and beating Joker up. It wasn't a bad movie, but it was totally overrated partly because of Nolan's untimely death. Begins was way better.
I think of it as Breaking Bad. The plot only works if every character is moronic but somehow it comes out very good.
>this isn't 9th grade AP English, ya fricking nerd. it's a fricking Christopher Nolan movie
Yes Christopher Nolan writes below the level of a 14 year old
How did they Plan It? So he knew Joker would had tried to shot the mayor, and instead of stopping him they allowed the man to try so Gordon could take the bullet for him?
And of Batman knew It was fake, why staying above Gordon's house to be lectured by the angry wife?
I liked your post Sir
I think OP is baiting or just a zoomer who watched this on his phone at x4 speed
See
>I couldn't risk Mike Fammalee's safety
Why does Nolan never elaborate on these random characters he shoehorns into the script?
Gordon's selfless, moron. The point is he cares about everyday men like Mike who aren't major characters in the movie - to remind you that this is a real city with real civilians and real consequences outside of just what you see onscreen.
Jess Wujushi wasn't even mentioned in the film, who the hell is this? I've watched it like five times and he was never onscreen.
To OP: there was no point. It was an extremely poorly written sequence that makes no sense.
>why didn't the Mayor also fake his death? Does he not want to protect his family as well?
>since the Mayor didn't fake his death, odds are he is surrounded by body guards and his family is in a very safe location
>so why couldn't they put Gordon's family in the same very safe location as the Mayor's family?
>why would Joker want to kill Gordon and his family anyway if the Mayor was the target? I get Joker has an axe to grind with Gordon for his bravery, but you would think that killing the Mayor would still be priority one (Gordon wasn't Commissioner yet).
>so why couldn't they put Gordon's family in the same very safe location as the Mayor's family?
Chieftain Gordon can not go and hide because if the leader of your police goes to hide you are admitting that everything is fricked.
Imagine if the chief of your countrys military was a worthless israelite troony there would be no morale and everyone would give up it is a bit like that
>Chieftain Gordon can not go and hide because if the leader of your police
No he wasn't moron. He was a LIEUTENANT. He wasn't given the Commissioner job until AFTER the death faking scheme was over. Do you zoomers even watch movies or just glance at them when looking at your phones?
why was joker trying to kill Gordon again?
I have not seen this since 2012 haha sorry
He was anti-corruption.
He actually never tried. I dont even think he really cared about Gordon before getting arrested.
Hell, given the two moles of Marioni were direct underlings of Gordon, killing him couldn had made their work as double agents harder (especially because they would had been fired/moved elsewhere by Dent, if not for Gordon's foolish trust over them). No reasons to go after him really
take your meds you wacky bastard
Christopher Nolan comes up with "moments" and then bends over backward writing moronic scenes to get there.
See: the Ferry "Dilemma"
This.
How the frick did joker get something like 50+barrels of gasoline in each boat, with explosives, without the cops finding it? I like how they didn't even bother to check the fricking boats before they left the harbor, then acted totally shocked to find thousands of gallons of kerosine in the hull.
Boats with military guard of prisoners no less
Same with the hospital.
And Joker literally just walks out of the hospital after it exploded. Every hospital in the city would have been surrounded by cops.
TDK is a very overrated movie that has a lot of the same dumbness as TDKR. Begins is still the best of the trilogy (though it has a few problems as well)l.
My bigger grudge is they paint this movie as ultra-realistic Batman. More mature than your granny's Batman, huh? Batman as a premise itself is ultra goofy. Nolan dropped the gothic tones and tried to make a Mann-frankenheimer type action movie which he isn't expert at. Whatever you say, Burton got most of it right.
>Every hospital in the city would have been surrounded by cops.
Which is why Joker declares open season on Coleman Reece. Some of the police are diverted to try stop him from being lynched so that mob rules doesn’t become the de facto state of Gotham. It’s also impossible to defend every hospital in the city which is why they began evacuations and especially why they had Dent evacuated, but the Joker murders the cops protecting Dent.
>every bad guy conveniently has armies of henchmen just waiting to die for them.
So he wouldn't get fricking assassinated????
See
Wtf it was tactical. He got shot, the public thought he was dead. Now he can go do black ops shit on the sly without the Joker knowing. Wtf? Are you people lame? How would the mayor fake his death? Waltz out of the office after being blown up like Gus?
>Wtf it was tactical.
No it wasn't. He literally said "I couldn't risk my families safety." That's it. There was nothing tactical about it. The only "tactical" thing he did was pull Joker off Batman after the truck flip, but anyone could have done that. You are creating headcanon.
>How would the mayor fake his death?
Same way Gordon did. Just put out a press release saying that one of the bullets hit the Mayor and he was killed with Gordon.
Yeah I'm saying it was convenient for Gordon to pull off given the circumstances.
You'd be better off arguing "they should have just blamed the joker for the murderz!1" or the bus scene at the beginning (did joker hire all those busses? if not, why didn't the other busses call 9-1-1? or at the very least some passerby it was a busy street, but the joker was probably planning to be long gone before authorities could even respond, so).
>Yeah I'm saying it was convenient for Gordon to pull off given the circumstances.
No it wasn't. It was an unnecessarily convoluted plot
>Gordon: "Ok, I'm gonna fake my own death to protect my family. Even though Joker has people everywhere and the info will probably get out"
>Mayor: "OR, you can put your family with my family in protective custody. Because if you fake your death, I will have to fake mine."
The mayor got fricking killed idk what you're talking about.
>The mayor got fricking killed idk what you're talking about.
No he wasn't moron. The Mayor died in TDKR in the stadium explosion. The Mayor survives TDK and says "Now you take the big job, Commissioner Gordon!".
Watch the film, zoomie.
Gordon didn't add much of anything to the movies
Protective custody would not work - did none of you window lickers catch the scene where the federal judge was assassinated? The only way to make the Joker “think” that Gordon’s family was of no use to his plan was to make him believe that Gordon had died.
>Protective custody would not work - did none of you window lickers catch the scene where the federal judge was assassinated?
So you don't think the Mayor put his family in protective custody? The Mayor was still walking around out in the open for the rest of the movie after his assassination attempt.
>The only way to make the Joker “think” that Gordon’s family was of no use to his plan was to make him believe that Gordon had died.
Based on this logic the Mayor should have faked his death as well to protect his family.
Why didn't HE shoot Joker?
Cause that'd be too smart.
He's more use to us alive.
Can't rape the dead.
Joker isn't black
Why did this football player just stop running when there was a fricking massive explosion behind him? Surely he would've heard it.
My question is why was the stadium so empty? Is the Gotham football team that shitty?
You play til the whistle.
Reading this thread makes me think it's a pretty moronic movie overall. I don't think it's bad but how did it get away with being taken so seriously when other capeshit failed?
You weren't allowed to criticize it at the time because Heath Ledger died right after filming.
It has stupid shit that morons think are profound
>"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
>Batman's moronic no kill policy "otherwise I'd be just as bad as the others"
The Dark Knight is a moronic series full of absolutes that the movies was railroaded into holding true.
>how did it get away with being taken so seriousl
It came out in the year following such superhero movies as Spider-Man 3, Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer, and Ghost Rider
Excellent actors really.
Also not exactly a plothole, but DK Gotham seems a different city from BB ones. From the light to the general aesthetics at least.
Between the monorail and Arkham Isle BB Gotham seems like a modern city with some outdated infrastructures that maked It very peculiar. DK Gotham's seems just New York
Serious question, what does Nolan's Joker do in his free time? He's not insane like he'd be jerking off in his own feces or yelling at demons. He's methodical. So does he live in a big house or something? Does he sleep at all? Does he kidnap tailors to make him suits?
This can be asked of almost every villain in media. We only see their crazy sides. Joker sleeps, eats, shits, pisses, probably has some hobby (torturing animals? practicing shooting guns, pyro shit)
planning requires great time and patience.
it can be argued that Nolan's joker isn't insane at all because one of the defining traits of psychopaths is poor impulse control.
being able to play games in games is not poor impulse control, it's perfect impulse control.
more than likely the entire thing is just a stage appearance. he is a completely normal guy outside the costume and only acts crazy in the costume.
sociopaths can be methodical, but sociopaths rarely have psychotic outburst and are more prone to the finer luxuries. a decent number of serial killers are just sociopaths, normal people who just don't care about others.
Yeah I think this Joker is like Hannibal Lecter, except less campy and gay and more physical
I think Batman and all the villains are demigods, and only Brayne doesn't know that they are.
He also piss off when people call him "a monster". A true sociopath will likely just not care.
I was just about to say this about the penguin in returns
He's a plot device, so he ceases to exist when not on screen. A truly realistic Joker would be more like Keyser Soze, a legendary person only ever spoken about in the third person.
All you morons are moronic.
With Gordon faking his death he essentially turns the city upside down and forces the Joker to come out of hiding.
With him dead, Gotham fell into deeper chaos as he was one of the only ones gatekeeping corruption from within the MCU and Police letting Joker take over.
Also, this pushed Batman over the edge and the rest of the city, putting the blame on him for his death, leading to a major plot point of the movie to begin with, Harvey needing to be the (actual) face of Gotham without needing a mask.
>With Gordon faking his death he essentially turns the city upside down and forces the Joker to come out of hiding.
No it doesn't? Why would the death of a Lieutenant force the Joker to come out of hiding. It was Harvey Dent saying "I'm the Batman" that brought him out of hiding.
>With him dead, Gotham fell into deeper chaos
No it didn't, moron. The Commissioner was killed and an assassination attempt was made on the Mayor. If the city fell into chaos it would be for those reasons. Not a lieutenant dying.
>headcanon
Bro, just stop.
>gordon dies
>city turns on batman
>literally one of 4 guys fighting corruption on a high level
dumb ass
Yeah and why did Harvey have to do that? Because everyone was mad at Batman for letting this happen in the first place dumb ass you just proved mu point in being moronic.
>Because everyone was mad at Batman for letting this happen in the first place dumb ass you just proved mu point in being moronic.
It has NOTHING to do with Gordon though, moron. Gordon could have not faked his death and they would still be upset with Batman. And they weren't "upset" with Batman. They just didn't want Joker doing any more violence and wanted Batman to reveal himself to make it stop.
Gordon faking his death makes Bruce want to give up being Batman in the first place idiot.
>no one upset with batman
>they just want him to reveal himself to make it stop
Pick one and only one.
>Gordon faking his death makes Bruce want to give up being Batman in the first place idiot.
Wrong moron. He was talking about giving up the Batman before Gordon faked his death.
>>no one upset with batman
They weren't. They wanted him to reveal his identity to get JOker to stop the violence.
just stop dude, you've contradicted yourself enough
>just stop dude, you've contradicted yourself enough
Explain in detail how I'm contracting myself. I await your silence.
>talked about it before
>didn't do it until he thought gordon died
HMMMMMMM...
Gordon's death had nothing to do with him giving up Batman. It was already in his head, and Joker winning the battles, and the public outry for Batman to reveal himself to stop the violence is why Bruce was going to reveal himself.
>>They weren't. They wanted him to reveal his identity to get JOker to stop the violence.
>"no more dead cops!"
>"you'd rather protect an outlaw vigilante than the lives of citizens?"
>"things are worse than ever!"
>>"no more dead cops!"
Yeah, that's the VIOLENCE part that I mentioned that the public wanted topped.
>>"you'd rather protect an outlaw vigilante than the lives of citizens?"
Again, the issue was WHO the Batman was. Joker wanted him to unmask and he did that by saying "there will be more deaths if Batman doesn't unmask" hence the public saying "why are you protecting this vigilante?, just unmask him"
>>"things are worse than ever!"
Again, that's the VIOLENCE part and was Jokers plan
it's suggested you watch the movie before posting here
>it's suggested you watch the movie before posting here
Explain where I'm wrong in detail. I await your silence.
>tfw
Gordon was a nobody before arresting Joker. He was a mere Liutenant that (secretly) had the special task of being the police intermediary with Batman. An important role, but kept secret because officially the police was trying to arrest him.
yeah these nolan movies are moronic did nobody tell him that gary oldman is the commissioner and not some Black person?
guy just doesnt give a frick when making movies
>gary oldman is the commissioner
He's not the commissioner until after the death fakeout.
At this point in the movie they figured out the Joker sets up these games and always breaks the rules because of his anarchist LARP. Gordon realized they couldn't catch the Joker if they played it by the book anymore.
>Gordon realized they couldn't catch the Joker if they played it by the book anymore.
Headcanon. Gordon said he did it to protect his family. And how did Gordon faking his death help catch Joker?
>Inferring that they were having a hard time trying to catch Joker by the old ways is headcanon.
Based autist.
that they were having a hard time trying to catch Joker by the old ways is headcanon.
The heacanon is that you are saying that Gordon faked his death to catch the Joker...when in reality he said he faked his death to protect his family.
I repeat: so he choose to allow Joker to try shoot the Mayor, so he could do his little act? Isnt that foolish?
the Mayor was crooked. Did you not watch the movie? If you're planning a top secret op like faking a death to bait the joker out of hiding, you don't cut the crooked mayor in on it
>the Mayor was crooked.
No he wasn't. If he was crooked he wouldn't still be Mayor in TDKR
>ITT: morons who don't realise the entire thing was a dream
It's like the entire point of the spinning top scene
OP my sub plot hole is that why did not batman get the joker on a train that will crash but then jump off at the last minute so that he is no a killer like what he did with rascal ghoul
Batman can kill people, like when he chased Talia down in his apache helicopter through the streets of Gotham then gunned her down with his Waynetech hellfire missiles like an arabic dog.
But if the villain wants Batman to kill him, then his rule is he must save them from death no matter what
>like when he chased Talia down in his apache helicopter through the streets of Gotham then gunned her down with his Waynetech hellfire missiles like an arabic dog.
fricking lmao
I do not remember this part just catwoman firing guns at bane. batman probably winked at her or told her before the fight to do this so that he does not have to
exactly he could have fired a batrope at his legs and dragged him off
lmao as a kid I thought in the third movie when he said "I am immortal" he really was. That would have been quite good.
?t=59
It's fricking hilarious he goes from "must save the clown who killed everyone I love" to just nonchalantly going Fortunate Son on Talia in her sad little food-delivery truck
fricking lmao he does gun her down like an arabic dog
the henchman as well
incinerated and neck broke from that fall
Batman didn't kill her, his napalm-filled missiles killed her
Well, her surname is indeed arabic. Must have awoke the burger instinct of bombing the frick out of any sandnig that could oppose their kosher masters in the Holy Land
She's just sleeping.
It's funnier when you remember Bruce fricked this woman on a bearskin rug like 30 mins earlier in the movie, then doesn't even bother sticking around to watch her die after he shrapnels her to death from his magic scifi death helicopter
fricking kek he must wipe out the Ras Alghoul bloodline
He kill only where he absolutely have no choices (usually involving the death of innocents if he dosent kill the bad guy. So Dent and Calia's special cases are fine)
Meme aside, he could use that bullshit justification for when he trow joker from the building
>"Uh, actually, gravity is going to kill you, not me. I'm not gonna kill you, but aint gonna save your from gravity either"
Instead he saves him. Why not saving Ras too at this point?
Because Joker is his long lost older brother
Rascal Ghoul was basically the closest thing to a powerful supernatural threat in the trilogy. Superheroes can kill aliens, vampires, robots, demigods, etc because they're not human.
Maybe it's because they were planning to have Ledger reprise his role in TDKR, but I felt like Joker's motivations weren't really fleshed out in TDK. It's not always important for me to know the villain's motivations, but TDK Joker does have a habit of going on pseudophilosophical monologues so it does seem like he had a message. Maybe I'm just a brainlet, but it seems like he was written both as someone who 'just wants to watch the world burn' and as someone who had ideological reasons, but it comes out as confused.
It's the same as in the comics:
"I hate the world and want to watch the world burn"
>Enter Batman
>"REEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY YOU NO KILL PEOPLE WHY YOU A GOOD PERSON CAN'T YOU SEE LIFE IS A JOKE I'LL FRICKING FORCE YOU TO KILL ME SO YOU CAN SEE WE'RE JUST THE SAME"
My headcanon Is that he just wanted to Watch the world burn initially, as Alfred pointed out. But after discovering fighting Batman and trolling Dent was hillarious, he decided to prove the world his "philosohy" of total nihilism was the right one. They accidentality inspired him to actually have a purpose and a goal in his life.
>"You fullfill ME" as he said to Batman
He says "you complete ME". Which means Joker has seen the hit Tom Cruise movie "Jerry MacGuire"
top kek
very nice very nice he liked the performance of cuba gooding junior
Yea, but my point still stand. He was a nihilistic that found a purpose by meeting someone he tought he was his "opposite, but at the same time kinda soulmate"
>I like The Dark Knight as anyone else
I unironically think that The Dark Knight sucks. Heath Ledger's performance is great but overall the movie is midwit bait with a nonsense comic book plot that clashes gratingly with the movie's attempt to have a gritty, realistic tone.
>Two Face walks around with half of his face gone like it's nothing.
This one gets me more than anything. He would have been in so much pain that he would be bed ridden. Unable to talk or even blink. Instead he walks around like it's a minor scratch. If the movie had him constantly injecting himself with pain meds, at least it would have maybe might slightly more sense.
Yeah, they should've stuck to the comic version where he gets burned with chemicals, and have him heal for a few weeks. It really wouldn't have changed much.
TDK is fricking ridiculous. The Joker can get explosives anywhere he wants and has complicated Rube Goldberg plots. Two Face walks around with half of his face gone like it's nothing. It's a silly comic book plot. But the movie has this really serious dreary tone like "look at me, see how gritty and realistic I am?" The dissonance between the ridiculous plot and the pseudo-artistic "serious cinema" tone is striking. I really find it hard to understand why this movie is so beloved.
So hating TDK is the next evolution of Cinemaphile pathological contrarianism?
>So hating TDK is the next evolution of Cinemaphile pathological contrarianism?
It was always a mediocre movie with lots of problems. For the last 10 years it's been able to skate by because of the death of Heath Ledger. TDK is just as stupid as TDKR in a lot of ways, but one didn't have it's main actor die in real life.
I wouldn't say I hate it, but its flaws become more noticable in retrospect. Truly great movies are more enjoyable on a rewatch.
I hated TDK as soon as I saw it, which was years before I started coming to Cinemaphile.
Yup.
Cinemaphile really isn't very contrarian. Most of what people talk about here and praise are extremely popular blockbusters and hot celebrity women.
it was well loved at the time as we just started getting "heckin gritty" capeshit, but in retrospect like most phenomenon its a product of its time and hardly merits a rewatch and is only still "well loved" because no one rewatches it and sees how shit it was, call it the Breaking Bad syndrome cuz on second viewing you see how moronic it really was but it was good at the time
One time The Dark Knight was airing on TV and I didn't really care to watch it, but I wasn't comple opposed to it either, so I put it on, not giving it my full attention, and the only times I found it actually grabbed my attention and made me want to watch it was when the Joker was on screen. The rest of the movie really felt pretty dull. Even now I barely remember it beyond the moments with the Joker.
I used to think this was a good trilogy. But the only one that’s actually decent is bb.
Reasoning: everything ITT
the bar scene with falcone is a legitimately great scene, only one in the trilogy.
Joker tying to blow up both boats when his faustian trick failed was a b***h move, killed any mystique he had.
he fakes his death to keep Joker from going after the wife and daughter. I'm fairly sure this is explicit.
That's all it was. Cheap writing.
Capcha: d 4 s s 0 y