Spider-man is a moronic character with an awful fanbase. The fact that they still buy his crappy comics and keep him a best seller, the fact that they ate up three reboots in only 20 years for live action, the fact that they bought a glorified dlc at a regular full game price is proof of this. You get what you fricking deserve.
I love when Marvel employees get so assmad they make posts like this
You know you're winning when they start calling characters moronic and the fanbase awful
I'm sitting here wondering why you think this is clever and then I remember marvel employees actually do shit on your face on a daily basis. You deserve it, that's what I think, of you eat shit you're gonna taste shit. Pathethic battered housewives.
People into Spider-Man don't play Insomniac games. Also, it underperformed severely on launch despite being the only PS5 game available, as Miles did his own thang (flop).
Honestly Miles was fine, I liked what they did with this iteration, I like how Prowler is more anti-hero and I like how the conflict in his game was still big but not enough to detract from the scale of the threats Peter faced while still trying to keep the personal element to it. Plus they give all the venom stuff a nice punch to make up for him not having suit powers like Peter.
Challenges can frick themselves, at least in the original you didn't need Ultimate rank to finish them but the final traversal challenge in Miles alone made me never want to replay the game from scratch.
I've seen batgays reject Gotham Knights while spideygays are up Miles. I've seen the newest Batman movie underperform while the Spider-sodomite movies continue to make bank in spite of all the horrible decisions they've made. I've seen the ongoing Batman run fall in sales under King and he got kicked off while Spider-man continues to sit at the top despite a decade of Slott.
He's a fine generic capeshit character. He's not going away and Miles is trash.
I think we should kill Spider-man.
They've already tried that and it failed. They just need to properly reboot him in his own universe. No Miles, No Spider-Gwens, no Spiderverse and genderswaps. Just no more.
I'm still fricking mad about Luke, like holy shit the Black folk in charge didn't even get the 3 OGs together in the same scene, how in the frick were they that moronic I legit went from a fricking Star Wars mark that bought a ton of the games, comics and toys to someone that has not even so much as looked at the franchise since Last Jedi. The only news I heard was that McGregor got to star in an Obi-Wan series and that's cool for him since he's a great actor. Am I watching it or anything else Wars related? Frick no.
What I'm getting at through all that is Slott is wrong, you can only frick up a character for so long before even its diehard enjoyers will move on to different shit, and you're not going to attract new readers by your product being garbage neither
>anything that displeases you can be hand-waved away down the road >meanwhile, Joe Quesada: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SPIDER-MAN CAN'T BE MARRIED BECAUSE I GOT A DIVORCE I'M GOING TO HANDPICK AN EDITORIAL TEAM TO MAKE SURE SPIDER-MAN NEVER GETS MARRIED AGAIN FOR AS LONG AS I AND THE REST OF MY MINIONS ARE ALIVE
I don’t know about Wally, but Kyle Rayner was in a terrible place before Geoff and Tomasi brought Hal back, why by the way, people wanted back for years because of the sad state of the GL following Emerald Twilight. Also >John Stewart
Absolutely nobody but Timmgays like that character. His solo stories are always terrible.
If they weren't getting ruined every single time then why does this stuff always need a run after that tries to salvage things? If fans didn't speak up we'd probably get a run where Peter is killed by Paul who just so happens to get spider powers too so Paul can take up the Spider-Man mantle while Peter dies a cuck turned into a villain by asspullery. If course correction is needed then you've fricked up, if you need your A-Team on standby to essentially save a comic run then you've fricked up. This isn't rocket science
Looks like typical Marvel Employee gaslighting technique: >call a fanbase a "gay" ("Spidergays", "X-gays") >claim they're delusional >call them autistic
>If they weren't getting ruined every single time then why does this stuff always need a run after that tries to salvage things?
This. Every time they have to backpedal in-universe on some decision they doubled down on, but ultimately never had the option to stick to, it just makes these desperate attempts to change status quo feel more like pointless clickbait. After a while you stop caring. I was already disillusioned around the time Doc Oc took over Peter's body and Cap went Hydra. Even when I LIKE the change up, like Hulk having Devil Hulk in the driver's seat for a while, I know if it's too drastic of a change it will ultimately be undone by editorial that puts the legacy of the character before everything.
Slott is just an ass person in general who insulates himself as some modern godfather of spiderman. He's prob the least humble writer and just tries to protrude a fake nice guy act online, when he's just really a vicious little spiderman fan like everyone else is. >The ego on him is outstanding at times.
He's right. Spider-Man is a property that will never fricking end as long as it prints money. This applies to other franchises. Just enjoy what you like because something that will exist for a long time will eventually have crap be made out of it. As long as the original exists who gives a shit.
I remember days before Amazing Spider-Man 700 there was a thread for people to post their theories on who the "superior" spider-man was and one random anon who nobody replied to said it was doc ock that had mind switched with peter and left him to die in his body while living on in his place and in his body. I remember because i read it and thought "hah that's some wild fanfic shit" and then boom sure enough that Wednesday. Had to have been slott
It's no secret that comic people come here and Marvel employees have definitely been here before. Bendis' Civil War II was leaked on Cinemaphile by a Marvel intern and it was all the same shit that ended up coming out except back then Ulysses name was Homer.
He is kinda right in the sense that comic books retcon shit all the time. So any storyline, good for bad, is ultimately meaningless since everything can be erased and re-started.
Its not "meaningless" if it takes two, ten or twenty years for anything to get fixed, if at all.
"Why can't you just eat garbage with the same brand as your usual food for a few years?"
Yeah, but at the same time I don't think that is an open invitation to just frick things up and antagonize the readers, then basically get to work telling to quit their b***hing on twitter.
Marvel employees seem to really come off like those grudging angry nerds that reach some kind of middle management position at Best buy or Target and then think of themselves as all power and finally they are the authority that people have to follow and deal with, getting their weird psycho revenge for being picked on in school.
This is like telling customers "don't buy the book, come back in a decade and maybe it'll be fixed" which I'm sure is great for customers because they can drop every Marvel book and go over to manga while retailers get pissed and have to rely on variant shit to pay the bills
I don't believe his claim that you can't ruin a character but even if true that's not an excuse to just write whatever garbage you want with the hope that someone else will fix it eventually. Especially if you are a fat parasite who refuses to leave the franchise after years. I mean he did actively ruin a decade of comics.
He's right but only in the sense that marriage-fans need to get on with their lives. It's been 15 years, move on, enjoy the decades of Spider-Man before they scarred the character with demonic deals and pick up different new books.
How they gonna do that when they barely attract new fans to the comics, industrys been shrinking since the 90's and their stuck with the toxic fanbase that they created. > Even if you don't want the marriage to come back, he more or less wants to cultivate a message that writers are excused from bad writing.
>industrys been shrinking since the 90's
Marvel's lowest sales were in the late 90s/early 00s, they're still better off now than they were back then. They'll figure things out or they'll go out of business, same deal as it's always been. They decided long ago that catering exclusively to middle aged readers isn't the way to go. DC did that for a while in the 00s, then they switched gears and copied the Marvel plan.
>Marvel's lowest sales were in the late 90s/early 00s, they're still better off now than they were back then.
How do we really know for sure? We know late 90s/early 00s were really low but even back then Marvel still had like two or three titles doing 100,000 orders
late 2010/early 2011 was way worse than late 90s/early 00s because at one point there was no title doing 100,000 orders.
>Going by perch, back in last december no marvel title sold above 80k. >The push of variants and price points etc. >They had like a 10% boom of covid money for a few months that has dried up & the trajectory seems to be trending down for retailers
lol, obvious Marvel employee saying this >It's been 15 years, move on,
You have to be either massively dumb or a shill or both to think that's how Marvel comics work >industry where part of the selling point is in referencing the past >industry where people reference things from 15 years ago or more, complaining about people upset about something 15 years ago >OMD upends major storytelling points of Spider-Man >the readership doesn't believe in any love interest he gets will be anything important >Aunt May can't be in any danger because then they'd remind the readers of OMD intentionally or unintentionally
I got news for you, people in their early 20s now are starting to shit on OMD.
Bear in mind, people in their 20s now, would been born in late 90s or early 00s and were the audience that Marvel thought they'd bring in by doing OMD.
I was born in 1999 and read spiderman comics and trades as a kid (my other favorite was Runaways) and didn't even know what OMD was for a long time. My favorites were the newspaper tpb's and once I got old enough to understand what was and wasn't in continuity and the implications of OMD I grew to hate modern spiderman comics even though I didn't have a problem with them when I was ignorant because I realized that OMD stalled out the progression in Peter's story. I dont purchase spider man comics any more and haven't in years. I'm a nerdy zoomer who just got my first well paying tech job and suddenly have more disposable income than I really know what to do with, childhood fan, I'm the fricking platonic form of the target demographic and they lost me anyways
>Back issues are red-hot sellers. People want to buy comics. I bought an Amazing Spider-Man collection from the 70s and 80s a few weeks ago, and those are flying out the door almost as fast as I can get them priced. >I wish we could get more Iron Man and Hulk issues into the comic store from the 70s and 80s. We have customers who want them. They move on in a hurry if and when I manage to get more in. >New comic sales here in the comic store are increasingly slowing down. The recent death of Ms Marvel in Amazing Spider-Man was not a big deal at the store. A few people picked it up just for the death, though not many. I over-ordered it. >The latest issues of Iron Man and Hulk are low sellers. The characters have fans, but few are interested in their latest adventures.
It’s exactly this, for all of this b***hing we’ve heard from BOTH marvel and DC about the reaction to editorial decisions they’ve made telling us “you just want these characters to be like they were when you were 15” they never seem to realize that they all just tried to turn these comics and their characters back to a point they were at when THEY were 15.
>he would basically make horrific editorial decisions for the sake of his nostalgia.
Not true at all. Dan’s point was always that wtf are you not using your ironic characters and IPs that people in mainstream know. People know about Teen Titans, so why is it full of nobodies while all the real iconic TT characters are in shit like Young Justice or not appearing anywhere at all. And it’s a valid point. The only reason people get angry at Dan is because they’re fanboys and go “BUT I LIKE YOUNG JUSTICE!!”, not understanding that if you replaced the original YJ crew with random nobodies they would hate it. It’s why people don’t like most new Thunderbolts series when the original crew isn’t around.
And the reason Hal and Barry are back is because it sold tons of comics and there was a big amount of older fans who wanted them back, and it’s a fact that someone like Flash can’t really carry multiple books and Wally basically is redundant as an adult to be around when Barry is back, so that was why he was sidelined for a time. There often isn’t much room for every legacy character.
>Dan Didio’s biggest problem is that he would basically make horrific editorial decisions for the sake of his nostalgia.
Not true at all, but not because of whatever the frick this guy
>he would basically make horrific editorial decisions for the sake of his nostalgia.
Not true at all. Dan’s point was always that wtf are you not using your ironic characters and IPs that people in mainstream know. People know about Teen Titans, so why is it full of nobodies while all the real iconic TT characters are in shit like Young Justice or not appearing anywhere at all. And it’s a valid point. The only reason people get angry at Dan is because they’re fanboys and go “BUT I LIKE YOUNG JUSTICE!!”, not understanding that if you replaced the original YJ crew with random nobodies they would hate it. It’s why people don’t like most new Thunderbolts series when the original crew isn’t around.
And the reason Hal and Barry are back is because it sold tons of comics and there was a big amount of older fans who wanted them back, and it’s a fact that someone like Flash can’t really carry multiple books and Wally basically is redundant as an adult to be around when Barry is back, so that was why he was sidelined for a time. There often isn’t much room for every legacy character.
thinks it is.
For you, he's always chasing his idea of what's "cool", ignoring how often that's the opposite of what his audience thinks.
He admittedly tried to copy whatever the hell Marvel was doing... except he managed to copy everything they were doing WRONG, and somehow making it twice as moronic, at least.
>Is Dan Slott right?
Not really. OMD and the current run have really fricked things >Should we stop complaining about Marvel ruining Spider-Man?
Nah. And to be honest I didn't buy the current run or half post band new day shit.
>Whatever happens can be hand-waved down the line.
That’s not how storytelling works, fatfrick. How can Cinemaphile say with a straight face say that capeshit stories matter?
But that's exactly what Wells did to Slott's Gwen story in The Clone Conspiracy when he did his Judgment Day tie-in and what Slott himself did with Sins Past in that same story. The dimwitted move to to pull a Spencer and devote your entire run to retconning some bad old story no one cares about anymore in a way that fails to be entertaining or comprehensible.
Marvel and DC feel like collections of fanfic idiots fighting each other all the time publicly through their works. Hentai artists have more claim to the word “writer” than these chucklefricks.
Nothing is indestructible. Certainly not a character's popularity. The fact that Spiderman's popularity endures in pop culture due to secondary materials like movies and games does not mean that spider man comics cannot be awful or that a sufficiently bad string of runs cannot taint the character.
Superman is a much older character than spiderman, and the majority of pop culture discourse around Superman is "Why does Superman suck so much?" Clearly his popularity is not bulletproof, even though DC literally will never stop printing more superman because he is their brand face.
Dan is 100 right but not destroying is way different then having a character live up to their full potential.
I really wish Spide Man fans weren't the stupidest frickers in the world because the books right now are really bad, but they have no way to get that point across to the people who make the comics besides screeching.
It’s selling well compared to everything else Marvel is putting out, but that’s only by comparison. Neither Marvel nor DC are in good places market-wise, and the fact is that most people realize Spider-Man sucks, but given that most people read Spider-man…
They’re probably not willing to give the rest of Marvel’s catalogue a chance. If the flagship product is bad, it just chokes out the rest of the books.
yea I guess thats what I was saying about not living up to its full potential. Marvel tends to hide behind how much the book sells by going well why is it still one of the best selling books on the market.
Its because its says spider man. It could be selling as well as some manga if it was good and they sold it better.
Manga sales prove the medium is sound and there is interest: instead Marvel and DC are married to bad creative and business practices that hurt profitability and outreach immensely.
People like Dan Slott are just symptoms of the overall rot. Getting in the face of your customers and telling them that if they don’t like it they should just get back issues only and write fanfic is deeply unprofessional and stupid suggestions when retailers are suffering. But Slott doesn’t care, nobody cares. Dying business and dying company, Disney will pump money into them until the MCU dies.
Why is Slott so wilfully fricking stupid about things?
The real question is: why is Slott still around? Everyone seems to pretty much agree that his work has been bad for years and years, whatever great stories he had his name on were decades ago, and he consistently puts his foot in his mouth on social media. But he seems like he's got extreme job security, no worries about being kicked to the curb at all.
Are comics really in such a dire situation that he is irreplacable? There are no better options? This guy is the best they have?
he seems to get along with his bosses and while there have been conflicts with his coworkers, he seems to somehow slide his blubbering mass past that. He did also have a bunch of popular (let's not discuss whether or not they were good) Spidey storylines, which even normalgays and casuals seem to be aware of, if only through twitter/reddit posts. And it might also be as simple as him being willing to write a lot of stuff. It's an open secret that writing for ASM has become a death sentence, but he has the backing of having written for it years ago now (so he's not part of the current anger towards the series), so his side projects look good in comparison.
Just really a willingness to have a character develop or change over time, rather than rubber banding away any meaningful change. A willingness to have a beginning, middle, and eventually an end.
Berserk’s Guts has changed immensely over the decades. Hell, Invincible did away with a lot that I found bad about current comics because Mark kept growing and time kept passing.
ah, gotcha. They'll probably never go that route, but I don't see why they couldn't do what DC does (or did, I haven't been keeping up) and have more Elseworld style stories that don't rely on the decades of backstories for a reader to understand. Ultimate line was an attempt (imho not a very good one, but I won't get into that), but they kept going at it and are still trying to make it a thing what with Hickman bringing it back. There's been some other stuff as well, but relatively brief.
Spiderman would probably do very well if they hired some manga artists for it. Not telling their existing studio artists to draw 'manga style' like previous abominations, but artists that actually draw with the style and flow of manga. Spiderman's powerset lends itself extremely well to the way that manga conveys movement and action. It would be a huge hit.
I don't disagree, but lets temper our expectations. You could sell executives on an art style and pay layout change as a way to drum up money, but never on a fundamental writing change because thats where they shit out their ideas.
>That and Manga style writing.
what does that entail? Hopefully not Nip writers, who are hacks in other ways.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Just really a willingness to have a character develop or change over time, rather than rubber banding away any meaningful change. A willingness to have a beginning, middle, and eventually an end.
Berserk’s Guts has changed immensely over the decades. Hell, Invincible did away with a lot that I found bad about current comics because Mark kept growing and time kept passing.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>berserk and invincible
Gay normie taste. Cool.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The idea that comics shouldn't appeal to "normies" is a good way to ensure that they remain culturally irrelevant.
7 months ago
Anonymous
NTA, but I could see two possible answers to that question. Both of which could be seen as improvements.
At the bare minimum, there are a lot of longstanding manga story tropes and structures that are popular for a reason and do a lot of work. You don't have to copy manga 100% to learn from its successes and make some of its strengths your own, just don't be a moron and copy-paste shit thoughtlessly. This would just be superficial, though, since it doesn't really change anything meaningful its just comics being inspired by manga and most of them probably doing it wrong.
The other option is actual creator-driven works, where stories are helmed by a single guy or small group of people from start to finish and the story has a beginning, middle, and end and then its fricking DONE. No immediate reboots, no running forever on the sliding timeline treadmill. The good things end and stay good, the bad things end and are thankfully over.
This would be a much greater change for comics, and it will never happen because marvel and DC fundamentally oppose such thinking. Thats not how they work, and its not how they ever want to work.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Hell, look at Dragonball. You could have it run for decades, it’s still running right now. But you can’t say that the characters stayed static.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You can instead say Goku has regressed and is now a shell of his former self.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yes, but you could also say that about Spider-Man even more easily.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because Marvel and DC heroes are brands. They have no beginning, middle and end unless for a specific adaptation or AU. What you want doesn’t work for them.
7 months ago
Anonymous
The other option is just to do away with the illusion of continuity, because every time the writers change it’s basically a soft reboot. Just let every author treat their run and their version of the character as their own continuity, and stop these obnoxious crossover events.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Or do away with floppies. They’re too expensive for a measly 22 pages. Most people don’t have the disposable income to buy that shit. They’d prefer to pay their bills.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Raz0rfist said it best:
"...name an item more tempting to remove than a stack of monthly comics with a cover price creeping toward 5 dollars"
7 months ago
Anonymous
Problem with that is a current generation that belivee stories structures shouldnt be like this in any medium and genestion that grew up on comics thinking it would be the case.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ie the illusion of change is now making people passed across the big 2.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I agree, but I also think that they have reached the end of the power of their 'brands'. We are still in the midst of superheroes as the pop culture tentpole, and marvel and DC comics are still in the shitter. Trying to chase after the MCU's success has damn near killed WB, and if they go DC goes with it.
If the comics side of these franchises can barely stay afloat even when their IP is more popular than ever, what are the odds that they are going to be able to survive when the superhero bubble eventually deflates and they are no longer seen as a worthwhile investment?
Marvel and DC are not thriving. Claiming that they have always done things this way when its killing them is just waiting for death. They need to change their ways while they still have a window to bounce back. Adapt or die.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Dude, comics have had shit sales for decades now. The mainstream opinion is that it’s nerd shit. The average person will gladly watch a Spider-Man movie or play one of the games but wouldn’t be caught dead reading an overpriced comic.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Manga sales in the US are really good, and kind of show us that the biggest problem are the Big Two’s awful business models.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Manga’s a completely different beast compared to comics. You can’t replicate that shit here.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I call bullshit
7 months ago
Anonymous
It’s true. US manga publishers only reprint existing material from Japan of which were already previously collected in tankobon editions. Plus, most publishers are the US divisions of the original publishers, meaning they don’t need to pay a license to print them as they already own the titles. It’s all in-house.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I see
7 months ago
Anonymous
Cultural differences are at play here. Manga’s a big deal in Japan, while comics are a niche nerd thing stateside. Plus, manga are just reprints of already existing material from Japan. They’re cheap to make for that reason. Comics aren’t.
>they’re probably not willing to give the rest of Marvel’s catalogue a chance.
Truthfully when you have the best rogue gallery, iconic stories, striking costumes, supporting cast and a litany of movies and games. Why bother? You want people to see tony broke again? The xmen with another utopia that falls? Matt questioning his faith over and over? Frank lamenting on his life but contunine to kill while everyone dogs on him? Marc fighting vampires again? Steve feeling out of place and not belonging anywhere?
The problem with that line of thinking is that it implicitly assumes that only what has already been done with the characters matters. "Spiderman has the advantage of better writers already having done all of this work for me, so he's good. I'm not allowed to do new things with characters, spiderman or otherwise, only repeat their old stories forever with minor changes"
Its thinking like that which is killing comics. If you honestly can't think of new stories to tell or new directions to take a character, you *shouldn't be publishing them at all*. You should just retire them and start a new character with their own stories.
>You should just retire them and start a new character with their own stories
They are doing that with punisher and people aren't liking it. Miles has been trying to be pushed but people only care about Peter. Miles is hardly a spider themed hero anymore what with all the electric asspulls he's gotten and that he's the better spider-man because we say so. When you have a character that entrenched in comics along with being the only seller along with Batman, it isn't that easy. People will spout mayday but even she had problems selling back in the day and now that there is mutiple spider people out and about her shine wears off.
>Its thinking like that which is killing comics.
There is a whole lotta issues then just that which is killing comics
Because he can be incredibly mediocre and passive aggressive, but still get work because you don’t need to be a good writer to get ahead, and you need to be good at networking.
>frissy little homosexual walk because fat frick is so fricking fat he can't put one leg in front of the other without twisting his whole upper body >wearing a mask but refusing to groom or cut his disgusting germ ridden beard >chair collapses under his own weight the moment he sits down and spends a good few seconds trying to maintain balance, before giving up hope and just leaning back with the weight >all in front of applauding fans
This is just sad.
He's only correct if he means commercially. In that sense yeah, Spider-Man is as close to indestructible as you can get. But artistically, in an in-universe sense, his character has been ruined (corrupted like Anakin turned into Vader) and there's no way to fix it unless you literally erase the last almost 30 years of canon from existence. Not just remarry him, that wouldn't be enough, especially now with MJ having a de-facto husband and adopted kids
I’d argue his view of the IP is really short-sighted and self-centered. The IP will be fine, but it’s not at all a given that the comics will improve in quality, or that dinosaurs like Marvel and DC are eternal.
There’s already been lots of talk of DC getting shitcanned in the wake of all the Time/Warner shakeups. Disney has no reason to give a shit about Marvel comics once the MCU starts to flag, which looks to already be happening.
It’s really pretty naive to say and more likely the result of Slott’s inherent defensiveness combined with apathy and disdain for critics.
Can we stop saying Slott is in every Spider-Man thread? Seriously. If Slott was in this thread do you really think he'd make it that obvious? He's not (THAT) dumb, really. I think he'd know how to change up typing styles.
Can we stop saying Slott is in every Spider-Man thread? Seriously. If Slott was in this thread do you really think he'd make it that obvious? He's not (THAT) dumb, really. I think he'd know how to change up typing styles.
You can't actually be this fricking stupid. Btw, even if you did actually know how to change you type you'd still stick out like a prolapsed butthole. There's a kind bant or culture on this site the most posters abide too and when you come on here with a blatant agenda and a lack of lingo it's pretty easy to spot you. Don't feel bad tho, not even the cia can pull it off let alone a fat hack comic israelite.
You guys need to realize that trolls can try to impersonate creators in order to get a rise out of us. If the troll is not Dan then you're just giving them unwanted attention
You can't actually be this fricking stupid. Btw, even if you did actually know how to change you type you'd still stick out like a prolapsed butthole. There's a kind bant or culture on this site the most posters abide too and when you come on here with a blatant agenda and a lack of lingo it's pretty easy to spot you. Don't feel bad tho, not even the cia can pull it off let alone a fat hack comic israelite.
This butthole is really trying to fricking compare all the shit they're doing to Peter to the death of Gwen Stacy?
Literally what happened to her is better than what's going on with Peter. Peter's in a zombified state where he's never allowed to truly progress at even a miniscule rate. Look at Batman and Superman. Those two dudes have kids now. Yes, they haven't changed too much, but they still have had changes permanently done to them. Peter's still childless and not only is he childless, but the girl who he's so often depicted as ending up with is with another man.
What they did can't even be called ruination, it's just the ultimate stagnation and zombification of a character that they have no idea what to write about. In a world of capeshit where various characters return to the status quo and never change, Peter is the ultimate representation of this. Bruce Banner has changed a lot since his inception and you honestly don't even really see regular Savage Hulk too often these days. Even villains like Thanos have changed more than him. Hell, even fricking Eddie Brock, once his ultimate archnemesis, has changed ALOT more than him.
Is spider-man even attracting new people? Do kids like current comic spider-man? Because if the only people still reading are those who do it out of habit then shit is going to die as soon as they do.
Reminder Peter Parker was NEVER a good Spiderman. That's the key issue here. It wasn't until Miles and Gwen that the franchise found its footing in the popular consciousness.
I don't know who Dan Slott is. I hate cape shit and honestly this is part of the reason why. >you can't ruin a legacy character
I fricking hate these people. This past decade has done more damage to legacy characters than any others. You can't talk about Ariel or Snow White anymore without someone snickering or rolling their eyes. There's forever a "bad Disney Snow White" and "bad Disney Ariel" now that's just a stain on these characters legacy. Snow White is a little more timeless but Ariel is not exactly an old character.
All of comic cape shit, which I care next to nothing about before, is now unreadable. They've destroyed their readership and have no idea how to "cater to the queers and the blacks".
I think people should just stop caring about spider-man at all. if nothing matters because the next writter can frick it all again and again and again until infinite then why even care anymore, they can write Peter crying in a corner while MJ and Felicia are having sex in a interracial orgy in front of him and then say oh you should not be angry because the next writers can always fix everything (they won't) hahahah nothing matters.
at this point just find something else to enjoy, these people are cretins and they enjoy messing with fans.
I don't think you understand, people have mostly dropped the book. The only reason it's high on charts is mainly coming from people purchasing hard-to-get variants and other variants, that don't care what's in the book because they're buying for the cover
Isn't it better to let legacy characters rest for a bit, then start back up again? If people hate him so much, they need to just be working on their other characters rather than hatewriting Peter. Imagine if Spider-Man went to rest for a decade, then started back up again.
Fanboys while whine and b***h about everything. They are never happy for two minutes longer. Just look at how buttmad people over the Tombstone story because they can’t handle Spider-man losing temporarily
Yea the charcter has highs and lows but you get too low and it's impossible to bring it back up to that height and people move on to something else. Marvel already sold out and now the comics division has been on life support for decades, unless something changes soon people arent gonna care about the brand like they did and with writers like Dan working at marvel things are only gonna get alot worse before they start getting better.
Is Marvel full of people who still think it's the 00s and they can blame the readers while things are falling apart around them?
>People are trusting the comics media that've been around since the 00s less, or they're hollow shells of themselves >Retailers have been voicing complaints >Social Media amplifies their frickups whether fairly or unfairly >Creators double down and make it worse on social media >The old readers already hate them or bailed on them, and whatever new readers are starting to echo the complaints of the old readers
But WB, itself, is falling apart. DC can't die as long as WB keeps propping it up, but unless things turn around for WB soon they might go down and take DC with them. WB had to *sell HBO*, the service that made Game of Thrones, and its not even going to be called HBO anymore. Think about how dire their situation has to be for that to happen.
But
Yeah I'm guessing if dc collapses like idw is rn, it won't fair well for Marvel.
is right: given the current business model that both use, if either marvel or DC collapse then the other will follow soon after. Brick and mortar comic shops won't be able to survive if half of their business just evaporates overnight. They are barely keeping up as it is, they can't afford to have all of their DC titles just... stop. So if DC folds, the comic shops start going out of business within a year, and the Marvel is dead too because they have noplace left to sell their variant covers to. Barnes and Noble isn't going to stock fricking floppies.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sounds like a bright future.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Unironically it might be for the best. If either company folds and the brick and mortar stores go under, the remaining company will HAVE to come up with a new business model to survive. So either they die and the playing field is totally wiped clean for new business and comics and ideas to grow in, or the last man standing has to adapt into something thats not decades out of date and get with the times. A lot of the bad content in comics only gets a pass because the shittying business practices allow it. When you make your money on variant colors and your 25th "Issue #1" in the last 10 years, whats actually inside the book doesn't matter, only the speculator collector market matters. Kill the market, and suddenly books only sell if they are worth reading. What an idea.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I wasn't kidding. It's for the best, the current model is awful and cancerous. If it crumbles then you can rebuild and you won't have to deal with specialty shops, variant covers, capeshit dominating (and being dominated by crossovers) and all the hacks that keep hiring their hack friends would be gone.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I'm trying to think of what would replace the current comics industry if it collapsed. Indies would make their play, but I'm not sure if they would succeed without comic shops to promote themselves in. They want to inherit the kingdom, but if the brick and mortar stores go down there is nothing for them to inherit.
Given the rise in popularity for anime, I feel like an interesting experiment would be to poach some promising talent from Japan and just pay them better to do their thing in english for an American audience. There are enough unironic westaboos in manga (like the guy that does MHA) that giving them a chance to do their own thing as a 'comic' rather than a manga, in an art style of their choosing, would probably get some hits. Maybe its in black and white, maybe its in color. But there's probably a way that this works, especially if its not constrained by DC/Marvel business practices.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Indies would make their play, but I'm not sure if they would succeed without comic shops to promote themselves in.
Well comic book stores are already fricked. Their going to need to start shoving into the magazine sections or book sections of general merchandise retail stores but they already lack the funds to do that shit. The japs, koreans, and maybe chiese would probably take over since I see people buying that crap from Walmart, Target, and barnes and noble. Frick I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel(Disney) and DC(WB) start going even harder on whoring out their properties to the mangaka in the future.
DC dosn't make shit, even the movies are loss in millions. What make money is contract for lincencied products like Batman toy and shit. And WB don't need stories about Bruce cucking out of a mariage (but not really) and fighting his notwife for that.
>It's impossible to ruin/destroy a long-standing legacy character
Might be true but it is possible to make them have nothing but trash stories for decades.
Time for me to remind everyone that Spiderverse as it is may not exist, if it weren’t for Slott working on Zone Wars stories in the Archie Sonic comics many years before.
We've been over this multiple times. >TAS >all the Spider-Men are series' originals and outside of the clones are just "same Spider-Man whose life took a different turn at some point" even with the clones it was somewhat ambiguous whether Ben or Spider-Carnage was the real Spider-Man of his universe >Slott >"'MEMBER THE THING?" and "SPIDER-MAN BUT SOMETHING DUMB AND GOOFY/SPIDER-MAN BUT A GAY FEMALE CRIPPLE"
Unless your argument is "Slott is an uncreative frick who can only steal ideas and make them thousand times worse" in which case, yeah.
>Unless your argument is "Slott is an uncreative frick who can only steal ideas and make them thousand times worse" in which case, yeah.
Wait I thought Slott being a uncreative frick was the argument?
Fair enough. I'm just tired of people shitting on TAS for Slott retroactively ruining those episodes by making Multiverse cancerous so I just automatically jumped to its defense.
Don't get me started, I fricking hate how bandwagon-jumping midwit npcs claim the multiverse was always bad just because of bad shit like the comic Spider-Verse or Marvel Phase 4
Let me put it this way.
Unless the words out of his mouth sound something like "I'm Dan Slott and I'm a moronic fat frick who should kill myself", nothing Slott ever says is right.
peter gets sidelined and emasculated for lefty white men bashing reason in everything he stars.
for me at least the franchise is destroyed because i can’t see us ever getting a spidey story every again were he is still written as the real hero of the story
>lol why do you get mad at stupid plot developments it gets undone anyways
He's just now at that phase of the cope? He needs to hurry to the "literally none of this matters, don't bother getting invested" stage that most the readers are at.
He's making a case for Marvel consistently fricking up...
Also, how long does one put up with all that bullshit before just dropping a comic? Tubby should just stuff another bagel in his mouth and shut the frick up.
Gwen Stacy's death as an adult moment for Peter, not a regression. The Clone saga sought to replace Peter for another Spider-Man who would literally be made of the same stuff and they wisely backtracked it.
One more day was some DC comics bullshit. I love DC. But they magically reboot characters and erase past stories with both abandon little in the way of writing skill. One more day regressed Peter and erased THE, NOT ONE BUT THE most storied relationship in comics, more so than Lois and Clark. Spider-Man got married in multiple media simultaneously, it was an NYC event. So many plots involved their relationship, it was the natural sucession in real world issues Spider-Man had to deal with.
Slott is being disingenuous because he is hated. And he empathizes with other writers being hated.
The Lois and Clark shit during N52 was so fricking bad that they literally killed both so OG Clark and Lois could live on.
And everyone hated how cold and edgy N52 Superman was and how much of a b***h Lois was.
So this was another WIN for Johns and the Heat which was sabotaged after they booted him out to the movie department by the OMD and DiDio Lee gang
>One more day was some DC comics bullshit.
I remember hearing that originally WAS a plan for Superman, involving Mr. Mxyzpltzx.
That's how bad things got in comics.
>I’ve read a few speculations over the years about how we were going to use that proposal to end the Supeman/Lois Lane marriage. In fact that was actually something we decided we didn’t want to do. I remember Mark Waid and the guys and all of us sitting around thinking of ways to end the Superman marriage – and we talked about it for a long time, and we got to where we were talking about things like “memory molecules,” and we finally said, “This is ridiculous! The only way to do this is to keep the marriage and make it work!”
>It was the only thing we could do with what I still think was a bad idea. The marriage damaged the dynamic of Superman comics quite severely, but if we broke up the relationship of these two great fictional lovers, Superman would immediately seem ineffectual and ultimately beaten by his foes, walking around for the rest of his life not knowing Lois was ever his wife or whatever.
>So we opted to keep Lois Lane and the marriage intact. It’s kind of an interesting reflection of what recently happened in Spider-Man, where they did choose to magically unmarry the hero to predictable howls of protest. Then again, I actually think they’ll be able to make that one work if they just grit their teeth for a couple of years until the new status quo becomes accepted, so who knows?
"Couple of years" was optimistic.
New 52 was a reset that only allowed for 5 years of history, so it made sense to reset the marriage. The only reason Batman didn't get reset is because they didn't want to ruin Morrison's well-selling run even though the timeline no longer made sense.
This is always the problem with these reboots and resets: they never fricking COMMIT to them. They always make exceptions for their pet projects, which create gaps and confusion in the new timeline and later get taken as a free pass by other writers to rescue THEIR favorite bit of old continuity from the fire, and within a few years you are right back where you started but its even more convoluted than last time.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Good thing then after Death Metal they've decided that continuity doesn't matter anymore and writers are free to pick and choose whichever stories they want to acknowledge as long as a run is consistent with itself.
7 months ago
Anonymous
That's definitely going on in Green Lantern right now. A shitload of lanterns died and John was made a guardian last run. All of a sudden now, John is still a guardian, but Hal is now not a lantern any longer without explanation, the dead lanterns seem to be not dead in crossover stuff without explanation. Sinestro was leader of the sinestro Corps last run, now he is some powerless hobo. No one knows what the frick is happening and we are like 6 months into it.
The current run is kinda using stuff from lat run and kinda not. But no one is bothering to come out and say what is and isn't canon now.
7 months ago
Anonymous
That’s moronic. Who the frick thought THAT was a good idea?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Scott Snyder and the current DC administration and it's the right approach. There has never been a good "fix" story. They got it right back in DC's silver age, there's no point getting bent out of shape over inconsistencies or trying to explain them away. Just tell entertaining stories.
That was DilDio talking? That would explain how wrong he was.
[...] >This is always the problem with these reboots and resets: they never fricking COMMIT to them.
Wouldn't have worked regardless.
That was DilDio talking? That would explain how wrong he was.
This is always the problem with these reboots and resets: they never fricking COMMIT to them. They always make exceptions for their pet projects, which create gaps and confusion in the new timeline and later get taken as a free pass by other writers to rescue THEIR favorite bit of old continuity from the fire, and within a few years you are right back where you started but its even more convoluted than last time.
>This is always the problem with these reboots and resets: they never fricking COMMIT to them.
Wouldn't have worked regardless.
Probably not, but there would have at least been some point to it all if the individual slices of the reboot timeline were at least of a distinct continuity. As is, they do all of this buildup and work and changes and even their own writers don't seem to be clear on what the point of it all was because it only made things more confusing.
The change that came with the original Crises on Infinite Earths wasn't perfect, but it was at least 50% coherent. Every reboot since then has been worse.
Crisis was pretty much the same. Batman and Teen Titans kept most of their history intact with a few after-the-fact retcons to Batman because they were DC's best sellers, characters like Hawkman really got screwed over. With Flashpoint it was Green Lantern instead of Titans.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>With Flashpoint it was Green Lantern instead of Titans.
Glad they at least let Johns finish his run, it was at a high point. I think as soon as the War of the Lanterns ended, though, Nu2 kicked in. Or maybe not, the beginning of the next arc was confusing.
>Should we stop complaining about Marvel ruining Spider-Man?
Yes, if only because we should have learned as a society not to give any fricks about Spider-Man or any d*sney owned property at this point.
Doesn't that mean guaranteed 6-7 years of unreadable garbage and people not wanting to buy the book at all because some writer has a fetish for torturing and ruining fictional characters though?
I can't really see the economic reasons for specifically not writing anything anyone wants to read and turn away potential customers for some undetermined amount of time like this. What kind of sales plan is this? How does this help sales?
Dan Slott here. I fricking hate all of you. I’m trying my hardest to Ruin Spider-Man but you kids keep crying to Marvel that my changes are stupid.
Well guess what?
Paul is here to stay and he’s actually a Peter from the future, so expect him to take back over as Spidey and this Peter Dorker to take the backseat once again.
No because even though Spider-Man has survived bad stories before and will continue to into the future that doesn't make the bad stories good or immune to critique. If Spider-Man is being written poorly in your opinion, you should voice that opinion.
Stop reading marvel for just six months and you will get everything you ever wanted and more out of them. If you can't do that stop b***hing and keep reading. Simple as that.
Doesn't work like that, Danny boy. Companies were all too happy to utilize fan engagement to boost sales. Encouraging social media presence, encouraging people to like, link, subscribe, whatever to spread their love of the shiny products that were sold. Companies kept pushing and pushing to people the notion of upholding the duty of spreading the good word, in order to support products they like (in this case comics) with the promise that support will lead to bigger sales and thus companies will make more of the thing people supported.
Well.
People realized that if they can be used to spread the good word to support stuff they want, they can also spread the bad word to hold back stuff they dislike.
No.
Using the excuse that someone else will work on a character later doesn't excuse bad writing. Hell it makes it even worse because you're telling the customers that nothing matters because you as the writers can do anything you want. So why would they bother?
Spider-man is a moronic character with an awful fanbase. The fact that they still buy his crappy comics and keep him a best seller, the fact that they ate up three reboots in only 20 years for live action, the fact that they bought a glorified dlc at a regular full game price is proof of this. You get what you fricking deserve.
I love when Marvel employees get so assmad they make posts like this
You know you're winning when they start calling characters moronic and the fanbase awful
I'm shitting on you, the character and the company and that's all your assblasted self sees? Ha.
>Marvel employee even more assmad at the truth
kek
I'm sitting here wondering why you think this is clever and then I remember marvel employees actually do shit on your face on a daily basis. You deserve it, that's what I think, of you eat shit you're gonna taste shit. Pathethic battered housewives.
>battered housewives
Embarrassing
People into Spider-Man don't play Insomniac games. Also, it underperformed severely on launch despite being the only PS5 game available, as Miles did his own thang (flop).
>, it underperformed severely
I wish. The game's a 6.5 at best.
Honestly Miles was fine, I liked what they did with this iteration, I like how Prowler is more anti-hero and I like how the conflict in his game was still big but not enough to detract from the scale of the threats Peter faced while still trying to keep the personal element to it. Plus they give all the venom stuff a nice punch to make up for him not having suit powers like Peter.
Challenges can frick themselves, at least in the original you didn't need Ultimate rank to finish them but the final traversal challenge in Miles alone made me never want to replay the game from scratch.
Well to be fair, it was a glorified dlc campaign being sold as a full priced game.
When spiderman fans call the taliban then you can call us toxic kek
Spider-Man is Marvel’s Batman.
He even has his own terrible Bat-Family .
And two of those are from other universes
I've seen batgays reject Gotham Knights while spideygays are up Miles. I've seen the newest Batman movie underperform while the Spider-sodomite movies continue to make bank in spite of all the horrible decisions they've made. I've seen the ongoing Batman run fall in sales under King and he got kicked off while Spider-man continues to sit at the top despite a decade of Slott.
Well actually batman outsells spiderman rn.
Because the current run isn't nearly as hated as the current Spider-man run.
He's a fine generic capeshit character. He's not going away and Miles is trash.
They've already tried that and it failed. They just need to properly reboot him in his own universe. No Miles, No Spider-Gwens, no Spiderverse and genderswaps. Just no more.
My favorite time on Cinemaphile was when Superior was running. Petercucks were so fricking mad. Zoomers will never know the glory.
THE DIE IS CAST
I think we should kill Spider-man.
>It's impossible to ruin/destroy a long-standing legacy character
>But I'm gonna try as hard as I can
See Star Wars
I'm still fricking mad about Luke, like holy shit the Black folk in charge didn't even get the 3 OGs together in the same scene, how in the frick were they that moronic I legit went from a fricking Star Wars mark that bought a ton of the games, comics and toys to someone that has not even so much as looked at the franchise since Last Jedi. The only news I heard was that McGregor got to star in an Obi-Wan series and that's cool for him since he's a great actor. Am I watching it or anything else Wars related? Frick no.
What I'm getting at through all that is Slott is wrong, you can only frick up a character for so long before even its diehard enjoyers will move on to different shit, and you're not going to attract new readers by your product being garbage neither
Hey Slott but what if a character I like hasn't existed for 50 years? Can I complain then?
>anything that displeases you can be hand-waved away down the road
>meanwhile, Joe Quesada: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SPIDER-MAN CAN'T BE MARRIED BECAUSE I GOT A DIVORCE I'M GOING TO HANDPICK AN EDITORIAL TEAM TO MAKE SURE SPIDER-MAN NEVER GETS MARRIED AGAIN FOR AS LONG AS I AND THE REST OF MY MINIONS ARE ALIVE
Has anybody tried to just fix him up with someone new?
Yes theres been like over 10 attempts now, and each one sucked.
oh, I thought you were talking about quesada
They did. It didn't work because no one could make it convincing
Partly because they think Spider-Man's relationships should be frivolous side jokes/drama rather than happen naturally
Sad part is how less original they are getting, this new chick michele is legit a clone of the same chick from BND.
>Just not Latina thats it rn
Plus they erased the last one after 20 years there's no reason to care
Is it me or do these posts seem like they written by Slott:
I don’t know about Wally, but Kyle Rayner was in a terrible place before Geoff and Tomasi brought Hal back, why by the way, people wanted back for years because of the sad state of the GL following Emerald Twilight. Also
>John Stewart
Absolutely nobody but Timmgays like that character. His solo stories are always terrible.
If they weren't getting ruined every single time then why does this stuff always need a run after that tries to salvage things? If fans didn't speak up we'd probably get a run where Peter is killed by Paul who just so happens to get spider powers too so Paul can take up the Spider-Man mantle while Peter dies a cuck turned into a villain by asspullery. If course correction is needed then you've fricked up, if you need your A-Team on standby to essentially save a comic run then you've fricked up. This isn't rocket science
Spidergays delusional fantasies are always wild to read. Truly they are one of the most autistic poster groups on Cinemaphile.
Looks like typical Marvel Employee gaslighting technique:
>call a fanbase a "gay" ("Spidergays", "X-gays")
>claim they're delusional
>call them autistic
nta but X-gays are autistic
Have they called the taliban
No because they're also homosexuals and the taliban would hate them
they don't whine on Cinemaphile. the only people who hate current x-men are people who always hated x-men
Them not hating current X-Men is what makes them autistic
>If they weren't getting ruined every single time then why does this stuff always need a run after that tries to salvage things?
This. Every time they have to backpedal in-universe on some decision they doubled down on, but ultimately never had the option to stick to, it just makes these desperate attempts to change status quo feel more like pointless clickbait. After a while you stop caring. I was already disillusioned around the time Doc Oc took over Peter's body and Cap went Hydra. Even when I LIKE the change up, like Hulk having Devil Hulk in the driver's seat for a while, I know if it's too drastic of a change it will ultimately be undone by editorial that puts the legacy of the character before everything.
Is this a shitty thread? Should mods start banning Twatter screencap OPs?
Why would anyone do that?
They should ban the spider schizos
Dan Slott here. AMA. Picrel for proof, along with timestamp.
Why can't you get anyone to care about you being here when they're already talking about you?
Slott is just an ass person in general who insulates himself as some modern godfather of spiderman. He's prob the least humble writer and just tries to protrude a fake nice guy act online, when he's just really a vicious little spiderman fan like everyone else is.
>The ego on him is outstanding at times.
He's right. Spider-Man is a property that will never fricking end as long as it prints money. This applies to other franchises. Just enjoy what you like because something that will exist for a long time will eventually have crap be made out of it. As long as the original exists who gives a shit.
Nah because it's just him covering critique for the toybox mentality.
No
>Is Dan Slott right?
No. Didn't read btw.
Yes. Dan is 110% correct. And Cinemaphile will ignore him because of butthurt
Dan is a co poster himself to exalt his own virtues
Slott could be anyone of us
No, Anon, I can see my dick without putting a mirror on the floor.
Didn't someone edited in?
I remember days before Amazing Spider-Man 700 there was a thread for people to post their theories on who the "superior" spider-man was and one random anon who nobody replied to said it was doc ock that had mind switched with peter and left him to die in his body while living on in his place and in his body. I remember because i read it and thought "hah that's some wild fanfic shit" and then boom sure enough that Wednesday. Had to have been slott
It's no secret that comic people come here and Marvel employees have definitely been here before. Bendis' Civil War II was leaked on Cinemaphile by a Marvel intern and it was all the same shit that ended up coming out except back then Ulysses name was Homer.
Mel got to skip a kinda crappy Mad Max movie, at least.
>it was crap because...shut up!
hating popular things doesn't make you an interesting person!
>dont criticize COOOOOSOOM! You are a hater!!
Lmao.
Based.
Don't listen to that other homosexual, Fury Road is garbage and the fact that all this idiot could shit out is "muh popular" proves it.
Hi Dan!
Me looks at jon kent aged up.
I hate being the devils advocate but Jon is a new character. Spidey is an old one.
Oh yeah i guess he's referring to old characters, but let's be real this mentality is for any character.
Old characters get reset. New ones always get fricked unless they're super popular or have a dedicated fan base (see spider girl)
Not the same thing at all
Hawkman is a legacy character and I'd say he has been ruined.
He is kinda right in the sense that comic books retcon shit all the time. So any storyline, good for bad, is ultimately meaningless since everything can be erased and re-started.
Its not "meaningless" if it takes two, ten or twenty years for anything to get fixed, if at all.
"Why can't you just eat garbage with the same brand as your usual food for a few years?"
Yeah, but at the same time I don't think that is an open invitation to just frick things up and antagonize the readers, then basically get to work telling to quit their b***hing on twitter.
Marvel employees seem to really come off like those grudging angry nerds that reach some kind of middle management position at Best buy or Target and then think of themselves as all power and finally they are the authority that people have to follow and deal with, getting their weird psycho revenge for being picked on in school.
This is like telling customers "don't buy the book, come back in a decade and maybe it'll be fixed" which I'm sure is great for customers because they can drop every Marvel book and go over to manga while retailers get pissed and have to rely on variant shit to pay the bills
More or less don't talk shit about the book, he just wants an environment with only praise for the books.
I don't believe his claim that you can't ruin a character but even if true that's not an excuse to just write whatever garbage you want with the hope that someone else will fix it eventually. Especially if you are a fat parasite who refuses to leave the franchise after years. I mean he did actively ruin a decade of comics.
He's right but only in the sense that marriage-fans need to get on with their lives. It's been 15 years, move on, enjoy the decades of Spider-Man before they scarred the character with demonic deals and pick up different new books.
How they gonna do that when they barely attract new fans to the comics, industrys been shrinking since the 90's and their stuck with the toxic fanbase that they created.
> Even if you don't want the marriage to come back, he more or less wants to cultivate a message that writers are excused from bad writing.
>industrys been shrinking since the 90's
Marvel's lowest sales were in the late 90s/early 00s, they're still better off now than they were back then. They'll figure things out or they'll go out of business, same deal as it's always been. They decided long ago that catering exclusively to middle aged readers isn't the way to go. DC did that for a while in the 00s, then they switched gears and copied the Marvel plan.
>Marvel's lowest sales were in the late 90s/early 00s, they're still better off now than they were back then.
How do we really know for sure? We know late 90s/early 00s were really low but even back then Marvel still had like two or three titles doing 100,000 orders
late 2010/early 2011 was way worse than late 90s/early 00s because at one point there was no title doing 100,000 orders.
>Going by perch, back in last december no marvel title sold above 80k.
>The push of variants and price points etc.
>They had like a 10% boom of covid money for a few months that has dried up & the trajectory seems to be trending down for retailers
2001 was the nadir with 62 million issues sold that year. 2010 was 69 million which wasn't much better, but not as bad as 2001.
Whats 2020 then, or are they only counting sales to retailers?
No one knows anymore now that the Diamond monopoly has ended.
Through variant pushes just like the 90's.
>They'll figure things out or they'll go out of business, same deal as it's always been.
Counterpoint: marvel is sustained by Disney
Counterpoint: Disney is having serious problems of their own now.
lol, obvious Marvel employee saying this
>It's been 15 years, move on,
You have to be either massively dumb or a shill or both to think that's how Marvel comics work
>industry where part of the selling point is in referencing the past
>industry where people reference things from 15 years ago or more, complaining about people upset about something 15 years ago
>OMD upends major storytelling points of Spider-Man
>the readership doesn't believe in any love interest he gets will be anything important
>Aunt May can't be in any danger because then they'd remind the readers of OMD intentionally or unintentionally
I got news for you, people in their early 20s now are starting to shit on OMD.
Bear in mind, people in their 20s now, would been born in late 90s or early 00s and were the audience that Marvel thought they'd bring in by doing OMD.
Man i would love a demographic on spiderman rn, i guarantee it would be skewed on the older side now.
It probably would, which would be a failure on Marvel's part since they claimed they needed an unmarried Spider-Man to bring in new readers
I was born in 1999 and read spiderman comics and trades as a kid (my other favorite was Runaways) and didn't even know what OMD was for a long time. My favorites were the newspaper tpb's and once I got old enough to understand what was and wasn't in continuity and the implications of OMD I grew to hate modern spiderman comics even though I didn't have a problem with them when I was ignorant because I realized that OMD stalled out the progression in Peter's story. I dont purchase spider man comics any more and haven't in years. I'm a nerdy zoomer who just got my first well paying tech job and suddenly have more disposable income than I really know what to do with, childhood fan, I'm the fricking platonic form of the target demographic and they lost me anyways
It's just better to read old comics and made until 2005s
Back issue sales up more and on the rise.
>HMMM I wonder why?
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/comic-store-in-your-future-is-this-business-or-craziness/
>Back issues are red-hot sellers. People want to buy comics. I bought an Amazing Spider-Man collection from the 70s and 80s a few weeks ago, and those are flying out the door almost as fast as I can get them priced.
>I wish we could get more Iron Man and Hulk issues into the comic store from the 70s and 80s. We have customers who want them. They move on in a hurry if and when I manage to get more in.
>New comic sales here in the comic store are increasingly slowing down. The recent death of Ms Marvel in Amazing Spider-Man was not a big deal at the store. A few people picked it up just for the death, though not many. I over-ordered it.
>The latest issues of Iron Man and Hulk are low sellers. The characters have fans, but few are interested in their latest adventures.
>He's right but only in the sense that marriage-fans need to get on with their lives. It's been 15 years, move on,
Wasn't OMD done because people who couldn't get over Spider-Man being married for 20 years, couldn't move on?
They had the power to do something about it.
It’s exactly this, for all of this b***hing we’ve heard from BOTH marvel and DC about the reaction to editorial decisions they’ve made telling us “you just want these characters to be like they were when you were 15” they never seem to realize that they all just tried to turn these comics and their characters back to a point they were at when THEY were 15.
Dan Didio’s biggest problem is that he would basically make horrific editorial decisions for the sake of his nostalgia.
Which is why Wally West was screwed left and right.
Just like quesadilla
>he would basically make horrific editorial decisions for the sake of his nostalgia.
Not true at all. Dan’s point was always that wtf are you not using your ironic characters and IPs that people in mainstream know. People know about Teen Titans, so why is it full of nobodies while all the real iconic TT characters are in shit like Young Justice or not appearing anywhere at all. And it’s a valid point. The only reason people get angry at Dan is because they’re fanboys and go “BUT I LIKE YOUNG JUSTICE!!”, not understanding that if you replaced the original YJ crew with random nobodies they would hate it. It’s why people don’t like most new Thunderbolts series when the original crew isn’t around.
And the reason Hal and Barry are back is because it sold tons of comics and there was a big amount of older fans who wanted them back, and it’s a fact that someone like Flash can’t really carry multiple books and Wally basically is redundant as an adult to be around when Barry is back, so that was why he was sidelined for a time. There often isn’t much room for every legacy character.
>Dan Didio’s biggest problem is that he would basically make horrific editorial decisions for the sake of his nostalgia.
Not true at all, but not because of whatever the frick this guy
thinks it is.
For you, he's always chasing his idea of what's "cool", ignoring how often that's the opposite of what his audience thinks.
He admittedly tried to copy whatever the hell Marvel was doing... except he managed to copy everything they were doing WRONG, and somehow making it twice as moronic, at least.
Yep
Pretty much. And like everything it will happen again.
I was a kid when one more day happen. Even I knew it was a shit story. Back in black was neat though.
>Back in black was neat though
Black Suit Spidey is always cool.
friendly reminder Danny boy spent the last two Spidey threads coping, seething and getting BTFO
FATT SLOBB is desperate for (you)
>Is Dan Slott right?
Not really. OMD and the current run have really fricked things
>Should we stop complaining about Marvel ruining Spider-Man?
Nah. And to be honest I didn't buy the current run or half post band new day shit.
>Whatever happens can be hand-waved down the line.
That’s not how storytelling works, fatfrick. How can Cinemaphile say with a straight face say that capeshit stories matter?
Slott doesn't speak for us
But that's exactly what Wells did to Slott's Gwen story in The Clone Conspiracy when he did his Judgment Day tie-in and what Slott himself did with Sins Past in that same story. The dimwitted move to to pull a Spencer and devote your entire run to retconning some bad old story no one cares about anymore in a way that fails to be entertaining or comprehensible.
Marvel and DC feel like collections of fanfic idiots fighting each other all the time publicly through their works. Hentai artists have more claim to the word “writer” than these chucklefricks.
It's how comics work. Shit gets retconned and rebooted whenever. None of it matters.
Nothing is indestructible. Certainly not a character's popularity. The fact that Spiderman's popularity endures in pop culture due to secondary materials like movies and games does not mean that spider man comics cannot be awful or that a sufficiently bad string of runs cannot taint the character.
Superman is a much older character than spiderman, and the majority of pop culture discourse around Superman is "Why does Superman suck so much?" Clearly his popularity is not bulletproof, even though DC literally will never stop printing more superman because he is their brand face.
Dan is 100 right but not destroying is way different then having a character live up to their full potential.
I really wish Spide Man fans weren't the stupidest frickers in the world because the books right now are really bad, but they have no way to get that point across to the people who make the comics besides screeching.
It’s selling well compared to everything else Marvel is putting out, but that’s only by comparison. Neither Marvel nor DC are in good places market-wise, and the fact is that most people realize Spider-Man sucks, but given that most people read Spider-man…
They’re probably not willing to give the rest of Marvel’s catalogue a chance. If the flagship product is bad, it just chokes out the rest of the books.
A mix of speculator collectors and completionists tbh, a lot of them are carrying this industry as of rn.
yea I guess thats what I was saying about not living up to its full potential. Marvel tends to hide behind how much the book sells by going well why is it still one of the best selling books on the market.
Its because its says spider man. It could be selling as well as some manga if it was good and they sold it better.
Manga sales prove the medium is sound and there is interest: instead Marvel and DC are married to bad creative and business practices that hurt profitability and outreach immensely.
People like Dan Slott are just symptoms of the overall rot. Getting in the face of your customers and telling them that if they don’t like it they should just get back issues only and write fanfic is deeply unprofessional and stupid suggestions when retailers are suffering. But Slott doesn’t care, nobody cares. Dying business and dying company, Disney will pump money into them until the MCU dies.
But that may be sooner than they’re expecting.
The real question is: why is Slott still around? Everyone seems to pretty much agree that his work has been bad for years and years, whatever great stories he had his name on were decades ago, and he consistently puts his foot in his mouth on social media. But he seems like he's got extreme job security, no worries about being kicked to the curb at all.
Are comics really in such a dire situation that he is irreplacable? There are no better options? This guy is the best they have?
He’s not irreplaceable. Nobody is irreplaceable.
But he has friends and connections.
This... he never really sold spiderman spiderman sold him.
he seems to get along with his bosses and while there have been conflicts with his coworkers, he seems to somehow slide his blubbering mass past that. He did also have a bunch of popular (let's not discuss whether or not they were good) Spidey storylines, which even normalgays and casuals seem to be aware of, if only through twitter/reddit posts. And it might also be as simple as him being willing to write a lot of stuff. It's an open secret that writing for ASM has become a death sentence, but he has the backing of having written for it years ago now (so he's not part of the current anger towards the series), so his side projects look good in comparison.
ah, gotcha. They'll probably never go that route, but I don't see why they couldn't do what DC does (or did, I haven't been keeping up) and have more Elseworld style stories that don't rely on the decades of backstories for a reader to understand. Ultimate line was an attempt (imho not a very good one, but I won't get into that), but they kept going at it and are still trying to make it a thing what with Hickman bringing it back. There's been some other stuff as well, but relatively brief.
He is part of the "chosen tribe"
Spiderman would probably do very well if they hired some manga artists for it. Not telling their existing studio artists to draw 'manga style' like previous abominations, but artists that actually draw with the style and flow of manga. Spiderman's powerset lends itself extremely well to the way that manga conveys movement and action. It would be a huge hit.
That and Manga style writing.
Fake Red was the best book we had in a while. Though admittedly anything is welcome after a 1.5 year long arc about Zebedia Wells’s cuckold fetish
> That and Manga style writing.
I don't disagree, but lets temper our expectations. You could sell executives on an art style and pay layout change as a way to drum up money, but never on a fundamental writing change because thats where they shit out their ideas.
>That and Manga style writing.
what does that entail? Hopefully not Nip writers, who are hacks in other ways.
Just really a willingness to have a character develop or change over time, rather than rubber banding away any meaningful change. A willingness to have a beginning, middle, and eventually an end.
Berserk’s Guts has changed immensely over the decades. Hell, Invincible did away with a lot that I found bad about current comics because Mark kept growing and time kept passing.
>berserk and invincible
Gay normie taste. Cool.
The idea that comics shouldn't appeal to "normies" is a good way to ensure that they remain culturally irrelevant.
NTA, but I could see two possible answers to that question. Both of which could be seen as improvements.
At the bare minimum, there are a lot of longstanding manga story tropes and structures that are popular for a reason and do a lot of work. You don't have to copy manga 100% to learn from its successes and make some of its strengths your own, just don't be a moron and copy-paste shit thoughtlessly. This would just be superficial, though, since it doesn't really change anything meaningful its just comics being inspired by manga and most of them probably doing it wrong.
The other option is actual creator-driven works, where stories are helmed by a single guy or small group of people from start to finish and the story has a beginning, middle, and end and then its fricking DONE. No immediate reboots, no running forever on the sliding timeline treadmill. The good things end and stay good, the bad things end and are thankfully over.
This would be a much greater change for comics, and it will never happen because marvel and DC fundamentally oppose such thinking. Thats not how they work, and its not how they ever want to work.
Hell, look at Dragonball. You could have it run for decades, it’s still running right now. But you can’t say that the characters stayed static.
You can instead say Goku has regressed and is now a shell of his former self.
Yes, but you could also say that about Spider-Man even more easily.
Because Marvel and DC heroes are brands. They have no beginning, middle and end unless for a specific adaptation or AU. What you want doesn’t work for them.
The other option is just to do away with the illusion of continuity, because every time the writers change it’s basically a soft reboot. Just let every author treat their run and their version of the character as their own continuity, and stop these obnoxious crossover events.
Or do away with floppies. They’re too expensive for a measly 22 pages. Most people don’t have the disposable income to buy that shit. They’d prefer to pay their bills.
Raz0rfist said it best:
"...name an item more tempting to remove than a stack of monthly comics with a cover price creeping toward 5 dollars"
Problem with that is a current generation that belivee stories structures shouldnt be like this in any medium and genestion that grew up on comics thinking it would be the case.
Ie the illusion of change is now making people passed across the big 2.
I agree, but I also think that they have reached the end of the power of their 'brands'. We are still in the midst of superheroes as the pop culture tentpole, and marvel and DC comics are still in the shitter. Trying to chase after the MCU's success has damn near killed WB, and if they go DC goes with it.
If the comics side of these franchises can barely stay afloat even when their IP is more popular than ever, what are the odds that they are going to be able to survive when the superhero bubble eventually deflates and they are no longer seen as a worthwhile investment?
Marvel and DC are not thriving. Claiming that they have always done things this way when its killing them is just waiting for death. They need to change their ways while they still have a window to bounce back. Adapt or die.
Dude, comics have had shit sales for decades now. The mainstream opinion is that it’s nerd shit. The average person will gladly watch a Spider-Man movie or play one of the games but wouldn’t be caught dead reading an overpriced comic.
Manga sales in the US are really good, and kind of show us that the biggest problem are the Big Two’s awful business models.
Manga’s a completely different beast compared to comics. You can’t replicate that shit here.
I call bullshit
It’s true. US manga publishers only reprint existing material from Japan of which were already previously collected in tankobon editions. Plus, most publishers are the US divisions of the original publishers, meaning they don’t need to pay a license to print them as they already own the titles. It’s all in-house.
I see
Cultural differences are at play here. Manga’s a big deal in Japan, while comics are a niche nerd thing stateside. Plus, manga are just reprints of already existing material from Japan. They’re cheap to make for that reason. Comics aren’t.
Fake Red didn’t star Peter Parker. That was the problem. Why make a Spider-Manga if you’re not gonna use the actual character in it?
Marvel probably wouldn’t let them, is the most likely explanation.
Then what’s the point?
It sold well with US audiences and critically well received. So clearly the Japanese are doing something better than the Big Two and their burnouts.
It got cancelled though.
Spider-Man manga from the 70's kinda blows writing wise, art great though also not Peter however also no hyphen shame on you.
>they’re probably not willing to give the rest of Marvel’s catalogue a chance.
Truthfully when you have the best rogue gallery, iconic stories, striking costumes, supporting cast and a litany of movies and games. Why bother? You want people to see tony broke again? The xmen with another utopia that falls? Matt questioning his faith over and over? Frank lamenting on his life but contunine to kill while everyone dogs on him? Marc fighting vampires again? Steve feeling out of place and not belonging anywhere?
The problem with that line of thinking is that it implicitly assumes that only what has already been done with the characters matters. "Spiderman has the advantage of better writers already having done all of this work for me, so he's good. I'm not allowed to do new things with characters, spiderman or otherwise, only repeat their old stories forever with minor changes"
Its thinking like that which is killing comics. If you honestly can't think of new stories to tell or new directions to take a character, you *shouldn't be publishing them at all*. You should just retire them and start a new character with their own stories.
>You should just retire them and start a new character with their own stories
They are doing that with punisher and people aren't liking it. Miles has been trying to be pushed but people only care about Peter. Miles is hardly a spider themed hero anymore what with all the electric asspulls he's gotten and that he's the better spider-man because we say so. When you have a character that entrenched in comics along with being the only seller along with Batman, it isn't that easy. People will spout mayday but even she had problems selling back in the day and now that there is mutiple spider people out and about her shine wears off.
>Its thinking like that which is killing comics.
There is a whole lotta issues then just that which is killing comics
Is it better or worse than contacting the taliban?
>Whatever storyline displeases you can be hand waved away
Then why hasn't OMD been undone?
Also
>It's fine to put out trash people don't like because I can point at other storylines people didn't like
All you've proven is that Marvel consistently puts out shit stories and banks on Spider-Mans name to carry it
>It's okay I can shit in Peter's mouth and a retcon one to twenty years from now will undo it
Is this seriously the argument you all are defending?
And these same people wonder why they are losing sales to manga left and right.
Never stop your enemies when they are making a mistake. Enjoy the train wreck.
>anything that displeases you can be hand-waved away down the road
Go ahead and try.
Why is Slott so wilfully fricking stupid about things?
Because he can be incredibly mediocre and passive aggressive, but still get work because you don’t need to be a good writer to get ahead, and you need to be good at networking.
How fat do you have to get before it makes your walk as gay as Dan’s?
You have to hit at least 350, he walks like my mom used to
My 360 pound grandma walks more like a man than Slott
>frissy little homosexual walk because fat frick is so fricking fat he can't put one leg in front of the other without twisting his whole upper body
>wearing a mask but refusing to groom or cut his disgusting germ ridden beard
>chair collapses under his own weight the moment he sits down and spends a good few seconds trying to maintain balance, before giving up hope and just leaning back with the weight
>all in front of applauding fans
This is just sad.
>Everyone should stop complaining about the rape.
at what point it become acceptable to dismiss any kind of criticism?
Never especially if your slott, ego so large it lives in his gut.
He's only correct if he means commercially. In that sense yeah, Spider-Man is as close to indestructible as you can get. But artistically, in an in-universe sense, his character has been ruined (corrupted like Anakin turned into Vader) and there's no way to fix it unless you literally erase the last almost 30 years of canon from existence. Not just remarry him, that wouldn't be enough, especially now with MJ having a de-facto husband and adopted kids
I’d argue his view of the IP is really short-sighted and self-centered. The IP will be fine, but it’s not at all a given that the comics will improve in quality, or that dinosaurs like Marvel and DC are eternal.
There’s already been lots of talk of DC getting shitcanned in the wake of all the Time/Warner shakeups. Disney has no reason to give a shit about Marvel comics once the MCU starts to flag, which looks to already be happening.
It’s really pretty naive to say and more likely the result of Slott’s inherent defensiveness combined with apathy and disdain for critics.
Can we stop saying Slott is in every Spider-Man thread? Seriously. If Slott was in this thread do you really think he'd make it that obvious? He's not (THAT) dumb, really. I think he'd know how to change up typing styles.
Sure, Slott
Man gets caught using alts on people he blocked.
>what a savy genius.
You are trying too hard to make people think you are Slott.
interesting
This is just a troll ignore it
Ok, Dan
You guys need to realize that trolls can try to impersonate creators in order to get a rise out of us. If the troll is not Dan then you're just giving them unwanted attention
Ok Dan
DAN SLOTT! I'M COMING TO KILL YOU! IN YOUR HOUSE!
You can't actually be this fricking stupid. Btw, even if you did actually know how to change you type you'd still stick out like a prolapsed butthole. There's a kind bant or culture on this site the most posters abide too and when you come on here with a blatant agenda and a lack of lingo it's pretty easy to spot you. Don't feel bad tho, not even the cia can pull it off let alone a fat hack comic israelite.
LMAO
This butthole is really trying to fricking compare all the shit they're doing to Peter to the death of Gwen Stacy?
Literally what happened to her is better than what's going on with Peter. Peter's in a zombified state where he's never allowed to truly progress at even a miniscule rate. Look at Batman and Superman. Those two dudes have kids now. Yes, they haven't changed too much, but they still have had changes permanently done to them. Peter's still childless and not only is he childless, but the girl who he's so often depicted as ending up with is with another man.
What they did can't even be called ruination, it's just the ultimate stagnation and zombification of a character that they have no idea what to write about. In a world of capeshit where various characters return to the status quo and never change, Peter is the ultimate representation of this. Bruce Banner has changed a lot since his inception and you honestly don't even really see regular Savage Hulk too often these days. Even villains like Thanos have changed more than him. Hell, even fricking Eddie Brock, once his ultimate archnemesis, has changed ALOT more than him.
Is spider-man even attracting new people? Do kids like current comic spider-man? Because if the only people still reading are those who do it out of habit then shit is going to die as soon as they do.
>is spider-man even attracting new people?
In general, yes. Games and movies do the heavy lifting. Comics wise, probably not.
My gf got into spiderman thanks to the ps4 game then she started to read the comics. Dropped at the start of this run
Tell her to read Spider-Girl instead
I have. She loves the book. Helps she styles her hair similarly
Have her read Ultimate and 2099 too
Not a fan of ultimate and still haven't read 2099 myself.
What you mean no? I posted a bit before which this was in reply to.
>new IP replies
>Dropped at the start of this run
The current run sucks.
Reminder Peter Parker was NEVER a good Spiderman. That's the key issue here. It wasn't until Miles and Gwen that the franchise found its footing in the popular consciousness.
b8
I don't know who Dan Slott is. I hate cape shit and honestly this is part of the reason why.
>you can't ruin a legacy character
I fricking hate these people. This past decade has done more damage to legacy characters than any others. You can't talk about Ariel or Snow White anymore without someone snickering or rolling their eyes. There's forever a "bad Disney Snow White" and "bad Disney Ariel" now that's just a stain on these characters legacy. Snow White is a little more timeless but Ariel is not exactly an old character.
All of comic cape shit, which I care next to nothing about before, is now unreadable. They've destroyed their readership and have no idea how to "cater to the queers and the blacks".
I think people should just stop caring about spider-man at all. if nothing matters because the next writter can frick it all again and again and again until infinite then why even care anymore, they can write Peter crying in a corner while MJ and Felicia are having sex in a interracial orgy in front of him and then say oh you should not be angry because the next writers can always fix everything (they won't) hahahah nothing matters.
at this point just find something else to enjoy, these people are cretins and they enjoy messing with fans.
I don't think you understand, people have mostly dropped the book. The only reason it's high on charts is mainly coming from people purchasing hard-to-get variants and other variants, that don't care what's in the book because they're buying for the cover
Isn't it better to let legacy characters rest for a bit, then start back up again? If people hate him so much, they need to just be working on their other characters rather than hatewriting Peter. Imagine if Spider-Man went to rest for a decade, then started back up again.
Fanboys while whine and b***h about everything. They are never happy for two minutes longer. Just look at how buttmad people over the Tombstone story because they can’t handle Spider-man losing temporarily
It's only marywh0regays doing the 24/7 whining tbqh
Boo Spencer's run was shit and so is wells.
That page was slott and ignore the polak he only posts 5 images
Yea the charcter has highs and lows but you get too low and it's impossible to bring it back up to that height and people move on to something else. Marvel already sold out and now the comics division has been on life support for decades, unless something changes soon people arent gonna care about the brand like they did and with writers like Dan working at marvel things are only gonna get alot worse before they start getting better.
It's already started with step 1, blame the readers.
They were already doing that back 20 years ago
Is Marvel full of people who still think it's the 00s and they can blame the readers while things are falling apart around them?
>People are trusting the comics media that've been around since the 00s less, or they're hollow shells of themselves
>Retailers have been voicing complaints
>Social Media amplifies their frickups whether fairly or unfairly
>Creators double down and make it worse on social media
>The old readers already hate them or bailed on them, and whatever new readers are starting to echo the complaints of the old readers
Yeah I'm guessing if dc collapses like idw is rn, it won't fair well for Marvel.
DC can't collapse because it makes way too much money for WB. Same with Marvel and Disney.
In the future maybe less so ollapse, but minimize and shrink as the market seems to be going down.
But WB, itself, is falling apart. DC can't die as long as WB keeps propping it up, but unless things turn around for WB soon they might go down and take DC with them. WB had to *sell HBO*, the service that made Game of Thrones, and its not even going to be called HBO anymore. Think about how dire their situation has to be for that to happen.
But
is right: given the current business model that both use, if either marvel or DC collapse then the other will follow soon after. Brick and mortar comic shops won't be able to survive if half of their business just evaporates overnight. They are barely keeping up as it is, they can't afford to have all of their DC titles just... stop. So if DC folds, the comic shops start going out of business within a year, and the Marvel is dead too because they have noplace left to sell their variant covers to. Barnes and Noble isn't going to stock fricking floppies.
Sounds like a bright future.
Unironically it might be for the best. If either company folds and the brick and mortar stores go under, the remaining company will HAVE to come up with a new business model to survive. So either they die and the playing field is totally wiped clean for new business and comics and ideas to grow in, or the last man standing has to adapt into something thats not decades out of date and get with the times. A lot of the bad content in comics only gets a pass because the shittying business practices allow it. When you make your money on variant colors and your 25th "Issue #1" in the last 10 years, whats actually inside the book doesn't matter, only the speculator collector market matters. Kill the market, and suddenly books only sell if they are worth reading. What an idea.
I wasn't kidding. It's for the best, the current model is awful and cancerous. If it crumbles then you can rebuild and you won't have to deal with specialty shops, variant covers, capeshit dominating (and being dominated by crossovers) and all the hacks that keep hiring their hack friends would be gone.
I'm trying to think of what would replace the current comics industry if it collapsed. Indies would make their play, but I'm not sure if they would succeed without comic shops to promote themselves in. They want to inherit the kingdom, but if the brick and mortar stores go down there is nothing for them to inherit.
Given the rise in popularity for anime, I feel like an interesting experiment would be to poach some promising talent from Japan and just pay them better to do their thing in english for an American audience. There are enough unironic westaboos in manga (like the guy that does MHA) that giving them a chance to do their own thing as a 'comic' rather than a manga, in an art style of their choosing, would probably get some hits. Maybe its in black and white, maybe its in color. But there's probably a way that this works, especially if its not constrained by DC/Marvel business practices.
>Indies would make their play, but I'm not sure if they would succeed without comic shops to promote themselves in.
Well comic book stores are already fricked. Their going to need to start shoving into the magazine sections or book sections of general merchandise retail stores but they already lack the funds to do that shit. The japs, koreans, and maybe chiese would probably take over since I see people buying that crap from Walmart, Target, and barnes and noble. Frick I wouldn't be surprised if Marvel(Disney) and DC(WB) start going even harder on whoring out their properties to the mangaka in the future.
DC dosn't make shit, even the movies are loss in millions. What make money is contract for lincencied products like Batman toy and shit. And WB don't need stories about Bruce cucking out of a mariage (but not really) and fighting his notwife for that.
>whatever new readers are starting to echo the complaints of the old readers
What have new readers been complaining about?
>It's impossible to ruin/destroy a long-standing legacy character
Might be true but it is possible to make them have nothing but trash stories for decades.
Time for me to remind everyone that Spiderverse as it is may not exist, if it weren’t for Slott working on Zone Wars stories in the Archie Sonic comics many years before.
Thank the Blue Hedgehog.
So what you're saying is not only did Slott take the idea from TAS, he also took it from Night of 1000 Sonics?
Nah, the spiderman 90s cartoon already had it's own spiderman before dan
We've been over this multiple times.
>TAS
>all the Spider-Men are series' originals and outside of the clones are just "same Spider-Man whose life took a different turn at some point" even with the clones it was somewhat ambiguous whether Ben or Spider-Carnage was the real Spider-Man of his universe
>Slott
>"'MEMBER THE THING?" and "SPIDER-MAN BUT SOMETHING DUMB AND GOOFY/SPIDER-MAN BUT A GAY FEMALE CRIPPLE"
Unless your argument is "Slott is an uncreative frick who can only steal ideas and make them thousand times worse" in which case, yeah.
>Unless your argument is "Slott is an uncreative frick who can only steal ideas and make them thousand times worse" in which case, yeah.
Wait I thought Slott being a uncreative frick was the argument?
Fair enough. I'm just tired of people shitting on TAS for Slott retroactively ruining those episodes by making Multiverse cancerous so I just automatically jumped to its defense.
Why would I be shitting on the last 2 episodes of TAS. That shit was always
Always awesome
As I said, it was a kneejerk reaction on my part.
I apologize.
It's all good.
Don't get me started, I fricking hate how bandwagon-jumping midwit npcs claim the multiverse was always bad just because of bad shit like the comic Spider-Verse or Marvel Phase 4
Let me put it this way.
Unless the words out of his mouth sound something like "I'm Dan Slott and I'm a moronic fat frick who should kill myself", nothing Slott ever says is right.
He's forgetting about when they "reveal" a straight character as gay, which is more irreversible than death.
peter gets sidelined and emasculated for lefty white men bashing reason in everything he stars.
for me at least the franchise is destroyed because i can’t see us ever getting a spidey story every again were he is still written as the real hero of the story
You could just do what I do and ignore character entirely. But I doubt Dan Slott wants that.
Dan Slott should be shot in the face.
If seller tells a buyer to stop complaining he's never right. Conflict of interest should be pretty obvious.
> Goro Majima takes over a comicbook company
You know, I'd play that game.
>lol why do you get mad at stupid plot developments it gets undone anyways
He's just now at that phase of the cope? He needs to hurry to the "literally none of this matters, don't bother getting invested" stage that most the readers are at.
He's just scared dudes are gonna bring negativity to his new shit like superior and spiderboy. So he's in here trying to convince people he's not.
Who's he trying to convince, us or himself? And to what end? Is this to bring readers back?
...whats a 'reader'?
I'm not sure, but whatever they are, Marvel and DC writers apparently hate them.
test
He's making a case for Marvel consistently fricking up...
Also, how long does one put up with all that bullshit before just dropping a comic? Tubby should just stuff another bagel in his mouth and shut the frick up.
Gwen Stacy's death as an adult moment for Peter, not a regression. The Clone saga sought to replace Peter for another Spider-Man who would literally be made of the same stuff and they wisely backtracked it.
One more day was some DC comics bullshit. I love DC. But they magically reboot characters and erase past stories with both abandon little in the way of writing skill. One more day regressed Peter and erased THE, NOT ONE BUT THE most storied relationship in comics, more so than Lois and Clark. Spider-Man got married in multiple media simultaneously, it was an NYC event. So many plots involved their relationship, it was the natural sucession in real world issues Spider-Man had to deal with.
Slott is being disingenuous because he is hated. And he empathizes with other writers being hated.
The Lois and Clark shit during N52 was so fricking bad that they literally killed both so OG Clark and Lois could live on.
And everyone hated how cold and edgy N52 Superman was and how much of a b***h Lois was.
So this was another WIN for Johns and the Heat which was sabotaged after they booted him out to the movie department by the OMD and DiDio Lee gang
>One more day was some DC comics bullshit.
I remember hearing that originally WAS a plan for Superman, involving Mr. Mxyzpltzx.
That's how bad things got in comics.
>I’ve read a few speculations over the years about how we were going to use that proposal to end the Supeman/Lois Lane marriage. In fact that was actually something we decided we didn’t want to do. I remember Mark Waid and the guys and all of us sitting around thinking of ways to end the Superman marriage – and we talked about it for a long time, and we got to where we were talking about things like “memory molecules,” and we finally said, “This is ridiculous! The only way to do this is to keep the marriage and make it work!”
>It was the only thing we could do with what I still think was a bad idea. The marriage damaged the dynamic of Superman comics quite severely, but if we broke up the relationship of these two great fictional lovers, Superman would immediately seem ineffectual and ultimately beaten by his foes, walking around for the rest of his life not knowing Lois was ever his wife or whatever.
>So we opted to keep Lois Lane and the marriage intact. It’s kind of an interesting reflection of what recently happened in Spider-Man, where they did choose to magically unmarry the hero to predictable howls of protest. Then again, I actually think they’ll be able to make that one work if they just grit their teeth for a couple of years until the new status quo becomes accepted, so who knows?
"Couple of years" was optimistic.
And yet they decided to Undo the marriage and frick over both Clark and Lois characters until Convergence happened
New 52 was a reset that only allowed for 5 years of history, so it made sense to reset the marriage. The only reason Batman didn't get reset is because they didn't want to ruin Morrison's well-selling run even though the timeline no longer made sense.
This is always the problem with these reboots and resets: they never fricking COMMIT to them. They always make exceptions for their pet projects, which create gaps and confusion in the new timeline and later get taken as a free pass by other writers to rescue THEIR favorite bit of old continuity from the fire, and within a few years you are right back where you started but its even more convoluted than last time.
Good thing then after Death Metal they've decided that continuity doesn't matter anymore and writers are free to pick and choose whichever stories they want to acknowledge as long as a run is consistent with itself.
That's definitely going on in Green Lantern right now. A shitload of lanterns died and John was made a guardian last run. All of a sudden now, John is still a guardian, but Hal is now not a lantern any longer without explanation, the dead lanterns seem to be not dead in crossover stuff without explanation. Sinestro was leader of the sinestro Corps last run, now he is some powerless hobo. No one knows what the frick is happening and we are like 6 months into it.
The current run is kinda using stuff from lat run and kinda not. But no one is bothering to come out and say what is and isn't canon now.
That’s moronic. Who the frick thought THAT was a good idea?
Scott Snyder and the current DC administration and it's the right approach. There has never been a good "fix" story. They got it right back in DC's silver age, there's no point getting bent out of shape over inconsistencies or trying to explain them away. Just tell entertaining stories.
Nope, Morrison.
That was DilDio talking? That would explain how wrong he was.
>This is always the problem with these reboots and resets: they never fricking COMMIT to them.
Wouldn't have worked regardless.
>Wouldn't have worked regardless.
Probably not, but there would have at least been some point to it all if the individual slices of the reboot timeline were at least of a distinct continuity. As is, they do all of this buildup and work and changes and even their own writers don't seem to be clear on what the point of it all was because it only made things more confusing.
The change that came with the original Crises on Infinite Earths wasn't perfect, but it was at least 50% coherent. Every reboot since then has been worse.
Crisis was pretty much the same. Batman and Teen Titans kept most of their history intact with a few after-the-fact retcons to Batman because they were DC's best sellers, characters like Hawkman really got screwed over. With Flashpoint it was Green Lantern instead of Titans.
>With Flashpoint it was Green Lantern instead of Titans.
Glad they at least let Johns finish his run, it was at a high point. I think as soon as the War of the Lanterns ended, though, Nu2 kicked in. Or maybe not, the beginning of the next arc was confusing.
>Should we stop complaining about Marvel ruining Spider-Man?
Yes, if only because we should have learned as a society not to give any fricks about Spider-Man or any d*sney owned property at this point.
Doesn't that mean guaranteed 6-7 years of unreadable garbage and people not wanting to buy the book at all because some writer has a fetish for torturing and ruining fictional characters though?
I can't really see the economic reasons for specifically not writing anything anyone wants to read and turn away potential customers for some undetermined amount of time like this. What kind of sales plan is this? How does this help sales?
Same man threw a hissy fit that people were saying that the spiderverse movies are better than the comics.
Dan Slott here. I fricking hate all of you. I’m trying my hardest to Ruin Spider-Man but you kids keep crying to Marvel that my changes are stupid.
Well guess what?
Paul is here to stay and he’s actually a Peter from the future, so expect him to take back over as Spidey and this Peter Dorker to take the backseat once again.
No because even though Spider-Man has survived bad stories before and will continue to into the future that doesn't make the bad stories good or immune to critique. If Spider-Man is being written poorly in your opinion, you should voice that opinion.
Stop reading marvel for just six months and you will get everything you ever wanted and more out of them. If you can't do that stop b***hing and keep reading. Simple as that.
Marvel intern trying to use reverse psychology to get us to keep reading through bait.
Doesn't work like that, Danny boy. Companies were all too happy to utilize fan engagement to boost sales. Encouraging social media presence, encouraging people to like, link, subscribe, whatever to spread their love of the shiny products that were sold. Companies kept pushing and pushing to people the notion of upholding the duty of spreading the good word, in order to support products they like (in this case comics) with the promise that support will lead to bigger sales and thus companies will make more of the thing people supported.
Well.
People realized that if they can be used to spread the good word to support stuff they want, they can also spread the bad word to hold back stuff they dislike.
No.
Using the excuse that someone else will work on a character later doesn't excuse bad writing. Hell it makes it even worse because you're telling the customers that nothing matters because you as the writers can do anything you want. So why would they bother?
Only marywh4regays keep b***hing about it, he shouldn't give them any attention
They can't ruined the idea of the character or the story that came before, but they sure as hell can ruin the story going foreward.
>Twitter bait thread
>Dan bawdt bait thread
>1 day and 3 hours
>276 replies
>97 posters
I'm so disappointed.
That's nuCinemaphile for you, mate.