People seek novelties and straight white make is the default so now reboots and rehashes are sold on the same thing but with novel queer
brown gendermemes and stronk waman.
>Michaela Clavell, a daughter of the author and chief executive of a company that manages Clavell’s literary estate, said her father, who died in 1994, was proud of the original mini-series. But she recognized that it was of its time and wanted to update it.
>“We only can do what we can do at any given real time moment, right?” she said. “In 20 years, we may look back on this and say, ‘Well, that was …’ fill in the blank.”
Isn't this literally what most people praised about The Last Samurai? That Algren was more like someone watching events unfold instead of actively shaping them?
Why is Cinemaphile now getting mad that this show is doing the same? Did they really want a foreigner to be named Shogun and mary sue his way through the story?
No you idiot, it’s that they can read between the lines and see exactly how this will be tarnished. Have you read Shogun? It’s not about a white man becoming the leader of anything, he becomes a retainer for the fictional stand-in of Tokugawa. The series is going to do the same gay horseshit these homosexuals always do. They’re going to fill it with darkies, queers, and stronk women, and Blackthorne’s going to be totally sidelined and act like a little fricking b***h so that Mariko can be a decisive girlboss. Frick these people I hate this shit every goddamn motherfricking time
>straight white make is the default
this has only been the case in westoid countries, and it's never even been culturally homogenous. unless you want to say that 20th century media from assorted eurpoean countries was the same as whatever america calls white. because parallel to hollywood, the whole world is full of media featuring their chose ethnicity, unless you can point out all the japanese sitcoms or indian movies starring white men. it is also not going unnoticed how this hatred of whites is comorbid with objectively bad media, unless you have some canned line about how pedowood is somehow doing great.
To be honest in this case it's fine they're moving away from Blackthorne more. Much of the best part of the novel was the political intrigue, and Blackthorne was only a part of it. The romance wasn't as entertaining.
>Michaela Clavell, a daughter of the author and chief executive of a company that manages Clavell’s literary estate, said her father, who died in 1994, was proud of the original mini-series. But she recognized that it was of its time and wanted to update it.
>“We only can do what we can do at any given real time moment, right?” she said. “In 20 years, we may look back on this and say, ‘Well, that was …’ fill in the blank.”
>even prog-zombies are being forcibly made aware of their own movement's Presentism and pattern of demonizing the past
Good, the next step is for the frustration to set in and them eventually giving up on progressivism entirely. It's hard for even the most cognitive-dissonance-tolerant person to support a movement where they KNOW that, sooner or later, they themselves will be demonized and denigrated.
lmao a story about a white male going to a foreign country and becoming embroiled in local culture which is based in historical fact
is controversial or a relic of the past
this is why I won't be watch this shit
these people are stupid
I appreciate her small bit of self awareness in acknowledging that in 20 years people may find issues with this version. Often these people make it sound like the past was fundamentally wrong and they are fundamentally right, and what they do will never be questioned because it is ontologically good.
To be fair, humanity has been doing that forever. And it will never end. Compare a translation of Homer from 1500s with one from the 1700s with one from the 1800s with one from the 1900s.
True but it's not them adapting say Robin Hood every two hundred years, or telling vaguely similar stories of Hero and Villain but with the values of the time changed around. This is literally the same story, updated for no reason, in less than a generation. I'm sure Shogun is a good book and all that, but it's nowhere near the relevance or importance of Homer et al.
And all this for a bunch of news values that are, let's be honest, incredibly shit
>And despite the frank portrayal of sexuality in the novel, Sawai refused to film any nude scenes.
>“I don’t want to end up being in ‘Shogun’ and going full nude and putting myself into that pigeonhole, or the stereotype of the Asian woman taking her clothes off and seducing a white guy,” Sawai said during an interview at a cafe in Tokyo.
>I didn't want to portray my character correctly because I'm a prudish self-absorbed c**t
There will be no shortage of male nudity, I'm sure. Man-ass at the very least, but probably more because frick you, that's why.
Oh man you fat kids are not going to like the scene where Blackthorne is weeping with rage and shame about how his people are so dirty and brutish compared to the Japs
He's one of those puddinghead POCs who believe blacks invented everything and all white people were filthy in europe and wore wigs because they lice etc etc etc
Buck-breaking cope.
He's one of those puddinghead POCs who believe blacks invented everything and all white people were filthy in europe and wore wigs because they lice etc etc etc
Buck-breaking cope.
is a reactionary moron.
That said, it wasn't as bad as some pop historians would have you believe. The issue was a matter of practicality and culture - at the time not many people had the means/wealth to heat a warm bath for a significant period of time, so instead they opted to use cloth dipped in hot water to wipe themselves say once a week. Another issue is that at the time it was believed steam and "vapors" were vectors of disease, so bathing in hot water was seen as counter intuitive at the time to actually being healthy. Finally, there were public bath houses, but the church had been skeptical of them because of public nudity so people weren't as likely to go to them
Add all this together, and you get a time period and culture where filth was more common and somewhat accepted
>people took what was basically spung baths and several times a day permitted and then would bath as we know it given the opportunity probably once or twice a week permitted. if you where wealthy or had access it would be more
the idea that people where just horribly dirty is stupid. people used to devote a lot more time to hygiene then than they do today to
No it isn't their is a wealth of accounts of this from the time
4 months ago
Anonymous
>No it isn't their is a wealth of accounts of this from the time
um no sweetie you are conflating historical accounts and its there!
4 months ago
Anonymous
could you try to not post like such a homosexual from here on?
4 months ago
Anonymous
you sir are the only homosexual here
regurgitating tired pop pseudo historical garbage
Europeans in times passed rightly made the connection between water and transmission of harmful pathogens making them wary of water
regardless they still washed but differently from your modern spa like bathing regium which is a European practice after all
That said, it wasn't as bad as some pop historians would have you believe. The issue was a matter of practicality and culture - at the time not many people had the means/wealth to heat a warm bath for a significant period of time, so instead they opted to use cloth dipped in hot water to wipe themselves say once a week. Another issue is that at the time it was believed steam and "vapors" were vectors of disease, so bathing in hot water was seen as counter intuitive at the time to actually being healthy. Finally, there were public bath houses, but the church had been skeptical of them because of public nudity so people weren't as likely to go to them
Add all this together, and you get a time period and culture where filth was more common and somewhat accepted
Ridiculous pop bullshit. (which is why only Clavell's fiction mentions it and not japanese primary sources)
The Brits closed some public baths, which doubled as brothels, because of the spread of disease.
Yet no mention by other sources like traders from central european nations who never bothered shutting down any that they were any more unclean than per usual.
And public baths were gathering places of the poor, ill, and malcontent beyond being brothels which festered diseases. Which people at the time misattributed to vapors and bad airs because they didn't have germ theory, so they avoided regular hot baths for that reason. The most common method of cleanliness was as I mentioned, dipping cloths in cold and 'perfumed' waters to wipe the hands, feet, neck and face. Occasionally workers would dip in ponds and rivers as well to wipe off more encrusted grime. Only royalty bathed and cleaned with any sense of modern regularity, but that was also again somewhat mitigated by the old beliefs in disease being transmitted by vapors, airs and bad smells.
While I agree with you, I thought they actually boiled the water, as the experts at the time insisted you should scrub yourself until your skin was "pinkish and glowing."
4 months ago
Anonymous
They might have prior to, but generally the water when dipped in was cold or at least lukewarm iirc.
big moron shit. maybe they did this for a generation or so after the black death because of the insane trauma of that, but not at any other points
4 months ago
Anonymous
Things didn't start to change until the 18th century idiot. And this isn't even a knock on Europeans like you think it is. Their habits were based on the best logic they had at the time. They didn't know about germs, they just knew that places you could get sick from (waste, filth, swamps, bathhouses plagued by syphilis outbreaks, etc) had bad smells or noticeable airs or vapors from them, so they just assumed that must have been it, and acted accordingly.
4 months ago
Anonymous
>Europeans >their habits
Literally only Anglos and Frogs believed in that shit and it wasn't for 200 years like you seem to think.
4 months ago
Anonymous
You know, it is kind of funny to me that all thew rest of the world really has on Europe is YOU DID NOT BATH.
When at the time of the sailing of huge ships round the world having no end of art stories and culture written down by europeans.
The blacks still danced around fire and shoved bones in their noses. The Native muricans were scalping and eating each other worshiping great wind spirit.
The Chinese just stopped being innovators, and just spent years upon years in power struggles and civil war.
It is why they seethe so much at euro descendants. We had to drag them kicking and screaming in to the modern world.
If the blacks made huge ships first, you would be hearing about the Metembu Empire instead of the British one and i bet they would not have been as kind to other peoples as well. Perhaps even worse than a bit of farm help and whipping.
>bad smells are strongly believed to carry disease >but also nobody washed and everyone stank like shit 24/7 >what contradiction?
Poor people weren't running a hot bath every evening, no shit, but this idea that people only dabbed themselves once a week is revisionist garbage peddled by Classics-worshipping gaygoid "academics" who desperately wanted middle ages people to be 'orrible filthy scum so their previous Meds would look better by comparison. Contemporary accounts - though admittedly few survive - suggest that people used washcloths regularly, even multiple times a day for some who worked manual jobs, and your deliberate use of dainty language to minimise the process is incredibly disingenuous - have you ever vigorously rubbed yourself with a rough old towel? "Wiping" suggests something far less thorough. An *honest* assessment of the historical record suggests most people would use the washcloth daily, and with hot water whenever possible, with bathing done whenever the opportunity arose.
Would they be fragrant and spotless like a modern poofter such as yourself? Obviously not they couldn't just order soap and deoderant off fricking Amazon, but the notion of the rancid, filthy, boil-encrusted peasant is as fictional as knights slaying dragons - one of the lies just remains useful to the modern upper classes.
4 months ago
Anonymous
The truth is we can never know! And who knows what our distant ancestors will assume about us! We are all connected and blurred by time!
4 months ago
Anonymous
the wash basin was in use since before the middle ages
people generally weren't as clean as today on average but your correct that it is heavily exaggerated.
the Japanese ass stank too dont be fooled
people in general were less clean than today but people still practiced hygiene
they typically did it more often but less thoroughly.
Don't worry I don't know anyone that'll be watching it.
People just don't like seeing shitskins receive praise they never deserve. Japs are honorary whites.
Miura Anjin was probably history’s first weeb anyway.
This. As a white supremacist I feel great pride in asian reating us as inferior, as we deserve.
I’m assuming they missed the lady Samurai and the fricking Shogun? The guy who carries the title of the book?
Eh, the novel portrayed the Japanese as savage, weird, and pretty creepy at times so I’ll take that.
Think about it from his perspective - would you rather take a perilous 2 year long trip back to England to see your withered before her time wife with rotting teeth, lice, and dirt who bathes at most once a month? Or stay in Japan with your clean and cute waifu who washes and massages you in the hot spring bath daily
He left a couple of times, he just never made it back to England, and to be fair, he probably didn't want to by the time he'd been granted land and title by the Tokugawa. He was much wealthier in Japan than he would have been at home.
How is Blackthorn a hero? And the original mini-series has Mariko and Torungawa as well as those swarthy hispanics in both the church and the black ship as 'stars'.
Anon not sure where you've been but anyone non white is considered kaleidoscopic. Thus a movie that is all black or all asian is considered extremely diverse.
White people tried not caring about race for about 40 years, then most of them realized that nobody else followed suit and just used the opportunity to fortify against whites while their defenses were down.
>Sanada advised the cast and crew on period authenticity, given his experience acting in historical dramas in Japan. He helped teach Anna Sawai, who plays Toda Mariko, a samurai’s wife and Blackthorne’s interpreter, to speak in classical Japanese locutions.
LOL Mariko actor isn't even Japanese
Finding a talented Japanese actress that is fluent in English to a native level that can carry a show as a lead is probably really hard
>Anna Sawai was born on June 11, 1992, in Wellington, New Zealand to parents of Japanese descent.[3] Her mother trained in opera performance and later worked as a piano teacher,[4] while her father worked for an electronics company.[5] From age 3, her mother taught her how to play the piano and how to sing.[3] Her family moved frequently while growing up due to her father's job, living in Hong Kong and the Philippines, before settling in Yokohama, Japan at age 10
She’s Japanese but she had to learn the old-timey samurai manner of speaking. It’s like the difference between Shakespearean/Elizabethan English and present day English.
WOMEN WOMEN WOMEN
EVERYTHING WILL BE WOMEN
AND YET, TOO MANY THINGS WILL BE MEN!
WOMEN OWN THE WORLD, WOMEN ARE THE FUTURE. YET, DESPITE THIS, WOMEN ARE THE VICTIMS.
>And despite the frank portrayal of sexuality in the novel, Sawai refused to film any nude scenes. >“I don’t want to end up being in ‘Shogun’ and going full nude and putting myself into that pigeonhole, or the stereotype of the Asian woman taking her clothes off and seducing a white guy,” Sawai said during an interview at a cafe in Tokyo.
oh goody.
I just finished Gai-Jin and while I am a colossal Clavell fan, I felt pretty let down by the ending. Nothing seemed to matter. I was pretty crushed by what happened to Malcolm, though. Really wanted to see Hag Struan appear.
> I just finished Gai-Jin and while I am a colossal Clavell fan, I felt pretty let down by the ending. Nothing seemed to matter. I was pretty crushed by what happened to Malcolm, though.
While Gai-Jin is a weak novel Struan-wise, the Japanese parts are pretty good and it could be done as a decent tv series with some work.
> Really wanted to see Hag Struan appear.
It's a shame Clavell didn't write more stories within the Asian Saga timeline, I particularly like the alt-historical reference to The Hag having to honor one of Dirk Struan's broken coins from Sun Yat-Sen, making the Noble House a part of the 1911 Chinese Revolution. I coulda been cool.
I'd like to see a Clavell-verse happen, with tv mini-series of his novels as they're great books but with how woketarded Hollywood is nowadays, it would most likely be shit. Though one could hope that with the conservative Japanese (Shogun and Gai-Jin) and Chinese (Tai-Pan and Noble House) influences on the productions, it might be saved?
Shōgun - Japan in 1600
Tai-Pan - Hong Kong in 1841
Gai-Jin - Japan in 1862
Noble House - Hong Kong in 1963
I wouldn't bother redoing King Rat (set in a Japanese POW camp in Singapore during WWII) as it doesn't really fit the series of stories, nor does Whirlwind (Iran in 1979) though that could be done.
My life’s dream would be to adapt Tai-Pan as maybe a 3 season tv series. The movie with Brian Brown had some OK moments but basically focused on the love relationship between Dirk and May-May. I haven’t seen the Pierce Brosnan 80’s Noble House but it’s been pretty well forgotten, so I doubt it really hit the mark.
A series like that would go over super well today because you’d have the swinging 60’s look and KC Tcholock is like the best girlboss character modern writers could never actually think up.
The Japanese parts of Gai-Jin are good but don’t measure up to Shogun, which may have just been a theme of the novel anyway. Yoshi Toranaga had all the makings of a great Shogun who could set everything right but was waylaid by Japan’s culture of red tape and bullshit. So in essence he actually wasn’t as good as the original Toranaga since he always found a way to make everything work to his advantage. I think Clavell was just too sick and out of steam to write like he did for Shogun. There was just too many perspective characters, too. You have Angelique, Malcolm, Jamie, the Doctors, Yoshi, all the different agents of Sonno-joī, etc. where Shogun just dealt with the perspectives of Blackthorne and Toranaga.
>My life’s dream would be to adapt Tai-Pan as maybe a 3 season tv series. The movie with Brian Brown had some OK moments but basically focused on the love relationship between Dirk and May-May.
Tai-Pan was the first Clavell novel I read and the best IMO and while the movie was ok and Brian Brown was perfect as Dirk Struan, it was a one-off theatrical movie and not a tv mini-series and so most of the story is dropped and condensed.
>I haven’t seen the Pierce Brosnan 80’s Noble House but it’s been pretty well forgotten, so I doubt it really hit the mark.
It's pretty meh, though Pierce Brosnan was perfect for the role. Dunno who I'd cast today, maybe Henry Cavill?
I didn't really enjoy King Rat the first time I read it but I appreciated it the second time I read it. Tai-pan is easily the best of his books though.
That's kind of the point the book, both Japanese and westerners are swept along by events and all their individual plans turn to shit. This blackpill theme is also in King Rat and Whirlwind, its only Shogun where there is a clear 9000 IQ winner in Toranaga, the final twist is just the icing on the kino cake.
Also in Tai-Pan Dirk is so clever and canny and good at fostering relationships that even in the face of time and tide getting in the way of his plans they all endure. To be sure, it’s always rocky, but essentially the Noble House fared better than the Toranaga Shogunate and had a broader impact on the world.
>gets his opinions from clickbait
It's a show, not movie. And it's clear it's not hating on the white dude if they're giving him a nip gf and having scenes where he pulls a gun on samurai that makes them freak out like what we saw in the trailer.
>Book about a white guy who washes up on the shores of Japan >"This show will be about one white guy among a bunch of asians"
I don't see the problem here
It's a disingenuous article, Blackthorne wasn't depicted as the heroic white savior in the book or in the previous miniseries. He wasn't even the full-time POV in either, as well. This clickbait article was written by a gaslighting hack.
>Book about a white guy who washes up on the shores of Japan >"This show will be about one white guy among a bunch of asians"
I don't see the problem here
With the articles and some of the press statements/interviews, it really feels like they're trying to head off accusations of white saviorism right now before the show drops... Already see comments from morons saying they're skipping this show because they think it's another white savior coming to educate savages or something.
It’s funny how even quite bright people can get Shogun wrong. I had a correspondence with this author David Kirk who wrote a trilogy about Miyamoto Musashi and lived in Japan and did serious research. But in one of our emails he said he didn’t like how the plot of Shogun has “a white man showing up to Japan and becoming God.” Which was so fricking stupid and off the mark that it made me realize that most people don’t even pay attention to the clincher of the story on the last page.
>But in one of our emails he said he didn’t like how the plot of Shogun has “a white man showing up to Japan and becoming God.”
How? The worst you could realistically say is that Clavell had a weird focus on describing Anjin's massive manhood. Apart from that it followed the general beats of the actual William Adams life, which that guy should have known.
But yeah, it's the same shit as people who miss the point that The Last Samurai is Katsumoto, and not Tom Cruise's character
It’s extra juicy since the whole point is to LE SUBVERT that trope. Clavell is writing in 1975, Japan is still the evil japs from WWII in the minds of most readers. The cool 80s “all tech is japanese” era hadn’t arrived yet.
And he’s writing a story where the huwite man gets his entire civilization dunked on, adopts the style and culture of the Japanese, and becomes a cog in the political machinery of Japan. Sure, he’s got some useful information for Toronaga but he’s not making himself Shogun or converting the natives to western values and Christ.
The woketards who should be praising what the book did don’t get it. Only Chuds seem to get the message and like it anyway. Politics is moronic.
Because the nuance and context of the time it was written (and what it was even based on) is lost on people. Like look at this pic related review for the novel I found from a quick google search. Tells you all you need to know
This is the shit they always say now. If they put all their eggs in the diversity bag there would be black samurai. Hopefully it’s less moronic.
My main problem is Blackthorne guy looks like he has zero charisma. He needs to be a smart roguish character and sell it since he’s the bridge of the entire story. If he sucks the show sucks.
tfw born too late to BTFO the chinks in the opium wars and too early to watch the kino on the blond aryans slaughtering the street pooers, just in time to check the airbender movie's votes on rottentomatoes
I'm pretty sure the original was loaded with Japanese, too. This is just another case of social hacktivists who are totally incapable of creating their own shit thinking they did something great by doing a remake for ~~*MODERN AUDIENCES*~~.
Is "how cis white male is this" the only metric most critics use now?
I watched the origin Al a few months ago. There’s two main European characters.
I think women roastie losers are freaking out over white/asian relations. White girls trying to shame Asian women into thinking men are only interested because of “white savior” or “sex tourism”. It’s really pathetic and a nasty projection of their loneliness. It’s pretty much the liberal version of coal burning except they are shitting on someone supporting another person in need as if the male forced a sex contract on the girl. Really really fricking pathetic way to view your world.
for you
People seek novelties and straight white make is the default so now reboots and rehashes are sold on the same thing but with novel queer
brown gendermemes and stronk waman.
Isn't this literally what most people praised about The Last Samurai? That Algren was more like someone watching events unfold instead of actively shaping them?
Why is Cinemaphile now getting mad that this show is doing the same? Did they really want a foreigner to be named Shogun and mary sue his way through the story?
No you idiot, it’s that they can read between the lines and see exactly how this will be tarnished. Have you read Shogun? It’s not about a white man becoming the leader of anything, he becomes a retainer for the fictional stand-in of Tokugawa. The series is going to do the same gay horseshit these homosexuals always do. They’re going to fill it with darkies, queers, and stronk women, and Blackthorne’s going to be totally sidelined and act like a little fricking b***h so that Mariko can be a decisive girlboss. Frick these people I hate this shit every goddamn motherfricking time
Are you moronic? You've invented shit in your head to get mad about
NTA but a room full of women from California are incapable of writing anything other than what he described.
you're moronic
I see no refutation and accept your concession on behalf of myself and that other anon who accurately predicted what the show will be like.
you only have to wait 3 days to be proven wrong you can concede now and save yourself the embarrassment however
I didn't see any browns in the trailer.
moron, there are plenty of browns in the trailer.
Where?
no idea what this is moron identified, Toranagas samurai are called browns due to their uniform as Ishidos are called greys, its a joke clueless anon
why not cast dogs instead and make every remake like an episode of wishbone
only if the dogs have black or brown fur
Normie take please read up on the talmud
>straight white make is the default
this has only been the case in westoid countries, and it's never even been culturally homogenous. unless you want to say that 20th century media from assorted eurpoean countries was the same as whatever america calls white. because parallel to hollywood, the whole world is full of media featuring their chose ethnicity, unless you can point out all the japanese sitcoms or indian movies starring white men. it is also not going unnoticed how this hatred of whites is comorbid with objectively bad media, unless you have some canned line about how pedowood is somehow doing great.
>straight white make is the default so
Not even subtle bait.
To be honest in this case it's fine they're moving away from Blackthorne more. Much of the best part of the novel was the political intrigue, and Blackthorne was only a part of it. The romance wasn't as entertaining.
>calling Anjin San by his gaijin name
>Michaela Clavell, a daughter of the author and chief executive of a company that manages Clavell’s literary estate, said her father, who died in 1994, was proud of the original mini-series. But she recognized that it was of its time and wanted to update it.
>“We only can do what we can do at any given real time moment, right?” she said. “In 20 years, we may look back on this and say, ‘Well, that was …’ fill in the blank.”
so if it was Blackedthorne instead we'd be getting full frontal?
Eh whatever, what matters more is Kiku and Fujiko
>But she recognized that it was too old for zoomers and wanted to get a fat paycheck.
fixed
>Well, that was …shit
>liberals themselves acknowledging their ever moving goalpost as a thing
personally I like when they openly advocate for historical revisionism
>even prog-zombies are being forcibly made aware of their own movement's Presentism and pattern of demonizing the past
Good, the next step is for the frustration to set in and them eventually giving up on progressivism entirely. It's hard for even the most cognitive-dissonance-tolerant person to support a movement where they KNOW that, sooner or later, they themselves will be demonized and denigrated.
lmao a story about a white male going to a foreign country and becoming embroiled in local culture which is based in historical fact
is controversial or a relic of the past
this is why I won't be watch this shit
these people are stupid
this is why you should always make all your works public domain in your will, leaving it to an estate never works out. ever
>we need to update this already created thing for modern audiences
not again
I appreciate her small bit of self awareness in acknowledging that in 20 years people may find issues with this version. Often these people make it sound like the past was fundamentally wrong and they are fundamentally right, and what they do will never be questioned because it is ontologically good.
but it's being questioned and refuted right now
no need to wait for the future.
these people are idiot ideologs
>the future is just "updating" existing stories for political reasons, forever
To be fair, humanity has been doing that forever. And it will never end. Compare a translation of Homer from 1500s with one from the 1700s with one from the 1800s with one from the 1900s.
True but it's not them adapting say Robin Hood every two hundred years, or telling vaguely similar stories of Hero and Villain but with the values of the time changed around. This is literally the same story, updated for no reason, in less than a generation. I'm sure Shogun is a good book and all that, but it's nowhere near the relevance or importance of Homer et al.
And all this for a bunch of news values that are, let's be honest, incredibly shit
>literally missed the abomination that was Robyn Hood
You underestimate Hollywood's avarice.
It's revolting. A parasitic mindset that disrespects source.
))<>((
>“We only can do what we can do at any given real time moment, right?”
This doesn't mean anything
Hey So basically I'm just gonna not watch your remake I Know..... UGH I know...
It's just that I'm not gonna watch it is all
HAHAHAHAHA HAHA
>And despite the frank portrayal of sexuality in the novel, Sawai refused to film any nude scenes.
>“I don’t want to end up being in ‘Shogun’ and going full nude and putting myself into that pigeonhole, or the stereotype of the Asian woman taking her clothes off and seducing a white guy,” Sawai said during an interview at a cafe in Tokyo.
>Sawai won't be nude
Oh no no no coomer bros
what are we going to do
>I didn't want to portray my character correctly because I'm a prudish self-absorbed c**t
There will be no shortage of male nudity, I'm sure. Man-ass at the very least, but probably more because frick you, that's why.
bet she has a white boyfriend
I shallnt be watching
>the stereotype of the Asian woman taking her clothes off and seducing a white guy
wait, is that a stereotype? I can't remember seeing it in anything.
See literally every Asian girls private diaries and fanfics
Happens all the time in real life.
I don't want to see Nippon nips but she absolutely has a White boyfriend.
Sawai a pirrow shit.
Oh man you fat kids are not going to like the scene where Blackthorne is weeping with rage and shame about how his people are so dirty and brutish compared to the Japs
Can't help that Blackthorne was born in a time that Europe decided to abandon hygiene for a few centuries
Was it really that bad? I can imagine sailors and other shipmates sailing the seas would be filthy af but why anyone else?
He's one of those puddinghead POCs who believe blacks invented everything and all white people were filthy in europe and wore wigs because they lice etc etc etc
Buck-breaking cope.
This anon
is a reactionary moron.
That said, it wasn't as bad as some pop historians would have you believe. The issue was a matter of practicality and culture - at the time not many people had the means/wealth to heat a warm bath for a significant period of time, so instead they opted to use cloth dipped in hot water to wipe themselves say once a week. Another issue is that at the time it was believed steam and "vapors" were vectors of disease, so bathing in hot water was seen as counter intuitive at the time to actually being healthy. Finally, there were public bath houses, but the church had been skeptical of them because of public nudity so people weren't as likely to go to them
Add all this together, and you get a time period and culture where filth was more common and somewhat accepted
>people took what was basically spung baths and several times a day permitted and then would bath as we know it given the opportunity probably once or twice a week permitted. if you where wealthy or had access it would be more
the idea that people where just horribly dirty is stupid. people used to devote a lot more time to hygiene then than they do today to
>was believed steam and "vapors" were vectors of disease
this is false modern bull shit
No it isn't their is a wealth of accounts of this from the time
>No it isn't their is a wealth of accounts of this from the time
um no sweetie you are conflating historical accounts and its there!
could you try to not post like such a homosexual from here on?
you sir are the only homosexual here
regurgitating tired pop pseudo historical garbage
Europeans in times passed rightly made the connection between water and transmission of harmful pathogens making them wary of water
regardless they still washed but differently from your modern spa like bathing regium which is a European practice after all
i see your homosexualry continues unabated
Ridiculous pop bullshit. (which is why only Clavell's fiction mentions it and not japanese primary sources)
The Brits closed some public baths, which doubled as brothels, because of the spread of disease.
Yet no mention by other sources like traders from central european nations who never bothered shutting down any that they were any more unclean than per usual.
And public baths were gathering places of the poor, ill, and malcontent beyond being brothels which festered diseases. Which people at the time misattributed to vapors and bad airs because they didn't have germ theory, so they avoided regular hot baths for that reason. The most common method of cleanliness was as I mentioned, dipping cloths in cold and 'perfumed' waters to wipe the hands, feet, neck and face. Occasionally workers would dip in ponds and rivers as well to wipe off more encrusted grime. Only royalty bathed and cleaned with any sense of modern regularity, but that was also again somewhat mitigated by the old beliefs in disease being transmitted by vapors, airs and bad smells.
While I agree with you, I thought they actually boiled the water, as the experts at the time insisted you should scrub yourself until your skin was "pinkish and glowing."
They might have prior to, but generally the water when dipped in was cold or at least lukewarm iirc.
and Japanese peasants had hot showers and saunas every day?
Generally yes, they had and were not adverse to public bathhouses like Europeans were (for the stated reasons).
How much was Japan affected by the black death?
BBD
no its stupid
big moron shit. maybe they did this for a generation or so after the black death because of the insane trauma of that, but not at any other points
Things didn't start to change until the 18th century idiot. And this isn't even a knock on Europeans like you think it is. Their habits were based on the best logic they had at the time. They didn't know about germs, they just knew that places you could get sick from (waste, filth, swamps, bathhouses plagued by syphilis outbreaks, etc) had bad smells or noticeable airs or vapors from them, so they just assumed that must have been it, and acted accordingly.
>Europeans
>their habits
Literally only Anglos and Frogs believed in that shit and it wasn't for 200 years like you seem to think.
You know, it is kind of funny to me that all thew rest of the world really has on Europe is YOU DID NOT BATH.
When at the time of the sailing of huge ships round the world having no end of art stories and culture written down by europeans.
The blacks still danced around fire and shoved bones in their noses. The Native muricans were scalping and eating each other worshiping great wind spirit.
The Chinese just stopped being innovators, and just spent years upon years in power struggles and civil war.
It is why they seethe so much at euro descendants. We had to drag them kicking and screaming in to the modern world.
If the blacks made huge ships first, you would be hearing about the Metembu Empire instead of the British one and i bet they would not have been as kind to other peoples as well. Perhaps even worse than a bit of farm help and whipping.
>bad smells are strongly believed to carry disease
>but also nobody washed and everyone stank like shit 24/7
>what contradiction?
Poor people weren't running a hot bath every evening, no shit, but this idea that people only dabbed themselves once a week is revisionist garbage peddled by Classics-worshipping gaygoid "academics" who desperately wanted middle ages people to be 'orrible filthy scum so their previous Meds would look better by comparison. Contemporary accounts - though admittedly few survive - suggest that people used washcloths regularly, even multiple times a day for some who worked manual jobs, and your deliberate use of dainty language to minimise the process is incredibly disingenuous - have you ever vigorously rubbed yourself with a rough old towel? "Wiping" suggests something far less thorough. An *honest* assessment of the historical record suggests most people would use the washcloth daily, and with hot water whenever possible, with bathing done whenever the opportunity arose.
Would they be fragrant and spotless like a modern poofter such as yourself? Obviously not they couldn't just order soap and deoderant off fricking Amazon, but the notion of the rancid, filthy, boil-encrusted peasant is as fictional as knights slaying dragons - one of the lies just remains useful to the modern upper classes.
The truth is we can never know! And who knows what our distant ancestors will assume about us! We are all connected and blurred by time!
the wash basin was in use since before the middle ages
people generally weren't as clean as today on average but your correct that it is heavily exaggerated.
Public baths as brothels? Why did we let go of that?
the Japanese ass stank too dont be fooled
people in general were less clean than today but people still practiced hygiene
they typically did it more often but less thoroughly.
Don't worry I don't know anyone that'll be watching it.
People just don't like seeing shitskins receive praise they never deserve. Japs are honorary whites.
This. As a white supremacist I feel great pride in asian reating us as inferior, as we deserve.
>white supremacist
>whites are inferior to asians
Nice larp, Chang.
Manlets cannot treat anyone as inferior.
Miura Anjin was probably history’s first weeb anyway.
>IT'S OUR TURN
I’m assuming they missed the lady Samurai and the fricking Shogun? The guy who carries the title of the book?
Eh, the novel portrayed the Japanese as savage, weird, and pretty creepy at times so I’ll take that.
>savage, weird, and pretty creepy
I love Japanese people as much as the next weeb but that sounds fairly accurate.
>the Japanese as savage, weird, and pretty creepy
You're not aware of their wider history, then?
The Japanese were savages to the European mindset and vice versa.
The story is fine and doesn't need updating. People are such dopes.
Think about it from his perspective - would you rather take a perilous 2 year long trip back to England to see your withered before her time wife with rotting teeth, lice, and dirt who bathes at most once a month? Or stay in Japan with your clean and cute waifu who washes and massages you in the hot spring bath daily
Adams wasn't allowed to leave Japan afaik.
He left a couple of times, he just never made it back to England, and to be fair, he probably didn't want to by the time he'd been granted land and title by the Tokugawa. He was much wealthier in Japan than he would have been at home.
You make a good case
The scene where he goes to see his old mates and realizes how disgusting they are is pure kino though
cope weeb
How is Blackthorn a hero? And the original mini-series has Mariko and Torungawa as well as those swarthy hispanics in both the church and the black ship as 'stars'.
we are talking about narratives here
dont ask questions
>kalaedoscopic
Surely there's an easier word for this
>kalaedoscopic
A... are they using it as a functional stand in for "multicultural"?
Why would they? It's literally monocultural as frick, besides Anjin and the few Portuguese characters
Anon not sure where you've been but anyone non white is considered kaleidoscopic. Thus a movie that is all black or all asian is considered extremely diverse.
>WHITE MAN BAD
I find it bizarre how little I care about race. Is race really that fricking interesting? Is race all you americans have to talk about?
Why do you hate White People so much?
White people tried not caring about race for about 40 years, then most of them realized that nobody else followed suit and just used the opportunity to fortify against whites while their defenses were down.
this but to be fair whites were forced to be cucks for over 70 years
>muh Americans
>probably from some arm-pit of Europe that was Pozzed to Death LONG before America ever even started letting its guard down.
It was written for a non-Japanese audience. Jidaigeki is 100% Japanese, nativist, Japanese supremacy all the time.
>Sanada advised the cast and crew on period authenticity, given his experience acting in historical dramas in Japan. He helped teach Anna Sawai, who plays Toda Mariko, a samurai’s wife and Blackthorne’s interpreter, to speak in classical Japanese locutions.
LOL Mariko actor isn't even Japanese
Finding a talented Japanese actress that is fluent in English to a native level that can carry a show as a lead is probably really hard
>Anna Sawai was born on June 11, 1992, in Wellington, New Zealand to parents of Japanese descent.[3] Her mother trained in opera performance and later worked as a piano teacher,[4] while her father worked for an electronics company.[5] From age 3, her mother taught her how to play the piano and how to sing.[3] Her family moved frequently while growing up due to her father's job, living in Hong Kong and the Philippines, before settling in Yokohama, Japan at age 10
She’s Japanese but she had to learn the old-timey samurai manner of speaking. It’s like the difference between Shakespearean/Elizabethan English and present day English.
>For the writers’ room, the couple selected mostly Asian American women.
aaaaand dropped.
WOMEN WOMEN WOMEN
EVERYTHING WILL BE WOMEN
AND YET, TOO MANY THINGS WILL BE MEN!
WOMEN OWN THE WORLD, WOMEN ARE THE FUTURE. YET, DESPITE THIS, WOMEN ARE THE VICTIMS.
lmao I didn't catch that.
Yeah it's completely fricked beyond all hope.
So it's basically going to be WMAF for hours?
Well it will start with white hate but end up there yeah.
>And despite the frank portrayal of sexuality in the novel, Sawai refused to film any nude scenes.
>“I don’t want to end up being in ‘Shogun’ and going full nude and putting myself into that pigeonhole, or the stereotype of the Asian woman taking her clothes off and seducing a white guy,” Sawai said during an interview at a cafe in Tokyo.
oh goody.
>And despite the frank portrayal of sexuality in the novel
When does this happen?
Just a reminder that Blackthorn's Japanese descendants survive to 1862 (Gai-Jin) and 1963 (Noble House).
I just finished Gai-Jin and while I am a colossal Clavell fan, I felt pretty let down by the ending. Nothing seemed to matter. I was pretty crushed by what happened to Malcolm, though. Really wanted to see Hag Struan appear.
> I just finished Gai-Jin and while I am a colossal Clavell fan, I felt pretty let down by the ending. Nothing seemed to matter. I was pretty crushed by what happened to Malcolm, though.
While Gai-Jin is a weak novel Struan-wise, the Japanese parts are pretty good and it could be done as a decent tv series with some work.
> Really wanted to see Hag Struan appear.
It's a shame Clavell didn't write more stories within the Asian Saga timeline, I particularly like the alt-historical reference to The Hag having to honor one of Dirk Struan's broken coins from Sun Yat-Sen, making the Noble House a part of the 1911 Chinese Revolution. I coulda been cool.
I'd like to see a Clavell-verse happen, with tv mini-series of his novels as they're great books but with how woketarded Hollywood is nowadays, it would most likely be shit. Though one could hope that with the conservative Japanese (Shogun and Gai-Jin) and Chinese (Tai-Pan and Noble House) influences on the productions, it might be saved?
Shōgun - Japan in 1600
Tai-Pan - Hong Kong in 1841
Gai-Jin - Japan in 1862
Noble House - Hong Kong in 1963
I wouldn't bother redoing King Rat (set in a Japanese POW camp in Singapore during WWII) as it doesn't really fit the series of stories, nor does Whirlwind (Iran in 1979) though that could be done.
My life’s dream would be to adapt Tai-Pan as maybe a 3 season tv series. The movie with Brian Brown had some OK moments but basically focused on the love relationship between Dirk and May-May. I haven’t seen the Pierce Brosnan 80’s Noble House but it’s been pretty well forgotten, so I doubt it really hit the mark.
A series like that would go over super well today because you’d have the swinging 60’s look and KC Tcholock is like the best girlboss character modern writers could never actually think up.
The Japanese parts of Gai-Jin are good but don’t measure up to Shogun, which may have just been a theme of the novel anyway. Yoshi Toranaga had all the makings of a great Shogun who could set everything right but was waylaid by Japan’s culture of red tape and bullshit. So in essence he actually wasn’t as good as the original Toranaga since he always found a way to make everything work to his advantage. I think Clavell was just too sick and out of steam to write like he did for Shogun. There was just too many perspective characters, too. You have Angelique, Malcolm, Jamie, the Doctors, Yoshi, all the different agents of Sonno-joī, etc. where Shogun just dealt with the perspectives of Blackthorne and Toranaga.
>My life’s dream would be to adapt Tai-Pan as maybe a 3 season tv series. The movie with Brian Brown had some OK moments but basically focused on the love relationship between Dirk and May-May.
Tai-Pan was the first Clavell novel I read and the best IMO and while the movie was ok and Brian Brown was perfect as Dirk Struan, it was a one-off theatrical movie and not a tv mini-series and so most of the story is dropped and condensed.
>I haven’t seen the Pierce Brosnan 80’s Noble House but it’s been pretty well forgotten, so I doubt it really hit the mark.
It's pretty meh, though Pierce Brosnan was perfect for the role. Dunno who I'd cast today, maybe Henry Cavill?
>It's pretty meh, though Pierce Brosnan was perfect for the role. Dunno who I'd cast today, maybe Henry Cavill?
unpopular opinion: i liked the three more modern novels (King Rat, Noble House, Whirlwind) more than the old setting, with the exception of Shogun
King Rat is autobiographical fiction like Empire of the Sun
I didn't really enjoy King Rat the first time I read it but I appreciated it the second time I read it. Tai-pan is easily the best of his books though.
That's kind of the point the book, both Japanese and westerners are swept along by events and all their individual plans turn to shit. This blackpill theme is also in King Rat and Whirlwind, its only Shogun where there is a clear 9000 IQ winner in Toranaga, the final twist is just the icing on the kino cake.
>its only Shogun where there is a clear 9000 IQ winner in Toranaga
Ian Dunross in Noble House gets away with some serious bullet dodging.
Also in Tai-Pan Dirk is so clever and canny and good at fostering relationships that even in the face of time and tide getting in the way of his plans they all endure. To be sure, it’s always rocky, but essentially the Noble House fared better than the Toranaga Shogunate and had a broader impact on the world.
Hollywood will show to Japs how to make a good tv show
Not one jap made show is good
>white people pay for this movie
>white people we hate you.
I’m sure this will help.
>gets his opinions from clickbait
It's a show, not movie. And it's clear it's not hating on the white dude if they're giving him a nip gf and having scenes where he pulls a gun on samurai that makes them freak out like what we saw in the trailer.
it's a befalling business decision
most people dont pay attention to these trade rags so in a why their lessening exposer gives them cover
Sadly
The critic is definitely an annoying gay but the best parts of Shogun are the clans, politics and subterfuge. The white parts were always the worst.
Last time he was only one of the stars as well
Cinemaphile judges things by how woke it is.
What are we thinking so far white savior sisters?
>female with a sword
mmm
holy shit this looks like complete kino
how will they frick it up
kek
Omi and I assume thats Jan Roper with the gold teeth are spot on casting
looks good
The writer
https://www.nytco.com/person/motoko-rich/
Oy vey!
>Book about a white guy who washes up on the shores of Japan
>"This show will be about one white guy among a bunch of asians"
I don't see the problem here
It's a disingenuous article, Blackthorne wasn't depicted as the heroic white savior in the book or in the previous miniseries. He wasn't even the full-time POV in either, as well. This clickbait article was written by a gaslighting hack.
With the articles and some of the press statements/interviews, it really feels like they're trying to head off accusations of white saviorism right now before the show drops... Already see comments from morons saying they're skipping this show because they think it's another white savior coming to educate savages or something.
It’s funny how even quite bright people can get Shogun wrong. I had a correspondence with this author David Kirk who wrote a trilogy about Miyamoto Musashi and lived in Japan and did serious research. But in one of our emails he said he didn’t like how the plot of Shogun has “a white man showing up to Japan and becoming God.” Which was so fricking stupid and off the mark that it made me realize that most people don’t even pay attention to the clincher of the story on the last page.
>But in one of our emails he said he didn’t like how the plot of Shogun has “a white man showing up to Japan and becoming God.”
How? The worst you could realistically say is that Clavell had a weird focus on describing Anjin's massive manhood. Apart from that it followed the general beats of the actual William Adams life, which that guy should have known.
But yeah, it's the same shit as people who miss the point that The Last Samurai is Katsumoto, and not Tom Cruise's character
It’s extra juicy since the whole point is to LE SUBVERT that trope. Clavell is writing in 1975, Japan is still the evil japs from WWII in the minds of most readers. The cool 80s “all tech is japanese” era hadn’t arrived yet.
And he’s writing a story where the huwite man gets his entire civilization dunked on, adopts the style and culture of the Japanese, and becomes a cog in the political machinery of Japan. Sure, he’s got some useful information for Toronaga but he’s not making himself Shogun or converting the natives to western values and Christ.
The woketards who should be praising what the book did don’t get it. Only Chuds seem to get the message and like it anyway. Politics is moronic.
Because the nuance and context of the time it was written (and what it was even based on) is lost on people. Like look at this pic related review for the novel I found from a quick google search. Tells you all you need to know
lool
it's almost as if they are projecting.
hmm
The article was clearly written by someone that never watched the first Shogun miniseries.
what a surprise
This is the shit they always say now. If they put all their eggs in the diversity bag there would be black samurai. Hopefully it’s less moronic.
My main problem is Blackthorne guy looks like he has zero charisma. He needs to be a smart roguish character and sell it since he’s the bridge of the entire story. If he sucks the show sucks.
He does at least have a nice deep voice.
There better be some African Japanese in there
there's not and aside from the strok woman fighting shit this looks like it could be pretty based
Weeeeb
Give it to me straight, are they gonna shoehorn Yasuke into this?
No
Guaranteed.
Main reason why i'm not going to watch it.
You're both fricking idiots
At the time period of the show, homie samurai has been shipped back to slavery.
Kind of like how chuds only metric is "how white and redpilled is this" innit?
Why are they all so bald?
tfw born too late to BTFO the chinks in the opium wars and too early to watch the kino on the blond aryans slaughtering the street pooers, just in time to check the airbender movie's votes on rottentomatoes
You sound black and 12.
you sound mad and 12 iq
and brown of course
>two tickets to 'Shogun Remake' please
he eats his ramen with his hands
I tried to picture that in my head. I lol'd.
i'm thinking it's orera no jikan da
cringe
I'm pretty sure the original was loaded with Japanese, too. This is just another case of social hacktivists who are totally incapable of creating their own shit thinking they did something great by doing a remake for ~~*MODERN AUDIENCES*~~.
I watched the origin Al a few months ago. There’s two main European characters.
I think women roastie losers are freaking out over white/asian relations. White girls trying to shame Asian women into thinking men are only interested because of “white savior” or “sex tourism”. It’s really pathetic and a nasty projection of their loneliness. It’s pretty much the liberal version of coal burning except they are shitting on someone supporting another person in need as if the male forced a sex contract on the girl. Really really fricking pathetic way to view your world.
you should see white boy rage and confusion when white women run off with asian men... It must be that homosexual k-pop stuff, right?
>white
>white boy rage when less than 1% of couplings happen
with all this updating for modern audiences why don't modern audiences flock to these things? they should be huge successes.
anon the second-biggest movie this year was a 3-hour drama about making the atomic bomb.