Minus One was just a bunch of pissy clowns talking about how bad Japan is. Makes you wonder why they wanted to defend it. >Imperial Japan sucks, modern Japan sucks, the government doesn't care about us >I WANNA DEFEND MY COUNTRY SO I CAN CONTINUE BEING OPPRESSED
>Makes you wonder why they wanted to defend it.
I don't know, maybe because not getting killed by Godzilla is a preferable alternative to getting killed by Godzilla. Also if you watch films by Japanese directors who came of age during the war they are very critical of Japan for the way it treated its people as disposable and place the blame for American occupation and industrialization on the Japanese leaders who allowed it and made it worse by pushing traditional honor values into companies as if they were family. The anti-American attitude you see in later Japanese movies came from directors who were too young or not alive to remember the war so they blame America for all of their problems and feel like they were robbed the opportunity to live in their own unique culture because they never experienced just how horrible Japan was during the WWII era. I don't know if Godzilla Minus One adopted the old attitude to be a throwback to the earliest Japanese WWII movies or if it indicates the pendulum swinging back and younger Japanese filmmakers realizing Japan deserves some of the blame for their own actions, but I guess time will tell.
Currently watching this, and I'm annoyed by official subitltes.
They are constantly wrong, I don't even speak Japanese but I have seen most of this pharases in anime, and know they are improper.
For example, the woman says: >sumimasen
And the subtitle says "I don't know"
when sumimasen actually means "I'm sorry"
It feels like watching goddam dub titles.
You are moronic? The whole theme is survival's guild, everyone tell if he had killed himself everything would have been fine. When at the same time, demonstrating that even if he had died, it wouldn't have changed anything, like it's strongly implies even if he had tried to shoot Godzilla in the beginning, he wouldn't have been able to damage it.
No >we're invading China/east Asia and looking at a possible war with Russia >what shall we do? Let's go to war with America too!
WW2 was just morons getting into unwinnable wars
>desperation
As in expansion rested on quickly reducing the amount of US steel floating in the pacific. >the war was essentially already over.
According to US propaganda which dominated the world. Many of the most important battles were lost due to weird unlucky moments. In their subconscious they lost to the same divine wind that protected them before in their foundation myth.
>Many of the most important battles were lost due to weird unlucky moments
No, they were lost due to lack of experience, incompetence and compounded by their moronic honor system, where every frick up was punished by death, so they could never learn from their mistakes.
>Many of the most important battles were lost due to weird unlucky moments
No, they were lost due to lack of experience, incompetence and compounded by their moronic honor system, where every frick up was punished by death, so they could never learn from their mistakes.
Japan lost because the US's population and industrial base was many times larger than Japan's. Both of you are up your ass with gay headcanon.
The industrial base of the US has nothing to do with the lack of tactical prowess of the Japanese, you fricking moron.
They specifically lost battles because of what I stated.
You lost at life because you're dumb as frick. Japanese people were not "punished with death" for every failure in the 40s, that's a child's understanding of history.
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Where did I say the Japanese people were punished with death for every failure in the 40's?
>The practice had been widely praised in army propaganda, which featured a soldier captured by the Chinese in the Shanghai Incident (1932) who returned to the site of his capture to perform seppuku.[41] In 1944, Hideyoshi Obata, a Lieutenant General in the Imperial Japanese Army, committed seppuku in Yigo, Guam following the Allied victory over the Japanese in the Second Battle of Guam.[42] Obata was posthumously promoted to the rank of general. >Many other high-ranking military officials of Imperial Japan would go on to commit seppuku toward the latter half of World War II in 1944 and 1945,[43][34] as the tide of the war turned against the Japanese, and it became clear that a Japanese victory of the war was not achievable.[44][45][46]
The Japanese system was based on a Prussian model of total obedience, combined with their moronic honor system and zealousness for their God emperor, there was very little tolerance of failure.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Where did I say the Japanese people were punished with death for every failure in the 40's?
You are incredibly stupid.
"No, they were lost due to lack of experience, incompetence and compounded by their moronic honor system, where every frick up was punished by death, so they could never learn from their mistakes."
"where every frick up was punished by death,"
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Many other high-ranking military officials of Imperial Japan would go on to commit seppuku toward the latter half of World War II in 1944 and 1945,[43][34] as the tide of the war turned against the Japanese, and it became clear that a Japanese victory of the war was not achievable.[44][45][46]
>Japan lost because the US's population and industrial base was many times larger than Japan's.
They knew that which is why this would only work if done quickly. The US exerting power was inevitable either way.
In the like 3 battles that actually decided if this strategy would work both sides constantly acted like blind idiots, which is understandable since nobody in history had ever done anything remotely similar.
But the American blind idiots consistently stumbled on the right spot at the right time due to some drunk moron not following any orders.
Not maintaining their expansion is different from complete surrender, they could have kept going for a decade if they really wanted. The nukes weren't that big of deal, fire bombings killed more people and everyone knew there weren't that many nukes already produced at that time. Over time it doesn't matter even a little bit in the face of overwhelming propaganda so to actually win they would have to defend their home island while also producing top tier kino.
There was never a single moment when Japan could have won the war. They started the war out of desperation with a flawed understand of American capabilities and objectives. Pearl Harbor was a Hail-Mary play to take out as many American carriers as possible to force a quick peace on generous terms; they did not manage to sink even one. Even the Japanese understood by Midway (1942) at the latest that the war was lost. The next three years were merely settling how total the defeat would be.
Their mistake was assuming the US was organized and capable. They couldn't predict that some lost moron with no fuel would find their carriers at the worst possible moment. Japan had kamikaze attack pilots but the US apparently had kamikaze scouts.
The guys flying the Douglas Dauntless might as well have been kamikaze pilots, I guess you could say that for any naval dive bomber though, especially striking a carrier force.
yes. that's why we had to nuke them. they would not stop, and their women and children would take to the fight after in the final wave by becoming kamikaze attackers too. they'd fly right over the pacific to strike our cities on te coast
Japanese had no problems committing war crimes themselves.
For example, they would use the red cross markings on ships carrying ammo, yet their massive barges carrying prisoners as human cattle would be left unmarked, leading to several incidents of PoW ships being sunk by their own guys.
People were crushed, starved and dehydrated in those ships, there was no natural light, no airflow, they were forced in there and the latch was shut.
Nukes are definitely real, and not rehearsed conventionals laced with radioactive materials, that was just for the test footage, no idea what you're talking about.
Why is killing a hundred thousand people with a nuclear bomb worse than killing a hundred thousand people with conventional bombs? There's nothing uniquely horrible about the nuclear bombings, Japanese cities were already being bombed and civilians were already dying in large numbers.
>in over their heads stuck in the China quagmire >getting BTFO by the Soviets even before they engaged total war mode >decide they might as well piss off the Western powers and attack them too
Nah
Japan invasion was planned for the next month basically
It would have been horrible for both japanese and american in terms of lost tho
Japan wouldn't be the same today
Soviets were being held back by america from entering, they were going to invade from the north while US hit the south. Japs would have lost most of their population if Hirohito had it his way before the nukes. He was ready to throw everyone into the meatgrinder.
The nuclear bombs weren't even a consideration in the decision to surrender. The IJN had been destroyed or forced to port for lack of fuel and that summer literally the 40 (FORTY) largest cities bar Edo had been destroyed in nights of single firebombing comparable or worse than the atomic bombings. The IJA had no real air defences to stop these bombings, and their economy wasn't like Germany's that had almost a century of industrialization building multiple redundancies for every level and loop of supply chains. Submarine warfare had obliterated their merchant marine and mining endangered transport in between the islands. Their last gambit was forcing the Allies to take as many casualties as possible, but because of the Casablanca Conference's call for unconditional surrender (undesirable because it could put the position of the Emperor at risk) they were hoping for the USSR to mediate a peace agreement. When Stalin declared war they had to face the music.
>to modern day Japan.
By Unconditional surrender to the US meaning they no longer have their autocracy. The US spent billions rebuilding Japan as they felt a moral obligation to do so, then the Korean war broke out in the 50s. The closest ally in the region for the US was Japan, so the US had Japan start manufacturing goods for the war and that was a huge boost to the Jap economy. Early on they did what all young nations do and steal intellectual property, infringe on copyrights etc. Then eventually branched out into their own products, companies like Honda and Sony eventually making their mark with products better than anywhere else in the world.
frick no. The Kamikaze were an act of last ditch desperation by General Tojo. The Japanese were outmanned, and outgunned 5:1 by the USA. it got to the point where they were demanding women and children fight and die for Japan. The nukes were the last bit of "back the frick off" until they got the goddamn point, because Eisenhower and Patton were preparing to march onto Japanese soil and start physically removing members of the military and Parliament.
>every kamikaze pilot does their job >Have no pilots left to defend your cities
The Japanese pilot training programs were laughably slow and inefficient and their pilots simply died faster then they could ever be trained, even without kamikaze tactics
Japan didn’t really have the industry to beat the US and it was massively overstretched, bogged down in China and many of its forces in South East Asia being cut off from supplies.
They wouldn't have won, but it would had been very painful for the US.
In fact, the most efficient Japan ever got were the Kamikaze, it was very effective against the US Fleet.
So, if every Kamikaze did their job, yes, the US could had loose their fleets.
But thats just mean the war would had been longer.
...No
then the thesis of Godzilla Minus One is wrong.
Minus One was just a bunch of pissy clowns talking about how bad Japan is. Makes you wonder why they wanted to defend it.
>Imperial Japan sucks, modern Japan sucks, the government doesn't care about us
>I WANNA DEFEND MY COUNTRY SO I CAN CONTINUE BEING OPPRESSED
>Makes you wonder why they wanted to defend it.
maybe because of the people?
>Makes you wonder why they wanted to defend it.
I don't know, maybe because not getting killed by Godzilla is a preferable alternative to getting killed by Godzilla. Also if you watch films by Japanese directors who came of age during the war they are very critical of Japan for the way it treated its people as disposable and place the blame for American occupation and industrialization on the Japanese leaders who allowed it and made it worse by pushing traditional honor values into companies as if they were family. The anti-American attitude you see in later Japanese movies came from directors who were too young or not alive to remember the war so they blame America for all of their problems and feel like they were robbed the opportunity to live in their own unique culture because they never experienced just how horrible Japan was during the WWII era. I don't know if Godzilla Minus One adopted the old attitude to be a throwback to the earliest Japanese WWII movies or if it indicates the pendulum swinging back and younger Japanese filmmakers realizing Japan deserves some of the blame for their own actions, but I guess time will tell.
The movie went out of the way at every turn to talk about how stupid Japan is, what are you talking about
Currently watching this, and I'm annoyed by official subitltes.
They are constantly wrong, I don't even speak Japanese but I have seen most of this pharases in anime, and know they are improper.
For example, the woman says:
>sumimasen
And the subtitle says "I don't know"
when sumimasen actually means "I'm sorry"
It feels like watching goddam dub titles.
You are moronic? The whole theme is survival's guild, everyone tell if he had killed himself everything would have been fine. When at the same time, demonstrating that even if he had died, it wouldn't have changed anything, like it's strongly implies even if he had tried to shoot Godzilla in the beginning, he wouldn't have been able to damage it.
Were they just grazing the ships?
Lol no that's delusional revisionist bullshit
No
>we're invading China/east Asia and looking at a possible war with Russia
>what shall we do? Let's go to war with America too!
WW2 was just morons getting into unwinnable wars
this,two powers doing just that
and the other "power" was a complete joke and couldn't accomplish a single invasion by its own
let's not forget the moronation of the minor axis powers that all bickered about each other's territory
unironic cuck behavior
No.
By the time they were using Kamikaze, it was out of desparation, the war was essentially already over.
>desperation
As in expansion rested on quickly reducing the amount of US steel floating in the pacific.
>the war was essentially already over.
According to US propaganda which dominated the world. Many of the most important battles were lost due to weird unlucky moments. In their subconscious they lost to the same divine wind that protected them before in their foundation myth.
>Many of the most important battles were lost due to weird unlucky moments
Big cope, colossal even.
>Many of the most important battles were lost due to weird unlucky moments
No, they were lost due to lack of experience, incompetence and compounded by their moronic honor system, where every frick up was punished by death, so they could never learn from their mistakes.
Japan lost because the US's population and industrial base was many times larger than Japan's. Both of you are up your ass with gay headcanon.
The industrial base of the US has nothing to do with the lack of tactical prowess of the Japanese, you fricking moron.
They specifically lost battles because of what I stated.
You lost at life because you're dumb as frick. Japanese people were not "punished with death" for every failure in the 40s, that's a child's understanding of history.
Are you being intentionally obtuse?
Where did I say the Japanese people were punished with death for every failure in the 40's?
>The practice had been widely praised in army propaganda, which featured a soldier captured by the Chinese in the Shanghai Incident (1932) who returned to the site of his capture to perform seppuku.[41] In 1944, Hideyoshi Obata, a Lieutenant General in the Imperial Japanese Army, committed seppuku in Yigo, Guam following the Allied victory over the Japanese in the Second Battle of Guam.[42] Obata was posthumously promoted to the rank of general.
>Many other high-ranking military officials of Imperial Japan would go on to commit seppuku toward the latter half of World War II in 1944 and 1945,[43][34] as the tide of the war turned against the Japanese, and it became clear that a Japanese victory of the war was not achievable.[44][45][46]
The Japanese system was based on a Prussian model of total obedience, combined with their moronic honor system and zealousness for their God emperor, there was very little tolerance of failure.
>Where did I say the Japanese people were punished with death for every failure in the 40's?
You are incredibly stupid.
"No, they were lost due to lack of experience, incompetence and compounded by their moronic honor system, where every frick up was punished by death, so they could never learn from their mistakes."
"where every frick up was punished by death,"
>Many other high-ranking military officials of Imperial Japan would go on to commit seppuku toward the latter half of World War II in 1944 and 1945,[43][34] as the tide of the war turned against the Japanese, and it became clear that a Japanese victory of the war was not achievable.[44][45][46]
>Japan lost because the US's population and industrial base was many times larger than Japan's.
They knew that which is why this would only work if done quickly. The US exerting power was inevitable either way.
In the like 3 battles that actually decided if this strategy would work both sides constantly acted like blind idiots, which is understandable since nobody in history had ever done anything remotely similar.
But the American blind idiots consistently stumbled on the right spot at the right time due to some drunk moron not following any orders.
Not maintaining their expansion is different from complete surrender, they could have kept going for a decade if they really wanted. The nukes weren't that big of deal, fire bombings killed more people and everyone knew there weren't that many nukes already produced at that time. Over time it doesn't matter even a little bit in the face of overwhelming propaganda so to actually win they would have to defend their home island while also producing top tier kino.
japan can win all of those battles and it will make not an iota of difference.
In 1942 the US had 12 carriers in production, Japan had 1.
What are you smoking?
Taiho, 5 Unryu class. Cut the Shinano, Hiyo and Junyo if you're beomg a purist
Your point isn't wrong but there's no need to lie
Popped in to say this.
Also there are some great exhibits about the tokutai (what Japanese called kamikaze, short for tokubetsu kougekitai) at the Yasukuni museum.
There was never a single moment when Japan could have won the war. They started the war out of desperation with a flawed understand of American capabilities and objectives. Pearl Harbor was a Hail-Mary play to take out as many American carriers as possible to force a quick peace on generous terms; they did not manage to sink even one. Even the Japanese understood by Midway (1942) at the latest that the war was lost. The next three years were merely settling how total the defeat would be.
Their mistake was assuming the US was organized and capable. They couldn't predict that some lost moron with no fuel would find their carriers at the worst possible moment. Japan had kamikaze attack pilots but the US apparently had kamikaze scouts.
The guys flying the Douglas Dauntless might as well have been kamikaze pilots, I guess you could say that for any naval dive bomber though, especially striking a carrier force.
I was rooting for Japan in this movie. Frick Godzilla.
Watch sonic boom squad
Frick no. USA #1 we cannot be defeated.
Won? No. By that point, they were shot industrially.
Let's assume a 100% success rate for their kwackasuckies...
they could have technically delayed the war maybe 6 months? A year?
And they would have gotten nuked all the same. So it changes nothing at all.
yes, it's a fact that every kamikaze at Pearl Harbor missed the carriers, and that directly led to Japan losing the war.
yes. that's why we had to nuke them. they would not stop, and their women and children would take to the fight after in the final wave by becoming kamikaze attackers too. they'd fly right over the pacific to strike our cities on te coast
>WAR BAD
>JAPAN BAD
>KAMIKAZE GOOD
trash movie
The US still hasn't apologised for using nuclear weapons against Japan. It deliberately targetted civilians, a horrendous war crime.
Next time, don't lose, Yokozuki.
The Japs targeted civilians to the tune of 18 million dead. Cry moar you homosexual.
Japanese had no problems committing war crimes themselves.
For example, they would use the red cross markings on ships carrying ammo, yet their massive barges carrying prisoners as human cattle would be left unmarked, leading to several incidents of PoW ships being sunk by their own guys.
People were crushed, starved and dehydrated in those ships, there was no natural light, no airflow, they were forced in there and the latch was shut.
the civilians deserved it
>nuclear weapons
>area still habitable
Are we sure America didn't just what the IDF did to Gaza?
Nukes are definitely real, and not rehearsed conventionals laced with radioactive materials, that was just for the test footage, no idea what you're talking about.
"There are no innocent civilians, only innocent bystanders."
>apologising to your servants
jej
Why is killing a hundred thousand people with a nuclear bomb worse than killing a hundred thousand people with conventional bombs? There's nothing uniquely horrible about the nuclear bombings, Japanese cities were already being bombed and civilians were already dying in large numbers.
because it just is ok?
The Japs were moronic.
>in over their heads stuck in the China quagmire
>getting BTFO by the Soviets even before they engaged total war mode
>decide they might as well piss off the Western powers and attack them too
absolutely not lmao. even without nukes, USA was out-manufacturing Japan by a significant margin. there was realistically no way for Japan to keep up.
Americans fight without honour. Without those nukes Japan would have brought them to their knees.
Nah
Japan invasion was planned for the next month basically
It would have been horrible for both japanese and american in terms of lost tho
Japan wouldn't be the same today
>Without those nukes Japan
...would have had their cities turned into ash and rubble with normal bombs
Soviets were being held back by america from entering, they were going to invade from the north while US hit the south. Japs would have lost most of their population if Hirohito had it his way before the nukes. He was ready to throw everyone into the meatgrinder.
Soviets weren't going to be invading shit considering they lost most of their amphibious assault craft in one single battle
Just create a solid bridge of dead Soviet troops from the coast of Russia to Japan, and roll the tanks across.
The nuclear bombs weren't even a consideration in the decision to surrender. The IJN had been destroyed or forced to port for lack of fuel and that summer literally the 40 (FORTY) largest cities bar Edo had been destroyed in nights of single firebombing comparable or worse than the atomic bombings. The IJA had no real air defences to stop these bombings, and their economy wasn't like Germany's that had almost a century of industrialization building multiple redundancies for every level and loop of supply chains. Submarine warfare had obliterated their merchant marine and mining endangered transport in between the islands. Their last gambit was forcing the Allies to take as many casualties as possible, but because of the Casablanca Conference's call for unconditional surrender (undesirable because it could put the position of the Emperor at risk) they were hoping for the USSR to mediate a peace agreement. When Stalin declared war they had to face the music.
I was shitposting, but I enjoyed the rundown.
No problem, I just like talking about how badly the Japanese had their buttholes blown out in WW2
homosexual chink
They were already leveling tokyo to the ground with regular bombs, cope and seethe
yeah cause they would have flown straight into our nukes that weren't even ready yet.
I still don't understand how Japan went from le kamikaze samurai IMPERIAL NAVY yamato for the emporer shit to modern day Japan.
A war happened, maybe you heard about it
>to modern day Japan.
By Unconditional surrender to the US meaning they no longer have their autocracy. The US spent billions rebuilding Japan as they felt a moral obligation to do so, then the Korean war broke out in the 50s. The closest ally in the region for the US was Japan, so the US had Japan start manufacturing goods for the war and that was a huge boost to the Jap economy. Early on they did what all young nations do and steal intellectual property, infringe on copyrights etc. Then eventually branched out into their own products, companies like Honda and Sony eventually making their mark with products better than anywhere else in the world.
They're still the same, except they kill themselves working 20 hours shifts for their corporation.
frick no. The Kamikaze were an act of last ditch desperation by General Tojo. The Japanese were outmanned, and outgunned 5:1 by the USA. it got to the point where they were demanding women and children fight and die for Japan. The nukes were the last bit of "back the frick off" until they got the goddamn point, because Eisenhower and Patton were preparing to march onto Japanese soil and start physically removing members of the military and Parliament.
Godzilla minus one sucks and has Pacific Rim 2 tier sped up weightless effects
>every kamikaze pilot does their job
>Have no pilots left to defend your cities
The Japanese pilot training programs were laughably slow and inefficient and their pilots simply died faster then they could ever be trained, even without kamikaze tactics
>US ignored Japanese request for unconditional surrender just so it could test its new toy to scare the Russians
Really despicable. You yanks deserve what's coming.
Japan didn’t really have the industry to beat the US and it was massively overstretched, bogged down in China and many of its forces in South East Asia being cut off from supplies.
They were doomed from the start.
Replace 1900s with 2000s and swap US for China and Japan for US. This is the futuree.
No because we would just have had all our pilots do their job too.
WW2 was orchestrated by the US to destabilise Europe and secure the US place as a global superpower. It worked.
its almost like its a bad role
They wouldn't have won, but it would had been very painful for the US.
In fact, the most efficient Japan ever got were the Kamikaze, it was very effective against the US Fleet.
So, if every Kamikaze did their job, yes, the US could had loose their fleets.
But thats just mean the war would had been longer.
The point of the film was literally showing that the sort of pointless deaths like kamikaze was meaningless.