time and time again, i’ve seen a lot of people ‘round the net butter up BTAS a little too much; like i know the show is great, but like, woo-ha
ngl i've been recently waning in and out thru the series thru episodes cut into chunks, video essays, etc. and i noticed while the series is mostly great thru-and-thru, some of the villains featured aren't given their due (penguin, riddler, and hugo strange come to mind) there's some jarring animation mistakes here and there (joker's raccoon eyes) and there are times where it feels like it's not 100% the creator-driven masterpiece the internet says it is (it's more 60% creators, 25% BS&P stuff, and 15% WB horizontal marketing)
which leads to the Q: is BTAS really as great as the internet says it is? or has everyone got their rose-tinted-goggles on too tight? and for that matter, are there any characters subsequent* batman shows/comics/whatever did better than BTAS?
(for that matter, am i gonna die for this?)
*(TNBA counts as a subsequent series if ya rly wanna get nitpicky BTW)
TNBA has higher highs
tbf when you only got 22 episodes, you rly gotta hone in on the best stories
To Timm and Dini, B:TAS was just a stepping-stone to the DCAU they really wanted to make but couldn't during the Fox Kids days, which is why it's almost totally non-canon to the rest of it.
i doubt it; the clock king shows up in a JLU episode, and several DCAU comics seem to feature the classic B:TAS suit/villain designs
JLU was all about cameos, though little more than that. And then there's Zatanna disregarding everything about her TAS appearance where she had no actual magic powers.
>several DCAU comics
Comics don't count. They're not canon, ever.
>Comics don't count. They're not canon, ever.
idunno, some folks rly wanna know how batman knew a giant kirby-demon
Did they make it into an episode like they did with Mad Love? If not, forget it.
Dini and Timm worked on the annual with Etrigan and considered it canon
Who cares if it's canon? The DCAU comic runs were some of the best Supe comics during the nadir of the industry in the 90's.
true, tho that prolly has to do with the fact main DCU superman was kinda going thru some phases back then
Only by default since Superman was a total mess in the 90s due to how every writer wanted to ape the Death/Return arc with their own "epic" tales.
>Superman was a total mess in the 90s
Not really, triangle era was solid.
JLU was under control of an executive mandate to keep all major Batman related characters off the show in order to give them more attention in the then running “The Batman” animated series airing on KidsWB at the time. It was referred by fans as the Bat Embargo. The Batman cartoon itself was also affected by this as they weren’t allowed to have Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Ra’s al Ghul in their own show.
The JLU team was able to sneak in a handful of obscure cameos here and there, like KGBeast showing up in Legion of Doom, Professors Strange and Milo showing up in Cadmus, and costumeless Dick and Tim showing up at Superman’s funeral. A few years before they were able to get away with showcasing the alternate universe version of Gotham with lobotomized Joker and Ivy having a few lines. And Clayface got a surprise appearance in the Grodd Society two-parter.
But even before the embargo, Timm was rejecting scripts that were Batman focused because he wanted the other parts of the DC Universe to be highlighted. One script was said to have Poison Ivy as the main villain. I would have killed for that.
>The Batman cartoon itself was also affected by this as they weren’t allowed to have Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Ra’s al Ghul in their own show.
And the reason Batgirl was introduced first was because they had to wait for Teen Titans to end before they could use Robin.
>which is why it's almost totally non-canon to the rest of it.
You keep saying this, maybe one day you'll get people to believe it.
Setting aside personal quibbles (I hated their concept of Riddler from bottom to top, and they handed Catwoman to the resident SJW writer so she was fricked from the go) I think it's fair to say the average episode's quality really did fall closer to the I've Got Batman in My Basement side of the scale than the Heart of Ice side. But there ARE enough episodes on, or close enough, to the Heart of Ice side to make it better than other capeshows of the time, then and now. Frick, I still watch the first Scarface episode at least once a year.
That said, I think the reason even the bad eps tend to be fondly remembered is that everyone (including Shirley Walker and her orchestra) really, truly nailed an unforgettable aesthetic. Even if one day every individual story on the show is outshone by a later effort, I genuinely don't think the opening sequence will ever be topped.
People like to forgot that at least 3rd of the episodes are hot garbage.
>episodes cut into chunks, video essays, etc
Your opinions are invalid until you watch a complete episode,
it’s less an opinion and more an observation, rly
mebbe someday i’ll buckle in an’ watch the whole series
More of a Superman Adventures guy but it’s pretty damn good.
Part of the reason why it's considered "definitive" is it was able to take all the previous decades of Batman media and distill it down to mostly the parts that worked. Some villains were reworked to be better in a way that expanded on the original characters instead of tossing them out. Bruce was a character you could legitimately root for instead of a psychotic mental patient. This was stuff that even later DCAU shows forgot, but it was stuff that left an impression on kids and made them actual fans of Batman.
true, though some fared better than the others
for every mr. freeze, there’s a bane: https://youtu.be/52cfIMQZMa8?si=I3ACOCeCVPLyWX6Q
One of the show's writers said that anime is better
https://dcanimated.com/WF/batman/btas/backstage/interviews/kirkland.php
kirkland also said his best x-men work surpasses his best batman work aswell
make of that what you will
The storytelling limitations are what made those early seasons so good. When Timm and friends got more control, we got BatBabs.
Well he isn't wrong but btas is still one if not the best western episodic cartoon.
I distinctly remember watching BTAS as a kid, and I honestly don't know how I did it, except for back then we didn't have a million other distractions thanks to the internet and cell phones and all that. As an adult I can appreciate the stylized animation, the conflicts the characters have to suffer through, their relationships that often get complicated... but I can see why a kid today would find the show slow-paced and even boring outside of the fight scenes. It's definitely a show for Batman and superhero fans, which I'm not especially into, but I'm glad the show existed when it did because I don't think it would stand up to young audiences today.
Then again, I used to run around my basement with a cardboard steering wheel pretending I was driving the Mach 5, so what the hell do I know about good cartoons?
apparently X-men and spider-man TAS did better in the ratings than BTAS. A lot of people give those shows shit for being less polished, especially Spider-man- but I think they were more engaging to most kids.
well, marvel comics were pretty hot commodities back then
(oh who am I kidding they still are)
> batman shows/comics/whatever did better than BTAS
BTAS did really well with Batman and a majority of his rogues, but the allies in the series were extremely lacking. Dick Grayson feels like an afterthought due to Timm hating Robin. Batgirl was never given that much outside of Dick's cuck plotline. Timm was fine, but mostly because he stole from Jason. I do find it weird how much Dini seems to prefer Timm as he is also given the most characterization in the Arkham games.
With that said:
> Teen Titans 2003 - Basically is the reason people like Robin. He was so much better written here than in BTAS.
> Young Justice - Once again building off TT, Young Justice made Dick into the giga-chad of DC, whereas BTAS cucked him.
> The Batman 2004 - Batgirl and Robin are much more fleshed out and fun. Killer Croc is a legitimate threat. Clayface is arguably at his peak in this series, along with Hugo Strange. Yin was a good replacement to the traditional police characters.
> Batman Brave & The Bold - Overall more consistent than BTAS. BTAS has higher highs, but BB&B is a guaranteed good time no matter the episode.
> Beware - Had an overarching narrative which could make it interesting. I sort of feel bad for Beware as it never got a chance to really make an impact.
>Arkham Series - Got to go darker and feel like a more refined BTAS. It is BTAS without the censors, which can really improve some characters.
mm
i will add the 4th season (TNBA) also had more lenient censors to boot, leading to more dramatic scenarios than what they had at FOX
people (+ the DVD) tend to lump it in, an’ that”s how you got the “how did they get away with this” moments that freak mariam out
>Yin was a good replacement to the traditional police characters.
Until she was written out so they could shove Gordon in.
Beware also gave Magpie a new design that's stuck since and made her a more formidable villain. But yeah, it came at the worst possible time.
And Gordon was barely a character past his intro episode too. He was basically there to segue a plot to Batgirl, who also kind of got sidelined for Robin.
I’m less offended by episodes like Batman in my basement and more offended by things like Batman not helping cure clayface
>greatest thing