>In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case, it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment.
What was his fricking problem?
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>In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case, it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and ref...
Dune sucks, it's just a fact of life
He didn't like the morals and the idea of creating a messiah is a heretical believe.
He disliked how it subverted messianic tropes. Paul is basically a self absorbed villain who sees himself as a hero. It’s like LOTR if it were written from Sauron’s perspective and Sauron wins in the end.
I think it’s actually more like if Aragorn claimed the ring, actually overthrew Sauron, and proceeded to become the new Dark Lord and leading Gondor to wipe out the rest of Middle Earth for opposing him
he's a writer, he can probably look past the morals of a book and see its literary merit.
I've never read dune, after watching the Lynch movie I came to the conclusion I probably would not enjoy reading the book it was based on
He was an evil smoker piece of shit
>after watching the Lynch movie I came to the conclusion I probably would not enjoy reading the book it was based on
That's because he makes terrible movies
>an evil smoker
What's evil about smoking, moron?
>What's evil about polluting shared breathing air just for the sake of your own personal satisfaction
Being extremely selfish is regarded as evil in most moral frameworks.
You know getting cancer from second hand smoke is a myth, right?
Who the frick mentioned anything about cancer? But now that you mention it, doing extremely unhealthy things that will likely result in you needing medical attention later in life is also quite selfish.
This wouldn't be a problem for you if you weren't terminally autistic and knew how to maintain proper interpersonal distance from other people, smokers or not.
Actual autism lmao. This is like b***hing about barbequing and some homeless guy smells it and feels bad. Actual fricking autism.
What isn't evil about it?
>second hand smoke
Doesn't exist. There just is breathing smoke.
>There just is breathing smoke.
Woa! Easy with all the big science words, professor!
It's just the smoking schizo/troll.
He's usually just in Mad Men threads, telling everyone to kill themselves because they watch a show that has actors smoking fake herbal cigarettes in it. Interesting to see he's branching out to other threads now
Also interesting is the fact that he presents his anti-smoking agenda as a moral argument, when all he does is tell people to kill themselves (a sin) and is mostly against smoking in Mad Men because they "force the e-girl" in the show to fake smoke (the use of the term shows he's sexually attracted to little girls, which is sexual abuse, both immoral and illegal)
TL;DR: he's an idiot, all he'll do is act hysterical and tell you to an hero, pay him no mind
>morality is INSANE
have a nice day
>fake herbal cigarettes
No, they're definitely real cigarettes. What they're made of doesn't matter, it's still real smoking
have a nice day
>(a sin)
I don't believe in such bullshit.
How could encouraging bad "people" to die be bad? It is bad for bad "people" to exist so it would be good for them to be dead
gave some cigarettes to a kid today. he'll be hooked with in a week.
>plans within plans
>look past the morals of a book and see its literary merit
Yeah I'm just going to read a thousand pages of some shit I don't like to assess the 'merit' of it.
I've read it. It's quite garbage in terms of writing. But the guy sometimes has a way with metaphors and writers interesting inner monologue.
But his brain had strange patterns, he kept repeating the same words he used again and again within a short distance.
good bait
he's not a writer
>he's a writer, he can probably look past the morals of a book and see its literary merit.
Youre making it even harder for Dune. Franks writing is sloppy as frick.
never heard this plebbit perspective until this year.
>paul is acherly the villain
>baron harkonen is acherly a inersent viktim
2d, deluded view which suggests you read that opinion before ever seeing any of the films let alone reading the book
If you're incapable of understanding a normal 100 iq person could easily arrive at that perspective without the reddit then I think the 2D thinking is coming from inside the house
The subversion is basically a psychopathic mass killer shows zero signs from his childhood, and evil is (consistently justifiable) culture not innate.
But tolkien was a fan of the foundation trilogy and that series is blatantly antitheist.
How did he like one over the other even though both reject his political views?
And while I like Asimov, Dune has more literary merit than the OG trilogy
because Dune is not anti-theist, it's more nuanced than that
and it's this nuanced unraveling of organized religion that would likely strike a nerve
Frank Herbert clearly understands religion, has studied it, and despite that is not a believer
He's a staunch Catholic. I think it's just his Christian bias against Islam. He just can't help it, which is fine. You can't expect everyone to like everything.
t. Muslim.
Sorry I meant Tolkien was Catholic, not Herbert.
Apology accepted. Now rot in hell you sniveling son of a b***h!
>dune
>literary merit
Foundation is also blatantly antiviolent.
messiah wasn't popular in general because it subverted the hero tropes, as a warning against charismatic leaders. paul played the villain because he could see of all possible futures it was the one that could avoid total annihilation
Stfu troony
Wrong.
Wrong.
Kys troons.
Dune is just a boring book
He was an Anglo
have a nice day third world filth
Tolkien was a half-decent writer but he was also a christcuck and christcucks will always seethe when religion is exposed for the powerful force for manipulation of the masses in works of fiction because they see the reflection of their own doctrine in it.
>Tolkien was a half-decent writer but he was also a christcuck and christcucks will always seethe when religion is exposed for the powerful force for manipulation of the masses in works of fiction because they see the reflection of their own doctrine in it.
inb4 he calls you a israelite for not loving HIS israelite
>t.
kek imagine this being your lord and savior
You mean people like Sabbatai Zevi? Beats me, must be demons causing that due to them having rejected God in flesh.
*tips fedora*
>13 year old doesn't know what religion is, why it exists or what it is for
>just listens to moronic commie propaganda due to complete lack of a brain
>know what religion is, why it exists or what it is for
Okay please enlighten us
>has to repeat /misc/ talking points on Cinemaphile after getting BTFO'd on /misc/ regularly
Christianity defends itself.
Dune was aimed at people iike Shabbatai Zevi.
Also it wasn't even aimed against messiah figures in general because the author only retconned it with that interpretation once success came and wanted to milk it dry.
The first one is just random stuff, power trip fantasy.
lmao at all of these christcucks seething at you anon, you're right.
I've been atheistic most of my life, but I find the morals in lotr to be pretty universal, it's not some blind appeal to dogma.
"Be a good friend and a neighbour, stand up to tyrannical oppression" etc.
Also kill your enemies if need be, which is not really the modern day cuckstian (or canadian) take.
Seem like pretty good guidelines to me.
Correct.
Also, check'd.
you're onto something Catholicucks are having a melty
jesus aint gettin up after this one, oof
Samegayging your own post. The real sign of a complete mental nonentity. Go tip your fedora in a mirror so you can see how stupid you look
All those words to tell me that you are a self lobotomized idiot and what's worse publicly recite the failed and moronic mantras of that worthless and demonstrably wrong Marx without any self awareness. It is God that raises us above the bestial and our Lord and savior Christ who you will eventually find your way to from your childish self imposed darkness. If you were trying to impersonate a rude and stupid and immature teen you succeeded.
Dune is midwit slop
Dune doesn't have fairy tale good guys and bad guys, or really any heroes at all
Lord of the rings is a standard hero's journey adventure with strong themes of faith and the importance of friendship. Dune is about a false messianic figure profiting off the beliefs of his followers and causing what is essentially hyper genocide over a period of several thousand years. Even putting aside how critical Dune is of religion, at a fundamental level this is basically the optimist vs. cynic argument. I mean the entire second book is about Paul refusing to completely buy in to his own messiah mythos and thus failing his friends, family, and the empire he made through conquest. The characters in lord of the rings go through some really rough stuff, sure, but they ultimately succeed and get their happy endings. Paul's reward for everything he did is to lose the love of his life, his children and his empire, only to get murdered by his sister's thugs in the streets like some common criminal. His son avoids a similar fate only by embracing the mythos and transforming himself into the worm.
Dune is not just critical of religion, it's critical of the entire concept of the hero's journey. Of course Tolkien didn't like it.
> Lord of the rings is a standard hero's journey
No it isn’t, Frodo fails at the end lol
LOTR is not a standard hero's journey. Frodo ends up mentally-scarred and having to leave Middle Earth while Aragorn barely has an arc at all, but is a chad from start to finish.
The main protagonist of LotR has extremely standard hero's journey though.
>Dune is about a false messianic figure
I am tiring of people saying this, Paul is the Kwisatz Haderach, capable of seeing the future. How is he false? for good or bad, he is the choosen one.
His problem was that he neither cared for Dune nor for going around saying unkind things about it.
His problem was that Dune is soulless.
Science fiction, when posing as intellectual in handling the human condition, is garbage.
Whatever the most popular take is on this, the truth is the perfect and exact opposite.
Think of what literally any random normie hates about Dune and assumes Tolkien hated about it, Tolkien loved that part. Name what a ~~*media literate*~~ homosexual hates about Dune, Tolkien loved that to. It's what, specifically, those people love about Dune that Tolkien hated. Tolkien's Legendarium starts with fricktons of magic and mysticism dying off as the Lotr world gradually becomes are world, and that sucks, but men will always find away. Herbert's Dune is about mysticism coming back, beating the frick out of rationality, secularism being both more evil and (more importantly) more powerful than secularism, and how a good man who believes in gay ass hippie horseshit will still become a vaguely mystic tyrant because all that shit will inevitably lose.
Dune and Lotr don't disagree, they are almost magnetically opposed. One is about a great mythic era slowly fading and man finding his way in an increasingly more mechanical and less magical world as all the shit that was cool about the past literally sails off into the sunset, and that's sad but man can make it work. The other is about the mystic dominating in a secular future we were promised, a messiah rising and kicking the shit out of every check and balance made to reign him in. An indecisive story that relies in undermining its own theme to tell it (uhh Leto is evil but IT'S FOR A GOOD REASON) as is common in muh progressive writing, and ends only because a figure written to be far more absolute and infallible than anyone in Tolkien allows himself to be killed, thus freeing man, and lamenting that, by his own writing NECESSARY, act to be a bad thing.
tl;dr: Tolkien was a right wing doomer who thought leftism would inevitably win (but man's determination through God's guidance will somwhow make it all work out). Herbert was a left wing doomer who went to the Middle-East and saw Muslim belligerence first hand and figured all that gay hippie shit the west was eating was great, but so fricked in the long run no one in the future would be liberal and it would instead be a world where everyone was far right and the further right you were the more likely you were to win.
Ah yes, devils advocate for the sake of "freedom"
>Dune becomes more fantastic as it progresses
>LOTR becomes more lame as it progresses
>Nerds were wrong on everything
Water is Wet
Yes, but how to drown them all?
Throwing rocks is more effective than that loser Ganjaelf and his cantrips
This shit completely omits the fact that Istari are supposed to use their powers extremely conservatively. As for Sauron, he's powerful enough to bend entire nations to his will even in the weakened state he is in during LotR.
Tolkien:
>In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.
>All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dínen.
>'You cannot enter here,' said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. 'Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!'
>The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
>'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!' And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.
>Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a wiener crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
>And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.
Tolkien wad an absolutely obnoxious butthole, but he was a very talented writer regardless
Herbert:
>"Summon the dwarf," he said. "Bijaz!" Dhuri called. "You call me?" The dwarf stepped into the room from the courtyard, an alert expression of worry on his face.
>"You have a new master, Bijaz," Dhuri said. She stared at Paul. "You may call him . . . Usul."
>"Usul, that's the base of the pillar," Bijaz said, translating. "How can Usul be base when I'm the basest thing living?"
>"He always speaks thus," Otheym apologized.
>"I don't speak," Bijaz said. "I operate a machine called language. It creaks and groans, but is mine own." A Tleilaxu toy, learned and alert, Paul thought. The Bene Tleilax never threw away something this valuable. He turned, studied the dwarf. Round melange eyes returned his stare.
>"What other talents have you, Bijaz?" Paul asked.
>"I know when we should leave," Bijaz said. "It's a talent few men have. There's a time for endings -- and that's a good beginning. Let us begin to go, Usul." Paul examined his vision memory: no dwarf, but the little man's words fitted the occasion.
>"At the door, you called me Sire," Paul said. "You know me, then?"
>"You've sired, Sire," Bijaz said, grinning. "You are much more than the base Usul. You're the Atreides Emperor, Paul Muad'dib. And you are my finger." He held up the index finger of his right hand.
>"Bijaz!" Dhuri snapped. "You tempt fate."
>"I tempt my finger," Bijaz protested, voice squeaking. He pointed at Usul.
christcucks hate badboy jesus because their guy is a big disappointment
>refuses to elaborate
>dies
>not putting all of his notes, letters, musings, interviews and other people's anecdotes about him into an ai and having it mechanically recover his opinion by unwelcome force
I've done this with seven authors already, some of the most prolific, and have them serve my will answering every petty question I come up with.
i even tested it by kidnapping jk rowling and comparing her real life responses with her ai responses and they matched completely.
she also let me suck her boobies, both digital and flesh.
Peak pseud.
>ESL can't follow a simple post
>schizophrenic memebrain on top
Can you re-write that in English?
Oi, can't believe sum ain't jus' lobbed all 'is scribbles, chinwags, an' wotever peeps gabbed about 'im into an AI to blurt out 'is two bob's worth. Done it wiv a bunch o' scribblers, right gabby ones, now they're all cushty chattin' up a storm on any ol' malarkey I cobble together. Even 'ad a giggle testin' it by leggin' it wiv JK, checkin' if 'er real jawin' stacks up wiv 'er AI. Bang on, they woz
Herbert’s writing style is really really dry, even taking all the religious and political themes aside I don’t think Tolkien will like Dune simply because Herbert’s mastery of language probably isn’t up to Tolkien’s Oxford academic standards
>Dude, morality is like, fricking grey, there’s no such thing as good and evil. >You are stupid if you trust charismatic effective leaders
>religion is Le fake and made to control you, trust the soïyance and abandon religiosity
>you should feel bad for exploiting knuckle dragging tribals for oil
Tolkien was right and all the 60’s-70’s proto-woke Hippie-slop is finally getting the ridicule it deserves. So much of modern media derives its morality from post-WWII shitlibs writing about how authoritarianism is evil even if it makes people happy and promotes a safe society.
>Tolkien was right
>fricking hippies, authoritarianism is based
Tolkien is only popular because of dope smoking boomer hippies in the 60s and 70s falling in love with his pastoral, romantic anti-authoritarianism.
>anti-authoritarianism
Most of the main heroes are literal kings and lords of their lands, even the fricking hobbits.
How could you come to such a bold yet idiotic conclusion?
Herbert and Dune had fundamentally different world view than Tolkien’s.
Tolkien hated Disney too
Dune is just boring Woke Atheist israeli Propaganda with a billion made up words.
Haha I totally forgot about the random made-up words all over the places.
there's doubt about whether tolkein even wrote the ring saga, or whether it was a collection of about a dozen separate authors all compiling their works under one title.
it's thought perhaps over half of them were women
>it's thought perhaps over half of them were women
And the other half were blacks.
and most of those were trannies.
>differently abled trannies
ftfy
>with preferences for younger persons
ikr
tbf he looks pretty racist in that pic
he reminds me of that nobel prize saying black have lower iq or whatever it was
pretty sure the nobel prize guy is one of the guys that discovered dna
James Watson
Look at him. Sitting there. Racistly.
*Ahem* Can you show me your authorization for that pic please?
Dune is overrated, it has a high reputation because it pioneered some sci-fi concepts, not because it is a particularly good book. I also have a feeling that Star Wars boosted its popularity since George ripped Dune off. Can actual boomers comment on this, did Dune experience a surge when Star Wars came out?
Leftards only rewarded the book when it released because of its ecological themes and giving an elaborate face lift to sand people, making them relevant.
No mention of its merit as a literary work or for sci-fi tropes.
Officially, as we all know, it's a tale of small, democratic communities - like the hobbits of the Shire - resisting the totalitarian rule of Sauron and his ally Saruman. This is, at least, the straightforward political narrative, if we set aside the magic and myth for a moment. But if we scrutinize the depiction of these characters and their world more closely, we unearth a quite different subtext beneath the surface of the official narrative.
When you look at how the hobbits are portrayed, you find that they are depicted almost as provincial, anti-modernist figures. Their simplicity is emphasized, along with their rural customs and attire, portraying them as anti-intellectual, deeply rooted in a narrow worldview. Now, contrast this with how the invading forces of Mordor and Isengard are depicted - not primarily as soldiers, but as a sort of militarized managers and strategists, orchestrating large scale industrial warfare, a kind of cosmopolitan, decadent corruption.
So, that's my point: at the level of simple narrative reality, we receive one message - heroic resistance to totalitarianism. But at the level of what we might call the virtual texture - these subtle cues and smaller signs - we get practically the opposite message, which is: "Honest fascists resisting a decadent, cosmopolitan takeover."
>hobbits are anti intellectual
>write well respected history books
Bilbo and Frodo are pretty clearly far out of the norm as far as hobbits go
It's a part of Hobbit culture.
The Tooks have their own history book.
>Tolkien bows to this
Tolkien was a Catholic.
The one that went with anglobong denomination was CS Lewis.
Good old Clive Staples.
It feels like he didn’t enjoy much of anything that he wasn’t directly involved with.
He was a very passionate Subbuteo player.
>I don't personally like it so I'm just not going to comment on it instead of being a whiny pissbaby and shitting all over it and demanding it change to fit my tastes
I wish more people followed the example.
maybe linguistics, dune just uses random arabic and scandinavian words while tolkien spend years creating functional langauges for his fantasy world.
so shouldn't he have just kept silent then? way to contradict yourself, hackien.
It was a private comment.
Tolkein wrote childrens novels. Not that I like Dune but him pretending to be superior is next level cope
>next level cope
What are you blithering about? The Hobbit was for children and inspired TLOTR which was, like the myths it was based on, for everyone.
His level of prose didn't improve. Its still poorly written slop. His talent wasn't writing books
this board wouldn't exist if it wasn't for said "slopwriter"
Paul is entirely selfish and only ever does things that benefit him directly. I could see Tolkien disliking the character.
All the people in this thread saying Herbert was a leftist should listen to some of the interviews and talks he gave. He was pretty outspoken against leftism and progressivism in general, and considered Kennedy to have been the most dangerous president up until that time.
Tolkien’s dislike of Dune was due to the fact that people compared it to LOTR. Tolkien’s work is firmly embedded within the traditional worldview, whereas Herbert explores a worldview that’s only recently developed, composed of networks of systems in feedback.
Both works are good medicine, but it takes a shrewd mind to walk between the two worlds.
people are saying Herbert is a leftist because the Dune movie (made long after his death) has brown people in it and is 'woke' somehow
none of them have read Tolkien's condemnation of Nazism or they'd be screeching about how he's a israeli bolshevik agent or something instead.
Dune is for relativist Black folk without faith
Dune sucks.
Simple as.
What was Frank's fricking problem?
>...although ...he rubbed it in her hair
What terrible purpose.
>rigging the machine and hitting them when they told the truth
feints within feints. this is how you train imperial truthsayers
If my son was Brian Herbert I would beat him too.
He got his revenge in the end by fricking up the later books.
No wonder his Mary Sue Paul kills billions of people off-page
Tolkien was an author who would write an entire chapter describing the wood that a table was made out of.
He's the absolute worst fricking writer.
*and morons call this shit "world building".
Point me to such a chapter you dumb c**t.
pg253 of The Sillymarillian.
That page is about Turin Turambar riding out with Elves to fight Orcs and Glaurung (dragon).
They lose the battle but Turin does a lot of shit.
Comments like these are great for identifying who hasn't actually read the Lord of the Rings. They've heard from someone who actually read books that Tolkien was too long in his descriptions, and parrot it exaggeratedly.
Yes, it's like parroting some old meme they don't really even understand. I re-read lotr some months ago and there's a reason it's such a foundational classic.
But nitpicking and "deconstructing" is in fashion these days so it is what it is. And lotr has that quote which fits people like this perfectly.
Modern brainrot is now at a point that genuinely liking and enjoying something for what it is makes people mad.
Well, Tolkien was a deeply religious man and Dune is one of the biggest anti-religion books out there.
You do the math.
Lord of the rings movies were shit. And it wasn’t Tolkien’s fault. I wonder what Tolkien would have said about those movies.
>I hate it
>But I won’t say that I hate it
He said he hated it, but not to the general audience
Tolkien explicitly said he couldn't think objectively about it because it was written along similar lines as his own work so I think the problem is that while both Dune and LotR are fundamentally about the danger of conformity to an uncaring system of social control, technological or otherwise, LotR's "moral" is to stick to your morals and just have faith that it'll work out in the end because Jesus, and Dune's moral is to cultivate the physical and mental discipline to always resist those systems because heroes are bullshit and nobody will save you.
I wish you made sense but you're as incoherent as your worldview.
Holy shit this board is filled with some moutbreathers. What he said makes perfect sense.
>jaded atheistic zoomer writes a worthless reply
why did you bother, it has no end goal, why even talk with anyone?
lmao you sound like a jaded atheistic zoomer.
Oo thats my second quads today. Whats the chances of that?
The point is you cannot look at a wall and imagine it looking back at you. You have to become the wall. Only then will you understand the wall was never there in the first place. Except it was. But it was behind you the whole time. You missed it. And now there are female priests.
How Can Mirrors Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real?
>LotR's "moral" is to stick to your morals and just have faith that it'll work out in the end because Jesus,
You're a fricking idiot
There's more humanity in more of Tolkien's characters than Frank Herbert's turbo-autistic superhumans. Middle-earth feels like a legendarium of stories and relatable themes
>Devout Christian who wrote LOTR as a Catholic fable dislikes a scifi book that is about how religion is fake and gay and made up to control people
Imagine my shock
What did Bev do to Frank to inspire his Honored Matres?
Can someone try to distill the storyarc of the dune saga to a few lines? It seems like every time I try it it ends up looking more and more moronic. I'm trying to make a point how it's a disjointed mess, so in fairness I'd like to see someone who appreciates it more do it.
>le gholas
Boy dreams of girl. Boy meets worm. Boy becomes worm. Sand gets everywhere. Accept it.
>space israelites control space travel
>eugenics child gets his family murdered by space israelites but survives
>gains magic powers from worm poop that gives space israelites their power
>genocides space because it's actually the least violent option
>feels bad, fricks off
>his son becomes a worm to finish the job over the course of a few thousand years
>sand
why don't you read it lol
I've read them and they're cool books for the genre, but summing up the story is...interesting.
Tolkien was talking about the juvenile prose not themes or story of Dune.
what was paul's tax policy as emperor?
The sales tax must flow.
halal mortgage
Dune does have more cultures and worlds.
You'd think the tribes of Elves and tribes of Men would have more separation and variety of cultures instead of Numenor and Not-Numenor. More breakaway Noldor or Sindar/Nandor kingdoms like Thandruil's Greenwood that sorta cooperated with High King Gil-Galad. More population in Third Age Eriador. Confederation of Mannish towns like Bree and Dale.
Good evening to you Mr. GPT
>variety of cultures instead of numenor and not-numenor
What a moronic fricking post.
What other Second Age kingdom was there beside Numenor and its colonies?
Why outside of crumbling Arnor and steadfast Gondor is there just Rohan, Dunlendings, and scattered Rhovanion men?
I didn't write it, a doddering Oxford professor did.
dune is shit and only pretentious morons pretend otherwise
when arda turns into a globe after numenor, does valinor turn into a little moon that orbits it?
>frick Dune, that shit's gay
Woah Mr Tolkien, you shouldn't put stuff like that in your letters to CS Lewis
>No review, I refuse.
Had he seen Dunc he would have said the book is a masterpiece in comparison
It's simple: He HATES America, Americans, and their shitty "literature."
he liked Conan
tolkien's real sin was that he didn't like kinos at all. ive never met a cool person that didn't like to watch movies
I like both LOTR and Dune, but both writers have problems. Tolkien can't write an ending to save his life and the Silmarilion is unreadable wank. Herbert has some cringy ideas sprinkled between the good ones. The 4th Dune book was equal parts fascinating and stupid.
>Tolkien can't write an ending to save his life
???
What's wrong with the endings of the hobbit and lotr? They're solid endings.
And silmarillion doesn't really count for J.R.R. for obvious reasons.
theyre gay and you are gay for liking them
They go on forever. LOTR actually ends like fricking a 4/5ths of the way through the through, the last fifth just being tedious descriptions of boring mop-up.
Coming back from the war and re-settling home is a massively important part of the story, and understandably so since Tolkien was a veteran himself who saw his friends die in war.
In a sense Frodo never comes back. He's too broken from the ring and the war to fit into normal life again even though he tries and is important in taking back the shire. And you don't come back to what was there when you left but something that needs to be fixed and set up again with effort and work.
Maybe if more people understood that a war doesn't end when the last bullet is fired we'd have less vets offing themselves or killing themselves with drugs and booze.
The homecoming and resettling is among the most important parts of the whole trilogy.
Another important part is that the hobbits take back their home without relying on some external help. They save themselves. It's not some epic battle with fantasy creatures but competent men taking out the trash in their own homeland.
>Tolkien can't write an ending to save his life
This is moronation on levels never before seen.
>tolkien can't write an ending
One of the lowest IQ takes in the thread.
>it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment.
I respect him for that. If this was now, he would be on Twitter, blasting Frank for his work.
>hates Dune
>loves Conan
I don’t see a problem here
>What was his fricking problem?
Dune is immoral and depraved and he was right
>Brian, my son, did I ever tell you the full story of Lady Jessica? You know, the matriarch of House Atreides - descended from the manipulative Bene Gesserit! - whom I used to serialize of in Analog Science Fact & Fiction? Well what I didn't mention back then was Jessica was also totally into incest: all stern and motherly and horny like Jocasta in Oedipus Rex or what will later come to be known as the MILF subculture. In fact she looked very much like the pornographic actress Xev Bellringer who will be born 2 years after I die. Brian, I will be entrusting you with my estate. If there is ever a movie adaptation of my work you must make sure they get this Jessica right - make sure she is what the Fremen would have called a eahirat muthirat haqiqia, a real sexy b***h.
>Oh and one more thing, Chani is supposed to be hideously ugly with a bad attitude and bossy personality