>if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good. And if he is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful.
>if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good.
>if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good. And if he is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful.
this has been discussed to death in places that aren't this pile of shit. God defines good and evil. it's one of the benefits of being THE OMNIPOTENT RULER OF ALL THINGS!
you don't get it, chud! This child deserved to be raped and tortured for two years without a single second of relief from her agony!
>gaytheists who make this dumbass point always make it about child rape
>not even OY VEY IMMA SHOA NOT A GROA as you'd expect, instead it's always detailed description of child rape
>every time
Obviously moron, the point is is that one of the most despicable, disgusting and inflammatory acts out there, as per according to the godsquad, is God's will.
God wants that to happen or it wouldn't.
But no attack the vehicle for the message, obviously you have no way of rectifying your moronic beliefs so no atheist ever expects reason from you.
You don't understand what will is. Most people don't. Will is not choice or desire. Will is the force that drives growth. Plants have will, bugs have will, fish have will. But we have Free Will. Meaning we guide our own growth, physically, mentally and spiritually.
"God's Will" is a phrase that refers to the force of life that emanates from God. In summary, you are a complete idiot.
Except we don't. We have no more free will to make the inevitable next decision that we will make than oxygen and wood have the free will to burn when ignited
Are you even literate? I literally just said:
>Will is not choice or desire
Followed by an explanation of what it actually is. As for your moronic nihilism, being motivated by our most basic requirements doesn't preclude other higher motivations. The only people who believe it does are what my ex would have called OEU (Oxygen Exchange Units).
Free will is the concept of choice as opposed to subjection.
You claim we guide ourselves. Presumably the we meaning the conscious guiding the body.
It's the other way around. We're like the plant. We grow long if we lack sun, or short if we have an excess. Whether we think about the process or not is irrelevant. Whether we think we have the choice or not is irrelevant.
Perhaps you do not know what free will is.
No. It isn't. I just told you what it is. Your moronic but common definition is a modern bastardization of the ancient meaning. I will not be lectured on spiritual matters by a materialist drone.
>Your correct usage of the word isn't the one I accept
>I'm gonna ignore your point to focus on this irrelevance despite being wrong
>Mreh! >:(
much morono
You choose to believe it's correct because that definition creates scriptural inconsistencies that you use to reinforce your own desire to deny the spiritual reality the surrounds and permeates material reality. But following the ancient meaning of the term that was translated as Free Will eliminates those inconsistencies. Which is why you refuse to even entertain the idea.
So, in summary, you're an idiot.
No. And it doesn't matter either way, as you do not guide yourself, your conditions do. The word use matters not
It must be frustrating to have an argument you can't counter
>gives humans free will
>humans rapes and tortures a child for two years without a single second of relief from her agony!
Who's in the wrong here again ?
>Human rapes and tortures
>Guy with infinite power, time and awareness just sits there watching
I mean theres at least 2 guys in the wrong
Well, that's ok. I'm not a monotheist.
Every god that has the power to intervene but chooses not to is in the wrong
So you're complaint is that an all powerful, all encompossing being(s) doesn't work the way you want to ? Kind of defeats the purpose don't you think ?
My complaint is that they stand by and allow evil, which is itself evil. Which makes those all powerful beings c**ts. Which means, frick em im not worshipping them and if we figure out how we should kill them
Evil but still human. You do know how big the universe is ? You create your own problems but want your parents to solve it even though you're 30 yrs old ? You sound like an absolute man-child.
Every neuron, every artery vein, every involuntary action must work in perfect order just so you and I could type these arguments. But what we do with such a miracle of existance and it's consequences is not our fault ? Saving one from the consequences of free will and choices ?
I'm sorry, buddy. The world doesn't work the same way when you were 10.
I dont create tsunamis and ebola.
Kids dont create rapists.
And of course you save people from the consequences of their actions.If your loved one slit their wrists in the bathtub are you gonna just shrug and go "welp, frick em thats their choice" or are you gonna call a fckin ambulance? And thats what a weak blob of meat and bone can do.
God could make every rapist impotent. God could alter our biochemistry system to give those bursts of car-lifting strength to any child being assaulted and have reflexes installed to make attacking one weaken. He could fricking show up and say "stop" He could do anything.
He doesnt.
Hes either a c**t or he doesnt exist.
Oh.. really.. marginalizing and exploiting an entire continent to a point where single disease is genocidal.
Ahem..ahem.. origins of covid 19.
If tectonic plates stopped moving Earth would stop being habitable.
>If your loved one slit their wrists in the bathtub are you gonna just shrug and go "welp, frick em thats their choice" or are you gonna call a fckin ambulance? And thats what a weak blob of meat and bone can do.
God could make every rapist impotent. God could alter our biochemistry system to give those bursts of car-lifting strength to any child being assaulted and have reflexes installed to make attacking one weaken. He could fricking show up and say "stop" He could do anything.
What the frick are you talking about ?!! What does this have to do anything theism ?!!
I'm now 100% sure you're less than 16 yrs old, your wordings, your perspectives, your arguments sounds very immature. So.. may your belief protect you.
>Why doesn't God do anything?
>HOLY SHIT SHE-BEARS WTF
>Standing by and allowing evil is morally identical to committing evil yourself
>REEE YOU JUST WANT GOD TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT
Moron. There are thousands of areas of life I dislike that I dont hold gods morally culpable for not interfering with. Not sitting on the sidelines while children are raped isnt a frivolous preference. Its basic decency.
Its morally unfair to make some suffer for the greater good without their consent
> Its morally unfair to make some suffer for the greater good without their consent
You assume this life is all there is and that consent is somehow a valid marker of what is good or bad. Is it bad when heavy snowfall causes a deer to starve to death (and a wolf to subsequently eat)? Is it good when a deer manages to evade a predator and that predator goes hungry?
Why is it that consent and purpose and will mean so much to you when you don’t apply such things to nature? Are you outraged when tectonic plates collide and kill thousands? Do you wonder if the tectonic plates are good or bad? What about tornadoes, are they good or bad or are they simply there?
Whether theres an afterlife is irrelevant to whether something is good or bad.
Hurting people without their consent is evil. Otherwise, I get to kill you and give your organs away for donation without being judged negatively.
Nature isn't supposedly sentient. God is.
Making a world where the wolf must feed on the deer is also pretty fricked up
So you want free will but wants someone to interfere. Anon, you're talking about the government not theism.
Free Will does not preclude intervention. The man has chosen to hurt another. God then could choose to kill them, or give the girl super strength or work in mysterious ways to save her or make the guy impotent or anything else he wants.
Theists only hang on the "Free Will means he cant intervene" shit because it gets them out of the Theodicy problem. But it doesnt work if you examine it closely.
If a guy tries to hurt me and I stop him, everyone involved had free will. If I stop him hurting someone else theres still free will. If god stops him, suddenly theres no free will? Bullshit.
People who die in tsunamis did not die as the result of any humans free will. so theres just pointless suffering and death.
Refer
>So you want free will
I don't believe in free will. Every choice in your life is a result of physics.
To have true free will you would have to be able to consciously alter the laws of physics to give yourself choices other than the one ordained by the motions of particles.
And don't start talking about quantum physics because you have no idea what you're talking about.
the law of physics break down when you zoom in enough, so your belief is moronic and rooted in 19th century atheism. Movement isnt predictable, at the atomic level, you can only predict loose probabilities.
Being unpredictable is not sufficient to conclude that it's nondeterministic.
most research into it suggest it is nowhere near deterministic and has properties that defy any thought that it is deterministic. At this point you are no better than the gods of the gaps people you just created your own god of the gaps in the assurance that your life is fully determined by neat processes. Its ok to simply not know, and then to declare
>And don't start talking about quantum physics because you have no idea what you're talking about.
you dont even need to go that low, we are unable to accurately predict the movement of a single carbon atom
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2023-10-17/stanford-scientist-robert-sapolskys-decades-of-study-led-him-to-conclude-we-dont-have-free-will-determined-book
>guys this pop science article of a dudes opinion from the LA times, im very smart
you are like a caricature lel
I mean it's not just him. It's general consensus that free will is a faulty concept.
I could tell you that every thought you have, decision you make, was the natural follow-through of your current intrinsic and extrinsic relative conditions and properties, but who tf am I?
Smarter people than I with names next to their claims have used more words to say it.
The weight of my argument alone is lost on you because you're moronic
appeal to ethos isnt enough to along to prove a thesis, you would know that if you took basic introductory english.
I just posted the article. I'm not telling you to believe what he says without looking into it further.
you didnt even read the article and you shared it, you just glanced the clickbait headline and said to yourself "this reinforces my depression"
You're right but only because I've already read his conclusions elsewhere.
The message matters more than the medium. Do you, know what he has to say?
he says you are a worthless idiot that is a danger to society basically
What kind of moron are you?
Well yeah of course I do, they have stupid beliefs to make sense of. Your idea of a god from an atheistic perspective is just some weird invent who isn't all that powerful and creates things to suffer for a reason you apparently can't even begin to explain.
What's the point in suffering is a valid response to your claim that a suffering free world is somehow better.
The chaotic nature of the universe that you're subjected to fricks with your will anyway.
>What kind of moron are you?
thats literally his conclusion about people that act with the belief there is no free will
No he doesn't, he says that no one has free will and every "decision" falls under that framework. From the best to the worst of us.
bro, he literally ends his entire spiel with people who act with the belief that there is no free will are a danger to society and that belief becoming widespread and put to its logical conclusion is a danger.
Oh, I see. You read the end but not the meat.
Yeah, he suggests that telling people there is no free will could inspire them to act worse. He suggests it merciful to protect them from that information
>"The greatest risk of abandoning free will, Sapolsky concedes, isn’t that we’ll want to do bad things. It’s that, without a sense of personal agency, we won’t want to do anything."
>"“It may be dangerous to tell people that they don’t have free will,” Sapolsky said. “The vast majority of the time, I really think it’s a hell of a lot more humane.”"
lol you read the article, i didnt actually read it, i just knew you didnt. Black person stop living your life by pop science headlines, its an embarrassment no matter your beliefs.
I didn't actually, I just read the end since you said you did lmao.
Stop living your life assuming you know better than people who spend their time doing actual research. Your wilful stupidity is an embarrassing trait
you didnt do the research
oh hush spaz
everyone dreads when you speak to them in real life. people look at you and become uncomfortable. when you are around the room goes silent because no one wants to hear what you have to say. you have no will to change this so you should probably just off yourself.
wrong homosexual
>Your idea of a god from an atheistic perspective is just some weird invent who isn't all that powerful
You clearly fail to comprehend. It's not that difficult to understand, go reread my posts.
>What's the point in suffering is a valid response to your claim that a suffering free world is somehow better.
That is not a claim that I have made. That's the opposite of what I said, so I will proceed with pretending you said this instead:
>What's the point in suffering is a valid response to your claim that a world with suffering is somehow better.
It's a valid question. The point is to give you challenges to overcome for the sake of yourself and others, which makes your choices meaningful.
>The chaotic nature of the universe that you're subjected to fricks with your will anyway.
Sure, we can establish some common ground on this. For example if something falls on you in an earthquake as a child then you certainly had no meaningful agency. But the person who researches earthquake dection and prediction does have meaning now.
yeah idk where I got that from.
This was a mistake, I meant the opposite. It's a valid response to the claim a suffering world is better. Yea
Some people suffer for their entire existence, and the only gain made is someone enjoyed inflicting it before their death. I don't accept this to be intelligent design of a world that suffers.
Your brain is subject to that chaotic nature through x mental illness, or y external condition. Does a bipolar raised by abusive neighbours and surrounded by heroin without adequate education truly have the free will to not end up suffering a crippling addiction?
With no one to care for them, no resources to seek help, and no external input do they have the willpower or need to break that chain?
Sure you could grow and change somehow from this, but is it not just wasted time in the end? While they rot on drugs, others use that time just... Indulging in productive hobbies and smiling. People without trauma are happiest and most productive. Where is the utility in suffering?
Suffering also coincides frequently with acts of evil. It can warp someone and cause them do perpetuate suffering. I don't see it making sense from an atheistic or godgays perspective
The suffering is only temporary, be grateful death exist for such is nature lumps of matter like us are born with no objetive rights, we are no better than ants if life is suffering the ''death'' of our perceptions and mind is peace.
Be glad you will suffer no more in this unfair world, better yet, you can obtain this relief sooner than later, even by your own hand.
No way your stupid ass is the same dude I responded to
Who knows? I think you're a schizo samegaygin with vpn to derail this thread.
Nah I'll waste my time arguing bullshit with idiots but spoofing my IP and pretending I believe something I do not just to cause shit is beyond my capability for loserisms
You give a bunch of examples of something I already agree with, that from the perspective of the victim it's not fair or meaningful. But in each of those cases, there are now opportunities for other people to do meaningful things.
>Does a bipolar raised by abusive neighbours and surrounded by heroin without adequate education truly have the free will to not end up suffering a crippling addiction?
The existence of bipolar people means that other people now can learn how to interact with them. The existence of abuse means you can save people from it, choose not to engage in it, learn to control your anger, etc.
Now you may say this doesn't seem "worth it," and I think that's reasonable but every time you take away a bad thing you also take away things to struggle against until ultimately you live in a boring nothing-world where everyone is just automatically happy, not that they care because they don't know what being sad is. They have no reason to ever be sad.
I honestly don't see that mattering.
Boredom still exists, and it's never the kind of suffering that we're talking about that solves it.
You solve boredom with woodworking, and suffering tells you that - That time your chisel slipped? don't do that again. From an evolutionary perspective it is easy to make sense of.
I don't see how it's absence would cause any negative though. If bipolar people were not gods invent, we wouldn't have to learn how to deal with people predetermined to suffer. Its like if chocolate vanished tomorrow, you'd not miss it. It'd just be gone. You wouldn't know to miss it.
You'd be too busy eating mushrooms and frolicking. Have you ever frolicked? who tf has time to frolick when people are rotting of cancer or children are being sold as sextoys?
>boredom still exists
Oh, okay. To me boredom is a part or type of suffering. You know how suicide rates tend to be much more common in affluent countries? Being coddled doesn't innately make people happy. Obviously an all-powerful god could rewire that, but that would basically be changing what it means to be bored.
>You solve boredom with woodworking, and suffering tells you that - That time your chisel slipped? don't do that again. From an evolutionary perspective it is easy to make sense of.
Right, or even a less extreme example: you do your woodworking and the result sucks. So you learn from your mistakes, or not if you don't ever fail because that makes people feel bad.
>I don't see how it's absence would cause any negative though. If bipolar people were not gods invent, we wouldn't have to learn how to deal with people predetermined to suffer. Its like if chocolate vanished tomorrow, you'd not miss it. It'd just be gone. You wouldn't know to miss it.
Right, if we lived in a suffering-free world, we wouldn't have any concept of it and we wouldn't miss it. But we'd still be no better than robots following instructions.
>You'd be too busy eating mushrooms and frolicking.
Doing nothing but that sounds like a pretty lame existence. If I had to choose which universe to live in, I'd pick this one. Of course, I'll admit that if I were destined to be a child who starves to death I might prefer the other.
Affluent countries are also bombarded with modern news and 10 hour workdays. Constant negativity to dwell on while you stare at the same meaningless numbers for most of your existence.
You wouldn't know you were missing suffering, so you just wouldn't suffer. You'd do... hobbies and shit. I'm not counting boredom here, though I agree it's suffering its more like a condition of being rather than a condition of being subjected to something.
So you'd rather live in a world with suffering, so long as you're not the one suffering? Again, if we elevate the word suffering to mean something more than existing without purpose. No those who suffer, it is an entirely useless thing.
I'm gonna go to bed because it's technically morning where I live, but I'll consider the direction you're talking about.
>indeterminism means I can choose which thoughts to think before I think them
I told you people not to talk about quantum physics. It's irrelevant. Deterministic or not you have no hand on the wheel. You have no control.
Whether your thoughts are determined by atomic pinball or unpredictable cosmic noise, you are a puppet.
quantum is subatomic processes, quantum wasnt talked about
Most stable and coherent schizo :
if its all deterministic, the probabilities of it leading to what currently exist are so low from an initial state that that determinism could only be done to reach this point by some being or power that would to us be a god. your belief in materialistic determinism actually points more towards god than a belief in free will.
If physics are deterministic then "probability" is fiction and this result is inevitable. There is no such thing as other possibilities so the probability of this possibility is 100%.
So every neuron firing in our brain, all our expereinces, conditions are all pre determined when The Big Bang happened ? What's the difference between that and a lunatic theist ?
I won't talk about quantum mechanics, it's not like I have a Masters in Photonics/Physics or anything.
Anon, do you know a certain institution called CERN ? Check out the photos. Either the people there are and who were there are very moronic or very smart beyond our comprehension.
>free will
YOU DON'T GET IT CHUD
THE CHILDREN OF POMPEI DESERVED TO BE KILLED BY A PYROCLASTIC FLOW
Also it's not free will if you threaten everyone with torture for disobedience.
One planet, one incident in a universe or a multiverse disproves theism.
Isn't that my free will ?
If you were in the room while a dude was raping and torturing a child in front of you, wouldn't you stop them if you could?
So you're either more ethical or more powerful than God.
most people say they would stop it but most people also fail to act when they see horrific things
We often fail to live up to our ideals. We're only human.
what an exquisite reaction image
Thanks. It's a photograph of me.
>makes all the rules
what an butthole
>God is evil
>The constitution is against the law
>George Lucas doesn't understand Star Wars
Then good and evil are arbitrary concepts construed by whim
If God exists and is unchanging then its moral judgements predated and informed the creation of the universe and the forces of nature. In that context God's moral judgements are supra-universal constants, they're the opposite of arbitrary, they're fundamental.
People call the things that they like good. They think Jesus is good because Jesus supposedly did something really nice for them, not because god declared him good. When people say god must not be good, they mean good in the ways they care about, not good by your unrelatable definition.
This falls into the God is not all-good category. As things that are clearly not good, such as parasite infections, are arbitrarily declared to be what God wants.
If our understanding of good isn't God's understanding of good, when we say "good" it's not what God means, therefore he isn't all-good by what we mean when we say the word, which is just a word to describe something that God doesn't consider to be good.
The fact that a word can have different meanings in different contexts is something low IQ individuals have a lot of trouble with. It’s the same sort of idiocy that claims tomatoes are fruits not vegetables.
>tell eve not to eat the apples or everything goes to shit
>intentionally gives her free will knowing she will choose to eat the apple
>punishes mankind for eternity for eating the apples
If you believe in God, nothing you say will ever be taken seriously because that's the kind of moron logic you believe in.
Wasnt it that she didn't actually have free will until she ate the apple, which satin tricked her into?
So it's worse, because he designed something innocent and manipulatable, and the thing that was evil and manipulating, and then engineered the perfect scenario in which we'd "betray" him so he could abuse us.
Wait is God an abusive husband?
This isn't reddit
Just call OP a stupid gorilla Black person
>No no no, God IS all good, a stupid human like you just doesn't actually comprehend what Good is
Every Christian is a battered wife.
If God is Sneed, he cannot be Chuck. And if he is Chuck, he cannot be Sneed. God isn't real
Was creating parasitic eye worms a good thing?
Then I hold myself ethically superior to God.
Because if I could stop all the suffering in the world I would.
People don't stop suffering just because you solve their problems, and the only way to change that is to basically do the pleasure cube thing which makes it all pretty meaningless. atheist btw
They do if you're god and you design the cause of suffering, no?
Like I said, your universe sounds meaningless and shit. Would not choose.
If you were god you'd design the meaning.
Which by the way, what is the meaning of suffering? What is to be gained? Since you're an atheist apparently, obviously not entrance to a greater beyond.
You sound like a spastic.
>If you were god you'd design the meaning
You're just like the Christians up above. Just because you're all powerful doesn't make you right. We judge good and evil by our own standards. Yeah, an all-powerful god could frick with my will and make me like it, but that's the same as lobotimizing everyone or sticking them in a pleasure cube.
>You sound like a spastic.
Maybe you're just a moron.
In other words you think the world we live in is the best possible world that can exist. God thought it through very hard and this was the best he or anyone could possibly do. Right?
Wrong. You believe in Heaven. A world you believe is superior to this one. Where problems like death and suffering are solved. You don't just believe a better world is possible. You have a name for it.
woops, missed the "atheist btw" part at the end.
My point stands, it's easy to conceive of a better world than ours.
>In other words you think the world we live in is the best possible world that can exist.
No, I wouldn't go that far. I don't have the level of knowledge to judge that kind of thing, I just know that I don't like the idea of being a prisoner of some god's will.
Well if God is all powerful then he can create a world where you have free will in addition to no suffering.
A world where you can do whatever you want, but you're incapable of harming others.
A good start would be to make it so you don't have to kill things to survive. That's the source of most suffering in the world. Both in humans and the animal kingdom.
>A world where you can do whatever you want, but you're incapable of harming others.
What's the fricking point of living without meaningful choices?
>choices aren't meaningful unless I can make people suffer
Psychopath.
Perhaps being a sadistic psycho is the good thing after all.
Besides humanistic morality is so gay so it doesn't matter.
If i were a god i would ate babies alive btw.
aren't meaningful unless I can make people suffer
>Psychopath.
Choosing not to be a psychopath only has meaning if I had a (non-trivial) choice.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather live in a world where "murder" is not an available choice.
That is not a choice that I require to give my life meaning.
If you lived in such a world and had a similar attitude, you would say that about the next-most bad thing that you can think of. Taking that to its conclusion, you'd live in a world where nothing bad happened and it didn't matter what you did. And in this world, would you even still have the capacity to hate others? If not, aren't you basically just a puppet?
I'm already just a puppet. I'd rather be a happy puppet.
Well, I guess that's the core difference. I don't think of myself as a puppet.
There's a comic I wish I had at hand, one which illustrates a time traveler who ends up sitting in a box getting injected with a pleasure drug instead of exploring the universe like she expected. I'm saying I don't find that appealing.
What you want is personal fulfillment and challenge. And I'm saying that suffering is not required for that.
I could achieve fulfillment by finding love and raising a family. Or by taking pride in a skill I have mastered.
I don't need to get stabbed in the balls every time I make a bad painting or something to make that meaningful.
>I could achieve fulfillment by finding love and raising a family. Or by taking pride in a skill I have mastered.
People would suffer if they couldn't find love, so everyone always finds love. So you didn't actually do anything, you didn't contribute and if you didn't exist then nobody would be worse off. The same thinking can apply to the rest of those items.
The world of the weak and powerless where there's only inertia and limitation, the world of the dead, don't worry soon we will depart to it, there's no suffering, no ego, no attachement nor free will.
Wouldn't that be heaven itself? If only he didn't punish us and kicked us out for exercising our so called free will.
see
I made the same point. If God could have created a better world than this one, then he isn't all good.
And since christians already believe in a world that's better than this one, they're lying when they make excuses about free will and how this world is actually perfect.
>What is good.
Lmao, with these simply words, Atheism just straight dunked on. Your worldview can provide an epistemic account for the True, False, Good and Bad.
EO Chads 1
Protestant Revolving Door Atheisms/Agnostic 0
>picture from a kino
>thread won't be about it
Frick you all.
The quote isn't even from the movie lmao
what's so funny
You expect a zoomer to have a coherent memory and attention span to remember that ?
Bot thread.
Hide and ignore.
Cinemaphile is the dumbest board. anons here are even dumber that /misc/tards and Cinemaphileermin.
not you though right?
that's right b***h.
>he doesn't know
fa/tv/irgin-kun...
Cinemaphile is /misc/tards
no, nobody is dumber than Cinemaphiletards. you cannot even talk to people on that board, their brains are fried on bing bing wahoo. i've seen so many dumb arguments go on for dozens of posts simply because at one point one guy just didn't read the other one's post and attacked him for something he never said
>inb4 Cinemaphile is the same
it's really not. it's stupid but it's not on the same level.
plus everybody who could hold a conversation moved to /vst/ and /vrpg/ and Cinemaphile is even more shit now.
yet tv doesnt have a pet name unlike those shitholes
what movie is this from
Creation vs Creator : Dawn of Justice.
So, when is The Killer coming out again? Can't wait for more Fassbender
Thinking about Fassbender and Fincher collabing makes me HARD.
This is brainlet "black and white" philosophy. There is a possible middle ground that a supreme creator is neither good or evil, but indifferent.
Then he's not all-good. Says it right in the quote. Religion defeated in a single sentence.
who says god has to be all good other than your parents that neglected you?
Again, it's in the quote. It isn't God.
To monopolize good and bad or right and wrong is inherently tyrannical and against the entire point of giving human beings free will.
Religion: your life sucks, you have no power, but if you give all your stuff to us, you will have eternal bliss after you die.
most religions don't emphasize rewards in the afterlife or the afterlife in general. It's kind if just the gimmick of religion to get into that territory. Religion is about understanding your place in the world and living well amongst your fellow man.
I'm an atheist, but nowhere in the bible is god all good or all powerful. Most powerful, most good, but not omni-potent or -benevolent.
>Then why call him god?
I mean if something can create the universe and isn't actively evil, God seems like a fair enough appellation for it.
Doesnt matter cos he's not real
>Then why call him god?
I've always found this part especially hilarious. Zeus might not have been a moral paragon or 100% all powerful, but you still better offer him sacrifice if you don't want him to send a plague upon your country.
God allows evil to bring about a greater good
thank for playing, fedoras
>God should focus all his efforts into micromanage to his Earth bush after going through all the trouble of setting it up so it can manage itself so he can go sit other plants all over his garden.
>"Hurrr ur evil for not paying attention to a few branches strangling each other (even though the plant will survive anyway)"
He has unlimited power and mental capacity to micromanage it. theres literally no cost to him if he does.
He also did a shit job of setting it up in the first place
>Oy vey here's this thing that's all powerful and all seeing and he's not constrained by time or space but akshully he can't be at all places at once
Why is God such a fricking israelite?
Are you utilizing all of your energy and power to tend to every single hobby and pet project you've started in your liftime or are you just sitting around on Cinemaphile making anti-semitic posts?
I bet that guy doesnt have infinite energy tho
No, but he does have more than he's using. Why would God be any different?
Bible was written by man. God is not responsible for what the humans think of him.
A little bit of column A and a little bit of column B
>create living sentient beings as a side project, in world that causes them great suffering
>pretend to be 'good'
>one of my little pets defends me, an omnipotent being, as if I would fricking care about it
>God is not omnipotent nor omnipresent nice lol
>God should be my personal butler
Shut the frick up, human. Eat the fruits of the Earth and smoke some weed. Jesus.
Black person what? I don't think God should be anything. God is a concept for morons.
It's just funny watching idiots squirm and contradict themselves trying to make sense of such a stupid idea
>unified central figure of morality that can be taught to anyone regardless of their IQ or age is a stupid idea
Like santa clause, homie?
Exactly, moron. There's a couple thousand year old book revolving around the teachings of santa clause that has shaped human history.
That doesn't mean believing it is stupid.
>You can teach to any age or IQ
That's because only stupid people and children believe such obviously stupid ideas to be truth.
isn't stupid*
Imagine you're plopped down onto a fresh planet with a bunch of disconnected people and it's your job to unify people and create civilization. How do you do it? Teach them all about your reddit teachings and expect them to all unify behind your hecking science? Everyone from the moronest of morons to the to the top of the bell curve "2smart4u" morons (You) and people intelligent enough to grasp the concept and fuction of religion?
Your argument is that it has utility to primitives.
Regardless of whether or not that's true, it has no bearing on whether or not it is stupid to continue believing it the truth at our current level of scientific understanding.
>Make 70% of it uninhabitable
>Make the source of light and energy give cancer
>flying bloodsucking insects spread lethal diseases sometimes, other times minor itchies
>best soil for farming is near mountains that sometimes explode
Great work setting up your little Sims game god
That 70% is largely responsible for producing oxygen. Also, imagine how much humans would frick up the Earth even more if they could inhabit that as well.
That 70% is important to keeping Earth a functioning planet even with humans on it.
>make the 70% uninhabitable but essential to life so if they frick around too much with the limited space i gave them, they die
>Wow Im so good at this
No fun in making it easy mode
Ahh yes I remember when I was fourteen, don't worry champ you will grow up someday
Job 38
>god give humans free will
>humans stray away from the teaching of gods
>they become corrupted and frick over others
>"Why did god to this xD?"
>God knows the future
>God knows his creation will disobey him, kill each other, and create great suffering
>Create them anyways and throw in cancer, natural disasters, all sorts of diseases, birth abnormalities, etc just for the lulz
>Humans praising god
>lol tsunamis and earthquakes, 30% infant mortality, starvation
>Humans start using science to fix the shitty fricking world I gave them
>Tell them thats corruption
>get ignored as humans edge ever closer to utopia, primarily held back by the few morons who believe me
Where the frick is this Utopia?
>Less chance of being killed by another human than any other time in history
>over 95% literacy
>Infant mortality massively reduced in most developed nations (not america tho lol, get healthcare scrubs)
>Life expectancy doubled
>Understanding of the universe massively improved
>abundant food and medicine hasn’t made them feel better
Yeah it has. Its just not good enough yet. Thats basically a capitalism issue though
>life is better because it’s longer
Kek such a boomer mentality
You honestly think we’re on the right path? Look at how many people kill themselves through gluttony and sloth, medicate themselves because they’d otherwise be unable to get out of bed or not commit suicide, are addicted to opioids and more. People are hurting and abundant food and medicine hasn’t made them feel better.
Generally speaking, we are. Things are getting better.
The earth can't cope with the luxuries we indulge though, so we'll destroy our planets habitability long before a utopia is truly even thinkable
People aren’t having families because they are so misanthropic and focused on consooming that the idea of a family seems terrible. This is diametrically opposed to our very instinct and combined with the things I mentioned about (a medicated, addicted, depressed, angry population) these are all symptoms of a greater problem in the western world ie where all these utopian riches are most widely available.
If life is just an ephemeral pause before the afterlife then the suffering that takes place here is no more significant than being born is compared to the 80 or so years of life that follows. Far less so considering lives are brief and the afterlife is eternal.
You’re applying modern anthropic views, concepts and ideas to something that cannot be adequately explained let alone constrained to such narrow and deficient processes.
Seems the solutions for helping the planet and society go hand in hand, but there's no convincing people that they don't actually enjoy watching kardashians every move, or hate watching the news constantly on their phone. Nor does that phone need to be the new yearly iPhone or their 80 percent sugar coffee need be 10 times the value of its parts.
Our food stability, suppression of crime and general freedom in action place us closer to a utopia than any time prior though, I'd say.
Yet more people are unhappy than ever.
How many psychiatric meds are you and/or your immediate family and friends on?
This is bullshit though. There was like a brief period of high buying power in the US where people may have been happier, but even that is a dubious claim.
Just like the idea that medications are an attempt to solve a new problem. It's an acknowledgement of an old problem that is just now getting attention.
You think farmer serfs were happy working a field all day while their wives looked after the 8 children they had to have because only 4 will make it to adulthood and the other 4 need to work the farm when you're old lest you starve to death?
probably not bro
Farmers worked less than people do today and the constantly took naps throughout the day.
More bullshit. Generally speaking, they'd have expanded upon enough land to provide a day of work, because otherwise you're just... Not efficient?
>human populate themselves at a fricking burning volcano
>this is gods fault
>humans eat and breed like garbage so many infants die
>this is gods fault
He is beyond good and evil. Why do so many people have a child’s view of God? Even some Christians seem to. Fear God, he will send a pack of rabid ******* to rape you to death or skin you alive funky town style if he so wills it, we don’t judge him on the same level as mortal beings. Simple concept really. Find comfort that there’s a singular “one” that has a plan, but also be scared of being raped to death in your mortal life and even worse, your eternal soul burning forever, but he’ll forgive you, maybe.
Because that's even more moronic, albeit closer to canon
to this day this argument makes theists produce the biggest copes
the first mistake people make is thinking god is even on the same plane of existence as us, we are merely an image. people cannot conceptualise that we are mere ants. god is meta, god is outside of it. a kid is tortured to death? and? god still exists and he will bring great pain to the innocent, but also great love. You can curse him all you want, you can hate him all you want, you can choose to disbelieve, but he is there and he will frick you up. I was never raised religiously and I don’t know which religion I’d fit into, but there is a “one”, everyone knows it deep down and can feel it
Why must God be all powerful?
Well because he's defined as that in classical monotheism, that's what people are talking about with the problem of evil, the popular definition of god presented
>God is
that was the worse part, they gave it this wrathful father like image.
>sure God wears NIKE´s and can be really moody if he hasn´t had his coffee and a wrathful bowel movement that morning
ah religion
movies?
Unlike you morons I'm a Deist. God is the great clockmaker that wound up the universe. Everything that came after that was out of his hands. You cannot refute this, eat shit homosexuals.
Ah yes, the inventive theist. The theist who decides his own one truth and holds it above the masses of conflicting, dissenting and more popular beliefs.
Amongst morons, you're moronic.
Refuted 1700 years ago
Let's hear it then.
Spoiler: The only solution to the problem of evil is to make God imperfect. But christgays refuse to do that because it's central to their faith that God be perfect.
So they spent centuries inventing shitty excuses and still don't have anything respectable.
Maybe child sexo es perfecto and the mudslimes are right
God didnt create evil, man did. Without free will man is no different than beast. And man chooses to commit evil out of his own free will. There cannot be good without evil, heaven without hell, or vice versa.
Natural disasters, disease, parasites, the cruelty of nature.
>b-b-but those aren't "evil"
Irrelevant. Why doesn't God stop them?
For that matter, why did he make things this way to start with?
>the universe is fine tuned for life
Then why is it instant death to be literally anywhere else other than here?
If he couldn't have made the universe any other way then God is imperfect.
Man chose earth instead of Eden
I didn't choose shit.
There is no such thing as perfect or imperfect. Perfect is an abstraction, in the metaphysical definition of abstraction, not just something vague.
I'm using "perfect" here as shorthand for "all powerful, all knowing, and all good". The classical definition of the christian god. "perfect" is just way quicker to say.
Why does David and Prometheus garner so much interest here? The'yre forgotten movies.
lain is god you are all stupid
Why do Atheist™ gays seek to fight the abrahamic god everywhere.
>inb4 muh religious chuds opressing me ((WE)) gotta fight them with science
I have bones to pick with Hindus and Buddhists, but they don't control the Supreme Court.
None of the typical Christian political positions actually require religion. The only thing in the Bible that relates to abortion, for example, is Thou shalt not kill. That's a pretty universal principle in non-shit civilizations.
>The christchuds at power are opressing me
Troons are hilarious folx.
You know how its super cringe when zoomers compare things to being like marvel movies? Its like that but those zoomers also make the rules.
Yes i love israelites.
But why are those tribal creatures any relevant to the abstract divine morality question?
Kek, this is most (you)s I got on Cinemaphile, who knew chuds here hated theism more than r/atheism users.
>Bro the bad things happen as a consequence of free will
Yet people who never smoked develop lung cancer
Atheistsisters, I just found out there are more than 1 religion and that religion itself has several faction with different interpretations and beliefs. I'm literally shaking right now, why does theists here are smart and coherent ? I'm going back to r/atheistroon right now.
Anyone who suggests that child killing earthquakes are "good" and "you just don't understand the plan" has left the path of a thinking man.
it's all fully necessary for the actuation of His grand designs. He, the Almighty Perfect Father in Heaven, blessed be His Holy Name, needed to waste those little c**ts because uh they were totally degenerate and also probably satanic as well. They really had it coming if you think about it.
The determinism = no free will perspective baffles me. And no I'm not a Christian, and the compatibilist Hume wasn't really either.
All determinism means is that cause & effect exists and the present moment is caused by the sum of interactions in the previous moment.
Free will is the question of if you have the ability to act at your discretion. Determinism actually guarantees this. If the world was non-deterministic, then there would necessarily not be any certain relationship between your experiences and your thoughts, or your thoughts and your actions. If somehow you had the power to experimentally repeat a moment in the universe, and found that an agent such as a human didn't take the same action each time you redid the experiment, that would indicate humans do not have agency, that they cannot make decisions in their own interest. Instead human actions would be random or otherwise irrelevant to the humans desires.
>But then if I had all the data in the world I could perfectly predict how you would act next
What bearing does that actually have on free will, though? Isn't the alternative way more problematic? If you can have perfect informational knowledge of all the forces acting and have acted on someone, and the thing they do next is still completely unpredictable, that indicates there is no will at all and instead brains are just perfect random number generators.
No, for free will to be meaningful, you absolutely should be predictable if someone has an impossibly perfect amount of information. That proves your will describably exists.
Free will only exists if you have no attachment to material reality. Look up Max Stirner, the ego and ownership.
If I build a town and give it away for free, and then after a certain point the town folk go crazy and start burning down everything and killing each other; there is nothing evil on my part.
God literally gave you the tools. What you decide to do with them is on you, not god.
>claim god exists
>can't provide proof
/thread
inb4 some gay tries to shift the burden and we have to talk about bigfoot and unicorns
Death is the god of this world, be ready to embrace it.
Or not, it matters not, you were dead they day you born.
>be me
>Catholic
>enter thread
>mfw
What do you think of
?
man idk, I'm browsing Cinemaphile hoping to see a Bane thread
>I feel like I have free will, therefore I do
All religious people (including Christian’s itt) are either lying to themselves or have deep seated mental health problems. Please don’t reply to me as I won’t read it and you won’t change my mind.
>Sticks his head in the sand while loudly proclaiming to be the reasonable one
Being tribal, stubborn and dogmatic is as human as it gets, I love your narcissist ''solipsism'' tho, I respect people who stays true to their ideals, no matter if it is a silly religious dogma, some kind of materialistic rationalism or progressive moral superiority.
>muh free will bullshit again
Why are you people so utterly moronic?
>Chad gets born a 6'3" handsome genius with a big dick at a good home in 1980s America
>spends his life in ease, never gets sick, helps the people around him, marries, has children, dies and goes to Heaven never having faced any actual hardships
>Igor is born as a 5'6" balding weakling with a crooked foot in 1800s Russia, and he has to steal and kill in order to keep his little sister safe after their mother died in childbirth and their father died from drinking
>after a life of suffering he goes to Hell to be tortured forever
>little Susie gets bone cancer at 12 and after an excruciating period she dies
Damn, God's infinite love looks like THAT?!
>inb4 "brooooo you just don't get it, this utter game of chance that is life that smiles upon some and curses others is totally fair and even if it's not it's because good and evil have to exist because Eve and whatever and basically the base fact that pain can lead to growth basically means that my omnipotent entity is all-good and all-loving even though it's letting 6 YOs die from bone cancer while thieving scumbags are living well and good till their 90s"
Our God is an AWESOME GOD!
You will rot along with them, and your name will be erased from this world, no matter what you do, you're an useless lump of flesh craving for sex like any other beast with no porpouse or meaning, who cares? Just get the rope already.
If you are an age above 15 you are condemned to whatever decrepit existence you currently inhabit.
Change, if it isn't too late.
But i'm happy with my life, and potential death too.