No. Sega will NEVER allow it. That's the big problem. And even if Sega did not own Sonic, Flynn's writing style has always been the villains are monstrous evil bastards who get away with their crimes because the heroes are enablers.
he'll pull the trigger on Eggman if he ever comes close to being an irreversibly world-destroying force like the Biolizard, Erazor Djinn, King Arthur, Perfect Chaos, Solaris etc
Eggman has come close to doing so but only by accident since he still needs a world to rule, which is why he and Sonic are in constant conflict, he never purposely crosses that line
>he'll pull the trigger on Eggman if he ever comes close to being an irreversibly world-destroying force
You mean like the Metal Virus (an arc that was suppose to be the big finale for Archie Sonic before the Pender-pocalypse)
Nah. Just look at any Genesis game and how he never tries to actually stop Eggman after he foils his plans. Once all his big machines and Emerald stealing is over with, he just fricks off to sleep in a tree or something.
The entire comic is shit for the same reason Archie is shit, the villains are enabled by the heroes. This is automatic shit writing when villains are written as horrific monsters who regularly put the world in danger.
>This is automatic shit writing when villains are written as horrific monsters who regularly put the world in danger.
That makes no sense, it's literally the genre you are hating on. If you don't like these cartoony story lines why even read them at all? Its like saying the worst part of Mystery shows is all the mystery. Sonic is an action cartoon, the story revolves around him fighting his nemesis and various rogues, with maybe only a few one-off villains of the week. He saves the day no matter what and Eggman runs plan his next encounter with the blue menace. Rinse and repeat for 40 some odd years. I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons, but its not the genre and your obviously not the audience
>I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons
That's because Villain where these questions refer to are too monstrous, amoral, heinous individual who will never change, refuses to change, choses not to change, is 100% aware of what they're doing and the consequence of their actions and revel in the thought of what their action do to people: e.g. The Joker.
(Why do you think people don't ask why Batman doesn't kill Mr. Freeze? Because Mr. Freeze isn't causing citywide destruction or homicide on a genocidal level, he's sympathetic even.) If Eggman / The Joker wasn't so horrific then people / characters won't ask that question, that question wouldn't even be thought up.
I don't mean "Abandon comics because you've turned 18 and its time to join the army." shit, I mean thanks to our jackshit education system and a Hollywood machine that wants to make the same five movies together, we are in a situation where there is an endless wealth of material no one knows how to read anymore.
There are whole genres about the sense of permanent consequences anon wants but that means reaching out and trying a different kind of media, a mystery novel or a political thriller, a frickin Tom Clancy novel lots of people die in those.
But it's, I guess, just easier to treat the core themes of this genre as somehow being flaws to be corrected so it can turn into this promised land of Good Comics that no one can ever describe the shape of.
Anyway,
Threadly reminder that Sonic did nothing wrong.
Surge came out swinging, was plainly looking for any excuse to justify how she feels, was transparent about her readiness to end the world, and she demonstrated enough speed and power to potentially pull that off.
Sonic conversely tried to talk her out of it at every opportunity, and straight up tried to save her when she threw herself off a cliff.
Sonic isn't responsible for those he spares, they are responsible for themselves.
is right. Sonic believes in freedom and has been consistent about this, even if he can't always explain it.
>I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons, but its not the genre and your obviously not the audience
multiple generations raised exclusively on manga, anime & video games (and those they have inspired) have become desensitized to long running series. Everything is all about internal consistency, loredumps & most of all, consequences.
More kids are so done with western media, demanding that long standing traditions are destroyed in the name of "progress" (i.e Batman should kill the Joker)
And since everyone, their fricking mother & Ian Flynn keeps insisting that Sonic is "KINO SOUL SHONEN ACTION", now they want Sonic to move on from Eggman so he can fight "S3r1oUs" baddies like Infinite's e-girl daughter or Darkness the Darkness hog or whatever fricking juvinile shit.
Some homies just can't accept that sometimes, cartoon hedgehog is a cartoon hedgehog that needs to fight his arch nemesis all the time, and questioning that just makes problems for everyone.
I wonder if future generations are just gonna expect an emotional conclusion to when Wile. E is gonna catch the Road Runner, and I weep at the thought
He's a teenager and everything that happen in the game is canon. He mature enough to make choices.
>I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons
That's because Villain where these questions refer to are too monstrous, amoral, heinous individual who will never change, refuses to change, choses not to change, is 100% aware of what they're doing and the consequence of their actions and revel in the thought of what their action do to people: e.g. The Joker.
(Why do you think people don't ask why Batman doesn't kill Mr. Freeze? Because Mr. Freeze isn't causing citywide destruction or homicide on a genocidal level, he's sympathetic even.) If Eggman / The Joker wasn't so horrific then people / characters won't ask that question, that question wouldn't even be thought up.
Yeah he was, but I think that was the intention. I've mentioned this before but his fight with Surge has him drawn with rather antagonistic poses and expressions. While Surge constantly looks like she's on the verge of a mental breakdown, Sonic has these shit-eating grins. Pic related is one of the cover variants.
They're probably setting up for a later arc where he has a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview. And in a hypothetical future skirmish with Surge he'll be the one who's framed in a more sympathetic light.
No. Sega will NEVER allow it. That's the big problem. And even if Sega did not own Sonic, Flynn's writing style has always been the villains are monstrous evil bastards who get away with their crimes because the heroes are enablers.
Sonic is almost as bad as Spider-Man saving Carnage life.
No offense man, but I've seen teenagers go for the kill. Image related is a kid protagonist. Sora from Kingdom Hearts is some underaged teenage kid around Sonic's age and what does he do to his enemies? He KILLS them. It's dressed up with pretty lights and such, but he still kills because he kills them. A Disney character has more balls than Sonic.
And if a villain dares to come back with another incarnation? Sora re-kills them until the death finally sticks which is what happened with Xehanort who kept coming back. Sonic has no excuse.
Threadly reminder that Sonic did nothing wrong.
Surge came out swinging, was plainly looking for any excuse to justify how she feels, was transparent about her readiness to end the world, and she demonstrated enough speed and power to potentially pull that off.
Sonic conversely tried to talk her out of it at every opportunity, and straight up tried to save her when she threw herself off a cliff.
Sonic isn't responsible for those he spares, they are responsible for themselves.
Sad thing is Surge can make that choice any time she wants. She didn't have to fight sonic, she could've turned on Starline and fought Eggman if she wanted.
Surge could've turned all that pain and suffering into something positive, but she made her choice, she wants revenge on the world.
It’s hard to say if Surge really had a choice. After all that brainwashing she may only think she made a choice to rebel but in reality she did exactly what she was programmed to do.
>Eggman spends some time as a amnesiac caring individual. >Upon regaining memories return to being a evil doctor. >Following plan upon regaining memories was causing a global apocalypse and ending all life.
Him forgetting every ounce of Mr. Tinker in him, not learning from the experience of being nice and forgetting (which he didn't) that whole relaxing life is what bothers me.
Not even something like Mr. Tinker appearing besides Eggman like a ghost; a figment / a representation of the morality he gain as a kind person as who would question Dr. Eggman actions; should you be doing this / is this really a good idea?
It just, It's evident that Sonic and Eggman is the constant of these comics and everyone and everything will revolve around them and their conflict. It would be nice if the 2 are more rounded and able to change (even if it's in small ways) so the stories can be too, otherwise everything is static and stagnant. "The Sonic Cycle". If Starline couldn't outright stop the "Cycle" he could at least help changed it a bit (I'm now talking meta-ly).
>Him forgetting every ounce of Mr. Tinker in him, not learning from the experience of being nice and forgetting (which he didn't) that whole relaxing life is what bothers me.
well, he didn't entirely. i hope they do more with this.
The very first thing he did when regaining his memories was to zombify the village that took him in with 0 regret. He’s way past the point of redemption, this page was totally pointless and contradicts the rest of the story.
The very first thing he did when regaining his memories was to zombify the village that took him in with 0 regret. He’s way past the point of redemption, this page was totally pointless and contradicts the rest of the story.
Didn't archie have Eggman dress as a luchadore because he does like seeing kids smile.
I quite like the idea that Eggman IS an evil genius who wants to take over the world, but has a softspot for kids, like some kind of evil santa.
It's still cool and I still like that aspect. Being a one dimensional horrible monster was better done with better reason in fleetway.
I like eggman as just an butthole with a mission, but still has his human qualities.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The story where he gets berated by Santa is golden
2 years ago
Anonymous
Fleetway Eggman also went to prison. He actually lost his empire and never fully regained dominance.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Also started losing his goddamn mind later on, to the point even Grimer bailed on him by the end.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And Fleetway Sonic was actually the same as IDW Sonic. He firmly believed that Robotnik could reform and Kintobar would return. And he still jailed him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Also started losing his goddamn mind later on, to the point even Grimer bailed on him by the end.
IDWbros...why doesn't OUR Eggman ever face consequences...?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Because IDW Sonic is a moron who keeps letting him off the hook. And this cancerous philosophy spreads to other people in his own world too, to the point Tangle prevents Whisper from justifiably offing Mimic.
Let's not forget that his first act upon regaining his memories was testing the metal virus on the village that cared for him as Mr. Tinker just to mock them. Sonic was wrong as frick
Sonic not wanting blood on his hands is one thing but saving Eggman from other people who have entirely justified reasons for wanting to kill him is pure homosexualry
>metal sonic controlled eggman's forces while he was mr. tinker >took over angel island >tried to kill everyone >defeated and captured >sonic let him go >eggman created the metal virus and unleashed it on the world, starting with the village that took him in >sonic and silver removed it from the world and sonic was sent to the sol dimension >comes back to find eggman trying to kill everyone again because he was gone >let's eggman leave
We are in "Goku keeps giving senzu beans to his enemies" territory.
>archie sonic has jailed eggman >stc sonic has jailed eggman multiple times >sonic x eggman has been jailed
And yet anyone defending IDW Sonic seems to ignore this and go straight to the extreme as if that was the only option.
And yet anyone defending IDW Sonic seems to ignore this and go straight to the extreme as if that was the only option.
Face it anon, you made a hundred posts repeating the same arguments and got refuted over and over, none of those villains killed anyone but you want Sonic to execute them and act like this
Sonic doesn’t need to personally execute villains.
He just needs to get over himself and realise fighting to protect Tinker was a mistake. Which he won’t, because he’s a narcissist.
Wow. That’s literally what the first post you replied to was saying you’d do. There are alternatives to killing Eggman. Putting him in jail. Something every other Sonic but IDW Sonic has done. But all you can do is focus on the extreme case, something most Sonics would never do, in order to make a point.
>IDW Sonic is the only Sonic, if presented with the opportunity to capture either of them, wouldn't and would just leave.
So did nobody play the games here or something?
>I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons
That's because Villain where these questions refer to are too monstrous, amoral, heinous individual who will never change, refuses to change, choses not to change, is 100% aware of what they're doing and the consequence of their actions and revel in the thought of what their action do to people: e.g. The Joker.
(Why do you think people don't ask why Batman doesn't kill Mr. Freeze? Because Mr. Freeze isn't causing citywide destruction or homicide on a genocidal level, he's sympathetic even.) If Eggman / The Joker wasn't so horrific then people / characters won't ask that question, that question wouldn't even be thought up.
Why does everyone think the alternative HAS to be him running around killing people? By adjusting his worldview I mean something along the lines of him being more hands-on with those he gives second chances to, not just leaving them alone and hoping they either don't frick up or someone comes in and forces them to frick up.
The flaw of his worldview isn't him offering mercy, it's him offering no follow up.
Sometimes i wonder if SEGA not making Waku Waku Sonic Patrol canon was a mistake.
Cuz you homies keep wanting Sonic to be the police or something.
Batman doesn't let the villein walk off.
Batman would gladly let the Joker and the like be executed if the state found them legit guilty.
Sonic for some odd reason in IDW has violated the basic rule of these type of toons by letting the villein walk off as opposed to going in for the catch but being blocked from doing so.
I really don't like how this issue really simultaneously hammered in that status quo and reputation are absolute in this comic, from three angles at once.
I guess Starline had it coming, but I really thought they other two would fair a little better than that. Holy shit. Rivals usually fall off in relevance and competence with repeated appearances. But this was their first actual fight against the guys there were made to fight. It's only going to get worse for them.
>I really don't like how this issue really simultaneously hammered in that status quo and reputation are absolute in this comic, from three angles at once
WTF did you expect from a writer completly autistic for the source material and a license that is only interested in keeping their brand iron-clad intact?
This is what happens when fans expect Duck L'Orange out of the same pink gunk McDonalds uses to make their chicken nuggets.
That what Sonic is - Chicken Nugget Happy Meal.
>Eggman spends some time as a amnesiac caring individual. >Upon regaining memories return to being a evil doctor. >Following plan upon regaining memories was causing a global apocalypse and ending all life.
Him forgetting every ounce of Mr. Tinker in him, not learning from the experience of being nice and forgetting (which he didn't) that whole relaxing life is what bothers me.
Not even something like Mr. Tinker appearing besides Eggman like a ghost; a figment / a representation of the morality he gain as a kind person as who would question Dr. Eggman actions; should you be doing this / is this really a good idea?
>Not even something like Mr. Tinker appearing besides Eggman like a ghost; a figment / a representation of the morality he gain as a kind person as who would question Dr. Eggman actions; should you be doing this / is this really a good idea?
Speaking of Status Quo is God , Mr. Tinker leaving so soon was the worst idea that IDW made and Flynn or SEGA should be punished for that.
It was genius - it allows the comic to explore other potential antagonists while technically, having Eggman waiting in the wings.
And yeah, Tinker riding shotgun with Eggy, Superior Spider-Man style, would've made for a more interesting Robotnik to watch.
But SEGA doesn't like fun & Flynn is a hack who literally recycled an old Archie plot for his second story, so that's that.
Yeah he was, but I think that was the intention. I've mentioned this before but his fight with Surge has him drawn with rather antagonistic poses and expressions. While Surge constantly looks like she's on the verge of a mental breakdown, Sonic has these shit-eating grins. Pic related is one of the cover variants.
They're probably setting up for a later arc where he has a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview. And in a hypothetical future skirmish with Surge he'll be the one who's framed in a more sympathetic light.
Yes, but it was all the more prevalent in this issue. IDW!Sonic has been shown to be more caring right out the gate than this. I can see this in the future making him upset for not having handled it as (relatively) well as Tails did.
What's most likely going to happen is Sonic will find out the truth about Surge's previous life. Sonic will help restore how she was. Surge will apologize and say she was wrong to have ever doubted Sonic's way of doing things and we are back Sonic allowing the villains to get away with their crimes because we know that Flynn would never have Sonic kill the villains. It's not even about Sega. This is Flynn's style, he loves monstrous villains who the heroes conveniently never kill.
What a fricking mess. Say what you will, but we all know that no random character is going to character develop Sonic into killing his enemies. That's simply not going to happen.
And what I don't understand is the fetish for this annoying shitty unrealistic even for a cartoon or comic pacifism. It's just an insult to the audience. All it does is make want to grab the same staff writing this shit and put them to the test. For someone to murder their loved ones right down to their pets and then demand that they act pacifist just like all the pacifist heroes they seem to worship from Sonic, Batman, Steven Universe, Aang from Avatar and you get it. I want to test their damn morality, lets see whether or not they are hypocrites.
Nope, Wander over Yander, Wander saved the villain after she destroyed millions of planets without giving time to countless to escape, then tried to kill millions at once just to be stopped by Lord Hater who wanted the planet for himself without Wander help at all, then Wander saved her and everybody let her go while threatening them.
oh and to make it better, Wander plans all failed and even helped Dominator, Hater never had a change of heart at any moment and only defeated her because he hated her, the day was saved by the villain selfish goals and a deus ex machina rebuilding the galaxy, Wander objectively made everything worse
oh and to make it better, Wander plans all failed and even helped Dominator, Hater never had a change of heart at any moment and only defeated her because he hated her, the day was saved by the villain selfish goals and a deus ex machina rebuilding the galaxy, Wander objectively made everything worse
It was simply bizarre how the show treat it as a victory for Wander even though the only thing he did was save an angry Dominator life and help her escape while giving her gifts.
oh and to make it better, Wander plans all failed and even helped Dominator, Hater never had a change of heart at any moment and only defeated her because he hated her, the day was saved by the villain selfish goals and a deus ex machina rebuilding the galaxy, Wander objectively made everything worse
[...]
It was simply bizarre how the show treat it as a victory for Wander even though the only thing he did was save an angry Dominator life and help her escape while giving her gifts.
Seemed like the victory came from Wander's insistence on treating Hater as a redeemable person rather than The Enemy, which paved the way for everyone working together to beat Dominator. Without Wander, everyone would have kept seeing Hater as just a violent egotistical dipshit. No one would have recognized how insecure and desperate for acceptance he was, and never ever considered lending the support to hype him up. Wander's treatment of Dominator was just an extension of that. The implication is that, as with Hater, that attitude may eventually pay off with her.
>Seemed like the victory came from Wander's insistence on treating Hater as a redeemable person rather than The Enemy, which paved the way for everyone working together to beat Dominator
It didn't in fact they all agreed before facing Dominatior their plans was simply stupid, they all went to the planet because they were desperate and only allowed Hater to aid them due to the fact they were too busy to even pay attention to him. >Without Wander, everyone would have kept seeing Hater as just a violent egotistical dipshit. No one would have recognized how insecure and desperate for acceptance he was, and never ever considered lending the support to hype him up
That's your headcanon, they hyped Hater because if he failed they would all die right away, Hater almost lost because he was doubting himself due to Dominator victories but recovered his strenght after convincing himself he was still the villain he ever was >Wander's treatment of Dominator was just an extension of that. The implication is that, as with Hater, that attitude may eventually pay off with her.
You see, the problem is Wander never convinced Hater to anything, not even once, even Spongebob managed to convince Plankton to be a hero a few times but Hater never had this moment, not even the climax where he destroyed Dominator ending had him being a hero, he only proved Wander wrong again and again
And you could forgive all of that if Wander had in anyway helped save the day but he didn't, unlike Sonic, unlike Steven unlike Naruto nothing he ever did helped anyone, he gave Dominator even more power to kill even more people and then saved her life and gave her the means to escape the planet and be free.
Flynn has literally stated he has no intention to redeem either Kit or Surge, nor is he in control of the current direction of the comics. But keep having a breakdown I guess.
>a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview
Like how? He believes in forgiveness and second chances, even though his allies have repeatedly criticized him for that attitude. He himself has wondered about it too, but he's eventually decided that he wants to give people a second chance. He told Surge he wants her to have an opportunity to live a better life too. So what kind of an adjustment to his worldview do you mean? Do you want Sonic to lose his hope and optimism so that he'll be more ruthless to his villains?
Why does everyone think the alternative HAS to be him running around killing people? By adjusting his worldview I mean something along the lines of him being more hands-on with those he gives second chances to, not just leaving them alone and hoping they either don't frick up or someone comes in and forces them to frick up.
The flaw of his worldview isn't him offering mercy, it's him offering no follow up.
I didn't say anything about killing, I asked if you wanted him to be more ruthless. He could simply lose his hope that a villainous person can ever reform, and he could refuse to ever accept them as friends. He could be angry and serious rather than playful and wienery in fight scenes.
I guess you want him to be more sensitive, then? Offering therapy for his villains so that they'll stay good? If that's what you want, I think you're asking too much. Sonic enjoys his freedom to run around, and he doesn't even want to get too tied up with all the nice people at the Restoration since he's not keen on the responsibilities. Also, he's a guy with an attitude and a habit of teasing others. I don't think he wants to become anyone's emotional support hedgehog.
I really hope you don't want Sonic to lose his most distinct character traits simply because you fap to Surge, and you're upset that Sonic didn't even have to try too hard to beat her.
>Sonic enjoys his freedom to run around, and he doesn't even want to get too tied up with all the nice people at the Restoration since he's not keen on the responsibilities.
His love of "freedom" nearly resulted in planet-wide omnicide complete with the deaths of everyone he loves and cares about.
I just wondering why isn't Shadow giving Sonic constant shit for his beliefs constantly blowing up in his face time after time. After a while Shadow (and a few other characters) would have (and probably should have) put their comically oversized shoes down and berate Sonic's (in)actions and (in)abilities. They would've probably formed a separate group, one who would actually "clean up" the "filth" once and for all; a story of infighting, a civil war probably.
They argued over Mr. Tinker but Shadow was talked down and even ridiculed. Then the Metal Virus happened, Shadow appeared one issue, and then got turned into a zombot when he went full moron. And then Shadow ended up feeling like he owed Sonic because he didn't heed Sonic's warning. Knuckles called him out during the last part of Metal Virus and again in the FCBD issue for Sonic bringing trouble to his island. Cream had one panel where she was mad at Sonic. Other than that, everyone turns a blind eye to Sonic's failed attempts at talk no jutsu.
To be fair Cream's mom had been zombified so while her anger was understandable she was still ultimately in the wrong for doubting Sonicgod.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>tfw eggman creates a space death laser that destroys your home and all your little friends were fried to a crisp and sonic stops eggman and tells him to run off and think about what he did >tfw you regret talking whisper down from shooting him in the head
Honestly I think Shadow should be a little colder. Yes, his debut was literally him being told to give the people of Earth I MEAN SONIC'S WORLD BECAUSE SEGA MANDATES MAKE EARTH NON CANON IN THE COMICS a second chance, but you'd think that would also mean he's pretty no-nonsense about things that threaten the wellbeing of other people. Perhaps he doesn't put down threats for good because he's worried he doesn't have the whole story and doesn't want to become someone else's GUN. If that's the case, though, he should still be a bit harsher than Sonic. Shadow should actually yeet people into prison, but does the IDW sonic world even have a legal system? I'm not asking for a courtroom drama arc, I just mean could someone like Starline once he's not relevant to the plot actually be sent to jail?
2 years ago
Anonymous
They HAD a jail, but after Mimic, Rough and Tumble, Zavok and Starline went through it, I'm not sure he useful it would be.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, see, I think actually having a useful prison would be helpful. Sometimes you need to kill rogue's gallery members to put them out of commission, but I get that's not feasible for Sonic comics. Single-arc villains should get tossed in the slammer. Maybe Mobius —I MEAN SONIC'S WORLD fricking Sega — actually makes the lesser baddies like rough and tumble do some community service and they become ordinary civilians after doing time. People like Starline shouldn't get that privilege, though.
FWIW: I'm pretty sure Starline is going to get written out of the story by his Warp Topaz malfunctioning and shunting him into a void dimension/space between spaces sort of deal where he's stuck until Ian runs out of ideas with the other villains. Maybe Surge will be the one that makes it malfunction with her electrical powers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Starline lost the Warp Topaz and his Tricore. Hes aldo probsbly dead, unless Evan decides to bring him back, since Ian has no intention of doing so.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh shit, I missed that the topaz was actually destroyed when they used it to wrap up the metal virus plot.
Well good, Starline was a shitty villain so him being dead sooner rather than later is no skin off my back.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh, apparently Sega didn't want it written out, so while it was written to be destroyed initially, it's still around.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Starline was okay, even as a Snively replacement. I did like the basic idea of his philosophical disagreement with Eggman but do take some issue with it. Because, well, I already saw Archie's Eggman learn the same lesson that Starline just did in Issue 50: Adaptability beats meticulous planning. Back then it paid off nicely because Eggman used it as a stepping stone in his evolution as a villain. When it comes to Starline, I don't see where his character can go from here. Maybe end up insecure about his own intelligence, less pompous, more willing to open his ears and listen to others?
2 years ago
Anonymous
While we are never going to get the Archie version of Shadow back, I too would prefer that IDW Shadow was less of a moronic rival desperate to prove how he's the greatest and more of an intense pragmatist who's version of "do the right thing" is the source of his friction with Sonic. The annoying part is how we almost have that, it would just take a couple of tweaks.
This is Shonen shit 101, why are people surprised Sonic isnt going around killing all his villains? Did they forget theyre not reading a comic for adults?
I think the biggest difference I noticed in his attitude was not the kill or no kill thing.
It was that he seemed to be enjoying beating up Surge when in most cases he would stop the fight instead.
You can see he wasn't even powered up with energy, the problem is not that he obliterated her, the strange thing is how unusually content he was while doing so.
I think the issue isn't so much Sonic's philosophy as how little he's forced to really think it over. Surge confronts him with some fairly compelling consequences of his past choices, but Sonic just brushes it off by spouting casual platitudes. It does come off like a villain speech. This lack of serious introspection has been an ongoing issue throughout the comic. Shadow criticized Sonic for his role in the metal virus fiasco but was written as a dipshit chump so his opinion could be discarded. Sonic later turned around and laid the blame at Metal's feet. His beliefs make sense for the character but have not stood up to serious scrutiny and so remain less than convincing. Which in turn makes Sonic look like a naive enabler who operates on "muh feefees."
>They're probably setting up for a later arc where he has a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview
At this point, I seriously doubt it. Because the comic has repeatedly gone out of its way to let Sonic ignore any pesky ethical questions that get downright screamed in his face. Which is a real shame, because Sonic having to actual grapple with this shit would be a lot more interesting than "lol u mad."
Yea I think it's going somewhere. Even Tails seems to be getting a bit sick of it.
Whatever the whole book is basically the writers trying to make a good story when marketing people are doing what marketing people do and making it almost impossible with random arbirary instructions. It's actually shocking how often my least favourite things about IDW Sonic turn out to be the artists making it having try to work within the demands given to them while creating a compelling comic
Anyone else here that kind of doesn't like the artist's style who worked on this issue? I can't really explain it, it's extremely competent and I recognise that it's good, but something about it creeps me the frick out.
If I was put in charge of writing the comics/a cartoon show I'd handle it like Kids Next Door.
And I'd keep a separate wacky AU where all sorts of crazy degenerate shit happens like Tails temporarily voring Sonic to absorb his powers.
Shadow would regain his eloquent dialogue from Sonic X's very few scenes and Shadow would be turned into a triple agent traitor instead of an antihero.
It's even worse when you realize that Metal was the first big bad of IDW. After everything with Neo Metal, Sonic lets him go like he found Jesus or something.
Donald has friends who do, but that's specifically in his slightly more edgy comics. Donald also got pissed enough that he wanted to kill one of his villains and came very close to doing so in one issue
I'm not in the "Kill the Bastard" group, I just question the writer's idea of:
Letting villains be psychopaths a letting them do extremely horrible things,
The heroes only stopping the current crime but not holding the criminal accountable,
The Hero having a view on reforming criminals while said criminals told them outright they are never going to change,
The supporting cast letting the Hero constantly letting irredeemable villains go without question or resistance,
The mentioning of the "Status Quo" in-narrative and referring to how bad it is but later on doubling down on it wholesale, confirming nothing is going to change no mater how many detours.
All I want is consequences, no death required
I'm pretty sure anyone that states the opposition only wants Sonic to kill Eggman are just trolls trying to keep things going. Because that's all they're saying. It's easy to dismiss the other side when you focus on the extreme.
Sonic not wanting blood on his hands is one thing but saving Eggman from other people who have entirely justified reasons for wanting to kill him is pure homosexualry
Nah, it fits his personality, he's too cool to kill.
Dont they have a prison? Just put bad guys in there?
Basically same problem batman has, to a lesser degree since it's sonic. It should be the government's problem after the hero stops the bad guy.
>Dont they have a prison? Just put bad guys in there?
Yes. They put Mimic, Rough and Tumble, and even Zavok in there. But Sonic let Metal Sonic go. And he didn't bother to capture Eggman. >It should be the government's problem after the hero stops the bad guy.
Kind of hard to do anything when your "hero" is releasing killer robots and pardoning mass murderers.
>eggman gets amnesia and becomes good >everyone wants to jail or kill him >sonic talks them all down >good eggman gets kidnapped by starline, the villain oc that wants to serve under eggman >metal sonic runs eggman's forces and becomes neo metal again >gets beaten and held >tails repairs him and sonic lets him go >starline tries to get eggman to remember his evil self but he doesn't >metal appears and eggman touches him once and immediately gets his memories back >eggman goes right back to his old ways and unleashes a zombie robot virus that turns everyone into a mindless zombot >almost everyone becomes a zombot >eggman has no plan to control the zombots and that frustrates starline >starline calls in the zeti >eggman gets pissed and has to run and work with the heroes to save the day >sonic goes super with silver and they deus ex mahina the virus from the world >sonic ends up getting sent to the sol dimension and has amnesia for an issue and blaze sends him back home >sonic arrives to find his friends having a party for surviving the zombot outbreak and eggman showed up in a giant robot trying to kill them all >everyone beats eggman and sonic lets eggman fly off >starline is on the run and hides in eggman's facilities trying to figure out a way to get back at him >takes various things and enhances surge and kit to be his weapons, brainwashing them to hate sonic and tails >starline goes to eggman's main hq and tries to take over >starline fights eggman, loses, has a mental breakdown and "dies" >sonic meets surge for the first time and she tells him it's his fault her life was ruined >she wants to kill eggman and starline >sonic says he won't let her do that and that he will always give even them as many chances as they need to become good >surge doesn't like that and fights sonic >sonic beats her and she falls down a pit
Yes. IDW Sonic is trying to redeem his villains and keeps letting them go. The only problem is that it hasn't worked. At all. Now Sonic and Tails are stuck in Eggman's city and he's trying to kill them all.
>"Maybe you'll eventually come around..."
If the writers kept Mr. Tinker around in some shape or form then maybe this sentence wouldn't fell so hollow.
Surge isn’t important. She was super overhyped, she doesn’t even get Sonic to doubt himself, she’s just some jobber for Sonic to squash. Starline is the villain the entire comic revolved around.
She got her own miniseries and was hyped in the main book as a powerful mysterious figure for several issues. She was the central focus on several comic covers. Surge and Kitt were hyped to all hell and they ended up being Rough and Tumble but with electricity and water powers.
>was hyped in the main book as a powerful mysterious figure for several issues
It was stated she was not able to beat Sonic several times, also >no powerwank
That's good, frick this DBZ shit where every single villain needs to be stronger than the last to inflate hype
Rivals need to be strong in order to be you know, rivals. They literally need to rival the hero’s strength. If Shadow or Knuckles ate shit in their first fight against Sonic they would have no fans.
She doesn’t have to be the strongest person ever, but for frick’s sake at least get in a dirty hit or two and make Sonic struggle.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>was hyped in the main book as a powerful mysterious figure for several issues
It was stated she was not able to beat Sonic several times, also >no powerwank
That's good, frick this DBZ shit where every single villain needs to be stronger than the last to inflate hype
Sonic was visibly sweating and mentioned that she was pretty tough. Surge didn't beat him, but she seemed to be a pretty formidable opponent. Not bad for her first outing against a more experienced Sonic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I don’t remember her getting a single good hit in. Her big suicide attack amounted to lightly Shocking Sonic’s finger.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They boot eachother in the face once, and she slugs him into a wall during the first big action panel they have.
>Her big suicide attack amounted to lightly Shocking Sonic’s finger.
That was just her being spiteful after losing. Her energy was drained at that point; it wasn't a Big Limit Breaker Suicide Attack.
2 years ago
Anonymous
the writing make it seem like sonic was barely trying. He wasn't upset or struggling like he did with Shadow or Knuckles. He was having fun why surge was being a sperg.
2 years ago
Anonymous
She didn't have him on the ropes like Shadow or Knux did, but she gave him something to think about. That was my read of it, anyway.
He'll break out
This whole argument is the batman joker question all over again
Batman doesn't let the villein walk off.
Batman would gladly let the Joker and the like be executed if the state found them legit guilty.
Sonic for some odd reason in IDW has violated the basic rule of these type of toons by letting the villein walk off as opposed to going in for the catch but being blocked from doing so.
People forget that the hero actually trying to stop the villain is important, even if the villain comes back eventually. Sure, Joker is gonna break out again, but Batman at least looks like less of a moron if he actually tries to put him away.
>Batman vs. Joker
The fact that we're even able to compare Eggman to the Joker is a great example of how 2edgy this franchise has become.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Knuckles
Sonic was a kid and a rookie >Shadow
Is supposed to be the ultimate rival
Surge role is to be a newbie and underdog with potential.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It can be nothing, but you can see he doesn't have an energy aura around him like when he fights other characters.
it seems to imply he clearly wasn't using any substantial ammount of his chaos powers to beat surge.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The fight was interrupted by falling debris.
I don’t remember her getting a single good hit in. Her big suicide attack amounted to lightly Shocking Sonic’s finger.
>Her big suicide attack
No one seems to reread this part. Sonic calls a truce to pull Surge up and she jolts Sonic for "last hit", but its after that that the debris falls. Had the debris not fallen, then what? She would let go and fall, climb out by herself or let Sonic pull her backup.
Tails would have instantly died if that Not!GBE so much as grazed him, moron. At that point, there is no excuse for not offing Eggman. He was shooting to kill with zero moral hangups.
Why does everyone in the west want to make a super deep, dark and dramatic Sonic anyway? What the frick is wrong with wacky 90s extreme adventures of an obvious X-Games mascot character being cool and running fast on things?
>implying japan hasn't been pushing it for years
You haven't played any Sonic game in the past 20 years. Eggman has conquered the planet, enslaved entire races, and almost killed everyone multiple times. The edge was there and it was brought to you by Sonic Team.
>Eggman has conquered the planet, enslaved entire races, and almost killed everyone multiple times. The edge was there and it was brought to you by Sonic Team.
Yes, and that is why we ridicule those games all the time.
After all, Sonic had a rough transition into 3D
Donald has friends who do, but that's specifically in his slightly more edgy comics. Donald also got pissed enough that he wanted to kill one of his villains and came very close to doing so in one issue
>Angry dyke with a mohawk plasting aliens in space
So if Surge hadn't attacked Sonic himself and instead made a beeline for Starline and Eggman (say, after they had destroyed eachothers' mechs so they couldn't fight back), would Sonic have stopped her from frying them?
I get him fighting her in the somic, since she's attacking him and had barely explained her motives before going "I'M GOING TO BURN THE FRICKING WORLD!!", but would he have actually kept her from killing Eggman and Starline?
Yes. IDW Sonic won't let anyone die when he's around. And honestly a lot of Sonics wouldn't let her. The difference is that IDW Sonic is the only Sonic, if presented with the opportunity to capture either of them, wouldn't and would just leave.
IDW Sonic is so friggin' weird. A guy that's sugary-sweet to the point of being a lazy butthole is not really what I have in mind when I think of Sonic the Hedgehog.
Krazyelf
Ah, that explains it. She's probably drawn him straddling other dudes loads of times.
>IDW Sonic is the only Sonic, if presented with the opportunity to capture either of them, wouldn't and would just leave.
So did nobody play the games here or something?
Only game I can remember off the top where it was like that was SA2. And they had all just gone through a fricking near end of the world event and death thanks to messing with wild forces.
Everything else is eggman getting blown the frick out or going down with the ship.
In ShtH and Heroes, he's literally standing by the heroes and yet he doesn't even get jailed. They do car races with him and they enter competitions hosted by Eggman. They fight him and don't go out of their way to save him from the fallout but they don't go out of their way to detain him either.
Yes. He pretty explicitly tells her he would, along the lines of "I won't let you take away anyone else's freedom". Mind you, this is after Starline took away Mr. Tinker's freedom to be a good genuinely kind person and after Eggman nearly took away EVERYONE'S freedom with the Metal Virus.
Yes. IDW Sonic won't let anyone die when he's around. And honestly a lot of Sonics wouldn't let her. The difference is that IDW Sonic is the only Sonic, if presented with the opportunity to capture either of them, wouldn't and would just leave.
Game/Modern Sonic would also let both just leave, but he'd at least kick their asses first. And I think Movie would just let her go to town. He's the only version who has tried to kill his Robotnik as a first response, going by the second movie where he attacks the house.
The entire population of the planet was nearly extinguished. Close enough.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>nearly
Key word. Almost every Eggman scheme has to potential loss of life but they're stopped in the end and yet no one cared that Sonic didn't kill or jail him before IDW.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nta, They don't go into much detail about how these events affect the populace, in the comics they do.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Which just reveals how arbitrary this "outrage" is. This is how Eggman and Sonio have operated for years. If you seriously didn't think how his shit would affect the average joe before then you're lacking brain cells.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tell that to Twitter tards.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Twitter tards intrinsically lack brain cells. It's too late for them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tell that to Twitter tards.
I think the outrage comes from having to suffer through the Metal Virus arc. Eggman needs to die, not for the pain he caused the cast, but for the pain he caused the audience.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Its just weird have villians do really heinous stuff and we're supposed to be glad the hero didn't kill them or at least let them die via explosion, bloodlost or whatever.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Eggman has implicitly killed many people in the games. He killed most of the Resistance in Forces even, which is canon to IDW.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And he got the same treatment like always in TSR.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Hell he on-screen tortured a city to death with the egg grapes back in Archie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It doesn't count because nobody REALLY died. Everyone just got mind- and body-raped, and that's totally okay and warrants no retribution whatsoever!
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It doesn't count because nobody REALLY died.
If you weren't calling for Eggman's blood since Adventure, then you have no place to say it's mandatory now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What's even funnier is that if you point out mass destruction like flooding, separation of the earth crust and more it won't count somehow.
Chaos (not entirely by its own will, but still), Eggman in the games alone, Starline, Mogul has DEFINITELY killed people but he's immortal so eh, Scourge probably has a body count too.
When the villains are portrayed as complete edgelords who cause a zombie apocalypse, don't act all surprised when people want the heroes to actually try to punish them.
IDW Shadow is a complete moron who'd probably job to a five year-old. IDW is bending over backwards so hard to justify Sonic's worldview that it assfricks Shadow's character.
>You Black folk are lucky that little b***h gets a guest spot every now and then.
I'd rather have him not appear at all than have him appear to be Vegetadow the Moron.
I'm not like the Shadowspammer b***hing that he doesn't appear in every issue or have some prick-waving contest with Sonic every five minutes, but I'd like for him not to be a complete fricking useless dipshit when he DOES show.
Sega has decreed that Shadow must be more like Vegeta. That is to say he's the token butthole teammate whose ego exacerbates the problem of the heroes and then gets his shit pushed in to make the villain look more threatening.
Bullshit. All companies like Hasbro and Sega do not give a rat's ass about what you do with their IPs otherwise they would have ripped the contract immediately and constantly hired and rehired new people who are actually competent.
All Sega wants are money and to avoid another dumb lawsuit. Suits always have dumb ideas about how to get more money, and the Japanese especially are paranoid when it comes to IP protection. It's not hard to see why the comic would fall under additional scrutiny and dumb controls meant to keep it on the rails, especially given Sega's history with the franchise.
>otherwise they would have ripped the contract immediately and constantly hired and rehired new people who are actually competent
How are incompetent people suppose to know who is competent enough to hire?
Sonic will just stop him. Seems like we're going to have an "evil shadow" arc. We're he gain more to enacted his will and still lose to sonic and accomplished nothing.
He's incredibly incompetent in IDW.
I don't know why ether. He seemed hyper competent in the Forces DLC, essentially speed running Sonic's quest before the game even began.
Why though? He doesn't really fail in the games. Just falls out of focus so Sonic can save the say. More akin to a modern rival in a shonen series, than Vegeta.
Who knows. For years there was some Hollywood executive who tried to insert giant spiders into every script he could and can be thanked for Wild Wild West. It could be simple as a DBZ = popular = profitable mindset.
Forces was needlessly serious and will still be the last main game until Frontier comes out.
And Frontier stars yet ANOTHER black and red antagonist, apparently.
2 years ago
Boco
Forces is also a laughingstock. And we'll see how serious Frontier is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So was Lost Worlds, and we're still being feed the Zeti.
At this point they should just retcon IDW Shadow as some android fake and pull the real one out of cryostasis, because right now his potential character arc boils down to stop being a tryhard imbecile.
>He seemed hyper competent in the Forces DLC
Based on what? He took out some jobber mercenaries, got tripped up by the main villain he inspired and then disappeared for 6 months.
>Ian forces Shadow to job to prop up Sonic and Silver
What a cringefest. I expect him to job to Surge later on too since Ian only cares about propping up his female oc's.
Ian isn't the one writing Shadow like this, moron. Shadow is one of his favorite characters, which is why he just quietly stopped writing him because the mandates crippled and butchered Shadow's character.
Who is making him do this then? The Japanese written games don't depict him this way. So i have doubts it's mandates from Sonic Team.
The closest thing I can associate with it is how they treat him like a self aware joke in the recent racing game. But I don't know who was in charge of the writing there.
IDW Shadow seems pretty consistent with Forces Shadow. If he's not standing around brooding then he's shit-talking proto-Infinite and kicking dirt in his eyes for personal amusement, which causes the entire problem to begin with.
Forces Shadow wasn't incompetent at all though.
And infinite was already a tryhard blood thirsty mercenary even before he put on the mask (and... apparently lost his corporeal form along the way??). So It's really hard to see Shadow bullying him as Shadow being a bad guy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shadow bothering to kick the guy when he's down was pretty weird, given he was just one more rando among many. The way he went about it was incredibly arrogant, which is well in-line with IDW Shadow. Now if proto-Infinite had gone and done something heinous to prove he was "the Ultimate Mercenary," then I could see Shadow pound him into the dirt out of disgust.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If IDW Shadow was only incredibly arrogant, he wouldn't get nearly the same complaints as he does. Instead he's paranoid, incompetent, shortsighted and overconfident. Pretty much every interaction he has with another character ultimately is designed to knock him down a peg in the eyes of the reader.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And character-wise, that's not terribly far removed from Forces Shadow. The only reason why he's more competent is because playing as a dumbass try hard wouldn't be fun.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Watching one fail isn't fun ether.
I really don't care for Shadow. But I just find IDW Shadow even more annoying. Invalidating him at every turn just makes his presence even more frustrating.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Watching one fail isn't fun ether.
The company does not care. So long as the comic is moving stock, they're fine with it. You the customer do not matter in any capacity beyond that.
He did write that arc and used mandates as an excuse for his after-the-fact terrible story directing and characterization.
Leaving this here. Again.
>MV: And the finale to season 2, which sees all the major characters return against Shadow, who tries to end the universe, also had a pretty big budget. Fittingly so! >Alan: Oh, man. Writing for Shadow was a challenge in itself. SEGA did not consider him a comedy character. They told us we could use him, he could be on the show, but he was not to be making any jokes. We were like “uh, sure.” So to work around that, the joke became the very fact that Shadow is completely humorless. So edgy, all the time. It was funny that he was here, having to deal with all these crazy people. >Greg: Shadow was a character that was very protected by SEGA. They were reluctant to let us use him very much, and when we did use him, he came with so many notes and restrictions that it was easier to not use him. That’s why he wasn’t on the show as much as fans would have wanted. >MV: So that’s why he was relegated to being a once-in-a-blue-moon, ‘special episode’ character. Was Metal Sonic the same? He doesn’t even talk, you could have used him more! >Alan: Yeah, Metal Sonic only put in the one appearance. >Greg: But we brought him back for the finale. Honestly, when characters that were existing, original-universe Sonic characters were brought in, those episodes were just too hard to write for. There were so many notes, they were such protected characters. We got to have so much more freedom with characters of our own, like Dave the Intern and the Mayor, that it was just easier. Did we want to include Big the Cat? Sure we did. But writing that would have been a huge headache, it would have had to have gone through so many layers of clearance. It would have taken ages to get approved. It wasn’t worth it. Hence why there’s only Shadow, Metal Sonic, and Vector the Crocodile in a handful of episodes.
https://www.megavisions.net/building-a-boom-iverse-an-interview-with-sonic-writers-alan-denton-and-greg-hahn/
THIS makes sense though. His depiction in Boom aligns with with how Sonic Team wants people to see him.
So why were they able to get around all this in the IDW comic? Where he's super incompetent and literally gets laughed at?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Please read that again. They specifically say that Shadow was mired in mandates and they only got around them because they made the fact that he was a total humorless moron the joke in and of itself. Even then, they just stopped using him because he was so full of restrictions it was better to make up OC's to fill the position.
IDW is FORCED to use Shadow because he's a pivotal character in the settings narrative, being a post-Forces comic. Boom could ignore him for the most part because it was mostly OC's and an original setting. Same reason they didn't have Big or any of the Chaotix except Vector.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That doesn't really challenge what I said. Nor does it really expand upon anything.
Boom Shadow very much feels like a character tied up in mandates.
IDW Shadow does not.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>IDW Shadow does not.
How the frick does "literally forgot all of his character development, abilities, friendly rivalry with Sonic and every other defining aspect of himself": The Character not feel like a character tied up in mandates? Are you moronic?
2 years ago
Anonymous
The fact that they were able to get away with him getting laughed at by other characters over the Eggman land misunderstanding, despite the very interview you posted showing how impossible it was to directly make a joke at his expense.
The fact that they are so easily able to depict him as a bumbling idiot despite the fact that he's supposed to be a character on a short leash.
I'm not really understanding what you aren't seeing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They very explicitly only got away with that because Sega didn't care about the Boom show. Boom was a mark of shame that they were eager to erase and wash their hands of. They weren't paying attention to shit when the show was being made, which by the writer's admission let them get away with a lot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not contesting what happened with the Boom show. It makes perfect sense with the supposed mandates.
It's his depiction in IDW that confuses me. He does not feel like a protected character. He does not feel like a character you aren't allowed to make fun of.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He's not made fun of in-universe. We only point out his idiocy here because we know the character and know he wouldn't be this moronic. The Metal Virus mishap is something Sega entirely signed off on because that's the sort of Shadow they want to be depicted. Which is laughable to us, but is seen as some 'heroic' if reckless action in-universe.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They must have not understood the script then. Shadow didn't even get a heroic sacrifice. He was just careless and his downfall seemed mostly to be a 'gotcha' for talking shit about Sonic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If I were in charge of the comics, Shadow would still get infected by the MV, but instead of not trying to get away and burn off the infection, he'd see of civilians be menaced by the Zombot horde, and in a moment of pure selflessness, goes on to save the civilians, but at the cost of getting himself turned in the end.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The fact that they were able to get away with him getting laughed at by other characters over the Eggman land misunderstanding
No one laughed at him. Rouge made a teasing remark, as she is wont to do, but no one was mocking him over it. Everyone got freaked out about that Eggmanland comment.
>Shadow is very protected by Sega >is allowed to be written in IDW as an idiot that forcibly jobs to prop up other characters
Strange way of protecting.
2 years ago
Anonymous
They want him to be Vegeta, is what they mean by "protecting". His use is mired in restrictions and limitations that keep him from having an actual personality or identity.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That does practically ruin the character for fans of his character. Strange Sega wants him written a certain way that only ruins him for everyone.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shadow should never have been brought back after SA2, we'd all have been better off in the longrun.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sega only took on this moronic view some timee after his game got released, and further rienforced it with 06 and the whole "get rid of Sonic's friends thing".
>It is. Because it adheres to the same principle
No it doesn't. Nothing ever says or suggests that Tails killed the BBA, but SA2/ShtH goes out of it's way to conform that Maria is dead and was killed by GUN. Her death is a relevant plot beat device. It's nowhere near ambiguous.
>Nothing ever says or suggests that Tails killed the BBA,
What suggests it is him nuking them with fricking napalm. So unless you think the birds could survive that, depsite us seeing them get explicitly cooked and falling into the open ocean by the end of the game, they're dead. They're the most dead any non-Maria character can be without the circumstances behind Maria's death. And Maria herself is never shown to be dead, only stated to be. Likewise for Gerald.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>So unless you think the birds could survive that
Sonic and Shadow have survived a fall from space. Eggman survives all kinds of explosions and crashes. I put very little faith that they treat danger or weapons as being realistic. >And Maria herself is never shown to be dead, only stated to be. Likewise for Gerald.
Now you're just saying the game is outright lying to you instead of saying nothing like the BBA. You're grasping at straws.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic and Shadow have survived a fall from space.
You mean the same fall from space THAT THEY LITERALLY BELIEVE SHADOW DIED FROM? The one that fricked his head so hard he was an amnesiac for almost all of StH? That fall?
>Eggman
Is seen escaping from all of his exploding bases/mechs/ships each and every time. He never stays there and tanks the explosion. Humans like him or his family pretty explicitly die to bullets.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You mean the same fall from space THAT THEY LITERALLY BELIEVE SHADOW DIED FROM? >BELIEVE
Keyword. And look at that, they were wrong. >The one that fricked his head so hard he was an amnesiac for almost all of StH?
If this was the real world he wouldn't have fricked up his head, he would have been ash on reentry. You do know how this shit normally works right? >Is seen escaping from all of his exploding bases/mechs/ships each and every time.
With no shrapnel or concussive damage from the explosions or crashes. That would be enough to kill people in the real world, which is why obviously it's not being treated as so. The plot demanded the deaths of Maria and Gerald so they die in a realistic manner. It's not based on realism but the plot, nothing more.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Keyword. >posts proof showing that you're full of shit and have no idea what you're talking about since not Sonic is generally assumed to be able to survive such high drops >it doesn't count because...It just doesn't OKAY!
Concession accepted.
>With no shrapnel or concussive damage from the explosions or crashes.
Still a kids game that can't show visceral details like that. Same for SA1/2 which implicitly have people die but don't show details or StH which has the Black Arms using a deadly neurotoxin to leave everyone dying and debilitated so they can eat them. Doesn't change the fact that it's explicitly a napalm bomb and does what that would imply.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>posts proof
All you did was prove that Sonic characters can survive things that would kill people which was my point. So congrats, you played yourself? >Still a kids game that can't show visceral details like that.
You say this but then turn around and say the intention was totally that an 8 yo killed dozens of people. >Same for SA1/2 which implicitly have people die but don't show details
Details don't matter when the point is that they are dead and explicitly say so.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You say this but then turn around and say the intention was totally that an 8 yo killed dozens of people.
Yes, given what is implicitly hid SA1/2 self in X killed 17 people without a care. And he definitely killed the Battle Kukku's too. Cope about it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Only Shadow and Sonic, two mobians who are literally the best of the best, have ever survived falling from orbit. And Shadow was treated as being dead at the end of SA2 and only came back because of popularity in the fanbase. Even then, he got total amnesia.
Nobody else in the franchise has ever survived such sheer drops. Not once. And in the BBA's case, they were on fricking fire when they plummeted into the ocean after Tails tore his way through their forces and wiped out the majority of their defensee. They are dead. That is the narrative.
You're the same type of moron who tries to tell people that Knuckles' Big Wave in Forces didn't get 80% of the Resistance killed because we don't see bodies flying and gore splattering everywhere.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tails, Cream, Amy, Knuckles all fall from orbit in Advance and are perfectly fine when they land
2 years ago
Anonymous
>orbit
*upper stratosphere
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wasn't it from the Death Egg? That's orbit for sure
2 years ago
Anonymous
How high the Death Egg goes varies by the game. Sometimes it's orbit, sometimes it looks to be well within the planet's atmosphere.
>I expect him to job to Surge later on too since Ian only cares about propping up his female oc's.
Ian has no interest in writing Shadow at all since he has to deal with appeasing Sega.
>sega mandates are suffocating this story
Ultimately, this is what all our complaints stem from.
Shadow's a moron because Sega wants him portrayed that way, the annoying lesbian OCs get all the focus because Sega won't let the main cast get any development, and the debate about Sonic's morality will lead nowhere because Sega won't let it.
>the debate about Sonic's morality will lead nowhere because Sega won't let it.
Lead to what? She is an villain to anti hero punk like Punisher trying to convince Daredevil or Red Hood pressuring Batman to kill.
Nta, if Eggman didn't do the whole metal virus then sonic would have a point but that event traumatized a lot of people and had the potential to kill EVERYONE so I understand why characters in the story urge sonic to kill eggman.
Yeah, it'd be easier to let things go if that villain plot involving the virus hadn't been so massive and catastrophic. It looked like everyone on the planet either got infected or had to witness their loved ones turn into zombots.
At least the Archie reboot came with OCs who had a pre-written backstory so that we didn't need to focus on them more than we had to. Even if that shark dude got too much spotlight.
Nta, if Eggman didn't do the whole metal virus then sonic would have a point but that event traumatized a lot of people and had the potential to kill EVERYONE so I understand why characters in the story urge sonic to kill eggman.
Seriously, at least Bowser just wants to kidnap a single princess.
Reminder that Eggman is not your typical bad guy.
Sega have him as a comic relief antagonist who can do anything he wants to make Eggmanland, except kill. He is seen as more of a sympathetic villain as he enjoys facing off with Sonic, And Sonic - the same with him.
Don't expect Sonic to suddenly want to off Eggman anytime soon, because Sega will not allow that kind of characterization in any form.
Let alone these trash IDW comics.
Being good and trying to be kind, in a situation when it's even irrational to do and you get no reward, could be seen as a flaw but also the strongest way to hold up a character. Without hope, without witness, without reward
Protecting an abuser and ignoring the cries of their victims for no other reason than satisfying your own preferences, isn’t “kindness”. It is the ultimate form of self-centredness.
You post the Doctor, but that man has more blood on his hands than most heroes or villains combined. And he's entirely willing to dump you into a fate worse than death with zero hesitation the instant you display that you lack the capacity for moral choice or change. See the Family of Blood.
Fair, but the rest of her family are still trapped in unending hell's for the rest of eternity. And he's fully willing to commit genocide against the Daleks or Cybermen, amongst countless others. He also killed House, permanently trapped the Wire, ended the Beast, etc.
The Doctor is the very embodiment of "when a good man goes to war" as an idiom. He'll push for peace if it's possible, but he will also flat-out kill you or worse if you're a monster with zero signs of reflecting on your actions or growth.
Surge, "I'm going to be free by following every command of the jackass who brainwashed me" and every simp acting like she and Kit aren't obviously still brainwashed and that her arguments are legitimate.
Her arguments ARE legitimate.
Sonic had literally no rebuttal to the fact he is responsible for everything the billains did after protecting them, because he factually is. All he could do was stick his fingers in his ears like a baby and refuse to be held accountable for the consequences of his own selfish actions.
Cope. Sonic’s a gay.
Her arguments are undermined by the fact that she's never followed through on any of her theories. She's accepted the most negative possibility of her past despite there being other options and is holding a random responsible instead of y'know- the other guy at the base who actually fricked her life up.
Granted if Surge went for Eggman he'd merc her, but I'd have a sliver of respect for her then.
What the frick are you talking about you idiot? Are you actually seething this much over your self-insert being slandered your memory’s fried itself with your cerebellum?
Surge said herself - even while fighting Sonic - that after she kills him she was gonna kill Starline and Eggman. The entire point of keeping Starline alive in the first place was so she and kit could gather all 3 responsible parties in the same place at once so they could kill them all. She said this twice in two different issues.
Or because the specific circumstance put her near Whisper. Like
[...]
Anon, I fricking IMPLORE you, if your short-term memory is this terrible then just stop seething over the OC and reread the fricking comic.
Surge said herself that she wants to get revenge on the rest of the world as well. Her brainwashing is to make her want to destroy Sonic, not to destroy everyone else. That came from her.
Sonic, Starline and Eggman are simply the priorities - as the 3 most guilty parties to what happened to her.
said, they're on her shitlist but those 3 are her main goals.
2 years ago
Anonymous
She has as much reason to attack Whisper as she does any random person, fighting the constantly hiding introvert makes no sense when, by her logic, she should be blitzing towns.
Both can be true at once. The girl was lashing out in frustration and followed her programming in doing so. It was the path of least resistance and, frankly, her grievance with Sonic made sense. Her emotions and Starline's mental imperative fed off and amplified each other, turning Surge into a neon green ball of hate.
...Yes? I haven't brought Sonic once here. The idea of Surge and Kit still being under mind control is interesting to me because it hints that they're still "metal virus" underneath.
2 years ago
Anonymous
She IS in a town. You're judging the issue based off nothing but a cover yet even in the cover you can clearly see she is in a cityscape.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, google what a speed blitz is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, google the issue solicit. It says she's fighting Sonic's friends, with an 's', plural. She's not going specifically after Whisper but multiple people.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The synopsis even states she's specifically targeting cities and people close to Sonic to draw him out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I haven't brought Sonic once here
Her programming revolves around killing Sonic, so he's an inextricable part of this conversation
By that logic, anyone with a claws and access to Eggman is responsible. Sonic's arguably less responsible there, since he's done the job of putting him away. Anyone can be the executioner.
Few others can even face Eggman in the first place. Sonic's the one who squares up against Eggman on the regular, puts him down, and lets him crawl away to ruin lives another day. By weight of influence, if there is anyone to blame beyond Eggman, it's Sonic. I'm not even trying to say Sonic should be blamed, just that it makes logical sense for characters to do so.
I agree that Surge's assumption that her past self was an unwanted nobody is rather flawed and presumptuous. It also does not invalidate the fact that Sonic sparing Eggman time and time again led to Starline mindraping her into a living weapon. Her anger toward Sonic remains legitimate, at least in principle.
By that logic, anyone with a claws and access to Eggman is responsible. Sonic's arguably less responsible there, since he's done the job of putting him away. Anyone can be the executioner.
Sonic's responsible for having proactively protected Eggman, and resurrected Metal Sonic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon, I shouldn't need to explain to you that Sonic's philosophy is based around not caring what people do. He's not guarding Eggman or watching over him.
Anon, google the issue solicit. It says she's fighting Sonic's friends, with an 's', plural. She's not going specifically after Whisper but multiple people.
The only other "friend" fast enough to stop her from blitzing is Shadow and by Sega's own words, Shadow's not a friend.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Anon, I shouldn't need to explain to you that Sonic's philosophy is based around not caring what people do. He's not guarding Eggman or watching over him.
No, he pretty explicitly tells Surge that he won't allow her to (rightfully) kill Eggman or Starline because he "respects their freedom". He might not say it, but Sonic IS protecting Eggman by keeping anyone else from justifiably enacting actual punishment.
Sonic only doesn't care what you do so long as it doesn't impose on his beliefs of "muh freedom", and he extends this viewpoint even to irredeemable mass murderers and genocidal world dictators.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>he pretty explicitly tells Surge >He might not say it
Surge stated that her goal was to target not only him but everyone in the world. Sonic told her he won't let her hurt anyone. As usual you're ignoring the whole context to make what he said look as bad as possible.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Surge stated that her goal was to target not only him but everyone in the world.
That was the opening to the fight, where he's flippant and is trying to introduce himself. I'm referring to when he tells her that he wants the doctors to come around too and won't let her hurt them because reasons.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm referring to when he tells her that he wants the doctors to come around too and won't let her hurt them because reasons.
He never said anything about stopping her from specifically hurting the doctors, he framed his speech to everyone in the world which she was explicitly threatening.
2 years ago
Anonymous
"Everyone in the world" includes the Doctors by default, you realize? More than that, she specifically names both of them as the primary targets for her wrath after Sonic. They're far more important to her revenge than the rest of the world is, and logically by the context of the conversation, Surge being told that even the doctors should be given redemption by Sonic means that most of her anger is at him for letting them go. Likewise, Sonic is directly defending and excusing their actions by trying to stop her from getting even with them for what happened to her.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>"Everyone in the world" includes the Doctors by default, you realize?
Yes and you trying to turn the lens from the world to just Starline and Eggman is your attempt to paint his actions in a different way. Surge never says "I'm here for just Starline and Eggman", she says them 3 and the rest of the world are going to end just because people like him so he's going to stop her because that is her complete goal.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The only reason she brings up the world (notably after mentioning him, Eggman, and Starline in that order) is because the world praises the cycle of Eggman ruining the world and Sonic saving it to let him go to do it again. That's it. It's all very much through the lenses of her vitriol for the doctors and Sonic himself.
If the world wasn't so obsessed with this self-destructive cycle, she probably wouldnt have even cared.
[...]
Once upon a time Color’s story was beloved by the fanbase. Give it time, eventually the fanbase will turn on the movies. People already hate all the non-Eggman human scenes in the movies.
gays like
>The movies and fan content are good.
already hate them depsite not watching them. So I think we are already there, at least on here.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>depsite not watching them
I watched them and I hated them. I knew they would be shit from the beginning. Only reason people ignore all the bad shit is because of the model change, even though they are still the same live action/CGI shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The only reason she brings up the world (notably after mentioning him, Eggman, and Starline in that order) is because the world praises the cycle of Eggman ruining the world and Sonic saving it to let him go to do it again. That's it.
That doesn't change the fact that she threatened the world too. Her reasons don't matter, especially one like that.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Pretty easily disproven: Sonic spent time traveling all over the world while Eggman was in a village. Anyone who knew about him could have merc'd him with minimal effort. Your idea only works if you think everyone else is physically incapable of killing the guy.
yet he DID guard Eggman, and he did care enough about Metal to literally bring metal back from the dead and then set him free
...
Anon.
Anon anon anon.
It's getting to the point where I can tell it's you because of how CONSTANTLY you get words wrong.
Guarding =/= Guarded. It's a separate tense with a completely different meaning. You're arguing the latter while missing that I used the former. I'm not going to defend things I didn't say, I'm still bored with the Sonic side of this, and frankly, I've tried to keep you on track enough. Go be an illiterate tryhard somewhere else.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Anyone who knew about him could have merc'd him with minimal effort.
Who would? The only ones who knew about Tinker besides Sonic were the Chaotix, Shadow, and Rouge. And out of those who would want him dead, Shadow was dismissed, mocked and told to stand down and Espio had no intention of going against Vector simply to off Tinker.
2 years ago
Anonymous
...And? Your argument was about responsibility, not characterization. Is this the other guy?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Your argument
I never made any argument like that. I was calling you a moron for trying to argue that Sonic wasn't blatantly shielding Eggman from the consequences of his own actions. Take your meds. Maybe then you'll understand that there are multiple people calling you a dumbass.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then you're not the guy I was talking with, I've been talking about >Sonic's responsible for having proactively protected Eggman, and resurrected Metal Sonic.
Which is a responsibility argument. As keeping on topic is the mar
... You know what? I don't get anything out of this. You people are stupid. I'm out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sonic DID keep Shadow from killing Eggman/Tinker though. And he got Metal Sonic fixed and let him go to do whatever, despite the fact that he knows Metal is hardwired to be entirely loyal to Eggman.
Why the frick are you arguing against shit we explicitly observe over the course of the narrative?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Saying shit as it actually happens in the comic makes the character he lives vicariously through look bad. Many such cases.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no argument, only ad hominem
You can't argue in good faith that "S-S-Sonic's deep and wise philosophy is based around not caring what people do" when Sonic repeatedly and passionately does care what others do.
And cares about it so much that he actively interferes with what people do, to everyone's detriment. Protecting Eggman. Reviving Metal. Sonic cared enough to make both those decisions, and is accountable for the aftermath of both for being the self-centred moron who made both those decisions to interfere with the lives of everyone - for no other reason that it would trigger his fragile sensibilities if someone else does something he doesn't approve of.
That's beyond, "caring", that's being an oversensitive b***h who can't stomach the world not running how you want it to.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah, no shit. I don't care enough about you to post anything because you're moronic. Your statements are made on assumptions and you're constantly misinterpreting words. >claims ad hominem >Calls the other poster an oversensitive b***h who can't stomach the world not running how you want it to.
You're a moron and your illiteracy is causing problems. It's not an ad hominem argument, I honestly believe you're stupid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>had to delete and remake his post just to get the extra "own" on a person whose arguments he claims to not care about
Lmao.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Refer to
[...] >no argument
And the 'oversensitive b***h' part was referring to Sonic throwing a tantrum that others wanna do stuff he doesn't like. Maybe stop self-inserting on a 1-dimensional cerealbox character and it'll be easier for you to distinguish yourself, hmm?
An insult against Sonic the Hedgehog is not an insult against you. Stop projecting your insecure ego onto a 1-dimension cartoon character.
You have no argument, Sonic is an oversensitive crybaby b***h who is responsible for what Eggman and Metal did.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic is an oversensitive crybaby b***h
You can dislike him all you want but that is literally just plain wrong.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>throws a fit because other people wanna kill Eggman
I thought your narrative was "Sonic's deep philosophies are about not caring what others do"? Clearly if he's so upset by others doing their own thing that he fights them, he therefore does care about what others do, and greatly so
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not that anon, just pointing out that Sonic doesn't cry or whine or act like a little b***h. He does the exact opposite in all cases. Standing up to someone just as powerful as you to protect someone with the chance of redemption isn't really a 'bitch' move.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sonic literally got annoyed at Shadow for trying to preemptively off Tinker and avoid the return of Eggman entirely and mocked him over the course of the situation. Tails tried to warn him off from fixing Metal and got dismissed. Sonic himself gets annoyed at Surge for brushing him off, when he himself was actively ignoring her points and her increasing state of instability.
IDW Sonic isn't emotional in the way an actual person is because of Sega mandates, but he very clearly does get sensitive when people question his judgement or philosophy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok but that's still not being a sensitive crybaby b***h anon. That's called having your own morals and guidelines.
Like, this is Sonic the Hedgehog. Why WOULDN'T He be wienery and mocking people when that's been his entire personality since the 90s?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sonic didn't kick Merlina when she was down and her goals had failed, despite making himself the villain in her story. He was willing to hear her out and disagreed with her endgoal, but was also willing to inspire her to live for herself and enjoy the time her world still had.
IDW Sonic literally gets mad the instant anyone disagrees with his choices and insists he's in the right, despite hypocritically defending the freedoms of people who work solely to steal the freedom of everybody else. He goes from simply wienery into being an actual bonafide psychopath.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic literally gets mad the instant anyone disagrees with his choices
Now you're just making shit up to suit your own needs. Sonic didn't get mad at Surge at all during the entire fight. He was at the most disappointed in her, while also just having fun fighting.
I just went back and read through the comic and there is not a single panel where sonic is "mad" at Surge.
Stop making shit up.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic didn't get mad at Surge at all during the entire fight.
His face when she doubles down and states that "Nobody is looking for her" radiates clear annoyance. Or at least as much as he's allowed to be. Stop being autistic. You do not need to be a frothing berserker shouting obscenities to be mad or frustrated at someone.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Disappointment is not frustration anon.
And also taking one single panel of one single expression and claiming he was like that the entire fight just shows how disingenuous you are about all this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Seems pretty buttmad to me.
Imagine shitting your diaper as hard as Sonic does just because not everyone in the world agrees with what you want.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Seems more annoyed at Shadow for wanting to kill someone now completely harmless. "Buttmad" isn't what I would call just being himself and doing what he does for everyone.
The fact you're calling it "shitting his diaper" once again shows you are not here to actually argue about this in any genuine way. You just want to cause shit as
>Now that the dust has settled
Every time someone says this I mentally picture some loser desperately trying to kick the dust back up for attention.
pointed out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not that anon, there are multiple people calling you stupid. Getting mad the instant anyone disagrees with his beliefs is the shining symptom of being oversensitive
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Getting mad the instant anyone disagrees with his beliefs
Shadow is genuinely trying to kill someone in that scene. Like that anon said, you're being disingenuous.
2 years ago
Anonymous
yet he DID guard Eggman, and he did care enough about Metal to literally bring metal back from the dead and then set him free
Both can be true at once. The girl was lashing out in frustration and followed her programming in doing so. It was the path of least resistance and, frankly, her grievance with Sonic made sense. Her emotions and Starline's mental imperative fed off and amplified each other, turning Surge into a neon green ball of hate.
The Joker shoots a 6-year old girl in the forehead in front of their parents, then makes fun of them while they stare at her splattered corpse:
Batman returns Joker back to Arkham, where he is detained for as long as they can possibly hold him
Eggman shoots a 6-year old girl in the forehead in front of their parents, then makes fun of them while they stare at her splattered corpse: Sonic throws a little-b***h tantrum over “muh freedom” and “muh spirit of the wind”, starts crying and hitting the child’s father when the father tries to shoot Eggman, then carries Eggman away to safety and returns him back to his HQ far far away from the authorities
>Eggman tries to shoot a 6-year old girl in the forehead but Sonic races in and destroys the weapon or mecha he was using, Eggman flies off, and Sonic leave.
ftfy
Except when he does get away with committing a crime, as he did many times in IDW, Sonic will throw a fit and protect Eggman from Eggman's victims, for no other reason than it would upset Sonic personally
>Except when he does get away with committing a crime, as he did many times in IDW, Sonic will throw a fit and protect Eggman from Eggman's victims
Seems like you've invented a narrative in your head. In IDW, the only time Sonic protected Eggman was when he was Tinker.
>the only time Sonic protected Eggman was the time he protected Eggman
Thank you, anon. Very enlightening.
He also had Tails rebuild and release Metal Sonic, to boot. And it was his decision to send the Zeti back home, which even Zavok rightfully called him an idiot for.
Nice dodging your incorrect narrative. >He also had Tails rebuild and release Metal Sonic
Repaired him enough to move, deweaponized him, in a world where Eggman was gone. Starline taking Tinker and pushing him back enough to Eggman for Metal to trigger his memories was not something anyone saw coming. >And it was his decision to send the Zeti back home
Their home which is an isolated planetoid in the sky, functioning as a more effective prison than a regular one would. Only reason they got off it in the first place was because of Starline and the Warp Topaz. Zavok was calling him an idiot for not killing them, not about jailing them.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no argument
Sonic saved Eggman from Shadow. Eggman caused Metal Virus. Sonic is autistically incapable of admitting to anyone it was a mistake to save Eggman, and would do it again.
Bringing Metal back to life in spite of the dangers he could cause down the way, against even Tails own protests when Tails is the one rebuilding him, makes Sonic personally responsible for anything Metal would do when it was Sonic who insisted they revive Metal
Zavok's gotten off Lost World more times than he's escaped prison - which was also only thanks to Starline.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no argument
Just because you can't refute it, doesn't make it not an argument. >Sonic saved Eggman from Shadow
Sonic saved Mr. Tinker from Shadow. What happened after was the fault of Starline. >Metal
With no one capable of repairing him he was never going to be a real threat. >Zavok's gotten off Lost World more times than he's escaped prison
Only time he's gotten off was in IDW. Runners and TSR aren't canon to it for obvious reasons.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You haven't given any argument. Sonic protected Eggman when someone else tried to kill him. Shadow warned that Tinker was gonna revert, and Sonic protected him anyway. Sonic was, by every definition of the term, wrong for protecting him. >he was never going to be a real threat
Yet he was, and did. Sonic was once again, mistaken for literally bringing Metal back from the dead - waiting for the next opportunity ot be fixed and cause more suffering because of Sonic's chronic stupidity and selfishness >TSR aren't canon
Provide even a single source for this.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You haven't given any argument.
Like I said before, just because you can't counter it doesn't make it not an argument. >Sonic protected Eggman when someone else tried to kill him.
Sonic protected Mr. Tinker. You keep changing that to Eggman because you know the context makes a difference. The Chaotix, Rouge, the villagers and even Shadow agreed to his decision at the time. >Shadow warned that Tinker was gonna revert, and Sonic protected him anyway.
He did not, he wanted to take down Tinker even if he never reverted. After confirming Eggmanland was harmless, Shadow left without any more fuss. >Yet he was, and did.
Because of Starline. >Provide even a single source for this.
IDW frames it that Zavok hasn't met Eggman since Lost World yet TSR has him working for Eggman for no reason despite having a kill on-site goal for Eggman. Use your brain.
2 years ago
Anonymous
People agreeing with you does not make you right. Sonic protected Eggman - or "Tinker" if that's honestly the best defence you have of your self-insert, lol - against warning that something would cause him to revert. And he did revert. Guess what? Sonic was wrong for making Shadow spare him, and those lives are on his hands. >IDW frames it that Zavok hasn't met Eggman since Lost World
when?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic protected Eggman - or "Tinker" if that's honestly the best defence you have of your self-insert
It is literally the reason why Sonic and the others left him alone. If you can't accept the basic facts of the story then that's on you. >against warning that something would cause him to revert
No one warned him on that. Shadow wanted to punish him simply because of his past deeds. When he did his own check on Tinker, he left without pushing the issue any longer even though he certainly could. >when?
When Starline was researching them, the events of TSR never came up and Zavok constantly goes on about getting revenge on Eggman which is completely incongruous with working for Eggman like he did in TSR.
Anon, I fricking IMPLORE you, if your short-term memory is this terrible then just stop seething over the OC and reread the fricking comic.
Surge said herself that she wants to get revenge on the rest of the world as well. Her brainwashing is to make her want to destroy Sonic, not to destroy everyone else. That came from her.
Sonic, Starline and Eggman are simply the priorities - as the 3 most guilty parties to what happened to her.
>no relationshit drama >only a few OCs, focus was always on Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy >Sonic is competent and endearingly obnoxious >Knux is likable and competent >echidna bullshit limited to one villain >crazy dimension-hopping and pirates and cool new villains like Brutus and Metamorphia >they actually try to capture Robotnik >based Grimer is actually loyal, unlike Snively and Gayline
I won't say it was groundbreaking, but it was fun and imaginative in a gonzo way, something that IDW and Archie never really managed.
>no relationshit drama
No characters to give relationships to.
>only a few OCs, focus was always on Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy
There were entire stories dedicated to Shortfuse or other OC's.
>Sonic is competent and endearingly obnoxious
Debatable, and no respectively.
>Knux is likable and competent
Knuckles screws up several times.
>crazy dimension-hopping and pirates and cool new villains like Brutus and Metamorphia
Archie also had "crazy dimension-hopping" and original villains. So I'm not sure what your point is beyond "Fleetway good anything else bad".
>they actually try to capture Robotnik
Robotnik was outright put in jail in Archie, X and a number of other continuities. Only IDW and Modern let him go free to do whatever.
>No characters to give relationships to.
You just named several. Sonic, Knux, Amy, Tekno, etc.
>There were entire stories dedicated to Shortfuse or other OC's.
Fair enough, but we didn't have five different whiners stealing the plot from an already-bloated cast in every arc. Hell, the Chaotix didn't even show up that much.
>Debatable, and no respectively.
You people love to whine about what an butthole he is, but his dickery mostly just meant being brusque with his friends. You act like he beat Tails regularly or some shit.
>Knuckles screws up several times.
He doesn't trust Eggman five times in a row like a moron, and he flies the Floating Island like a mech, trounces Dr. Zachary and several other villains, and doesn't waste all his screentime on his abusive dad and a Cabal of Secret Grandpas.
>Archie also had "crazy dimension-hopping" and original villains. So I'm not sure what your point is beyond "Fleetway good anything else bad".
Yes, but the focus was always on some stupid shit like Sally slapping Sonic, or Knuckles' butthole ancestors, or the shitty Acorn monarchy, or a million other stupid things that made Archie a chore to read. Fleetway's focus was on adventure and entertainment, not endless worldbuilding and drama.
>Robotnik was outright put in jail in Archie, X and a number of other continuities. Only IDW and Modern let him go free to do whatever.
I wasn't talking about X, I was talking about Archie and IDW. Sure, Eggman is killed and driven crazy in Archie, but he's resurrected/escapes like five issues later. Dr. Finitevus probably did more to stop him by wrecking the Egg Grapes with Knuxerjak than any of the heroes did.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You just named several. Sonic, Knux, Amy, Tekno, etc.
Oh right, I forgot that Amy and Tekno were pretty gay for each other. Thanks for reminding me.
>You people love to whine about what an butthole he is, but his dickery mostly just meant being brusque with his friends.
What is emotional abuse for $350, Alex? Even ignoring this, you had him treating Tails like shit for saving his life from the Drakkon and the whole "Freedom Fighters actually start visibly doing better emotionally and together when Sonic is away" thing.
>He doesn't trust Eggman five times in a row like a moron, and he flies the Floating Island like a mech, trounces Dr. Zachary and several other villains, and doesn't waste all his screentime on his abusive dad and a Cabal of Secret Grandpas.
Knuckles literally faslls for several basic tricks and nearly gets himself killed like a dumbass in most of his solo stories. What the FRICK are you talking about?
>Yes, but the focus was always on some stupid shit >lists shit that wasnt even integral to any main plot
If you'd brought up say, the fricking Naugus thing or DESTINY you might have had a point. Instead you outed yourself as having not read anything in Archie beyond the most memeable sequences.
>Fleetwaygays literally cannot justify a thread on their own.
Because Cinemaphile has shit taste and only talks about things it can bicker or shitpost about. You know why nobody makes threads about Gargoyles? Because it was actually good, and so there were no moronic arguments to be had about shipping or how Goliath should just kill the Joker or whatever.
>comparing Fleetway to Gargoyles
You are a Chris-chan tier disingenuous schizo.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Oh right, I forgot that Amy and Tekno were pretty gay for each other. Thanks for reminding me.
Whoop-de-doo, they still had adventures and shit instead of slapping eachother and having hurt/comfort fics about an evil octopus OC.
>What is emotional abuse for $350, Alex? Even ignoring this, you had him treating Tails like shit for saving his life from the Drakkon and the whole "Freedom Fighters actually start visibly doing better emotionally and together when Sonic is away" thing.
He could be a c**t, sure, but he wasn't actively cuckolding Tails with Fiona or letting Eggman escape again and again. I'll take an effective hero who's a bit of an ass.
>Knuckles literally faslls for several basic tricks and nearly gets himself killed like a dumbass in most of his solo stories. What the FRICK are you talking about?
He got captured from time to time, but he always broke free and kicked the bad guys' ass. He brokered peace with those tree people and those triceratops ghosts as well.
>If you'd brought up say, the fricking Naugus thing or DESTINY you might have had a point. Instead you outed yourself as having not read anything in Archie beyond the most memeable sequences.
Fair point about DESTINY, I forgot to mention that, but the Naugus thing is just part of the shitty Acorn monarchy, like Max's dickery and Sally's mood-swinging and overall ineffectuality. And you can't just say that Knuckles' boring-ass ancestors didn't figure into any main plot. They WERE the main plot of his Archie series.
Fleetway to Gargoyles >You are a Chris-chan tier disingenuous schizo.
It just came to mind as something I liked. I'm not "comparing" them beyond saying I liked both, what the frick are you on about?
Thats entirely because Fleetwaygays literally cannot justify a thread on their own. They'll always open by shitting on Archie or IDW because they know Fleetway can't hold water in any argument otherwise.
>Fleetwaygays literally cannot justify a thread on their own.
Because Cinemaphile has shit taste and only talks about things it can bicker or shitpost about. You know why nobody makes threads about Gargoyles? Because it was actually good, and so there were no moronic arguments to be had about shipping or how Goliath should just kill the Joker or whatever.
>You just named several. Sonic, Knux, Amy, Tekno, etc.
Oh right, I forgot that Amy and Tekno were pretty gay for each other. Thanks for reminding me.
>You people love to whine about what an butthole he is, but his dickery mostly just meant being brusque with his friends.
What is emotional abuse for $350, Alex? Even ignoring this, you had him treating Tails like shit for saving his life from the Drakkon and the whole "Freedom Fighters actually start visibly doing better emotionally and together when Sonic is away" thing.
>He doesn't trust Eggman five times in a row like a moron, and he flies the Floating Island like a mech, trounces Dr. Zachary and several other villains, and doesn't waste all his screentime on his abusive dad and a Cabal of Secret Grandpas.
Knuckles literally faslls for several basic tricks and nearly gets himself killed like a dumbass in most of his solo stories. What the FRICK are you talking about?
>Yes, but the focus was always on some stupid shit >lists shit that wasnt even integral to any main plot
If you'd brought up say, the fricking Naugus thing or DESTINY you might have had a point. Instead you outed yourself as having not read anything in Archie beyond the most memeable sequences.
[...] >comparing Fleetway to Gargoyles
You are a Chris-chan tier disingenuous schizo.
Gargoyles is overrated as frick, villain end up being a literal evil clone of the protagonist, Goliath is the only Gargoyle with any kind of relevant development, nothing about their species society makes sense.
>comic writers have a hero kill a villain or have them at the pivotal moment of killing them >it always spirals off into that "hero going insane and becoming a villain" or "you do this, you're no better then they are"
If only New Jersey had Capital Punishment and the police knew the difference between a man suffering thru a mental illness and a psychopath relishing in mayhem and put him in real jail, Maybe Batman didn't have to kill the Joker and let the justice system do it for him.
Probably because of how many times Sonic Team and assorted writers have failed to make it work. Per my tastes there have been successes, but then I'm a shameless SA2 fan.
>boundaries >actively stopping other people from saving the world by killing Eggman is "boundaries"
It's not. It's Sonic interfering in other people's boundaries.
Sonic really is just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he. It seems like every one step forward is like five steps backwards no matter what the franchise does.
The movies and fan content are good. Everything else? A game of Russian roulette in the extreme.
Once upon a time Color’s story was beloved by the fanbase. Give it time, eventually the fanbase will turn on the movies. People already hate all the non-Eggman human scenes in the movies.
I never liked the Colors story, and the Sonic movies' appeal extends to normies. Sonic fans are impossible to please because as a group they are far too granular.
>Star Wars
The one where Luke refused to kill both Sidious and Vader even though they were exploding entire planets and killing billions just to show off how evil they are?
Luke took down Vader and Sidious was unarmed, but then he said literally "IF I KILL YOU I WILL BE JUST LIKE YOU" and threw his weapon away while the empire was nuking his friends with their giant weapon used to kill billions of civilians a few months ago
I don't recall Luke saying anything about not offing the Emperor, just that he wouldn't get baited into killing his dad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sidious was right next to him, why do you think he threw his weapon away rather than running at him? Nevermind the fact sparing Vader is just as bad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sparing Vader turned out to be the right call for both Luke and the galaxy at large (until Disney took the helm at least). I'm sure Luke could have tried giving the Emperor a whack but doubt it would have ended much differently. Not sure if Luke threw the lightsaber because he knew he had no chance against the Emperor or because he felt defiant and just wanted to flip the bird.
>no argument
And the 'oversensitive b***h' part was referring to Sonic throwing a tantrum that others wanna do stuff he doesn't like. Maybe stop self-inserting on a 1-dimensional cerealbox character and it'll be easier for you to distinguish yourself, hmm?
>Ian Flynn stated that the events of Team Sonic Racing happened off screen at some point just before the "Zeti Hunt" arc. (BumbleKast for May 18th, 2022, minute 23:30)
That question was about the characters having the cars from the game, not the canoncity of TSR. This one is actually about that:
50:34 >Q:Since Vector's car from Team Sonic Racing appears in issue 48, are we to assume that the events of Team Sonic Racing have happened in the comic's continuity? If so, when could it have possibly taken place?
Ian: I dunno, Pre-Forces?
Kyle: Sure, sure why not? Whatever, wherever you want it to.
Ian: Or if you say since it came out after Forces therefore it must happen after Forces, then somewhere after Metal Virus saga.
Sonic adapting an overly smug Batman-like philosophy for dealing with his enemies despite the fact his enemy at the time, Surge, was dangerously unstable and lobbing debatebly-valid accusations at him for everything bad that happens in the world, including her brainwashing and reprogramming by a homosexual duck, being his fault for not finishing his enemies.
Villain has her life ruined because of Eggman/Starline
Blames Sonic for protecting Eggman/Starline earlier on in the comic
Sonic's response is basically "Well I think Eggman is gonna redeem himself one day if I keep saving him, and I don't care how many people he hurts in the process before that happens:
Cue Sonicgays jumping to make it seem like their fave character is somehow in the right for this and most everyone else doing "Why doesn't Batman kill The Joker" except with Sonic
Sonic is attacked by Surge, a female tenrec who has been brainwashed and cybernetically altered into a killing machine by Dr. Starline. She is pissed at Sonic because he kept letting Eggman and Starline escape, and so she vows to kill all three of them, holding them responsible for her being made into a monster.
They fight, and Sonic is a bit dismissive of her anger, and restates his commitment to giving villains a second chance. This pisses off Surge even more, and she vows to burn down Sonic and his ideals and "dance on the ashes."
Sonic beats her, and now Anons are arguing about whether or not Surge was right and Sonic should've killed/imprisoned Eggman and Starline.
Part me of really wants Sega to attempt "damage control" on this, demanding Ian (and maybe Evan, I don't know if she's doing it too) to stop calling out attention to this "Sonic's the reason why bad shit happens" plot that can't go anywhere, because it's making Sonic look bad.
The only reason Sonic is even getting written like this is because Sega literally approved it. Even if they did decide to double-back (which they never will) Ian wouldn't care, since he's no longer in charge and doing writing for Frontiers and Evan would just put in more stuff with Belle and other OC's instead.
>I doubt Sega is aware of the specifics involved since Ian only has to submit the broad strokes of what he's writing to them.
Sega gets the whole package including the script. They made revisions to it before so no, it's not a case of being ignorant.
I'd rather the opposite. If Flynn/Evans are trying to stealth-strong arm Sega into letting them do some actual character development, more power to them.
Anon, just read the comic yourself and do not fall for completely biased summaries.
Form your own God damned opinion.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Sonic-the-Hedgehog-2018/Issue-50?id=200911
Villain has her life ruined because of Eggman/Starline
Blames Sonic for protecting Eggman/Starline earlier on in the comic
Sonic's response is basically "Well I think Eggman is gonna redeem himself one day if I keep saving him, and I don't care how many people he hurts in the process before that happens:
Cue Sonicgays jumping to make it seem like their fave character is somehow in the right for this and most everyone else doing "Why doesn't Batman kill The Joker" except with Sonic
Sonic is attacked by Surge, a female tenrec who has been brainwashed and cybernetically altered into a killing machine by Dr. Starline. She is pissed at Sonic because he kept letting Eggman and Starline escape, and so she vows to kill all three of them, holding them responsible for her being made into a monster.
They fight, and Sonic is a bit dismissive of her anger, and restates his commitment to giving villains a second chance. This pisses off Surge even more, and she vows to burn down Sonic and his ideals and "dance on the ashes."
Sonic beats her, and now Anons are arguing about whether or not Surge was right and Sonic should've killed/imprisoned Eggman and Starline.
Villain has her life ruined because of Eggman/Starline
Blames Sonic for protecting Eggman/Starline earlier on in the comic
Sonic's response is basically "Well I think Eggman is gonna redeem himself one day if I keep saving him, and I don't care how many people he hurts in the process before that happens:
Cue Sonicgays jumping to make it seem like their fave character is somehow in the right for this and most everyone else doing "Why doesn't Batman kill The Joker" except with Sonic
It's a kid's comic so killing is off the table. Best bet would be the imprisonment option but the issue with Sonic as a franchise is that there are no villains outside Eggman. All original villains are either connected to Eggman, released by Eggman or simply not interesting enough to hold water.
Knuckles strikes me as too honorable of a guy to do something like that. Putting Eggman in traction to keep him out of trouble for a while? That I could see.
Knuckles probably wouldn't kill him, but would definitely imprison him for a good while. Tails, at least in IDW, is oddly rather blaise about seemingly shutting off Kit's vital functions and notably DIDN'T agree for or against leaving Eggman around or trying to redeem him and Metal. So I think he'd be more likely to off him given the chance. There's also the fact he used some pretty explicitly lethal weaponry to wipe out the Battle Birds, so it's not like he's against it inherently.
Shadow and Omega would 100% kill him and are likely only kept from doing so because he escapes/Rouge is there to kerp them on a leash.
That sounds about right. Rouge doesn't strike me as especially viscious and wouldn't be keen to play assassin, but recognizes that some thinks need to happen and hey Shadow can handle the dirty work right?
I try not to count it cause it's Mickey Mouse violence. Yeah Tails fries them with napalm and they're charred and they fall offscreen, and one of them has his head smooshed by a rock, but I just have trouble counting that when it's so obviously slapstick.They've never been mentioned since, to boot.
It's slapstick, but that's mostly because it's a game. Pretty certain he actually killed them pretty fricking dead there. You just can't depict the logical implications of his massacre of the Battle Birds because it's still Sonic media and they're not going to go that far visually. Sort of like how Maria obviously dies, but we never see the body or the actual results of the shot directly.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sort of like how Maria obviously dies, but we never see the body or the actual results of the shot directly.
They explicitly say that Maria was killed. That's not an accurate comparison.
Bad for business. Also because Rouge, at least in the games, probably isn't the sort to go straight to murder. It's more fun to play keep away with the emeralds from Eggman anyhow.
What you consider a design flaw, Starline considers a control feature. Likely in the event Kitsunami ever became uncontrollable and he didn't have the glove to reboot him, just turn off his pack after he runs out. Problem solved.
Yeah, but Tails doesn't even really react in the way you'd expect to if you'd just accidentally killed someone. He basically goes "Oh no...Anyway." and goes on with what he was doing. Doesn't even try to restart him either, he just carries what is effectively his corpse back to Sonic.
It's a very casual reaction to what is basically murder. Sure, it fits with the fandom's interpretation of Tails, but it's just weird to see in official media.
He didn't know Kit was passed out at the point where he did it. All he says there is "oh no, I hope I didn't shut off his vital functions!" and that's it. It doesn't read like he was especially worried if he actually killed him or just knocked him out, is the thing.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I really do not see Tails as someone who'd be so flippant about accidentally killing a guy he was just trying to talk down. He's a kid, not a stone cold sociopath.
You're exaggerating. When Kit failed to respond he immediately worried if he shut down any vital functions. If Tails thought it did he would have done something instead of carrying him later on.
>When Kit failed to respond he immediately worried if he shut down any vital functions.
You don't just go " Oh no" if you think you accidentally offed someone.
>If Tails thought it did he would have done something instead of carrying him later on.
Headcanon.
I really do not see Tails as someone who'd be so flippant about accidentally killing a guy he was just trying to talk down. He's a kid, not a stone cold sociopath.
This is the same Tails who waged a singlehanded war of extermination against the Battle Birds. He's a kid, but he also has a body count involving napalm bombs and more.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your evidence that he actually killed any of them being...? Also aren't the old 2D games considered to be a separate universe now? It wouldn't matter much either way, given how inconsistent Miles of Murder would be with the other games.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Your evidence that he actually killed any of them being...?
Not him, but even ignoring that he shoots them with napalm, with them getting charred and falling offscreen, you have a few moments where he causes them to get crushed by rocks or environmental hazards. It's slapstick, but the fact that he wipes them all out and does nothing to help even when their Armada starts crashing and burning into open ocean makes it kind of clear that he fricked them up.
>Also aren't the old 2D games considered to be a separate universe now?
The events of Classic still happened in the Modern universe. The only thing that changed both into separate timelines was Generations causing Classic Eggman to deviate and build the Hard-Boiled Heavies instead of doing his normal plots, which made a divergence. Both shared the same history until then.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's slapstick
To me, this invalidates any concern that Tails the 10 year-old child is actually killing people.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>post proof and explains why it isn't visceral because this shit is still for kids >this invalidates the argument that the game for kids with Tails using literal napalm to wipe out the armada won't obviously depict what happens when he does that
Concession accepted.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not him, Tails is 8.
But to be fair even in slapstick games they do kill enemies. Kirby kills almost all his enemies. Old game creators just kinda assumed you wanted to kill the badguys before media started getting all moralhomosexual.
[...] >That's not an accurate comparison.
It is. Because it adheres to the same principle you homosexual's use in these arguments; no obvious blood or gore? Not dead. Same reasoning you'd use to dismiss the Battle Birds getting merc'd.
Hell, fricking EVERYONE is saying that the gay duck is dead because that's the obvious creative intent And was directly confirmed by Ian, but you still have morons saying he's alive because there wasn't a graphic corpse shown.
Sorry, Tails the *8* year-old mass murderer is both silly on its own and inconsistent with portrayals in pretty much every other piece of Sonic media. So going to keep saying it's absurd.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Don’t the cast all try and kill Eggman in the classic games?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes.
Bullshit. All companies like Hasbro and Sega do not give a rat's ass about what you do with their IPs otherwise they would have ripped the contract immediately and constantly hired and rehired new people who are actually competent.
Sega very much does care. It's why the mandates exist.
2 years ago
Anonymous
NO the fricking mandates make no sense if I caught you writing my characters this badly I'd fire you on the spot.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Corporate decisions can be and too often are incredibly moronic. Hell, look at all the awfully written sequels like Jurassic World Dominion or the more recent Terminator films. So long as they think it will make money, to the suits the writing is good. Plain and simple.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tails literally pilots weapons of mass destruction in the games and has an arm-cannon in Battle. It perfectly fits with his early identity as the plucky but powerful sidekick. It doesn't fit post-Colors Tails, but that isn't a character so who the frick cares.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The enemy Tails faces on the regular are robots. Some of them have animals inside that need freeing. He's not going happy go lucky blood-spattered school shooter with those machines.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tails isn't going to kill them because they're innocent creatures. The BBA were destructive, genocidal conquerors threatening his home. There's a difference.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tails isn't going to kill anyone, because he is a child.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Tails isn't going to kill anyone
Every single Battle Bird.
>he is a child
So is Sonic. Didn't keep him from killing the shit out of Solaris or trapping Erazor forever in what might as well have been hell.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Elise killed Solaris, who wasn't even a person in any conventional sense, just one big destructive force made out of a smaller destructive force and a vindictive butthole. Erazor was an immortal genie and not dead which is going to be a step too far for a child.
>Battle Birds
It was Looney Tunes, get over it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Elise killed Solaris, who wasn't even a person in any conventional sense, just one big destructive force made out of a smaller destructive force and a vindictive butthole.
Mephiles was close enough to a person to communicate and was the mind of Solaris, and Sonic directly contributed to offing it.
>Erazor was an immortal genie and not dead which is going to be a step too far for a child.
Trapping someone forever is arguably worse than killing them.
>It was Looney Tunes, get over it.
Napalm isn't Looney Tunes, autismo.
He killed Cosmo per her request and broke down over it because he is a child. Tails never knowingly tried to kill anyone.
He broke down because he loved Cosmo and didn't want to lose her. If he could kill Dark Oak without losing her, he'd have gladly done so.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sonic directly contributed to offing it
He contributed to beating it. Elise is the one who blew it out and there was literally no other way to save the world otherwise.
>Trapping someone forever is arguably worse than killing them.
Not to a child.
>Napalm isn't Looney Tunes, autismo.
But getting blown up with dynamite, eating buckshot, and getting set on fire in *other* ways are all on the other side of that big red line. Of course, makes total sense.
>If he could kill Dark Oak without losing her, he'd have gladly done so
Headcanon
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tails was trying to kill Dark Oak in both his 1st and 2nd phases. He killed 2 Metarex just trying to off Oak in phase 1. He was gonna try and kill Oak in phase 3 as well before Cosmo stepped up to die, even though that meant Sonic and Shadow would probably be killed trying.
Cosmo only had to die in phase 3, after 3 entire episodes of trying to kill Oak.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Headcanon
moron
[...]
Dark Oak (Lucas)
Pale Bayleaf
Black Narcissus
Yellow Zelkova (assisted)
Red Pine (accidental but was dogfighting with him anyway)
Metarex Carrer
Metarex Spike
Gillmans
Jumpee
Crystal
Kingape
Kingape’s brother
Deserd (attempted, Shadow finished him off)
Metarex Viper boss
Cosmo
All of whom were confirmed in-series to be alive.
Tails decapitated the first 3 while they screamed in pain.
Tails broke down over Cosmo because he loved her. All the other cast, including 18 year old Rouge, were also crying over her death. You are being disingenuous.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Tails killed 15 people in X, all of whom had names.
The series does not treat him as a child, their ages are largely arbitrary.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then provide names. Thead's going to be archived soon anyway.
2 years ago
Anonymous
He killed Cosmo per her request and broke down over it because he is a child. Tails never knowingly tried to kill anyone.
Dark Oak (Lucas)
Pale Bayleaf
Black Narcissus
Yellow Zelkova (assisted)
Red Pine (accidental but was dogfighting with him anyway)
Metarex Carrer
Metarex Spike
Gillmans
Jumpee
Crystal
Kingape
Kingape’s brother
Deserd (attempted, Shadow finished him off)
Metarex Viper boss
Cosmo
All of whom were confirmed in-series to be alive.
Tails decapitated the first 3 while they screamed in pain.
Tails broke down over Cosmo because he loved her. All the other cast, including 18 year old Rouge, were also crying over her death. You are being disingenuous.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Damn, X Tails has a hitlist
2 years ago
Anonymous
Boy took no shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Got any clips?
2 years ago
Anonymous
He killed Cosmo per her request and broke down over it because he is a child. Tails never knowingly tried to kill anyone.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Kids are cruel, anon. and I'm very in touch with my inner child!
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not him, Tails is 8.
But to be fair even in slapstick games they do kill enemies. Kirby kills almost all his enemies. Old game creators just kinda assumed you wanted to kill the badguys before media started getting all moralhomosexual.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Sort of like how Maria obviously dies, but we never see the body or the actual results of the shot directly.
They explicitly say that Maria was killed. That's not an accurate comparison.
>That's not an accurate comparison.
It is. Because it adheres to the same principle you homosexual's use in these arguments; no obvious blood or gore? Not dead. Same reasoning you'd use to dismiss the Battle Birds getting merc'd.
Hell, fricking EVERYONE is saying that the gay duck is dead because that's the obvious creative intent And was directly confirmed by Ian, but you still have morons saying he's alive because there wasn't a graphic corpse shown.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It is. Because it adheres to the same principle
No it doesn't. Nothing ever says or suggests that Tails killed the BBA, but SA2/ShtH goes out of it's way to conform that Maria is dead and was killed by GUN. Her death is a relevant plot beat device. It's nowhere near ambiguous.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Headcanon >the character not being OOC is headcanon
Tails - Not enough evidence for either side, Tails hasn't really seen enough action away from Sonic to tell what his personality is like on solo quests. Tails Adventure kinda implied he's ok using lethal force, but I wouldn't rely on that
Knuckles - No. Happened in X, after the S3&K adaptations. Even when he's not tricked and Eggman fricks him over badly he still doesn't try to kill Eggman. All he really cares about is "muh emeroowds" I guess so that makes sense he isn't gonna go out of his way for revenge
Amy - ehh, leaning towards no. She's the typically sweet but bossy girl character, can't see those two things ever fitting
Blaze - Yes. Can and has tried, many times.
Shadow - Yes, obviously. He actually did it once, or at least in one route of his game
Omega - hahahaha
Chaotix - No. Vector's too nice, Charmy's too innocent and Espio's just an edgy chuuni, he doesn't have the bite
Rouge - Yes. Don't forget she tried killing Chris like 3 times in X. And Flying Dog pilot is 100% dead
Big/Cream - No, too stupid/naive
Babylons - Yes. They're villains.
>Tails
I feel like Tails would be pragmatic enough to acknowledge the value in offing Eggman yet moral enough to feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea.
I think it's mostly circumstantial. Like, say on a normal day, Sonic is taking a nap and it's up to Tails to stop Eggman and he does. Of course he wouldn't try to fry the egg for good but I could maybe see him trying to detain him just so that he doesn't hurt more people in the long run.
Now, it's a special occasion where Sonic is no longer around and Eggman is the reason? If he gets his shit together and decided to fight, I could totally see him trying to end Eggman for good. Honestly, I could also see him feeling conflicted about it because it's probable that Tails would believe that Sonic never wanted to see his little bro be a killer.
Using Tails Adventure should be on the table, given it should have still occurred in the Modern timeline. It's more likely that Tails has simply emulated enough of Sonic and his other friends morals that despite understanding the logical and pragmatic benefits to killing Eggman, he just won't do it if not pushed to.
I try not to count it cause it's Mickey Mouse violence. Yeah Tails fries them with napalm and they're charred and they fall offscreen, and one of them has his head smooshed by a rock, but I just have trouble counting that when it's so obviously slapstick.They've never been mentioned since, to boot.
Member when Sonic was going to let King Shahryar fall to his death because he thought he was eggman and had to be begged by Shahra to save him?
Member in lost world when sonic took eggmans backpack thing and let him fall to his death?
Gamenic does not give a frick if eggman lives or dies and wont save him unless someone begs the frick out of him
I don't get why the story is deliberately poking holes in Sonic's rather reasonable moral choices.
Obviously killing lobotomized Eggman would be wrong (backed up by Shadow thinknig it was right, and he's always wrong in this).
But then the story goes out of it's way to punish Sonic for making the call as if it's trying to say something or bring up some sort of moral dilemma when there really wasn't one.
Now the fanbase is trying to treat this like it was the trolley dilemma when it really was not, and only outside circumstances actually enabled Eggman to return as a villain.
It bothers me how some anon insist Sonic should let crazy good Eggman be killed rather than in any story where he is still evil and aware of his actions.
Not executing amnesiac Eggman was a decent and defensible moral choice. The problem is that letting him go every other time becomes less and less heroic every time Eggman hurts someone else. Now I think that's an interesting debate to have, even as the comic refuses to commit. This isn't a case of poking holes in a moral choice, it's recognizing that those holes exist in the first place.
>I don't get why the story is deliberately poking holes in Sonic's rather reasonable moral choices.
Nothing wrong with challenging a character's beliefs. The point is to either have them reflect and change or stick to them with renewed resolve. Sonic went for the latter after his moment of doubt in 24 and being challenged again in Zeti Hunt where he finally established that he's not going to be shaken again. As long as he has proof that enemies can become allies, he will always have a foundation to base his beliefs on.
>Nothing wrong with challenging a character's beliefs.
It's failing to actually challenge them though. It feels like a phoned in attempt when there was obviously only one option.
Even if Shadow had done it, it would have been particularly cruel by his standards, comparable to the non-canon 'bad' ends of Shadow the Hedgehog.
This isn't really challenging Sonic's beliefs the way it might intend to.
>It's failing to actually challenge them though. It feels like a phoned in attempt when there was obviously only one option.
There were multiple options but everyone at the time believed it was wrong to punish someone who was functionally a different person. They could have just locked him up forever.
It was very much expressed that them leaving him alone wasn't only a moral choice, it was better for the town he was helping as well. I seemed like both the practical and moral choice.
It would also be practical to detain him anyway. Shadow said that losing your memories doesn't make you not dangerous and even Sonic agreed with that. This was just seen as the best possible choice morally, but it was never the only good choice. Maybe if they had detained Tinker, the MV wouldn't have happened. It would still happen, for a variety of reasons, one of them being Starline's warp topaz.
I remember during the Zombot arc a lot of people were postulating that after the story ended Sonic's reputation would be damaged for some time, mostly brought on by one panel of an unhappy despondant Cream walking past him after her mom got infected.
Then nothing happened at all, everybody was fine with Sonic afterwards.
Prime Tails - doesn’t think about it too hard. Helps save the day but doesn’t get involved with what happens to everyone afterwards. Just smile and wave.
Classic Tails - Along for the ride, if Eggman dies in the Death Star it’s not their job to help him
Gamegear Tails - is Kirby. Which is to say, The Punisher if he were an adorable little fluffball
Tails is the one Sonic character next to Shadow and Omega I see killing without regret, only difference is you have to push Tails into it or he does it without thinking something out.
Ian says he is, but I don't really believe it, especially considering Evan's in control now and Starline seems like the kind of character she'd feel is necessary for the book.
I tend to think that both Sega and Ian are at fault with Shadow. >Sega mandates he be a grumpy Vegeta-type >as a result Ian doesn't want to write him and therefore does so as lazily as possible
I still remember how some anons swore up and down that Evans would save the comic from Flynn, then turned right around and denied it when that turned out to be less than correct.
The only version of Tails who has ever shown a hard issue with killing has been Fleetway Tails. Tails in both the games (just based on Tails Adventure, Heroes and stuff like 06) and Archie has never had an issue with villains being offed.
He was set up to, but he threw away the gun because it was morally wrong. Tails Adventure Tails would have just dumped napalm on him and called it a day. Kid liberally committed war crimes without a car in the world.
>Just saying what he literally did anon.
No you made up your own conclusion from what he did.
Sonic is inherently edgy. Just like Kirby. It's only recently that Sega has been trying to change this and they still include shit like "Sonic being tortured for 6 months straight/slated for execution", having Shadow slaughter Zero's whole pack and approving the Metal Virus arc. If this upswts you, find a different franchise.
Notice how none of that is an 8 yo committing murder.
>made up
Anon I've watched X. He literally does all that shit without hesitation in the show itself. And this is a Tails based on SA1/2 so they think his game self can ALSO be that ruthless if push comes to shove.
Sonic is inherently edgy. Just like Kirby. It's only recently that Sega has been trying to change this and they still include shit like "Sonic being tortured for 6 months straight/slated for execution", having Shadow slaughter Zero's whole pack and approving the Metal Virus arc. If this upswts you, find a different franchise.
>butchers every remaining member of Cosmo’s species, including Cosmo herself >flambés all the series’ birds except for bean and the rogues >all the witchcarters “mysteriously dissapeared and were never seen again” after Tails flew offscreen with them
Eggman lives. Sonic is WEAK. Tails, only you can do what must be done.
>Tails tries using plant-based chaos control machines to grow the seed Cosmo left, like the Metarex used to floraform planets >realises potential of this, like Metarex said this could be used to create indefinite life, albeit submerged in a giant tree hivemind >suddenly starts to think a world without any death doesn't actually sound so bad
He's still a kid, he'll pull the trigger on eggman when he accepts reality
No. Sega will NEVER allow it. That's the big problem. And even if Sega did not own Sonic, Flynn's writing style has always been the villains are monstrous evil bastards who get away with their crimes because the heroes are enablers.
Just like real life, except replace sonic with SOCIETY and eggman with whoever you don't like at the top
He's a teenager and everything that happen in the game is canon. He mature enough to make choices.
he'll pull the trigger on Eggman if he ever comes close to being an irreversibly world-destroying force like the Biolizard, Erazor Djinn, King Arthur, Perfect Chaos, Solaris etc
Eggman has come close to doing so but only by accident since he still needs a world to rule, which is why he and Sonic are in constant conflict, he never purposely crosses that line
>he'll pull the trigger on Eggman if he ever comes close to being an irreversibly world-destroying force
You mean like the Metal Virus (an arc that was suppose to be the big finale for Archie Sonic before the Pender-pocalypse)
>an arc that was suppose to be the big finale for Archie Sonic before the Pender-pocalypse
It wasn't the finale, it was just the next big arc.
Nah. Just look at any Genesis game and how he never tries to actually stop Eggman after he foils his plans. Once all his big machines and Emerald stealing is over with, he just fricks off to sleep in a tree or something.
The entire comic is shit for the same reason Archie is shit, the villains are enabled by the heroes. This is automatic shit writing when villains are written as horrific monsters who regularly put the world in danger.
>This is automatic shit writing when villains are written as horrific monsters who regularly put the world in danger.
That makes no sense, it's literally the genre you are hating on. If you don't like these cartoony story lines why even read them at all? Its like saying the worst part of Mystery shows is all the mystery. Sonic is an action cartoon, the story revolves around him fighting his nemesis and various rogues, with maybe only a few one-off villains of the week. He saves the day no matter what and Eggman runs plan his next encounter with the blue menace. Rinse and repeat for 40 some odd years. I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons, but its not the genre and your obviously not the audience
>I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons
That's because Villain where these questions refer to are too monstrous, amoral, heinous individual who will never change, refuses to change, choses not to change, is 100% aware of what they're doing and the consequence of their actions and revel in the thought of what their action do to people: e.g. The Joker.
(Why do you think people don't ask why Batman doesn't kill Mr. Freeze? Because Mr. Freeze isn't causing citywide destruction or homicide on a genocidal level, he's sympathetic even.) If Eggman / The Joker wasn't so horrific then people / characters won't ask that question, that question wouldn't even be thought up.
Because people don't move on.
I don't mean "Abandon comics because you've turned 18 and its time to join the army." shit, I mean thanks to our jackshit education system and a Hollywood machine that wants to make the same five movies together, we are in a situation where there is an endless wealth of material no one knows how to read anymore.
There are whole genres about the sense of permanent consequences anon wants but that means reaching out and trying a different kind of media, a mystery novel or a political thriller, a frickin Tom Clancy novel lots of people die in those.
But it's, I guess, just easier to treat the core themes of this genre as somehow being flaws to be corrected so it can turn into this promised land of Good Comics that no one can ever describe the shape of.
Anyway,
is right. Sonic believes in freedom and has been consistent about this, even if he can't always explain it.
>I don't know why the "Just Kill them" bs arguments have invaded even cartoons, but its not the genre and your obviously not the audience
multiple generations raised exclusively on manga, anime & video games (and those they have inspired) have become desensitized to long running series. Everything is all about internal consistency, loredumps & most of all, consequences.
More kids are so done with western media, demanding that long standing traditions are destroyed in the name of "progress" (i.e Batman should kill the Joker)
And since everyone, their fricking mother & Ian Flynn keeps insisting that Sonic is "KINO SOUL SHONEN ACTION", now they want Sonic to move on from Eggman so he can fight "S3r1oUs" baddies like Infinite's e-girl daughter or Darkness the Darkness hog or whatever fricking juvinile shit.
Some homies just can't accept that sometimes, cartoon hedgehog is a cartoon hedgehog that needs to fight his arch nemesis all the time, and questioning that just makes problems for everyone.
I wonder if future generations are just gonna expect an emotional conclusion to when Wile. E is gonna catch the Road Runner, and I weep at the thought
cope
Touch grass.
Sonic is almost as bad as Spider-Man saving Carnage life.
Sonic is a teenager, Spider-man is an adult
Eggman does not usually kill, Carnage murdered thousands because he's a serial killer
Spider-Man is way worse
No offense man, but I've seen teenagers go for the kill. Image related is a kid protagonist. Sora from Kingdom Hearts is some underaged teenage kid around Sonic's age and what does he do to his enemies? He KILLS them. It's dressed up with pretty lights and such, but he still kills because he kills them. A Disney character has more balls than Sonic.
And if a villain dares to come back with another incarnation? Sora re-kills them until the death finally sticks which is what happened with Xehanort who kept coming back. Sonic has no excuse.
>sonic should kill his enemies
Then we wouldn't have Knux or Shadow
>TFW some crazy green girl tell you to stop having fun.
Threadly reminder that Sonic did nothing wrong.
Surge came out swinging, was plainly looking for any excuse to justify how she feels, was transparent about her readiness to end the world, and she demonstrated enough speed and power to potentially pull that off.
Sonic conversely tried to talk her out of it at every opportunity, and straight up tried to save her when she threw herself off a cliff.
Sonic isn't responsible for those he spares, they are responsible for themselves.
Sad thing is Surge can make that choice any time she wants. She didn't have to fight sonic, she could've turned on Starline and fought Eggman if she wanted.
Surge could've turned all that pain and suffering into something positive, but she made her choice, she wants revenge on the world.
It’s hard to say if Surge really had a choice. After all that brainwashing she may only think she made a choice to rebel but in reality she did exactly what she was programmed to do.
lol
If Surge was actually a threat, and Sonic was actually in danger, he would have been perfectly in the right finishing things with her like that.
Damn he did that Jack Noir dream murder spree thing
>Eggman spends some time as a amnesiac caring individual.
>Upon regaining memories return to being a evil doctor.
>Following plan upon regaining memories was causing a global apocalypse and ending all life.
Him forgetting every ounce of Mr. Tinker in him, not learning from the experience of being nice and forgetting (which he didn't) that whole relaxing life is what bothers me.
Not even something like Mr. Tinker appearing besides Eggman like a ghost; a figment / a representation of the morality he gain as a kind person as who would question Dr. Eggman actions; should you be doing this / is this really a good idea?
Anon, he's to Sonic what Black Manta is to Aquaman
It just, It's evident that Sonic and Eggman is the constant of these comics and everyone and everything will revolve around them and their conflict. It would be nice if the 2 are more rounded and able to change (even if it's in small ways) so the stories can be too, otherwise everything is static and stagnant. "The Sonic Cycle". If Starline couldn't outright stop the "Cycle" he could at least help changed it a bit (I'm now talking meta-ly).
>Him forgetting every ounce of Mr. Tinker in him, not learning from the experience of being nice and forgetting (which he didn't) that whole relaxing life is what bothers me.
well, he didn't entirely. i hope they do more with this.
The very first thing he did when regaining his memories was to zombify the village that took him in with 0 regret. He’s way past the point of redemption, this page was totally pointless and contradicts the rest of the story.
>Starline: [visible disgust]
Didn't archie have Eggman dress as a luchadore because he does like seeing kids smile.
I quite like the idea that Eggman IS an evil genius who wants to take over the world, but has a softspot for kids, like some kind of evil santa.
Sonic X Eggman. And he went to jail in the show.
It's still cool and I still like that aspect. Being a one dimensional horrible monster was better done with better reason in fleetway.
I like eggman as just an butthole with a mission, but still has his human qualities.
The story where he gets berated by Santa is golden
Fleetway Eggman also went to prison. He actually lost his empire and never fully regained dominance.
Also started losing his goddamn mind later on, to the point even Grimer bailed on him by the end.
And Fleetway Sonic was actually the same as IDW Sonic. He firmly believed that Robotnik could reform and Kintobar would return. And he still jailed him.
IDWbros...why doesn't OUR Eggman ever face consequences...?
Because IDW Sonic is a moron who keeps letting him off the hook. And this cancerous philosophy spreads to other people in his own world too, to the point Tangle prevents Whisper from justifiably offing Mimic.
That was the Sonic X comic.
>but has a softspot for kids, like some kind of evil santa
it would fit with why he likes theme parks so much
Let's not forget that his first act upon regaining his memories was testing the metal virus on the village that cared for him as Mr. Tinker just to mock them. Sonic was wrong as frick
To be fair Eggman was rightfully pissed off none of them did anything to help restore his memories. Those hypocritical gays deserved it.
t. Starline
This
Funny enough Surge can survive getting sliced in half since she's a zombot
>metal sonic controlled eggman's forces while he was mr. tinker
>took over angel island
>tried to kill everyone
>defeated and captured
>sonic let him go
>eggman created the metal virus and unleashed it on the world, starting with the village that took him in
>sonic and silver removed it from the world and sonic was sent to the sol dimension
>comes back to find eggman trying to kill everyone again because he was gone
>let's eggman leave
We are in "Goku keeps giving senzu beans to his enemies" territory.
>archie sonic has jailed eggman
>stc sonic has jailed eggman multiple times
>sonic x eggman has been jailed
And yet anyone defending IDW Sonic seems to ignore this and go straight to the extreme as if that was the only option.
I need to read Fleetway, I was put off by jerk Sonic but this artwork is honestly awesome
Fleetway Sonic is an acquired taste. He's an absolute ass but he is the most committed to being a hero.
You should. The female characters have MUCH better physical proportions. And there's MORE of them.
And yet anyone defending IDW Sonic seems to ignore this and go straight to the extreme as if that was the only option.
Face it anon, you made a hundred posts repeating the same arguments and got refuted over and over, none of those villains killed anyone but you want Sonic to execute them and act like this
Sonic doesn’t need to personally execute villains.
He just needs to get over himself and realise fighting to protect Tinker was a mistake. Which he won’t, because he’s a narcissist.
>you want Sonic to execute them and act like this
Wow. That’s literally what the first post you replied to was saying you’d do. There are alternatives to killing Eggman. Putting him in jail. Something every other Sonic but IDW Sonic has done. But all you can do is focus on the extreme case, something most Sonics would never do, in order to make a point.
Sometimes i wonder if SEGA not making Waku Waku Sonic Patrol canon was a mistake.
Cuz you homies keep wanting Sonic to be the police or something.
>Waku Waku
>this is what some anons want
all right, what is the reason to why eggman never went to jail? Prison exist in the IDW universe.
He'll break out
This whole argument is the batman joker question all over again
At least Batman tries and have other villains that are not Joker accessories.
He has uuuuh, those birds from riders?
Oh yeah the furious five! Those guys are totally like Sonic's version of the riddler or penguin right guys?
>the furious five
Who?
>Jet the Hawk
>Wave the Swallow
>Storm the Albatross
>Sam the Toucan
>Earl
Batman doesn't let the villein walk off.
Batman would gladly let the Joker and the like be executed if the state found them legit guilty.
Sonic for some odd reason in IDW has violated the basic rule of these type of toons by letting the villein walk off as opposed to going in for the catch but being blocked from doing so.
>what is the reason to why eggman never went to jail?
He gets away
This single pic predicted every single argument in this thread.
I really don't like how this issue really simultaneously hammered in that status quo and reputation are absolute in this comic, from three angles at once.
I guess Starline had it coming, but I really thought they other two would fair a little better than that. Holy shit. Rivals usually fall off in relevance and competence with repeated appearances. But this was their first actual fight against the guys there were made to fight. It's only going to get worse for them.
>I really don't like how this issue really simultaneously hammered in that status quo and reputation are absolute in this comic, from three angles at once
WTF did you expect from a writer completly autistic for the source material and a license that is only interested in keeping their brand iron-clad intact?
This is what happens when fans expect Duck L'Orange out of the same pink gunk McDonalds uses to make their chicken nuggets.
That what Sonic is - Chicken Nugget Happy Meal.
>Not even something like Mr. Tinker appearing besides Eggman like a ghost; a figment / a representation of the morality he gain as a kind person as who would question Dr. Eggman actions; should you be doing this / is this really a good idea?
Speaking of Status Quo is God , Mr. Tinker leaving so soon was the worst idea that IDW made and Flynn or SEGA should be punished for that.
It was genius - it allows the comic to explore other potential antagonists while technically, having Eggman waiting in the wings.
And yeah, Tinker riding shotgun with Eggy, Superior Spider-Man style, would've made for a more interesting Robotnik to watch.
But SEGA doesn't like fun & Flynn is a hack who literally recycled an old Archie plot for his second story, so that's that.
>It's only going to get worse for them.
Why? I see this as just the beginning for them now that they're loose and can grow.
Yeah he was, but I think that was the intention. I've mentioned this before but his fight with Surge has him drawn with rather antagonistic poses and expressions. While Surge constantly looks like she's on the verge of a mental breakdown, Sonic has these shit-eating grins. Pic related is one of the cover variants.
They're probably setting up for a later arc where he has a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview. And in a hypothetical future skirmish with Surge he'll be the one who's framed in a more sympathetic light.
Because frequently has a shit eating grin and Surge is actually mentally unstable.
Yes, but it was all the more prevalent in this issue. IDW!Sonic has been shown to be more caring right out the gate than this. I can see this in the future making him upset for not having handled it as (relatively) well as Tails did.
What's most likely going to happen is Sonic will find out the truth about Surge's previous life. Sonic will help restore how she was. Surge will apologize and say she was wrong to have ever doubted Sonic's way of doing things and we are back Sonic allowing the villains to get away with their crimes because we know that Flynn would never have Sonic kill the villains. It's not even about Sega. This is Flynn's style, he loves monstrous villains who the heroes conveniently never kill.
What a fricking mess. Say what you will, but we all know that no random character is going to character develop Sonic into killing his enemies. That's simply not going to happen.
And what I don't understand is the fetish for this annoying shitty unrealistic even for a cartoon or comic pacifism. It's just an insult to the audience. All it does is make want to grab the same staff writing this shit and put them to the test. For someone to murder their loved ones right down to their pets and then demand that they act pacifist just like all the pacifist heroes they seem to worship from Sonic, Batman, Steven Universe, Aang from Avatar and you get it. I want to test their damn morality, lets see whether or not they are hypocrites.
>Steven Universe
Nope, Wander over Yander, Wander saved the villain after she destroyed millions of planets without giving time to countless to escape, then tried to kill millions at once just to be stopped by Lord Hater who wanted the planet for himself without Wander help at all, then Wander saved her and everybody let her go while threatening them.
oh and to make it better, Wander plans all failed and even helped Dominator, Hater never had a change of heart at any moment and only defeated her because he hated her, the day was saved by the villain selfish goals and a deus ex machina rebuilding the galaxy, Wander objectively made everything worse
It was simply bizarre how the show treat it as a victory for Wander even though the only thing he did was save an angry Dominator life and help her escape while giving her gifts.
Seemed like the victory came from Wander's insistence on treating Hater as a redeemable person rather than The Enemy, which paved the way for everyone working together to beat Dominator. Without Wander, everyone would have kept seeing Hater as just a violent egotistical dipshit. No one would have recognized how insecure and desperate for acceptance he was, and never ever considered lending the support to hype him up. Wander's treatment of Dominator was just an extension of that. The implication is that, as with Hater, that attitude may eventually pay off with her.
>Seemed like the victory came from Wander's insistence on treating Hater as a redeemable person rather than The Enemy, which paved the way for everyone working together to beat Dominator
It didn't in fact they all agreed before facing Dominatior their plans was simply stupid, they all went to the planet because they were desperate and only allowed Hater to aid them due to the fact they were too busy to even pay attention to him.
>Without Wander, everyone would have kept seeing Hater as just a violent egotistical dipshit. No one would have recognized how insecure and desperate for acceptance he was, and never ever considered lending the support to hype him up
That's your headcanon, they hyped Hater because if he failed they would all die right away, Hater almost lost because he was doubting himself due to Dominator victories but recovered his strenght after convincing himself he was still the villain he ever was
>Wander's treatment of Dominator was just an extension of that. The implication is that, as with Hater, that attitude may eventually pay off with her.
You see, the problem is Wander never convinced Hater to anything, not even once, even Spongebob managed to convince Plankton to be a hero a few times but Hater never had this moment, not even the climax where he destroyed Dominator ending had him being a hero, he only proved Wander wrong again and again
And you could forgive all of that if Wander had in anyway helped save the day but he didn't, unlike Sonic, unlike Steven unlike Naruto nothing he ever did helped anyone, he gave Dominator even more power to kill even more people and then saved her life and gave her the means to escape the planet and be free.
Flynn has literally stated he has no intention to redeem either Kit or Surge, nor is he in control of the current direction of the comics. But keep having a breakdown I guess.
>a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview
Like how? He believes in forgiveness and second chances, even though his allies have repeatedly criticized him for that attitude. He himself has wondered about it too, but he's eventually decided that he wants to give people a second chance. He told Surge he wants her to have an opportunity to live a better life too. So what kind of an adjustment to his worldview do you mean? Do you want Sonic to lose his hope and optimism so that he'll be more ruthless to his villains?
Why does everyone think the alternative HAS to be him running around killing people? By adjusting his worldview I mean something along the lines of him being more hands-on with those he gives second chances to, not just leaving them alone and hoping they either don't frick up or someone comes in and forces them to frick up.
The flaw of his worldview isn't him offering mercy, it's him offering no follow up.
I didn't say anything about killing, I asked if you wanted him to be more ruthless. He could simply lose his hope that a villainous person can ever reform, and he could refuse to ever accept them as friends. He could be angry and serious rather than playful and wienery in fight scenes.
I guess you want him to be more sensitive, then? Offering therapy for his villains so that they'll stay good? If that's what you want, I think you're asking too much. Sonic enjoys his freedom to run around, and he doesn't even want to get too tied up with all the nice people at the Restoration since he's not keen on the responsibilities. Also, he's a guy with an attitude and a habit of teasing others. I don't think he wants to become anyone's emotional support hedgehog.
I really hope you don't want Sonic to lose his most distinct character traits simply because you fap to Surge, and you're upset that Sonic didn't even have to try too hard to beat her.
>pic
What a c**t.
He was being controlled by Eggman. He does get his ass beat later.
Oh, phew. I didn't read that issue.
His body was but not his mouth.
Is that Scourge? Reads like Scourge.
>Picrel
Issue number?
Archie Sonic's FCBD 2007 issue.
>Sonic enjoys his freedom to run around, and he doesn't even want to get too tied up with all the nice people at the Restoration since he's not keen on the responsibilities.
His love of "freedom" nearly resulted in planet-wide omnicide complete with the deaths of everyone he loves and cares about.
I just wondering why isn't Shadow giving Sonic constant shit for his beliefs constantly blowing up in his face time after time. After a while Shadow (and a few other characters) would have (and probably should have) put their comically oversized shoes down and berate Sonic's (in)actions and (in)abilities. They would've probably formed a separate group, one who would actually "clean up" the "filth" once and for all; a story of infighting, a civil war probably.
They argued over Mr. Tinker but Shadow was talked down and even ridiculed. Then the Metal Virus happened, Shadow appeared one issue, and then got turned into a zombot when he went full moron. And then Shadow ended up feeling like he owed Sonic because he didn't heed Sonic's warning. Knuckles called him out during the last part of Metal Virus and again in the FCBD issue for Sonic bringing trouble to his island. Cream had one panel where she was mad at Sonic. Other than that, everyone turns a blind eye to Sonic's failed attempts at talk no jutsu.
To be fair Cream's mom had been zombified so while her anger was understandable she was still ultimately in the wrong for doubting Sonicgod.
>tfw eggman creates a space death laser that destroys your home and all your little friends were fried to a crisp and sonic stops eggman and tells him to run off and think about what he did
>tfw you regret talking whisper down from shooting him in the head
Honestly I think Shadow should be a little colder. Yes, his debut was literally him being told to give the people of Earth I MEAN SONIC'S WORLD BECAUSE SEGA MANDATES MAKE EARTH NON CANON IN THE COMICS a second chance, but you'd think that would also mean he's pretty no-nonsense about things that threaten the wellbeing of other people. Perhaps he doesn't put down threats for good because he's worried he doesn't have the whole story and doesn't want to become someone else's GUN. If that's the case, though, he should still be a bit harsher than Sonic. Shadow should actually yeet people into prison, but does the IDW sonic world even have a legal system? I'm not asking for a courtroom drama arc, I just mean could someone like Starline once he's not relevant to the plot actually be sent to jail?
They HAD a jail, but after Mimic, Rough and Tumble, Zavok and Starline went through it, I'm not sure he useful it would be.
Yeah, see, I think actually having a useful prison would be helpful. Sometimes you need to kill rogue's gallery members to put them out of commission, but I get that's not feasible for Sonic comics. Single-arc villains should get tossed in the slammer. Maybe Mobius —I MEAN SONIC'S WORLD fricking Sega — actually makes the lesser baddies like rough and tumble do some community service and they become ordinary civilians after doing time. People like Starline shouldn't get that privilege, though.
FWIW: I'm pretty sure Starline is going to get written out of the story by his Warp Topaz malfunctioning and shunting him into a void dimension/space between spaces sort of deal where he's stuck until Ian runs out of ideas with the other villains. Maybe Surge will be the one that makes it malfunction with her electrical powers.
Starline lost the Warp Topaz and his Tricore. Hes aldo probsbly dead, unless Evan decides to bring him back, since Ian has no intention of doing so.
Oh shit, I missed that the topaz was actually destroyed when they used it to wrap up the metal virus plot.
Well good, Starline was a shitty villain so him being dead sooner rather than later is no skin off my back.
Oh, apparently Sega didn't want it written out, so while it was written to be destroyed initially, it's still around.
Starline was okay, even as a Snively replacement. I did like the basic idea of his philosophical disagreement with Eggman but do take some issue with it. Because, well, I already saw Archie's Eggman learn the same lesson that Starline just did in Issue 50: Adaptability beats meticulous planning. Back then it paid off nicely because Eggman used it as a stepping stone in his evolution as a villain. When it comes to Starline, I don't see where his character can go from here. Maybe end up insecure about his own intelligence, less pompous, more willing to open his ears and listen to others?
While we are never going to get the Archie version of Shadow back, I too would prefer that IDW Shadow was less of a moronic rival desperate to prove how he's the greatest and more of an intense pragmatist who's version of "do the right thing" is the source of his friction with Sonic. The annoying part is how we almost have that, it would just take a couple of tweaks.
This is Shonen shit 101, why are people surprised Sonic isnt going around killing all his villains? Did they forget theyre not reading a comic for adults?
I think the biggest difference I noticed in his attitude was not the kill or no kill thing.
It was that he seemed to be enjoying beating up Surge when in most cases he would stop the fight instead.
You can see he wasn't even powered up with energy, the problem is not that he obliterated her, the strange thing is how unusually content he was while doing so.
>"don't have time to be introspective"
Except that he still doesn't do that when he has the time.
I think the issue isn't so much Sonic's philosophy as how little he's forced to really think it over. Surge confronts him with some fairly compelling consequences of his past choices, but Sonic just brushes it off by spouting casual platitudes. It does come off like a villain speech. This lack of serious introspection has been an ongoing issue throughout the comic. Shadow criticized Sonic for his role in the metal virus fiasco but was written as a dipshit chump so his opinion could be discarded. Sonic later turned around and laid the blame at Metal's feet. His beliefs make sense for the character but have not stood up to serious scrutiny and so remain less than convincing. Which in turn makes Sonic look like a naive enabler who operates on "muh feefees."
>They're probably setting up for a later arc where he has a bit of a realization that he needs to adjust his worldview
At this point, I seriously doubt it. Because the comic has repeatedly gone out of its way to let Sonic ignore any pesky ethical questions that get downright screamed in his face. Which is a real shame, because Sonic having to actual grapple with this shit would be a lot more interesting than "lol u mad."
Yea I think it's going somewhere. Even Tails seems to be getting a bit sick of it.
Whatever the whole book is basically the writers trying to make a good story when marketing people are doing what marketing people do and making it almost impossible with random arbirary instructions. It's actually shocking how often my least favourite things about IDW Sonic turn out to be the artists making it having try to work within the demands given to them while creating a compelling comic
Anyone else here that kind of doesn't like the artist's style who worked on this issue? I can't really explain it, it's extremely competent and I recognise that it's good, but something about it creeps me the frick out.
I love Surge bullying. I want to see her break down in tears.
I want to enter her womb and watch her wince thru tears
His choice, if someone else wants to kill Eggman then they can do it themselves.
Maybe he was, but he doesn't give a shit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJs1iJOXFN8
If I was put in charge of writing the comics/a cartoon show I'd handle it like Kids Next Door.
And I'd keep a separate wacky AU where all sorts of crazy degenerate shit happens like Tails temporarily voring Sonic to absorb his powers.
Shadow would regain his eloquent dialogue from Sonic X's very few scenes and Shadow would be turned into a triple agent traitor instead of an antihero.
Sonic is hot as frick
He has to be, he lives in hot chick heaven.
Reminder that the entire metal virus crisis happened because Sonic allowed Metal to go free, which awakened Mr.Tinker's eggman memories.
Surge was literally right. Her entire painful existence as a cyborg zombie is because of Sonic's frickup.
It's even worse when you realize that Metal was the first big bad of IDW. After everything with Neo Metal, Sonic lets him go like he found Jesus or something.
Sweet another thread proving that Punishergays are the worst fandom in this board
Punisher unironically single handely ruined western comic discussion
They are even worse than vs battle superman and thor fans
Yep
>nooooooooo Sonic must kill Eggman, Donald Duck must kill Peteeeeeeeeee
Donald Duck is a shitty comic, wtf they don't even kill
Donald has friends who do, but that's specifically in his slightly more edgy comics.
Donald also got pissed enough that he wanted to kill one of his villains and came very close to doing so in one issue
oh for fricks sakes its the europeans.
I'm not in the "Kill the Bastard" group, I just question the writer's idea of:
Letting villains be psychopaths a letting them do extremely horrible things,
The heroes only stopping the current crime but not holding the criminal accountable,
The Hero having a view on reforming criminals while said criminals told them outright they are never going to change,
The supporting cast letting the Hero constantly letting irredeemable villains go without question or resistance,
The mentioning of the "Status Quo" in-narrative and referring to how bad it is but later on doubling down on it wholesale, confirming nothing is going to change no mater how many detours.
All I want is consequences, no death required
I'm pretty sure anyone that states the opposition only wants Sonic to kill Eggman are just trolls trying to keep things going. Because that's all they're saying. It's easy to dismiss the other side when you focus on the extreme.
Why are you punishergays so dishonest, just read the thread and those comments are against Sonic send Eggman fatass to jail.
Sonic not wanting blood on his hands is one thing but saving Eggman from other people who have entirely justified reasons for wanting to kill him is pure homosexualry
Nah, it fits his personality, he's too cool to kill.
Dont they have a prison? Just put bad guys in there?
Basically same problem batman has, to a lesser degree since it's sonic. It should be the government's problem after the hero stops the bad guy.
>Dont they have a prison? Just put bad guys in there?
Yes. They put Mimic, Rough and Tumble, and even Zavok in there. But Sonic let Metal Sonic go. And he didn't bother to capture Eggman.
>It should be the government's problem after the hero stops the bad guy.
Kind of hard to do anything when your "hero" is releasing killer robots and pardoning mass murderers.
Can I get a tldr on what happened in IDW Sonic? This isnt the only place I have seen people discussing something supposedly huge that happened.
>eggman gets amnesia and becomes good
>everyone wants to jail or kill him
>sonic talks them all down
>good eggman gets kidnapped by starline, the villain oc that wants to serve under eggman
>metal sonic runs eggman's forces and becomes neo metal again
>gets beaten and held
>tails repairs him and sonic lets him go
>starline tries to get eggman to remember his evil self but he doesn't
>metal appears and eggman touches him once and immediately gets his memories back
>eggman goes right back to his old ways and unleashes a zombie robot virus that turns everyone into a mindless zombot
>almost everyone becomes a zombot
>eggman has no plan to control the zombots and that frustrates starline
>starline calls in the zeti
>eggman gets pissed and has to run and work with the heroes to save the day
>sonic goes super with silver and they deus ex mahina the virus from the world
>sonic ends up getting sent to the sol dimension and has amnesia for an issue and blaze sends him back home
>sonic arrives to find his friends having a party for surviving the zombot outbreak and eggman showed up in a giant robot trying to kill them all
>everyone beats eggman and sonic lets eggman fly off
>starline is on the run and hides in eggman's facilities trying to figure out a way to get back at him
>takes various things and enhances surge and kit to be his weapons, brainwashing them to hate sonic and tails
>starline goes to eggman's main hq and tries to take over
>starline fights eggman, loses, has a mental breakdown and "dies"
>sonic meets surge for the first time and she tells him it's his fault her life was ruined
>she wants to kill eggman and starline
>sonic says he won't let her do that and that he will always give even them as many chances as they need to become good
>surge doesn't like that and fights sonic
>sonic beats her and she falls down a pit
Okay, so the 'controversy' here is that Sonic lets Eggman go and he keeps committing bad things and the 50 issues are rinse and repeat of this?
Yes. IDW Sonic is trying to redeem his villains and keeps letting them go. The only problem is that it hasn't worked. At all. Now Sonic and Tails are stuck in Eggman's city and he's trying to kill them all.
>"Maybe you'll eventually come around..."
If the writers kept Mr. Tinker around in some shape or form then maybe this sentence wouldn't fell so hollow.
I think part of why it rings hollow is yeah, we know as meta readers that Eggman will NEVER come around, so it is weird.
>"Maybe you will eventually come around."
>he says this while the fire is still burning around him
What happend in sonic comics?
All i know that it revolves around the green OC
Surge isn’t important. She was super overhyped, she doesn’t even get Sonic to doubt himself, she’s just some jobber for Sonic to squash. Starline is the villain the entire comic revolved around.
>She was super overhyped
how so , popularity =/= overhype
She got her own miniseries and was hyped in the main book as a powerful mysterious figure for several issues. She was the central focus on several comic covers. Surge and Kitt were hyped to all hell and they ended up being Rough and Tumble but with electricity and water powers.
>was hyped in the main book as a powerful mysterious figure for several issues
It was stated she was not able to beat Sonic several times, also
>no powerwank
That's good, frick this DBZ shit where every single villain needs to be stronger than the last to inflate hype
Rivals need to be strong in order to be you know, rivals. They literally need to rival the hero’s strength. If Shadow or Knuckles ate shit in their first fight against Sonic they would have no fans.
She doesn’t have to be the strongest person ever, but for frick’s sake at least get in a dirty hit or two and make Sonic struggle.
Sonic was visibly sweating and mentioned that she was pretty tough. Surge didn't beat him, but she seemed to be a pretty formidable opponent. Not bad for her first outing against a more experienced Sonic.
I don’t remember her getting a single good hit in. Her big suicide attack amounted to lightly Shocking Sonic’s finger.
They boot eachother in the face once, and she slugs him into a wall during the first big action panel they have.
>Her big suicide attack amounted to lightly Shocking Sonic’s finger.
That was just her being spiteful after losing. Her energy was drained at that point; it wasn't a Big Limit Breaker Suicide Attack.
the writing make it seem like sonic was barely trying. He wasn't upset or struggling like he did with Shadow or Knuckles. He was having fun why surge was being a sperg.
She didn't have him on the ropes like Shadow or Knux did, but she gave him something to think about. That was my read of it, anyway.
People forget that the hero actually trying to stop the villain is important, even if the villain comes back eventually. Sure, Joker is gonna break out again, but Batman at least looks like less of a moron if he actually tries to put him away.
>Batman vs. Joker
The fact that we're even able to compare Eggman to the Joker is a great example of how 2edgy this franchise has become.
>Knuckles
Sonic was a kid and a rookie
>Shadow
Is supposed to be the ultimate rival
Surge role is to be a newbie and underdog with potential.
It can be nothing, but you can see he doesn't have an energy aura around him like when he fights other characters.
it seems to imply he clearly wasn't using any substantial ammount of his chaos powers to beat surge.
The fight was interrupted by falling debris.
>Her big suicide attack
No one seems to reread this part. Sonic calls a truce to pull Surge up and she jolts Sonic for "last hit", but its after that that the debris falls. Had the debris not fallen, then what? She would let go and fall, climb out by herself or let Sonic pull her backup.
>or let Sonic pull her backup.
She'd have never done that. Too proud.
>eggman doesn't kill
Oh, he's tried. Remember this is right after Metal Virus.
So he never killed anyone but you still want the teenager talking animals in a comic for kids to murder him.
Killing in self-defense is justified. Have it written like that or accident and nobody gets the blame.
Tails would have instantly died if that Not!GBE so much as grazed him, moron. At that point, there is no excuse for not offing Eggman. He was shooting to kill with zero moral hangups.
Why does everyone in the west want to make a super deep, dark and dramatic Sonic anyway? What the frick is wrong with wacky 90s extreme adventures of an obvious X-Games mascot character being cool and running fast on things?
>implying japan hasn't been pushing it for years
You haven't played any Sonic game in the past 20 years. Eggman has conquered the planet, enslaved entire races, and almost killed everyone multiple times. The edge was there and it was brought to you by Sonic Team.
>Eggman has conquered the planet, enslaved entire races, and almost killed everyone multiple times. The edge was there and it was brought to you by Sonic Team.
Yes, and that is why we ridicule those games all the time.
After all, Sonic had a rough transition into 3D
>Angry dyke with a mohawk plasting aliens in space
Carol, is that you?
Xadhoom actually made her debut back during Carol's years as Warbird.
She's also straight as an arrow
Don't worry Sonic, Eggman will change. He'll be the lovable Mr. Tinker again. Funny thing, Belle already gave up on that happening.
>two different characters get offscreen killed by rubble in the same issue, probably not even ten pages apart
This comic is such crap.
Surge'll be back. She's already making a comeback with a Super form in issue 53. Dunno about Starline though.
So if Surge hadn't attacked Sonic himself and instead made a beeline for Starline and Eggman (say, after they had destroyed eachothers' mechs so they couldn't fight back), would Sonic have stopped her from frying them?
I get him fighting her in the somic, since she's attacking him and had barely explained her motives before going "I'M GOING TO BURN THE FRICKING WORLD!!", but would he have actually kept her from killing Eggman and Starline?
Yes. IDW Sonic won't let anyone die when he's around. And honestly a lot of Sonics wouldn't let her. The difference is that IDW Sonic is the only Sonic, if presented with the opportunity to capture either of them, wouldn't and would just leave.
IDW Sonic is so friggin' weird. A guy that's sugary-sweet to the point of being a lazy butthole is not really what I have in mind when I think of Sonic the Hedgehog.
Ah, that explains it. She's probably drawn him straddling other dudes loads of times.
It feels a lot like Japanese Sonic, honestly, which is kind of funny considering where the complaining's coming from.
>IDW Sonic is the only Sonic, if presented with the opportunity to capture either of them, wouldn't and would just leave.
So did nobody play the games here or something?
Only game I can remember off the top where it was like that was SA2. And they had all just gone through a fricking near end of the world event and death thanks to messing with wild forces.
Everything else is eggman getting blown the frick out or going down with the ship.
In ShtH and Heroes, he's literally standing by the heroes and yet he doesn't even get jailed. They do car races with him and they enter competitions hosted by Eggman. They fight him and don't go out of their way to save him from the fallout but they don't go out of their way to detain him either.
Yes. He pretty explicitly tells her he would, along the lines of "I won't let you take away anyone else's freedom". Mind you, this is after Starline took away Mr. Tinker's freedom to be a good genuinely kind person and after Eggman nearly took away EVERYONE'S freedom with the Metal Virus.
Game/Modern Sonic would also let both just leave, but he'd at least kick their asses first. And I think Movie would just let her go to town. He's the only version who has tried to kill his Robotnik as a first response, going by the second movie where he attacks the house.
I hecking love Steven Universe!
That bent-over Shadow in that first panel looks suspiciously well-drawn. Which artist is this?
Krazyelf
Obvious from the WORDSWORDSWORDS
Did any Sonic villain that was spared ever killed anyone?
Eggman
Starline, arguably, if you count the fact that Surge and Kit have already died multiple times and were revived by the Zombie virus
>Eggman
Which character did he kill
Metal Virus Crisis.
>Metal Virus Crisis.
No one died
The entire population of the planet was nearly extinguished. Close enough.
>nearly
Key word. Almost every Eggman scheme has to potential loss of life but they're stopped in the end and yet no one cared that Sonic didn't kill or jail him before IDW.
Nta, They don't go into much detail about how these events affect the populace, in the comics they do.
Which just reveals how arbitrary this "outrage" is. This is how Eggman and Sonio have operated for years. If you seriously didn't think how his shit would affect the average joe before then you're lacking brain cells.
Tell that to Twitter tards.
Twitter tards intrinsically lack brain cells. It's too late for them.
I think the outrage comes from having to suffer through the Metal Virus arc. Eggman needs to die, not for the pain he caused the cast, but for the pain he caused the audience.
Its just weird have villians do really heinous stuff and we're supposed to be glad the hero didn't kill them or at least let them die via explosion, bloodlost or whatever.
Eggman has implicitly killed many people in the games. He killed most of the Resistance in Forces even, which is canon to IDW.
And he got the same treatment like always in TSR.
Hell he on-screen tortured a city to death with the egg grapes back in Archie.
>It doesn't count because nobody REALLY died. Everyone just got mind- and body-raped, and that's totally okay and warrants no retribution whatsoever!
>It doesn't count because nobody REALLY died.
If you weren't calling for Eggman's blood since Adventure, then you have no place to say it's mandatory now.
What's even funnier is that if you point out mass destruction like flooding, separation of the earth crust and more it won't count somehow.
Chaos
Chaos (not entirely by its own will, but still), Eggman in the games alone, Starline, Mogul has DEFINITELY killed people but he's immortal so eh, Scourge probably has a body count too.
This entire fricking thread
When the villains are portrayed as complete edgelords who cause a zombie apocalypse, don't act all surprised when people want the heroes to actually try to punish them.
Good call!
Why don't Shadow take matters into his own hands and eliminate these pest?
current game Shadow would've done it
IDW Shadow is a complete moron who'd probably job to a five year-old. IDW is bending over backwards so hard to justify Sonic's worldview that it assfricks Shadow's character.
>IDW is bending over backwards so hard to justify Sonic's worldview that it assfricks Shadow's character.
Gee, it's almost like Sonic is the title character & Shadow is a 5th wheel behind a child, a chad echidna and girl with a big hammer.
Is this why you AdventureCucks keep hammering on "dark & serious" stories about cartoon hedgehogs - just an excuse to Shadowank?
Too bad. He has his shot at stardom and fricking blew it. You Black folk are lucky that little b***h gets a guest spot every now and then.
>You Black folk are lucky that little b***h gets a guest spot every now and then.
I'd rather have him not appear at all than have him appear to be Vegetadow the Moron.
I'm not like the Shadowspammer b***hing that he doesn't appear in every issue or have some prick-waving contest with Sonic every five minutes, but I'd like for him not to be a complete fricking useless dipshit when he DOES show.
Sega has decreed that Shadow must be more like Vegeta. That is to say he's the token butthole teammate whose ego exacerbates the problem of the heroes and then gets his shit pushed in to make the villain look more threatening.
Shut up, Flynn. Nobody believes it.
I do. Sega and Sonic Team in particular are perpetually moronic when it comes to Sonic.
Bullshit. All companies like Hasbro and Sega do not give a rat's ass about what you do with their IPs otherwise they would have ripped the contract immediately and constantly hired and rehired new people who are actually competent.
All Sega wants are money and to avoid another dumb lawsuit. Suits always have dumb ideas about how to get more money, and the Japanese especially are paranoid when it comes to IP protection. It's not hard to see why the comic would fall under additional scrutiny and dumb controls meant to keep it on the rails, especially given Sega's history with the franchise.
Did your uncle at Sega tell you that?
>otherwise they would have ripped the contract immediately and constantly hired and rehired new people who are actually competent
How are incompetent people suppose to know who is competent enough to hire?
Sonic will just stop him. Seems like we're going to have an "evil shadow" arc. We're he gain more to enacted his will and still lose to sonic and accomplished nothing.
Sonic guilted him and everyone laughed at him when Tinker's Eggmanland turned out to be a little kiddie park.
>Shadow
>ever doing anything right again
Ha
IDW shadow got out-witted by metal jobber.
Let that sink in.
This version of Tikal is such monster (well, ghost) waifu material.
IDW Shadow is so fricking useless he'd probably get assraped by a Chao. He will NEVER do anything of value.
He's incredibly incompetent in IDW.
I don't know why ether. He seemed hyper competent in the Forces DLC, essentially speed running Sonic's quest before the game even began.
Sega is insisting Shadow be written like Vegeta, meaning he's always set up to fail regardless of how competent or incompetent he is.
It's a bit disrespectful to the character, especially given how much time Sega had spent trying to build him up over the years.
Why though? He doesn't really fail in the games. Just falls out of focus so Sonic can save the say. More akin to a modern rival in a shonen series, than Vegeta.
Who knows. For years there was some Hollywood executive who tried to insert giant spiders into every script he could and can be thanked for Wild Wild West. It could be simple as a DBZ = popular = profitable mindset.
Because Shadow is a relic of when the series was needlessly serious. Or shonen. Good riddance.
Forces was needlessly serious and will still be the last main game until Frontier comes out.
And Frontier stars yet ANOTHER black and red antagonist, apparently.
Forces is also a laughingstock. And we'll see how serious Frontier is.
So was Lost Worlds, and we're still being feed the Zeti.
At this point they should just retcon IDW Shadow as some android fake and pull the real one out of cryostasis, because right now his potential character arc boils down to stop being a tryhard imbecile.
>He seemed hyper competent in the Forces DLC
Based on what? He took out some jobber mercenaries, got tripped up by the main villain he inspired and then disappeared for 6 months.
>Ian forces Shadow to job to prop up Sonic and Silver
What a cringefest. I expect him to job to Surge later on too since Ian only cares about propping up his female oc's.
Ian isn't the one writing Shadow like this, moron. Shadow is one of his favorite characters, which is why he just quietly stopped writing him because the mandates crippled and butchered Shadow's character.
Who is making him do this then? The Japanese written games don't depict him this way. So i have doubts it's mandates from Sonic Team.
The closest thing I can associate with it is how they treat him like a self aware joke in the recent racing game. But I don't know who was in charge of the writing there.
IDW Shadow seems pretty consistent with Forces Shadow. If he's not standing around brooding then he's shit-talking proto-Infinite and kicking dirt in his eyes for personal amusement, which causes the entire problem to begin with.
Forces Shadow wasn't incompetent at all though.
And infinite was already a tryhard blood thirsty mercenary even before he put on the mask (and... apparently lost his corporeal form along the way??). So It's really hard to see Shadow bullying him as Shadow being a bad guy.
Shadow bothering to kick the guy when he's down was pretty weird, given he was just one more rando among many. The way he went about it was incredibly arrogant, which is well in-line with IDW Shadow. Now if proto-Infinite had gone and done something heinous to prove he was "the Ultimate Mercenary," then I could see Shadow pound him into the dirt out of disgust.
If IDW Shadow was only incredibly arrogant, he wouldn't get nearly the same complaints as he does. Instead he's paranoid, incompetent, shortsighted and overconfident. Pretty much every interaction he has with another character ultimately is designed to knock him down a peg in the eyes of the reader.
And character-wise, that's not terribly far removed from Forces Shadow. The only reason why he's more competent is because playing as a dumbass try hard wouldn't be fun.
Watching one fail isn't fun ether.
I really don't care for Shadow. But I just find IDW Shadow even more annoying. Invalidating him at every turn just makes his presence even more frustrating.
>Watching one fail isn't fun ether.
The company does not care. So long as the comic is moving stock, they're fine with it. You the customer do not matter in any capacity beyond that.
Leaving this here. Again.
>MV: And the finale to season 2, which sees all the major characters return against Shadow, who tries to end the universe, also had a pretty big budget. Fittingly so!
>Alan: Oh, man. Writing for Shadow was a challenge in itself. SEGA did not consider him a comedy character. They told us we could use him, he could be on the show, but he was not to be making any jokes. We were like “uh, sure.” So to work around that, the joke became the very fact that Shadow is completely humorless. So edgy, all the time. It was funny that he was here, having to deal with all these crazy people.
>Greg: Shadow was a character that was very protected by SEGA. They were reluctant to let us use him very much, and when we did use him, he came with so many notes and restrictions that it was easier to not use him. That’s why he wasn’t on the show as much as fans would have wanted.
>MV: So that’s why he was relegated to being a once-in-a-blue-moon, ‘special episode’ character. Was Metal Sonic the same? He doesn’t even talk, you could have used him more!
>Alan: Yeah, Metal Sonic only put in the one appearance.
>Greg: But we brought him back for the finale. Honestly, when characters that were existing, original-universe Sonic characters were brought in, those episodes were just too hard to write for. There were so many notes, they were such protected characters. We got to have so much more freedom with characters of our own, like Dave the Intern and the Mayor, that it was just easier. Did we want to include Big the Cat? Sure we did. But writing that would have been a huge headache, it would have had to have gone through so many layers of clearance. It would have taken ages to get approved. It wasn’t worth it. Hence why there’s only Shadow, Metal Sonic, and Vector the Crocodile in a handful of episodes.
https://www.megavisions.net/building-a-boom-iverse-an-interview-with-sonic-writers-alan-denton-and-greg-hahn/
THIS makes sense though. His depiction in Boom aligns with with how Sonic Team wants people to see him.
So why were they able to get around all this in the IDW comic? Where he's super incompetent and literally gets laughed at?
Please read that again. They specifically say that Shadow was mired in mandates and they only got around them because they made the fact that he was a total humorless moron the joke in and of itself. Even then, they just stopped using him because he was so full of restrictions it was better to make up OC's to fill the position.
IDW is FORCED to use Shadow because he's a pivotal character in the settings narrative, being a post-Forces comic. Boom could ignore him for the most part because it was mostly OC's and an original setting. Same reason they didn't have Big or any of the Chaotix except Vector.
That doesn't really challenge what I said. Nor does it really expand upon anything.
Boom Shadow very much feels like a character tied up in mandates.
IDW Shadow does not.
>IDW Shadow does not.
How the frick does "literally forgot all of his character development, abilities, friendly rivalry with Sonic and every other defining aspect of himself": The Character not feel like a character tied up in mandates? Are you moronic?
The fact that they were able to get away with him getting laughed at by other characters over the Eggman land misunderstanding, despite the very interview you posted showing how impossible it was to directly make a joke at his expense.
The fact that they are so easily able to depict him as a bumbling idiot despite the fact that he's supposed to be a character on a short leash.
I'm not really understanding what you aren't seeing.
They very explicitly only got away with that because Sega didn't care about the Boom show. Boom was a mark of shame that they were eager to erase and wash their hands of. They weren't paying attention to shit when the show was being made, which by the writer's admission let them get away with a lot.
I'm not contesting what happened with the Boom show. It makes perfect sense with the supposed mandates.
It's his depiction in IDW that confuses me. He does not feel like a protected character. He does not feel like a character you aren't allowed to make fun of.
He's not made fun of in-universe. We only point out his idiocy here because we know the character and know he wouldn't be this moronic. The Metal Virus mishap is something Sega entirely signed off on because that's the sort of Shadow they want to be depicted. Which is laughable to us, but is seen as some 'heroic' if reckless action in-universe.
They must have not understood the script then. Shadow didn't even get a heroic sacrifice. He was just careless and his downfall seemed mostly to be a 'gotcha' for talking shit about Sonic.
If I were in charge of the comics, Shadow would still get infected by the MV, but instead of not trying to get away and burn off the infection, he'd see of civilians be menaced by the Zombot horde, and in a moment of pure selflessness, goes on to save the civilians, but at the cost of getting himself turned in the end.
>The fact that they were able to get away with him getting laughed at by other characters over the Eggman land misunderstanding
No one laughed at him. Rouge made a teasing remark, as she is wont to do, but no one was mocking him over it. Everyone got freaked out about that Eggmanland comment.
>Shadow is very protected by Sega
>is allowed to be written in IDW as an idiot that forcibly jobs to prop up other characters
Strange way of protecting.
They want him to be Vegeta, is what they mean by "protecting". His use is mired in restrictions and limitations that keep him from having an actual personality or identity.
That does practically ruin the character for fans of his character. Strange Sega wants him written a certain way that only ruins him for everyone.
Shadow should never have been brought back after SA2, we'd all have been better off in the longrun.
Sega only took on this moronic view some timee after his game got released, and further rienforced it with 06 and the whole "get rid of Sonic's friends thing".
>Nothing ever says or suggests that Tails killed the BBA,
What suggests it is him nuking them with fricking napalm. So unless you think the birds could survive that, depsite us seeing them get explicitly cooked and falling into the open ocean by the end of the game, they're dead. They're the most dead any non-Maria character can be without the circumstances behind Maria's death. And Maria herself is never shown to be dead, only stated to be. Likewise for Gerald.
>So unless you think the birds could survive that
Sonic and Shadow have survived a fall from space. Eggman survives all kinds of explosions and crashes. I put very little faith that they treat danger or weapons as being realistic.
>And Maria herself is never shown to be dead, only stated to be. Likewise for Gerald.
Now you're just saying the game is outright lying to you instead of saying nothing like the BBA. You're grasping at straws.
>Sonic and Shadow have survived a fall from space.
You mean the same fall from space THAT THEY LITERALLY BELIEVE SHADOW DIED FROM? The one that fricked his head so hard he was an amnesiac for almost all of StH? That fall?
>Eggman
Is seen escaping from all of his exploding bases/mechs/ships each and every time. He never stays there and tanks the explosion. Humans like him or his family pretty explicitly die to bullets.
>You mean the same fall from space THAT THEY LITERALLY BELIEVE SHADOW DIED FROM?
>BELIEVE
Keyword. And look at that, they were wrong.
>The one that fricked his head so hard he was an amnesiac for almost all of StH?
If this was the real world he wouldn't have fricked up his head, he would have been ash on reentry. You do know how this shit normally works right?
>Is seen escaping from all of his exploding bases/mechs/ships each and every time.
With no shrapnel or concussive damage from the explosions or crashes. That would be enough to kill people in the real world, which is why obviously it's not being treated as so. The plot demanded the deaths of Maria and Gerald so they die in a realistic manner. It's not based on realism but the plot, nothing more.
>Keyword.
>posts proof showing that you're full of shit and have no idea what you're talking about since not Sonic is generally assumed to be able to survive such high drops
>it doesn't count because...It just doesn't OKAY!
Concession accepted.
>With no shrapnel or concussive damage from the explosions or crashes.
Still a kids game that can't show visceral details like that. Same for SA1/2 which implicitly have people die but don't show details or StH which has the Black Arms using a deadly neurotoxin to leave everyone dying and debilitated so they can eat them. Doesn't change the fact that it's explicitly a napalm bomb and does what that would imply.
>posts proof
All you did was prove that Sonic characters can survive things that would kill people which was my point. So congrats, you played yourself?
>Still a kids game that can't show visceral details like that.
You say this but then turn around and say the intention was totally that an 8 yo killed dozens of people.
>Same for SA1/2 which implicitly have people die but don't show details
Details don't matter when the point is that they are dead and explicitly say so.
>You say this but then turn around and say the intention was totally that an 8 yo killed dozens of people.
Yes, given what is implicitly hid SA1/2 self in X killed 17 people without a care. And he definitely killed the Battle Kukku's too. Cope about it.
Only Shadow and Sonic, two mobians who are literally the best of the best, have ever survived falling from orbit. And Shadow was treated as being dead at the end of SA2 and only came back because of popularity in the fanbase. Even then, he got total amnesia.
Nobody else in the franchise has ever survived such sheer drops. Not once. And in the BBA's case, they were on fricking fire when they plummeted into the ocean after Tails tore his way through their forces and wiped out the majority of their defensee. They are dead. That is the narrative.
You're the same type of moron who tries to tell people that Knuckles' Big Wave in Forces didn't get 80% of the Resistance killed because we don't see bodies flying and gore splattering everywhere.
Tails, Cream, Amy, Knuckles all fall from orbit in Advance and are perfectly fine when they land
>orbit
*upper stratosphere
Wasn't it from the Death Egg? That's orbit for sure
How high the Death Egg goes varies by the game. Sometimes it's orbit, sometimes it looks to be well within the planet's atmosphere.
He did write that arc and used mandates as an excuse for his after-the-fact terrible story directing and characterization.
>I expect him to job to Surge later on too since Ian only cares about propping up his female oc's.
Ian has no interest in writing Shadow at all since he has to deal with appeasing Sega.
But Sega is fine with letting Ian write Shadow as a a jobber so there should be no issue.
Contrary to popular belief, Ian does not enjoy writing Shadow like that. He would personally prefer if he could write him like in Shadowfall.
It's society problem
why don't kill all humans?
t. Star Butterfly
I think the sega mandates are suffocating this story. Who even ordered these mandates shut doesn't make sense most of time.
>sega mandates are suffocating this story
Ultimately, this is what all our complaints stem from.
Shadow's a moron because Sega wants him portrayed that way, the annoying lesbian OCs get all the focus because Sega won't let the main cast get any development, and the debate about Sonic's morality will lead nowhere because Sega won't let it.
>the debate about Sonic's morality will lead nowhere because Sega won't let it.
Lead to what? She is an villain to anti hero punk like Punisher trying to convince Daredevil or Red Hood pressuring Batman to kill.
This whole comic has been full of people like Shadow, Espio, and Surge trying to get Sonic to kill Eggman. You think that's gonna lead anywhere?
Nta, if Eggman didn't do the whole metal virus then sonic would have a point but that event traumatized a lot of people and had the potential to kill EVERYONE so I understand why characters in the story urge sonic to kill eggman.
Yeah, it'd be easier to let things go if that villain plot involving the virus hadn't been so massive and catastrophic. It looked like everyone on the planet either got infected or had to witness their loved ones turn into zombots.
Its gonna be crazy when this shit continues, don't be surprised of we get a million OC's with more development than the main cast.
At least the Archie reboot came with OCs who had a pre-written backstory so that we didn't need to focus on them more than we had to. Even if that shark dude got too much spotlight.
Seriously, at least Bowser just wants to kidnap a single princess.
To be fair in super mario galaxy bowser did just blitzkrieg the castle, but I get your point.
Implying IDW will live that long.
How will Mimic v Whisper play out?
Reminder that Eggman is not your typical bad guy.
Sega have him as a comic relief antagonist who can do anything he wants to make Eggmanland, except kill. He is seen as more of a sympathetic villain as he enjoys facing off with Sonic, And Sonic - the same with him.
Don't expect Sonic to suddenly want to off Eggman anytime soon, because Sega will not allow that kind of characterization in any form.
Let alone these trash IDW comics.
Fanfics can do it better.
He enslave animals and destroyed the environment in the first game.
So Sonic "no kill rule" is actually over hated while Wander over Yander had the actual massive frick up
Being good and trying to be kind, in a situation when it's even irrational to do and you get no reward, could be seen as a flaw but also the strongest way to hold up a character. Without hope, without witness, without reward
Protecting an abuser and ignoring the cries of their victims for no other reason than satisfying your own preferences, isn’t “kindness”. It is the ultimate form of self-centredness.
Sure it's bad to have some leverage on your nemesis and then make them return the debts in case of an attack from an evil galaxy dimension bumfrick.
You post the Doctor, but that man has more blood on his hands than most heroes or villains combined. And he's entirely willing to dump you into a fate worse than death with zero hesitation the instant you display that you lack the capacity for moral choice or change. See the Family of Blood.
They did a short story where the 13th Doctor let the family of blood little girl go
Fair, but the rest of her family are still trapped in unending hell's for the rest of eternity. And he's fully willing to commit genocide against the Daleks or Cybermen, amongst countless others. He also killed House, permanently trapped the Wire, ended the Beast, etc.
The Doctor is the very embodiment of "when a good man goes to war" as an idiom. He'll push for peace if it's possible, but he will also flat-out kill you or worse if you're a monster with zero signs of reflecting on your actions or growth.
Every high iq character should be arrested for potential danger
Then the cast of IDW Sonic should be perfectly safe.
t Misc Pot
Yes. We both know Tails has probably killed several people. Let's not lie here.
Kek.
Wander over Yander shitty ending just made any argument against Sonic sound so weak by comparison. I mean at least Sonic saved the day after all.
IDW made all of the games canon. How do you cope with eggman never killing when this happened?
Well according to some since we didn't see anyone die or be in real distress, everyone got out of that just fine.
Frick that remeber in SA1 where chaos flooded the entire city, and no one died lmao.
The entire concept was pretty silly to begin with
Surge, "I'm going to be free by following every command of the jackass who brainwashed me" and every simp acting like she and Kit aren't obviously still brainwashed and that her arguments are legitimate.
Her arguments ARE legitimate.
Sonic had literally no rebuttal to the fact he is responsible for everything the billains did after protecting them, because he factually is. All he could do was stick his fingers in his ears like a baby and refuse to be held accountable for the consequences of his own selfish actions.
Cope. Sonic’s a gay.
Her arguments are undermined by the fact that she's never followed through on any of her theories. She's accepted the most negative possibility of her past despite there being other options and is holding a random responsible instead of y'know- the other guy at the base who actually fricked her life up.
Granted if Surge went for Eggman he'd merc her, but I'd have a sliver of respect for her then.
What the frick are you talking about you idiot? Are you actually seething this much over your self-insert being slandered your memory’s fried itself with your cerebellum?
Surge said herself - even while fighting Sonic - that after she kills him she was gonna kill Starline and Eggman. The entire point of keeping Starline alive in the first place was so she and kit could gather all 3 responsible parties in the same place at once so they could kill them all. She said this twice in two different issues.
Classless.
Solicits say Whisper's next, not Eggman, so either her goals are fake or she's under mind control.
Or because the specific circumstance put her near Whisper. Like
said, they're on her shitlist but those 3 are her main goals.
She has as much reason to attack Whisper as she does any random person, fighting the constantly hiding introvert makes no sense when, by her logic, she should be blitzing towns.
...Yes? I haven't brought Sonic once here. The idea of Surge and Kit still being under mind control is interesting to me because it hints that they're still "metal virus" underneath.
She IS in a town. You're judging the issue based off nothing but a cover yet even in the cover you can clearly see she is in a cityscape.
Anon, google what a speed blitz is.
Anon, google the issue solicit. It says she's fighting Sonic's friends, with an 's', plural. She's not going specifically after Whisper but multiple people.
The synopsis even states she's specifically targeting cities and people close to Sonic to draw him out.
>I haven't brought Sonic once here
Her programming revolves around killing Sonic, so he's an inextricable part of this conversation
Few others can even face Eggman in the first place. Sonic's the one who squares up against Eggman on the regular, puts him down, and lets him crawl away to ruin lives another day. By weight of influence, if there is anyone to blame beyond Eggman, it's Sonic. I'm not even trying to say Sonic should be blamed, just that it makes logical sense for characters to do so.
They were going to go for all of them, Sonic was just first on the docket.
I agree that Surge's assumption that her past self was an unwanted nobody is rather flawed and presumptuous. It also does not invalidate the fact that Sonic sparing Eggman time and time again led to Starline mindraping her into a living weapon. Her anger toward Sonic remains legitimate, at least in principle.
By that logic, anyone with a claws and access to Eggman is responsible. Sonic's arguably less responsible there, since he's done the job of putting him away. Anyone can be the executioner.
Sonic's responsible for having proactively protected Eggman, and resurrected Metal Sonic.
Anon, I shouldn't need to explain to you that Sonic's philosophy is based around not caring what people do. He's not guarding Eggman or watching over him.
The only other "friend" fast enough to stop her from blitzing is Shadow and by Sega's own words, Shadow's not a friend.
>Anon, I shouldn't need to explain to you that Sonic's philosophy is based around not caring what people do. He's not guarding Eggman or watching over him.
No, he pretty explicitly tells Surge that he won't allow her to (rightfully) kill Eggman or Starline because he "respects their freedom". He might not say it, but Sonic IS protecting Eggman by keeping anyone else from justifiably enacting actual punishment.
Sonic only doesn't care what you do so long as it doesn't impose on his beliefs of "muh freedom", and he extends this viewpoint even to irredeemable mass murderers and genocidal world dictators.
>he pretty explicitly tells Surge
>He might not say it
Surge stated that her goal was to target not only him but everyone in the world. Sonic told her he won't let her hurt anyone. As usual you're ignoring the whole context to make what he said look as bad as possible.
>Surge stated that her goal was to target not only him but everyone in the world.
That was the opening to the fight, where he's flippant and is trying to introduce himself. I'm referring to when he tells her that he wants the doctors to come around too and won't let her hurt them because reasons.
>I'm referring to when he tells her that he wants the doctors to come around too and won't let her hurt them because reasons.
He never said anything about stopping her from specifically hurting the doctors, he framed his speech to everyone in the world which she was explicitly threatening.
"Everyone in the world" includes the Doctors by default, you realize? More than that, she specifically names both of them as the primary targets for her wrath after Sonic. They're far more important to her revenge than the rest of the world is, and logically by the context of the conversation, Surge being told that even the doctors should be given redemption by Sonic means that most of her anger is at him for letting them go. Likewise, Sonic is directly defending and excusing their actions by trying to stop her from getting even with them for what happened to her.
>"Everyone in the world" includes the Doctors by default, you realize?
Yes and you trying to turn the lens from the world to just Starline and Eggman is your attempt to paint his actions in a different way. Surge never says "I'm here for just Starline and Eggman", she says them 3 and the rest of the world are going to end just because people like him so he's going to stop her because that is her complete goal.
The only reason she brings up the world (notably after mentioning him, Eggman, and Starline in that order) is because the world praises the cycle of Eggman ruining the world and Sonic saving it to let him go to do it again. That's it. It's all very much through the lenses of her vitriol for the doctors and Sonic himself.
If the world wasn't so obsessed with this self-destructive cycle, she probably wouldnt have even cared.
gays like
already hate them depsite not watching them. So I think we are already there, at least on here.
>depsite not watching them
I watched them and I hated them. I knew they would be shit from the beginning. Only reason people ignore all the bad shit is because of the model change, even though they are still the same live action/CGI shit.
>The only reason she brings up the world (notably after mentioning him, Eggman, and Starline in that order) is because the world praises the cycle of Eggman ruining the world and Sonic saving it to let him go to do it again. That's it.
That doesn't change the fact that she threatened the world too. Her reasons don't matter, especially one like that.
Pretty easily disproven: Sonic spent time traveling all over the world while Eggman was in a village. Anyone who knew about him could have merc'd him with minimal effort. Your idea only works if you think everyone else is physically incapable of killing the guy.
...
Anon.
Anon anon anon.
It's getting to the point where I can tell it's you because of how CONSTANTLY you get words wrong.
Guarding =/= Guarded. It's a separate tense with a completely different meaning. You're arguing the latter while missing that I used the former. I'm not going to defend things I didn't say, I'm still bored with the Sonic side of this, and frankly, I've tried to keep you on track enough. Go be an illiterate tryhard somewhere else.
>Anyone who knew about him could have merc'd him with minimal effort.
Who would? The only ones who knew about Tinker besides Sonic were the Chaotix, Shadow, and Rouge. And out of those who would want him dead, Shadow was dismissed, mocked and told to stand down and Espio had no intention of going against Vector simply to off Tinker.
...And? Your argument was about responsibility, not characterization. Is this the other guy?
>Your argument
I never made any argument like that. I was calling you a moron for trying to argue that Sonic wasn't blatantly shielding Eggman from the consequences of his own actions. Take your meds. Maybe then you'll understand that there are multiple people calling you a dumbass.
Then you're not the guy I was talking with, I've been talking about
>Sonic's responsible for having proactively protected Eggman, and resurrected Metal Sonic.
Which is a responsibility argument. As keeping on topic is the mar
... You know what? I don't get anything out of this. You people are stupid. I'm out.
Sonic DID keep Shadow from killing Eggman/Tinker though. And he got Metal Sonic fixed and let him go to do whatever, despite the fact that he knows Metal is hardwired to be entirely loyal to Eggman.
Why the frick are you arguing against shit we explicitly observe over the course of the narrative?
Saying shit as it actually happens in the comic makes the character he lives vicariously through look bad. Many such cases.
>no argument, only ad hominem
You can't argue in good faith that "S-S-Sonic's deep and wise philosophy is based around not caring what people do" when Sonic repeatedly and passionately does care what others do.
And cares about it so much that he actively interferes with what people do, to everyone's detriment. Protecting Eggman. Reviving Metal. Sonic cared enough to make both those decisions, and is accountable for the aftermath of both for being the self-centred moron who made both those decisions to interfere with the lives of everyone - for no other reason that it would trigger his fragile sensibilities if someone else does something he doesn't approve of.
That's beyond, "caring", that's being an oversensitive b***h who can't stomach the world not running how you want it to.
Yeah, no shit. I don't care enough about you to post anything because you're moronic. Your statements are made on assumptions and you're constantly misinterpreting words.
>claims ad hominem
>Calls the other poster an oversensitive b***h who can't stomach the world not running how you want it to.
You're a moron and your illiteracy is causing problems. It's not an ad hominem argument, I honestly believe you're stupid.
>had to delete and remake his post just to get the extra "own" on a person whose arguments he claims to not care about
Lmao.
Refer to
An insult against Sonic the Hedgehog is not an insult against you. Stop projecting your insecure ego onto a 1-dimension cartoon character.
You have no argument, Sonic is an oversensitive crybaby b***h who is responsible for what Eggman and Metal did.
>Sonic is an oversensitive crybaby b***h
You can dislike him all you want but that is literally just plain wrong.
>throws a fit because other people wanna kill Eggman
I thought your narrative was "Sonic's deep philosophies are about not caring what others do"? Clearly if he's so upset by others doing their own thing that he fights them, he therefore does care about what others do, and greatly so
I'm not that anon, just pointing out that Sonic doesn't cry or whine or act like a little b***h. He does the exact opposite in all cases. Standing up to someone just as powerful as you to protect someone with the chance of redemption isn't really a 'bitch' move.
Sonic literally got annoyed at Shadow for trying to preemptively off Tinker and avoid the return of Eggman entirely and mocked him over the course of the situation. Tails tried to warn him off from fixing Metal and got dismissed. Sonic himself gets annoyed at Surge for brushing him off, when he himself was actively ignoring her points and her increasing state of instability.
IDW Sonic isn't emotional in the way an actual person is because of Sega mandates, but he very clearly does get sensitive when people question his judgement or philosophy.
Ok but that's still not being a sensitive crybaby b***h anon. That's called having your own morals and guidelines.
Like, this is Sonic the Hedgehog. Why WOULDN'T He be wienery and mocking people when that's been his entire personality since the 90s?
Sonic didn't kick Merlina when she was down and her goals had failed, despite making himself the villain in her story. He was willing to hear her out and disagreed with her endgoal, but was also willing to inspire her to live for herself and enjoy the time her world still had.
IDW Sonic literally gets mad the instant anyone disagrees with his choices and insists he's in the right, despite hypocritically defending the freedoms of people who work solely to steal the freedom of everybody else. He goes from simply wienery into being an actual bonafide psychopath.
>Sonic literally gets mad the instant anyone disagrees with his choices
Now you're just making shit up to suit your own needs. Sonic didn't get mad at Surge at all during the entire fight. He was at the most disappointed in her, while also just having fun fighting.
I just went back and read through the comic and there is not a single panel where sonic is "mad" at Surge.
Stop making shit up.
>Sonic didn't get mad at Surge at all during the entire fight.
His face when she doubles down and states that "Nobody is looking for her" radiates clear annoyance. Or at least as much as he's allowed to be. Stop being autistic. You do not need to be a frothing berserker shouting obscenities to be mad or frustrated at someone.
Disappointment is not frustration anon.
And also taking one single panel of one single expression and claiming he was like that the entire fight just shows how disingenuous you are about all this.
Seems pretty buttmad to me.
Imagine shitting your diaper as hard as Sonic does just because not everyone in the world agrees with what you want.
Seems more annoyed at Shadow for wanting to kill someone now completely harmless. "Buttmad" isn't what I would call just being himself and doing what he does for everyone.
The fact you're calling it "shitting his diaper" once again shows you are not here to actually argue about this in any genuine way. You just want to cause shit as
pointed out.
I'm not that anon, there are multiple people calling you stupid. Getting mad the instant anyone disagrees with his beliefs is the shining symptom of being oversensitive
>Getting mad the instant anyone disagrees with his beliefs
Shadow is genuinely trying to kill someone in that scene. Like that anon said, you're being disingenuous.
yet he DID guard Eggman, and he did care enough about Metal to literally bring metal back from the dead and then set him free
Both can be true at once. The girl was lashing out in frustration and followed her programming in doing so. It was the path of least resistance and, frankly, her grievance with Sonic made sense. Her emotions and Starline's mental imperative fed off and amplified each other, turning Surge into a neon green ball of hate.
Sonic is a morally developed person who just has the persona of a happy go lucky teenager
The Joker shoots a 6-year old girl in the forehead in front of their parents, then makes fun of them while they stare at her splattered corpse:
Batman returns Joker back to Arkham, where he is detained for as long as they can possibly hold him
Eggman shoots a 6-year old girl in the forehead in front of their parents, then makes fun of them while they stare at her splattered corpse: Sonic throws a little-b***h tantrum over “muh freedom” and “muh spirit of the wind”, starts crying and hitting the child’s father when the father tries to shoot Eggman, then carries Eggman away to safety and returns him back to his HQ far far away from the authorities
>Eggman tries to shoot a 6-year old girl in the forehead but Sonic races in and destroys the weapon or mecha he was using, Eggman flies off, and Sonic leave.
ftfy
Except when he does get away with committing a crime, as he did many times in IDW, Sonic will throw a fit and protect Eggman from Eggman's victims, for no other reason than it would upset Sonic personally
>Except when he does get away with committing a crime, as he did many times in IDW, Sonic will throw a fit and protect Eggman from Eggman's victims
Seems like you've invented a narrative in your head. In IDW, the only time Sonic protected Eggman was when he was Tinker.
>the only time Sonic protected Eggman was the time he protected Eggman
Thank you, anon. Very enlightening.
He also had Tails rebuild and release Metal Sonic, to boot. And it was his decision to send the Zeti back home, which even Zavok rightfully called him an idiot for.
Nice dodging your incorrect narrative.
>He also had Tails rebuild and release Metal Sonic
Repaired him enough to move, deweaponized him, in a world where Eggman was gone. Starline taking Tinker and pushing him back enough to Eggman for Metal to trigger his memories was not something anyone saw coming.
>And it was his decision to send the Zeti back home
Their home which is an isolated planetoid in the sky, functioning as a more effective prison than a regular one would. Only reason they got off it in the first place was because of Starline and the Warp Topaz. Zavok was calling him an idiot for not killing them, not about jailing them.
>no argument
Sonic saved Eggman from Shadow. Eggman caused Metal Virus. Sonic is autistically incapable of admitting to anyone it was a mistake to save Eggman, and would do it again.
Bringing Metal back to life in spite of the dangers he could cause down the way, against even Tails own protests when Tails is the one rebuilding him, makes Sonic personally responsible for anything Metal would do when it was Sonic who insisted they revive Metal
Zavok's gotten off Lost World more times than he's escaped prison - which was also only thanks to Starline.
>no argument
Just because you can't refute it, doesn't make it not an argument.
>Sonic saved Eggman from Shadow
Sonic saved Mr. Tinker from Shadow. What happened after was the fault of Starline.
>Metal
With no one capable of repairing him he was never going to be a real threat.
>Zavok's gotten off Lost World more times than he's escaped prison
Only time he's gotten off was in IDW. Runners and TSR aren't canon to it for obvious reasons.
You haven't given any argument. Sonic protected Eggman when someone else tried to kill him. Shadow warned that Tinker was gonna revert, and Sonic protected him anyway. Sonic was, by every definition of the term, wrong for protecting him.
>he was never going to be a real threat
Yet he was, and did. Sonic was once again, mistaken for literally bringing Metal back from the dead - waiting for the next opportunity ot be fixed and cause more suffering because of Sonic's chronic stupidity and selfishness
>TSR aren't canon
Provide even a single source for this.
>You haven't given any argument.
Like I said before, just because you can't counter it doesn't make it not an argument.
>Sonic protected Eggman when someone else tried to kill him.
Sonic protected Mr. Tinker. You keep changing that to Eggman because you know the context makes a difference. The Chaotix, Rouge, the villagers and even Shadow agreed to his decision at the time.
>Shadow warned that Tinker was gonna revert, and Sonic protected him anyway.
He did not, he wanted to take down Tinker even if he never reverted. After confirming Eggmanland was harmless, Shadow left without any more fuss.
>Yet he was, and did.
Because of Starline.
>Provide even a single source for this.
IDW frames it that Zavok hasn't met Eggman since Lost World yet TSR has him working for Eggman for no reason despite having a kill on-site goal for Eggman. Use your brain.
People agreeing with you does not make you right. Sonic protected Eggman - or "Tinker" if that's honestly the best defence you have of your self-insert, lol - against warning that something would cause him to revert. And he did revert. Guess what? Sonic was wrong for making Shadow spare him, and those lives are on his hands.
>IDW frames it that Zavok hasn't met Eggman since Lost World
when?
>Sonic protected Eggman - or "Tinker" if that's honestly the best defence you have of your self-insert
It is literally the reason why Sonic and the others left him alone. If you can't accept the basic facts of the story then that's on you.
>against warning that something would cause him to revert
No one warned him on that. Shadow wanted to punish him simply because of his past deeds. When he did his own check on Tinker, he left without pushing the issue any longer even though he certainly could.
>when?
When Starline was researching them, the events of TSR never came up and Zavok constantly goes on about getting revenge on Eggman which is completely incongruous with working for Eggman like he did in TSR.
Thats the point, why is the only flaw Sonic's allowed to have is being egocentric?
Anon, I fricking IMPLORE you, if your short-term memory is this terrible then just stop seething over the OC and reread the fricking comic.
Surge said herself that she wants to get revenge on the rest of the world as well. Her brainwashing is to make her want to destroy Sonic, not to destroy everyone else. That came from her.
Sonic, Starline and Eggman are simply the priorities - as the 3 most guilty parties to what happened to her.
Not to mention, we have no idea how Whisper features into the story. For all we know, she just stumbles onto Surge in the midst of her transformation.
Why yes, I'm a persistent protector of peace and a humble hero. What gave it away?
And this is why Sonic should never have any kind of serious moment.
Maybe this whole ordeal will finally put that realization through your heads.
Fleetway's adventures-of-the-week were a million times better than IDW's boring overdramatic slogs for this very reason.
lolno
I won't say IDW is good in any way, but putting Fleetway in any kind of pedestal is moronic.
>no relationshit drama
>only a few OCs, focus was always on Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy
>Sonic is competent and endearingly obnoxious
>Knux is likable and competent
>echidna bullshit limited to one villain
>crazy dimension-hopping and pirates and cool new villains like Brutus and Metamorphia
>they actually try to capture Robotnik
>based Grimer is actually loyal, unlike Snively and Gayline
I won't say it was groundbreaking, but it was fun and imaginative in a gonzo way, something that IDW and Archie never really managed.
>no relationshit drama
No characters to give relationships to.
>only a few OCs, focus was always on Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy
There were entire stories dedicated to Shortfuse or other OC's.
>Sonic is competent and endearingly obnoxious
Debatable, and no respectively.
>Knux is likable and competent
Knuckles screws up several times.
>crazy dimension-hopping and pirates and cool new villains like Brutus and Metamorphia
Archie also had "crazy dimension-hopping" and original villains. So I'm not sure what your point is beyond "Fleetway good anything else bad".
>they actually try to capture Robotnik
Robotnik was outright put in jail in Archie, X and a number of other continuities. Only IDW and Modern let him go free to do whatever.
This entire post is shitty bait. 0/10.
>No characters to give relationships to.
You just named several. Sonic, Knux, Amy, Tekno, etc.
>There were entire stories dedicated to Shortfuse or other OC's.
Fair enough, but we didn't have five different whiners stealing the plot from an already-bloated cast in every arc. Hell, the Chaotix didn't even show up that much.
>Debatable, and no respectively.
You people love to whine about what an butthole he is, but his dickery mostly just meant being brusque with his friends. You act like he beat Tails regularly or some shit.
>Knuckles screws up several times.
He doesn't trust Eggman five times in a row like a moron, and he flies the Floating Island like a mech, trounces Dr. Zachary and several other villains, and doesn't waste all his screentime on his abusive dad and a Cabal of Secret Grandpas.
>Archie also had "crazy dimension-hopping" and original villains. So I'm not sure what your point is beyond "Fleetway good anything else bad".
Yes, but the focus was always on some stupid shit like Sally slapping Sonic, or Knuckles' butthole ancestors, or the shitty Acorn monarchy, or a million other stupid things that made Archie a chore to read. Fleetway's focus was on adventure and entertainment, not endless worldbuilding and drama.
>Robotnik was outright put in jail in Archie, X and a number of other continuities. Only IDW and Modern let him go free to do whatever.
I wasn't talking about X, I was talking about Archie and IDW. Sure, Eggman is killed and driven crazy in Archie, but he's resurrected/escapes like five issues later. Dr. Finitevus probably did more to stop him by wrecking the Egg Grapes with Knuxerjak than any of the heroes did.
>You just named several. Sonic, Knux, Amy, Tekno, etc.
Oh right, I forgot that Amy and Tekno were pretty gay for each other. Thanks for reminding me.
>You people love to whine about what an butthole he is, but his dickery mostly just meant being brusque with his friends.
What is emotional abuse for $350, Alex? Even ignoring this, you had him treating Tails like shit for saving his life from the Drakkon and the whole "Freedom Fighters actually start visibly doing better emotionally and together when Sonic is away" thing.
>He doesn't trust Eggman five times in a row like a moron, and he flies the Floating Island like a mech, trounces Dr. Zachary and several other villains, and doesn't waste all his screentime on his abusive dad and a Cabal of Secret Grandpas.
Knuckles literally faslls for several basic tricks and nearly gets himself killed like a dumbass in most of his solo stories. What the FRICK are you talking about?
>Yes, but the focus was always on some stupid shit
>lists shit that wasnt even integral to any main plot
If you'd brought up say, the fricking Naugus thing or DESTINY you might have had a point. Instead you outed yourself as having not read anything in Archie beyond the most memeable sequences.
>comparing Fleetway to Gargoyles
You are a Chris-chan tier disingenuous schizo.
>Oh right, I forgot that Amy and Tekno were pretty gay for each other. Thanks for reminding me.
Whoop-de-doo, they still had adventures and shit instead of slapping eachother and having hurt/comfort fics about an evil octopus OC.
>What is emotional abuse for $350, Alex? Even ignoring this, you had him treating Tails like shit for saving his life from the Drakkon and the whole "Freedom Fighters actually start visibly doing better emotionally and together when Sonic is away" thing.
He could be a c**t, sure, but he wasn't actively cuckolding Tails with Fiona or letting Eggman escape again and again. I'll take an effective hero who's a bit of an ass.
>Knuckles literally faslls for several basic tricks and nearly gets himself killed like a dumbass in most of his solo stories. What the FRICK are you talking about?
He got captured from time to time, but he always broke free and kicked the bad guys' ass. He brokered peace with those tree people and those triceratops ghosts as well.
>If you'd brought up say, the fricking Naugus thing or DESTINY you might have had a point. Instead you outed yourself as having not read anything in Archie beyond the most memeable sequences.
Fair point about DESTINY, I forgot to mention that, but the Naugus thing is just part of the shitty Acorn monarchy, like Max's dickery and Sally's mood-swinging and overall ineffectuality. And you can't just say that Knuckles' boring-ass ancestors didn't figure into any main plot. They WERE the main plot of his Archie series.
Fleetway to Gargoyles
>You are a Chris-chan tier disingenuous schizo.
It just came to mind as something I liked. I'm not "comparing" them beyond saying I liked both, what the frick are you on about?
And yet no one talks about it unless it's in relation to Archie/IDW.
Because IDW is ongoing and Archie was a hilarious trainwreck.
Archie is also dead but people can still talk about the parts they like without making it a competition.
You'd think, but no, both IDW and Archie fans take things way too personally.
Sounds to me you just want to shit on them but don't like people disagreeing with you.
Thats entirely because Fleetwaygays literally cannot justify a thread on their own. They'll always open by shitting on Archie or IDW because they know Fleetway can't hold water in any argument otherwise.
>Fleetwaygays literally cannot justify a thread on their own.
Because Cinemaphile has shit taste and only talks about things it can bicker or shitpost about. You know why nobody makes threads about Gargoyles? Because it was actually good, and so there were no moronic arguments to be had about shipping or how Goliath should just kill the Joker or whatever.
Gargoyles is overrated as frick, villain end up being a literal evil clone of the protagonist, Goliath is the only Gargoyle with any kind of relevant development, nothing about their species society makes sense.
>comic writers have a hero kill a villain or have them at the pivotal moment of killing them
>it always spirals off into that "hero going insane and becoming a villain" or "you do this, you're no better then they are"
Pretty funny how the Avengers are pretty much all killers, most of the bad guys don't last more than one movie
To be fair. Those are the movies where the writers don't have to worry about maintaining a rogues gallery.
If only New Jersey had Capital Punishment and the police knew the difference between a man suffering thru a mental illness and a psychopath relishing in mayhem and put him in real jail, Maybe Batman didn't have to kill the Joker and let the justice system do it for him.
Why do people not mind cutesy designs in serious stories but when Sonic attempts it, people get all uppity?
Probably because of how many times Sonic Team and assorted writers have failed to make it work. Per my tastes there have been successes, but then I'm a shameless SA2 fan.
Ian should just do what DC did and make Sonic gay for Eggman
it's funny, people say boundaries are important but are quick to turn if they don't like yours
>boundaries
>actively stopping other people from saving the world by killing Eggman is "boundaries"
It's not. It's Sonic interfering in other people's boundaries.
Sonic didn't do anything wrong, end of story. Nothing to see here folks
Shut up, Tails.
Honestly? I can see this as being the rare something that Tails wouldn't follow
Same energy
Man
Sonic really is just the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he. It seems like every one step forward is like five steps backwards no matter what the franchise does.
People seemed to like the movies.
Once upon a time Color’s story was beloved by the fanbase. Give it time, eventually the fanbase will turn on the movies. People already hate all the non-Eggman human scenes in the movies.
>Color’s story was beloved by the fanbase
...Colors barely HAD a story, it might as well have not had a story at all.
I never liked the Colors story, and the Sonic movies' appeal extends to normies. Sonic fans are impossible to please because as a group they are far too granular.
>Color’s story was beloved by the fanbase
It was the lack of a story that was "beloved" by the "Sonic's shitty friends" crowd.
The movies and fan content are good. Everything else? A game of Russian roulette in the extreme.
>The movies and fan content are good.
I remember being excited about IDW when it was first announced. I regret that now.
It's like Star Wars. The Prequels sucked in an over-the-top way, and the Sequels sucked because they were boring and uncreative.
Sonic and Star Wars both just keep finding new and impressive ways to suck.
>Star Wars
The one where Luke refused to kill both Sidious and Vader even though they were exploding entire planets and killing billions just to show off how evil they are?
In fairness to Luke, he did try to off Sheev. He just failed to do so.
Luke took down Vader and Sidious was unarmed, but then he said literally "IF I KILL YOU I WILL BE JUST LIKE YOU" and threw his weapon away while the empire was nuking his friends with their giant weapon used to kill billions of civilians a few months ago
I don't recall Luke saying anything about not offing the Emperor, just that he wouldn't get baited into killing his dad.
Sidious was right next to him, why do you think he threw his weapon away rather than running at him? Nevermind the fact sparing Vader is just as bad.
Sparing Vader turned out to be the right call for both Luke and the galaxy at large (until Disney took the helm at least). I'm sure Luke could have tried giving the Emperor a whack but doubt it would have ended much differently. Not sure if Luke threw the lightsaber because he knew he had no chance against the Emperor or because he felt defiant and just wanted to flip the bird.
Yeah, people in Star Wars never seemed to have much of an issue killing bad guys. Just look at Darth Maul, Jango Fett, Grievous, etc.
>no argument
And the 'oversensitive b***h' part was referring to Sonic throwing a tantrum that others wanna do stuff he doesn't like. Maybe stop self-inserting on a 1-dimensional cerealbox character and it'll be easier for you to distinguish yourself, hmm?
>Watching the thread pointlessly burning itself out until auto-sage
>"If you insult muh Sonic that means you are literally insulting me!"
Christ the absolute state of Sonicgays
No
Female Tails? I like it.
>Ian Flynn stated that the events of Team Sonic Racing happened off screen at some point just before the "Zeti Hunt" arc. (BumbleKast for May 18th, 2022, minute 23:30)
>the events of Team Sonic Racing
Who the frick even cares?
Sure, why not
That question was about the characters having the cars from the game, not the canoncity of TSR. This one is actually about that:
50:34
>Q:Since Vector's car from Team Sonic Racing appears in issue 48, are we to assume that the events of Team Sonic Racing have happened in the comic's continuity? If so, when could it have possibly taken place?
Ian: I dunno, Pre-Forces?
Kyle: Sure, sure why not? Whatever, wherever you want it to.
Ian: Or if you say since it came out after Forces therefore it must happen after Forces, then somewhere after Metal Virus saga.
Who is Kyle? I see this name come up a lot whenever Ian is brought up.
His co-host, the one who sets up the whole podcast for him.
>Now that the dust has settled
Every time someone says this I mentally picture some loser desperately trying to kick the dust back up for attention.
Someone TLDR me?
Why was Issue 50 such a big deal?
Why was this issue so divisive?
Sonic adapting an overly smug Batman-like philosophy for dealing with his enemies despite the fact his enemy at the time, Surge, was dangerously unstable and lobbing debatebly-valid accusations at him for everything bad that happens in the world, including her brainwashing and reprogramming by a homosexual duck, being his fault for not finishing his enemies.
Part me of really wants Sega to attempt "damage control" on this, demanding Ian (and maybe Evan, I don't know if she's doing it too) to stop calling out attention to this "Sonic's the reason why bad shit happens" plot that can't go anywhere, because it's making Sonic look bad.
The only reason Sonic is even getting written like this is because Sega literally approved it. Even if they did decide to double-back (which they never will) Ian wouldn't care, since he's no longer in charge and doing writing for Frontiers and Evan would just put in more stuff with Belle and other OC's instead.
I doubt Sega is aware of the specifics involved since Ian only has to submit the broad strokes of what he's writing to them.
Doesn't change the fact social media at this point is openly reacting to Sonic being a "bad hero", and they've reacted to social media in the past.
>I doubt Sega is aware of the specifics involved since Ian only has to submit the broad strokes of what he's writing to them.
Sega gets the whole package including the script. They made revisions to it before so no, it's not a case of being ignorant.
I'd rather the opposite. If Flynn/Evans are trying to stealth-strong arm Sega into letting them do some actual character development, more power to them.
Anon, just read the comic yourself and do not fall for completely biased summaries.
Form your own God damned opinion.
https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Sonic-the-Hedgehog-2018/Issue-50?id=200911
Villain has her life ruined because of Eggman/Starline
Blames Sonic for protecting Eggman/Starline earlier on in the comic
Sonic's response is basically "Well I think Eggman is gonna redeem himself one day if I keep saving him, and I don't care how many people he hurts in the process before that happens:
Cue Sonicgays jumping to make it seem like their fave character is somehow in the right for this and most everyone else doing "Why doesn't Batman kill The Joker" except with Sonic
>Blames Sonic for protecting Eggman/Starline earlier on in the comic
Sonic never protected Starline
Sonic is attacked by Surge, a female tenrec who has been brainwashed and cybernetically altered into a killing machine by Dr. Starline. She is pissed at Sonic because he kept letting Eggman and Starline escape, and so she vows to kill all three of them, holding them responsible for her being made into a monster.
They fight, and Sonic is a bit dismissive of her anger, and restates his commitment to giving villains a second chance. This pisses off Surge even more, and she vows to burn down Sonic and his ideals and "dance on the ashes."
Sonic beats her, and now Anons are arguing about whether or not Surge was right and Sonic should've killed/imprisoned Eggman and Starline.
It's a kid's comic so killing is off the table. Best bet would be the imprisonment option but the issue with Sonic as a franchise is that there are no villains outside Eggman. All original villains are either connected to Eggman, released by Eggman or simply not interesting enough to hold water.
An interesting idea assassinated by clumsy writing
Enough about whether Sonic would kill Eggman or not. What about whether the other characters would kill him or not. To start, would Knuckles kill him?
Knuckles strikes me as too honorable of a guy to do something like that. Putting Eggman in traction to keep him out of trouble for a while? That I could see.
Knuckles probably wouldn't kill him, but would definitely imprison him for a good while. Tails, at least in IDW, is oddly rather blaise about seemingly shutting off Kit's vital functions and notably DIDN'T agree for or against leaving Eggman around or trying to redeem him and Metal. So I think he'd be more likely to off him given the chance. There's also the fact he used some pretty explicitly lethal weaponry to wipe out the Battle Birds, so it's not like he's against it inherently.
Shadow and Omega would 100% kill him and are likely only kept from doing so because he escapes/Rouge is there to kerp them on a leash.
Why would Rouge object to letting them kill him?
Rouge is many things, but tolerating killing is probably a step too far for her.
Except for Archie Rouge, she was perfectly fine with condemnding people to death.
Ian said on his podcast that Rouge isn’t a killer but if Shadow were to throw a villain off a cliff she wouldn’t lose sleep over it.
That sounds about right. Rouge doesn't strike me as especially viscious and wouldn't be keen to play assassin, but recognizes that some thinks need to happen and hey Shadow can handle the dirty work right?
Sounds about right. Do the crime, pay the time.
It's slapstick, but that's mostly because it's a game. Pretty certain he actually killed them pretty fricking dead there. You just can't depict the logical implications of his massacre of the Battle Birds because it's still Sonic media and they're not going to go that far visually. Sort of like how Maria obviously dies, but we never see the body or the actual results of the shot directly.
>Sort of like how Maria obviously dies, but we never see the body or the actual results of the shot directly.
They explicitly say that Maria was killed. That's not an accurate comparison.
Rouge tried dropping Chris from a height like 2 or 3 times in Sonic X
Bad for business. Also because Rouge, at least in the games, probably isn't the sort to go straight to murder. It's more fun to play keep away with the emeralds from Eggman anyhow.
>seemingly shutting off Kit's vital functions
To be fair, I wouldn't have expected shutting off a seemingly-external device to have any kind of effects on the user's health either.
I still wanna know why that even is, instead of just having it be a backpack. Seems like a design flaw.
Maybe a failsafe Starline built into Kit in the event he was captured?
What you consider a design flaw, Starline considers a control feature. Likely in the event Kitsunami ever became uncontrollable and he didn't have the glove to reboot him, just turn off his pack after he runs out. Problem solved.
Yeah, but Tails doesn't even really react in the way you'd expect to if you'd just accidentally killed someone. He basically goes "Oh no...Anyway." and goes on with what he was doing. Doesn't even try to restart him either, he just carries what is effectively his corpse back to Sonic.
It's a very casual reaction to what is basically murder. Sure, it fits with the fandom's interpretation of Tails, but it's just weird to see in official media.
He says later he's 90% sure Kit's just passed out. I don't think it's supposed to be read like that
He didn't know Kit was passed out at the point where he did it. All he says there is "oh no, I hope I didn't shut off his vital functions!" and that's it. It doesn't read like he was especially worried if he actually killed him or just knocked him out, is the thing.
I really do not see Tails as someone who'd be so flippant about accidentally killing a guy he was just trying to talk down. He's a kid, not a stone cold sociopath.
If Tails thought he'd actually killed Kit he'd probably start freaking out pretty hard.
You're exaggerating. When Kit failed to respond he immediately worried if he shut down any vital functions. If Tails thought it did he would have done something instead of carrying him later on.
>When Kit failed to respond he immediately worried if he shut down any vital functions.
You don't just go " Oh no" if you think you accidentally offed someone.
>If Tails thought it did he would have done something instead of carrying him later on.
Headcanon.
This is the same Tails who waged a singlehanded war of extermination against the Battle Birds. He's a kid, but he also has a body count involving napalm bombs and more.
Your evidence that he actually killed any of them being...? Also aren't the old 2D games considered to be a separate universe now? It wouldn't matter much either way, given how inconsistent Miles of Murder would be with the other games.
>Your evidence that he actually killed any of them being...?
Not him, but even ignoring that he shoots them with napalm, with them getting charred and falling offscreen, you have a few moments where he causes them to get crushed by rocks or environmental hazards. It's slapstick, but the fact that he wipes them all out and does nothing to help even when their Armada starts crashing and burning into open ocean makes it kind of clear that he fricked them up.
>Also aren't the old 2D games considered to be a separate universe now?
The events of Classic still happened in the Modern universe. The only thing that changed both into separate timelines was Generations causing Classic Eggman to deviate and build the Hard-Boiled Heavies instead of doing his normal plots, which made a divergence. Both shared the same history until then.
>It's slapstick
To me, this invalidates any concern that Tails the 10 year-old child is actually killing people.
>post proof and explains why it isn't visceral because this shit is still for kids
>this invalidates the argument that the game for kids with Tails using literal napalm to wipe out the armada won't obviously depict what happens when he does that
Concession accepted.
Sorry, Tails the *8* year-old mass murderer is both silly on its own and inconsistent with portrayals in pretty much every other piece of Sonic media. So going to keep saying it's absurd.
Don’t the cast all try and kill Eggman in the classic games?
Yes.
Sega very much does care. It's why the mandates exist.
NO the fricking mandates make no sense if I caught you writing my characters this badly I'd fire you on the spot.
Corporate decisions can be and too often are incredibly moronic. Hell, look at all the awfully written sequels like Jurassic World Dominion or the more recent Terminator films. So long as they think it will make money, to the suits the writing is good. Plain and simple.
Tails literally pilots weapons of mass destruction in the games and has an arm-cannon in Battle. It perfectly fits with his early identity as the plucky but powerful sidekick. It doesn't fit post-Colors Tails, but that isn't a character so who the frick cares.
The enemy Tails faces on the regular are robots. Some of them have animals inside that need freeing. He's not going happy go lucky blood-spattered school shooter with those machines.
Tails isn't going to kill them because they're innocent creatures. The BBA were destructive, genocidal conquerors threatening his home. There's a difference.
Tails isn't going to kill anyone, because he is a child.
>Tails isn't going to kill anyone
Every single Battle Bird.
>he is a child
So is Sonic. Didn't keep him from killing the shit out of Solaris or trapping Erazor forever in what might as well have been hell.
Elise killed Solaris, who wasn't even a person in any conventional sense, just one big destructive force made out of a smaller destructive force and a vindictive butthole. Erazor was an immortal genie and not dead which is going to be a step too far for a child.
>Battle Birds
It was Looney Tunes, get over it.
>Elise killed Solaris, who wasn't even a person in any conventional sense, just one big destructive force made out of a smaller destructive force and a vindictive butthole.
Mephiles was close enough to a person to communicate and was the mind of Solaris, and Sonic directly contributed to offing it.
>Erazor was an immortal genie and not dead which is going to be a step too far for a child.
Trapping someone forever is arguably worse than killing them.
>It was Looney Tunes, get over it.
Napalm isn't Looney Tunes, autismo.
He broke down because he loved Cosmo and didn't want to lose her. If he could kill Dark Oak without losing her, he'd have gladly done so.
>Sonic directly contributed to offing it
He contributed to beating it. Elise is the one who blew it out and there was literally no other way to save the world otherwise.
>Trapping someone forever is arguably worse than killing them.
Not to a child.
>Napalm isn't Looney Tunes, autismo.
But getting blown up with dynamite, eating buckshot, and getting set on fire in *other* ways are all on the other side of that big red line. Of course, makes total sense.
>If he could kill Dark Oak without losing her, he'd have gladly done so
Headcanon
Tails was trying to kill Dark Oak in both his 1st and 2nd phases. He killed 2 Metarex just trying to off Oak in phase 1. He was gonna try and kill Oak in phase 3 as well before Cosmo stepped up to die, even though that meant Sonic and Shadow would probably be killed trying.
Cosmo only had to die in phase 3, after 3 entire episodes of trying to kill Oak.
>Headcanon
moron
Tails killed 15 people in X, all of whom had names.
The series does not treat him as a child, their ages are largely arbitrary.
Then provide names. Thead's going to be archived soon anyway.
Dark Oak (Lucas)
Pale Bayleaf
Black Narcissus
Yellow Zelkova (assisted)
Red Pine (accidental but was dogfighting with him anyway)
Metarex Carrer
Metarex Spike
Gillmans
Jumpee
Crystal
Kingape
Kingape’s brother
Deserd (attempted, Shadow finished him off)
Metarex Viper boss
Cosmo
All of whom were confirmed in-series to be alive.
Tails decapitated the first 3 while they screamed in pain.
Tails broke down over Cosmo because he loved her. All the other cast, including 18 year old Rouge, were also crying over her death. You are being disingenuous.
Damn, X Tails has a hitlist
Boy took no shit.
Got any clips?
He killed Cosmo per her request and broke down over it because he is a child. Tails never knowingly tried to kill anyone.
Kids are cruel, anon. and I'm very in touch with my inner child!
Not him, Tails is 8.
But to be fair even in slapstick games they do kill enemies. Kirby kills almost all his enemies. Old game creators just kinda assumed you wanted to kill the badguys before media started getting all moralhomosexual.
>That's not an accurate comparison.
It is. Because it adheres to the same principle you homosexual's use in these arguments; no obvious blood or gore? Not dead. Same reasoning you'd use to dismiss the Battle Birds getting merc'd.
Hell, fricking EVERYONE is saying that the gay duck is dead because that's the obvious creative intent And was directly confirmed by Ian, but you still have morons saying he's alive because there wasn't a graphic corpse shown.
>It is. Because it adheres to the same principle
No it doesn't. Nothing ever says or suggests that Tails killed the BBA, but SA2/ShtH goes out of it's way to conform that Maria is dead and was killed by GUN. Her death is a relevant plot beat device. It's nowhere near ambiguous.
>Headcanon
>the character not being OOC is headcanon
Are you really over reacting to this scene?
>over reacting
>literally shows Tails not doing shit after shutting Kit down
His eyes are pretty shocked. He probably checked him immediately since he tells Sonic afterwards that Kit’s just fine
>Enemy screaming for help and crying before getting possibly murdered
Wow, very heroic™
Tails - Not enough evidence for either side, Tails hasn't really seen enough action away from Sonic to tell what his personality is like on solo quests. Tails Adventure kinda implied he's ok using lethal force, but I wouldn't rely on that
Knuckles - No. Happened in X, after the S3&K adaptations. Even when he's not tricked and Eggman fricks him over badly he still doesn't try to kill Eggman. All he really cares about is "muh emeroowds" I guess so that makes sense he isn't gonna go out of his way for revenge
Amy - ehh, leaning towards no. She's the typically sweet but bossy girl character, can't see those two things ever fitting
Blaze - Yes. Can and has tried, many times.
Shadow - Yes, obviously. He actually did it once, or at least in one route of his game
Omega - hahahaha
Chaotix - No. Vector's too nice, Charmy's too innocent and Espio's just an edgy chuuni, he doesn't have the bite
Rouge - Yes. Don't forget she tried killing Chris like 3 times in X. And Flying Dog pilot is 100% dead
Big/Cream - No, too stupid/naive
Babylons - Yes. They're villains.
Whisper - Already tried
>Tails
I feel like Tails would be pragmatic enough to acknowledge the value in offing Eggman yet moral enough to feel extremely uncomfortable with the idea.
I think it's mostly circumstantial. Like, say on a normal day, Sonic is taking a nap and it's up to Tails to stop Eggman and he does. Of course he wouldn't try to fry the egg for good but I could maybe see him trying to detain him just so that he doesn't hurt more people in the long run.
Now, it's a special occasion where Sonic is no longer around and Eggman is the reason? If he gets his shit together and decided to fight, I could totally see him trying to end Eggman for good. Honestly, I could also see him feeling conflicted about it because it's probable that Tails would believe that Sonic never wanted to see his little bro be a killer.
I think Tails would also recognize Eggman is a sore loser and would have something fricked up in store for when he kicks the bucket.
Alright, this is a good point. Imagine what kind of fricked up shit Eggman has in store the day he kicks the bucket
Yeah I imagine Tails's ultimate conclusion is, "This is what he's like when he's having FUN."
Using Tails Adventure should be on the table, given it should have still occurred in the Modern timeline. It's more likely that Tails has simply emulated enough of Sonic and his other friends morals that despite understanding the logical and pragmatic benefits to killing Eggman, he just won't do it if not pushed to.
I try not to count it cause it's Mickey Mouse violence. Yeah Tails fries them with napalm and they're charred and they fall offscreen, and one of them has his head smooshed by a rock, but I just have trouble counting that when it's so obviously slapstick.They've never been mentioned since, to boot.
That pic kinda makes it look like Fang is licking Knuckles' face.
Probably explains why fem-Tails is as weirded out by them as they are by her.
Don't think I'd mind Tails being female instead.
Member when Sonic was going to let King Shahryar fall to his death because he thought he was eggman and had to be begged by Shahra to save him?
Member in lost world when sonic took eggmans backpack thing and let him fall to his death?
Gamenic does not give a frick if eggman lives or dies and wont save him unless someone begs the frick out of him
I don't get why the story is deliberately poking holes in Sonic's rather reasonable moral choices.
Obviously killing lobotomized Eggman would be wrong (backed up by Shadow thinknig it was right, and he's always wrong in this).
But then the story goes out of it's way to punish Sonic for making the call as if it's trying to say something or bring up some sort of moral dilemma when there really wasn't one.
Now the fanbase is trying to treat this like it was the trolley dilemma when it really was not, and only outside circumstances actually enabled Eggman to return as a villain.
It bothers me how some anon insist Sonic should let crazy good Eggman be killed rather than in any story where he is still evil and aware of his actions.
Not executing amnesiac Eggman was a decent and defensible moral choice. The problem is that letting him go every other time becomes less and less heroic every time Eggman hurts someone else. Now I think that's an interesting debate to have, even as the comic refuses to commit. This isn't a case of poking holes in a moral choice, it's recognizing that those holes exist in the first place.
>I don't get why the story is deliberately poking holes in Sonic's rather reasonable moral choices.
Nothing wrong with challenging a character's beliefs. The point is to either have them reflect and change or stick to them with renewed resolve. Sonic went for the latter after his moment of doubt in 24 and being challenged again in Zeti Hunt where he finally established that he's not going to be shaken again. As long as he has proof that enemies can become allies, he will always have a foundation to base his beliefs on.
>Nothing wrong with challenging a character's beliefs.
It's failing to actually challenge them though. It feels like a phoned in attempt when there was obviously only one option.
Even if Shadow had done it, it would have been particularly cruel by his standards, comparable to the non-canon 'bad' ends of Shadow the Hedgehog.
This isn't really challenging Sonic's beliefs the way it might intend to.
I dunno, that could have challenged Sonic's beliefs about Shadow.
>It's failing to actually challenge them though. It feels like a phoned in attempt when there was obviously only one option.
There were multiple options but everyone at the time believed it was wrong to punish someone who was functionally a different person. They could have just locked him up forever.
It was very much expressed that them leaving him alone wasn't only a moral choice, it was better for the town he was helping as well. I seemed like both the practical and moral choice.
It would also be practical to detain him anyway. Shadow said that losing your memories doesn't make you not dangerous and even Sonic agreed with that. This was just seen as the best possible choice morally, but it was never the only good choice. Maybe if they had detained Tinker, the MV wouldn't have happened. It would still happen, for a variety of reasons, one of them being Starline's warp topaz.
i can't believe this one issue mindbroke so many anons
lmao
I remember during the Zombot arc a lot of people were postulating that after the story ended Sonic's reputation would be damaged for some time, mostly brought on by one panel of an unhappy despondant Cream walking past him after her mom got infected.
Then nothing happened at all, everybody was fine with Sonic afterwards.
Well yeah, he has to remain a squeaky clean hero everyone loves, because Sega says so.
Evan wanted a break from the MV
>haha you're all so moronic
>conspicuously doesn't mention own beliefs
How brave
>haha you're all so moronic
Also where did I state this?
You laughed that the issue "mindbroke" anons. So, again, who exactly are the mindbroken ones?
>avoiding the question with another question
alright lmao
>n-no u
Predictable
I wonder how it feels to have so much power to send the internet into such a tizzy over one issue.
Evan Stanley wrote issue 50, didn't she?
Isn't all this more her fault than Ian's?
No, Ian did
I thought Ian was off the main book?
He's not head writer but he still does issues. Last main book arc he did was Zeti Hunt.
Prime Tails - doesn’t think about it too hard. Helps save the day but doesn’t get involved with what happens to everyone afterwards. Just smile and wave.
Classic Tails - Along for the ride, if Eggman dies in the Death Star it’s not their job to help him
Gamegear Tails - is Kirby. Which is to say, The Punisher if he were an adorable little fluffball
Tails is the one Sonic character next to Shadow and Omega I see killing without regret, only difference is you have to push Tails into it or he does it without thinking something out.
>Gamegear Tails
I'm guessing you mean Tails Adventure, never occured to me that's basically a Metal Gear game.
>GG Tails: War, war never changes
>Proceeds to launch one fox war in the best GG game
It's all so tiring.
This is literally Manchester Black vs Superman and people are falling for it
Superman actually locks up badguys instead of letting them go free
>Itt shadowgays pretend that they suffer as much as vegetagay.
Are you gonna miss him?
I doubt he's even dead, honestly.
Ian says he is, but I don't really believe it, especially considering Evan's in control now and Starline seems like the kind of character she'd feel is necessary for the book.
Ian already said that could change down the line. It basically means to not expect him back any time soon.
I tend to think that both Sega and Ian are at fault with Shadow.
>Sega mandates he be a grumpy Vegeta-type
>as a result Ian doesn't want to write him and therefore does so as lazily as possible
He wasn't really any better under Evan and we know how she writes Shadow uninhibited.
I still remember how some anons swore up and down that Evans would save the comic from Flynn, then turned right around and denied it when that turned out to be less than correct.
I remember how some tried to say he was better simply because he eventually did the right thing after being pushed into it.
Okay we've hit auto-sage, go home everybody.
The only version of Tails who has ever shown a hard issue with killing has been Fleetway Tails. Tails in both the games (just based on Tails Adventure, Heroes and stuff like 06) and Archie has never had an issue with villains being offed.
>Fleetway Tails.
The same Tails who was being set up to literally snipe Robotnik Kennedy style?
I mean, that's the punchline. He won't do it.
He was set up to, but he threw away the gun because it was morally wrong. Tails Adventure Tails would have just dumped napalm on him and called it a day. Kid liberally committed war crimes without a car in the world.
https://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/post/688887986765627393/idw-sonic-imposter-syndrome-and-50
Why do fans of kid characters always want them to be edgy as possible?
Just saying what he literally did anon.
Sorry that makes you upset for whatever reason.
>Just saying what he literally did anon.
No you made up your own conclusion from what he did.
Notice how none of that is an 8 yo committing murder.
>made up
Anon I've watched X. He literally does all that shit without hesitation in the show itself. And this is a Tails based on SA1/2 so they think his game self can ALSO be that ruthless if push comes to shove.
Sonic is inherently edgy. Just like Kirby. It's only recently that Sega has been trying to change this and they still include shit like "Sonic being tortured for 6 months straight/slated for execution", having Shadow slaughter Zero's whole pack and approving the Metal Virus arc. If this upswts you, find a different franchise.
Sonic attracts autism like few other franchises
>butchers every remaining member of Cosmo’s species, including Cosmo herself
>flambés all the series’ birds except for bean and the rogues
>all the witchcarters “mysteriously dissapeared and were never seen again” after Tails flew offscreen with them
Eggman lives. Sonic is WEAK. Tails, only you can do what must be done.
>all the witchcarters “mysteriously dissapeared and were never seen again” after Tails flew offscreen with them
I completely forgot about this.
>makes Tails a murderer
"By killing me you have become just as evil as me!"
Good.
>"You've killed me!"
>"Good."
Can't wait to see Tails become "the Tails who Plants"
>becomes so obsessed with Cosmo, he wants to turn the entire universe into a garden in her name
Only if he cosplays as Judge Death
The crime is Death, the sentence is Life?
>Tails tries using plant-based chaos control machines to grow the seed Cosmo left, like the Metarex used to floraform planets
>realises potential of this, like Metarex said this could be used to create indefinite life, albeit submerged in a giant tree hivemind
>suddenly starts to think a world without any death doesn't actually sound so bad