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Is "Good Superman" the deconstruction?
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Don't know, don't care, but I am tired of "what if Superman but evil".
At this point in general "subversive" takes have far outnumbered the sincere genuine depictions. It's just such a cheap easy well to go to.
like clowns
and expectations
Lol no
newbie
Superman is Hercules
But Heracles is a dick.
So was Superman
The deconstruction now is a Superman who, despite all his powers, is just a human. A damned good human, but still a human.
Read The Metropolitan Man.
So, Metroman post fake death?
>Metro Man post fake death
You mean Music Man.
Hanwiener is the most realistic superman.
Kind of a bum, but has a good (but not too good) heart? I think that makes sense. Honestly, I think Superman would be more good than not if he was a real guy.
that movie started good then became weird
I don't understand why would you cast Will Smith as Superman in the 2000s and make it a shitty melodrama about cucking
Maybe today it would make more sense
>media or show mentions "angels" or alludes to some other religious allegory
WOAH NELLY WE CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT WITHOUT SOME SPECIAL ANNOTATION!
>a tragic sacrifice and not just a bonus for being a decent human being.
Who says those things are mutually exclusive? Christ died for us, but because He had to complete the law. Charlize Theron made it clear that everytime she and Hanwiener linked up a mob of people immediately tried to kill them. It was poetically kino that they are an interrace couple because we know nothing draws ire like racism and envy in one.
Not at all. That’s like saying Dennis Rodman is the most realistic basketball player. Hanwiener is a “realistic” superhero, a realistic Superman would be apprehending naked people at all ages pride events.
You people need to really say this shit with an asterisk.
The second half of this movie is weird romance novel nonsense that has absolutely no connection with the established premise. It's one of the most insane tonal and thematic shifts I've ever seen.
It goes from a look at how the pressure of being a superhero could frick with someone to being about some guy's blond wife wanting to frick his black friend because they were secretly designed for each other by some ancient civilization and then ultimately deciding to not have an affair because NOT fricking each other gives them superpowers.
I don't know what the creators were smoking during that movie. Was like a weird fever dream.
No one talks about the second half ether when they bring it up, so it really blindsides you too.
>Hanwiener literally gets his powers from NOT fricking his best friends wife.
>The movie presents this as a tragic sacrifice and not just a bonus for being a decent human being.
I'm convinced most people who bring this movie up like it's just a regular Superman deconstruction haven't actually seen it.
Technically he realized his best friend was fricking HIS wife, but he didn't know. Honestly the Superwife angle really kind of makes the movie worse, because what a fricking coincidence right?
But obviously the deconstruction comes from Hanwiener being a burnout Superhero who's compelled to do good but the reality of his situation makes it difficult to be a boy scout.
Yeah and that half of the movie is fine, but it really gets hijacked completely near the end.
Technically, Superman originally was a deconstruction, but as time went on and Superman himself because more and more engrained in culture, he became the norm, and then they started deconstructing Superman himself.
It's kinda like how Batman was originally an anti-hero, but as time went on, he redefined what being a traditional hero is, so the definition of anti-hero no longer applied to him.
Batman was invented as an opposite to
Superman. Even by 1940 Clark was finding his footing as a paragon of virtue (for the time) so the idea was a heroic polar opposite.
No he wasn't. Bat-man hunted criminals with a gun and killed the Joker in his first adventure. Bat-man was patterned after The Shadow, not as a critique of Superman. Superman's "hero persona" was established first on the radio show and not the comics.
Batman "hunted" giant mutated monstermen experiments he already considered dead with a harpoon gun, and Joker accidentally killed himself on their first adventure which Batman regretted on the same page and said he was trying to avoid.
This is what happens when you don’t read comics but instead read about comics.
>His creator was Bob Kane, an artist and writer aiming to find a new hero to rival Superman, who had appeared the previous year
https://www.historytoday.com/archive/batman-makes-his-debut#:~:text=His%20creator%20was%20Bob%20Kane,had%20appeared%20the%20previous%20year.
He can be patterned after the Shadow all he wants, this is why he was created.
Batman was invented as a knock-off of the Shadow.
What was Superman deconstructing?
The Übermensch
Aliens
Lex's jawbone.
nta but before Superman every Übermensch character was either evil or apathetic, Superman being so altruistic and modest was quite fresh at the time
Deconstruction requires intent. This was never the intent, rather a reading from decades after his creation by pseuds like Alan moore who also think superheroes are inherently fascistic
I think the idea of anti-hero is a bit iffy in the first place. You're calling the original Batman an anti-hero why? Because he kills? Tons of heroes killed in comics back then and there was zero fluff up about it, Pulp heroes are in do or die situations, sometimes they've gotta cap a fricker. Going further back in literature, there's tons of heroes who aren't regarded as gray in the slightest who snuff frickers without a moment's hesitation. Anti-heroes in the context of Superheroes are purely regarded as such because Superheroes had developed into a genre that forbade killing and built it into its mythos as an excuse. Once they threw it off, they would contrast heroes who stuck by that code with those that didn't.
>indiana jones and luke skywalker kill their enemies by the dozen and are seen as idols to kids everywhere
>the same morons grow up 'buh batman cant kill! it makes him evil! killing bad, thats no good! punisher bad! heroes are clean cut and never kill!'
>it also ignores the fact that commissioner gordon, bullock, montoya and any cop can kill while on the job and not be seen as some maniac who needs to be taken off the streets
To be fair Batman is a vigilante, killing would make his crimes go from something someone excusable to probably a little iffy if he should be allowed have that kind of power with no intended oversight.
But again Batman's code is mostly an artifact of wanting to appeal to kids, I'm sure Gordon wasn't popping thugs back then either, the holdover is explained away by Batman just having a massive aversion to death rather than caring if the Cops hold him in good standing.
yeah, Ive made that point before that a masked vigilante upping the ante and going beyond kidnapping, torturing, tampering with evidence, and assaulting people into murder, it makes it harder for him to function or have the people's trust. but the argument that he should NEVER EVER kill because it makes him a bad guy always comes from a saturday morning cartoon like perspective. the same fans condemn any hero who killed because 'its morally wrong' when really its because theyre in love with the idea that (sanitized) batman is perfect and his ideals are perfect too.
>I think the idea of anti-hero is a bit iffy in the first place.
It's iffy because it's not the universal or timeless concept some would like it to be. Heroes represent an ideal, defend or behave conformingly to the morals and sensitivity of their society and Time. Anti-heroes are not that, whenever it's cause of a flaw and/or their morality.
Some iterations of the character aside (like TDK), whenever you want to describ Batman as the lightest shade of Anti-hero or the darkest shade of Hero is tomayto and tomahto, however.
>Beat a wife beater
>Destroy a company led by a corrupt bussiness man
>Fight the 1% and force tyrants to have a truze
And after USA entering in WW2 those thing dissapeared, slowly introducing characters like Prankster.
It was never a deconstruction
No you moron.
>Superman but Evil
Cringe.
>Superman but just wants to be left alone
Based.
It's funny that he's a sub-par musician. What's real supermans INT like? Can he play a musical instrument?
based on nothing but i think it would be funny, clark plays the drums enthusiastically but badly
Well imagine trying to play a drum solo while having to be very careful to very daintily tap them every so gently so you don't obliterate them.
He hovers around above average intellect-wise, but he can think and do complex calculations in superspeed.
>he's a sub-par musician.
No shit, he literally just started.
Shit taste
he has to be one of the most relatable characters of all time
Parodying Superman like this is weird. It's supposed to be a daring subversion but the reality is that Superman hasn't been a relevant character for 40 years. Parody Spider-Man or Iron Man if you want to say something.
Both of those characters are parodied in The Boys comic book.
No one reads comics.
The Boys Iron Man was the one that had a tumor in his brain that turned him into a degenerate pedophile, right?
Yes. He was a mix of Iron man and Batman.
It's not a daring subversion more he's the archetypal superhero force for good and will always be. You see Superman or an obvious pastiche and you know exactly what he represents. Iron Man and Spider-man represent Iron Man and Spider-man, Superman represents Superheroes. Ontop of that his powerset is really just over the top which is why half of them also become an "absolute power corrupts" story.
Anon, the Iron Man parody is a real peeson who's currently running Twitter into the ground. Making another Iron Man parody is pointless.
You should get in the ground with it.
>Anon, the Iron Man parody is a real peeson who's currently running Twitter into the ground
Exactly, what if the Iron Man parody was a true villain instead of an accidental hero?
It's kinda hard to properly parody Iron Man, because he was literally made on a bet that Stan Lee couldn't make a character who had all these major flaws (womaniser, alcoholic, weapons merchant, generally kind of an butthole) and still make him a popular hero. Like, he's already so fricked up and flawed that satire can't match what he already is.
Yeah Tony is basically a subversion of Lex Luthor who is a supergenius who try to take over the world by selling his advanced weapons and having ties with several goverments
an evil Tony Stark is just Lex Luthor, that's why The Robot from Invincible went from Tony Stark to Lex Luthor
>It's supposed to be a daring subversion
Nobody who makes an evil superman thinks there is anything daring about it. It's just a archetype that a lot of people like playing with.
The parody of iron man is either someone who's superficially brilliant but actually incompetent (which doesn't really work, since then they can't work as a superhero), or they end up consistently fricking up because of their flaws and it's played for laughs instead of drama.
>superficially brilliant but actually incompetent
You can just say Reed Richards
>40 years
Nah Death of Superman , Superman TAS , lois and clark ,What's so funny, Jhon kent dead in geoff run or Tomassi run were more relevant than the last 10 years of spiderman and iron man comics which say a lot about how misshandled are those characters
Stop pushing the "Superman is a God" thing, Superman is just the answer to the question "what if a pretty good guy had superpowers?"
That's it's.
Superman is Jesus with a cape.
He is far more Moses than Jesus
They should make a capeshit comic where the Superman is literally Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
but how did the wops get kryptonite nails
Imperator Lexius Luthorius had some tricks up his sleeves.
Unironically, the 40 days Christ spends in the wilderness has the potential for a pretty gripping graphic novel. With a bit of creative writing to expand on the source material, you can make all kinds if intentse encounter. Like, he's in the wilderness with the *devil,* what more do you need for a gritty action comic?
Superman is MOSES with a cape.
Who the frick actually depicts Greek gods as clean and benevolent?
ok Zack Snyder
T. snyder
Yes?
Come on now, Superman's a glorified firefighter.
>superpowers
Anon, there's superpowers, and then there's being a god damned flying brick.
Even Siegel and Shuster's original version of Superman was evil. The good Superman was a change that they came up with later.
The original Superman was the prototype of the Ultra-Humanite. Look at that bald homie.
To be fair even ancient Greek philosophers (like pre-Socratic levels of "ancient") frequently complained about the works of the poets attributing immorality or imperfection to divinity
>take superhero icon
>make them twisted and perverted for the lulz
>'see, this is why superhero comics are bad! irl theyd be just like this, a murderous, sick pedo!'
ennis, ellis, millar and their edgy fanboys need to frick off already. its tired
Theres clear difference between
>If Superman was real he would be evil
vs
>If a weapon manufacturer used science fiction drug to turn a random fetus into a super person and neglected to treat him like a human being troughout his pampered life of 24/7 drug/prostitute fueled celebrity god life he would turn evil
Sometimes I wish Miracle Man, Watchmen, and Dark knight never got made. The amount of gritty comic spinoffs, redesigns, etc etc that it spawned wasn't worth it.
watchmen and its consequences have been a disaster for comics
Let's be honest if someone had superman powers in real life they'd probably use them for stuff that's way more practical and lucrative than fighting crime
Like, going around killing random people is pretty unrealistic and so is stopping random muggers, they'd do boring shit like unstucking the evergreen or help build large particle colliders
Not sure about killing. but I'm pretty sure I'd just bully everyone around Hanma Yujiro-style.
if i had super powers i would use them to destroy particle colliders
In a way, yes.
Superman came out in a time when almost every Alien portrayed in media was shown as evil invaders.
Superman broke with that, partially because they wanted to show how immigrants (Aliens) could be good, even great people, but also to show those immigrants that there were nothing wrong with them adapting to the American way. After all it was one of the reason why they were there in the first place.
Turning Superman evil is ironically just going back to the old way of making the outsider/other evil, a message I doubt most of the writers would agree with.
Evil Superman is a reconstruction of an old trope that Superman deconstructed.
>the original texts
we don't have the originals
Hesiod didn't have the originals
the comparison here is specious
>we don't have the originals
>the comparison here is specious
That doesn't follow.
OG Superman
>kansasian raised Christian in a two parent household
Evil Superman
>Fatherless urbanite
Homelander is an butthole
The Lex/Iron Man comparisons made me think in how Megamind's success is basically a sort of symbolic of how Superhero works in the 2000s.
Megamind and Iron man are very similar, down to having popular rock songs playing while they were fighting.
In a way, the film is basically about how antiheroes like Megamind and Iron man replaced classical heroes like Superman, who were too exhausted to continue being the lead.
The difference here is that the general public loved Metroman while the average person IRL hates Superman lol
My parody of Superman involves making him a large woman with voluptuous proportions and having Superwomannisa rape her villains. It's going to be hilarious, a real gut buster I tell you.
You're not funny and nobody likes you
Yeah of the Uberman consept created by the Nazis.
Superman is an anthropomorphism of the US empire, the rise in the "evil Superman" comes from an awareness of it's population that the beacon of hope and freedom might not be what they were told.