If Heath Ledger was still alive to play Joker in this movie would it have made that big of a difference to the overall quality beyond a minor plot element? The movie was going to be mainly about Bane in the first place, but in interviews Nolan acts as if Ledger dying irl really tore apart the final part.
TDK>BB>TDKR
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With Heath in it, Nolan would probably have given a shit about the movie instead of half-assing it.
>That's a-bingo
No one wanted to make the movie after Heath died and Nolan had to re-think/write the whole thing
This. He made the movie as a contractual obligation but he had no enthusiasm for it. Nolan is a pro so it's not like he completely phoned it in but shit like Cotillard's hilarious death scene and some of the more meme-able bits of dialogue probably get improved if he was 100% invested. It wasn't half-assed but it was like 85%-assed
checked
I feel like the movies arc of Bruce becoming Batman happening twice is a result of Nolan feeling the need to fill time that would've otherwise been spent on Bane and Joker interactions. Those scenes would've elevated the rest of the film way beyond its current cut.
I could only guess Nolan had an idea for a script that he had to toss out once Ledger died and the new one was written hastily afterwards.
Don't really see what Joker would have brought to the table. What was he gonna do, have them team up to punch Bane?
On an unrelated note; what the frick happened to all of the firearms the GCPD/SWAT had when they were trapped in the sewers? Like you see them go in, fully armed, but then when they're fighting Bane's army at the end they're just sprinting like cavalry with batons and shit. I think Matthew Modine may have had a WWII replica bolt action rifle from his house, but I could just be imagining that. Anyway, what happened to their weapons? Did they eat them?
>What was he gonna do, have them team up to punch Bane?
Guess how I know your birthday starts in a 2.
Joker vs Batman vs Bane vs Joker
Bane belongs to the league
Some tunnels are made of concrete and explosives
Bane probably wouldn't have even been the villain if Ledger was still alive it would have been a completely different story. Nolan didn't even like Bane as a character it was Goyer that convinced him to use him.
Denver shooting wouldn't have happened
>If Heath Ledger was still alive to play Joker in this movie
it's clear that joker was originally meant to be part of the ras al ghul crew which would ruin his character in the sequel
>how I got these scars
this is clearly a reference to bruce blowing up the league of assasins place in batman begins
this is the worst headcanon i done ever seen i can't even be ironic about this
not my theory
it's as old as the actual movie
everyone ignored it after heath died
the actual theory claims that the joker because "the joker" during batman begins and that he went insane because of the scarecrow gas.
>how he got these scars
is because batman fricked him up with his arm blades during the events of batman begins
this makes sense but i like the theory he's a soldier like rambo that played around with cards in his tour and the truckload of soldiers reference was pretty specific to make this theory inticing. also, the wounds are either from battle or him doing that to himself in a psychotic break. i wish the Nolan movies were actually dark and realistic and not just capeshit but with a real world aesthetic that's thinly veiled.
>this is clearly a reference to bruce blowing up the league of assasins place in batman begins
>The group that kicked out Bane for being a psychopath will surely take in the clown themed serial killer
Supposedly his only planned role was to be the judge in the courtroom scene.
The story would probably have focused on the consequences of lying about Harvey's actions in TDK instead of that getting the Blackgate scene but otherwise not mattering much in TDKR.
Batman Begins and TDK were so kino, going in to watch the last movie after these two is just underwhelming. TDKR is still way better than todays capeshit, but only marginally
For me it's only Batman Begins, TDK was too dour and simplistic in it's aesthetic and I didn't like the crime drama aesthetic. I preferred the operatic grandiose style of BB.
BB's Gotham also had more distinctive landmarks versus it just being Chicago and New York in the sequels.
TDK is absolute garbage. The Joker is the only saving grace of the film and he just happens to be so good he tricked people into thinking the rest of the movie was good too.
>Harvey Dent is the only saving grace of the film
FTFY
>gf dies
>oh no better start killing children now.
he went from the best good guy around to wanting to kill children after losing a girl that he probably knew for less than a year.
In all fairness (ba dum, tss) he didn't single out children, he was just biased against Gordon for his (rightful) accusations of trying to manipulate Gotham with Batman. He went for Gordon's wife first. I didn't really have an issue with Dent's arc. After all, all it takes is one bad day. Think about Bamham himself. Took him over 20 years to realize his fault, and because of the moronic ass ending of TDKR, it's questionable if he even did realize it.
Biggest issue with TDK is he just kills Dent. All of the buildup of his skill and tech from the last two films, even the previous scene with Joker, and suddenly all of it just dissipates in a clumsily edited scene of Batman bumrushing Harvey and then a cut to his lifeless(?) body.
Jesus FRICK why can Nolan not hire a proper editor? Christ there are so many laugh out loud cuts in this movie. Lookin' at you, Gambol. Rest in piece my man, I didn't even know you were dead because of how fricking stupid your "death" scene is.
>TDKR is still way better than todays capeshit, but only marginally
eh, no. tdkr is purely a meme vessel, it has no redeeming qualities otherwise. is it better than slop like the marvels? sure but you're comparing a turd to a turd.
>has a gimp leg
>wonder how thats going to affect the story
Gets fixed with magic leg brace, never to be mentioned again
>Gets a broken back
>Wonder how thats going to affect the story
Gets fixed with magic rope therapy, never to be mentioned again.
>Gets back to the city
>Spends the entire day painting the bat symbol on the bridge with gasoline
Why do people like Nolan movies again?
Pretty sure Goyer said in an interview that the third movie was supposed to be about Joker's trial for his crimes and it was at that trial where he scars Harvey Dent with acid. This was a long time ago when TDK was in preproduction tho so who knows how much he changes the original script since then.
Just about anything would’ve been an improvement over the finished product we received. Casting the skinny manlet Tom Hardy as the villain had to be one of the worst decisions in filmmaking history.
Even fricking Danny DeVito was more intimidating.
Why did Alfred burn Rachel's letter?
Bruce was under the assumption that Rachel was going to wait for him to finish being Batman, but the letter said otherwise. Bruce was already devastated by Rachel's death and questioned his ability to be Batman. Alfred knew that if he read the letter he would be further crushed and might put up the cape forever(thus letting Joker win).
>Alfred knew that if he read the letter he would be further crushed and might put up the cape forever
That's the point though, because this was Alfred's entire motivation. He WANTED Bruce to move on. He provided tangerine wisdom as support, but ultimately was a mirror of Luscious Fox in that he supported him, but did not encourage the path. Alfred wanted Bruce Wayne to help Gotham, and even more importantly to help himself, not Batman.
So basically were the writers fricking smoking something while writing this script? I genuinely have no idea why Alfred is even in this movie and the one saving grace of the sequel is that he has that embarrassing Oscar moment, proving once and for all that Michael Caine cannot act to save his life, and then he fricking disappears from the movie.
All of the aforementioned is, of course, a major theme of Batman Begins. Alfred carries over into both sequels, but the burning of the letter makes no sense.
He may have wanted to move on, but he also knew that only Batman could defeat Joker.
Batman didn't defeat Joker, numbnuts. Marsellus Wallace did when he chucked the walkie-talkie off the boat, when it awkwardly hit the window and then clumsily fell into the water, but Nolan didn't want to do another take because frick it I guess it worked.
Jokester cleaned up the streets more in a few weeks than Batman did in a decade. If anything, if Bruce Wayne's psyche wasn't a major factor, he and Gordon could have used Joker's obsession with the former to properly manipulate the criminal activity of Gotham, but unfortunately they both have God complexes. Medellín.
nice argument , but check this out *farts on your head*
joke's on you i'm into that shit
I know babe
No. Joker was about to finish the job and blow up both boats with his own detonator(sometimes you gotta do everything yourself) but Batman stopped him with his shooting gauntlet, thus saving everyone and defeating teh jocker.
So only Batman could do what any security guard with a taser could do?
I see Batman's value now. Precisely $9/hr.
what third world shithole do you live in that security only makes $9/hr?
United States
rachel is such a fricking moron c**t for writing that letter when she knew that bruce was batman and was going through all that.
like holy shit
And Lyanna Stark was moronic for not just telling Big Bobby that she didn't love him. Women are moronic, but men being written as being psychologically affected for a lifetime because of baffling cases of Oneitis are even more moronic.
Joker was supposed to break out of the asylum and go rampaging with his escape inmates while bane did that 1 thing.
The whole concept of Gotham City ruined my suspension of disbelief because in real life no one would choose to live in such a violent filthy corrupt decaying urban rat maze.
Then I visited Philadelphia and learned that 1.5 million people voluntarily live there.
Comic Book Gotham is in New Jersey, which is a sufficient enough explanation for why its an irredeemable shithole without having to rely on the layer cake of curses, demons and other supernatural bullshit that comic writers came up with to explain why the problems can't just be money'd away.
>tfw we didnt get a scene of Bane btfo'ing joker because he was too chaotic
PIS aside Bane would destroy joker like 9/10 times btw
>Wanna see a magic trick?
>You're a funny guy
>For you