In a series filled with space wizards, mind magic, and talking furries. Is this scene really unbelievable?
In a series filled with space wizards, mind magic, and talking furries. Is this scene really unbelievable?
In a series filled with space wizards, mind magic, and talking furries. Is this scene really unbelievable?
Yes, because those things are grounded in that universes reality. Being a Mary sue is not. Being able to pilot a star ship on your first try, and not just avoid crashing but actually out maneuver trained pilots is stupid. More stupid than anakin in episode 1 who had auto pilot and r2 at least. Knowing the innerworkings of a star ship because you scrapped them makes no sense at all, and she found out how to make the ship fly better when Han and chewie who worked on that ship for decades couldn’t? Lol. More dumb than anakin making his own speeder. Using the force 5 minutes after learning she was capable of it is dumb, at least Luke had to train for a long time before he could use it effectively. She’s just a Mary sue, in way worse ways than things that were criticized in the PT, yet she gets a pass because she’s a woman. Shit character.
>Death Star run
>seasoned trained pilots die left and right
>Luke survives because he used to race in the sand
Yeah, those Mary Sues sure are a problem...
the death star run is also shitty, a new hope and return of the jedi are shitty, empire strikes back is literally the only good star wars movie.
a new hope is like a half decent childrens movie, empire strikes back is the only reason that people treat it like its a thing that is reasonable for adults to kind of like.
Cope
>Luke doesn't know how to fly the falcon and even ignorant of it's systems like "WHAT'S THAT FLASHING!!?!?!
>gets beat up by tusken raiders and has to be saved by obi-wan (mary rey sue can handle multiple opponents with ease)
>doesn't undertand R2 (mary rey sue somehow can understand BB8 and other alien languages)
>loses to vader in a duel in the next movie
>etc.
Luke had plenty of failures and limitations and developed as a character. It's genuinely moronic to try and compare the two characters, they are not even close.
luke could understand R2 what are you talking about
he has Babelfish on his X-Wing monitor
he's mistaking Luke saying "I don't understand you" or whatever in ANH for him not speaking droid, which is dumb. It's not that Luke didn't speak droid its that R2 was saying nonsense about obi wan kenobi and other dumb shit.
Wrong
3PO had to translate for him when they were talking in the first movie. The only other times he was able to talk to R2 is when he was in the X-wing and it translated for him
He had a screen in his X-Wing that translated R2D2, and in other cases he looked confused before trying to figure out context of the beeps if he didn't have C-3PO around. He probably learned some context over time but he never understood droid.
i'm pretty sure theres scenes where he's talking to r2 out side the xwing
Lots of people talk to their appliances.
i meant having conversations back and forth, responding to what r2 says.
no, they set up the star wars movies in a really cliche way where it would be hard to do something subversive to it without it being dog shit, they could have rewrote and designed the structure of the narrative from the ground up, but instead they basically started it as a new hope again but with a girl, and then had to add unexpected shit on top of that, so they chose something horrible.
>i meant having conversations back and forth, responding to what r2 says.
He doesn't do this.
Doesn't he talk to him on dagobah in the swamp?
He talks at him. He literally says:
>If you're saying coming here was a bad idea, I'm beginning to agree with you.
He doesn't understand R2, he just guesses at what the beeps mean based on context. The only times he has an actual exchange is when 3P0 or his xwing is translating.
bit rude to say that to a foreign person if you don't understand their language, but they can understand yours.
Midwit post.
you come across as a shill just telling everyone that they are dumb without giving any arguments.
i wouldn't be surprised if you literally worked for disney trying to create the false impression that actually the new movies are good so as to brainwash kids into just accepting absolute trash.
major nitpick i have with star wars is that its called "star wars' not "star war" so i don't understand why it just has to be the same conflict over and over again with teh same charectors or relatives of teh same charectors.
you could tell lots of different interesting stories in this universe but its always just "the empire versus the republic" over and over and over again.
You would have a point of Rey and Ben's dynamic wasn't more interesting than any two character's dynamics in the prequels or the originals.
qui gon jinns dynamic of being an outsider jedi that has a strained relationship with the council and his own concerned padawan was pretty interesting.
rey and ben's dynamic remains interesting even if you don't have rey just beat up ben super easily in the first movie.
They constantly clown ben and make him look like a fool, like when he fights luke skywalker which was a fricking joke of a fight scene.
its clear that ben was a charector that was made to represent the average guy who is a star wars fan who had ideas of how star wars should be, and by aping on him and making him look like a fool, they are saying "this aint a star wars for YOU chud", so they were shitting on teh very demographic of people that would have supported teh movies, the thing they didn't understand is that, shitting on the main demographic wouldn't have opened up the franchise to other demographics, nor did putting in random vietnamese chicks.
Qui and Obi-Wan would have been an interesting dynamic if that was an actual focus, the problem was it wasn't and was just tacked on amongst all the other stuff happening. The Phantom Menace could have been wildly better.
all of the prequels would have been way better and maybe even kind of good if it was a tv show instead of three movies because then it would have given every idea space to breathe, there was just too much shit going on at too fast a pace.
I agree, but I still really believe attack of the clones is the best one cause it breathes a bit with Anakin, Padme and Obi-Wan.
He talks to r2 in the swamp
>>Luke survives because he used to race in the sand
Luke survived only because Han saved him at the last minute (also Kenobi's internal guidance). Otherwise, Vader would've shot him down. Don't be a disingenuous gay.
Young man rises up to effectively challenge the power, is a normal part of life. "Tiny pretty girl beats up alpha males because they are meanies and it's women's turn to be strong," is loser power fantasy. See the difference?
>one of those trained pilots actually sets up luke was a good pilot
>luke also meanders around most of the battle and only lives because han bailed him out
Hmmm.....
>one of those trained pilots actually sets up luke was a good pilot
That scene wasn't added until the special editions, you fricking zoomer. So you think the original film was broken for 20 years before the revisions fixed it? lmao
Not really, film works with that scene or not. You're the one who seems to have an issue with Luke being portrayed as an ok pilot who gets bailed out multiple times in his first fight.
Luke was going to get annihilated and only did it because of his force training. and Han solo ""the power of friendship" saving his ass at the last minute. If that was rey she would bypass the character development and solo vader.
Idiot. A character having background IS better story telling than a character having no background
What is a "Mary Sue"? Is that some sort of slang?
It's incel slang
So what does it mean?
"I'm going to pretend Luke Skywalker wasn't given extreme plot armor in the Death Star run or that male heroes typically are given the same and complain about woman character doing things and say she isn't even a real character!"
>the main character not dying is extreme plot armor
That's just normal plot armor, anon. No one is bothered by this.
It's a term for a self-insert character without flaws. Of course, it's mostly being thrown around by manbabies on youtube who don't really know what it means and supposed to be insulting.
what if it's your OWN universe though? i get it in the original sense of
>herp derp Catherine Myname walks onto the USS Enterprise bridge and Captain Kirk falls in love with her
but if it's Star Wars, they're the ones WRITING Star Wars.
and what about a new series/setting, like Harry Potter? Harry is literally perfect and the Chosen One and people just love him, give him money, he's great at sports, magic, everything. is he therefore a Mary Sue to these people?
Snape was hatting on Harry day 1 and he was just a normie for the most part, outside of almost everyone he loved dying.
> outside of almost everyone he loved dying.
wat
What kid wouldn't want their parents to die, their godfather to die infront of them, their pet, their friendly autistic elf die infront of them.
>and what about a new series/setting, like Harry Potter? Harry is literally perfect and the Chosen One and people just love him, give him money, he's great at sports, magic, everything. is he therefore a Mary Sue to these people?
what kind of question is that? yes, people have the exact same complaints about harry potter, a series which also sucks. literally the only audience that buys this shit is zoomers who like media that tells them they can be special without actually doing anything.
gonna nitpick here
Harry actually wasn't very outstanding at all
he was good at riding a broom and had a knack for charms and his patronus was very powerful
he sucked at potions, and Hermione outright carries him through mundane studying
actually, Ron gets overlooked, all the Weasleys are brilliant and talented Wizards, he's much more than the goofy sidekick
As I said here:
, HP is not a Gary Stu. His powers to talk to snakes was enabled by Voldermort, since he was his horcrux. His protection came from his mother. He is average at magic, as proved in battles even against Malfoy. He had a huge support network. The only Gary Stu thing about him was that he was a naturally excelent player. He even wear glasses and is average in beauty.
It's a term for the sort of character you usually get in bad fan fiction. Some common traits of a Mary Sue include:
>Being naturally skilled at pretty much anything they attempt
>Usually liked by pretty much everyone straight away, and anyone who doesn't like the character usually has petty reasons (jealous of the attention/admiration the Mary Sue gets, etc.)
>Rarely has any meaningful character flaws or significant skills that they aren't amazing at
>On the rare occasions they do suffer some kind of setback, it's usually not anything actually serious
That's just a few examples, and it's worth noting that a character doesn't have to have *all* of those traits to qualify as a Mary Sue.
Mary sue and Gary Stu are slangs for characters that are overpowered and everything works at their favor without any work done by said characters.
People used to argue that Harry Potter was a Gary Stu, the later movies/books proved he's actually average, but he had a lot of support from EVERYONE around him. So, except for the the first two books, it was proved he's only really good at sports.
Rey, on the other hand, is a Mary Sue, she can do anything and surpass their masters in a week.
If you watched that Golden Boy anime, the main character was a Gary Stu.
Goku, on the other hand, is not. Gohan could have been, but he actually trains a lot too, as implied in the last movie.
Sakura Card Captor is a Marue Sue, but she's just too charismatic, so you endup liking her.
It wasn't her first time flying, Han hadn't been on the ship in years after portions guy had made adjustments to it, and it's a running gag in Empire that Han is a shitty mechanic who doesn't know how to fix the Falcon
you're just a manchild who can't handle Han Solo being upstaged by a woman even when the context makes sense for it to happen
>it's a running gag in Empire that Han is a shitty mechanic who doesn't know how to fix the Falcon
Pretty much
>you're just a manchild who can't handle Han Solo being upstaged by a woman even when the context makes sense for it to happen
This is why Harrison Ford himself hates Star Wars, it's gotta be the fandom of crazy nerds
The context doesn't make sense because her skills as a mechanic are not established. They are revealed out of nowhere as they become necessary to overcome some obstacle. It really doesn't take much to establish basic character traits like this, but TFA never makes the attempt.
A simple solution would have been to make the Falcon Rey's home instead of the AT-AT. They could have shown her keeping some of her scavenged parts for herself as the Falcon was going to be her ticket off Jakku. None of this would have demanded any additional screentime or exposition and would have provided the requisite background required for Rey to demonstrate her technical expertise.
wookieepedia and its consequences have been disastrous for the human race
If you don't get that a scrapper living in an AT-AT who can navigate the insides of a crashed ship to find and fix up its valuable parts is mechanically adept you're too stupid to be making helpful suggestions on anything.
I can understand that a random guy on the street who I know literally nothing about might be mechanically adept. It has nothing to do with believability, it's about how you structure a story and the characters within it. Introducing obstacles that are immediately overcome without struggle is pointless. And when this happens repeatedly throughout the story with each obstacle faced, you're left with a character who feels more like Adam West's Batman, pulling from his belt the perfect solution every time.
>yes it's totally reasonable and adequate explanation that Luke playing with a toy plane model of an in-atmo crop duster is the only rationalization we get that he can pilot military grade aircraft in zero-g
>this is NOT because he's a male protagonist and I watched the movie when I was a toddler, it just MAKES MORE SENSE! STOP ARGUING SHILL GHUIOPEFGIOPU;HAWEHUIO;IO[HJJIFEIOHRTHNUO;ASHUIO;GBlack person
>Literally has a line explaining that he had prior experience piloting similar ships and was actually pretty skilled at flying and shooting small targets later on in the movie
I'm really fricking embarrassed that this board of supposed film experts don't even know what the original film was like anymore
in 10 years people will have completely forgotten that Han was the only one who fired
Zoomies don't even know that Jabba was a regular human before Lucas' remastered versions turned him into a bad CGI slug.
You won't believe how many arguments I've gotten into with Star Wars fans, both irl and online, who don't know that Jabba's first on-screen appearance was in Return of the Jedi because the special edition has completely replaced the original movie for a vast majority of the fanbase
I hate Lucas so much it's unreal
>Cinemaphile
>Experts at anything but b***hing
Not only is that the way SW has always been structured, there is a lot of visual storytelling in our initial introduction to Rey. We get the hints immediately that she's dark side affiliated by our first look at her being the storm trooper mask, and her living in an AT-AT. We get more demonstrations of her technical aptitude than we get of Luke's in ANH. We also get more of her force user development than we see of Luke's in ANH. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill because you are insecure about women. I know this is happening because I saw all the 2015 threads about how Rey was going to get BLACKED, and those also turned out to be the baseless worries of beta males.
No, it isn't. A New Hope repeatedly beats you over the head with the fact that Luke is a pilot. This is revisited multiple times throughout the film before we finally see Luke climb into a wienerpit. It's very explicit about this. It is not a matter of little visual hints or suggestions. It's practically slapping you in the face with this information. TFA has none of this. Rey demonstrates extreme competence with virtually no set up whatsoever.
>A New Hope repeatedly beats you over the head with the fact that Luke is a pilot.
He has never piloted a spaceship, let alone participated in a space battle. Cope and seethe.
They explicitly tell you he has.
When?
When they repeatedly talk about Luke being a good pilot. What are you having trouble with?
>Luke talking about being a good pilot is sufficient supporting evidence
>Rey saying she's a pilot is not
You know what the difference here is?
Space Jesus Vader and Boba
The difference is that ANH establishes this fact in advance whereas TFA reveals it only when it becomes necessary to what's immediately happening on screen. I already told you this. Again, what are you having trouble with?
We never see Luke pilot a ship, we get oblique references to him flying a crop duster and the fact that he can drive a car. We see Rey on her motorcycle and then we see her clumsily pilot the Falcon, before using the force to escape. She's actually a much better character than Luke because they cut out the ace pilot shit and gave it to Poe. Anakin and Luke were too good at everything, Rey is at least only very good at a couple of things and ok at a couple of others.
>We never see Luke pilot a ship
We don't need to. The script never minces any words about Luke's piloting abilities.
>we see her clumsily pilot the Falcon
A rocky take off followed by some of the most effective piloting ever seen in the entire franchise isn't what I'd describe as clumsy.
>Luke were too good at everything
Luke isn't good at anything, though.
Again, knowing what parts are valuable enough to be worth salvaging doesn't automatically mean you know how to diagnose and repair issues with the systems they're part of. Any idiot can take a car apart with the right tools, but that doesn't mean they'll be able to put it back together and have it still function afterward.
Listen, you're a moron who is missing all the context clues and backstory about how she was a professional scavenger raised by a scrap salesman who helped repair or augment ships like the Falcon. But even if for the sake of argument we throw away all those mundane explanations here's the silver bullet so you shut the frick up.
Sidious made a clone son who had Rey, so she's very powerful with the force, the same way Anakin was able to built C3PO from scratch at like 8 despite being an illiterate moron growing up in a hut with a slave mom. Now have a nice day.
>Being a Mary sue is not
Luke literally took out the Death Star on his first day as a fighter pilot/force user. Anaking built a robot when he was like five.
Have sex.
Luke got his shit kicked in every time he fought a trained Sith. He only wins the final time by talking. Stop sucking the goysmegma of billionaire dollar corporations. You're better than that.
>Using the force 5 minutes after learning she was capable of it is dumb, at least Luke had to train for a long time before he could use it effectively.
The better comparison is in the lightsaber fights
>Ep4
>Luke cannot even engage in the fight, has to stand off at the side and watch helplessly
>Ep5
>Luke can barely defend himself, is just toyed with by Vader and ends up having to run away with a nasty injury
>Ep6
>It is now just about an even fight
versus
>Ep7
>Rey is initially on the back foot, but feels the force or someshit idk and is suddenly able to go toe-to-toe with Kylo, incapacitate him, and get away unscathed
Luke was a relatively pampered farm boy, Rey was a destitute scrapper who had to fight for every portion she could get and to avoid getting ass raped by aliens. We see her fighting abilities with her staff when Finn first meets her. Luke also had never heard of the Force before Obiwan told him about it, Rey had a general idea of the Jedi and the story of the OT, so when she gets confirmation that all that stuff is for real she takes it on a lot more naturally than Luke did. The Force is magic that operates on belief and conviction, it's never been an academic training
>b-b-but the Force being powered by spirit and belief is gay it's like Disney!!!!
I know zoomers have never actually watched the OT and the prequels midichlorian powerlevel nonsense has completely replaced the OT's metaphysical spirituality, but there is an entire scene in Empire Strikes Back about this.
>I don't believe it
>THAT is why you fail
You're desperately missing the point. You're arguing about the dry technicalities, when I'm talking about storytelling. One begins by establishing the disparity between hero and villain, and shows the hero rising to meet it. The other begins with a hero already able to best the villain, and so gives less room for progression over the sequels.
Although
>Rey was a destitute scrapper who had to fight for every portion she could get and to avoid getting ass raped by aliens
is a fricking moronic way of trying to explain it, it's implying that backwater morons fighting over scraps has somehow prepped her to fight a literal fricking knight, using a weapon she's got no experience with but that he's been training with for a long long time (and that applies to both the lightsaber and the Force)
>>b-b-but the Force being powered by spirit
>I know zoomers have never actually watched the OT
You're posting fricking screencaps from the bits where Luke had to go off into the swamp to actually learn how to channel it properly.
> has completely replaced the OT's metaphysical spirituality
The OT's treatment of the Force was couched in Orientalist mysticism, which is all about going off into the mountains and spending centuries introspecting until you achieve enlightenment or whatever. It's not just milquetoast white woman 'you have to believe in yourself!' positivism.
No, Star Wars fans are just moronic homosexuals and or virgins. Luke does more Mary Sue shit than Rey does. Anything that upsets the fandom is based.
Great b8 m8
It was never established that yanking random parts out of somebody's ship will make it better, so this is a dumb scene for dumb people. Rey only scavenged wrecked ships, she has no idea how a working one would operate.
>it was never established
You stupid fricking c**t, movies aren't made to "follow rules" and do only what you think should be done and expect.
If the situation is one of danger, it's far more rewarding to watch characters figure out a solution from known parameters than with magic, like yanking out a part from a ship you've never been in before.
Sorry Jar Jar didn't yank it out with his tongue while sharting.
Yes
CHUD
> Rey Walker Multipass
No, it's not unbelievable, and that is one of the few scenes that isn't trouble because it was obviously established that the way she made any living on that shithole planet she was from was by scavenging old space wrecks, so being a decent mechanic is not a stretch. Even her Force affinity isn't that bad although she skips every step of development, but you could pass that off as her background.
What makes her mediocre as a character is that every other character immediately respects and adores her, for absolutely no reason. Luke was disregarded by everybody but Obi-Wan until he pulls off a near impossible act to save the Rebel Alliance (which he was assisted in doing), and then even then he is constantly underestimated by his friends and enemies afterward.
That actually is a good rundown.
>anon can't follow a hero's journey because it has a non-troony attractive white woman lead
Yikes tbh
It's interesting to add the hero could come from any background and rise to the top but there were costs.
Now the hero is always female and is automatically better than everyone (especially males), guaranteed to rise to the top with help! AND doesn't have to change or sacrifice anything in order to change.
this is the most deranged and badly written psyops
>be rey
>literally die and need a male to bring you back
What more do you sexists want
>muh monomyth
You buttholes are insufferable. The hero's journey is an outdated concept that's overstayed its welcome. Only sexless incels care about it.
the heroes journey is just breaking down into segments the journey of struggling and then over coming that struggle.
which is a universally enjoyed process in story telling.
>this pillar of story writing that has existed since literally the dawn of human writing thousands of years ago is bad, mary sues are better
You are the literal reason everything that gets made sucks now. You'd rewrite the odyssey to be worse if you could
not every movie or story has to follow the heros journey or use it as a template; but a star wars movie should, because that was the original intent behind it. JJ does a good job of recreating Lucas's aesthetics from the ot, but does a bad job of copying his themes or storytelling. Same with Rhian in TLJ, a story about deconstructing hero myths isnt a bad idea for a movie, but it is a bad idea for a star wars movie.
>it is a bad idea for a star wars movie
It was the only Star Wars that wasn't the same simple flick we have all seen before.
so empire was the same as a new hope? and revenge of the sith was the same as return of the jedi?
the only star wars that was 'the same simple flick we have all seen before' is the force awakens.
>three act structure movies are the same
Why yes anon. Last Jedi has 5 acts, it's different which is why the majority of the fanbase could not deal with it.
i dont think sharing the same number of acts constitutes two movies being 'the same'.
In terms of depth those movies and their performances are all shallow as a puddle compared to Last Jedi. These same people who couldn't deal with Last Jedi think Mandalorian is amazing and it's dogshit.
i think franchise film making is fundamentally different to regular filmmaking. you have to serve the audience and meet their expectations in some was while staying tethered to the established univers. I dont think this type of movie making lends itself well to more creative writers or directors that have original or out there ideas. i think thats why there is a negative reaction to last jedi, it tries to do original things but conflicts with the established universe when it does. mandolorian is grade a goyslop, but it fits into the established universe better.
>In terms of depth those movies and their performances are all shallow as a puddle compared to Last Jedi
agree to disagree on that one
You can disagree but the acting in Last Jedi is such a step up from anything in the other movies.
We've seen this narrative deconstruction in a Star Wars entry before (KOTOR 2), albeit it was executed far better there than in TLJ.
KOTOR 2 was a mess, far worse than whatever you think TLJ is guilty of. And you have no idea what the word "deconstruction" means (neither does the guy you replied to). Go read Derrida.
In a feminized society, I agree. Women are psychologically incapable of understanding sacrifice, suffering and change
Her manner and facial expressions were totally unbelievable for somebody in mortal danger fighting for her life. She acted like she just found her iphone under the couch. It was truly terrible direction.
You can't follow a children's movie. The OP is not during a battle, during the falcon chase her face was clearly stressed a bit.
>Luke is considering submitting his application to the academy
Guess that means he can just fly a spaceship?
Yes
No it was perfectly fine. Anyone mad at this is a beta.
>Anyone mad at this is a beta.
so the majority of star wars fans.
>so the majority of star wars fans.
You catch on pretty quick
Forehead.
Upset she doesn't have some Black person or Hispanic forehead?
She has a sloped israelite forehead instead
>sloped israelite forehead
You're either a israelite yourself or just a b***h
Nope, I'm not a israelite like the israelite you're posting
It would've been funny if she just turned off the alarm and they crashed after
versimilitude is a personal opinion
>versimilitude
why are incels so obsessed with this word?
>could easily write a Force-based magic excuse as for why she can learn something superfast
>instead just make it a natural trait
This is the core issue of shitty character writing in premises with magic.
If you need your character to do something stupidly implausible you already have a narrative solution in the form of supernatural powers. Just fricking use that?
The wizards & mind magic are explained in-universe. The space furries are alien species that have evolved to look like that.
That is the in-universe explannation for Rey understanfing Solo's ship better than him?
No, because all she did was take out a faulty unnecessary part. People who complain about that scene haven't actually followed the dialog or can string together the fact that the Falcon was her step dad's broken down truck that she grew up in/around.
With how it is written, yeah.
Not in the reality of the film, no. It's not a serious universe.
But they could have made it a bit better. Why not have her tinker with the scrap she found and create and sell custom-made thingies that replaces the standard stuff?
It would show that she was smart, but limited by her surroundings. She opens up her bag and goes "wait, I've got something for this... Ah, a super-powered magnetic counter-fuel injector! Made it myself, lifetime guarantee, plugs right in."
And then she installs it.
That would require writing chops that the assembly line do not have or care to exercise
There's many reasons why this scene makes sense. First of all, it's entirely possible she ripped out a controller for the primary compressor, severing its connection to the Falcon. The Falcon then "sees" this loss of signal from the controller, and activates the secondary system. We have secondary and tertiary redundant systems in aircraft, why would they not in a spaceship?'
Considering Han mentions electrical overload, it is likely that the primary compressor has a short resulting in a massive current draw, overloading the Falcon's electrical systems. The fastest way to disable said compressor (aftermarket add-on, assuming no dedicated wienerpit control) would be to either severe its connections at the site of the compressor, or remove the controller, preventing the rest of the system from interacting with the compressor. Ideally Rey would have known what circuit the compressor was on and pulled the breaker out, but she didn't. It seems she did happen to know where the controller for the compressor was mounted though, not impossible that she observed the installation of the component while under the care of unkar plutt, she probably held the dude's flashlight while he put it in, remember "this ship hasn't flown in YEARS" so the work was likely done when she was still young, plus, her being aware of the mod in the first place implies she was there when it was put in.
In other words, this was a perfect scene.
They don't know any of that because they got triggered by a modestly dressed independent woman
An actual answer which proves Star Wars fans don't even have a tiny bit of critical thinking skills. Based Rey.
>probably, maybe, likely, could have, theoretically, technically blah blah blah
just show it in the movie instead of making fans come up with these convoluted theories
They did show it in the movie, you're the one who want's Nolan exposition to explain a two second joke and computer fix.
Proof fans have even worse ideas than the movies they hate.
The classic. This will never be refuted.
>Nonsequitur hyperbole is an epic own
yes.
samecel
It's not that it's unbelievable, it's that she's just good at literally everything with SEEMINGLY no effort that we witness at all. There's no growth for her as a character, she's just better than everyone because she is.
>good at everything
>crashes the falcon into the ground immediately
>dies later on in the last movie
beats kylo ren or what ever the frick his name is in a laser sword fight when kylo ren has trained his entire life and she is a bum on a desert planet.
it really is about the heros journey, its not just how "plausible" it is that she could just be the best at everything.
you could make a "believable" charector that is amazing at everything she does, that doesn't make it satisfying, people like to watch people struggle and then over come that struggle, not just automatically be good at everything.
>gets slammed into a tree and needs to be protected by a nig
Anon, you know damn well Kylo Ren had a gut shot and just killed his father too. He also didn't want to kill the white woman just the blackie. It's not rocket science, you just don't like that she won a fight. The final time they fight Kylo beats her too and only doesn't kill her because he senses his mother dying and freezes.
its not about how believable it is, its about how satisfying it is. as i have already stated.
knowing that the films are going to be a trilogy, it would have been more satisfying for him to beat them and for like a ship to come out and bombard him with fire which is why they barely escape or some shit.
kylo ren was hyped up as a guy so good with teh force he can do force powers previously unseen and has a fancy lightsaber and then you get not only the unsatisfying element of him being somewhat easily beaten by rey, but also the choreography is absolute dog shit.
>it would have been more satisfying for the most cliche thing to happen
No, it really would not have been. The entire point of the trilogy is that Kylo isn't a big bad to defeat. Rey and Ben parallel Padme and Anakin in ways, except of course Rey is a force user Jedi. It's all about their drama.
i said "more satisfying" not "super duper satisfying"
to set up a guy who is super skilled, who has trained his whole life, first by luke skywalker then a sith lord, only to have them beaten by a bum who is just good at everything while living alone on a desert planet, is fricking moronic and not satisfying.
its like if you were a black belt in bjj and then a white belt comes in and beats your ass and they had no prior training, even if it literally happened and so there for its "realistic", you would still feel slighted or cheated, it would feel wrong, because you trained for like ten years and this guy comes in and just fricks you up. its just applying that logic to a story. stories aren't just vaccuous ideas of "subverting expectations" or creating conflict and tension without a context, they exist in a greater context of real life.
Kylo should utterly obliterate her with no questions asked or any ambiguity to it. He should've taken on the whole lot of them and come out of it uninjured. Then he can go off and struggle with his hubris or whatever, I don't care, he's not the focus of the story; she is (supposed to be). And for her story to make sense, she needs to be crushed, realize that she needs to improve herself to be able to take on the world, and to then go on to do that. And then she beats him up in the last one. Narrative structure 101.
with it introducing him as having previously unseen powers, and with the fact that we are getting to the 7-9th star wars movie, she shouldn't even beat him at the end, she should convince him to join her and he beats the big bad guy, or his own power level destroys him like an unstable nuclear reactor.
>Narrative structure 101.
Cliche structure 101. You're a borefest and admit you wanted them to shoot a fish in a barrel narratively. Nothing interesting about that.
it is shocking that anyone could think her beating kylo in that scene made sense narratively. it turned HIM into the protagonist, and so I don't think it's coincidence he's the only character in the films that anyone sympathized with (even though he's an unhinged, cringy, pathetic psycho)
it's so incompetently done that I have to assume it's deliberate. they know how to write a good narrative and then choose to do the opposite of it, presumably because of the same mental contagion that makes them think that obese people are healthy. they're in backwards land.
i've been thinking for a while now that they are intentionally making shitty art in order to demoralize the populace.
it lowers the standards expected in art and makes it easier to make art because people are desperate for something that is just not absolutely shitty.
take game of thrones, because they made the ending so absolutely terrible, they can remake game of thrones when/if jrr martin finishes the series and "get it done right this time"
also, people have been distanced from religion, so they give their piety towards great stories instead, so if you make those stories shitty as well, then they become even more demoralized and docile and hedonistic and controllable.
Agree hard with this. If they had balls they should have done a heel turn in the second movie. Snoke uses Kylo to capture Rey, he says shes more powerful than he'll ever be and takes her as his apprentice after beating up and leaving Kylo for dead. Kylo is rescures by the resistance and becomes the good guy protag for the last movie, redeems Rey and they kill Snoke together.
You guys are so triggered you don't understand the scene at all. Kylo is injured and emotional in the moment, projecting at Rey she needs a teacher and offering to be her guide because he needs those things desperately. He thinks by mentoring her it will fill the void he has by not having a proper father. That's why he doesn't try to kill her, that and their force dyad/romantic feelings bind them.
She also spends the majority of the fight running away like a scared girl. It's a repeat of the scene where she ran from him in the woods, only this time it ends with her victory using the force instead of her defeat and capture.
How the frick did so many grown men lose the plot on a kids movie, it blows my mind.
Nailed it. It really fricking amazing how the internet is full of these morons who cannot comprehend this.
I think a lot of them were just in an identity crisis and got coached to act like morons. It's actually a really gross thing that the hater youtube channels did. The responsible and good thing to do would be to explain the scenes to the people and reassure them its ok to be straight young white men and the sequel trilogy is about freshening up a classic story, not tearing down white people. I mean hell the only romance that pans out is between a white couple, and the white male ends up being the hero of the story. The death of star wars put as much blood on the hands of hater commentators gaslighting for profit as it did hollywood.
Youtube truly destroyed film criticism, especially for blockbusters like Star Wars. It's maddening how many dipshits repeat the same shitty talking points they watch in those videos.
>It's maddening how many dipshits repeat the same shitty talking points they watch in those videos.
I agree I find the lack of intellectual curiosity confusing and irritating. I can completely understand people having trouble and am patient to help them along, but people who are happy not to know and enjoy their ignorance are just terrible. It's really changed my perception of history imagining how people like this must have existed in large numbers at other cultural crisis points.
Oh ok thx
>It's really changed my perception of history imagining how people like this must have existed in large numbers at other cultural crisis points.
Very interesting to think about
she dies? I missed that part
I think a lot of fanboys on youtube missed that part.
it was more of an unspoken unanimous decision, after we stopped giving a frick about nuWars anymore
Unironically, death is actually what completes the Mary Sue archetype, which Rey does in spades. Sure, she's resurrected a few minutes later, but the point still remains.
when I saw TFA I didn't laugh at the
>I bypassed the compressor
joke right away while the whole theater was dying. I finally got the joke like 20 seconds later and laughed and the people in front of me looked backed like I was a moron
I felt like such a fool
Yes. Knowing what parts are worth scavenging doesn't automatically mean you know how to diagnose and repair issues with whatever systems they were a part of. That definitely pales in comparison to "woman from Desert Shithole Planet #2 is an expert watercraft pilot without any practice" though. Even Luke was established to have some experience piloting similar ships to the x-wing in A New Hope, before you pull the "B-B-But Luke blew up the Death Star in his first movie!" cop-out.
The original star wars was just some fatass israelite's self insert kurosawa fan fiction so youre automatically a homosexual for liking anything star wars related
are you talking about Savage Opress as realized by Katie Lucas?
What did the compressor compress? Did the Millenium Falcon have a fricking turbo? Did it need to have an intercooler?
The bigger problem is why the hacks at Disney didn't go with a long story arc that sees Rey go from diamond in the rough to a worthy heiress to the empire. Show her developing her power slowly, learning that she is the lost granddaughter of Palpatine, learning to serve her subjects and gaining a strong cult following from disgruntled citizens and soldiers. As her legend and following grows, her rivals being to make attempts on her and her followers lives. As she learns more of the dark side ways she discovers how to take life from one living thing and give it to another. Then how to do that to many more than just one living or dying thing. At this point, some very powerful challenges to her usurpation are being made, her retinue is slain in front of her and she is arrested by old guard imperial troops. Here we see her first demonstration of God like power. She pulls on the life forces of the arresting troops until it seems time itself has stopped and commands her slain soldiers to return to life "for there is much still to do." Their wounds heal and they begin to stir, then stand up as the arresting troops slump and wither in real time. To the horrified onlookers there is now no question of her lineage, nor of her power. Yadda, yadda, yadda.
But we got a "loser men write girl power fantasy," instead.
Loser male post
Your franchise could get its reputation back if you actually worked on the stories instead of use it as a vehicle for revenge on the big, bad, mean men in your life.
See
The only thing with the bad reputation is Star Wars fans, who are notoriously so bad even Lucas said "yeah frick you gays you're dumb as shit"
Star Wars is bigger than ever. Seek help, schizo.
How the frick can a compressor of any kind be bypassed at all? Aren't they absolutely essential for a working engine?!
Rey is a failed character. The fan base despises her and the casual fans don’t care about her.
She’s awful
You are gatekeeping exactly the same way OTgays cried about the prequels. Rey is such a wholesome character it's actually downright sad and stupid the amount of hate she gets.
Gr8 b8 m8 she's a Bella Swan.
Seriously. I ask 100 people to list a thing about Rey and they either don't remember, have nothing to say, or contradict each other.
Why? Because Rey as a character has no flaws written into her. I mean, sure, she's a fricking sociopath who doesn't give a shit if her "friends" die but that's never actually expounded on, and emerges solely because she, as a character, can never be shown subservient or scared.
She's boring. I've seen her a billion times before. Bella Swan has more going on under the hood, at least Bella, occasionally, has thoughts.
You're a fricking moron.
Redditor
Yes.
Challenge for the two of you: list Rey's flaws and how they directly hurt her in the narrative. Additionally, list every time Luke failed, every time Anakin failed, and every time Rey failed. Notice that the lattermost list is much, much smaller than the former two - if it even exists at all. Understand that Mary Sue means a character doesn't fail, it's not that Rey has sparkly heterochromatic eyes or a ridiculous name, it's that she arbitrarily has the powers she needs to succeed at any point. If she needs to fix the Falcon, she can do it, leaving Han Solo mouth agape. If she needs the Force, she can use it, despite not even knowing it existed the day before, and not receiving even the most rudimentary training. Ditto with lightsaber fighting, swimming, negotiating complex political structures, orchestrating plans for a rebellion...
There isn't a single scene where Rey explicitly fails at anything. She leaves every scenario the victor, either from random powers she gains or random intercessions from people who shouldn't do it. Everyone loves Rey. There isn't a single character who hates her, even the villains are weirdly smitten with her. Unlike Luke, there isn't even a connection. Vader cared about Luke because Luke was his son. Kylo cares about Rey because ???
Because Kylo is a shallow ripoff of Vader and the connection to the protagonist was ported over void of context.
>me and my fellow discord incels hate Rey and circlejerk with each other about how much we hate her, so clearly the character has nothing!
have you ever spoken with a real person on this subject
Daisy Ridley actually seems like a truly great person, and it pains me to say this but…..Rey Palpatine is an absolute nightmare of a character. It’s not her fault but the fault of JJ Abrams, Kennedy, the Story Group, and Rian Johnson.
The truth is they basically stole Luke’s story note for note but did it in the most inane, soulless, convoluted way possible. Nobody wants Luke diminished or marginalized and his accomplishments stolen. And nobody wants to watch a bland corporate version of the OT. What fans wanted was a proper conclusion to the Skywalker Saga and the introduction of an interesting new lead (with her own unique story and flaws) and we got NEITHER
Rey is a good character and virgins taking a poll will never be representative of real life. Of course most of these virgins think Mando is some great character or Grogu.
I would bet 90+% of those people weren’t virgins.
But you posted hundreds of times on hundreds threads over the years the same ad hominems over and over again. It’s all so tiresome. Rey failed as a character because they never let her be her own thing. She never felt authentic (except at the beginning of TFA). And so long as they intend to keep her as a fugazi Corporate Luke, she’ll never win over the fans. Never.
You literally just hate her because she is a woman.
Nope. I like women more than men. I love Leia. There are plenty of male characters in Star Wars that I dislike
So you like the character who had virtually no character arc in empire strikes back and return of the jedi because she wore a bikini? Did you like the fact that Leia was given more to do and think about in the sequels?
Jesus, you need help.
Yeah Rey had more of a character arc in the sequels than Leia did in the originals.
Leia was a side character, mostly static. Her arc was falling in love with Han Solo, who had far more of an arc than she did (going from scoundrel to hero). At most you can say Leia matured a bit and got more caring.
Rey... didn't have an arc. Really. You can maybe say she changed her name but that's really it. She just walked in and immediately got love and affirmation. I GUESS people were trying to go with her trying to find her identity, but she never struggled with it. A loss of identity never happened. A complaint of feeling insecure never happened. She was never put in a position where she was manipulated over it. She just sort of took the Skywalker name at the end of the trilogy and that was maybe it. That only seemed an issue to her in the third film
1: I gotta find my parents (for 20 minutes, never spoken of again)
2: ??? Rey had no arc in Last Jedi. I guess she cried for 5 minutes when her parents were said to be nobody but she got better and it never bothered her again
3: I'm a Skywalker.
The fact is, the most static side character (barring C3PO and R2D2) in the OT had arguably more of an arc than the main protagonist of the Disney movies.
Reddit post and you gloss over everything you can in the process to affirm your headcanon.
Finn has more of an arc in The Last Jedi than Han does, he does jack shit in Return of the Jedi
Finn's arc reversed twice. In TFA he was a coward who couldn't fight, which made him get kicked out by the FO, who he then gleefully killed because he's a good guy and they're bad guys. So I guess he found courage.
In Last Jedi he just reverts to being a coward again and finds courage again before Asian woman driving ruins his moment and the kiss that sank the film in China happens.
I didn't watch Rise of Skywalker but wasn't he playing ooga booga simp to some girl riding a horse?
I dunno. Finn as a character is a buckbroken simp who does nothing but desperately try and please women of a different race than he. He has no unique skills, he's inferior to everyone at everything, and he only knows pertinent information when he overhears his massa while he sweeps the floor.
Absolutely mogged on character. We went from Mace Windu to this and apparently it's a step forward.
Leia went from being incredibly mean, cold, arrogant, and untrusting to being soft and loving. Her love for Luke and Han is authentic and in a way fixed her lack of trust in people. That’s an arc.
Rey has no arc. She never changes.
>never changes
>falls in love with a space nazi and saves his life and gets him to turn to the light, also dies
>falling in love
Falling in love isn’t “changing.” She acts the same no matter what’s happening to her.
>gets him to turn
Leia and Han did that
>she acts the same
>stabs Ben with a deathshot
Again, the only time Leia actually has some character development is funnily enough in the sequel trilogy.
>Rey goes from a self-sabotaging insecure little girl constantly looking for validation from parental figures to a heroic jedi who realizes that actualization comes from within
>B-B-BUT THAT'S NOT AN ARC BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL AND I CAN'T HANDLE HER BEATING UP KYLO NOOOOO
Finn flat-out says during TFA's climax that he's not there for the Resistance, he doesn't give a shit about the larger war. He just wants to save his friend. So in the beginning of TLJ, he tries to abandon the Resistance to save Rey. After going to Cantobite he sees the cost of neutrality and allowing evil to flourish, so he decides to take a stand with the Resistance.
The arc makes sense, it's just that fanboys (and the Black person Boyega, apparently) thought Finn was going to be the lead Jedi and pipe Rey, then got mad when their headcanon didn't pan out
>So in the beginning of TLJ, he tries to abandon the Resistance to save Rey
You were subtle anon but he goes to the casino planet as part of Poe's plan to stop the first order hyperspace tracking, it has nothing to do with Rey. But good we can now see you are willing to outright lie and misinterpret the films.
Rey also NEVER self-sabotages or seems insecure about anything. I don't recall a single line of dialogue where she seems unsure. I guess her refusing the lightsaber in TFA for all of five minutes but that seemed more like she didn't want to, not she didn't feel able to.
>Guys she just got a Zenkai boost despite such things being never explained until two movies afterwards as a bandage
Also, wouldn't a trained Sith be able to stop that sort of shit anyway? It's just some random bullshit made afterwards to explain why she's a Mary Sue, and you fell for it.
>Rey also NEVER self-sabotages or seems insecure about anything.
She is constantly trying to get back to Jakku despite the clear call to adventure, even though deep down she has greater ambitions. She's just too afraid of stepping out of her own comfort zone because she was abandoned by her parents. You also pointed out the part where she runs away from the lightsaber but then said it didn't count...just cuz?
It's the prequels' fault. No one in the prequels ever talks about anything except the immediate plot and whenever anyone expresses their feelings it's always in a toddler-esque THAT MAKES ME FEEL ANGRY monologue
If Anakin didn't say "from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" prequelzoomers would not understand that Anakin does not like the Jedi
>She is constantly trying to get back to Jakku despite the clear call to adventure, even though deep down she has greater ambitions. She's just too afraid of stepping out of her own comfort zone because she was abandoned by her parents.
LOL
No, because they had almost no knowledge of it. Sidious barely knew about it. Kylo felt the connection but had no idea what it was. The only reason you think it was invented later is because you weren't paying attention.
It was planned moron, that's what he was referring to when he said "I know, I feel it too"
kek no wonder they are virgins. Imagine needing a woman to actually lay it out to you that she likes you.
>It was planned moron
Look man even JJ is confirming it at this point. Not even shills are keeping up the facade that the ST was planned out.
nothing in star wars has ever been planned out, it's only the sequels where this became an issue because the current fanbase wasn't alive when the OT came out and they were toddlers when the prequels were releasing. The ST was the first time a lot of Star Wars fans had to accept that Star Wars is just a series of movies made by real people on a case by case basis rather than completed holy writ revealed from on high to the prophet George (PBUH) and they can't accept the retcons and inconsistencies that are inevitable in any long-running franchise
Deflecting to saying the OT did t do it either is not a defense. In fact it's a really odd tactic to defend the ST by just saying but the OT was bad too.
>acknowledging that Star Wars is not real is the same thing as saying the OT is bad
typical manchild logic lmao
Now your moving goal posts anon. I'll refresh you the conversation went like this.
>the ST was not planned
>but the OT was not planned
>ok but that isn't a defense of the ST not being planned
The MCU has rotted your brain and you think that movies are planned out decades in advance, or that's how they should be made lmao
Oh now we are moving to "ok they weren't but that's a good thing actually". Which kinda goes against what you ariginally said that the dyad was planned tge entire time. So which is it anon, did they plan that the entire time and not mention it until later films or not?
>ok they weren't but that's a good thing actually
Yes, because a lot of good things about Star Wars wouldn't exist if they autistically stuck to a "plan". Should George have not made Darth Vader and Anakin the same person because that wasn't part of his original "plan"?
>Which kinda goes against what you ariginally said that the dyad was planned tge entire time. So which is it anon, did they plan that the entire time and not mention it until later films or not?
What the frick are you talking about? Have you considered you are arguing with multiple people?
>What the frick are you talking about?
Well anon if you had bothered to just check the reply chain you will notice I never said not planning was bad, simply that it wasn't planned as someone claimed it was. As you said, it not being planned isn't the problem right?
The OT wasn't planned wholly. There are contradictions within the OT, for instance, Darth Vader killing Anakin was a literal thing until the second draft of Empire. The Emperor is only alluded to as a political figure.
The PT doesn't contradict ITSELF but it does contradict the OT. in minor ways. For instance, Jedi robes. If Ben Kenobi was in hiding, why was he wearing a Jedi uniform?
The difference is that, at least with the OT and PT, they at least TRIED to make shit consistent. With the Disney movies, it was JJ and Jonson having a slapfight over whether to glorify or denigrate nostalgia and the result was a wholly confused mess.
But this
guy is right. The most stock defense of the Disney movies is pants-shitting and talking about the OT. It's happened a ton of times. "WHAT ABOUT LUKE DOING XYZ". homosexual, we're shitting on the Disney movies. It's not that the OT gets a pass for the frickup, it's that we're not discussing the OT right now.
>It's not that the OT gets a pass for the frickup, it's that we're not discussing the OT right now.
lmao what a pathetic excuse
>i..in this discussion you're just nor allowed to point out my hypocrisy!!
I don't know the OT seems pretty consistent even with it. Main thing was that it is obvious Leia wasn't always planned as Luke's sister.
George was planning the sequel before star wars was even released.
no, incel, he did not.
HE was planning one didn't say he wrote one. dilate george hater. lmao imagine being obsessed with darth vaders and death stars for 40 years but then try and discredit Georgie's writing skills Funny man, really funny.
George had lots and lots of help. He is unquestionably the core ideas guy but he needs to have his autism kept in check
>believing in saved in the edit
also you guys are specifically attacking his wrinting. Dude spent 5 years brainstorming ideas like anakin stakiller, cos da shit. That will eventually be developed into the full fledged star wars universe. Also he's not an ideas guy he is a great director in his own right. He was given a ticket to make whatever he wanted after he directed the ground breaking hit movie american graffitti. George wasn't a fluke star wars is his second hit. He Also saw the power of 3d cgi filmmaking in 1977 he was one of the first investors into pixar. Just calling him an ideas guy is a disservice. He is a brilliant filmmaker all around. They didn't invest in star wars. They invested in George, they gave goerge the ability to make whatever he wanted. he spent 5 years coming up with star wars, invested out of his own pocket into ILM because the fox FX division was going bankrupt. Dude was a visionary and did everything in his power to make his reality come to the screen. Frick off with your ideas guy bullshit. How did they exactly reign George in during the OT? Cutting out a 3 minute scene where Luke meets Biggs? Give me a break. Dude worked himsefllf into severe strress overseeing basically every corner of production from the effects, directing, writing, editing, music, the art. This homie had his hand in deep in this movie.
Then you guys go and compare Jar Jar abrams who made a lazy fricking rehash of a new hope destroying George' s vision for a goddamn new hope remake with the scenes moved around. Dude was rewriting well into filmaking because he scrapped the sequel treatment to "take star wars to it's roots" since he's a dumbass OT fanboy. George already brainstormed dozens of ideas for 5 years before he started directing and you imbeciles just say "he's an ideas guy who got lucky and made it up as he went" fricking lol dude. The fact you ;people are obssessed with ideas that are 100% george's and shit on him so much. Sad really
meant for
imagine believing this bullshit
>george had nothing to do with star wars
how much levels of rlmlet cope do you have to be on.
not gonna read your blog post, chudcel
Lucas had very little input into the OT. More talented people created most of it and threw out his garabage ideas (he always wanted it to be about microorganisms lmao). He mostly just came up with names and toys. I think he created a single shot in ESB.
The reason why the PT is such soulless trash is because Lucas had free reign with his shit ideas.
>More talented people created most of it and threw out his garabage ideas
Hilarious since most of tge cut scenes from the original films were the ones his wife wanted and he hated, but hey saved in the edit am I right?
Yes, his wife saved SW in editing.
By doing what exactly? Cutting all those bad scenes Lucas didn't want in the film, so much so no special edition added them in?
The dyad was planned, the thing about Snoke's origin was not. Apples and oranges. Rey and Kylo are based off the Solo twins from the EU books and it plays off how twins have a strong force connection like Luke and Leia.
Sidious didn't make it happen he was surprised it happened. And it isn't something you can put onto someone, it's a connection between souls that happens spontaneously at birth. They both have the same original progenitor Sidious so that's probably the force doing weird things because its fruit of the same tree.
I think its naive to think they weren't going to bring him back, whether as the final boss in that exact way I don't know. I think it was always known Rey was connected to Palps. Rian only threw that shit in out of sabotage because he doesn't like SW fans or their obsession with bloodlines and hero worship.
If it was planned, someone would've said something before 9. Kylo remarking it was strange that an untrained girl could even resist him in any confrontation. Snoke musing on an unusual connection with Kylo, or something sapping his strength. Hux asking why Kylo's so attached to Rey. Not them turning to the camera and spelling out the power, just some acknowledgement at all that something was amiss. There was no remark of anything being out-of-place. It didn't exist until nine as a lazy way to explain Rey being strong, atop a heap of other lazy ways like making her a Palpatine.
JJ Abrams is a lying shitstain and he said all sorts of nonsense to justify his product. Remember all the interviews before IX dropped talking about how gay they'd make it?
The ST was in no way planned. It was just dumb idea followed by dumb idea and then the credits rolled. It was a disaster
IF it was planned. It wasn't planned. I'm saying, in the hypothetical it WAS planned, THEN this would've happened. But BECAUSE this didn't happen, ERGO it wasn't planned. The dyad wasn't planned because there was no foreshadowing at all. Rey was just an arbitrarily strong Sue. The dyad and Rey Palpatine were JJ trying to patch a hole and explain away Rey's strength.
In terms of scale, Rey is the second worst Mary Sue I've ever seen. She's just beneath Empress Theresa. The difference is Rey was the product of a multibillion dollar deal and the writers should've known better.
"you're strong you resist me" =/= anything. It could've meant anything. Leia also was able to resist interrogation and that was just from being tough. Vader noted that Luke was strong in the Force. A single line that could literally mean something as nebulous as "she is somewhat strong in the Force" doesn't explain anything. If it was a real thing, there would've been some sort of question, a note that something was out of place or odd. "you resist me" is like breathing in Star Wars.
>muh whataboutism is being ignored
lmao homosexual. Fat redditor. Cuck. Probably a samegay with
spamming Cinemaphile pass to defend a bad movie made 8 years ago that's basically been forgotten.
the entire Disney Star Wars brand has as much staying power as Avatar Way of Wojak. It's empty. It says and means and is nothing. Spaceballs had more to say and said it infinitely better. People still talk about the Prequels and OT to this day but outside of here I don't hear jack about the Sequels aside from autists shitting on it out of spite.
You can fricking tell when someone's a cuck when they use insults like "incel" or "chud" instead of the more traditional "homosexual" or "moron". The guy defending the ST has only used Twitter commie insults. Either a woman, which is doubtful, or a low T gay trying to white knight for m'lady.
>a bad movie made 8 years ago that's basically been forgotten.
Doesn't seem forgotten to me, you incels are still writing essays seething and crying about how it ruined your life lmao
im pissing and shitting and jacking off and your malding tears are perfect lube. if you think im serious your more moronic than the neckbeards who are genuinely arguing over this shit like you can learn anything
I didn't say anything about she resisted him. I referred to when they mentally clicked and they both seemed surprised, and he said I know, I feel it too. That's referring to their force connection.
when did that even happen i dont even remember it i think youre making shit up.
its so common for sequel defenders to start talking about shit that didnt happen because theyre really defending the movie they made up in their head which is why they get so fricking angry when people dont like it. its the closest they ever came to making anything or getting laid
I wish people actually watched the movies they complain about. 2:18 btw
oh wow that really proves theyre linked or some shit and its not just some dialogue trying to make him either a sexyman or manipulative. its not like people with the force could feel other peoples feelings like when yoda collapsed in revenge of the sith or when ben felt aldeeran explode it must be something new and different
youre making shit up to justify shit in a later movie because you want rey to be a girlboss and shes just another captain marvel bella swan mulan empress theresa whatever the frick her name is in discovery lt ensign mary sue
wow, calm down incel. those children movies are getting you really worked up, don't they, sweatie? did you forget to take your meds?
you need to take your meds as well, clearly you are suffering from terrible delusions
redditor talk. insults like 'kid' 'sweatie' and incel. youre not even arguing anymore youre just spamming incel. homosexual cuck. youre also getting mad at kids movies.
worst romance of all star wars in that case. genuinely worse than anakin and padme or lando calrissian and six homosexuals in a dumpster that will come out in 2032 with the new reboot. worse than twilight. worse than 50 shades of gay
You got filtered, Reylo is awesome. Did more to make women wet for white men then you ever will.
All women (except maybe some black women) are wet for White men. Indians, Latinas, Asians, etc are desperate for white men
Then why have you never had sex?
I’ve fricked at least 10 Asians. No Indians. I’ve fooled around with a couple Latina chicks in college. Got a blowjob in a phone booth from a Peruvian girl in Alphabet City
Please take your meds sweatie, your delusions are running wild again.
The fact that you see everyday things like getting married, or buying a home, as complex difficult to achieve things speaks volumes about YOU, not me.
You can try and write it off if you want but its obvious they wanted the two to be romantically and spiritually connected.
It's right there in the interrogation scene. You know you're watching a movie and not listening to a podcast right?
I don't care about trying to track meta opinions that can't be verified one way or another, that's just your speculation
>that's just your speculation
Anon you cam literally look at interviews he made before the backlash where he says things like "I wish I had made it" and similar praise.
>Rian only threw that shit in out of sabotage
If that was the case JJ would not have done nothing but praise TLJ until the backlash hit. It's clear he was on board until it became less profitable to do so.
Rian didn't sabotage shit. JJ abrams was involved in the script of last jedi.
Next you'll say Palpatine was always planned as the main antagonist or always planned as Reys grandfather.
>He thinks that anything in the sequel trilogy was actually planned
Next you'll say that Darth Vader was always Luke's father, or that Leia was always his sister, or that C3P0 was always built by Anakin as a child, or that Chewie and Yoda always fought together in the clone wars.
Nice whataboutism, gay.
>b-but tge OT and PT
Literally only defense.
Sexists and or virgins, a very big part of the Star Wars manchild fanbase.
Rey isn't a corporate Luke. She's a Mary Sue of the same brand of Captain Marvel. A Disney "girl boss"
If she were a Luke she'd be some kind of naive character, and I mean that she would be able to fail. She's not a character insomuch as she's a narrative black hole.
I guess fat redditors are pissed that people hate a female character, but man, women deserve better than to be represented by boring, conceited, ugly, sociopathic hunks of wood. It makes people think women are just terrible for telling stories with. Would you tell a story with a woman in it, if you needed to follow the Disney mold? No.
if there are two suns, why isn't the planet really hot?
>it's a desert planet
yes, but we have deserts on Earth (single sun).
Rise of Skywalker's binary sunset sucks ass but The Last Jedi's is kino
Unbelievable? Not really
Lazy? Very
>Lazy? Very
Not at all if you simply follow the kid's movie.
>It's for kids, so it doesn't need to make sense
It makes sense to anyone with a halfway decent brain
Spoken like some marvelgay
>like some marvelgay
Are we now going to pretend that this film doesn't share a massive amount of MCU DNA?
No, it shares more in common with Star Wars and shitty Star Wars humor and Star Wars themes than anything. And if you even just go by technical merits, the effects and SFX are nothing like Marvel since they aren't shit.
>and shitty Star Wars humor
Nah, not really
>and Star Wars themes
I guess, since it was just recycling a load of ANH beats to mollify ageing neckbeards, sure
I don't really get what that's got to do with the point of the 'bypassed the compressor' thing being lazy screenwriting
>joke equals lazy screenwriting when it was actually set up
>joke equals lazy screenwriting
Yeah. Why would that exempt it from being lazy?
>when it was actually set up
Of course it was set up, how do you have a joke without setting it up? Literally all you're saying is >how is it a problem if they put it in the script?
Not the joke being set up you idiot, Rey being a half decent mechanic and having worked on the falcon previously. You can't follow a kid's movie.
>and having worked on the falcon previously.
>previously
For all of 5 minutes, yeah
>luke trains for like 30 seconds with a floating droid in the original star wars
Lol
Yeah, and what's he able to accomplish as a result of it? He has to be bailed out at the end of the movie by a ghost
That's a funny way to spell "it makes sense if you turn your brain off."
except it makes sense if you just watch the movie and follow along
>follow the kid's movie.
IDK mate, but I think kids probably deserve better. You raise them on this, they're all going to grow up to have shit taste
I want to discumbumbulate her ass
for real, though
I like her cute teeth. Her big goofy grin is adorable.
Thank bby
Rey failed. Just accept that Disney shills
this series is vastly overrated, i don't get the appeal
and i only watched original trilogy (de-specialized editions)
It's the insincerity of the scene that makes it hard to swallow
like they're making fun of the technobabble (which was more of a hallmark of Star Trek than Star Wars)
>insincerity
That's Star Wars "criticism" since 1999
The prequels were nothing if not sincere.
And guess what? Fans said they raped their childhood. So why believe what that same homosexual fanbase says today about the new trilogy? The star wars fands are insincere more than any of their movies.
Incels can't even decide why they hate the scene. They first learn that they have to hate it, then make up dumb reasons afterwards.
It’s not about believability it’s that a character that has no growth is boring to watch. Luke was a whining loser “boy” in ANH who could easily have had his ass kicked by almost anyone, even those nobodies in the bar on tattooine. He was basically just another tag-along insert for the everyday guy, his only real “power” was being able to make that lucky shot at the end and even then you could argue Obiwan assisted him with the force. Otherwise he was just kind of an annoying complaining whiny kid. Even Leia mocks him as being short relative to a storm trooper. If they made Rey like this at first it would have been more of a rip off but the character would seem to evolve more naturally. Imagine if she was just kind of a bimbo at first with no fighting ability hardly able to do anything hiding behind the men but slowly developed her powers over the three films. Would have been so much better. Also, try should have been played by Carrie fishers real daughter. The fact that they had her REAL daughter at the perfect age and could have cast her in this role but didn’t is so infuriating it’s unbelievable.
There's two samegays here desperately jacking off to Rey of all characters. No clue why. Leia's hotter. Hell, Padme's hotter. Guess they're black simps who think they're Finn, or male feminists trying to prove something on a Hungarian basket-weaving forum.
Rey is smoking hot just like Padme, sorry your entire personality is based around "hating new thing" and repeating the same talking points that are babbled all over youtube.
If you're into plain, flat, mouthbreathing brunettes with no emotion in their voice, you'll cum buckets to Kristen Stewart.
You could actually score IRL with some desperate ladies if you say you like Twilight but nobody's touching you because you're a Rey simp
>get called a chud
>double down
>Uses chud
>Babbles Twitter/Reddit talking points
Go back, newbie.
>no emotion in their voice
So you're autistic and can't detect emotion, makes sense.
>criticizes Rey for having no emotion in her voice
>unironically defends the prequels, where literally everyone except Sheev talks like a robot
Did you forget the part where he literally gets arrested for desertion because he steals the beacon from Leia and then tries to get on an escape pod? He only agrees to the Casino plan BECAUSE saving the fleet is the only way to ensure Rey doesn't come back to an ambush
You're the one who doesn't remember the movie he's so ass-blasted about, lmao
I said jack shit about the Prequels. All I said is that Natalie Portman is hotter than Daisy Ridley.
Okay guys and in your favorite show someone will pull a new ability out of nowhere with no foreshadowing or explanation and effortlessly win at everything forever. But in the last episode they'll call it "Writer's Pet Ability" and that makes it all better.
Unironic Reylo. b***hes into 50 Shades of Grey have a better ship lmao.
She's a sociopathic frickoff who gains arbitrary powers whenever. Everyone instantly loves her for reasons never explained. She attacks people violently if they say mean words to her. She can't control her impulses but is never punished for this. She breathes through her mouth and bulges her eyes out as a default expression, because she's probably snorting cocaine just off set.
She cared for five minutes and then was on for the ride. That was it. Her whole journey was discarded like when I get constipated, chug laxatives, and then a little while later eject the script of The Last Jedi out into my toilet.
Samegay, if Darth Sidious doesn't know shit about an ability in the Force, it's because the ability didn't exist until it was written in. You think he'd have done that shit to someone more useful, like say link Vader to Yoda, or maybe get a new Apprentice. If he knew about this shit, why would he be fricking with Luke in the OT? Couldn't he just get some rando who loved him and supercharge him with Anakin's juice?
Hell, there are even a couple points where characters that have no reason whatsoever to like her suddenly decide that they like her.
Nothing you wrote is correct. At all.
>Nuh-uh!
epic refutation my dude
Finn as a character is a pathetic cuck. The most frequent words past his lips is the name of some woman who he is wholly inferior to. White guys usually accept getting cast like this but I'm surprised that Finn was somehow accepted as not racist. After the movies he probably went on to pick cotton for Rey Palpatine Skywalker alongside Chewbacca and Lando Calrissian.
>Women are just not allowed to be good at things because that makes my feelings hurt for some reason
Nobody cares about your Phantom Misogyny. I have 0.0 problem with a female lead in Star Wars. But Rey just isn’t it. She doesn’t work as a character and she wouldn’t work as a character even if she was a male
>I don't have an actual rebuttal to any of your points, so I guess I'll fall back on the "le sexism" non-argument
It is sexism, so there's that.
The amount of people who don't recognize that Rey got a powerup when she siphoned knowledge/power from Kylo in the interrogation scene because of their force dyad never ceases to amaze me.
>it makes sense because of something set up on the next film which wasn't planned at the time
Ah yes
Too many Star Wars fans are fans of Nolan and thus need exposition to spell out every single thing verbatim or else it's "shitty writing"
Stop samegayging. Rise of Skywalker is trash and Rey is an awful character
Why didn't they just use a pop-off valve? Are they moronic?
Could Rey pass the Plinkett test?
At this point, Rey is likely the most despised character in the history of film. She’s the St Anger of film characters, a time capsule of a hilarious failure on behalf a a misguided corporate entity
No, incel, only in your tiny bubble of basement dwelling nazis
I’m married, lost my virginity at 16, live in huge house that I own, and am not a Nazi. But you have been sperging out and calling everyone who disagrees with you all kinds of names for this entire thread. You need to be on medication. Sincerely. I hope you get help. I can send you some money if you can’t afford a doctor
There's one or two redditors here genuinely malding over the fact that a character in a shitty bootleg movie is being shat on.
Based and true
No, incel, none of this is true. You will never be married and you will never have children.
I’m married bro, I have 4 kids. I’ve owned 2 homes, this one for the last five years. I’ve slept with quite a few women before I was married.
But the fact that you speak about any of that stuff like it’s hard it’s pretty revelatory about your own situation.
No, incel, this is all in your head.
homosexual you are defending with vitriol a terrible bootleg film about space samurai that doesn't even do space samurai right
frick your wife harder than youre fricking this homosexual.
I’ve been fricking women since I was 16. It’s not a hard thing to do. Not sure what your deal is. I have no reason to lie on an anonymous snail enthusiast forum. If anything saying shit like this gets me attacked in this thread.
You will never bed a woman.
Lol. I fricked my wife in the walk-in closet last night
What a terrible excuse. Why should magic mean writing is unnecessary? Dumbledore can't figure out voldesnort's horcrux magic and gets btfo by a simple curse. Gandalf struggles to open a dwarven door and is generally shat upon until being resurrected by god.
Yes, women and blacks being competent at science and engineering is less believable than space wizards dueling with laser swords.
my biggest gripe is how throughout the entire trilogy none of the characters really interact that much. Rey and the rest of the film feel like separate films. In the OT Luke was an active participant in the war. Rey kind of just does her own thing while there is a war going on in the background. They hardly ever link up and when they do it feels like it's a cameo appearance and you are just supposed to care because you should. Also JJ's mystery boxes, too many retcons, dropped plotpoints, things happening with no pay off or build up. 3 flicks and pull the emperor out of nowhere with no build up. Abandon previously established plotpoints like Finn becoming black jedi man. Next is how they completely shit on the OT, Vaders whole sacrifice and redemption rendered meaningless because somehow palpatine returned stronger than ever, Sky walker lineage dying out, and Rey being retconned into a palpatine to explain her mary sue levels. Hyper space ram rendering every space battle meaningless. Then the plotholes, like where was Lando and the civilian fleet when the first order were abducting slave soldiers and making a bigger death star., which is just one of many, I guess this can be grouped in with JJ's sloppy writing and mystery boxes. Then like the 4th or 5th worst thing about the sequels is how marey sue can fix han's ship within 5 seconds of getting on, get's consoled over han's death before chewie, seamingly knows more about the force than Luke without any training "easily overpowers him kek". Which isn't to say it's not a massive flaw. It really is. There is just so much wrong with these films. Watching attack of the clones after watching these rushed brand recognition cash grabs is like starring in the face of god. Yeah the prequels have their moments but at least it was semi-coherent vision that tried to push the story in new directions and gave us plenty of memorable scenes and characters in the process.
Her interactions with Luke were baffling and genuinely awful. Luke is literally the most powerful Jedi of all time. If he wanted to he could literally kill her with just a passing thought. Why would they think fans would like her if she attacked him from behind??
It’s almost like they thought of every idea that would make people hate Rey and jammed them into a bland corporate trilogy
>Why would they think fans would like her if she attacked him from behind??
>Rey is le mary sue and has no flaws!
>Why is Rey doing this bad thing? Don't they know people might not like her for it?
I am not mechanic, but wouldn’t bypassing a compressor be a bad thing?
George was given a ticket to make whatever he wanted after directing the hit american graffitti. spent 5 years writing the script for star wars creating the idea completely from scratch with a few influences from kurosawa and flash gordon. JJ was rewriting well into filming because he scrapped a 3 part sequel trilogy treatment so he can remake a new hope and live action roleplay as George Lucas in 1976, since he's a braindead OT fanboy, and it shows.
Barren xenomorph was a mistake
Daisy is ugly as hell
>when cos dashit is in the 1974 rough draft and georgie haters think this shit wasn't planned
hilarious
Pic rel is literally the only thing beyond OT anyone should give a frick about
thrawn sucks and timothy zahn hates the spirituality of Star Wars, he wants it to be some kind of starship troopers/poiltical thriller hybrid
> Spirituality in star wars
Top kek
Like it or not, but that's what the Force was before midichlorians came about.
>direct most profitable movie in the world at the time (American graffiti)
>fox writes you a blank cheque to come up with whatever the frick you want
>spend 5 years writing an epic space fantasy like nobody has ever scene before with influences from kurosawa, flash gordon and hero with a thousand faces
>tell ralph mcquerries to draw shit from your screenplay
>come up with hundreds of unique ideas that will eventually be developed into the fully fledged star wars universe
>spend money out of pocket to fund the FX team because Fox special effects department is bankrupt
>go out into the Tunisian desert to direct your masterpiece and bring you vision to the screen
>some butthurt incels who don't know anything about film production start ranting about how star wars was a fluke and George got lucky because he was surrounded by geniuises! (who he hired), but the director, writer, producer, who was given a golden ticket from fox to make whatever he wanted is basically just an ideas guy
>direct most profitable movie in the world at the time (American graffiti)
>fox writes you a blank cheque to come up with whatever the frick you want
Not what happened. He actually struggled to find a studio willing to fund his silly space opera idea.
Read his original script. Only some vague ideas made it into the finished product, which was created by professionaly rather than George Incel.
It's less to do with stretching the audience's suspension of disbelief and more to do with insulting their intelligence
Say what you will about Lucas but he never insulted his audience's intelligence
>he never insulted his audience's intelligence
Meesa disagree.