I really want to know if the claims Alan Moore is making here about Grant Morrison is true.
This interview is eight years old and I’m sure it caused a billion threads when it first came out, but I didn’t post on Cinemaphile back then. He certainly makes a strong case
https://slovobooks.wordpress.com/2014/01/09/last-alan-moore-interview/
If you haven’t seen this yet scroll down to “This, I think, leaves us only with the herpes-like persistence of Grant Morrison himself” to see what I’m talking about
Is all this true? Is all this lies? Anyone know anything about it?
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You know what this comic needs?
Rape.
-Alan Moore.
Most "rape" is actually attempted rape.
>Watchmen
Attempted rape of Silk Spectre by The Comedian; possible rape of that one child that was fed to the dogs; Kitty Genovese
>V for Vendetta
Attempted rape of Evey by Fingermen
>Swamp Thing
Swampy is raped in space by a planet; Abby is raped?
>Miracleman
Attempted rape of Johnny Bates (Kid Miracleman); Miraclewoman is raped in her sleep by Gargunza
>The Killing Joke
Speculated rape of Barbara Gordon
>Tom Strong
Tom's seed is stolen by Nazi villainess
>LXG
Attempted rape? of Mina Murray in opium den
>Neonomicon (haven't read)
Fishman rapes woman, but then she likes it
I don't remember if there's any in Promethea, though I know that and LXG have old man/young woman sex. I don't remember any in From Hell, Top Ten, Supreme, A Small Killing, Captain Britain, Halo Jones, Bojeffries Saga, Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow, or any of his short comics.
>Top Ten,
You don't remember the JLA knockoffs?
there is sexual fraud in watchment when dr manhattan uses a double to frick silk spectre II
That one's reaching
Calling that rape sounds like ridiculous bullshit.
Might rather mention the hints that Rorschach was sexually abused as a child, there's actually something to that.
Oh nice, someone's using my list. I appreciate you.
However, you left out the part that mentions the extremely high killcount in Moore's comics. I know it's not entirely related, but it's meant to point out that Moore turns the dial a little further in all things.
It's been a long time.
I'm due for a reread anyway.
>motis
This is the fifth time I've seen it in the last few months.
That's because you don't read comics.
LXG also had Hyde rape Invisible Man to death
I can't believe I left that out. It's one of my favorite parts of the second volume.
Did you forget all the boarding school girls that Invisible Man raped in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
And he almost raped Mina, when they used her as bait.
FUUUUUUCK.
Did Hyde rape too? I gotta read that shit again.
Hyde threaten to rape Mina when she got on his nerves but he came to respect her.
So later when Griffin, the Invisible Man, beat the shit out of Mina and busted her face. Hyde literally raped Griffin to death and then cooked and fed his body to himself and Nemo.
The 90s comics were wild
That thing between Hyde and Mina is great. Volumes I and II were some of my favorites reads, but it's been years.
I will go back and read it again eventually, possibly all the way through Tempest, but there are a few books I want read first.
Don't forget that when Mina got depressed in the really shitty volume that introduced Orlando, she was drugged up in a mental ward and raped by the pervy female descendent of the pervy woman running the school where the Invisible Man was stalking and her orderlies.
In his first appearance, I mean. I know he rapes Griffin.
>Top Ten
In the Smax mini it was shown that Smax and his sister’s mom was raped and they were born out of it
>Here's the updated list:
There's a lot more murder. Moore comics have an extremely high killcount.
Most "rape" is actually attempted rape.
From memory:
>Watchmen
Attempted rape of Silk Spectre by The Comedian; possible rape of that one child that was fed to the dogs; Kitty Genovese
>V for Vendetta
Attempted rape of Evey by Fingermen
>Swamp Thing
Swampy is raped in space by a planet; Abby is raped?
>Miracleman
Attempted rape/Rape of Johnny Bates (Kid Miracleman); Miraclewoman is raped in her sleep by Gargunza
>The Killing Joke
Speculated rape of Barbara Gordon
>Tom Strong
Tom's seed is stolen by Nazi villainess
>LXG
Attempted rape? of Mina Murray in opium den; rape of schoolgirls by the Invisible Man; rape of the Invisible Man by Hyde (to death)
>Top Ten
Justice League expys raped (sex ring); (Smax) Jeff and his sister were born from a rape
>Neonomicon (haven't read)
Fishman rapes woman, but then she likes it
I don't remember if there's any in Promethea, though I know that and LXG have old man/young woman sex. I don't remember any in From Hell, Supreme, A Small Killing, Captain Britain, Halo Jones, Bojeffries Saga, Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow or any of his short comics. Haven't read Neonomicon, Providence, or Lost Girls.
Also, he's saying rape is bad. Or is that too subtle a point for the Moore haters to grasp?
>Rape is bad
>So I'm gonna include it in every work I make.
Lol, this. You'd be hard pressed to find a work by Alan Moore in which someone/something doesn't rape someone else, either phisically, spiritually or aesthetically. A lot of the times the rape victim is moore himself.
Thing
>Swampy is raped in space by a planet; Abby is raped?
Abby unknowingly has sex with her uncle Anton Arcane after Arcane possesses her husband Matt Cable's body. Abby realizes later and has a mental breakdown and feelings of being "unclean" with images of bugs crawling all over her.
Why did we, the audience, need that in the story?
Mongul's savaging of Wonder Woman in FTMWHE has an obvious connotation to it
>Mongul's savaging of Wonder Woman in FTMWHE has an obvious connotation to it
I'm really not seeing it.
He smacks her around a bit, and maybe holds her up by her hair? I don't recall anything sexual about it
no matter how much this is brought up, there is more murder in media than rape, and murder is worse.
your selective outrage is like when puritans are offended by sexual content when they're fine with violence.
P.S.
after that list you made, remember that writing about rape doesn't come close to when women let their rapists reproduce by choosing to have their rapists child, thus rewarding an evil act
it still doesn't come close to the kinds of people who would vote for anti-abortion measures that prevent women from stopping a pregnancy initiated by rapists.
because letting rapists reproduce is probably not how our species should conduct itself. this is why people say "nice guys finish last", because the rapist will take what they want and their DNA is passed on.
>doesn't come close to when women let their rapists reproduce by choosing to have their rapists child, thus rewarding an evil act
I doubt most rapists care whether their victim keeps their kid or not. They probably aren't thinking, "man, I can't wait to see my little guy carry on the family tradition." They plan to skip out either way.
A bonus is a bonus, anon
>writing about rape doesn't come close to when women let their rapists reproduce by choosing to have their rapists child, thus rewarding an evil act
I thought it was their body, their choice wtf. Abortions aren't a walk in the park.
>rape in stories is...
>LE BAD!
you know its make-believe, right?
Who are you talking to?
Autism
Please don’t turn this thread into off-topic garbage
Some of it is easy to confirm, some is harder. I’m veering towards “he is telling the truth” more than he isn’t. Which kinda sucks, I like Grant Morrisons comics, and I don’t want to think of him as a psycho stalker
He's always been a phony just trying to attain the prestige of a punk-rocker since he never had the gall or skill to actually become a punk-rocker.
His stories are more about "trippy concepts" than quality writing. You don't even need to have read the interview to tell how much of a vanity-obsessed weirdo he is.
>Please don’t turn this thread into off-topic garbage
How is it off topic when its literally Alan Moore's motis operandi
Because this thread isn’t about “Alan Moore's motis operandi”
>How is it off topic
because we're specifically talking about Morrison. this is pure deflection, right from the first post.
>you know what this comic needs, attempted murder
>t. Every comic book writer
ironically grant morrison is the origin of the whole "he's obsessed with rape" meme, while at the same time lying about how he'd never written rape in his entire career. but makes sense he's just another fricking scummy hypocrite who can only demean instead of argue the point
>but makes sense he's just another fricking scummy hypocrite who can only demean instead of argue the point
Man, when he's copying Moore he really goes all the way there
1 out of 4 women irl have been raped. If anything, Moore's comics are unrealistically low on rape and media in general makes light of how much rape there is irl.
>1 out of 4 women irl have been raped.
I doubt this.
In the world?
In a specific country?
What made up bullshit statistic did this come from and why does it feel like its from the era of 2013
Probably because it is, one of those bullshit "studies" where catcalling and minor sexual assault(ass slap etc) is thrown in with full blown penetrative rape.
Now, it is still really fricking common though
He referred to things that were printed, so I don't know why you're pretending you can't confirm it on your own.
Check all the evidence he specifically mentioned.
It's possible that it's the truth given that Morrison can be prone to doing things like that
On the other hand, Moore shouldn't throw stones at glass houses
>On the other hand, Moore shouldn't throw stones at glass houses
I don't really get how that applies here?
Didn't you post this thread previously?
I did, it got three responses, one of which was “I love pooping” and another was “herpes is common”
https://desuarchive.org/co/thread/132360026/
Third one was a link to a documentary on bad stuff Moore has done, but not directly relevant to the Morrison feud
I'm pooping right now, and it feels great.
Moore at least points out to actual things that are on record, like Morrison's accusations of plagiarism in that zine he wrote for. Meanwhile you have Morrison and his "Moore sent me a really mean letter threatening to end my career. But like Joseph Smith only I can read it on a secret cave when I'm alone so I can't show it to you and nobody else has seen it."
I didn't even know the two most pretentious pseuds in comics has bad blood with each other.
How is Moore a pseud?
A few things, mostly rumors/probably bullshit:
Moore
>takes over Captain Britain and makes Miracleman
Morrison
>makes Zenith, inspired by Brendan McCarthy's Paradax and Moore's Captain Britain and Miracleman
>also starts telling people that Moore ripped off Superfolks for Miracleman, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, and Watchmen
Moore
>makes Watchmen
Morrison
>spends most of his career attempting a rebuttal in a lot of his comics, most notably and recently in Pax Americana, at some saying "This is Watchmen done right" or something
>constantly talks about how overrated it is and how all of his comics are his "Watchmen"
Moore
>announces he's making a comic about Jack the Ripper for the 100 year anniversary, stating he wants to approach the case "holistically'
Morrison
>Quickly comes up with Bible John: A Forensic Meditation, a Scottish serial killer; also starts telling people that Moore is ripping off Stephen Knight, despite the fact that it's cited as a source
Moore
>plays with the comics form and magic with Promethea
Morrison
>plays with the comics form and magic with Zatanna (Seven Soldiers)
Moore
>writes Superman, puts forth arguments in For the Man Who Has Everything, Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, and Supreme
Morrison
>writes Superman, puts forth rebuttals in All-Star Superman and Superman Beyond 3D (Final Crisis)
Check this page. It probably goes through this list and more a lot better.
https://tractorforklift.wordpress.com/2019/03/26/comics-written-by-alan-moore-then-by-grant-morrison/
I think Morrison's counterpart to Promethea is Invisibles since it's about magic the author uses (Chaos Magic in Morrison's case against Moore's Traditione one)
Absolutely
However, Invisibles came solidly before Promethea, so doesn't neatly fit into anon's headcanon
They both serve as a presentation of their respective magical beliefs, but Zatanna is Morrison trying to one-up Moore/JHWIII's Promethea using a similar magic-comic page gimmick.
Anon with the headcanon here, I agree with that, but the attempt to mimic Promethea with Zatanna, to me, is pretty clear. It could all be bullshit, though.
I know Morrison said a few times of Moore's work something along the lines of "I did already did that with The Invisibles" or " I already did that with Seven Soldiers".
I don't see any resemblance between Zatanna or Promethea. Like, at all
I forever thanks Grant Morrison on how they write Zatanna with great characterizations and for Misty Kilgore
I think Grant Morrison want to take the opposite way, hard to describe seriously
So Morrisons entire career can be defined by him being butt hurt that Moore wouldn't let him start writing on one of his series and that he's spent decades now trying to one up Alan to get his respect
That's pretty sad, imagine if he channeled all that energy into coming up with something original instead of constantly using other peoples characters
> That's pretty sad, imagine if he channeled all that energy into coming up with something original instead of constantly using other peoples characters
Yeah unlike Moore who uses public domain characters or makes legally distinct copies of existing characters.
>That's pretty sad, imagine if he channeled all that energy into coming up with something original instead of constantly using other peoples characters
Everything of note made by Moore in the past 20 years has been him writing fanfic about late 1800s/early 1900s literary characters.
His last big opus was "what if the young girls from famous children's novels got together as adults and fricked?"
Providence was written long after that.
They publish books mostly, but also comics.
I'm kinda there, but only with the stuff from last 40 years.
To this day I don't understand how Oax Americana is a rebuttal of watchmen at all. Thought it was trying too hard
The dog deconstruction subtle jab at Moore was hilarious.
Morrison's been doing that sort of thing since Animal Man.
Yeah I know, I like Morrison better than Moore but I will be the first to admit that his own work is very derivarive of itself.
I prefer Moore, but I kind of like this rivalry. We got some good Morrison comics from it.
Very much agreed.
Two writers who like to challenge the reader
One takes up the other's challenge, while the other very clearly does not want to be challenged
Can someone spoonfeed me, I'm not going to click that link.
Moore's so articulate. Even when he's slagging Morrison and his editor, there's such a beauty to it.
>It may be that in her own almost endearingly clumsy Miranda Hart-like way, Ms. Sneddon is once more only trying to help and that I am once more leaping to unfair and unreasonable assumptions with regard to her motives, but it seems to me that what has quite possibly happened here has nothing whatsoever to do with whatever opinions she professes to hold with regard to feminism or to violence against women. Could it be that having demonstrated her reliability as a journalist and had it found wanting, her mystifying sense of entitlement to a profession within which she is, in my own opinion, transparently incapable of conducting herself properly has been outraged? In her apparently affronted astonishment that if you play what look like unpleasant and self-serving games with people who have trusted you then there may be unforeseen consequences, I think it not unlikely that she has attached herself to our Batman scholar’s very public ostensible disgust at Act of Faith as a particularly slimy way of settling whatever she imagines to be the score
It's not just Morrison, as someone who doesn't know much of this Moore shit my respect for him went up a notch upon seeing him call out shitty outrage-farming sensationalist journalism
morrisson is in several of these toxic spats with other celebrities. moore seems to only be in one with morrisson. seems likely that grant is shit stirring and attention seeking.
>moore seems to only be in one with morrisson.
Man, wait till you find out the truth
This
Moore is in a few spats with several co-creators. Their work with Moore is their cashcow, but because of the problems Moore has had with publishing companies, these comics aren't getting reprinted.
Morrison doesn't seem to have this issue because he's good at bending over.
>but because of the problems Moore has had with publishing companies
Aha hah ha ha no
1963 has no issue with a publishing company, that was a creator-owned comic
I read some Comics Journal thing about 1963 some time ago, and it seemed like the Image guys were fricking it all up.
Why are you laughing?
You didn't read shit. 1963 was a creator-owned title. Image may have fricked up the first run in some way (via Jim lee not actually doing the work he was supposed to), but the rights to the characters and what was published was still owned by the creators. Protip: Image is not the one preventing 1963 from getting reprinted.
There was one from The Comics Journal, but the one I was thinking of was from CBR.
https://www.cbr.com/steve-bissette-part-1-to-1963-and-beyond/
>Finally, understand that while Rick and I were 100% into the "1963" project, as was Jim Valentino, the Image partners weren't. Some quickly took the initiation of the "1963" project as an open door to working with Alan on their respective projects. Again, we didn't realize at the time this also was tied up with their competitive natures: that is, it was Jim Valentino's coup that he got Alan on board via "1963," and the other Image partners wanted a piece of that action, which would also trump Jim Valentino's initial coup. There was apparently more than just a healthy collegiate rivalry involved. Some of it seemed pretty cutthroat from where we sat.
What a clusterfrick.
>Morrison doesn't seem to have this issue because he's good at bending over.
>It's bad to have social skills to keep working at what you like
Cinemaphile poster in a can, everyone.
Meanwhile, Moore has fought every major, minor, indie and upcoming publishing company to the point of not being able to write comics anymore.
>But he doesn't want to write comics anymore
Yeah, he's written the exact amount of 3 novels, that are illustrated by comic book artists mind you
>he wants to make movies
Of which he has made two, b***h all the way about distribution companies and fought them. Oh, he also burn his chance to make movies with a big studio and a real budget but he fought them too
So what does he do now? Comic book adaptations of his movies. Bravo
Yeah like if you have fought fricking everyone, maybe you are the issue.
i dont think anyone will deny that moore has some big problems with working with companies, editors, e.t.c.
but he doesn't seem like the type to peddle falsehoods about some other writer, even if he thinks they are style-biting him. there are hundreds of people style-biting him and he doesn't comment on anyone else.
I'm pretty sure he has.
>Meanwhile, Moore has fought every major, minor, indie and upcoming publishing company to the point of not being able to write comics anymore.
that sounds rather dubious.
Who did he actually fall out with? Marvel, DC and Image? Anyone else?
I think the last comics publisher he worked with was Avatar, and I've heard nothing about a fallout with them
He also published LXG/Nemo through Top Shelf/IDW.
in the OP article he says "Without public fuss, I began to inform publishers of Grant Morrison’s work, starting with Jonathan Cape, that they should neither contact me nor send me any of their merchandise in future."
Jonathan Cape publish books, right? They're not a comic publisher specifically, I think.
Presumably, there's still some comic publishers that Morrison isn't involved with that Moore could work with if he wanted
Avatar kinda went bankrupt and disappeared, so there wasn't a falling out of any sort there. Moore was writing the last title they put out (Cinema Purgatorio)
He's been pretty open and honest about that. It's not like a secret or something
Yup. He was butthurt. He started a carrer out of butthurting and made millions. Not too shabby.
Haha no
I really enjoy both writers works a lot.
Except Morrison's X-men. That just kind of sucks. Dunno if he is more cynical about Marvel or what.
>Except Morrison's X-men. That just kind of sucks.
That's because his philosophy to writing the X-Men has them as a bunch of leather-wearing homosexuals, who specifically AREN'T superheroes.
He wrote this "Morrison's Guide to Writing the X-Men" thing some time ago, and it was storytimed on Cinemaphile at some point a few years ago. He basically outs himself as a phony who cares more about style than quality in it. Somebody ought to post it.
Tbf it’s waaaaay easier to be more cynical about Marvel. That’s why Identity Crisis is almost universally described as DC’s most controversial moment. Meanwhile with Marvel you can go even further than that and many debate just what it is.
marvel tended to give their characters some sort of flaw since the lee era, whereas for DC that type of writing appeared later and had to be retconned in to some characters.
This is very funny bc Moores openly on record regretting it
Why did Moore even do that anyway?
Shut up. Moore worked for, not 'with' but 'FOR', Liefeld.
Case closed, match: Morrison
Something to jerk off to? idk
Moore whined about superhero comics not being for kids anymore. Thus putting his foot in his mouth, swallowing all the way down to the knee, calf and ankle. The foot then traveled, still attached to his leg, through his digestive system and came out of his anus, thus raping him.
The he b***hed about superhero comic books being the demon spawn of the kkk
>t. Butthurt Batman "scholar"
Google Moore superhero comic books and birth of a nation. Also get your fricking gaggot head out.of your fricking butthole, butthole.
Sorry, Batman Scholar
moron: why are you so heckin racist and sexist?
moore:god I hate morrison so much
>Moore has rightfully abandoned comics as the lost cause they are, made a movie nobody cared about and has retired to just do whatever he wants.
>After the wienerup that was Final Crisis and having to babysit Scott Snyder in public, judging from his latest output Morrison's own disillusionment with capeshit seems to have reached the point where he's finally of a similar mind as Morrison but for whatever reason seems to have commitments keeping him working at DC-and has finally just given up on putting his heart into it as of Superman/The Authority
I have no idea OP, but if it is I guess everyone got what they deserved in the end.
If you google: Alan Moore Describes the “Persistence of Grant Morrison” and Morrison Shuts Up About Moore
there is a blogpost that is part of a lengthier series, which tells you everything you need to know about this feud
long story short, morrison was waging a 1 sided feud for about 30 years while moore ignored him, then moore finally bit back.
Hair envy at its finest
My life would be better had I not read a word written by either of these men.
This
I can't go back to little american funnybooks after reading Big Bong Comics they're just so much better