> if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good. And if he is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful.
KINO
 |
 Tip Your Landlord Shirt $21.68 |
|
> if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good.
> if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good. And if he is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful.
KINO
|
Tip Your Landlord Shirt $21.68 |
|
>no you don't understand god gave your 5 year old son bone cancer to test you or someshit he works in mysterious ways.
God didn't give your son bone cancer, the cumulative decisions of your ancestors over generations and/or your decision to live next to a chemical factory did
>THAT BONE CANCER IS OUTSIDE GOD'S AUSPICES
>YEAH EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED WAS A DIRECT RESULT OF HIS ACTIONS
>BUT STILL
great logic there christcuck
God allows natural and moral evil to exist so that man can have free will, simple as
So God is inconsequential overall now that enough time has passed since the creation of man?
>now that enough time has passed
>An omnipresent, omniscient, omnitemporal being
>Linear time
Pick one.
So free will doesn’t exist.
Of course it exists, I'm making fun of the idea that it's, or any aspect of God's influence, is contingent on time as perceived by mortal beings.
He made the world with perfect foreknowledge, so no.
Does this mean there is no free will in heaven?
Yeah you can choose a skinny latte or a mocha frapuccino
Not him, but no there absolutely is. If you're a destructive c**t then you're not going there. If you end up there and want to do some shit that would annoy me then we don't have to ever see or hear each other, it's heaven and hell is other people.
No, in fact, you can't even acknowledge most things from earth, like your family. Heaven is not a sitcom where you run around doing nothing for 400000000 thousand years, you just become part of the third heaven, with no need nor desire
Literally no one knows what heaven is like so any discussion on whay you can and can't do there is irrelevant. The closest we could get would be a certain kind of religious understanding concerning immoral behavior. To make it concise, I don't quit doing drugs because God told me to, I quit drugs because my love for God has revealed to me the error or my ways, and through that love I readjust my behavior. So it's not that we couldn't sin in heaven, it is that our love for God keeps us from sin, or even wanting to sin
it would be a dull existence if this life were its peak. heaven is a concept for small minds that can no longer grow.
God already know what decisions you will make from the beginning of the universe. He is all knowing. There is no free will
That’s like saying because I saw you crash your car it wasn’t your error
you mean its like saying
>thing I caused to happen isn't my fault because... uhhhhhh
please continue seething impotently gaytheist. maybe just have a nice day? your life sucks wiener and after all nothing matters, so why not just do the needful? you should stream it here too
>hey im totally a sincere Christian
>thats why i tell people to kill themselves
>God will surely let me into Heaven
>people
Homosexual blasphemers aren’t really people and you were never gonna make it into heaven. Plus, he’ll forgive me 🙂
>I will call you a moral hypocrite for calling me out on my own hypocrisy
If you really believe life is meaningless, cut to the chase and end it right now
death is meaningless too moron, scientifically im made of nothing but atoms and atoms are neither dead nor alive
Lmfao this. Christians are pacifists, it's against their own covenant with God to be judging others. That's how you know it's just a trend, the real christcucks stay quiet because they know how to turn the other cheek, they don't need to be constantly gratified by checkmating athiests and are secure in their faith.
It's a bunch of larping morons that think it's hilarious to bait athiests. Ignore them.
>it's against their covenant to judge others
No it is absolutely not. Read your Bible. It is against it to judge unrighteously when you are guilty of that which you are judging.
Take your nuChrist teachings back to your cult bro. Christgays know their place, the ones that don't are larping or in one of those "selective translation" christian-judean cults
>k-have a nice day
That's the best you have? Your childlike ideology gets destroyed and all you can do is pathetically ask others to kill themselves?
>r*ddit gaytheist thinks he’s destroyed anything
lmao the only thing you destroyed is your dads butthole when you fell out of it you absolute cringeBlack person
>have a nice day
nice try, satan-kun
>what is free will
cope
The sun rays give us cancer you idiot
Did you ever consider the 5 year old was. Alittle shit and would've grown to be an even bigger shit? You don't see these things, God does.
So what you are saying is that God knows when people are going to CHOOSE to be bad, and arranges for some of them to die before they can make that choice?
Dunno why you're using the word choice. And trying to play around with time as though it's a linear thing. I think you should go back to school before you try talking about things of a non linear, and metaphysical nature.
Shut up, loser
Maybe he loves the cancer cells developing in that boy’s body, like he loves the bear that cracks open the salmon’s skull
That doesn’t mean he doesn’t love the salmon or the boy either
His love is all encompassing, for better and for worse
God is Nurgle?
maybe it's humans who are in the wrong
>son would've grown up to be mega hitler
>implying god isnt the good guy here
If God killed their son because he was going to grow up to be mega-Hitler. Then why didn't God also kill actual Hitler?
You know, you can set aside your wars, your greed, your tribalistic nonsense any time you’d like and develop a cure for that. The sun is going to explode and delete Earth one day. That’s not God’s fault if people are too fricking stupid or corrupted to utilize the enormous time they have before it happens to find a way to prevent it or simply escape it.
Humans have to be the Black folk of the universe. They have every resource at their disposal to solve everyone of their problems and they’re still like “why is God not helping?” God isn’t pulling the trigger, you are. The wealthiest would rather frick and eat children rather than cure cancer and everyone else would rather look the other way and go “heh…a cure isn’t even possible heh…death good…”
It's not that they "have" to be, it's that the tree of knowledge was quite literally a guide on how to be that.
All the knowledge it contained is what you are unhappy with today. This is the lore at least. Humans WERE perfect and immortal up until they fricked up, same as Satan himself. The difference is, humans can one day be redeemed.
Death is a thing thanks to the original sin. Humans and even animals killing each other and not being able to live in harmony is also a side effect of that.
>some dumb b***h listening to a talking snake and eating an apple means death and conflict for everything forever
Lmao @ christgays and their fairy tales.
Even heard of the story of Job?
The point is that your circumstances don't matter. With God/religion, those things don't bother you.
It's only your attachments to those things that cause you pain. If you were unattached, you wouldn't be bothered.
Wouldn't it be good to be unattached? To not be bothered by your circumstances?
Unattached doesn't mean not caring about people or things either. It just means accepting that these people/things are temporary in our lives and not relying on these things for our sense of well being.
It's like not worrying about these things coming and going from our lives.
Anything that happens is called "God's will" and the purpose of being content/happy/trusting with whatever happens.
Didn't God also give you the desire to not want bone cancer and die and also your desire for your son to not experience the same?
the bone cancer is a direct result of atomic bomb tests
Pain and death are an inevitable human condition, and necessary for our existence.
Suffering is human choice, and is the act of dwelling and lamenting the conditions of your existence.
Every meritous religion ever conceived revolves around the notion of lessening suffering, not pain, and freeing you from the misery of existence, not it’s doom.
>Look on my posts, ye jannies
>and despair
Is this supposed to be an argument against the existence of god? That's stupid
It is supposed to be a refutation of the idea that God is omnipotent and omniscient. Making the case that God can't be both, based on the reality of what we see around us.
>based on the reality we see around us
Oh, you're omniscient now? Materialistic hubris knows no bounds, nor does materialistic cruelty.
you are truly moronic. Not once in OPs comment was it ever suggested God does not exist. You are so eternally insecure about your religious larping you can’t even read two sentences before frothing at the mouth in a deluded rage. Die and don’t @ me again
Sure he is, you're just not smart enough to realize it. He's quoting someone who is questioning God's divinity/power. In doing so, he's saying he isn't God, because to question the basics of the divine is a rejection of the divine. Robo boy is mocking God in that scene as he unleashes what he feels is a biblical Armageddonon the aliens, and OP by calling this assertion and scene Kino, is doing the same.
I don't mind helping from time to time, anon.
What is this moronic logic. If I could execute everyone by snapping my fingers I'm all powerful. If I choose not to be because I'm all good doesn't mean I'm less powerful for it, I just didn't decide to.
Don't bother. If you could reason with athiests we wouldn't have any athiests.
>muh explosion greated the universe
>ok what was there before that?
>ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
repeat forever
you do realise you are living in what happened before the explosion right? idiot
Ah yes, here comes the rational athiest to try and shill time travel to me because he's recently watched Terminator 1, 2 or 3.
Look they're good movies but don't try and push fiction on me, thank you.
It's okay to admit that there are aspects of our existence beyond our current level of understanding. The prime mover argument doesn't necessarily prove that there is a sentient, personified God at the root of everything. It just suggests that there's something we don't know yet.
>there are aspects of our existence beyond our current level of understanding
Absolutely. We have human brains that we don't even fully understand yet. The idea that we can understand or know everything about a universe that is so very much beyond us is utter madness.
>You admit that there are things outside your knowledge, therefore everything you believe is wrong!
This is the same shit atheists try. How are you not seeing this?
So turn it around, you can snap your fingers and make everyone happy, healthy and prosperous. You choose not to. What's your deal you gay?
Not my job b***h. Life wasn't created so it can be lived for you
Humans become very unhappy when they don't experience struggle. Hence, permanent peace, prosperity, health, etc. would eventually lead to more unhappiness. Even if you were to dispute this, what makes happiness, health, and prosperity good? Who defines this good?
>Hence, permanent peace, prosperity, health, etc. would eventually lead to more unhappiness
is this a joke
or is this a terrifying insight into the mind of an idiot?
The point being that if you had everything you wanted you would still want more, and become unhappy. Humans do not find happiness in stagnation, but progression and change, and this inevitably precludes some degree of suffering/unhappiness/what have you. This is why Utopias don't exist and Heaven is a state you reach after your time on earth. Humanity is unable to be satisfied. If you have any arguments to the contrary I'd be happy to hear them.
Wrong, God created us and we chose it. He gave us the choice between Paradise and the World, and we chose the World.
>Wrong, God created us and we chose it. He gave us the choice between Paradise and the World, and we chose the World.
God created humans and chose everything in regards to what we think, feel, like, dislike, and so on
>Create universe that you can see all points of at all times
>Create beings with the precise kind of brains to leave the Garden of Eden, knowing that they will because you can SEE them in the future doing so
>They leave the Garden of Eden
>"You chose this, sucks to suck."
>Humans become very unhappy when they don't experience struggle
Hence Eve chooses to leave paradise, forcing Adam out with her.
And what do we see to this very day, woman will constantly try and shittest their man. Pushing further and further. As it was then, so it is now.
Adam and Eve didn't exist
And? You don't exist.
Whether they existed or not is up for you to decide. But the story of Adam and Eve's downfall is simply one explanation as to why humans drifted away from perfection and why they will have to work for their divine absolution.
tl;dr: If you want to get into heaven you'll have to prove yourself worthy once more, i.e. not betray God and side with the Devil.
But god created humans and chose that
>Why doesn't god stop all suffering
>Humans need suffering to understand joy
>Why did God make us that way
>UHHHHHHHHHH...
Also
>Who defines this good?
So you agree? You think morality is relative?
1. Free will, existence of good necessitates existence of opposite to give it meaning, all creation is defined by what It is and what It is not. Hence, how would joy exist if there was not a state where one is not joyful?
2. It's God, he doesn't have to explain shit (but we can try to figure it out).
Not joyful =/= actively suffering. Although I guess you could make an argument that there are even worse forms of suffering that COULD exist but DON'T. I dunno, I feel like you still haven't answered why we have a subjective experience of suffering.
Re: your second point, yeah I feel like that's pretty obvious, but it's also a very infuriating catch-all and you have to understand that that won't convince anyone who doesn't already believe
>Not joyful =/= actively suffering
Are there any another states of being beyond joy, not joy, suffering, and not suffering?
>dualist christian
You don’t deserve it, none of you c**ts do
Because being soft will make you weak and miserable.
The logical solution to the nature of our universe is that the Big Bang was God dying, and we are the maggots spawning from his corpse.
the catholic pope more like the catholic cope
Zamn, Zaniel
>um ackshully I’m gonna catch an powerful being in a logic trap
It’s that hubris that will send so many of you r*dditors to hell. Well, the hubris and how gay you are.
Not a religious anon but it seems like anyone who thinks like that is missing the bigger picture. If a god is good and all powerful then it is their responsibility to care for *ALL* their creations. Some creations have to die or suffer for the greater good of the greater ecosystem, biosphere, ect. If you get aids and die then that is bad for you, but good for the HIV virus that infected you and the organism that decompose you. In this hypothetical scenario, people assume that they are the end all be all but they're just a little piece of a greaterM4AJAV machine.
The problem with this argument is that it begs the question as to WHY would God set up reality in such a way that suffering is necessary for the greater good.
>filtered by Genesis
Oh, is there a satisfying answer to that? Could you tell me what it is please? I'm genuinely interested.
He's referring to Satan, as if Satan isn't also directly the creation of God and the world he set up
That's disappointing. I've often wondered what the justification was for God not just blinking Satan out of existence the moment he rebelled, and I've looked into it and spoken with some Christians but have yet to hear a good answer.
From the Christian perspective, God did create a world where suffering wasn't necessary. It was Eve that chose for the world to be this way.
In some denominations they believe that after that, God basically threw his hands up and said you're on your own now. This will be used as justification for why there seems to be a lack of evidence for miracles in more modern times, that God only acts or intervenes in Earthly affairs when it's absolutely necessary, for instance, Noah and the great flood.
Well that broadly makes sense, but it still seems like God is just deflecting responsibility. If He created all of reality then why even include a mechanism whereby an apple can create a perpetuity of suffering? Surely He is still responsible for creatin all of that rather than Eve for triggering it (unknowingly at that)?
>If He created all of reality then why even include a mechanism whereby an apple can create a perpetuity of suffering?
To give us choice. Same reason we have some free will. A human (woman, unfortunately) made a call and we're all just living with it.
God I hate women.
Okay, but couldn't you give your children choices without having one of those choices create a setting whereby suffering is a necessary and constant presence for all eternity? I just don't see how arranging that could be seen as benevolent.
Also, I would argue that since we're granted choice but still coerced with the threat of infinite torture and punishment you could probably argue that our freedom of choice is less important to God than people make out. Otherwise why attempt to control us through threats and violence? You want your children to have choices, but you don't want to torture them forever if they make the wrong choices.
>your children
You're comparing how a God views his creations with how a human views his children.
Apples and Oranges. Flawed comparison from the very outset.
What, like "Oh I'd rather have apples from that tree instead of this one." What kind of choice is that? It has no real consequence for deciding. And if there isn't really any consequence, what's the point?
Big moments in one's life, big choices, those are when we reveal who we really are. We show our true character, because there are stakes, there is something to lose. If you already have paradise, the only meaningful decision would be if you want not-paradise.
Whats the point in making children if they are but slaves to you?
Who gave Eve the authority to choose this for every human for the rest of time? Seems like a SLIGHTLY wonky system you've got set up there
Because if one human can frick up, so can every other. Angels themselves rebelled at one point. A third of Heaven.
Humans gave in to the same temptations.
Satan's reason was greed, envy and the desire for more power. Eve was naive and didn't believe God's warning that there is knowledge which people do not need.
The tree of knowledge is the negative experience. If you wonder why kids get cancer, this is the direct result of that. We have been made mortal. Women have been punished to suffer while giving birth, and to be subservient to their men, and men have been cursed to work in order to put food on the table.
But in heaven lies the salvation of mortals, and it is a return to the original source, which is the garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve didn't know pain, suffering or even hard work.
He didn't. It's quite clear that in the state of Eden suffering and competition did not exist.
No he is not referring to Satan lmao. It never ceases to amaze me how confidently atheists speak on things they know nothing about
Okay, so why did He set up this mechanism where suffering and competition are a permanent consequence of someone taking an apple?
Yeah, I expected someone would make this point eventually. I'm sorry, but it's just not some reasoning I can get on board with. It's almost like an acknowledgment that the reasoning that is ascribed to God doesn't make any sense and you have to assume it follows some unknown, incomprehensible form of logic and morality in order to track.
But does that really justify inflicting eternal torment on those you claim to love? Purely because it builds character? That doesn't seem like the actions of a benevolent entity.
>but it's just not some reasoning I can get on board with
Which is fine. I said earlier in the thread that we have human brains that don't even understand themselves yet. You, as a human, or me as a human trying to understand a God older than our species is just not going to happen, especially to somebody who hasn't actually read the Bible
Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with this argument. I just think it's more likely that the whole thing doesn't actually make sense, rather than assuming there is some kind of sense it makes that is just inherently incomprehensible.
I don't hate faith at all here Anon, I'm having a perfectly civilised conversation about your beliefs so I can better understand them. What I don't get is why God even gave us the opportunity to ruin His perfect system. Why make a perfect system in the first place if you're going to plonk a free agent right next to the "ruin everything forever" button?
Sorry if I was mistaken about the eternal torment thing. Is that not what Hell is? Or is it not God that sends people to Hell? I'd like to learn more.
>I just think it's more likely that the whole thing doesn't actually make sense, rather than assuming there is some kind of sense it makes that is just inherently incomprehensible.
"I don't understand it so it's not true, I can absolutely understand what a literal God meant by this"
Ok.
As nicely as possible: I don't see much point talking with somebody so arrogant.
Apologies, I'm not trying to be arrogant. I'm also not saying it's definitely not true, I'm just saying that I think the argument that no human can understand it but it definitely does make sense is a little unsatisfying. I didn't mean any offense.
You're making some strange leaps about what I'm asking here. I'm not saying I don't like free will, nor that I don't like it. I'm asking why an omnipotent, benevolent creator made a world of suffering and competition a requisite for free will. And if that suffering IS a necessity for free will, then why was taking the apple presented as a wrongdoing?
Would you also be able to clarify my questions about Hell since you implied that I've got the wrong end of the stick there.
Thank you both for helping me understand.
Yeah, like I said I do understand this argument but I can't help but feel it's just glossing over logical inconsistencies by just assuming that there is an explanation even if nobody can know it. I guess that's where faith comes in though.
Okay, but if God loves us then why put us next to this permanent suffering trigger without even letting us know what it would do? I just don't see how that could be seen as responsible and benevolent.
>I guess that's where faith comes in though
This is why I brought up the super-genius alien hypothetical. In that situation we could easily surmise that there is some form of coherent logic that they operate on. But again, if they're smart enough, would we be able to comprehend it?
Thought of from another angle, to quote Clarke "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Yeah, that's a quote I'm quite fond of. I can certainly see how this argument can be used to bridge holes in the logic, but unfortunately I can also see it simply being that a belief framework created by humans is logically inconsistent and relies on a "beyond your comprehension" at the root of all the arguments.
Thank you for the conversation though Anon, I appreciate hearing your perspective.
It makes sense, but I still think it all hinges on human nature and curiosity being the way that they are, which is obviously how God created us. I can't help but feel like we were set up to fail. It's like leaving a loaded gun in a toddler's playpen and claiming that the toddler was responsible for whatever outcomes may result from that.
That's not what I'm saying at all, and I'm fairly certain you know that.
>"beyond our comprehension"
Unfortunately, humanity, whether a God or gods exist or not, will likely have to go forever always having something be beyond our comprehension. No matter how far out into the universe we stretch, no matter how advanced our tools and techniques become, there will always be more just beyond our reach.
Again, I understand the hesitancy and caution when approaching this sort of argument. At the same time, our incomplete comprehension is something we also have to accept.
Oh for sure, and I readily accept it. That's why I said earlier in the thread that I don't think "what was there before the Big Bang" counts as evidence of God. It's just a question that can be met with a simple "I don't know" without necessarily assuming a sentient, personified, omnipotent force.
I think I generally feel more comfortable with admitting that there's things about the Universe we don't understand than with assuming that there's some kind of person in control of it all whose logic we don't understand. There's just a few leaps of faith there which don't really connect with me.
>There's just a few leaps of faith there which don't really connect with me
Understandable.
No, I think that you can logically assume the existence of a higher/divine power that created the universe. It's not something that defies all possible reason. The faith part comes in with the specific religion, e.g Christianity, Islam, etc. but I think that too can be reasoned further along than you would think.
Oh sure, and I think this is a line of reasoning which holds more water. The part I'm more sceptical of is that this higher power has a mind, and a personality. I don't assume that gravity has wants and desires, for example.
Yeah, I broadly don't believe in there being a God but I also recognise that I don't have all of the necessary information to definitely say one way or the other. I'm also quite interested in religion, and I like hearing people talk about their beliefs.
Funnily enough I used to be more open to the idea of a God but was far more hostile to religions. Those have now swapped.
I actually have a lot of time for religion, and I think most of them contain some strong advice for social cohesion and serve as a good way of retaining ancient wisdom. I think you can still approach them as philosophy and mythology without necessarily believing in God.
nta but definitely agree here. I still go to my church's youth group every week partly because it's a good way to bond with my churchgoing friends and partly because it's interesting hearing the perspective of someone who heart-and-soul believes. It's good to hold conflicting beliefs even if I'm no longer sure what I believe (classic Christian --> hardcore 13yo atheist --> "Spiritual" --> ???? pipeline)
Fair. I personally think this divine power that created the universe did so intentionally, and that this divine power is purely good/benevolent, but I admit that's it's largely a matter of pure faith that it's the Christian God I personally believe in. That itself is due to several factors, partially being raised it in, but also my own reflections on the nature of consciousness, good and evil, and also beauty. It'd take too long to explain it all on a Nigerian Tanning Forum, but I've got to say it's been a good conversation we've had. I hope you've had a good time as well.
I have. I appreciate your insight and your willingness to engage with me.
This has got to be one of the better discussions of religion/God I've ever seen on this site. And it was Cinemaphile. Re-instilling my faith in Cinemaphile being best board.
>human nature and curiosity being the way that they are, which is obviously how God created us.
That's the essence of it, isn't it? Is our ability to reason and make choices, i.e free will, good? Are we ourselves inherently good? I believe so, though I admit it's an impossible to prove hypothesis. In my mind, the ability to choose, to know, to grow, are such immensely valuable facets of humanity, and our understanding of the good, the true, etc. would not be possible without those abilities and the inherent choice that is the nature of our existence.
Sure, but I also think it's easier to assume that humans are basically good if you don't also believe that all of the suffering that exists in the Universe is a direct result of human actions.
I at least hope if there is a God then He'll also find my position understandable if I'm ever confronted by Him.
>He'll also find my position understandable
This is basically where I'm at as well, just probably leaning slightly more toward belief than you are.
>if God loves us then why put us next to this permanent suffering trigger without even letting us know what it would do?
He did though.
>And the LORD God commanded the man, "You may freely eat of every tree of the garden;
[2:17] but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."
Granted, he might have explained it better, but I think that's a good enough warning. And sure, you can point out that it's his fault it didn't kill Eve stone dead when she ate it, but I feel like the choice has still been made at that point.
The story is metaphorical, and it's both about the choice, but most importantly the inherent character of humanity and the nature of free will. It's not meant to be literally one woman who fricked everyone else over, though it does make for some fun jokes.
If you don't like free will you are welcome to get a lobotomy. But seeing as you don't you clearly like free will and therefore questioning why it was given to you is intellectually dishonest and not worth engaging with.
What? These are very old teachings lmao.
>you can judge people
So uh, guess you better hope God likes narcissists. Because you are saying that you are equal to God.
I bet your "bible study" was a fringe LDS youtuber.
No I'm not lol. We are quite literally called on by Jesus to judge righteously
Bullshit. You're quite literally told not to judge. Any other interpretation is your pride and ego talking, both of which you're supposed to be checking regularly in daily prayer sessions. Instead you're on here pushing blasphemy.
Shame on you.
Wrong.
Nice rebuttal homosexual
>You're quite literally told not to judge.
No. you're quite literally not.
>Judge not that you will not be judged.
For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
>Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
This is why this meme exists.
A perfect system requires choice, i.e free will. Human agency was baked into it from the get go. It's essentially a binary choice, don't eat the fruit and have health, immortality, happiness, etc. or eat the fruit and experience suffering, there's no in-between.
>It's essentially a binary choice, don't eat the fruit and have health, immortality, happiness, etc. or eat the fruit and experience suffering, there's no in-between.
By one single person, who decided everything for everyone for the rest of time, because that's an utterly moronic system to set up in the first place. If I buy some pet rats, why the FRICK would I set up a bunch of murder-traps in the cage that will torture the rest of the rats if any rats step on it? Just because? For fun? Utterly incomprehensible argument to defend this
Eating the fruit introduced chaos, entropy and death into the world.
And god chose for that to be the result of eating the fruit, the fruit was a trap created by god for no reason other than to be a c**t
He didn't. He set up a perfect system and we decided to ruin it. It is through his infinite grace we are allowed agency to make decisions.
>justify inflicting eternal torment
God doesn't do this lmao. So annoying talking to brakndead atheists who literally just have not a single bit of understanding of that which they hate
>mechanism
Free will. Again, he wasn't creating slaves.
>unknown, incomprehensible form of logic and morality
While I understand the frustration at this notion, take some time and consider this. Can a dog conceive of how our minds and morals operate? If an alien species were to visit, and we measured the IQ (as best we could) and we found them to have IQ of over 900. How well do you think we could relate to these aliens? Could we, beyond the basic things like, don't die, reproduce. Basal instinctual things.
>eternal torment
God gave eternal paradise, we rejected. He still offers eternal paradise, we just have to work a little for it now. Much like the average person doesn't really learn the lessons they should the easy way. Most people have to frick something up before they truly learn and grow.
>Free will. Again, he wasn't creating slaves
>Except that whole Eve and apple thing, she decided everything for you LMAO
>we rejected
>we
One person ruined it for everyone else? Where's the choice for humanity in that?
None of us have gotten offered fruit
I have an aquarium. I have snails in there that help me eat algae, which will build up. They eat the algae, multiply, outbreed the food source, die off, algae comes back, rinse and repeat. This is a cruel system, the snails have to suffer and die. The thing is, I didn't create this aquarium nor the snails, I am not all powerful in the realm of aquariums and fish. If I was I would not design such a cruel system, because why would I ever want the snails to have to suffer and die just because some arbitrary rule I set up about "food sources", and so on?
>quotes Lex from BvS
>posts an image from Covenant
Huh?
Yeah, but see, he was thinking about Oppenheimer when he posted it.
He's an all around shitliker
"Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?"
--Sister Miriam Godwinson, "But for the Grace of God"
kino game. most people go into it supporting the stemlord faction, but come out supporting the believers
"GOD IS EITHER EVIL OR WEAK"
Ok, how can you even say what is evil or good? lmao. Besides that, he promised eternal life to the loyal. If you think even 200 years of pure suffering comes close to a ETERNAL PERFECT LIFE, you should have a nice day, NOW
>let me cut you up bro
>it'll hurt, but when you die you'll go to paradise trust me bro
yeah nah
how do you know you will get eternal life?
>if he is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful.
why?
Morality is inherently restrictive.
He would stop evil
You call it evil, but it's just a feature of nature
David did not say that.
>placing human inabilities on an entity which can create life at will
shiggydiggy
why was he crying during this scene?
Because he was making something beautiful
Can i sneedpost in heven? Heaven finna be slaw?
Yes, you can. And I won't have to read it.
Heaven.
>be ridley
>be atheitst or someshit probably
>every movie : bible
>becomes murderous because of conflict between its programming and its assigned mission
is it what makes people conscious? being able to hold two contradicting views, and not going insane
>if God is all-powerful, he cannot be all-good.
Read the bible. God's not all good.
"Abraham, if you love me so much, then kill your son for me. Wait, stop! Don't kill your son! Holy shit, you were really going to do it!"
>if Yahve is all-powerful, israelites cannot be chosen And if israelites is chosen, then Yahve cannot be all-powerful.
Okay for the people that want to keep going on about setting up a "perfect" system.
Let's say you are immortal, for all intents and purposes, and you decide to build yourself a Rube Goldberg machine. You build it 'perfectly' it runs the exact same each and every time. How quickly do you think you might get bored?
Now add in just the tiniest bit of chance, or chaos into the machine. What do you think the results will be?
So suffering is there to stop God from getting bored?
Sorry anon, didn't realize existence was literally nothing but suffering 24/7 for every single being to ever exist. Strange, I don't seem to be suffering currently. And I can't imagine you're experiencing some horrendous level of suffering right now if you're finding the time to post on Cinemaphile.
If you're talking transhumanism to the extent of joywiring then yeah, we'd die like the rats with an endless drip feed of opium.
If you're talking about elevating consciousness and improving cognitive functioning beyond our imaginations, then who knows what happens.
Without a nervous system or chemical reactions in our brain how would we feel any joy? So transferring consciousness to a machine seems pointless.
Ultimately it'll be balanced. You don't want neural link to become the next smartphone trend.
"He did it because he was bored" would oppose both the "all powerful" and "good" clauses
Goodness precludes boredom?
Power precludes bordom?
Torturing people to amuse yourself is evil, yes. Being unable to resist boredom is very much a point against your "all powerfulness", you don't even have power over yourself then
>Thou shall not kill
>Plenty of people gets killed in the bible
This has to be a plot hole
I forgot its summer.
It is within God's good that he gave us total free will to rule over the mortal domain, so we can be free to choose the path to him on our own.
So he is both all-powerful and all-good.
How the frick is that "good" in any way? How is it good to set up a weird psycho obstacle course fot people to gain the right to simp for you? Is god a bipolar e-girl?
I especially like when libertarians fedora atheists use that quote
>rants about the nanny state
>"but why doesn't god control each second of all our lives and prevent bad things from happening? Eheh that means God doesn't exists"
If god was both good and all powerful then I wouldn't mind him micro-managing my life, he'd take care of me. I don't want Joe Biden or Trump to micro manage my life.
how did he managed to pop in on the incredibly technologically advanced race of übermensch and deploy weapons of mass destruction with no issues? don't they have radar? what air defense doing?
>So God should take away your free will?
>nooooo that would be evil
>but anon you yourself do evil so if he doesn't take away your free will then the only way to make everything perfect for everyonr with no evil in the world would be to erase you from existence.
>noooooo that'd make him evil!
Uh huh
>Lives in a deterministic universe
>Believes in free will
Do compatibilists really
Free will is good and also the source of evil. Checkmate Chud.
If God allows suffering/evil because of free will, but there is no suffering or evil in heaven, then why didn't he just make the earth like heaven?
Or, does that mean we have no free will in heaven?
I don't think there's one religion that preaches a singular, "all-good" entity.
Why do people have this misconception? Is it just for the sake of argument?
Liberal manbabies:
>Oh my heckin' god the capeshit said the self help trauma psychologist quote I like! KINO!
Chuddy manbabies:
>Oh my heckin' god the capeshit said the edgy NRX philosophy quote I like! KINO!
god here
i hate you all.
Wtf is that disclosure?
feelings mutual
You're only a Christian because you were born in a Christian country. If you were born in the Middle East, you'd probably be a Muslim. If you were born 1000 years ago in Scandinavia, you'd be a Pagan. If you were born in India you'd be a Hindu.
Your geographic location determines your religion.
>oh man, I am sure am lucky to be born in the region of the earth that practices the RIGHT religion!! All those other religions across the world are fake!!
Some would ask, how could a perfect God create a universe filled with so much that is evil. They have missed a greater conundrum: why would a perfect God create a universe at all?
Evil is a side effect of free will. God didn't want to impose one way of conduct over his creation. But freedom of choice isn't freedom of consequence.
Death and evil didn't exist until Lucifer rebelled, at which point they materialized. And they didn't exist for people up until they themselves gave in to temptation and disobeyed God's advice.
God is omnipotent, he knows everything that will happen.
Why the frick did he create satan in the first place?
No satan means no hell, no original sin, etc. Satan really fricked everything up for humanity, and now we have to pay for his frick up
Because God deemed free will a necessary extension of sentient beings.
True love for God can only happen naturally, one cannot be forced into it.
Satan (formerly Lucifer) had everything one can desire and more. It was his hubris and greed that made him unhappy with his position. He was envious of God and the Son, and wanted to take their place.
When he was cast out of Heaven along with his followers, he decided to have his revenge by tampering with God's newest creation - people.
He is ultimately responsible for our downfall. Whether or not we are absolved is up to us and who we chose to side with, God or Satan.
>God didn't want to impose one way of conduct over his creation
Revealing his existence is imposing in its own right. Our consequences at the end and into eternity (however long that might be) are tied to his will, not ours.
yuo don't get it your crippling illness is just an effect of a relative non-existance so god didn't make it
>saying the same thing twice
What a bad quote
i like this scene alot not because its correct but it just shows the sophistication of moronation
>a machine will never be more intelegent than a toaster
>machines cannot create life so are not alive
skip to
a machine now pondering things outside of his understanding
its a great scene but it is not showing the fallibility of god but a repeated cycle of hubris doomed to fail
its the chokovs gun for his own distruction btw
>machines are superior to humans
uhhhh ohhhh
How do you define "all good" maybe evil has to exist and bad things need to happen for the betterment of the universe
The more important question is how you define evil.
Giving robitz freewill is moronic and will be the end of us.
People that supposedly have free will
>mentally ill in general; let alone schizoaffective types that aren’t grounded in reality and have no idea what they’re doing when they go insane
>nonverbal autists that don’t understand how to use the toilet
>severe brain damage patients
>people that were never exposed to religion in general or the ‘right one,’ they have the free will to suddenly find god at any point in their lives